========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:27:21 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Information?? Try some search engines like the webcrawler http://www.webcrawler.com/ You give a couple of words and it returns the URL's of documnets that contains them! >**Hi, > >I have three days trying to find >a e-mail address of Distributors >of CD's and records in USA, Germany, >Canada and in the rest of the world. > >I passed through several www >pages but never reached the right >information. > >If somebody is able to help >me in this matter I'll thank you. > > >/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / >Javier Galue >galue@ven.net >Caracas, Venezuela. >/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / >/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / >Javier Galue >galue@ven.net >Caracas, Venezuela. >/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:27:23 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: meaning inherent Marshall Tuttle >finally i understand how beethoven works, and i can analyze or surrender to I hear he's been decomposing ;) > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 09:15:49 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: samples/overuse, repeat repete >Sitting at the rack >Vector mix just won't behave >I tear at my hair Trying to get control Synth is thick as two short planks MAX will make it work Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 18:50:04 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Spamboy Subject: Re: computer composition inquiry In-Reply-To: I own 2 Tomita CDs. I have "The Planets" and "Best of". He's the greatest, and has excellent taste in choosing pieces to arrange, at least in my opinion, and he has never done Wagner. Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu 8182 Glengarry Green *SPACE MONKEY ENTERPRISES * 714-522-BITE Buena Park, CA 90621 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * fax/modem:714-522-6323 On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, Michael Crowl wrote: > > This is primarily to Spamboy, but I think everybody on E-MUSIC > who hasn't heard Tomita's recordings should check them out. > I've only been able to find his albums on vinyl, but a friend > recently said she saw some CD re-releases of his in the store. (Please > forgive me if you guys have already discussed him on this list...) > Try to find his electronic version of Holst's THE PLANETS.\ > > --< mikey >-- > > /--------------------------------------------------------------\ > | Michael Crowl LEO Sun, VIRGO Moon, LIBRA Rising... | > | V/M (206)726-2591 E/M "SHITCAN@ESKIMO.COM" | > | "The Scientist, like the Artist, is constantly | > | faced with the problem: | > | 'How do you organize and comprehend the World?'" | > | (EINSTEIN SPACE & VAN GOGH SKY, by Leshan and Margenau) | > \--------------------------------------------------------------/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:00:13 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: PATRICK GROSS - HKIS Subject: Finale and powerbook Hello, I'm new to this list, and am surprised to find the discussion more esoteric than technical. I've enjoyed reading, but I hope you don't mind a more practical question. I'm trying to play back finale files on a Mac powerbook 520. It has a printer/modem port (ie. only one serial port) How can I explain this to the program? I've tried apple midi manaager and OMS. Any suggestions? Anyone successfully using a powerbook with Finale? Concert next Friday would be much simpler if I could solve this! Help? One more while I'm at it: I recently bought a used Personal Laser Writer LC intending to use it printing scores (with said Finale). I can't get a dialog box to tell it NOT to do a font substitution so I get text instead of noteheads. Yes they are clear and crisp, but they are not intelligible, musically. Note the printer is NOT a post script printer. Any suggestions. And I will leave you with a quote: "Wagner has good moments, but bad quarter-hours" --Rossini Thanks! Patrick Gross, Hong Kong International School Music ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 19:57:28 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Todd Eric Moore Subject: Re: composit (was..et You wrote: How dare you presuppose I have an intellectual attitude about music. My point is this, music is for the entire human race to enjoy and create. So Piss Off! > > > My reference to trained monkeys is this. I have met very well > > trained classical musicans who can read and play extremely well etc. >> However, they can't compose original music. > >so what? i have met loads of hacks/amateurs who are musically illiterate >and proud of it saying this same thing. (i am even related to some who are >attempting to build musical careers on it). did it ever occur to any of you >that the entire business of music as you know it would not exist today, and you >would all be >pounding on trees if it weren't for those people who study and keep alive >the achievements of the millenia that make it possible for you to pound >on synthesizers instead? > > > Whereas, I have met people, living ordinary lives, pick up > > instruments for pleasure and compose great pieces of music. > >great? do you mean great like wow! super-duper! etc. > >or do you mean great like something that will move millions of people and >affect the development of society and culture for generations to come? > >true, anybody can compose. true anybody can play an instrument. >it is a good thing that more amateurs are getting involved now in music >because of this, (much like musical life in the 18th century). however: >a bunch of illiterate amateurs are not now and never are going to be great. >face it, enjoy yourselves but put up the self righteous anti-intellectual >attitude. if it in fact wins out in the end you are not going to want to >be part of the resulting social decay.... > >mt > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 22:32:13 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: The crack opera >music is best at emphasizing psychological action as opposed to physical >action. Even in contemporary dance? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 23:10:37 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Re: computer composition inquiry In-Reply-To: ; from "Michael Crowl" at Oct 14, 95 2:42 am These are the graceful words of Michael Crowl: -> This is primarily to Spamboy, but I think everybody on E-MUSIC ->who hasn't heard Tomita's recordings should check them out. -> I've only been able to find his albums on vinyl, but a friend ->recently said she saw some CD re-releases of his in the store. (Please ->forgive me if you guys have already discussed him on this list...) -> Try to find his electronic version of Holst's THE PLANETS.\ I remember this as being the very first purely elecronic music album I ever heard. I was BLOWN AWAY!! I was just a teenager at the time, and had NO IDEA that any one person could do anything like that!!! I seem to remember he also used the overture from the PLANETS to do his own "Space Trilogy" on one album. -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 03:25:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dustin McIntyre Subject: Tomita did do a teeny bit of Wagner >>I think everybody on E-MUSIC who hasn't heard Tomita's recordings should check them out. I've only been able to find his albums on vinyl, but a friend recently said she saw some CD re-releases of his in the store.<< I have had to search far and wide to find his material on disc. With the exceptions of his Ravel album (Daphne et Chloe), Bermuda Triangle and Grand Canyon, you can find them with enough perserverance. I have Debussy's 'Snowflakes Are Dancing' (the best, IMHO), Holst's 'Planets,' Mussorgsky's 'Pictures At An Exhibition,' 'Firebird' (contains Stravinsky's Firebird Suite, Debussy's Prelude To The Afternoon of a Faun, and Mussorgsky's A Night On Bare Mountain (one of his classic pieces; a true desert island disc), 'Kosmos' (contains some Wagner, I must dutifully inform, in his 'Space Fantasy' medley with Strauss, along with 'Star Wars,' Honegger's Pacific 231, Ives' The Unanswered Question, Rodrigo-Tomita's Aranjuez, Grieg's Peer Gynt: Solveig's Song, Dinicu-Heifetz's Hora Staccato and Bach-Tomita's The Sea Named "Solaris"). The other discs are the German issue of his "Best Of" and the Japanese and domestic release on RCA of "Greatest Hits" and 'Live In New York' (recorded in '86, released in '88). Bolero, Claire De Lune, Golliwog's Cakewalk, Infernal Dance Of King Kastchei and The Great Gate Of Kiev appear on both collections. RCA domestically re-released The Planets, Snowflakes.., Firebird, Pictures.. and Kosmos in Dolby Surround in 1991. I hope this helps. Sorry about the Wagner. Tetsuo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 09:16:36 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Expolding into the fractal zoom >What I've done is to configure things into subinstruments. The EWI and >Vortex make up one instrument, with the VFXsd being a separate entity. I think this is one of those approaches which is extremely limiting in terms of flexibility, but where that is GOOD. When the DDMP7 arrives my plan is to attach the UltraProteus, one of the Wavestation racks, and the Lexicon boxes, and that will be IT. MIDI and mains power in, stereo out. It'll be my live rig, basically; everything else will be studio-based. Hmm. But then there's the MicroWave... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 15:20:13 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Re: computer composition inquiry -> I remember this as being the very first purely elecronic music ->album I ever heard. I was BLOWN AWAY!! I was just a teenager at the time, ->and had NO IDEA that any one person could do anything like that!!! ->I seem to remember he also used the overture from the PLANETS to do his ->own "Space Trilogy" on one album. ->-- -> -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us Before anyone else corrects me, "Oops!" The beginning of "Space Trilogy is the overture from R. Strauss' "Also Sprach Zarathustra," not Holst's "The Planets." Sorry. -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 15:33:32 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Bostel Subject: Re: composit (was..et > > My reference to trained monkeys is this. I have met very well > > trained classical musicans who can read and play extremely well etc. >> However, they can't compose original music. > >so what? i have met loads of hacks/amateurs who are musically illiterate >and proud of it saying this same thing. (i am even related to some who are >attempting to build musical careers on it). did it ever occur to any of you >that the entire business of music as