========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:37:46 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Neal Sievwright Subject: Re: Sound for picture Can't see why this wouldn't work but you would have to carefully monitor your synch recording levels as some video recorder compress the audio recorded ( I have done this using a Pocket Sync in the past). Neal. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Sound for picture Author: Electronic Music Discussion List at smtpgwy Date: 7/24/95 1:46 PM I have recently been given the opportunity to do some scoring for industrial videos -- nothing exciting low pay for short training videos -- a good start to my resume for scoring. Anyway, I need to monitor the video and sync the tape deck and sequencer to the VCR. I know that this is possible with a 3/4 in ch broadcast VCR, but I can't afford one of those. All I have to work with is my tape deck, Vision, a MOTU MIDI Time Piece II (generates smpte) and a hifi VCR. Can I stripe smpte onto a regular 1/2 inch tape, say onto one of the hifi audio channels, and use that to sync up the sequencer and deck? Any other solutions that I haven't thought of? Thanks to all for your help. As always, I don't know where I'd be without your vast pools of knowledge. Thanks-Craig ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:54:40 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: M Hi folks, jetman wrote... > I've been using M (Macintosh) an old program [...] >It isn't compatible w/ anything beyond System 7.0.1 I've got 7.0.1 and I run M occasionally. (Yes, I like it too.)I'm pretty sure that my Music Dept is running 7.1 in the labs and the problem they've had with M is using it with video cards sorry, video cards. (Please excuse that; the phone link I've got right now is SF4:^A@RQtOlke }sy}N;z8|E c }sa6|@{0zYou get the idea!) So, is it really incompatiblle with anything beyond 7.0.1? Since I've been thinking of upgrading my system, this is a concern (although I still have 6.0.8 on a partition). Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:37:05 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Simon McGuire Subject: Pirate TV Comments: cc: Jeff_Prime_at_epamx-act-atia@mgdestmx01.erin.gov.au Sorry this is a bit off topic, but does anyone know if there are any Internet resources on the phenomenon of pirate TV? I figure that the subscribers of this list may be a good initial representative sample of individuals to address this query to. Once again I apologise for being seriously off-topic. Simeon McGlure ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 23:35:16 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: Sound for picture In-Reply-To: <9506248066.AA806619380@smtpgwy.agric.nsw.gov.au> from "Neal Sievwright" at Jul 24, 95 01:37:46 pm > I have recently been given the opportunity to do some scoring for industrial > videos -- nothing exciting low pay for short training videos -- a good start > to my resume for scoring. Anyway, I need to monitor the video and sync the > tape deck and sequencer to the VCR. I know that this is possible with a 3/4 in > ch broadcast VCR, but I can't afford one of those. All I have to work with is > my tape deck, Vision, a MOTU MIDI Time Piece II (generates smpte) and a hifi > VCR. Can I stripe smpte onto a regular 1/2 inch tape, say onto one of the > hifi audio channels, and use that to sync up the sequencer and deck? Any other It'd probably be better for you to use the linear audio heads rather than the hi-fi; ie, put the recorder in mono mode if it has one. Hi-fi audio is recorded simultaneously with the video, in slanted lines across the tape, rather than continuously in parallel with the edge of the tape. It may be paranoia, as obviously they manage to get nice smooth audio with hifi but I'd trust that method less than having the code spread linearly along the length of the tape. And of course that way you won't have to always use a hi-fi playback machine either. -- _______ KB7PWD - now on packet! shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * robotics * PIC * RISC * Star Trek * sci fi * mad science * SunSparc * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:30:42 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Sound for picture Hi Craig, your scoring start can be done with a domestic hifi VCR, but you'll need to request the right format from the video amkers or the post pro facility that's handling it. Usually, what people do is to have the dialog (and maybe some sound effects) on one track of the audio and SMPTE time code on the other. The SMPTE must be laid down in sync with the picture (but that's not your job). You must also ask for the frame rate. (If it's for the U.S. market, it'll probably be 29.97fps -- that is, drop frame. If there only transfers are to be to video for NTSC markets, then you'll have no other SMPTE problems. If you need to know about telecine transfers, as when they shoot on film even though it's dstined for video, all I can say is it can get quite complicated with the frame rates and 'drop-frame' and 'non-drop-frame'. Where I am in Australia, stuff shot on film, but for video is at 25 fps and PAL video is 25fps. Easy!) You take the SMPTE track and feed it into your MIDI/SMPTE converter. MIDI Time Code (MTC, the same as SMPTE but as MIDI messages) is then sent to your sequencer, which can sync to it. No problems there. You mentioned your tape machine. Well, you could stripe one track of it with SMPTE starting at the same SMPTE time as (or a bit earlier than) that on the video. The problem will be having those machines run together. The simple set up described above has the video as the master transport and the the computer/sequencer as the slave. If you need to sync your tape machine at the same time, it cannot also act as the master. To have it run as a slave it needs to be an externally sync'able machine. (If it has a 9-pin D-sub on the back, cahnces are it'll respond to standard video synchroniser commands.) But then you have to have a synchroniser. If, on the other hand, you're only using your tape machine to deliver the final mix of your music, then it must have enough tracks for audio (usuallly 1 or 2, mono or stereo) and 1 for time code. When you transfer your music to this tape, sync the sequencer to the video and run the video. Then run the SMPTE signal from the video to a device which jam syncs (i.e. regenerates the SMPTE code and sends it out fresh). Record the jam sync'd code onto one track of your tape machine while recording the music on the other tracks. That way, they post house can re-sync your tape to the pro video master they have and to the final music/dialog/fx mix for the finished program. On jam sync'ing. A few MIDI/SMPTE converters have a separate output which sends regenerated SMPTE. When they receive SMPTE from a tape (e.g. your video transport) they'll send a refreshed copy out which you can use for anything else. If your MIDI/SMPTE box doesn't have this, you'll need to get a separate jam sync box and set it up the following way: VIDEO SMPTE OUT ------> SMPTE IN Jam REGEN SMPTE OUT ----> AUDIO TAPE TRACK sync device REGEN SMPTE OUT-----> MIDI/SMPTE CONV. The MIDI/SMPTE box will drive your sequencer. If you need any more explanation, then mail me privately. (That was enough to inflict on other members of the list!) REgards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:50:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: RonG225zt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: M I'd like to know more about "M". What is it and what does it do? BTW- any ideas as to why it's not 7.1 or 7.5 compatable? Have you ever tried running it with Cache's disabled? Ron rong225zt@aol.com rgeier@tribnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:09:08 GT-003 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Hermann H. Rauth" Organization: PUC/PR Subject: Sound Blaster 32 AWE I just heard about Sound Blaster 32 AWE and would like to know more about it... Is that true one can load its memo with up to 128 samples? If so, what is the sample max time? Anyone? >=- Hermann Rauth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:36:25 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Crystal Subject: Re: M >I'd like to know more about "M". What is it and what does it do? > >BTW- any ideas as to why it's not 7.1 or 7.5 compatable? Have you ever tried >running it with Cache's disabled? > My copy of M 2.2.4 seems to work fine with System 7.5 on a PowerMac Jon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:37:15 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: File sharing In-Reply-To: <199507230029.UAA13253@river.biddeford.com> from "Gus Alden" at Jul 22, 95 08:29:51 pm > >I've done it with VFX sequence files. Works fine, as long as the patches are > >sent along and both ends use exactly the same equipment. > > Ok, John, so now I've got to ask you, what is a VFX file. And by the way, > while we're back on the subject, how does one go about uploading and > downloading midi files anyway? Do I have to buy Stuffit Deluxe, or is there > some ShareWare out there somewhere that will do the trick? > Sorry, that was me, not John. The VFXsd is the synthesizer I own. I have worked with another musician by saving things to the VFXsd's disk and mailing the diskette to the other person. Identical hardware, therefore identical result. MIDI files are usually uuencoded for transmission over the net; you should be able to find an application to do this at mirrors.aol.com via FTP. Since they tend to be on the large side. it's best to send them using private mail rather than a mailing list such as this one. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Deep Forest's Chocolate Box In-Reply-To: <950721031512_119663626@aol.com> from "Dustin McIntyre" at Jul 21, 95 03:15:18 am > > >>Hey funnyman who ripped on the one-hit wonders of the world. You > were dead on with some of your jabs and punches, ****but****you threw a > serious low blow when you mention PRINCE in the same breath with the others. > Prince has musical talent that precedes that of many of his > contemporaries. I sense a flamewar based on musical tastes developing. Let's not, shall we? --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:46:30 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: M Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU >It was made >by Intelligent Music in Albany...Chadabe's little software >company. (is he still doing music?) They sold the product, >along with M, to Dr. T's. >dunn@intellicorp.com >>So, is it really incompatiblle with anything beyond 7.0.1? Since I've >>been thinking of upgrading my system, this is a concern (although I still >>have 6.0.8 on a partition). >>David >>musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au >I'd like to know more about "M". What is it and what does it do? >BTW- any ideas as to why it's not 7.1 or 7.5 compatable? Have you ever tried >running it with Cache's disabled? >Ron >rong225zt@aol.com >rgeier@tribnet.com >>Saw your posting. What kind of problems did you have with 7.5? I run M >>2.2.4 at home on a Color Classic, and have loaded it also on my PowerMac at >>work with 7.5, and it seems to work just fine. . . . >>Jon M (mac platform only) is realtime music software for MIDI that will allow the user to control numerous musical parameters by various on-screen sliders, dials, and mixing functions. An example might be to enter three notes via a MIDI keyboard, then you may control rate of playback, rhythmic variety, octave, pitch order, randomness of pitch order, transposition as well as many other parameters. These changes may be recorded and then played back, while you further interact with the musical materials. Yea, Joel is still doing music, I saw him in Albany last summer. As Dr. T's was recalcitrant at that point to sell M (they ran out of manuals and didn't want to go into a new printing), Joel was nice enough to give me a copy of M (I got him to autograph the disk!) and to loan me a manual. He gave me version 2.2.5. Later that summer I heard that there had been a newer upgrade. Dr. T's sent me the upgrade (for around $15 I think) because I was able to _prove_ my registered user-ness by sending them a photocopy of the first page of the manual. They shipped version 2.2.4 as the latest version. Regardless, I couldn't get either version to run correctly on System 7.1.2. (I have 7.5, but prefer the leaner, earlier 7.1). Joel had said that the software would not be upgraded to 7.1. Although I was able to run it sporadically on 7.1.2, I usually crashed within 5 or 10 minutes. I run now under 7.0.1 very smoothly. Jon's post that 7.5 is compatible is good news, I'll re-think my 7.5 qualms accordingly. I'd appreciate a word from anyone with info about obtaining Intelligent Music's Upbeat program. It sounds similar to M regarding algorhythmic sound processing. If it's anything like M, it's a winner. Jeff Talman jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:02:47 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tom Hamilton Subject: Re: Sound for picture Can I stripe smpte onto a regular 1/2 inch tape, say onto one of the hifi audio channels, and use that to sync up the sequencer and deck? Any other solutions that I haven't thought of? ************* 1. Would suggest that you ask the producer to give you a window dub, w/ production audio on one track and SMPTE on the other. This way, you'll have a visual representation of the code that matches the actual SMPTE on the audio track, which then can match your sequencer, etc. This saves an unbelievable time in scoring, spotting sfx, etc. 2. If a window dub isn't available, you still should be preserving production audio on your copy, in order to make intelligent decisions about the music. You can make the dub yourself by copying video from one VCR to another, with generated SMPTE going down at the same time to one (rec) audio track (instead of the audio from the source VCR track). The other (rec) audio track gets fed with a mix of the 2 sources, if needed. Good luck. *TOM* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:19:21 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Deep Forest's Chocolate Box -Reply >please >splain with examples of songs that aren't really 100% his... ..and as far away from this mailing list as possible. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:55:16 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Admin FAQs V1.2 (Last changed 9 July 1995) Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU This is the second posting of the new V1.2 Administrative FAQ document. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: Long Document (411 lines, 3119 words, about 7 pages)-------------- EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Administration This document is posted approximately every two weeks. It is intended that this document should answer many of the questions asked by newcomers to the lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin Russ, at: mruss@midi.dungeon.com This is Issue 1.2. 9 July 1995. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Added since issue 1.1. 11 June 1995: - Reply to List or Author (messages, 2/3) - Mike Metlay returns as list co-moderator (background, 1/3) - Rough index of topics covered (index, start) Added since issue 1.0. 14 May 1995: - AOL subscriber problems with unsubscribing and digest changes (subs, end) - Contributor list (end) TOPIC INDEX**************************************************************** - Background - Max - Soundcards - Music mailing lists - Messages - Subscriptions etc BACKGROUND***************************************************************** "What are the EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L lists for?"***************************** EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are for the discussion of electronic music in general: its history, practitioners past and present, equipment, techniques, trends, research, development, resources, you name it. They exist as a 'post-moderated' alternative to the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup. (post-moderated means that the moderators monitor what is posted, and sometimes remind posters about the 'rules': see below for the 'rules'). A digest is also available for each list. This collects all the postings for a day into one e-mailing. "Who are the moderators?"************************************************** Joe McMahon and Mike Metlay have been on here for over seven years. Their aim is to keep the mail flowing and the illegal and blatantly out-of-line traffic to a minimum. Joe can be contacted at: mcmahon@clark.net Mike can be contacted at: atomic@netcom.com "So, can I post anything I feel like?"************************************* Well, no. There are some RULES. The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary (and more the subject of SYNTH-L). What we are concerned with on EMUSIC-L is the music, composing, and related topics. Therefore: 1) Ads are not permitted on EMUSIC-L. Advising someone as to whether they are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise, use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK. Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on SYNTH-L. Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside information on a new product or upgrade. Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording, and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention is marginally acceptable; a short mention in a signature file is fine.) Here's a quick summary (it goes from 'admirable' to 'not acceptable'): - A ONE-TIME post mentioning that you have completed a CD or tape and a summary of experiences/etc. in making the recording is admirable. - An article which contributes to the discussion on the list AND contains a signature file which mentions CD/tape/album availability is acceptable. - Repeated postings saying nothing but "My recording is available" are bad. - Outright ads for records you did not make, hardware, software, used cars, etc. are very bad. 2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are useful. Mutual admiration societies are not. 3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that, take it to e-mail, or just forget about it. 4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a little humor on the list; however, the list owner(s) (Joe McMahon at the moment) will maintain the final say as to the subject matter on the list and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous discussions. 5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That is the administrators' job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Joe, or to the offender, use private mail. 6) The listowner(s) are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the quality of discussion on this list. "How did EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L start?"************************************** Perhaps a bit of ancient history is in order here, to show where these lists come from and why they are the way they are.... Many moons ago, when there was for all practical purposes no such thing as the Internet (and there were certainly few or no commercial online services), people had access to cyberspace only through a set of large but mutually exclusive network protocols, generally provided by and germane to their place of education or work. One of these was the USENET hierarchy of UNIX machines at universities and laboratories and a few commercial sites; another was BITNET, an international mail system for mainframe computers used by scientists. Communication between the two systems was possible only in a crude and roundabout manner, so they developed separate systems for dealing with the same needs. In a rough, very general sense, USENET developed the news hierarchy and BITNET developed list servers and mailing lists; in the subfield of electronic music, USENET had the once-quite-small newsgroup rec.music.synth and BITNET had EMUSIC-L. The 'feel' of these groups was in concert with the sort of people using them; rec.music.synth was more open, with college students and commercial users, whereas EMUSIC-L tended toward academic users. This tended to shape the level of discussion and the topics covered, but keep in mind that early on, the overlap between the two groups was relatively small. Some time later, as reliable gateways between BITNET and the rest of the growing Internet allowed for the redistribution of newsgroups as mailing lists, SYNTH-L was launched as a gateway of rec.music.synth posts, so BITNET users without USENET access could enjoy the news there. It was a short, hard-learned lesson; the lack of moderation and the huge number of news articles delivered as email (!) knocked many prospective users for a loop. It wasn't all that long before the USENET feed was cut and the gateways to the news hierarchy were removed, isolating SYNTH-L and effectively removing its reason for existence. At that point, with Joe's blessing, Mike stepped in as conceptual 'parent' of SYNTH-L, and began to promote it as a nice middle ground between EMUSIC-L's often rarified discussions and the daily mayhem on rec.music.synth (now rec.music.makers.s). It was semi-moderated, so postings stayed (by and large) polite and focussed, but long discussions of gear, software, technical problems, and so forth that were considered a waste of time by many EMUSIC-L readers were encouraged, and over the years since then a de facto division between the two groups, and a healthy relationship, has settled into place. It's true that the divisions between topics for the two groups are occasionally blurry, but that's something most folks simply learn to live with and get a feel for. "Is SYNTH-L supposed to be technical discussion of synthesizers?"********** "Does EMUSIC-L cover electronic music in general?"************************* Very roughly, SYNTH-L is for the detailed technical talk, like gear for sale, where to download patches, whether synth A is better than synth B (whatever 'better' means), technical problems and solutions, and so on. SYNTH-L is the stuff that people on EMUSIC-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss electronic music. Conversely, EMUSIC-L is for all the serious (and sometimes not so serious) philosophical discussion on electronic music in its widest sense. EMUSIC-L is the stuff that people on SYNTH-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss gear. In both cases, one could say that this sort of discussion has its place, but people sometimes like to see it, and sometimes don't. All the EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L division purports to do is allow an approximate separation between the snobs and the plebs. Where people take that is up to them. It's true that there seems to be no set focus or set of aims in these lists. That's deliberate. We are like-minded individuals looking for someone intelligent and knowledgeable to talk to, and the topics range all over the place, as well they should in such a forum. One shouldn't expect any kind of focus in an environment where anything is a potential topic for discussion. "What's the point? It's not what I expected!"****************************** The point is that we don't want you to have unreasonable expectations of what EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are 'for'; they are what they are, and most people seem content to enjoy them as they are or guide them elsewhere, either for a while or for good... A good starting point for finding out what the electronic music of EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L is all about is the EMUSIC-L World Wide Web page at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. MAX************************************************************************ "What is MAX, anyway?"***************************************************** MAX is a software toolkit which gives a real-time, interactive, graphical development environment for multimedia, music (and more). Programs are 'written' by connecting together graphical objects, rather than typing text. Typical applications for MAX include: Editors and Librarians for MIDI equipment; Compositional Tools; Utilities for analysing musical performance; and much more. MAX is often mentioned in these lists. It currently exists in variants for the Unix environment and on the Apple Macintosh, although a petition has been mentioned within these lists for a Windows version - contact JOEL STERN on stern@email.loc.gov or j.stern11@geis.genie.com for details. For more information on the Macintosh version, you should try contacting your nearest Opcode dealer. (Opcode distribute MAX for the Mac). Opcode also have a World Wide Web page at : http://www.rahul.net/opcode/index.html. There is also a MAX listserv. Send a message to listserv@vm1.mcgill.ca with a Subject of: Subscribe Max, and the message text: SUBSCRIBE MAX You will then receive daily digests of postings to the MAX list. SOUNDCARDS***************************************************************** "Where do I find information on Soundcards?"******************************* Information on soundcards for personal computers can be found in the following Usenet newsgroup(s)" comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS. MUSIC MAILING LISTS******************************************************** "Anyone know a good MUSIC discussion group on ?"********* The best place for discussion of almost any group, band, artiste, performer, musician (you get the idea), is the Usenet newsgroups. Try: alt.fan. MESSAGES******************************************************************* "Should I respond to a message on the list?"******************************* The whole point of this list is that we attract people who are smart enough to make these decisions for themselves, and do. You can be one of them, if you let yourself. Think and decide for yourself, make mistakes, correct them, learn, move on, and enjoy the trip. Or, if you're paralyzed by fear of doing or saying something wrong, you can choose to lurk forever. Please also read the "So, can I post anything I feel like?" 'Rules' section of this document before posting anything to the list. "How do I send a message to the list?"************************************* For EMUSIC-L, you send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic. For SYNTH-L, you send your posting to synth-l@american.edu. Should I reply to the List or the Author?********************************** Questions posted by people who are not long-term subscribers to a mailing list often say something like 'please reply privately' or 'please respond off-list'. This usually has two effects: (1) Probably lots of repetition in the responses! (2) The rest of the list never hearing about what might be an interesting topic. Replies are a valuable asset to the list members! So an unsubscribed person contributes very little to the list, and probably wastes quite a lot of time sorting through the responses. An unsubscribed person is also unlikely to post a summary of the received replies back to the list. Edited summaries can be very valuable assets to the list members. Unless a response is really private in content, it is probably best to post it to the List, not the Author. This encourages people to subscribe; provides a wide variety of potentially useful information; and discourages unsubscribed people from posting queries to a list. Most importantly, it is often replies to a question which trigger off some of the most useful discussions. Replying privately just short-circuits this process. Sometimes adverts are posted to the SYNTH-L list (EMUSIC-L does not welcome adverts) as part of a 'shotgun' approach, where all the music-related lists and newsgroups receive the same advert. In this case it is best to reply directly to the Author of the original advert rather than the List. Off-topic advertisements, chain letters, and other annoyances will be dealt with by the list administrators. There is no need to reply to or comment on these - it just adds extra 'noise' to the mailing list. The SYNTH-L and EMUSIC-L mailing lists went to 'subscriber-posting-only' on the 6th of July 1995. This means that postings are only accepted from people who have formally subscribed to the lists. This will not prevent all adverts, chain letters etc (see above), but it should help to keep the list clear of many of them. "Where is the archive of FAQs kept?"*************************************** This is a new document (as of May 1995). As the maintainer adds new questions this document will be revised, and some questions and answers may be removed. You will be able to ftp the full FAQ file from the Internet. SUBSCRIPTIONS************************************************************** "How do I unsubscribe?"**************************************************** For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB SYNTH-L as the body. Again, no special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). "How do I subscribe?"****************************************************** To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail message to listserv@american.edu with the text SUB EMUSIC-L where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the other list members. 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Contributors:************************************************************** Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Ned Kartchner, Clive McFarland and others --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Russ EMUSIC-L & SYNTH-L Admin FAQ Maintainer mruss@midi.dungeon.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:19:39 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU Subject: Re: Ashra ******** I'm interested in someAshra works to. Please e-mail to.... *** "PEACE-2-U," *** fm/JEWELZ *** e-mail to: "JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU." *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:25:21 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU Subject: Re: TRANSFER YOUR MUSIC TO CD I am very interested in transfering some of my audio tape recordings (as well as some vinyl) to CD format. Please give me some info on this great service your offering. *** "PEACE-2-U," *** fm/JEWELZ *** e-mail to: "JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU." *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:09:53 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU Subject: Re: Deep Forest's Chocolate Box -Reply Jackson has a way of trying to see what's hot and make his. Alot of his late 70's early 80's stuff (off the wall, thriller) was heavily worked on by Quincy Jones, (some of the lyrics were also not by MJ-just check the liner notes), you move on to Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis as well as Teddy Riley and others. MJ seems to be a user, who needs the limelight and spotlight, but who can never really fullfill his statue. I'v always been curious if he has any musical talent at all. Or if it's just vocal talent. If anybody knows let me know. *** "PEACE-2-U," *** fm/JEWELZ *** e-mail to: "JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU." *** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:15:17 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Question: Morph Simulation Question: Lacking the gear to morph a riff, is there some way to simulate it with a sequencer? Any ideas? Related Question: Have you heard Bj=F6rk's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that get's morphed several times? How is that done? -Gus --------------- Gus Alden aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:55:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation What do you mean by 'Morph' in this context? There are an awful lot of answers to your question as it stands... eg., Do you have a sampler, do you have any computer-based dsp? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:32:28 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Thomas Jerome Newton Organization: Klaustrophonia Subject: Re: Ashra Me again! > ******** I'm interested in someAshra works to. Please e-mail to.... Well, I'm hardly barking about them, my posting eons ago was on behalf of a friend (who I managed to fall out with some weeks ago!). If you're interested I still have all the associated responses, about fifteen items. Maybe I could compile them for you, if that's any help? Seeyuz! Newtz -- _________________________________________________________________________ _____/ __ \ ___/ // / / // )| / __\ \ \ / - thomasjeromenewton - / / // / / / L- -__ l| / \ / / ) \/ \ \ \// / / / /.\/\/. \-'\ / / \/ /\ "/ newty@newty.demon.co.uk \_// / / / \_/| \__/ _/ / " / /\__/ /// / / / ( |_ / / zu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:08:40 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robin Sayer Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation In-Reply-To: <199507250314.XAA17201@river.biddeford.com> On Mon, 24 Jul 1995, Gus Alden wrote: > Question: >=20 > Lacking the gear to morph a riff, is there some way to simulate it with a > sequencer? Any ideas? >=20 > Related Question: >=20 > Have you heard Bj=F6rk's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that > get's morphed several times? How is that done? >=20 > -Gus >=20 I was thinking about this the other day - I heard a song which seemed to=20 move while it was playing from one mix to another (Is this the kind of=20 morphing youre talking about) It was be excellent to record a song with say 6 different mixes and be=20 able to use them all by wandering from one to the other gently I can't see how this can be done after the recording though - It would=20 take a huge amount of processing power?? Robin rsay@wimpol.demon.co.uk =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:21:55 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Zimbak Camire Subject: Re: Cancelling vocals > I think that this will blow most amplifiers' output stage.... > ..In this (rare) case, your scheme may work but I still think that the amp > would complain. > > Bill Fox In my case, the scheme blew away the whole right channel of my amp... :,-( No complaints... Just a hard learned lesson. Don't check it out if you're unsure of how diehard your amp is. Zimbak Camire AMIRTAAS@Math.Sharif.ac.IR (Listening to half of his favorite stereo music via a single left channel.) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:12:30 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "joseph.r.sleator" Subject: Re: Morph Simulation on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:15:17 Gus Alden wrote: Subject: Question: Morph Simulation >Question: >Lacking the gear to morph a riff, is there some way to simulate it with a >sequencer? Any ideas? >Related Question: >Have you heard Bj=F6rk's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that >get's morphed several times? How is that done? >-Gus on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:55:21 Mark Bostel replied: >What do you mean by 'Morph' in this context? There are an awful lot of >answers to your question as it stands... >eg., Do you have a sampler, do you have any computer-based dsp? I think what Mark is asking is 'what is it that is really morphing?'