========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 00:01:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Douglas Calnek Subject: Re: Re[2]: Eno Update I sent the original message. James is a rock band from Britain. They have at least 3 albums out to date. They can be found in nearly all CD shops...Good stuff..."U2ish genre (more complex), but better writers and mucisians. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 08:22:19 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Korg X5 and SysEx! >I believe that a sysex incompatibility between a macintosh and a Korg new product on the market should by any means be of knowledge of all E-Mail subscribers Well, by that philosophy, I would be getting a lot of email about all sorts of things (right down to the best way to press fairies without injuring them). >Oh by the way, I have >subscribed to SYNTH-L. Thanks. Peace.-Paulo You should get the question answered there... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 03:28:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bo Newman Subject: SUMMARY - COMPOSITION :PREFACE: As a dedicated "lurker" I don't often make my presence known, but having benefitted from this tread, I wanted to try to make a contribution. The follow is a summary of around 13 postings on the subjects: COMPOSITION and NOTATION. I believe the opening question went something like; "I am looking for a good music notation software for windows. I use Traxx for all my sequencing, but can print parts from it. I know Finale is the top for the MAC, but I live in the world of windows. Can anyone help? Let me know!" The packages referenced in the various responses included; Finale, Encore, Cakewalk-CWalkPro/Win-Cakewalk Pro, Master Tracks, Music Time, CUbase Score, Traxx, and Notator Logic. In the following sections I have tried to consolidate the comments about the various packages discussed. Individual comments are separated by " -- ". The various packages are listed in no particular order. As I am not familiar with all of the packages (this thread was an education for me), I may have introduced some errors in the editing, if I did, I apologize to all, especially the authors of the comments and the owners of the packages discussed. All opinions expressed are those of the contributors, and are just that, opinions. -------------- Finale: -- Finale has NO limitations. in some cases this is a good thing. In many cases, it is overkill. The time spent learning pays off down the road. -- FINALE for Windows which is now out. List is about $750, but discounted to about $500 and academic price is even lower. It is manufactured by Coda in Minneapolis. -- Finale has made inroads in terms of ease of use. -- Use Finale for Windows. -- Finale for Windows seems like something you might want to check out. -------------- Encore - Passport -- I also use Encore. -- Encore is much easier to use, but I haven't found online help, which is disappointing, and it lacks some of Finale's functionality. -- Encore's my favorite because of its interface, though. Right now I'm using it with Vision for Windows. -- The best notators [include] Encore from Passport. -------------- Cakewalk - CWalkPro/Win - Cakewalk Pro -- I am using CWalkPro/Win and it really works great except there is no text entry available...like lyrics etc....at least not that I can see. -- Cakewalk Pro for Windows 3.0 is the version that I believe added lyrics. -- (A related post included text from the manual on how to include lyrics) -- For windows use Cakewalk Pro. I think it is like in version 2.0 for windows now. -- I use cakewalk as well (which is on 3.0 now), but it's not know for being the best notation program (I use it strictly as a sequencer). All of the reports I've read suggest that 3.0 was a big improvement though, so you might want to check it out, but all of the info I read suggests to stick with the well-know notation pros. -- Even though Cakewalk Pro 3.0 for windows is more a sequencing engine, it is a very good notation program. It allows printing, graphical manipulation of controllers, piano rolls, event lists, and musical staff views. -- I find it a pleasure to use. I have composed many pieces using it. You'll find *.wrk files on many BBS. It sells for $349US from Twelve Tone Systems. -- I've heard about 4.0. Though I hate it anyway ;) -------------- Master Tracks - PassPort -- With Passport, it's the same interface in MusicTime and you have a much more limited vocabulary. Kind of like having a keyboard with 23 letters of the alphabet. -- I treat Master Tracks of Passport to be the best [of the] home sequencers. -------------- CUbase Score - Steinberg -- I find it very useful and relatively easy to use. Plus, it's available on all platforms - file compatible. -- Steinberg is devoted to music software , they are the leader and the pioneers especially on Atari and Amiga computers . Now they are in dos and windows versions as well a MAC version, quite expensive, they came out with CUbase Lite which sells for about $100 canadian. -- I treat the Cubase to be a very good studio [sequencer]. -- Cubase Score is also [a] very good [notator]. -- The notation program that most publishers of music us is [?CUbase?] Score (its for pcs) -------------- Notator Logic: [The best notators include] Notator Logic. -------------- Misc Comments not specific to a given package but relating to the subject: -- Buy a used MAC. Most are 1/5 list and the learning curve is elementary. -- I don't much like the idea of an integrated notation program myself. To me, the two are different applications. When I'm working on a project, I'm usually either doing a studio project with myself where there's no need for notation or focusing on live performance, where MIDI sequencing features are to me simply "prototyping" aids, and I'd rather focus on notation. -- I'd have to recommend a high-end program, however; you can get by without a pro-level sequencer but not really a notation program. Low end generally translates as headaches: -------------- The responses summarized above were from the following people. I would like to thank them for their contribution. 100321.1763@COMPUSERVE.COM (Christian Roth) AFeditor@AOL.COM (Peter Kirn) chrisshe@MICROSOFT.COM (Chris Sherwood) DavidB10@AOL.COM (Davvid Brooks) DCarr45465@AOL.COM (Donald R. Carroll,Jr.) dodon@OZEMAIL.COM.AU (DAVID O'DONOGHUE) FingersMan@AOL.COM (Joe Holiday) gbourgou@PO2.MTL.MARCONI.CA (Bourgouin,Gaetan) gdorter@JULIAN.UWO.CA (Greg Dorter) PAPEL@COLUMBIA.DSU.EDU(LouisPape) Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU (Peter Mueller) rvb@OUT.PHYS.MSU.SU (Roman Belavkin) spowy@UNM.EDU (kenneth lee hankins) =============================================== Summary by: BoNewman@aol.com (Bo Newman) Stopping from time to time from my business travel on the Information Highway to meet the folks and have a little fun. =============================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 03:43:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Re: 16-bit standalone this is just a hunch, but you might want to call the guys at passport and ask them (the people who make alchemy.) They seem to know alot about different digital sound format conversions. If you don't have their e-mail address, I can get it for you... they also have an area here on america on-line. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 09:17:04 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Philip Jones Subject: Souncard MIDI Ports Hi All Could someone please let me know the pin out for the 15 pin D connector fitted on Soundblaster and equivalent cards or where I could obtain this information. I have a soundcard and need to connect a MIDI project to it but don't know which of the pins are used for the MIDI signal, which are unconnected and which are used for the joystick(s). If anyone could help I would be most appreciative. Thanks Phil Jones (pj02@ee.ic.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 08:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: Midi Files In-Reply-To: <9412010207.AA11356@julian.uwo.ca> Do Macs and PC's use the same MIDI file format. I've tried uploading PC MIDI files to my UNIX account, then downloading them on a Mac and vice versa. Since I thought MIDI files were a standardized format, I hoped this would work, but it doesn't seem to. Can anyone tell me if it possible to take a MIDI file that has been created on a PC and read it on a Mac and vice versa. Thanks Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 08:41:42 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: MAX? In-Reply-To: <9411302326.AA12533@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 4 X-Sun-Content-Length: 317 Does MAX work with FreeMidi (MOTU) or MidiManager? I've been interested in experimenting with it, but I already have a full suite of MOTU programs and don't feel like blowing $1500 to get the equivalent in Opcode stuff. I know some readers will say there are no equivalents between MOTU and Opcode -- please desist. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:30:05 BDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eloi Fernando Fritsch Subject: FTP Csound How can I get Csound by FTP? Thanks ELoi. e_mail:fritsch@inf.ufrgs.br ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:07:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Enya's music (was Enya's sounds) >Do we really want to get into there, like they do on usenet? (cue Baladamenti-inspired string pad) No. :) --- Joe M. (ominous warning mode off) -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 14:40:56 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: MAX? >MAX is, as best I can describe it, an object-oriented programming language for realtime manipulation of MIDI data. ...with a nice graphical programming interface and user-interface objects, so you can build editors and control panels as well. >there were NO nonMac versions of any >Opdoce software, the exception being the now-divergent NeXTStep version of MAX, which was developed before Opcode took over the Mac version (if I have my history right, someone from the MAX list please check me on this). MAX was developed by Miller Puckette at IRCAM (Paris). Opcode bought the rights to maintain and support the Mac version back in '90 or '91 or so; Miller still works on the NeXT/DSP version. There was talk of pulling them together somewhat: Zicarelli spent a few months at IRCAM recently. The demo of NeXT MAX I saw was rather impressive. Before our eyes, Miller built flangers and reverbs by patching together arrays of digital audio delays of varying lengths... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 14:42:11 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: 16-bit standalone >this is just a hunch, but you might want to call the guys at passport and ask them (the people who make alchemy.) Alchemy was "made" by Donny Blank. I don't know that Passport ever did anything with it...? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 10:51:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Macalester College Music Department Subject: Re: midi protocol for MIDI protocol, try "Music Thru MIDI", M. Boom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:15:47 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: FTP Csound In-Reply-To: <9412011430.AA14118@julian.uwo.ca> To find anything on FTP you can do an Archie search, which will return a list of all FTP sites which have files matching a keyword. For Csound, go to cecelia.media.mit.edu and look in the \pub directory. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:20:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: MAX? (fwd) I posted an earlier question about MAX for Windows on the MAX list. Here is a reply. Max was originally developed by Miller Puckette at IRCAM for Macintosh. IRCAM decided to make Max commercially available around '88 or '89 and eventually OpCode took it up. As noted above, OpCode has never shown much interest in MS-DOS [and I can hardly blame 'em. Oops, bunch of people gonna flame me :-]. Before the commercial release, OpCode contracted/hired/otherwise engaged David Zicarelli to work on the code of the Mac version. I'm not sure how much of the current version of Mac is David's and how much is Miller's, nor do I know how the division of QC/beta-testing/etc. was between IRCAM and OpCode. Around this time, for various reasons, Max was ported to NeXT. The NeXT port is the sole responsibility of IRCAM. I assume the Miller worked on this, but there may have been other people, as well. I note that the Mac version seems to have a lot more external objects than the NeXT version does. IRCAM seems to have been more interested in NeXT than in Mac since 1990. Now that NeXT is no longer a vital hardware platform [read the previous carefully before flaming], we will have to wait and see where they focus their work. One anecdote may point the way: At the Aarhus ICMC one moderately VIP from IRCAM was telling me that SGI was _merde chaude_ and that Mac was just plain ol' _merde_. Excuse ma French ;-) Greetings to all and sundry, Peter. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Peter Castine | Question: What is the purpose of this pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de | "experimental" music? Process Control Center | Answer: No purposes. Sounds. Technical University Berlin | [John Cage, SILENCE] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:49:36 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth <100321.1763@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: platform(MAX) To: >INTERNET: emusic-l@american.edu Gaetan Bourgouin wrote some stuff about different platforms which is quite true. I always was sad that computers (sic!) don't really put things together. I, f.i., am generally very happy with my Falcon and his HD-Rec. capabilities. but things like MAX never made it to that platform. Also I'd wish there would be more of stuff like 'presto' which is a composing program of the other kind. It was developed after the methods of a swiss university prof, offering many 'mathematical' transformations and matrices. Are there projects like GNU in musical terms? I mean, are there source codes freely available that concern musical purposes? Unfortunately I don't believe that there's a chance to port MAX like that since it's commercial. How about things happening at IRCAM (France)? Can anybody tell me (no full internet access) what's going on there, resp. their WWW-page? Musically, Chris (Vienna / Austria) p.s.: I'd like to see this list dedicated to _music_ and electronics too for I'm paying for internet-mail ;-) anyway, until now I enjoy being abroad and am anxiously awaiting the promised posts about twelve tone techniques. Finally, I want to apologize if my English is not always clear in expression. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:08:46 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Elsea Subject: midi protocol Leo T. Nutley writes >I've been trying to find the format for sending basic midi messages >With the service that i'm on, ftp sites are not as available as i'd like, so even though the info on such places is good for future reference, i have to go to more old-fashoned sources. How about paying for it? Contact Internation MIDI Association 5316 W 57th st Los Angeles CA 90065 (310) 649-6434 The basic book is $40, but you should also get Standard Midi files for $7 more. Peter Elsea UCSC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Midi Files >Do Macs and PC's use the same MIDI file format. I've tried uploading PC MIDI files to my UNIX account, then downloading them on a Mac and vice versa. Since I thought MIDI files were a standardized format, I hoped this would work, but it doesn't seem to. Can anyone tell me if it possible to take a MIDI file that has been created on a PC and read it on a Mac and vice versa. Yes, they do. The problem is that the Mac needs to see that the file is indeed a standard MIDI file. If you're a little familiar with the Mac's internal, you probably know that files have both a type and a creator. The file type must be set to 'Midi' (yess, lower case and all). There are a number of programs out on the info-mac mirror FTP sites which will automagically do this for you (drag-and-drop, very nice). --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:44:50 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Danks Subject: Max evolution With all of this discussion of Max, I thought that I would throw in my two cents. IRCAM still supports the NeXT version of max, but it requires the ISPW board, a hefty $$ investment, but very powerful. Miller has left IRCAM and is now here at UCSD. The new news on Max is that he has ported it over to the SGIs. A very shakey, buggy, not-releasable version exists for the Indys, which I'm using on a piece right now. The amazing thing is that it all runs in software. With the quad-DACs on the Indy, this makes for a powerful combination. If you want more power, just upgrade to a more powerful SGI machine. I believe that IRCAM may release the SGI version sometime next year, but then again it may depend on who owns it now, IRCAM or the UC system. Almost all of the Opcode version was designed by Zicarelli, Miller is much more into the signal side of audio as opposed to MIDI (of course, I'm trying to get the IndyCam working to get vision going with Max) Hope this helps. Later, Mark mdanks@ucsd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 03:53:23 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mon-chu Chen Subject: Re: Midi Files In-Reply-To: <9412011345.AA21401@cc.nctu.edu.tw> from "Greg Dorter" at Dec 1, 94 08:42:58 am >this would work, but it doesn't seem to. Can anyone tell me if it >possible to take a MIDI file that has been created on a PC and read it on a Mac and vice versa. After you download all the midi files with "BINARY MODE", change the file type to "Midi" with ResEdit or other utilites. Then most midi softwares will recognize them. -- Bamboo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:34:02 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kenneth Hoskins Subject: Re: Midi Files I think I might be able to help you. The finder on the macintosh reads every file's header to find out what kind of document it is(text, MIDI, Word, etc.) I think your problem might be that when you bring files from a PC based platform the file does not have the MIDI desingation in in its header. I ran into a similar problem when I transfered from PC formats using the Apple file exchange. There are sharewe programs out there for the Mac that address this problem. The one that I use is called Midi Converter. It is rather simple. It changes the header in a file so that the finder will recognize it as a midi file. I downloaded Midi Converter From America On - Line. Where you might find an application like Midi Converter I don't know, but they are out there. Ken--The Man on the Moon ****Kenneth B. Hoskins**** Ken1975 Ken1975@aol.com (817) 369-8205 PO Box 13551 Denton, TX 76203 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:57:51 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: MAX? (backward) (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 12:38:59 -0800 From: David Zicarelli To: Multiple recipients of list MAX Subject: MAX? (backward) I'm sure that both Opcode and IRCAM would be thrilled if a Windows version of MAX appeared at the door, all finished and ready to be sold. However, neither party has wanted to pay to make that happen. Porting a program to Windows that has been under development for six years on the Macintosh is not cheap. There was some talk that a third party might provide some financing, but at this point, no Windows programmer has contacted me to ask questions about the source code. This suggests that if you and your organization think you can make money with a Windows version of MAX, the opportunity is wide open. But I really don't know what's going on. I left IRCAM in September, and I'm finishing the next version of MAX as a consultant to Opcode in my spare time. It appears that future development of MAX will continue to be done at IRCAM and Opcode will continue to publish the program. David Z. