========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 08:18:03 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: frequency of scale.. unequal temperaments Comments: cc: Multiple@pen.k12.va.us, recipients@pen.k12.va.us, of@pen.k12.va.us, list@pen.k12.va.us, EMUSIC-L@pen.k12.va.us In-Reply-To: <586098.ensmtp@bubbs.biola.edu>; from "Randy Budnikas" at Mar 7, 95 5:25 pm >In the classical music world, different keys were used because of the >different characteristics of their tunings. D was typically sunny, while >C-minor was dramatic. Although those reasons no longer hold because of >equal temperament, it is quite instructive to dial up an earlier tuning >and play with the keys. By the same token, though, The harmonic sequence of ratios upon which a major tuning was built was the same for C Major, D Major, E Major, etc. There was no intervalic difference, mathematically, between the first and fifth scale tones in D Major, and the first and fifth in F Major. The early tunings were no more representative of "different characteristics" than the modern temperament is. Some people feel "moods and colors" with certain keys and some people don't. I have friends who claim that their "perfect pitch" is due to the fact that they associate keys with colors. If they hear blue, for example, they know that they are hearing C Major. I am speaking about modern temperament here! Different keys were used primarily for 4 basic reasons: 1. Many early instruments were built to be key-specific. 2. Picking diffent keys is neccesary to support differnt singers' ranges. 3. Some people DO hear colors or characteristics they want to use. 4. Some orchestrational techniques are ineffective in certain keys: the pitch is either too high or too low, depending on which octave you use. Changing keys can make orchestral effects accessible. I DO agree, though: It is instructive to experiment with older tunings. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:08:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wespee@AOL.COM Subject: _Wireless Imagination_ I highly recommend the book _Wireless Imagination: Sound, Radio, and the Avant-Garde_. It deals with the much ignored aspect of sound in the avant-garde, including some nifty radio pieces, articles on Duchamp, Artaud, William S. Burroughs, and more (including the omnipresent John Cage.) An anthology of essays by various authors, fun and enlightening. Paul Edson wespee@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:46:05 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hall, Troy" Subject: FW: Temperaments... >In an orchestra, the keys still have character. D is still sunny, and C-minor >is still dramatic. This is because of the amount of open strings played in >those keys. The more open strings in a key, the brighter the sound. Can C-major not be "sunny"? Can D-minor not be "dramatic"? Gee ... I guess all those open strings those highly trained viol players must use must really hinder their expressive urges. I'm sure it really irritates them when the other member instruments of the orchestra start playing notes without their *valves* or *keys* down making the key of Bb-major or Eb-major sound "sunny" when it's supposed to sound "sympathetic" or "somber". And what if the oboe player to which they tune to is not playing A440? And what of Hindustani and other musics that use "microtonality"? Music, of course, affects more than just the eardrums of people -- it affects the psyche, the emotions. But the characterization of music, while not always entirely personal, probably has much more to do with cultural contexts than with a universal human experience. In the realm of ELECTRONIC MUSIC, the artist is free to try (note I said *try*) challenging these biases and/or use them as he/she sees fit, without the limitations imposed by culture, habit, or the instrument itself. (The last point is obviously argueable, although I believe that will become less and less true as technology develops. Besides, electronic instruments are like brains - never used to their fullest potential.) Who would really want to emulate an orchestra to that degree, anyway? "Open strings" in weird places would probably contribute to a more enjoyable listening experience anyway, even if the audience didn't realize or even care if that was what was coloring the music. Does anyone know where I can acquire a kitchen sink multi-sample (both with dirty dishes, and "open")? I need it for my OB-81Zx7-IIfd v1.3.1 super-vapor-synth. With my own sample attempt, my latest composition seems "greasy" instead of "slimy"...and the hiss from my tape recorder was entirely unacceptable... AMIGF, (all meant in good fun) Troy Hall >Unlike Nick Leeson, OJ knew when to cut his losses... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:06:50 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: psuedomoduli interruptis... In-Reply-To: <0098D00DA2B14AE0.00000F2F@ems.com> from "ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM" at Mar 7, 95 12:15:43 pm ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM writes-- > >Well, having taken a sucker-punch on both of these devices (the Marion and >the DPM), and not having Metlay's Law committed to memory, I thought I'd >respond - [response deleted] Darwin, I'm sorry but your story indicates that you DO have Metlay's Law committed to memory and are acting on it. You bought both pieces of gear based on what they did right then, and didn't invest money, time or heartache in waiting for what they MIGHT do someday. For the newbies here, Metlay's Law has been circulating on the Internet for about a decade now. It has no formal statement form, but reads something like this: "If you can't go to a store or mail order house, pay money NOW, pick it up and take it home, it's vaporware, no matter how may previews and ads and magazine articles about it you've read. If it's vaporware, you have no business planning on how it's going to change your music yet." Rothwell's Corollary states: "And even when it ceases to be vaporware, when and if it does, there is no guarantee of any kind that its addition to your rig will do a damn thing for your creativity that you couldn't have done before it came out." Or, in short: "It looks good on paper. Pity you can't play paper synths." >I am concerned about the number of "uninformed" decisions (or opinions) >regarding purchase of e-music gear, and the lack of forethought given to the >purpose of that gear. To me, the purchase of a new peice of gear represents >an enormous investment of time - literally dwarfing the initial cost of the >unit itself. Hence, I try to examine, carefully, the units I'm interested >in purchasing, and make appropriate decisions. In choosing a piece of gear, >a main criteria is "Will this be worth the effort it takes to become >competent?" I'm lucky enough to have a local dealer who will allow me time >with a machine before purchase, and will not give me "sales-lit" pressure. > >Where has it gotten me? Well, I have a very few synths that I know quite well, >and a decent knowledge about those I've not bought (despite some of the >bone-head comments I've made in the past). Occasionally, my wife points out >the stack of notebooks, full of drawings and notes, and giggles about the >amount of work I do for play. However, I feel that this is the amount of >effort I need to expend. I now have a system where there is limited >unnecessary duplication of technology, and everything seems to work like I do. > >And I'm pretty happy... > >Now _that's_ exciting! This is the electronic music definition of having achieved enlightenment. I wish I was there. After 17 years, my rig is smaller than it's been since I could actually start to afford stuff, and there is STILL too much in my rig. But I'm learning. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On March 7th, 1995, the Florida State Legislature convened for this year's session of Congress. On the very same day, a business-machine supply house in Tallahassee put up a large ad-sign: "ROLL UP YOUR PANTS, THEY'RE BACK." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:12:55 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: really old wine. In-Reply-To: <0098D01C.E4B74F20.14362@physics.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Mar 7, 95 02:04:57 pm Eric Harnden writes-- > >now, i have no problem with any of this per se... people need juno-like >objects in their studios. the architecture is standard because it is >classic and utilitarian. but if a company is going to tweak me with the >"modular" buzzword, i want *modularity*. and there is no reason, given the >current dsp capacities you see on these things, not to give it to me. to hell >with onboard sequencers. i'd even be happy to drop some of the onboard >processing. let me route! let me mix up the distinctions between signal, >processing, control, and timing paths. and, frankly, there's no reason >not to have the knobs, as well. this may or may not be coming; I am learning to simulate it with synths that allow audio input processing, turning my rig into hyperinstruments with audio routing, MIDI ganged control and effects processing. >as for the microwave... yeah, i know. the path is standard. but those >filters really are good, and, as metlay mentioned, the whole fun is in the >signal source. whee!! swept tables of grungy eight bit quarter cycle >waves! nifty. and different. Different IS nifty. And almost always good. In the words of Conrad Schnitzler, "More bigger fun! Pinch me, Cthulu-- I think I am INSANE!" mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On March 7th, 1995, the Florida State Legislature convened for this year's session of Congress. On the very same day, a business-machine supply house in Tallahassee put up a large ad-sign: "ROLL UP YOUR PANTS, THEY'RE BACK." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 14:04:25 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Friesen Subject: Re: really old wine In-Reply-To: <199503080600.BAA53508@atlanta.american.edu> I can't recall whether I missed ronin's point or not: I agree that standard, utilitarian (not in the phil. sense) signal paths have their uses, but aren't the only game in town (else why bother with anything else?). I guess I was simply off in diatribe-land, oblivious to the possibility that people might think I was speaking authoritatively... My focus was on the question of the user interface. Sound generation is now at the point where just about anything will make just about any sound (mind you, Korg hasn't yet produced a convincing piano on its synths, IMO)... If I'm synthesizing sound, an inferior engine with a superior interface is going to be more useful than a great engine with a page-parameter system. Are there masses of folks who use the Proteus' 2*16 displays for programming? And is it real programming, or just tweaking an offending parameter? Or do most folks just use these things as sample-players? ObStarTrekCon: When they're playing around with their 'knobless' control panels, what do you suppose they're dealing with? Nested menus? "Smart" (context sensitive, don't ask me how) menus? Michael Friesen "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield..." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Alex Sanielevici Subject: Physical modeling books/articles Comments: To: emusic mailing list Hello all! Does anyone know of sources for information about synthesis using physical models? I'm looking for books, articles in magazines, even Web URLs. I know of the CMJ issue (Winter '92 I think) that featured physical modeling, and of the Keyboard issue with 'The next big thing' on its cover. Also, there's a series of web pages at the CCRMA, in which are described some of the research going on ther in this field. Anyone know of others? I haven't seen any books out about or including chapters about it... _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Alex Sanielevici _/_/ E-Mail : sanielea@ere.umontreal.ca _/ _/ Music student, _/_/ or : alex@hypercomp.ns.ca _/ _/ University of Montreal _/_/ Voice : (514) 731-2578 _/ _/ Quebec, Canada. _/_/ http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca:9090/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 09:16:46 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Wavestation SR users & Re: Pseudomoduli In-Reply-To: <9503072119.AA17672@dspsun> from "william.b.fox" at Mar 7, 95 04:19:14 pm william.b.fox writes-- > > I'm not the expert >sound designer that Team Metlay people seem to be. And we're not doing entire sets of incredibly complex progrock covers as a matter of routine. Pick your expertise and ride it, m'friend. > There ought to be an arpeggiator in there somewhere! Well, of COURSE there should. This is news? :) >P. S. WMUH (Muhlenberg college) in Allentown has an emusic show >2am to 6am every Saturday. The second Saturday back I heard Nick's >piece from Bandwidth being played. I've heard that one and "March of >the Plastic Ants" being announced, though I didn't wake soon enough to >actually hear them. Way to go, guys! I wonder where they got it? The only place in that area that I know of who plays it is WXPN in Philly (Chuck Van Zyl's show). Please get me their address, Bill...I have something NEW to send them..... mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On March 7th, 1995, the Florida State Legislature convened for this year's session of Congress. On the very same day, a business-machine supply house in Tallahassee put up a large ad-sign: "ROLL UP YOUR PANTS, THEY'RE BACK." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 08:21:11 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: frequency of scale.. Comments: To: E-MUSIC@AMERICAN.EDU >In the classical music world, different keys were used because of the >different characteristics of their tunings. D was typically sunny, while >C-minor was dramatic. Although those reasons no longer hold because of >equal temperament, it is quite instructive to dial up an earlier tuning >and play with the keys. By the same token, though, The harmonic sequence of ratios upon which a major tuning was built was the same for C Major, D Major, E Major, etc. There was no intervalic difference, mathematically, between the first and fifth scale tones in D Major, and the first and fifth in F Major. The early tunings were no more representative of "different characteristics" than the modern temperament is. Some people feel "moods and colors" with certain keys and some people don't. I have friends who claim that their "perfect pitch" is due to the fact that they associate keys with colors. If they hear blue, for example, they know that they are hearing C Major. I am speaking about modern temperament here! Different keys were used primarily for 4 basic reasons: 1. Many early instruments were built to be key-specific. 2. Picking diffent keys is neccesary to support differnt singers' ranges. 3. Some people DO hear colors or characteristics they want to use. 4. Some orchestrational techniques are ineffective in certain keys: the pitch is either too high or too low, depending on which octave you use. Changing keys can make orchestral effects accessible. I DO agree, though: It is instructive to experiment with older tunings. