========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:02:30 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: <0098E871.AB639B80.14965@physics.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Apr 7, 95 01:12:16 pm Eric Harnden writes, in reference to a recent concert-- > >let me open with two comments that are more cynical than they perhaps ought >to be, but are what floated to the top of my head when i walked away. [...] >first, on the more snide note, "20th century music is great because it frees >us from the strictures of great music." >second, i think i've finally got a personal definition of 'music'. for me >to identify something as music, i have to give a damn about what comes next. I think these two observations effectively disqualify you as a critic of the genre, then. Insistence on self-referential measures of 'greatness' goes a long way toward perpetuating the salaries of the people who do this stuff --oops, what a horrible thing to say! I guess I should go away and be quiet, being the uneducated, unqualified ignoramus that I am. I remember coming away from concerts at CMU by Dannenberg et alii and having that same deep sense of having wasted an evening, and an equally deep sense of carefully nurtured guilt at being unworthy to judge what I'd just heard... ...don't mind me. It's hard to critique academic music of this sort while listening to Machines Of Loving Grace doing "All I Really Need". > [...] i kept wondering just what >mechanical procedures he had selected to determine which stochastic >processes to apply to which frames of time/pitch space. as i heard more and >more of this kind of thing throughout the evening, i wondered just how the >academy had managed to paint itself into such a restrictive and distant >corner. of course, all genres are self-limiting by definition. it just seems >unfortunate that this is what it takes to merit 'serious' attention. Well, not to throw out a gratuitous plug or anything, but I am actually fairly pleased with the approach taken on our new album...we have one song that addresses the question of stochastic/algorithmic composition in, I think, an appropriate manner. There will be details in an upcoming post about our new album, _Ballistic_. >tg module, huh? does that have highpass filters? Yup. Two filters, one lowpass, one low or highpass, can be set up to work as a bandpass if desired. >. So was the music unorthodox as well or just purely functional? This begs another question: what was the music's 'function'? mike -- a definite head scratcher "what does it do??!!" "THIS:" KAWONKKKKDRERERERE BLAT BLAT BLOOOORT SHNEE grrrrrrt grrrrt. (lx rudis) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:03:02 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: yeehah!! In-Reply-To: <0098E871.F63D9840.14967@physics.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Apr 7, 95 01:14:21 pm Eric Harnden writes-- > >by the way, i just got MAX. >talk to you when i crawl back out back of the studio. > >weee!!!! >(zoop, boing, vwop vwop..) Nice knowing you. See you in 1998. mike -- a definite head scratcher "what does it do??!!" "THIS:" KAWONKKKKDRERERERE BLAT BLAT BLOOOORT SHNEE grrrrrrt grrrrt. (lx rudis) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:14:19 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: _SHatterday_ CD In-Reply-To: <199504080038.RAA14551@eat.organic.com> from "Rocky Mullin" at Apr 7, 95 05:38:19 pm Rocky Mullin writes-- > > i find no fault in trying to sell one's artistic > endeavors to members of one's own community in a > forum such as this. Well, unfortunately, we DO, 'we' being the moderators of the list. It says very specifically that plugs for listmembers' music are only permitted as parts of posts that contain material of use to the EMUSIC-L readership. More overt discussion of new releases by members is usually cartried out on SYNTH-L. This sort of distinction is fairly important, and it's rather embarassing when one of the moderators was the one to goof on it. Which is what John was pointing out. :) mike who NEVER makes mistakes like this with his own albums, please email him at the address below for details on how to buy the--D'OH!! 8-* -- a definite head scratcher "what does it do??!!" "THIS:" KAWONKKKKDRERERERE BLAT BLAT BLOOOORT SHNEE grrrrrrt grrrrt. (lx rudis) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:29:23 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Shatterday In-Reply-To: <9504072328.AA19240@ig1.att.att.com> from "Gregory A Youngdahl 708 979 0013" at Apr 7, 95 06:27:00 pm Gregory A Youngdahl 708 979 0013 writes-- > The insert artwork was very nicely done as well. I think the most >jaring thing to me was the photo of Joe! I guess I had this mental picture >of Joe based on reading the list and such, and it was startling to see how >far off the mark it was. I think the cartoon on the inside of the guy >holding the synth was closer to my expectation ;-) Oooh, I have no idea if Joe would appreciate the comparison. The guy in the cartoon is Ron Post, a psychotic multiple murderer who is the most dangerous fellow I know of, but isn't as good a musician as Joe (I have HEAD WOUNDS and ROAD KILLS, his two cassette releases, and neither is a s good as SHATTERDAY ;). I can't get SHATTERDAY out of my stereo. My wife keeps throwing my own CDs on the floor and putting SHATTERDAY in instead. *sigh* mike -- a definite head scratcher "what does it do??!!" "THIS:" KAWONKKKKDRERERERE BLAT BLAT BLOOOORT SHNEE grrrrrrt grrrrt. (lx rudis) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:41:03 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: continuous descent Comments: To: emusic-list Hey Joe, (where ya' goin' with that gun in your hand) I forget, did Rissett play a portion of Little Boy at the Computer Music conference in Maryland, or was it from another piece? I've got the spectrograph of this continuous descent (from Robert Cogan) if anyone is interested in taking a peek at what the descent looks like. Damn if it doesn't look like an Escher drawing. And it even sounds like that. That is, if you can imagine what Escher might sound like. Scott Mc. mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 00:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: rg8@UMAILSRV0.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: concert review (long) I would like to thank Joe, Eric and Jason for their reviews and comments about the concert featuring music of Cort Lippe and duo runedako, which was presented at UMCP on Thursday night. Your support of the efforts of UMCP and Towson State to present some e-music is greatly appreciated. We plan to do more, budgets permitting, including a workshop with Max Mathews in the fall. >From Eric Harnden's post: >so that's it. i had intended to do the straight review in one section, and >hold the commentary till after, but as you can tell it made its way into >the body of the text. jason, do you have anything to add? > > >JASON: > >Hmmmmm ..... No, not much to add, you have summed up the after concert >discussion well. Though, I found it interesting that the gentleman >introducing the concert began by apologizing for all of the wires and >other gizmos on stage, as if to say, "Welcome to the land of computer >music. It is supposed to be this way." Why must we apologize for being >computer musicians in the academic world? He also added something >to the effect that though the set-up appeared "unorthodox" it was indeed >functional. So was the music unorthodox as well or just purely functional? >Just an observation. The gentleman replies: Context is everything. The Ulrich Recital Hall in the Department of Music is the venue for over 200 concerts per year. Of these perhaps 3-5 involve any kind of gear routinely associated with electronic music. The concert under discussion was the most complex setup we have ever had in a computer music concert at UMCP, and many things about the presentation differed from a recital of instrumental music in the standard 18th/19th-century Western European repertoire, which are the majority of concerts in this venue. Although the audience was small and with some people who are quite knowledgable about e-music in attendance, there were also students and perhaps members of the community there who had never attended a computer music concert before. Rather than an apology, my remarks were meant to acknowledge some not-so-subtle differences in the presentation. The music will speak (or not) to each individual uniquely. Our goal was to present it as well as possible. Bob Gibson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:22:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Your distinctly undesired chain letter Comments: cc: LordSammy@AOL.COM, postmaster@AOL.COM In-Reply-To: <950408103813_76170308@aol.com> from "LordSammy@AOL.COM" at Apr 8, 95 10:38:14 am Chain letters are particularly unwelcome here, mostly because (I believe) the readership is smart enough to know that the whole thing is a scam. I am marking you as permanently "not allowed to post to this list" and am forwarding a copy to the postmaster at AOL. Have a *nice* day. Oh, by the way, pyramid schemes are illegal on the local, state, and federal levels. Good luck on not getting arrested, and too bad about your mailbox getting jammed, because about 500 people are probably going to tell you personally that they think you're a jerk. Note to the list: sending people like this e-mail usually doesn't help, but it's up to you. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:28:02 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: continuous descent In-Reply-To: from "L Mccoy" at Apr 8, 95 11:41:03 am > > Hey Joe, (where ya' goin' with that gun in your hand) > Gonna go down town, kill some spammers. > I forget, did Rissett play a portion of Little Boy at the Computer Music > conference in Maryland, or was it from another piece? I've got the > spectrograph of this continuous descent (from Robert Cogan) if anyone is > interested in taking a peek at what the descent looks like. > Yep. It just kept on, and on ... after a couple of minutes people were really starting to freak. It was great. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: from "rg8@UMAILSRV0.UMD.EDU" at Apr 8, 95 00:12:49 am > > I would like to thank Joe, Eric and Jason for their reviews and comments about > the concert featuring music of Cort Lippe and duo runedako, which was > presented at UMCP on Thursday night. Your support of the efforts of UMCP > and Towson State to present some e-music is greatly appreciated. We plan > to do more, budgets permitting, including a workshop with Max Mathews in > the fall. > Hot DOG! > Although the audience was small and with some people who are quite > knowledgable about e-music in attendance, there were also students and > perhaps members of the community there who had never attended a computer > music concert before. Rather than an apology, my remarks were meant to > acknowledge some not-so-subtle differences in the presentation. The music > will speak (or not) to each individual uniquely. Our goal was to present > it as well as possible. > Which, I must say, you did indeed. There were no technical glitches at all, and the sound quality was exceptional. I keep thinking that the theater would be a lovely place to perform - it's a nice size, and the acoustics are wonderful. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:51:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: <199504072347.TAA16901@clark.net> from "Joe McMahon" at Apr 7, 95 07:47:32 pm > > I submit that it is perfectly possible to use computers to make interesting > and listenable music. Nick does it all the time. It would be fascinating to > see what the audience reaction would have been to one of Nick's dance pieces > at the computer music conference. :) I have thought so, it just isn't done much. But who's Nick? -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * ham radio * freedom of information * cyberspace * RISC * packet * robotics * ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:03:28 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: <199504081851.LAA09435@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Apr 8, 95 11:51:29 am > > I have thought so, it just isn't done much. But who's Nick? > Our own Nick Rothwell, who has now gotten to the point where he can play an entire interactive dance piece using MAX, his synth modules, and a Peavey slider box. There was a message from him a while back on how he does it. ---- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:01:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: San Diego guitar meltdown fyi: verbivocovisual in the digital domain April 22, 1995, CRCA (408 university center), UCSD Interactive Projects and CD ROMs: (5:00-7:00 PM) I don't know anything about the quality of this one. artist's reception: 7:00-8:00 PM (I'll be there!) Art and Technology Performances (8:00-10:00 PM) featuring Vibeke Sorensen, THE, John Stevens, Jaroslaw Kapuscinski, and Pat Payne. This could be an interesting program. (Well...I'll looking forward to seeing/hearing it.) (additional programs on friday, april 21). and it's all free. hope to see you there, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:36:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Galante Subject: unsubscribe Please unsubscribe Brian Galante from you mailing lists. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 11:19:49 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Your distinctly undesired chain letter Hi Joe (and others reading this)... > I am marking you as permanently "not allowed to post to this list" and >am forwarding a copy to the postmaster at AOL. Have a *nice* day. Right on, Joe. I noticed that in this letter it said that the receiver must send it to 20 people. I suppose that thought that he/she could do it the easy way. But would it work? It's only one address, even though more than one person would receive it. Also, it said that >you should not sign this list. But quite a few did, even if they were wacky names! Just goes to show you how stupid these things are. ObEmCon: Just wondering how many (and which) of you emusicers who are going to ICMC and/or ISEA later this year? I'd love to meet you. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 19:50:28 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Davvid Brooks Subject: Donald Rogers bass player/singer from Buffalo NY, trying to locate for project in Chicago IL. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:41:05 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: <199504081002.DAA00208@netcom23.netcom.com> > Eric Harnden writes, in reference to a recent concert-- > > > >let me open with two comments that are more cynical than they perhaps ought > >to be, but are what floated to the top of my head when i walked away. [...] > >first, on the more snide note, "20th century music is great because it frees > >us from the strictures of great music." > >second, i think i've finally got a personal definition of 'music'. for me > >to identify something as music, i have to give a damn about what comes next. > > I think these two observations effectively disqualify you as a critic of the > genre, then. Insistence on self-referential measures of 'greatness' goes > a long way toward perpetuating the salaries of the people who do this stuff > > --oops, what a horrible thing to say! I guess I should go away and be quiet, > being the uneducated, unqualified ignoramus that I am. I remember coming > away from concerts at CMU by Dannenberg et alii and having that same deep > sense of having wasted an evening, and an equally deep sense of carefully > nurtured guilt at being unworthy to judge what I'd just heard... Mike, I think both you and Eric are saying the same thing. The fact that you're untrained in the ways of the academy makes you more worthy to judge what these guys are doing, because you're not all caught up in the techniques they used to create it and you can listen to the "what" without worrying about the "how". Are you intelligent? Then you're qualified to judge this music. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:51:50 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: concert review (long) Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Mark Simon said: > Are you intelligent? Then you're qualified to judge this music. I concur with this statement. People judge movies all the time, yet few actually understand what goes into making a movie. Even with shows on the Discovery channel like "Movie Magic" that provide some education, your average movie goer isn't "sufficiently" educated. The same may be said about judging any aesthtetic endeavor. Emusic-l members are well qualified to judge ANY music. (Just be careful not to judge for others, just for yourself. (-: Even Siskel and Ebert have an off day!) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:58:16 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Fair price? Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:20:08 -0800 > From: LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU!owner-emusic-l@ig2.att.att.com > Organization: Biola University > Subject: Fair price? > > I have to convert a 40 track MIDI file into a 6 track MIDI file (for a video > game score). What is a good rate for this type of work? > > Thanks, > > Randy Budnikas Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu $40 per hour. How long will it take you to convert the file? Is all you have to do is merge data or do you have to decide what material stays and what goes? Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:08:02 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: CD ROM w. S/PDIF interface? Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:00:31 -0400 > From: LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU!owner-emusic-l@ig2.att.att.com > Subject: CD ROM w. S/PDIF interface? > > Do any of you out there remember seeing a CD ROM reader (maybe in keyboard or > EM) that had S/PDIF digital outs? Most of them have analog outs, but that's > still only analog. I'd love to have the capability of keeping CD samples in > the digital domain (instead of always having to use the analog inputs on my > sampler). If they are manufactured and go for a reasonable priced, then the > combination of features would be a bargain. GLYPH makes one. I'll look up the data and tell you more tomorrow. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:35:56 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Sequencing Dinosaurs Comments: To: Emusic List No, i'm not talking about vintage sequencers and this topic may be better suited for the synth-l list, so reply there if you think i'm unjustly taking up emusic-l bandwidth. Anyway, i was watching a rerun of nextstep on Discovery which had a bit on the Dinosaur puppetronics for Jurassic Park. As i'm watching them control the T-rex, a brief shot of the computer reveiled a Macintosh apparently running an older version of Opocode Vision. Since the screen was full of sequencer events on a piano roll, i'd say, they were using note information to control the T-Rex's servos instead of Midi Machine Control. Anyone have more info on such industrial applications of MIDI? -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The usual issues of societally-induced female technophobia are always raised [in discussions about the lack of female emusicians], but I have to admit that the possibility of trapping to extinction never came up" (mike metlay) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 18:03:16 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: <9504101651.AA10529@acropolis> On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, william.b.fox wrote: > Mark Simon said: > > Are you intelligent? Then you're qualified to judge this music. > > I concur with this statement. People judge movies all the time, yet > few actually understand what goes into making a movie. Even with shows > on the Discovery channel like "Movie Magic" that provide some education, > your average movie goer isn't "sufficiently" educated. The same may be > said about judging any aesthtetic endeavor. Emusic-l members are well > qualified to judge ANY music. (Just be careful not to judge for others, > just for yourself. (-: Even Siskel and Ebert have an off day!) > > Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com Furthermore, it's the composer's job to sell the piece to *you*, not your job to "raise yourself" to the point where you can understand his divine utterances. I say this with a certain amount of qualification, because we all know that there's a lot of facile music out there that panders to lazy ears. But, granted you're an intelligent listener, if the piece still doesn't make any sense to you, then I think you have legitimate grounds to question what the composer is doing. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 19:40:07 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Randy Budnikas Organization: Biola University Subject: Fair price Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu I wrote: > I have to convert a 40 track MIDI file into a 6 track MIDI file (for a video > game score). What is a good rate for this type of work? > > Thanks, > > Randy Budnikas Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu Then Bill wrote: $40 per hour. How long will it take you to convert the file? Is all you have to do is merge data or do you have to decide what material stays and what goes? Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com Now I'm answering: For the more complex orchestral files, it will take all day, maybe longer. I have to convert an orchestral score into a file with no more than 6 voices polyphony. So I have to decide which material stays and goes. Is $40 an hour still a good price? Thanks. Randy Budnikas Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 03:51:29 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Calvery Subject: Matrix 6R--any comments? Greetings fellow fellows and fellowettes, I haven't been pricing ALL vintage-type synth gear . . so when I ran up on the Oberheim Matrix 6R, I didn't realize the $ had gotten so low. I think it's worth about 175-ish, but this consignment place wants 250 for it. I'm going to see if the owner will accept a lesser offer. Have any of you ever had any problems with this machine? Is there a button to hold down during power-up to check the ROM software version, etc.... I like it just fine, but I have seen a couple of the key versions with drifting oscillator-like problems: you know, like when every 5th interval buzzes a little differently from the other notes and then that interval jumps from place to place over the unit's range (if that makes any sense). I know it's not exactly a Matrix 12 or OB-8, but if I can get this thing for under 200 then I'm certainly interested. I believe they listed for around a grand originally. Just thought I'd ask and see. Thanks. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 07:58:16 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: poisoned academicians Comments: To: emusic-list I, for one, do appreciate the recent comments on the list about how out of touch academicians can be. 'Tis true, sometimes the focus on techniques can sterilize the aesthetic receptors. But, I'm not quite sure the issue is an either/or thang. I've seen some of this floating about on the Cage list as well. It's as if a genuine interest in learning how a composer handles his material somehow de-mystifies the listening experience. Almost like, if you use your brain at all, then you've become a tainted gentle savage. It's come up before, and I still maintain, that analysis need not be an imposition of opinion, but perhaps it is simply an expression of how one experiences. "But just listen, man." "Just feel the groove." Strange how a change of address communicates to others that these activities don't happen anymore. Perhaps it is easier to categorize people this way. I don't know, this trumpeting and advocating of the division of heart and mind is a bit depressing. I see it in my colleagues, a continuous string of binarisms. Bullshit detectors (worn as caps) always turned on. Lots of fear and pain. Yes, much of the generalizations I've seen here about academicians seem pretty accurate. I hope that not all are categorically dismissed. In some, perhaps, the corpus collossum is still in good working order. Melancholy in the Morning, Scott McCoy mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:25:09 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: MAX 4 WINDOWS: LAST LAST CALL From: JOEL STERN Subject: MAX 4 WINDOWS: LAST LAST CALL Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu O.K., folks...I've got the names compiled and ready to go to Opcode. I'm going to make one last appeal ---> All you people who don't use PC/Windows but think that those of us who DO should have a crack at MAX please send me your name and email address to add to the petition. I will phrase the petition language in such a way that this is understood--so there will be no confusion that you want to BUY PC/Windows MAX. Ah yes: if you are a PC/windows person and haven't sent me your name for the "please develop a version a Opcode MAX for Windows" petition this is your last chance. Please address all correspondence to my personal email address and put something about MAX in the subject line. Thanks to all Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:42:19 U Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hall, Troy" Subject: Melodic/Harmonic Algorithms Is there any source that one might look at to get a broader sense of the = approach and/or exact algorithms others have used to generate melodic or = harmonic sequences that resemble so-called Western (not C&W) music, i.e. = 12 notes/octave equal-temperament and a few iv7-ii7-V7-I-like sequences? Also, have there developed any schools of thought on composition using = sythesized timbral variations? That is, can someone (probably an academic = -- they're not all bad) say that a particular composer "comes from the = _XXX School_" when referring to the manner in which the composer uses = timbral variation in a particular style? -TH "When you paint yourself into a corner, wait 'til the paint dries, then = paint where your feet were." - heard on street. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 10:31:12 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: CD ROM w. S/PDIF interface? Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu I know I promised more info about the Glyph CD-ROM drive but I decided to post it on SYNTH-L since it seems a little too gear-head in nature to my way of thinking. If you don't subscribe there and want the info, send me email. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:10:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Siberian Khatru Subject: Re: poisoned academicians In-Reply-To: On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, L Mccoy (GD 1999) wrote: > I, for one, do appreciate the recent comments on the list about how out > of touch academicians can be. 'Tis true, sometimes the focus on > techniques can sterilize the aesthetic receptors. > > But, I'm not quite sure the issue is an either/or thang. I've seen some > of this floating about on the Cage list as well. It's as if a genuine > interest in learning how a composer handles his material somehow > de-mystifies the listening experience. Almost like, if you use your > brain at all, then you've become a tainted gentle savage. I have to agree with Mr. Mccoy on this one. All too often, people accuse composers of over-academicizing and leaving their audiences cold, but I think this is an unfair generalization. First of all, listen to a fugue by the great J.S. Bach (or any fugue, for that matter.) Fugues are a TECHNIQUE, just as serialism is. But how many times do you hear people screaming about Bach or Beethoven being stuck in the so-called "Ivory Tower of Academia"? I haven't been a party to any such discussions. Second, I recently (Thursday through Saturday) attended the national conference of Society of Composers, Inc. which was held at the University of Iowa. There were few non-faculty composers whose works were performed (in other words, lots of the "academia" were in the spot light.) Some of it left me cold, one of which was blatantly serial. However, I don't blame the serialism, I blame the composer. I mean, serialism can be very well done if the composer crafts it well (just as a fugue may be terrible if the composer doesn't handle the materials well.) For those of you who are afraid of the "death of tonality," fear not, for there were plenty of pieces which (though not tonal in the I-IV-V functional harmony sense) exhibited tonal centers, at times, while at other times were atonal for (seemingly) very expressive reasons. ObEmCon: Lawrence Fritts (currently at the University of Chicago) had a wonderful piece for computer-generated tape. It was done almost entirely with FM synthesis, using one of the Yamaha (?TX?) sound modules. The string sounds were astounding. When I talked to him at intermission, he said that it was done by painstakingly altering the envelopes, pitch-bend, start/end times, etc. of the same pitches on many different channels to achieve the "string-section" sound. Just my $0.01 (I'm a "financially-challenged" undergrad.) Cheers, Jon Southwood jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu ****************************************************************************** "Aria--Italian for 'song which will not end in your lifetime'"--Dave Barry ****************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:27:48 +2557600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Organization: Heinous Owners Club And Persons With Nine Letter Names Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Mark G Simon wrote: > Furthermore, it's the composer's job to sell the piece to *you*, not your > job to "raise yourself" to the point where you can understand his divine > utterances. I say this with a certain amount of qualification, because we > all know that there's a lot of facile music out there that panders to > lazy ears. But, granted you're an intelligent listener, if the piece > still doesn't make any sense to you, then I think you have legitimate > grounds to question what the composer is doing. No, the composer can sell if s/he wants to, or the composer can decide not to sell. That choice goes to each composer. In America, we have these freedoms. If not exercised, they will atrophy. Of course the audience can question what the composer is doing. But it works both ways: the composer can also question what the audience (and Hollywood, and Madison Avenue, and Musicology, and D'Amato, Exon and Helms) is (are) doing. -- Kirk -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dr. Kirk Corey [insert Electronic Systems Administrator kirk-corey@uiowa.edu disclaimer School of Music http://kahless.isca.uiowa.edu/~kcorey/ here] The University of Iowa "Msdos? MSDOS? I've seen CALCULATORS with a better operating system!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:02:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mark G Simon Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: poisoned academicians In-Reply-To: On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, L Mccoy (GD 1999) wrote: > I, for one, do appreciate the recent comments on the list about how out > of touch academicians can be. 'Tis true, sometimes the focus on > techniques can sterilize the aesthetic receptors. Thank you for your rational and cool-headed response, Scott. I appreciate it. > But, I'm not quite sure the issue is an either/or thang. I've seen some > of this floating about on the Cage list as well. It's as if a genuine > interest in learning how a composer handles his material somehow > de-mystifies the listening experience. Almost like, if you use your > brain at all, then you've become a tainted gentle savage. It seems we've become almost automatic adversaries on this list, but I hope you're not working under the assumption that I harbor such an attitude. No siree. My statement was "are you intelligent? Then you're qualified to judge this music", and I meant it. I just assume that an intelligent listener will use his/her brain in listening. If listening were simply a matter of "just feel the groove" it wouldn't have mattered to Eric that he didn't give a darn about what came next. Music has its own logic and when you can decode that logic in the listening process then certain buttons are pressed in your brain, voila, you feel an emotion. You might say that Stravinsky was correct, that music cannot express anything at all, because the emotion is something that's synthesized in the brain of the listener as a result of processing the logic of the music. In other words, the emotion is there, but it doesn't necessarily reside in the music itself. Basically we're talking about 2 different kinds of analytical logic here. There's the pre-compositional logic, that of the composer deciding how to put his/her piece together. Then there's the listener's logic, that which sorts through all the data being thrown at him, and tries to piece it together in *real time* in such a way that it seems logical. I emphasise the words "real time". I think of listening as a creative act, kind of like improvisation, because it only counts while the music is actually playing. The type of musical analysis which picks apart thematic, harmonic, structural elements before hand ("the first theme reappears in inverted form at meas. 256"...) is important, in a preparatory way. Just like you have to practice your scales, and the like before you can put out a good improvisation. But what really counts is what goes on in your head when the music is playing. So, the composer's job is to anticipate how the listener is going decode the sounds you're throwing at him and to construct the presentation of those sounds in a way that will lead the listener decode the sounds the way you intend him to. The composer's logic must be directed towards maximizing the listener's logic. If you apply some sort of logical operation to your composition and the listener can't decode it, that logic is irrelevant. If you apply one sort of logical operation to the composition and the listener percieves a different sort of logic, the only logic that really matters is the one that the listener found. What Eric was saying is that he was unable to perceive whatever compositional logic was put into the music he was listening to, therefore it was just the same as if that logic wasn't there. As a clarinettist I regret not being at that concert to hear the Cort Lippe piece. I would have enjoyed hearing how the ways the clarinet tone was manipulated and made to generate other sounds. I would have sat there and pondered how I might utilize such devices in my own music, even if I didn't care for what Lippe did with them in his. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu > > It's come up before, and I still maintain, that analysis need not be an > imposition of opinion, but perhaps it is simply an expression of how one > experiences. (Yes, I think this is true, Scott) > Melancholy in the Morning, Sounds like a good song title. let's see... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 15:43:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: concert review (long) In-Reply-To: > > No, the composer can sell if s/he wants to, or the composer can decide not > to sell. That choice goes to each composer. In America, we have these > freedoms. If not exercised, they will atrophy. > > Of course the audience can question what the composer is doing. But it > works both ways: the composer can also question what the audience (and > Hollywood, and Madison Avenue, and Musicology, and D'Amato, Exon and > Helms) is (are) doing. > > -- Kirk Still, it's the audience that gets the last word, because if they don't want to listen, there ain't nobody that's gonna make 'em. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 13:06:58 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Evan Jones Subject: UC Santa Cruz' APRIL IN SANTA CRUZ FESTIVAL NEW MUSIC Comments: To: cstone@netcom.com, david@jaffe.com, econcert@charles.ucdavis.edu, edens@interval.com, emusic-l@american.edu, fish@musclefish.com, furman@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, js%timbre.uucp@nbn.com, kathy@jaffe.com, mab@dolby.com, michael@mcnabb.com, muscom@mills.edu, raf@mercury.sfsu.edu, robert@rockmore.com, rww@sgi.com, scotgl@csuhayward.edu, STRANGE@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, studer@applelink.app.com, tildy@ella.mills.edu, timis@opcode.com, timper@holonet.net, wendt@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SANTA CRUZ presents 'APRIL IN SANTA CRUZ' FESTIVAL OF CONTEMPORARY MUSIC David Evan Jones, Director 1995 ALL CONCERTS: 8PM, $8/$3 Performing Arts Concert Hall, UCSC (459-2787) ALL COLLOQUIA are free. Wed, Apr 12: COLLOQUIUM: Guest Composer James Tenney discusses 4:15PM his work. Porter College House, Porter College, UCSC. Wed, Apr 12: MUSIC OF GUEST COMPOSER JAMES TENNEY 8PM "Chromatic Canon" and "Ergodos III" for two pianos. "Road to Ubud" for prepared, microtonal piano and gamelan, and Rags by composer James Tenney. With four sonatas for Cembalo (Harpsichord) by Lou Harrison Fri, Apr 14: COLLOQUIUM: James Tenney and Lou Harrison: 4PM 'A Conversation on Tuning' UCSC Performing Arts, J-105. Sat, Apr 15: "Net-works: Algorithmic Shorts from the Internet" 8PM Algorithmic shorts by Gary Nelson, David Zicarelli, David Cope Tom Johnson, Allen Strange, Heinrich Taube, Webern, Mozart, Haydn, C.P.E. Bach, and others. Composer panel follows concert. Wed, Apr 19: UCSC Faculty David Cope and Hi Kyung Kim discuss their 4:15PM works to be presented in this evening's concert. Wed, Apr 19: UCSC Faculty Showcase: Works by David Cope, Linda 8PM Burman-Hall, David Evan Jones, Hi Kyung Kim, and Eric Sawyer for percussion ensemble, gamelan, voice and chamber ensemble. Wed, Apr 26: Willy Winant leads the UCSC percussion ensemble in 8PM a concert featuring the works of James Tenney, Lou Harrison, and others. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 16:40:35 +2288800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Organization: Heinous Owners Club And Persons With Nine Letter Names Subject: Composers and audiences In-Reply-To: On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Mark G Simon wrote: > > > > No, the composer can sell if s/he wants to, or the composer can decide not > > to sell. That choice goes to each composer. In America, we have these > > freedoms. If not exercised, they will atrophy. > > > > Of course the audience can question what the composer is doing. But it > > works both ways: the composer can also question what the audience (and > > Hollywood, and Madison Avenue, and Musicology, and D'Amato, Exon and > > Helms) is (are) doing. > > > > -- Kirk > > Still, it's the audience that gets the last word, because if they don't > want to listen, there ain't nobody that's gonna make 'em. > > Mark Simon > mgs2@cornell.edu Somehow, I knew it would be a matter of getting the last word. :) All of what you say is true but incomplete. Remember that Bach was dead before Mendelssohn "discovered" him. The audience does get the last word, except for all the next audiences that will follow, who will get yet another last word. Entire styles do come back to life. Tell the truth now-- would you have bought stock 5 years ago if someone told you they were going to make a recording of Gregorian Chant that would go *platinum*? WRT to "academic" music, the fat lady has not yet sung. Heck, she hasn't even left the dressing room.... -- Kirk P.S. Someone else just mentioned the recent SCI conference here. I know the SCI Newsletter will soon be reprinting Glenn Watkins' (Pyramids at the Louvre) keynote address from the conference. It addresses many of these issues quite nicely, imho. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 18:44:28 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Enricco Subject: Re: Melodic/Harmonic Algorithms On the discussion of Harmonic and Melodic Algorithms, my opinion is that if you want more complex-like flowing melodies and progressions there are excellent Jazz theory and orchestration books out there. Such books as : The Jazz Language - by Dan Haerle and Voices for Jazz Keyboard by Frank Mantooth will give excellent analysis of complex harmonies and especially II-V7-I progressions. A book that have a wealth of melodic material and analysis is: The Jazz Style of Clifford Brown by David Baker There are also various other Jamie Abersold transcription books, especially from the likes of John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, or Mccoy Tyner that will supply you with volumes of material. I hope that this will help you in your search. John Enricco Trptmn@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 16:49:27 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: Sequencing Dinosaurs Arne writes: >Since the screen was full of sequencer events >on a piano roll, i'd say, they were using note information to control the >T-Rex's servos instead of Midi Machine Control. Anyone have more info on such >industrial applications of MIDI? Sorry, no additional information, but imagine the composition if the dino was being controlled through note information. Somewhat algorithmic and chancy, but maybe it would sound interesting as well. . .especially if the notes were well assigned. Then again, the Vision images might just be for looks, like "wow! techno man!"....producers do that all the time. Truly, John JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 18:45:45 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jk Subject: Re: Fair price foxy writes: >$40 per hour. How long will it take you to convert the file? Is all >you have to do is merge data or do you have to decide what material >stays and what goes? randy sez: >For the more complex orchestral files, it will take all day, maybe longer. I >have to convert an orchestral score into a file with no more than 6 voices >polyphony. So I have to decide which material stays and goes. Is $40 an hour >still a good price? Thanks. How experienced are you at this? I agree with Bill Fox that $40 is reasonable for this work, but if you haven't done it very much you may have to do some small battles learning a few things: In this case you can charge $40/hr. and lie about your hours (really, just estimate the hard core stuff and not figure in mucking around); or, charge a different rate. Again $40 is fair and reasonable. If you are trying to gain more work, however, consider offering your services at a 'reduced rate' (tell the client that) and charge the reduced rate for the first or first several jobs. If the client likes your work and is comfortable working with you, she/he'll pay full fare when time comes. I know a video producer who does this and I've done it and not regretted it. See ya, John JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:12:29 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Calvery Subject: Emagic E-mail address? Do any of you know if there is an E-mail address for these guys? Probably not. It's just hard to get them on the phone for some reason. If you haven't checked out this software, you're REALLY missing the yacht. I'm planning on ditching Performer (which I love) to totally move over to this stuff. Here's what information I have on the company: Emagic, Inc. USA P.O. Box 92532 152 Carlton Street Toronto, ON Canada M5A 2V3 416-363-9106 FAX: 416-363-2464 Tech. Support: 916-477-1051 Later. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:30:53 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Larry Burnett." Subject: Re: concert review (long) It is not really the audience that matters, it is history that matters (that longer, more distant audience). And for the listener, its simply whether you like/are thrilled by the music. I think its wonderful that there are so many people trying to make great music, but unless you know its your hobby, don't forget: its either great or, ultimately, its nothing. Larry Burnett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 02:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Re: Emagic E-mail address? I found one on AOL. I live right down the street from them. DaveEMAGIC@AOL.COM This EMail address is for Dave Smith at EMagic. He is in Tech Support. I use to jam with the CEO. I'm STILL trying to get a job there. deved ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 02:36:44 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Opcode's Vision 2.0 Does anyone know if Opcode will be releasing a version of their Vision software for the Windows environment? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 18:12:40 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: great or nothing (was RE: concert review (long)) Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu On April 11 From: "Larry Burnett." apostophelessly... >I think its wonderful that there are so many people trying to make great >music, but unless you know its your hobby, don't forget: its either great or, >ultimately, its nothing. Larry Burnett I listen to lots of music. Some is great, in my opinion. Also, in my opinion, some is not. But that doesn't mean that that which is not is nothing. It is something, even if I detested it. If I hate it and I want to flick channels on the radio, that ain't nothing. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 06:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: RonG225zt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Opcode's Vision 2.0 There has been a Windows version out for many months now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 06:26:45 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Thomas_Ashworth-RZSW10@EMAIL.SPS.MOT.COM Subject: Casio information Casio information I just got a used Casio CT-650 and don't have any manuals. Does anyone have the address to Casio? Does anyone have a patchmap or channel map? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, thomas@email.sps.mot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 11:43:55 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: Composers and audiences Kirk> Remember that Bach was dead before Mendelssohn "discovered" him, . . . WRT to "academic" music, the fat lady has not yet sung. Heck, she hasn't even left the dressing room.... Actually Mendelssohn rediscovered him, Bach was writing music that was functional and performed in his day to an average audience of church goers/court members. The academic stuff has *never* had an average following of any sort. Looks like the fat lady will never get the chance to sing at all. -*-* Jeff Talman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 08:50:08 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: MAX LAST, LAST, LAST... From: JOEL STERN Subject: MAX LAST, LAST, LAST... Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu This may be getting silly, but I want to do this right, dammit. I have 25 names of people who support/want Windows MAX. That's respectable, but maybe not overwhelming. IF by any chance you sent me your name for the MAX petition and you have reason to suspect your message got bounced back or that I didn't receive it, try me again at stern@MAIL.loc.gov instead of stern@EMAIL.loc.gov. Thanks. Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 10:23:36 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Opcode's Vision 2.0 In-Reply-To: <950412065704_80423386@aol.com>; from "RonG225zt@AOL.COM" at Apr 12, 95 6:57 am According to RonG225zt@AOL.COM: > > There has been a Windows version out for many months now. > I only recently learned that Vision had been released for Windows, but so far, (alas) it is only version 1.4, not version 2.0 Apparently, Opcode won the contract from Microsoft to write the new native Windows MIDI driver for "Windows 95" to be released later in the year. Nice luck for all of us, I'd say. -Pete Schoenhoff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 08:42:51 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: composers/audiences Comments: To: EMUSIC-L Thanks to Mark, Scott, Kirk, Bill, et alii, for their comments and followups. I've been off the Net for a day or two due to a bad Cisco router and missed a lot of this as it was happening, alas, and it's gone far afield (in a good way!) from where I started. I think tht the conclusion that folks have come to at this point is actually gentler than the one I was hinting at; my accusation, in a sense, was that academicians deliberately foster a sense of ignorance and guilt in their audiences to insulate themselves from criticism...they label criticism as 'not coming from someone capable of criticising.' This is probably mean-spirited inthe extreme and certainly not characteristic of all or even most academic musicians, electronic or otherwise. At least I hope not. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | EIRIKUR LOOKS AT LIFE #43: on the Moog Sonic Six atomic-city@netcom.com | "I believe that I have had more fun, but it was http://pd.net/atomic-city | a long time ago, and involved an attic, a us mail: p. o. box 81175 | mattress, Drambuie, a beautiful woman, and an pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | original Edison recording cylinder." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:46:22 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Calvery Subject: $ making ideas anyone? I'm trying to be as NON-CHATTY as I can, but I have to ask this question of you guys: . . . does anyone have any interesting situations to share with (me personally or) the list about interesting ways you've made $ using your gear/talent/etc? I live in Nashville and think I'm going to begin a home-spun demo studio to bring in a few extra bucks on the side using my hard-earned, currently less than profitable gear. Let's jog our imaginations and help each other shake the money tree. After all, I'm sure most of us are on this list to better ourselves in some way--> and profit=better. Just a though. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:48:14 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Corey Johnson Subject: Perplexed. Emusic advocates: Being a new subscriber to this list, I probably haven't yet been exposed to the full spectrum of topics which are discussed here, so I apologize if this question is ill-informed... When do you actually talk about music? So far the bulk of what I've read seems better suited to a technology newsgroup or an aesthetic theory debate. I was expecting to have at least some exposure to new music which I might be able to enjoy--either live or on recording. If I misunderstood the purpose of this forum, please enlighten me. I had assumed that fellow enthusiasts here would provide a rich source for challenging and interesting experimental -or even mainstream- artists, but I've read dozens of posts now which concern peripheral matters. I would be grateful to learn which artists the readers here find stimulating and exciting in the field today. It doesn't matter how esoteric or theoretical, nor how mundane. You all must be listening to something. Or is this resource for musicians only? If that's the case, then perhaps someone could point me to an alternative where hungry ears can find good leads. Many thanks, -//Coreyj//- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:33:46 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David B. Little" Subject: Re: Concert review: Music for performers and computer Comments: To: EMUSIC-L Mailing List Address Please define ISPW. I'm new to this. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:36:41 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David B. Little" Subject: Re: Mini Moog wanted Comments: To: EMUSIC-L Mailing List Address wrote: >Subject: Mini Moog wanted >Date: 95-04-06 23:20:02 EDT >From: Gregman1@AOL.COM (Greg Poltrock) > > >One of my students wants to buy a Mini Moog desperately. Can >>>anyone help? I may have one laying around at one of the stores at the chain where I work. I will E mail you 4-7-95. Ross Wright, Anything Musical Spitzer Music Co. 818 763 3383 Can you find a MicroMoog? That was my first toy and it does some great ring mods that I can't do on anything else. Thanks... +DBL --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:36:34 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Bill (not me, obviously) said: > . . . does anyone have any interesting situations to share with > (me personally or) the list about interesting ways you've made $ using your > gear/talent/etc? > > I live in Nashville and think I'm going to begin a home-spun demo studio to > bring in a few extra bucks on the side using my hard-earned, currently less > than profitable gear. Let's jog our imaginations and help each other shake > the money tree. After all, I'm sure most of us are on this list to better > ourselves in some way--> and profit=better. Since Nashville is one of the music meccas, one of the activities that might be easier for you than for others, is shopping your songs to music publishers. My friend, Dave, in Cleveland, doesn't want to be the artist out on the road (been there, done that, moved on) but wants his songs placed by publishers with recording artists so he can collect royalties from the comfort of his own home. He's good at marketing himself and his songs. He has signed with a few publishers, but they haven't placed any of his songs to date. (Watch for a review of one of his songs in the next issue of RECORDING magazine and the corresponding issue of PLAYBACK, the companion CD. His nom-de-plume is Mann Wolf. Carefully read his equipment list which is less than sterling and based around a decade old Porta Two. I'll stack his sound quality against anybody else's. And the reviewed piece was mixed to cassette because it was submitted before he bought a DAT machine.) As you said, you can open your doors to the public and be a demo studio for those who have stars in their eyes and no equipment to make their demos at home. You can also score music for films and industrial videos or start a jingle studio. Find a market and release tapes and/or CDs of your original music. Try doing this for aerobics instructors, children, new agers, theme parks, restaurants, or planetaria. Do lead sheets, arrange and orchestrate standards and cover tunes. Sell MIDI files of same. Produce or develop a local band. Just do it! Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:21:33 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rocky Mullin Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? first of all, make sure that you file your taxes for 1995 fiscal year with additional income for 'sefl employment.' next, take stock *now* of the gear that you already own that you will be bringing into this 'business', as you can deduct all of it but only on your first year. then save reciepts for everything for your studio.... gear, tape, cables... keep records of faxes and fone calls (hell get a fone line for the studio, too.) also keep track of exactly how much you make as self employed, no matter how small it is. it's probably a good idea to spend the $10-20 on a ficticious business name and liscence. with this stuff you can get a checking account in the studio's name, and maybe get discounts on gear. there's a great series of books by the company nolo press, many of them dealing with this sort of thing. highly reccomended. also, try doing some web searches, on nolo press as well as other key words. ah, i seem to have found the nolo press site: http://gnn.interpath.net/gnn/bus/nolo/index.html try that on for size. ah, i love having a t1 line! /\ c /\ a /\ l /\ i /\ b /\ a /\ n /\ rocky mullin /__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\ organic online \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / san francisco \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ http://wbl.com/~caliban splitting lanes on the information superhighway ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:33:36 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rocky Mullin Subject: Re: Perplexed. emusic: picked up a cd at the tower outlet that i really really like. ralph lundsten anf leo nilsson. swedish emusic in the traditional style, circa the late sixties. i especially like this stuff because it sounds like my current band. cool liner notes, one of the pieces was part of a larger piece by early video artist nam june paik. norwegian import, androMedia records, 888-010 /\ c /\ a /\ l /\ i /\ b /\ a /\ n /\ rocky mullin /__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\ organic online \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / san francisco \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ http://wbl.com/~caliban splitting lanes on the information superhighway ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:38:24 CDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Kevan L. Moore" Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? bill wrote: > you guys: . . . does anyone have any interesting situations to share with > (me personally or) the list about interesting ways you've made $ using your > gear/talent/etc? i've played 36 weddings (always as an aside), and turned down about a dozen. what i've discovered is that people don't know the difference between a full-blown symphony's worth of computerized synth orchestration and a single, out-of-tune spinet. i've played in both situations, and in *both* situations most of the people say "that sounded good." if people can't hear the difference (most people are as adept at music as i am at finding clothes that match) they won't pay the difference. furthermore, most don't realize what it takes. i had a woman call me on a saturday needing music for her daughter's wedding 2 days later. four songs, to be played on the piano currently in the auditorium. not knowing her from adam i said "sure. i'll be glad to do it for $50." she wound up using someone else, and my cousin, who attended the wedding, said it sounded like she wouldn't pay $25. i mean, a wedding is a once in a lifetime thing that you want to be the best, but people just aren't that interested. playing any song in any key with little notice SHOULD be worth some money, but not to the masses. well, this was an example of how NOT to make money. i'd be interested in hearing anyone else's wedding horror stories of unappreciation and similar philistine pig-ignorance. :-) kevan l moore ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:08:26 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Perplexed. In-Reply-To: from "Corey Johnson" at Apr 12, 95 12:48:14 pm Corey Johnson writes-- > > Emusic advocates: > > Being a new subscriber to this list, I probably haven't yet been > exposed to the full spectrum of topics which are discussed here, so I > apologize if this question is ill-informed... > > When do you actually talk about music? > > So far the bulk of what I've read seems better suited to a technology > newsgroup or an aesthetic theory debate. I was expecting to have at > least some exposure to new music which I might be able to > enjoy--either live or on recording. If I misunderstood the purpose of > this forum, please enlighten me. I had assumed that fellow > enthusiasts here would provide a rich source for challenging and > interesting experimental -or even mainstream- artists, but I've read > dozens of posts now which concern peripheral matters. > > I would be grateful to learn which artists the readers here find > stimulating and exciting in the field today. It doesn't matter how > esoteric or theoretical, nor how mundane. You all must be listening > to something. Or is this resource for musicians only? If that's the > case, then perhaps someone could point me to an alternative where > hungry ears can find good leads. Many thanks, This is a tough one. What music gets listened to, as opposed to what gets played and how, doesn't get raised as often here as one might like. It is true that this list is intended for practitioners of electronic music first and foremost, which might explain your confusion, but we don't try to exclude avid listeners from the dialogue. If you find the level of discussion not where you want to be reading, looking elsewhere might be a good idea, but simply formulating the question, as you do above, is bound to bring all sorts of folks out of the woodwork for a bit, getting you at least a partial answer to your need. Interestingly, I find that many players who are quite willing to discuss what gear they play and how they compose are suddenly reticent when it comes to admitting their influences; perhaps this is because of a worry that certain sorts of music are deemed more 'legitimate' than others by the readership...a perception which is possible, but unlikely. I admit to listening to a lot more of the 'slick' popular music formats than many of the people here, because I derive a lot of enjoyment from artists who can effectively push emotional buttons through their skill. You will find people here who listen mainly to academic emusic (or would have you think they do ;), and people who are more familiar with artists like Jean-Michel Jarre or Tangerine Dream that have broken into popularity to an extent. These days my essential listening list includes, in no particular order: _Esperanto_ by Elektric Music _Sacrifice_ by Gary Numan _Adagio for Strings_ by Samuel Barber _Slow Dance_ and _The Sky Road_ by Anthony Phillips _Discography_ by The Pet Shop Boys _Roll the Bones_ and _Hold Your Fire_ by Rush _Fantasia on a Theme by Tallis_ by Ralph Vaughan-Williams _ISDN_ by Future Sound of London _Building the Perfect Beast_ by Don Henley (esp. "Sunset Grill") _Silver Edition_ by Klaus Schulze _United States Live_ by Laurie Anderson _Omnivorous_ by Kala Din _Riding the Edge_ and _Crash Head_ by Mark Shreeve ...and the new releases I've put out on my label this year, of course. As for lists and newsgroups devoted more to the listener than the player, I can think of a few: alt.emusic in the newsgroup hierarchy, and there was (is?) a Space Music list being run by the gang at Electronic Dreams. I don't read these lists very much, I'll admit; there's something about the critical process there, including the criteria for choosing 'good' vs. 'ungood' music and the popular reactions to same, that makes me itch. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | EIRIKUR LOOKS AT LIFE #43: on the Moog Sonic Six atomic-city@netcom.com | "I believe that I have had more fun, but it was http://pd.net/atomic-city | a long time ago, and involved an attic, a us mail: p. o. box 81175 | mattress, Drambuie, a beautiful woman, and an pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | original Edison recording cylinder." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 01:14:01 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stefan Gruhl (CIP 92)" Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? In-Reply-To: <950412144621_80809860@aol.com> from "Bill Calvery" at Apr 12, 95 02:46:22 pm > > I'm trying to be as NON-CHATTY as I can, but I have to ask this question of > you guys: . . . does anyone have any interesting situations to share with > (me personally or) the list about interesting ways you've made $ using your > gear/talent/etc? this is a personal reply and I hope we'll keep it that way. All in all I am a student and a hobby musician. But if there is any cheap synth around in the US I usually ask some friends (I got a lot) if they need it and resell it with a little profit. Of course that's no way for you as your average prices aren't that high in Nashville I guess. :-) But if can get your hand on any 303 or 909, or anything else old analogue worth more than 500$, ask me. I'll probly be able to pay good money and we could share the profit. So keep my email. I public I prefer not to be seen as a brooker, because I am not really one. Music is my main hobby still, and that how I use the internet. If there is a chance to do a favour for several parties and I am the link, that's fine. CU steve -- * real electronic composers don't like their music be restricted * * to the physical limitations of the human hand - AH - a great list * * Stefan Gruhl * sngruhl@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de * * Monthly bonus sig: ************************************************ * "The course of true SOUND never did run smooth" * * freely taken from Midsummernights dream by Willy S. * ********************************************************************* * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 19:15:22 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: those wacky ackydemicks Comments: To: emusic-list Soon, I will surprise you all and ask a question about pentium processors. Actually, can anyone tell me where to go to buy a tuner component for my stereo that is NOT also a receiver? I have this big SONY amplifier, receiver thing. Clunky. All I want to do is get a tuner. I don't need an amplifier. Do they make these separate anymore? Abrupt shift. I think Mike pegged the general atmosphere of the academic snoots pretty well. This is my 2nd year here in the Ivy. At the end of the 1st, I received a letter from the department (as did all the grad stud.) telling me that I "tended to dominate class discussion" and was "overly aggressive in expressing my ideas." First, there was no such thing as class discussion. Everybody was too worried about the fallout Mike identified in his recent post. As for the aggressive part, I admit, sometimes I get overly demonstrative. But the temperature of my head is often cooler than is assumed. Probably not the best way to phrase that. Not above lampooning this environment, let me offer 2 correlaries (sp?) [see, i used to not care about spelling too much. and now i've turned into a crumbling heap fearing the lashes of webster, roget, and co.] When academics do not know what they're talking about, they usually react in one of two ways. 1) Over generalize. When someone starts talking about a composer, and you are called on to speak, say things like "that's a characteristically (composer's name) thing to do." 2) Surrender the intellectual ground and accuse them of being too intellectual. A classic 'turn the tables.' Usually, it works pretty well, but best of all when you're in mid-discussion. Generally, the academics here are completely taken aback. Left with no words, they simply tremble (visibly). This is partly due to fear of real-time communication without a clearly defined dominance-submissiveness axis, and partly due to the overdosing on caffeine that is rampant here. Personally, I'm from Eastern Washington state, and the only shaking I did was in the seat of a combine harvesting peas. Now, of course, I have a personal relationship with an Ethiopian blend. Why do some people order a double decaf espresso? Best to you all, Scott McCoy mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 21:27:44 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Friesen Subject: Re: poisoned academicians Hmmm. I'd like to throw something out (as opposed to up, right now) with respect to 'head music' or whatever you'd like to call it. A few years ago (back when I was living in less of a backwater), I had a chance to see a concert featuring works by Richard Boulanger and Max Mathews. Some of the stuff didn't do much for me. Of course, that used to be true of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Then I had to sing the piece (talk about weird: being 8000 miles from home, yet singing in German on Christmas Eve -- in the company of 120 Japanese townspeople, four soloists, and the Tokyo Philharmonic). A few years passed, and I rediscovered the piece. At first, it was still this assemblage of notes -- my not-so-classically inclined brain had a tough time working with the bigger (less repetitive) structures. In time, however, I started hearing all kinds of neat things. I started getting my head around those structures, and I became addicted. For more than six months, this piece of music (chiefly Karajan's 1984 all-digital recording) was in my CD carousel. On average, I listened to it once a day for those six months. My understanding and appreciation of that piece of music developed over the course of time. I had to invest both time and effort in order to reach a point where I felt I had a grasp (though hardly an _understanding_) of the piece. Now I'm not going to venture a guess as to whether we've got that kind of genius in our 20th century midst. But I will say that a single audition of a piece of music will not be sufficient for a fair evaluation of any 'great' work. I really try to give lots of music a reasonable chance. I'm willing to listen to some things several times in an effort to get the point. Sometimes, I have to come back to something a few years after that first exposure. Sometimes I find my original evaluation perfectly justified, and I have to conclude "I just don't get it". Sometimes my head just isn't where the composer needs it to be. Right now, for example, ABBA has just finished (VERY hip things happening with vocoders & arrangements) and I can say "I get it." Clifford Brown has started, and although I think I understand it, I can't say that it does an awful lot for me. I appreciate the technical mastery on the part of the players, but the music engages neither the hypothalamus nor the cerebral cortex. I my own defence, I'd hasten to add that Clifford Brown has been running on a daily basis for the last week: I'm giving him my best shot. The pith and substance: the libertarian position (if you can voice an opinion, you're a judge) should be constrained by a sense of fairness and a willingness to meet the composer halfway. 'Nuff sed. Michael Friesen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 21:55:23 CDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eugene Subject: Re: poisoned academicians In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 12 Apr 1995 21:27:44 -0300 from On Wed, 12 Apr 1995 21:27:44 -0300 Friesen said: >Right now, for example, ABBA has just finished (VERY hip things happening >with vocoders & arrangements) and I can say "I get it." Clifford Brown >has started, and although I think I understand it, I can't say that it >does an awful lot for me. I appreciate the technical mastery on the part >of the players, but the music engages neither the hypothalamus nor the >cerebral cortex. > Oh, PLEASE give Mr. Brown a chance. It took me awhile to receive transmissions on his wavelength as well, but I promise when you do you'll consider it time well spent. >I my own defence, I'd hasten to add that Clifford Brown has been running >on a daily basis for the last week: I'm giving him my best shot. Here's what might help: Get Manhattan Transfer's _Vocalese_ CD and play back to back versions of Clifford's "Joy Spring". Janis Siegel nails his solo note for note and really humanizes what is already a warm, evocative tone. Jon Hendricks wrote some beautiful lyrics to compliment the incredible melody. IMO, the music world was robbed when Clifford was prematurely taken away. > >Michael Friesen Eugene ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 14:37:48 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: International index... Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Hi emusicers, does anyone happen to know the e-mail address or fax number of the people\ who compile the International index of dissertations and musicological works in progress Cecil Adkins (ed.) ? I know it's late but I just found out about this. Thanks, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 14:54:00 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Hi Bill... >I live in Nashville and think I'm going to begin a home-spun demo studio to >bring in a few extra bucks on the side using my hard-earned, currently less >than profitable gear. Judging from the number of pro studios in Nashville, and Rodger's Law which states that For every pro studio in a reasonably-sized town, there are ten project or demo rooms you'd have to be providing something pretty special to get business. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 22:38:44 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: composers/audiences >mike most graciously posted: >that academicians deliberately foster a sense of ignorance and guilt in >their audiences to insulate themselves from criticism, . . . I don't think so, that may be a by-product of a general disconnection from more user friendly stuff, plus a conviction that they have *studied* the stuff that no one else listens to so they "understand it." If there is ignorance from the outside, that's to be expected - few like the music on first hearing and don't want to go further. However, a lot of the problem is a general lack of education - which may give some support to academia's claims (here, I mean by academia the increasingly fewer recalcitrant 12-toners with attitudes similar to the one's you mention). As for insulating themselves from criticism - they've already done that by choosing to work in a mode that alienates most people from the start, so the question is "What audience?". Jeff Talman jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 10:09:00 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: (d/dr) review Comments: To: eml@physics.american.edu i have two comments today, one as a followup to my own concert review, the other a metacomment on the state of commentary here. i am placing the latter later so as to allow readers to kill the message if they don't feel like listening to me kvetch. (ps, written after the fact: it actually goes on a little after that, too.) 1) actually, i didn't mean to imply (as i think metaly has suggested) that i felt in any way unqualified to judge the concert i saw. for good or ill, that's really just not in my nature. however, let me gum up the works a little by reproducing without editorial comment a note that i made to myself the evening after i wrote the original review (now does this strike you as evidence of an advanced case of oculo-omphalosis, or what?): while there is a lot to be said for the simple esthetic - for the pure enjoyability of a thing, that transmits itself with no need for any kind of framework - there for some time now has been at work a popular fallacy that art should by definition be accessible without reference or recourse to theoretical understanding, cultural literacy, essential forms and terms, etc. - that to do so to any degree is to by degree lessen a work's claim to being 'real' art. why should this one area, this millenia-old endeavor, among all others, not be allowed to have developed a community, a discourse, a language - and to expect that one might at least learn the rudiments of that langauge before entering into it? i think it is because art is in the position of public display, and the public feels that anything displayed ought to be answerable to all observers. thus does populism diminish the world. i lied. one editorial comment - i laid a version of this out in front of my emusic class, and we had a great time with it. sure-fire inflammatory theory, on which everyone is guaranteed to have an opinion. try it, if you're working with students who sleep in your class. 2) now i confess to being a little irritable. i don't mean to be obtuse, or elitist (although i may actually be both), but this 'talk about music' disturbs me. first, i laid out a brief taxonomy of just what one might mean by that, in the hopes that it might not be as narrowly defined as it often seems to be by people who make that demand. i am talking about music. the way i talk about music is not the only way to talk about music. i got tired of laundry lists a while ago. for some, there may still be some merit in them. if so, go to it... which brings me to: second, conversation is not a spectator sport, and a newsgroup is not a cocktail party. you don't have to wait for someone to take a breath between rants to get your two cents in. in this place, the ball is always in your court. * oh what the hell. there's no harm in keeping a listening/rec list going. here's mine this week: recent listening: esquivel - space age bachelor pad music (wacky stuff) future sound of london - lifeforms (wow, man) cecilia bartoli - mozart portraits (be still, my beating heart) shakespear's sister - hormonally yours (pop, pop) c+c music factory - gonna make you sweat (what was that about rhythmic drive?) camel - live album (can't get enough of brit artrock) conrad schnitzler - con (bzzt. twank.) kraftwerk - computer world (what's with these germans this month?) eno - pretty damn near the entire catalog (just way too damn much eno) mouth music - mo di (gotta go get that new album) various artists - burning for buddy (never liked buddy rich, actually, but is the tightest, hottest thing i've heard in years) outback - baka (and whatever the other album is. i'm still learning to cyclically breathe) peter gabriel - us, so, passion, plus from us, passion sources (in endless rotation) d'cuckoo - imoja (don't know if i actually like it, but i keep listening to it. in understand that the first album's got a great cover of 'no one receiving') youssou 'n dour - the guide (infectious) nope. no academic stuff here. by the way, i agree with whoever it was around here that said that the academy is pretty much never accepted by the public in its time. most of the the great or popular forms that i'm aware of had a built-in appeal, usually by evolving from dance forms, or by pandering to specific patrons (a la handel). with of course, the glaring exception of stravinsky. but i think starting a riot with a musical premier is pretty good, too. <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 10:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen ISE Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? In-Reply-To: <950412144621_80809860@aol.com> from "Bill Calvery" at Apr 12, 95 02:46:22 pm > I'm trying to be as NON-CHATTY as I can, but I have to ask this question of > you guys: . . . does anyone have any interesting situations to share with > (me personally or) the list about interesting ways you've made $ using your > gear/talent/etc? > > I live in Nashville and think I'm going to begin a home-spun demo studio to > bring in a few extra bucks on the side using my hard-earned, currently less > than profitable gear. Let's jog our imaginations and help each other shake > the money tree. After all, I'm sure most of us are on this list to better > ourselves in some way--> and profit=better. Ever try hiring yourself out to multimedia/video game producers. There's a lot of the programmers out there, people who just love the whole business of multimedia and video games. They can program, but when it comes to doing the artwork, soundeffects and music, they often get some outside people. Especially video games are in high demand for sound effects and music, where music ranges from homespun MOD-type engines to General MIDI compliant soundtracks. Having a homestudio is ideal for creating the sounds and scores to fit. I wouldn't really bother with the big publishing houses, but look more for local people starting out in the business. -- Arne F. Claassen On the Web: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The usual issues of societally-induced female technophobia are always raised [in discussions about the lack of female emusicians], but I have to admit that the possibility of trapping to extinction never came up" (mike metlay) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 08:48:05 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? In-Reply-To: <9504122138.AA16510@mx6.msfc.nasa.gov> from "Kevan L. Moore" at Apr 12, 95 04:38:24 pm Kevan L. Moore writes-- > >well, this was an example of how NOT to make money. >i'd be interested in hearing anyone else's wedding horror stories >of unappreciation and similar philistine pig-ignorance. :-) Heh. My blushing bride was a coloratura soprano for the Radcliffe Choral Society the year they came in second by about two points to the Bulgarian Radio/TV Women's Choir (La Mystere Des Voix Bulgares) in an international choral competition, and I was farily well-established in the electronic music scene; what that meant was that the huge majority of the people at our wedding (almost all of our friends and a surprisingly large chunk of both families) were musically accomplished and very demanding. We hired a very, VERY good jazz/rock combo, with male and female vocalists doubling on synths and flute, a bassist, guitarist, drummer and sax player. We paid them a lot of money, and they played hard all night to appreciative audiences. The bandleader later came up to me and commented on how many of the guests were commenting him on his charts and making suggestions for arrangements. :) mike (five years in may) -- mike metlay * atomic city | EIRIKUR LOOKS AT LIFE #43: on the Moog Sonic Six atomic-city@netcom.com | "I believe that I have had more fun, but it was http://pd.net/atomic-city | a long time ago, and involved an attic, a us mail: p. o. box 81175 | mattress, Drambuie, a beautiful woman, and an pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | original Edison recording cylinder." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:19:04 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Re: those wacky ackydemicks >>Soon, I will surprise you all and ask a question about pentium processors. Actually, can anyone tell me where to go to buy a tuner component for my stereo that is NOT also a receiver? I have this big SONY amplifier, receiver thing. Clunky. All I want to do is get a tuner. I don't need an amplifier. Do they make these separate anymore?<< Pawn shops are a great source for these kinds of things. I see tuners (new ones!!) all the time. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Very Current Analog Has anyone kept up with Erasure's Vince Clarke? What is he working on now? I had heard that Erasure had a new album due by this summer. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:20:20 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Re: those wacky ackydemicks >>Why do some people order a double decaf espresso?<< They are fools. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:27:54 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Trent Hare 556-7245 (GD.Flagstaff 520)" Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? With my band on hold for right now, while we come up some new stuff, we decided to sell our services to other bands. We figured we could help some local bands with a good deal and make a little extra cash for more band toys. All we do is set up out PA equipment (that's sitting idle in the storage room while we get our act together) and mix for them. It's good experience for us and it's actually pretty fun. I guess it could also give you an excuse for buying your own PA equipment so you don't have to rent or pay for people like us. =:) Just something to think about, thare ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:40:44 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "S.D.Arrowood" Subject: casio address Somebody was asking about an address for Casio- as of 9/93, it's 570 Mount Pleasant Ave. Dover, NJ 07801 (201) 361-5400 Fax: (201) 361-3819 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 13:09:54 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Perplexed. In-Reply-To: <199504122308.QAA15059@netcom23.netcom.com> from "atomic city" at Apr 12, 95 04:08:26 pm > I would be grateful to learn which artists the readers here find > stimulating and exciting in the field today. It doesn't matter how > esoteric or theoretical, nor how mundane. You all must be listening > to something. Or is this resource for musicians only? If that's the > case, then perhaps someone could point me to an alternative where > hungry ears can find good leads. Many thanks... Current hot listening: Laurie Anderson - _Big Science_, _Strange Angels_, _The Ugly One With The Jewels_: minimal equipment/maximal effect Zappa - _Roxy and Elsewhere_, _Waka/Jawaka_, and uh, the one with "Inca Roads" and "San Ber'dino": ability and creativity Terry Riley - _The Harp of New Albion_: skill, alternate tunings John Zorn - _Spillane_: attention deficit disorder for jazz combo Angelo Badalamenti - _Twin Peaks_ and _Fire Walk With Me_: appeals to a certain darkness in my soul Lyle Mays/Pat Metheny - _The First Circle_, _As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls_, _Street Dreams_ (solo Mays): lyrical and melodic, technical brilliance combined with emotional appeal --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 13:35:46 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: ... pause for breath Comments: To: eml@physics.american.edu ok. where do i find the MAX faq? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 11:09:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: Quote about documentation ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Quote about documentation > >Documentation is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and >when it is bad, it is better than nothing. > -- Dick Brandon > >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from atl.com by mail.ucsd.edu; id JAA12866 sendmail 8.6.11/UCSD-2.2-s >Received: by atl.com (4.1/3.1.090690-) id AA19732; Thu, 13 Apr 95 09:51:56 PDT >Received: from [149.59.9.210] (mcmikeh) by solitude.atl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA >Message-Id: <9504131648.AA19439@solitude.atl.com> >Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:56:42 -0800 >To: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.ucsd.edu, botten@rohan.sdsu.edu >From: mikeh@atl.com (Michael J. Howell) >X-Sender: mikeh@solitude >Subject: Quote about documentation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 11:40:03 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Randy Budnikas Organization: Biola University Subject: DAT Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu I'm looking for a new or used Tascam DA30mkII or its predecessor (the DA30mk?), or a new or used Panasonic SV-3700. Is anyone selling one of these, or does anyone know where to get one cheap? Thanks in advance, Randy Budnikas Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 16:55:46 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Laurie Anderson Concert review (DC, 4/11) Comments: To: emusic-l I'm not going to attempt to cover this in detail, simply because so much was going on (and in semi-darkness) that I can't really tell you what all was going on. Basic stage setup had a raised, T-shaped platform, running left-right, with the "tail" of the T pointing away from the audience. A track ran along the arms of the T - three screens were moved int and out along it. Video images were projected on these three screens alone during the first half. A sphere and a cube covered with cyclorama cloth were lowered from above during the second half and two more video projectors were used on those. Music was by turns heavy and industrial (sections reminding me very strongly of some of the stuff recorded by Team Metlay), smooth and slow-moving. At times, it dropped out completely. LA played a lot of violin, using a glissandoed open-fifths motif repeatedly as a thematic link. She only used one keyboard, which had the back taped over so I couldn't tell what it was. She made quite a number of references to older material, mostly as spoken quotes, rather than as songs. Speaking from the standpoint of compositional structure, the show as a whole was very nearly in classical sonata-allegro form (with variations). The material first used at the beginning was reprised near the end; the ideas presented at the start were developed both musically and by monologues; and the ending reprised the musical ideas from the beginning, with a tremendous visual and musical coda. A lot of the material came from "Stories from the Nerve Bible", along with new stuff from "Bright Red". I highly recommend the first one (I don't have the second one yet) as a very good tutorial on getting effective live music from a minimum of equipment. I'll gloss over the visual effects other than to say they were stunning and fit very well with the music. She did use the "synth suit", which has triggers embedded in it. It seemed that there was one in the palm of each hand, and one on the chest. This allowed her to use large theatrical gestures and trigger sounds precisely at points in the motions. Very nice. Nick's dancers would love it. Various other things - an endoscope camera mounted on her violin bow, giving you a violin's-eye view of her playing on one of the screens; the neon bow, the neon mike stand; an absolutely stunning effect created with a green laser, fog machines, and the persistence of vision. She is an effective but not virtuoso keyboard player, a solid vocalist, an excellent violinist, and a remarkable storyteller - a master of the appropriate ... pause. If you still have a chance to see her on this tour, I highly recommend it. It's a very enjoyable concert and an inspiring experience. ---- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 14:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ken Pendergrass Subject: Paul Shaeffer's Setup New subcriber to the list has a burning question: Does anyone know what kind of setup Paul Schaeffer (sp) has on the Letterman Show? I can pick out his signature B3, but that's it. Thanks *Ken* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 08:34:41 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Late April Fooling Around Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu > mike metlay * atomic city | EIRIKUR LOOKS AT LIFE #43: on the Moog Sonic Six > atomic-city@netcom.com | "I believe that I have had more fun, but it was > http://pd.net/atomic-city | a long time ago, and involved an attic, a > us mail: p. o. box 81175 | mattress, Drambuie, a beautiful woman, and an > pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | original Edison recording cylinder." Back on April 1, I would have identified that cylinder as the recording of Franz Liszt playing the piano. But today is the 13th, so I won't. ;-) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 14:12:00 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk." Organization: Main Library of University Subject: Re: International index... Comments: To: EMUSIC-L%LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU@plearn.edu.pl You can ask the editors of the "RILM abstracts" in New York. For example you can ask Adam O'Connor from their staff. His address is: aoc@cunyvms1.gc,cuny.edu Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk Poland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 09:30:59 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: philistine pig-ignorance Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Kevan said: > i've played 36 weddings (always as an aside), and turned down about a dozen. > what i've discovered is that people don't know the difference between a > full-blown symphony's worth of computerized synth orchestration and a single, > out-of-tune spinet. Yes, I know what you mean. Back in Ohio, I naively figured that my duo would be hot, hot, hot! Why? Because of my sequences making us sound like a whole band and studio recordings. But I was wrong. Nobody cared or understood the skill, care, love, and just plain hard work we went through to prepare sequences, our live parts, and playing them in sync. We could have gotten more of a reaction by lip syncing to a cassette fraught with dropouts through a loud, distorted PA with burned out tweeters, limiting frequency responce to 8kHz. Back in November, my current band played its best gig to date. But when we finished a Genesis medley ("In that Quiet Earth" and "Afterglow" from _Wind_and_Wuthering_), all we got was two or three people clapping half heartedly at best. Granted, the first song is a complex instrumental and the second song has a slow tempo, which is sort of backwards thinking since it is in the climax position of that medley. But we were hoping for more of a reaction from an audience that came to hear a progressive band. > i'd be interested in hearing anyone else's wedding horror stories > of unappreciation and similar philistine pig-ignorance. :-) We hate playing the local clubs. Club owners are barely turning a profit, so they gyp you by paying you less than promised and don't provide the floor space required. Three sheets to the wind patrons demand we play "Free Bird" despite our progressive format and lack of rehearsal on that number. ("Oh, you can fake it!") My gear, clothes, and I smell like an ash tray by the end of the gig, and I'm not the only band member in need of a roadie due to physical ailments. (But I have to perform and I have to try to create music. The alternative is to shrivel up and die.) I have the utmost respect for Mike for doing Atomic City and for the artists on that label. They have the chutzpa to put out product which is not exactly mainstream. By definition and by virtue of the pig-ignorant philistine majority, AC's target audience is limited indeed. (I've bought or ordered the entire catalog. But I'm only one person.) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 17:25:18 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Randy Budnikas Organization: Biola University Subject: Re(2): Fair price Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu >How experienced are you at this? I agree with Bill Fox that $40 is >reasonable >for this work, but if you haven't done it very much you may have to do >some small battles learning a few things: In this case you can charge >$40/hr. and lie about your hours (really, just estimate the hard core >stuff and not figure in mucking around); or, charge a different rate. >Again $40 is fair and reasonable. If you are trying to gain more work, >however, consider offering your services at a 'reduced rate' (tell >the client that) and charge the reduced rate for the first or first >several jobs. If the client likes your work and is comfortable >working with you, she/he'll pay full fare when time comes. I know >a video producer who does this and I've done it and not regretted it. My employer said that a person making $40 an hour is like a person making $80,000 a year. He said I'm 22 and shouldn't be making that much money out of the starting blocks. I kind of agree with him. He's a great connection for me, so I don't want to lose him. I agreed that $80 a tune would be a fair price (which translates to around $15 an hour). As I prove myself, people will be willing to pay more for my services. I don't want to be converting MIDI files all my life either. This gig is a doorway into composing original tunes for this guy, so I'll be patient and humbly accept the $15 an hour. Thanks for your input though. Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 10:03:13 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Enricco Subject: Re: #2(2) EMUSIC-L Digest - 1... Michael, In response to your statement about Clifford Brown, I myself am a Jazz trumpet player and I can see where you are coming from with just listening to a master at work and trying to understand it all.. Another way to "get into the music" that helped for me is to get a transcription of his playing,see what he does, and then maybe play it using a synth and some chordal backgrounds. Not only do you see the complexity and harmonic sophistication of the lines but in a modern context. It might be easier then to digest and maybe even emulate in some of your solos if you are a synth soloist. Hope this helps. John Enricco Trpt@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 18:11:42 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Rocky Mullin Subject: Re: philistine pig-ignorance Yes, I know what you mean. Back in Ohio, I naively figured that my duo would be hot, hot, hot! Why? Because of my sequences making us sound like a whole band and studio recordings. But I was wrong. Nobody cared or understood the skill, care, love, and just plain hard work we went through to prepare sequences, our live parts, and playing them in sync. We could have gotten more of a reaction by lip syncing to a cassette fraught with dropouts through a loud, distorted PA with burned out tweeters, limiting frequency responce to 8kHz. i dunno bill, to me sequenced digital synthesis, with live elements or not, has always sounded flat. recordings of such can be ok, but due largely to alot of studio effects and mastering. $.02 /\ c /\ a /\ l /\ i /\ b /\ a /\ n /\ rocky mullin /__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\____/__\ organic online \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / san francisco \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ http://wbl.com/~caliban splitting lanes on the information superhighway From LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU Wed Jan 17 18:45:13 1996 Received: from atlanta.american.edu (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA06365 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:45:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA184571 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:16:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199601172316.SAA184571@atlanta.american.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:16:35 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b)" Subject: File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9504C" To: Joe McMahon Status: O ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:53:43 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Re(2): Fair price In-Reply-To: <704685.ensmtp@bubbs.biola.edu> from "Randy Budnikas" at Apr 13, 95 05:25:18 pm > My employer said that a person making $40 an hour is like a person making > $80,000 a year. He said I'm 22 and shouldn't be making that much money out of > the starting blocks. He's handing you an invalid argument. Has he indeed *given* you a year's worth of work? > I kind of agree with him. He's a great connection for > me, so I don't want to lose him. I agreed that $80 a tune would be a fair > price (which translates to around $15 an hour). So your bill, as it stands, would have been about $200 per tune instead of $80. How long are these, anyway? You figure 5-6 hours is enough time? I would definitely in the future *not* let him talk me into a fixed-price contract. There's always one hitch that will cost you extra time, which translates to your employer getting the benefit of your time essentially for free. Next time, if he's pleased with the results, break it down for him: $15 an hour, which is what you effectively charged him last time. This way, he gets a good price, but you don't get shafted if there's a problem that takes you a lot of extra time to fix. --- Joe M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 20:22:39 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Knight Subject: inappropriate question does anyone out there know the principles behind the standard ( non chromatic ) mouth organ ? i have one in D, and i'd like to know what the individual notes are, and any suggestions as to how these relate to music theory in general. since this question is not directly related to this list, i apologise for being off topic, and, if anyone has the time to answer me, perhaps it's best to reply directly.. thanks in advance and all that. and i still say robert moog is god, or at least that he deserves a lot more recognition in this mondo tech world than he gets. james knight entomology department byte designs limited james@byted.com tel:604/534-0722 fax:604/534-2601 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 23:33:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Cranwell Subject: Re: Re(2): Fair price Your employer is telling you what he wants you to hear. If you are working as an independent, you need to figure in your non productive time as well as business expenses. If you want to take in 80K per year in profits , you need to charge the equivalent of about $180k per year ( If you assume you have normal business expenses and spend only 50% of your time billing). (Thats $90 per hour). Your employer is also demonstrating age discrimination. Your pay should be based on your ability, not your age. I have been an independent consultant (3 years) after retiring from IBM after 30 years. I learned early, dont undercharge. If you undercharge, you will be treated like a trash collector, not a professional. Find out what you are worth and ask for it. The only thing that should determine your price is your ability, the ability of your client to afford your services and other competition. Pete Cranwell Cranwell & Associates. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:10:58 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: Paul Shaeffer's Setup In-Reply-To: from "Ken Pendergrass" at Apr 13, 95 02:31:10 pm Ken Pendergrass writes-- > >New subcriber to the list has a burning question: > >Does anyone know what kind of setup Paul Schaeffer (sp) has on the >Letterman Show? I can pick out his signature B3, but that's it. Hammond B-3, grand piano, Oberheim OB-8 analog polysynth, and Kurzweil 250 digital keyboard (possibly recently upgraded to a K2000?). That's it, and aside from the Kurzweil it hasn't changed in well over a decade. In February of 1983 I was in NYC to attend the opening of Laurie Anderson's _United States_ at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. On a free afternoon during the trip, I took my girlfriend over to 48th Street to drool at all the new keyboards Manny's and Sam Ash had on display. In Sam Ash, we were looking over an OB-8 they had on display; Emilysue had never seen a polysynth before, and I was explaining its features to her when I suddenly felt someone leaning over my shoulder. I turned, and found myself face to face with Paul Shaffer, who was listening to my explanation with great interest. I said, "Oh! Hi. Have I made any drastic mistakes?" He smiled and replied, "Nah, you're doing great," and walked off to look at the new Kurzweil 250 at the back of the store. I then had to explain to Emilysue who he was. :) mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:19:44 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: composers/audiences Comments: To: EMUSIC-L In-Reply-To: <2489319390.665880@tunanet.tunanet.com> from "jetman" at Apr 12, 95 10:38:44 pm jetman writes-- > >>mike most graciously posted: > >>that academicians deliberately foster a sense of ignorance and guilt in >>their audiences to insulate themselves from criticism, . . . > >I don't think so, that may be a by-product of a general disconnection from >more user friendly stuff, plus a conviction that they have *studied* the >stuff that no one else listens to so they "understand it." If there is >ignorance from the outside, that's to be expected - few like the music on >first hearing and don't want to go further. However, a lot of the problem is >a general lack of education - which may give some support to academia's >claims (here, I mean by academia the increasingly fewer recalcitrant >12-toners with attitudes similar to the one's you mention). > >As for insulating themselves from criticism - they've already done that by >choosing to work in a mode that alienates most people from the start, so the >question is "What audience?". Yeah, I guess. I think at this stage my overwhelming emotion toward them is one of pity. I may be a philistine, but at least people can listen to my music and say "I like this" or "I hate this" rather than "Duh." Most of the time, that is. ;) mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:32:41 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: those wacky ackydemicks In-Reply-To: from "L Mccoy" at Apr 12, 95 07:15:22 pm L Mccoy writes-- > >I think Mike pegged the general atmosphere of the academic snoots pretty >well. This is my 2nd year here in the Ivy. At the end of the 1st, I >received a letter from the department (as did all the grad stud.) telling >me that I "tended to dominate class discussion" and was "overly >aggressive in expressing my ideas." >First, there was no such thing as class discussion. Everybody was too >worried about the fallout Mike identified in his recent post. This is so sad...but not surprising, which may be saddest of all, actually. I am now beginning to look once more at Robert Weinstock's controversial actions at Oberlin and the stink they raised, and wonder if he might not have had the right modus for the wrong motivations. >As for the aggressive part, I admit, sometimes I get overly >demonstrative. But the temperature of my head is often cooler than is >assumed. Probably not the best way to phrase that. Oh, I dunno, someone will make a good .sig file out of it...:) >When academics do not know what they're talking about, they usually react in >one of two ways. > >1) Over generalize. When someone starts talking about a composer, and >you are called on to speak, say things like "that's a characteristically >(composer's name) thing to do." Excuse me, I have to go to the Men's Room. I think I may have just wet myself from laughing. I have seen every single EM teacher I've ever studied under or met in any setting at all use this dodge. No exceptions. >2) Surrender the intellectual ground and accuse them of being too >intellectual. A classic 'turn the tables.' Usually, it works pretty >well, but best of all when you're in mid-discussion. Generally, the >academics here are completely taken aback. Left with no words, they >simply tremble (visibly). This is partly due to fear of real-time >communication without a clearly defined dominance-submissiveness axis, This, on the other hand, always makes me itch. Simply ending an argument by saying "you're too intellectual" smacks of certain don't-worry-be- stupid political/social philosophies that have caused some considerable discomfort in the past. But maybe that's just me. I must be weird, I don't drink coffee. mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 08:09:16 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ned Kartchner Subject: Re: Music copywrights A recent string has discussed copyrights and the length of time which they are legally in effect. I have had questions about the legal aspects of music for many years, maybe some of you can answer. Like many of you, as a musician, I hear a piece and I begin to play it. I hardly ever buy the sheet music for the piece, I just work up my own arrangement in my head and seldom play it the same way twice. If the piece is good it is added to the play list and as a member of a band, which has been together for 15 years, we use that piece to earn money with. We never pay anyone, ASCAP, BMI or the composer for the music. In the 30 years I have been playing I have never been concerned about a music cop coming up to me at a gig and asking if I have legal rights to play a piece nor do I have a list of the dates of various copyrights or even who wrote a piece, the music or the lyrics. Sometimes we hear of a legal battle over music ownership. A recient one was between Dolly Parton and a music writer. Another was because of the movie "Chariots of Fire" and the song, "Happy Birthday To You." I could be mistaken about these things, but if so fill in these examples with some others. My questions are: What parts of music are protected? If a writer puts ten measures of sounds together and writes that down, does he/she have rights over these sounds that legally no others may use without paying? Are the lyrics protected separate from the music? Can a person, not the owner of a piece of music, legally use the music and lyrics for personal gain and not pay the owner. If one wishes to pay, how much and who do you pay? My arrangement of a musical piece is never like the origional, so if I play a similar piece of music with the identical name, am I still legally obligated to pay the owner? If so, how much of a piece can be used? I noticed in a recient TV ad, Johnny Cash sang part of the "Happy Birthday Song" but just a very few measures. There are many more questions along this similar vain. Have any of you ever been challanged for playing copyrighted music? Ned Kartchner nedk@serv39.c29cae.chinalake.navy.mil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:37:03 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: poisoned academicians In-Reply-To: from "Friesen" at Apr 12, 95 09:27:44 pm Friesen writes-- > >The pith and substance: the libertarian position (if you can voice an >opinion, you're a judge) should be constrained by a sense of fairness and >a willingness to meet the composer halfway. Oh, I dunno. I kinda like music that chases after you and drags you out of your hole kicking and screaming and MAKES you listen to it, as opposed to music that sort of stands at the entrance and whines, "Hey! You in there! I'm important and significant and you better pay attention to me! Please?" A good example of the former: Lou Reed's _Metal Machine Music_. A good example of the latter: anything by Fiorella Terenzi. mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:45:11 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: philistine pig-ignorance In-Reply-To: <9504131330.AA25448@acropolis> from "william.b.fox" at Apr 13, 95 09:30:59 am william.b.fox writes-- > >I have the utmost respect for Mike for doing Atomic City and for the >artists on that label. They have the chutzpa to put out product which >is not exactly mainstream. By definition and by virtue of the >pig-ignorant philistine majority, AC's target audience is limited >indeed. (I've bought or ordered the entire catalog. But I'm only one >person.) We're poor as churchmice at this point, but I appreciate what exposure I get and what enthusiasm does filter back to me. I figure we'll get out to the audience we want to reach, given patience and perserverance. mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 09:51:10 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: atomic city Subject: Re: (d/dr) review In-Reply-To: <0098ED0F.0F9476A0.15083@physics.