========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:03:56 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Neal Sievwright Subject: Re[2]: MusicX om AMIGA the .mid files have to be processed using the accessory; Muffy in bars and pipes, and your .perf files will have to be saved to .mid's first before B&P can actually read them. Neal Sievwright sievwrn@agric.nsw.gov.au >From the Downunder (other) side of the World - aaargh !!!!! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: MusicX om AMIGA Author: Electronic Music Discussion List at smtpgwy Date: 9/8/95 6:07 AM Hi, Thanks for the info on MusicX 2.0. I do have a copy of bars and pipes but I can't get it to read any .perf or .mid files, any suggestions? Best regards. Mark ******************************************* * Mark W Young - cepmy@scri.sari.ac.uk * * Scottish Crop Research Institute * * Invergowrie * * Dundee DD2 5DA * * Tel +44 01382 562731 * * Fax +44 01382 562426 * ******************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 22:31:26 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Amiga BP Muffy Tool. Hi, To read mid files into Bars and Pipes use the Muffy or Smerf tool. Dont remember about perf. files. If not in manual email blue ribbon. Happy Midi. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:27:23 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Ronald S. Herhuth" Subject: Re: MAC FOR SEQUENCING/DIGITAL MULTITRACKING Some will not agree, but if value is your primary concern you should check out a used Mac 2ci. This is a good machine that has three nubus slots and you should be able to get one very resonably. If you can afford it a Quadra is probally a better system to get into that way you could put in a new board to upgrade to a power pc as time goes on. good luck to ya synth2max@aol.com R.herhuth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:54:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wired4Soun@AOL.COM Subject: Re: project funding >>>I've been working independently on a design for an "alternative" live performance (especially for dance) MIDI controller which seems to be a unique approach, based on the info I've gleened from this list and some other sources in the past few months. The work has reached the point where some funding would be nice (!) :) and I was wondering if anyone out there could offer some advice on where a novice could start in locating potential sources. >>> Accountability causes most funding sources to make you jump through lots of hoops. So, I would advise that you start locally (fewer hoops.) Contact your local sources. Most cities have a City Foundation that will offer some support for local arts projects. If you can "give" them something visible - like a performance in a public venue (good publicity for you, too!) then they are able to show where there bucks went ;-) You need to provide evidence of your worthiness. Give them some press copy, programs, a history of your past work in music and dance, and be sure and offer any other signs of credibility that you can. For example, "I did an experimental workshop with the well-known local XYZ Dance Company at YeeHaw College last spring. And now I'm collaborating with them on another projectx" Give them an accurate, but not bare bones budget. Don't ever expect to get what you ask for! And those tiny, drop-in-the-bucket grants that help the grantor's demographics look better are the absolute "kiss of death." You know, the project is going to cost $5,000 and the local foundation will give you $100 IF... you actually pull it off :< And they demand that you credit them in all of the publicity. Good luck with all of those dancing electrons ;-) Tom Jordan Wired for Sound! - computer music for kids P.S. I like the reply from<> It just depends on where you're headed. TJ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:03:19 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Usability vs. "sound" >*Is* it better to buy yourself a machine >which sounds like a dream but is hard to use (say, a wallfull of Moog >modules), or something that intuitively fits your head (in my case, the >VFXsd and the EWI/Vortex combo)? The other attribute I pay attention to is physical size, given the amount of live work I do. (Power or versatility is sort-of an inverse; it's power / size which is important for building a live rig.) It's a trade-off. In practically all the cases I've bought Roland gear it's been because the sound has been worth the unusability. (Tell me you're surprised.) Otherwise, I tend to buy carefully, in order to maximise all three attributes. The Wavestations (except the SR) score well, as do the Morpheus/UltraProteus because of the excellent architecture and audio routing. I sold the MKS-70, although it sounded beautiful, because it was a Roland: too big and heavy, bitimbral only, broken OS and MIDI spec. The only reason I've battled the LXP-5 all these years is the sound; nothing comes close. >I've thought about the >MicroWave, but as I know two people with diametrically opposed opinions about >its user interface ... :) My main problem with the MicroWave is power / size, actually: 2U high, for only eight voices through a single stereo output pair (the mono outs aren't much use to me). Now, a 12- or 16-voice job, 1U high, with two stereo outs would be a killer. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:03:59 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Usability vs. "sound" >Hi, > Well, commen sense takes care of this one. Maybe, >If you are doing a lot of >real time live performing, where you need as few buttoms presses as >possible, usability would seem to win out. I'm lost. I'm not sure what usability has to do with number of button presses. I have no problem with pressing buttons during performance (hell, that's what a keyboard is after all) so long as the interface is clear, logical and robust. >If you mainly record or >sequence, sound is what you go for, an extra button press or two wont >matter. I disagree. If you're composing you need as few distractions as possible, and need to work quickly and intuitively. But again, it's how logical the interface is that's most important. >And if you improvise >in real time, thats what midi foot controllers are for, when you dont >even have time for one button press, cause your fingers are too busy. I guess. I saw Peter Seiler performing many years ago, and he had about a dozen footpedals of various kinds, which he put to good use. I tend not to use them, since I have a fader-box to hand already. >" MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. Yes, but does it suck? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: Usability vs. "sound" >HERE!. What I would call a machine that sounds like a dream but is >hard to use would be something like the Emu UltraProteus, where you >have a beautiful sound set and a powerful architecture, but programming >involves a few knobs and one dial and a vewwy vewwy tiny LCD display. Well, I understand that this isnt the thrust of this post, but, ummm, well, i assume everyone on this list has a computer... and well, do you only use them for sending posts? I dont know about non-mac computers, but we have had good editor libraians for quite a long time. So, no scrolling through different pages on any synth, its all up there on your moonitor.. hear changes as you go. have your sequencer upload and d/l patches for each song.. stuff like that. I do only use one knob on the propteus... The on and off knob. Now, one could midify Moogs, but one only needs a few for those sine wave bass sounds anyway!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 05:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "John Lewis May, Jr" Subject: Re: MOTU MIDI Timepiece There is a forum on compuserve that is supported by MOTU staffers that has all of the software that you'll need. Use the "find" command to select it. (FIND MOTU). You can download the software. If you don't have access to CIS, call MOTU direct. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 17:08:19 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Usability vs. "sound" >I dont know about non-mac computers, but >we have had good editor libraians for quite a long time. So, no scrolling >through different pages on any synth, its all up there on your moonitor.. I don't consider this an unqualified Good Thing. I hate staring at computer monitors at the best of times - too much glare. That's why I use PowerBooks. Even so, computers are irritating and distracting; I often find that a small interface with buttons and knobs is more focussing. Even though I have editors for Wavestation and D-70, I'll keep using the front panels. Less brain required. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 17:30:30 +0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kari Lauren Subject: MIDI Hi, does anyone know a source from where one might get MIDI-files that can be played via a soundcard that supports General Midi and MPU-401 interface? I am especially interested in classical pieces. Let me know, please. Kari.Lauren@kuressaar.green.fido.ee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:11:00 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Pasch Subject: Re: MIDI In-Reply-To: <8936.1F298BCF@kuressaar.green.fido.ee> About those midi files that you were looking for...here is a bbs that I have subscribed to for along time and that carries gobs of samples, midi files, patches etc. Sound Management BBS 1 708 949 5392. I hope that helps. Tim Pasch. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 08:14:46 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Spamboy Subject: Re: MIDI In-Reply-To: <8936.1F298BCF@kuressaar.green.fido.ee> I don't want to exit my email program right now and get on the web to check this out, but at least one of these should have MIDI files, and classical MIDI files: http://www.webcom.com/~cgould/midi.html http://midilink.com/users/midilink/ Have fun Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu 8182 Glengarry Green *SPACE MONKEY ENTERPRISES * 714-522-BITE Buena Park, CA 90621 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * fax/modem:714-522-6323 On Sat, 9 Sep 1995, Kari Lauren wrote: > Hi, > > does anyone know a source from where one might get MIDI-files that can be > played via a soundcard that supports General Midi and MPU-401 interface? > I am especially interested in classical pieces. > > Let me know, please. > Kari.Lauren@kuressaar.green.fido.ee > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 15:20:26 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Julia Miller Subject: Re: Tom @ Wired for Sound Dear Tom, I have started a composition program for kids, and am trying to start a MIDI/music notation class as well. Would be interested in any info/suggestions you may have. Sincerely Julia Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:48:15 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fred Wehr Subject: Re: MIDI >does anyone know a source from where one might get MIDI-files that can be >played via a soundcard that supports General Midi and MPU-401 interface? >I am especially interested in classical pieces. For classical MIDI files, try this web site: http://mail.dtx-bbs.com/~raborn/. It's got lots of files and is really well set up. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 18:27:40 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Classical midi files Hi, There are lots of classical midi files out there. One can buy them from company's such as Romero music in the ads in EM, Keyboard, or Future Music. Various cdroms of classical midi files are out there, for $10 and up. See the midi home page or yahoo web index for info on the internet ones. I find it far cheaper in money and time to buy collections than to try to download them, and then unzip them. Especially if one is looking for midi symphonys or concertos. Happy Midi. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 18:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Midi for Kids. Hi, I'm sure many of you are using midi with kids. What are their favorite pieces of software, hardware. etc. The ones the kids I hang out with like are EZ Keys, Soundtrack Express, Melody Maestro, Super Jam, Music for Kids, Dr. T's Singalong, Band in the Box, Jammer. Mr. Drumstik, Power Chords Pro. Microsoft Musical Instruments. There are others. I have not gotten around yet to Professor Piccalo, or the new Kids Riffs. Kids llike the colored follow the notes cursor in MidiVox Studio. Kids love banging on my Yamaha, half size keyboard with auto all. And every year I hit the schools with one of my guitar synths and midivox. All the kids love using MidiVox and pretending they are musical instruments. I wish we would have had all this great midi stuff when I was a kid. Happy Midi. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:30:51 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Another copyright question Hi all This version of the copyright question goes like this: what's the situation regarding use of sample-based kiddies toys? You know the ones: little plastic guitars/keyboards/drumkits with a few rubber buttons which produce wonderfully awful 2.5-bit sampled riffs, chords, drums etc. I use these now and then in pieces (I know, I know...), either as discrete little chunks or after some major surgery on the Mac. I've always taken the view that if the manufacturers market them for *making music*, they've lost control over what eventual use the samples are put to. But is this true? I guess if I were to copy their samples into my own toy instrument and sell that, I'd be in trouble. But to incorporate bits into pieces of music? Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks in advance Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 22:48:06 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: MIDI You can always find MIDI on the internet by doing searches from time to time. Not %100 accurate, but, you never know what may be out there for you to use. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 22:57:24 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: Another copyright question >This version of the copyright question goes like this: what's the situation >regarding use of sample-based kiddies toys? You know the ones: little >plastic guitars/keyboards/drumkits with a few rubber buttons which produce >wonderfully awful 2.5-bit sampled riffs, chords, drums etc. I use these >now and then in pieces (I know, I know...), either as discrete little >chunks or after some major surgery on the Mac. I've always taken the view >that if the manufacturers market them for *making music*, they've lost >control over what eventual use the samples are put to. But is this true? >I guess if I were to copy their samples into my own toy instrument and sell >that, I'd be in trouble. But to incorporate bits into pieces of music? >Any thoughts, anyone? Listen to all the samples you already hear on recorded music. I have never been able to figure out why the laywers arent suing about this. To me it is infringement. When I was writing some commercials, i was doing one for american airlined oh about 24 years ago. I was goping to use at the end off the piece 6 notes from the song san Francisco for the end tag of the tune. i was worried about it and went to see a laywer. $500.00 later he thought i shouldnt do it, so I put 3 of the notes a third up. You still KNEW what the song was, but it was a bit different. Sheesh!! Now you can just sample about 30 seconds of Frank Sinatra and drop it into your bridge. So I think the answer to your question is...go right ahead, if you are worried, change it just a little, and call it art. Fingers ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 23:05:36 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. > Happy Midi. > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox > >-- >MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. > >Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some >Drums, Sing a Cello. Sheesh, would you stop allreaqdy with the shameless promotion already? I have gotten 4 posts about tghis wonderful new toy in the last week, and am ready not to read anything by you already!! i think most people on this list have something to do with some part of the industry and know about what is generally out there to spend money on. I really dont care abopout kids pretending they are instruments. That is meaningless and snobbish to suggest thast has anything to do with music or education. Kids pretend they are Firemn and robbers too. And another thing while I am at it, I do alot of seminars and special college courses on MIDI and Mac, and am shocked at how all you experts know next to nothing about music!! I am a player FIRST.; Playing with knobs is way down the list. All those things to me a re like typewriters. Learning how to type isnt all that hard. Lets see what you can SAY or write.. Teaching technology is great, but, music will be the constant. Toys like the midi thingie will come and go. Just like all the new and improved high tech synths. they will be gone, replaced by something else. Musicians will stuill have the same concerns and problems that they have always had. Dooesnt mater in the long run the instrument. Concept and techniques come first. Teach that. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:59:01 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. In-Reply-To: <9509110605.AA29051@arachnid.microweb.com> from "fingers" at Sep 10, 95 11:05:36 pm Re the MidiVox contentionette: I think you're missing the point here. The MidiVox is an alternate CONTROLLER which uses a cool little neckband device to let you SING and have it translated into MIDI. For non-professional musicians (and professionals too), this is a great box, because it lets you take advantage of MIDI technology without the constraint of having to become an accomplished instrumentalist first. I will, at the moment, handwave the question as to whether this is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing. However, Timothy has been contributing a lot of useful information to the list, so I think his signature file falls within acceptable limits. Me, I just read his letters and skip the signature. If you really need to argue with him about it, send him private email, please. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:20:18 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: me Subject: opcode/musicquest midiers... for those of you who may not know (i didn't) opcode has taken over music quest. i had occation to learn this the hard way needing some service on some equipment....it didn't go smoothly, but the service mgr. assures me that they are in a "learning" phase about the new (music quest) addition. reminds me that i bought a linc controller the month they went under..never to be heard from again...gone ... kah-put. anyway, after talking at length with the mgr. we did get things sorted-out and as long as the equip keeps working i'll be happy. i like the 2port/se midi&smpte box. ....andy ------------------------------------------------------- andy mcdonough at&t bell labs (908)957-6674 abm@mtispan.att.com Date: 09/11/95 Time: 10:20:18 ------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent by me and not Chameleon. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:02:49 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wired4Soun@AOL.COM Subject: Comp Program for kids Comments: cc: JAMZ69@aol.com >>>I have started a composition program for kids, and am trying to start a MIDI/music notation class as well. Would be interested in any info/suggestions you may have. >>> Hi, Julia! I'm always interested in getting right to the creativity rather than the cleancut precision we musicians demand for accurate reproduction. I cut my teeth on standard notation ;-) but, I want the kids to "slap some things together" so they can evaluate what they did. BTW, the beginning of school is always a good time to do "a scarry piece for Halloween." No rules, just see what you can do that's scarry! Abstraction is implied - non-traditional, creepy things "work." The oral and mental critique for self and peers really helps to establish a language for talking to fellow composers. And you - all of you will be able to assess each piece with a genuine basis of understanding. Whoa! Lots of big words! But, that is exactly what we classically trained educators do to our kids all the time. So, lighten up and let them do something. Then, they can begin to verbalize and establish some rules for what happened/happens. Let the language evolve after the joy and excitement of doing the aural creation! As far as software/equipment: I'm a Mac user, but I prefer to use a dedicated keyboard/workstation (mine are Ensoniq 16+'s) so the kids can just jump right into the fray without being interupted by the qwerty kbd and mouse. Newer software and the solid establishment of general midi are beginning to sway my tendencies back toward the desktop computer, but I don't want to have to spend my time teaching the computer interface. If your kids are already computer-literate, then I might be persuaded 8-) Expect great things! Tom Jordan Wired for Sound! - computer music for kids ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:05:26 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. >this list have something to do with some part of the industry and know >about what is generally out there to spend money on. Hi all, Not so, I was replying to someone asking for help with working with kids and music. And a good third of the posts on this list are asking for advice and opinions on what to buy. Does someone like this synth, does someone like this software. I really dont care >abopout kids pretending they are instruments. That is meaningless and >snobbish to suggest thast has anything to do with music or education. Maybe meaningless to you, but kids sure enjoy it. And getting kids involved in making music, in opening their imaginations to pretending they are playing instruments has always been a step used in music education. No one takes up the study of a real instrument untill they first imagine themselves playing it. And with many schools systems having no band or other music programs anymore, a small midi setup allows the entire student body to express themselves musicly. Sounds like you are a musical snob who believes that music is for adults only, and in the rest of your post where you bash all midi instruments and all midi musicans in general, one of those musical snobs who believes that midi is not music. Lighten up guy, the idea is to have fun with music and sound. Happy Sounds. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:37:15 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. >I think you're missing the point here. The MidiVox is an alternate >CONTROLLER which uses a cool little neckband device to let you SING >and have it translated into MIDI. For non-professional musicians >(and professionals too), this is a great box, because it lets you >take I know what the device is. But dont you know, every post is just an ad, not just the signature. hey, i advertise once in awhile... ONCE to a mailing lists and a few times to newsgroups. sheesh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:35:23 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: fingers Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. >If you want to flame this guy, do it PERSONNALLY. Why you may be sick of >reading this guy's post, I'm sick of seeing angry flames to people over a >mailing list. I could care less. who was I flaming? The guy selling advertising on a mailing list every post>??? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 04:05:02 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Midi for Kids. In-Reply-To: <9509112037.AA21329@arachnid.microweb.com> from "fingers" at Sep 11, 95 01:37:15 pm > I know what the device is. But dont you know, every post is just an ad, > not just the signature. hey, i advertise once in awhile... ONCE to a > mailing lists and a few times to newsgroups. sheesh > Sigh. Okay. I administer the list. If you've seen the Frequently Asked Questions file (it's possible you may not have - our FAQ keeper has been unavailable for a while), it states that such an ad in a signature is perfectly acceptable as long as the poster is contributing to the discussion. In my autocratic opinion and listowner he is, therefore I don't ask for a change. Got it? Now let's DROP it. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:34:43 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: S Astill Subject: Sound to MIDI conversion In-Reply-To: <199509070611.XAA23530@ix7.ix.netcom.com> I know that some people are a bit upset about some things to do with sound/vocals to MIDI conversion at the moment, but it has got me thinking from my position of total novice. I assume that something like MidiVox isn't cheap, it can presumbaly be plugged into the MIDI IN of anything, however unintelligent that might be. But hang on. I've already crippled myself financially by buying a (fairly) powerful PC and a soundcard. Surely the massive processing power that I already have, which I know can do frequency analysis on soundwaves (in some sampling package) can take a soundwave and turn it into MIDI, even at the most basic level. Then with logical editing and so on in a sequencer, this can be transformed to a decent end product. Or am I a foolish dreamer? Stuart Astill s.astill@statcp.maff.gov.