you know it would not exist today, and you >would all be >pounding on trees if it weren't for those people who study and keep alive >the achievements of the millenia that make it possible for you to pound >on synthesizers instead? > > > Whereas, I have met people, living ordinary lives, pick up > > instruments for pleasure and compose great pieces of music. > >great? do you mean great like wow! super-duper! etc. > >or do you mean great like something that will move millions of people and >affect the development of society and culture for generations to come? > >true, anybody can compose. true anybody can play an instrument. >it is a good thing that more amateurs are getting involved now in music >because of this, (much like musical life in the 18th century). however: >a bunch of illiterate amateurs are not now and never are going to be great. >face it, enjoy yourselves but put up the self righteous anti-intellectual >attitude. if it in fact wins out in the end you are not going to want to >be part of the resulting social decay.... > >mt > ... I can almost see the flecks of spittle splatting against the screen as you wrote that Marshall ... calm down, you'll make yourself ill. MarkB ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 16:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Quotations > >And I will leave you with a quote: "Wagner has good moments, but bad >quarter-hours" --Rossini > Gee, I was *sure* it was Mark Twain who said that. In any case Mark Twain also said this: "Wagner's music is actually quite a bit better than it sounds". //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon mgs2@cornell.edu \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:20:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Crandall Subject: Southworth MIDI archaeology Comments: To: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" A couple of questions about some fairly ancient gear... I own a Jambox 4+ (why not? works fine so far) but will probably start doing more MIDI controller-intensive work soon. I remember hearing about a recommended chip replacement for that unit to help it move data around better. Anybody remember what that upgrade was? or if/where the chip is available? Also, I've used MidiPaint all along and my files are in that format. What's the difference between MidiPaint and Standard Midi File format (either type)? Just a header change, or is the data in different order/encoding? (BTW MidiPaint will open Standard MIDI files output by 'M' but no others.) The files don't seem to be text (at least as read by Word) -- any conversion apps out there? (Please no commercials for other gear I should have instead -- I'll get an MTP (or II) when I run out of options, but meanwhile cash is cash ;-) Thx in advance, dcrand1@umbc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 16:23:21 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joseph O'Sullivan Subject: Re: composit (was..et I seem to recall that this discussion started as a rather innocent question pertaining to methods which we employ to compose our music, whether they be mechanical, philosophical, planned, contrived or random, etc. I can imagine the author of the original post considering, instead, methods of suicide, whether it be by poison, asphyxiation, or harakiri, in the light of the currrent state of the string and how much junk mail is generated on this topic. I propose that the string be changed to "soapbox #X" where X=the number of the current tirade and each subsequent permutation be given a new number. This way, I can attempt to view postings on "compositional techniques" and not whether or not Wagner sucked, or it is better to be a trained musician vs. an intuitive one vs. a non-musician. This way, I can filter out this diatribe and get on with reading about the subject of electronic music (that's what I assume "emusic-l" stands for). Remember, if you choose to flame me, it would be soapbox #X+1, where X=the number of the current... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:13:30 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt McCracken Subject: Re: Ongoing discussion... MT: just wanted to let you know that, for the most part, I agree with everything you have said. I think what I have written is evidence of this- go back and read what I wrote again; I'm not so sure we're from opposing viewpoints on this issue. I would never suggest that humans are not born with the ability to understand hierarchical structures such as language, or not be able to master the use of its symbolic content, or suggest that music is not a form of such a symbol. All of that is absolutely true. I also agree that music is often used to express very archetypal associations- in fact I studied this very issue in detail in college. Of course, it's not ALWAYS used in this way (and arguably it's often the stuff nobody likes that isn't!); I agree that it can come from very "primal" thought. This does not prove its "inherent" meaning (or lack thereof, thank you very much!). I am merely emphasizing an easily overlooked technicality, which I also believe you agree with me on, and that is that while we all can draw "meaning" from a given symbol in a language, we learn that meaning from other people or outside experiences- it is not inherent in the symbol. Furthermore, my understanding of a word's meaning may be slightly different from yours (i.e. I may find the