EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 65, Issue 02 This issue's topics: Follow-up: Macintosh, MIDI vs. modem Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. (5 messages) Macintosh: MIDI vs. modem Midi files/software archives on the Internet MIDI-Mail: Mac -> PC, list-implementation question (2 messages) MOD SQUAD THEME pc vs mac (3 messages) PC-Mac ... Reconsider? (8 messages) Problem midi-recording matrix-6 aftertouch data The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) (8 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:54:00 PDT From: Ron Webster Subject: Follow-up: Macintosh, MIDI vs. modem I want to thank everyone who responded to my posting of June 12. The modem port problem has finally been solved. To wit: In my posting I stated that the fax and communication software were irrelevant because I had restarted the computer with the fax software removed, and I had tried several different comm programs in an effort to test access to the modem port (by issuing a simple AT&V command). Ultimately, however, everyone's suspicion (including my initial hypothesis) was confirmed--the fax system file (to my knowledge, all fax software includes at least an estension, and some also include a control panel) was the culprit. Even though I had tried re-booting with the fax software removed, and even tried booting from the IIsi's System Tools floppy (or whatever the disk is called in the System 6.0.7 software disks that came with the IIsi), these were not "cold" restarts. As it turns out, cold vs. warm restarts can be considerably different. My solution came inadvertently after I sent an inquiry (re a different matter) to a friend, who responded, in part, with the following: > there may be a slight misconception about PRAM: not all values > are reset during a warm start (RESTART) and driver software of > some peripherals (such as fax and MIDI) don't always do the > right thing, or 'things right' (and then there the bugs which > Apple doesn't like to talk about). So a 'cold start' (the machine > was powered off at least several minutes -- duration differs > for different Macs) actually can result in a different content > in the RAM-copy of the PRAM memory used during software execution. The fax INIT initially loaded disabled--but before being disabled, it communicated with the modem port and "occupied" it. Warm restarting did not clear the "residue" of the INIT, so the port remained busy, even when the fax software was removed from the machine (system file and all). I verified this by doing a cold restart with the fax INIT removed from the System Folder--voila! The modem port was now free. Having isolated the problem, I altered the position of the fax INIT in the sequence of INIT and CDEV loads. Placing the fax INIT last resulted in it loading enabled. The modem port was free, and the fax software was functional. Ron Webster (ijw6rhw@mvs.oac.ucla.edu) ============= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 16:29:57 +0100 From: "Steven D. Bramson" Subject: Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. A colleague of mine currently has Hardware: Mac II ci 8/80 with 3 nubus slots. One slot has a digidesign Audiomedia II card in it Midi Time Piece II interface on modem o/p A 1 GB external HD A Syquest 88 MB drive Software: System 7.1. Cubase Audio (v2 waiting to be installed, apparently will just about run on 8MB ram but would prefer 12) Galaxy Editor/Librarian Finale 3 Word 4 Excel 3 Mathematica II Various other progs. He is considering either a RAM upgrade, a Quadra or a Power Mac. My personal view is that it is an unfortunate time to upgrade since: 1. A RAM upgrade on the IIci would use older 30 pin SIMMs which could not be used on a Quadra/PowerMac 2. The Quadra is about to disappear in favour of the PowerMac. Stocks are quite low so the price remains relatively high. 3. The PowerMac represents a more future proof solution and better performance and price/performance than a Quadra, but my colleagues software/hardware is unproven on this platform. Also the PowerMac is crying out for native PowerPC chipset software versions rather than struggling along under the emulator. I would be tempted to wait struggle along with the current setup and buy a PowerMac in 6-12 momths time. Any opinions or suggestions would be welcome, paticularly if you have personal experience with the Power Mac. Steven D Bramson Data Management Group JET Joint Undertaking Abingdon Oxfordshire OX14 3EA United Kingdom E-mail sdb@jet.uk Voice 0235 465 013 Fax 0235 465 399 ------------------------------------------------------------------ JET is Europe's fusion research project Disclaimer: Any views expressed are mine and do not represent those of JET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 13:42:19 -0500 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. > I would be tempted to wait struggle along with the current setup and buy a > PowerMac in 6-12 momths time. Any opinions or suggestions would be > welcome, paticularly if you have personal experience with the Power Mac. Steve, I'd say you are in a bit of an annoying spot and waiting until the Powermacs are more proven and cheaper is probably the best idea. I'm going to wait at least until next year before upgrading my Centris. -- Arne F. Claassen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine Inch Nails on MTV Unplugged - "The whole band is onstage. Chris is behind the drums and a tape deck not plugged in, no sound. Everybody's waiting to play. He hits it again. Nothing. I yell at him. He hits it again. Nothing. Then we smash our gear and walk offstage!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 13:00:35 -0700 From: ** Bouncer ** Subject: Re: Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. >> I would be tempted to wait struggle along with the current setup and buy a >> PowerMac in 6-12 momths time. Any opinions or suggestions would be >> welcome, paticularly if you have personal experience with the Power Mac. > >Steve, > I'd say you are in a bit of an annoying spot and waiting until the >Powermacs are more proven and cheaper is probably the best idea. I'm going to >wait at least until next year before upgrading my Centris. I'd tend to agree, _especially_ if the primary software you intend on using is not yet available for native PowerMac. I remember how many headaches people had running their MIDI applications on Powerbooks (140/170) when those first came out. And those machines were still running native 680x0 software. It wasn't until nearly a year later before Performer/Opcode started offering 'powerbook-friendly' versions of the software. Best bet, contact the company who supports your music software/hardware (Digidesign, Opcode, etc.) and see if they can give you an estimate on when native P-mac code will be available, and be sure and ask about compatibility issues with current versions of digital I/O (AudioMedia, etc.) when installed in PowerMacs, etc. For example, I probably won't be willing/needing to upgrade to PowerPC until PowerMac versions of my software (Performer and/or Finale?) are actually _shipping_ (not merely announced). The bonus feature to this is that by then, the first generation of PowerMac's will still be available but will likely have a lower list-price, plus the used market will be much larger by then with people upgrading to the latest 6x0 chip themselves. -- Billyb (** Bouncer **) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 00:05:49 +0100 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. >I would be tempted to wait struggle along with the current setup Struggle, with that setup? Why is he struggling? (Honest question; I'm sitting here with three slow, obsolete Macs, none of which I'm in any hurry to replace any time soon.) Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 08:50:32 -0500 From: Charles Shriner Subject: Re: Mac Upgrade - suggestions please. Accelerate your IIci w/a 68040 and get some more RAM. I don't know about you but I'm not about to potty train the Power PC's until Opcode, Digdesign, Coda all have a proven track record w/ Power PC native software. ccps@phantom.com composition, sound design & production ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 01:32:00 PDT From: Ron Webster Subject: Macintosh: MIDI vs. modem On the face of it, this inquiry might seem more appropriate for the comp.sys.mac.comm or comp.sys.mac.hardware Usenet newsgroups. But upon reflection, this discussion group may be more promising--on the one hand, the subscribers, ipso facto, are modem and communications software users, and on the other, are likely to be familiar with the software products that may underlie my specific problem. I'm having a problem installing a fax modem. Here are the specs: Mac: Mac IIsi, 5 MB RAM, System 6.0.7 Special hardware: sound card (with RCA connectors, making it possible to sample sounds from a CD player), Radius Pivot grey-scale display Modem: Practical Peripherals PM14400FXMT MiniTower fax modem (fax and communication software irrelevant) I have very little hands-on experience with the IIsi, but it is my understanding that the IIsi has a built-in slot for an 8-bit video card (which I assume is occupied by the Radius display card). And I know that the IIsi can have either a NuBus slot or a PDS slot (but not both)--I don't know which this particular IIsi has, but I assume it has a NuBus slot, which is occupied by the sound card (although I suppose there might be PDS-mounting sound cards). If I turn background printing off, I can get the modem to work off of the printer port, but I cannot access it via the modem port. I've been using VersaTerm 4.0 to try sending commands to the modem, according to which the modem port is being used by another application. The IIsi in question is used as part of a MIDI setup, but I couldn't find anything that might account for the modem port being occupied. (As most of the Mac users among you know, some MIDI environments have extensions that address the designated serial port during boot-up and can compete with communications software for access to a serial port.) My first suspicion was that some of the MIDI-related software was "claiming" the modem port--but I can't figure out what it could be. The only MIDI-related applications are Encore, Beyond, and X-OR. I'm not familiar with the latter two--if anyone out there has any info about Beyond and X-OR, particularly how these might affect a modem's access to the modem port, I'd appreciate it. I disabled all INITs and CDEVs, but to no avail. I then physically removed all INITs and CDEVs, again to no avail. I then booted from a start-up floppy, to no avail. I then re-installed the system software (which seemed irrational, but one never knows, and at this point I had nothing to lose), still to no avail. I then re-enabled all of the original INITs and CDEVs, re-booted the Mac, and ran TattleTale (version 1.7.4) to see if there were any drivers or other system processes (possibly hidden) that might account for the problem--yes, to no avail. I don't know what's left other than the sound card, and I can't conceive of how or why it would interfere with the modem port. Has anyone out there had a similar experience? I'm stumped, and aside from the MIDI considerations I have already explored (albeit I may have overlooked something), I don't know what could cause the modem port to be occupied. Any suggestions would be most welcomed. Please respond to me directly, if possible (i.e., instead of posting to this newsgroup). Ron Webster (ijw6rhw@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU) ============= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 01:11:46 +0200 From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Midi files/software archives on the Internet There is a list of ftp and mail server archives with MIDI documentation, programs and music on the Internet. Also enclosed is a list of MIDI and electronic music related mailing lists. The latest version of this file can be obtained by ftp from ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] in pub/MIDI/DOC/archives or by mail from mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (send a message with HELP in the body). From the mail-server the filename without pub/ should be used. The latest monthly version is also available in the various news.answers archives around the world, in music/midi/archives. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 14:51:17 -0700 From: Nate Waddoups Subject: Re: MIDI-Mail: Mac -> PC, list-implementation question On Tue, 21 Jun 1994, Peter Sellars wrote: > I'd like to mail a MIDI file (produced on a Mac) to a friend in Japan (who > for some reason has a PC). I'm sure some of you do this all the time; which > way works best? email beats postal mail every time. No question about it. > I send mail with Eudora which offers me a choice of encoding attachments in > AppleDouble or BinHex. I could attach the file in its .SMF format, or turn > it into .zip format first. Whichever, what utilities would the benighted PC > user need to turn it into a playable file at the other end? (How did your PC-using friend get knighted?) (Context: I'm a PC user) Having never heard of AppleDouble, and not being entirely sure if BinHex is available for PCs, I wouldn't suggest either. However, it may simply be the case that I lead a sheltered life. Every PC user I know has .zip utilities, though. An archie seach for pk, or pkzip, or 204g (the latest version) should provide the full toolset. I think it's called pkz204g.exe, but I'm not entirely sure. Question for the person/people that run this list: How is list mail distinguished from regular mail? My mail program (pine) marks personal mail with a '+,' but not list mail. I ask because I'm considering a .vacation file, and I'd hate to see it reply to the list, only to have to reply mailed back, and get replied to again... I'm told that the .vacation file won't reply to mail with 'precedence: bulk' in the header, and that is commonly used to avoid this kind of problem, but I don't see that in the header