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:30:30 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Darwin Grosse Subject: Re: SMF on a Macintosh While I sent direct mail to ken, I'll also send a note here. When using SMF files on a Vision-based system, you don't open an SMF as a sequence; rather, you open a "NEW" sequence and "INPORT" the SMF into the file. This process does not require setting up the File Type for the Finder. (This, at least, is how I do it with SV/AV V2.0). [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 377-2946(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@devlac.ems.com .............................................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 13:37:36 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Sherwood Subject: Re: Enya's music (was Enya's sounds) |From: Joe McMahon | |>Do we really want to get into there, like they do on usenet? | |(cue Baladamenti-inspired string pad) | |No. :) Cool -- I won't bring up the subject of sampli.... *ouch*, stop thasjkjs M (*click*) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 21:23:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BrianVideo@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic On Nov 30, 1994 Greg Dorter writes: >I have not put much thought into this yet. First, I'm interested in finding out >whats already been done for it (if anything at all!) out there on the net lland!.... Using MidiFiles is a crude method of transferring music but at least it can be imported into a notation program. Postscript is an object-oriented graphics format which can be transmitted as a text or binary file. Especially with the binary format this should be much more compact than sending images and it includes virtually infinite detail for high quality printing. Most music applications on most platforms can write a postscript file one way or another. Also, most platforms have the ability to read postscript although translating music fonts could be a problem. Adobe Sonata works pretty well but you would probably need it on your system. Even then, you still wouldn't be able to use the music "data" except for printing it out. Programs like Common Ground and Adobe Acrobat can display complex object-oriented documents without requiring the fonts. I think the players for these documents are free. Also QuickDraw GX from Apple supports Portable Digital Documents which will do the same thing. QuickDraw GX is included in the latest Macintosh operating system release (7.5). I'm not sure if it is supported on other platforms. I believe that Coda has presented their ENIGMA format as a "Standard" for transmitting documents electronically. Does anyone know if any applications besides Finale supports this format? I beleive Finale runs only on Macs and PCs. SUMMARY While MidiFiles are ok for playback. Most notation programs can write a MidiFile but do little for interpreting them. If you want to print it or see anything in addition to notes, it looks as if Common Ground or Adobe Acrobat would be the best if you didn't need to import the music data into a notation program and that ENIGMA is the closest thing to an editable music notation standard that we have. What do you think? Is this correct? Should other notation software developers be encouraged by the electronic music community to support the ENIGMA format? I too would like to know of an ftp site for notated music. B Shaw ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:36:06 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic Thanks to Brian for his thoughts. If I remember correctly, there was a bit a few weeks ago about how Enigma is an enigma and Finale ain't sharing with anyone. So Greg might still have his problem. Regards, David ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 21:40:58 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Subject: Re: Max evolution In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 1 Dec 1994 11:44:50 -0800 from Regarding the NeXT/ISPW combination, as we all know the NeXT is history (though NeXT Step does run on a PC). The ISPW is now out of production. So the only market is the used arena and not to many ISPW are out there even if you could afford the $10K ballpark asking price. Ariel has a card that will reportedly work on a PC running NeXT Step but I don't have any experience with that combination. Can anyone illuminated in regards to this possibility (sans MAX). ciao Jim ************************************************************************ Dr. James Paul Sain jsain@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Director of Electroacoustic Music (904)392-9313/voice University of Florida (904)392-0461/fax PO BOX 117900 PENTIUM: for those who don't always need five Gainesville, FL 32611 signigicant digits! ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:28:29 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Pressing Fairies Nick Rothwell wrote-- ...>Well, by that philosophy, I would be getting a lot of email about all sorts oof things (right down to the best way to press fairies without injuring them). You need the FP-1: multitinkerbell, 3 fairies in, 1 fairy out. Fairy thru is poorly implemented, however. Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 19:16:57 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Sherwood Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic |From: | |Using MidiFiles is a crude method of transferring music but at least it can |be imported into a notation program. | |Postscript is an object-oriented graphics format which can be transmitted as |a text or binary file. I think we're talking apple-n-oranges here. - MIDI and Musical Notation are two differing notations for specific purposes. - Post Script is a page description language, not directly related to music. Also, it's missing several requirements to be referred to as object-oriented (but that's okay, I think I know what you mean). Post script is a nice language and all, but it is nowhere near as compact and efficient for MIDI data as a MIDI file is. A MIDI file will contain musical 'events' and controller data to reproduce the work on a MIDI device, something musician notation cannot (or at least does not currently do). How do you represent modulation to the filter (cutoff, resonance), or a bank change, or SysEx change to an LFO ramp speed in musical notation? You can't. More than anything though, MIDI captures everything, all of the player's nuances (though in a fairly granular form at times, eh?). On the other hand, there isn't a specific MIDI event for a 'rest' (though one can certainly be extrapolated from an imported MIDI file). So when you're done with MIDI and want to *publish* it as music, a notation program takes your music into this realm. From a notation program, Post Script would be an excellent language to store the work in. It's true that at this point, MIDI doesn't do a whole lot for you. |SUMMARY |While MidiFiles are ok for playback. Most notation programs can write a |MidiFile but do little for interpreting them. Even after postscript? So a friend sends you a PS file, you can load it into your notation program and then generate a MIDI file? In that case, I'm mildly impressed. I would bet though, that the player nuance (a little mod-wheel action for a good sweep while bending up and cascading notes) would be a little difficult to survive the MID --> CODA --> PS --> CODA --> MID transition. |What do you think? Is this correct? Should other notation software |developers be encouraged by the electronic music community |to support the ENIGMA format? If it maintained MIDI continuous controller data and some other MIDI stuff, I'm all for it. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 19:33:56 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ethan Lindsey Subject: Re: Max evolution You wrote: >With all of this discussion of Max, I thought that I would throw in my two cents. >IRCAM still supports the NeXT version of max, but it requires the ISPW board, a hefty $$ investment, but very powerful. Miller has left IRCAM and is now here at UCSD. The new news on Max is that he has ported it over to the SGIs. A very shakey, buggy, not-releasable version exists for the Indys, which I'm using on a piece right now. The amazing thing is that it all runs in software. With the quad-DACs on the Indy, this makes for a powerful combination. If you want more power, just upgrade to a more powerful SGI machine. To use IRCAM with a NeXT, howmuch money do you think I would have to spend? Is the NeXT IRCAM any better than any other system? If so, is there any specific reason. Thnx.l8r. ~r sig1 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 22:38:31 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Knight Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic i know nothing about the ENIGMA format, and only the raw basics of midi. and i cant read music notation. i am, however, a programmer by trade, and have some experience with data transfer. i would like to add my two cents to the discussion on a tranportable notation format. it would seem to me that the most important deal here is a good standard, and that one of it's main criteria should be that it has enough flexibility to carry everything anyone would want to present on a sheet of music. i think it should also be capable of carrying the midi performance data. i believe that one possible solution would be to devise a notation data format that would ride piggyback on a standard midi file. you could pull a midi file into a notation editor program that would allow you to format the midi data - define time signature, key, page breaks, etc. this data would be slaved to the midi data by time code. i believe it would not be difficult to get the editor to detect and insert rests and other performance data, such as crescendo, etc. this detection would probably not be perfect, but would operate much in the same way as the text recognition in some fax programs, it would make it's best guess, and allow you to refine and adjust as needed. in the same way as there are paint programs and picture viewers, people simply interested in reproducing enotation would just have to invest in a program that would read the midi/notation file pair, and display/print the result. said utility could also be part of, or synced to, sequencers and the like, resulting in realtime score display. and the raw midi data, of course, would always be available, so you won't lose performance data by converting to another standard. i suspect that a format such as this would provide a flexible, expandable and quick solution to a portable notation standard. quick because the hard work of designing a standard with a bandwidth wide enough ( ok, so midi is not that wide, but they're working on it.. ) has already been done, and all that is left is to add the formatting data. has this already been done ? james knight entomology department byte designs limited james@byted.com tel:604/534-0722 fax:604/534-2601 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:42:30 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sjoerd Bijleveld Subject: Re: MAX? Michael Carnes writes: -Does MAX work with FreeMidi (MOTU) or -MidiManager? I've been interested -in experimenting with it, but I already have a full suite of MOTU -programs and don't feel like blowing $1500 to get the equivalent in -Opcode stuff. I know some readers will say there are no equivalents -between MOTU and Opcode -- please desist. The FreeMidi software comes with an *OMS emulator*. This emulator has worked fine within my FreeMidi Performer/Unisyn and MAX setup. wg Sjoerd Bijleveld e-mail: s.w.bijleveld@bk.tudelft.nl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:00:12 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Guy Van Belle Subject: Re: MAX? In-Reply-To: <199412011726.AA02034@mserv.rug.ac.be> Hello. We are Youg Farmers Claim Future and we describe ourselves as a computer music band. We have been using MAX as the major language in which we developed a performance/composition/studio - environment. Interactive and realtime because we want to be hip. And because it is fun to bang a MAX button to set the place on fire. We have been working with MAX on Macs (because Apples are for Farmers) and occasionaly on NeXt (in IRCAM par example) for the last 4 years now and we built things like doppler-effect simulators, scratch-objects for controlling 9 cd-roms simultaneously (spin it backwards and you hear the devil), ... We also built editors for all possible parameters in our tone generators (Waldorf and Yamaha, ART effect units, Proteus, ...). We integrated them in the 'sequencer' part of our environment so that, while you are playing you compose with sound changes over time, structural units from 1 sound to too many, sentences, changes that affect whole pieces, etc ... Recently we are working on a couple of projects to work with genetic algorithms (breed your sounds while you have your coffee break), interactive stories (with movies and computer voice synthesis for the characters - software actors) etc ... MAX comes in handy. If something doesn't work you build your own testtools on the fly. And after you manage to get through the easy part (step in) and the rough part (how the hell can I make this in MAX), you have a piece of software that you connect with everything else that you alsready have. Thanks to MAX we are happier persons than without, even if we sometimes miss some sleep because of it. And I guess the new MAX version will be out soon. Rumours are that it is ported to UNIX or so. But what the hell, I can still get on with my current projects. It is true music comes alive again, because you are not stuck with fixed sequencer¬ation&editing philosophies. You break it open and deal with the possibilities of the machines and the abstract ideas behind your new piece. We work with 3 to 5 Macs, networked, running MAX and exchanging data of all kind. We even steal a nice 'line' from someone else in the performance and mutate and recycle it instantly to something else. Like we do in real life. And you can keep on nagging about other languages which are so and so and better (LISP, C, ...) but I am just a Young Farmer and I want to plug in my computer mouse, boot up the gear and perform a piece. And MAX supports that style. Thanks, Miller Cort David and all the rest currently involved in expanding the possibilities of the program. YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF YOUNG FARMERS CLAIM FUTURE Herbert Van de Sompel Guy c. Jules Van Belle Herbert.VandeSompel@rug.ac.be Guy.VanBelle@rug.ac.be YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF-YFCF ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:02:53 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Re Carpal Tunnel >"There are lots of good Qigong exercises which open up the acupressure points through the hands" >Any reccomendations here for learning these? A good teacher. I doubt one can learn such detailed "internal" arts from books, and am not convinced it could be done by videos; for example, the form I'm learning at the moment requires a lot of consideration to the way the shoulderblades and spine work. As things get more advanced, it becomes less visible. I suggest a *good* Taiji teacher. The US is full of Taiji, but there's a lot of junk around, I expect. Danger signs: flowery choreography and handwork, soft music, windchimes, healing crystals, pet rocks. A chinese teacher would probably be a good idea, if you can grok the mindset... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:05:25 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: MAX? >Does MAX work with FreeMidi (MOTU) or MidiManager? It talks to OMS and to MIDI Manager (it provides six input and six output ports). It'll work without OMS, but I don't know whether you'll still get MIDI Manager linkup. >I already have a full suite of MOTU >programs and don't feel like blowing $1500 to get the equivalent in Opcode stuff. I moved from MOTU to Opcode for various reasons, one of them being the desire to use MAX and not fight with three competing MIDI operating systems and various interfaces. I'd still prefer to use Performer over Vision, but I don't regret the move. I've never used FreeMIDI (although I have a copy here) and don't know how complete it is. MOTU's UK distributor is so complacent that it's hard to keep up to date on releases of their products. