EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 61, Issue 02 This issue's topics: Partch Instrument Blueprints? (10 messages) Partch Instruments Blueprints Partch Instruments Info Partch tunings for Yamaha SY/TG77's (and others?) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 10:38:59 CST From: HARRY HAECKER Subject: Partch Instrument Blueprints? I am interested in seeing blueprints for any instruments built by Harry Partch. Does such a book exist? I have read his book on scalar systems, but aside from some pictures of a few of his instruments, there are no diagrams. In lieu of that, the location of samples (MSDS or K2000 compatible) from these unique instruments would be great! Harry Haecker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 12:00:16 -0500 From: William Matthews Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? Harry Haecker writes: > > I am interested in seeing blueprints for any instruments > built by Harry Partch. Does such a book exist? I have > read his book on scalar systems, but aside from some pictures > of a few of his instruments, there are no diagrams. > > In lieu of that, the location of samples (MSDS or K2000 compatible) from > these unique instruments would be great! > What a wonderful idea! HOWEVER, it's the tuning of the instruments which distinguishes Partch's magical contribution to American music from all the others. So any sample archive will have to have a copy-protect scheme to prevent the sounds from being reproduced in equal temperment. Hmmm. There are several available recordings of some of Partch's pieces, from which one could extract samples. Bill M. wmatthew@abacus.bates.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 11:56:13 CST From: HARRY HAECKER Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? William Matthews writes: >...it's the tuning of the instruments which distinguishes Partch's...music from all the others. Yes, as a matter of fact, I worked out Partch's system of tuning for the Yamaha TG/SY77; I don't know if this has been done before, but would certainly be willing to ULoad it to this site, if anyone showed interest in it.Since it's for a specific synthesizer it sould only be useful for a limited crowd on this list, unless there's a Yamaha subdirectory. (I haven't yet explored this site's directory tree. >So any sample site will have to have a copy-protect scheme to prevent the sounds from being reproduced in equal temperment. I didn't realize that scales could be copyrighted!Seems a little like trying to copyright hues and values of colors. >There are several available recordings of some of Partch's pieces, from which >one could extract samples. Good idea! I do have "The Bewitched" (Composers Recordings, Inc."CRI| CD 7001) and an optical cord that could go directly to my sampler, but trying to iso- late the appropriate tones across the keymap (at least 4 for a three octave range, for each instrument) is not easy...I was considering that before sending my initial missive. Now here's where the copyright problem comes into play. I'd rather build my own versions of the instruments (in my *copious* spare time ;-) )than give CRI, the University of Illinois Musical Ensemble, and whoever else is out there, money for using sound bytes in pieces that most likely won't make $$$$, but might... Harry Haecker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 14:25:55 -0500 From: William Matthews Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? Harry Haecker writes: > > Yes, as a matter of fact, I worked out Partch's system of tuning for the > Yamaha TG/SY77; I don't know if this has been done before, but would certainly > be willing to ULoad it to this site, if anyone showed interest in it.Since > it's for a specific synthesizer it sould only be useful for a limited crowd > on this list, unless there's a Yamaha subdirectory. (I haven't yet explored > this site's directory tree. I, for one, would love to have a copy, and presume it could readily be reproduced on a dx7ii, or other Yamaha instruments. For those who haven't come to know Partch's unique work, he systematically developed an orchestra of mostly percussion instruments based on a 43-tone subdivision of the octave. > > >So any sample site will have to have a copy-protect scheme to prevent the > sounds from being reproduced in equal temperment. > > I didn't realize that scales could be copyrighted!Seems a little like > trying to copyright hues and values of colors. > It was a joke, made half in jest. Partch did what he did with tunings because he so very crabbily wished to maintain his stance *apart* from the rest of the musical world. How much respect do we owe his quasi-religious vision? I've seen the instruments themselves, which are maintained by a group in California. They are made from pieces of this and chunks of that unidentified wood with knots and branches used as part of the form of the instrument; in other words, no blueprint would suffice to get you even close to the sounds of the originals. Please send me your tuning data through private e-mail, if an upload to this list is difficult or inappropriate. Bill Matthews wmatthew@abacus.bates.