. Is it one melody morphing into another melody? Is it perhaps an instrument with a specific timbre changing to another timbre? Perhaps a bass riff which repeats over and over, each time changing one or two notes, maybe a note timing change here and there, until it's a completely different piece. Morphing as we know, involves using a computer and two different pieces of media and digitally processing the content of both so they change over time by discreet evolutionary steps. If all you want to do is morph from one timbre to another, that's easy and fun. Get a garden variety multitimbral midi synth, and record one midi channel on your sequencer, with a channel volume curve through the sequence that ramps down for as long as you want the timbral evolution to take. Now duplicate the track, assign it to another midi channel, and set its channel volume control curve to ramp up for the same time duration. When you play the two tracks (assuming you have them both panned to the same position) the first track will smoothly change timbre to the second track without the melody or time changing. This is sometimes called a timbre crossfade. If you want to morph one melody to another melody and they both have the same note timing, that's easy too. I open a piano roll window on both melody channels. Then I position the windows so they coin- cide in time. Then, I make a copy of the 'a' channel on an integer bar boundary. Next, I change the new repetition of the 'a' channel to be slightly closer to the 'b' channel. Each time I do this, I scroll the 'a' channel so that it lines up with the 'b' channel in terms of the bar boundary, so I don't get lost. After a few repetitions of this, say, morphin' bassline, channel 'a' becomes 'b'. I have samplers and a suite of various DSP based systems, but I don't use any of them for the morphing I've described above. As Mark said, there are other things you can do to get from one sound to another. Mark, are you referring to time-energy morphing in the frequency spectrum domain? This is a bit like Vocoding, where you take the time evolving frequency content of one sound and impose it on the (harmonically rich) legato envelope of a second sound. The second sound envelope needs to be longer than the first, to give the frequency envelope of the first sound something to 'bite' into. Mark, what kind of processing are you referring to which uses DSP and/or a sampler? Oh, Just thought of something... If your sampler has velocity-based sample mixing, like a Series III Fairlight or most other modern samplers, you can go from one timbre to another just by changing the velocity of a midi track routed to an instrument made out of two different sounding samples whose crossfade is set to 'velocity'. Joe Sleator Sydney Australia "Home of the Fairlight" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation >What do you mean by 'Morph' in this context? There are an awful lot of >answers to your question as it stands... > >eg., Do you have a sampler, do you have any computer-based dsp? Mark- Thanks for responding. In the example I referred to (Army Of Me from Bj=F6rk's Post CD) the loop that the synth is playing gradually changes from one patch to the next. No sampler. No DSP in my Mac. Just a sequencer, and a synth. I assume that what I need is something along the lines of a Proteus Morpheus, but because it'll be awhile before I can obtain one %-( I wonder if there may be something I can do with what I've got. --------------- Gus Alden aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:05:37 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steve Smith Subject: new list With the fairly recent discussions regarding "Deep Forest" and sampling "rights", I thought this might be of interest to some of you folks. > > Really-From: "Randal E. Baier" > > New Discussion List (a "message group," really): TECHNOCULT > > Music and Technoculture List > Moderators: Rene T.A. Lysloff and Randal Baier > > The term technoculture describes social groups and behaviors characterized > by creative strategies of technological adaptation, avoidance, subversion, > or resistance. It is formulated with the assumption that technology, > rather than being separate from or outside of culture, is saturated with > cultural meaning and, in turn, fully assimilated into the lived > experiences the humans that use it. Changing technologies thus also > implicate cultural practices involving music--including musical > creativity, production, reproduction, consumption (and reception), > aesthetics, and even scholarship. > > The purpose of TECHNOCULT is to discuss the implications of new media and > information technologies in relation to musical experience (whether live > or mediated). TECHNOCULT has been set up as an electronic forum in > anticipation of the upcoming preconference symposium, "Music and > Technoculture," at the Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles, California, on > October 18, 1995 (preceding the 1995 Meeting of the Society for > Ethnomusicology, also at the Biltmore Hotel, October 19-22). Some of the > questions to be addressed in the symposium will be: Can and should the > individual tones, rhythms, or timbres of a musician or a musical style, > even a whole musical culture, be protected through copyright laws? Where > does ethnomusicology stand in regard to cross-cultural plunderphonics (the > creative appropriation of musical sound), especially with the advent of > digital sampling technology? How has such technology change musical > creativity? Can even the most abstract stylistic elements of music, > simply the "sound," "feel," or "groove" of a composition or performance be > owned, or appropriated and commodified? Should digital sampling and > recontextualization be regarded as audio-piracy or musical creativity, or > rather, where along the continuum between audio-piracy and musical > creativity does digital sampling operate? > > > Indeed, digital sampling is perhaps the most controversial form of musical > technology in recent history: it blurs the line between musical production > and schizophonic reproduction. In other words, samplers have a parasitic > relationship with the past (since all sampled sounds are, after all, past > sounds) and yet it has revolutionized musical creativity by liberating > sound entirely from its source of production and allowing it to be > completely malleable. Fields such as musicology, ethnomusicology, > communications, anthropology, performance studies, etc., have yet to > examine the broader implications of digital and other new technologies to > the study of music and culture. > > We hope that TECHNOCULT and the planned Symposium will, at the very least, > raise important questions for further examination and discussion. To join > TECHNOCULT and/or for further information on the preconference symposium, > send a message to Rene T.A. Lysloff (LYSLOFF@vms.cis.pitt.edu) or Randal > Baier (REBAIER@umich.edu). > > > ----[end of announcment]--- > > -- Steve Smith stsmith@davidson.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:45:48 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation Hi Gus, >Have you heard Bj=F6rk's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that >get's morphed several times? How is that done? (BTW, forget the umlauts, acutes, graves, etc. As you can see, they don't work on a plain text mailer!) What do you mean by morph? Is the synth line made the subject of variations (i.e. pitch, intervals, contour, etc.) ? Or is the sound itself changing? Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Bird Subject: Re: M >>So, is it really incompatiblle with anything beyond 7.0.1? Since I've >>been thinking of upgrading my system, this is a concern (although I still >>have 6.0.8 on a partition). >>David M is a joy to use and it is unfortunate that development was not continued. I ran M on an SE30 using System 6.7. When System 7.0 came out I found that M would not run unless the memory was set to 24 bit mode. I recently installed the Apple hardware updater, and everything runs great at 32 bit mode. Hooray. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:26:57 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Justin Janisch Subject: hello.... ....Hi. I am new to this list, and I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good sampler for under $1000 (or is this a ridiculous request)?.....also what would be a good controller keyboard, and are these things compatible with my mac?......Thanks for all your help.....justin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation >>Have you heard Bjork's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that >>get's morphed several times? How is that done? >What do you mean by morph? Is the synth line made the subject of variations >(i.e. pitch, intervals, contour, etc.) ? Or is the sound itself changing? Hello David- In the example that I referred to, the synth is playing a bass line. It's so repetitive, I assume that it's a sequenced loop. But the timbre goes through various changes as the piece progresses. The result, a riff that might have otherwise struck me as monotonous (had it stuck with the same patch all the way through) has now become magically enticing, like clouds rushing over a static horizon line in fast motion, thus captivating my attention and arousing my curiousity as to how it was done. -Gus (anxiously curious e-music novice) --------------- Gus Alden aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:59:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wes Loveday Subject: Re: hello.... Not quite UNDER $1000, but at about $1100+tax, you could get an Akai s2800 or Emu systems ESI-32, both are good sounding units, sample at 44.1khz and offer DSP functions. They are each other's competitors, and are about an equal value to my understanding. They are also the only new samplers in the market in this price range. If I forgot, they're both rack units. You might also want to consider some used samplers such as ensoniq EPS's and the like. Hope this helps you. Wes Loveday ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:26:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "joseph.r.sleator" Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 My Post post: Gus Alden Wrote: > Lacking the gear to morph a riff, is there some way to simulate it with a > sequencer? Any ideas? Robin Sayer replied: >I can't see how this can be done after the recording though - It would >take a huge amount of processing power?? And Gus Wrote: [snip] >rushing over a static horizon line in fast motion, thus captivating my >attention and arousing my curiousity as to how it was done. >-Gus (anxiously curious e-music novice) Here's my theoretical scenario of what happened in the final production stages of Bj!@#)(rk's Post Tr. 1 'Army of Me' arranged as a dialog between the artist, and the producer: [after 3 fruitless hours of mucking around with a huge mix of 'Army of Me'] Producer: "So, Ms. Gudmundsdottir, what are we going to do with this bassline?" Artist: "Hmmm, I like that patch you've got on fader # 12, but fader #9 sounds good too, kinda more punchy, but I really like the 'floaty' ambient quality on fader # 15! I like what you did with the panning flanger effect on fader #7 as well..." "Hmmm..." [the producer, wishing to please, has kindly recorded the bassline 5 times, each with a slightly different bass patch and effects, and assigned each to a separate fader on the mixing desk] Producer: (impatient) "Okay, We'll run through it again, this time with the vocal. You hang around over there next to the faders, and just play with 'em while I run the tracks off the disk again. Tell me when you get it how you like it." (I presume they're using some sort of 16 or 24 track digital desk) [Bj@)rk takes her cup of tea and saunters over to the mixing desk] [the producer cleverly sets the desk to mix what Bj@#)rk does with her basslines to a spare stereo channel on the desk] Artist: "Hey, this is great! This fader sounds good in the beginning, but then this other fader, if I bring it up slowly after the second verse, goes better through the middle. Now, for the big finish, we slide these two down and bring up this 'floaty' one here." Producer: (relieved) "Great! I'm going out for a smoke and a cuppa, can I get you anything?" etc. etc... [end of excerpt from the documentary: "The making of Bj@(rk's Post" on MTV Friday Night!] This may be a rather cynical view of the Post production proceedings :-) , but very likely what really happened was similar. A great many wonderful things are discovered by human beings by accident. Honestly, this is a wonderful effect when properly used, and the artist was clever to try it on her CD. I can do what I've just described in my own bedroom, with or without samplers, DSP's, and Bj@#()rk, using my $450 wavetable/sample EMU8000 based midi sound card and voyetra's orchestrator (which comes bundled with some soundcards). Basically all you do is record a mix using a sequencer which has graphical channel volume controls. Make several of the tracks identical, except for the timbre of the notes. Now, while you listen to the mix, fiddle with the channel level controls until you get the timbre evolution 'morphing' that you want. If you want to get clever, record a control track for each channel which ramps up and down like your mix. You can lay the control tracks one above the other in your sequencer to view them correlated in time, so that your overall volume of all the audible morph tracks stays the same. Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! [End of Post post production post :->] Happy mixing, Joe Sleator Sydney, Australia "Home of the Fairlight" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:22:29 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robert Cardinali Subject: Re: hello.... In-Reply-To: <950725234442_40867254@aol.com> On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Wes Loveday wrote: > Not quite UNDER $1000, but at about $1100+tax, you could get an Akai s2800 or > Emu systems ESI-32, both are good sounding units, sample at 44.1khz and offer > DSP functions. They are each other's competitors, and are about an equal > value to my understanding. They are also the only new samplers in the market > in this price range. If I forgot, they're both rack units. You might also > want to consider some used samplers such as ensoniq EPS's and the like. Hope > this helps you. > > Wes Loveday > The s2800 has some effects built in. I don't believe the ESI-32 does. Hope this helps. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:25:33 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marc Resibois Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 On Bj^%()@^@k Bass Line : Even better :) The guy had made a good joke : while she was playing flight simulator in the rest room ( flying a 747 for timing's sake ), he had used a small program to translate her joystick position to the main volume of the four synth he had. She made a landing practice in 3:43 and it gave the bass line of AOM. Now, joke on the side, that kind of program should be one of the dumber to be done under windows using both the Joystick and Midi API's so my question is : Does such a program exist ? It would allow vectorial synthesis on every synth or even Cross-Synth vectorial synthesis :). -+-> Marc. <100126,1007> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:21:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: <9507260924.AA8186@CServe-91.inhouse.compuserve.com> > Here's my theoretical scenario of what happened in the final production stages > of > Bj!@#)(rk's Post Tr. 1 'Army of Me' arranged as a dialog between the artist, and > the producer: [snip] > Producer: (impatient) "Okay, We'll run through it again, this time with the > vocal. > You hang around over there next to the faders, and just play with 'em while I > run the tracks off the disk again. Tell me when you get it how you like it." > (I presume they're using some sort of 16 or 24 track digital desk) > > This may be a rather cynical view of the Post production proceedings :-) , but > very likely what really happened was similar. A great many wonderful things > are discovered by human beings by accident. Honestly, this is a wonderful > effect when properly used, and the artist was clever to try it on her CD. This scenario sounds perfectly reasonable, in fact one might be even more charitable and assume that they deliberately tried to cross-fade between different sounds because they knew it would make an interesting effect. And why not, if you have mountains of gear, and unlimited polyphony, put it to good use? Heck, I think I'm going to try this trick (even though I lack the mountains of gear). Well, I don't suppose I'm going to be able to make my sample of Bill Fox swearing in Greek sound like it's morphing into Jeff Harrington's Louisiana accent, but the juxtaposition could be interesting. Hmm... It's nice when something on the list gives you ideas. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:48:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In response to Gus's inquiry about morphing, Joe Sleator wrote: >Here's my theoretical scenario of what happened in the final production stages >of Bj!