EMUSIC-L Digest Volume 68, Issue 07 This issue's topics: Algorithmic composition Algorithm Composition Composition? algorithmic composition list Composition? Algorithm Composition (5 messages) Your EMUSIC-L Digest moderator is Joe McMahon . You may subscribe to EMUSIC-L by sending mail to listserv@american.edu with the line "SUB EMUSIC-L your name" as the text. The EMUSIC-L archive is a service of SunSite (sunsite.unc.edu) at the University of North Carolina. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 15:29:24 BUE3 From: Alejandro Feiges Subject: Algorithm Composition Hi all! I'm developing a programm that composes music, based on the information aquired from MIDI files. I want to know what is Algorithm Composition, which techniques it has, and whatever that makes this theme. Are there papers talking about this? Thanks! Alejandro ----------------*> <*--------------- | Alejandro Feiges | | Tel : 54-1-381-4624 | | Internet : ale@chopin.satlink.net | | feiges@colort.edu.ar | ----------------*> <*--------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 15:54:23 -0400 From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: TO WHOM I have just now joined the list. This is my first list. I am whelmed, but not overly so. Could someone tell me more about what goes on? Are AI topics frequently discussed here? Other computer-assisted composition? Thanks. Scott McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 00:51:00 -0700 From: Nate Waddoups Subject: Re: your mail On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Joe McMahon wrote: > > I have just now joined the list. This is my first list. I am whelmed, > > but not overly so. Could someone tell me more about what goes on? Are > > AI topics frequently discussed here? Other computer-assisted composition? > Welcome, Scott! We haven't discussed AI and computer-assisted composition > much because we tend to have more studio types. However, many of us (myself > certainly included) love to discuss such topics. Please feel free to post > a new message and get something started. With respect to AI and composition, there is a list devoted to algorithmic composition techniques of all kinds that might interest you. I don't remember exactly how I subscribed to it (it was a while ago), but try sending a message with the word 'HELP' in the body (and maybe the subject too, for good measure) to: listserv@heinous.isca.uiowa.edu It will probably tell you to send a message with 'SUBSCRIBE ALGO-COMP' or something like that... Hope this helps. (And welcome here, by the way) +-------------------+------------------------------------------------------- | natew@halcyon.com | You write Windows code? Mac code? OS/2 PM code? +-------------------+ Want a great job in the pacific northwest? Send me email, we'll talk... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 10:58:39 +0200 From: Terje Winther Subject: Re: Composition? >TO WHOM > > >I have just now joined the list. This is my first list. I am whelmed, >but not overly so. Could someone tell me more about what goes on? Are >AI topics frequently discussed here? Other computer-assisted composition? >Thanks. > >Scott McCoy No, I can't say. I would very much welcome more composition-related topics. (: tw. Terje Winther Produksjonskonsulent/Producer Ny Musikk / I.S.C.M. (Norwegian section of the International Society for Contemporary Music) Ny Musikks Komponistgruppe / New Music Composers' Group Tollbugata 28 N-0157 OSLO Norway E-mail: terje@notam.uio.no Telephone: +47 2233 7090 Telefax: +47 2233 7095 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 10:59:23 +0200 From: Terje Winther Subject: Re: Algorithm Composition Hello, Alejandro. >Well. I want that the computer be able to compose a classical music piece. >I input, for example, 20 pieces of Bach, inventions for 2 and 3 voices,ie. >So, i would like that the computer makes a new piece, keeping inventions >style. Gee,this was not what I had in mind. Algoritmic COMPOSITION means that you (or someone else) makes an algorithm (the process itself) that will be used as a basic foundation for making music. Remember that the process inprinciple doesn't have do be done on a computer, but this is usually the case, since algorithms tend to be rather complex. An extremely simple algorithm can be like: - Take a note (this is your input) - The nest note should be higher (note that it doesn't say anything about HOW much higher) - When the range reaches the defined high limit, repeat the process from start - Do this until the defined number of cycles have been made. Speaking of complex; an algorithm that can recreate Bach's inventions, would be extremely complex. When I did my counterpoint exam, I didn't do a high score, just because I had studied Bach's OWN works, and not the rules that had been EXTRACTED from his works. What I mean to say, is that Bach didn't make music that fitted into his rules, because he had a firm grip on things, and could be very free within the framework he was working in. >Well, you said that i change the algorithm if i don't like what i obtained, >but how should i do it? In my example, if you don't like the result, you can change how much higher the next note sould be. >I should do it? Yes, definitely! If you don't, you don't compose! >The computer must to find the correct algorithm? The essential question. 