for mail from this list. --natew@halcyon.com--------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 08:40:57 -0600 From: "DARREN B. HUTCHINGS - PANPAN" Subject: Re: MIDI-Mail: Mac -> PC, list-implementation question I don't know if the macs can use it, but when I send files, I UUencode them, send them as the bulk of the mail message, and the person on the other end simply extracts them, UUdecodes them and has a file! The reason why I suggest this is that (I think) a reasonable amount of internet stuff is UUencoded, and that macs can use UU. Compressionally yours, Darren ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 16:13:22 -0500 From: Rick Gammon Subject: MOD SQUAD THEME This may a big shot in the dark but I'm looking for a midi "ized" version of the theme song for this old TV show of the 70's. It is for a 20 year reunion I been asked to help with in the way of music and video. If you have or know of a placeI could get this in ????.mid format thanx, also the class of '74 thanx you. Direct email or post to list would be fine. bulldog@iastate.edu Compuserve ID# 71540,2130 1-515-233-3103 Rick Gammon of Ames in Iowa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 14:46:17 -0500 From: Burton Beerman Subject: pc vs mac I use both mac and pc for music and prefer the IBM platform. As a mjusic editor, I find SCORE (while not reallyy MIDI interactive) a musch more transparent way to produce hardcopy of my music. Cakewalk Pro 2.0 for windows I find much more intuitive than either vision or performer. CuBase is excellent and works on both platforms. Some softeware works only on the mac, however, such as max. You might try Roger Dannenberg's CMT (MIDI tool Kit)for interactive programs (you write it in C code). It's available on both mac, and IBM and Amiga as well and available from the computer science det dept at carnegie-mellon inPitt. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 01:42:56 EDT From: michael Subject: Re: pc vs mac Where? I have been very interested in doing some of my own C programming for m idi applications. I own Turbo C++ for windows, and I am willing to look towar d whatever changes I need to perform this programming effort. I would love to get any names and addresses you can supply. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:57:23 CST From: Darwin Grosse Subject: Re: pc vs mac >You might try Roger Dannenberg's CMT (MIDI tool Kit) for interactive programs >(you write it in C code). It's available on both mac, and IBM and Amiga as >well and available from the computer science det dept at carnegie-mellon >in Pitt. Huh? Never heard of it - but am interested. Can anyone share what this thing is about??? [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 377-2946(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@prosrv.ems.com .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 12:17:37 EDT From: michael Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? Good luck in your change. I have used both formats as well and personally am t he most creative when I'm the most relaxed in my system, for me that is the PC. What I wonder is why you can't use both, you sound like you have a PC now? As long as your not looking for great support in the future from Apple, the new chip is likely to slap the mac's around a little, you might do fine. More and more vendors are crossing the lines and soon I think the differences will be harder to see, but for now we do have to make choices. When I was PC shopping the power and price in part chose PC for me. Good luck I've never regretted my choice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:36:08 CST From: Darwin Grosse Subject: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? John, thanks for the reply. Here are some notes ... > - Unless you know what you are getting into, you would do well to reconsider >the decision for moving from PC to Mac. About 2 years ago I convinced >myself that a MIDI-only Mac was necessary for the continued expansion of my >studio. I then went out and dumped about $7k into a Mac IIci system with a >couple of MTPs, Performer and Galaxy. I have been frustrated ever since. I >despise and loath the Mac. While I know that there are a substantial number >of computer literate people who love the platform and can actually make it >do something useful in a MIDI studio, there is something about the user >interface which does not match my ergonomic ideals. Clearly, Mac MIDI >software is featurewise technically superior to anything which runs on a PC. > Unfortunately, if you can't get past the user interface, no impressive >number of features will do you much good. I have found that I can get more >accomplished using WinCake running on a 386 laptop than I can with my Mac. > As a matter of fact, I now bring the laptop into the studio and run most of >my studio from it, using the Mac only as a sophisticated router. Interesting. I find very few people who despise and loath the Mac! When making the decision, I wrestled with the following: Pros (for a change): 1. A totally different creative environment. I spend 8-12 hours/day looking at a PC screen. I can program toad's-ass-smiling on a PC. However, if I sit down at a PC screen to compose, I inevitably find myself going tech-weenie; i.e., I wnat to write cool CAL programs (was using Cake/Win - loved it!), writing MIDI software or looking at the work-that-had-to-be- done. I would prefer a system that supports the technical->creative paradigm shift that I (seem to) need. 2. MAX is only available on MAC :-> 3. Sequencer/audio technology seems to be more advanced on the MAC systems. While I haven't been unhappy with Cake/Win, combining audio with sequencing provides some functionality that will enhance my creativity. 4. I don't have to "throw away" all PC usage. In fact, I expect that the PC/Cakewalk combo could be a handy "crescent wrench" to help out in dire straits. Cons (against a change): 1. I know the PC - both software and hardware - cold. If something croaks, I can probably fix it in a minute. If not, I probably have a spare of the broken thing sitting in the basement. 2. Cakewalk is only available on PC :-< 3. I've used Cakewalk for years (since v1.1), and am comfortable with it. I know CAL programming, and have used it to get me out of a few jams. 4. Many of my friends are using PC/Cake combos. Exchange of data for the same sequence is _bliss_. Basically, at this time, Pros 1&2 beat out Cons 1&2, especially given Pro 4. Con 4 is a bite, however. >I realize that all people are different and it is obvious that factional >subsets of the population react differently to the Mac environment. It is >not a universal panacea, however, and should be regarded with no more >reverence than any other platform's operating environment. One thing is >clear, however, and that is that Macs are really not for everybody. > Unfortunately, there seems to be a bit of ambiguity as to who, exactly, >"the rest of us" really are. > >John I chose the Mac for non-partisan reasons - I've always felt ill around Mac superiority types. I've worked with the Mac extensively, and I think it'll work for me. However, the caution you present is wise, and hopefully can be used by others contemplating the same change. [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 377-2946(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@prosrv.ems.com .