========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 20:54:11 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Admin FAQs V1.2 (Last changed 9 July 1995) Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU This is the third posting of the new V1.2 Administrative FAQ document. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: Long Document (411 lines, 3119 words, about 7 pages)-------------- EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Administration This document is posted approximately every two weeks. It is intended that this document should answer many of the questions asked by newcomers to the lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin Russ, at: mruss@midi.dungeon.com This is Issue 1.2. 9 July 1995. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Added since issue 1.1. 11 June 1995: - Reply to List or Author (messages, 2/3) - Mike Metlay returns as list co-moderator (background, 1/3) - Rough index of topics covered (index, start) Added since issue 1.0. 14 May 1995: - AOL subscriber problems with unsubscribing and digest changes (subs, end) - Contributor list (end) TOPIC INDEX**************************************************************** - Background - Max - Soundcards - Music mailing lists - Messages - Subscriptions etc BACKGROUND***************************************************************** "What are the EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L lists for?"***************************** EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are for the discussion of electronic music in general: its history, practitioners past and present, equipment, techniques, trends, research, development, resources, you name it. They exist as a 'post-moderated' alternative to the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup. (post-moderated means that the moderators monitor what is posted, and sometimes remind posters about the 'rules': see below for the 'rules'). A digest is also available for each list. This collects all the postings for a day into one e-mailing. "Who are the moderators?"************************************************** Joe McMahon and Mike Metlay have been on here for over seven years. Their aim is to keep the mail flowing and the illegal and blatantly out-of-line traffic to a minimum. Joe can be contacted at: mcmahon@clark.net Mike can be contacted at: atomic@netcom.com "So, can I post anything I feel like?"************************************* Well, no. There are some RULES. The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary (and more the subject of SYNTH-L). What we are concerned with on EMUSIC-L is the music, composing, and related topics. Therefore: 1) Ads are not permitted on EMUSIC-L. Advising someone as to whether they are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise, use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK. Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on SYNTH-L. Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside information on a new product or upgrade. Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording, and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention is marginally acceptable; a short mention in a signature file is fine.) Here's a quick summary (it goes from 'admirable' to 'not acceptable'): - A ONE-TIME post mentioning that you have completed a CD or tape and a summary of experiences/etc. in making the recording is admirable. - An article which contributes to the discussion on the list AND contains a signature file which mentions CD/tape/album availability is acceptable. - Repeated postings saying nothing but "My recording is available" are bad. - Outright ads for records you did not make, hardware, software, used cars, etc. are very bad. 2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are useful. Mutual admiration societies are not. 3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that, take it to e-mail, or just forget about it. 4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a little humor on the list; however, the list owner(s) (Joe McMahon at the moment) will maintain the final say as to the subject matter on the list and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous discussions. 5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That is the administrators' job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Joe, or to the offender, use private mail. 6) The listowner(s) are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the quality of discussion on this list. "How did EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L start?"************************************** Perhaps a bit of ancient history is in order here, to show where these lists come from and why they are the way they are.... Many moons ago, when there was for all practical purposes no such thing as the Internet (and there were certainly few or no commercial online services), people had access to cyberspace only through a set of large but mutually exclusive network protocols, generally provided by and germane to their place of education or work. One of these was the USENET hierarchy of UNIX machines at universities and laboratories and a few commercial sites; another was BITNET, an international mail system for mainframe computers used by scientists. Communication between the two systems was possible only in a crude and roundabout manner, so they developed separate systems for dealing with the same needs. In a rough, very general sense, USENET developed the news hierarchy and BITNET developed list servers and mailing lists; in the subfield of electronic music, USENET had the once-quite-small newsgroup rec.music.synth and BITNET had EMUSIC-L. The 'feel' of these groups was in concert with the sort of people using them; rec.music.synth was more open, with college students and commercial users, whereas EMUSIC-L tended toward academic users. This tended to shape the level of discussion and the topics covered, but keep in mind that early on, the overlap between the two groups was relatively small. Some time later, as reliable gateways between BITNET and the rest of the growing Internet allowed for the redistribution of newsgroups as mailing lists, SYNTH-L was launched as a gateway of rec.music.synth posts, so BITNET users without USENET access could enjoy the news there. It was a short, hard-learned lesson; the lack of moderation and the huge number of news articles delivered as email (!) knocked many prospective users for a loop. It wasn't all that long before the USENET feed was cut and the gateways to the news hierarchy were removed, isolating SYNTH-L and effectively removing its reason for existence. At that point, with Joe's blessing, Mike stepped in as conceptual 'parent' of SYNTH-L, and began to promote it as a nice middle ground between EMUSIC-L's often rarified discussions and the daily mayhem on rec.music.synth (now rec.music.makers.s). It was semi-moderated, so postings stayed (by and large) polite and focussed, but long discussions of gear, software, technical problems, and so forth that were considered a waste of time by many EMUSIC-L readers were encouraged, and over the years since then a de facto division between the two groups, and a healthy relationship, has settled into place. It's true that the divisions between topics for the two groups are occasionally blurry, but that's something most folks simply learn to live with and get a feel for. "Is SYNTH-L supposed to be technical discussion of synthesizers?"********** "Does EMUSIC-L cover electronic music in general?"