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:16:09 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jackie Long Subject: physical modelling I am sending this to both emusic-l and synth-l so I apologise if you get it twice! My own interest is in signal processing with applications to music. I play the violin (sort of) for fun and, like many other electronic engineers, have a considerable interest in music. I am just putting together a plan for a research project which aims to set up computer models of musical instruments in a way which attempts to represent their physical parameters. It is intended that these parameters can be changed by the user. As a result, the significance of the various physical parameters and their effect on the sound produced by the instrument would be determined. Mechanical and real instrument rigs will be built together with an analytical subsystem. The project is ambitious and will involve several researchers over 2 or 3 years (assuming adequate funding can be obtained). It is thought that such a system could be adapted for use by instrument makers and restorers either as a database or a user-friendly subsystem itself. At some stage I should also like to incorporate the effects of various types of wood, brass finishes, cleaning, oiling, staining, preserving, etc. I should be very pleased to hear from anyone who might be ionterested in the principles of such a project and any comments and suggestions you might have from your own area of interest. Jackie Long j-long@csd.uwe.ac.uk fax: +44 (0)272 763873 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 08:36:36 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Kevan L. Moore" Subject: Re: physical modelling >I am just putting together a plan for a research project which aims to set up computer models of musical instruments in a way which attempts to represent their physical parameters. It is intended that these parameters can be changed by the user. As a result, the significance of the various physical parameters and their effect on the sound produced by the instrument would be determined. Mechanical and real instrument rigs will be built together with an analytical subsystem. you've just re-invented the yamaha VF-1, but if YOU can give more than 2-note polyphony for less than $4000 you've got my vote. klm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:27:09 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Subject: Re: MAX? In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:05:25 +0000 from Regarding the Opcode vs. MOTU (OMS vs. FreeMIDI) and MAX... I too have been disillusioned with MOTU's support and I'm in the states. It is very hard to get to them when there's a problem and they have a history of orphaning their own product (Professional Composer). After ProComp 2.3M was released it was abandoned for over a year (while they were developing Mosiac). Those of us using ProComp were left with a static product and Finale 2.0 just released. I jumped ship because ProComp couldn't do what I needed with my music. The final insult was when Mosaic was released and MOTU offered an upgrade path for ProComp users for $199; I had already spent $250 on Finale! I inherited a university studio with MOTU products but I've purchased Opcode where I can and I'm considering a total switch as funds allow. I also like Performer's musicianly interface but without support it's just pretty to look at! Have others had similar problems with MOTU? Any other solutions? Later ************************************************************************ Dr. James Paul Sain jsain@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Director of Electroacoustic Music (904)392-9313/voice University of Florida (904)392-0461/fax PO BOX 117900 PENTIUM: for those who don't always need five Gainesville, FL 32611 signigicant digits! ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:49:27 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: physical modelling >At some stage I should also like >to incorporate the effects of various types of wood, brass finishes, cleaning, oiling, staining, preserving, etc. I think this is very probably the least-well-understood portion of the instrument-making craft. Any useful data you get here, simply from trying different manufacturing methods, will probably be very valuable in and of itself. >I should be very pleased to hear from anyone who might be ionterested in the principles of such a project and any comments and suggestions you might have from your own area of interest. I've forgotten now who it was who has been attempting to recreate the conditions under which the materials used by Stradavarius were stored, amde, and used - as I recall, he's soaked the spruce, and has added jewel powder to the varnish, getting remarkably similar results. Now as to WHY this makes such a difference... It's a fascinating area for research, and it seems to me that it would certainly be informative. The problem is, I would guess, trying to choose a particular focus toward which one would work. There are an awful lot of instruments, and an awful lot of variables in each one. ObEMUSIC: As has been mentioned, Bob Moog used to go through the machines on the production line and pick out "more musical" ones. It would be interesting to look into exactly why some would be better than others, since they were assembly-line manufactured with standard parts. We've speculated in a desultory manner here, with chaotic interactions among the components being the front-runner among the ideas put forward. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:51:22 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Subject: Re: physical modelling In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 2 Dec 1994 14:16:09 +0000 from Regarding Phycsical Modeling...check of the work of J.O. Smith and Peryy Cook at Stanford's CCRMA before you reinvent their wheel (and spend a lot of time doing so). Also check on the Yamaha VL1 and VP1. ************************************************************************ Dr. James Paul Sain jsain@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Director of Electroacoustic Music (904)392-9313/voice University of Florida (904)392-0461/fax PO BOX 117900 PENTIUM: for those who don't always need five Gainesville, FL 32611 signigicant digits! ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:00:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Crystal Subject: Re: MAX? >Regarding the Opcode vs. MOTU (OMS vs. FreeMIDI) and MAX... >I too have been disillusioned with MOTU's support and I'm in the states. >************************************************************************ >Dr. James Paul Sain jsain@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu >Director of Electroacoustic Music (904)392-9313/voice >University of Florida (904)392-0461/fax >PO BOX 117900 PENTIUM: for those who don't always need five >Gainesville, FL 32611 signigicant digits! >************************************************************************ Actually, I've found MOTU support about the best of any emusic company I've dealt with. I never use the phone, depending instead on email directly to their tech support people. They ALWAYS respond within a day or two, and have been very accommodating. The email address I use is UNICORN@AppleLink.Apple.COM Try it. You may find you have better luck this way. Jon Crystal University of Vermont 357 Waterman Burlington, VT 05405 email: jcrystal@moose.uvm.edu phone: 802 656-1163 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:09:48 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: S94 Subject: AWE32 Does anybody know of a decent editor for the AWE 32. I here that Creative Labs are bringing a software package out called Vienna which should be quite powerful. The AWE is an excellent synth but at the moment all I can do is use it as a sample playback module. Also could you tell me if there is a way of splitting my outputs from my AWE/waveblaster. I know it has an SPDIF on the board (digital out). I want to add effects to different things such as drums, strings etc but can't at the moment. Cheers Ben ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:09:54 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: physical modelling In-Reply-To: <9412021419.AA25196@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 17 X-Sun-Content-Length: 840 Boy oh boy, are you in for it. Physical modelling is the Holy Grail of synthesis and is extremely hard to do. I can recommend a few places for you to look. 1. The Yamaha VL synthesizers. First commercial synths to do physical modelling. I heard a quartet of them at AES and was seriously underimpressed. Didn't even sound like a recording of the instruments. 2. McGill University in Canada. There was a startup out of the university a few years back. They tried to bring a modelling synth to market but it never saw the light of day. I believe there is still ongoing research at the university. 3. Computer Music Journal. While it often appeals more to the weenie than to the musician, there have been a few articles concerning modelling over the years (MIT Press, Cambridge MA). Good luck. Let us know when you're shipping... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:22:49 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: MAX? In-Reply-To: <9412021450.AA26205@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 16 X-Sun-Content-Length: 987 I too have found it very hard to get to MOTU by phone. I have taken to using email instead (UNICORN@AppleLink.Apple.COM). If I give them a good text description of my problem, I usually hear back from them within a day or two. It may be just professional courtesy (take a look at where I work), but it sure beats waiting on the phone. At the same time, I'll bet it's easier to analyze the problem with a good written description in front of them, so it could be better all the way around. You'll have to take this for what it's worth, since I have no OMS experience. But I like FreeMidi quite a bit. I have found it to be quite robust and it does some very nifty things to help me integrate my studio. I have found that MOTU often does small upgrades that aren't always announced, but they're always happy to send them out if I ask. I think it's a pity that Opcode and MOTU couldn't put aside their differences and adopt a single standard, but I'm quite happy with what I've got. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:26:05 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Van Rees Subject: Re: physical modelling >I am sending this to both emusic-l and synth-l so I apologise if you get it twice! >My own interest is in signal processing with applications to music. I play the violin (sort of) for fun and, like many other electronic engineers, have a considerable interest in music. >I am just putting together a plan for a research project which aims to set up computer models of musical instruments in a way which attempts to represent their physical parameters. It is intended that these parameters can be changed by the user. As a result, the significance of the various physical parameters and their effect on the sound produced by the instrument would be determined. Mechanical and real instrument rigs will be built together with an analytical subsystem. >The project is ambitious and will involve several researchers over 2 or 3 years (assuming adequate funding can be obtained). It is thought that such a system could be adapted for use by instrument makers and restorers either as a database or a user-friendly subsystem itself. At some stage I should also like to incorporate the effects of various types of wood, brass finishes, cleaning, oiling, staining, preserving, etc. >I should be very pleased to hear from anyone who might be ionterested in the principles of such a project and any comments and suggestions you might have from your own area of interest. >Jackie Long >j-long@csd.uwe.ac.uk >fax: +44 (0)272 763873 If i'm not mistaken Yamaha has already introduced a synthesizer, which features a sound-creation much like you describe. I think it is called the VX-1 or something like that (V for virtual). It's incredibly expensive, but Yamaha is working out models for mid- and low-end users, according to my info. Peter van Rees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:38:34 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: MAX? In-Reply-To: <9412020842.AA15952@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 2 X-Sun-Content-Length: 166 Thanks for your tip of the OMS emulator in FreeMidi. I didn't know of anyone who had actually used it, especially in a Performer/MAX setup. Now I'm really tempted... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:08:18 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: AISRILEY@ACS.EKU.EDU Subject: Re: AWE32 Ben write: >Does anybody know of a decent editor for the AWE 32. I here that Creative Labs are bringing a software package out called Vienna which should be quite powerful. The AWE is an excellent synth but at the moment all I can do is use it as a sample playback module. Vienna is available via FTP site FTP.EARTHLINK.NET and also on Creative Labs site FTP.CREAF.COM. It's a little buggy but workable. There is also another editor on the EARTHLINK site called ESBK(?). >Also could you tell me if there is a way of splitting my outputs from my AWE/waveblaster. I know it has an SPDIF on the board (digital out). I want to add effects to different things such as drums, strings etc but can't at the moment.veblaster. Not sure if I'm answering this correct but the only way I have been able to split the outputs is to pan the Drums (for example) to the left and everything else right. Then apply effects to the desired channel. Sorry if I have mis-read your question. Take care, Ed n ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:28:00 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt Smith Subject: Re: physical modelling >I am just putting together a plan for a research project which aims to set up computer models of musical instruments in a way which attempts to represent their physical parameters... I sent a similar message to this about a month ago but recieved no replies. if there's anyone out there doing research into physical modelling of musical intruments (particularly the trumpet) and wish to exchange information, i'd be really grateful if they could get in contact with me... -maTT- email: m.j.smith@acoustics.salford.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:06:58 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Thomas DiGiovanni Subject: Re[2]: Yahama VL & VX series (phys. modeling) In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of FRI 02 DEC 1994 10:20:28 EST Does anyone have any more information about the VL or the VX series of Yamaha synths? It seems like the capabilities of them are incredible, but I don't know anything about them. -Tom D. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:44:00 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt Smith Subject: PC sound cards can anyone recommend to me a PC sound card with good, basic 16-bit sound but without the built-in 4watt amps, plasticy mics, onboard awful fm synth.... thanks -maTT- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 16:55:00 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt Smith Subject: physical modelling (addresses please!) does anyone know if the below are on-line... Yamaha McGill University in Canada. thanx -maTT- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:27:34 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Elsea Subject: SUMMARY - COMPOSITION Bo Newman writes: >The notation program that >most publishers of music us is [?CUbase?] Score (its for pcs) The music publishers' preferred program is Leland Smith's SCORE. It is a DOS application, fairly hard to learn (although the interface has been greatly improved in recent versions.)but extremely powerful. It's the only program I've heard of that is capable of those wierd curved staves of Satie and Berio. Things like cross staff slurring are duck soup. It is the only one that is compatable with real typsetters. (When most publishers get a piece in finale, they pay someone to translate it into score.) It has only rudimentry MIDI features (It'll play a single line for proofing, and you can use a MIDI keyboard for step time entry.) SCORE is available from: San Andreas Press 3732 Laguna St Palo Alto CA 94306 (415) 856-9394 cost is $825. Peter Elsea UCSC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:39:21 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: PC sound cards PC sound cards: sounds like a good topic for SYNTH-L. -jk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 15:25:58 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Kevan L. Moore" Subject: digitech's blunder hello all. i'm sorry, but i've got to vent this. A few years ago, Digitech came out with the VHM5, Vocalist. Man did it take off. Human-sounding harmonies. Musically *very* useful. I had one problem with it: they could have made it a pitch-to-midi converter. Here they KNEW the note that you sang into it. They could have added some thresholds to determine when the note started & stopped, and sent MIDI note-on and note-off information. Well, they didn't have it so I wrote the a polite letter offering to do the enhancement (i'm an engineer myself) at no charge other than a buck-a-box sold. Now they come out with the Studio Vocalist. 