========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 01:31:56 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ron Jones Subject: Re: seq software for pc Mabey so but you get waht you pay for becieds why would want to learn somthing substandard then have to learn all over. Get Calkwalk For Windows or Qbase ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 09:23:33 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Emily Gene Park Kottkamp Subject: want to learn about it So, uh, hi there! I am an electronic musician (piano/synth player) interested in getting involved in this forum. Since I'm as green as spring when it comes to the Internet, I may make a few mistakes along the way (I hope this isn't one of them!) How can I subscribe? and, what will I be subscribing to if I do? Finally, has anyone seen/touched/heard about the new Kurzweil PC88mx digital piano controller? I'm about ready to buy it (sight unseen; we don't get much e controller. I'm about to buy it (sight unseen) and could really use a little nudge in the right direction right now. Thanks much! Hope this dadburn newfangled contraption works... Matt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:36:13 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Philip Bednarski Subject: Re: please sign me off please sign me off your distribution list. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 16:35:32 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Mark S Wow. You continue to make the case against academia in a wonderfully inane manner. You seem to believe that there's this great big nasty institution out there, with no regard for what you call the 'real' stuff of music is all about. Your comments are simply recursive and uninformed. If one can't use discretion when some goofball goes off on a screed about pitch, then I believe this is a sign that one has stopped thinking for himself. As for dealing with the 'who' (and yes, I understand we're not talking about Pete Townshend) exactly 'who' are you talking about? Is it the 'guess who'? How do you want to communicate with them? Are you trying to make sure they "dig it man, oh yeah, i get it, oh yes, i understand man' Unfolding the secrets of humanity in some way? Seems to me, Mark, that you're interested in attempting to objectify the aesthetic experience. Well, the comments regarding the analogy between sex and experiencing music are quite hilarious. Would one have as dry a time after the Kama Sutra? All I ask for is acceptance of other ways of experiencing music, including analysis. And you, the great speaker for humanism (I suppose) due to some pain in the past with oral boards or what have you, have decided that it all must go!!! Your screeds against foundationalism are simply advocations for re-foundationalism. I suggest reading a little on Nancarrow to see how he dealt with this. Please re-examine your statements. Please understand that what you are advocating is what you seem to be complaining about, only in a different flavor. Phrases like "then that would be okay", that qualify when and how analysis SHOULD or OUGHT to be done sound just as dry and crackled as anything amongst the ivy. In short, your arguments simply contradict themselves. And your irrationality and problems in dealing with what you would like to call the 'musical elite' are just the familiar ramblings of a person who, deigning to live on the outside, live and like to be offended in some way. Yet, we need this as well. I believe it would be good for us to be more accepting of different experiences. You believe only a few should be accepted. We disagree on this point, and others, I would assume. But I believe it is a good kind of disagreement. Perhaps a good exercise would be to take your basic vocabulary of qualifying words like 'good' and 'bad' and then sit down to a sheet of paper, draw a straight line down the middle, label one side OBJECTIVE and the other SUBJECTIVE and see what happens. My guess is that the words you use, like 'boredom', will most likely pile up under the latter. Cheers. mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 21:44:16 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Hello. I would like to excuse subscribers for last week's mess. My account was disabled without a warning and messages from the list were bounced back. I don't know how many did get back on the list but if they did I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to make such mess. I was acused locally of hacking the system. I didn't do such thing and it took a week to give me back my account. Jacek L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jacek Latanowicz tel/fax Pl-(0-48-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 jack@vm.amu.edu.pl jlat@uci1.ae.poz.edu.pl 61-306 Poznan jlat@plearn.edu.pl (Jack1 on IRC) POLAND "'I wish I had a dream...'" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 23:05:29 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: ADRIANO PIETA Subject: 03R/W Hi to you all! could anyone give me some info on changing the A/G banks on the 03R/W through cakewalk. 90% of the sounds I use are from bank A, but when I load the song within cakewalk, all the sounds are turned into bank G. what are the real differences between 03R/w and 05R/w? thanx in advance! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 09:12:09 GMT+1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jackie Organization: QUT Library Subject: Guitar sounds G'day, I'm new to this list - so I hope my question is not out of place here. ;) Could some recommend a synth or sampler that has particularly good guitar sounds, and/or violin sounds? thanks in advance :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________ | | || | | | || || | | | || | | | |_||_| | |_||_||_| | |_||_| | | | | | | | | | | | | |__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__| "In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 16:40:48 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Environmental Systems Research Institute From: Tapas Das Subject: Re: Guitar sounds I would highly recommend the EMU Proteus FX rack mount unit. It has a good collection of acoustic/electric guitar samples. This is a very cost effective unit. Sweetwater sells them for $559. It comes with 512 sounds and 32 note polyphony and built in effects. However, you should go to a music store and check out the following gear before you decide. Rack mounts: Roland SC88 Roland JV1080 Yamaha TG500 Korg O1R/W Korg Wavestation SR - has a fabulous lead guitar patch. Keyboards: Roland JV90 with orchestral expansion board Korg O1/W Pro You should also consider samplers from EMU and Akai and definitely the venerable K2000RS and check out the magnificent samples from the ProSonus CD library. No matter what you play with, any guitar or violin sample can be sonically enhanced once you pass it through an Ensoniq DP4 judiciously applying the proper effect chain. My personal favorite is the Sony M7 chorus module in conjuntion with the awesome Sony R7 stereo reverb. You can also try out the new Lexicon PCM80. All of the above will give you a killer sound. Your specific requirements and your ears should dictate what your buy. Tapas Das. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 09:48:04 GMT+1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jackie Organization: QUT Library Subject: Re: Guitar sounds Tapas, Wow! Thanks so much for your thoughtful and detailed message. I'll definately look into the items you recommended. I'm an ex-keys player who sold everything to go study, but now I would like to get back into it again. Is the EMU proteus related to the Emax keyboard......I had one of those in my last band *snif* :( !! thanks again Tapas regards Jack ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________ | | || | | | || || | | | || | | | |_||_| | |_||_||_| | |_||_| | | | | | | | | | | | | |__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__| "In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:21:51 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Gardner Subject: Welsh???? >A Welsh composer who is considered to be the central figure of the > "new complexity". He is currently living and teaching in San Diego. > Check him, he's great. No No No. Ferneyhough was born in Coventry. He's English. Jim ========================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:57:36 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Which Mac to buy (I'm a moderate, really, I am!) > Obsynth: why do you never get long tedious nerdy flamewars about >which synth is the "best"? :-) How long have you been on this list? :-) Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:13:26 +0900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Suzuki Takahiko Subject: Gibson Lab's MAX Hi, Does any one know about Gibson Labs MAX(not IRCAM's MAX)? It is Guitar to MIDI signal converter. I'm looking for MAX for long time,but I've never seen it. If someone has info,please let me know.Any info is appreciate. Thanks, Takahiko Suzuki ps Please send e-mail directly to me at takahiko@shotgun.phys.cst.nihon-u.ac.jp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:53:04 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mon-chu Chen Subject: E-music graduate school.... In-Reply-To: <9408081543.AA24511@cc.nctu.edu.tw> from "E. Candy Held" at Aug 8, 94 11:39:17 am Dear Netters, I would like to know graduation requirements for master degree in computer/electronic music of any school. Could you please give me some information? Thank you. Chen, Mon-chu u8342514@cc.nctu.edu.tw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:02:21 BST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Philip Jones Hi All, I am researching into the MIDI protocol and wondered if anybody could answer a few of my questions? I only have MIDI spec 1.0 which does not cover a lot of available MIDI functions. 1) Are Systems byte 0xf1, 0xf4 and 0xf5 still undefined? 2) Are real time bytes, 0xf9 and 0xfd still undefined? 3) How are new timecode systems implemented? 4) What is the format for MIDI sample dumps. i.e. what codes do they use and what is their specification? 5) What other new developments and assumed standards have been implemented since MIDI spec 1.0 in 1983? 6) How can I contact the International MIDI Association (IMA) either with Email or if that is not possible by ordinary post (preferably a UK address)? If anyone could help me with any or all of these questions I would greatly appreciate it if you could Email me. Thanks Phil Jones (pj02@ee.ic.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:14:39 BST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Philip Jones Hi All, I would be very interested if anyone knows of, or has had any experience with a MIDI generating, organ pedal board. This request is for a friend who is an organist/guitarist and wants to combine the two simultaneously!! I have never come across such a device but maybe one exists. I am not after a 'MIDI pedal' but a complete pedal board, i.e. one and a half octaves of large foot operated pedals set out as for a keyboard. They need to be able to generate simple MIDI off/on or just have their own integral sound source. If anyone has heard of such a device (slightly bizarre) I would be greatful for further info. Thanks. Phil Jones (pj02@ee.ic.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:01:49 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Guitar sounds In-Reply-To: <9410152312.AA07094@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 13 X-Sun-Content-Length: 825 It's fairly easy to get a good guitar sound (leave out the subject of playing technique for a while) on any sampler or sample-based synth. Since the guitar note dies away naturally, the programmer doesn't have to worry that much about looping and saving memory. The guitar sounds on my K2000 are pretty good and you can also get more samples off the net or from CD-roms etc. Now for the fiddle, that's a different story. I don't think anybody's factory fiddles are particularly good. Besides, string instruments are so flexible that there really isn't a single defining sound. You're going to need samples of all sorts of bowing, molto-vibrato, senza vibrato, etc. For that a good sampler with lots of memory is required. Then you'll have to spend a lot of time nosing around for the particular sort of sounds you need. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:00:59 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Holly Boundy (508) 682-1727" Subject: Korg 01/W FD question Does anyone know how to set the MIDI mode from the default (Mode 3, Omni Off/Poly) to Mode 1 (Omni On/Poly)? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, H.Turner (hboundy@mvlc.lib.ma.us) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: seq software for pc >Mabey so but you get waht you pay for becieds why would want to learn >somthing substandard then have to learn all over. Speaking from personal experience, economic reasons can be a powerful motivator to look at less-expensive options. I agree that yes, when I finally upgrade to using a computer instead of my VFXsd's internal sequencer that I will have to relearn my sequencing habits, but that's not a big deal. --- Joe M. -- "At the end of the hour, we'll have information on the sedatives used by the artists,,," (MST3K) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:07:58 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: Ears and beers (was: Sex and Academia?) >So where can one learn a little (or alot) more about this "Wavelet >Analysis" theory? I took a Psychology of Perception class last semester, >and this was barely alluded to...Are there any Universities working on >research in this area right now? > >intrigued- > >-thad The Wavelet Analysis is a very new research area. Though it is one with lots of activities. At my last publication retrieval I found 1.500 entries in one data base. It started a few years ago with some thought from a geophysic guy, who needed something for measuring the reflections of waves seismograhic inside the earth. That idea was adopted by the mathematics. The today existing applications include data compression (audio/video), and some frequency analysis. Yesterday I read in a magazine that the FBI use a wavelet based compression for storing fingerprints. JPEG wasn't good enough for their purposes. After getting deeper into it, the last days. I am not too sure what musical/acoustical aspects it can fulfill beside the compression. I hope to get faster applications for audio analysis/synthesis, the fourier based ones are just too slow. Ciao, Stefan <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 08:30:44 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199410170917.CAA09197@mail.netcom.com> from "Philip Jones" at Oct 17, 94 10:14:39 am Philip Jones writes-- > >Hi All, > >I would be very interested if anyone knows of, or has had any >experience with a MIDI generating, organ pedal board. This >request is for a friend who is an organist/guitarist and >wants to combine the two simultaneously!! > >I have never come across such a device but maybe one >exists. I am not after a 'MIDI pedal' but a complete pedal board, >i.e. one and a half octaves of large foot operated pedals set >out as for a keyboard. They need to be able to generate simple >MIDI off/on or just have their own integral sound source. > >If anyone has heard of such a device (slightly bizarre) I would >be greatful for further info. If you insist upon an octave and a half, you may have problems; most MIDI pedalboards are only an octave. Korg made one, and Roland has made one or two in its history (including, I think, one still on the market today, which may be 1-1/2 octaves, but I can't be sure). Most are controllers for external synths. If you must have 1-1/2 octaves, look for a Moog Taurus II pedalboard minus the synth, and use its CV and S-trigger outs to run to a CV-to-MIDI converter. I played with one of these rigged to an Oberheim Xpander for a while; it made for a nice adjunct to my bass guitar playing. -- mike metlay | atomic city | The Mrs., on some ugly grandfather clocks: p.o.box 81175 | pgh pa 15217-0675 | "Wow. Ticky-tacky that's ticky AND tacky." atomic@netcom.com | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:56:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: Guitar sounds In-Reply-To: <01HIBD4E3J1E9EHBQ7@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Sat, 15 Oct 1994, Tapas Das wrote: > I would highly recommend the EMU Proteus FX rack mount unit. > It has a good collection of acoustic/electric guitar samples. > This is a very cost effective unit. Sweetwater sells them for $559. > It comes with 512 sounds and 32 note polyphony and built in effects. > > However, you should go to a music store and check out the following gear > before you decide. > > Rack mounts: > Roland SC88 > Roland JV1080 > Yamaha TG500 > Korg O1R/W > Korg Wavestation SR - has a fabulous lead guitar patch. > > Keyboards: > Roland JV90 with orchestral expansion board > Korg O1/W Pro > > You should also consider samplers from EMU and Akai and definitely > the venerable K2000RS and check out the magnificent samples from > the ProSonus CD library. > > No matter what you play with, any guitar or violin sample can be sonically > enhanced once you pass it through an Ensoniq DP4 judiciously applying the > proper effect chain. My personal favorite is the Sony M7 chorus module > in conjuntion with the awesome Sony R7 stereo reverb. You can also try > out the new Lexicon PCM80. > > All of the above will give you a killer sound. Your specific requirements > and your ears should dictate what your buy. > > Tapas Das. > WOW! This was not my question, but I just had to show my appreciation for such a well thought out, complete, and constructive reply! My regards to Tapas Das! -thad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Sound Constructors Net-zine Hi, I'd just like to announce that the first edition (and very late edition) of the SoundConstructors Net-zine is now available on WWW. http://isl-garnet.uah.edu/psychohttp/sc.html The first issue features interviews with: 1. Team Metlay 2. Feed 3. Chemlab Enjoy. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:00:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: Welsh???? In-Reply-To: <01HIBEXCCU769EHNJS@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Sun, 16 Oct 1994, Jim Gardner wrote: > >A Welsh composer who is considered to be the central figure of the > > "new complexity". He is currently living and teaching in San Diego. > > Check him, he's great. So what is this "new complexity"? A replacement term for "IDM"? curious- -thad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:11:46 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "R. Edwards" Subject: Re: pkunzip for windows In-Reply-To: <199410171456.HAA03716@netcom16.netcom.com> Hi all This is a bit off topic so if you can reply to me via email I'd appreciate it and i'm sure everyone else will too I've recently downloaded some shareware and I've always been able to use the pkunzip program. It worked fine on one of the programs but not so on some of the windows programs. Basically, rather than exploding the files, it scrolls the language across my screen and I can't stop it until it's reached the end of it. Then when i go into the directory, I find it hasn't unzipped the file at all. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. Maybe I need to use a different unzip program? If so, where can I find it? Or am I not including the right codes when I unzip? Thanks again rona rebel@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:32:04 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: seq software for pc Our fearless leader on sequencers: > >Mabey so but you get waht you pay for becieds why would want to learn > >somthing substandard then have to learn all over. > > Speaking from personal experience, economic reasons can be a powerful > motivator to look at less-expensive options. I agree that yes, when I > finally upgrade to using a computer instead of my VFXsd's internal > sequencer that I will have to relearn my sequencing habits, but that's not > a big deal. I don't want to lug around a computer to gigs. That's both an economic and tactical motivation. Economic because of wear and tear (especially hard drives) and tactical because of my bad back. That's why I used DirectorS in my Roland S550 sampler - the only extra weight beyond the sampler was the floppy disks! Currently, I not playing sequences outside my home but in case that ever changes, I'm using a Roland MC50 sequencer. A lot lighter than a computer and much more rugged. Joe, do you play any live gigs? Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com CAUTION: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85 million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:39:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: anyone know www for csound hey, does anyone know the www address for csound? phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:18:46 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Schuh Subject: Re: seq software for pc Bill Fox once said: > I don't want to lug around a computer to gigs. That's both an economic > and tactical motivation. Economic because of wear and tear (especially > hard drives) and tactical because of my bad back. You can get rack-mount PC's & Monitors, you can even get a slide-out drawer for the PC keyboard. This is what I plan on doing, even though I am not a live performer, It's a royal pain to drag my system to the local studio (which only has Macintoshes.) Later, Paul ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:38:07 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Cheng, Derek" Subject: Re: seq software for pc In-Reply-To: <594C863A01A92C79@-SMF-> You could use a notebook or laptop. |"jwhan asheu dnad ndd anqj" | oo | -Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam | \/ cderek@psd.symbol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:34:03 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: seq software for pc >Our fearless leader on sequencers: :) >Joe, do >you play any live gigs? > Not right now anyway. I have looked over my album and could, with some judicious muting of tracks, easily transform the diskette that holds the album into a live-performance set, opening it up to allow me to play solos in the appropriate places. Problem is, right now I could only *do* one set before I ran out of music. Guess I could punch up some of the covers of stuff from "Twin Peaks"... (T8, where's a T8? :) ) The other problem is that I'd have to replace the audience between numbers. Your average "cool-jazz" patron is going to be highly confused by a Stockhausenesque exploration of the border between sound, motion, and rhythm... --- Joe M. -- "Don't be absurd. We're scaring the locals with music for fun, not profit." (Lord Cthulhu, in Savage Henry #1) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:38:50 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jason Price Subject: Sequencing I am currently in the market for new sequencing software for my P.C. I now own TRAX and am looking for something a little more. I have heard little about new Cakewalk 4.0 for Windows. Does anyone know a VERY good sequencing and Notation program that's for P.C.??? E-Mail at: jason_price@cc.cranbrook.edu Thanx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Anderson Subject: Sequencers for Mac Seeking advice: Am about to put down money on a product called Opcode Vision AV. What I want to do is put a 4-track Tascam into my Mac 660AV and later add a Roland JV80 or 90 to the chain. Vision AV apparently give me 4 analog channels as well as 64+ midi. Is my 230HD/16RAM plus Syquest 88 enough hardware for for 4 virtual analog tracks? And I presume I it will sequence with my 4-track. Anyone else have experience with this product? I was leaning toward Cubase, but this will save major bucks if I don't have to buy a digital 8-track or other expensive devices that give me analog input. -------------------------------------- Terry Anderson - anderst@news.latimes.com TimesLink, Los Angeles Times Voice: (213) 237-2265 Fax: (213) 346-8515 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 22:05:44 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Brian G. Skrab" Subject: Frequency What??? greetings, i have just recently joined this mailing list and would like to share my opinion on one of the topics that has been discussed. this topic being (frequency orgasms). first of all, it's quite an interesting subject... although it has little, if nothing, to do with emusic-L. several people have written concerning their experiences with various vibrations (frequencies), stating that certain frequencies have caused an increase in sexual stimulation in some females. since everyone seems to have put in their two cents, as it were, i feel i might do the same. concerning the frequency of 7Hz... and so 4th, forget all that. it is known that these continuous frequencies have nothing to do with orgasms in female humans. simply put... have a listen to "closer" by nine inch nails. i might add a note that the volume of the music is directly proportional to the intensity of the effect. in more lucid terms, THE LOUDER THE BETTER!!!! w e l l... that's my two cents by the way, i've got someone who will testify to this theory. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 22:00:42 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nate Waddoups Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199410170919.AA27603@halcyon.com> On Mon, 17 Oct 1994, Philip Jones wrote: > Hi All, > > I would be very interested if anyone knows of, or has had any > experience with a MIDI generating, organ pedal board. This > request is for a friend who is an organist/guitarist and > wants to combine the two simultaneously!! > > [parts omitted] > > If anyone has heard of such a device (slightly bizarre) I would > be greatful for further info. I think Geddy Lee (bassist/vocalist/etcist for Rush) has something like this - don't know who makes it or anything about it... Hope this helps. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 22:08:15 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Garza Subject: Electronic drumming Hi, I'm not a member of this list, but could really use help with the following problem--I own a set of practice pads and a 386 PC. I would like to know what setup can be used to connect the practice pads to my computer so that I can: 1) practice with headphones; 2) sample sounds; 3) modify sounds that I have sampled. I do not have a soundcard yet and could use some suggestions about that. A ballpark dollar amount would also be helpful. Thanks very much, David Garza ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 10:25:22 BST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stewart Barrie Subject: Cabaret Voltaire Hi Is anyone out there familiar with Cabaret Voltaire, particularly material from the last five years. I've been trying to get the accompanying video to their 1992 release 'Plasticity' for some time now. Any ideas? Stewart Barrie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:18:10 BST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Philip Jones Hi All I have just finished reading your article from the Internet entitled 'How much for the MIDI' and was wondering if you could help me with a few points? I am currently a third year undergraduate at Imperial College, South Kensington, London, studying Electrical and Electronic Engineering. For my third year project I need to find specifications for the many changes that have been made and added to MIDI since its specification 1.0 in 1983. I would be most appreciative for the specifications and details of the following if you have these available: * MIDI sample dump standard * MIDI show control * MIDI Time Code * MIDI machine code * Tuning Standard * Bank Select * All Sound Off command * Are System bytes &f1, &f4, &f5 still undefined? * Are real time bytes &f9, &fd still undefined? * Details of standard assignments to controllers * MIDI implementation of master volume and balance control and any other developments and assumed standards since 1983 added to the MIDI spec. If you cannot help me I would appreciate any contacts you may have or references which will enable me to find out this information. Thank you for your help. Philip Jones (pj02@ee.ic.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:51:20 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Re: your mail The edge, from U2, also uses such a device. I thought it was either Korg or Digitech that made it. phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:45:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stephen David Beck Subject: High Voltage '94 Concert Series PRESS RELEASE: HIGH VOLTAGE '94 Concert Series High Voltage '94, Louisiana State University's fourth annual Festival of Electronic and Computer Music, will take place October 20, 22, and 28 on the LSU Baton Rouge campus. This year's festival will feature guest composer Richard Boulanger and the Baton Rouge dance company In The Company Of Dancers. An art exhibit of student works will be exhibited in the lobby of the School of Music beginning Monday, October 17. The concert schedule is as follows: Concert I - Guest Composer Thursday, October 20, 1994 LSU School of Music Recital Hall, 8pm Richard Boulanger, Guest Composer The concert will feature works for interactive computer, Matthews Radio Baton, Mattel PowerGlove and live performers by Richard Boulanger, faculty of the Berklee College of Music in Boston. Concert II - A Concert of World Premieres Saturday, October 22, 1994 LSU School of Music Recital Hall, 8pm The concert will feature four world premieres. Composers include former LSU students Bryan Fusilier and Dennis Miller (now on the faculty of Northeastern University in Boston), current doctoral student Stephen Lias, and new faculty member Jeffrey Perry. LSU faculty members Griffin Campbell and Matthew Brown will be guest performers. Concert III - Music, Dance and Images Friday, October 28, 1994 LSU Union Theatre, 8pm Featuring "In The Company Of Dancers," Lisa Hooks, Director Tickets available from the Union Box Office or TicketMaster A concert of modern dance, multimedia, and live performance close out the festival with works by Ira Mowitz, Elizabeth Hinkle-Turner, and LSU graduate students Kalah Brown, Kevin George, and Barry Stinson. In The Company Of Dancers will perform two new works choreographed to the music of Brown and George, and art graduate students Neal Daugherty and Larry Giacoletti will present visual accompaniment created for Stinson's work. High Voltage is presented by the Electro-Acoustic Music Studio. Associate Professor Stephen David Beck directs the festival, and Recording Engineer Joel Boyer is the Technical Director. Concerts in the Recital Hall are free and open to the public. For more information: call (504) 388-3261 -- Stephen David Beck Electro-Acoustic Music Studios School of Music Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, LA 70803 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Taylor Subject: The Complexitee Nouveau is in... Thad Lewis asks a general question following on the heels of Jim Gardner's drumbeaating for the plucky Welsh [who need no vowels]: >>A Welsh composer who is considered to be the central figure of the >>"new complexity". He is currently living and teaching in San Diego. >So what is this "new complexity"? A replacement term for "IDM"? No. I'm pretty sure the term originates with the Brit press. It's probably an alternative to coming up with a term which doesn't locate itself over and against minimalism in quite as direct a fashion. Beyond Ferneyhough, I think you could also group Michael Finnissey and Magnus Lindberg and [I think she'd probably not exactly agree, but she did study with Brian] Kaija Saariaho. There's a disc of BF's string quartets by Arditti on Disques Montaignes, a Finissey disc called something like "Country Tunes" on EtCetera, Lindberg's "Action/Signification/Kraft" on Finlandia or "Kinetics/Marea/Joy" on Ondine, and Saariaho's disc "du Cristal/a la Fumee" on Ondine or the one with "Verblendungen/Io" on Finlandia. I think they're an acquired taste which I've only imperfectly acquired. I'm a big fan of both Saariaho and Lindberg, but find Ferneyhough himself a bit of rough sledding. The audience for my radio program seems to run rather hot and cold: they're either on the phone begging for CD catalog numbers or denouncing me as the spawn of demons whenever I air the work. Interestingly, that portion of my audience whose allegiances might be described as being weighted toward the love of industrial/noise/gestural/violent stuff seem to like it just fine [the segues may have something to do with this, of course]; in fact, one really young kid has just started asking me about where he can find more of "that kind of stuff" because he seems really sick of the lack of dynamics in the industrial stuff he listens to [he'd never describe it that way, of course]. Mark Anthony Turnage's "Three Screaming Popes" seems rather a hit in that respect, too. With regards, Gregory ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 14:17:30 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Taylor, Nigel" > I would be very interested if anyone knows of, or has had any > experience with a MIDI generating, organ pedal board. This > request is for a friend who is an organist/guitarist and > wants to combine the two simultaneously!! Geddy Lee has used Taurus bass pedals since the mid-seventies, though I've been unable on numerous occasions to be able to find a contact address or a supplier for them - anyone know? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:44:53 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Louis Pape Organization: Dakota State University Subject: Re: MIDI info. It seems that your needs are very technical. There is a source of books, etc., called the MIX BOOKSHELF. It's pretty well known in the states, though I don't have the address right under my fingers at the moment. I know that they have a lot of materials that would address the info you need. If you need further info, I should be able to find the address for you. LP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:33:02 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Roger I. Ramnath" Subject: Re[2]: your mail >The edge, from U2, also uses such a device. I thought it was either >Korg or Digitech that made it. >phil >sps5251@siena.bitnet Can someone rename this string so I can delete it before I open it? Thanks. No offense intended... I love the Edge of U2. Roger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:09:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Re: Gibson Lab's MAX I would be interested as well. phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:07:24 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Grasett Organization: Sir Sandford Fleming College > Geddy Lee has used Taurus bass pedals since the mid-seventies, though I've > been unable on numerous occasions to be able to find a contact address or a > supplier for them - anyone know? Isn't the Taurus an old MOOG product? Maybe people who do MIDI retrofits on old synths could do the same for a set of Taurus pedals. JG John C.S. Grasett - Delivery and Infrastructure Group Information Technology Services Department Sir Sandford Fleming College Frost Campus - Room 180 voice: (705) 324-9144 ext. 3334 fax: (705) 878-3699 Randomly selected pearl of wisdom: 'The probability that we will fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.' - Abraham Lincoln ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:08:34 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Grasett Organization: Sir Sandford Fleming College Subject: Re: Cabaret Voltaire > Is anyone out there familiar with Cabaret Voltaire, particularly > material from the last five years. I've been trying to get the > accompanying video to their 1992 release 'Plasticity' for some time > now. Any ideas? Great band! Hmmm, recent stuff, can't say I've seen much. I tend to listen to the older material they did, like "over the sholder". JG John C.S. Grasett - Delivery and Infrastructure Group Information Technology Services Department Sir Sandford Fleming College Frost Campus - Room 180 voice: (705) 324-9144 ext. 3334 fax: (705) 878-3699 Randomly selected pearl of wisdom: '...in the power of sex over people, are included many possibilities. It includes the chief form of slavery and the chief form of liberation.' - Gurdjieff ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Mac Av digital audio and disc space In-Reply-To: <199410172317.QAA02864@mail3.netcom.com> from "Terry Anderson" at Oct 17, 94 04:21:54 pm Terry Anderson writes-- > > Seeking advice: > Am about to put down money on a product called Opcode Vision AV. What >I want to do is put a 4-track Tascam into my Mac 660AV and later add a >Roland JV80 or 90 to the chain. Vision AV apparently give me 4 analog >channels as well as 64+ midi. Is my 230HD/16RAM plus Syquest 88 enough >hardware for for 4 virtual analog tracks? And I presume I it will >sequence with my 4-track. Um, I frankly admit to being a bit confused. A four-track Tascam WHAT? Tape recorder, or audio I/O card? Your statements could point to either. Vision AV gives MIDI and digital audio channels that are in sync, but to synch it with your 4-track (assuming you mean a tape machine, in which case I don't know what you mean by putting it 'into' your Mac) will require a Mac interface that can follow some sort of audio timecode that you've prestriped on one of your four tracks, leaving three for taped music. The one question I can answer flat out is as follows: the rule of thumb for digital audio (16bits, 44.1 kHz sampling rate, as on a CD) is a bit over 5 Megs per minute per channel. Add a little for overhead depending on how the program handles storage, and double it if you want to have a copy of your work so that edits don't destroy your data irretrievably. Ignoring the overhead and extra copies for a second, we find that 88 Megs is exactly one thousand track-seconds of data: that's an eight-minute song in stereo or a four-minute song on four-track. Your 230 Meg hard drive, allowing a fairly lean ten or twenty Meg for your system software and apps, would last a bit over ten minutes of four-track input before it choked. That could be a twenty-minute stereo file, or more realistically, one five-minute song on 4-track with a backup of each track of audio. Usable but cramped. This is why everyone isn't doing four-track digital audio at home with their computers yet; cost of the I/O circuitry aside, the disc space requirements are terrifying. To do a whole CD of music, allowing for piecemeal edits of some songs and a few tracks in four-track form (but most stored in stereo), you would want to start at 1 Gigabyte, minimum. A disc drive setup like yours would require you to record your songs one at a time and offload them to DAT or other tape medium before moving to to work with another song. Your system could work as is for very short pieces, like commercial jingles or promo spots; otherwise, you're going to have to invest in a larger hard drive. In fact, you should think about a separate hard drive for digital audio anyway; it gets fragmented very quickly, and hunting for programs and audio data on the same drive can slow things down a bit. When you start working with multitrack digital audio, extra RAM can help a lot, too, and 16 Meg seems a bit thin, but I don't know nearly enough about that part of digital audio recording on AV Macs to answer any questions there. mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:25:09 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199410181621.JAA20256@mail2.netcom.com> from "John Grasett" at Oct 18, 94 12:07:24 pm John Grasett writes-- > >Isn't the Taurus an old MOOG product? Maybe people who do >MIDI retrofits on old synths could do the same for a set of Taurus >pedals. As I said earlier, the easiest way to get MIDI from a set of bass pedals such as the Moog Taurus, taurus II, or Taurus III, is to buy a CV-to-MIDI converter and simply process the control signals from the unit itself. No retrofit required. Actual MIDI pedals, as made by Roland and Korg, are neater, but may not provide enough pedal range (one octave vs. 17 notes). -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:12:16 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space In-Reply-To: <9410181647.AA21993@ebs330> from "atomic city" at Oct 18, 94 09:22:27 am Metlay explains the perils of CD quality digital soundfiles and how it affects need for storagius gigantus and goes on to say: > This is why everyone isn't doing four-track digital audio at home with > their computers yet; cost of the I/O circuitry aside, the disc space > requirements are terrifying. To do a whole CD of music, allowing for > piecemeal edits of some songs and a few tracks in four-track form (but > most stored in stereo), you would want to start at 1 Gigabyte, minimum. The problem with the AV set-up is that it does not include Digidesigns DATa software (is it available seperately? then again the AV has no digital outs). With that you could work on a song at a time and dump the edit material to DAT between songs and finally bring only the two track masters back on line for mastering of a CD. For a 60 minute CD you're looking at roughly 600-700MB of two-track material. So a gig drive could be quite managable (not that we have those laying about, do we?). Another important aspect is that your sound data should be on a different physical drive from your application programs and data. If you have them on seperate partitions you will avoid getting your sound data being fragmented by applicattion data, but the drive head will still have to hop between partitions to serve the system needs and to write/read aduio. This can cause drop-outs for more than two track material. (which incidentally is just a rephrasing of Metlay, i just noticed. :) ) > A disc drive setup like yours would require you to record your songs > one at a time and offload them to DAT or other tape medium before > moving to to work with another song. Your system could work as is for > very short pieces, like commercial jingles or promo spots; otherwise, > you're going to have to invest in a larger hard drive. In fact, you > should think about a separate hard drive for digital audio anyway; it > gets fragmented very quickly, and hunting for programs and audio data > on the same drive can slow things down a bit. > > When you start working with multitrack digital audio, extra RAM can > help a lot, too, and 16 Meg seems a bit thin, but I don't know nearly > enough about that part of digital audio recording on AV Macs to answer > any questions there. That's a question i've been wondering about. After all, digital HD recording is supposed to give you random access, but RAM will not permit to have all of your tracks in memory all the time. How does the buffering into RAM work? Do these programs load as much of the data into RAM as they can or do you tell it how much to load into RAM or does it just create an overview and keep all the data on disc until playback? -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 14:18:53 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: your mail On Sat, 15 Oct 1994, L Mccoy (GD 1999) wrote: > Mark S > > > > Wow. You continue to make the case against academia in a wonderfully > inane manner. You seem to believe that there's this great big nasty > institution out there, with no regard for what you call the 'real' stuff > of music is all about. > > Your comments are simply recursive and uninformed. If one can't use > discretion when some goofball goes off on a screed about pitch, then I > believe this is a sign that one has stopped thinking for himself. It's hard to know how to repsond to this one, since it seems to consist mostly of personal insults, but I gather you disagree with me about something, and that therefore I suck. That's about all I can get out of this tirade. > Unfolding the secrets of humanity in some way? Seems to me, Mark, that > you're interested in attempting to objectify the aesthetic experience. Let's see. To objectify means "to give the status of external or independent reality to that which is in the mind" (Webster's). Sounds like a good definition of what composing is all about. Perhaps we could debate this point (private e-mail of course, especially if it's going to get as nasty as you want to be) > Sutra? All I ask for is acceptance of other ways of experiencing music, > including analysis. And you, the great speaker for humanism (I suppose) > due to some pain in the past with oral boards or what have you, have > decided that it all must go!!! > I have? Oh, so I take it you're a music theorist and you're terribly insulted because I think analysis ought to relate to the aural experience of music and you enjoy it for its own sake. Well, I guess we do have a disagreement here. But if it doesn't bother you that the scores you analyse never get performed then I think we can peacefully coexist. > Your screeds against foundationalism are simply advocations for > re-foundationalism. I suggest reading a little on Nancarrow to see how I guess I have to know what foundationalism is before I can say I'm agin it. > believe it is a good kind of disagreement. Perhaps a good exercise would > be to take your basic vocabulary of qualifying words like 'good' and > 'bad' and then sit down to a sheet of paper, draw a straight line down > the middle, label one side OBJECTIVE and the other SUBJECTIVE and see > what happens. My guess is that the words you use, like 'boredom', will > most likely pile up under the latter. Cheers. Well, every word of your posting sounds ferociously subjective so I'll put them in your latter column along with "boredom". Now if you'll please give me a clear explanation of what the heck you're talking about, minus the name calling, perhaps we can continue the argument. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:35:06 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: christine annette jackson Subject: Re: seq software for pc In-Reply-To: On Mon, 17 Oct 1994, Joe McMahon wrote: > >Our fearless leader on sequencers: > :) > > >Joe, do > >you play any live gigs? > > > Not right now anyway. I have looked over my album and could, with some Hey, Joe.... Speaking of "your album"... Would it be feasible to compile a list of products (albums, CDs, tapes) subscribers to this list have out on the market - either locally, nationally or internationlly? Or maybe there is already such a list that I don't know about? After "listening" to all you guys & gals "talk" :), it would be cool to hear some of the music that has composed... Plus it would give us another avenue to further support each other.... Bambi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:04:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Adamson Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space At 12:12 PM 10/18/94, Arne Claassen ISE wrote: > >That's a question i've been wondering about. After all, digital HD recording >is supposed to give you random access, but RAM will not permit to have all >of your tracks in memory all the time. How does the buffering into RAM work? >Do these programs load as much of the data into RAM as they can or do you >tell it how much to load into RAM or does it just create an overview and keep >all the data on disc until playback? > Another point: Cut & Paste random-access audio (one of the bigger perceived advantages of hard disk recording over ADATs & similar) sounds great in theory ... and the _results_ can be great in practice ... but be prepared to have some patience as your computer shuffles data around on the hard disk when you insert or remove bits of sound ...At least that is my experience in editing large sound files in the past with SoundTools ... I wonder how these multi-track wonders deal with those types of functions. This may work better as long as you have plenty of extra hard disk space for these types of edits ... And even with clever disk management schemes I imagine the software ends up moving alot of data around to avoid too much fragmentation. Still holding onto my analog tape until solid-state random access audio :-) Brian ___________________________________________________________________ R. Brian Adamson Information Technology Division adamson@itd.