EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 60, Issue 13 This issue's topics: Midi File Transfer (11 messages) MIDI-L (6 messages) Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L (8 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 15:28:16 -0700 From: Ed Castaneda Subject: Midi File Transfer Hello: I am having trouble getting midi files that I have transfered from an FTP site to run. I have tried to transfer them in ascii and binary form and have had no luck. Can anyone give me a clue as I don't have one. Also I have an old Casio mt 640 midi keyboard and i was wondering tif there e is a program somewhere that works like the "Miracle"tutorial s ??? I am just an amatuer and would appreciate any help. Thanks Ed C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 16:23:55 -0800 From: Doug Wellington Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer From: Ed Castaneda >I am having trouble getting midi files that I have transfered from an FTP site > to run. I have tried to transfer them in ascii and binary form and have had > no luck. Can anyone give me a clue as I don't have one. What are you using to play them? And what kind of computer are you using and what kind of sound generator are you using? >Also I have an old Casio mt 640 midi keyboard and i was wondering if there >is a program somewhere that works like the "Miracle" tutorials ??? Again, what kind of computer do you have? If you have a DOS computer and have or are willing to buy a MIDI interface, there is a program called "Piano Works" that will help you learn how to play keys. Piano Works is a much more in-depth program than the Miracle, but I understand that the Miracle will help you play some popular songs faster than Piano Works will. Piano Works covers a lot of theory and gives you lots of exercises. And it costs a lot less than the Miracle, too. -Doug Music Supply and Repair Service 2710 N. Paseo Tierra Verde Tucson, AZ 85749 USA (602) 760-0425 Email doug@arizona.edu if you want pricing... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 23:29:57 -0500 From: THE DIGITAL WITCHDOCTOR Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer When you download them from the ftp site, make sure you get them in binary format. Then, when you pull them from your system to the pc, also use the binary format. On university systems running the ubiquitous (and outmoded) kermit, this can be done by typing "set file type binary" at your kermit prompt (on the university server). Let me know if this helps...I had the same problem a few years ago. Phil SPS5251@Siena.bitnet] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 1994 09:57:18 -0500 From: Thom Cox Subject: >I am having trouble getting midi files that I have transfered from an FTP site > to run. I have tried to transfer them in ascii and binary form and have had > no luck. Can anyone give me a clue as I don't have one. Thanks Ed C Ed, very often these files will be in compressed format and you may need to install a utility to decompress them such as Compact Pro or StuffIt for the Mac. Thom Cox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 15:44:58 -0500 From: Alan Greenberg Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer I've had success in downloading using kermit and binary, but that isn't really the problem. When I get the xxx.Z file on my PC, what program do I use to decompress it? PKZIP doesn't recognize the format. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 08:50:13 -0500 From: Jeff Harrington Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer > > I've had success in downloading using kermit and binary, but that isn't > really the problem. When I get the xxx.Z file on my PC, what program do I > use to decompress it? PKZIP doesn't recognize the format. > You could use "uncompress" for the PC, but I'd rather uncompress it at your unix connect point. .Z files are unix compressed. Jeff Harrington idealord@dorsai.dorsai.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 13:53:38 GMT From: Rikhardur H Fridriksson Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer >I've had success in downloading using kermit and binary, but that isn't >really the problem. When I get the xxx.Z file on my PC, what program >do I use to decompress it? PKZIP doesn't recognize the format. xxx.Z is Unix compression format. I don't know of any PC, Mac etc. program that can handle this, but it's built into the Unix operating system. All you have to do is to go to "shell" mode and say "uncompress " or "uncompress .Z" and the file will decompress. Rikhardur H. Fridriksson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 09:58:10 EST From: Bill Fox Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer > I've had success in downloading using kermit and binary, but that isn't > really the problem. When I get the xxx.Z file on my PC, what program do I > use to decompress it? PKZIP doesn't recognize the format. I seem to recall that on one ftp site (I forget which one), it will automatically uncompress if you specify the filename WITHOUT