************************* Very roughly, SYNTH-L is for the detailed technical talk, like gear for sale, where to download patches, whether synth A is better than synth B (whatever 'better' means), technical problems and solutions, and so on. SYNTH-L is the stuff that people on EMUSIC-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss electronic music. Conversely, EMUSIC-L is for all the serious (and sometimes not so serious) philosophical discussion on electronic music in its widest sense. EMUSIC-L is the stuff that people on SYNTH-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss gear. In both cases, one could say that this sort of discussion has its place, but people sometimes like to see it, and sometimes don't. All the EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L division purports to do is allow an approximate separation between the snobs and the plebs. Where people take that is up to them. It's true that there seems to be no set focus or set of aims in these lists. That's deliberate. We are like-minded individuals looking for someone intelligent and knowledgeable to talk to, and the topics range all over the place, as well they should in such a forum. One shouldn't expect any kind of focus in an environment where anything is a potential topic for discussion. "What's the point? It's not what I expected!"****************************** The point is that we don't want you to have unreasonable expectations of what EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are 'for'; they are what they are, and most people seem content to enjoy them as they are or guide them elsewhere, either for a while or for good... A good starting point for finding out what the electronic music of EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L is all about is the EMUSIC-L World Wide Web page at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. MAX************************************************************************ "What is MAX, anyway?"***************************************************** MAX is a software toolkit which gives a real-time, interactive, graphical development environment for multimedia, music (and more). Programs are 'written' by connecting together graphical objects, rather than typing text. Typical applications for MAX include: Editors and Librarians for MIDI equipment; Compositional Tools; Utilities for analysing musical performance; and much more. MAX is often mentioned in these lists. It currently exists in variants for the Unix environment and on the Apple Macintosh, although a petition has been mentioned within these lists for a Windows version - contact JOEL STERN on stern@email.loc.gov or j.stern11@geis.genie.com for details. For more information on the Macintosh version, you should try contacting your nearest Opcode dealer. (Opcode distribute MAX for the Mac). Opcode also have a World Wide Web page at : http://www.rahul.net/opcode/index.html. There is also a MAX listserv. Send a message to listserv@vm1.mcgill.ca with a Subject of: Subscribe Max, and the message text: SUBSCRIBE MAX You will then receive daily digests of postings to the MAX list. SOUNDCARDS***************************************************************** "Where do I find information on Soundcards?"******************************* Information on soundcards for personal computers can be found in the following Usenet newsgroup(s)" comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.GUS. MUSIC MAILING LISTS******************************************************** "Anyone know a good MUSIC discussion group on ?"********* The best place for discussion of almost any group, band, artiste, performer, musician (you get the idea), is the Usenet newsgroups. Try: alt.fan. MESSAGES******************************************************************* "Should I respond to a message on the list?"******************************* The whole point of this list is that we attract people who are smart enough to make these decisions for themselves, and do. You can be one of them, if you let yourself. Think and decide for yourself, make mistakes, correct them, learn, move on, and enjoy the trip. Or, if you're paralyzed by fear of doing or saying something wrong, you can choose to lurk forever. Please also read the "So, can I post anything I feel like?" 'Rules' section of this document before posting anything to the list. "How do I send a message to the list?"************************************* For EMUSIC-L, you send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic. For SYNTH-L, you send your posting to synth-l@american.edu. Should I reply to the List or the Author?********************************** Questions posted by people who are not long-term subscribers to a mailing list often say something like 'please reply privately' or 'please respond off-list'. This usually has two effects: (1) Probably lots of repetition in the responses! (2) The rest of the list never hearing about what might be an interesting topic. Replies are a valuable asset to the list members! So an unsubscribed person contributes very little to the list, and probably wastes quite a lot of time sorting through the responses. An unsubscribed person is also unlikely to post a summary of the received replies back to the list. Edited summaries can be very valuable assets to the list members. Unless a response is really private in content, it is probably best to post it to the List, not the Author. This encourages people to subscribe; provides a wide variety of potentially useful information; and discourages unsubscribed people from posting queries to a list. Most importantly, it is often replies to a question which trigger off some of the most useful discussions. Replying privately just short-circuits this process. Sometimes adverts are posted to the SYNTH-L list (EMUSIC-L does not welcome adverts) as part of a 'shotgun' approach, where all the music-related lists and newsgroups receive the same advert. In this case it is best to reply directly to the Author of the original advert rather than the List. Off-topic advertisements, chain letters, and other annoyances will be dealt with by the list administrators. There is no need to reply to or comment on these - it just adds extra 'noise' to the mailing list. The SYNTH-L and EMUSIC-L mailing lists went to 'subscriber-posting-only' on the 6th of July 1995. This means that postings are only accepted from people who have formally subscribed to the lists. This will not prevent all adverts, chain letters etc (see above), but it should help to keep the list clear of many of them. "Where is the archive of FAQs kept?"*************************************** This is a new document (as of May 1995). As the maintainer adds new questions this document will be revised, and some questions and answers may be removed. You will be able to ftp the full FAQ file from the Internet. SUBSCRIPTIONS************************************************************** "How do I unsubscribe?"**************************************************** For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB SYNTH-L as the body. Again, no special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). "How do I subscribe?"****************************************************** To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail message to listserv@american.edu with the text SUB EMUSIC-L where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the other list members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. "How do I subscribe to the daily digest?"