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 21:36:00 PST From: Loren Nerell Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? ------------------------------TEXT-OF-YOUR-MAIL-------------------------------- > I've seen the instruments themselves, which are maintained by a group in > California. They are made from pieces of this and chunks of that > unidentified wood with knots and branches used as part of the form of the > instrument; in other words, no blueprint would suffice to get you even > close to the sounds of the originals. I was apart of that group back in the early 1980's when Danlee Michell (Harry's assistant) was teaching at San Diego State. Bill is right about some of the instruments,they were made from various cast off items. A good example of this is the 'Spoils of War' which was made literaly from artilery shells and other military devices left over from world war II. Many of his instruments though could be copied with little trouble with out blueprints. If you have read his book "Genesis of A Music" then you know the most important part of his instruments - his tuning system. Most of his instruments were adapted from conventional instruments just by changing the tuning of the instrument. He changed the tuning of the Chromelodeons by filling the reeds down until they reached the right pitch. Some of his more exotic instruments could be made if you can find the right materials. The'Cloud Champer Bowls' were made from large pyrex bottles. They were cut to the right size with band saws. Danlee told me it was very mch a hit or miss thing tring to tune one of these. When I was involved with the group we made a new version of the instrument called the 'boo' because the orginal had deteriated so much. It orignally was made from ba mboo (hense the Name) and would split after playing it for a while. The new one was made from pvc pipe and sounded just as god as the original. In retrospect the closestthing that you are going to find to actual blueprints is Harry's book. It has all of the instruments with all the tunings used for each one. The only other alternative is to join the group, which I heard is now based in New York city. >Please send me your tuning data through private e-mail, if an upload to > this list is difficult or inappropriate. Sounds great, does it come with a color coded ratio chart for the keyboard like Harry use to use? Loren Nerell ESUTZS3@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 08:28:55 -0500 From: "Jon Crystal (Jon Crystal)" Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? Yes, as a matter of fact, I worked out Partch's system of tuning for the >Yamaha TG/SY77; I don't know if this has been done before, but would certainly >be willing to ULoad it to this site, if anyone showed interest in it. > >Harry Haecker Harry: Please do! There are quite a few of us with 77's who'd be interested. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 23:28:58 -0600 From: Matthew R Beron-1 Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? I know there is a film 16mm type from the late 60's or early 70's that shows Partch demonstrating his instruments in an apartment/ studio in Chicago. Harry talks about 4 or 5 instruments why he built it and then plays it . This is no where close to blueprints but might give you more of an idea of his instruments from that era. The film is in Uof Minnesota's circulating film library University Film and Video (612) 627-4270 voice they UFV are on the Net now and the film data base and all lists and discriptions about the films can be accessed. Partch's instruments that are in this film are made from found objects military surplus , and science lab discards Harry does not use these objects as is but transforms them to suit is purposes. The Film title has Harry Partch in the title,the complete title I cannot remember. -=-=-===--==--=-=-==-==-=-=-=-==-==-=-====--==-=-=----====----==-=-=-=-=-= ===-=--=--=----=-- Matt Beron beron001@maroon.tc.umn.edu |-=-=-====- =-===-=-=-===-==-=-==-==-==-==-=-==-=-==-=-=-==-==-==-==-==-=-=|--==--==-= " No work is ever finished, it is abandoned." Joseph Conrad On Sat, 5 Feb 1994, HARRY HAECKER wrote: > I am interested in seeing blueprints for any instruments > built by Harry Partch. Does such a book exist? I have > read his book on scalar systems, but aside from some pictures > of a few of his instruments, there are no diagrams. > > In lieu of that, the location of samples (MSDS or K2000 compatible) from > these unique instruments would be great! > > Harry Haecker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 06:48:24 CST From: HARRY HAECKER Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? It's beginning to sound like I should just be innovative...make my own bell tree, "Spoils of War" (were the shells actually tuned to his ratios???), or any other collection of things that can sound. Too many projects going on right now as it is; but with a sampler at my disposal, I'm itchingto get my "hands dirty" as soon as possible. Does UMN support interlibrary loans of videos? One of these days computers will be so fast, and RAM so cheap UMN would be able to send me an entire movie over some Net in a .MPG file. "I have a dream..." Harry Haecker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 10:17:19 -0600 From: hinkle-turner elizabeth Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? Hi Folks! The film about Partch that Matthew refers to is called: "The Dreamer That Remains" It is wonderful to watch. It is available for rent (we rented it for $70.00!) from Kent State University also. It is unfortunately not available on video, only on 16 mm film. Elizabeth Hinkle-Turner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 13:58:02 -0600 From: Matthew R Beron-1 Subject: Re: Partch Instrument Blueprints? U of Minnesota's film and video library is a rental library and any one in the continental USA can rent the media. It is not very cheap however! the title of the 16mm movie is "Music Studio:Harry Partch" the media #is 5f0627-a it is about 20minutes long run time. the rental price is $14.65 plus shipping I have ufv's catalog on my desk . good luck. -=-=-===--==--=-=-==-==-=-=-=-==-==-=-====--==-=-=----====----==-=-=-=-=-= ===-=--=--=----=-- Matt