its .Z extension. That way, if you're downloading directly to a PC that doesn't have the UNIX uncompress command, you can get the uncompressed file straight from the ftp site. Try it and let us know if that helps you out on the ftp site you're using. Bill Fox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 08:09:24 -0800 From: Richard Clingman Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer > > >I've had success in downloading using kermit and binary, but that isn't > >really the problem. When I get the xxx.Z file on my PC, what program > >do I use to decompress it? PKZIP doesn't recognize the format. I have had this same problem (I'm using a mac) and from what I can piece together I think the file extension for a PKZIP format file "should" be .zip not .z or .Z My experience came as a result of downloading a file with a .Z suffix and trying to use a program that I have on the mac called ZipIt. ZipIt encodes/decodes files that are are PKZIP compatible. ZipIt wouldn't work on the file with the .Z suffix. I knew I must be missing something! I downloaded an application (again for the mac) called MacGzip. This application is for files that have been compressed using the UNIX "compress" or "gzip" command. These types of files "should" have a suffix of .z or .Z MacGzip decompressed the file with NO problem. While I am certainly no expert on this, apparently PKZIP and GZIP appear to be different incompatible variants of compression. > > xxx.Z is Unix compression format. I don't know of any PC, Mac etc. > program that can handle this, but it's built into the Unix operating > system. All you have to do is to go to "shell" mode and say "uncompress > " or "uncompress .Z" and the file > will decompress. > I would bet that if mac versions of these exists, certainly PC versions MUST be out there. Let's hear from you PC users... Richard -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Clingman,Sr.Training Developer | I want to put a small video in a ADP Dealer Services; Portland, Oregon | window here in my signature!!! (503) 294-4200 ext. 2419 | OK, I'll settle for a small audio email: richard@plaza.ds.adp.com | playback!!! OK, I'll settle fo ____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 15:14:43 -0700 From: john krikawa Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer Can't you just use FireWire? Doesn't that pre-configure, auto-deal-with senile transfer logic? sorry, couldn't help it......a voice deep inside, said 'WASTE SOME BANDWIDTH, DO IT, NOW', I wrestled with it, then succumbed. :( _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 17:08:28 +0000 From: "Richard W.E. Furse" Subject: Re: Midi File Transfer In article <9401101609.AA29524@outland> richard@PLAZA.DS.ADP.COM writes: > MacGzip decompressed the file with NO problem. > I would bet that if mac versions of these exists, certainly > PC versions MUST be out there. > > Let's hear from you PC users... Surprisingly enough it's called GZIP.EXE and it's by GNU. Find it on any good FTP site near you... Basic PC kit for just about every file conversion nec. for InterNet: PKUNZIP, GZIP, UUENCODE, UUDECODE, TAR. Any other suggestions anyone? -- Richard Furse (RichardFurse@muse.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:22:09 GMT From: JOEL STERN Subject: MIDI-L For what it's worth, I like Arne Claasen's idea of a MIDI-L listserve. I guess the usual cautions about copyright matters would be in order, but that aside, it might be a nice addition to the online midi community. "World Jam" sounds a bit ambitious, and idealistic to me. The originator's selection criteria also sound mildly manipulative. MIDI-L would be more practical and more democratic. Joel Stern stern@mail.loc.gov j.stern11@genie.geis.com tel:301-588-8061 fax:301-585-7642 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 10:02:41 -0500 From: DEMOLITION MAN Subject: Re: MIDI-L I like the Idea too, and agree with the idea that world jam is slightly idealistic. The question is...can we actually find someone willing to deal with the headache of starting one at their site. As an aside, how can you get midi over email...? Phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 13:18:34 -0600 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: MIDI-L > For what it's worth, I like Arne Claasen's idea of a MIDI-L > listserve. I guess the usual cautions about copyright matters > would be in order, but that aside, it might be a nice addition to > the online midi community. "World Jam" sounds a bit ambitious, > and idealistic to me. The originator's selection criteria also > sound mildly manipulative. MIDI-L would be more practical and > more democratic. I would see the purpose of Midi-l less as a cooperative jam session, than a place to get feedback and inspiration. Sort of the writers lists. Of course it is a lot easier to get a short story on the screen and read it than it is to get a midi file get it home (in my case) load it up and assign patches and then create feedback. So the question would be how willing people would be to do