********************************** If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST where "" should be replaced by your first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Note that these two commands should be on separate lines: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST so that the listserv will interpret them correctly. Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the otherlist members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. "How do I unsubscribe from the full list and subscribe to the digest?"***** If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L instead of the message-by-message form, just send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST You will then get one message per day, which consists of a list of topics, followed by all the messages which have been posted in the previous 24 hours. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. AOL subscribers may experience some problems in changing their subscription details via the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot change to a digest then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). Contributors:************************************************************** Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Ned Kartchner, Clive McFarland and others --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Russ EMUSIC-L & SYNTH-L Admin FAQ Maintainer mruss@midi.dungeon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 09:36:00 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marc Resibois Subject: Re: Kyma? Hi Tom ! | | Are you a Kyma user, have you been? Please illuminate me. I got another card | from them this week. | Unfortunately, I do not have the Kyma system on my musical desktop. However, the thing seems to be damn great. The only thing that makes me hesitate for buying one is : - The price ( + the fact I just bhough a DP/4 ;) - The impossibility to have a demo here in Belgium. I would have to buy it directly from the US and I'm a bit nervous about doing it. That put on the side, the product _seems_ like you will never buy synth anymore ;) Hope this helps, -+-> Marc. <100126,1007> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 08:07:30 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Dancers In-Reply-To: <950813172101_73477819@aol.com>; from "Wired4Soun@AOL.COM" at Aug 13, 95 5:21 pm These are the graceful words of Wired4Soun@AOL.COM: ->>>I'm trying to get my head around how dancers cue ->and mark time from musical cues which are part of what I improvise -> ->>>_Dancers_ who improvise are rare, but lots of fun! The classically trained ->ones have been told their whole lives how to do exactly every move. ->Improvising is nowhere in there lexicon. Dancers and race horses...nah. Never ->mind :> In a private meeting once between Franz Liszt (to tie two threads) and Richard Wagner, it is said that the two began to discuss Beethoven. Soon the discussion had become a session, with Lizst pounding out the full orchestral score (I forget which peice) on the piano, and Wagner (picture this:) improvising balletic flourishes all around the room! Man, that must have been quite a sight! Anyway, I guess it can be done! :-) -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:10:52 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: MASTERS (de)BATE >without a public, art is merely another form of masturbation. (substitute >your own form of personal therapy here if that offends you) Very strong imagery here. I surrender. However, the picture of an artist fated to a life of masturbation because his art is out of context with the public that surrounds him saddens me. Should he conform? Should he allow market forces to reshape his art? Or shall he admit to himself that his efforts are futile, and spend the rest of his days drinking cheap beer and staring into his television, watching his country crumble? I was listening to 'Echoes' (a program out of Philadelphia devoted to e-music) on the radio Saturday Night. 'Revolutionary electronic music from Germany' was being introduced. What ensued was yet another tour de force of synthetic new age space cadet muzak. I thought, where is the revolution? What kind of beer have they been drinking? Is electronic music nothing more than a means for putting the latest technological wizardry on display. Nothing more than sheen and timbre? Is there no e-music with teeth being written today? Music that inspires passion and awakens the soul within, alerting the listener rather than placating him into a listless numbness? Master, where are you? Or are you busy m.........oh, never mind. Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:26:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bob McMurray Subject: Re: MASTERS (de)BATE In-Reply-To: Gus Alden "Re: MASTERS (de)BATE" (Aug 14, 11:10am) On Aug 14, 11:10am, Gus Alden wrote: > > Is electronic music nothing more than a means for putting the latest > technological wizardry on display. Nothing more than sheen and timbre? Is > there no e-music with teeth being written today? Music that inspires > passion and awakens the soul within, alerting the listener rather than > placating him into a listless numbness? > > Master, where are you? Or are you busy m.........oh, never mind. > > Gus is right. Too often in this list, and in other places the musicians are obsessed with timbre, sound quality, and just wierd effects... With being a synthesist as opposed to a musician. That's fine. I'll admit that I too spend way to much energy on this stuff too. It's kewl. But I think the work of a master stands out in that it could be played on a trio of piccolos and a garbage can lid and still sound phenomenal. Beethoven and Mozart never built their own String Intruments, nor did they spend endless hours tweaking them. Hell, you could play some Beethoven stuff on a ply-wood Cello, and be impressive. I think that maybe it's time (At least for me) to put away the soldering iron, stop buying new equipment and effects, and start really composing. Asbestos Lining in place? Check. Emergency Fire-Hose? Check. 911 Ready? Check. Whoa baby, TheBob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:04:44 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" > If it was so at odds with the synths, why buy one? One lives and learns. Hell, peruse the second-hand column of any magazine. I don't see any stigma with that. Your mileage may well differ, but for me a sampler is a complication, and one I do not need right now. I can be creative without one, and wish to focus in different directions. >If this kind of problem >is at all common someone should tell Kurzweil to keep the synth engine and >the sampler in different devices for pete's sake..What WERE they thinking? I don't have a particular problem with Kurzweil's approach with the K2000 (apart from the fact that I find the instrument close to unusable); that kind of integration is fine if done properly. My point is really that synthesis and sampling require radically different mindsets, just as photography and painting do. My feeling is that it is possible to integrate them, but one does so by learning to context-switch efficiently and quickly, not by compromising. (That probably sounds like bullshit. Sorry. The Edinburgh Fringe opened this evening and I'm just back from the Press call, and totally smashed.) Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:48:14 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matthew Ross Davis X-Secret Message: Robot King Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:48:54 +0100 To: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mdavis@qrc.com (Matthew Ross Davis) Subject: Re: MASTERS (de)BATE >I think that maybe it's time (At >least for me) to put away the soldering iron, stop buying >new equipment and effects, and start really composing. I definitely agree. Like when schoenberg first started, he held that his tone row system was to be used to create music, not as an end in and of itself. He said that the driving force behind using the tone row should be as a tool to make the musical statement you want to make. I think this applies similarly to electronic and electro-acoustic music as well. Matthew Ross Davis, WWW Design and Editing Quantum Research Corporation mdavis@qrc.com, (301) 657-3070 http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/mdavis.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:52:13 EST Reply-To: STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: RE: MEANINGLESS SAMPLE LOOPS From: JOEL STERN Subject: Re: MEANINGLESS SAMPLE LOOPS Sez Nick about his sampler: >Having it alongside six or seven synthesisers was actually confining, >because it demanded a different mindset and set of experiences and >techniques and detracted from my concentration on working with the >synthesisers (which is a different technique).Only when it was gone >did I feel comfortable again. Funny, I felt just the opposite. It wasn't until I had a sampler that I began to find my feet in electronic music. A sampler is a digital synthesizer that isn't restricted to a limited set of PCM waveforms. Most samplers have limits imposed by their processing architecture. But if you have some synths with great sound creation architecture, and some samplers with good editing software, you're doing pretty well in the sonic palette department. Joel Stern stern@email.loc.gov j.stern11@genie.geis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 10:59:22 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Lorne Hammond Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" In-Reply-To: Re different mindsets/dance/etc/& sampling. Nick do check out the CDs of teh scores used by the Montreal dance troupe La La La Human Steps, sample city & synths, plus heavy guitar. Edward locke? Anyhow I don't find samplers that different. I see them as keyboard controlled tape decks that can provide natural world sounds as an audio backdrop for the synths. Very complimentary, if it is painting ,then they provide the wash or background. I don't use them for lead, okay I don't use them at all with the #@$#@$%%$#-broken akai PROPRIETARY disk drive, still available for an outrageous price and the only substitute is now out of production, etc... sssssssamplers ssssssamplers are yer friends frrr frrrr frrriends [machine failure...blink, blink, blink, reboot, beep] Lorne ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:06:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 26Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE > However, the picture of an artist > fated to a life of masturbation because his art is out of context with the > public that surrounds him saddens me. > > Should he conform? Should he allow market forces to reshape his art? the problem is that in certain circumstances the public will not allow a master to emerge. conforming to market forces means abandoning mastership. an analogy from history is relevant. after the collapse of rome in the late 400's there were a series of 4 generals over the course of about 90 years each of whom restored the borders of the empire against the invasions from the east. all four of these generals were executed by their respective emperors on account of imagined plots of mutiny, and thus by choice the greatest state of communication and commerce in human history to that time disappeared and fragmented. everyone thought they were acting in their own best interests and they destroyed an entire civilization. though not so tragical in and of itself, any master who might emerge today would probably receive similar treatment - he would not be allowed to survive on the production of his works. the structure of the current market forces demand instantaneous comprehensibility which is antithetical to the idea of profundity and depth characteristic of something like the late beethoven quartets. thus looking for a master in the present situation is like looking for a whale in a goldfish bowl. as for what to do? do what you want to! eventually (probably not in our lifetimes) a language will develop which will tolerate a level of expression not currently possible. the number of centuries it took to generate a language for beethoven is not often considered. what do you suppose guido d'arrezzo (the man who invented music notation) would have done if the theme for beethoven's fifth symphony had occurred to him? given his ability to notate which was severely restricted compared to current standards he probably would have laughed and forgotten about it. and if guido is not a master, than who was? we are all impossible without his work, yet you don't here much of it anymore.... mastership is entirely contextual. when the sun goes becomes a nova and blows up what good is the magic flute going to be to the residents of XXYYZ galaxy? (who knows if they can even hear?) etc. in otherwords, don't get down about it, just enjoy yourself. music is still one of the best ways to pass the time between birth and death! mt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ian Tilbury Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" >(That probably sounds like bullshit. Sorry. The Edinburgh Fringe opened >this evening and I'm just back from the Press call, and totally smashed.) > > Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com At last some simple,direct and honest dialogue in the sampler/loops threads. Samplers and loops are a reality. Many people find them liberating. They have created several genres, generating large record sales and obviously a lot of pleasure. Not to mention money. In techno the search for the elusive drum loop proves less offensive whilst in Rap the search for the elusive musical loop presents the larger problem of artistic integrity. Capitalism to the rescue once again. The amount of money in todays market place quickly established a sampling criteria which has spawned a business in and of itself and provides the original artist with compensation. Samplers and loops are embedded in todays electronic music whether we want to admit it or not. This might be the time to broaden our attitudes rather the try to continually blinker this forum. My $.02c possibly .03c Ian Tilbury. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:51:23 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wired4Soun@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kyma? >>>>The only thing that makes me hesitate for buying one is : - The price ( + the fact I just bhough a DP/4 ;) - The impossibility to have a demo here in Belgium. I would have to buy it directly from the US and I'm a bit nervous about doing it. >>I'm so "live-oriented" that I can't justify the cost or the studio aspect of the more exotic systems. I've gotta be portable to be profitable. My Mac Duo may change my attitude, but so far, it has not gained my trust. Max is rising to the top of my wish list. Tom Jordan Wired for Sound! - computer music for kids ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:17:24 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Max & MPS+ editor Is there a Demo version of MAX? And as well...there used to be a patch editor for the Proteus that I'd like to use on my MPS+. Any leads that anyone knows of? Thanks Matthew Ross Davis, WWW Design and Editing Quantum Research Corporation mdavis@qrc.com, (301) 657-3070 http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/mdavis.