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Laboratory NRL Code 5523 Washington, DC 20375 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:23:54 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers In-Reply-To: <199410121619.JAA14210@mail.netcom.com> from "Mark G Simon" at Oct 12, 94 12:19:19 pm Mark G Simon writes-- > >My copy of Baker's indicates that Xenakis hasn't done any electronic >pieces in quite a while. Is this true? I think his strong suit is the >sonorities he manages to come up with, and I can imagine he'd be one hell >of a synth programmer. If he wanted to bother, that is. Based on what little I recall of the man's methods and discography, I would venture a guess that he is too well focused on his current means of communicating his ideas to derail his creative process by figuring out why a one-menu-up cursor button push puts you in the VCF parameters page instead of in the global envelope edit page. In other words, he may simply be too smart for modern synthesis. :) This isn't entirely facetious, of course; others have stated similar raesons for steadfastly sticking with old gear. Brian Eno and the DX7, Wendy Carlos and the Synergy/GDS, and a number of examples right here in this mailing list...in this mindset, if something works for you, you use it, rather than wandering off to lose momentum on something that might someday be better. I wish I had that much self-control; on the other hand, I still program my Xpander, which I've had for longer than all my other keyboards put together, more than all my other keyboards put together, so maybe I'm not a totally lost cause yet. :) mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:30:39 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: joe dierker Subject: Re: seq software for pc >On Mon, 17 Oct 1994, Joe McMahon wrote:>After "listening" to all you guys & >gals "talk" :), it would be cool to >hear some >of the music that has composed... Plus it would give us another avenue to >further support each other.... > >Bambi word...get me some of y'all's stuff and we'll recipro.... Joe Dierker. jade@vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:36:24 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: seq software for pc In-Reply-To: <199410181833.LAA06800@mail.netcom.com> from "christine annette jackson" at Oct 18, 94 12:35:06 pm christine annette jackson writes-- > >Hey, Joe.... > >Speaking of "your album"... Would it be feasible to compile a list of >products (albums, CDs, tapes) subscribers to this list have out on the >market - either >locally, nationally or internationlly? Or maybe there is already such a >list that I don't know about? > >After "listening" to all you guys & gals "talk" :), it would be cool to >hear some >of the music that has composed... Plus it would give us another avenue to >further support each other.... If there is such a list, I don't know of it. The Analogue Heaven mailing list maintains an FTP site of general artist information that is compiled from voluntary contributions by members, but I don't know of anywhere where one can simply get a list of titles, artists, comments and sources. Since EMUSIC-L has a large cross-section of widely-published people on board, I have a feeling it would be a rather large and impressive listing, and an considerable undertaking in terms of sheer volume...which is a polite way of saying that I'm not volunteering for the task. ;) ever the partypooper, mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:48:07 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Live sequencing In-Reply-To: <199410171921.MAA26897@netcom15.netcom.com> from "Paul Schuh" at Oct 17, 94 03:18:46 pm Paul Schuh writes-- > >Bill Fox once said: > >> I don't want to lug around a computer to gigs. That's both an economic >> and tactical motivation. Economic because of wear and tear (especially >> hard drives) and tactical because of my bad back. > >You can get rack-mount PC's & Monitors, you can even get a slide-out >drawer for the PC keyboard. A simpler and lighter answer would be a laptop PC, of course; with the advent of parallel and serial multiport interfaces like MOTU's and Key's, something as small and light as a Contura Aero can provide a full sequencing package with no loss of utility. It's worth noting, though, that this is an elegant but costly approach. For my upcoming live work, I am taking a multilevel approach to prepared materials, ranging from the possibility of DATs (for very complex "bridging" material while I reset my instruments etc.) to simple loops and structures as Standard MIDI Files, played back on my newest toy, a Roland Sound Brush that I recently found used for a pittance and am having a lot of harmless fun with..... Many people have argued back and forth about the 'legitimacy' of music performed with backing tapes; is the audience being cheated of their listening experience somehow? (Ditto for presequenced material.) My approach has been to say that I know how much my brain and hands can do at any one time, and I know how much music is needed to fill out an arrangement that sounds good. If A < B, I am doing my audience a disservice by not providing them with the missing bits somehow. I suppose I could learn to play more and faster, and to redefine my style to allow for everything to be done live with two hands and two feet, but what will my audiences listen to while I'm relearning how to present my music? When I have other musicians to fill in the parts of the arrangement I can't do myself, there is no need for sequences or tapes unless one is attempting to do the physically impossible (which has its own appeal), but alone, I do what the music demands. -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 12:49:59 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: seq software for pc In-Reply-To: <199410171933.MAA28648@netcom15.netcom.com> from "Joe McMahon" at Oct 17, 94 03:34:03 pm Joe McMahon writes-- > >>Our fearless leader on sequencers: > :) Hee hee hee! >. Guess I could punch up some of the covers of >stuff from "Twin Peaks"... (T8, where's a T8? :) ) Working on it, dude, working on it....:) >The other problem is that I'd have to replace the audience between numbers. >Your average "cool-jazz" patron is going to be highly confused by a >Stockhausenesque exploration of the border between sound, motion, and >rhythm... Well, when you're not playing cool jazz, that is. :) -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: RDEWEY@gasou.edu Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was RDEWEY@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU From: Russ Dewey Subject: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? > Could some recommend a synth or sampler that has particularly good > guitar sounds, and/or violin sounds? > > Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 16:40:48 PDT > From: Tapas Das > Subject: Re: Guitar sounds > > I would highly recommend the EMU Proteus FX rack mount unit. > It has a good collection of acoustic/electric guitar samples. > This is a very cost effective unit. Sweetwater sells them for $559. > It comes with 512 sounds and 32 note polyphony and built in effects. > > However, you should go to a music store and check out the following gear > before you decide. > > Rack mounts: > Roland SC88 > Roland JV1080 > Yamaha TG500 > Korg O1R/W > Korg Wavestation SR - has a fabulous lead guitar patch. I'm glad to see this addressed because I've been wondering for a while how I might get a good *distorted electric guitar* sound from synths. I've got several midi guitars (3 actually) and it's fun to try different patches, but I grew up with heavily distorted wall-of-sound type guitar bands (e.g. MC5) and would like to be able to recreate the sound of a soaring or crunching guitar. I've pondered the rackmount SansAmp unit, which gets good reviews...put I've never had a chance to play with one, which makes me wary. The latest Keyboard had a little blurb on RoadPig (?) which apparently creates very realistic guitar sounds with a three-man keyboard band, so I guess it is possible. Does anybody have any recommendations for equipment to create that classic loud, distorted, guitar lead sound...without it sounding thin and artifical like so many effects units? Russ Dewey Psychology Department Georgia Southern University rdewey@gasou.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:12:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, atomic city wrote: > Mark G Simon writes-- > > > >My copy of Baker's indicates that Xenakis hasn't done any electronic > >pieces in quite a while. Is this true? I think his strong suit is the > >sonorities he manages to come up with, and I can imagine he'd be one hell > >of a synth programmer. > > If he wanted to bother, that is. Based on what little I recall of the > man's methods and discography, I would venture a guess that he is too > well focused on his current means of communicating his ideas to derail > his creative process by figuring out why a one-menu-up cursor button > push puts you in the VCF parameters page instead of in the global > envelope edit page. In other words, he may simply be too smart for > modern synthesis. :) He would also, no doubt, be able to get someone to program the synth for him, since he could probably describe the sound he wanted in mathematical detail. This is not a criticism. I wish I could do such a thing. I did finally get around to pulling out my recording of Xenakis' Bohor I last week. It sounded exactly as I'd remembered it. Certainly very intense. The one thing that went through my mind the whole time was: I had this vision of the guy hunched over his splicing block cutting up all these teeeeeny tiiiiiny bits of tape and splicing them laboriously together until he had 20 minutes worth of stuff. My back ached by the time it was over. The liner notes said the sound sources were an assortment of oriental bracelets and a Laotian mouth organ. In order to get that intense "whoosh" at the end he must have spliced those bracelets mighty thinly. Maybe he had an assistant to do the drudgery. I think the piece must lose some of its effect on a home stereo. It was originally done in 8 tracks, and I heard some faint indications that a spatial effect was intended. It needs to be played in a large room. Stravinsky heard Bohor I in this kind of setting and is supposed to have said "If the title could be compressed into one syllable it would accurately describe this piece". (This sounds actually like something Robert Craft would have written). My wife later asked me "What the heck kind of record was that you were listening to? Of all the crazy records you sometimes put on this was absolutely rock bottom!" and she went on from there. Please note that I have personally not said one bad word about Xenakis in this posting. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:11:34 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Phil's MIDI enquiry Hi Phil, as far as I am aware, tther is still only the MIDI 1.0 spec, but it has been widely expanded to cover such things as MIDI time code (MTC), machine control, show control, etc. All the things that are in your copy should still be the same, although different manufacturers implement some things differently. Regards, David. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:31:33 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: MIX bookshelf Louis Pape wrote of the MIX bookshelf. I subscribe to mix and so I have the address. It is: Mix Bookshelf, 6400 Hollis Street, Suite 10, Emeryville CA 94608 U.S.A. Phone Toll-fee (U.S. only) 800-344-5478 or intl# 1-510-653-3307 FAX intl# 1-510-653-5142 Regards, David. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 22:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy J Dallmann Subject: Re: Electronic drumming Hi...I have an electronic drum setup. Although not tied in with my computer yet, I do know what is required. You've got a pretty good investment to make. First of all, practice pads weren't made for electronic drumming. This is the territory of electronic pads like those made by Roland and KAT. These can cost around $90 each, but a good pad will make all thhe difference in the world. If you do get pads, I highly recommend KAT pads over anyone else on the market. If you're on too tight a budget for this kind of investment, you can rig up your practice pads, but you'll need to get some triggers. Triggers are little vibration detectors that can be placed on your pads. They pick up the vibrations and turn them into an electronic signal. Triggers can be had as cheap as $20 to as much as $50. Play with them before you buy or you might be dissapointed. The next problem you need to tackle is how to convert those electronic blips from your pads or triggers into MIDI signals that can be understood by computer software. This requires what is known as a Trigger-to-MIDI interface. Once again, KAT makes several types, including the MIDI-KITI for around $350, up to a DRUMKAT 3.5 for about $800. Roland also makes a good one. I believe it's selling for about the same price as the MIDI-KITI. One advantage for the Roland - it also lets you convert microphone signals from acoustic drums into MIDI signals. Not as much programability though. Once you have the MIDI signal, your computer needs a MIDI interface in order to read them. Most MIDI interfaces for the PC cost around $100. If you get a Sound-Blaster or compatable sound card, a MIDI interface is built in. I believe the Audio-Spectrum sound card also has this ability. If you go with ha sound card, you will still need to get a converting connector, which turns the joystick port of the sound card into a MIDI-IN and MIDI-out connection. There's another advantage to getting a sound card vs a MIDI interface. You won't need a separate sound module. As long as you buy one of the good sound cards that has synthesis on it, you're all set. You just need to use the MIDI mapper in Windows, or a sequencing program, to route the MIDI signals to the sound card, for wonderful rhythms from your computer! Like I said before, this is a hell of an investment. If you have the bucks, a better alternative may be to just buy one of the pre-packaged electronic drum kits from Roland. For about $2000 you have a complete electronic kit ready to go. Anyway, I hope this helps. I'm removing myself from the EMUSIC-L list (too darn much mail in my mailbox), but if you need any further assistance, feel free to contact me at DrummerTim@aol.com or USLEI3VB@ibmmail.com. Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 22:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Help... Hey Folks...I am in quite a stew. Does anyone have a midi file lying around of peter gabriels "In Your Eyes". I just had a disk accident and I cannot recover the file. I have a gig thursday night, and no way to redo the sequence (the keyboardist busted her hand). It would be easier to start from something rather than just from scratch, and then maybe I could piece something together in time, otherwise I'll just cut the tune. Could someone explain to me how to do an archie? perhaps I can find one on an ftp server someplace thanks phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Wheeler Subject: Re: organ pedals (was: your mail) In-Reply-To: <9410181443.AA13389@bigcat.missouri.edu> Hi All, I believe that the Taurus Pedals were originally manufactured by Moog Music. But I'm sure they've been bought out. Not sure if they are even made anymore. I think Roland manufactures MIDI pedals though. ______________________________________________________________ | Jeffrey K. Wheeler | The Secret to | | jwheeler@bigcat missouri.edu | the Universe | | | is @*&%##... | | 3600 E. Hidden Lane | | | Hartsburg, Missouri 65039-9774 U.S.A. | NO CARRIER | -------------------------------------------------------------- "I only know that through music you can reach to God" Ali Akbar Khan On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, Taylor, Nigel wrote: > > I would be very interested if anyone knows of, or has had any > > experience with a MIDI generating, organ pedal board. This > > request is for a friend who is an organist/guitarist and > > wants to combine the two simultaneously!! > > Geddy Lee has used Taurus bass pedals since the mid-seventies, though I've > been unable on numerous occasions to be able to find a contact address or a > supplier for them - anyone know? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <9410181819.AA16330@minerva.cis.yale.edu> Mark S Yes. I know, please forgive my tirades. I responded in a moment of weakness. Let me assure you that, as an analyst/theorist and composer, I have always found the former experience to be one that gels aesthetically. I suppose I am overly sensitive to those who tend to lump the theorists into one clump for dismissal. I found, and still find, some of your comments to be over-generalizations. But I also assure you that I do not in any way feel or think that 'you suck' My apologies, Mark. Sincerely meant. I do believe there are many theorists out there who do in fact 'miss the point'. Not my point, or anyone else's, but their own. Analysis as experience may strike someone as being a rather vague application, but I think that's a good thing. For so long, theorists have attempted to objectively define a piece of music according to some theory. Now, when theory preceeds practice and the trend is towards conceptualism rather than traditionalism, the 'community' often feels threatened. I see it all the time. But I believe sincerely that experiencing music with mind and ear is a beautiful endeavor. Not prioritizing here, just offering another aesthetic facet. I look forward to other communication in the future! And I promise to leave insults out! Best, Scott Mc. mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:32:15 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers In-Reply-To: <9410181927.AA16302@minerva.cis.yale.edu> Xenakis has been writing some electronic music with UPIC at CEMAMu in Paris. This is fairly recent. He does have a predilection for acoustic instruments, however. Check out his MYCENE, the 'score' of which appears on the cover of the new (1991) edition of his FORMALIZED MUSIC. Scott Mc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:28:15 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Gardner Subject: Get it Right! Oi! Greg Taylor i) I repeat - Ferneyhough is NOT Welsh. He was born in Coventry, England. ii) It's *Finnissy*, not Finnissey or Finissey iii) If you want the usual list of NC suspects, journalists usually bunch the following together: from Britain: Ferneyhough, Finnissy, James Dillon [Scottish], Richard Barrett [Welsh] Roger Redgate, Chris Dench and James Erber. from elsewhere: Helmut Lachenmann, Emmanuel Nunes, Alessandro Melchiorre, Klaus K. Hubler, Joel-Francois Durand, Paul Koonce, Jay Alan Yim and Ian Shanahan. The term is only useful as a very rough grab-bag term, because as you get to know some of the music of the above-mentioned, you realise just how differentiated it is, despite obvious similarities and shared concerns - e.g. 'irrational' rhythms and performance difficulty. As far as I know none of the composers mentioned above is particularly happy with the term. I wouldn't be. Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:40:18 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space >Another important aspect is that your sound data should be on a different >physical drive from your application programs and data. If you have them >on seperate partitions you will avoid getting your sound data being >fragmented by applicattion data, but the drive head will still have to >hop between partitions to serve the system needs and to write/read >aduio. This can cause drop-outs for more than two track material. Just partitioning a drive will result exactly in what you mentioned, the disk has to perform a lot of head movements resulting in decreased performance. Therefore: 1) A good solution will be a seperate HD for the audio material. 2) A better solution will be one seperate hard disk per 4 tracks (current drives have their best performance characteristics for 4 track systems). With the newer generation high speed HD's one disk might be enough for eight tracks. This is heavily depending on the HD internal caching, its cache segmentation and size. 3) And finally the best solution will be a seperate SCSI bus for the audio disk drives, like digidesign ProTools does for 8 Tracks and above. >That's a question i've been wondering about. After all, digital HD recording >is supposed to give you random access, but RAM will not permit to have all >of your tracks in memory all the time. How does the buffering into RAM work? >Do these programs load as much of the data into RAM as they can or do you >tell it how much to load into RAM or does it just create an overview and keep >all the data on disc until playback? Both is true, a little RAM will be used for holding an overview of the audio data. The much bigger portion will be used as a buffer. The system loads some data into the buffer, and from that buffer the playback occurs. When the buffer has space inside due its data are played it will be filled up again, even though it was not totally empty. This prevents drop outs in bad case scenarios. On some systems these buffers has to hold hold data for several seconds, on other systems just for half a second. With computer based systems the buffer should be big enough for holding several seconds unless real multitasking OS will be available. Otherwise you will encounter worst case scenarios very often even with 4 tracks. But as a drawback you will get long preload times, the buffers has to be filled and this means mega bytes in some circumstances. Ciao, Stefan <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:09:37 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steve Hills Subject: SoundEdit16 I just got another promotional offer from MacroMind regarding SoundEdit16. How does this compare to buying 16 tracks of audio. Is anyone out there using the computer with sound card/AV on Mac for multime [multi-track] recording? If so, how does it compare to the expensive alternative of 16 tracks of synced ADATs? SHills@kuhyb.[Shills@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:18:10 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrei Zdetovetchi Subject: Pro Audio Spectrum 16 Hi everyone ! I have a Pro Audio Spectrum 16 board and I don't have documentation about it. I don't know how to make programs that use MIDI. I don't have the docs about MIDI or MIDI filespec. If there is anyone can help me, please write me. Thanks. P.S. Oh! My name is Andrei Zdetovetchi (you may call me Andrew or Zdeto) and I'm writing from ROMANIA. I'm a student in the first year at Politehnica Univ. Bucharest. Please excuse my english. See ya ! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:35:28 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers In-Reply-To: <9410182114.AA26062@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 14 X-Sun-Content-Length: 927 There's been a lot of talk about various early practitioners of machine music, including Xenakis and a few others. Let me toss out another name. There is a composer, now very old, named Conlon Nancarrow. He's an expatriate American who's lived in Mexico City for the last 40-50 years. Most of his work has been done for souped-up player pianos. A lot of the technical work is not unlike what sequencer people do. He edits event lists on paper with a puncher. As for the music, this is definitely not pizza-parlor player piano. I don't know exactly how to describe it except that it is dynamic and quite complex. I like it a lot, but have to question my own sanity for liking it. Just before the LP went belly-up, there was a major series of disks released by a small California label. I don't know if those fine recordings have been transferred to CD yet. If you've got adventurous ears, you might give this a listen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:34:36 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Pro Audio Spectrum 16 In-Reply-To: <199410191330.GAA11799@mail.netcom.com> from "Andrei Zdetovetchi" at Oct 19, 94 01:18:10 pm Andrei Zdetovetchi writes-- > >Hi everyone ! > >I have a Pro Audio Spectrum 16 board and I don't have documentation about it. >I don't know how to make programs that use MIDI. I don't have the docs about >MIDI or MIDI filespec. If there is anyone can help me, please write me. > Thanks. > >P.S. Oh! My name is Andrei Zdetovetchi (you may call me Andrew or Zdeto) and >I'm writing from ROMANIA. I'm a student in the first year at Politehnica Univ. >Bucharest. Please excuse my english. Welcome to the list, Andrei. Your English is excellent, better than that of a lot of the Americans on this list. ;) The PAS16 didn't come with any documentation at all? This is highly unusual; I have a friend with one, and as I recall, he said it had a very clear manual. As for MIDI, I guess it would help a bit to know precisely what it is that you are trying to do-- control the PAS16 with MIDI sequences? Integrate it with MIDI instruments? -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:40:56 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Pro Audio Spectrum 16 In-Reply-To: <199410191330.GAA11799@mail.netcom.com> from "Andrei Zdetovetchi" at Oct 19, 94 01:18:10 pm Andrei Zdetovetchi writes-- > >Hi everyone ! > >I have a Pro Audio Spectrum 16 board and I don't have documentation about it. Quick followup after a fast phone call; my friend reports that your PAS16 should have come with software and installation documentation and a copy of Trax, the basic MIDI sequencing package from Passport (handy little program, actually). Did you not get any of this? -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:39:10 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: SoundEdit16 In-Reply-To: <199410191307.GAA07519@mail.netcom.com> from "Steve Hills" at Oct 19, 94 08:09:37 am Steve Hills writes-- > > I just got another promotional offer from MacroMind regarding SoundEdit1 >6. >How does this compare to buying 16 tracks of audio. Is anyone out there using >the computer with sound card/AV on Mac for multime [multi-track] recording? If > so, >how does it compare to the expensive alternative of 16 tracks of synced ADATs? Heavens! I would imagine that to put together a powerful enough computer to do this properly, with the necessary hard disk space and RAM, would be considerably more expensive and annoying than buying two ADATs and a BRC; the latest quote I've seen for such a setup is in the neighborhood of $7000 to $7500 or so. What kind of Mac can that buy you? Enough? mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:49:36 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <199410182108.OAA15586@mail.netcom.com> from "Russ Dewey" at Oct 18, 94 05:13:01 pm Russ Dewey writes-- > >> Korg Wavestation SR - has a fabulous lead guitar patch. I will speak well of the WS's guitar, yes; we used it on our first album. >I'm glad to see this addressed because I've been wondering for a while how >I might get a good *distorted electric guitar* sound from synths. [...] >. Does anybody have any recommendations for >equipment to create that classic loud, distorted, guitar lead >sound...without it sounding thin and artifical like so many effects units? Hmmm. Some folks recommend running a patch through a multi-FX processor specifically set up for guitars, with tube preamping, overdrive, blah blah blah. I find my best results came by running an analog synth like a Chroma Polaris or an Xpander through a Boss DF-2 Distortion/Feedbacker and a Boss BF-2 Flanger. Two little stomp boxes. Cheap but sound GREAT. Then again, I was looking for emotional content, not spot-on accuracy. -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Bohor I and its ability to cause harm In-Reply-To: <199410182111.OAA16241@mail.netcom.com> from "Mark G Simon" at Oct 18, 94 05:12:39 pm Mark G Simon writes-- > >On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, atomic city wrote: > >> [...] In other words, he may simply be too smart for >> modern synthesis. :) > >He would also, no doubt, be able to get someone to program the synth for >him, since he could probably describe the sound he wanted in mathematical >detail. This is not a criticism. I wish I could do such a thing. As do I, and frankly I'm not convinced Xenakis could either. Talking about timbre is like a fish without a bicycle. No, wait. That's not right. Arggh. :) >I did finally get around to pulling out my recording of Xenakis' Bohor I >last week. It sounded exactly as I'd remembered it. Certainly very >intense. The one thing that went through my mind the whole time was: I >had this vision of the guy hunched over his splicing block cutting up all >these teeeeeny tiiiiiny bits of tape and splicing them laboriously >together until he had 20 minutes worth of stuff. My back ached by the >time it was over. The liner notes said the sound sources were an >assortment of oriental bracelets and a Laotian mouth organ. In order to >get that intense "whoosh" at the end he must have spliced those bracelets >mighty thinly. Maybe he had an assistant to do the drudgery. I think the >piece must lose some of its effect on a home stereo. It was originally >done in 8 tracks, and I heard some faint indications that a spatial >effect was intended. It needs to be played in a large room. I have heard it all the way through only once, and that was in stereo on a very loud system with heavy-duty Klipsch speakers that brought the most out of the vinyl. My only thought, like a repeating mantra, was, "I can hear him clinking the bracelets, but where the heck is the Laotian Mouth Organ? It sounds like a thunderstorm with bamboo toothpicks under its fingernails." >Stravinsky heard Bohor I in this kind of setting and is supposed to have >said "If the title could be compressed into one syllable it would >accurately describe this piece". (This sounds actually like something >Robert Craft would have written). What did it say on the liner notes...? I seem to recall, "Toward the piercing angle of the ending, people in the audience were actually screaming in agony...after the concert half loved it and half hated it, which is exactly what Xenakis said he'd wanted." or something like that? >My wife later asked me "What the heck kind of record was that you were >listening to? Of all the crazy records you sometimes put on this was >absolutely rock bottom!" and she went on from there. My roommate and I got hauled up in front of our Dorm Council for playing it all the way through from end to end at high volume. My statement in my defense was essentially, "We are not guilty of anything more than playing our stereo at a sound level frequently enjoyed by others on our hall, who gleefully ignore repeated requests to turn it the f*ck down. I can assure this Council that irrespective of any threatened disciplinary action, if I have to hear [name removed for courtesy's sake] blaring Steely Dan's 'Aja', which we all know by now is the only record he owns, one more time, I can and will counterattack with music that makes today's selection sound like Celtic harp." That was a bluff [1], of course. I have never heard anything that hits harder than Bohor I. [2] >Please note that I have personally not said one bad word about Xenakis in >this posting. Me neither. It's a HELL of a piece of music, tho. Has anyone ever put it on CD? What a wonderful thing to put on infinite loop before going out for the weekend.... FOOTNOTES: [1] But it worked. :) [2] Parts of Lou Reed's 'Metal Machine Music' come close. Lovely stuff! -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:56:20 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Bohor I and its ability to cause harm > > > >He would also, no doubt, be able to get someone to program the synth for > >him, since he could probably describe the sound he wanted in mathematical > >detail. This is not a criticism. I wish I could do such a thing. > > As do I, and frankly I'm not convinced Xenakis could either. Talking about > timbre is like a fish without a bicycle. No, wait. That's not right. Arggh. :) Actually I don't even know if there is a systematic way of describing timbre in verbal or mathematical terms so that a sound could be reconstructed from scratch. I'm certain it would be too complex for me to comprehend, but let's suppose that 500 years from now someone wants to reconstruct your music and all present-day synths have been sold for scrap and all recordings have disintegrated with age, and nobody remembers what oriental bracelets and Laotian mouth organs sounded like, it would be useful to have some sort of 'timbre notation' to work with. > > Me neither. It's a HELL of a piece of music, tho. Has anyone ever put it > on CD? What a wonderful thing to put on infinite loop before going out > for the weekend.... Unless my imagination has run away from me I think I saw that X's Kraanerg has been reissued on CD. From the standpoint of pissing off the neighbors this piece has even more going for it than Bohor I. It goes on for 70 minutes, and now on CD you can listen to it without having to turn the record over. Just think. This is a piece for orchestra with tape, the two playing in alternation, as in Deserts. The tape seems to pick up seamlessly from the orchestra and vice-versa. I came across this piece some time during college. It conjured up all manner of sci-fi images in my mind, alien planets populated by insect-creatures, that kind of stuff. What struck me was how convincingly it seemed to speak from the insects' point of view. Even the time-scale was non-human. I was thinking of buying it, but maybe in the interest of domestic tranquility..... Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:10:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <9410191453.AA04284@ebs330> from "atomic city" at Oct 19, 94 07:49:36 am > >> Korg Wavestation SR - has a fabulous lead guitar patch. > > I will speak well of the WS's guitar, yes; we used it on our first album. Wait, are you telling me that the guitar on "March of the Plastic Ants" is a wavestation? And i always thought that it was some analog beast. More power to the wavestation, i guess. > Hmmm. Some folks recommend running a patch through a multi-FX processor > specifically set up for guitars, with tube preamping, overdrive, blah > blah blah. I find my best results came by running an analog synth like > a Chroma Polaris or an Xpander through a Boss DF-2 Distortion/Feedbacker > and a Boss BF-2 Flanger. Two little stomp boxes. Cheap but sound GREAT. > Then again, I was looking for emotional content, not spot-on accuracy. I'd have to agree with the dedicated effects. My best experience has been with undistortted guitar samples run through a distortion stomp box, and running my Juno through a distortion stomp box. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:03:34 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: SoundEdit16 In-Reply-To: <9410191310.AA02995@ebs330> from "Steve Hills" at Oct 19, 94 08:09:37 am > I just got another promotional offer from MacroMind regarding SoundEdit1 >6. >How does this compare to buying 16 tracks of audio. Is anyone out there using >the computer with sound card/AV on Mac for multime [multi-track] recording? If > so, >how does it compare to the expensive alternative of 16 tracks of synced ADATs? Um... SoundEdit 16 is not a harddisk recording system, per se. It can record digital sound and depending on your hardware even multiple tracks and it can create as many tracks as you want to any file, but it has no syncing facility or anything of the sort. It's mostly a sample editor for multimedia purposes. And i'd say that's what it is good for, since even for simple sample editing required for your sampler, it lacks precision. No loop suuprt (at least not in the last version). Not a very good wave display for minute editing, no numerical control in its processing algorithms (just a slider). All these comments are made on experience with SoundEdit Pro, but i've been told that SoundEdit16's only difference is support for its processing algorithm to work in 16 bit as well as 8 bit. If you want plain vanilla HD recording, check out Deck, for sequencing plus HD recording add Metro to deck, or get one of the combination packages, suich as Studio Vision, Logic Audio, Digital Performer, Cubase Audio, etc. If you want a sample Editor, get Alchemy. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:14:30 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Environmental Systems Research Institute From: Tapas Das Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? > I'm glad to see this addressed because I've been wondering for a while how > I might get a good *distorted electric guitar* sound from synths. The distorted sound that a lead guitarist gets is by overdriving their tube amps and using an assortment of distortion/sustain/chorus/phasing pedals. It is very hard to emulate all the thumb, picking, sliding, snapping and finger movements that a lead guitarist would do to make their guitar sing, wail, screetch and scream. As a keyboardist, you are likely to own/use a solid state amp. You can't overdrive your solid state amp. They do not start generating weird harmonics and take up a special character like overdriven tubes do. They simply sound God awefull. So, you are left with only one course of action. All the harmonics and distortion must be handled by highend effect processors before they reach your solid state power amp, and second, you must be able to manipulate 4 or more waveforms in real time to even come close to the infinite variety that a guitarist would generate by his playing style. This leaves you with no choice other than picking up a used Wavestation EX keyboard (around $800), the best vector synth. Set you mod wheel to zero. Set the vector joystick to its center position. Now select the ROM bank, and dial up Performance #4, Mini Lead. Imagine yourself to be the lead guitarist and start wailing away. Give a jab at the mod wheel, try moving the vector joystick to see how it merges the waveforms, hit with a harder velocity, try the aftertouch pressure. You will be impressed. Try RAM1 bank, Performance #4, Lead rock guitar too. If you think, it still sounds a little thin, or needs more grunge, then layer this sound over a Korg 01/W. Bring up program Bank A, #98 Mono Lead-1. Need more depth? Try program Bank B, #98 Mono Lead-2. Need more attack? Try program Bank B, #42, Lead Stab-1. You may be perfectly happy with the sound you get by layering the Wavestation's Mini Lead over the 01/W's Lead Stab-1. For better realism, try detuning one a few cents relative to the other, and set the panning as 6:4 on one, and 4:6 on the other. OK, so now we have the basic sound. How about the effects? For this application the BEST effect box is the Ensoniq DP/4. While I will not recommend this for your final mixdown reverb (the Lexicon 300 still reigns supreme), this will give you a very cost effective solution to the sound you are looking for. This has 400 presets. Dial up ROM, preset number 69, Monster lead guitar. Try also ROM, preset number 68, Metal master guitar. Try also RAM, preset number 22, Ultra Wide Guitar. The results may just surprise you. However, even with this arsenal, don't expect to compete with a real guitar player blasting away through his stack of 6' Marshals. The above gear/configuration is not the only/best solution. It is just meant as a starting point in your experimentation and to showcase what can be done by simply dialling up the factory presets without any programming whatsoever. Unless you have a starting point, you will be lost in a sea of synthesizers, presets and effect processors. Tapas Das. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:23:41 CDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bob Crispen Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? Tapas Das sez: >As a keyboardist, you are likely to own/use a solid state amp. You can't >overdrive your solid state amp. Quibble mode on: Yes you can. >They do not start generating weird harmonics >and take up a special character like overdriven tubes do. They simply sound >God awefull. True, but only IMHO, and apparently yours. Some folks actually like the shattering-glass-like sound of transistor amps. How else to explain Sugar's new CD? There have been several articles in EE Times about a new transistor amp design that is alleged to replicate the sound of an overdriven tube amp. I haven't heard it, but please recall that Marshall claimed that their Valvestate amp sounded exactly like a tube amp, too. +-------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen | Music should not be held responsible | | crispen@foxy.hv.boeing.com | for the people who listen to it. | +-------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:25:27 CDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Kevan L. Moore" Subject: FX needed for a night Hello all. A friend of mine in Birmingham (I'm in Huntsville, AL) is putting together a horror house for Halloween. He's asked me if I knew how to get a 'computer' voice. (piece of cake: any pitch shifter > 1 octave, maybe a ring modulator, delay). The only problem is, I don't have any of that. I've looked around town & in Birmingham checking with old friends in music stores to see if they could rent me something for the night of the 31st. So far I've got a pitch-shifter-ONLY for $25. Anybody interested in letting a total stranger rent an effects box? You could hold my DX7 (vintage, 2nd in Birmingham) for ransom. :-) I'm not interested in spending more than $40. anyone? anyone? kevan l moore ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:32:37 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <199410191619.JAA04240@mail2.netcom.com> from "Arne Claassen ISE" at Oct 19, 94 11:10:33 am Arne Claassen ISE writes-- > >> I will speak well of the WS's guitar, yes; we used it on our first album. > >Wait, are you telling me that the guitar on "March of the Plastic Ants" is >a wavestation? And i always thought that it was some analog beast. More power >to the wavestation, i guess. I am indeed. The solo on "March" is in fact the Wavestation; I think it's the "ZZ Lead" preset (as opposed to the "Mini Lead" suggested by Tapas), altered slightly for better control of pitch bend and harmonics. The solo was actually overdubbed three times, with three different players adding their own playing styles and licks to the soup. The early part of the solo was done by Nick Rothwell in a nice straight-ahead style, and the violinish licks with the meanderings all the way down into the ultra-bass registers were Carl Brenner's. However, the last half of the solo was done by Dan Barrett, controlling the WS from the keyboard of his beloved Matrix-12, and it's he who provided the lovely highspeed licks and tasty bendwork that's fooled several guitarists who should have known better. How did we edit the three solo sequences together? We didn't! We played back all three soloes at once, fed them all to the WS simultaneously, and made its poor overworked CPU decide how to deal with three conflicting MIDI streams. We liked the result so we kept it. :) Our next project will have a lot more multitrack and a lot less MIDI, so happy accidents like this one will be more rare, but I'm sure we'll come up with other weirdnesses.... Oh, the WS was only used on that one track and a little bit on "Netstrophonie" (we have all signed a Just Say No To Chiffy Kalimba pledge for all future projects, you'll be happy to learn). The leads on the other pieces were provided by the Prophet T8, Prophet VS, and of course the Xpanders. No external fuzzboxes applied (or needed :) mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:35:24 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <199410191810.LAA24228@mail2.netcom.com> from "Tapas Das" at Oct 19, 94 11:14:30 am Tapas Das writes-- > >So, you are left with only one course of action. All the harmonics and >distortion must be handled by highend effect processors before they >reach your solid state power amp, and second, you must be able to manipulate >4 or more waveforms in real time to even come close to the infinite variety >that a guitarist would generate by his playing style. > >This leaves you with no choice other than picking up a used Wavestation EX Actually, any vector synth can do this if treated right. My Prophet VS does some horrific noises along these lines, and I have a side bet going that I can create a useful guitar lead with a Yamaha SY35 through a Boss SE50....:) -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:55:26 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay Subject: Timbral notation and extreme reactions to music Mark G Simon writes-- > >Actually I don't even know if there is a systematic way of describing >timbre in verbal or mathematical terms so that a sound could be >reconstructed from scratch. I'm certain it would be too complex for me to >comprehend, but let's suppose that 500 years from now someone wants to >reconstruct your music and all present-day synths have been sold for >scrap and all recordings have disintegrated with age, and nobody >remembers what oriental bracelets and Laotian mouth organs sounded like, >it would be useful to have some sort of 'timbre notation' to work with. > I think this is a question that has come up a lot over the years in this forum, along with the more general idea of notating synth performances to begin with (anyone remember the back covers of albums by M. Frog Labat, Tangerine Dream, and Klaus Schulze, tht depicted their bizarre notations on graph paper?). The answer appears to be that there is nothing approaching a consensus, and no perceived need for consensus, on the topic as yet. Which means that our music may in fact be the first to be rendered unrepeatable.... >I was thinking of buying it, but maybe in the interest of domestic >tranquility..... Never let your spouse dictate your tastes in anything (except perhaps choice of sexual partners). If she doesn't like it, use headphones. My wife refuses to let me play Steve Roach in the house, even his old stuff when he was still fairly listenable; she claims, and I have independently proven in blind studies, that anything he's ever recorded instantly gives her a headache, regardless of playback volume. It doesn't matter which album, Roach knocks her flat; and no one else does. (Her success rate at spotting his stuff is 100% as of now.) I haven't figured out what causes this yet, but it must be marketable.... mike -- mike metlay | *** Words of Wisdom from Team Metlay #118: *** atomic city | "I finally got a good demo of Max. Okay. So everything p.o.box 81175 | I've ever done up to now is wrong. I need to get Max pgh pa 15217-0675 | and start all over. From scratch!" atomic@netcom.com | --Steve "Not Roach" Verity ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:54:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: The Complexitee Nouveau is in... In-Reply-To: <01HIF0E81NYQ9EIE3N@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, Greg Taylor wrote: > > No. I'm pretty sure the term originates with the Brit press. It's probably > an alternative to coming up with a term which doesn't locate itself over > and against minimalism in quite as direct a fashion. Beyond Ferneyhough, > I think you could also group Michael Finnissey and Magnus Lindberg and > > I think they're an acquired taste which I've only imperfectly acquired. I'm (above excerpt very much edited) Thanks for the in depth explanation/examples, Greg! Whenever I find some spending money, I will attempt to locate some of the releases and see if the taste might be acquired. (Of course, if you have the time/desire I certainly would not mind paying for a sampler tape or the likes...) Regards- -Thad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:01:23 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <9410191837.AA07460@ebs330> from "atomic city" at Oct 19, 94 11:32:37 am > How did we edit the three solo sequences together? We didn't! We > played back all three soloes at once, fed them all to the WS > simultaneously, and made its poor overworked CPU decide how to deal > with three conflicting MIDI streams. We liked the result so we kept > it. :) Our next project will have a lot more multitrack and a lot less > MIDI, so happy accidents like this one will be more rare, but I'm sure > we'll come up with other weirdnesses.... So there is life after the Solina (i think that's it) session? But i'm sorry to hear that you'll play less with MIDI, i'm rather fond of MIDI weirdness :) > Oh, the WS was only used on that one track and a little bit on > "Netstrophonie" (we have all signed a Just Say No To Chiffy Kalimba > pledge for all future projects, you'll be happy to learn). The leads > on the other pieces were provided by the Prophet T8, Prophet VS, and > of course the Xpanders. No external fuzzboxes applied (or needed :) So Loremaire was not WS? I'd assumed that part of it was considering Nick's apparent affinity for it. Also was the lead on Hinge of Fate the Xpander? I just love that patch. Kind of has a feel of a resonating steel piper as a sound carrier. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:20:49 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: seq software for pc >I don't want to lug around a computer to gigs. Not even a laptop machine? A PowerBook running MAX is smaller and lighter than any of the rest of the units I use on stage. >I'm using a Roland MC50 >sequencer. A lot lighter than a computer and much more rugged. Like I said... I think an MC50 is bigger than a PowerBook 100, and a lot less powerful... Software reliability? Aye, there's the rub, but I've had no problems with OMS and MAX during performance, and the amazing power and flexibility is worth the effort. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:21:11 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: seq software for pc >I have looked over my album and could, with some >judicious muting of tracks, easily transform the diskette that holds the >album into a live-performance set, opening it up to allow me to play solos >in the appropriate places. Been there, done that, got the security pass. I quickly got very disillusioned to playing along to any kind of backing material (sequenced or tapes): you're stuck with the playing length and can't control or improvise except for the things that you've decided beforehand are live ... and it just feels wrong, at least to me. But by all means, try it. I think a lot of it depends on the musical material, and on whether the backing tracks sound like they should have been played live or not. My drawback is that I cannot compose multitrack music for listening which I can then perform; sequenced music and performed music is very different. (For live work I don't really compose music at all, I build systems.) I would like to get the orchestration of multitrack-style music with the interaction of live performance; that's what I'm really at, but it's difficult. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:32:48 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: krikawa Subject: trick or treat - smell my beat! I thought I'd relate my tricks 'n treats in recent years: I love kids, but I love scaring the shit out of 'em on Halloween in a much bigger way. I used to mike up a delay (old Digitech RDS 3.2 15kHz thing, 3 seconds or so) and screech horrific cries of cackling terror into with max. feedback until I was satisfied with the overlays.... fripperhorrortronics?. When the doorbell would ring my wife, Lisa, opened the door and I would slowly increase the volume to a reasonable level, then come forth and dish out candy. Last year I got my sampler so I did a full-on sound effect thing which worked very well. I dialed up a bunch of SFX of those cheesy CD's and stored them in the sampler, then wrote a sequence so I wouldn't be tied to the rack for the impending fun. My L mixer line went to a small Gorilla amp out in the front yard (camouflaged) and the R went to another amp and R speaker in the living room, right near the door. When we could see the creatures coming up the walk I hit a key on the keyboard to start the sequence (monitor off to keep it dark), with a few measures of silence programmed in. Wind and distant howls would start in the yard speaker, then I'd get behind the door and slowly open it from behind after they rang the bell. The sequence started off with a R-speaker 22 second creaking door sound followed by cackles, wind, rain, dogs, elephants (way cool an octave down) etc. spotted with some pipe organ. I tried to nicely arrange it so it wouldn't be too overbearing throughout its course. As the beasts started to leave, I'd run around to the spare room and heckle them with a mike, some distortion and a little delay into the yard speaker for a personal touch (Yeah a harmonizer woulda been nice). It was well received, except I overheard a woman with her children on the street say 'no, it's OK honey, we won't go to that one'. This year I want to add a mic hidden at the door running to the 3.2 second delay, so that if they say anything as they leave, they'll hear it as they pass the yard speaker. I highly recommend this activity. Having to think about the L/R mix (it was really like separate channels) and sequence of events was a nice exercise. A couple of glasses of wine and Lisa and I were stammering with tears of laughter after some of the kids left. The kids really seemed to enjoy it. They are wonderful and brought a lot of Halloween spirit back to us. Krik out. _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:01:26 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tsachalinas Kostas Subject: Re: organ pedals In-Reply-To: <01HIGGAKDEPE000032@GRGBOX.FORTHNET.GR> On a KORG 1987 pamphlet I read: " MPK-130 MIDI PEDAL KEYBORD 562(W) x 447(D) x 111(H) mm * 6.9 kg " As I can see on the foto, it's an one-octave ( C-C ) instrument. Cheers, Kostas Tsachalinas tsax@skiathos.physics.auth.gr ktsachal@athena.auth.gr Macedonia Thessaloniki (Salonica) GREECE ------------------------------------------------------ Thessaloniki, cultural capital city of Europe, 1997 ------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:14:41 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: SoundEdit16 In-Reply-To: <01HIGCBIONDU9EJ721@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Steve Hills wrote: > I just got another promotional offer from MacroMind regarding SoundEdit16. > How does this compare to buying 16 tracks of audio. Is anyone out there using > the computer with sound card/AV on Mac for multime [multi-track] recording? If > so, > how does it compare to the expensive alternative of 16 tracks of synced ADATs? > > SHills@kuhyb.[Shills@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu] > On a related note, how does SoundEdit 16 (or for that matter the "Pro" version) compare to Deck II on the Mac? I'm considering either as a cheaper alternative to Logic Audio.... -thad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:56:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: SoundEdit16 In-Reply-To: <01HIGJ0F4YXU9EKCG3@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Arne Claassen ISE wrote: > > Um... SoundEdit 16 is not a harddisk recording system, per se. It can record > digital sound and depending on your hardware even multiple tracks and it can > create as many tracks as you want to any file, but it has no syncing facility > or anything of the sort. It's mostly a sample editor for multimedia purposes. > > And i'd say that's what it is good for, since even for simple sample editing > required for your sampler, it lacks precision. No loop suuprt (at least not > in the last version). Not a very good wave display for minute editing, no > numerical control in its processing algorithms (just a slider). > > All these comments are made on experience with SoundEdit Pro, but i've been > told that SoundEdit16's only difference is support for its processing algorithm > to work in 16 bit as well as 8 bit. > > If you want plain vanilla HD recording, check out Deck, for sequencing plus HD > recording add Metro to deck, or get one of the combination packages, suich > as Studio Vision, Logic Audio, Digital Performer, Cubase Audio, etc. > > If you want a sample Editor, get Alchemy. > > -- > Arne F. Claassen > Well thanks to Arne my previous question concerning a comparison between DECK II and Soundedit 16 was "preanswered"! Sorry about the wasted bandwidth... I'd like to follow up on the above reply, however. My impression is that in comparing Logic Audio with the Deck II/Metro combo, Logic Audio wins hands down. Are there any features of Deck II/Metro which would change this impression (that Logic Audio can not do)? Also, I thought I read a thread on this list a while back criticizing Alchemy as very much bug riddin...if this is the case, any body have suggestions for a superior sample editor without major bugs? Now that I am thinking about it, does not Logic Audio (and for that matter the Deck II/Metro combo) have a sample editor? How do these stand up in comparison to stand alone editors? -thad ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: Mail failure In-Reply-To: <2EA5A967@huachuca-emh3.army.mil> > > On Tue, 18 Oct 1994, Greg Taylor wrote: > > > > > No. I'm pretty sure the term originates with the Brit press. It's probably > > an alternative to coming up with a term which doesn't locate itself over > > and against minimalism in quite as direct a fashion. Beyond Ferneyhough, > > I think you could also group Michael Finnissey and Magnus Lindberg and > > > > I think they're an acquired taste which I've only imperfectly acquired. I'm > (above excerpt very much edited) Thanks for the in depth explanation/examples, Greg! Whenever I find some spending money, I will attempt to locate some of the releases and see if the taste might be acquired. (Of course, if you have the time/desire I certainly would not mind paying for a sampler tape or the likes...) Regards- -Thad ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 04:12:45 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers In-Reply-To: <9410191350.AA14986@minerva.cis.yale.edu> On Nancarrow Yes! I know and a am a big fan of his music!! One fellow up here who runs the Computer Music Lab believes Nancarrow could have saved himself a lot of time if he had the computer chops. Is Nancarrow still alive? If so, does he still punch out piano rolls, or does he use a computer? I don't know. I think Nancarrow's conception of the music would have been different if he availed himself of technology. I tend to believe the actual act of punching out piano rolls has something to do with the conception of his musical ideas. Thoughts? Scott Mc. mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:11:00 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jose Manuel Adan Subject: Congratulations Hello everybody. Well, I am in the internet email since a few days and in this emusic and synth list. Let me say, that before this experience, I thougt that almost nobody in this world is able to help anyone without getting profit. Listening the dayly world news, it seems that one day we will eat each other between the countries. In this list I am surprised that everybody try to help to everybody or to have a conversation without asking who is in the other side of the line or what colour is his skin,or asking what profit are you going to get. Well, my opinion of the world is getting better after my experience in internet, and in this list in particular. Congratulations to all of you! Jose ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:32:35 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Gardner Subject: Nancarrow Michael Carnes wrote, re Conlon Nancarrow.: > I don't know if those fine recordings >have been transferred to CD yet. If you've got adventurous ears, you might >give this a listen. Yes these have been released on the German Wergo label. I don't have the catalogue numbers to hand, but would also recommend the RCA CD of Nancarrow works played by the wonderful Ensemble Modern under Ingo Metzmacher. This CD, (RCA 09026 61180 2) includes 11 studies for player piano arranged for the ensemble by Yvar Mikhashoff. Check it out! Jim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:31:55 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Abel Subject: DX27's value? Subject: Time: 9:24 AM OFFICE MEMO DX27's value? Date: 10/20/94 I have a friend who is trying to sell a Yamaha DX27. We don't know how much it is worth. It is in excellent condition. Could anybody give me an idea of what he should be selling it for. thanks in advance. paul.abel@ac.hillsdale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers >Is Nancarrow still alive? If so, does he still punch out piano rolls, or >does he use a computer? Yes and he still uses his punch. His reason is that he feels that the subtle rhythmic things that he does would suffer from the logical equivalent of sampling errors, since he uses unusual odd divisions of the beat. >I don't know. I think Nancarrow's conception of the music would have >been different if he availed himself of technology. I tend to believe >the actual act of punching out piano rolls has something to do with the >conception of his musical ideas. Yes. There was an interview in Keyboard in the last year or two in which that's exactly what he said. --- Joe M. -- "Don't be absurd. We're scaring the locals with music for fun, not profit." (Lord Cthulhu, in Savage Henry #1) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:09:55 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: irritating the spouse actually, my wife has a 100% headache-response factor to anything by thelonius monk, regardless of performer or arrangement. truly amazing. <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:22:30 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Timbral notation and extreme reactions to music On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Mike Metlay wrote: > Mark G Simon writes-- > > > >Actually I don't even know if there is a systematic way of describing > >timbre in verbal or mathematical terms so that a sound could be [etc.] > I think this is a question that has come up a lot over the years in > this forum, along with the more general idea of notating synth [etc.] > for consensus, on the topic as yet. Which means that our music may in > fact be the first to be rendered unrepeatable.... My thoughts on timbre notation were prompted by, besides Xenakis, another recent thread which touched on the impermanence of synths. Someone was speculating on how long it would take for the sound of the Morpheus to become overused, and therefore passe. The time scale was something along the lines of a few years, in the opinion of the poster. How sobering to think that your music, which is tied to the sounds your machines are capable of making is going to disappear when those machines go out of fashion. Classical music types like me are hung up on permanence. I guess the only thing to do is commit yourself to disc now, if you can, and hope the medium holds up. Ars longa, syntha brevis. > > Never let your spouse dictate your tastes in anything (except perhaps > choice of sexual partners). If she doesn't like it, use headphones. True. Generally, I regard my wife as a representative of my ideal audience, i.e., one made up of intelligent non-musicians. If I write something and she likes it then I can feel confident that my theoretical audience will like it. If she doesn't, I might say "well, she'll come around eventually", as I often do, and she often does. If she doesn't then I might try to figure out what it is that turns her off and then decide if it's something I can change without compromising my original idea. She's not going to stop me from listening to Xenakis if I feel like it, however I'm not likely to find it worth the while to emulate Xenakis in my own music. I'm presently working my way through the Arditti Quartet's Xenakis CD, which I borrowed from a friend. I've got to say, so far, that either I prefer Xenakis as an electronic composer over Xenakis as a chamber music composer, or my tastes have changed in such a way that I can still enjoy the things I liked 20 years ago but will accept no new works in the same style. Probably a little of both. Overall, my CD money would probably be better spent on Nancarrow discs rather than Xenakis. My wife may not like Nancarrow any better, but I might. Since he's started to get better known, he's started writing music for live performers again. A score of a String Quartet no. 3 by him, of recent vintage, has crossed my desk here at the library. I have not heard any Nancarrow, so that gives me another reason to spend money on him rather than Xenakis. If someone wants to make recommendations I'm all ears. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:30:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: FNELSON@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU Subject: Computer Music Job at Oberlin *******PLEASE CIRCULATE******* NOTICE OF FACULTY VACANCY IN ELECTRONIC AND=20 COMPUTER MUSIC The Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College invites=20 applications for a continuing, full-time, tenure-track, position in= =20 the Technology in Music and Related Arts (TIMARA)=20 Department beginning in the 1995-96 academic year. =20 The Conservatory of Music is America=D5s oldest school dedicated=20 to the training of professional musicians. Founded in 1865, it=20 was the first college-affiliated conservatory in the United States. = =20 Its students are enrolled in undergraduate programs leading to=20 the Bachelor of Music in performance, composition, music=20 education, music history, historical performance, electronic and=20 computer music, and jazz studies; graduate programs leading to=20 a master of music in conducting, historical performance, or=20 opera theater; master of music education; or master of music in=20 teaching. Performance and artist diplomas are also offered. The= =20 Conservatory and College have earned national reputations of=20 excellence based upon the quality of the student body (drawn=20 =66rom every state in the union and abroad), fine faculty, and=20 excellent facilities. The TIMARA Department offers a four-year curriculum leading=20 to a Bachelor of Music degree in electronic and computer music. =20 There are two full time teaching faculty, a full time music=20 engineer, and a part time teacher of studio recording. There are= =20 25-30 majors. The individual appointed will have general responsibility for and= =20 will perform the following specific duties: 1. Teach courses in analog and digital sound synthesis,=20 computer music software, multi-track recording=20 technique, and other areas related to multimedia. 2. Teach composition focusing on technological media. 3. Participate in committees, meetings and activities of the=20 TIMARA Department and the Conservatory of Music. 4. Advise students on artistic, academic, and career matters. Qualifications include: 1. A doctorate in composition or computer music with a=20 body of compositions and research that represents a=20 substantial engagement in the creation of new works. 2. Demonstrated experience and achievement in digital and=20 analog signal processing, sound synthesis, and computer=20 programming. 3. Experience with interactive computer music systems and=20 digital instruments in composition and performance. 4. Experience with computer graphics, animation, and=20 video techniques. 5. Teaching experience in electronic and computer music. 6. A commitment to electronic and computer music as the=20 principal focus of a professional career in musical=20 composition. Interested persons should submit credentials to Karen L. Wolff,=20 Dean, Oberlin College Conservatory of Music, Oberlin, Ohio=20 44074. All credentials should be received by November 15,=20 1994 to ensure consideration. Those received after that date will= =20 be considered until the position is filled. The appointment will= =20 be made at the rank of Assistant or Associate Professor. Salary=20 will be commensurate with experience and qualifications. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizer ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 14 X-Sun-Content-Length: 927 >There's been a lot of talk about various early practitioners of machine >music, including Xenakis and a few others. Let me toss out another name. >There is a composer, now very old, named Conlon Nancarrow. He's an >expatriate American who's lived in Mexico City for the last 40-50 years. He claims he was kicked out of the US after the Spanish Civil War >Most of his work has been done for souped-up player pianos. There not "souped up", they're just the kind he was able to find. > A lot of >the technical work is not unlike what sequencer people do. He edits >event lists on paper with a puncher. By hand, I might add. >As for the music, this is definitely not pizza-parlor player piano. I >don't know exactly how to describe it except that it is dynamic and quite >complex. The reason he chose the player piano was because it was the only way he could those complex rhythms performed at the time. Some of his latest works have been for other instrumental ensembles. >I like it a lot, but have to question my own sanity for liking it. Just >before the LP went belly-up, there was a major series of disks >released by a small California label. I don't know if those fine recordings >have been transferred to CD yet. they have. > If you've got adventurous ears, you might give this a listen. agreed I've heard rumours that he's suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Anyone out there know if this is true? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 15:21:46 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Colin T. Smith" Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space In-Reply-To: TCPG1:BOPS:VOA's message <18-Oct-94 15:09:04 EDT> >This may work better as long as you have plenty of extra hard disk space >for these types of edits ... And even with clever disk management schemes >I imagine the software ends up moving alot of data around to avoid too much >fragmentation. In hard disk recording/editing, when you make an edit (and this is on any decent DAW) your original sound file is never touched, it is not cut, spliced, pasted or anything like that. It plays back via an EDL (edit decision list) which is just a set of pointers which instucts the computer where to in the file(s) to play from. This cuts done on the fragmentation and does not take up any extra disk space. The rest is accompished as a result of very fast drives and processors. Some DAW¹s will make a new soundfile, if it has too many overlapping segments trying to play at the same time (this can be a software or hardware limitation), of the overlapping segments for the duration that they are overlapped. It¹s like bouncing tracks together when you run out of tracks but only does so for that amount of time. >That's a question i've been wondering about. After all, digital HD recording >is supposed to give you random access, but RAM will not permit to have all >of your tracks in memory all the time. How does the buffering into RAM work? >Do these programs load as much of the data into RAM as they can or do you >tell it how much to load into RAM or does it just create an overview and keep >all the data on disc until playback? To play directly out of RAM in hard disk recording a lot depends on how fast your hard drive is in conjunction with how much RAM you have. If the access time is too slow or the transfer rate is too slow from your hard drive into RAM you may have trouble playing back more than a track or two at a time. A lot of this has to do with the fragmentation of the disk and a 9 or 8 ms access times really helps. The ability of these machines to playback multiple tracks has a great deal to with the drives being able to keep up with the workload. If the drive is too slow it may not be able to play back all of the tracks or may crash often when it can¹ cut the mustard. Current hard drive technology will only allow you to play back up to but not over 8 tracks from a hard drive, no matter how big it is. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:03:11 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers >On Nancarrow > >Yes! I know and a am a big fan of his music!! One fellow up here who >runs the Computer Music Lab believes Nancarrow could have saved himself a >lot of time if he had the computer chops. > >Is Nancarrow still alive? If so, does he still punch out piano rolls, or >does he use a computer? I think he's still living near Mexico City, at least I did not heard anything else. >I don't know. I think Nancarrow's conception of the music would have >been different if he availed himself of technology. I tend to believe >the actual act of punching out piano rolls has something to do with the >conception of his musical ideas. Maybe, since every tool you use has an impact on your "output". Nancarrow decided to use the pianos since they will never complain about the music he compose. Not like the musician he had worked with. That's something from a Nencarrow CD booklet. His differents types of music are heavily based on the possibilities he can get from the piano rolls. His asynchronous rhythms, different tempos and polyphonics stuff cannot be reproduced by a human being. It is a very technical music, hence a computer might had saved him some work. On the other hand working with real material has a very direct impact on you (When I play a real piano I play it differently than when I play it through a keyboard. Composing on paper will get different results than playing it directly into a computer). The involvement into the modelling process is connected to a feedback loop. Ciao, Stefan <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:03:10 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: SoundEdit16 >I'd like to follow up on the above reply, however. My impression is that >in comparing Logic Audio with the Deck II/Metro combo, Logic Audio wins >hands down. Are there any features of Deck II/Metro which would change >this impression (that Logic Audio can not do)? When you are mainly interrested into the digital audio section DECK is the best to get now. The OSC experience in this area is far ahead of Emagics/Opcode/MoTu or Steinberg. But if your main interrest lays in MIDI go for one of the later packages the MIDI solution of the above quadruple is deeper than Metros. Between the big fours there are also many differences. Before getting into any music sequencer scrap the dirt from the surface and look deeper into it, there are mailing lists for Vision, Performer, Logic and Cubase. Personally I am not allowed to tell you which package you should take (i got my own favourite). I can tell you for now that you're choice might affect your future making music. >am thinking about it, does not Logic Audio (and for that matter the >Deck II/Metro combo) have a sample editor? How do these stand up in >comparison to stand alone editors? Standalone editors are most times superior to intergrated packages, but the they are not that nicely integrated. Ciao, Stefan <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:38:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space Is the ability to record multitrack to hard disk a function of hardware or software. For example, I have a turtle beach multisound card that records dead quiet, but only stereo. Would it be possible, using some sort of software package, to overlay several tracks? phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 20:14:06 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Susan Parkinson-Wiberg Subject: Cultural Heritage Crucial to Development of NII THIS ANNOUNCEMENT IS BEING POSTED TO MULTIPLE ARTS AND HUMANITIES LISTS. PLEASE EXCUSE THE DUPLICATION PLEASE REPOST FREELY. The Getty Art History Information Program The American Council of Learned Societies The Coalition for Networked Information *ANNOUNCEMENT* Date: October, 1994 For Immediate Release: CULTURAL HERITAGE CRUCIAL TO DEVELOPMENT OF INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAYS SAY NATIONAL LEADERS IN NEW REPORT Washington, DC -- An alliance of major humanities and arts organizations has issued a report calling on the federal government to recognize the crucial value of the American people's cultural heritage in planning the National Information Infrastructure (NII). "Humanities and Arts on the Information Highways - a Profile," coincides with the release of a related position paper by the White House Information Infrastructure Task Force at a Council on Competitiveness conference (September 7-8, 1994). The federal paper, "The Information Infrastructure: Reaching Society's Goals," presents strategies for applying information technologies to the cultural sector. The alliance, led by the Getty Art History Information program, the American Council of Learned Societies, and the Coalition for Networked Information, has issued its "Profile" to stimulate and guide response to the Administration's call for public comment. "The coming information highway has the potential to revolutionize the way we study and appreciate our cultural heritage," said Eleanor Fink, director of the Getty Art History Information Program. "Making the complex resources of the humanities and arts accessible on the networks would contribute profoundly to the most difficult technological challenges in computing." The "Profile" is the result of an ongoing process aimed at meeting the urgent need for the humanities and arts to gain a voice in the planning and development of the NII. Created by working groups of nationally recognized experts, the report defines the special challenges and opportunities associated with digitizing cultural heritage information. The "Profile" highlights ways in which a fully interactive and exploratory environment would transform the NII from a link between computers to a link between people. Speaking for the American Council of Learned Societies, president Stanley Katz observed that "Electronic technologies have the potential to transform information from a scarce, inequitably distributed and fragmented commodity into a true public good." Paul Evan Peters, executive director of the Coalition for Networked Information, expressed the hope that "our community-based process -- the "Profile" being the first outcome -- will generate the type of lively and open exchange of visions and needs that the Clinton administration is seeking." With the completion of this landmark document, the alliance plans to expand its base of organizational partners to encompass the full breadth of the cultural heritage sector. # # # (Note: electronic copies of the Profile are available upon request from the Coalition for Networked Information. Electronic copy can be accessed via FTP, Gopher, or the World Wide Web [see below]. Hard copies are available free of charge from Publications, Getty AHIP, 401 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1100, Santa Monica, CA 90401 or . Editors, please note the attached description of the Profile sponsors and names of individuals available for interviews or comment.) To access via FTP URL: ftp://ftp.cni.org/CNI/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.Word.hqx URL: ftp://ftp.cni.org/CNI/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.ps URL: ftp://ftp.cni.org/CNI/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.txt ftp ftp.cni.org login: anonymous [send e-mail address as password] cd /CNI/projects/humartiway get humartiway-rpt.Word.hqx [Microsoft Word - BinHexed] get humartiway-rpt.ps [Postscript] get humartiway-rpt.txt [ASCII text] To access via Gopher URL: gopher://gopher.cni.org:70/00/cniftp/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.Word.hq x URL: gopher://gopher.cni.org:70/00/cniftp/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.ps URL: gopher://gopher.cni.org:70/00/cniftp/projects/humartiway/humartiway-rpt.txt gopher gopher.cni.org Coalition FTP Archives (ftp.cni.org) Coalition Projects (/CNI/projects) Humanities and Arts on the Information Highway (Final Report) To access via WWW URL: http://www.cni.org/docs/humartiway/www/humartiway-rpt.intro.html # # # Sponsors of "Humanities and Arts on the Information Highways - a Profile" The Getty Art History Information Program The Getty Art History Information Program (AHIP), one of six operating programs of the J. Paul Getty Trust, seeks to make art- historical information more accessible to scholars and researchers through the use of advanced computer technology. It does so by promoting common perspectives and standards among international institutions and organizations on projects in four general areas: working to affect policies that will enhance access to electronic information; coordinating vocabularies to facilitate consistent data entry and retrieval; providing bibliographic services; and assembling art historical databases. Among AHIPUs projects are the Art & Architecture Thesaurus, the Art Information Task Force, the Image and Information Standards Initiative, the Bibliography of the History of Art, the Avery Index to Architectural Periodicals, the Provenance Documentation Collaborative, the Witt Computer Index, the Union List of Artist Names, and the Thesaurus of Geographic Names. The Getty Art History Information Program, Director, Eleanor Fink, 401 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1100, Santa Monica, California 90401-1455, (310) 395-1025, ext. 1164, (310) 451-5570 fax, e-mail: efink@getty.edu The American Council of Learned Societies The American Council of Learned Societies (ACLS) is a private non-profit federation of 52 national scholarly organizations. The purpose of the Council, as set forth in its constitution, is "the advancement of humanities studies and the maintenance and strengthening of relations among the national societies devoted to such studies." Included in the program of the Council are awards to individual scholars to advance research in the humanities and humanistic aspects of the social sciences, support for international scholarly research and exchanges; activities concerned with the identification of present and future needs of humanistic scholarship, and planning and development to meet these needs; and organizational functions. In addition, the Council has fiscal and administrative oversight for the Council for International Exchange of Scholars (CIES), which administers the Fulbright program. The American Council of Learned Societies, President, Stanley Katz, 228 East 45th Street, New York, NY 10017-3398, (212) 697-1505, (212) 948-8058 fax, e-mail: snkatz@pucc.princeton.edu The Coalition for Networked Information The Coalition for Networked Information was founded in March 1990 to help realize the promise of advanced networks and high-performance computing for information access and delivery. The Coalition was established by three associations: The Association of Research Libraries (ARL), CAUSE and EDUCOM. ARL is an association promoting equitable access and effective use of recorded knowledge supporting teaching, research and scholarship. CAUSE and EDUCOM are dedicated to introducing, using and managing information technology and related sources in research in general and higher education. The Coalition of Networked Information promotes the creation of access to information resources in networked environments in order to enrich scholarship and enhance intellectual productivity. A Task Force of institutions and organizations able and willing to contribute resources and attention to the mission of the Coalition was created in 1990 and continues to grow. This Task Force now provides a common vehicle by which more than 200 institutions and organizations pursue a shared vision of information management and how it must change in the 1990s to meet the social, educational and economic opportunities and challenges of the 21st century. Members of the Task Force include higher education institutions, publishers, network service providers, computer hardware, software, and systems companies, library networks and organizations, and public and state libraries. The Coalition for Networked Information, Executive Director, Paul Evan Peters, 21 Dupont Circle, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20036, (202) 296-5098, (202) 872-0884 fax, e-mail: paul@cni.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:41:27 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rikhardur H Fridriksson Subject: Re: On choosing electroacoustic music without synthesizers Michael Carnes wrote: > There is a composer, now very old, named Conlon Nancarrow. ... > ... > ... Just before the LP went belly-up, there was a major series of > disks released by a small California label. I don't know if those > fine recordings have been transferred to CD yet. If you've got > adventurous ears, you might give this a listen. The German Wergo label has released his complete Player-Piano music (so far) in five volumes, well, actually two double CDs and one single CD. These are new digital recordings. -- Rikhardur H. Fridriksson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:04:26 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: Re: Timbral notation and extreme reactions to music In-Reply-To: <9410201423.AB20553@minerva.cis.yale.edu> Mark S What is X's String Quartet #3 like? I haven't heard anything about that yet. What is its date? Did Xenakis really stop writing for acoustic instruments at any time in his career? Hasn't he been fairly well known for the last 40 years? I've spent some time with his MISTS, which is on the Arditti disc. It has always struck me as quite beautiful. I spent some time graphing by hand some of the arborescences in his music and, when he sent me his sketches, I found that mostly they fell in line. Xenakis's conception of pitch is essentially spatial, really nice pictures. Very dramatic music.Again, if you can, give me info on this quartet. Best Scott Mc. mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: DiAcoustics Home page Some of you might remember that i posted some info on a program called MIDIRenderer. Since then they've had little review blips in various magazines, including Keyboard and Electronic Musician. And now they have a Web Home page, so i thought i'd relay the info: http://www.dacoustic.com/~diac/ Enjoy... -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:08:38 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Pissing off the neighbours Hi folks, since we seem to like to piss off the neighbours, may I suggest either or both of two records by Pop Will Eat Itself: "This is the Day, This is the Hour, This is This" and "Cure For Sanity" (both BMG/RCA). The neighbours will be pissed off more because they'll recognize some resemblence to pop music forms they hate already, like hip hop, dance and heavy metal! Noisemongers unite! Regards, David. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:12:08 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Spouse trouble Hi folks, while we're on the subject of pissing off the neighbours (see my last communique), Pop Will Eat Itself won't advance the cause of domestic bliss _either_! Regards, David. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:13:54 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: trick or treat - smell my beat! What a quaint American custom halloween is! Regards, David. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 18:50:22 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Jeremy W. Johnson" Subject: Simple mic question. I've begun to sample with a standard aural microphone. Unfortuantely, it has an impendance of 300 ohms and a shallow frequency range. Could anybody tell me what a good impendance rating, frequency range, and mic type for sampling mid to low range sound levels. Also, what is XLR and is it nessacary? Thanx in advance, THINICE -ATAXIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:49:03 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Simple mic question. Hello Thinice-Ataxia, most mics are rated (i.e. list their specs) at an impedence of 150 ohms and are set up like this to make them easier to use with gear which expects to see this impedence (I think... someone can correct me). Most mic pre-amps have their noise figures rated at 150 ohms. The frequency range you want for sampling is dependent on your sampling rate, and, 6to a lesser extent, on what you are sampling. If the sound is grundgy with lots of bass and not much high frequency stuff, then a lower sample rate might suffice. For any application, though, a mic with as full a frequency response as you can get, is best. Its response should also be pretty flat so its sound is not added to your sample; only the sound you sample will be the one you get. As a guide, if you sample at 44.1 kHz (same as CD) or 48 kHz (other digital standard), get a mic that goes from at least 40 Hz to 20,000 Hz with no peaks or dips in its response. If your sampler won't sample at more than, say, 32 kHz, then it won't matter if your mic starts to roll off around 15kHz. The formula is as follows: Freq response required = 0.5*f(s) + a little bit more. where f(s) is your sample rate. Are XLRs necessary? If your sampler has XLRs in and decent mic pre-amps, use them. Otherwise, get an outboard mic pre and run line level out of it into your sampler. XLRs allow for a 'balanced' connection, which gives better protection against hum, RF noise, etc. However, running line level unbalanced intoi your sampler shouldn't be too bad because, being a higher level signal, it will better mask any noise than a mic level signal. Most low cost samplers have rotten unbalanced mic pres, so get an outboard mic pre with phantom power so you can use a condenser mic (much quieter and more sensitive than a dynamic). A good low cost mic pre is the Symetrix SX202. There are similar units made by dbx and, I believe, Valley People, and probably a number of others. A good mic would be an AKG C1000 or even those little Nakamichi electrets. They are not too expensive. On the other hand, if the sky's the limit, go for broke and buy a Focusrite mic pre and a couple of Neumanns! Good luck, David. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:43:14 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Garza Subject: Electronic Drumming I could really use some help with the following problem--I own a set of practice pads and a 386 PC. I would like to know what setup can be used to connect the practice pads to my computer so that I can: 1) practice with headphones; 2) sample sounds; 3) modify sounds that I have sampled. I don't have a soundcard yet and could use some suggestions about that. A ballpark dollar amount would also be very helpful. Thanks very much! David Garza ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:47:32 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Taylor, Nigel" Subject: Abolish MIDI now Isn't it about time that boring old serial MIDI is scrapped and replaced by a faster, parallel link with a wide data bus? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 07:59:53 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Magnus Barber Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <"1431 Fri Oct 21 07:51:37 1994"@bnr.co.uk> Sure! Faster communication between sequencer and synth would be great! But think of all us out here stuck with the old MIDI-type connectors......it would be well expensive just to renew all our equipment. And for that reason any change to a faster interface will probably take a while to implement. Sad but true magnusb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:32:38 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <01HIIQN96KUA9BW1FU@asu.edu> from "Taylor, Nigel" at Oct 21, 94 08:47:32 am > Isn't it about time that boring old serial MIDI is scrapped and replaced by > a faster, parallel link with a wide data bus? Better yet, fiber. We need a unified protocol for fiber that is used for everything, from wans to short links between equipment. Maybe TCP/IP or something close. (How would you like to be reading this on your synthesizer instead of your computer? :-) -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * alternative energy * techno * freedom of information * ARS * ham radio * *** Happy Birthday to the Internet! May it live long and prosper. *** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: STP@CNMAT.CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Re: Quest for literature (Editor's Note: Computer Music Journal 17:3 (1993)--LONG) In-Reply-To: wpruett 's letter of: 94 Sep 12 Hello all, In response to Shlomo Dubnov's query, I thought I'd distribute the Computer Music Journal's annotated computer music bibliography. It appeared in CMJ 17:3 (Fall, 1993) and is also available on the Internet and World-Wide Web from mitpress.mit.edu:/pub/Computer-Music-Journal/EdNotes/Bibliography.t. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Editor's Note: Computer Music Journal 17:3 (1993) The Basic Computer Music Library Stephen Travis Pope Computer Music Journal P. O. Box 9496 Berkeley, California 94709 USA electronic mail: stp@CNMAT.Berkeley.edu Developing an annotated bibliography and diskography of the seminal printed and recorded works of the computer music literature will be the topic of this and the next CMJ Editor's Notes. The editor developed a draft list, and circulated it for comment. Additions and annotations to this first round were provided by (in alphabetical order) Roger Dannenberg, Giovanni DePoli, Guy Garnett F. Richard Moore, Curtis Roads, Bill Schottstaedt, and Julius Smith. It is hoped that this list can serve as a valuable resource for the field, and that it will continue to grow, both in the references cited, and their annotations. The text of this list can be retrieved by anonymous Internet file transfer (ftp) from the directory pub/cmj on the network server ccrma-ftp.stanford.edu. A taxonomy of our field can be informally derived from the tables of contents of the Proceedings of the International Computer Music Conferences, from Deta Davis' excellent and valuable bibliographies (see below), or from the ICMA Source Book (see below). The current outline of this bibliography is: Music Theory and Composition with Computers Acoustics, Psychoacoustics, and Music Perception Mathematics and Digital Audio Signal Processing Computer Music Software Technology MIDI and Real-Time Event Processing Anthologies of the Computer Music Literature The Computer Music Library Starter Kit =========================================================================== ====================A Basic Computer Music Bibliography===================== =========================================================================== Music Theory and Composition with Computers Painter, J et al. eds. 1992. "Companion to Contemporary Musical Thought." (in two volumes). London: Routledge. A huge work with over 30 essays from the leading composers and theorists of our time; many computer-music related contributions. Roads, C. ed. 1985. "Composers and the Computer." Madison, Wisconsin: A-R Editions. A collection of interviews with nine of the most important composers of computer music. Haus, G. ed. 1993. "Music Processing", A-R Editions. Essays on computer music theory and practise by a number of experts in the field. Emmerson, S. ed. 1986. "The Language of Electroacoustic Music." Macmillan. Composing and listening to electroacoustic music. Barbaud, P. 1966. "Initiation a la Composition Musicale Automatique." Paris: Edition Dunod. The formal description of this composer's algorithmic composition method; of great historical value. Landy, L. 1990. "What's The Matter with Today's Experimental Music?" London: Harwood Academic Publishers. The premise is that contemporary music suffers from lack of attention. De Poli, G., A. Piccialli, and C. Roads, eds. 1991. "Representations of Musical Signals." MIT Press. Papers on models for music synthesis, with sections on time-frequency representations, granular synthesis, physical models, architectures, and parallel distributed processing. Howell, R., R. West, and I. Cross. 1991. "Representing Musical Structure." Academic Press. Marsden, A. and A. Pople. 1992. "Computer Representations and Models in Music." Academic Press. Two interesting collections covering models and knowledge representation for music, the second of which is more directly concerned with computational representations.. Baroni, M., and Callegari, L. eds. 1984. "Musical Grammars and Computer Analysis." Olschki Publishers. Some of the papers are of only historical significance, but others are still very relevant. Cope. D. 1991. "Computers and Musical Style."A-R Editions. An in-depth discussion of the use of "signatures" in the author's pattern-based composition expert system in Lisp. Acoustics, Psychoacoustics, and Music Perception Pierce, J. R. 1992. (revised edition) "The Science of Musical Sound." W. H. Freeman. Sundberg, J. 1992. "The Science of Musical Sounds." Academic Press. Rossing, T. D. 1990. "The Science of Sound." Addison-Wesley. Three excellent primers on musical acoustics. Backus, J. 1969. "The Acoustical Foundations of Music," New York: W. W. Norton and Co. Benade, A. H. 1990 "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics." New York: Dover Press. The standard texts on musical issues in acoustics. Olson, H. F. 1957. "Acoustical Engineering." Professional Audio Journals. Benson, K. B., ed. 1988. "Audio Engineering Handbook." New York: McGraw-Hill. Two valuable recording and sound engineering text books. Fletcher, N. H. and T. D. Rossing, 1991. "The Physics of Musical Instruments". Springer Verlag. This is especially good for those interested in physical modeling. Roederer, J. G. 1975. "Introduction to the Physics and Psychophysics of Music." Springer Verlag. This one is not to be missed. Sundberg, J. 1987. "The Science of Singing Voice." Northern Illinois University Press. The bible of the voice. Blauert, J. 1983. "Spatial Hearing." MIT Press. Seminal treatment of spatial localization of sound. Deutsch, D. 1982. "The Psychology of Music." Academic Press. A rich collection of papers on all psychological aspects of music perception, performance, and processing. McAdams, S. and I. Deliege. 1990. Music and the Cognitive Sciences, Harwood Academic Publishers. A substantial collection of stimulating papers from psychologists, theorists and composers, including some concerning computer models. Dowling, W. J., and D. L. Harwood. 1985. "Music Cognition." Academic Press. An important work on many aspects of music perception and understanding. Bregman, A. 1990. "Auditory Scene Analysis: The Perceptual Organization of Sound." MIT Press. The measure of sound and music perception texts. Handel, S. 19879. "Listening: An Introduction to the Perception of Auditory Events" MIT Press Sundberg, J., L. Nord, and R. Carlson, eds. 1991. "Music, Language, Speech, and Brain." MacMillan Press. This was a really great conference; not all computer music, but very good work all around. Mathematics and Digital Audio Signal Processing Rabiner, L., and B. Gold, 1975. "Theory and Application of Digital Signal Processing." Prentice-Hall. Oppenheim, A.V. and R.W. Schafer, 1989. "Discrete-Time Signal Processing" Prentice Hall. The two most-widely used texts--up-to-date versions of all of DSP. Highly-relevant signal processing technology. Rabiner, L., and R. W. Schafer. 1978. "Digital Processing of Speech Signals." Prentice-Hall. DSP methodology for speech signals. Fisher, R. C., and A. D. Ziebur. 1982. "Integrated Algebra, Trigonometry and Analytic Geometry." Prentice-Hall. A good "basic math" reference. Strawn, J. ed. 1985. "Digital Audio Signal Processing: An Anthology," and "Digital Audio Engineering: An Anthology." A-R Editions. Two valuable anthologies of DSP for computer music. Pohlmann, K. 1989. "Principles of Digital Audio". Howard W Sams. Pohlmann, K. 1991. "Advanced Digital Audio". Howard W Sams. Introductory and intermediate texts on audio signal processing. Markel, J. D., and A. H. Gray. 1976. "Linear Prediction of Speech." New York: Springer-Verlag. Excellent development of lattice and ladder digital filter forms. Computer Music Software Technology Moore, F. R., 1990. "Elements of Computer Music." Prentice-Hall. The best comprehensive in-depth computer music technology and software for composition, synthesis, and processing. Mathews, M. V. 1969 " The Technology of Computer Music" Mit Press. The standard reference for software sound synthesis in Music V. Brinkman, A. 1990. "Pascal Programming For Music Research." University of Chicago Press. Many programming techniques for composition and analysis. Dodge, C. and T. A. Jerse. 1985. "Computer Music : Synthesis, Composition, and Performance." Schirmer Books. Tarabella, L. 1992. "Informatica e Musica." Milan: G. E. Jackson. A good introduction to hardware and software issues. Wells, T. 1981. "The Technique of Electronic Music." New York: Schirmer Books. Chowning, J., and D. Bristow. 1986. "FM Theory & Application." Yamaha Music Foundation. The title says it all; a practical-thinking introduction. Pope, S. T. ed. 1990. "The Well-Tempered Object." MIT Press. Object-oriented software for composition, performance and DSP in Lisp, Smalltalk-80, and Objective C. Todd, P. M., and D. G. Loy. eds. 1992. "Music and Connectionism." MIT Press. Collected papers on neural networks for musical applications. Balaban, M. K. Ebcioglu, and O. Laske, eds. 1992. "Understanding Music with AI: Perspectives on Music Cognition." MIT Press. A good survey of artificial intelligence tools for music. Buxton, W., W. Gaver, and S. Bly. 1993. "Auditory interfaces: The Use of Non-Speech Audio at the Interface." Cambridge University Press. An important contribution to the field of "non-speech audio" in user interfaces. Press, W., et al. 1989. "Numerical Recipes in C." Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. Efficient C-language routines for all common numerical algorithms MIDI and Real-Time Event Processing Yavelow, C. 1993. "The Macintosh Music and Sound Bible." IDG Books. Truly biblical in scale; covers all aspects of sound and music processing on Apple Macintoshs. Rowe, R. 1992. "Interactive Music Systems." MIT Press. (includes CD-ROM with software and sound examples) Machine composition and performance with Cypher and other tools; the CD-ROM includes software sources in Lisp, C, Max, and Smalltalk-80. Rothstein, J. 1991. "MIDI: A Comprehensive Introduction." A-R Editions. Recommended as a basic introduction. Chamberlain, H. 1987. "Musical Applications of Microprocessors." Indianapolis, Indiana: Hayden Books. Small systems for composition and performance. Anthologies of the Computer Music Literature Roads, C. and J. Strawn. 1985. "Foundations of Computer Music." MIT Press. Computer Music Journal: the first five years. Roads, C. ed. 1989. "The Music Machine." MIT Press. Computer Music Journal: the second five years. Davis, D. 1990. "A Computer Music Bibliography." A-R Editions (2 volumes). The very valuable kernel of any reference library. Hewlett, W., and E. Selfridge-Field, eds. 1985-1992. "Directory of Computer Assisted Research in Musicology." Center for Computer Assisted Research in the Humanities. (7 volumes). Annual volumes surveying representations, databases, and computer applications in musicology. Mathews, M. V., and J. R. Pierce, eds. 1989. "Current Directions in Computer Music Research." MIT Press (includes a CD of sound examples). An intense set of papers on the research issues in the field. Harris, C. R. and S. T. Pope. 1987. "Computer Music Association Source Book: Activities and Resources in Computer Music." International Computer Music Association. The desktop reference of the computer-music community. Abbott, C. ed. 1985. "Special issue on Computer Music." ACM Computing Surveys 17(2). New York: ACM Press. Contains good overviews of many aspects of computer music. "Proceedings of the 1977-1992 International Computer Music Conferences." San Francisco: International Computer Music Association. A shelf-full of our literature; must-have. Baggi, D. ed. 1992. "Readings in Computer-Generated Music." New York: IEEE Press. Has several important articles on modern applications. The Computer Music Library Starter Kit Roads, C. and J. Strawn. 1985. "Foundations of Computer Music." MIT Press. Roads, C. ed. 1989. "The Music Machine." MIT Press. Davis, D. 1990. "A Computer Music Bibliography." A-R Editions (2 volumes). Hewlett, W., and E. Selfridge-Field, eds. 1985-1992. "Directory of Computer Assisted Research in Musicology." Center for Computer Assisted Research in the Humanities. (7 volumes). "Proceedings of the 1977-1992 International Computer Music Conferences." International Computer Music Association. Roads, C. ed. 1985. "Composers and the Computer." A-R Editions. De Poli, G., A. Piccialli, and C. Roads, eds. 1991. "Representations of Musical Signals." MIT Press. Pierce, J. R. 1992. (revised edition) "The Science of Musical Sound." W. H. Freeman. Benade, A. H. 1990 "Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics." Dover Press. Deutsch, D. 1982. "The Psychology of Music." Academic Press. Oppenheim, A.V. and R.W. Schafer, 1989. "Discrete-Time Signal Processing" Prentice Hall. Strawn, J. ed. 1985. "Digital Audio Signal Processing: An Anthology." A-R Editions. Pohlmann, K. 1989. "Principles of Digital Audio". Howard W Sams. Moore, F. R., 1990. "Elements of Computer Music." Prentice-Hall. Rothstein, J. 1991. "MIDI: A Comprehensive Introduction." A-R Editions. Pope, S. T. ed. 1990. "The Well-Tempered Object." MIT Press. Todd, P. M., and D. G. Loy. eds. 1992. "Music and Connectionism." MIT Press. Balaban, M. K. Ebcioglu, and O. Laske. 1992. "Understanding Music with AI: Perspectives on Music Cognition." MIT Press. Rowe, R. 1992. "Interactive Music Systems." MIT Press. Comments and extensions are invited. __Stephen Travis Pope __Editor, Computer Music Journal __Research Associate, Center for New Music and Audio Technologies (CNMAT) __Department of Music, U. C.Berkeley __stp@CNMAT.Berkeley.edu, (510) 644-3881 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:28:40 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Danks Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now I'm pretty sure that Zeta is working on a new standard. Some one who knows more than I do can correct me, but it is a faster transmission protocol, etc. The good part is that for a little bit of $, manufacturers can add this standard (called Zippy, or something) which acts to some degree as a superset of MIDI. This means that MIDI does not suddenly become "obselete" while the new standard is slowly phased in. Later, Mark mdanks@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 19:03:54 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DAVID O'DONOGHUE Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd Subject: Re: Synth Redundancy? Reply to message text: >> for consensus, on the topic as yet. Which means that our music may in >> fact be the first to be rendered unrepeatable.... I guess so.. but perhaps more valuable because of that. > the impermanence of synths. Someone was speculating on how long it would take for the sound of the Morpheus to become overused, and therefore passe. When 'trademark' presets are used repeatedly in pop music, TV and radio adverts, Soundtracks for Films and Wildlife documentaries, you DO get sick of them. Remember 'Digital Native Dance' and 'Fantasia' from the Roland D-50? What about THAT Proteus snare drum? Remember how the DX-7 got splattered over everything? This syndrome (or Synth drone?) does NOT necessarily mean that the synth becomes PASSE, it just means that not enough people are learning how to edit them! The Morpheus in 5-10 years will still be useful, as will the DX-7, as will the Jupiter 8, as will the WAVE A/D, PPG, Microwave etc etc..... >How sobering to think that your music, which is tied to the sounds your machines are >capable of making is going to disappear when those machines go out of >fashion. I dont believe that (sorry to be blunt). Even if you DO change the synths in your 'rig' (for want of a better term) you STILL have your sequencer files.. Usually you can cobble together equivalent sounds to what you were using (we ARE synthesists, arent we?) , even if they arent EXACTLY the same.. The MUSIC is still the same, its just being played by a different 'Orchestra' >Classical music types like me are hung up on permanence. Ahh, thats where we differ. Pop music types are used to change (to a degree!) Regards DAVID O'DONOGHOE DODON@OZEMAIL.COM.AU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:28:40 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Gardner Subject: More Nancarrow discs Nancarrow's Quartet no.3 (1988) is on CD played by the Arditti Quartet (who else?) on Gramavision R2 79440. The disc also includes work by Xenakis, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Roger Reynolds and Beethoven. Nancarrow's Quartet No.1 (1945) is on an Arditti CD called U.S.A. on Disques Montaigne 782010. The disc also includes pieces by Carter, Ives, Feldman, Cage, Young, Lucier and Yim. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 03:41:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: elad ophir Subject: Cypher availability In-Reply-To: <9410210808.AA03067@cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU> What's going on with Cypher? How good is it, and how can one get it? thanks, Elad. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:25:15 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Simple mic question. In-Reply-To: <9410210316.AA19794@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 24 X-Sun-Content-Length: 1528 If you're planning on sampling at low levels, you'll have to use a good quality condenser mic. These microphones require a power source. On the lower end of the scale, you'll find mics with a small internal battery (I remember a $150 Nakamichi from a few years back that wasn't so bad). As you move up in quality, most condenser mics depend on an external power source. This is call phantom power and is provided by any halfway decent mixer (like any of the Mackies). Phantom power is provided over the XLR cable. The other function of the XLR-style connection is to minimize the effects of external electrical noise, like motors and line glitches. You can learn more about this from any number of tutorial books available from Mix Bookshelf or a good music store that caters to professionals. There are all kinds of condenser mics and they are all the subject of great religious fervor. Among the better manufacturers are AKG, Shure, Neumann, Audio-Technica, Beyer, and on and on. Most of them have something in the $300-$400 price range. A word of warning. Learning how to get a good recording, even for sampling, is very hard. At the same time, patience, good ears and an open mind will get you there. You'll be very pleased to have good sounds that nobody else has. If you know any recording engineers (not mix engineers -- different skill that doesn't always reside in the same body), see if you can tag along in exchange for doing the heavy lifting. Then pester the hell out of them for every trick they know. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:59:49 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Timbral notation and extreme reactions to music > Mark S > > > What is X's String Quartet #3 like? I haven't heard anything about that > yet. What is its date? Did Xenakis really stop writing for acoustic > instruments at any time in his career? Hasn't he been fairly well known > for the last 40 years? I was talking about Nancarrow's String Quartet #3. Yes, Xenakis has been a very big name, especially during the 50's and 60's, and the release of the Arditti disc, which I am still going through a little bit at a time, shows that he's attracting attention again. Nancarrow has been a recluse in Mexico for most of his life and has only recently attracted any attention at all. I only knew the name because Elliott Carter wrote that he stuck a quotation from one of Nancarrow's player piano studies in his SQ#1. > > I've spent some time with his MISTS, which is on the Arditti disc. It > has always struck me as quite beautiful. I spent some time graphing by > hand some of the arborescences in his music and, when he sent me his > sketches, I found that mostly they fell in line. Xenakis's conception > of pitch is essentially spatial, really nice pictures. Very dramatic > music.Again, if you can, give me info on this quartet. I understand that Xenakis often starts with some sort of graphic picture which he then manages to transcribe into more or less conventional notation. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:16:35 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Synth Redundancy? > > I dont believe that (sorry to be blunt). Even if you DO change the synths in > your 'rig' (for want of a better term) you STILL have your sequencer files.. > Usually you can cobble together equivalent sounds to what you were using (we > ARE synthesists, arent we?) , even if they arent EXACTLY the same.. > The MUSIC is still the same, its just being played by a different 'Orchestra' It would probably be good enough for my purposes if I could get a sound on one synth that was reasonably close to one I had on another, but I don't consider myself a Synthesist, primarily. But I can imaginge that the many people on this list who spend hours upon hours tweaking a patch until it's just so are not going to be satisfied with 'reasonably close' or 'almost'. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 15:50:54 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space > may crash often when it can=BC cut the mustard. Current hard drive techno= logy > will only allow you to play back up to but not over 8 tracks from a hard >drive, > no matter how big it is. I disagree here a little bit. Todays drives are fast enough to provide more. It is the combination computer/disk and software technology which is the problem. The todays limitation is based on the host computer I/O technology and their operating systems. Mac OS and Windows and the (partially) ancient I/O technology are just taking away too much power from the system or cannot provide enough I/O throughput, even if they have 4 times speeded up processors. A hard disk recording capable system needs high I/O bandwidth, that is a fast disk I/O and a fast sound system I/O, to prevend the CPU from touching every bit by itself. The CPU is needed for the data processing not for the data transfer. As an example look at the Cubase Audio Falcon v2.0 for the Atari Falcon 030, this combination with an average fast hard disk plays back 16 tracks with 16 bit/48kHz. The hardware is 68030/16 MHz CPU, 4 MB RAM, DMA disk transfer, Motorola 56001/32MHz DSP in the sound subsytsem, DMA data transfer from memory to sound subsystem. These figures seem to results in performance figures which are far behind any ones you might get in todays PC/Mac but for hard disk recording the combination of its components is just superior. Ciao, Stefan PS: I hope that with the arrival of the next generation of OS and hardware systems this might become invalid. But for today we have to live with this fact. <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 15:50:55 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space >Is the ability to record multitrack to hard disk a function of >hardware or software. For example, I have a turtle beach multisound >card that records dead quiet, but only stereo. Would it be possible, using >some sort of software package, to overlay several tracks? You can do that. There are several software packs out, which does this. Check out Innonvative Qual Software "SAW", TurtleBeach "Quad", there are other I can't remember now. As far as I know SAW is the most advanced currently, with the right equippement you can get upto 4 stereo tracks. <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:55:56 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <9410210751.AA13591@ebs330> from "Taylor, Nigel" at Oct 21, 94 08:47:32 am > Isn't it about time that boring old serial MIDI is scrapped and replaced by > a faster, parallel link with a wide data bus? About time, yes, but the majority of MIDI users aren't power users such as us (especially with GMIDI getting more popular) and policies such as revising MIDI are made on a "market" need, which does not exist at this time. And just think of it, not only would we be retrofitting CV gear, we'd retrofit most of our new gear. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:59:18 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <9410210831.AA13691@ebs330> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Oct 21, 94 01:32:38 am > > Isn't it about time that boring old serial MIDI is scrapped and replaced by > > a faster, parallel link with a wide data bus? > > Better yet, fiber. We need a unified protocol for fiber that is used for > everything, from wans to short links between equipment. Maybe TCP/IP or > something close. (How would you like to be reading this on your synthesizer > instead of your computer? :-) The problem with something like TCP/IP is that it is a packet system, while MIDI requires real-time continous data flow. I'd suggested SCSI a year ago but got shot down for the same reason, in addition that it only has 7 nodes... -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "[I]f a license was required to drive your synth, there might be less of a need for these newbie-type questions - then again, we'd have to deal with a Department of Transportation (Workstation?) - aaahhhhh!" - Jeff Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:14:46 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: Pissing off the neighbours In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:08:38 +1000 from On Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:08:38 +1000 David Rodger said: >Hi folks, >since we seem to like to piss off the neighbours, may I suggest either or both >of two records by Pop Will Eat Itself: "This is the Day, This is the Hour, >This is This" and "Cure For Sanity" (both BMG/RCA). The neighbours will be >pissed off more because they'll recognize some resemblence to pop music forms >they hate already, like hip hop, dance and heavy metal! > >Noisemongers unite! > >Regards, David. HI :) Sorry but I can't piss-off my neighbours. Well I would have to use 1000W amps to do so. My 'closest' neighbour lives 60 meters away and there are many bushes making an acoustic wall on the way. I can piss them of though using my lornmower for few hours :) But I don't know if a lornmower can be somehow added to a musical background. Did anybody try that ? Jacek L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jacek Latanowicz tel/fax (+48-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 jack@vm.amu.edu.pl jlat@uci1.ae.poz.edu.pl 61-306 Poznan jlat@plearn.edu.pl (Jack1 on IRC) POLAND "'I wish I had a dream...'" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:19:19 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: Simple mic question. In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:49:03 +1000 from On Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:49:03 +1000 David Rodger said: >Hello Thinice-Ataxia, >most mics are rated (i.e. list their specs) at an impedence of 150 ohms and >are set up like this to make them easier to use with gear which expects to see >this impedence (I think... someone can correct me). Most mic pre-amps have >their noise figures rated at 150 ohms. The frequency range you want for >sampling is dependent on your sampling rate, and, 6to a lesser extent, on >what you are sampling. If the sound is grundgy with lots of bass and not >much high frequency stuff, then a lower sample rate might suffice. For >any application, though, a mic with as full a frequency response as you can >get, is best. Its response should also be pretty flat so its sound is not >added to your sample; only the sound you sample will be the one you get. >As a guide, if you sample at 44.1 kHz (same as CD) or 48 kHz (other digital >standard), get a mic that goes from at least 40 Hz to 20,000 Hz with no >peaks or dips in its response. If your sampler won't sample at more than, >say, 32 kHz, then it won't matter if your mic starts to roll off around >15kHz. > > The formula is as follows: > Freq response required = 0.5*f(s) + a little bit more. >where f(s) is your sample rate. > Hi. I think You mixed two things together. The 'response frequency' and 'samplig frequency'. The response frequency should be more or less but aquedate to ear perception 18-18000Hz. And the sampling frequency should be at least twice as great as the highest sampled frequency. So : 18000 * 2 = min. 36000 Hz. It was defined by Nequist and if YOu will drop below that the sound reproduction might be not clear. The exact factor is more than 2. I think it's 2.3 or 2.27 but I'm not sure right now. Jacek L. Ps. If You want further details I can explain it from the acoustical point of view - why should it be 2.3 times higher. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jacek Latanowicz tel/fax (+48-61) 798-202 Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 jack@vm.amu.edu.pl jlat@uci1.ae.poz.edu.pl 61-306 Poznan jlat@plearn.edu.pl (Jack1 on IRC) POLAND "'I wish I had a dream...'" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:27:02 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dan Riley Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Oct 94 11:59:18 CDT." <199410211716.NAA15906@lns598.lns.cornell.edu> > The problem with something like TCP/IP is that it is a packet system, while > MIDI requires real-time continous data flow. I'd suggested SCSI a year > ago but got shot down for the same reason, in addition that it only has > 7 nodes... ATM is designed for just this sort of thing, having grown out of telephone net technology and requirements more than computer nets. And it's only 3 or 4 orders of magnitude too expensive right now (though I expect that to come down to 2 orders of magnitude within a year...). -- Dan Riley Internet: dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University HEPNET/SPAN: lns598::dsr (44630::dsr) "Distance means nothing/To me." -Kate Bush ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:45:36 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Mac Av digital audio and disc space In-Reply-To: <9410211529.AA07044@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 31 X-Sun-Content-Length: 2011 I worked for several years on the Lexicon Opus Hard Disk Editor/Digital Mixer, so I can claim a little bit of experience in getting samples off of disks. Assuming that your CPU is not touching all of the audio samples directly (in other words, the samples are DMA'd out to the Mixing and Playback logic), the biggest limitation to the number of channels you can play is the access time of the drive. Opus has many different processors performing DSP and mixing, so we're talking apples and oranges here. But there is a single lowly 16MHz 68000 that handles all of the disk scheduling for 16 tracks of audio. That same processor is handling all play list management as well as console automation for 96 faders, pots, etc. It's also computing EQ coefficients and doing a lot of other work. So the problem really has very little to do with the CPU. In the case of a Mac-based system (I like Macs, by the way, so I'm not dumping), the extra CPU horsepower is trying to make up for problems caused by a file system that is not designed for audio. The Opus file system (and I would guess many of our competitors at the high end) is especially designed for audio purposes. It is made to minimize access time -- the time required to move the heads and for the disk to come around to the proper position. As a result, it's excellent for audio and not much good for anything else. Recording products that live on a Mac or PC and use the native file system must cope with the problems caused by a general-purpose file architecture. Disk fragmentation -- both because of non-audio data and because of editing -- can always create situations in which the software just can't get the heads into place in time. As disks get faster, these products perform better because the problem is swept a little further under the rug. The throughput of current drives is not really the bottleneck. It's those heads. Dedicating a disk to audio and studiously following recommended defragmentation procedures can help a lot. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:09:48 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now ......on the MIDI thread...... The MIDI spec hasn't been discussed here for quite awhile, presumably because the conclusions are nil, we lack empowerment and the discussion can morph from emusic material to techno-nitpicking quite easily (FireWire ring a bell?). Retros, backward-compatability and vague future needs are an eternal bane and really bog down a lot of otherwise exceptional ideas. On one hand, we have MIDI. It works for me. Data clogging? Get more lines, get a multi-in multi-out computer interface. SDS too slow? SMDI works fine, why don't you have a SCSI interface on that sampler anyway? The other hand flails out...what about all these cables? My racks a mess! In-out-thru? Should be bidirectional. I don't want multiplexer, I want fast throughput on one line. Velocity=1-127? No wonder why my piano sequence sounds like a robot pickin' its nose. ......off the MIDI thread......... Krik out. _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:14:20 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now From: Dan Riley >ATM is designed for just this sort of thing, having grown out of telephone Tell us about ATM. Thanks _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:24:38 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Timbral notation and extreme reactions to music In-Reply-To: <199410201420.HAA22677@mail.netcom.com> from "Mark G Simon" at Oct 20, 94 10:22:30 am Mark G Simon writes-- > >On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, Mike Metlay wrote: > >> Never let your spouse dictate your tastes in anything (except perhaps >> choice of sexual partners). If she doesn't like it, use headphones. > >True. > >Generally, I regard my wife as a representative of my ideal audience, >i.e., one made up of intelligent non-musicians. If I write something and >she likes it then I can feel confident that my theoretical audience will >like it. If she doesn't, I might say "well, she'll come around >eventually", as I often do, and she often does. If she doesn't then I >might try to figure out what it is that turns her off and then decide if >it's something I can change without compromising my original idea. > >She's not going to stop me from listening to Xenakis if I feel like it, >however I'm not likely to find it worth the while to emulate Xenakis in >my own music. My wife has over the years of our association become exceptionally well versed with the tools and styles of electronic music; as such, she now is quite capable of casting her personal tastes, which overlap with mine in only a few places, in technical enough terms to cast serious doubts on my abilities. At this point in our marriage, she is quick to offer both extravagant praise and merciless criticism, knowing full well that I ignore her with glee. I love her very much, so we don't discuss my music. :) -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've had some beautiful women melt my heart...Now a Chroma is melting it." (r. fahl) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:19:46 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: aldingk Subject: J. C. Bach Subject: Time: 11:29 AM OFFICE MEMO J. C. Bach Date: 10/23/94 Help! I have discovered a need for copies of Johan CHRISTIAN Bach's music (J. Sabastian Bach's son). I am looking for any printed or sheat music avaiable, and anything MIDI would be absolutely even better. To spare a long story, I think some piece by him was used by a Video Game a few years ago (Ezanya), and need to know for sure. The name of the piece possibly starts with an S or a Z. Please respond directly as I am not on the list. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. ALDINGK@CENTMAIL.SW2.K12.WY.US ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:37:53 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: FNELSON@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU Subject: Guest Lecture/Concert From: IN%"msimoni@umich.edu" "Mary Simoni" 21-OCT-1994 13:41:05.84 To: IN%"FNELSON@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU" CC: Subj: Guest Lecture/Concert (fwd) Return-path: Received: from us.itd.umich.edu (stimpy.us.itd.umich.edu) by OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU (PMDF V4.3-7 #7710) id <01HIJGG32D7K00EZLM@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU>; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:40:46 EDT Received: by us.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2) id NAA08389; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:40:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:40:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Simoni Subject: Guest Lecture/Concert (fwd) X-Sender: msimoni@stimpy.us.itd.umich.edu To: FNELSON@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:39:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Simoni To: cpat.known.universe@umich.edu Cc: itd.known.universe@umich.edu, rescomp.rcscs@umich.edu Subject: Guest Lecture/Concert Gary Nelson from the TIMARA (Technology in Music and Related Arts) at Oberlin Conservatory will be visiting the UM Campus Tuesday, November 1st. Gary Nelson is internationally recognized in the field of computer music working in Stockholm, IRCAM (Paris), Melbourne Australia and Taiwan. His specialties include real-time interactive performance using the MIDI horn developed at Oberlin. Come and join us for a lecture/demo and evening concert. Tuesday, November 1st Lecture/Demo: 12:40-2:00PM 2032 Moore (School of Music) Concert: 8:00PM Recital Hall (School of Music) Mary Simoni, Center for Performing Arts & Technology School of Music e-mail: msimoni@umich.edu voice/voice mail: +1 (313) 936-0425 fax: +1 (313) 763-5097 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:31:40 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nate Waddoups Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <199410210853.AA28596@halcyon.com> On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Mark Danks wrote: > I'm pretty sure that Zeta is working on a new standard. Some one who knows > more than I do can correct me, but it is a faster transmission protocol, etc. Well, they're working on a new protocol. Whether or not if becomes a 'standard' is up to the industry as a whole... I'm rooting for them. > The good part is that for a little bit of $, manufacturers can add this > standard (called Zippy, or something) which acts to some degree as a > superset of MIDI. This means that MIDI does not suddenly become "obselete" > while the new standard is slowly phased in. (called ZIPI: Zeta "instrument processor interface," I think) It's a superset of the MIDI capabilities, but it isn't exactly backwards-compatible. I think it may use a different cable. It won't be all that cheap, I suspect, for manufacturers to implement it next to MIDI. It's not impossible or anything (Zeta's first few products will support both protocols), but I worry that other manufacturers might not be eager to have two disctinct protocols (with disctinct hardware interfaces) per synth. On the other hand, maybe they're as eager to step up from MIDI as we are. From what I've seen, I get the impression that notes are assigned not just a pitch, but some sort of unique ID number, so that parameters like pitch bend can be assigned to specific notes, rather than every note currently playing... I have read that a new guitar/synth interface that they're developing has been a big motivator for the ZIPI development, as they want to capture nuances that MIDI just won't support (pitched/unpitched balance, brightness, etc), on a per-note (or per-string, anyhow) basis. One of their engineers has been sharing info on a guitar/MIDI mailing list. Interesting stuff. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:33:58 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tim Thompson Subject: Re: Nancarrow In the cdconnection.com service, I see the following CD's by Nancarrow. I want to try one - any recommendations? Many thanks. ...Tim Thompson...tjt@aloft.att.com... RCA61180 NANCARROW*C. STUDIES 9.6/3 $12.82 RCA VICTOR 7/93 WER6168 NANCARROW*CONLON STUDIES FOR PLAYER PIANO VOLS. $35.55 WERGO 6/91 WER60166 NANCARROW*CONLON STUDIES FOR PLAYER PIANO VOLS. $35.55 WERGO 2/91 WER60165 NANCARROW/ CONLON STUDIES FOR PLAYER PIANO,VOL.5 $18.14 WERGO 12/93 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 17:11:25 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ab Wilson Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now In-Reply-To: <94Oct21.162459edt.41443@gateway.morgan.com> There is definately a need for a new midi but whatever it is it has to a big enough order of magnitude better to be worthwhile. To me this means it will have to be capable of doing everything that I can presently do with midi *and* CV/gates. ie I want a system which I can send audio down in real time and use that as a modulation source for my new hypothetical digital modular system. This isn't going to happen until we go optical. BTW I don't see why this should be so expensive. My cheapo consummer CD player has an optical output. If they can afford to put a feature like that which hardly anybody is going to use (I didn't even know it had it until I got it home and took it out of the box) on such an obviously consummer box then surely it's not such a big deal to fit an optical interface to a synth that cost $3000. As to nitpicks about what to do this all our then obsolete midi gear I don't think this would be a problem. If an optical standard emerged you can bet it would be able to do absolutely everything that midi already does. This being the case you can bet that the very first third party products to emerge will be ->midi converters. I would imagine that you'd be able to buy one of these that would have sixteen outputs to support all sixteen midi channels no problem. As for getting your old gear to do all the nice things that the new standard could do - tuff shit what do you expect. Ab. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 17:28:05 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ab Wilson Subject: Re: Synth Redundancy? In-Reply-To: <94Oct21.091752edt.41402@gateway.morgan.com> Mark G Simon writes: > But I can imaginge that > the many people on this list who spend hours upon hours tweaking a patch > until it's just so are not going to be satisfied with 'reasonably close' > or 'almost'. It's not so much tweaking a patch so that it's just so but more setting it up so that it responds in certain (often very bizarre) ways to performance controls. Thats the real problem with trying to recreate a lost sound jst from the midi track. Ab. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 16:29:56 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefan Scheffler Subject: Re: Abolish MIDI now >Isn't it about time that boring old serial MIDI is scrapped and replaced by >a faster, parallel link with a wide data bus? It is interresting that right now this happens here, for a while it was really quite about this issue. Nowadays everywhere everybody talks about it. I do not think that we outperformed MIDI yet, at least not from its technical view. What we are outperforming are mainly the sound modules and the keyboards. Over the last years there were several publications of music magazines which reviewed the timing of the sound modules, only very few showed up a good and stable timing. But some popular synths delayed the sound by 20 - 70 ms after arrival of the MIDI Note On and this delay was not stable at all. If you have a faster MIDI but the same timing inside the sound modules you will gain nothing. The synth manufactorer has to stabilize the timing inside the sound modules than we can think about a faster MIDI. What a lot of people does already. Ciao, Stefan <> stefan@mms-gmbh.de <> Stefan Scheffler, Software Development <> Steinberg Soft- & Hardware GmbH <> Cubase Lite/Score/Audio for Mac/Atari/Windows ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:46:56 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Nasty guitar sounds from a synth? In-Reply-To: <199410192202.PAA29374@mail.netcom.com> from "Arne Claassen ISE" at Oct 19, 94 05:01:23 pm Arne Claassen ISE writes-- > >> How did we edit the three solo sequences together? We didn't! We >> played back all three soloes at once, fed them all to the WS >> simultaneously, and made its poor overworked CPU decide how to deal >> with three conflicting MIDI streams. We liked the result so we kept >> it. :) Our next project will have a lot more multitrack and a lot less >> MIDI, so happy accidents like this one will be more rare, but I'm sure >> we'll come up with other weirdnesses.... > >So there is life after the Solina (i think that's it) session? But i'm sorry >to hear that you'll play less with MIDI, i'm rather fond of MIDI weirdness :) The word you're looking for is 'Saturnalia.' :-> That was our session in 1992, from which we created only four songs, one of which we had to take out and shoot and the other three of which we felt were kind of rough for release. In addition, in the previous winter we had a series of mini-sessions collectively entitled 'Beta test', featuring some faces not seen on 'Bandwidth', namely William Sequeira, Eirikur Hallgrimsson, David Turner, and our own Joe McMahon...five more songs, for a total of about 45 minutes of music, another 'Bandwidth' in length but not in quality. We spoke of these problems in the interview listed on Arne's SoundConstructors WWW page, whose address has been listed here. Since then, we have added DACC Crowell and Steve Verity to the Team, and while I won't go into detail, I will confirm for Arne and anyone else who cares that for Team Metlay, despite gloomy predictions to the contrary, there WILL be life after 'Saturnalia.' Watch for a period where a lot of folks vanish off the Net for a long while; that's about the only hint you'll be getting. ;-> >> Oh, the WS was only used on that one track and a little bit on >> "Netstrophonie" (we have all signed a Just Say No To Chiffy Kalimba >> pledge for all future projects, you'll be happy to learn). The leads >> on the other pieces were provided by the Prophet T8, Prophet VS, and >> of course the Xpanders. No external fuzzboxes applied (or needed :) > >So Loremaire was not WS? I'd assumed that part of it was considering Nick's >apparent affinity for it. Also was the lead on Hinge of Fate the Xpander? I >just love that patch. Kind of has a feel of a resonating steel piper as a >sound carrier. You've let your timetable get messed up, Arne. :) At the time of 'Bandwidth,' the Wavestation had just been released-- Nick had never seen one before those sessions. When Loremarie was written, I don't think they were even on the market yet. It was in the years after 'Bandwidth' that Nick got into the WS. That horrendously powerful lead on The Hinge of Fate was my beloved Prophet VS, going full bore in Unison mode with a particularly gnarly patch that is easily available to anyone with a VS and an original owner's manual --it's one of the tutorial patches they put in the end of the book as an example of how to program the VS. A little sweetening with an LXP-1, and out she went. I love that box.... mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've had some beautiful women melt my heart...Now a Chroma is melting it." (r. fahl) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:50:53 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Synth Redundancy? In-Reply-To: <199410211314.GAA03709@mail2.netcom.com> from "Mark G Simon" at Oct 21, 94 09:16:35 am Mark G Simon writes-- > >> I dont believe that (sorry to be blunt). Even if you DO change the synths in >> your 'rig' (for want of a better term) you STILL have your sequencer files.. >> Usually you can cobble together equivalent sounds to what you were using (we >> ARE synthesists, arent we?) , even if they arent EXACTLY the same.. >> The MUSIC is still the same, its just being played by a different 'Orchestra' > >It would probably be good enough for my purposes if I could get a sound >on one synth that was reasonably close to one I had on another, but I >don't consider myself a Synthesist, primarily. But I can imaginge that >the many people on this list who spend hours upon hours tweaking a patch >until it's just so are not going to be satisfied with 'reasonably close' >or 'almost'. This varies from person to person, actually. Some folks aren't as rigidly attached to particular timbres, and 'almost' may very well be good enough. Others have to have everything just SO. I lean toward the former, with very few exceptions (but they do exist). Generally, when a piece is done, I preserve it on digital media and move on to other things; remixing the same sequence with other machines leads to odd results. The Chain of Whispers was a good project for tracking how much (or little) a raw MIDI file can communicate about the music itself; another example was Killing Chrome from 'Bandwidth' which was re-created without the original author being there. He sent effects settings, a SMF, even patch data and a tape of his mix; we didn't get anywhere near it in the end. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've had some beautiful women melt my heart...Now a Chroma is melting it." (r. fahl)