@#)(rk's Post Tr. 1 'Army of Me' arranged as a dialog between the >artist, >and the producer: (snip) >Artist: "Hey, this is great! This fader sounds good in the beginning, but then >this other fader, if I bring it up slowly after the second verse, goes better >>through the middle. Now, for the big finish, we slide these two down and >bring >up this 'floaty' one here." (snip) >[end of excerpt from the documentary: "The making of Bj@(rk's Post" on MTV >Friday Night!] Thank's for the tour into Bj@#~>rk's ;-> recording studio. Cool! >I can do what I've just described in my own bedroom, with or without samplers, >DSP's, and Bj@#()rk, using my $450 wavetable/sample EMU8000 based midi >sound card and voyetra's orchestrator (which comes bundled with some >soundcards). > >Basically all you do is record a mix using a sequencer which has graphical >channel >volume controls. Make several of the tracks identical, except for the timbre of >the >notes. Now, while you listen to the mix, fiddle with the channel level controls >until >you get the timbre evolution 'morphing' that you want. If you want to get >clever, >record a control track for each channel which ramps up and down like your mix. >You can lay the control tracks one above the other in your sequencer to view >them correlated in time, so that your overall volume of all the audible morph >tracks stays the same. > >Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! Why yes, ofcourse. 3 strikes against me though: 1. My keyboard has no midi control beyond note on & off :-( No way to record a volume track. 2. My sequencer is quite rudimentary; it has no graphical volume controls :-(. However, I can place controllers step time into the Edit window, a time consuming pain in the B, but I suppose this is what I must do in the name of love. 3. I don't have a morph license. Must I violate yet another law! But you've given me plenty of food for thought, and I appreciate it. As I spend hours punching volume control messages into my sequencer, I'll be thinking of how I can save up enough cash for Bjork's digital 16-tracker. -Gus(anxiously curious midi novice) --------------- Gus Alden aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:01:11 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Lorne Hammond Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation In-Reply-To: <199507260322.XAA09091@river.biddeford.com> On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gus Alden wrote: > >>Have you heard Bjork's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that > >>get's morphed several times? How is that done? No. > In the example that I referred to, the synth is playing a bass line. It's > so repetitive, I assume that it's a sequenced loop. But the timbre goes > through various changes as the piece progresses. The result, a riff that > might have otherwise struck me as monotonous (had it stuck with the same > patch all the way through) has now become magically enticing, like clouds Simple non-morph answer: set up an analog sequence to loop, and while recording play the settings on the synth being sequenced. The pitch repeats but envelopes of attack & decay, filter resonance, pitch and modulation wheels, filter setting, volume, phaserts, flangers, echoes, panning etc, LOTS OF POSSIBILITIES, None involving morphing, the joys of analogue...I am always surprised by people who program a sequence and then let it run by itself when recording. YOU DON'T HAVE TO! Even for MIDI to a DX-7, you can let it run, but then, "play" the preset change buttons, set up your sounds to allow for that, example, Terry Riley or someone like that used to empty all the banks of their Prophet 5 and load the same sound into each slot, then change a little item in each slot, and step through the banks while playing, to stir things up a bit. Morphing maybe, probably is, a great tool, but low tech imagination and thinking about the act of recording as a "performance" goes a long way. Lorne ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:00:31 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Guy c. Jules Van Belle" Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation >>>Have you heard Bjork's latest CD? On Track 1, there's a synth line that >>>get's morphed several times? How is that done? > >>What do you mean by morph? Is the synth line made the subject of variations >>(i.e. pitch, intervals, contour, etc.) ? Or is the sound itself changing? > >Hello David- > >In the example that I referred to, the synth is playing a bass line. It's >so repetitive, I assume that it's a sequenced loop. But the timbre goes >through various changes as the piece progresses. The result, a riff that >might have otherwise struck me as monotonous (had it stuck with the same >patch all the way through) has now become magically enticing, like clouds >rushing over a static horizon line in fast motion, thus captivating my >attention and arousing my curiousity as to how it was done. > >-Gus (anxiously curious e-music novice) Since the term 'morphing' became popular, people hear 'morphs' everywhere. In the analog days, we changed the oscilators and filters all the time while a sequence was running, because otherwise it would get too boring too soon. With current MIDI modules, changing sound realtime while playing a sequence, is harder to realise, because apparently the software (on the machine) prevents this. Some generators can do this in an interesting way, like the Waldorf MicroWave. Another problem is the fact that sequencers don't let you do dynamical stuff in realtime. That is why we turned to MAX. First we write our editors for our different sound generators - including Sysex Midi generators for changing the sound during the performance/piece, secondly we write some realtime controllable algorithms (mouse, comp-keyboard, glove, ...) that use the editors to a high extend. We don't call this 'morphing', because that would have to use physical models of sounds. But doing something like described above is not that difficult. We have been doing this frequently on an inexpensive Yamaha TG100 that becomes suddenly an incredible machine. So just use the system exclusives and you can do this too (they are at the back of the manual, and you can't access them from the front panel ...) GuyZ for Young Farmers Claim Future (CD/CD-ROM 'unploughed' due to be released this fall on SUBROSA) ************************ Guy.VanBelle@rug.ac.be University of Ghent 5, Sint-Pietersplein B9000 Gent_Belgium_Europa T/+329.2643549 F/+329.2643599 Young Farmers Claim Future http://www.riv.nl/farmers/tex ***************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:24:41 -0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: damian keller Subject: morph I do not think morphing is the same as crossfading. I believe this could be related to changing timbre of an instrument into another the following way: Set a steady spectrum by summing some harmonics as is done in additive synthesis (this is the first timbre). Set another spectrum (2nd. timbre) Transform the first timbre into the second by adding and/or subtracting the necessary harmonics. At the same time modify the intensity to match the values of the 2nd. timbre. I think the difference is in the intermediate steps taken in crossfading so there are moments where you hear the sum of both sounds and not a sound that is n hybrid of both, Damian (from Amazonia land) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:24:45 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Adkins Subject: Re: Morph Simulation Joe Sleator wrote: < some deleted> >If all you want to do is morph from one timbre to another, that's easy >and fun. Get a garden variety multitimbral midi synth, and record >one midi channel on your sequencer, with a channel volume curve >through the sequence that ramps down for as long as you want the >timbral evolution to take. Now duplicate the track, assign it to another >midi channel, and set its channel volume control curve to ramp up >for the same time duration. When you play the two tracks (assuming >you have them both panned to the same position) the first track will >smoothly change timbre to the second track without the melody or >time changing. This is sometimes called a timbre crossfade. Ok, I tried drawing 2 straight diagonal volume control changes inverted (127->0, 0->127) within the same time and even with the exact same patches and channel set-ups, but what I seem to have found out is that two identically set patches at volume level 63 are not as loud as one at 127. Iow, the overall volume simply dropped toward the mid point of the process. Is there a better formula for this? --jeff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:39:50 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: <9507260924.AA8186@CServe-91.inhouse.compuserve.com> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, joseph.r.sleator wrote: > > Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! I didn't know you needed a license for that Odo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:42:53 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: <9507261125.AA14363@nit.be> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Marc Resibois wrote: > > Now, joke on the side, that kind of program should be one of the dumber to be done under windows using both the Joystick and Midi API's so my question is : Does such a program exist ? > > It would allow vectorial synthesis on every synth or even Cross-Synth vectorial synthesis :). > > -+-> Marc. <100126,1007> > It would not even be a resource hog, since, AFAICR, the joystick API and the MIDI stuff are both in mmsystem.dll ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:31:02 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: M Comments: To: jetman@tunanet.com In-Reply-To: <61406.5367758@tunanet.com> from "jetman" at Jul 24, 95 02:46:30 pm jetman writes-- >I'd appreciate a word from anyone with info about obtaining Intelligent >Music's Upbeat program. It sounds similar to M regarding algorhythmic sound >processing. If it's anything like M, it's a winner. Hee ho hurnk. Wrongo! According to David Zicarelli of OMS fame, who was hired to fix UpBeat and get it to actually work right before it shipped, the program was flawed right out of the starting gate and very flaky. The only person I know of who uses it at all with any success is Team member Adam Schabtach, who told Zicarelli that he was still using it and was greeted with protestations of utter disbelief. Which is a pity, since it put a very nice UI on creating interesting rhythm patterns. I expect Adam's duplicated it in MAX by now, but the UI won't be near as slick.... (This data from a chat between DZ and AS about a year ago, by the way.) mike -- x0xb0x (pronounced "zox-box"): any Roland device with 'x0x' in its name, as in SH-101, TB-303, TR-808, etc. This term may be descriptive or derogatory. ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:07:58 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation In response to Gus's enquiries about morphing, GuyZ said: >Since the term 'morphing' became popular, people hear 'morphs' everywhere. >In the analog days, we changed the oscilators and filters all the time >while a sequence was running, because otherwise it would get too boring too >soon. >With current MIDI modules, changing sound realtime while playing a >sequence, is harder to realise, because apparently the software (on the >machine) prevents this. Some generators can do this in an interesting way, >like the Waldorf MicroWave. Another problem is the fact that sequencers >don't let you do dynamical stuff in realtime. That is why we turned to MAX. >First we write our editors for our different sound generators - including >Sysex Midi generators for changing the sound during the performance/piece, >secondly we write some realtime controllable algorithms (mouse, >comp-keyboard, glove, ...) that use the editors to a high extend. We don't >call this 'morphing', because that would have to use physical models of >sounds. But doing something like described above is not that difficult. We >have been doing this frequently on an inexpensive Yamaha TG100 that becomes >suddenly an incredible machine. So just use the system exclusives and you >can do this too (they are at the back of the manual, and you can't access >them from the front panel ...) Ah yes, being the newcomer that I am, I missed all those years of analogue synthesizers. What you've just said has really enlightened me as to why some, in this age of digital, prefer them. I have experimented with realtime control from the front panel on my Proteus, with some success, but my primary objective is how to get the effect I'm looking for programmed into the sequencer, which is the medium I'm using for recording multiple tracks. Thus far, I've been using midi controllers to adjust main volume, panning, reverb and chorus depth, and ofcourse, program changes, tempo changes, etc. But I haven't figured out how to adjust patch algorithms in realtime with midi control messages, or is it even possible with the synth that I own? I think we're veering off from the subject of morphing, if that's alright with everybody. OK, so I've heard MAX mentioned before, and didn't pay it too much attention. Can you tell me what it is? Software, I assume. How does it opertate? Thanks, -Gus Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:29:06 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Crossfading (warning: real math) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Adkins" at Jul 26, 95 03:24:45 pm Jeff go scratchy-scratchy on rock: > Ok, I tried drawing 2 straight diagonal volume control changes inverted > (127->0, 0->127) within the same time and even with the exact same patches > and channel set-ups, but what I seem to have found out is that two > identically set patches at volume level 63 are not as loud as one at 127. > Iow, the overall volume simply dropped toward the mid point of the process. > Is there a better formula for this? Yep. Paraphrasing liberally from F. Richard Moore's "Elements of Computer Music": if you use a simple crossfade which linearly increases the amplitude of one signal and linearly decreases the other, the sound intensity will be smaller in the middle of the crossfade. Sound intensity is proportional to the square of the amplitude, so the total intensity at midpoint will be 2 2 (1/2) + (1/2) = 1/2 only HALF the original intensity. Essentially the curves have to work out so that the total perceived intensity (amplitude squared, approximately) of both sounds always sums to a constant. Can I give you an equation? Not off the top of my head. Unless someone else comes up with something, I'll try to have an equation tomorrow. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:06:09 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Crossfade equation In-Reply-To: <199507262206.SAA14386@river.biddeford.com> from "Gus Alden" at Jul 26, 95 06:07:58 pm I think I have it. Fade out should be cos((pi/2)x); fade in should be sin((pi/2)x). This gives an intensity of sqrt(2) at the halfway point in both cases, which works out nicely to sum to 1. Now with a little diddling, we can assume that we are changing from 0 to 127 in 128 steps. Here's a table: 127 sin(pi*x/2*128) = X Y X Y X Y 0 0.0000 1 1.5585 2 3.1167 3 4.6745 4 6.2316 5 7.7877 6 9.3427 7 10.8963 8 12.4482 9 13.9982 10 15.5462 11 17.0917 12 18.6348 13 20.1750 14 21.7122 15 23.2461 16 24.7765 17 26.3031 18 27.8259 19 29.3444 20 30.8585 21 32.3679 22 33.8725 23 35.3720 24 36.8662 25 38.3548 26 39.8376 27 41.3144 28 42.7850 29 44.2492 30 45.7067 31 47.1573 32 48.6008 33 50.0370 34 51.4656 35 52.8866 36 54.2995 37 55.7043 38 57.1006 39 58.4884 40 59.8674 41 61.2373 42 62.5981 43 63.9494 44 65.2910 45 66.6229 46 67.9447 47 69.2563 48 70.5574 49 71.8479 50 73.1276 51 74.3963 52 75.6538 53 76.8999 54 78.1344 55 79.3572 56 80.5679 57 81.7666 58 82.9530 59 84.1268 60 85.2880 61 86.4363 62 87.5716 63 88.6938 64 89.8026 65 90.8978 66 91.9794 67 93.0471 68 94.1008 69 95.1403 70 96.1655 71 97.1762 72 98.1723 73 99.1536 74 100.1200 75 101.0713 76 102.0074 77 102.9281 78 103.8333 79 104.7228 80 105.5966 81 106.4545 82 107.2964 83 108.1221 84 108.9315 85 109.7246 86 110.5010 87 111.2609 88 112.0040 89 112.7302 90 113.4395 91 114.1317 92 114.8066 93 115.4643 94 116.1046 95 116.7275 96 117.3327 97 117.9203 98 118.4901 99 119.0421 100 119.5761 101 120.0921 102 120.5901 103 121.0699 104 121.5314 105 121.9747 106 122.3996 107 122.8060 108 123.1940 109 123.5634 110 123.9142 111 124.2463 112 124.5597 113 124.8544 114 125.1303 115 125.3873 116 125.6254 117 125.8446 118 126.0449 119 126.2262 120 126.3885 121 126.5317 122 126.6559 123 126.7610 124 126.8470 125 126.9139 126 126.9617 127 126.9904 128 127.0000 There you go. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:14:54 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Siberian Khatru Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: <9507261125.AA14363@nit.be> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Marc Resibois wrote: > On Bj^%()@^@k Bass Line : > > Even better :) The guy had made a good joke : while she was playing >flight simulator in the rest room ( flying a 747 for timing's sake ), he >had used a small program to translate her joystick position to the main volume >of the four synth he had. She made a landing practice in 3:43 and it gave the bass >line of AOM. > > Now, joke on the side, that kind of progra6m should be one of the dumber to be done under windows using both the Joystick and Midi API's so my question is : Does such a program exist ? > > It would allow vectorial synthesis on every synth or even Cross-Synth vectorial synthesis :). > > -+-> Marc. <100126,1007> > Well, a very simple Joystick-to-MIDI program does exist for Windows. It is located at ftp.cs.ruu.nl in the directory /pub/MIDI/PROGRAMS/MSWINDOWS. It is called MDJSTK10.ZIP. Also of interest by the same programmer is a program which allows MIDI connection between a number of Windows applications at a time. I can't remember the file-name, but it's in the same directory so look at the INDEX file for the directory. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon Southwood jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu ****************************************************************************** "Aria--Italian for 'song which will not end in your lifetime'"--Dave Barry ****************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:24:04 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Simon McGuire Subject: Re: Morphing The Yamaha SY-35 has a 4-way vector control which allows for real time morphing between timbres....... Simon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:02:44 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Morph Simulation Joseph unlurked to write-- > >If you want to morph one melody to another melody and they both >have the same note timing, that's easy too. I open a piano roll window >on both melody channels. Then I position the windows so they coin- >cide in time. Then, I make a copy of the 'a' channel on an integer >bar boundary. Next, I change the new repetition of the 'a' channel >to be slightly closer to the 'b' channel. Each time I do this, I scroll >the 'a' channel so that it lines up with the 'b' channel in terms of the >bar boundary, so I don't get lost. After a few repetitions of this, say, >morphin' bassline, channel 'a' becomes 'b'. > Joseph, everyone else here understands this, but please explain further to a man of little brain. In what way do the repetitions on 'a' get closer to 'b'? Pitch? If so, does this mean that co-incident notes which have very different note values will take longer to morph than those which are closer together in pitch? [seamlessly morphing to Joseph's second post] >you get the timbre evolution 'morphing' that you want. If you want to get >clever, gave that up a while ago... >record a control track for each channel which ramps up and down like your mix. >You can lay the control tracks one above the other in your sequencer to view >them correlated in time, so that your overall volume of all the audible morph >tracks stays the same. > Speak to me gently of control tracks. Ramping velocity values in EZVision's strip chart I understand, but how are control tracks created and assigned to channels? Elementary question I'm sure. >Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! > Licences are no longer required in NSW following a flood of applications from politicians who daily morph promises into garbage. Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:22:29 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Travis Pollard <73553.1146@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Still looking for a keyboard Hi all, I'm looking at a few keyboards and and like some opinions. The first is the Korg X5. It appears to do everything I need and it comes with a sequencer, notation program, and other stuff. $650 was one price I found. The second was reccomended to me. It's the Alesis QuadraSynth. I really like this one but $1200 is a little much. Can I get a used one for a few hundred less? The last one I'm looking at is the Yamaha W7 or W5. The only difference I see between the models is the number of keys. This one looks like the best. It comes with a Piano Wave Card. Does that really help? The list price is $2495 for the W5 and $1995 for the W7. I've found the W5 for $1850 and the W7 for $1450. Any other recommendations? I'll be using it with Cakewalk or possibly another Sequencer and I'll be playing various types of music. I would really like something that's expandable. Thanks, Travis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:08:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: Morph Simulation >on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:15:17 >Gus Alden wrote: >Subject: Question: Morph Simulation > Joe, and all, We've probably said everything now, but anyway... Audio morphing involves something like taking two discrete 'samples' and processing them over time so that one turns into the other. The process must involve extrapolating a time-weighted frequency(/volume) content of a packet of each sample. This, presumably, involves a lot of heavy fourier transforms. I don't believe there is anything at the moment that will do this in real-time (maybe Csound does?) I change the timbre of repeating bass-lines and arppegios simply by modulating the filter cutoff in real time using a midi pedal. Or you can draw controller curves in your sequencer. Obviously, your synthesizer must support modulation of its filters. When I got my Morpheus about a year ago I naively believed the hype that real morphing was occuring. It doesn't. What you do get is the filters morphing, which is quite wonderful in itself. You can sort-of morph certain instruments into others by using a filter with strong formants (such as the vocal filters), or gradually apply a resonant bell filter to turn a piano into a ... bell! The ability to take two sounds and create a whole range of new sounds through morphing is a very exciting one, even if the processing can only be done on a computer and later transferred to a sampler. If anyone knows of software that will do this (on a PC) I would like to hear about it. I do have Csound, but I must admit to not having made the effort yet to get to grips with it. Regards, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:52:58 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Crossfade equation Joe whipped out his calculator-- >I think I have it. Fade out should be cos((pi/2)x); fade in should be >sin((pi/2)x). This gives an intensity of sqrt(2) at the halfway point >in both cases, which works out nicely to sum to 1. > >Now with a little diddling, we can assume that we are changing from 0 to 127 >in 128 steps. Here's a table: > >127 sin(pi*x/2*128) = > >X Y X Y X Y > 0 0.0000 1 1.5585 2 3.1167 etc Nice going, Joe. For those like me who need simple pictures, it plots out roughly like this I think: 130| x | x | x 100| x | x y | x | x | x 50| x | x | x | x |x __________________________ 75 130 x Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:05:46 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Rejean V. Drapeau" Subject: MIDI QUEST V5.0 Editor/Librarian HELP PLEASE!!! Hi, I'm new to this list and would really like some assistance on the MIDI QUEST version 5.0 Editor/librarian. I just bought this software last week and I am having a terribly time trying to get it to work. I live in NH and I called Sound Quest (the developer) in Vancouver B.C. in Canada for assistance. Their phone support has room for improvement. I've tried to get the product to receive a Sysex dump from six different midi modules with no success on any of them. I keep getting the message 'ERROR! Sysex Missing Bytes'. I'm using a sound blaster pro sound card as my midi interface. One can receive this message when the driver for the sound card does not accept Sysex messages. To fix this, I've download an upgrade to the SB PRO drivers yesterday off of AOL, but this did not resolve the problem. Should I simply go out and buy a true MIDI interface card like Music Quest's MQX-16?? In addition, does anyone know where I can get patches for a Korg Wavestation EX and the Korg O5R/W? (on Web sites, AOL, etc) Do any have any patches for these instruments? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Reg in NH ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:32:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Black Subject: Re: Sound for picture >I have recently been given the opportunity to do some scoring for industrial >videos -- nothing exciting low pay for short training videos -- a good start >to my resume for scoring. Anyway, I need to monitor the video and sync the >tape deck and sequencer to the VCR. I know that this is possible with a 3/4 in >ch broadcast VCR, but I can't afford one of those. All I have to work with is >my tape deck, Vision, a MOTU MIDI Time Piece II (generates smpte) and a hifi >VCR. Can I stripe smpte onto a regular 1/2 inch tape, say onto one of the >hifi audio channels, and use that to sync up the sequencer and deck? Any other >solutions that I haven't thought of? Thanks to all for your help. As always, >I don't know where I'd be without your vast pools of knowledge. Thanks-Craig >Craig, You can indeed work to a VHS vcr when writing to picture. There are some issues you need to be aware of. Sync: If the program is long (anything more than a couple of minutes) and you stripe the tape yourself, you could be asking for trouble. VHS vcrs drift from one to the next. Yours could be running slower or faster than your clients and the end tape (the master) will not be the proper length when you try to lay it back. The rule is this: NEVER remove the video program from time code. If you get your client to make the tape for you with time code matching their's and then you lay it back (again with the code on a time code track or somewhere) you will have no problems. Occasionally, to eliminate problems, if no timecode 2track is available, I will lay stuff back in two passes (L+TC, R+TC) onto a DAT and then lay it back to video or multitrack or disk recorder or something. You are in good shape as far as your MTP II, it handles sync VERY well. The other thing is that VHS vcrs are clunky and slow as far as shuttling around for working. You go beyond your mark almost every time. But, It can be done, and very successfully. Good Luck. Michael feel free to write back with any other questions. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:32:46 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Black Subject: Re: Sound for picture David Rodger wrote: >Usually, what people do is to have the dialog (and maybe some sound effects) >on one track of the audio and SMPTE time code on the other. The SMPTE must >be laid down in sync with the picture (but that's not your job). You must >also ask for the frame rate. (If it's for the U.S. market, it'll probably >be 29.97fps -- that is, drop frame. If there only transfers are to be to >video for NTSC markets, then you'll have no other SMPTE problems. If you >need to know about telecine transfers, as when they shoot on film even though >it's dstined for video, all I can say is it can get quite complicated with the >frame rates and 'drop-frame' and 'non-drop-frame'. Where I am in Australia, >stuff shot on film, but for video is at 25 fps and PAL video is 25fps. Easy!) 99% of what David said is true. BUT, 29.97 comes in two types, both drop and non-drop frame. The only time I have had need to use 29.97 drop frame is for network TV, being a long form. The difference between the two is the numbers. Drop frame code will "drop", that is skip, some numbers in order to keep the SMPTE display consistent with elapsed time. The VAST majority of work uses 29.97 nondrop SMPTE. Sometimes called 30 frame (incorrectly). Just make sure you use the same code that the client is using. You CANNOT sync up drop-frame and non-drop SMPTE later without a ton of work. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:50:11 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Lorne Hammond Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: Joystick program: I have an old board with 4 joysticks for panning the bus. It occurred to me that QUAD might come back if you have dual soundcards for 4 track anyhow. At a computer the listener is in a fixed position and i think game programmers could take advanrtage of that to think about quad as a theatre in the round game effect. All you really need is to co-ordinate the joystick movements, and every gamer already has one. So what happens in midi if you set up a mix and select one channel to run to the joystick for panning on remix? Good stuff I suppose. That's my idea. Anyone want to run with it? Lorne Hammond lhammond@sol.uvic.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:18:34 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post In-Reply-To: ; from "Uri Bruck" at Jul 26, 95 10:39 pm On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, joseph.r.sleator wrote: -> Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! I got my morphing licence for music at the same office where I got my poetic licence for lyrics. -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Re: Morphing Hi all, Isn't "morph" being mistakenly used in place of the word "modulate"? Coming from the old-school of analog, modulate would be the proper term and function of this effect. Listen to Erasure's latest album. Vince Clarke used only analog synths and sequenced everything CV. You will very quickly get the idea behind modulation as it is used in EVERY sound on the album. d:) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:20:59 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Deved Smith Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation In a message dated 95-07-26 20:16:18 EDT, you write: >But I haven't figured out how to adjust patch algorithms in realtime with >midi control messages, or is it even possible with the synth that I own? What synth DO you own again? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Crossfade equation In response to Joe's rather remarkable calculation of crossfade equations , Clive made an effort to make it a little more understandable to the rest of us (dummies;-)) by creating this quite charming graph of what appears to be a space shuttle launching: > > 130| x > | x > | x > 100| x > | x > y | x > | x > | x > 50| x > | x > | x > | x > |x > __________________________ > 75 130 > x Gentlemen, I've got to say that I never could have imagined this discussion leading to this................................... WOW! And let me take this opportunity to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed everyone's input into this matter and the give & take that has ensued from it. I've obviously signed on with a knowledable bunch, and I consider it my good fortune to have done so. Thanks to everybody. -Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation Deved Smith writes: >In a message dated 95-07-26 20:16:18 EDT, you write: > >>But I haven't figured out how to adjust patch algorithms in realtime with >>midi control messages, or is it even possible with the synth that I own? > >What synth DO you own again? It's a Proteus FX. A nice little machine really, but having for a year now relied almost soley on it's presets for inspiration, it's time for me to start digging more deeply into it, and see what this baby can do. As for sending controller messages to it, because my keyboard has no message controllers beyond notes on/off & sustain (it's a digital piano), I've been placing the controller messages into my sequences, one at a time, but I'm not sure what controllers, if any, affect the algorithyms of the individual patches. This is my question. -Gus Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:47:34 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post >On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, joseph.r.sleator wrote: > >-> Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! Hi- Gus speaking: You may have noticed that I recently attempted to morph or crossfade or modulate my question regarding morphing into a question about controlling patch algorithyms on a Proteus FX (or on any synth for that matter) with controller messages from a sequencer. I've tried to make a connection here, thus far with no results. Any suggestions? -Curious Gus Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:34:57 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 On morphing bass lines, Joe Sleator said: > A great many wonderful things are discovered by human beings by > accident." True. And knowing when to use a "happy accident" is something at which the Beatles excelled! Put yourself in that league and enjoy the fun - even if you never attain the fame and fortune. Mark Simon said: > Well, I don't suppose I'm going to be able to make my sample of Bill > Fox swearing in Greek sound like it's morphing into Jeff Harrington's > Louisiana accent, but the juxtaposition could be interesting. Hmm... I'm still eager to hear what you do with those samples you're making of visitors. Did you happen to download the samples I made of my nephews? (On the sgroup ftp site.) Analog Content: Use one sample to vocode and/or ring modulate the other! (Your S50 has multiple outputs, right?) Bill Harrington (or is that Jeff Fox?) swearing in cajun with a Greek accent?!?!? :-) > It's nice when something on the list gives you ideas. Extremely. Lorne beat me to part of my answer: > Simple non-morph answer: Actually, at least to my warped way of thinking, your answer is the classical morph answer, i.e., it's an analog answer. It's just that nobody called it that. The way you seem to be using the term "morph" seems to indicate a dependance on a [digital] device that includes the word morph in its name. I rather think that the term should refer to the process of changing the parameters within a patch and/or the connections that make a patch. > play the settings on the synth being sequenced. The pitch > repeats [while parameters change]. You got it! Move those Juno-106 or whatever sliders around and record the sysex messages on a separate track. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:14:58 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Jose M. Sanchez" Subject: Re: MIDI QUEST V5.0 Editor/Librarian HELP PLEASE!!! You might want to note what kind of system you have as well. What kind of Hard disk drive technology, etc... On slower (less than 80486 50's) systems the midi uart on the SBpro has a hard time keeping up with the midi data stream. In addition the IRQ is shared with the SB's other functions AND normally the parallel printer port (though the latter is rarely a problem). Since there is NO actual handshaking going on when the computer is receiving midi data, ANYTHING can cause the SB to "hiccup"... Try: 1) If you are using the audio (D/A) portion of the SB to produce sounds in windows, turn this off while using the SB as a MIDI board. 2) Make sure that you have enough memory to run Windows (8 megs or better!) Most programs do NOT utilize the "smarts" of the more expensive dedicated midi boards. They will normally work better though for several reasons, including: 1) better dedicated device drivers 2) the I/O is normally buffered 3) there might be actual handshaking going on... (sounds like a song...) 4) IRQ's are not shared with other devices... (if you have a free one!) etc... Hope this helps a little... -JMS ---------------Original Message--------------- Hi, I'm new to this list and would really like some assistance on the MIDI QUEST version 5.0 Editor/librarian. I just bought this software last week and I am having a terribly time trying to get it to work. I live in NH and I called Sound Quest (the developer) in Vancouver B.C. in Canada for assistance. Their phone support has room for improvement. I've tried to get the product to receive a Sysex dump from six different midi modules with no success on any of them. I keep getting the message 'ERROR! Sysex Missing Bytes'. I'm using a sound blaster pro sound card as my midi interface. One can receive this message when the driver for the sound card does not accept Sysex messages. To fix this, I've download an upgrade to the SB PRO drivers yesterday off of AOL, but this did not resolve the problem. Should I simply go out and buy a true MIDI interface card like Music Quest's MQX-16?? In addition, does anyone know where I can get patches for a Korg Wavestation EX and the Korg O5R/W? (on Web sites, AOL, etc) Do any have any patches for these instruments? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Reg in NH ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- Name: Net Results, Inc. E-mail: nresults@clark.net (Net Results, Inc.) Date: 04/03/95 Time: 19:20:20 ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:51:16 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Crossfading (warning: real math) In-Reply-To: <199507262229.SAA07957@clark.net> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Joe McMahon wrote: > will be smaller in the middle of the crossfade. Sound intensity is > proportional to the square of the amplitude, so the total intensity at > midpoint will be > 2 2 > (1/2) + (1/2) = 1/2 > > only HALF the original intensity. > > Essentially the curves have to work out so that the total perceived intensity > (amplitude squared, approximately) of both sounds always sums to a constant. > Can I give you an equation? Not off the top of my head. Unless someone else > comes up with something, I'll try to have an equation tomorrow. > > --- Joe M. > 2 2 sin(x) +cos(x) =1 So if you work out that the volume of the first fader should always equal to sin(x) (0 Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robert Cardinali Subject: Re: Sound for picture In-Reply-To: <950726223238_123837360@aol.com> On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Michael Black wrote: > You can indeed work to a VHS vcr when writing to picture. There are some > issues you need to be aware of. > problems, if no timecode 2track is available, I will lay stuff back in two > passes (L+TC, R+TC) onto a DAT and then lay it back to video or multitrack or > disk recorder or something. You are in good shape as far as your MTP II, it > handles sync VERY well. Michael- Please excuse my ignorance, but I have heard the term "lay it back" a few times now (several times in your message alone!) :) Can you please explain to this mental midget, exactly what "laying back" means? Thanks! Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 06:56:44 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "joseph.r.sleator" Subject: retro:Cross-fad 'ing with greasy knobs or silicon? Howdy eMuJoCkS! Clive McFarland Wrote: >Joseph, everyone else here understands this, but please explain further to >a man of little brain. In what way do the repetitions on 'a' get closer to >'b'? Pitch? If so, does this mean that co-incident notes which have very >different note values will take longer to morph than those which are closer >together in pitch? Yup, Pitch. ( we already talked about timbre, in my last two posts, and I had already said that in the second morphing case we had notes which were identical duration in both sets) I'm sorry if I didn't specify that we were pitch morphing explicitly. The notes will all morph together and end up at the second melody at the same time (if you want). I was thinking, if you had a processor who had access to the midi stream you could, say take two streams, assume they correlate event-for-event, then calculate the delta between each note, and the number of steps to take for your morph. It would then be fairly EZ to step by whole semitones of int(notedelta/morphsteps). What would be even more fun is to calculate an absolute frequency of (notedelta/morphsteps) and use a combination of note and bend midi events to 'smoothly' move the pitch of one melody to another! If your sequencer can export midi to text, then import text event lists back in again, the (computer) programming would be almost trivial. Up 'till now I was doing it by hand! Would you like such a thing? ---------------------------------------------------------------- man midimorph MidiMorph [filea.txt] [fileb.txt] [morphsteps] Takes two midi files and metamorphoses one file into the other file, outputting morphsteps iterations of the original. Copyright (c) 1995 JRDS BitWright (Shareware) ----------------------------------------------------------------- a and b contain one loop repetition and the program outputs morphsteps copies of this loop with a morphing 'smoothly' to b. Do you want such a thing? Anyone? >Speak to me gently of control tracks. Ramping velocity values in >EZVision's strip chart I understand, but how are control tracks created and >assigned to channels? Elementary question I'm sure. What I do in my freebie version of CakeWalk (don't blame me, it works great with my soundcard) is, for a given track, open a controller window. Select the controller called Channel Volume (can't recall which controlnum this is, it's been A long time since I wrote the midi controls implementation for the MFX console). Now, with midi recorded onto the track, you just draw across with the control track pencil Icon, (I find it's a bit jittery myself) 'Till you get the volume/time dynamic you want. If you do this for another track with a complimentary timbre, and compensate for the sound intensity nonlinearity which Joe McMahon was talking about by putting a little hump on you curves (honestly, it doesn't need to be rocket-sci accurate in my experience, just humped up at the midway point in the fade) You should have an effective timbre crossfade 'morph' which Graham Massey would be proud of! In retro-spect, though, I think Bj#$*rk and Graham may have done 'Army of Me' with a real analog synth and used good ol' fashioned greasy knobs. I wonder when this cross-fad will end? Happy Morphing, Joe Sleator [promulgator of "The Thread That Wouldn't Die"] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 06:57:00 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "joseph.r.sleator" Subject: retro:Cross-fad 'ing with greasy knobs or silicon? Howdy eMuJoCkS! Clive McFarland Wrote: >Joseph, everyone else here understands this, but please explain further to >a man of little brain. In what way do the repetitions on 'a' get closer to >'b'? Pitch? If so, does this mean that co-incident notes which have very >different note values will take longer to morph than those which are closer >together in pitch? Yup, Pitch. ( we already talked about timbre, in my last two posts, and I had already said that in the second morphing case we had notes which were identical duration in both sets) I'm sorry if I didn't specify that we were pitch morphing explicitly. I was thinking, if you had a processor who had access to the midi stream you could, say take two streams, assume they correlate event-for-event, then calculate the delta between each note, and the number of steps to take for your morph. It would then be fairly EZ to step by whole semitones of int(notedelta/morphsteps). What would be even more fun is to calculate an absolute frequency of (notedelta/morphsteps) and use a combination of note and bend midi events to 'smoothly' move the pitch of one melody to another! If your sequencer can export midi to text, then import text event lists back in again, the (computer) programming would be almost trivial. Up 'till now I was doing it by hand! Would you like such a thing? ---------------------------------------------------------------- man midimorph MidiMorph [filea.txt] [fileb.txt] [morphsteps] Takes two midi files and metamorphoses one file into the other file, outputting morphsteps iterations of the original. Copyright (c) 1995 JRDS BitWright (Shareware) ----------------------------------------------------------------- a and b contain one loop repetition and the program outputs morphsteps copies of this loop with a morphing 'smoothly' to b. Do you want such a thing? Anyone? >Speak to me gently of control tracks. Ramping velocity values in >EZVision's strip chart I understand, but how are control tracks created and >assigned to channels? Elementary question I'm sure. What I do in my freebie version of CakeWalk (don't blame me, it works great with my soundcard) is, for a given track, open a controller window. Select the controller called Channel Volume (can't recall which controlnum this is, it's been A long time since I wrote the midi controls implementation for the MFX console). Now, with midi recorded onto the track, you just draw across with the control track pencil Icon, (I find it's a bit jittery myself) 'Till you get the volume/time dynamic you want. If you do this for another track with a complimentary timbre, and compensate for the sound intensity nonlinearity which Joe McMahon was talking about by putting a little hump on you curves (honestly, it doesn't need to be rocket-sci accurate in my experience, just humped up at the midway point in the fade) You should have an effective timbre crossfade 'morph' which Graham Massey would be proud of! In retro-spect, though, I think Bj#$*rk and Graham may have done 'Army of Me' with a real analog synth and used good ol' fashioned greasy knobs. I wonder when this cross-fad will end? Happy Morphing, Joe Sleator [promulgator of "The Thread That Wouldn't Die"] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:00:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Rejean V. Drapeau" Subject: Re: MIDI QUEST V5.0 Editor/Librarian HELP PLEASE!!! Hi JMS, Just to let you know - I've got a 486DX2 66 Mhz system, Maxtor 850 MB enhanced IDE drive, with 8MB RAM. I built this system so I know the entire configuration relating to IRQ's etc. At this point, I think I'm going to just go out and buy a Music Quest MQX-16 Midi Interface card. This should hopefully help. Do you own Sound Quest? If so, what instruments do you use with it? How do you like to product? Thanks for your assistance, Reg in NH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:20:01 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: M Comments: To: homer!netcom.com!atomic@AMERICAN.EDU mike, thanks for the word on upbeat, will look elsewhere for algorhythmic rhythmic processing, any starting places you might know about? jeff talman jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:45:30 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: retro:Cross-fad 'ing with greasy knobs or silicon? Joseph Sleator said: >In retro-spect, though, I think Bj#$*rk and Graham may have done >'Army of Me' with a real analog synth and used good ol' fashioned >greasy knobs. I think you may be right. Having gone back and given it another listen, the sound that Graham's synth is making takes me back a bit to the days of my youth. Amazing what a little grease can do. >I wonder when this cross-fad will end? Morph it............................:-) -Gus Gus (Anxiously Curious) Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:20:00 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Milne, Doug" Subject: Re: Morph Simulation Comments: To: EMUSIC-L Try the Composer's Desktop Project 11 Kilburn Road York , UK YO1 4DF Tel 01904 613299 They do all sorts of spectral transformation tools for PC and UNIX machines , also Atari Falcon. Doug. ---------- From: EMUSIC-L To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L Subject: Re: Morph Simulation Date: 26 July 1995 21:08 >on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:15:17 >Gus Alden wrote: >Subject: Question: Morph Simulation > The ability to take two sounds and create a whole range of new sounds through morphing is a very exciting one, even if the processing can only be done on a computer and later transferred to a sampler. If anyone knows of software that will do this (on a PC) I would like to hear about it. I do have Csound, but I must admit to not having made the effort yet to get to grips with it. Regards, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:05:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark G Simon Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: <9507261934.AA18103@acropolis> > Mark Simon said: > > Well, I don't suppose I'm going to be able to make my sample of Bill > > Fox swearing in Greek sound like it's morphing into Jeff Harrington's > > Louisiana accent, but the juxtaposition could be interesting. Hmm... > > I'm still eager to hear what you do with those samples you're making of > visitors. Did you happen to download the samples I made of my nephews? > (On the sgroup ftp site.) Analog Content: Use one sample to vocode and/or > ring modulate the other! (Your S50 has multiple outputs, right?) Bill > Harrington (or is that Jeff Fox?) swearing in cajun with a Greek > accent?!?!? :-) Alas, I don't do nearly enough with them, but this thread is giving me ideas. I'm afraid you're going to have to be more explicit about what you mean by "using one sample to vocode and/or ring modulate the other". My grasp of emusic techniques is not very intuitive and I need to have things spelled out for me in painful detail before I can (duh...) grasp what anyone is talking about. What I was going to do was a not very sophisticated cross-fade using MIDI volume messages to switch between two tracks playing the same melodic figure with different samples. What I neglected to consider was that my S-50 responds so sluggishly to MIDI that all those volume messages would create impossible timing delays. I also figured that if I were going to make any kind of successful faux-morph I would have to carefully choose which portions of the sample I chose to juxtapose. For instance if I were able to find a syllable in both Bill and Jeff's samples where they use the same vowel, I could loop that vowel so that the sustained pitch part of the sound had the same vowel sound in each case. Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud. I like to use samples of people's voices because it's the most distinctive sound a person can make. I usually leave the sample intact and build the rhythm of the piece out of the rhythm of the spoken words. Now I'm contemplating messing around with samples and Bill is going to explain how I can use one sample to vocode the other. I suspect others on the list will be interested in what he has to say. Mark Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:22:56 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Question: Morph Simulation In-Reply-To: <199507270437.AAA27478@river.biddeford.com> from "Gus Alden" at Jul 27, 95 00:38:48 am > It's a Proteus FX. A nice little machine really, but having for a year now > relied almost soley on it's presets for inspiration, it's time for me to > start digging more deeply into it, and see what this baby can do. > First spot to check is the MIDI implementation chart in the back of the manual which will tell you what controllers it will accept. You may find that there are a number of things you can control via (say) an Anatek Pocket Pedal (cheap) or maybe a Digitech MC*2 (more expensive, but more flexible). The FX *may* have assignable controllers, so for instance, you might be able to change sample crossfade, filter cutoff, effects parameters... Not knowing the FX, I can't tell you what is possible, but the manual can. And of course, your sequencer will be able to record the controller events, too. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:22:36 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Caren Buffum Subject: I'm New Here Hi! i just signed on to this list and from the posts I've seen I can see I am over my head in technical stuff. But I hope you will put up with a MIDI mental midget. My purpose in signing on is that I am working on a big musical and hope to lay my own tracks for the show. (I've done some sequencing with friends who have their own equipment -- now I'm on my own). I have a Gateway P5-60 with an Ensoniq wavetable and a midi keyboard (Korg) . My next step is to get some sequencing software. I've shopped around and every store has their favorite, but no one has really been able to give me comparative information or say why their software is better than the next guy's. I am looking for something that will give me friendly control over every aspect of the sound I produce and will also be able to print out scores. Three programs I've already looked at are Cakewalk Pro, QBase, and Notator Logic (I think I've got those names right). I also have to decide if I want a program with an Audio component as I may ultimately want to lay some vocals too. So, anyone with good advice on this, please E-Mail me. thanks! Caren Buffum ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:06:41 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: M >Hee ho hurnk. Wrongo! According to David Zicarelli of OMS fame, Brief aside: David Z. wrote M and worked on UpBeat, but OMS was developed by Doug Wyatt. I have a lot of respect for both these guys. They have an almost unique skill: they Write Code Which WORKS. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:07:10 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post >-> Newcomers beware: You MUST have a morphing license to do this at home! > > I got my morphing licence for music at the >same office where I got my poetic licence for lyrics. Just go back to the office where you got your artistic licence when you started out. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Caren Buffum Subject: I'm New Here I sent this message earlier, before I was actually subscribed and I'm not sure it got through. If this is the second time you're reading this, please ignore it. ---------------------------------------- Hi! i just signed on to this list and from the posts I've seen I can see I am over my head in technical stuff. But I hope you will put up with a MIDI mental midget. My purpose in signing on is that I am working on a big musical and hope to lay my own tracks for the show. (I've done some sequencing with friends who have their own equipment -- now I'm on my own). I have a Gateway P5-60 with an Ensoniq wavetable and a midi keyboard (Korg) . My next step is to get some sequencing software. I've shopped around and every store has their favorite, but no one has really been able to give me comparative information or say why their software is better than the next guy's. I am looking for something that will give me friendly control over every aspect of the sound I produce and will also be able to print out scores. Three programs I've already looked at are Cakewalk Pro, QBase, and Notator Logic (I think I've got those names right). I also have to decide if I want a program with an Audio component as I may ultimately want to lay some vocals too. So, anyone with good advice on this, please E-Mail me. thanks! Caren Buffum ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:53:59 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post I said: > (On the sgroup ftp site.) Analog Content: Use one sample to vocode and/or > ring modulate the other! (Your S50 has multiple outputs, right?) Bill > Harrington (or is that Jeff Fox?) swearing in cajun with a Greek > accent?!?!? :-) And Mark Simon said: > Alas, I don't do nearly enough with them, but this thread is giving me > ideas. I'm afraid you're going to have to be more explicit about what you > mean by "using one sample to vocode and/or ring modulate the other". My > grasp of emusic techniques is not very intuitive and I need to have > things spelled out for me in painful detail before I can (duh...) grasp > what anyone is talking about. While discussing "happy accidents," I forgot who was the target audience and originally posted my answer to Analogue Heaven! (It's been a tough week at work - I don't know if I'm coming or going, or which list gets a response!) So my happy accident is talking analog (vocoding, ring mod) with tongue partially in cheek... > Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud. I like to use samples of > people's voices because it's the most distinctive sound a person can > make. I usually leave the sample intact and build the rhythm of the > piece out of the rhythm of the spoken words. Now I'm contemplating > messing around with samples and Bill is going to explain how I can > use one sample to vocode the other. I suspect others on the list will be > interested in what he has to say. Please continue thinking out loud (or otherwise). Vocoding impresses the frequency spectrum of one sound on another sound. (Did I say that right?) I've never heard it done with two voices as inputs; one is usually a synth pad or noise, something with a wide energy distribution. Vocoding is what you do to make those robotic voices in sci-fi flicks. The analog block diagram of such a device includes many bandpass filters, two at each center frequency. Input 1 feeds one bank and input two feeds another. One bank of filters have their outputs feeding a bank of envelope followers that are used to control a bank of VCAs. The output of the other bank of filters feeds the audio inputs of the VCA bank. The VCA audio outputs are summed (usually) to one output. An ideal vocoder, i.e. one having an infinit number of bandpass filter pairs etc., acts as an all pass filter if white noise is fed into one of its inputs. Ring Modulation is another two input process. It is four quadrant multiplication of the two input signals - AMSC - Amplidude Modulation with Suppressed Carrier. (A VCA is a two quadrant multiplier.) A ring mod is used in analog synthesis to create those klangy sounds. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:33:10 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Morph Simulation In-Reply-To: <30180BE1@dundeegate.dundee.attgis.com> Do you have an address for Atari (either e-mail or snail) alternatively, do you where I can get it? On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Milne, Doug wrote: > Try the > Composer's Desktop Project > 11 Kilburn Road > York , UK > YO1 4DF > Tel 01904 613299 > > They do all sorts of spectral transformation tools for PC and UNIX machines > , also Atari Falcon. > > Doug. > > > ---------- > From: EMUSIC-L > To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L > Subject: Re: Morph Simulation > Date: 26 July 1995 21:08 > > >on Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:15:17 > >Gus Alden wrote: > >Subject: Question: Morph Simulation > > > The ability to take two sounds and create a whole range of new sounds > through morphing is a very exciting one, even if the processing can only be > done on a computer and later transferred to a sampler. If anyone knows of > software that will do this (on a PC) I would like to hear about it. I do > have Csound, but I must admit to not having made the effort yet to get to > grips with it. > > Regards, Mark > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:20:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mace Yampolsky Subject: Re: Mace:Which sampler and why? I don't have a posion yet. I have a Yamaha Mu 80 sound module whoci I use w/ my Ensoniq Sq 80 synthesier and Master tracks6 sequencing program and Music time Notation program. that's it so far but in my next equipment acquisition frenzy, which should be occuring soon. i want to add a sampler the question(s)is /are which one?,Hwo Much and Why? LAet me know . thanks Mace ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:08:54 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mace Yampolsky Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 Are you kidding about the morph license? Please advise I still don't understand what it is but If I read all these messages a few times maybe it will make sense. I thouht it was the suffix of mesomorph,ectomorph or endomorph. Seeya,Mace ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:36:09 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 >Are you kidding about the morph license? Please advise I still don't >understand what it is but If I read all these messages a few times maybe it >will make sense. I thouht it was the suffix of mesomorph,ectomorph or >endomorph. Seeya,Mace > >Oh dear ... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:44:58 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Crossfade equation Hi morphers, this crossfade thang reminds me of the way pan cicuits should (but so often aren't) built. The idea is that across the pan the left and right signals sum to the same (all the way). At the mid-point (pan centre), both left and right should be 3 dB down. (By way of explanation for those who don't know, -3dB is half as loud (watts-wise) as 0dB.) Regards, David "Not on the phone link today!" musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:47:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Rejean V. Drapeau" Subject: Re: I'm New Here Caren, I just bought CakeWalk Pro 3.0 for windows last week after shopping and analyzing software for about 7 months. CakeWalk is pretty much an industry standard in the IBM PC world versus the MAC world. So if you buy that for sequencing you won't go wrong. You can easily find support from people that us it on almost every online service and Twelve Tone Systems even has a Web Page on the Internet you can use to talk to them. As far as using Cakewalk for notation, I think you would be wiser to buy a seperate package that does just that - notation. Cakewalk has notation, but it is not as elaborate as true notation programs. I'm sure they'll improve upon it, but that will take some time. For what you are doing I would go with seperate packages. Good luck, hope this helps, Reg in NH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:17:41 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ronnie Cristobal Subject: Re: I'm New Here Cakewalk 3.0 for windows sucks. Dos version is easire to use. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:40:43 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: I'm New Here >Cakewalk 3.0 for windows sucks. Dos version is easire to use. > >Really? Please be a little more specific. I have cakewalk 3.0, and apart from bank change messages am highly impressed. What does 'easire' mean? What is 'DOS'? signed. A luddite basher. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 03:32:04 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "joseph.r.sleator" Subject: retro:Cross-fad 'ing with greasy knobs or silicon? Howdy eMuJoCkS! Clive McFarland Wrote: >Joseph, everyone else here understands this, but please explain further to >a man of little brain. In what way do the repetitions on 'a' get closer to >'b'? Pitch? If so, does this mean that co-incident notes which have very >different note values will take longer to morph than those which are closer >together in pitch? Yup, Pitch. ( we already talked about timbre, in my last two posts, and I had already said that in the second morphing case we had notes which were identical duration in both sets) I'm sorry if I didn't specify that we were pitch morphing explicitly. I was thinking, if you had a processor who had access to the midi stream you could, say take two streams, assume they correlate event-for-event, then calculate the delta between each note, and the number of steps to take for your morph. It would then be fairly EZ to step by whole semitones of int(notedelta/morphsteps). What would be even more fun is to calculate an absolute frequency of (notedelta/morphsteps) and use a combination of note and bend midi events to 'smoothly' move the pitch of one melody to another! If your sequencer can export midi to text, then import text event lists back in again, the (computer) programming would be almost trivial. Up 'till now I was doing it by hand! Would you like such a thing? ---------------------------------------------------------------- man midimorph MidiMorph [filea.txt] [fileb.txt] [morphsteps] Takes two midi files and metamorphoses one file into the other file, outputting morphsteps iterations of the original. Copyright (c) 1995 JRDS BitWright (Shareware) ----------------------------------------------------------------- a and b contain one loop repetition and the program outputs morphsteps copies of this loop with a morphing 'smoothly' to b. Do you want such a thing? Anyone? >Speak to me gently of control tracks. Ramping velocity values in >EZVision's strip chart I understand, but how are control tracks created and >assigned to channels? Elementary question I'm sure. What I do in my freebie version of CakeWalk (don't blame me, it works great with my soundcard) is, for a given track, open a controller window. Select the controller called Channel Volume (can't recall which controlnum this is, it's been A long time since I wrote the midi controls implementation for the MFX console). Now, with midi recorded onto the track, you just draw across with the control track pencil Icon, (I find it's a bit jittery myself) 'Till you get the volume/time dynamic you want. If you do this for another track with a complimentary timbre, and compensate for the sound intensity nonlinearity which Joe McMahon was talking about by putting a little hump on you curves (honestly, it doesn't need to be rocket-sci accurate in my experience, just humped up at the midway point in the fade) You should have an effective timbre crossfade 'morph' which Graham Massey would be proud of! In retro-spect, though, I think Bj#$*rk and Graham may have done 'Army of Me' with a real analog synth and used good ol' fashioned greasy knobs. I wonder when this cross-fad will end? Happy Morphing, Joe Sleator [promulgator of "The Thread That Wouldn Not Die"] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:00:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Crossfade equation In-Reply-To: <01HTEJYQNJ769BW7W7@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU> from "David Rodger" at Jul 28, 95 12:44:58 pm > this crossfade thang reminds me of the way pan cicuits should (but so often > aren't) built. The idea is that across the pan the left and right signals > sum to the same (all the way). At the mid-point (pan centre), both left > and right should be 3 dB down. (By way of explanation for those who don't > know, -3dB is half as loud (watts-wise) as 0dB.) Yep - the procedure I gave you is cribbed from the pan/crossfade section of Moore's book, but it applies in both cases. (The formula I had to work out; I think that's the first time I've used trig since college.) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:04:41 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: FINALE (fwd) Please address your replies to Paul (Bach42c@AOL.COM). > Dear EMUSIC-L Subscribers, > > My main objective for joining this list is to obtain help with FINALE v.3.0. > I have not found this software very user friendly. I realize that the manuals > help things immensely, but I do not have the manuals. Would someone be so > kind as to e-mail me directly with onformation on how to contact the software > manufacturer, or better still, let me know if someone has written a book on > FINALE? Thank you in advance. > > Paul Kemp > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:50:34 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Douglas Gordon Subject: Re: Crossfade equation Unsbscribe Douglas Gordon Douglas882@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:12:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: RonG225zt@AOL.COM Subject: My new piece and need spoken word I'm looking for someone to write a piece of spoken word for my new composition. Since this is the e-music list I'm going to talk a little (OK a lot) about the content of the piece too, as opposed to just asking for help. I'm going to send an abridged version of this message to some newsgroups and the lyric listserv (if I can find the addresss). If anybody had any suggestions or ideas I'd love to hear from them. A while back I went to a contemporary music concert in Seattle, with pieces by local composers. There were a few acoustic-only works, but most were either electronic or electro-acoustic. Unfortunately, I was sorely disappointed by most of them. Most had good intentions but seemed to be developed poorly. Also, for some reason all the composers felt that they had to do atonal pieces. Now, I love atonality but feel that it is but one of many kinds of music that should be composed in the musical spectrum. I also felt that any people who weren't familiar with e-music and were exposed to such a narrow use of electronics in this genera could shun further computer music concerts. I was commenting on this to one of my friends (who had also attended the concert and felt that most of the composers had used electronics solely for the purpose of creating dissonance and not to actually make the music better) and he challenged me to write a tonal or chromatic piece of music, that used computer or synthesizer generated sounds (or both) and acoustic instruments. After thinking about my possibilities I decided how I wanted to make my music different from other electronic music I've heard/performed. First, I wanted to make it fairly rigid. The acoustic instruments were going to be "conducted" by the computer. There were going to be little or no random elements. Every performance would have to be more or less the same as the others. Second, I wanted the music to be ethereal, my dissonances would float in, not be thrust upon the listener. I've always felt that atonality needed to be set up in such a way that the listener didn't need to have the underlying meaning explained to them, or at least that they didn't wish that they had something else to concentrate on besides the music. As for the instrumentation, I decided on Flute, Oboe, English