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 13:47:00 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM Subject: Re: psuedomoduli interruptis... Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu [from Mike Metlay...] >Darwin, I'm sorry but your story indicates that you DO have Metlay's Law >committed to memory and are acting on it. You bought both pieces of gear >based on what they did right then, and didn't invest money, time or >heartache in waiting for what they MIGHT do someday. GULP. After 20+ years of emusic-ing, I may have done something right... Actually, the law, and the corollary, are improvements over my philosophy; I've tended to make _big_plans_ on information found in the mags - only to be horrified at the actual results (or total lack thereof). Thanks for detailing it, Mike. >>And I'm pretty happy... >> >>Now _that's_ exciting! > >This is the electronic music definition of having achieved enlightenment. Ummm, perhaps it's just a dim bulb... I still catch myself with a real strong _needer_, although it is mostly directed at FX rather than synths these days. A PCM-60 for $200, hey??? How about that pair of PCM-41's for cheap??? And another SE-50... {At this point, the master moves behind the student, striking him with a cane rod. The young disciple of emusic shakes off his foolish dream and realizes that his journey is just beginning. And the master mutters, already forming his reply to the next self-answering question coming from these scatter-brains.} Thanks again. [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 628-3045(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@devlac.ems.com .............................................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 14:12:10 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM Subject: Re: really old wine Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu >ObStarTrekCon: When they're playing around with their 'knobless' control >panels, what do you suppose they're dealing with? Nested menus? "Smart" >(context sensitive, don't ask me how) menus? Errr, I think it's a plexiglass panel with backlit gelatin cubes; perhaps interfaced to MAX running on a Powerbook (serial port only), feeding random synth modules (in any order) through an enormous bank of effects - while simultaneously feeding THC via skin contact (through a hidden, but too expensive, Serge TKB) back to the user. Aural feedback (not provided by the THC) is by the crucial accent level of the $875 TB-303 emulation from the new Roland synth modeler, which the actors would like to trade for other patches and samples. (There. I think I've been able to touch on every EMUSIC-L, SYNTH-L and AH topic from the last two weeks.) :-> [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 628-3045(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@devlac.ems.com .............................................................................. "The famous person wears the same size water skis as me, She's got three cars, as many years I've lived in this city. Her hair is blonde and mine is brown - they both start with a B, But when the phone inside her rib cage rings it's not for me." - The Famous Polka, by They Might Be Giants ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 20:57:05 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: pseudomoduli >an UltraProteus with >a Wavestation A/D spliced into its effects loop....aieeee.... As they say on Babylon 5: "On it." Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 20:57:21 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: psuedomoduli interruptis... >I am concerned about the number of "uninformed" decisions (or opinions) >regarding purchase of e-music gear, and the lack of forethought given to the >purpose of that gear. Generally due to the uninformed questions people ask, I think you'll find. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 19:42:08 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV Subject: Re: On Laurie Anderson ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: On Laurie Anderson Author: Electronic Music Discussion List at Internet-Gateway Date: 3/7/95 8:10 PM I, too am a big fan of Ms. Anderson's, and saw her in 1984, during the Mr. Heartbreak tour in the Univ. New Mexico Auditorium. She really influenced my understanding of what is possible in e-music: it's NOT just bleeps and bloops made in Ivory Towers (Mark Simon, Scott McCoy...are you there? :-)). I really like her smart-assed attitude, although these days a little of it goes a *long* way for me. In addition to the albums mentioned yesterday, I own "You're a Hook" put out by the Dial-a-Poem Poets for their 20th anniversary (?). It features Laurie A. performing one of her funny monologues through her trademark pitch shifter, Frank Zappa reading "The Talking Asshole" from William Burroughs's novel, _Naked Lunch_, John Giorgino, Patti Smith, William Burroughs, and many more poets. She's also featured on another album with William Burroughs and John Giorgino (I think), called _Sugar, Meat, and Alcohol_, which I don't own. keep continuously controlling, Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 22:48:23 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: FW: Temperaments... In-Reply-To: ; from "Hall, Troy" at Mar 8, 95 9:46 am In an orchestra, the keys still have character. D is still sunny, and C-minor is still dramatic. This is because of the amount of open strings played in those keys. The more open strings in a key, the brighter the sound. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Another point worth mentioning- USUALY, when strings play a note which gould be played as an "open" note, for a duration long enough for the listener to take notice (in a modern ensemble) the string player instead plays the previous string in 5th position, so that a vibrato can be added. The obvious exception is the lowest possible note played on the instrument: low E on the violin, for example. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:01:26 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ian Varley Subject: Re: frequency of scale.. unequal temperaments If you'd like to hear an example of "authentic" tunings (i.e. non-equal tempered stuff) listen to "Switched on Bach 2000" by Wendy Carlos. It is a recreation of the original (SOB was originally recorded by W. Carlos 25 years ago) except that it uses all authentic "Bach" tunings. The difference is subtle, but definite, and very nice. Ian Varley ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:47:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Todd Thanhauser Subject: Ensoniq Kmx-8 midi patch bay Comments: To: Emusic-L@AMERICAN.EDU I own a Kmx-8 and have the Atari and Macintosh software that was bundled with the unit. Does anyone know if there was an offer for IBM software either Dos or Windows. Also does anyone know of a way to convert either the Atari or the Macintosh software to something the IBM can use. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also if you could send me any information via Email because I don't know if I am on the list as of this moment. Thanks in advance Todd ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 01:06:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Vernon Subject: Re: frequency of scale .. une... There is a school of thought which says certain keys have "colors" which are distinguishable by the ear as being individual, or having character. I have problems with it, especially since the left side of my brain doesn't have the big growth which causes perfect pitch. Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 03:38:04 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Don Hannah Subject: Re: FW: Temperaments... Pete Schoenhoff: You mention low E on the violin. The low note (open string) on the violin is a G, a 4th below middle C. (The E string is the highest) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 04:34:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "William R. Shannon" Subject: Re: frequency of scale - unequal temperment I've been following the unequal temperments discussion for a short while + thought I'd throw-out a couple of things... Unequal temperments based on historical Western music models pre-date well and equal temperments. The development of the system of keys and modulations dates from around the Baroque, and the notion of key should not be applied to earlier tunings. When composers began to modulate to different keys, the older tunings sounded out of tune in the extreme. So to fix this, pitches were "bent" up and down to create our modern equal temperment in which the intervals are <> out of tune in all of the 12 modern keys. The result is that on equal tempered instruments, the only "in tune" or harmonic (ie "removing the beats") interval is the octave. Related to this: I have had an interest for a number of years in the rather esoteric area of Spanish Rennaisance organ music (a weird interest, but there is some wonderful and largely unknown music there). This music was written for instruments that were tuned in 1/4 comma meantone, or a closely related tuning (will describe if interest). We know this because physical pipes still exist from that era and can be measured. Many if not most of our electronic instruments have this tuning available. This tuning is characterized by pure thirds, much lower than equal tempered thirds, and slightly out of tune fifths. In modern keys this "in tuneness" extends to about 2 sharps and 2 flats. But (and this is important), the music was written in the eight church modes, which roughly correspond to our white note scales or the jazz modes dorian, phrygian etc. Pieces were written in a single mode only - they did not "modulate" from one mode to another (this came later). What I have found, both using a small pipe organ that I've built and electronic instruments, and with A-B comparisons, is that there is a big difference in the "affects" or the feeling of this music if played in meantone or equal temperment. There seem to be 8 very different levels of brightness or darkness in meantone as compared to the 2 of equal temperment major or minor qualities. In addition, composers seem to have used special combinations such as a triad built on two pure thirds (a very unusual sound) to create an emotional climax in the music, which is lost if the music is played in equal temperment. Sorry to ramble on. One of the really great things about our computer instruments is that we can easily do this A - B comparison of tunings and tuning systems. This has never been available in the past. For example, to compare tunings on my pipe organ I have to physically re-tune each pipe, and then play and record the example, which may take an hour or more. In my college lab, the SY77 and Vision sequence can do this in 1/4 second. Worth trying. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The digital domain can sometimes be one finger. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 07:07:33 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Doug Ramsay Subject: MTPro 5.2/MIDI Connections Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu, emusic-l@american.edu Hi: I'm a newbie to using software sequencers. I'm using Master Tracks Pro 5.2 and have my DX7S as a controller connected to, through a Yamaha MJC8 MIDI Patch Bay, a Yamaha TG55, TX81Z, RY30 drum machine and a Roland S-550 sampler. The MIDI interface I'm using is a MIDIMAN Macman, which is connected to my Mac's printer port. I'm able to play the TG and TX via my DX7S, but when I open up Apple MIDI Manager, the Patchbay only shows the Apple MIDI Driver connected to Master Tracks Pro. How can I get the other modules to be recognized in the software so I can draw the connections?? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. It seems that maybe my MIDI connections may not be right...anyone? Please respond by netmail to the address below also. Thanks $1M Doug / `-' / ,,, |[====|||||||||||[:::} My type of "g-strings" \__.-._\ ``` ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 07:37:20 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: FW: Temperaments... In-Reply-To: <950309033759_44024496@aol.com>; from "Don Hannah" at Mar 9, 95 3:38 am These are the graceful words of Don Hannah: ->Pete Schoenhoff: ->You mention low E on the violin. The low note (open string) on the violin is ->a G, a 4th below middle C. ->(The E string is the highest) You are right... I appologize. I am a keyboardist and a guitarist, mainly. And I always have to doube-think the other instruments... Violin: Low G, then D, then A then high E. Sorry, and thanks for the correction. I still stand by the point I made in my last note, though (with your correction added, of course) -- -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 07:45:13 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: frequency of scale - unequal temperment In-Reply-To: <9503090934.AA07388@worldlink.worldlink.com>; from "William R. Shannon" at Mar 9, 95 4:34 am These are the graceful words of William R. Shannon: ->Unequal temperments based on historical Western music models pre-date well ->and equal temperments. The development of the system of keys and modulations For the sake of clarification, if the frequency interval ratios are uneven, it is called a "tuning." If the ratios are even, it is a "temperament." There is no "uneven temperament." That is an oxymoron. I appologize for being a bit of a screwball for semantics on this, but as long as we're discussing it, we may as well use correct terminology. Thanks for understanding. Sorry if I offended. -- -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:49:51 +1900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: frequency of scale.. unequal temperaments In-Reply-To: <199503090600.BAA79896@atlanta.american.edu> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 19 X-Sun-Content-Length: 1212 Let me expand just a little bit on my remarks concerning characteristics of keys. Before equal temperament, the "same" intervals in different keys sounded different because they were in fact different intervals. If you have a harpsichord tuned to C in just intonation, the major third in D major is much sharper than the major third in Eb. All you have to do is set up your synth and experiment. You'll quickly find why the remote keys (let's say F# major) were little-used. Other writers have pointed out, quite correctly, that there are other factors related to key that can effect our perception. Open strings are certainly brighter. Certain technical tricks and articulations on wind instruments are strongly affected by key (fingerings, divisions of the resonant tube, etc). Many of the basic tunings of instruments are in fact derived from the earlier associations with untempered tuning. Certain people, whether from perfect pitch or other reasons, will of course hear key relationships that the rest of us don't. But I would argue (okay I won't fight to the death on this) that our current perceptions of key are more related to these other factors than their relationship to absolute frequency. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 10:35:23 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: On Laurie Anderson In-Reply-To: <9502087947.AA794720528@osprey.nwrc.gov> > > I, too am a big fan of Ms. Anderson's, and saw her in 1984, during the Mr. > Heartbreak tour in the Univ. New Mexico Auditorium. She really influenced my > understanding of what is possible in e-music: it's NOT just bleeps and bloops > made in Ivory Towers (Mark Simon, Scott McCoy...are you there? :-)). I really Yeah I'm here, although at present the old flame-thrower is in the shop for refueling. I don't think anyone is going to lump Laurie Anderson in the same group with the academic bunch I usually rail against. If I were in an arguing mood, which I'm not at the moment, I say that the criteria that qualify a sound as a seemingly meaningless "bleep" or "blop" (don't ask me to define these terms, they're highly subjective) are entirely context-related and that the meanest electronically-induced belch can have a much greater musical significance than the purest violin or clarinet tones. What counts is that the sounds are put together in a way that the listener can add up and relate to. I wouldn't be on this list if I didn't find these electronic sounds intriguing. I might even go so far as to say timbre is the one facet of music that's wide open for exploration these days. If you're one of these musicians that takes newness as an end-all and be-all, emusic is definitely the place to be. This last paragraph will no doubt inspire a host of messages that begin "but what about ...." So tell us about it. That's what the list is for. Uncontroversially (I hope) Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:48:34 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Todd Thanhauser Subject: Ensoniq software Comments: To: emusic-l@AMERICAN.EDU I have Mac and Atari software that was bundled with the unit. Does anyone know of a way to convert either of these programs to something that will be useable on an Ibm pc? Thanks, Todd ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:56:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Bourgouin, Gaetan" Subject: Switched on Bach 2000 and others . Comments: To: emusic-l Ian wrote : "Switched on Bach 2000" by Wendy Carlos. It is a recreation of the original (SOB was originally recorded by W. Carlos 25 years ago) Please , can someone tell me if this LP has been transferred to CD format , and on witch company name and number . Also , I have and old LP witch I'd love to have on CD but don't know if it has been released on . The title is " What you always want to hear on the Moog , but were afraid of asking for " . It has been recorded in 1967 and was discontinued in 1980 (about) and take 2 years to make . It's featuring many Spanish classics songs on side one , and the Ravel Bolero on side two . This LP is incredible ( for a 1967 recording ) and it's a piece of collection you have to have ( and hear too ). The sounds are astonishing . The recording is incredible for that period of time ( I use it to test all my friend's new speakers and blown a few !!! ) If someone can investigate that , I will owe him one !! ( I'm sure someone in this list is in the CD domain or have connections with record companies ). Any comments are welcome . Gaetan Bourgouin gbourgou@po2.mtl.marconi.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 08:10:37 GMT Reply-To: g.jalass@proaudio.de Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gert Jalass Organization: ProAudio Net Subject: Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Hi all, is anybody aware of a mailing list ( or discussion group ) focussing upon the two electronic music groups mentioned above ? Any hint will be appreciated, Gert --- OffRoad 0.99n ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:05:56 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Ensoniq software In-Reply-To: <950309114834_44244504@aol.com>; from "Todd Thanhauser" at Mar 9, 95 11:48 am These are the graceful words of Todd Thanhauser: ->I have Mac and Atari software that was bundled with the unit. Does anyone ->know of a way to convert either of these programs to something that will be ->useable on an Ibm pc? MIDI files, and some other files can be converted from one machine to another, but a PROGRAM, like you're referring to would have to be decompiled and recompiled, and even if you could do that, the hardware is different enough that the program compiled on your new machine would be worthless- unusable. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 17:33:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ian Varley Subject: Re: Switched on Bach 2000 and others . Gaetan Bourgouin writes: >Please , can someone tell me if this LP has been transferred to CD format, >and on which company name and number? Yes, it is on CD. I got it through BMG classical music club (I don't know the catalog #, sorry.) It is put out by Telarc, CD-80323. I hope that helps find it. Ian Varley ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 22:53:51 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Wavestation SR users & Re: Pseudomoduli >I bought an SR yesterday (and an S-760) Hey, I'm going to seriously quiz you on the '760 (either on SYNTH-L or via email)... >I know that Nick wipes out the RAM when he gets >a synth and gleefully begins designing new sounds. That's for the machines which don't wipe their own RAM without any prompting... >(Nick, do I >correctly recall that you have or did have an SR?) Yes, an SR and an A/D. >I found that as I >auditioned the SR's factory sounds, my compositional juices began >stirring just a little. I listened to about a dozen of the SR presets before I got bored. I've had the machine for a couple of years and haven't bothered listening to any more. From what I remember, they're pretty good, but ... well, you know. The Wavestations are so heavily effects-dependent (at least when I program them) that identifying a good preset is not necessarily a lot of use. >I'm imagining a multi on the SR that >consists of all the neat wave sequences (excluding the drum loop-style >sequences) where the sounds cross fade or jingle about in a sea of >reverb. Good luck putting up with the front-panel interface that long. Actually, I suggest you start with the effects programming for familiarity, and get into the voice architecture once you can handle the front panel clutch and gears... >P. S. WMUH (Muhlenberg college) in Allentown has an emusic show >2am to 6am every Saturday. The second Saturday back I heard Nick's >piece from Bandwidth being played. Ah yes, the low-calorie 100% bell-free Loremarie. Heh. Where's Allentown? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 22:54:05 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: really old wine. >this may or may not be coming; I am learning to simulate it with synths >that allow audio input processing, turning my rig into hyperinstruments >with audio routing, MIDI ganged control and effects processing. ...and he refuses to buy a copy of MAX. Sigh. So, has anyone seen an OASYS yet? >Different IS nifty. And almost always good. In the words of Conrad >Schnitzler, "More bigger fun! Pinch me, Cthulu-- I think I am INSANE!" KLANG! KLANG KLANG! Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:41:23 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: psuedomoduli interruptis... In-Reply-To: <0098D0E38D43BCC0.0000112E@ems.com> from "ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM" at Mar 8, 95 01:47:00 pm ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM writes-- > >[from Mike Metlay...] >>Darwin, I'm sorry but your story indicates that you DO have Metlay's Law >>committed to memory and are acting on it. You bought both pieces of gear >>based on what they did right then, and didn't invest money, time or >>heartache in waiting for what they MIGHT do someday. > >GULP. After 20+ years of emusic-ing, I may have done something right... >Actually, the law, and the corollary, are improvements over my philosophy; >I've tended to make _big_plans_ on information found in the mags - only to >be horrified at the actual results (or total lack thereof). > >Thanks for detailing it, Mike. It bears repeating. Too many kids let themselves think that one more box that iether is about to be released or has just been released will be their answer...and answers don't come that way, except in the rare case when one can describe precisely what one needs and understand exactly how one piece of hardware can do it, and then someone comes along and builds it. (It's happened to me a grand total of ONCE.) >>This is the electronic music definition of having achieved enlightenment. > >Ummm, perhaps it's just a dim bulb... I still catch myself with a real >strong _needer_, although it is mostly directed at FX rather than synths >these days. A PCM-60 for $200, hey??? How about that pair of PCM-41's for >cheap??? And another SE-50... > >{At this point, the master moves behind the student, striking him with a > cane rod. The young disciple of emusic shakes off his foolish dream and > realizes that his journey is just beginning. And the master mutters, > already forming his reply to the next self-answering question coming from > these scatter-brains.} Heh. Actually, everyone gets a _needer_ (or "Neeed" as Nick puts it) once in a while; I do too. The trick is to not stop doing music while you wait for miracles to happen. >Thanks again. De nada. 'Ts why I'm here. :) mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * atomic@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On March 7th, 1995, the Florida State Legislature convened for this year's session of Congress. On the very same day, a business-machine supply house in Tallahassee put up a large ad-sign: "ROLL UP YOUR PANTS, THEY'RE BACK." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 22:54:19 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: really old wine >Are there masses of folks who use the Proteus' 2*16 displays for >programming? And is it real programming, or just tweaking an offending >parameter? Or do most folks just use these things as sample-players? Never used a vanilla Proteus, but I spent two or three weeks happily programming a Morpheus/UltraProteus from the front panel. I didn't get very far into the multisegment function generators but was programming everything else. Ditto the MicroWave before I wrote an editor for it. It all depends on the machine. >ObStarTrekCon: When they're playing around with their 'knobless' control >panels, what do you suppose they're dealing with? Nested menus? "Smart" >(context sensitive, don't ask me how) menus? Oh, the menus are programmed with the plot each week. >"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield..." Yes, and there's the scifi series where they still have QWERTY keyboards... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 13:20:11 GMT+12 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Danny Organization: Auckland Institute of Technology Subject: Re: frequency of scale .. une... > There is a school of thought which says certain keys have "colors" which are > distinguishable by the ear as being individual, or having character. I have > problems with it, especially since the left side of my brain doesn't have the > big growth which causes perfect pitch. Good luck! > I am familiar with the 'colours' theory. I believe it to be a sort of figurative thing (I can't really identify with it either.) However I am curious about the big growth on left side of brain thing. Are you joking or has research shown something to this effect. I thought it was possible to learn perfect pitch by using your own voice as a benchmark. (If you were joking, please just shoot me and forget about me.) Regards :-) Danny Williams danielwi@chcsn1.ait.ac.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:51:00 PST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tony Cappellini Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu, emusic-l@american.edu Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 19:29:41 GMT From: Gert Jalass Subject: Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk Hi all, is anybody aware of a mailing list ( or discussion group ) focussing upon the two electronic music groups mentioned above ? Any hint will be appreciated, Gert There is a Web page for TD at http://www.cas.usf.edu/dylan/tdream/tdream.html and a Web Page for Kraftwerk at http:/wwwtdb.cs.umu.se/~dvlawm/kraftwerk.html I'm sure there's a TD list. CHeck the web pages for details. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "William R. Shannon" Subject: Re: Frequency of Scale - Unequal Temperaments >These are the graceful words of William R. Shannon: > >->Unequal temperments based on historical Western music models pre-date well >->and equal temperments. The development of the system of keys and >modulations > > For the sake of clarification, if the frequency interval ratios are >uneven, it is called a "tuning." If the ratios are even, it is a >"temperament." There is no "uneven temperament." That is an oxymoron. > > I appologize for being a bit of a screwball for semantics on this, >but as long as we're discussing it, we may as well use correct terminology. > Thanks for understanding. Sorry if I offended. >-- > > > -Pete Schoenhoff Wow! What a strange reply. Even the workaday Harvard Dictionary defines temperament as "a system of tuning in which the intervals deviate from the "pure" (i.e. acoustically correct) of the Pythagorean system and just intonation". Further down: "Prior to its acceptance, various other systems of tempered intervals, generally referred to as "unequal temperament," were in use, among which the mean-tone system was the only one to attain practical significance". Will admit to misspelling "temperament", but then I'm a lousy speler anyway. William R. Shannon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dust falls even on a flea ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 07:45:46 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Frequency of Scale - Unequal Temperaments In-Reply-To: <9503100618.AA28708@worldlink.worldlink.com>; from "William R. Shannon" at Mar 10, 95 1:18 am >> For the sake of clarification, if the frequency interval ratios are >>uneven, it is called a "tuning." If the ratios are even, it is a >>"temperament." There is no "uneven temperament." That is an oxymoron. >> >> -Pete Schoenhoff > >Wow! What a strange reply. Even the workaday Harvard Dictionary defines >temperament as "a system of tuning in which the intervals deviate from the >"pure" (i.e. acoustically correct) of the Pythagorean system and just >intonation". -> ->William R. Shannon We have not disagreed here: When I said "the ratios are even" in a temperament, I meant that the mathematical ratio between any pitch and the next half-step is (the 12th root of 2) the ratio remains even/constant. That would mean that the interval of a perfect fifth in just intonation is equal to ((the 12th root of 2) to the 7th power) because there are 7 half steps in a perfect 5th. Pythagorean harmonics defines the perfect 5th interval as a ratio of 3/2. While Pythagorian harmonics WILL eliminate beats within a constant key, modulation from that key is not possible: it would sound very unmusical and out of tune. -- -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:03:42 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hall, Troy" Subject: On Unsubscribing//Perfect Pitch >You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF EMUSIC-L" command >to ****>>> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU <<<****. ...not EMUSIC-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU... // I have been fortunate enough to meet four pianists with perfect pitch, all of whom find it a hindrance, particularly because temperature and humidity, among other things, tended to put their instrument (excrutiatingly to them) out of tune. OTOH, relative pitch -- the ability to identify pitches based upon their intervalic relationships with a known pitch -- can be learned (by a great majority of musicians) to such a degree that it is like perfect pitch, especially when combined with a good "pitch memory" or pitch retention abilities. Richard Boukas, a New York Jazz/Latin/Eclectic musician, has taught his technique in colleges in the New York area, and his instruction is superb! Much is learned through the *singing* of intervallic patterns based upon given intervals. E.G. sing: CG DA EB F#C# G#D# BbF CG BbF etc. as an exercise in recognizing and internalizing the sound of a fifth. Also, singing Bach Two-Part Inventions (the voice is theorized to be the best instrument for learning this stuff) with another person reinforces the ability to place intervals relative to the musical input of _other people_ -- paticularly important in vocal music and jazz. The real beauty of good relative pitch is that it allows you to transpose things VERY easily, given good enough instrumental technique. This will at least keep you from getting bored playing one tune the same way every time ... you do get bored with this, don't you?! Also, you may expand your musical horizon enough to realize that notes are out of tune only when the are not meant to be played at the pitch in which they were played. That is, "bending" notes becomes more of a technique, with recognized intervallic nuances, and less knee-jerk iii->III pitch-bending. (The blues is still, and always will be the root of most soulful American music, and is an essential element in jazz; but, pleeeeez, some pitch bending carries with it so much cultural baggage that its use becomes the stylistic equivalent of an anachronism.) Ever Flamebait, Troy Hall ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 13:41:38 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: WS-SR, S-760, and WMUH, et al Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Mike Metlay said: > william.b.fox writes-- > > I'm not the expert > >sound designer that Team Metlay people seem to be. > > And we're not doing entire sets of incredibly complex progrock covers > as a matter of routine. Pick your expertise and ride it, m'friend. True, but I'm trying to do emusic in my studio which means I need to develop my sound design chops or admit that I'm spreading myself too thin. > I wonder where they got it? The only place in that area that I know > of who plays it is WXPN in Philly (Chuck Van Zyl's show). Please get > me their address, Bill...I have something NEW to send them..... Actually, um, you sent the CD to the DJ when I gave you his name and address. (On air, he's Lunar Lander; in real life his name is Keith, if my memory is accurate.) I'll attempt to get you that info for your records. I'll also try to get you a station contact so that this something new you want to send out gets shared by all the DJs. Nick Rothwell said: > >I bought an SR yesterday (and an S-760) > > Hey, I'm going to seriously quiz you on the '760 (either on SYNTH-L or via > email)... The problem with getting two new toys at once is that I tend to learn them one at a time or both very slowly. I'm still at the "audition the presets" stage on the SR and plan to learn some of its details before I dig into the S-760. Besides, the CDROM that comes with it will remain useless until I get a CROM player. Until then, all I can do is "convert load" my S-550 samples from floppy or start making new samples. (Which I plan to do.) Please feel free to ask questions. Just be patient as the answers might not be immediate. Better do it via email. I'm still a member of SYNTH-L but I have mail set to off. My job search has required that I cut it off along with Analogue Heaven for the time being. > The Wavestations are so heavily effects-dependent (at least when I program > them) that identifying a good preset is not necessarily a lot of use. > [ ... ] > Good luck putting up with the front-panel interface that long. Actually, I > suggest you start with the effects programming for familiarity, and get > into the voice architecture once you can handle the front panel clutch and > gears... Thanks for the advice. I'm looking forward to tearing apart some of the presets to see how to wave sequence and find out how much is cleverly designed effects. > Where's Allentown? It is about an hour north of of Philadelphia. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ... virtually *any* piece of gear is worth $27... - Jim Gardner (Which reminds me; I picked up the discontinued SCSI interface for my S-550 and bulk librarian for my MC-50 for $5 each!! All this plus a NEW MEX-8000 memory expander for $60 at the same warehouse sale where I bought the S-760 and WS-SR.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:28:14 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: RE: PSEUDOMODULI INTERRUPTIS From: JOEL STERN Subject: Re: PSEUDOMODULI INTERRUPTIS Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu mike notes the rarity of cases in which: >one can describe precisely what one needs and understand exactly >how one piece of hardware can do it, and then someone comes alon >builds it. (It's happened to me a grand total of ONCE.) It's happened to me a grand total of never. But I almost feel that being able to describe exactly what apparatus I need and have someone build it would be a brake on creativity. It would be easy to become dependent on having what you want when you want it or knowing exactly what you're getting. There is a certain serendipity in buying stuff on a hunch and finding out what it can REALLY do later. Unless I were to end up with a complete dog of an instrument (hasn't happened yet) the machine will always take (or force) me in a creative direction that wasn't entirely anticipated or appreciated...or desired. I don't consider any of the diversions from the straight and narrow path to have been regretable. It's sort of an ecological view of artistic development :) Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 20:05:51 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Rothwell to the MAX >But the medium doesn't lend itself to >the development of gestural technique, only to the recording and arrangment >AFTER the gesture. Agreed, although I remember when sequencers *were* things which could be used gesturally, in the years B.M. The other issue is that sequencers-as-recorders don't have a notion of control structure (like initialising an instrument properly); all one can do is assembly-code the MIDI instructions. This is also a straightjacket, although of a slightly different kind. But the beauty of using MAX is that the walls are all soft. I mean: you want an 8-note sequence in a sequencer? OK, record the notes, set the loop, and then perhaps (after the fact) edit some of the durations or velocities. You want an 8-note sequence in MAX? OK, let's attack the notes to a preset state object and then cycle through it at this speed, attach the velocities just so... hmm, I think I'll randomise those slightly ... and I think I'll attach that slider to note duration, and why don't we drop every N'th note down an octave according to the X vector position? In fact, I think I'll layer and drop all the notes through the MicroWave, gated by the sustain pedal, and use a ramp generator on the velocities there ... and so it goes. The mindset is totally different. >Well, at the rate my life is changing right now, vanishing into the >woodwork with a copy of MAX may be in my future yet. One question: I'm >looking at the possibility of a used Color Classic That would probably do. (Although I thought you had one at one stage?) Y'know, I can see you in a few years: Metlay Junior deep in concentration with head buried in a box of Meccano, trunnions and brass gears all over the place, and Metlay Senior deep in concentration with head buried in the MAX documentation, funnels and makenotes all over the place. And both wondering Why It Doesn't Work. >You may make a convert of me yet, and I'm not sure that'd be a good >thing; I think this whole MAX paradigm comes more easily to you >because you do nittygritty work with computers more than I do, and >have the mindset to get at it quickly. That's probably got a lot to do with it. >I've never actually gone so far >as to throw a piece of gear that makes me crazy against the wall Ah, yes; the ADAT is John Rossi's, isn't it? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:32:50 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: really old wine. In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Mar 9, 95 10:54:05 pm Nick Rothwell writes-- > >>this may or may not be coming; I am learning to simulate it with synths >>that allow audio input processing, turning my rig into hyperinstruments >>with audio routing, MIDI ganged control and effects processing. > >...and he refuses to buy a copy of MAX. Sigh. Yeah, yeah.... >>Different IS nifty. And almost always good. In the words of Conrad >>Schnitzler, "More bigger fun! Pinch me, Cthulu-- I think I am INSANE!" > >KLANG! KLANG KLANG! "Conrad loaned me his Sony KlangMan. Do I have it turned up loud enough for everyone to hear?" -- mike metlay \ atomic city \ "Just be thankful that you're not the one with the p.o.box 81175 \ breasts. She's **really** in for it." pgh pa 15217-0675 \ (m. carnes) atomic@netcom.com \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:47:42 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: PSEUDOMODULI INTERRUPTIS Comments: To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Comments: cc: EMUSIC-L In-Reply-To: from "JOEL STERN" at Mar 10, 95 02:28:14 pm JOEL STERN writes-- > mike notes the rarity of cases in which: > >one can describe precisely what one needs and understand exactly > >how one piece of hardware can do it, and then someone comes alon > >builds it. (It's happened to me a grand total of ONCE.) > > > It's happened to me a grand total of never. But I almost feel > that being able to describe exactly what apparatus I need and > have someone build it would be a brake on creativity. It would be > easy to become dependent on having what you want when you want it > or knowing exactly what you're getting. There is a certain > serendipity in buying stuff on a hunch and finding out what it > can REALLY do later. Unless I were to end up with a complete dog > of an instrument (hasn't happened yet) the machine will always > take (or force) me in a creative direction that wasn't entirely > anticipated or appreciated...or desired. I don't consider any of > the diversions from the straight and narrow path to have been > regretable. It's sort of an ecological view of artistic > development :) I would agree with this completely where music was concerned; in this case, the device had nothing to do with music and everything to do with getting a bunch of dumbass devices to work together harmoniously; more a janitorial matter than anything else. I refer to the Studio 5LX, the first MIDI interface and processor that works the way it should for me. I am now starting to get the 5LX to do actual creative stuff in building hyperinstruments and such, and there I ride with its existing feature set and see where I end up. mike -- mike metlay \ atomic city \ "Just be thankful that you're not the one with the p.o.box 81175 \ breasts. She's **really** in for it." pgh pa 15217-0675 \ (m. carnes) atomic@netcom.com \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:44:25 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: WS-SR, S-760, and WMUH, et al In-Reply-To: <9503101841.AA28455@dspsun> from "william.b.fox" at Mar 10, 95 01:41:38 pm william.b.fox writes-- > >Mike Metlay said: >> And we're not doing entire sets of incredibly complex progrock covers >> as a matter of routine. Pick your expertise and ride it, m'friend. > >True, but I'm trying to do emusic in my studio which means I need to >develop my sound design chops or admit that I'm spreading myself too >thin. You may well have to. I made a conscious decision to stop taking piano lessons ten years ago. I miss them, but not near as much as I would have missed what little time I have now to work on sounds. >Actually, um, you sent the CD to the DJ when I gave you his name and >address. (On air, he's Lunar Lander; in real life his name is Keith, if >my memory is accurate.) I'll attempt to get you that info for your >records. I'll also try to get you a station contact so that this >something new you want to send out gets shared by all the DJs. Buh. Duh. Sorry. My brain is cheese these days. That would be great. mike -- mike metlay \ atomic city \ "Just be thankful that you're not the one with the p.o.box 81175 \ breasts. She's **really** in for it." pgh pa 15217-0675 \ (m. carnes) atomic@netcom.com \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 22:30:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bryan Fusilier Subject: Re: C-Sound Hey people, I am interested in finding a C-sound front end for Windows. I heard that UT in Austin was working on some in Pinkstons studio. Please advise on how I could obtain this. I am also interested in getting in touch with K-2000 users. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 22:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "James G. Lamar" Subject: Alvin Lucier Scott McCoy asked about extant versions of "I am Sitting In a Room". I know that the community radio station I worked at in Cleveland several years ago made a digital recording of Lucier performing the piece at the Sonic Disturbance Festival. Lucier also performed Music for a Small Thin Wire, or whatever it's called, where standing waves are manipulated down a long taut wire. It's a creepy sensation to hear a sound literally traveling to and fro, with Doppler effect and everything, all in all a very impressive installation. Other than that, he also performed A piece involving using an umbrella as a parabolic acoustic reflector, not quite as interesting but still neat. Lastly, there was a very dada sort of thing he did with a piano and a teakettle. The teakettle contained a small speaker and had a ceramic lid. A tiny recording device was also set up in the teapot and the whole apparatus was set up atop a Steinway grand, upon which Lucier played a stilted rendition of "Strawberry Fields Forever". He then initiated playback from within the teakettle (the sound of the piano had obviously been seriously altered by the interior acoustic of the teapot, a very Lewis Carroll-type idea), manipulating the playback further by slowly removing and replacing the lid. As i said before, all these recordings are in the archives at WRUW in Cleveland. If anyone is interested, email me directly at JGLamar441. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 20:58:19 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jody Whitesides Subject: Drum sound modules Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU I'm looking for opinions on several sound modules, do you have one and what do you like about it? Roland: R8m, R8 drum machine, Alesis D4, Korg x5 (and the pricey one too, they're fairly new I think), the Kawai, and the Roland Sound canvas. What I'm looking for is drum sounds that are velocity sensitive. So that if a drum is played softly it sounds soft. Not a drum that is hit hard and played at a low volume. Do you know if such a thing exists (that is affordable?)? please respond as soon as possible to the posted address. Bis Dann! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 01:59:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert G. Simpson" Subject: Re: Ensoniq Kmx-8 midi patch bay I don't know if there is anything for IBM, But their technical support phone # is 215-647-3930 (call between 9:30 am - 12:15 pm and 1:15 pm - 6:30 pm Eastern Standard time (I guess their lunch break is REAL IMPORTANT to them)). I also use the KMX 8 and I'm real happy with it, although I don't use a computer in my studio (at least, not yet). I'm curious, do you mind me asking what you want to do? You can email direct to kharys@aol.com, if you like, or just post to this list. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 02:22:08 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: Laurie A. and other topics Comments: To: emusic-list They have temporarily released me from the Ivory Tower to get Chinese Take-Out and play a game of croquet. I have scampered off to the computer in order to pass along a bibliographic reference to all of you freedom-fighters out there. Viva Le Temperaments! "The Guests Go In To Supper" -- An anthology containing a conversation with Ms. Anderson on aesthetics, philosophy, etc. Very informative and important document. Other artists covered are John Cage (in the midst of the neverending Cagefests) Robert Ashley, and, yes, even Yoko Ono. Now, I'm not a big fan of Ms. Ono's work (prior to her meeting Mr. Lennon) but she does seem to have a handle on some things. Of course, lucidity is not verifiable in print. I find myself laughing (not always contemptuously) while reading her interview. Occasionally, there is something which causes an abrupt double-take. I highly recommend the book. ++++ Thanks for the info on Lucier recordings! I have what's available on the Lovely Music label, and would indeed like to hear other versions of "I am Sitting..." I am in the process of procuring some recordings of Lucier's work last year at Wesleyan during a festival devoted to him. He is a very gracious man (invited me to give a presentation of analytical and compositional work at Wes.) Perhaps if enough people wrote to him asking for recordings....? My mailing address follows. If you would send a tape with a suggested $fee, I will remit fundage. Making my bleeps longer, just by adding "e's"! Bleeeeeeeee...., And ever-struggling with that contextual predicament, Even as the jailers return, I remain most emphatically yours, Scott McCoy mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu 420 Temple St. #410 New Haven, CT 06511 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:25:22 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Re: Drum sound modules >What I'm looking for is drum sounds that are velocity sensitive. So that >if a drum is played softly it sounds soft. Not a drum that is hit hard and >played at a low volume. Do you know if such a thing exists (that is Uhhh.. Is there any drum machine that isn't velocity sensitive? this is not exactly a high-tech option.. I would be stunned to see a sound module, even the very cheapest without this option. The thing is, if its a drum machine, it may not be velocity sensitive if you are actually banging on the little pads, but if you send it velocity info from your sequencer, or play it through a keyboard, the velocity will vary. --=[ M a c B r u i n ]=-- MacBruin@aol.com * aka Ted Johnson * Los Angeles, California Graphic Design * Interactive Multimedia * Video Production * Music Composition ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 02:38:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert G. Simpson" Subject: Re: Pre-hispanic sounds Is FUTURE MUSIC a magazine? Where can I get it? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 07:39:49 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Drum sound modules In-Reply-To: ; from "Ted Johnson" at Mar 10, 95 11:25 pm ->>What I'm looking for is drum sounds that are velocity sensitive. So that ->>if a drum is played softly it sounds soft. Not a drum that is hit hard and ->>played at a low volume. Do you know if such a thing exists (that is -> ->Uhhh.. Is there any drum machine that isn't velocity sensitive? this is not ->exactly a high-tech option.. I would be stunned to see a sound module, even ->the very cheapest without this option. I cannot offer any real advice, but I can clarify the original question. Most drum machines have a single sample for each triggered sound. As with most accoustic instruments, then a sound is played louder, it is also more brilliant - contains a greater percentage of high end partials. This means that a snare drum played soft will NOT sound the same as a loud snare drum with the volume turned down. Turning the volume down is the simle, and currently NORMAL solution - at least on all the machines I've seen. Anybody know of a machine that allows for that high end harmonic change, and the other changes that go into real dynamic accoustic drumming? I'd be interested, too. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 13:25:30 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: George Loud Organization: Project LearnLink - Emory University Subject: Apple MIDI Manager 2.0.2 Availability Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@american.edu, SYNTH-L@american.edu According to Apple, the Apple MIDI Manager (Version 2.0.2 is compatible with System 7.5) can be ordered through the Apple Programmers and Developers Association (APDA). APDA is Apple's worldwide source for over 300 development tools, technical resources, training products, and information for anyone interested in developing applications on Apple platforms. Customers receive the quarterly APDA Tools Catalog featuring all current versions of Apple and the most popular third-party development tools. Ordering is easy; there are NO membership fees, and application forms are NOT required for most of our products. APDA offers convenient payment and shipping options, including site licensing. You can reach APDA at the following addresses and phone numbers: APDA Apple Computer, Inc. P.O. Box 319 Buffalo, NY 14207-0319 (Phone lines are open Monday through Friday, 10 am to 8 pm, Eastern) Voice: 800-282-2732 U.S. 800-637-0029 Canada 716-871-6555 International 716-871-6511 Fax Internet: APDA@applelink.apple.com AppleLink: APDA America Online: APDA order CompuServe: 76666,2405 Note: The Apple MIDI Manager is a "developer's tool," not a stand-alone application or utility. Updates may ALSO be "provided" by companies which have secured a "license" from Apple to "include" Midi Manager with their software. QuickTime 2.0 does not have MIDI manager built in to it, but it does have MIDI capability. The QuickTime 2.0 Software Developers Kit which is also available from APDA has information on how to take advantage of the Apple MIDI Manager. -- -- /========/ LearnLink: Expanding Educational Horizons !! !! !! Internet/Telnet: bbs.learnlink.emory.edu !! !! !! For information, mail Info@learnlink.emory.edu /========/ "Minds are like parachutes, they must be open to function." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 15:49:59 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert G. Simpson" Subject: Deleting Apparently AOL has "removed" the DELETE function from it's mail program. Consequently, I have to either touch every piece of mail I get from any lists I'm on, or suffer an hideously cluttered inbox. I want to be able to delete several messages at once. Is there any way to do this? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 16:58:30 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dustin McIntyre Subject: Re: Drum sound modules Drum machines are a terrible, needless waste of perfectly good money in this day and age. Sampler. Sampler. Sampler. Multiple outs. Chameleon. Cheap(if you buy used wisely). Plenty of velocity sensitivity and plenty of assignable varition in sound if you use multiple samples. It may not be perfect, but it's a much better investment of time AND dollars than a GM module or a stand alone module, which both only allow for predefined sounds that you will inevitably grow weary of. Trust me on this one, I know that of which I speak(I've gone through three drum machine/modules before coming to this conclusion). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 18:13:24 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Renaissance Man Subject: Re: Drum sound modules Pete Schoenhoff wrote: > I cannot offer any real advice, but I can clarify the original >question. Most drum machines have a single sample for each triggered sound. >As with most accoustic instruments, then a sound is played louder, it >is also more brilliant - contains a greater percentage of high end partials. >This means that a snare drum played soft will NOT sound the same as a loud >snare drum with the volume turned down. Turning the volume down is the >simle, and currently NORMAL solution - at least on all the machines I've seen. >Anybody know of a machine that allows for that high end harmonic change, >and the other changes that go into real dynamic accoustic drumming? I'd >be interested, too. Well, if you have the money, a sampler is the best way to go... (I use a Peavey SP and SX-II combination... Great for the price!) But, if you want to stick with a drum machine, I would recommend that you look at Yamaha's RY30... I use one extensively... It really is more of a synth than most drum machines. The RY30 allows for crossfading between two samples, which can give you that change of timbre that you may be looking for... For example, you can have a ride sample and a cymbal cup sample crossfaded, so that the ride sample is more prominent at low velocities (volumes) and the cup sample is more prominent at high velocities... Another real nice thing about the RY30 is the parameter wheel which lets you change balance, filter, pan, decay or pitch at any time... I find that it's a nice touch to change the balance between the two samples all through a pattern, independently from the actual velocity... For example, using that same ride/cup example, changing the balance between the two gives more of an impression that you are varying the position of the stick on the cymbal... sometimes out toward the edge, sometimes more toward the cup... My guess is that the top of the line Roland drum machine is similar... -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"... "...unless the obviating factor which affects the initial gangleonic mass is inversely proportional to the ego, which can only result in an overstimulation of the retentive capacities of the individual being assessed." -Lynn Johnston PS. Hey, Bambi... ILUG! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 20:17:04 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Earl Engleman User. New user need information on what to" Subject: KORG O1Wfd Anyone out there utilizing this piece of equipment?? Exchange of ideas would be great! Ewe1@AOL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 22:52:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: C-Sound In-Reply-To: <950310201315_45766792@aol.com> from "Bryan Fusilier" at Mar 10, 95 10:30:49 pm > Hey people, I am interested in finding a C-sound front end for Windows. I > heard that UT in Austin was working on some in Pinkstons studio. Please > advise on how I could obtain this. I am also interested in getting in touch > with K-2000 users. It exists; go to the usual "bath" ftp site (ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk) and get wcsound.zip or something close to that. -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * capitalism * virtual reality * Khoros * ARS * robotics * packet * techno * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 00:25:20 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Re: Deleting >Apparently AOL has "removed" the DELETE function from it's mail program. >Consequently, I have to either touch every piece of mail I get from any lists >I'm on, or suffer an hideously cluttered inbox. I want to be able to delete >several messages at once. Is there any way to do this? just use the "Ignore" button... highlight the message (using either mouse or arrow keys) and hit ignore. This will make AOL think you've already read the message and you won't see it again next time you check your mail. --=[ M a c B r u i n ]=-- MacBruin@ucla.com * aka Ted Johnson * Los Angeles, California Graphic Design * Interactive Multimedia * Video Production * Music Composition ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 13:38:14 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Re: Drum sound modules >->>What I'm looking for is drum sounds that are velocity sensitive. So that >->>if a drum is played softly it sounds soft. Not a drum that is hit hard and >->>played at a low volume. Do you know if such a thing exists (that is >-> As response to the above thread, Pete Schoenhoff asks: >Anybody know of a machine that allows for that high end harmonic change, >and the other changes that go into real dynamic accoustic drumming? I'd >be interested, too. Here's one example of a partial implementation: the Yamaha RY30 lets you map velocity to filter cut-off, eg rates, pitch envelope and volume. It's more like a cut-down synthesizer than the 'traditional' sample replay of drum machines. Velocity scaling also lets you velocity cross-fade between sounds, which can be either subtle or... Of course, with the sample set provided in many S&S instruments, programming your own 'velocity=>timbre' mapped sounds is possible too, although it can also use up a whole 'voice' for one drum sound, which might be wasteful for anyone on a limited timbrality budget. I have used this technique as a way of providing an 'expressive/responsive' drum sound on one MIDI channel, whilst retaining the rest of the drum sounds on another channel. (Newbie alert: This is my first response to a Listserv list, so I apologise in advance if editing the >>> indents of a thread is considered poor etiquette - I'm just trying to save space whilst retaining the context of the link) Regards Martin Russ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Russ Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant mruss@midi.dungeon.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 16:38:26 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Close Encounters Sol-Fa Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Yeah, the hand signals the french musicologist was using to notate the musical motif. I'm curious: have any of you conservatory-trained serious musicians ever come across this in serious use? Actually, I'm selfishly hoping the answer is "no," since that suggests that I can go ahead and choreograph a dance piece around the entire gesture set without fear that it's been done already. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 15:37:26 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Deleting In-Reply-To: <950311154819_46409511@aol.com> from "Robert G. Simpson" at Mar 11, 95 03:49:59 pm > > Apparently AOL has "removed" the DELETE function from it's mail program. > Consequently, I have to either touch every piece of mail I get from any lists > I'm on, or suffer an hideously cluttered inbox. I want to be able to delete > several messages at once. Is there any way to do this? > Oh dear. This explains why we have so many bounces, then. I suggest STRONGLY that AOL'ers set emusic-l to digest (if you're not already getting it that way). To do that send the following to listserv@american.edu: set emusic-l digest --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 16:04:19 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rick Becker Subject: Re: Deleting No AOL doesn't give you a batch delete function. I think they want you to stay on the line longer. If you use flash-sessions though, you can delete all the messages a once and they will end up dissapearing in your in-box as well. Write AOL and tell them they are boneheads! Rick. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 15:28:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Macalester College Music Department Subject: Re: Alvin Lucier In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Fri, 10 Mar 1995 22:56:00 -0500" <950310224143_45892608@aol.com> > Scott McCoy asked about extant versions of "I am Sitting In a Room". I know > that the community radio station I worked at in Cleveland several years ago > made a digital recording of Lucier performing the piece at the Sonic > Disturbance Festival. Lucier also performed Music for a Small Thin Wire, or > whatever it's called, where standing waves are manipulated down a long taut > wire. It's a creepy sensation to hear a sound literally traveling to and > fro, with Doppler effect and everything, all in all a very impressive > installation. Other than that, he also performed A piece involving using an > umbrella as a parabolic acoustic reflector, not quite as interesting but > still neat. Lastly, there was a very dada sort of thing he did with a piano > and a teakettle. The teakettle contained a small speaker and had a ceramic > lid. A tiny recording device was also set up in the teapot and the whole > apparatus was set up atop a Steinway grand, upon which Lucier played a > stilted rendition of "Strawberry Fields Forever". He then initiated playback > from within the teakettle (the sound of the piano had obviously been > seriously altered by the interior acoustic of the teapot, a very Lewis > Carroll-type idea), manipulating the playback further by slowly removing and > replacing the lid. As i said before, all these recordings are in the > archives at WRUW in Cleveland. If anyone is interested, email me directly at > JGLamar441. James...my system cannot use your address as given, and I would like to contact you regarding the WRUW archives. Please send me the complete address so we may corespond. THanks, ed forner +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Ed Forner Macalester College Music Department + + forner@macalstr.edu voice (612) 696-6189 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 18:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Verdino Subject: Re: Korg O1Wfd I'm an 01/W user. I don't know about swapping sequences but I would be interested in sharing information and/or patches. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:10:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andy Frazier Subject: Re: Drum sound modules The Alesis D4 literature says it has "Dynamic Articulation," i.e., it triggers different samples based on velocity. I have used the unit for about 3 years now, and I can say it has never sounded unrealistic. A drummer friend uses one with trigger pads, and he's thrilled with it. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 18:17:40 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jody Whitesides Subject: R8m list or discussion Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU I'm wondering if anyone knows of a mailing list for the Roland R8m drum module. Or if anyone is well versed with this device, whether or not they would be willing to take a bunch of ?'s. Much appreciated. Bis Dann! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:30:19 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa In-Reply-To: ; from "Nick Rothwell" at Mar 12, 95 4:38 pm These are the graceful words of Nick Rothwell: ->Yeah, the hand signals the french musicologist was using to notate the ->musical motif. I'm curious: have any of you conservatory-trained serious ->musicians ever come across this in serious use? ->Actually, I'm selfishly hoping the answer is "no," since that suggests that ->I can go ahead and choreograph a dance piece around the entire gesture set ->without fear that it's been done already. Actually, the hand signals for tonic SolFa were taken from the technique of Emile Jaques-Dalcroze, the French composer, musicologist, and music educator, but the technique was adapted and put into more widespread use by Zoltan Kodaly, a Hungarian composer and music educator. He is mainly associated now with the hand signals. Many current music educators use the hand signals as an effective way of learning pitch relationships, as well as the pulling feelings of FA (pulls down to MI) and TI (pulls up to DO) Upward and downward contour is well taught this way as well. The technique is taught in several colleges (especially to music ed students) and in many public schools. The county in which I teach music requires Kodaly SolFa and the hand signals to be taught. So, yes, it is in fairly serious use. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 22:38:06 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Donel Young Subject: Joshua Fried music in NewYork Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU In-Reply-To: <199411011404.JAA02777@escape.com> from "Wolfgang von Stuermer" at Nov 1, 94 03:00:52 pm CONTACT: DONEL YOUNG (Hansen & Young) 908/295-2406, jf@escape.com ** NEW YORK, NEXT WEEKEND: Two performances of two works by Joshua Fried, "a composer of wild electronic imagination and stirring showmanship" (Village Voice). ** Joshua Fried's TRAVELOGUE and the Fried/Iris Rose mini-opera CAMDEN will be performed next Saturday and Sunday, in the TWEED New Works Festival 10-year retrospective, at the Ohio Theater in Soho. (Specifics below.) In TRAVELOGUE, a vocalist must imitate pre-recorded voices played over headphones, without any lag time, while a synchronized Friedian back-up tape rages. The headphone tape is completely new and unexpected to the performer, hence a dramatic form of semi-gibberish emerges--and each performer can do the piece only once. "TRAVELOGUE was a tour de force."--Jack Anderson, New York Times. "Brilliant...a Hitchcockian, mind-blowing theater piece."--Kyle Gann, Village Voice. CAMDEN, first performed in 1985, is a 20-minute solo electronic folk opera, written and sung by Iris Rose to a score by Fried. It captures the true story of a welfare mother who drowns her four children. "Wonderful, wheezing throbs of an industrial beast breathing its last."--Chiori Santiago, High Performance. Named "important work" by Artforum. DATE/TIME: Saturday-Sunday, March 18-19, 7:30pm PLACE: TWEED Festival, Ohio Theater, 66 Wooster Street (Spring & Broome), New York FEATURING: Iris Rose, Elise Kermani (Saturday), Randolph Curtis Rand (Sunday) RESERVATIONS: 212/924-0077 [The performances are on a triple bill with "R.A.W. (Raunchy Asian Women)" a play by Diana Son.] Background on Joshua Fried: Fried's work and collaborations have been presented widely, from the Knitting Factory to the Dutch Royal Palace. His recording "Jimmy Because" (with guest guitarist Fred Frith) was released on Atlantic Records. A recipient of a 1995 NEA Grant (one of the last?), Fried is now working on a multi-performer work that builds on the style of Travelogue, and a major collaboration with choreographer Douglas Dunn. CONTACT: DONEL YOUNG (Hansen & Young) 908/295-2406, jf@escape.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 23:10:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Earl Engleman User. New user need information on what to" Subject: Re: Korg O1Wfd Great on the swap of information and or patches on the Korg o1w, Are you utilzing any of the rom and ram cards? Ewe1 @AOL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 04:09:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mace Yampolsky Subject: Re: Drum sound modules Try the Yamaha Mu 80 it has great drum sounds. I'm also in the market for a sound module and that is my leading candidate. Good Luck MAce ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 12:43:13 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "john.." Subject: Mixing Desk choices... Comments: To: emusic-l mailing list Hello everyone! One of those old chestnuts...... I need a mixing desk. That's it. Ok, well I would like at least 16 input channels, some reasonable EQ, and a few Aux sends/returns. I'm recording only synthesisers (all except one are mono) without multitracking (i.e. I'm going direct to DAT). I have about 600-700 UK Pounds to spend. I have narrowed my choice down to the following (after reading various magazine reviews) - this is my order of preference without actually hearing them 1) Samson MPL2242, 2) Mackie 1604, (I know that this one is a favourite with many people) 3) Spirit Folio Rac-Pac. I'm planning to go and listen to them all in the near future, but any opinions that you have will be taken into account!! Thanks for reading this far. john.. |\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|p | mail: jat5@unix.york.ac.uk |||Flex music, York, UK. |h | jat@ohm.york.ac.uk ||| "home of the hits" |a | web: http://www.york.ac.uk/~jat5/ ||| (01904) 610745 |k |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|e ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:18:42 +1900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Close encounters sol-fa In-Reply-To: <199503130600.BAA133495@atlanta.american.edu> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 4 X-Sun-Content-Length: 347 Back in my school days I took 2 years of pretty intense solfeggio. My instructor was schooled in the Italian school which made no use of hand signals. Perhaps the signs you saw were restricted to a French method (they **would** be different). I think the Kodaly method of instruction makes some use of hand signs. Perhaps that's what you saw... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:11:10 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: RE: PSEUDOMODULI INTERRUPTIS From: JOEL STERN Subject: Re: PSEUDOMODULI INTERRUPTIS Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu mike sez: >I would agree with this completely where music was concerned; in >the device had nothing to do with music and everything to do wit >a bunch of dumbass devices to work together harmoniously; more a >matter than anything else. I refer to the Studio 5LX, the first >interface and processor that works the way it should for me. I a >to get the 5LX to do actual creative stuff in building hyperinst >such, and there I ride with its existing feature set and see whe Ah yes, janitorial work and hyperinstrumentation: an oft overlooked nexus. Seriously, your point is well taken--if you need to get a signal from point A to point B and your hardware isn't up to it you can throw serendipity out the window (or your interface at the wall). Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:25:32 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa >These are the graceful words of Nick Rothwell: > >->Yeah, the hand signals the french musicologist was using to notate the >->musical motif. I'm curious: have any of you conservatory-trained serious >->musicians ever come across this in serious use? >->Actually, I'm selfishly hoping the answer is "no," since that suggests that >->I can go ahead and choreograph a dance piece around the entire gesture set >->without fear that it's been done already. > >[from Pete Schoenhoff] > Many current music educators use the hand signals as an effective >way of learning pitch relationships, as well as the pulling feelings of >FA (pulls down to MI) and TI (pulls up to DO) Upward and downward contour >is well taught this way as well. The technique is taught in several colleges >(especially to music ed students) and in many public schools. The county in >which I teach music requires Kodaly SolFa and the hand signals to be taught. >So, yes, it is in fairly serious use. I went to school with a vocal/music-ed guy who used SolFa with his _extreme_ competitive high school vocal choir. It does, however, seem to be primarily limited to music educational circles. [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 628-3045(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@devlac.ems.com .............................................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:34:16 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Friesen Subject: Re: Drum Sound Modules re.: whether there are drum sound modules that will change the timbre of a sound with respect to velocity. The Roland SPD-8 (and most likely the SPD-11) drum pads have a parameter which allows the user to set the degree to which a filter opens/closes in response to the velocity with which a pad is struck. Given that the architecture (and the sounds) of the SPD series seems to be a direct knockoff from the R8 & R8M, I'd be very surprised if these machines did not offer a similar function. The velocity-filter thing is really pretty neat to play with: particularly when one is using a pad rather than a keyboard as a controller. When set for extreme values, you can get some highly dramatic effects happening. Of course, the dramatic thing works best if your velocity response curve (also programmable on the SPD units) is set for some kind of logarithmic scale. Share and enjoy, Michael Friesen "To stive, to seek, to find, and not to yeild." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 11:00:46 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Mar 12, 95 04:38:26 pm Nick Rothwell writes-- > >Yeah, the hand signals the french musicologist was using to notate the >musical motif. I'm curious: have any of you conservatory-trained serious >musicians ever come across this in serious use? Um, I was trained that way, Nick, for several years...it does weird things to your reflexes and actually improves your solfeggio learning pace. At least it did with me and the other students in my ear-training class. >Actually, I'm selfishly hoping the answer is "no," since that suggests that >I can go ahead and choreograph a dance piece around the entire gesture set >without fear that it's been done already. Do it anyway. :) mike -- mike metlay \ atomic city \ "Just be thankful that you're not the one with the p.o.box 81175 \ breasts. She's **really** in for it." pgh pa 15217-0675 \ (m. carnes) atomic@netcom.com \ From LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU Wed Jan 17 18:55:07 1996 Received: from atlanta.american.edu (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA08777 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:54:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA107499 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:35:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199601172335.SAA107499@atlanta.american.