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:41:56 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Thielk Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion >But hang on. I've already crippled myself financially by buying a (fairly) powerful PC and a soundcard. Surely the massive processing power that I already have, which I know can do frequency analysis on soundwaves (in some sampling package) can take a soundwave and turn it into MIDI, even at the most basic level. Then with logical editing and so on in a sequencer, this can be transformed to a decent end product. > >Or am I a foolish dreamer? > >Stuart Astill >s.astill@statcp.maff.gov.uk I have done a little dreaming about this idea myself. To answer the question can the PC itself do the frequency analysis. I think it depends on how good you want the sound to MIDI conversion to be. If you want to accuratly convert multiple notes or chords, do it real time, and work with different instruments the answer is no the PC is not powerfull enough. To do a single voice in real time is probably possible. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 07:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jason Rumohr Subject: Re: Comp Program for kids In a message dated 95-09-11 20:13:01 EDT, you write: >I'm always interested in getting right to the creativity rather than the >cleancut precision we musicians demand for accurate reproduction. I cut my >teeth on standard notation ;-) but, I want the kids to "slap some things >together" so they can evaluate what they did. BTW, the beginning of school is >always a good time to do "a scarry piece for Halloween." No rules, just see >what you can do that's scarry! Abstraction is implied - non-traditional, >creepy things "work." Tom, I'm a college student at the point of needing to make some decisions on what sort of career direction I want to take. My three loves are: music, the wilderness and, anything with buttons (namely computers, synthesizers and pianos ;)) I've thought about teaching music, I've thought about hiking as a profession, I've thought about a lot of routes. I have faith that things will work out and that my career will be fulfilling. If not I can always change it. Your post struck me that you really enjoy what you do. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about how you got to be a music teacher for kids. 1. Have you always enjoyed working with kids? If not, when did your perspective change? 2. What do enjoy most about your job? Least? 3. Could you describe more specifically what composing you incorporate into the kids' itinerary(sp)? I'm new to the net and am aware of a few "nettequites". I'm not sure if this is rude ask such questions in the open, but I know better than to direct e-mail a stranger. I appreciate any information you can give me. Thank You, Jason Rumohr Pianodirt@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:06:47 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: S Astill Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion In-Reply-To: I think that I'd be quite satisfied with recording myself singing (or maybe playing harmonica or penny whistle) and then converting that single melody line from a WAV file into a MIDI file, pitch bend and so on would be difficult I would think, but amplitude (volume?) and frequency (pitch?) should be possible. Don't you think! Surely someone out there knows! Stuart >I have done a little dreaming about this idea myself. To answer the question >can the PC itself do the frequency analysis. I think it depends on how good you >want the sound to MIDI conversion to be. If you want to accuratly convert multiple > notes or chords, do it real time, and work with different instruments the answer > is no the PC is not powerfull enough. To do a single voice in real time is >probably possible. >>But hang on. I've already crippled myself financially by buying a (fairly) powerful >PC and a soundcard. Surely the massive processing power that I already have, which I >know can do frequency analysis on soundwaves (in some sampling package) can take a >soundwave and turn it into MIDI, even at the most basic level. Then with logical >editing and so on in a sequencer, this can be transformed to a decent end product. >> >>Or am I a foolish dreamer? >> >>Stuart Astill >>s.astill@statcp.maff.gov.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:42:07 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Edward Plant Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion >I know that some people are a bit upset about some things to do with sound/vocals to MIDI conversion at the moment, but it has got me thinking from my position of total novice. > not me, I think it's cool, and I'd like to hear more... >But hang on. I've already crippled myself financially by buying a (fairly) powerful PC and a soundcard. Surely the massive processing power that I already have, which I know can do frequency analysis on soundwaves (in some sampling package) can take a soundwave and turn it into MIDI, even at the most basic level. Then with logical editing and so on in a sequencer, this can be transformed to a decent end product. > >Or am I a foolish dreamer? > foolish, no. Dreamer, well, maybe. The MIDI Vox thing is the first device I've ever heard of that claims to do that. With your massive processor, a home grown solution is always possible if you have the DSP programming and maybe even hardware design background, plus tons of time and patience. I'd check out the MIDI Vox if I were you. Better email privately though if you're going to ask for price, because you never know _who_ might get pissed off about that... :) Edward + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Edward Plant, Sig Proc Dept Mgr egp@ideas.com SAIC/IDEAS Group *** 7120 Columbia Gateway Drive ** Columbia, MD 21046 voice (410) 312-2094 *** FAX (410)312-2250 =========================================================================== electric bass - recording engineer - eternal student of composition & emusic ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:10:04 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Urip Wisnuardi Subject: Help for Electronic Music Project Research I am new MUSPRF-L discussion list subscriber and hope to get any help from anyone who are interested with my project. Actually, I have designed and built MIDI Percussion Controller in portable shape (something like guitar/banyo ). so I can play this instrument look like the guitar player. I have tried every music style such as Jazz, Country and Rock well. However, I need to doing research to improve the methods of arranggement of finger position and develop the layout of pads (touch sensitive sensors ). My background was bacheloor of Electrical Enginnering but I would like to doing research in School of Music (Master graduate program ) because the point is performance and how to play it. Anyone who give me suggestion or email/adress of departement of music that interested with my project will be appreciated. I am ready to videograph my performance upon request. URIP WISNUARDI 2410 10th Street. #2 Lubbock, TX 79401 email : z8k13@ttacs.ttu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:13:51 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion Hi, I get asked about Sound to Midi conversion a lot. Converting audio to midi does take a lot of processing power. First the mic has to sample or grab enough of a sound for the converter to work with. If all sounds were just raw fundamental sine waves with no overtones, then todays pentiums or power macs should be fast enough to do single note lines with 100% accurary. A fun project out there for someone if it hasnt already been done would be to design a multitrack audio sine wave to midi converter. Natural sounds, voice, violin, flute etc, have a lot of overtones. In many cases, the strongest overtones can be almost as loud as the fundamental. Our ears and brains call this one pitch with a primary tone color, but the computer hardware or software doesnt know this. With enough cpu power one could put in custom filter masks for different instruments, so by picking flute, or sax, or trumpet etc, one could filter out all but the fundamental pitch. With enough custom pitch to midi presets, one would have an audio to midi converter much more accurate than what was designed in the past. Software capture programs such as melody maestro and autoscore all have some kind of software code that tells your computer how to figure out what is a primary pitch and what are overtones. And they are using your entire computer which is a millions of times faster than the technology used in the voicetracker, breakaway vocalist, and Rolands famous doorstop pitch to midi device. The voicetracker worked great and so do autoscore and melody maestro, considering where the technology is. Opps, this is getting long for one of my posts. And so far, all we are doing to trying to grab a fundamental pitch. To wrap this up here, then its how many cycles of the fundamental pitch have to be heard before the hardware can even go, this is an A, or a C#. Low notes play slower, so take longer to read, say 10 milliseconds per cycle for a bass guitar open A string, so if it takes the mic and the hardware 3 cycles to read and identify the pitch we have 30 milliseconds, plus the convertion to midi which really wont add any noticeable processing time. The computer can convert C4 = midi note 60, far, far, faster than you can press middle c down on a keyboard. The big time and data clog is still simply how to id the primary pitch. Just this first step is why MidiVox is nonaudio and reads vocal fold vibration, shape, and movement directly. Happy Emusic. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:21:17 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Erwin Kooijmans Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion >About Sound to MIDI conversion..., ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello! Maybe this can Help you!: I heard that the program Logic Audio (Midi & Audio -Sequencer (on Apple Computers) can transform sound (i.e. singing voice) into (notation-information for making music-scores) graphical music-scores and at the same time send out midi-information. I am not so certain about this, so check out the (new) (powerpc?)-version of this program. Eric Erwin Kooijmans, Sound Design for user-Interfaces and Musictechnology & Education. EricKooijmans@knot.nl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:32:58 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Richard Rodseth Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion At 10:41 PM 9/7/95, Mike Thielk wrote: >>But hang on. I've already crippled myself financially by buying a >>(fairly) powerful >PC and a soundcard. Surely the massive processing power that I already >have, which I >know can do frequency analysis on soundwaves (in some sampling package) >can take a >soundwave and turn it into MIDI, even at the most basic level. Then with >logical >editing and so on in a sequencer, this can be transformed to a decent end >product. >> >>Or am I a foolish dreamer? >> >>Stuart Astill >>s.astill@statcp.maff.gov.uk > >I have done a little dreaming about this idea myself. To answer the question >can the PC itself do the frequency analysis. I think it depends on how >good you >want the sound to MIDI conversion to be. If you want to accuratly convert >multiple > notes or chords, do it real time, and work with different instruments >the answer > is no the PC is not powerfull enough. To do a single voice in real time is >probably possible. Opcode has a music education product for the Mac called Claire. I believe it does monophonic pitch detection using the standard Apple microphone. Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard Rodseth rodseth@apple.com "It's no use prevaricating about the bush" - Wallace, in "The Wrong Trousers" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:44:53 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: s duncan arrowood Subject: rp-1 manual Hello. I recently picked up a Digitech RP-1 in a pawn shop, but it didn't have the manual with it. Anybody know where I can pick one up? Thanks sarrowoo@email.unc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: john rossi Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion In-Reply-To: <1401188895-31716683@pop.knot.nl> On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, Eric Erwin Kooijmans wrote: > >About Sound to MIDI conversion..., > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I heard that the program Logic Audio (Midi & Audio -Sequencer (on Apple > Computers) can transform sound (i.e. singing voice) into > (notation-information for making music-scores) graphical music-scores and > at the same time send out midi-information. I am not so certain about this, > so check out the (new) (powerpc?)-version of this program. > I would be very surprised if Logic Audio did, indeed, do this. My understanding of Logic Audio was it was Logic with the ability to handle digital sound as well as MIDI information. Stranger things have happened, however. After all, most people still believe that HIV causes AIDS. John 3 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 18:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Help for Electronic Music Project Research In-Reply-To: <01HV6S8SEXRSHWA9I2@ttacs.ttu.edu> from "Urip Wisnuardi" at Sep 12, 95 12:10:04 pm > However, I need to doing research to improve the methods of arranggement of > finger position and develop the layout of pads (touch sensitive sensors ). > My background was bacheloor of Electrical Enginnering but I would like to > doing research in School of Music (Master graduate program ) because the > point is performance and how to play it. > I can't be any direct help here, but you might want to see if you can catch Bela Fleck and the Flecktones next time they're in your area. Future Man, their percussionist, plays an instrument very like what you are describing. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:33:09 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: MORGAN ELLINGTON SMITH Subject: sound-to-sample, PC I use a 486 PC with Soundblaster's AWE_32 (value edition), and I want to be able to take wav files and make them into usable samples (presumably by making them *.sbk files and loading them as instrument banks). I have all the files to do this: creative wave studio, jesus villena's sound file conversion program, and two bank managers. But I always get a "fluttery" tremolo effect in the sounds. Is this just a bad conversion program, or do I need to change the sample rate before I convert? Does anybody out there know what the problem might be? Morgan Ellington Smith ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:13:08 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David John Rosborough Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion In-Reply-To: from "S Astill" at Sep 12, 95 02:06:47 pm > > I think that I'd be quite satisfied with recording myself singing > (or maybe playing harmonica or penny whistle) and then converting > that single melody line from a WAV file into a MIDI file, pitch bend > and so on would be difficult I would think, but amplitude (volume?) > and frequency (pitch?) should be possible. > > Don't you think! > Surely someone out there knows! Yep, unless I miss my guess, Studio Vision 5 will be able to do that (or is it out already?)... it is their big selling point in the product spec sheet that they sent me... Dave Rosborough http://www2.excite.sfu.ca/David/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:35:55 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Todd Eric Moore Subject: Re: Help for Electronic Music Project Research You wrote: > >However, I need to doing research to improve the methods of arranggement of >finger position and develop the layout of pads (touch sensitive sensors ). I am not an E.E. though I started my college career as one. Something about Diff E's the rest of my life turned me off. However, have you considered wired frets for note on/off and then a pickup like the Roland GR-2 to get the dynamics wherein the velocity part of the signal - using string amplitude of plucked string - to give you the Midi Velocity? Only problem is mixing the signals into a Midi stream that would be usable. With an onboard computer you could program tunings, etc. A company called Zeta tried that; however, their instruments were 3K plus, so out of the reach of most musicians. Peavey also has their CyberBass system which is a fretted bass guitar. They have not pursued a guitar thing yet, so who knows. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 03:23:41 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Loveria Subject: Re: sound-to-sample, PC Uh yup... > I use a 486 PC with Soundblaster's AWE_32 (value edition), and I want >to be able to take wav files and make them into usable samples (presumably >by making them *.sbk files and loading them as instrument banks). I have all >the files to do this: creative wave studio, jesus villena's sound file >conversion program, and two bank managers. Morgan you've got good gear, but you have to consider... >But I always get a "fluttery" >tremolo effect in the sounds. Is this just a bad conversion program, or do >I need to change the sample rate before I convert? An uncompressed stereo audio sample at Redbook CD specs (16-bit, 44.1kHz) streams recorded data to the hard drive at 10MBs per running minute. If you use one of the many `standard' compression/decompression schemes, like Adaptive Delta Pulse Code Modulation (ADPCM), you'll get a 4:1 reduction in data rates when recording a .WAV, .AIF or .SND files. (Ooops, forgot... most cards, and Windows comes with ADPCM codecs anyway.) However, the point is that even with ADPCM codecs, the system still needs to stream data to the hard drive at 2.5MBs per running minute at 16-bit, 44.1kHz rates (1.25MBs per minute if the sample is mono at the above rates.) Since I don't know what speed your system processor is, I'd have to guess that the problem is more than likeley with your hard drive (or HD controller's) data transfer rates. They probably just can't keep up with the amount of data that must be written to the drive, at least at the stereo, 16-bit, 44.1kHz, 4:1 ADPCM data transfer