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 11:02:11 -0700 From: Doug Wellington Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? Darwin wrote: >Interesting. I find very few people who despise and loath the Mac! Count me as one! And I really despise and loath people who think that the Mac is the end-all and be-all of computers... I have learned to despise Macs after doing system admin and user training on them for the last five years. It was fine when all there were was Macs on one little net sharing a printer, but when we started transferring data back and forth to DOS, VMS and UNIX, watch out! ("Huh, two forks? What? Binhex? What do you mean I have to _have_ Stuffit before I can download Stuffit????") I think the switch to system 7 was the final straw for me. Lots of software broke, and _everything_ ran slower. And now Apple wants me to switch to the PoserPC, and run everything in emulation (limited emulation at that)??? I don't think so... I really think the PoserPC Macs are a mistake. Can you say "PS/2"? Can you say "NeXT"? (Yes, I know Darwin isn't getting a PoserMac, I'm glad.) Darwin wrote: >Pros (for a change): >1. A totally different creative environment. Well, it's still a computer, so it doesn't make it _that_ different... Why not try throwing away your computer and use some kind of alternative controller like the PowerGlove or something? You can always get an MDF2 or a MIDI Streamer to record what you create... When it boils down to it, there isn't really all _that_ much of a difference between just firing up Windows and using a Mac. After all, the most important thing you have to deal with is the _software_ that you have, not necessarily the hardware/OS that you use. Which leads to: >2. MAX is only available on MAC :-> I thought you wanted to get away from that "programming neat macros" kind of stuff? And besides, from what I understand, Opcode is now porting everything for Windows anyway... To continue on the "different creative environment" idea, why not just switch between using a sequencer and a notator? I find that sometimes just looking at notation instead of a piano roll is a real boost. I use Encore, and it looks the same to me on either the Mac or a PC... I also switch to using Jammer, Band-in-a-box, Drummer, or Ravel or DIME for a "different environment"... >3. Sequencer/audio technology seems to be more advanced on the MAC systems. > While I haven't been unhappy with Cake/Win, combining audio with sequencing > provides some functionality that will enhance my creativity. There are several audio packages available for DOS/Windows systems, and I'm sure there will be more. Heck, aren't a couple packages available on both sytems? (Cubase audio maybe?) >I chose the Mac for non-partisan reasons - I've always felt ill around Mac >superiority types. We agree on that... >I've worked with the Mac extensively, and I think it'll work for me. Well, after all, that is the most important reason to make the switch - if you think it will work for you. I hope that it meets your expectations. Let us know when/if it does! -Doug PoserPC, just say "No"... Gee, how much did you pay me for these opinions? I guess that's how much they're worth... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:35:13 -0700 From: loomis@KGC.COM Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? > From: Doug Wellington > > Darwin wrote: > >Interesting. I find very few people who despise and loath the Mac! > > Count me as one! And I really despise and loath people who think that the > Mac is the end-all and be-all of computers... > I really think the PoserPC Macs are a mistake. Can you say > "PS/2"? Can you say "NeXT"? (Yes, I know Darwin isn't getting a PoserMac, > I'm glad.) Your tone here resembles the tone of the Mac evangelists you are attacking. Personally I despise/loath anyone who evangelizes anything. I can make up my own mind, thank you. > When it boils down to it, there isn't really all _that_ much of a > difference between just firing up Windows and using a Mac. After all, the > most important thing you have to deal with is the _software_ that you have, > not necessarily the hardware/OS that you use. Exactly -- so what platform people use is largely irrelevant. I think a lot of people would prefer to use PCs for what they do since they are cost-effective; the problem is certain apps only run on certain platforms. This is a legitimate justification for choosing a particular platform. I use a Mac, but because I can achieve an integrated solution to my music composition problems. If there was a (less-expensive preferably) solution on the PC that would give me the equivalent of Pro Tools, Studio Vision, Galaxy, Max, SampleCell, Turbosynth and Sound Designer II with the same level of integration that I currently have, then I would using a PC instead. I don't think that's the case today, so I am a Mac user. If/when things change, I will also. BTW, I just bought a NeXTstation so I can use the software developed at some of the universities (e.g. CCRMA, Princeton, etc). It's difficult to invest in what seems like "dead" technology, yet this is the very reason I was able to get a pretty good deal. The bottom line: Shop for apps, not hardware. But you knew that already. Mark Loomis loomis@kpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:41:58 -0500 From: Siberian Khatru Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Doug Wellington wrote: > > To continue on the "different creative environment" idea, why not just > switch between using a sequencer and a notator? I find that sometimes > just looking at notation instead of a piano roll is a real boost. I > use Encore, and it looks the same to me on either the Mac or a PC... > I also switch to using Jammer, Band-in-a-box, Drummer, or Ravel or > DIME for a "different environment"... > What's DIME? Just for the record, I'm a PC user and love it for my music applications. I use Cakewalk Pro 4.0 (DOS), Band-in-a-Box, and Ravel. I also have experience with the Macs. The school I attend swears that Macs are the way of the future (they do, occassionally say, "Well the IBM does have a few good programs." :-< ) This is especially frustrating when I'm in a class which has to use this Mac (and they won't allow assignments to be done on my PC!) With my experiences, I'm much more comfortable with the PC platform. But, everyone has their own preferences. Jon Southwood jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 16:50:48 CST From: Darwin Grosse Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? >I really think the PoserPC Macs are a mistake. Can you say >"PS/2"? Can you say "NeXT"? (Yes, I know Darwin isn't getting a PoserMac, >I'm glad.) Hmmmm. I chose against