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:35:32 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b)" Subject: File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9503C" To: Joe McMahon Status: O ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:23:44 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: MAURO MAIBRADA Subject: Controller URGENT! Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU I need information on controller keyboards. I am particularly interested on the Kurzweil PC 88. I would like to have your opinion on this equipment concerning keys action and the piano sound. As you can see I am only interested on full 88 weighted keyboard controlllers. I would like also to hear your opinion on other controllers with this characteristics . Thanks for your help. MAURO MAIBRADA IN%"MAIBRADA @NPD1.UFPE.BR" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 20:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Harold C Cowherd Subject: Re: "Collage Technique" Hello David, Mike et. al., Sorry, it took a while to respond to the "collage" question, just got back from spring break and was working on the diss(ertation). Anyway, I wrote in an earlier posting... >As a matter of fact, compositionally I do make use of collages in my >electro-acoustic music--typically what I do is employ anywhere from two or >three styles concurrently in a composition, needless to say this creates a Mike Metlay (Atomic City) wrote in response (Sat, 4 Mar 1995)... >Buh. How do you do this? I wouldn't even know where to start. I have >an almost instinctive avoidance of clashes in rhythm or style, for >fear that my work will become murky...how do you make it 'work'? David Rodger responded (Tue, 7 Mar 1995)... >this reminds me of Schnittke. He uses different styles in the same piece, but >not concurrently; he tends to shift from one to another. So much so that upon >my first hearing I thought he must have a very short attention span. I am NOT >a fan! My response centers on two basic principles (ideas?) when using this technique. First, when planning this out it's a good idea that each of the "lines" of music must be textually light, because Mike makes a very good point concerning the "murky" musical result. It would be absolutely imperative that the textures be light and straightforward. Second, though this approach to composition clearly mimics the Renaissance "successive composition" approach to composing (or constructing as in the case of electro-acoustic composition) one nevertheless is relying on aleatoricism or, in this case, composer indeterminacy when constructing pieces--in other words, this is a trial by error and fire. I believe that anyone can get satisfactory results if one remembers to keep the textures light. But then again, it's my dance and may not be anyone else's. About Schnittke. I'm not up on my Schnittke as I probably should, but if what David says is true, I would to nuts! If the styles changes rapidly and are not concurrent, it seems to me that his compositions (if this is indeed pervasive in most or many of his compositions) are going to have a unity problem. How can these works be unified...but then again that could be the point. I will listen and learn... Peace, Harold C. Cowherd cowherdh@student.msu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:51:31 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Mixing Desk choices... >I need a mixing desk. That's it. Reply going to SYNTH-L. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:50:23 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Drum sound modules > Drum machines are a terrible, needless waste of perfectly good money in >this day and age. I think I about three-quarters agree with you. There are some things that drum machines are timbrally set up to do which MIDI sound sources are not. Here's an example: on my R8 I can record a pattern with several instruments (samples), and then scrub through an instrument in several passes, using the data entry slider to ride the pitch settings for each hit and store the result in the pattern. I can do that individually for each of several sounds. Doing that for a sampler would be very difficult. Drum machines also provide the traditional pattern-based interface, with some fine and detailed editing facilities, and possibly randomisation and feel factors, through a highly tactile interface, which (IMHO) beats the hell out of a mouse00000. The problems I have with drum machines are: they're bulky as playback sources (and the R8 takes a lot of table-space in any case); and the onboard software and data structuring facilities tend to be very, very crude. The R8 has no edit buffers, no easy way to cut and paste patterns and their child data (edited "copy instruments"), no way to automatically associate a pattern with a set of pad assignments, no way to keep layers of rhythm separate while editing them, and so on. I have to admit I've not really felt that comfortable programming the R8, but a lot of that is probably due to the lack of decent data structuring: anything I might edit can potentially destroy any other pattern in the machine. I suspect I'll eventually knock up a decent librarian and a set of editing utilities in MAX, as always... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 21:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Earl Engleman User. New user need information on what to" Subject: Re: Korg O1Wfd I have alot of information on the Korg O1wfd and learned alot the hard way, if you have any questions please write maybe I can answer. Also Alexander publishing produced some great books on it, which made you want to throw the Korg manuals away. Ewe1@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:14:49 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Steinkamp Subject: Re: Drum sound modules > Drum machines are a terrible, needless waste of perfectly good money in >this day and age. ....... I believe this would depend on ones current needs. Mike Steinkamp Musician, Educator http://unitravel.com/mstein/ DeSoto Public Schools/Jefferson College vdd001@mail.connect.more.net "Education is the art of explanation." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 01:16:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "William R. Shannon" Subject: HyperMIDI anyone? Does anyone know if the HyperCard extension HyperMIDI is still available and where? Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 00:28:51 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Edson Subject: We are ALL sitting in a room! Folks; After all the discussion of recordings of Alvin Lucier's _I Am Sitting In a Room_, and after tracking down the Lovely Music cd recording of same, I have been struck by the fact that I, at least, missed the point. _IASIAR_ is one of a number of pieces Lucier composed that are primarily about exploring the musicality of acoustic space. Repeated playback and recording emphasize the resonant frequencies of the "Room" in question, gradua lly eliminating most elements of the spoken text and producing an eerie, glass-harmonica-esque sound portrait of the space. The score, as printed in the periodical _Source: Music of the Avant Garde_, contains directions for the piece and a text which begins, "I am sitting in a room different from the one you are in now," and continues with a description of the process through which the composition is performed. Here's where I missed the boat, and some of you may have: the directions are there so that we can perform (realize?) this composition ourselves. The score is NOT documentation for a pre-existing work, it is a set of directions with the implicit challenge that we should explore our "rooms" in the same way. Lucier even admits the use of other texts ("the following paragraph or any other of about the same length", I think it says- I don't have it here.). The challenge is even present in the text Lucier provides "...different from the one you are in now." With a piece such as this, where the process is the point, can the composer's realization ever be considered definitive or even exemplary? Paul Edson wespee@aol.com "Fate takes pleasure in repetitions, variants, symmetries." -Jorge Luis Borges ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:44:21 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Rothwell to the MAX In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Mar 10, 95 08:05:51 pm Nick Rothwell writes-- > >>But the medium doesn't lend itself to >>the development of gestural technique, only to the recording and arrangment >>AFTER the gesture. > >Agreed, although I remember when sequencers *were* things which could be >used gesturally, in the years B.M. The other issue is that >sequencers-as-recorders don't have a notion of control structure (like >initialising an instrument properly); all one can do is assembly-code the >MIDI instructions. This is also a straightjacket, although of a slightly >different kind. It's one that short-circuits a lot of things that we take for granted when we reach for knobs; we are capable of making implicit assumptions and evaluations about initial conditions and processes that the computer cannot (easily). Interestingly, this is one of the areas that the ZIPI protocol is being designed to address, although the high speed is what has everyone all rigid right now. >But the beauty of using MAX is that the walls are all soft. I'm impressed. This normally requires the use of mind-altering substances. :) >>Well, at the rate my life is changing right now, vanishing into the >>woodwork with a copy of MAX may be in my future yet. One question: I'm >>looking at the possibility of a used Color Classic > >That would probably do. (Although I thought you had one at one stage?) No, but I almost did. A friend here has one that is very nice; it's (essentially) portable, and has two good MIDI-usable serial ports, which would make it a good second/live MIDI machine (since, as you predicted, I have realized that the SMF sequencer isn't gonna do it for me). >Y'know, I can see you in a few years: Metlay Junior deep in concentration >with head buried in a box of Meccano, trunnions and brass gears all over >the place, and Metlay Senior deep in concentration with head buried in the >MAX documentation, funnels and makenotes all over the place. And both >wondering Why It Doesn't Work. If this kidlet is a Metlay, while Papa is playing with patchcords, Micro will have no interest in anything OTHER than patchcords. We'll save a lot on Meccano, but I'll have to keep grape juice away from the rig. >>I've never actually gone so far >>as to throw a piece of gear that makes me crazy against the wall > >Ah, yes; the ADAT is John Rossi's, isn't it? Well, it was doing the best it could, and it responded well to being re-initialized, so while it stressed me out a lot I never actually felt like hurting it. The fact that Rossi's capable of easily beating me in a fair fight might also figure in some. I just ate my stir-fried greens and contemplated a life with no ADAT.... mike -- mike metlay \ atomic city \ "Just be thankful that you're not the one with the p.o.box 81175 \ breasts. She's **really** in for it." pgh pa 15217-0675 \ (m. carnes) atomic@netcom.com \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 21:51:51 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa > Many current music educators use the hand signals as an effective >way of learning pitch relationships, as well as the pulling feelings of >FA (pulls down to MI) and TI (pulls up to DO) Upward and downward contour >is well taught this way as well. This is starting to get interesting. What I have here is an ancient book (hang on, where did I put it? Damn. Ah: AURAL CULTURE AND MUSICAL APPRECIATION, PART I, dated 1910, new edition of 1914) which shows the seven hand signs but I haven't come across "pulling" or anything like this so far, and without a formal training myself I'm not familiar with this stuff, so any input would be welcome. Kodaly. That's pronounced "Kodai", yes? Please be patient with me... The idea I have is that the dancer learn the basic notation, and then we work on phrases, either choreographed or improvised, the point being that she is actually "playing" the notes since I'll sight-read her gestures. Around that basic idea we'll add material: the notes will be feeding a MAX system which I can control with the fader-box, so there's a good deal of potential sound-wise, and movement-wise I have a feeling that we can start with the hand signals and apply Cunningham technique to flesh out the choreography. I only had this idea a couple of days ago, and haven't actually approached anyone with it yet. It's my baby. Thanks to Michael and Darwin for comments also. Ah. Just flicking through the first few pages of the book, it does indeed credit Jaques-Dancroze for his "system of Rhythmic Gymnastics." Hmm. Could we have an Arts Council performance proposal here, I wonder? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 12:09:45 WST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Geoff Moss Subject: Electric to MIDI conversion Hi - I'm new to this group and I've got an interesting problem I need help with solving!! I would like to be able to send note on/off information to my MIDI keyboard using everyday electrical switches. I am looking for information on converting an electrical signal into something that a MIDI device can interpret. I envisage many switches; each devoted to one particular note. Information on voltages, MIDI formats, byte values, availability of kits, experience in this area all will be greatly appreciated. Can you help please?? Geoff. *%^) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 18:25:35 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: PC as DRUM M. In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:20:03 +0200 from Hello, I'm replying to old old message which I found going through 600 emails from emusic-l and synth-l. It was very very interesting. I must say that going through those letters was VERY INTERESTING though many complained. I saved much of letters into my archives. Even those low-fidelity stupid comments about lists. I hope that by the end of next week I will 'digest' remaining 300 emails on my account. Meanwhile I lost my account and many things with it. Most important of all I lost many unanswered letters so I just have this one to reply. I remember somebody mentioned an shareware program for PC to use as a drum machine. On Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:20:03 +0200 said: >I'm replying to this (old) message sent by Jacek L. on 12-JAN-1995 > >>Hello ! > > Hello... > >> >> I have a question. I decided not to use PC as a sequencing machine >>because of software which isn't matching my needs. (very subjective >>opinion) Though having SB 16 bit (with some 3 CD rom connections) and >>a MIDI cable, with a 486DX2/66MHz, I'm seeking some way to use it >>in my small composing hole. I don't know exactly what are SB's features >>and even how many DA converters does it contain. Anyway I'm wondering >>if the whole PC+Card can be used as an 'sampler' controlled by MIDI >>from another sequencer (in this case my oldie Amiga 500). To attain this >>I must obtain some software (for sample playback controlled by MIDI). >>If such software does not exist I will be forced to write own software. >>Anyway having bad experiences with Cakewalk with timing of such playback >>I must therefore seek information on what are existing similair >>solutions (and maybe finding out what is an WAVETABLE?) > > WAVETABLE is another kind of synthesys used in sound cards. I don't know > why they call this WAVETABLE and not PCM but they are essentially the > same thing: instead of generating a sound using FM synthesys, like > your SoundBlaster, (that is one of the more complicated things that your > mind can think of) they make a sample of a sound and then chage its > frequency to match all the notes of a keyboard. The result is a much > more good reproduction of real instruments. Do You know if the samle is converted so that the length is same on lower keys and upper keys ? Most PCM based synths (surely older ones) play samples slowly in lower range and fastly in upper range. > >> >>Here goes my question : >> >>Does anybody know how many DA converters does an typical SB16bit card contain? >>(in this case how many .wavs will be played at 1 time) > > A "typical" SB16 card (like any other game orinted card on the market) has > two DA converters: one for the Left and one for the Rigth audio channels > (in truth it should contains 20 more DA converters for the FM sounds, but > you can't use it for this job). This means that you can play two channels > of mono audio at the same time like the Roland RAP10 card does. > > To do a test drive of this you can open you preferred wav editor and record > a stereo sampling. Record two different sources (one on the Left and one > one the Rigth) and here you are a multitrack digital recording. If your > software allows you to import or mix wavefiles you can also import two > different files on the L and R channels (for example a Drum base and a > Bass line) and listen to the result. Yes, I understand, it's very interesting. Can mixing of wavefiles be done in a simple way ? If yes then how ? > > But we are just at the beginning. > If you are cool enough in computer programming you can do MORE and MORE! > The fact that your sound board has 2 DAC doesn't mean that you are stuck > with 2 waves. It means that you can have only two indipendent output. > Anyway you can record how many wave you like, then you can mix it in > REAL TIME down to the 2 DA channels and send them out. This is really > like the MOD players manage to have 8 or more voices polyphonie, with the > difference that they just use PCM or WAVETABLE like synthesys to play > midi-style (event driven) music. > Now you could think about the money that you save by home making your > multitrack HD recording system. Well... forget it! > Where are the faults? I will show you part of them now and some other > later. > > #1. Real Time Mixing. --Not Very Bad. > You have to be really cool in making the code for real time mixing because > of the very fast flow of information that you must send to the card. > Example. > If you are playing back at 22.050 kHz (8 bit) you have to perform all the > necessary job in less than 0.00005 seconds otherwise you'll hear some > spaces between samples. This is MUCH WORSE if you are playing back at > 44.100 or 48 kHz. > Anyway there are some tricks to avoid this, but it's too long to explain. That's my point. I was wondering if I could do a simple mix of waveforms. But from what You say it reminds me it's an fast playback of samples switching from one to another with a very high frequency. Maybe there is some other way of combining together sample data like using some superposition algorithm ? (wave + wave = wave) or maybe I don't get the whole idea of this > > #2. Data Trnsfer. -- Very Bad. > One of the problems of computer based digital recording is the > cpu activity and the poor 8 Mhz 16 bit bus of PCs. > This is bad because the data trasferring to the can occur too late, > producing gaps between blocks of signal. > Not many solutions for this problem with commercial cards. Does this apply to a SB 16bit card ? If I understand You correct You are talking about 8 and 16 bit slots on the mainboard. > > Now, a bit of good news. > Microsoft has released a DLL for doing this job. It is called WAVMIX > (or something the like) and you can find it at ftp.microsoft.com in one > of the drg directorys. It allows you to mix up to 8 wav files (if I'm > correct) in real time, as they do in the Microsoft Arcade pack. It > is intended primary for games, but can do the job as well. > You still can't do serious multitrack application, but it is lot's of fun. THANX THANX THANX, I will SURELY look into it, I don't want to do a SERIOUS multitrack application mainly because of lack of time, but who knows what future will bring. Second reason for NOT doing this is HD disk capacity which has to be high, and the quality of PC sound cards. But I would love to experiment, and at least end up with my original idea. I would like to write an application which would be able of storing up to 16 PCM samples (called .wav files) in memory, beeing able to give them MIDI channels, beeing able to give them 'starting point' and 'ending point' (f.e. loading bass drum and snare drum on the same channel and splitting them on the keyboard), beeing able to shift pitch of waves to tune them to keys (some wavs are recorded badly) > >>Also is there an existing software which allows of feeding the memory with >>.wav files and assigning a MIDI channel to a .wav sample ? > > Yes, look for WavePlayer from Steinberg. It is really a GREAT STUFF. > It is a device driver that you can use from every MIDI application. > You open the driver, map Midi Keys with sounds and then you assign that > driver as output of a track in your sequencer software. > I don't know if it manages polyphonic output anyway. I will check and let > you know. Looks like what I want to write. I want it to be controlled from other sequencer than PC programs which I find user-NOT-friendly. Is it possible to redirect MIDI flow from the card into the application ? > >>I don't want to go through a path which somebody once already went through. >>It might turn out at the end that things I want to do are not possible. >> >>Btw, is it possible to use the 16bit AD/DA converters for HD digital >recording? >>(like an DAT recorder?). I know, I know, SBs are noisy etc...but I'm just >>trying to get most of what I have and not dream about things I can't have... > > Well, here comes the other faults. > Yes, you could use the SB as a digital recorder but first of all you need > a program that can do this. > The big problem is once again the tons of data that your card send to the > computer expecially when recording at 44.1 16bit stereo. > The best solution for this is to buy the more ram that you can. But also > doing so you are not assured that it will work the rigth way. > The best thing to do is to make your own recording software. If you are > involved in Windows programming it is a snap! The only thing that you have > to do is keep out of your mind any other type of processing while you > are recording to avoid cpu overload. > One interesting thing is to make a non realtime multitrack recorder. > This means that you can record how many tracks you want in one time and > then mix it down to two. The only problem is the HD capacity. Yes, I kind of figured it out myself. > > Once you have done all this you'll discover that your recording' sound > is very bad. There are many causes for this but mainly it depends > from the real sampling resolution of your board. A 16 bit ADC/DAC is not > synonymous of CD quality. It is the number of significant bit that makes > the difference. For example I have a Microsoft Windows Sound System board > that I buyed because of the AD/DA chip that it uses: the Analog Device > AD1848JP. It is really a good chip and WSS is one of the few Sound Board > capable of 48 kHz sampling. > If you look Analog Dev.'s data sheet you'll see that dinamic range of > the 1848JP ADC is 72 dB while the DAC has 78 dB. A 16 bit ADC/DAC should > have 96 dB of d.r. Since every bit of resolution add 6 more dB to the range > it means that the 1848JP's ADC has 12 bit resolution, while DAC has 13. > This are good values but they are a lot far from professional equipment and > even from partable CD players. I know about AD/DA converters from my university and the course I'm on. I was just wandering why SBs are so poor when they do have the capability of sampling the CD frequency standart. Samplers (AD converters) have two parameters in theory that is sampling frequency and quantize resolution which is determined by bit number. BUt I guess that in real life there are many more things like filters (anty-aliasing) correctors, and types of converters which differ technically. > > I think that Sound Blaster is even vorse. They always have had problems in > making good ADC/DACs. If you don't belive in this try to record at 44.1 > kHz with a non 16 bit Sound Blaster. The playback will sound worse than > the same recording made at 22 kHz. What's that? The fact is that even if > they say that 8 bit Sblaster can sample up to 44.1 kHz, they don't. > Only the DAC is capable of this frequency so they record at 22 kHz and then > doubles every sample to achive a 44.1 kHz frequency. Doing so, digitally > speaking, means applying a low pass filter to the sound. > The last consideration is that every sound board with ADC & DACs that is > not "schermata" (open your Italian Dictionary and look for the meaning > of this word) will add noise that comes from the HDD & FDD controller. > > At the very end my best raccomandation is: instead of making a software > for HD recording, try to build your own sound board. I'm doing so and I > think it pays the effort. > Hehe, no no, I'm not such an genious. I'm not much into electronics. Btw, my friend built an PC-MIDI card. It costed him about 6 USD to do it because it's based on some MOTOROLA chip. He is some kind of weirdo, and is trying to write an own software program instead of figuring out the compability of it with other cards. He is sure it WONT work with anything that is ready and existing on the market. I think he might be wrong. He doesn't know computer-programming at all though is an good electronician. In my opinion if a card works on an IRQ and uses 'typical' transfer protocol (like f.i. com port) than it has to work with some typical MIDI card driver like MPU401 or something. It surely works with synthesizer because he can send some data beetwen synth and PC. ON the other hand I don't know if it might require some special driver which has to be defined to convert data stream... Well I'll try to persuade him to experiment a little... >Good luck. > >Saluti, Ale. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I heared a fly buzz - when I died... > With Blue - uncertain stumbling Buzz - > Between the light - and me - > And then the Windows failed. > > Emily Dickinson and a Windows user >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Alessandro Fiorletta - ccd505@tovvx2.ccd.utovrm.it >University of Tor Vergata - Rome >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanx for Your interesting reply. I surely have new ideas after reading it. Jacek L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jacek Latanowicz emails : jack@vm.amu.edu.pl Ul.Porzeczkowa 27 jlat@phys.amu.edu.pl 61-306 Poznan, Poland jlat@uci1.ae.poz.edu.pl Tel/Fax (+48-61) 798202 jlat@plearn.edu.pl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Future : If You don't like something press the OFF button it should be somewhere near You...if not contact Your nearest circuit doctor' ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 21:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert G. Simpson" Subject: ROLAND JV-880 I'm thinking of buying one of these. Does anyone have any experience with using a Roland GR-9 to control guitar voices on the 880? How well does it work? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 16:53:08 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa In-Reply-To: <199503131900.LAA08093@netcom17.netcom.com>; from "atomic city" at Mar 13, 95 11:00 am These are the graceful words of atomic city: ->>Actually, I'm selfishly hoping the answer is "no," since that suggests that ->>I can go ahead and choreograph a dance piece around the entire gesture set ->>without fear that it's been done already. -> ->Do it anyway. :) -> ->mike I really believe that's the best advice I've seen since I've been on this board! Don't let the "first" hinder the "best!" -- -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 22:16:46 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Krocker Subject: Analogue Heaven Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Does anybody have the email address of analogue heaven? Is it on a listserv or do you have to send the request to a moderator? Thanks in advance Jon Krocker jkrocker@mbnet.mb.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 22:47:21 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gary Goldberg Subject: Re: Drum sound modules please check out the Roland SPD11 it will blow you away, very velocity sensitive, one can also edit velocity response curves. Great sounds, killer layers played by a "drummer" and recorded onto a sequencing prog in realtime/played back sounds so life like.get the full setup with the highhat pedal, kick drum pedal and two side pads for snare and hihat the open and closed hat is great and you can actually grap the pad and it sounds like your hand has muted the hihat. You have got to check it out in it's full setup. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 19:50:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Edson Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa Aren't the Sol-Fa handsignals you're talking about from the didactic system developed by Guido D'Arezzo in the early Renaissance? Look up "Guidonian Hand" or "Guido D'Arezzo" in a music dictionary, and see if this relates. (I would give more info, but I just moved and all my reference books are in limbo somewhere.) Paul Edson wespee@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:25:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Vernon Subject: Re: Close Encounters Sol-Fa Hand signals in Close Encounters is indeed a reality, sorry to burst your bubble. Zoltan Kodaly, Hungarian composer and music educator, developed a method of sight-singing for children using these hand signals, which correlate to the diatonic scale steps. They are used widely in music education today, so I believe you should have no trouble using them in your choregraphy - however, outside of elementary-school music classes, they are no t widely-recognized by the general public. Good luck!