20-20K freq. response, individual XLR outs, 48v phantom power, data wheel, 8 buttons worth of chord variations. $995 list .... .................... *STILL* no pitch-to-midi out. Can you imagine how valueable a tool it would be to sing a C3 into a microphone, and out comes the mormon tabernacle choir singing a C major chord; sing a C2 and out comes the choir singing a C minor chord; or a pipe organ, or string symphony, or all of them, JUST BY SINGING ONE NOTE. They HAVE the information. A *LITTLE* more effort and they'd have an inCREDible tool. I'm SURE i'm not the only one asking for that, because back a few years ago when I suggested it, the guy said, "Yeah, that's a common request." Sure there's a delay to determine the pitch (so Don't use percussive synth sounds) and sliding your voice from one pitch to another would be tough to interpret (so the user selects stability thresholds), but come ON! well, at least maybe a lot of people will be selling their Vocalist IIs in hopes of a new-improved Studio Vocalist and I'll get a good deal. That just kills me that they didn't bother with such an EASY *** POWERFUL *** enhancement. Lotta return on a little effort. bummer. kevan l moore ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:05:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Bourgouin, Gaetan" Subject: Re: apologize for my English Chris (Vienna / Austria) wrote: ......Finally, I want to apologize if my English is not always clear in expression. You don't have to apologize as i have no problem to read you . I have the same problem , my mother tongue is french and i may be doing mistakes with phrases . But i don't care ,cause i like speaking to others and exchanging points of views . We all are on that list for one thing we like, "MUSIC". Even if we are from different countries . It's a pleasure for me to be on the same list with guys like you from all over the world. Gaetan Bourgouin gbourgou@po2.mtl.marconi.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 22:09:29 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Re: Midi Files yes, there is a midi standard file that will work on whatever computer, you just need to be sure that you save your file in this format, and that the program you are loading it into accepts them. Most do, but for some you have to choose "import" instead of "open." Also, when taking things from the IBM to the Mac, you sometimes have to change the file type (the 3 to 4 letter code imbedded in the file) which you can easily do with ResEdit. --macbruin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 22:17:41 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Music on Power-PC Although the Power-PC Macs have 16-bit sound built in, I have not seen any programs (like sample editors, harddisk recorders, etc) that take advantage of this. Most programs will only work with "AV" computers, and this is frustating to me because I have a regular PowerMac. Is there any way to get around this, or do I have to upgrade to an AV? I figured that since it had 16-bit sound, that would be enough. I certainly have plenty of memory and HD. What additional sound capabilites do AV PowerMacs have over regular ones? Is anyone out there working with a regular Power Mac, and do they know of any programs that take advantage of the sound capibilites? Any advice on this subject would be much appreciated. Reply to E-MUSIC or direct to: Macbruin@aol.com P.S. Anyone know of a Macintosh-specific music forum on the net? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 23:47:56 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: kenneth lee hankins Subject: tiny complaint - please read In-Reply-To: i like this list and am subscribed to the emusic and synth ones. i read all of the articles, well skim most. hehehe, here is my complaint: when i log in and check my mail it is alwas up in the 80 new message mark (mainly in the morning) but id say a good sum of these are DOUBLES because when subscribers reply to messages the get lazy (i am assuming this - i may be wrong) in any case they send a response to all recipients which in turn sends thier letter to the to address and carbon copy - sending the message TWICE:) im not trying to be anal (if i am sorry) but this little 'mistake' crowds my mail box (i only have a 2400 baud modem so you know how tedious it gets to check my mail). my request is to please stop the carbon copies, thanks ken hankins ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 23:27:40 +0000 Reply-To: stevenc@vista.hevanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: steven cantor Subject: freemidi oms emulator : motu's mosaic and studio vision well, the subject line was a failed attempt to say it all.... will the oms emulator included in freemidi included in the mosaic notation software package from m.o.t.u. allow for the importing and exporting of files between mosaic and studio vision? thanks in advance, s. steven l. cantor stevenc@vista.hevanet.com _________________________________________________________________________ the wild geese do not intend to cast their shadow the water has no mind to receive their image ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 11:10:00 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: pitch to midi and the like Does anyone out there have any input about any pitch to midi converters that are available (preferably in the lower price ranges). I know that Roland makes/made one. Do these things work? Is it worth the invest ment? What about a guitar/midi interface. I know that one is built into the oland guitar synths, but those are a bit to expensive for my starving musician blood. I write a lot of guitar music and inputing that info. into Finale takes forever -- I have to figure out the chord voicings on piano and then play them in correctly. While my piano chops are improving slowly, my guitar chops are much better. A direct line of input into the computer would cut my worktim e significantly. Any suggestions? Any solutions that are, perhaps, outside of the proverbial nine dots that I haven't thought of yet? Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Craig ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 06:48:47 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Music on Power-PC Hi folks, ever noticed how Apple just put sound on their gear? For some of us, more slots would be better so that high-quality A/D boards (if they exist) could be used, or boards which connect to high-quality boards. What do you think about Mac's A/Ds? Regards, David ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 06:51:34 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: tiny complaint - please read Hi Ken, that ain't anal (and I've never met anyone who explained what _that_ expression means anyway). I too have a 2400 baud modem (few $!). Suggestion: how about > for only those bits of messages to which you wish to reply or take issue with directly. That way, we can follow an argument with- out wading through the rest of it. Thanks, David ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:20:10 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathan Waddoups Subject: Re: pitch to midi and the like In-Reply-To: <199412031911.AA29888@halcyon.com> On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Craig Marks wrote: >Does anyone out there have any input about any pitch to midi converters that are available (preferably in the lower price ranges). I know that Roland makes/made one. They have a few, actually... >Do these things work? Is it worth the invest ment? What about a guitar/midi interface. I know that one is built into the oland guitar synths, but those are a bit to expensive for my starving musician blood. I bought a Roland GR-50 and pickup, used, for about $650. You might look into that option. >I write a lot of guitar music and inputing that info. into Finale takes forever -- I have to figure out the chord voicings on piano and then play >them in correctly. While my piano chops are improving slowly, my guitar chops are much better. A direct line of input into the computer would cut my worktim >e significantly. Any suggestions? Any solutions that are, perhaps, outside of >the proverbial nine dots that I haven't thought of yet? Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Craig Suggestion: get on the Digital Guitar Digest mailing list. Send mail to the guy who manages it, Paolo V, at pvallado@ucsd.edu, and let him know you're interested. Maybe include some of the same questions you posed here. Hope this helps. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:26:03 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathan Waddoups Subject: Re: tiny anal complaints In-Reply-To: <199412031952.AA03775@halcyon.com> On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, David Rodger wrote: >Hi Ken, >that ain't anal (and I've never met anyone who explained what _that_ expression means anyway). I too have a 2400 baud modem (few $!). It's from a psychology, specifically Freud. He had these stages of development associating body parts to behavior patterns, and the anal stage is supposedly over-concerned with little details, basically. >Suggestion: how about > for only those bits of messages to which you wish to reply or take issue with directly. That way, we can follow an argument with- out wading through the rest of it. This is an excellent idea, for all kinds of electronic communication (email, lists, usenet, whatever). Hope this enlightens, Nathan "I'm so anal-retentive, I lie awake at night wondering if it's supposed to be spelled with or without a hyphen" Waddoups --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 03:11:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Jody Whitesides." Subject: Re: digitech's blunder I used to live in Utah (the home of digitech), and actually owned a piece of their equipment. However, whenever I tried to do anything that required contact with them, it was a pain in the ass. I've met a few of the people that work their and met the owners at one time. Not the most receptive people I've ever met. One the original owners split off and created the ROLLS corp. They have midi pedals (mighty fine ones at that), and such. However in an attempt to get them to better their product I got a very rude and pricey response. To say the least I no longer use or suggest use of digitech or DOD products, this is IMO because cheap products that sound just that, cheap (no flames please, this is my opinion). But despite my dealings with ROLLS I still think they make a fine midi switching system. Chuss! Jody Whitesides / "Its what's played between the notes that is golden" / Amalgam@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 06:18:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BrianVideo@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic#5 First, some clarification. What I meant by: "Most notation programs can write a MidiFile but do little for interpreting them." was that I know of no notation program that can read a postscript file as anything but a picture. Most import EPS file for use as graphics on the page like a publishers logo. Therefore, PostScript data is musically useless execpt for simply display and print. Second, some more clarification. I personally detest PostScript. It is not very standard standard (I know, I work in graphics) and it is not nearly as efficient as it should be. My point is that if we are just going to send an image of what the music on the page looks like we need a notational standard which supports accurate placement of musical symbols in resolution-independent format. Most any resolution-independent format can print at higher resolution than a bitmaped format like FAX, GIF, JPEG, (name your favorite compressor). In many cases (depending on the resolution of the bitmaped format) the resolution-independent format will have a smaller file size. This is sort of analogous to the difference between a MIDIFile and a recorded sample. I would much prefer Common Ground, Acrobat, or even QuickDraw GX PDD as a resolution independent DISPLAY and PRINT ONLY format for music notation. ---------------------- Back to our storyx I like where this is going. I agree that there SHOULD be separate data for notation and performance. A performer rarely plays a note exactly when and like the music says. But you should also be able to edit BOTH types of data. Any format which only describes the way a page looks (PostScript, Common Ground, Acrobat, QuickDraw GX PDD) will never be tranposed into another key (for example) and while a MIDIFile is useful for a performance, the notation it yeilds is much too simplistic to offer consistent output from system to system. A combination of a MIDIFile AND a page description format (take your pick) lets you do everything except edit the music notation: + Hear the performance + Edit the performance + See the music - CAN'T edit the music :-( So much for making any changes to the music while retaining the notation. Don't we need to keep the slurs, stacattos, textual remarks, etc., even when we want to transpose one of the parts or change the clef? What are our options? Even though Finale can store original performance data (pitch bend, AfterTouch, etc.) in addition to the notation, I'm not sure it ENIGMA supports the performance data. Anyways, I wouldn't think any developer except for Coda wants to see a format like "Finale" become HE standard. Even selling them on ENIGMA could be tough. I'm not even sure if Finale or ENIGMA is binary compatible across platforms. Can anyone help out here? I think that the MIDIFile today is fine for performance data and a good start for transmitting notational data. Should the MIDIFile format be enhanced to include notation? Either way, I think there should be robust, editable, resolution-independent notational data included with a MIDI performance in a single file. Call it MIDIFile+Notation? ENIGMIDI? What do you think? B Shaw :-) Dreamspace@AOL.COM AKA BrianVideo@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 05:48:27 -0600Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Edmond Calderon Subject: guitars & modules Can someone please explain to me what a module is/does? I have a midi-capable guitar processor but I can't hear playback through Cakewalk Apprenti (naturally the guitar has no speak lilike my keyboard) dowould eould even be satisfied if I could hear playback through my computer speakers (at en the gamThank game) Thanks in advance. Edmond ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 16:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Any List for Performer? (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 12:52:53 -0800 From:BEKEN@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Any List for Performer? Does anyone know about a list for Performer software users? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 21:53:02 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jack Codron Subject: Proteus Patches I own a Proteus 1 XR, I am Looking for some Beefy B3 patches and or some Clavenet Patches. Is there a FTP site for such a thing???? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 22:00:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Re: Proteus Patches the proteus 1/xr already has a few b3 patches..i don't quite remember where but they are in there. phil sps5251@siena.bitnet] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 23:23:55 -500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bob Needham Subject: Software advice needed I hope nobody considers this off-topic, and I hope it hasn't already been covered to death here, but I need some advice. I want to get some decent digital-audio-plus-MIDI-sequencing software. I have a Mac Quadra 660AV, and I've basically narrowed the options down to Opcode's Studio Vision AV and OSC's Deck II plus Metro. I'd really like to hear from anyone with experience with either or (ideally) both of these options. I'm particularly interested in any limitations the programs might have which aren't obvious from reading the literature. If this request seems like a waste of bandwidth on the list, private replies would be welcome. Thanks in advance! ==================== Bob Needham Chelsea, Michigan bobby@oeonline.com "Someday, everything is gonna be different--when I paint my masterpiece." -Dylan ==================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:21:20 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Software advice needed Hi Bob,>I want to get some decent >digital-audio-plus-MIDI-sequencing software. (whoops, mucked up the layout). This may be more appropriate for synth-l listserver. Mail listserver@american.edu and write "subscribe synth-l " emusic-l is supposed to be about electronic music issues rather than gear. You'll find lots of gearheads on synth-l! Keep tuned here, though. Some interesting stuff happens, like conversations about Partch and Xenakis. Right emusicers? Regards, David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 05:22:34 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Shaw Subject: Re: Music on Power-PC #2 Given the Subj of this message I assume you're talking about PowerMac. The PowerMac's A/Ds kind of suck compared to any kind of pro gear but they're pretty good compared to most computer audio gear. One problem is setting levels in the sound manager 3.0 control panel. It's kind of confusing as to what controls what. I think their D/As are better than their A/Ds and I think the audio is the same on all of the PowerMacs. I have used the PowerMac to playback 16-bit 44k audio which was recorded using AudioMedia II on another machine and it sounded pretty darn good. I haven't made any scientific observations. One cool thing is that you can transfer data digitally from an Audio CD directly into a Mac sound file. Apple's software does actually use the Audio A/Ds to transfer audio from CDs but software from OMI and FWB will tranfer it digitally (even without a PowerMac) Does anyone know of any software to read digital audio data from an audio DAT using a 4mm tape backup drive? B Shaw ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:27:59 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mon-chu Chen Subject: Re: Music on Power-PC #2 In-Reply-To: <9412051027.AA28970@cc.nctu.edu.tw> from "Brian Shaw" at Dec 5, 94 05:22:34 am >directly into a Mac sound file. Apple's software does actually use the Audio A/Ds to transfer audio from CDs but software from OMI and FWB will tranfer it digitally (even without a PowerMac) What I know is "Apple's QuickTime can transfer audio from CDs digitally". After QuickTime version 1.6, you can simply use the SimpleText, the newer version of TeachText, to transfer your music into QuickTime files throught SCSI port, not the CD-ROM's DAC then Mac's ADC. By using certain softwares, the quicktime files can be converted to any types of sound files. -- Bamboo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 07:43:38 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: Software advice needed In-Reply-To: <9412050426.AA19361@julian.uwo.ca> On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Bob Needham wrote: >I have a Mac Quadra 660AV, >and I've basically narrowed the options down to Opcode's Studio Vision AV and OSC's Deck II plus Metro. >I'd really like to hear from anyone with experience with either or (ideally) both of these options. I'm particularly interested in any limitations the programs might have which aren't obvious from reading the literature. Two complaints about SV. I have a Quadra 840AV with 32 meg RAM, and if I try to play back two audio tracks, the program doesn't crash, but it give me an error message -7000 and stop playing back to audio tracks. Two play back more than one audio track I think you'll need a seperate hard drive for audio data than you use to run the program. SV seems to have some problems with OMS. I can run Performer and MAX together and have them communicate with MAX, but SV and MAX don't work together (MAX will receive MIDI from SV, but not vice versa). The Opcode tech couldn't do it on his machine either and says he thinks it must be a bug in SV. I don't like the Vision part of Studio Vision much either, but maybe that's just me. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 09:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Thom Subject: Re: tiny anal complaints Gee, I thought you guys were complaining about tiny anuses. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Conner Subject: Waldorf Patches?!?!?!?!?!?!? I was wondering if anyone had any information about where I could retrieve sysex patches for the Waldorf Microwave? Thank you, Chris... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 23:22:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phillip Djwa Subject: Re: Software advice needed >I hope nobody considers this off-topic, and I hope it hasn't already been covered to death here, but I need some advice. I want to get some decent digital-audio-plus-MIDI-sequencing software. I have a Mac Quadra 660AV, and I've basically narrowed the options down to Opcode's Studio Vision AV and OSC's Deck II plus Metro. I have Deck II plus Metro, although I seem to use Vision more extensively than Metro. Deck II will give you six tracks of audio, although a large HD is really important if you regularly want to use all 6 tracks. How many tracks does Studio vision have? I thought it had only two? I've found Deck okay, not incredible, but okay. I regularly have strange problems with it that seem to unexplainable, such as bizarre "hits" during playback, random crashes etc. I run absolutely NO init's excepted the requirements. Also, the fact that it all gets mixed down to stereo out means no track processing (unless you record each track or bounce record with new effects). The last problem for me was the fact that there are no digital ins. I have a DAT and can't dump digitally into the computer except for CD. Seems to give some amount of hiss, both on the way in and the way out. I find these problems awkward, but workable. The general feel of it is fairly user-friendly, but a little slow. I guess it does have to do a tremendous amount of processing. Still, if anyone has used Protools when it's functioning (if and when!) then Deck does feel a little clunky. There are some annoying features such as the Library feature that could have been better designed, but it does work once you understand the limitations. It just doesn't do what seems natural to my mind (which could be the reason why! ;-) The manuals pretty badly written, although I bought an earlier version of deck and then upgraded so perhaps the manual's been re-written. As for the MIDI sequencing, I have mostly made the files in Vision and imported them. That works great, and is really interesting. You can import both kinds of MIDI files. I haven't really liked the feel of Metro and so haven't really got the feel of it yet. Off-hand, I've been put off by it's "cute-ness" but I'm sure that's only skin-deep. There was an in-depth report on Deck II in a keyboard magazine a while ago.. I'll see if I can find the right month and let you know. You could always check their index. Overall, the ability to have 6 trks digital (8 if you have an 840AV) is pretty amazing. I like Deck, but I'm aware of the extra time I need to budget to work with it..quite a bit extra as far as I'm concerned. Lastly, I did have on two occasions audio files develop a "pop" of sound. I eliminated the problem by rerecording the sessions, but it was almost a day or two after the original recording that these problems developed! I do use Autodoubler, but not on the folder with all the deck stuff in it. (yeah, it seems that compressing the files screws them up as far as Deck is concerned -- is this true in other's experience too?) Other than that it could have been my disk was fragmented..which often happens with the AV model it seems. (Too many damn huge files) Hope this helps, Phillip ************************************* Phillip Djwa ---- djwa@iear.arts.rpi.edu http://www.rpi.edu/~djwap/index.html **********(((((((( 0 ))))))))))************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 11:54:26 18000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Gelb Subject: Re: Waldorf Patches?!?!?!?!?!?!? In-Reply-To: <199412051654.AA09381@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu>; from "Chris Conner" at Dec 5, 94 11:27 am >I was wondering if anyone had any information about where I could retrieve sysex patches for the Waldorf Microwave? >Thank you, >Chris... Have you tried the ftp site at ftp.waldorf-gmbh.de phil -- Tallahassee New Music Festival: January 11-14 featuring Shaking Ray Levis, Gino Robair, Jill Burton, Jim O'Rourke, LaDonna Smith, Davey Williams, Yi Yi Wang, Philip Gelb, Gregor Harvey, Scott Walton, Trudy Morse, Tina Stringfellow, Dana Reason, and Gustavo Matamoros. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 10:43:06 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: kenneth lee hankins Subject: Re: tiny anal complaints In-Reply-To: On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Thom wrote: >Gee, I thought you guys were complaining about tiny anuses. shaw! when did the subject line 'morph' from 'tiny complaint - please read' to 'tiny anal complaints'? i must of had my eyes closed:P ken hankins - founder of tiny complaint ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:34:02 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rich Fox Subject: Making Mac Go 'Boom' I need to monitor the qualities of a MIDI stream aurally (no lewd misinterpretations of this, please). Does anybody know the name of a cheesy Macintosh application (shareware would be ideal) that has some onboard sounds that can be triggered by MIDI? Rich Fox M-ID Philadelphia College of Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:02:11 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: 12-tone wave sequencing! In-Reply-To: <199412050523.VAA09674@mail2.netcom.com> from "David Rodger" at Dec 5, 94 04:21:20 pm David Rodger writes-- >Hi Bob,>I want to get some decent >>digital-audio-plus-MIDI-sequencing software. >(whoops, mucked up the layout). This may be more appropriate for synth-l listserver. Mail listserver@american.edu and write "subscribe synth-l " >emusic-l is supposed to be about electronic music issues rather than gear. Well spoken. >Keep tuned here, though. Some interesting stuff happens, like conversations about Partch and Xenakis. Right emusicers? I bet Xenakis could beat Partch in a fight any day. :) But seriously folks....I heard some interesting rumors flying around that I'd like to chase down. Someone on this list wrote me and mentioned that someone ELSE on this list is using wavesequencing to do tone-row composition! This is sort of a fun concept...any elaborations forthcoming if I ask nicely? mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You mean I am not as notorious as I think I am...? Drat!" (j. rossi iii) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:28:51 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: MFLAHERT%ALBNERIC.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Roland JW-50 Workstation I have been using a Roland JW-50 Workstation fot sequencing and performance. I have found that it is not truly compatible with SMF and consequently I have no viable backup if the JW-50 ever fails. My attempt to use the Roland SC-35 midiPlayer was a disaster since my JW-50 files (saved as SMF) would not play on the unit. Does anyone have any experience with the JW-50 who will communicate and commiserate with me. I'd be interested in buying one as a backup (as opposed to starting from scratch againg and rewriting all of the sequences). Help!!! Thanks. Any ideas will be appreciated. Mike Flaherty Michael Flaherty MFLAHERT@ALBNERIC.BITNET TEACHER OF ENGLISH 11 AND GLOBAL STUDIES 10 CHATEAUGAY CENTRAL SCHOOL 518-497-6611 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 14:42:48 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathan Waddoups Subject: Re: tiny anal complaints In-Reply-To: <199412051751.AA21288@halcyon.com> On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, kenneth lee hankins wrote: >On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Thom wrote: >>Gee, I thought you guys were complaining about tiny anuses. >shaw! when did the subject line 'morph' from 'tiny complaint - please read' to 'tiny anal complaints'? i must of had my eyes closed:P >ken hankins - founder of tiny complaint It was me, in an attempt to be humorous. It's probably a good thing you had your eyes closed, since I evidently wound up sounding like an (your favorite pejorative (sp?) here) instead. Since this has absolutely nothing to do with emusic, this will be my last post on the subject. Happy holidays. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 17:38:02 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Tamayo Subject: Shopping for a synth I am currently shopping for a synth in the $2000 price range and have narrowed down my choices to the Ensoniq TS-12, Roland JV-1000, and Korg O1W/FD. I have a wide variety of musical interests, so I would like the sound library to have an even balance between acoustic patches and synth sounds. This will be my only keyboard, so I would like it to perform well as a controller. I am leaning toward the TS-12 because of its weighted-action keyboard among other things, but I'm not really familiar enough with the other two synths to know what I'll be missing if I go with the TS. Could anyone give me some advice on this (e.g. pros and cons of each synth, your personal favorite, etc.)? Thanks in advance, Mike Tamayo miket@snow.seer.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:20:34 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BIGGERSTAFF THAD LEWIS Subject: Re: Shopping for a synth In-Reply-To: <01HKAJSD0XRA9I6NVN@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Mike Tamayo wrote: >I am currently shopping for a synth in the $2000 price range and have narrowed down my choices to the Ensoniq TS-12, Roland JV-1000, and Korg O1W/FD. >I have a wide variety of musical interests, so I would like the sound library to have an even balance between acoustic patches and synth sounds. This will be my only keyboard, so I would like it to perform well as a controller. I am leaning toward the TS-12 because of its weighted-action keyboard among other things, but I'm not really familiar enough with the other two synths to know what I'll be missing if I go with the TS. Could anyone give me some advice on this (e.g. pros and cons of each synth, your personal favorite, etc.)? >Thanks in advance, >Mike Tamayo >miket@snow.seer.com Just curious- why not the K2000R? -Thad ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: MICHELLE L TIMKO Subject: Graduate Programs in Music Technology I am a senior at Clarion University in Pennsylvania majoring in Music Education. I am interested in pursuing a Master's Degree in Music Technology and Computer Music. I would like to hear from anyone who has a degree in this field. I'm interested in knowing from where you received your degree, what you are doing now, and what you wish to accomplish in Music Technology. Thank you! Michelle Timko ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 19:13:40 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: kenneth lee hankins Subject: Brother PDC-100 Can someone please explain the strengths of this sequencer, and possibly compare it to any other leading external sequencer out there. I paid $319 for mine last November 93. I understand they are discontinued now, but mine still operates like mad. Thanks, Ken Hankins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:47:47 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Sherwood Subject: Re: Sheet-Music Air Traffic#5 |From: | |I think that the MIDIFile today is fine for performance data and a good start |for transmitting notational data. Should the MIDIFile format be enhanced to |include notation? I think that this would be more efficient--a staff-nation symbol could be a small compact MIDI event like a note event, with parameters (a few bytes at best). Best of all, it would be generic (not application or platform dependent) The draw-backs for a notation program would be that it would be slower to interpret into the musical notation symbol, but once you've imported into the notation program, you could save to disk in that programs native format (faster and efficient) until you once again need to transport it, eh? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:07:59 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: 12-tone wave sequencing! mike metlay types forth: >But seriously folks....I heard some interesting rumors flying around that I'd like to chase down. Someone on this list wrote me and mentioned that someone ELSE on this list is using wavesequencing to do tone-row composition! This is sort of a fun concept...any elaborations forthcoming if I ask nicely? Well, that's sort of how it went Mike. I had Doug Wellington over a week or so back, and let him take the wavestation for a spin. And, naturally, since Doug's the guy everyone wants to bother about the 12-tone tutorial he promised (heeez gonna kill me), he has tone rows on his mind 24 hrs/day. He said 'Wow, this would be great for 12-tone composition!' Indeed an insightful man. Off he went building-little-tone-rows to my sonic dismay. When you wavesequence (as you well know) you build up a series of notes, each with a separate duration and pitch interval. When you play a note, the keyboard plays through those notes in order. You can build a wavesequence of 12 different tones, no sweat. Hit a key: it plays through the notes. Hit a fifth above: it plays through the notes transposed up a 5th. There's a mechanism to play the sequence backwards: instant retrograde. .....and so on. It seems like a great way to experiment with different tone rows in real time, offsetting rows in time, transposing, retrograding. Who needs a computer when you've got a wavestation. Fun, -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:22:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Benjamin Leon Subject: Korg Wavestation Rackmount Greetings! I have heard that the Korg WaveStation and Seq. Circuits or PPG have a common similarity in their tonal structure. Wave shaping and ?? Can anyone offer up more info about this unit?? RSVP I also understand there were different versions of this module (and Keyboard), can anyone tell me what they were and which was THE ONE to get. Any idea on price both what it was new and now used would also be appreciated. I know they were blown out of production, but there's always the chance that someone has one of these rack modules for sale or knows of a music store that has one. Please RSVP. Thanks, Bandito0@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 01:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe Holiday Subject: Re: Any List for Performer? (fwd) I am sure Mark of the Uicorn will sell one to you.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:56:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joshua Fried Subject: ASR-10 can anyone comment on the merits of Ensoniq's ASR-10 vs the great K2000X or whatever, and other mid-to-high-end samplers? I'm interested in real-time modulation, polyphony, processing, stereo sampling, and NOT very interested in vast pre-fab sample libraries. But of course, until recently very few of these boxes could do what one could with multi-track tape and many hours at the splicing block... jf@escape.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:22:00 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: wavesequencing tone-row what? Mike - The brief statement about wavesequencing tone-row stuff sounded really interesting. What the hell does it mean? If you could expand on it and explain what you meant, I'd appreciate it. By the way, awhile back someone mentioned a tutorial on 12 tone scales. Any idea who it was? Is there still a plan for that in the works? -Craig ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:39:00 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: music theory Does anybody know if a music theory list exists -- or maybe an on-line tutorial or something like that? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 03:28:23 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Jody Whitesides." Subject: 12 tone theory O.k. I would like to open a can of worms. Could anyone explain how the 12 tone system works (could it be done here on this list?)