========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: * ESGER * Subject: E-music on the net home page Comments: To: Tadream Mailing List Comments: cc: space-music-digest@cs.uwp.edu, kraftwerk-digest@cs.uwp.edu Dear fellow netters and E-music lovers, I'm trying to put up a homepage on Electronic music. I've found a few nice resources so far but I need more. Since I don't have a lot of time to roam the net in search of them I'm writing this letter. If you know about information on the net concerning electronic music, please E-mail me the URL of that info. I will incorporate it ASAP into the "E-music on the Net" home page. People who want to check out the page can point their browser at: http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger/emusic/emusic.html All information and comments are of course warmly welcomed and I'll try to mention the contributors on the page somewhere. People who want to donate audioclips to the page (mostly welcomed are clips from artists who I don't own CD's of) are encouraged to do so, the only twitch is that I have only limited (8meg) diskspace. Links to audioclips would be better. Thanks a lot (at least for reading this :-) Geert Raes Esger@reks.uia.ac.be ciao, --------------------------------------------------------------------------- SGR aka Geert Raes esger@uia.ua.ac.be http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-music on the Net : http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger/emusic/emusic.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------- People talking about the environment ought to read "The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner, then they'll know what polution is. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:18:39 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: dat's the way u-huh u-huh In-Reply-To: <950327211942_63211565@aol.com> from "Paul Taylor" at Mar 27, 95 09:19:43 pm I'm not sure I'm following you, Paul. You mean our descent (or maybe ascent) into philosophy? Happens once in a while. Just ignore us. :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: E-music on the net home page In-Reply-To: from "* ESGER *" at Mar 28, 95 11:51:34 am Well, of course there's the EMUSIC-L home page, which is at http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:44:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Swing In-Reply-To: from "Hall, Troy" at Mar 27, 95 02:03:14 pm > IOW, if you can't recognize it, find a bunch of people who _can_, hang out > with them, listen to jazz (n.b. not the only music that swings -- Bach can > swing, too), and *experience* the music together. It's not exactly a > transcendental, transformational, LCD-induced thing you go through, but > you'll get it over time. > Yes, it's a very physical, non-verbal thing. In a seminar with Stan Kenton's big band waaay back in high school, baand members strongly recommended swaying to the music or tapping one's foot in a way that involved as much motion as possible. When the rest of the band is swinging, it's very easy to use this to lock in with everyone else. Samples of stuff you can find easily that swings very hard indeed: - Weather Report: Birdland (from the album _Heavy Weather_) - Angelo Badalameni: Twin Peaks Theme (from the _Twin Peaks_ soundtrack) - Lyle Mays: Feet First (from the album _Street Dreams_) - Was (Not Was): Walk the Dinosaur (from _What Up, Dog?_) Steely Dan: nearly any album. Particular standouts: Bodhisattva, My Old School, Black Cow, a zillion others I can't remember right now. > IMHO, what relevance does this have here? 1) someone asked about it. 2) it's > nice to try to describe something in words that can't possibly be expressed > in words. 3) I think music devoid of human qualities is worth only the > monetary value someone would pay for it. Weirdly enough, I think a number of tracks on _Pretty Hate Machine_ (Nine Inch Nails) swing very well indeed, despite quantization to the max. ("Ringfinger" and "Down In It" particularly so. Or maybe those just "cook" or "burn" = two more terms lifted from jazz to describe an essentially indescribable set of interactions between musicians which results in a tremendously increased foward drive in the music.) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:18:51 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Bach and Swing In-Reply-To: <199503280226.VAA85531@atlanta.american.edu> > > > >IOW, if you can't recognize it, find a bunch of people who _can_, hang out > >with them, listen to jazz (n.b. not the only music that swings -- Bach can > >swing, too), and *experience* the music together. It's not exactly a > >transcendental, transformational, LCD-induced thing you go through, but > >you'll get it over time. > > > > I don't doubt your assertion about Bach, but I would like for you to point > out specific examples of compositions by him that "swing," in the manner in > which most people commonly associate with that word. I don't really think Bach's music really swings in the same manner one usually associates with swing in jazz. There is some analagous kind of rhythmic drive though, which, provided you pronounce the word with heavy quotation marks around it, may be described as ""swing"". All the classical music I admire has this rhythmic drive, and it's a shame no one has come up with a proper name for it. I've paraphrased Duke Ellington's maxim for application to classical music: "It just ain't alive without rhythmic drive". That's the best I could do. Whatever you call it, Bach has it, Stravinsky has it, Haydn has it. That's why these guys are at the top of my list. Stockhausen definitely does not have it. Webern doesn't have it, Ligeti doesn't have it. I have little patience with them. Glass' rhythm is a little too rigid to be thought of as "swinging". "Fearful Symmetries" by John Adams could be said to ""swing"". One of the reasons I brought up swing is that it's the one quality of jazz that I appreciate the most, and which I most strongly desire to steal and stick in my own classically-oriented pieces. Getting back to Bach, it might be worth mentioning that they had something in his day called "notes inegales" in which, under certain circumstances, notes written as straight eighths were tripletized and played long-short long-short. Perhaps if you could go back and record musicians from 1730 you'd find them "swinging" the performance in other ways as well. They didn't have syncopations like jazz does though. Then, of course, there are those recordings by the Swingle Singers... Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:40:09 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: CROSSWIRED SUBOTNIK From: JOEL STERN Subject: CROSSWIRED SUBOTNIK Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Why doesn't anyone talk about music / why does everyone talk about hardware...? Hmmm...how about this: why doesn't anyone talk about how hardware influences music? Actually, we talk about that all the time. Well anyway, this is my current concern along those lines. Ninety percent of electronic sound production gear is made with the more-or-less pop music market in mind. This doubtlessly affects what kind of music is produced with it. Take me for example. I have my feet planted about equally in the western classical and western non-/ non-western classical music worlds. (Makes you wonder how many feet I have.) YET...in spite of myself it seems that what I produce with my synths bends more towards the western non-classical, i.e., somewhat rhythmic and tonal (modal), with at least ocassional recognizable jazz, rock, techno, etc. influences. Ideally, what I would be writing would be compositions that use combinations of sonic images, familiar and non-familiar, to manipulate the listener's aesthetic experience. Reference to existing styles would only serve to conjure an image and not be self-perpetuating. I think I'm beginning to achieve this to a certain extent. But there's always the temptation to fly in a little TR707 or jazz trap-set rhythmn or use the reasonably good piano preset that most synths have these days. I guess the problem is partially the fault of the hardware, but also the fault of the usual context that we hear electronic instruments in (dangling preposition). When someone mentioned Morton Subotnik using DX type things to produce what I assume is not pop music I became curious to find out who else is using consumer electronic gear: Korgs, Rolands, Yamahas, etc. to produce electronic music that falls more into the "art" category and less into the dance/entertainment category. Some ambient-techno approaches this for me: Future Sound of London being a notable current example. But not quite. As much as I enjoy this kind of thing I think it has a very direct connection to the current state of pop music culture. It is on the fringe and as such is part of it. Carl Stone, sort of. Wendy Walter Carlos, not really. Krzysztof Penderecki, getting there :) I'd be grateful to be pointed in the direction of composers who write inspired sound compositions and who also manage to manipulate sonic composition more than they allow themselves to be manipulated by a prevailing style, AND who use the electronic means available to most of us to do it. (Caw, did I write that?) Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:15:19 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hall, Troy" Subject: Re: Swing >> >>IOW, if you can't recognize it, find a bunch of people who _can_, hang = out >>with them, listen to jazz (n.b. not the only music that swings -- Bach = can >>swing, too), and *experience* the music together. It's not exactly a >>transcendental, transformational, LCD-induced thing you go through, but >>you'll get it over time. >> >I don't doubt your assertion about Bach, but I would like for you to = point >out specific examples of compositions by him that "swing," in the manner = in >which most people commonly associate with that word. >>-Troy Hall >Eugene Swing doesn't exists in the written notes! It's not measurable. Words = probably cannot describe what it is. You want "Specific compositions"?!? = Please. That request is not applicable. Perhaps specific recordings may be = more appropriate, but if you can't tell when something's swingin', you = just can't tell. I'm not sure what it is that is "the manner in which most people commonly = associate with" the word "swing", but the people that *first* coined the = term in the context associated with this discussion -- that is, jazz = musicians and the inheritors of the jazz tradition and legacy -- were in = no way referring to anything more than the collective impression they got = of certain performances of certain pieces of music. If you define musical = swing in any other way, the etymology is flawed, reflecting the flawed impr= ession of someone who didn't really understand or feel what swing is. When you play in front of the beat, is everything else in time, or are you = on the beat and is everyone else behind it? Can you explain how a good = listener or musician can tell who's playing off the beat and in which = direction? What if there is no metronomic beat? This is not = Einstein/relativity: there is no real frame of reference (other than = personal experience) in human performed music against which to judge time = manipulation. It is an expressive, emotive agent for the musician, and as = such is not notatable. Swing is in the performance of music. Listen. Listen a lot. Listen = *actively*. -Troy Hall P.S. Start breaking away from Western musical thought -- it's myopic, = ethnocentric and warps your whole view of the nature of sound and how it = relates to people. For starters, study Southern Indian classical music. It = is even worthwhile on purely an intellectual level, if that's your thing. = Then, go to a _performance_ of an accomplished player. Watch the hands of = the audience. Watch their faces. To most of us Westerners, the audience = will be overjoyed or even laughing at moments which seem inexplicable in = terms of the Western experience of music. This is a learning experience. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:20:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: E-music on the net home page Comments: To: esger@REKS.UIA.AC.BE check out http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/webmaster/harmony.html and http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/music/index.html Dear fellow netters and E-music lovers, I'm trying to put up a homepage on Electronic music. I've found a few nice resources so far but I need more. Since I don't have a lot of time to roam the net in search of them I'm writing this letter. If you know about information on the net concerning electronic music, please E-mail me the URL of that info. I will incorporate it ASAP into the "E-music on the Net" home page. People who want to check out the page can point their browser at: http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger/emusic/emusic.html All information and comments are of course warmly welcomed and I'll try to mention the contributors on the page somewhere. People who want to donate audioclips to the page (mostly welcomed are clips from artists who I don't own CD's of) are encouraged to do so, the only twitch is that I have only limited (8meg) diskspace. Links to audioclips would be better. Thanks a lot (at least for reading this :-) Geert Raes Esger@reks.uia.ac.be ciao, --------------------------------------------------------------------------- SGR aka Geert Raes esger@uia.ua.ac.be http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-music on the Net : http://www.uia.ua.ac.be/u/esger/emusic/emusic.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------- People talking about the environment ought to read "The Sheep Look Up" by John Brunner, then they'll know what polution is. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from atlanta.american.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id CAA09991 sendmail 8.6. >Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.e >Received: from LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU by LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP >Received: from reks.uia.ac.be (reks.uia.ac.be [143.169.4.52]) by atlan >Received: by reks.uia.ac.be (8.6.10/Ultrix4.2-C) id LAA26075; Tue, 28 Mar 1995 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Message-ID: >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0200 >Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List >Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List >From: * ESGER * >Subject: E-music on the net home page >Comments: To: Tadream Mailing List >Comments: cc: space-music-digest@cs.uwp.edu, kraftwerk-digest@cs.uwp.edu >To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Threlkeld Subject: Re: Freelance Writer Needs Comments Thanks for your comments. I may have a couple more questions to ask in a few days. I hope you don't mind if I email that to you directly. Should be short-thanks again for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:54:41 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: CROSSWIRED SUBOTNIK Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Joel Stern said: > Why doesn't anyone talk about music / why does everyone talk > about hardware...? Hmmm...how about this: why doesn't anyone talk > about how hardware influences music? Actually, we talk about that > all the time. I LOVE this list! One reason I recently purchased a Korg Wavestation SR module is the effect that wavesequencing has on me. Wavesequences can COOK to my Western way of thinking. On the other hand, they can also provide timbral interest. Add in a little vector synthesis and POW!! New tools for me to explore. Now all I need is more time... Bill "Give me Emusic or give me death" Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- "It just ain't alive without rhythmic drive." - Mark Simon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:18:04 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Threlkeld Subject: Re: Freelance Writer Needs Comments Thanks for your comments. I actually may have a few more questions (should be short) for you and will email those directly if so, I hope you don't mind. Thanks again for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:15:03 -0800 Reply-To: bc492@scn.org Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: SCN User Subject: MAC FOR MIDI Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Dearest Fellow Subscribers, At long last, I'm settling into an environment where I can set up a startup MIDI studio! Please, oh Knowledgeable Ones of The List, *which* of the Mac systems would you advise I purchase? Please keep in mind that, while I wish to keep initial costs down, I'd like a machine that I can upgrade to BEEFY, that is to say, one that is upgradeable to do digital audio (I seem to recall seeing a lot of mention of the 660AV, here) and, perhaps, some o' dat fancy video stuff. (I believe I sent out an inquiry on this subject not long ago but was disappointed by a lack of response. Please, give a fella a hand, would ya?) Another approach comes to mind: in light of the increased evolution of the Mac and decrease of prices, might it not be more cost-effective to start out with a "throwaway" machine, for starters, and get into one of the next-generation Macs (or Mac clones) in a few months from now? PLEASE!!! Comments, guidance? Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- Snail mail: 715 2nd Ave. North, Seattle, WA 98109 Email: bc492@scn.org Voice mail: (206)233-7986 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 19:12:59 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: dat's...(Ascent into Phil-) Joe McMahon wrote: > I'm not sure I'm following you, Paul. You mean our descent (or > maybe ascent) > into philosophy? Happens once in a while. Just ignore us. :) Actually, I was semi-kidding. These philosophical expressions are interesting ( pause ) to a point. " To each his own " That's what makes life so interesting. Keep em comin! PT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 19:27:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul Taylor Subject: Re: Roland U-110 -- HELP!!!!!... I have an M1 and a U-220. I'm not familiar with the U-110 but assume there are a number of similarities. If you'd like, I can give it a shot. EMail me at: PTaylor62@Aol.Com. Re: the Patch Changes, if you just want the Roland device to change patches as you switch M1 patches, the global channels have to be set to match. Remember, the Korg programs start at 0 and the Roland starts at 1, so program your patches accordingly. PT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 19:46:09 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: E-music on the net home page In-Reply-To: from "Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU" at Mar 28, 95 11:20:00 am > check out > http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/webmaster/harmony.html > and > http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/music/index.html > Dear fellow netters and E-music lovers, > > I'm trying to put up a homepage on Electronic music. I've so modest a statement... looks like quite a bit more than just another homepage to me! :-) > found a few nice resources so far but I need more. > Since I don't have a lot of time to roam the net in search > of them I'm writing this letter. > > If you know about information on the net concerning electronic music, > please E-mail me the URL of that info. I will incorporate it > ASAP into the "E-music on the Net" home page. People who > want to check out the page can point their browser at: Well you're welcome to rip off my links; see my url in my .sig and when you get there click "music". My music page isn't very well organized but you can see a few places I've been. -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * mad science * electronics * sci fi * fusion * Interpedia * Khoros * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 21:44:57 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Swing