1. I don't know any program that you can feed musical examples, and have the program extract the rules in order to recreate a new piece in the same genre. (Anybody?) If this is what you're working on Alejandro, boy, you do have a large project ahead of you. But please, if you do reach you goal, let me (and the rest of us) know. 2. There are a lot of programs that mimics several genres, with a sort of "intelligent" auto-accompament function - this is automatic (but simple) composition. I don't like to call this to compose, because if you use the raw material coming out of these programs, someone else have really composed the material (OK, the rules then), and even though there are a lot of random functions, it doesn't make interessting music. You CAN however use the material as a starting point, and then develop the piece further. THAT, would be composing. >Now, that you know what i want to do,Do you know which kind of information >i must to look for? You can buy the commercial programs, or get the freeware/shareware programs, read textbooks et al. on the subject, og get an Ph.D. in music, art, computerprogramming et al. >Thanks for your time, > Alejandro Feiges. > >must to look for > >----------------*> <*--------------- >| Alejandro Feiges | >| Tel : 54-1-381-4624 | >| Internet : ale@chopin.satlink.net | >| feiges@colort.edu.ar | >----------------*> <*--------------- (: tw. Terje Winther Produksjonskonsulent/Producer Ny Musikk / I.S.C.M. (Norwegian section of the International Society for Contemporary Music) Ny Musikks Komponistgruppe / New Music Composers' Group Tollbugata 28 N-0157 OSLO Norway E-mail: terje@notam.uio.no Telephone: +47 2233 7090 Telefax: +47 2233 7095 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:33:42 -0500 From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Algorithm Composition > >Well. I want that the computer be able to compose a classical music piece. > >I input, for example, 20 pieces of Bach, inventions for 2 and 3 voices,ie. > >So, i would like that the computer makes a new piece, keeping inventions > >style. Bakc in the May 1993 issue of Electronic musician was an article about a program that seemed to do waht you require. It was an ars combinatoria algorithm, based on tridas. Since it appears that a number of classical composers used recombination in their style. The program written in common lisp was supposed to be able to extract the syle from some examples and create new measures witht eh original signature. IT was an interesting article. They said that the program is available on PAN in the EM SIG (at least back then). The auther was David Cope. If anyone has ever downloaded this program or could still download it from PAN. Please let me know. Thanks.. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Somebody's got his finger on a DX7!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:10:19 -0600 From: Bet my hair is longer than yours! Subject: Re: Algorithm Composition >Arne Claassen wrote: >Bakc in the May 1993 issue of Electronic musician was an article about a >program that seemed to do waht you require. It was an ars combinatoria >algorithm, based on tridas. Since it appears that a number of classical >composers used recombination in their style. The program written in >common lisp was supposed to be able to extract the syle from some examples and >create new measures witht eh original signature. IT was an interesting article > >They said that the program is available on PAN in the EM SIG (at least back >then). The auther was David Cope. If anyone has ever downloaded this program >or could still download it from PAN. Please let me know. I'd like to see the actual program too. David Cope wrote a book about this program. I think the title is Computers and Musical Style and it was published in 1991. -Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:06:11 -0500 From: Siberian Khatru Subject: Re: Algorithm Composition With respect to the idea of a computer extracting style from a composer and composing works in that style, check out David Cope's book on the subject. He has spent a vast amount of time doing research and creating algorithms for that whole thing. The book (I think) is called _Computers and Musical Style_ (or some such thing). Cheers, Jon Southwood jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu ****************************************************************************** "I once played poker with a deck of tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died."-Steven Wright "If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith."-Albert Einstein "Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence." -Henrik Tikkanen ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 01:00:31 -0700 From: Nate Waddoups Subject: Re: Algorithm Composition On Fri, 16 Sep 1994, Terje Winther wrote: > 1. I don't know any program that you can feed musical examples, and have > the program extract the rules in order to recreate a new piece in the same > genre. (Anybody?) If this is what you're working on Alejandro, boy, you do > have a large project ahead of you. But please, if you do reach you goal, > let me (and the rest of us) know. I've done a little bit of work towards this end, actually. The program uses a neural network, trained on a few bars of 'flight of the bumblebee,' and, with a little work, I'll have the outputs fed back to the inputs. The results should be interesting. Unfortunately, I was interrupted in this project, and haven't yet gotten back to it, but if I get it working, I'll be sure to post here. I have a 'gut feeling' that neural nets are well suited to this kind of task, and before long, I'll hopefully be able to back that up... +-------------------+------------------------------------------------------- | natew@halcyon.com | You write Windows code? Mac code? OS/2 PM code? +-------------------+ Want a great job in the pacific northwest? Send me email, we'll talk... ------------------------------ End of the EMUSIC-L Digest ******************************