word "intriguing" to be a more appropriate word in a given situation, and you may feel better using the word "interesting"). This is an unquestionable rule of language- it is an attempt to capture as closely as possible what is in our heads- it is never a literal representation. Music is no exception to this rule. I am a believer in the ability of music to translate this meaning as in other languages, but one cannot expect everyone to take its meaning the same way. Ab might never give me a feeling of the "grand gentleman", or any similar feeling whatsoever, perhaps because of my ignorance to the typical usage of this tonality throughout the history of western music, or possibly because I just can't help thinking about goldfish when I hear it. (I don't really, mind you). I am well educated in the science of musical sound, and I am well aware of how the mind and the ear recognize sound. The physical size of the interval Ab -Eb is probably a valid explanation of why Ab may have been used by composers to express the grandiose, and even to explain why this physical characteristic MAY have achieved this effect in some listeners. But don't try to tell me that Ab stands for something- it's not true, it doesn't, don't say it. Another thing I wanted to mention is that I also do not doubt that many books have been written on this subject. I implore you, again, to go back and read what you have read in the context of what I am saying- I sincerely doubt the contradictions to my words are as panoramic as you have claimed, and I'm sure I could find a plethora of books written to support my words by contemporary experts. It is your use of absolutes that troubles me- try to avoid them whenever possible. Also, let's just forget I ever mentioned Beethoven. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:13:32 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt McCracken Subject: Re: Meaning inherent in tonality Christian: I enjoyed reading what you wrote, because I certainly know the feeling you described. (By the way, I meant to say "subjective" in that quote, as we've already discussed on this mailing list!) I certainly suffered a period of feeling too cerebral about music, but I look at it this way... I remember a time when I enjoyed groups like Milli Vanilli as much as groups like Tears for Fears- and why not? At that age they were very similar to me. They both used synth drum parts, they both had verses, choruses, and videos on MTV. I simply ENJOYED them, nothing else. What makes Tears for Fears great and not Milli Vanilli for ME is the work, the creativity, the inspiration and the beauty of the former- all things I never thought or knew how to recognize then. Of course, when you can't help paying attention to those things anymore, it starts being harder to just "put on a disc" and enjoy it because you want to identify its greatness while you listen to it. To answer your rhetorical question, I would say that music just speaks to me differently than it did. I value experimentation, production, inspiration- hell, I even like a professional looking album sleeve. If I know the artist has worked to express something , even if it "fails", I enjoy it infinitely more than music made solely for getting 18-year-old blondes into bed. Of course, I'm not sure that part translates to classical music so well, but you get my point. (oh yeah, this is the E-MUSIC list anyway!) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:13:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt McCracken Subject: Re: Coda e-mail address Craig- I don't know their email address, but let me know if you get it. I'd love to hear what you think of Finale otherwise- I've got it for the PC, so I don't know if I can help you with your speed problem. Mine runs o.k., but it sure can be a bitch to figure things out sometimes! -Matt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:36:35 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Furman@AOL.COM Subject: New Music Concerts Comments: To: adams@interval.com, alcohen@leland.stanford.edu, alex@korgrd.com, amirk@well.com, barth@leland.stanford.edu, bbelet@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu, cisco@leland.stanford.edu, cn.bes@forsythe.stanford.edu, cn.mmt@forsythe.stanford.edu, craig@well.sf.ca.us, cstone@netcom.com, david@jaffe.com, dej@cats.ucsc.edu, dgl@netcom.com, econcert@charles.ucdavis.edu, edens@interval.com, Eichenberg_Tom.EVE@macmail1.nb.rockwell.com, et.ads@forsythe.stanford.edu, et.jap@forsythe.stanford.edu, et.mgm@forsythe.stanford.edu, fish@musclefish.com, furman@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu, hf.bmg@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.jbz@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.kak@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.mvd@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.smg@forsythe.stanford.edu, jmd@ccrma.stanford.edu, jody@leland.stanford.edu, js%timbre.uucp@nbn.com, kathy@jaffe.com, kato@lab4.yamaha.co.jp, kberger@leland.stanford.edu, mab@dolby.com, mahrt@leland.stanford.edu, mhui@leland.stanford.edu, michael@mcnabb.com, mjohnson@leland.stanford.edu, muscom@mills.edu, musjkm@samba.ucsb.edu, raf@mercury.sfsu.edu, rob@opcode.com, robert@rockmore.com, rww@sgi.com, sano@leland.stanford.edu, scotgl@csuhayward.edu, sheridan.schroeter@forsythe.stanford.edu, shinton@leland.stanford.edu, siyer@netcom.com, stephenh@leland.stanford.edu, STRANGE@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu, studer@applelink.app.com, tenor@leland.stanford.edu, tildy@ella.mills.edu, timis@opcode.com, timper@holonet.net, tsgrey@leland.stanford.edu, users@ccrma.stanford.edu, USERS@cnmat.berkeley.edu, weldy@leland.stanford.edu