the Pow/serMac due to "yet another" AV implementation, emulation-mode (hated the concept - even it if does work), and the drop-dead price I bought the 660AV for (from a hungry student looking to _upgrade_). >Well, it's still a computer, so it doesn't make it _that_ different... Yes, but a seperate one. Since I wanted to change the working environment, it probably meant a second computer. Hence, the opportunity for an option. I want to have a "different world" when creating than when working. >Why not try throwing away your computer and use some kind of alternative >controller like the PowerGlove or something? You can always get an MDF2 >or a MIDI Streamer to record what you create... Actually a great point. Just picked up a PC-1600 - loads of MIDI faders - for just such a thing. Also looking for a simple, cheap percussion pad set. Something like a pipe to bang on ... I like Nick's statement - he gets creative by shutting the system down. I've not (yet) chosen that route, but I am exploring. >When it boils down to it, there isn't really all _that_ much of a >difference between just firing up Windows and using a Mac. After all, the >most important thing you have to deal with is the _software_ that you have, >not necessarily the hardware/OS that you use. Which leads to: Umm, I disagree somewhat. I think that my creative flow can be easily short-circuited by falling into routine. Not that this can ever be avoided. However, if it isn't "just that easy" to flip over to play solitare or jump on the net, and if I'm not staring at a screen that begs "Get that proposal out today!", I might be less likely to fall into that routine. While the hardware/OS may not have much to do with this, what will help is my decision to: o Allow no non-musical software on the computer unless it is to specifically aid my composition process. o Only allow communication software that will _not_ provide access to either work or my standard net connections. I can easily spend 5 hours/day surfing the net - and it's fun! However, it does not allow me to enter that mystical creative zone. Most likely, no communication software will exist at all. o No games. While I do agree that games _could_ be used for non-deterministic composition, more than likely it will be used as a time waster... If I am going to fall into a routine with the music system, at least I want it to be a musical routine! >>2. MAX is only available on MAC :-> > >I thought you wanted to get away from that "programming neat macros" >kind of stuff? And besides, from what I understand, Opcode is now >porting everything for Windows anyway... I don't want to program, but I also don't want to work with mitten on. It's a dicey thing for me - how do I not go "tech-weenie"? Basically, I'm resigned to doing some music-specific programming; therefore, I want the best tool available. Same goes for CSound. >To continue on the "different creative environment" idea, why not just >switch between using a sequencer and a notator? I find that sometimes >just looking at notation instead of a piano roll is a real boost. I >use Encore, and it looks the same to me on either the Mac or a PC... >I also switch to using Jammer, Band-in-a-box, Drummer, or Ravel or >DIME for a "different environment"... Actually, given my music school background, I will often resort to staff paper. The quality of arrangements between "play it til it sounds OK" and "write it down" is great - when a written part is appropriate. However, I ain't a-gonna write down no Minimoog-through-Rockman solo. I've used BinB - I find myself writing Jamie Abersol tunes. Drummer makes me feel like dancing ... sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes in a way that'd get me arrested. Ravel/Dime - never tried 'em. I've tried the different strokes approach up 'til now - I can now afford a different approach. >>3. Sequencer/audio technology seems to be more advanced on the MAC systems. >> While I haven't been unhappy with Cake/Win, combining audio with sequencing >> provides some functionality that will enhance my creativity. > >There are several audio packages available for DOS/Windows systems, and I'm >sure there will be more. Heck, aren't a couple packages available on both >sytems? (Cubase audio maybe?) Either very expensive, or too problematic for me. Cubase audio, if I want to wait for the Yamahaha CBX digital box. No thanks. The best audio (at a reasonable price) that I found was the SAW software - but sync with MIDI/SMPTE required some odd-ball looping interface cable hellhole thing that I did'nt want to deal with. Also, the cost (with DAL card) approached the Mac cost. PC's have a little way to go yet - but they're getting there. I should be wiring up next Monday. I'll keep a little journal, and will post to SYNTH-L (per suggestion) on my experiences... [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 377-2946(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@prosrv.ems.com .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:53:44 -0400 From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? > > I like Nick's statement - he gets creative by shutting the system down. I've I agree. In fact I take care of the creativity part of it before I turn the thing on in the first place. I simply cannot write music either on a sequencer. If I sit at a keyboard and improvise, the music I get is *so boring* it's not worth recording at all. And I can't use a notation program to write music because I rarely conceive music one line at a time. I'll hear 2-part counterpoint in my head and trying to toggle between staves is cumbersome. Much quicker to write it down. Or I'll get a melody with some suggestion of the harmony. My personal feeling is that the more compositional work you can do in your head the more personal the end product is going to be. Machines have an insidious way of directing the flow of the music, even if only subliminally. Just my personal feeling about it. That's why I get really irritated when somebody gets on his high horse about any computer platform. Use the one between your ears for chrissakes. > Umm, I disagree somewhat. I think that my creative flow can be easily > short-circuited by falling into routine. Not that this can ever be avoided. My creative flow thrives on my routine. I've made it a habit to compose first thing in the morning after breakfast. I've become "Pavlov's composer". Give me coffee and an English muffin and the composing module in my brain starts to salivate. I'm so conditioned that I can just sit down at the keyboard and just start writing music (in spite of what I say about doing as much as possible in your head, I still like to have the keyboard to refer to). I don't have to wait to get inspired, I just get in the habit of being inspired first thing in the morning. > > o Allow no non-musical software on the computer unless it is to specifically > aid my composition process. > o Only allow communication software that will _not_ provide access to either > work or my standard net connections. I can easily spend 5 hours/day surfing > the net - and it's fun! However, it does not allow me to enter that mystical > creative zone. Most likely, no communication software will exist at all. > o No games. While I do agree that games _could_ be used for non-deterministic > composition, more than likely it will be used as a time waster... The other insidious thing about computers: the distraction factor. My final disclaimer. I'm sure plenty of you have developed your own routines that involve the computer and your just as programmed to follow your routine as I am with mine. I have no intention of saying you're wrong. So there. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 00:04:52 +0100 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: PC-Mac ... Reconsider? >I agree. In fact I take care of the creativity part of it before I turn >the thing on in the first place. Ah no, I don't, since part of the creative process is the (pseudo) random generation of ideas, at which machines are quite good. >I simply cannot write music either on a >sequencer. That's a fault of the design of modern sequencers IMHO, not a problem with the machines in general. It's one of the reasons why I hate sequencers. >> o Allow no non-musical software on the computer unless it is to specifically >> aid my composition process. I tend to dedicate my computers to particular tasks as well, as a focussing exercise. The PowerBook 100 is working as a waveform editor for the sampler, and that's about it. The 170 is a MAX engine. Somehow it seems to help by eliminating the distraction factor. >My final disclaimer. I'm sure plenty of you have developed your own >routines that involve the computer Part of the routine is overcoming the fear of not being able to create. The trick is to do that by adopting play, but WITHOUT falling into distraction. It's focussed play, if you like. Hmm. Yeah. "Focussed Play(TM)." I like that. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 13:55:39 -0500 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Problem midi-recording matrix-6 aftertouch data > I can not get the pressure/aftertouch data midi-recorded > in MusicShop from my Matrix-6. If I manually enter > aftertouch data in the sequencer it is sent to the Matrix-6 > and it has an effect. However, if I play with aftertouch, > the data is not recorded in Musicshop. I don't know if the > data is not being sent by the Matrix, or if it not being > recorded by Musicshop. Other data such as pitch bend is > recorded. Does anyone know what is wrong, or have > suggestions on how to troubleshoot this? Oh, well... Don't think there is much to be done. I've got the same problem with my EPS and Musicshop. -- Arne F. Claassen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine Inch Nails on MTV Unplugged - "The whole band is onstage. Chris is behind the drums and a tape deck not plugged in, no sound. Everybody's waiting to play. He hits it again. Nothing. I yell at him. He hits it again. Nothing. Then we smash our gear and walk offstage!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 22:35:21 CST From: Darwin Grosse Subject: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) Well, it's happening. I've decided to purchase a music-only computer system. The verdict - MAC. Why? Because I need to be as far away from my work world (that's PC's, Unix and Vax) when I am working on music. I am also trimming down my hardware system; from many moderate units to a few "deep" units. All of this is being done on a non-existant budget... I've just decided that I have to seperate the tech-weenie from the struggling-musician. The computer hardware is purchased - being shipped. I chose to compromise on a lot of things (required by above budget) and purchased a Quadra 660 AV. Ohhhh, I know it doesn't have Nubus slots, and Digidesign boards aren't cool on it. However, I wanted to get a reasonable, good-for-a-coupla-years board. From what I see, one is better off (with computers) getting a basic unit, purchasing required peripherals, then getting a new CPU. Seems to have worked for me in the PC world. Well, the questions: 1. For those long term Mac-ists, what is the non-MIDI peripherel that has proven to be the most useful when making music? 2. Is there an advantage to purchasing hardware/software combinations that are single-producer; i.e., Performer/FreeMIDI/MTP or Vision/OMS/Studio4? 3. What are some general conclusions about different software packages? For instance "XYZ is best for pattern-based music" helps me, "ABC sucks big", however, does not. 4. While an AV system is not (close to) the be-all-end-all of digital stuff, it gives me a chance to start working with digital sound. Am I best to pursue a software package like OSC's Deck, or to try an combine sequencing and sound work with Studio Vision? 5. I want to go _real_light_ on mixing consoles. I've already gone through Mackie 1202 and 1604 mixers. I would much prefer an automated, computer controlled mixing system. What are my options? 6. What are the realistic minimum system configs for the setup I am implying above? The 660AV is coming as an 8/230/CD. I have an external Syquist 105, and a 1.2 Gig external available. Is 8 meg of memory enough? Will the Syquist be usable for digital audio? Assuming that the 1.2 Gb drive is only occasionally available, am I in trouble? 7. What gives with FreeMIDI vs. OMS. Where does the war stand? From what I can tell, I greatly dislike the MOTU stance on the thing. Should this be enough to discourage me from purchasing from them? 8. Are there demo versions of any of the major MacMIDI software packages? 9. What do you use, and why? Thanks for indulging me. I know this is begging for a lot of info, but I trust you-all (or yall) more than my local dealer (who is pushing Performer and MTP - everything else is _crap_). Thanks in advance for your help. [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 377-2946(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@prosrv.ems.com .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 09:06:28 -0500 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) > The computer hardware is purchased - being shipped. I chose to compromise > on a lot of things (required by above budget) and purchased a Quadra 660 AV. > Ohhhh, I know it doesn't have Nubus slots, and Digidesign boards aren't cool > on it. However, I wanted to get a reasonable, good-for-a-coupla-years ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [laughing wildly] Sorry about that. I'm a minister of the Church of Mac, but i'll readily admit that Apple churns out new products and inovations faster than you can test-drive them. Sure it's not gonna be a worse computer once the next thing comes out, but i still sob everytime i see what my money buys now. I bought a Centris 650 no FPU, 4MB Ram and 80 HD for $2300 (that even was educational discount). And every few months that worth dropped by half. Now i can get a PowerMac 6100 w/ 8MB and 350HD for the same or less. Ho hum. > > 4. While an AV system is not (close to) the be-all-end-all of digital stuff, > it gives me a chance to start working with digital sound. Am I best to > pursue a software package like OSC's Deck, or to try an combine sequencing > and sound work with Studio Vision? I'd personally go for the Studio Vision (or Cubase AV, Performer AV or Notator Logic Audio for AV), since i'm born and raised on piano-roll sequencing. OSC Deck is more for those that want to integrate the feel of 4-track with editing and sync it to a sequencer. > > 5. I want to go _real_light_ on mixing consoles. I've already gone through > Mackie 1202 and 1604 mixers. I would much prefer an automated, computer > controlled mixing system. What are my options? 