Horn, Vibraphone and auxiliary percussion (as for aux. perc, at this time I've only used a suspended cymbal. But chimes and buckets of water are looking/sounding very tempting). As for synths, I'm using a Proteus MPS+Orchestral, a Kawai K-1 and a Kawai K-4. They will be sequenced by a Mac 840av and all sequencing will be done in Opcode's Studio Vision. I'll also take advantage of Studio Vision's HD recording to record some sample loops for the piece. The notation for the acoustic instruments will be done in Nightingale. At first I picked a bunch of meaningless sample loops, but I wasn't thrilled by the way they came across. Also, they didn't give any meaning or direction to the piece. I then started looking for samples from movies and TV. I thought I could find something there that would make a good statement and was, of course, wrong. The few samples I did find were distracting (which is what I didn't want) and had to be EQ'd to the point of washout. Then, a simple but brilliant (it felt brilliant after spending zillions of hours in front of my computer screen editing OJ and Red Dwarf). I decided to use spoken word! Not original, but something I've never done. I found some that I liked (Crispin Glover's "Rat Catching," Emelio Cuebero and William S. Burroughs), but realized that there were copyright restrictions, which may be a problem. So, now I'm looking for someone to get a spoken word collaboration with. The music is divided into three sections. The first is computer, oboe, eh and vibes playing slowly with some melodic ideas. The middle section has a simple looped drum pattern, flute and synth part that starts soft and builds to a climax. The end is slow again and has the vibraphone and suspended cymbal being played with a cello bow. This produces an eerie ghost-like effect. I'm hoping to arrange the music in the end around the words. So, there is a run down of my new composition, which is still in progress. Comments/cautions/ideas welcome. Oh yeah, and if you have anything I could use for the spoken word send me an e-mail. Ron rong225zt@aol.com rgeier@tribnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:12:58 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 >What I was going to do was a not very sophisticated cross-fade using MIDI >volume messages to switch between two tracks playing the same melodic >figure with different samples. Being an owner of two Wavestations, I've played with timbral crossfades a lot over the years. My experience is that the result sounds just like a crossfade; the sounds don't mesh. Surprisingly, having a marked pitch difference between them (like 4ths or 5ths) produces a more unified effect. Anyway, I should worry: last week I took delivery of a Mighty Morphin' UltraProteus. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 12:11:15 CET Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacek Latanowicz Subject: Re: Morph Simulation Comments: To: Electronic Music Discussion List In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:24:45 -0700 from On Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:24:45 -0700 Jeff Adkins said: >Joe Sleator wrote: > >< some deleted> >>If all you want to do is morph from one timbre to another, that's easy >>and fun. Get a garden variety multitimbral midi synth, and record >>one midi channel on your sequencer, with a channel volume curve >>through the sequence that ramps down for as long as you want the >>timbral evolution to take. Now duplicate the track, assign it to another >>midi channel, and set its channel volume control curve to ramp up >>for the same time duration. When you play the two tracks (assuming >>you have them both panned to the same position) the first track will >>smoothly change timbre to the second track without the melody or >>time changing. This is sometimes called a timbre crossfade. > >Ok, I tried drawing 2 straight diagonal volume control changes inverted >(127->0, 0->127) within the same time and even with the exact same patches >and channel set-ups, but what I seem to have found out is that two >identically set patches at volume level 63 are not as loud as one at 127. >Iow, the overall volume simply dropped toward the mid point of the process. >Is there a better formula for this? > >--jeff Hello, right, if You take 1 sound that is 60dB and second that it also 60dB (SPL) their overall SPL will be 66dB. (not 120dB as some may think). When f.i. going down from 120dB on one sound and second up from 0dB the overall SPL decreases so the sound volume is lower. You should change the level of sound which is increasing faster than the one that is decreasing. Jacek L. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:51:41 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 >I thouht it was the suffix of mesomorph,ectomorph or >endomorph. That's right. You get your basic morph license first, and then you can get it stamped with the other specific applications later. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 15:31:28 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Morph Simulation...Bjork Post TR. 1 In-Reply-To: On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Nick Rothwell wrote: > > Being an owner of two Wavestations, I've played with timbral crossfades a > lot over the years. My experience is that the result sounds just like a > crossfade; the sounds don't mesh. Surprisingly, having a marked pitch > difference between them (like 4ths or 5ths) produces a more unified effect. This pitch difference causes one sound to strengthen the overtones of the other. A spectral analysis of both sounds would be helpfur in this respect for 'true' sound morphing, I think it has been suggested by someone already, on this thread. Uri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Thomas E. Rudolph." Subject: Re: FINALE (fwd) There are some excellent videos on Finale available. Contact Advanced Techologies, ask for Greg Smith. The catalog also has some books on the program - 1-800-348-5003. I've been using Finale for 5 years. It does have a somewhat steep learning curve, but hang in there - it is a powerful, flexible notation program. Tom Rudolph ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:52:06 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Travis Pollard <73553.1146@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: FINALE (fwd) >There are some excellent videos on Finale available. Contact Advanced >Techologies, ask for Greg Smith. The catalog also has some books on the >program - 1-800-348-5003. >I've been using Finale for 5 years. It does have a somewhat steep learning >curve, but hang in there - it is a powerful, flexible notation program. >Tom Rudolph Who makes Finale and how much does it go for. I've been using Music Time from Passport and hate it. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:15:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Hello All. Hi All, I'm Timothy Kelly writing in Houston, Texas. I got started in synths years ago when they were just punch cards and later, lots of patch cords. My first music computer was the C64. I now use 2 Amigas and an IBM in my project studio. I have an entire wall of music software, and a couple of rooms full of synths, sound modules, midi guitars and midi voice controllers. I also have an ADAT, a few DATS, multitrack cassettes, ete. I write a lot of songs, also a lot of instrumental stuff. My favorite musical hobby next to composing is synth sound editing. I love messing with patches, tweaking them and creating new ones. Right now the 2 synths I'm using the most are the Sound Canvas, and the Emu Morpheus. I always edit in real time, usually just humming or scat singing with my voice controller. I am president of MidiVox. Market MidiVox worldwide. I also teach singing, guitar, synth programming, songwriting, arranging, electronic music composing, ete. I use my own textbooks and instructional tapes. Looking forward to discussing and sharing tips, ideas, ete on all aspects of EMUSIC. Thanks for reading. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 18:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: RonG225zt@AOL.COM Subject: Re: FINALE (fwd) There's also a cool notation program for Mac called Nightingale. It's easier than Finale and has a scanning option (Coda's been promising that for years now...). It seems capable of doing everything Finale can do. I use both Finale and Encore and can't stand either one. I just bought a copy and it should be here Monday. comments/horror stories would be appreciated... Ron rong225zt@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 21:35:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ian Simon Subject: Re: Hello All. Hi Timothy, I read your post and it sounds like you have lots of experience with synth programming. I am a guitarist that entered the midi realm about 3 years ago and I love it. I do mostly sequencing since I don't have much opportunity to play live these days. I use a Sound Canvas and a Wavestation SR. I've had my eye on the Morpheus (and Ultra Proteus) since they came out. My problem is that I am having a very difficult time learning how to program my own sounds. I've read many books and use Unisyn to edit patches on my Mac. Most of the time I just end up dragging the graphs around until I get it to sound the way I want (not scientific, but effective!). I'd really like to learn how to program sounds from the ground up, starting with the sample or wave and using the various filters to shape the sound. Can you suggest any books or courses that can take me through this? I think I understand the basics, I just need to learn how to apply them in real situations. Thanks in advance. Ian Simon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:29:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Julia Miller Subject: Re: FINALE (fwd) Dear Paul if you have any specific question (i.e. notation modes, how to do specific notational concepts,etc.) you can email me at jamz69@aol.com. Also, the ph# for Coda is 800-843-2066 or 612-937-9611. Good luck Julia Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 22:45:20 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Julia Miller Subject: Re: Hello All. Dear Timothy Am very interested in your voice controller and also your textbooks. Please email me w/ more info. Thanks!! Julia Miller jamz69@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 09:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Caren Buffum Subject: Re: My new piece and need spo... Ron- Can you be more specific about the kind of lyrics (spoken words) you want for your composition. It sounds very interesting, and I have done quite a bit of writing (lyrics and prose) but even with a description of your piece, it's not clear what theme/tone/concept you have for the content of the words. Where you want the piece to go may determine the right person -- and words. I doubt I already have written anything appropriate, and you may receive something from someone, but at any rate, I'd be interested in hearing what you're thinking. Caren Buffum ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 10:20:53 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Synth Programming 1. You wrote: > >My problem is that I am having a very difficult time learning how to program >my own sounds. I've read many books and use Unisyn to edit patches on my Mac. >Most of the time I just end up dragging the graphs around until I get it to >sound the way I want (not scientific, but effective!). Hi Ian, Yes, not scientific but very effective. One starts with a basic sound. Then one usually is 1. either tweaking the sound, making custom variations. 2. or just coming up with a new sound, which ends up sounding nothing like the original. I'd really like to >learn how to program sounds from the ground up, starting with the sample or >wave and using the various filters to shape the sound. Can you suggest any >books or courses that can take me through this? I think I understand the >basics, I just need to learn how to apply them in real situations. > >Thanks in advance. One can buy books that explain the different types of ways synths produce sounds, or the different systems the major manufactors have. Basicly you have hit the heart of all of them, no matter what Roland, or Yamaha, ete may call the same things, one is just starting with a sample of some sort and then just modifying the playback. There are very few books out that talk about programming sounds at all. And the manufactors could easily put a 2 page chart in their synth manuals listing when you want to do this to a sound, change this. As it stands out now, someway you have to teach yourself sound programing by just doing it. It helps to find a way to organize sounds in a way that makes sence to you. Some possible ways to approach this are. 1. Working with sounds in musical instrument families, say as brass and woodwinds ete. All edits done to any brass patch will have a similar effect, ete. 2. Another great way is to forget about the real world sound and just look at the synth model of the sound. Look at and compare sounds by the graphic shape of their envelopes. Edits done to sounds with similar shaped envelopes will give similar results. 3. If you can then end up with a list or chart expressing sound edits in descriptive adjectives - to make the sound brighter, darker, faster, slower, fatter, ete, then one develops not just a sonic sense of the sound, but a visual sense as well. Thats why using graphic editing software on a computer can speed everything up so much when one is studying sound programming. You can see and hear changes at the same time. I'll have to go into my synth library and compile a list of useful books. I have never seen a written course in synth programming anywhere. Anyone know of one? or have any books they have found very useful? Is there already a list archived somewhere? Thanks for reading. I'll post my personal list in a couple of days. Happy Sounds, Timothy Kelly > >Ian Simon > -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 12:20:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: isor Subject: A Specific Type of Movie Sample In-Reply-To: <950730092834_126246514@aol.com> HellOW! A million times i've heard samples of females making loud noises of pain or pleasure in music and it happens so much i hate it w/ a passion. So i thought, why not do the reverse? Anyway, I'm looking for a movie where i can find an adult male being yelled at and screaming in agony from pain while a female adult laughs at him. If you know of any movies where i can find such dialog please email me. If you know of a movie that is just about some female ripping (slowly) a male to shreds (from head to toe) please give me the title. post script - it need not be in english! Love Eric Allen Seale of ISOR magazine ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 22:38:08 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wes Loveday Subject: Re: Hello All. sounds like an interesting product Tim! Wes Loveday -Keys/guitar/vocals! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:36:19 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: A Specific Type of Movie Sample >Anyway, I'm looking for a movie where i >can find an adult male being yelled at and screaming in agony from pain >while a female adult laughs at him. Movie: nuthin'. Story of my life, Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:49:12 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Theodore Subject: Q: The elements of phasing? A friend of mine has a Yamaha EMP-100 multi-effects processor. It's a great little unit, but it doesn't have any "phaser" presets; most of the ones that come close are types of chorusing, flanging, or tremolo. This thing has a wealth of editable parameters and I have been trying to construct my own phase patch (think of the sound that was popular on a lot of albums from the 70's - guitar type stuff). For example, the patch I've come up with has very little delay (.9 msec), a slow LFO speed, etc. Close, but not quite. Am I missing something here? I've seen some of the adjustable parameters on phase units and noticed this toggle switch that allows the user to switch between 6 and 10 stage phase shift. What's this? Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks, - Chris theodorec@vaxvmsx.babson.edu---------------------------------ITSD Help Desk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 21:41:14 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: Q: The elements of phasing? Says Chris: >A friend of mine has a Yamaha EMP-100 multi-effects processor. It's a >great little unit, but it doesn't have any "phaser" presets; most of the >ones that come close are types of chorusing, flanging, or tremolo. This >thing has a wealth of editable parameters and I have been trying to >construct my own phase patch (think of the sound that was popular on a lot >of albums from the 70's - guitar type stuff). > >For example, the patch I've come up with has very little delay (.9 msec), >a slow LFO speed, etc. Close, but not quite. Am I missing something here? > >I've seen some of the adjustable parameters on phase units and noticed this >toggle switch that allows the user to switch between 6 and 10 stage phase >shift. What's this? Says Mark: I think you need a little pitch mudulation (sic) as well as the delay. I believe the family of FX including Chorus and Flange are based on tape FX whereby the Tape is slowed down against the original. The slowing down would both delay and drop the pitch. Without the pitch change I think you just get less of the effect. Does that sound right?