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Apr 13, 95 10:09:00 am Eric Harnden writes-- > >1) actually, i didn't mean to imply (as i think metaly has suggested) that >i felt in any way unqualified to judge the concert i saw. Did I? I think my actual implication was that you were MEANT to feel that way, not that you did. >while there is a lot to be said for the simple esthetic - for the pure >enjoyability of a thing, that transmits itself with no need for any kind >of framework - there for some time now has been at work a popular fallacy >that art should by definition be accessible without reference or recourse >to theoretical understanding, cultural literacy, essential forms and terms, >etc. - that to do so to any degree is to by degree lessen a work's claim >to being 'real' art. why should this one area, this millenia-old endeavor, >among all others, not be allowed to have developed a community, a discourse, >a language - and to expect that one might at least learn the rudiments of >that langauge before entering into it? i think it is because art is in the >position of public display, and the public feels that anything displayed >ought to be answerable to all observers. thus does populism diminish the >world. > >i lied. one editorial comment - i laid a version of this out in front of >my emusic class, and we had a great time with it. sure-fire inflammatory >theory, on which everyone is guaranteed to have an opinion. try it, if >you're working with students who sleep in your class. I'll bet. This harks back to the good old argument of "you do/do not have to know the rules before you break them".... >2) now i confess to being a little irritable. i don't mean to be obtuse, >or elitist (although i may actually be both), but this 'talk about music' >disturbs me. first, i laid out a brief taxonomy of just what one might >mean by that, in the hopes that it might not be as narrowly defined as it >often seems to be by people who make that demand. i am talking about music. >the way i talk about music is not the only way to talk about music. i got >tired of laundry lists a while ago. for some, there may still be some >merit in them. if so, go to it... which brings me to: second, conversation >is not a spectator sport, and a newsgroup is not a cocktail party. you don't >have to wait for someone to take a breath between rants to get your two cents >in. in this place, the ball is always in your court. * oh what the hell. Spoken like an ex-moderator of EMUSIC-L, my friend. :) BTW, your listening list isn't that far from mine, but I don't have the Equivel yet (can't get it in Tallahassee) and I'd substitute _Ballistic_ for _Lifeforms_...it's simply a better album. The C+C is nice, tho. >eno - pretty damn near the entire catalog (just way too damn much eno) Is there such a thang? >. but i think starting a riot with a musical premier is pretty >good, too. Still trolling for .sig fodder, eh? :) mike -- Dave Olson and Chris Sattinger on mixer preamp overload: DO: do those little red lights mean that satan is coming to fry my channels? CS: That depends what drove you to distort your sound in the first place. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 13:13:01 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Patrick Robinson Subject: Re: Paul Shaeffer's Setup Metlay SEZ: > Ken Pendergrass writes-- > > > >New subcriber to the list has a burning question: > > > >Does anyone know what kind of setup Paul Schaeffer (sp) has on the > >Letterman Show? I can pick out his signature B3, but that's it. > > Hammond B-3, grand piano, Oberheim OB-8 analog polysynth, and Kurzweil > 250 digital keyboard (possibly recently upgraded to a K2000?). That's > it, and aside from the Kurzweil it hasn't changed in well over a decade. I'm sure I've seen a JD-800 in the pile, recently, and I thought the Oberheim was an OB-Xa? I thought that's what I saw on the back of it. On the other hand, who knows *what* I saw.... --- Patrick Robinson Extension Information Systems, Virginia Tech pgr@ramandu.ext.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 08:41:28 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: philistine pig-ignorance Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Rocky Mullin responds about my sequenced duo story: > i dunno bill, to me sequenced digital synthesis, > with live elements or not, has always sounded > flat. recordings of such can be ok, but due > largely to alot of studio effects and mastering. > > $.02 In all the other cases of local singles and duos using "sequences" as support, I'd have to agree with you, Rocky. But for me, it was a case of considering their sequencing abilities to be poor to non-existant. Drum machines programmed from the non-velocity sensitive front panel just don't cut it with me; especially when they're programmed with something that is impossible for a drummer to do. (A drummer cannot hit the kick, snare, hihat, ride, and crash cymbals all at one time. At least not without help or growing extra limbs!) My sequence of "Here Comes the Sun" would blow you away (I hope). Then again, you may have heard people do what I've done at an equal or greater skill level and still feel that it sounds flat. I guess we'll never know because my duo is history and I may never hear the acts you've heard because you're on the west coast and I'm on the east. Your $.02 remains valid. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 12:01:15 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: inappropriate question Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu James Knight asks: > does anyone out there know the principles behind the standard ( non > chromatic ) mouth organ ? i have one in D, and i'd like to know what > the individual notes are, and any suggestions as to how these relate > to music theory in general. Ever play one? You get the major scale. So your D harmonica is D major, i.e. D E F# G A B C# D. It can also be in the relative minor key of B minor. Same notes, but start and end on B instead of D. I won't go into the other modes in any great detail here. Suffice it to say that there are seven, one for each note in the scale. Pick a note, start there, and play the above listed notes until you reach the pitch that is an octave higher than the one where you started. Example: Starting on F#, your scale on your D harmonica yields: F# G A B C# D E F#. Any good music reference book will tell you the names of the modes. That is left to the interested reader as an exercise. (In other words, I FORGOT 'em!) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:48:27 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Fair price Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Addendum to my last post on the Fair Price subject: Randy said: > ... He's a great connection for > me, so I don't want to lose him. ... > ... This gig is a doorway into composing original > tunes for this guy, so I'll be patient and humbly accept the $15 an hour. If the employer is a good contact, you may gamble some earnings now in return for better paying work in the future. But it is a gamble. (Unless you have an agreement in contract form?) Don't under value your services and don't undercut your competition by too much just to get work. You were wise to ask what rate to charge. Can you find out what other people charge who are doing the same work? (I'm not doing this kind of work so you are wise to take what I say with a few grains of salt.) In the end, you have to follow your own conscience. The bottom line is, don't let anybody take advantage of you. (How much does a lawyer or a plumber cost? (-; ) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:29:56 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Fair price Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Joe points out to Randy: > > My employer said that a person making $40 an hour is like a person > > making $80,000 a year. He said I'm 22 and shouldn't be making that > > much money out of the starting blocks. > > He's handing you an invalid argument. Has he indeed *given* you a year's > worth of work? At $40/hr x 40hrs/wk x 50wks/yr that is indeed $80,000/yr. But as Joe points out, that assumes that the 40hrs/wk and 50wks/yr are correct. For somebody who contracts their services piecemeal, these time frames are not guaranteed nor are any benefits paid. If the employer wants to pay $20/hr, for example, let them hire you full time and pay social security, unemployment tax, FICA, insurance, etc. and pay for your medical, dental, and vision care. That still comes to $80,000/yr but he has the administrative hassle of having an employee instead of an independent contractor. Another point, what does your age have to do with your earning potential? By that line of thinking, Bill Gates has no right to be as rich as he is! Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:14:24 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Music copyrights Comments: To: emusic-l@american.edu Ned wonders: > We never pay anyone, ASCAP, BMI or the composer for the music. In > the 30 years I have been playing I have never been concerned about > a music cop coming up to me at a gig and asking if I have legal > rights to play a piece nor do I have a list of the dates of various > copyrights or even who wrote a piece, the music or the lyrics. As long as you're at the bottom of the musical performance food chain, you don't have to worry about paying royalties. The clubs, bars, hotels, etc., where you play take care of that. The royalty police (BMI, ASCAP, SEASAC) regularly collect from these venues. > What parts of music are protected? If a writer puts ten measures of sounds > together and writes that down, does he/she have rights over these sounds that > legally no others may use without paying? > Are the lyrics protected separate from the music? Music or music with lyrics are protected if copyrighted as music. Words alone do not a song make and must be protected as literature. You'll have to define for me what you mean by "sounds" before I attempt explaining the rest. Generally, it's the notes that make a musical composition for copyright purposes. > Can a person, not the owner of a piece of music, legally use the music and > lyrics for personal gain and not pay the owner. In principle, no. But if you had to pay, you wouldn't be able to afford to play on what club owners are willing to pay (if they bother to pay you that much, if at all). So in practice, you don't have to pay until you record or play stadiums. > If one wishes to pay, how much and who do you pay? BMI, ASCAP, etc. You'll have to ask them how much. But don't bother. They'll be happy to take your money! Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 19:20:13 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: $ making ideas anyone? >--> and profit=better. Why does profit mean we are bettering ourselves? Fr'instance, I consider I did a bit of bettering myself earlier this week by surviving a two day intensive Capoeira workshop, especially at my age. There was certainly no profit, apart from the dubious skill of being able to cartwheel and then deliver flying kicks; but it's a form of betterment in any case. Similarly, I've done a fair amount of composition and live performance over the last few years, none of which was profitable in any real sense. There are easier ways of making money, but I rejected them because they didn't better me... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Gonna go down town, kill some spammers." - Joe McMahon. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:30:02 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: RonG225zt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: those wacky ackydemicks >This is so sad...but not surprising, which may be saddest of >all, actually. I am now beginning to look once more at Robert >Weinstock's controversial actions at Oberlin and the stink >they raised, and wonder if he might not have had the right >modus for the wrong motivations. I missed this. Could you please explain? Ron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Vernon Subject: Re: composers/audiences After having watched the discussion on "poisoned academicians" and "composers/audiences" for several days, I must say that it reminds me greatly of the "Great Books" debate which has been flitted around in the Political Correctness discussion circles. Mortimer Adler states that a good book is one which must be read more than once. With new music, or even older "academic" music, the listener cannot be expected to assimilate the net worth of a piece of music in one, or even two or three sittings. Were you able to read the message from our friend who wrote about a CD which "sat in his carousel" for months? Only after living with the work was he able to apprecia te it for its quality. The problem (a nice one to have, but a problem nonetheless) is music is temporal, happening in time. We must remember that it is the only art form of its kind, and that to immerse oneself in it means to listen to it over and over. Unlike a painting, we cannot stand before it for hours and ponder its meaning. We must grasp its meaning (for ourselves only, perhaps) as we go along, receiving more each time it passes. Contemporary audiences do not understand new music because it exists so far outside the boundaries of the audiences' experience. Who is to blame for this? No one. It is a problem which will always exist, and we should not lay blame. But we should all attempt to stop dismissing music because we do not "like" the first hearing of it, or it doesn't "do anything" for us. Allow it to exist, for its own sake. Good luck! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 01:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Black Subject: Fair price? =My employer said that a person making $40 an hour is like a person making =$80,000 a year. He said I'm 22 and shouldn't be making that much money out of =the starting blocks. I kind of agree with him. He's a great connection for =me, so I don't want to lose him. I agreed that $80 a tune would be a fair =price (which translates to around $15 an hour). As I prove myself, people =will be willing to pay more for my services. I don't want to be converting =MIDI files all my life either. This gig is a doorway into composing original =tunes for this guy, so I'll be patient and humbly accept the $15 an hour. =Thanks for your input though. =Randy_Budnikas@bubbs.biola.edu At one point,I was scared to charge alot for my services. I would do it for food money, so why charge a bunch? I HAVE LEARNED. A 40/hr rate is LOW for that work. You are saving this guy money, by saving him time. If he were to do it himself, he would not be writing, or whatever he does. If you know the gig now, you will only get faster and your value will go up, but your money will not. Also, don't forget, when employees work for a corporation, the company pays as much as 60% above that employee's salary for all sorts of benefits (insurance, etc.) Not to mention the increased cost of self-employed health insurance, and the extra expense of SE Taxes. Your employer pays 7.5% when they withold. As a contractor, you pay it. Not to mention the $80000/yr number assumes you are working a 40 hour work week. Are you? Will you be eligible for unemployment benefits if this guy moves or dies or fires you? No. A misconception: I will work for a while at a low rate to get in good with whoever. Then I will make more. WRONG. You will never be payed anymore, unless you ask for it. And if you do a good job now, how will you justify the increased expense to a client later when his product is the same? If you work in this business, demand your worth based on the special & valuable service you provide, not some number some guy gets paid in a suit and tie in a cubicle. That having been said: The people who will make it in this business are those who are willing to work for peanuts. The have the desire to go the distance and they do. That doesn't mean they SHOULD work for peanuts, however. As an industry, we owe it to ourselves to make our value felt by doing good work at a good price, NOT working for free. Whew... Michael Black MBProds MIDI/Computer consulting, music editing for film and TV, audio engineering, music production, music copying. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 00:36:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: current listening Comments: To: emusic-list First, thanks for the advice on getting a tuner! I confess that I have been lazy and have only perused certain catalogs. I never even thought of checking out a pawn shop. What a great idea!! Current Listening: Zappa (this man was a genius) Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation. Burning for Buddy -- so many fine drummers, and screaming trumpet parts. As a trumpet player myself, I am fond of screeching E's (on a Bb horn). Level 42 -- Level Best. Prince -- Yes, I still enjoy his music. 17 Days should have been a single, not a B-side. Alvin Lucier -- Music on a Long Thin Wire (especially the 4th take). John Hiatt -- Stolen Moments. Kate Bush -- Sensual World. Emerson String Quartet -- Complete Bartok. I'm especially fond of the chorales in the 5th one, 2nd mvmt. All Neuma recordings. RUSH -- all albums, but Counterparts has taken me longer to absorb. I don't know, and I'm sure it's a volatile topic, but I think Presto is the best so far. The Pass, well written, good song structures. Nice use of the Subdominant. Live -- I love this band!!!! Many others. Note!! There is a new book out on Lucier, put out by Musik Texte. I had him sign my copy at the Atticus bookstore in Middletown yesterday. So far, good contributions. Pauline Oliveros is such a wonderful writer and composer! Also, good interviews. I've only reached page 33, but I'm quite impressed so far. It's in English and German, English on the left pages, German on the right. A good source if one's goal is to brush up on German (which I have to constantly do). $31.80 (this includes tax). If you can go, there are concerts at Wesleyan on April 15th and 16th (4pm on Sat., 1pm and 4pm on Sun (Easter?!)). Should be good. I just found out about it yesterday, so pardon my late notice. Best, Scott McCoy mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu She had a snake for a pet and an amulet she was breeding a dwarf but she wasn't done yet she had gray-green skin a doll with a pin i told her she was alright but i couldn't come in. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 15:36:53 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Michael D. Whitten" Subject: Sorry state. I've had the flu for the the past week and a half so I haven't been reading my list mail. When I resumed, the opportunity to take a somewhat fresh look at this list, its purpose, and its makeup presented itself. I don't like what I see. The question, of course, of whether the good stuff is outweighed by the bad stuff is complicated by the fact that much of the former is served on a heaping plate of the latter. I suppose each list reader has his or her own method of separating the signal from the noise, but man, I have to tell you folks, it gets tiresome. I've been a struggling composer/musician all my life; this effort has been driven by 1) my need to create, and 2) my unbridled curiosity. Listservs are perfect forums for this, but I've realized that for this reader (and this reader only), emusic-l and synth-l no longer have relevance. The mutual admiration society composed of Nick Rothwell, Mike Metlay, and Joe McMahon bores me now. Its way more difficult to extract useful information from the posts of these gentlemen than ever. Its more than just nuisance, lately. Sometimes I feel like a voyeur surreptitiously listening in on their private email correspondence, instead of the otherwise excellent public-oriented discussion they present to us, and from which any of us 'outsiders' might learn and use. If only these gentlemen could post their useful tomes separate from their insoucient and egoistic strokings (and label them as such)! But, I know it doesn't work that way; the list reader has to make the decision about what is useful and useless. Admittedly, these gentlemen are not here for our personal edification, and perhaps not even for their personal glory, but the useless Club Elite atmosphere they present to the general readership of emusic-l or synth-l has had a cumulative effect on me - such that I question my own faith in what must surely be the real reason for which we all read these lists - the music. Nick, Mike, and Joe are the de facto deities of the emusic-l, but their self-serving religion is getting old. With their recent, sometimes-blatant, but more often than not cheaply-disguised net-subsidized commercials, Mike and Joe remind me now of fat American politicians (who probably voted 'no' on term limits) who only recently figured out how to reel in their own brand of pork. Nick, on the other hand (and by virtue of being a Scot, perhaps) has somehow avoided that, but nevertheless seems ready and willing, lately, to rudely display and proselytize his own prejudices about what artists should own and play. Joe, do your duty and get me off these lists, please. You and Mike are co- administrators of these lists and I'm quite disappointed in the fact that they have now become your personal commercial vehicles. I think you've both abused your privilege. The readers of these once-fine lists as well as the net itself, of course, will be the final arbiter of the problem I'm trying to point out, but I hope net-readers everywhere exercise caution when they tacitly or explicitly give the nod to practices I formerly associated only with show business, the music industry, and Madison Avenue. Joe, do your duty and get me off these lists, please. I weighed time spent 'wheat-and-chaffing' emusic-l and synth-l vs. time I could be composing music. Composing won. Sorry. Michael ---------------------------------------------------------- Michael Whitten | m-whit2@vm1.spcs.umn.edu | mw@lenti.med.umn.edu | "Sentience is over-rated." ---------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 21:50:34 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Thomas Jerome Newton Organization: Klaustrophonia Subject: 700 - Now what? Greetings! A friend of mine finds herself with 700 UKP to spare! She's after something like a workstation, something dancy. Any Ideas? Newtz -- _________________________________________________________________________ _____/ __ \ ___/ // / / ( / \ \ / __\ \ \ / - thomasjeromenewton - / / // / / /\L- -__ \_) / \ / / ) \/ \ \ \// / / / /.\/\/. \-'\ / / \/ /\ "/ newty@newty.demon.co.uk \_// / / / \_/| \__/ _/ / " / /\__/ /// / / / ( |_ / / zu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 17:14:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Furman@AOL.COM Subject: New Music Concert @ SJSU Comments: To: users@ccrma.stanford.edu, jody@leland.stanford.edu, et.mgm@forsythe.stanford.edu, barth@leland.stanford.edu, kberger@leland.stanford.edu, hf.jbz@forsythe.stanford.edu, alcohen@leland.stanford.edu, hf.mvd@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.smg@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.bmg@f.AMERICAN.EDU An Evening of New Music by the Composition Faculty of San Jose State Univesrity School of Music Music by Richard Aldag, Brian Belet, Pablo Furman, Brent Heisinger, Theodore Lucas, Allen Strange, William Trimble and Daniel Wyman Guest Performing Artists John Sampen (alto saxophone), Maureen Chowning (soprano), Patricia Strange (violin), Sharon Brook (piano) and William Trimble (alto saxophone) April 27, 1995 School of Music 7:30 p.m. Concert Hall Program "[MUTE]ation," for tape alone Brian Belet, 1994 "Shaman: Sisters of Dreamtime," for amplified violin and computer generated sound Allen Strange, 1994 I - Evocation II - Crystal Women III -Serpent Woman (Cihuacoatl) IV - Sun Woman (Sutalidihi) V - Sky Woman (Selu) VI - Jaguar Woman Patricia Strange, violin "Two Songs from Erotica" Richard Aldag, 1994 Maureen Chowning, soprano Sharon Brook, Piano "Music for Alto saxophone and electronics" Pablo Furman, 1995 John Sampen, Alto saxophone "Stand-Up Triple," for three players and tape Theodore Lucas, 1992 Brian Belet, Pablo Furman and Allen Strange, players in Bb "A Cycle of Thoughts," for soprano and piano Brent Heisinger, 1971 I - without love II - I lie in front of a fire III - I live in apprehension Jeanne Garson, soprano Brent Heisinger, piano "Saxophone: high register," for saxophone and digital recording Bill Trimble and Daniel Wyman, 1995 Bill Trimble, Alto saxophone ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 10:04:03 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Aliasing for fun and profit follow-up Comments: To: emusic-l Remember the little discussion we had about aliasing? Here's a little followup: I was experimenting with the waveforms on the VFX, trying to see which ones had the most interesting aliasing characteristics. I was trying in particular to get those nice heterodyning effects. Research has definitely proven (to me at least) that anything with that has a lot of inharmonic character (like cymbals, attack portions of samples, and (especially) the VFX's transwaves) gives the absolute best results. I'll leave it to someone else to tell us exactly *why*, but there's an empirical datapoint for all you experimenters. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 22:05:50 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Adkins Subject: Re: Vocal Pop (was: Perplexed.) Hi, Mike metlay writes: > >Interestingly, I find that many players who are quite willing to discuss >what gear they play and how they compose are suddenly reticent when it >comes to admitting their influences; perhaps this is because of a worry >that certain sorts of music are deemed more 'legitimate' than others by >the readership...a perception which is possible, but unlikely. I admit >to listening to a lot more of the 'slick' popular music formats than many >of the people here, because I derive a lot of enjoyment from artists who >can effectively push emotional buttons through their skill. You will find >people here who listen mainly to academic emusic (or would have you think >they do ;), and people who are more familiar with artists like Jean-Michel >Jarre or Tangerine Dream that have broken into popularity to an extent. I read this group and synth-l because I compose midi instrumentals; however, my heaviest influences (with one huge exception being Metheny/Mays) have always been vocal groups/artists. I grew up listening to Chicago, Zepplin, America, and especially the Who. Recently I've been back into the 70's America catalog (+ the new one); I can just hear some laughs, but to me these are some distinctly beautiful voices with a certain emotional intensity and actually very little compositional pretense or excess. I've also recently discovered a lot of depth and beauty (imo) in Brian Wilson's seemingly vacuous Beach Boys music, e.g. in "Let Him Run Wild" or "You still Believe in Me." These being my major influences presents a problem which Joe McMahon has defined recently for me--and has thus helped me focus on solving. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, but I've found it helpful: "The problem, of course, is that an instrumentalist has to work *much* harder than a vocalist, simply because all of the emotional resonance and interest has to come solely from the music. Add good lyrics, and a weak (some might say trite) song structure will work fine. (Example: Sheryl Crow's "All I Want To Do". Not much to the music, but the words are catchy. Repeating the same note for 8 bars as a melody only works if there's "added value" in the lyrics.)" For some reason this was never really obvious to me, altho I've gotten along without it to an extent. Sorry if my tastes are more than just "illegitimate" for an e-music forum, but I would like to know if anyone has a similar experience. BTW, I can't sing . . . . -- jeff Jeff Adkins ================ jadkins@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 18:24:09 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Sorry state. In-Reply-To: <199504142040.QAA52507@atlanta.american.edu> from "Michael D. Whitten" at Apr 14, 95 03:36:53 pm > With their recent, sometimes-blatant, but more often than > not cheaply-disguised net-subsidized commercials, Mike and Joe remind me now > of fat American politicians (who probably voted 'no' on term limits) who only > recently figured out how to reel in their own brand of pork. iAgain, I apologize if people have felt I've been over-promoting myself. I'm just very excited about the whole thing. > > Joe, do your duty and get me off these lists, please. I weighed time spent > 'wheat-and-chaffing' emusic-l and synth-l vs. time I could be composing music. > Composing won. Sorry. > Sorry you feel that way. I did think long and hard about whether or not I should post anything at all concerning my CD to EMUSIC-L. Perhaps I was wrong to do so. I haven't received complaints about it (and I do listen to complaints and act on them as best I can), but if people feel the need to tell me to shut the hell up, then do so. I'm not God, I just do a job here. I try to keep us on an even keel and minimalize bad feeling. I do hope that folks with complaints will simply tell me - I do my best to be open about such things. I don't really know what else to say. Certainly anyone else who is releasing CDs or cassettes can post articles about their experiences here, and post ads on SYNTH-L. I have tried to be balanced and NOT take advantage of the list. Apparently I have not tried hard enough. Perhaps I should just limit myself to subscribing and unsubscribing people and stop reading and posting to the list altogether. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 18:29:47 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Vocal Pop (was: Perplexed.) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Adkins" at Apr 13, 95 10:05:50 pm > "The problem, of course, is that an instrumentalist has to work *much* > harder than a vocalist, simply because all of the emotional resonance and > interest has to come solely from the music. Add good lyrics, and a weak > (some might say trite) song structure will work fine. (Example: Sheryl > Crow's "All I > Want To Do". Not much to the music, but the words are catchy. Repeating the > same note for 8 bars as a melody only works if there's "added value" in the > lyrics.)" > Glad I'm saying *something* of value... :/ > For some reason this was never really obvious to me, altho I've gotten > along without it to an extent. Sorry if my tastes are more than just > "illegitimate" for an e-music forum, but I would like to know if anyone has > a similar experience. BTW, I can't sing . . . . > Oh no - I still love my old Maynard Ferguson and Stan Kenton albums, and will admit to owning a *lot* of pop (on vinyl - I should really think about replacing my turntable sometime...). Influences are influences - it's what you do with them that counts. I personally really like Toad the Wet Sprocket because of their really very sophisticated vocal work - you just have to listen for it. And Portishead is right up my musical alley with that Badalamenti feel they've got. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 15:28:31 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Janet M. Dunbar" Subject: CCRMA Concert Comments: To: users@ccrma.Stanford.EDU, jody@leland.Stanford.EDU, et.mgm@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, barth@leland.Stanford.EDU, kberger@leland.Stanford.EDU, hf.jbz@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, alcohen@leland.Stanford.EDU, hf.mvd@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, hf.smg@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, hf.bmg@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, tsgrey@leland.Stanford.EDU, cisco@leland.Stanford.EDU, stephenh@leland.Stanford.EDU, shinton@leland.Stanford.EDU, mhui@leland.Stanford.EDU, mjohnson@leland.Stanford.EDU, hf.kak@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, mahrt@leland.Stanford.EDU, et.jap@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, sano@leland.Stanford.EDU, cn.bes@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, sheridan.schroeter@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, et.ads@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, cn.mmt@forsythe.Stanford.EDU, tenor@leland.Stanford.EDU, weldy@leland.Stanford.EDU, adams@interval.com, alex@korgrd.com, siyer@netcom.com, timis@opcode.com, rob@opcode.com, Eichenberg_Tom.EVE@macmail1.nb.rockwell.com, kato@lab4.yamaha.co.jp, USERS@CNMAT.berkeley.edu, musjkm@samba.ucsb.edu, craig@well.sf.ca.us, amirk@well.com, dgl@netcom.com, fish@musclefish.com, timis@opcode.com, robert@rockmore.com, rww@sgi.com, studer@applelink.app.com, muscom@mills.edu, tildy@ella.mills.edu, dej@cats.ucsc.edu, mab@dolby.com, STRANGE@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, furman@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, wendt@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, michael@mcnabb.com, david@jaffe.com, kathy@jaffe.com, cstone@netcom.com, raf@mercury.sfsu.edu, econcert@charles.ucdavis.edu, timper@holonet.net, js%timbre.uucp@nbn.com, scotgl@csuhayward.edu, emusic-l@american.edu, edens@interval.com CCRMA Computer Music Concert New works by composers from Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics John Chowning, Director DINKELSPIEL AUDITORIUM APRIL 15, 1995 SATURDAY, 8 PM Admission: $7 adult $4 Student PROGRAM I Suite from Little Boy (1968) Jean-Claude Risset (b. 1938) II Vox (1995) Jorge Sad (b. 1959) III Terra Infirma (1992) Richard Karpen (b.1957) INTERMISSION IV Plastophonic World Das Tor zur Hoelle - Hommage a A. Rodin (1994/95) (The Gates to Hell) Bernd Hannes Sollfelner (b. 1963) V Three Dreams (1993) "Paper Castles, Invisible Clouds, Electric Eyes" Fernando Lopez Lezcano (b. 1956) VI IMAGE: the pop can Ronald Alford (b. 1939) Performed by Ronald Alford & Candice Lowe CCRMA expresses its gratitude to the late Mrs. Doreen Townsend for her interest in and support of the work at the Center. Support for research and composition at CCRMA has been received from the California Arts Council, Meet the Composer, the Mellon Foundation, the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Science Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the System Development Foundation, Ann and Gordon Getty, Walter Hewlett, Apple Computer, Crystal Semiconductor, Dynacord, E-Mu, Korg R&D, Lexicon, Matsushita, MediaVision, Meyer Audio, Opcode, Rockwell International, Roland, Symbolics, Xerox PARC, Yamaha and private gifts. UPCOMING CONCERTS If you would like to receive the Music Department's quarterly concert calendars, please add your name and address to the mailing list in the lobby. For information on upcoming concerts, call (415) 723-2720. Friday, May 5th: Alea II Ensemble for New Music. Featuring graduate composers and works by Joan Tower and Harvey Sollberger. Campbell Recital Hall, 8 p.m., free. Thursday, July 20th: CCRMA Computer Music. New works by composers from Stanford's Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics. Frost Auditorium, 8 p.m., $7/$4 students. Tickets are available at Tresidder Ticket Office, (415) 723-4317, or at the door. Please arrive early to purchase tickets at the door. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:51:00 ADT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Beyer, Gerald" Apparently I have not tried hard enough. Perhaps I should just limit myself to subscribing and unsubscribing people and stop reading and posting to the list altogether. --- Joe M. No pouting allowed. My $23 is in the mail, & I'm looking forward to hearing your effort. It would have been difficult to do so had I not become aware through the list. keep the faith, Gerald ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 22:08:20 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: composers/audiences from mike- >I think at this stage my overwhelming emotion toward them is >one of pity. I may be a philistine, but at least people can listen to my >music and say "I like this" or "I hate this" rather than "Duh." -*-* a philistine i doubt. my overwhelming emotion is one of anger, at their driving sense of self worth and their control (albeit fading) over grants/positions/fellowships, etc. they've helped to push non-musicians away from exploring sound by virtue of the fear and loathing their "intellectual systems" inspire. i think thought is every bit as important in music as emotion, but almost never at the expense of the visceral. jeff talman jetman@tunanet.comx 634 West End Ave, NY, NY 10024