? Second, does anyone have a lot of knowledge on metric-time conversion? And can you explain how to make the jumps between two different 'times' smooth? Hope there is help for me out here. I'd like to use the info to help write some stuff on my comp. Thanx, Jody Whitesides / "Its what's played between the notes that is golden" / Amalgam@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:17:52 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: Music on Power-PC #2 In-Reply-To: <01HK9V9TQLQQ9GZGL8@asu.edu> from "Mon-chu Chen" at Dec 5, 94 08:27:59 pm >What I know is "Apple's QuickTime can transfer audio from CDs digitally". After QuickTime version 1.6, you can simply use the SimpleText, the newer version of TeachText, to transfer your music into QuickTime files throught SCSI port, not the CD-ROM's DAC then Mac's ADC. By using certain softwares, the quicktime files can be converted to any types of sound files. How? Try to get Simpletext to open an audio track as if it were a file? -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * electronics * fusion * IEEE * techno * ARS * capitalism * cyberspace * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:34:25 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stuart Astill Subject: multi-tracking on PC In-Reply-To: <"3885 Tue Dec 6 09:15:46 1994"@britain.eu.net> I'm thinking of setting up a little studio in my back bedroom. I don't really know anything about using PC as an 8-track recoding device. If I wanted to do this, and I already have a 486 PC, what would be the relative price of using upgrades to the PC as opposed to buying a standard 8 track machine (lower end of market). Please give relatives if you can, as I'm in the UK, and I've found that simply applying exchange rate to a dollar figure doesn't always help. Thanks everyone Stuart ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:37:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: wavesequencing tone-row what? In-Reply-To: <9412060824.AA19404@julian.uwo.ca> On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Craig Marks wrote: >By the way, awhile back someone mentioned a tutorial on 12 tone scales. Any idea who it was? Is there still a plan for that in the works? I know someone promised to post this tutorial, so I don't mean to steal their idea, but I'd be happy to provide a tutorial. Being more an academic than a techie, I'd like to provide some info rather than just asking a lot of stupid questions. So if people want (and the person who originally offered doesn't mind) I'll post something in about a week when my semester ends. How long do you want it to be? Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:42:16 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: music theory In-Reply-To: <9412060830.AA19911@julian.uwo.ca> On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Craig Marks wrote: >Does anybody know if a music theory list exists -- or maybe an on-line tutorial >or something like that? The Society for Music Theory has a list, but it is moderated and is open to professional and pre-professional theortist only so I doubt this is what you have in mind. If you have any specific questions, perhaps I can answer them (see my last post). I'd be happy to answer them on the list, but I think people might feel this subject matter is not appropriate. If you post a question to the list, I could respond privately to you and anyone else interested, and we could cc back and forth to save the list from inappropriate material. Or you could start your own list. Then you could be a list owner. Think of the prestige. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: 12 tone theory In-Reply-To: <9412060843.AA20650@julian.uwo.ca> On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Jody Whitesides. wrote: >O.k. I would like to open a can of worms. >Could anyone explain how the 12 tone system works (could it be done here on this list?)? If no one else bites, I'll post something next week (or maybe today if I start procrastinating. (If you have access to a university library they should have the Dictionary of 20thC Music which has a lengthy description.) >Second, does anyone have a lot of knowledge on metric-time conversion? And can you explain how to make the jumps between two different 'times' smooth? If you mean metrical modulation, generally associated with Elliott Carter, I'll post something (to you or the whole list?) when I have time. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:33:40 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ab Wilson Subject: MAX? In-Reply-To: <94Nov30.182732est.41413@gateway.morgan.com> Peter Elsea writes: >Max is a graphically oriented real time MIDI data processing environment. How much processing power does it eat? ie if you were going to use it as a keyboard controlled sequencer how many loops could it handle simultaneously on say a 68040 Mac? Ab. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:47:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: 12 tone tutorial The standard western octave is divided into 12 chromatic pitches (i.e C, C#, D ...). In a 12-tone row, the composers assigns an ordering to these pitches, for example (Webern, Op. 24): B Bb D Eb G F# G# E F C C# A. This original ordering is called the Prime Form of the row. If a composer is using only the prime form of the row, then the pitches will always occur in the above order. This would be quite boring after awhile, so there are 4 standard operations which can be performed on a row to yield different possibilities; transposition, inversion, retrograde, and retrograde inversion. To do these operations, it is useful to represent the notes in a row by numbers. The first note is assigned 0, and the subsequent notes are assigned a number based on how many semitones they are above the original note. Converting the original row to numbers, the B = 0 because it is the first note; Bb = 11 because it is 11 semitones above B; D = 3 because it is 3 semitone above B, etc. and the row becomes: 0 11 3 4 8 7 9 5 6 1 2 10 To Transpose the row by n semitones, simple add n to every note. Thus, transposed by 7 (a perfect fifth because 7 semitone = a perfect fifth), the row becomes: 7 18 10 11 15 14 16 12 13 8 9 17 Since we only want numbers from 0 - 11, all numbers > 11 are taken mod12. This means we divide the number by 12 and take the remainder. Since 18 / 12 is 1 with a remainder of 6, then 18 mod12 = 6. Similarly, 15 mod12 is 3, etc. and the row: 7 18 10 11 15 14 16 12 13 8 9 17 becomes: 7 6 10 11 3 2 4 0 1 8 9 5 Retrograde is simply the reverse order of the notes, so the Retrograde of: 7 6 10 11 3 2 4 0 1 8 9 5 is: 5 9 8 1 0 4 2 3 11 10 6 7 Inversion is trickier. Each note is inverted about the first note in the row. To invert a note x about a note y, we measure the distance from x to y, and then move the same distance in the opposite direction. For example,to invert D about C, since D is a whole step above C, inverted about C it becomes Bb, a whole step lower than C. G is a fifth above C, so, inverted about C it becomes a perfect 5th below C, which is F. Taking the prime form of our row: B Bb D Eb G F# G# E F C C# A if we invert it, B remains B (because B is 0 semitones above B, so we move it 0 semitones below B which is B0, Bb = 1 st (semitone) below -> 1 st above = C; D = 3 st above -> 3 st below = G#, and so on until we get: B C G# G Eb E D F# F Bb A C# Inversion is much simpler if we use numbers. If we take the numerical representation of the prime form: 0 11 3 4 8 7 9 5 6 1 2 10 to invert it each number, we take its complement -- that is the number with which it sums to 12. 0 + 12 = 12, but since we are taking numbers mod12, and 12 mod12 = 0 (i.e. 12 / 12 = 1 with _0_ remainder), the inversion of 0 is 0. 11 = 1 = 12; so the inversion of 11 = 1; 3 + 9 = 12 , so the inversion of 3 is 9; and the inverted row is: 0 1 9 8 4 5 3 7 6 11 10 2 Retrograde inversion is simply the reverse order of the inversion, so, to get the Retrograde Inversion of: B Bb D Eb G F# G# E F C C# A first invert it: B C G# G Eb E D F# F Bb A C# then reverse its order: C# A Bb F F# D E Eb G G# C B. These 4 operations -- Transposition, Inversion, Retrograde and Retrograde Inversion -- give 48 forms (12 of each) for any prime form. So there's your basic theory. Does it make any sense or do you want more details? There's still the problem of how does a composer decide on a row (it's certainly not a random ordering), and, once the row has been chosen, how is it used. But that's another posting (if you want more). Please excuse any errors, I haven't bothered to check this over very carefully. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:05:15 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: multi-tracking on PC >I'm thinking of setting up a little studio in my back bedroom. >I don't really know anything about using PC as an 8-track recoding device. If I wanted to do this, and I already have a 486 PC, what would be the relative price of using upgrades to the PC as opposed to buying a standard 8 track machine (lower end of market). I'm unable to give price advice, but I will note that hard disk recording requires disk storage in the gigabyte range, and something to back it up on (floppy disks are *not* a reasonable option), An ADAT or similar box would probably be a smaller initial investment; you lose the flexibility of editing that you have with a hard-disk system. Backup? Dunno. Might require a second ADAT; might be able to copy the tapes via a high-quality VCR. Anyone know? Further discussion of details should probably go to SYNTH-L; I'll cc this reply there so we can continue discussions on that list. (That's synth-l@american.edu). --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:05:27 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: FAQlet (was: emusic digest) >To: INTERNET: emusic-l@american.edu >Could someone at the listserv filter all mails with 'unsubscribe' in the subject? They start to get annoying with their prepotency. Unfortunately, we can't without going to a completely moderated list. Neither Mike nor I has time to do that. I am going to put together a FAQ list which will at the moment contain 1 question: *** How do I sign off this list? *** I will post it weekly. Any other suggestions wil be added as I have time to do it. Anyone who supplies a question WITH an answer will be credited, of course. For those who don't know the answer, it's: Send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact either Joe McMahon (xrjdm@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov) or Mike Metlay (atomic@netcom.com) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:05:34 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: wavesequencing tone-row what? >I know someone promised to post this tutorial, so I don't mean to steal their idea, but I'd be happy to provide a tutorial. Being more an academic than a techie, I'd like to provide some info rather than just asking a lot of stupid questions. So if people want (and the person who originally offered doesn't mind) I'll post something in about a week when my semester ends. How long do you want it to be? As long as you feel is necessary. In my experience, once the ball is rolling, others who have experience and insights on a topic will usually be able to expand on points in other postings. So, anyone who has something they'd like to contribute to the 12-tone discussions, please do! --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:05:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: music theory >Or you could start your own list. Then you could be a list owner. Think of the prestige. I want to unsusbscribe from the music-theory list but ...ok, ok. :) --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:34:58 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Don Newcomer Subject: Shopping for a synth I just bought a Korg 01/W pro a few months ago and love it. Admittedly I was biased since I had been using a borrowed M-1 for about 2 years. I tried the Ensoniq, Kurzweil, and a number of others and I just didn't find anything that beat that "fat" Korg sound. The sequencer is a little weak and difficult to work with but the synth suits my needs very well. Actually, I was originally shopping for an 01/W FD locally (Central PA) and ended up going to D.C. on a friend's recommendation and getting the 01/W pro for only a few dollars more than the FD locally. The 'pro' is virtually the same as the FD except you get 71 keys and a greatly enhanced set of piano and drum settings. I'd highly recommend it. Did I say I like it? ;-) =============================================================================== Don Newcomer Dickinson College newcomer@dickinson.edu P.O. Box 1773 newcomer@dickinsn.bitnet Carlisle, PA 17013 "If God is your co-pilot, switch seats!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 10:49:20 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: several small items 1: enya - i could swear that it's all juno. i mean, i get those tones all the time from the 106. and the arpeggiated stuff on watermark is a dead giveaway for the 60. are we certain she's really using anything else? although i must admit, idiot that i am, i never thought about that damned emulator. but of course... there's no other way her engineer could get those smooth swells of huge vocal tone. no wonder i've been having so many problems recreating it. i just do twelve tracks of unison lead vocal, and i was thinking of getting the dynamics by passing the submix through a foot-controlled vca during mixdown. which brings up: 2: gabriel/lanois - just how does daniel lanois get that large guitar chord sound that's the ground for the chorus in 'red rain'? i've heard about wiring a gibson to an extraordinarily loud amp but then playing it very softly. any clues? oh, and yes, i think this has something to do with emusic, so pphhppttt... 3: max/pc - oh boy, do i wish. but, in the meantime, has anyone else here played with an oddball shareware program called 'musicbox'? it's an object- oriented realtime midi processor for the pc. you get a menu of modules that add, randomize, sequence, clock, and so on, which you pick up with the mouse and wire together by clicking from outputs to inputs. no wires are drawn on the screen, and the objects are sort of floating text blocks, not graphical, so the whole thing is cryptic as hell, but once you get the hang of it, it's quite a giggle. allow me to recommend it, and if anyone has any questions on it, i'd be happy to elaborate. 4: net files - did anyone ever get around to telling that guy that all binary files available on the usenet are uuencoded and split into parts, and that there are standard protocols for dealing with this? if this is still a question here, holler, and i'll provide the: 5: faqs - i suggested a while ago that we produce a faq, but noone seemed to think it was a good enough idea to actually put any energy into. and, in retrospect, i'm not sure it would be a good idea, anyway. i mean, what would be in it? the distilled platform wars? a real one would damn near be an entire course on the basics of electronic sound. i get paid for teaching that, and it takes months. although, some stuff is standard enough to warrant a reasonably stable set of documents, i suppose. now, i believe that some of that stuff is on our own archive - like the midi protocol, and patrick tsang's (remember him?) exegesis on smpte. or at least i think i've got it somewhere, and can reload it. and we should be able to provide pointers to resources, like piet van oostrum's bibliographies and site lists, which include the ircam repository. so all we need is to get a little organized. so... any takers? i will, btw, be putting together a web page here at AU this week, that will evolve to include alot of these kinds of pointers. 6: smf/mac - let me just reiterate for the sake of clarity, because i think that a certain assumption was being made by the people who answered this question originally. the standard midi file format is the mechanism by which sequences can be traded, not only among different programs, but among different platforms. in fact, it is the only such mechanism. saving a pc-cakewalk sequence as a cakewalk sequence and attempting to load it into anything else, even on a pc, will not work. the sequence must be saved as a standard midi file, which, btw, loses some of the control information specific to the sequencer that produced it. chief among these is loop data. an smf can save either one string of data, which must then be told to loop when it is loaded into another sequencer, or it can expand that string by the number of times the loop is supposed to repeat. the smf will not store just the string, and the loop control information. further, as has been mentioned here, when going from the pc to a mac you have to drop the file through a little routine (like the 'preconformer'), that diddles the header so the make will recognize it. unless you are substantially mac-literate, do not use resedit or anything like it. there is no similar problem going the other way. as long as your mac reads and writes dos discs, you can just drop the smf onto it, and the pc sequencer will be able to load it up. 7: list stats - yeah. i'll bet my signon date is pretty much out of keeping with history. ah well. <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:53:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: 12 tone tutorial >There's still the problem of how does a composer decide on a row (it's certainly not a random ordering), and, once the row has been chosen, how is it used. But that's another posting (if you want more). Yes, please. This is where all the hard brainwork is, obviously, since all of the tonerow manipulation is just mathematical operations. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Adamson Subject: Re: several small items % Netcom, 3 from Delphi, 3 from Compuserve. The person who's been subscribed % the longest under the same address is Brian Adamson (since April 3, 1989). >7: list stats - yeah. i'll bet my signon date is pretty much out of keeping with history. ah well. Just a testimony to my lack of dynamics, anyway. 