this process after the initial fun wears off. Also, i've heard Nick and John mention that sending midi files was fairly useless for them. I know uuencode and uudecode are annoying, but were your problems technical or were those files just not all that useful for your purpose, since they were naked midi files, still open to all the variation of the individuals equipment? I'm not trying to shoot the idea out, but just thought i'd express some of my doubts for discussion, before we set anything up. -- Arne F. Claassen |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4 | E pluribus Moo" | Mac Centris 650 | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 11:28:00 PST From: "Rossi, John" Subject: Re: MIDI-L > As an aside, how can you get midi over email...? You can use UUENCODE to get any binary file into ASCII format for transmission. It is then UUDECODEd at the other end. However, as was pointed out previously, when Nick and I tried this in the preliminary stages of preparation for the Bandwidth sessions, we discovered the near uselessness of the procedure. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 16:45:03 -0500 From: DEMOLITION MAN Subject: Re: MIDI-L If the problem is a technical one (i.e. unencode etc actually screws up the data), we might as well just set up another ftp someplace where we could send and pull down ideas from. Does anyone actually have a site where the could actually set up another listserver? I know mine actually has some objection to it. phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 17:56:00 PST From: "Rossi, John" Subject: Re: MIDI-L > If the problem is a technical one (i.e. unencode etc actually screws up the > data), we might as well just set up another ftp someplace where we could > send and pull down ideas from. I'm not sure what this is referencing. Nick and I did not have a technical problem with uuencoding and uudecoding MIDI files. The problem was that after Nick received my MIDI files, he was unable to really do anything with them because all they contained was note on and off information. Although I sent an additional text file describing the sounds which were to be attached to the notes in each track, he was basically unable to recreate what I was actually using. Any time you deal with music which depends on timbral relationships you can not really depend on a MIDI file to convey sufficient information. If you are farmiliar with Bandwidth you will note that my piece MOTPA is probably the most conventionally instrumented on the entire CD. If we were having trouble communicating that rather simplistic piece, imagine how difficult something like Oxygen Feed would have been. This shared MIDI file concept will work only if all the participants have the same equipment. On the other hand, to some extent this kind of thing might work in General MIDI, however, I fear that the end product wouldn't be worth listening to. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 23:50:33 -0500 From: "Joseph D. McMahon" Subject: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L > By the way, is it possible to send midi-files to each other in this list ? It's possible, but lots of people (especially me, the list-owner) will get really cranky if you do. Please try to get your own mailing list going for this purpose. Thanks. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:22:49 EST From: JOHN ALBERT PINION Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L >>> By the way, is it possible to send midi-files to each other in this list ? It's possible, but lots of people (especially me, the list-owner) will get really cranky if you do. Please try to get your own mailing list going for this purpose. Thanks. <<< I have been tempted several times to send midi files to the list for one reason or another, but hesitated because I had never seen anyone doing it. However, having at one time subscribed to EAT-L, where recipies and food preparation ideas were bounced about, and one could clip and save what one was interested in, I would love to see this concept applied to midi files - I would assume one could develop quite a collection, and I know I could contribute my share, like the cute '30' (style?) number I snaked this week from the HBO movie _Curly Sue_ (ah, what luscious chords). Let me know if I am missing something. John A. Pinion ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 00:47:52 -0500 From: "Joseph D. McMahon" Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L JOHN ALBERT PINION writes: > ... and one could clip and save > what one was interested in, I would love to see this concept applied > to midi files - I would assume one could develop quite a collection, > and I know I could contribute my share, like the cute '30' (style?) > number I snaked this week from the HBO movie _Curly Sue_ > (ah, what luscious chords). > It *is* a good idea, but it would be better on something like a publicly-accessible FTP site, or gopher site. Perhaps something could be set up with Mosaic in the future? Anyway, it would be nice to do, but it's not really within the scope of this list. We have quite a bit of traffic as it is, and I'm not prepared to even consider running a fourth list. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 12:02:49 -0600 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L > However, having at one time subscribed to EAT-L, where recipies and > food preparation ideas were bounced about, and one could clip and save > what one was interested in, I would love to see this concept applied > to midi files - I would assume one could develop quite a collection, > and I know I could contribute my share, like the cute '30' (style?) > number I snaked this week from the HBO movie _Curly Sue_ > (ah, what luscious chords). How difficult are the ornate chants to conjure of a listserv group and, Joe, what kind of a pain is managing a group? I bring this up, since i like the midi-file exchange to bouce around ideas, like recipes, but i agree that i would not want my emusic bandwidth sacrifice, i.e. it would call for the creation of something like midi-l or something. That is of course if there is interest. Then again, does this pretty much duplicate the desires of world-jam? -- Arne F. Claassen |"In cows we trust | EPS Classic * D4 | E pluribus Moo" | Mac Centris 650 | | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 19:15:57 +0000 From: "Richard W.E. Furse" Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L In article <00979233.1C15FEE0.7814@lp.musc.edu> PINIONJA@MUSC.BITNET writes: > >>> By the way, is it possible to send midi-files to each other in this list ? [...] > Let me know if I am missing something. > > John A. Pinion > It is worth mentioning that some of us have systems that collect all postings to this group - and pay phone phonebills for the privilege. And I for one am not particularly interested in midi-file collections... -- Richard Furse (RichardFurse@muse.demon.co.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 17:38:57 -0500 From: "Joseph D. McMahon" Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L Arne Claassen ISE writes: > > How difficult are the ornate chants to conjure of a listserv group Not very. It's mostly finding someone who's willing to sponsor one. > Joe, what kind of a pain is managing a group? Worse than a light sunburn, not as bad as a root canal. :-) To give you an idea, I get, on average, 120+ mail items a day. This includes all of the list traffic, "subscribed" messages, "unsubscribed" messages, "how do I subscribe" messages, "take me off this list" messages, and all of the bounces. I delete a lot of it, but I have to read all of the bounces and decide whether or not the problem is temporary or not, and hand-unsubscribe people as required. As list-owner, it's also my job to read the correspondence on the list and provide a gentle prod once in a while to keep things civil and on-track (when possible, piano lessons notwithstanding). I would recommend that your list be fully moderated if you set one up. This would allow you to filter out everything but MIDI files and their descriptions from the list. > Then again, does this pretty much > duplicate the desires of world-jam? I would imagine that the world-jam folks would find this useful. --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 13:59:19 +0000 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L >Let me know if I am missing something. Well... I imagine that anyone interested in cooking has use for recipes. However, I have no use for MIDI files. Nick Rothwell | cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance | cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 01:48:04 EST From: JOHN ALBERT PINION Subject: Re: Sending MIDI files to EMUSIC-L >Well... I imagine that anyone interested in cooking has use for recipes. >However, I have no use for MIDI files. I know that this list is n that, that's why I (and I'm sure others) have not sent midi files (which are larger than simple ascii messages but shorter than sound files or full-motion video) to the EMUSIC-L list, even though it would seem to fall within the list topic. (Granted midi files may not be of interest, use or utility to everyone on the list, but very few postings to any list can be that. I ignore 80% of the e-mail I get; of course, I don't pay per character.) I guess the operative question is whether or not there is a server out there willing to accept the burden of disk space necessary to have such a list. With hard drives of hundreds of meg and even a gig or more common on _home_ machines these days, I would expect to see such lists popping up eventually. If anyone knows of any currently in operation, please let me (us) know. To the music "conisseuers" out there, let me confess that I am no Mozart (though in the kitchen, I would certainly hide any recipes or measuring devices (gag me with a tsp) lest I be caught using one or the other, in which case I would probably be so ashamed I would be forced to throw out the meal. ;^) John Pinion Cheers! ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************