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:42:36 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE > > However, the picture of an artist > > fated to a life of masturbation because his art is out of context with the > > public that surrounds him saddens me. > > > > Should he conform? Should he allow market forces to reshape his art? > >the problem is that in certain circumstances the public will not allow a >master to emerge. conforming to market forces means abandoning mastership > .............any master who might emerge today >would probably receive similar treatment - he would not be allowed to >survive on the production of his works. > >the structure of the current market forces demand instantaneous >comprehensibility which is antithetical to the idea of profundity............. But hold on, there is masterful work being written these days...Henryk Gorecki, Arvo Part, to name two...Gorecki's 3rd Symphony was acclaimed in Rolling Stone, and apparently became quite popular in England. The symphony is heartbreakingly grand. Arvo Part's music is transcendent. Many would agree that Keith Jarrett is a master of piano improvisation. Ofcourse, when we speak of mastery, it's all very subjective. You might brush off their work as trivial. Someone else might refer to Kurt Cobain as a genius. For the moment atleast, I accept your thesis that contemporary culture is incapable of producing mastery. Still, I wonder who, in the field of electronic or elecro-acoustic music, is producing work that stands above the rest, music that challenges and inspires the human spirit. Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 16:48:42 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dustin McIntyre Subject: Re: When my sampler was knee high to a... >>(That probably sounds like bullshit. Sorry. The Edinburgh Fringe opened this evening and I'm just back from the Press call, and totally smashed.)<< You're right. It does sound like b.s. (to me anyway, I cautiously add). K2000 virtually unusable? How much simpler can an instrument's design get? What specifically is so vexing on the unit, if you don't mind my asking? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 26Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE > >the structure of the current market forces demand instantaneous > >comprehensibility which is antithetical to the idea of profundity.... > > But hold on, there is masterful work being written these days...Henryk > Gorecki, Arvo Part, to name two...Gorecki's 3rd Symphony was acclaimed in > Rolling Stone, and apparently became quite popular in England. The symphony > is heartbreakingly grand. Arvo Part's music is transcendent. Many would > agree that Keith Jarrett is a master of piano improvisation. Ofcourse, when > we speak of mastery, it's all very subjective. You might brush off their > work as trivial. Someone else might refer to Kurt Cobain as a genius. I have no doubt that there are many geniuses alive today, statistically there must be more than there have been anytime earlier in human history. the question is: to what extent and in what manner are they allowed to express themselves? can they do it in such a way as to build a future based on their achievements? I think if you consider it carefuly you will find the answer to be no even with the examples you cited (some of which I have significant difficulty with, e.g. gorecki who was a bottom rate composer when he was doing avant garde music and has not improved much by rejecting that style). if a large audience is sufficient for mastery, than the Beatles have reached that standard. will they continue to be relevant? or will they remain merely an expression of their time? will they provide material upon which others can build and thereby survive as the recognizable source of a tradition? It seems doubtful to me. they exhausted themselves and apparently could not continue. Elvis, on the other hand almost single handedly changed the entire nature of music, and is the apparent source of the entire popular music tradition. if you look at popular music prior to elvis you will only see big bands (the followout from post-wagnerian writing) and neo-chamber music type tango bands. is it not ironic that he was quoted as saying "I don't know much about music, in my business you don't have to". The man who redifined the entire industry admits to the irrelevance of music itself. > > For the moment atleast, I accept your thesis that contemporary culture is > incapable of producing mastery. Still, I wonder who, in the field of > electronic or elecro-acoustic music, is producing work that stands above > the rest, music that challenges and inspires the human spirit. how can they do this if in fact there is no common language which the audience would understand? how persuasive would you be in this argument if you wrote only in ancient mayan? My statements are not merely a series of bashings of contemporary culture, but rather an objective analysis of the situation as I see it. without a common language and a unified audience the whole concept of "master" becomes meaningless. genius there may be in abundance, but it is irrelevant! mt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 17:04:11 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: JESQUIVE@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU Subject: Re: New Powers Music --- Online Zine Check out "so-deep" mailing list and on the internet. Theres alot of good stuff out there. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:08:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Julia Miller Subject: Re: No Subject >I've received a number of requests for information on SoundHandle. Could you relay this to your list so I won't have to respond to everyone? SoundHandle is now at version 1.0.3. It is for the Macintosh only and requires System 7. It allows for recording, playing, displaying, analyzing and modifying sounds. It is available at the standard Internet Macintosh archive sites: mac.archive.umich.edu, sumex-aim.stanford.edu and their many mirrors. Thanks, Dale ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:49:50 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE Hi Marshall... > My statements are not merely a series of bashings of contemporary culture Oh, good! > but rather an objective analysis of the situation as I see it. As you see the situation, I presume, not as you see the objective analysis. BTW, folks, I referred to Mozart as having written the same piece over and over again. Perhaps a little harsh. I'd forgotten about Arvo Part! (Flamebait!) Regards David Rodger, | Fax: +61-3-9479-3651 (mark "ATT.: David Rodger") Music Department, | E-mail: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au School of Art and Media, | La Trobe University | "It was a boot failure ... Bundoora VIC 3083 | commonly called getting your feet wet!" Australia | -- Chris Lai ** Off-line and unsub'd from 29 Aug to 31 Oct 1995, Australian Eastern Standard Time ** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:31:49 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" >Samplers and loops are embedded in todays electronic music whether we want >to admit it or not. I have no problem with that. It's just they aren't embedded in mine. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:31:59 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE >the structure of the current market forces demand instantaneous >comprehensibility which is antithetical to the idea of profundity and depth >characteristic of something like the late beethoven quartets. To some extent, I think it's possible to educate audiences. Certainly, some audiences would like to think of themselves as educationable. It's a matter of being far enough ahead of current practice to appear interesting and exciting, but not so far ahead as to be threatening. It also depends on the audiences; working in theatre/dance I come across audiences which, if not adventurous, at least consider themselves adventurous. But of course we're talking relatively small audiences, since theatre/dance has already done a lot of alienation by setting itself up on a pedestal. >as for what to do? Get a good publicity/marketing machine. That's where the leverage is. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:32:17 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" >Nick do check out the CDs of teh scores used by the Montreal dance troupe La >La La Human Steps, sample city & synths, plus heavy guitar. Edward locke? Oh yeah, I think I met him a few years ago. Who else did they work with? What's-his-face, Van Tigheim? (Spelling aside.) I didn't know there were CD's out; what label? >Anyhow I don't find samplers that different. I see them as keyboard >controlled tape decks that can provide natural world sounds as an audio >backdrop for the synths. Ri-i-i-ght. Spot on. This is the approach I've used in the past: use a sampler to capture particular sound treatments so that they can be reproduced without tying up the original instruments or the specific effects routes or programs. >Very complimentary, if it is painting ,then >they provide the wash or background. Or possibly some punctuation. I consider a sampler to be the equivalent of a hard-disk recording system for the *performing* electronic musician. I must come clean here: my anti-sampler stance was something of a deliberate troll. My point is that electronic music does not *need* samplers, and that it's absolutely valid (and I would argue, distinctive these days) to not use one at all. If and when I get another one (probably an S-760 because of the filter control) it'll be for capturing sections audio for use in performance; virtual multitracking if you like. And I will synthesise with it. But I'm busy learning other things right now, and a sampler is somewhere down the shopping list. I can make electronic music happily without one, believe it or not. >[machine failure...blink, blink, blink, reboot, beep] Been there, done that. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:37:41 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE >My statements are not merely a >series of bashings of contemporary culture, but rather an objective >analysis of the situation as I see it. without a common language and >a unified audience the whole concept of "master" becomes meaningless. >genius there may be in abundance, but it is irrelevant! > >mt Alright, I think I catch your drift. My lifelong search for a master has come to a screaching hault. What you're saying is that for there to be a master, there must be the proper foundation in place for him to carry out his mission. It's apparent that such a foundation, atleast in today's cultural field, does not exist. I'd still like to know who is composing electronic music of some reasonable worth, as irrelevant as it may be. Roll over, Beethoven. Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:33:43 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Guy c. Jules Van Belle" Subject: Re: help for sonograms >Is there anybody here who can tell me if and where is it possible to find a >freeware or shareware program that generates sonograms from an audio file >(on HD, not coming from mikes or others)? What I am looking for is a >softvare that deals essentially with graphic representation of audio files, >allowing to save it in a graphic format or at least to print it in some >way. Also f you know about graphic-audio software that generates other kind >of graphic analysis (even FFT or waveform) - and, I repeat, with the >capability to save in graphic format - that I don't know, please tell me, >maybe it can be very useful for me. Thank's'n'bye. > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > >Massimiliano Viel > > max.viel@planet.it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can the freeware program Lemure do this? You will find this excellent piece of software at Stanford University. I don't have the exact URL. GuyZ. ************************ Guy.VanBelle@rug.ac.be University of Ghent 5, Sint-Pietersplein B9000 Gent_Belgium_Europa T/+329.2643549 F/+329.2643599 Young Farmers Claim Future http://www.riv.nl/farmers/tex ***************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:58:33 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Miroslav Teker Subject: Re: help for sonograms In-Reply-To: from "Guy c. Jules Van Belle" at Aug 16, 95 03:33:43 pm > > >Is there anybody here who can tell me if and where is it possible to find a > >freeware or shareware program that generates sonograms from an audio file > >(on HD, not coming from mikes or others)? What I am looking for is a > > Can the freeware program Lemure do this? You will find this excellent piece > of software at Stanford University. I don't have the exact URL. > GuyZ. Is this program for a Mac,PC or something else? Miro ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:14:43 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Guy c. Jules Van Belle" Subject: Re: help for sonograms >> >> >Is there anybody here who can tell me if and where is it possible to find a >> >freeware or shareware program that generates sonograms from an audio file >> >(on HD, not coming from mikes or others)? What I am looking for is a >> >> Can the freeware program Lemure do this? You will find this excellent piece >> of software at Stanford University. I don't have the exact URL. >> GuyZ. > >Is this program for a Mac,PC or something else? > > Miro I have a PPC_Mac version and there is also a 68K version, I guess. Guy. ************************ Guy.VanBelle@rug.ac.be University of Ghent 5, Sint-Pietersplein B9000 Gent_Belgium_Europa T/+329.2643549 F/+329.2643599 Young Farmers Claim Future http://www.riv.nl/farmers/tex ***************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:22:55 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wendell Carroll The name of the game is play! Don't hide behind gimmicks and say the music is creative. The best music comes from the human meeting the instrument. Know what I mean? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:41:48 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ian Tilbury Subject: Re: "During the time I had a sampler" IT had written >>Samplers and loops are embedded in todays electronic music whether we want >>to admit it or not. At 8:31 AM 8/16/95, Nick Rothwell wrote:> >I have no problem with that. It's just they aren't embedded in mine. That was obvious from your previous posts. The point was that the attitude towards those that do is looking a bit narrow on this list. regards, Ian Tilbury ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:40:50 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Macey >The name of the game is play! Don't hide behind gimmicks and say the music is >creative. The best music comes from the human meeting the instrument. Know >what I mean? I aggree! ---------------------------------- Nick Macey kcool@xmission.com http://www.xmission.com/~kcool/ ---------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:02:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Name of the Game >The name of the game is play! Don't hide behind gimmicks and say the music is >creative. The best music comes from the human meeting the instrument. Know >what I mean? Dig. Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Carnes Subject: sayonara Comments: To: SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU In-Reply-To: <199508110401.AAA25712@atlanta.american.edu> ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Content-Lines: 3 X-Sun-Content-Length: 254 Hi folks and bye. I've run out of bandwidth and am unsubbing from the list. I'm still around -- just got too busy. Please feel free to contact me directly if I can help you or if you just want to say hi. Michael Carnes, Lexicon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 22:42:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "(Richard Hunter)" Subject: Re: Name of the Game My feelings exactly! I think this is a good time for me to sign-off for a couple of weeks and go on vacation with my family, my dogs, and my classical guitar. It's been real electronic. Richie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 00:40:28 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Name of the Game Hi All, The name of the game is to have fun with music and sound for me. Since working with MidiVox, I find that I can sometimes sing 2 notes at once, so to relax I am doing weird noises and other overtone vocal stuff while typing this. And my notation program does notate the vocal cord fundamental and the overtone. One day I did get some chords, where it notated my humming as a root plus 2 of the harmonics. This was discussed when we were designing the product, what if the Tibetian monks BioSensored up and plugged themselves in. So if you can sing chords, MidiVox will track it. Happy Emusic. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:26:37 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE >Gorecki's 3rd Symphony was acclaimed in >Rolling Stone, and apparently became quite popular in England. Not to mention Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I suspect that that was partly due to our wonderful British Broadcasting Corporation, who are free from the fickle concerns of commercial radio. BBC Radio 3 were playing the Gorecki a lot, and Radio 4 (a talk station) covered it as well. As I said before, it's also publicity/marketing: the Gorecki was well publicised. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:26:50 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: When my sampler was knee high to a... > You're right. It does sound like b.s. (to me anyway, I cautiously add). >K2000 virtually unusable? How much simpler can an instrument's design get? Sorry, I keep forgetting that one is not allowed to criticise the K2000 on this mailing list. Actually, I said that *I find it* close to unusable. Why? I dunno. I've used a lot of instruments, but I just found it hard to get anywhere with the K2000. I know how to operate it, having read the manuals from cover to cover, and I understand the architecture, but can't get from sounds in my head to sounds in the instrument. By contrast, on the UltraProteus I can program several good-quality sounds per hour without any problem. And the interface there is nowhere near as good. >What specifically is so vexing on the unit, if you don't mind my asking? One thing I didn't like was the fact that many algorithms arbitrarily dictate what DSP functions you can place in particular locations. You have to memorise what's allowed in each algorithm (or keep the manual to hand all the time). Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:04:45 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 26Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: MASTERS (DE)BATE > >Gorecki's 3rd Symphony was acclaimed in > >Rolling Stone, and apparently became quite popular in England. ...... > Gorecki was well publicised. indeed in addition to this two points can be made about the gorecki: 1) it is accessible, almost trivially so. 2) it deals with profoundly emotional issues. in these ways it is successful, the real question is "Is there anything there that can be built upon?". Is it a unique work existing in isolation or does it demonstrate techniques that can be expanded and utilized by others in the creation and propagation of a style. my personal feeling is that as music it is pretty slim. take away the words and there is not much there, as i also feel was true of his earlier music. it is also somewhat difficult to compare the situation in america with that in britain where composition is taught at the elementary school level, where native composers are given great press and there is a much larger audience with a wider cultural cross-section interested in classical music than in our country. mt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:58:29 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Massimiliano Viel Subject: Re: help for sonograms >Can the freeware program Lemure do this? You will find this excellent piece >of software at Stanford University. I don't have the exact URL. >GuyZ. > > ************************ > Guy.VanBelle@rug.ac.be > > University of Ghent > 5, Sint-Pietersplein > B9000 Gent_Belgium_Europa > T/+329.2643549 > F/+329.2643599 > > Young Farmers Claim Future > http://www.riv.nl/farmers/tex > ***************************** Thank you so much for your help. Unfortunately up to now I couldn't find it just looking around in Stanford sites. If you just know a little more about the URL, or if you attach it me by e-mail (if it's not so large, of course) I would be very happy. Tank you again. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Massimiliano Viel max.viel@planet.it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU Wed Jan 17 02:31:31 1996 Received: from atlanta.american.edu (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA23793 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id CAA119612 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:22:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199601170722.CAA119612@atlanta.american.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:22:18 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b)" Subject: File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9508D" To: Joe McMahon Status: O ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:50:24 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: struggling to fix mailings Comments: To: synth-l I have received messages from a large number of people who have said that they are not receiving messages. Normally, SET EMUSIC-L MAIL will fix this; unfortunately in this version it has the side effect of turning off digestion. I am going through the output from the command and restting the people who were on digest. Please bear with me for a day or so while I get caught up. For those who were wondering who the hell I was, I'm the list administrator, along with Mike Metlay. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:04:54 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BAKERC@1537.EDU Subject: Looking for an old friend Hi, I was hoping that someone on this list might be able to help me locate an old friend. She studied Electronic music in some form at McGill University in Montreal, Canada and was just finishing in 1990 or 91 when I lost touch with her. Her name is Manuelle Hogan but she changed it to Karim in the 80s and I'm not sure what she goes by now. I would appreciate any help anyone could give me in locating her. Carol Baker BAKERC@GRDA.AVC.CALGARY.AB.CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:11:23 -0400 Reply-To: luis.l.p.pardal@crcas01.x400.gc.ca Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: PARDAL Luis -CRCAS -AG -SA Subject: Re: is the list still up? I'm here. So are most people here interested in electro-acoustic music, or completely electronic music, or what? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello! Well, I like different music styles (or whatever you want to call them). I love new age, some jazz, classical music, rock & roll, heavy metal, etc, etc ,etc. For example, some people I usually listen to are Al Di Meola, Lee Ritenour, Pat Metheny, Felipe Campuzano, Jeff Beck, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Rush, Saga, Tangerine Dream, Kitaro, Vangelis, Mozart, Wagner, Beethoven, Status Quo, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Placido Domingo, REM, Paco de Lucia, etc, etc. I think there's enough space in this list for everything, and I can't tell you how much I have learned since I joined it. So, if you want to talk about any of the names above or any other one, just send the email, you'll get lots of answers, that's for sure!. ;-) Best regards Luis luis.pardal@crcas01.x400.gc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:42:57 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: struggling to fix mailings In-Reply-To: <199508221450.KAA21462@clark.net> from "Joe McMahon" at Aug 22, 95 10:50:24 am Joe McMahon writes-- > >For those who were wondering who the hell I was, I'm the list administrator, >along with Mike Metlay. ...who is now back from a vacation followed by an illness, and will be covering some back mail soon. Will the guy who runs MIDIVox please write to me at atomic@netcom.com? There's a grad student at MIT who wants to talk to you.... thanx mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | WORDS OF WISDOM FROM ATOMIC CITY #83: cd mailorder po box 81175 |Kurt Geisel and Adam Schabtach on the Waldorf Wave pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | or order from our website | "Then, by definition, they are not priced out of http://pd.net/atomic-city | the market. It's just that we're not the market." or via infinite illusions | toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | "Of course we are. We're Team Metlay." :-) :-) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 14:34:41 -0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: damian keller Subject: Re: Sample file formats In-Reply-To: <01HRRLP16CO2007F7F@uthscsa.edu> from "Scott Mitchell" at Jun 16, 95 07:54:30 am > > I'm the author of a Windows application that builds audio files from standard > MIDI files, using a library of samples residing on disk. At present, the > samples are stored as .WAV files, but I'd like to expand it to read one or > two of the more common sampler file formats, so that it could make direct use > of CDROMs manufactured for those samplers. > > Does anyone have experience dealing programmatically with these formats? The > only one I'm familiar with is the Kurzweil *.KRZ, which like several other > folks I have partially deciphered for myself, but last I heard the company > remains secretive about it. Are the Akai or Roland formats (for example) > any more open? > > Scott Mitchell > mitchell@uthscsa.edu > > > Scott Mitchell > University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio > mitchell@uthscsa.edu > Dear Mitchell: Is your program publicly available?. If so we are working here at University of Brasilia using the limited resourses we have to try to develop some research in music and a couple of electro-acoustic pieces, so your program would be very useful for us. We do not have much disk space but we are fully midi-capable (Performer 4.0, Cakewalk, and Roland jd800). Please let me know more about that and if it is possible to do some kind of deal. Thanks a lot and best luck in your research. Damian Keller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 11:29:23 -0700 Reply-To: bc492@scn.org Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: SCN User Subject: MAILORDER SYNTHS > >>I need your help--I'm shopping for a new syth. I currently have a Casio CT-470 >>with only 4 midi channels. I'm looking for a synth with all 16 MIDI channels. >>I'm on a tight budget and would like to find something no more than $1500. > You might wish to check out the QuadraSynth Plus Piano, available mailorder from American Music Supply in New Jersey (800 number available from 800 information, naturally!)> > -- --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- 2021 4th Avenue #405, Seattle, WA 98121-2421 email: bc492@scn.org telephone: (206)728-7145 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 14:57:15 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: E-Mu Ok, another question to get some activity...has anyone seen a recent patch editor for Proteus (MPS+) synths? There is this old one that is a demo only, but the email address is defunct. Any clues? And another - is there a demo version of Max available anywhere? Matthew Ross Davis, WWW Design and Editing Quantum Research Corporation mdavis@qrc.com, (301) 657-3070 http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/mdavis.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:24:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ron at AOL Subject: Re: E-Mu >Ok, another question to get some activity...has anyone seen a >recent patch editor for Proteus (MPS+) synths? There is this old one that >is a demo only, but the email address is defunct. Any clues? > And another - is there a demo version of Max available anywhere? I use Opcode's Galaxy + to edit sounds on my MPS + Orchestral. It works great. I've never found a complete MAX demo but I have sample demo's of some of it's functions. Ron rong225zt@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 20:45:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: isor Subject: Paris (is burning) In-Reply-To: <01HUDBP8H3VM000M70@AVC.CALGARY.AB.CA> Does anyone know Paris (x london after mightnight, shadow project et all) has anyone heard his project "EXP"???? anyone know what he is up to? Eric Allen Seale of ISOR magazine \ Br. Box 1566 \ Edwardsville, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:41:17 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: shareware for Mac - E-mu and sequencers >I use Opcode's Galaxy + to edit sounds on my MPS + Orchestral. It works >great. I've never found a complete MAX demo but I have sample demo's of some >of it's functions. Well, that would be good if I could afford Galaxy, but I can't. And though it might be a worthwhile pursuit to write a HyperMIDI interface to the front panel, I don't have time for that either...though it wouldn't be a really bad idea. I have the old shareware version of the Proteus Patch Editor, but I can't change any attributes of the secondary instrument with it - nor can I save patches. Saving patches I can do with bulk sysex, but no second instrument doesn't do me a lot of good. And along this same vien, any word on shareware sequencers for Mac? Matthew Ross Davis Quantum Research Corporation mdavis@qrc.com, (301) 657-3070 http://muon.qrc.com/mdavis/mdavis.html