8^o oh well ... Brian ___________________________________________________________________ R. Brian Adamson Information Technology Division adamson@itd.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Laboratory NRL Code 5523 Washington, DC 20375 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: several small items >5: faqs - i suggested a while ago that we produce a faq, but noone seemed to think it was a good enough idea to actually put any energy into. and, in retrospect, i'm not sure it would be a good idea, anyway. i mean, what would be in it? the distilled platform wars? a real one would damn near be an entire course on the basics of electronic sound. i get paid for teaching that, and it takes months. although, some stuff is standard enough to warrant a reasonably stable set of documents, i suppose. Yes, I agree. EMUSIC-L covers SO much territory that a FAQ would probably be a two-volume hardcover if you printed it out. >now, i believe >that some of that stuff is on our own archive - like the midi protocol, Got it. >and patrick tsang's (remember him?) exegesis on smpte. or at least i think i've got it somewhere, and can reload it. In the archives, I think. >and we should be able to >provide pointers to resources, like piet van oostrum's bibliographies and site lists, which include the ircam repository. so all we need is to get a little organized. so... any takers? There are links to those on the EMUSIC-L WWW page. >i will, btw, be putting together >a web page here at AU this week, that will evolve to include alot of these kinds of pointers. I'm working on the EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L administrative FAQ right now; I've got pointers to a number of things on the EMUSIC-L WWW page at http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l, but I haven't finished building HTML indexs for all of the back issues, nor have I finished linking all of the info-doc-faq stuff that we DID have into those pages either. If I could just get somebody to pay me for doing this full-time... :) >7: list stats - yeah. i'll bet my signon date is pretty much out of keeping with history. ah well. Mine too, having had to move from VM to the Sun to the Convex to another Sun. :) --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 08:54:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: 12 tone theory O.k. I would like to open a can of worms. Could anyone explain how the 12 tone system works (could it be done here on this list?)? There are two books you may want to read that will get you started composing serial music. For the novice, check out Ernst Krenek's "Studies in counterpoint: based on the 12-tone technique" Then check out Chales Wuorinen's book "Simple Composition" (it's not that simple of a book, but it still is basically an introductory text-book) If you want more info, write to me privately. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:06:26 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Louis Pape Organization: Dakota State University Subject: Re: Graduate Programs in Music Technology I can't answer your questions, but I just received info from New York University that they are offering Bachelors and Masters programs in music technology. Contact them. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:17:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: 12 tone tutorial >>There's still the problem of how does a composer decide on a row (it's >>certainly not a random ordering), and, once the row has been chosen, how >>is it used. But that's another posting (if you want more). >Yes, please. This is where all the hard brainwork is, obviously, since >all of the tonerow manipulation is just mathematical operations. Actually I've always thought the brainwork comes in with how you combine different statements of the row to produce music that you want to listen to. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:09:04 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stephen David Beck Subject: SEAMUS goes On-Line SEAMUS On-Line The Society for Electro-Acoustic Music in the United States (SEAMUS) is now on-line with its ftp site at Northern Illinois University. The site contains lots of information about the society, the SEAMUS Compact Disc Series, the SEAMUS Archive, and membership applications. The site will also hold information about upcoming events and conferences. You can find SEAMUS On-Line at the following URL: ftp://nicemusic.music.niu.edu/pub/SEAMUS SEAMUS is a non-profit national organization of composers, performers, and teachers of electro-acoustic music representing every part of the country and virtually every musical style. SEAMUS seeks to provide a broad forum for those involved or interested in electronic music. Stephen David Beck President-Elect, SEAMUS School of Music Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, LA 70803 sbeck@math.lsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:24:10 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathan Waddoups Subject: Re: FAQlet (was: emusic digest) In-Reply-To: <199412061508.AA27484@halcyon.com> On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Joe McMahon wrote: >>To: INTERNET: emusic-l@american.edu >>Could someone at the listserv filter all mails with 'unsubscribe' in the subject? They start to get annoying with their prepotency. >Unfortunately, we can't without going to a completely moderated list. Are you sure you can't set up a procmail type of thing for them emusic-l account? Disclaimer: I don't know too much about how mailing lists work... >Neither Mike nor I has time to do that. I am going to put together a FAQ list which will at the moment contain 1 question: **** How do I sign off this list? *** >I will post it weekly. Any other suggestions wil be added as I have time to do it. Anyone who supplies a question WITH an answer will be credited, of course. I'd suggest the recent "12-tone systems in a nutshell" posting. I don't recall who wrote it or what the actual subject was, but it was the most info I've seen about 12-tone yet. Pretty cool. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your VCR blinks "12:00" all day long? But you're using the internet? natew@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/natew/homepage.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:02:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Mac Processor Requirements So now that I've babbled on about 12-tone theory, perhaps someone can help me. Having finally given in and decided to make the move from PC to Mac, I find out Quadra's are no longer made, except for a Quadra 630, which has a 2 month back order. If I want a Mac now, I have to settle for an LC. It appears that the difference between an LC630 and a Quadra630 is that the LC has no math CoPro. If I run MAX on an LC with a 68LC040 (which is a 68040 without the CoPro) at 33MHz and 8 meg, will I find that applications such as MAX and Csound suffer at all? Will I miss the CoPro? I'm not planning any hard disk recording/editing. Thanks, Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Theory List (fwd) Regarding the request for a list with theory info. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 14:57 CDT From:Howard.Fredrics@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu To: gdorter@julian.uwo.ca Subject: Theory List There are a number of existing newsgroups that have such discussions including rec.music.makers and rec.music.compose. Try posting there. I'm all in favor of a non-academic, less elitist place for discussion of musical theoretical issues. Good luck to you. -howard fredrics Howard.Fredrics@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:15:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: FAQlet (was: emusic digest) >Are you sure you can't set up a procmail type of thing for them emusic-l account? Disclaimer: I don't know too much about how mailing lists work... Maybe when they go to a Unix machine, but right now it's running on IBM LISTSERV and They Ain't No Such Feature. :( >>I will post it weekly. Any other suggestions wil be added as I have time to do it. Anyone who supplies a question WITH an answer will be credited, of course. >I'd suggest the recent "12-tone systems in a nutshell" posting. I don't recall who wrote it or what the actual subject was, but it was the most info I've seen about 12-tone yet. Pretty cool. Yep. I'm expecting to see more from more sources, so, I'm holding off putting together the "definitive 12-tone OAQ" (Occasionally Asked Question) until later. There is a prototype version of the EMUSIC-L ADMIN FAQ on the EMUSIC-L WWW site at http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l - check it out. I'll probably post it Friday. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:30:59 -0500 Reply-To: Greg Dorter Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: 12 tone tutorial In-Reply-To: <9412061735.AA07737@julian.uwo.ca> On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Peter Mueller wrote: >>There's still the problem of how does a composer decide on a row (it's certainly not a random ordering), and, once the row has been chosen, how is it used. But that's another posting (if you want more). >Yes, please. This is where all the hard brainwork is, obviously, since all of the tonerow manipulation is just mathematical operations. AActually I've always thought the brainwork comes in with how you combine different statements of the row to produce music that you want to listen to. Some things to consider when creating a row... Interval Content: For example, a row that was ordered: C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G is going to has a certain sound (i.e. lots of perfect 4ths -- the retrograde will have lots of P5ths). A row like Webern's Op. 20 emphasizes semitones (every other interval is a semitone). The row from Berg's Lyric Suite is an all-interval row: Row: F E C A G D Ab Db Eb Gb Bb B Intervals: M7 m6 M6 M2 P5 TT P4 m7 m3 M3 st It is possible to construct a row with lots of major and minor triads: C E G B D F# A C# ... This may sound more "tonal" than a row with many semitones. The row in my first posting is a derrived row. Over-simplified, this means that if the row is divided into the 1st 3 notes, next 3 notes, next 3 notes and last 3 notes, each of these groups of three notes contains the same intervals (in this instance complementary intervals, i.e. P4/P5, m3/M6 are considered equal). Of course, as Peter suggests, once the row has been chosen, the way the composer distributes the row through the various instruments will also determine the overall sound of a piece. (Not all pieces with the same row sound similar, just like not all pieces in C major sound similar). More on this next time I need to put off my work. Please, someone else jump in and get a discussion vs. this dreary monologue. BTW, to relate this more to this list, Milton Babbitt published an important article called "Twelve-Tone Rhythmic Structure and the Electronic Medium." More on that later. Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:49:50 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kurt Yamamoto Subject: General MIDI Hi, Is there anywhere I can get the General MIDI spec in a document I can ftp. I apologize if this is one of those questions that gets asked over and over (I'm new here) Thanks, Kurt Yamamoto Kurty@urfim.ucla.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:17:16 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Mac Processor Requirements In-Reply-To: <9412062139.AA08303@ursa-major.spdcc.com> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 3 X-Sun-Content-Length: 286 If you're doing Csound, you definitely want the math coprocessor. I've taken a look inside the code and you definitely don't want to run in emulation mode. By the way, look a little farther afield for the Quadra 630. I've seen them on the shelves in stores around here (Boston area). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:37:10 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: General MIDI Hi Kurt, >I apologize if this is one of those >questions that gets asked over and over I've been here for months and never seen it (mind you, I go through the directory of 50+ messages a day and delete by subject title). >I'm new here Welcome aboard. Regards, David P.S. I'd like to know too! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:47:54 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Sherwood Subject: Re: several small items |From: "Eric Harnden Ronin" | | 1: enya - i could swear that it's all juno. i mean, i get those |tones all the time from the 106. and the arpeggiated stuff on watermark is |a dead giveaway for the 60. are we certain she's really using anything else? Good call--her 1986 self titled release lists the instruments on the liner notes as: piano, Juno 60, DX7, Emulator II and Kurtzweil (sic). It just seems to me on the later releases that the sounds may have expanded some, and I wonder if I haven't heard a wavestation.... but was mostly insterested in the analog machines. Another EMUSIC Question: Perhaps I have thought this one all of the way through, but when I started with synths on the Roland (700 System?), I could "patch" up an LFO to continually trigger an amp envelope. I can't seem to find that modulation path on any current day synths--am I missing some- thing? I suppose I could fake it by having an LFO modulate the filter, but I don't quite have all of the wave-shapes for what I want on modern synths. like the 'ramp-down' shape (for lack of a better name for it... the one that shoots up to max immediately and ramps down to zero.... on an LFO, remember). Using 'Chariots of Fire' for a common example we all probably know, the opening rythmic saw-wave with the ADSR modulated by an LFO should demostrate what I mean. Any hints? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:08:13 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Anderson Subject: Korg X3 Does anyone know of a sound editor program for Windows 3.11 for the Korg X3? How about a sequencing program that works well with the X3 also? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!! Thanks Eric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:01:53 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Anderson Subject: Re: Software advice needed In-Reply-To: <199412050428.AA09689@bierce.latimes.com> On Sun, 4 Dec 1994, Bob Needham wrote: >I hope nobody considers this off-topic, and I hope it hasn't already been covered to death here, but I need some advice. I want to get some decent digital-audio-plus-MIDI-sequencing software. I have a Mac Quadra 660AV, and I've basically narrowed the options down to Opcode's Studio Vision AV and OSC's Deck II plus Metro. Bob, I opened this topic up about 2 months ago as my first posting to the list, before i discovered the distinction between that at synth-l, which I took to be hardware related. Appears Joe & Mike will allow software queries to cross over both lists. The answers I got were very informative. I had narrowed my choice down to Vision AV and was just looking for confirmation that I was on the right track, or any further holes in my theory or potholes I might step in. My reading on it is that unless you have the money to put down on a digidesign, that Vision AV was the most cost-effective way to get midi sequencing as well as analog to digital channels. I justified it by telling my wife that with this software, I wouldn't have to upgrade my 4-track to an 8-track. However, I still haven't talked her into letting me put money down on the Roland JV90 I'm scheming for. So until then, I have a really high-tech program that looks really good on the screen but doesn't actually do anything. Also bought a Midi Express sequencer to link it to my 4-track, and that works fine at striping a tape. However, I still haven't tumbled how to get an analog track into Vision AV. All of which is to say, it sounds like we're on the same track and look forward to responses you might get and the sharing of info in the future. (You wanted the analog channels because you basically couldn't give up your folk guitar, am I right?) :> -------------------------------------- Terry Anderson - anderst@news.latimes.com TimesLink, Los Angeles Times Voice: (213) 237-2265 Fax: (213) 346-8515 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 08:51:29 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sjoerd Bijleveld Subject: Music on Power-PC #2 There is this wonderfull little shareware application called SoundApp. It does numerous soundfile conversions, but also *recording of CD audiofiles*. I downloaded it from ftp://mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/info-mac/ (look in the sound/utilities directory). sjoerd Bijleveld ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 23:49:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Ed Berlett, Music" Subject: Re: General MIDI >Is there anywhere I can get the General MIDI spec in a document I can ftp. I apologize if this is one of those questions that gets asked over and over (I'm new here) >Thanks, >Kurt Yamamoto >Kurty@urfim.ucla.edu Electronic Musician has published an article on General Midi sometime within the last year. If you know someone with a general midi instrument you can piece together the instrumentation from the specs. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 03:53:41 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Harris Punyon Subject: Re: Korg X3 Don't know for sure, but check with: Sound Quest, Inc. #2 - 131 13th Ave. Vancouver, BC V5Y 1V8 (604) 874-9499 - (BBS: (604) 874-8971 They make sound editors and librarians for Windows. I have an old version of "Sound Quest" that supports many Korg Products plus many, many other vendors synths. I found out that there is an upgrade available and I'm going to upgrade ASAP. Hope this helps. :-) ========================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:29:18 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: PC sequencer/16 bit recorders Goomba Guys ! I have a small problemo. Lately I decided to betray my good old world and jump from antique Amiga 500 to a powerful PC (486DX2 66MHz). I already bought some SB16 with some CDrom connestions, and some ASP installing possibility. I hate samplers, especially this class so my main intention of the card is sequencing and some sound output of games, programs etc. I have some oldie Cubase 1.0 for Windows, but I kind of don't like it. I saw a Cakewalk program in some local store, and I think it would suit me more. Since I live in Asia :) (Europe starts 180 West - on the border with Germany) I have limited access to software before buying it. The guy in the shop allowed me to touch his mouse and check the proggy out for few minutes (gee, what a luck I had :) ) I couldn't find two things that would make the program the one I desire. Is there a possibility of editing a track seeing normal 'computer' language of events like in KCS on A500 ? Also, if there is such way , is it the standart way of events like this : Meas: Beat: Time: Channel: Note: Velocity: Duration: 0001 2 120 12 A-4 106 119 0001 3 120 12 A#4 103 119 0002 1 240 7 PG 32 0002 1 0 7 CC 7 90 etc etc... Also, I hate samplers like I said, because the music I do requires some good synths and the feel and sound of a synth. But there is one thing it might be useful for. I could do some drums on it. Since it is 16 bit it might work somehow. Does Cakewalk have an feature allowing playing and recording samples (called wavs?!?) and most of all assigning them to a MIDI channel ? If it is done a different way , how ? I only found some 'insert a wav file' which if I would be forced to do a drum pattern could take forever especially not even knowing 'when' will it be inserted. If there are better, other sequencers which have the option please let me know. They have also ENCORE 3.0? for Windows which I didn't have any luck to see. Second thing that would satisfy me is using a sampler for multi-track audio recording. I will soon buy a 420Mb hard disk which should be a piece of memory. Is there any way of using a SB card for audio recording like at least 2 tracks adding third for some midi-timing control ? I suppose that for more tracks there should be a special card with more sound converters. Please if anyone has any informantion that would help me. or suggestions I would be very happy to hear them ! Jacek L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jacek Latanowicz Instutute of Acoustics, AMU II AA Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 jack@vm.amu.edu.pl (Jack1 on IRC) II A AA 61-306 Poznan,Poland jlat@plearn.edu.pl II AAAAA tel/fax (+48-61)798202 jlat@uci1.ae.poz.edu.pl II AA AA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Mac Processor Requirements >If I run MAX on an LC with a 68LC040 (which is a 68040 without the CoPro) at 33MHz and 8 meg, will I find that applications such as MAX and Csound suffer at all? Will I miss the CoPro? I'm not planning any hard disk recording/editing. Don't know about MAX, but you will definitely miss it for csound - there's an awful lot of floating-point stuf going on there. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: General MIDI >Hi, >Is there anywhere I can get the General MIDI spec in a document I can ftp. I apologize if this is one of those questions that gets asked over and over (I'm new here) >Thanks, >Kurt Yamamoto >Kurty@urfim.ucla.edu Check on the EMUSIC-L WWW site at http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. There's a pointer to the complete MIDI spec there, including SMFs, General MIDI, and the sample dump standard. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:26:46 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: is there a buy/sell list??? >Hello: >Does anyone know of a list for USED SYNTHS FOR SALE? >Signed, >"Looking for a used M1" You will see some at times on synth-l; you might also look at rec.music.makers.synth and rec.music.makers.synth.marketplace if you can get to Usenet. I'll forward your note to SYNTH-L so anyone over there who can help you out can see it. --- Joe M. -- csound - anything you can imagine... in about an hour. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:30:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Bourgouin, Gaetan" Subject: Re: PC sound cards maTT wrote : can anyone recommend to me a PC sound card with good, basic 16-bit sound but without the built-in 4watt amps, plasticy mics, onboard awful fm synth.... question would be more appropriate to synth-l list . i will give you anyway some info but do it short. i suggest you the audiotrix pro card from mediatrix peripherals, it is the first sound card to be awarded the FAT SEAL . if any wants more info , reply to me directly : Gaetan Bourgouin gbourgou@po2.mtl.marconi.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:40:11 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phil Skiba Subject: Re: PC sound cards I would suggest the turtle beach multisound. You get a fast processor, a nice emu synth (all samples, no fm synth), and good midi implementation. ALso, no onboard amp, so it is dead quiet. It also records 44.1khz 16bit audio (stereo). phil sps5251@siena.bitnet ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 08:42:42 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Vision 1.4/PC platform EMUSIC-L: Sometimes sequencer talk gets so boring, but please indulge in my request for info. Does anyone have experience with both Cakewalk 2.0/3.0 and the new Vision 1.4 for IBM. I would like to know some of the pros and cons of Vision 1.4 and some of the salient features of the program. I'm kinda tired of Cakewalk. My Bars&Pipes Pro on the Amiga rocks over Cakewalk anyday........except its *way* to slow (sans hardrive & 68020 or better)! Feel free to email me direct. _ -john ___ __/ | ___ | | JKrikawa@CCIT.Arizona.Edu | |___ ________ \______/ \__________ Tucson, AZ ___../\./\/ \____/ \____ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:48:30 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: lfo amp control the oberheim matrix 6 (and i imagine the matrix 12 as well) has the ability to trigger its envelopes with the lfos. the matrix 6 is out of production, so if you want the thing itself you're looking at used gear. also, there's that classic ob sound - the 'shimmering blat'. there is a device out now called the marion systems modular, which i took a quick look at a couple of months ago, and it seemed to be exactly the matrix 6 architecture, with more voices, a smaller package, and a higher price. so it may well have the same capacity. and the same blat. i recently purchased a jd800, about which i have successfully refrained from ranting and raving on this group (hheee hhawww, whoop! yeah, hot diggety... oops. slipped a little, there), but it does have an interesting capacity. while you can't trigger the envelopes with the lfos, you can have an lfo control the vca, with the lfo turned upside down, and set to either a negative or positive offset, so that it only goes down or up from a fixed offset point, without crossing zero. and the lfo can be triggered by the keyboard, so you can pretty much get the kind of effect you described. oh, and (rant, drool...) the jd800 doesn't go 'blat'. it goes 'vvvvzzzhhheeeooowwwwoooouuummmmmph!' <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Phillip Djwa Subject: Re: Mac Processor Requirements This is a dumb question, but where is CSound found? I remember a while ago it was available with FTP. Is this still the case? If so, where? Also, can anyone quickly summarixe CSound? A lot of people I know use it, but I've actually never witnessed it very close-up. ************************************* Phillip Djwa ---- djwa@iear.arts.rpi.edu http://www.rpi.edu/~djwap/index.html **********(((((((( 0 ))))))))))************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:44:24 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: FAQlet (was: emusic digest) In-Reply-To: <199412061509.HAA15923@netcom16.netcom.com> from "Joe McMahon" at Dec 6, 94 11:05:27 am Joe McMahon writes-- >For those who don't know the answer, it's: >Send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text >UNSUB EMUSIC-L >as the body. No special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact either Joe McMahon (xrjdm@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov) or Mike Metlay (atomic@netcom.com) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. And before anyone jumps on me, I apologize for a recent posting of mine that said otherwise; SIGNOFF EMUSIC-L also works, but until recently it was the ONLY message that worked, and I wasn't informed of the change. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You mean I am not as notorious as I think I am...? Drat!" (j. rossi iii) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:02:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mark G Simon Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: 12 tone wave sequencing etc. The idea about 12 tone wave sequencing sounds interesting, but before I say anything else, let me just state what I understand is going on here, so someone can correct me if I have the wrong idea. You can program your synth so that when you press down one key a whole series of notes will be played rather than just one. You can play this sequence at a higher or lower pitch level depending on which key you press. You've programmed this sequence to play a 12 tone row when you press the key. So, instant 12 tone music. Except that you're stuck with playing this sequence all the way through each time, or cutting it short if you release the key early (correct so far?). This would seem to be of only limited use for making real 12 tone music. Now supposing you could do this: You have your 12 tones pre-set. The first key you press, no matter which, gives you the first note of the row, the next note you press gives you the second, the next note gives you the third, and so on. This would solve one of the major obstacles to true 12 tone improvisation, which is, of course, keeping track of how the row goes while you're playing. You would probably be quite a bit disconcerted at first in that the motion of your hand up and down the keyboard would have no relationship to the contour of the notes coming out, except, if your programming was clever enough, to determine the octave that a note is sounded in. A possible refinement to this would be to dedicate one octave of your keyboard to changing the transposition of the row rather than playing the actual notes. This is all very speculative of course, but it seems like you *ought* to be able to do something like this. I don't use MAX and have only a vague idea of how it works but it sounds like you ought to be able to set something up there that would accomplish what I've just described. Maybe there's a simpler way, and someone will let me know. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:08:26 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Sherwood Subject: Re: lfo amp control |From: "Eric Harnden Ronin" | |the oberheim matrix 6 (and i imagine the matrix 12 as well) has the |ability to trigger its envelopes with the lfos. | [... traditional analog architecture ...] |i recently purchased a jd800, [...] it does have an interesting |capacity. while you can't trigger the envelopes with the lfos, you can |have an lfo control the vca, with the lfo turned upside down, and set to |either a negative or positive offset, [... typical roland LFO modulated TVA ...] So in otherwords, you don't know how to trigger an amp envelope from an LFO on a typical 'contemporary' synth either (if any of them do have some similar architecture or what). With further thought, I guess that this kind of functionality just doesn't fit too well in today's digitals. And it could be done with a sequencer, of course... Chris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Dorter Subject: Re: Mac Processor Requirements In-Reply-To: <9412071552.AA14691@julian.uwo.ca> On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Phillip Djwa wrote: >This is a dumb question, but where is CSound found? I remember a while ago it was available with FTP. Is this still the case? If so, where? cecelia.media.mit.edu (and elsewhere) Greg Dorter University of Western Ontario 215 Bernard Ave. gdorter@julian.uwo.ca London, ON N6A 2M9 519-438-2287 CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:54:19 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: lfo amp control Ronin sez: >| while you can't trigger the envelopes with the lfos,... Chris sez: >So in otherwords, you don't know how to trigger an amp envelope... I think you misinterpret. Many synths nowadays don't believe that you really need to program them, and they simply don't provide the ability to do stuff like that. Engineers:"You don't need to do that. Drop the code to do it. It'll save money." After all, this is the bottom line for synth manufacturers: cost per unit, not "is this a valuable musical feature which only a few people will ever use?" The VFX does have envelope retrigger, fortunately, so you can provide up to three more pseudo-LFOs per voice. However, one is hard-routed to the output, so you effectively can't use it as an LFO, and you lose filter and pitch mod enveloping with the envelope generators if you use 'em as LFOs. Most synths nowadays don't bother. --- Joe M. -- Crispen's Law: "On SYNTH-L, any discussion that runs long enough will eventually have a dozen K2000 fans describing why they love their instruments." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:56:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Mac Processor Requirements >On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Phillip Djwa wrote: >>This is a dumb question, but where is CSound found? I remember a while ago it was available with FTP. Is this still the case? If so, where? >cecelia.media.mit.edu (and elsewhere) See also the EMUSIC-L WWW page, which has info about it, mostly the Mac version. Would NeXT, other Unix, PC and other platform folks send me details directly to add to this document, please? We can turn it into the csound FAQ. --- Joe M. -- Crispen's Law: "On SYNTH-L, any discussion that runs long enough will eventually have a dozen K2000 fans describing why they love their instruments." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: ADMIN: The administrative FAQ for EMUSIC-L This is probably going to be a weekly/biweekly post, but here goes. Remember that this is available from http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. Please read and save this message. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Frequently-Asked Questions for EMUSIC-L *** How do I get on this list? *** Send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text SUB EMUSIC-L should be replaced by your first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the other list members. *** How do I post to the list? *** Send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic. *** How do I sign off this list? *** Send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact either Joe McMahon (xrjdm@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov) or Mike Metlay (atomic@netcom.com) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. *** What happened to EMUSIC-D / How do I get digests? *** EMUSIC-D is no longer in service. I am, as time permits, putting together digests of the traffic for each month and storing them on a WWW site at sunsite.unc.edu. To access the ones that are currently available, use the URL http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l (Anonymous FTP instructions to follow later.) If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST should be replaced by your first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). *** So, can I post anything I feel like? *** Well, no. The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary. What we are concerned with is the music, composing, and related topics. Therefore: 1) Ads are not permitted. Advising someone as to whether they are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise, use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK. Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on SYNTH-L (see below). Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside information on a new product or upgrade. Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording, and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention outside of such a message is marginally acceptable; a 1-line mention in a signature file is fine.) 2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are useful. Mutual admiration societies are not. 3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that, take it to e-mail, or just forget about it. 4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a little humor on the list; however, the list owners (Mike Metlay and Joe McMahon) maintain final say as to the subject matter on the list and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous discussions. 5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That's the administrators' job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Mike, Joe, or to the offender, use private mail. 6) The listowners are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the quality of discussion on this list. --- Joe M. (xrjdm@farside.gsfc.nasa.gov) -- Crispen's Law: "On SYNTH-L, any discussion that runs long enough will eventually have a dozen K2000 fans describing why they love their instruments." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:00:56 LCL Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bob Cimino ok..I know it's not a k2000, but I still love my old pro-one. Now I broke the pitch bend wheel, and I can't seem to track down a replacement. any suggestions? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:03:14 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Adkins Subject: Re: General MIDI >Hi, >Is there anywhere I can get the General MIDI spec in a document I can ftp. I apologize if this is one of those questions that gets asked over and over (I'm new here) >Thanks, >Kurt Yamamoto >Kurty@urfim.ucla.edu I found a general MIDI document w/ spec tables at ftp.cs.ruu.nl under pub/midi/DOC. Jeff Adkins ================= jadkins @infi.net