Beron beron001@maroon.tc.umn.edu |-=-=-====- =-===-=-=-===-==-=-==-==-==-==-=-==-=-==-=-=-==-==-==-==-==-=-=|--==--==-= " No work is ever finished, it is abandoned." Joseph Conrad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 06:24:44 -0500 From: Doug Walker Subject: Partch Instruments Blueprints Harry Haecker requests Partch instruments blueprints: Well, I do not know of blueprints of Partch instruments, but the Canadian sound sculptor and cinematographer, John Grayson at the beginning of the 70s published a book as part of a big educational project he ran near Victoria BC that contains a lot of scale drawings of many instruments vary much like those of Partch, with whom he "studied" and worked informally for several years. Many other interesting instruments of Grayson's invention are to be found there too. As well, there is a 50 page multimedia Requiem by yours truly composed for the collection of novel instruments included in the book. The title of the book is _Environments of Musical Sculpture that You Can Build_. The book is long out of print but is to be found in larger libraries, so you ought to be able to track it down via InterLibrary Loan. It is interesting and useful, despite the unfortunate title. ALSO, there is a very active new list on alternate tunings. All of the movers and shakers and lurkers in the field are on it. How to subscribe: To: listproc@varese.mills.edu Subject: Leave this line blank Message: subscribe tuning your name Hope this helps in your quest. Doug Walker ab704@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 06:57:27 -0500 From: Doug Walker Subject: Partch Instruments Info Re: Harry Haecker's interest in the Partch instruments : Two recent postings on the TUNING list might help The first, from John Chalmers, might be useful re the interest in getting blueprints and samples: ------- Dean Drummond, Harry Partch's assistant at UCSD in the 1960's (along with Jonathan Glasier) has the Partch orchestra and is performing the entire corpus one piece a year. His address is P.O. Box 443, Nyackm NY 10960. ------- The second, from Jeff Soo, gives a more general source: ------- For the Instrument Builders Digest: ============================================================= Send requests to battlec@cs.rpi.edu (DO NOT REPLY TO THE DIGEST!) With the subject header: SUBSCRIBE to subscribe UNSUBSCRIBE to unsubscribe POST subject to post about subject ARCHIVE get all the digests (text) ARCHIVE TAR get a tar.Z.uu of all digests ----------- Hope this helps in the quest for original sounds Doug Walker ab704@freenet.carleton.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 21:54:25 CST From: HARRY HAECKER Subject: Partch tunings for Yamaha SY/TG77's (and others?) The microtuning keymap editing layout of the SY/TG-77 seems a little unusual to me (although logical from a computing standpoint), in that there are 85 *or* 86 increments between each semi-tone. For each semi-tone, one can set the Coarse Tuning from C -2 to G 8 (I'm more used to the C 0 to G 10 convention), and the fine tuning from -43 to +42, or -42 to +42--- depending on the scale degree in question. C's, D#'s, F#'s, and A's get 86 increments, while the other eight notes in the chromatic scale get 85. There are always 1024 increments in an octave (ah, ha! finally, a power of 2!) The absolute number of these increments (inc.) in Yamaha's scheme is 10,795 (C 0 cannot be fine tuned below 0). There are an average of .853333... increments/cent, so I multiplied that number by the number of cents/interval to the 1st degree in the Partch tuning, added that to 4181 (D 1's absolute increment), and rounded off to the nearest whole number (unfortunately). This give you the Absolute Increment value for that note of the scale. It would have been best, of course (from a microtonality junkie's standpoint), if the SY77 could be tuned in increments of 1/100 of a cent instead of 1.17647 cents/inc.; but even so, I'd have to have been given SOME musical gift to be able to distinguish intervals this small! The following table shows the number of cents to the "tonic" for each of the 43 tones and the Absolute Increment Value. I hope you find this useful! I hope this is the appropriate forum for this...at least I'm not trying to sell anything ;*) I've received 6 letters on this in 36 hours, so I think I hit SOME kind of nerve!If anyone has suggestions, corrections, or insights, I'm open! I love hearing from people who can give supporting info on the topic of Mr. Partch, microtonality, and un- usual instruments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DEG. Key Map Cents to deg. 1 ratio to deg.1 Absolute Inc. # 1 D 1 0 1/1 4181 2 D# 21.51 81/80 4199 3 E 53.27 33/32 4226 4 F 84.47 21/20 4253 5 F# 111.73 16/15 4276 6 G 150.64 12/11 4310 7 G# 165.00 11/10 4322 8 A 182.40 10/9 4337 9 A# 203.91 9/8 4355 10 B 231.17 8/7 4378 11 C 2 266.87 7/6 4409 12 C# 294.13 32/27 4432 13 D 315.64 6/5 4450 14 D# 347.41 11/9 4477 15 E 386.31 5/4 4511 16 F 417.51 14/11 4537 17 F# 435.08 9/7 4552 18 G 470.78 21/16 4583 19 G# 498.04 4/3 4606 20 A 519.55 27/20 4624 21 A# 551.32 11/8 4651 22 B 582.51 7/5 4678 23 C 3 617.49 10/7 4708 24 C# 648.68 16/11 4734 25 D 680.45 40/27 4762 26 D# 701.96 3/2 4780 27 E 729.22 32/21 4803 28 F 764.92 14/9 4834 29 F# 782.49 11/7 4894 30 G 813.69 8/5 4875 31 G# 852.59 18/11 4908 32 A 884.36 5/3 4936 33 A# 905.86 27/16 4954 34 B 933.13 12/7 4977 35 C 4 968.83 7/4 5008 36 C# 996.09 16/9 5031 37 D 1017.60 9/5 5049 38 D# 1035.00 20/11 5064 39 E 1049.36 11/6 5076 40 F 1088.27 15/8 5110 41 F# 1115.53 40/21 5133 42 G 1146.73 64/33 5160 43 G# 1178.49 160/81 5187 44 A 1200.00 2/1 5205 ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************