requirements rates, if that is indeed what you're sampling at. If the quality meets your needs, try reducing the sampling rate to 8-bits or using a 22.05kHz sample frequency. Another guess is that if your system, the drive and controller _can_ indeed keep up with the ADPCM 16-bit, 44.1kHz stereo transfer rates, then you possibly need to defragment your hard drive. (At the DOS prompt type DEFRAG; if you're unfamiliar with the command type HELP DEFRAG.) Audio data gets _real_ `warbly-n-choppy' when the data stream is spread in little blocks of data all over the hard drive. The drive's heads just have to seek around the drive way too much on playback. Any large hard drive head seek will causes a gap in your audio file's playback. Even smaller seeks, if you have enough of them, will also cause the above playback problems. When you DEFRAG the drive, you'll be recording and playing back audio data in a contiguous, non-fragmented data stream. Also, instead of ADPCM, you might want to look into some other newer codecs that are available, like MPEG II/III, for recording and compressing audio data on-the-fly using an onboard Digital Signal Processor found on certain sound cards (like Analog Devices 2152 DSP chip.) At 192-bit rate sample speeds, a five minute stereo audio sample sounds (almost) like CD audio quality, but only occupies around 5MBs of HD space compared to 12.5MBs of data required for ADPCM compression. Additionally, this lower data transfer rate really helps in `smoothing out' playback of audio files. If all this makes no sense, let me know. I've got a web site comimg on-line that will be explaining advanced audio and video recording procedures, but in the most basic of terms for the benefit of all, in the very near future. Anyone that would like can email me and I'll put them on the mailing list for the announcement of the http and ftp addresses. Anyway, hope this helps. All the best. - Greg Loveria - writer/reviewer - when on assigment for: - Byte Magazine - Computer Graphics World - McGraw-Hill DataPro - Windows User >Does anybody out there >know what the problem might be? > Morgan Ellington Smith > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:25:41 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen Subject: Re: Sound to MIDI conversion >> I heard that the program Logic Audio (Midi & Audio -Sequencer (on Apple >> Computers) can transform sound (i.e. singing voice) into >> (notation-information for making music-scores) graphical music-scores and >> at the same time send out midi-information. I am not so certain about this, >> so check out the (new) (powerpc?)-version of this program. >> > >I would be very surprised if Logic Audio did, indeed, do this. My >understanding of Logic Audio was it was Logic with the ability to handle >digital sound as well as MIDI information. Stranger things have >happened, however. After all, most people still believe that HIV causes >AIDS. I don't know about LogicAudio, but i'm pretty sure the latest version of StudioVision claims to have "Pitch to Midi" and "Midi to Pitch" conversion. As much as i understand, it cannot decipher music, but humming a melody can be turned into simple monotonic MIDI data. Still, i'd have to use it to believe it. Seeing would not be enough :) Arne Arne Claassen WWW: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attention: My address has changed! While claassen@ebs330.eb.uah.edu is still valid is only forwards to my new address now ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:25:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Arne Claassen Subject: Metro and Deck Comments: To: daw-mac@blob.best.net In my consideration of Deck and Session, another question came up. What about a new sequencer to lock to the Audio. Talking strictly about Deck, i was wondering if anyone could offer me feedback on whether to go with Metro or Vision. My current dilemma is this: 1) I like Vision and the way it works for me, but 2) Metro has the option of syncing to Deck without OMS or MIDI Manager and is said to be better for work with Deck. Anyone have worked with Deck and any sequencer at the same time? Is Metro a useful and intuitive sequencer (yes, i am asking for subjective comments) or is it's main merrit that it syncs to Deck well? Arne Arne Claassen WWW: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attention: My address has changed! While claassen@ebs330.eb.uah.edu is still valid is only forwards to my new address now ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:30:42 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Spamboy Subject: Re: Help for Electronic Music Project Research In-Reply-To: <01HV6S8SEXRSHWA9I2@ttacs.ttu.edu> I don't know if this will help you, but the "drummer" of Bela Fleck and the Flecktones plays a guitar-like MIDI drum set that fits the description of your invention exactly. I hope I didn't ruin your day. Maybe the guy who invented that could help you. Bela records on Warner Brothers records. Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu 8182 Glengarry Green *SPACE MONKEY ENTERPRISES * 714-522-BITE Buena Park, CA 90621 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * fax/modem:714-522-6323 On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, Urip Wisnuardi wrote: > > > > > I am new MUSPRF-L discussion list subscriber and hope to get any help > from anyone who are interested with my project. > Actually, I have designed and built MIDI Percussion Controller in portable > shape (something like guitar/banyo ). so I can play this instrument look > like the guitar player. I have tried every music style such as Jazz, Country > and Rock well. > > However, I need to doing research to improve the methods of arranggement of > finger position and develop the layout of pads (touch sensitive sensors ). > My background was bacheloor of Electrical Enginnering but I would like to > doing research in School of Music (Master graduate program ) because the > point is performance and how to play it. > > Anyone who give me suggestion or email/adress of departement of music that > interested with my project will be appreciated. I am ready to videograph > my performance upon request. > > URIP WISNUARDI > 2410 10th Street. #2 > Lubbock, TX 79401 email : z8k13@ttacs.ttu.edu >