In-Reply-To: ; from "Hall, Troy" at Mar 27, 95 2:03 pm These are the graceful words of Hall, Troy: ->The word "swing" is an adjective that describes NOT the modified relative ->time-position of notes on certain beats, but rather a quality of the music ->that invokes a collective response among certain people that have come to ->associate the word "swing" with the quality that evokes such a response. A ->circular definition, hmmm. A car is a word car people use to describe cars... ->IOW, if you can't recognize it, find a bunch of people who _can_, hang out ->with them, listen to jazz (n.b. not the only music that swings -- Bach can ->swing, too), and *experience* the music together. It's not exactly a ->transcendental, transformational, LCD-induced thing you go through, but ->you'll get it over time. ->Swing isn't eighth-note triplets. It's not dotted-eight/sixteenth pairs. ->Latin music (straight-eighths) can swing hard. "Free" jazz can swing hard. ->Forget all the attempts at defining swing in terms of concepts and notations ->that stem from the Viennese tradition. That will be as successful as trying ->to notate Indian Classical music. ( -- I would bet most gentle readers of ->this list have absolutely no idea of how complex a music Indian music is. Its ->phenomenally difficult for Westerners to comprehend beyond the theoretical ->concepts of raga and tala.) ->Since swing is a "human" quality, music that swings is possible ONLY through ->real people playing it. You can't quantify it. Think of an orchestra. Think ->of your favorite orchestral composition. It may not swing, but what would it ->be without a conductor and musicians breathing life into it. No less a current authority than Wynton Marsalis would disagree with you. In his words, all music has a "groove." The grove is present whether you are playing Bach or Ellington. The groove is the rhythmic and dynamic characteristic which carries the piece emotionally and spiritually. In jazz, Marsalis says, that "groove" is called "swing." In swing, the 2nd and 4th beats are accented, usually by the drummer's hihat. Earlier western music generally stressed the rhythmic importance of the 1st and 3rd beats. Also, for the sake of adding e-music back into the equation, the synth is an instrument. Like any instrument, it has advantages and limitations. A good musician learns to exploit the characteristics of his instrument, whether it be trombone or M1. The trumpet's limitations do not prevent it from being able to "swing." Neither do the synth's. After all, both are at first start controlled by humans in some way. And, to finish up, Marsalis also says that the only "progressive" development in jazz for many years has been the introduction of synthesizers. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:08:44 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: in shadows of retribution Subject: What is a cheap MIDI keyboard? In-Reply-To: <950328171049_64053527@aol.com> ok, I'm wondering what are some of the cheapest (dollar wise) keyboards that i can use to connect to my soundcard for the purpose of "recording" notes into MIDI files? Is there a place on the web that i can read over synth module reviews. I know about the keyboard magazine URL and the Kurzweil but neither are what i'm looking for. thanks much in advance ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ eric allen seale of "in shadows of retribution magazine" sealee@eniac.ac.siue.edu or isorzine@aol.com revel the lethe of this coil! vox (618) 692-5534 branch box 1566 / edwardsville, il / 62026 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:47:05 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Hurley Subject: Emusic on the net Check out: and -- Jim Hurley email: hurleyj@arachnaut.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:30:47 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: M1 sticky keys Comments: To: Electronic Music Discussion List In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:05:22 +0000 from On Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:05:22 +0000 Paul Bunn said: >On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Mark G Simon wrote: > >> > > `AMMORTISIZE' is a great word. >> > > What does it mean?. >> >> Jacek, I believe the writer of this last sentence was refering to >> himself, not to you. So relax, no criticism of you was intended. >> Mark Simon >> mgs2@cornell.edu >> > Sorry,didn`t mean to offend you Jacek.I`d never actually heard of >the word and was seriously requesting a definition.I`ll try to word my >mail a little better in future. > >P.Bunn-id2h1644@lmu.ac.uk No problem :) Sorry, maybe I just felt like I'm out in the middle of nowhere and beeing blamed for my language mistakes. On the other hand I'll be more careful next time not to mess up spelling. Jacek L. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:33:15 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: Freelance Writer Needs Comments Comments: To: Electronic Music Discussion List In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 27 Mar 1995 16:02:37 -0500 from On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 16:02:37 -0500 said: >I've bought several things via the mail and had no complaints until my >Syquest drive became defective. The hassle of returning it to the mail order >company wasn't worth the few dollars I saved. In fact after I spent $35.00 >shipping it, and my downtime (a little more than a week), it cost me more >than buying it at a store where I could have walked in and traded it for a >good one on the spot. I'll never make the mistake of buying any important >gear through the mail again. > >Ron >rong225zt@aol.com Hi Ron, to cheer You up, the company I work in selled an Syquest drive to other company. It was returned 3 times, because it burned twice with no reason, and once something broke that You couldn't eject the cartridge. Also our local syquest drive burned one day with no reason. You can say anything about syquest drives but You can't just say that they are safe for data storage. Every time the drive would get damaged the cartridges would go along probably because of write failures. Jacek L. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:31:11 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "john.." Subject: Wave generation programs.. Comments: To: diy music mailing list Comments: cc: emusic-l mailing list In-Reply-To: <9212.9503231224@csm.exeter.ac.uk> Hi, Does anyone know of a program (for the Atari ST) that will allow me to define waveforms/complete sounds and download them (via MIDI sample dump) to my sampler. I've been looking at an old magazine (1992) which has a review of a program called Virtual Wave which does this and I wondered if there was any similar program available in the Public Domain. A major plus point for the VW program is that it synthesises as it dumps, ie it doesn't generate the sample in memory first (as Avalon does). I've used Avalon and, with my limited Atari memory, I can only generate extremely short sounds. Here's hoping! john.. |\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/| | mail: jat5@unix.york.ac.uk || | jat@ohm.york.ac.uk || | web: http://www.york.ac.uk/~jat5/ || |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:47:40 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: CROSSWIRED SUBOTNICK In-Reply-To: <199503290600.BAA57005@atlanta.american.edu> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 26 X-Sun-Content-Length: 1757 Joel, I may be able to address your post from a couple of points of view, the musician's and the manufacturer's. As a musician, my own interests are very much in the 20th century classical (Oxymoron #1) although the pop and jazz I played in younger days MUST influence my palette in some way. Pop just doesn't interest me much (there are exceptions: Take 6 for example, or the Frank Sinatra recordings on Capital). I find absolutely nothing of interest in new-age/industro/grunge, etc (it sounds more similar than it does different to my ears). When I fire up one of my synths, I dial quickly past the drums and basses and move on to sounds that I either built or found. I'm always a little ticked off that all of that stuff is there at the expense of more musically interesting sounds ('scuse me while I don the asbestos). At the same time, this is the world as it is, and I have to be on the lookout for things I can use. From the manufacturer's point of view, I have to look at places where we can make some money. While I personally have no reason to put a snare drum through 12 variants of a gated reverb, there seems to be more market for that than for some other sounds that might appeal to me more. That is true in spades for synthesizer manufacturers. A marketing project manager for one of the major synth companies lamented to me that they had to put in so many hip-hop sounds at the expense of more strings and winds. You gotta sell what people are going to buy. Things may get better. I know a lot of classically-trained people who have been taking the plunge in recent years. As this market grows, there should be increasing demands for sounds with musical subtlety. Sadly, the only vote that counts is the dollar vote. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: Re: Swing In-Reply-To: <199503290600.BAA57005@atlanta.american.edu> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 5 X-Sun-Content-Length: 379 Just a correction. The fact that some of us are deeply steeped in that old white-guy western classical music doesn't immunize us to "swing". I personally find deep enjoyment in some jazz (big-band more than small) as well as Balinese and Northern Indian music. There are structural elements there that are more similar to deep structure in classical music than you might think. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:18:25 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hall, Troy" Subject: Re: Swing Regarding comments I hade made about the word "swing", Pete Schoenhoff wrote: >No less a current authority than Wynton Marsalis would disagree with >you [about the meaning of swing]...Marsalis also says that the only >"progressive" development in jazz for many years has been the = introduction >of synthesizers. Fortunately, he said "no less a current authority." Ask a group of well-respected jazz musicians what they think of Wynton. The vast majority will say he (and his cohorts, with the exception of Marcus Roberts) is one of the people in jazz today that is NOT innovative, and whose dogged rehash/dress-up of the jazz past is doing a massive disservice to the public that is blinded into admiration by his Grammy awards. Isn't it a bit odd that, with the exception of the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra, Marsalis is rarely heard with musicians outside his "posse"? Ask Harold Mabern, Rufus Reid, Josh Redman -- whose playing (along with the superior Eric Alexander) far surpassed that of any of Marsalis' bandmates at the 1993 Thelonious Monk International Jazz Tenor Sax Competition. Ask Courtney Pine, Jim McNeely, Geoff Keezer, George Coleman. They'll say (and I have _personally_ heard many of them tell me) that while they respect Marsalis as a technician, composer and educator, as a player they feel his music is flat and lifeless and lacks the innovation. I am not alone in believing that Wynton is no "current authority." Adding electronic music "back into the equation," I agree that the introduction of electronic instruments into jazz has added to that music. All too many times, though, the synthesizer has been relegated to the status of a piano that doesn't sound like a piano, unless of course it sounds like an electric piano (vis. Kenny Kirkland - he's great, but not exactly charting new territory for the synth in jazz). That is, synthesizers are rarely used, as most of the readers of this list including myself would prefer, as an instrument that offers the possibility of timbral improvisation along with the more traditional melodic and harmonic improvisation. If only more manufacturers would start including more knobs and sliders on their gear... I invite all to listen to John Zorn, esp. Naked City. Absolutely brilliant. The Naked City recordings are generally short collage type pieces, played live with real and synthesized instruments, that feature huge stylistic jumps performed with such timing accuracy that you might not believe it humanly possible. From hardcore punk/metal to country in a blink of an eye. You'd swear it was sampled if you couldn't see it yourself (and sometimes you can). -Troy Hall ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: CROSSWIRED SUBOTNICK In-Reply-To: from "Michael Carnes" at Mar 29, 95 08:47:40 am Your point is well taken - most popular keyboards nowadays are designed to provide a popular music group in a box. That said, there are strange and marvelous things one can do with such noises. I've got a piece I've been working on for the past month or so which uses drastic transposition of some of the waveforms on the VFXsd to produce sounds that are 2 to 3 minutes in length. Needless to say, composition with these goes slowly because one has to hit a note, listen to the interactions, and then decide if it should come earlier or later than material already playing. I'm up to about 10 minutes of seriously dangerous music. I *like* it. :) I strongly encourage anyone who has "just a sample player" to explore the far reaches of transposition (aliasing noise/bizarre artifacts) to find alarming and fascinating noises. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:25:27 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Sample Extremes Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Our Fearless Leader, Joe, said: > I strongly encourage anyone who has "just a sample player" to explore the > far reaches of transposition (aliasing noise/bizarre artifacts) to find > alarming and fascinating noises. I imagine that some high pass filtering might, in some downshifting cases, be required to "unmuddy" the sound. When you upshift, can you get anything more interesting than generic squeeks? I'd love to hear the details of your experimentation in this area. Bill "Give me Emusic or give me death" Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:41:13 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: MUSIC...WORDS...MUSIC...WORDS From: JOEL STERN Subject: MUSIC...WORDS...MUSIC...WORDS Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu >"Music is a language too precise for words." What the hell does that mean? Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 20:51:48 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: crosswired >I disagree, Mr Mendelssohn (or however it's spelled). Music is not precise >enough. It does not and can not encode meaning in the same way as words. I quite agree. I didn't actually believe the original quote, but thought it was worth throwing into the ring. I think words and music have roughly equivalent, but very different, precision. If you think music is difficult to describe in words, you should try describing dance... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "The first sound to send a whole room to sleep..." "No, I think Yanni did it first." -- The New Adventures of Superman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:56:17 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ted Johnson Subject: Re: What is a cheap MIDI keyboard? >ok, I'm wondering what are some of the cheapest (dollar wise) keyboards >that i can use to connect to my soundcard for the purpose of "recording" >notes into MIDI files? If all you want to do is record for playback by your soundcard, any keyboard at all with MIDI out will work... The cheapest you could do is to buy a 10 year old casio or something for $20... Any old keyboard can send MIDI info to your computer. You might want to think about any special features you're looking for like full-size keys, how many keys, if they're velocity sensative, if there's a pitch bending option.. If you want a keyboard that is weighted like a piano forget about it being cheap. --=[ M a c B r u i n ]=-- MacBruin@ucla.com * aka Ted Johnson * Los Angeles, CA Graphic Design * Interactive Multimedia * Video Production * Music Composition check out my WWW home page: http://128.97.152.199/ted/home.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Sample Extremes In-Reply-To: <9503291625.AA26383@dspsun> from "william.b.fox" at Mar 29, 95 11:25:27 am > I imagine that some high pass filtering might, in some downshifting > cases, be required to "unmuddy" the sound. You might be *vastly* surprised. The stuff I'm using on the VFXsd right now which has been most productive is the "ALL-WAVES" wave, which simply consists of running through the sample ROM from start to finish. Many of the samples turn into interesting rhythmic things; the very high harmonics end up in the midrange (I'm using a 4-octave down transpose), so there's really quite little in terms of mud. At those transpositions, notes close to one another cause interesting rhythmic cross-relations and phase effects. I've opened the filters all the way so as to get all of the interesting little glitches as well. (Overtransposition downward will give you just a quiet little sine tone on the VFXsd - my guess is that this is the sampling frequency being shifted down into the audible region!) Different regions in "ALL-WAVES" have yielded many strange transient timbres at these extreme transpositions - I've heard choirs singing a single note and then diving back into chaos, underwater bells, lots of good stuff. Also, given the fact that even a small pitchbend at these extremes will cause a major change in the timbre, you have a fascinating area to play around in. Add effects and you've got huge shifting seas of sounds that last for minutes and continuously evolve throughout. > When you upshift, can you > get anything more interesting than generic squeeks? I'd love to hear > the details of your experimentation in this area. > Depends heavily on the original wave. Stuff with a lot of harmonics all over the spectrum will retain part of their tonal character, with the rest of the frequencies "wrapping arround" due to aliasing. Bizarre heterodyning effects are possible, and sound very analog; one track on _Ballistic_ uses this effect to simulate a radio tuner being changed. The base wave was a chime, I believe; the odd harmonic relations cause the aliasing frequencies to change in odd, unrelated ways which cause great interference effects. Stuff that does not loop, such as piano or drums, tends to be boring little chirps. Pitch-bend is a good tool here as well; this causes the aliased frequencies to shift areound in strange ways. Transposing up tends, generally speaking, to be less successful at generating memorable noises - I've experimented much more with transposing down. Up tends to compress all of the evolution out of a sample, while down accentuates it. Folks with samplers may want to take a second look at some of those long samples in their library and see what transposition can do for them. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: swinging Comments: To: emusic-list I have enjoyed the many definitions of "swing" which have appeared on the list. And other synonyms. For some good hard-swinging music, check out "Burning for Buddy" -- produced by Neil Peart, featuring a number of excellent drummers. Regarding Felix's quote on words about music, yes, often words do not do the music justice. But I think that most would agree that an account at least once removed *from* the music is acknowledged as a different type of discourse. It seems to me that the activity of making connections between one's own experience of music and another's, through words, might unfold new meanings for both. In Mendelsohn's time, I don't believe there was too extensive a distribution of recordings. If your audience is circumscribed within a 500 mile radius, then you can be pretty sure that the idea of "sadness" you want to express will be perceived "accurately." I don't know, I sense the sublime coming through. Perhaps M. was responding to cats like Hanslick? Best, Scott McCoy mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:49:06 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: crosswired In-Reply-To: from "Hall, Troy" at Mar 27, 95 09:49:44 am Hall, Troy writes-- > >...a thousand pardons for asking if there is much discussion on music here. >Apparently there are at least many *thoughts* about it, some intelligent, >well thought-out, enlightening, others pious, pompous, boorish, >self-righteous and particularly borrowed. What is the Latin term for argument >by assaulting the counterparty to a disagreement? Um, "USENET"? >Is everything pointless but personal experience? Cannot the sharing of >thoughts be meaningful? Do digital synths suck because there's only a finite >number of values the sound related parameters can have? Maybe! Definitely! No! OK! OK! CANCEL! >It seems that finding value in technology alone rejects the value of context >and relative meaning. But the technology becomes the context. My wife loves, absolutely loves, the art and engineering of the Machine Age (Art Deco architecture, vast black metal trains on poster, etc), for its very preoccupation with the technology that made it possible, as an end in itself. Whatever we are interested in will build our intellectual sandbox for us, be it machinery, religion, nuclear physics, or a big-ass pile of donuts. I'm not being flip here; why must technology by definition be anti-contextual? mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Cappellini discusses Team Metlay's _Bandwidth_ with Mike Metlay: TC: BTW, what was it that sounded like a swarm of flies or bees on "The Hinge of Fate" ? M^2: At the very end of the song, you mean? TC: Yes. M^2: That was a TR-707 crash cymbal sampled into a Korg SDD-2000 sampling DDL and played back at greatly lowered pitch, then fed through a Lexicon LXP-5 on regenerative upward pitch shift. TC: That would have been my next guess :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:05:32 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Sample Extremes In-Reply-To: <199503292057.PAA05502@clark.net> from "Joe McMahon" at Mar 29, 95 03:57:03 pm Joe McMahon writes-- > >Different regions in "ALL-WAVES" have yielded many strange transient timbres >at these extreme transpositions - I've heard choirs singing a single note >and then diving back into chaos, underwater bells, lots of good stuff. >Also, given the fact that even a small pitchbend at these extremes will >cause a major change in the timbre, you have a fascinating area to play >around in. Add effects and you've got huge shifting seas of sounds that >last for minutes and continuously evolve throughout. It's also a cheap way to get new mileage out of those tired old sample ROMs instead of blowing a chunk on another box. :) >> When you upshift, can you >> get anything more interesting than generic squeeks? I'd love to hear >> the details of your experimentation in this area. >> >Depends heavily on the original wave. Stuff with a lot of harmonics all over >the spectrum will retain part of their tonal character, with the rest of the >frequencies "wrapping arround" due to aliasing. Bizarre heterodyning effects >are possible, and sound very analog; one track on _Ballistic_ uses this effect >to simulate a radio tuner being changed. The base wave was a chime, I believe; >the odd harmonic relations cause the aliasing frequencies to change in odd, >unrelated ways which cause great interference effects. Stuff that does not >loop, such as piano or drums, tends to be boring little chirps. Pitch-bend >is a good tool here as well; this causes the aliased frequencies to shift >areound in strange ways. Roland boxes can be very effective when used like this. Because they are under-engineered in this regard, they break in many amusing ways. >Transposing up tends, generally speaking, to be less successful at generating >memorable noises - I've experimented much more with transposing down. Up tends >to compress all of the evolution out of a sample, while down accentuates it. >Folks with samplers may want to take a second look at some of those long >samples in their library and see what transposition can do for them. I disagree. My sound library is littered with all sorts of groovy noises from aliasing all to heck. I think it's a matter of taste.... mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Cappellini discusses Team Metlay's _Bandwidth_ with Mike Metlay: TC: BTW, what was it that sounded like a swarm of flies or bees on "The Hinge of Fate" ? M^2: At the very end of the song, you mean? TC: Yes. M^2: That was a TR-707 crash cymbal sampled into a Korg SDD-2000 sampling DDL and played back at greatly lowered pitch, then fed through a Lexicon LXP-5 on regenerative upward pitch shift. TC: That would have been my next guess :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 19:12:13 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Swing In-Reply-To: ; from "Hall, Troy" at Mar 29, 95 9:18 am These are the graceful words of Hall, Troy: ->Regarding comments I hade made about the word "swing", ->Pete Schoenhoff wrote: ->>No less a current authority than Wynton Marsalis would disagree with ->>you [about the meaning of swing]...Marsalis also says that the only ->>"progressive" development in jazz for many years has been the ->>introduction of synthesizers. ->Fortunately, he said "no less a current authority." Ask a group of ->well-respected jazz musicians what they think of Wynton. The vast majority ->will say he (and his cohorts, with the exception of Marcus Roberts) is one ->of the people in jazz today that is NOT innovative, and whose dogged ->rehash/dress-up of the jazz past is doing a massive disservice to the ->public that is blinded into admiration by his Grammy awards.... ->Ask Courtney Pine, Jim McNeely, Geoff Keezer, George Coleman. ->They'll say (and I have _personally_ heard many of them tell me) that ->while they respect Marsalis as a technician, composer and educator, as a ->player they feel his music is flat and lifeless and lacks the innovation. Note that I did not call Marsalis an inovator. Marsalis even does not call himself an inovator. But if all these "respect him as...an educator," then he must have some degree of authority to assess the history and development of jazz. A "rehash of the jazz past" is a negative way of saying that his focus and interests are in studying the way jazz has moved so far. Not everyone has to attempt to break new ground, and most of the people who try are forgotten, because new does not mean good. Anyway, with his focus on the past, and with the respect of his peers as an educator, I do think he is qualified to define jazz terms. -Pete Schoenhoff pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:21:01 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _Ballistic_ In-Reply-To: <0098DF05CCC4CDA0.000043D1@ems.com> from "ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM" at Mar 26, 95 01:27:26 pm It appears that I have to speak in my own defense...;) ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM (Darwin "They stuck me with a convertible. Awww" Grosse) writes-- > > thereby keeping an important promise to myself - no week goes by without >an important musical experience. This is a good rule of thumb. I should probably do something similar. >One of my sub-trips (thanks to flexible air tickets, no mileage limit on the >rental car, and the balls to do it) was a five-hour trip to the Metlay's, >home of the infamous Team. As part of the visit, I got to hear the test >master of _Ballistic_, Team Metlay's upcoming release. Well, the Team only lives here once every two years, and 'here' will change sooner than that. :) >Just what the doctor ordered after a horrible work week (except for the car >ride - did that thing even _have_ headlights?). YES, it had headlights, Mr. Picky! Stop making fun of my car. Geez, you're as bad as Rothwell grabbing the dashboard and groaning, "Whoa! Book'em Danno." > At this point, Mike >could contain himself no longer, and slapped the CD's into his player. Reads like something out of a copy of Penthouse Forum....:) >Before discussing the music, I should note the surroundings: I faced the >stereo - either sitting on a cushion chair or on the floor. Mike was to >my right; either virtually conducting the songs, or acting as my djinni tour >guide through the music. It was literally like having "Living Liner Notes", >with the (justifiably) proud Mike imparting experiences and anecdotes in sync >with the music or sounds that resulted. Very unique and enjoyable. We are working on a way to package the experience, but since it involves cloning me, the US Government has banned it for now. You will all have to be content with the enormous technical post that will be forthcoming as soon as I can finish it. It'll have a "track by track" listing of what went into each song. I'm not going to quote the rest of what Darwin said, I'd just like to thank him for taking five hours drivetime to come visit me and my wife. We get very lonely down here, so far from our friends, and we welcome visitors (at least until the baby comes ;). Thanks muchly. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Cappellini discusses Team Metlay's _Bandwidth_ with Mike Metlay: TC: BTW, what was it that sounded like a swarm of flies or bees on "The Hinge of Fate" ? M^2: At the very end of the song, you mean? TC: Yes. M^2: That was a TR-707 crash cymbal sampled into a Korg SDD-2000 sampling DDL and played back at greatly lowered pitch, then fed through a Lexicon LXP-5 on regenerative upward pitch shift. TC: That would have been my next guess :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:29:34 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _Ballistic_ In-Reply-To: <9503271842.AA18856@dspsun> from "william.b.fox" at Mar 27, 95 01:42:05 pm william.b.fox writes-- > >When I visited Mike back in Pittsburgh, I received the same treatment. >A very enjoyable experience I wish all could receive. (I'm not >volunteering Mike's time.) Good. I'd hate to have to harm you severely. :) Seriously, though, my wife and I have always enjoyed visitors, but with the arrival of our first child that's going to become a bit awkward for a while. Arne, this may be your last chance! ;) > Back then, "Bandwidth" was not yet >released. I also heard some of Team part deux (Saturnalia?). As soon >as "Bandwidth" was available, I sent in my check. On the strength of >"Bandwidth" I just sent Mike a check for the rest of the Atomic City >catalog. Mike, if you announced the availability of these other CDs >on synth-l, please know that I'm not currently listening in over there. >Please put my email address into your distribution list for such >announcements. Everything is on sale now, except _Ballistic_, for which we're taking orders and which should be back from the pressing plant by Easter or so. >> intelligent conversation with Suzanne and Mike, > >Two PhDs, what do you expect? :-) Actually, I found them both to be >quite dear. And they have good taste in Chinese food, too! Hmm? Oh, that dump we took you to in Pittsburgh? Pfeh. You should try the place we just discovered here in Tallahassee, of all places! :) >Mike's car and driving have been discussed on previous occaisions. Is >this another? Would you people please leave my poor car ALONE? (My poor driving you can pick on if you must. It's always fun to watch the facial expressions that go with, "I don't think you're gonna make it, M--AIEEEE!!") >I still look forward to someday returning the hospitality. We'll just let Micro bang on the Polysix whilst we chat. No problem. :) Greetings from Hell, mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Cappellini discusses Team Metlay's _Bandwidth_ with Mike Metlay: TC: BTW, what was it that sounded like a swarm of flies or bees on "The Hinge of Fate" ? M^2: At the very end of the song, you mean? TC: Yes. M^2: That was a TR-707 crash cymbal sampled into a Korg SDD-2000 sampling DDL and played back at greatly lowered pitch, then fed through a Lexicon LXP-5 on regenerative upward pitch shift. TC: That would have been my next guess :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:04:24 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Randy Budnikas Organization: Biola University Subject: Middle C Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu I admit it. The doctoral thesis on middle C was a hoax. Some of you thought it was very funny, while others took it seriously. I'm sorry. I think from now on, I need to use the faithful smileys after such a post. :-) Regards, Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stephen P. Lee" Subject: Re: midi to soundcard diagram Hello, It's good to see someone mention the software package from "MidiSoft".(no relation) I finally got a midi cable!( Included with the software.) It's my first experience with Midi. I think it's pretty good for the money. $50. What you play on the keyboard is transfered to sheet music automatically. You can record seperate tracks and then play them all back together at once. Songs can be saved as .mid files. I also like a program called Sonic. Anyone ever heard of it? Cya, Info1One ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stephen P. Lee" Subject: Re: mac-rec-edit-soft Hello, Anyone see this month's Blaster magazine article on the resurgence in popularity of Analog synths? Cya, Info1One ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:06:54 +1000 Reply-To: mdagn@ion.apana.org.au Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Dagn Organization: Droid Private Site, Sydney, Australia Subject: more Web Pages... (was Re: Emusic WWW home page) In-Reply-To: <9502307965.AA796589852@pub.health.su.oz.au> marki@pub.health.su.oz.au (Mark Ireland) writes: > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:51:34 +0200 > From: * ESGER * > Subject: E-music on the net home page > If you know about information on the net concerning electronic music, > please E-mail me the URL of that info. I will incorporate it OK... try these two... Sydney Rave, Party And Club Info Pages (with lots of links to various music pages wordwide) http://ion.apana.org.au/~mdagn/sydney.html The Clan Analogue Pages: http://sysx.apana.org.au/clan/ ---MJD. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:17:01 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Porter Subject: Re: midi to soundcard diagram >Hello, >It's good to see someone mention the software package from >"MidiSoft".(no relation) >I finally got a midi cable!( Included with the software.) >It's my first experience with Midi. I think it's pretty good for the >money. $50. >What you play on the keyboard is transfered to sheet music >automatically. You can record seperate tracks and then play them >all back together at once. Songs can be saved as .mid files. >I also like a program called Sonic. Anyone ever heard of it? > >Cya, >Info1One > You paid $50 for a MIDI cable? What, was it 200 feet long? Surely this isn't correct. ********************************************** * James Porter * * Training Analyst/Network Administrator * * LB&M Associates, Inc. * ********************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:35:11 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robert Thompson Subject: CALL FOR WORKS BY WOMEN COMPOSERS **************************************************************************** CALL FOR WORKS *** CALL FOR WORKS *** CALL FOR WORKS *** CALL FOR WORKS **************************************************************************** PLEASE POST AND DISTRIBUTE THIS INFORMATION AND PASS ALONG Electroacoustic Music By Women Composers * CONCERT JUNE 16, 1995, 8PM, Agnes Scott College, Atlanta Georgia This is a call for tape music works, electronic, computer generated, musique concrete and the like by women composers to be presented during the Summer Arts Program - Workshop in Computer and Electroacoustic Music. This concert event will include a lecture component and would be significant exposure for participating composers. Submit one or two compositions on DAT (or very high quality cassette) include with your submission the following materials: 1. recording of the work (DAT, CD or high quality cassette only please) 2. documentation of the work - program notes 3. short biography and listing of works 4. vita Please also send an SASE for return of your materials. Participating composers will be sent copies of the program as well as any news clippings and reviews that are created. This event is likely to be repeated in the Fall of 1995 at another yet to be determined university in the Atlanta area. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS: May 20, 1995 SEND TO: Electroacoustic Music by Women Composers c/o Dr. R.S.Thompson GSU School of Music P.O. Box 672902 Marietta GA. 30067-0049 Phone: 404-651-3676 FAX: 404-952-9561 EMAIL: musrst@gsusgi2.gsu.edu ******************************************************************************* PLEASE POST *** PLEASE POST *** PLEASE POST *** PLEASE POST *** PLEASE POST ******************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:50:31 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _Ballistic_ In-Reply-To: <199503300029.QAA08940@netcom23.netcom.com> from "atomic city" at Mar 29, 95 04:29:34 pm > Good. I'd hate to have to harm you severely. :) Seriously, though, my > wife and I have always enjoyed visitors, but with the arrival of our > first child that's going to become a bit awkward for a while. Arne, > this may be your last chance! ;) I know, but Pennsylvania is even less accessible than Florida was. Now if i could find a job, i might actually have money to get out of HuntsVegas, AL. Anyone want to hire an industrial engineer? :) Arne -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The usual issues of societally-induced female technophobia are always raised [in discussions about the lack of female emusicians], but I have to admit that the possibility of trapping to extinction never came up" (mike metlay) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:05:26 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Felix the cat In-Reply-To: > > Regarding Felix's quote on words about music, For those still interested, I've got the original Mendelssohn quotation. He had just written a set of pieces called "Songs Without Words" and someone wrote to him who believed there must be some hidden "meaning" to these pieces that Mendelssohn was trying to conceal by suppressing the words to his songs. He asked Mendelssohn what the meaning was. Mendelssohn replied: People usually complain that music is so ambiguous; that they are doubtful as to what they should think when they hear it, whereas everyone understands words. For me, it is just the reverse. And that is not only for whole speeches, but for single words also: they too seem to me so ambiguous, so indefinite, so open to misunderstanding in comparison with real music which fills one's soul with a thousand better things than words. To me, the music I love does not express thoughts too indefinite to be put into words, but too definite... If you ask me what I though [in connection with one or another of the Songs Without Words], I must say: the song itself as it stands. If, with one or the other of them, I had a specific word or specific words in mind, I should not like to give them these titles, because words do not mean the same to one person as they mean to another; only the song says the same thing, arouses the same feeling, in one person as in another--a feeling, that, however cannot be expressed in the same words. Resignation, melancholy, praise of God, a foxhunt -- these are words which everyone interprets differently. What is resignation to one person is melancholy to another; a third thinks of both as lifeless. For a man who loves hunting, the foxhunt and praise of God might well be equivalents; he would feel that the winding of horns was really and truly the right way to praise God. To us a foxhunt is merely a foxhunt, and no matter how much we discussed the matter, we would get nowhere. The word remains ambiguous; but in music we would understand one another rightly. Today, we can't have the same confidence that Mendelssohn had that everyone will understand music the same way. There are too many different styles competing for our attention. If we understand one, we may be in a fog when we hear the other. In 19th century Leipzig everyone heard the same music, and most of it employed the same cadences and stylistic devices to express the same kinds of things. The musical syntax worked the same way in all of this music because it was all written around the same time and the same place. Modern technology has allowed us to be exposed to music from all different times and places. We'd like to understand it all, but one brain can't always hold enough cells to make sense of all the thought processes that go on behind all these musics (the fact that the language has just recently allowed the word to be spoken in plural says something about our time). I'd love to understand the music of South India, for instance, but how am I going to put myself in the frame of mind of a South Indian? Life's too short. (On the other hand I'll never turn away a plate of Indian food, but that's another matter.) So it may be that Mendelssohn's statement is no longer valid. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu (By the way, Hanslick published his treatise on the Beautiful in Music in 1854. Mendelssohn died in 1847) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:10:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ross Wright Anything Musical Subject: Re: midi to soundcard diagram Midi cables for $50.00? WOW!! You folks should contact me for better deals on your gear. I have access to everything. Ross Wright, Anything Musical ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 14:01:14 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: RE: SWING From: JOEL STERN Subject: Re: SWING Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu >Getting back to Bach, it might be worth mentioning that they had >something in his day called "notes inegales"... If you want to hear "classical" music that swings, try music of some of the earlier French Baroque composers, particularly Louis and Francois Couperin, Jean Baptiste Lully, Marin Marais, and Robert de Visee (which actually sways more than it swings). The French had a uniquely loose approach to rhythmn compared to the Germans, Italians and English of the period. They also were also devoted to the concept of music being able to alter one's state of mind and concretely effect the emotions (the "doctrine of the affections"). To hear this in action I recommend listening to this music performed by Gallic, as opposed to Germanic, performers, with the notable exception of Gustav Leonhardt's recording of L. Couperin's "Piece de Clavecin." The film "Tout Les Matins du Monde" (Gerard Depardieu, again) makes a reasonable, if romanticized, attempt to portray this phase of French music. Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:01:53 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _Ballistic_ Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu M^2 typeth: > ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM (Darwin "They stuck me with a convertible. Awww" Grosse) > writes-- > > thereby keeping an important promise to myself - no week goes by without > >an important musical experience. > > This is a good rule of thumb. I should probably do something similar. In theory, I'm sure we all would like to do this. In practice, however, even if our lives had enough time to devote to this persuit, _seeking_ an important musical experience is the most that can reasonably be achieved on a regular basis. (I'm assuming here that you're referring to an "external" experience as opposed to one you create yourself; i.e. a trip to the Metlays' abode. I suppose you could include "internal" experiences such as an intense sound design session in the privacy of your own home studio. Let me know if I miss the mark, here.) Of course, somebody in the music biz might achieve a greater success rate of an event turning out to be important (to them). Somebody like me, who is a "weekend warrior" instead of a full time musician, might have to settle for a lower success rate. C'est la vie! Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com --------------------------------- WARNING: This product warps space and time in its vicinity. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 18:44:20 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Ross Wright, Anything Musical" Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _... I am going to try to define an "Important Musical Experience". I would take a much broader view than others who have commented on this topic. I think this transends the act of creating music, and goes into deeper realms of thought. Examples of these types of experiences can be: Hearing a song you like on the radio, Playing with a bunch of total strangers at a jam session and you have a "Moment" where you can tell that the sum is greater than the parts. I work in the biz every day (selling at a retail music store in North Hollywood, CA) and I can get uplifted by hooking someone up with the right gear. You do not have to settle for less you just have to be open to more subtle ways of experience. Ross Wright, Anything Musical ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:37:41 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: ddg@DEVLAC.EMS.COM Subject: Re: Ears on : Team Metlay's _Ballistic_ Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@american.edu .In practice, however, .even if our lives had enough time to devote to this persuit, _seeking_ an .important musical experience is the most that can reasonably be achieved .on a regular basis. (I'm assuming here that you're referring to an ."external" experience as opposed to one you create yourself; i.e. a trip .to the Metlays' abode. I suppose you could include "internal" .experiences such as an intense sound design session in the privacy of .your own home studio. Let me know if I miss the mark, here.) Of .course, somebody in the music biz might achieve a greater success rate .of an event turning out to be important (to them). Somebody like me, .who is a "weekend warrior" instead of a full time musician, might have .to settle for a lower success rate. C'est la vie! Well, I'm interested in finding _any_ musical experience; whether an epiphany during sound editing, a neatly turned set of changes or a visit with another musician. At least in my life, it sometimes takes serious effort to wedge in any serious music time - but it's a conscious decision I've made. I'm not looking for musical nirvana, I just want to make sure that I am _seeking_ any experience that can have an impact on me. Also, I question whether music pros really do have a better "hit rate". I would think that daily work with the "job" of music would interfere with the "journey" of music. I spent some time as a music biz pro - I guess - and found the grind of business destroying my ability to be creative. Ended up walking away... [ddg] .............................................................................. Darwin Grosse . (414) 628-3045(h)/359-9800(w) . ddg@devlac.ems.com .............................................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:04:58 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: ISEA Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Hello emusicers, I saw a reference to the International Symposium of Electronic Art to be held in Montreal in September, in the back of the booklet about the International Computer Music Conference in Banff in September. (Does that make sense?0 Anyway, it gave an email address. I have mailed a couple of times and received no reply. Can anyone out there supply me with a good address (one that works) or bounce details to me, please? Thanks, David Rodger, Music Dept, La Trobe University, Melbourne, Australia musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au P.S. Reply to "CrossWired" pending.... (Working on it!) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:07:03 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Resent-From: "Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk." Comments: Originally-From: MAILER-DAEMON@math.amu.edu.pl (Mail Delivery Subsystem) From: "Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk." Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Hallo, I am a new person on the EMUSIC list. I am a composer from Poland and I changed ATARI ST for IBM. Now I am looking for the cheepest music software, esspecially for music printing and sequencers. Who could help me and indicate where I can get such software and not pay several my month salaries for it. For example I am interested in "Score Perfect Professional" for Windows, but in Berlin it costs 700 DM (this is 3 month salaries for me). I can use INTERNET only because I am working in PoznaSigma University Library as a chief of the Department of Music Collections. Somebody who could help me to receive the music software for IBM, could receive xerocopies of everything from the music collections from my Library (for example from the collection of 40.000 volumes of printed music). Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk PoznaSigma University Library Department of Music Collections PoznaSigma, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 04:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: nitpick #37b Comments: To: emusic-list For Mark Thanks for the reminder on death and publishing dates, but I believe Hanslick's work began appearing a bit earlier, in the mid-1840's. There may or may not have been much overlap, and perhaps Felix didn't get to see articles in various Zeitungs, but I'm certain that issues pertaining to his quote about words and music were circulating at that time. They certainly were when M. gave up the ghost and Wagner returned from exile. :-) Best, Florestan, Eusebius, and McCoy Attorneys at Law contact: mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 20:45:42 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: TSANG WING YAN Subject: Re: kawai xd-50 Aaron, I have an XD-5 where is a percussion sound module and may be related to your XD-5. I brought it for only US 6.5 bucks and have no manual. Its 16 perc kits and "sounds" OK but has very limited flexibility in sound editing. Charles... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 09:06:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: nitpick #37b, ammendment 1 In-Reply-To: > For Mark I love you too, Scott > > Thanks for the reminder on death and publishing dates, but I believe > Hanslick's work began appearing a bit earlier, in the mid-1840's. > There may or may not have been much overlap, and perhaps Felix didn't get > to see articles in various Zeitungs, but I'm certain that issues > pertaining to his quote about words and music were circulating at that > time. We are touchy, aren't we (heh heh). This sounds dissertation material. History of musical aesthetics. Maybe you can do some research on Hanslick's precedents and how they affected Mendelssohn. Mendelssohn wrote that passage I quoted in 1842, at which time Hanslick was 17 years old. XXXOOO Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 12:14:34 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: swingdrive Comments: To: eml@physics.american.edu i'm sorry that he's not still hanging around here... i think that roger dannenberg (at carnegie) would have something to contribute to this discussion. the last i heard, he was working on analyzing performance timing, to try and get a handle on just what it is that we control/respond to as 'feel', which of course includes 'swing.' personally, i have to say that i don't believe in the ineffable. if something occurs, it takes up time and space, and can be measured. certainly, something like 'swing' must involve more than just lagging or leading this or that beat... it's got to be something driven by several layers of context. but it's still a physical phenomenon, arising from the action of neuromotor control. it's not magical. it may be so complicated that the most *efficient* way of understanding it is on a non-verbal, gut level, acquired through active listening and participation. but this is not to say that quantification is impossible, or foolish, or worse. applying, for the moment, the gut response, i have to say that 'swing' for me has a pretty constrained cognitive flavor, that i find difficult to assign to classical or electronic music. i don't know... swing to me just always has this physical sense, this hip-swingin', toe-tappin', finger- snappin', head-bobbin' thing. rhythmic drive, though... now that's another thing, and i thank its author for providing us with the meme. i always thought of it as 'white-line music'... the sensation of driving, with the asphalt pulling you into the horizon. that's been the constant in most of my listening choices, and is what i get out of bach and tangerine dream. oh, and david... if you're cranking up for the crosswired response, don't forget the language followup. i think i pushed just a little harder, there. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:49:35 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Siberian Khatru Subject: Swing...Groove... I maybe wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere a quote by Leonard Bernstein that said, "Mahler GROOVES!" Would this be equivalent (roughly) to all this talk about classical music which swings? (In my mind, I roughly equate "grooves" with "swings.") Just another thought to throw in the ring. Cheers, Jon Southwood jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu ****************************************************************************** "Aria--Italian for 'song which will not end in your lifetime'"--Dave Barry ****************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:57:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: swingdrive In-Reply-To: <0098E2E9.72C52600.14851@physics.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Mar 31, 95 12:14:34 pm > personally, i have to say that i don't believe in the ineffable. if something > occurs, it takes up time and space, and can be measured. certainly, something > like 'swing' must involve more than just lagging or leading this or that > beat... it's got to be something driven by several layers of context. but > it's still a physical phenomenon, arising from the action of neuromotor > control. it's not magical. it may be so complicated that the most *efficient* > way of understanding it is on a non-verbal, gut level, acquired through > active listening and participation. but this is not to say that > quantification is impossible, or foolish, or worse. How about, "quantification of such a multi-layer, many-dimensional concept is difficult, given an essentially linear means of communication"? I'm not sure that even a visual representation alone would be sufficient. > applying, for the moment, the gut response, i have to say that 'swing' > for me has a pretty constrained cognitive flavor, that i find difficult > to assign to classical or electronic music. i don't know... swing to me > just always has this physical sense, this hip-swingin', toe-tappin', finger- > snappin', head-bobbin' thing. And I think the physicality of it is one of the characteristics. Possibly there is a relation between the naturally-uneven heartbeat rhythm and swing rhythms, which is what makes them so physically involving? --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 00:11:14 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Computer Music bibliography There is a bibliography on synthesizers, midi, computer and electronic music that I have collected from various sources. I have tried to bring some structure into it, but not all books will fit into a single subject. NOTE: I haven't read these books, and the comments are from other people. The latest version of this file can be obtained by ftp from ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] in pub/MIDI/DOC/bibliography or by mail from mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (send a message with HELP in the body). From the mail-server the filename without pub/ should be used. The latest monthly version is also available in the various news.answers archives around the world, in music/midi/bibliography. Version: $Id: bibliography,v 1.25 1994/09/08 12:24:00 piet Exp $ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 00:11:13 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Midi files/software archives on the Internet There is a list of ftp and mail server archives with MIDI documentation, programs and music on the Internet. Also enclosed is a list of MIDI and electronic music related mailing lists. The latest version of this file can be obtained by ftp from ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] in pub/MIDI/DOC/archives or by mail from mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (send a message with HELP in the body). From the mail-server the filename without pub/ should be used. The latest monthly version is also available in the various news.answers archives around the world, in music/midi/archives. Version: $Id: archives,v 1.121 1995/02/24 14:44:20 piet Exp $ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 18:19:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: john rossi Subject: Re: kawai xd-50 In-Reply-To: <199503311245.UAA46037@ctsc.hkbc.hk> On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, TSANG WING YAN wrote: > Aaron, I have an XD-5 where is a percussion sound module and may be related to > your XD-5. I brought it for only US 6.5 bucks and have no manual. Its 16 perc > kits and "sounds" OK but has very limited flexibility in sound editing. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am not aware of any dedicated percussion module which has more flexiblity in sound editing. For all intents and purposes the XD-5 is a K4 with limited ROM. How many other percussion devices give you the kind of timbral control the XD-5 does. When the thing was first released it was being touted as the ultimate in percussion synthesis. The reason is because it is a synthesizer with percussion and related ROM 'oscillators'. There are a lot of things that the XD-5 isn't but being an inflexible editor of the percussion patches isn't one of them (did I weite that sentence?). John 3 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 18:40:21 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jody Whitesides Subject: Swing, Groove, Time, Etc... Comments: To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU I think that group Delight summed it up best by saying that "groove is in the heart...." But I don't believe this fully. Swing, Groove, and other things that musicians do to notes over time are functions of ability to play. In that regards there are some people who have a 'better feel' for how to use time (to their benefit), as compared to others. Along these lines I'll let loose with some current artists whom I feel have a genius-sense of time. Frank Zappa, Robert Fripp, King's X, Dream Theater, Rush, Yes, The Johansson Bros., Stevie Ray Vaughn, Steve Vai, Shawn Lane, Steve Moorse, Queensryche, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, T-ride, Van Halen, Mark Knopfler, Pat Metheny, Greg and Matt Bissonette, Trent Reznor, Queen, Dan Gilbert, Norman Brown, (the list just keeps on going, and I would love to include myself, but I haven't had any material that's been released). Obviously this is a limited view and I've missed many musician's who probably have impeccable ability to manipulate time. But I think the real issue here is not about the Swing factor or the Groove factor. I think it's about a musician's ability to manipulate notes over time. Just my 2 cents worth. Bis Dann! "It's what's played between the notes, (now) that is golden!" --Jody Whitesides jwhitesides@lightside.com