1604 with OTTOmation? Otherwise, there isn't much out there. Maybe the DMP MIDI mixers (Yamaha?) > > 6. What are the realistic minimum system configs for the setup I am implying > above? The 660AV is coming as an 8/230/CD. I have an external Syquist > 105, and a 1.2 Gig external available. Is 8 meg of memory enough? Will > the Syquist be usable for digital audio? Assuming that the 1.2 Gb drive > is only occasionally available, am I in trouble? If the Syquest does work for HD recording, do report back here. I'd love to know. If it doesn't, 230MB is cutting it mighty short for HD recording. For that matter a 105 cartridge is only about 5 minutes on 4 tracks. > > 7. What gives with FreeMIDI vs. OMS. Where does the war stand? From what > I can tell, I greatly dislike the MOTU stance on the thing. Should this > be enough to discourage me from purchasing from them? The war stands that OMS is avalailable (not 2.0, though) and has lots of registered support (everybody except MOTU) and FreeMIDI is vapourware. I've seen the magazine adds heralding it, but so far i've not seen it show up in the real world. > 9. What do you use, and why? I use Musicshop, because it was cheap and that's what i needed at the time. Doesn't let me use the SMPTE capabilities of my Studio 3, though. I'll be going to Audiomedia II plus StudioVision as soon as i get a job (even with a Masters in Industrial Engineering, this economy isn't very promising...) -- Arne F. Claassen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine Inch Nails on MTV Unplugged - "The whole band is onstage. Chris is behind the drums and a tape deck not plugged in, no sound. Everybody's waiting to play. He hits it again. Nothing. I yell at him. He hits it again. Nothing. Then we smash our gear and walk offstage!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:31:11 CDT From: John Eichenseer Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) >W/S SR - Got one ... gonna sell. Gonna sell to me? :) I'm a-lookin' for one, casually. >Sampler - You have a K2k without the sampling option? For shame. Hear hear. >Well, it's happening. I've decided to purchase a music-only computer system. >The verdict - MAC. Congratulations. A wise choice, nay, the ONLY sane choice... >1. For those long term Mac-ists, what is the non-MIDI peripherel that has > proven to be the most useful when making music? A syquist drive for archiving songs, sound data, etc. Oh, you've already got one... er... a nice monitor, obviously. >2. Is there an advantage to purchasing hardware/software combinations that > are single-producer; i.e., Performer/FreeMIDI/MTP or Vision/OMS/Studio4? Hmmm... I would be VERY wary of your dealer pushing MOTU. I bet he gets a better cut, that's all. Vision/OMS seems to be the informed choice these days... ask Nick about Opcode's unmatched application integration. You will no doubt want to pick up Galaxy Ed/Lib's as well, which work very nicely with Vision. I don't think the MIDI interface matters much. I think MTP's are a bit cheaper, and work fine. FYI, I use an MTP, OMS, Galaxy, and... CUBASE. A great sequencing package that I really enjoy, although the latest rev of Vision includes some of the features that were previously only available in Cubase (i.e., track overview). The whole sequencer question is really a matter of taste; try to play around with different packages at your local dealer. I believe there are demo versions of Vision and Cubase out there. >3. What are some general conclusions about different software packages? For > instance "XYZ is best for pattern-based music" helps me, "ABC sucks big", > however, does not. I am not crazy about what people conclude in this area. For instance, people have said "Cubase is god for pop music." Great - but I use it for some pretty bizarre stuff as well. Really, all the top-notch sequencers are pretty well on-par, feature-wise; the choice is primarily a question of interface feel and integration. BTW, I hear good things about Notator Logic; probably worth checking out, and I think they have a demo version. >5. I want to go _real_light_ on mixing consoles. I've already gone through > Mackie 1202 and 1604 mixers. I would much prefer an automated, computer > controlled mixing system. What are my options? I use a Mackie 1604 with the OTTO automation package: very nice setup for the price. Of course, you can do a lot of mixing via MIDI volume and pan messages; all the sequencers these days have mixer pages which let you do that stuff. >9. What do you use, and why? I actually used Performer, Vision, and MasterTracks Pro quite a bit before selecting Cubase. Cubase had some features that no one else did. Like I said, the latest Vision catches up a bit in those areas. Cubase lags behind in OMS integration, etc., but should catch up soon. One other thing I like about Cubase is it's real-time nature. You can do almost anything while the sequencer is playing, and not lose a beat. For instance, you can save your song while it is playing (!). The low-level MIDI stuff is all interrupt-driven. BTW, I also use MAX and M, for MIDI programming and algorithmic composition. I recommend both packages highly to anybody interested in their capabilities. >Thanks for indulging me. I know this is begging for a lot of info, but I >trust you-all (or yall) more than my local dealer (who is pushing Performer >and MTP - everything else is _crap_). Thanks in advance for your help. No problem. Good typing exercise. BTW, I would be quite wary of any dealer that is so adamant about his recommendations. A dealer should help you select what's best for ya, not push you toward his personal favorite or maximum commission. Good luck; let me know about the WS... jhno ....... . . .. . . . . . . . . Joh n E i c h e n s e e r D e l i c a t e E a r (512) 458-6474 eichen@trilogy.com . . . . . . . .. . .... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 13:31:31 -0400 From: Patrick Robinson Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) John SEZ: > ... I > despise and loath the Mac... > ... there is something about the user > interface which does not match my ergonomic ideals. [...] > I realize that all people are different and it is obvious that factional > subsets of the population react differently to the Mac environment. It is > not a universal panacea, however, and should be regarded with no more > reverence than any other platform's operating environment. One thing is > clear, however, and that is that Macs are really not for everybody. Let's try to put this in perspective... John, didn't you once say you didn't like the Xpander's interface? One man's intuitive interface..... ;-} -Patrick pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:35:00 PDT From: "Rossi, John" Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) - Unless you know what you are getting into, you would do well to reconsider the decision for moving from PC to Mac. About 2 years ago I convinced myself that a MIDI-only Mac was necessary for the continued expansion of my studio. I then went out and dumped about $7k into a Mac IIci system with a couple of MTPs, Performer and Galaxy. I have been frustrated ever since. I despise and loath the Mac. While I know that there are a substantial number of computer literate people who love the platform and can actually make it do something useful in a MIDI studio, there is something about the user interface which does not match my ergonomic ideals. Clearly, Mac MIDI software is featurewise technically superior to anything which runs on a PC. Unfortunately, if you can't get past the user interface, no impressive number of features will do you much good. I have found that I can get more accomplished using WinCake running on a 386 laptop than I can with my Mac. As a matter of fact, I now bring the laptop into the studio and run most of my studio from it, using the Mac only as a sophisticated router. I realize that all people are different and it is obvious that factional subsets of the population react differently to the Mac environment. It is not a universal panacea, however, and should be regarded with no more reverence than any other platform's operating environment. One thing is clear, however, and that is that Macs are really not for everybody. Unfortunately, there seems to be a bit of ambiguity as to who, exactly, "the rest of us" really are. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 21:28:22 +0100 From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) First of all: this is better on SYNTH-L, where the readership is probably more tuned into this sort of thing; EMUSIC-L is for people to go plink-boing at each other. Point #2: heed carefully the word of the Rossi. Macs aren't for everyone. I use three of them for music, and love them, and hate them. For other stuff (TCP/IP, networking, development) I swear by (non sys-V) UNIX. It all depends on your priorities; one of mine is a small portable platform which runs MAX. That's why I have two PowerBooks. >1. For those long term Mac-ists, what is the non-MIDI peripherel that has > proven to be the most useful when making music? Dancers and Deadlines. The less peripheral the better. >2. Is there an advantage to purchasing hardware/software combinations that > are single-producer; i.e., Performer/FreeMIDI/MTP or Vision/OMS/Studio4? A year ago I used Performer and two MTP's. Now I use Vision and (Opcode) MAX, OMS, and today received a Studio-4 which I swapped with someone for my MTP-II. No money changed hands. Short answer to your question: yes. Otherwise you take on the task of systems maintainer as well as musician, and forever be in the middle of fifteen things, all of them annoying. I personally swear by Opcode, since I can talk to the developers directly, and since their integration is superb; MOTU is, or was, a lot weaker on that point. Besides, I needed MAX. >3. What are some general conclusions about different software packages? For > instance "XYZ is best for pattern-based music" helps me, "ABC sucks big", > however, does not. No comments here, since I'm a bit left-of-field and don't use sequencers much. No comments on #4 or #6 either, sorry. >5. I want to go _real_light_ on mixing consoles. I've already gone through > Mackie 1202 and 1604 mixers. I would much prefer an automated, computer > controlled mixing system. What are my options? If the quality is OK to you, the Fostex MIDI mixers are lovely little machines. 1U high, 8 stereo feeds, separate fader box for programming. Very limited in routing, though, and slightly prone to distortion. I'm saving for one of the Yamaha digital mixers (DMP9-16) but they're effing pricey. However, I can be patient; it'll be worth it. >7. What gives with FreeMIDI vs. OMS. Where does the war stand? From what > I can tell, I greatly dislike the MOTU stance on the thing. Should this > be enough to discourage me from purchasing from them? That's your call; I think Opcode and MOTU have committed equal atrocities, and Apple are hardly blameless. OMS is solid and I've been using it for two years, and love it. FreeMIDI is sitting on a floppy disk here somewhere, version 1.01. You gotta ask yourself one question: do you feel lucky? >9. What do you use, and why? MAX on PowerBooks. Sequencers are worse than useless for any interesting live work (worse because they constrain your ways of thinking), and I need something flexible, a toolkit for building performance ideas quickly and for improvising with dance/movement performers (with or without corsets). For recording I use Vision for recording the notes and feed data and sync to MAX. >I know this is begging for a lot of info, but I >trust you-all (or yall) more than my local dealer The first step on the road to wisdom, grasshopper. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 20:17:00 PDT From: "Rossi, John" Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) - > Let's try to put this in perspective... John, didn't you once say you > didn't like the Xpander's interface? Yes, I did. I'm not sure, however, how this relates to my post. There are a lot of user interfaces that I don't like. The Xpander's interface is unique to the Xpander, and requires 'Xpander-logic' for navigation. I have always felt that the Matrix-6 interface is much more easily assimilated because the 'how-to' algorithm mnemonic is a lot easier to learn. There is no question that I would prefer the Xpander interface to almost any Japanese box available, bit that isn't really saying a lot. I think that device interfaces (synths) are different than, say, computer (sequencer) interfaces because of the dissimilarities in the devices (e.g., any analogue synth vs the DX7). Computer interfaces, on the other hand, perform very similar functions. While my brain will apparently take the time to understand, and use, differing device interfaces, the confusion and learning inhibition brought about using multiple computer interfaces is too much for it. > One man's intuitive interface..... One man's boat anchor.... John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 12:13:26 +0200 From: Sjoerd Bijleveld Subject: Re: The big switch ... (PC-to-Mac) >FreeMIDI is vapourware. I've seen >the magazine adds heralding it, but so far i've not seen it show up in the real >world. About one month ago I received Performer 5.0 with *FreeMIDI* and it runs fine on my 660AV.... Sjoerd Bijleveld ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************