The San Jose State University School of Music will present two evening concerts of chamber, and electro-acoustic music. - Chamber Music - Wednesday, November 8, 7:30, School of Music Concert Hall "Three Indonesian Landscapes" by Carl Anton Wirth, premieres of new string quartets by faculty composers Anthony Cirone and Dan Wyman, and the Opus 90 Chamber Ensemble featuring "Toys in the Audience." Guest artists for the evening's performance will be William Trimble, saxophone, Sharon Brook, piano, and the Palo Alto Sunrise String Quartet. - Electro-Acoustic Music - Thursday, November 9, 7:30 p.m., School of Music Concert Hall "Cross-town Traffic," a collaborative composition by Brian Belet (SJSU) and William Walker (Apple Computer, Inc.) for two simultaneously controlled Disklaviers in a data feedback process using Walker's real-time algorithmic composition program ImprovisationBuilder, (world premiere). "Triptych," a new composition for live performer & MIDI synthesizers by Antonio Barata (CalPoly State Univ., San Luis Obispo). "Phoenix and the Harlequin," for electronic sounds on tape by Allen Strange (SJSU). "Howard Johnson/Affirmative," for electronic sounds on tape by Joshua Freid. "No Exit," for saxophone and electronic sounds, a collaborative work by composer Dan Wyman (SJSU) and saxophonist William Trimble (SJSU). "Heads over Heels," an interactive composition for MIDI keyboard and computer by Richard Festinger (San Francisco State University). Tickets are $7.00 General and $3.00 Student/Senior. For further information contact the School of Music at (408) 924-4673 or e-mail furman@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:49:44 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: the crack opera > >music is best at emphasizing psychological action as opposed to > physical action. > > Even in contemporary dance? a slightly ambiguous question since you may be referring to merce cunningham, mark morris or the latest in pop culture.... but the answer is still yes i believe, since modern dance is not so much narrative (with some exceptions) but begins to emulate music in its desire to unmask the psychological underpinning of action. mt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:41:38 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: ongoing discussio > Another thing I wanted to mention is that I also do not doubt that many books have been written on this subject. I implore you, again, to go back and read what you have read in the context of what I am saying- I sincerely > doubt the contradictions to my words are as panoramic as you have claimed, and I'm sure I could find a plethora of books written to support my words by > contemporary experts. actually, what contemporary experts have to say is probably irrelevant in the light of historical evidence - if theorists, composers and critics all participated in something and used it in certain ways than it was true. if you wish to question whether the meaning is inherent in the symbol or whether it is projected onto the symbol by western civilization, you are probably correct in presuming the latter, however the consistent usage over the tonal period (up to and including bernstein and sondheim) admits of very little argument whether the processes are conscious or not. there are in fact numerous examples, however where our mechanisms of perception and processing of information divide the world in ways that are artificial, however, and in many of them we make no question as to where the meaning actually lies. for example, pitch and rhythm are actually the same phenomenon, cyclical repititions in time. in the 50's some composers attempted to structure pieces using correlations between these two variables. however recently evidence is suggesting that these two phenomena are in fact analyzed by different parts of the brain which is why we "hear" them differently. the question then arises - are they really different or are we projecting the difference upon them? mt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 21:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dave Rosborough Subject: Re: Quotations >> >>And I will leave you with a quote: "Wagner has good moments, but bad >>quarter-hours" --Rossini >> > >Gee, I was *sure* it was Mark Twain who said that. In any case Mark Twain >also said this: "Wagner's music is actually quite a bit better than it sounds". > Sorry, according to David W. Barber (in his rather humorous book "When the Fat Lady Sings") it WAS Rossini... But I think you're right about the other quote... There are actually quite a lot of funny quotes about Wagner's music (and personally, I don't wonder why!) but this is not the list for them. DaveR ________________________________________________ David Rosborough Web Author, Faculty of Education, SFU drosboro@sfu.ca ________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:29:23 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Sluyter Subject: THEREMIN I've just returned from a screening of "Theremin: An Electronic Odyssy". Pretty interesting/entertaining (interestaining?) stuff. I had heard somewhere (was it at this list?) that Robert Moog was putting updated versions of the theremin into production. (Oh, now I remember, it was on an NPR program.) What I hadn't realized, however, was that Moog's been building theremins since he was in highschool. My question is: does anyone know whether the "new" theremin has yet shipped, and what its features are (is it available as a MIDI controller and/or an integrated instrument?) Thanks, folks! --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- email: bc492@scn.org telephone: (206)728-7145 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:14:04 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Expolding into the fractal zoom In-Reply-To: <199510112248.SAA29372@clark.net> from "Joe McMahon" at Oct 11, 95 06:48:44 pm Joe McMahon writes-- > >I'd say that my creativity has possibly increased; we never seem to play the >same thing at any given pair of practice sessions, anyway... :) I'm having to >actually work on clamping down and focusing, more than anything else. I could start a thread on whether a lack of ability to focus can go hand in hand with being more creative (citing Fripp's discourses on the discipline of the creative process, yada yada), but we'll end up even further afield than we did with the classical composition thread, so I won't. (My favorite Wagner reference was by Nietzsche: "Is Wagner a human? Is he not rather a disease?" Actually I went to see a Wagner opera once. The best part was where she took her clothes off. No, wait, that was Strauss, wasn't it? Never mind. Speaking of lack of focus....) mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:34:13 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: <01HWBLUUALMQ8ZELL1@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU> from "John Krikawa" at Oct 11, 95 05:29:06 pm John Krikawa writes-- > >'Too many options, focus, creativity, exponential, fear': the terms creep in >when adding virtually any gear (except perhaps those fancy coffee cup holders). Oooh, do you have one of those? I have one on order, but I may cancel it and wait for the next ROM rev, which fixes the 'spill on ABBA tunes' bug. >For me this ties in deeply with the compositional thread in that it is >becoming more and more apparent that dealing with equipment needs to be done >on an entirely different level, and often needs to be done before composing >(at least the way I compose). I am tired of changing the way my equipment is >linked and the software I use. Right now, I am striving for a bit of stability >in the current studio configuration, but I have a ways to go in terms of >getting technical details out of the way: And yet another tale of woe unfolds.... it amazes me how we see, over and over again, people struggling with the need to be able to properly 'encompass' the resources of their studios in their minds....Nick often speaks of 'being able to keep his whole rig in his head at once', and the allure of a small and easily understood rig is very tempting after the Nth studio breakdown-and-reconfig where N is an embarrassingly large integer. For my part, I have discovered that the mindspace I have available for such things is shrinking rapidly, as is the time needed to reconfigure things on a casual basis. As the job hunt and parenting absorb more and more of my time, my rig, which is already smaller than it has been since 1988, is more and more out of my control. I have found myself confronted with a rack of modules and a stand with a couple of keyboards on it, many of which have been sitting in my rig for literally years and are still partly or mostly impenetrable to me, simply due to a lack of time to sit down and grok them. I buy new items bsaed on a vague theoretical basis of 'this is a useful concept; I will buy it since it is a good deal and will incorporate it in place as soon as my mindspace permits' (i.e. never). As I type this, my studio's audio wiring is totally scrambled: I bought a new patchbay recently and am still in the process of rewiring things to give myself room to grow. "Recently" meaning August. My power cabling has been a mess for at least that long, and the MIDI setup never really got back up and running properly after the BALLISTIC sessions in January. Aiieee. As for actually composing music...yeah, sure, right. I'm getting so discouraged by how hard it is to actually get something done that I'm contemplating selling off all but one or two of my synths and using the money to buy a multitrack recorder and just do overdubs of something nice and simple, like an Xpander. I can trace where my compositional method went 'wrong' back to the day I stopped using my crummy little Fostex X-15 four-track tape deck to record ideas and began trying to record large numbers of virtual tracks with a MIDI sequencer. So my main question is, can I break through the conceptual wall of getting a sequencer to do music the way I see it in my head (I got close with one of the Silent Volumes, 'Eight From The Deck', but then I went and did something stupid (upgraded from Vision 1.3 to Vision 2.0) and knocked myself for a loop again) before I go totally insane, or should I go back to one or two instruments and a multitrack and admit defeat once and for all...? >SO there's a ubiquitous technical counterpoint to getting music from heart >to speaker. They are synergistic, profoundly different in approach, and >highly co-dependent. And co-antagonistic in many minds. I greatly envy one of my fellow Team members, who is literally able to look at his large, messy studio, shrug, and sit down and work with one box at a time while the rest dangles unused. It must be nice. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:54:06 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Expolding into the fractal zoom In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Oct 14, 95 09:16:36 am Nick Rothwell does fine up to about here when he writes-- > >I think this is one of those approaches which is extremely limiting in >terms of flexibility, but where that is GOOD. > >When the DDMP7 arrives my plan is to attach the UltraProteus, one of the >Wavestation racks, and the Lexicon boxes, and that will be IT. MIDI and >mains power in, stereo out. It'll be my live rig, basically; everything >else will be studio-based. But then he states: >Hmm. But then there's the MicroWave... Frac-tal ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!! See ya next year, buddy. mike (the moral of the story: strictures aren't strictures if you ease them) -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:46:35 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Save Our Shark In-Reply-To: from "roger king" at Oct 13, 95 04:00:00 pm roger king writes-- > >There was a call for papers from U of Florida a while back. >Psychoacoustics was one of the subjects they welcomed. >While I was putting-in my twenty hours I did some lampoon >type thinking on the subject. The later the hours got, >the weirder became the lampooning possibilities. > I know you work hard and take things extremely >seriously when it comes to your earned leisure time. >Please forgive me for not being more specific. > I do have pet sharks. One of them does have a >tendency to over-react to sounds of different sorts. >But I didn't intend to rattle your cage, Mike. Don't worry about it; my cage is eminently rattlable without harm. It was very funny, in retrospect, but the technical questions were just off base enough (and coming from you, to boot) that I wanted to be sure it wasn't just the sleep deprivation...no need to apologize; it takes a lot more than that to yank my chain, and since neither Gregory Taylor nor Jeff Harrington is around any more and Mark Simon and I seem to have buried the proverbial hatchet (and my wife is cutting back on my Geritol), I'm a pretty hard badger to upset these days. ;) > It's bad enough that the Pirates are leaving >Pittsburgh. You don't need some Hoosier jerking you >around. :) Oh, are the Pirates really leaving at last? They'll be mourned for, oh, a year, then it'll be Steeler season again, people will pop an Arn and all will be forgotten. (I miss Pittsburgh terribly, but it's not likely I'll get back there soon. I live in Florida) As for your second comment, I reserve my opinions. South bend.... BTW, if you want to know how fast sound moves in your shark tank, I'll be glad to work out the numbers for you. It wouldn't be hard. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:11:16 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: THEREMIN In-Reply-To: from "Eric Sluyter" at Oct 15, 95 11:29:23 pm > I've just returned from a screening of "Theremin: An Electronic Odyssy". > Pretty interesting/entertaining (interestaining?) stuff. > > I had heard somewhere (was it at this list?) that Robert Moog was putting > updated versions of the theremin into production. (Oh, now I remember, it > was on an NPR program.) What I hadn't realized, however, was that Moog's > been building theremins since he was in highschool. > > My question is: does anyone know whether the "new" theremin has yet > shipped, and what its features are (is it available as a MIDI controller > and/or an integrated instrument?) They're shipping very slowly. I think they take 6 months or so to build, and they only build them when somebody orders one. They're very expensive. MIDI is available for even more money. That's what I heard from a young lady who ordered one, I think it may have been on SYNTH-L. The old codgers on this list certainly wouldn't have tolerated her dispersal of that info here, that's for sure... You could ask about it there, or I could go home and dig out the old emails on the subject. -- _______ KB7PWD @ N7MRP.AZ.US.NOAM shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * quantize the universe * X window * VRML * techno * robotics * C++ * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 16:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: L-L-Lack, um, of... foc...foc...ahh, somethingorother >>For me this ties in deeply with the compositional thread in that it is >>becoming more and more apparent that dealing with equipment needs to be done >>on an entirely different level, and often needs to be done before composing >>(at least the way I compose). Or after composing. I prefer to get all the conceptual work done first, or at least enough of it done that the main train of thought is down on paper, and I can twiddle knobs as I please without losing creative time. I devote the first hour of composing time, granted I'm blessed with that much of it, to pencil and paper work, and that will be just the merest suggestion of melody with reminders of what I wanted to do with harmony, inner parts, etc. The kinds of sounds I want I have to keep in my head until I get to the next stage, which is putting what I've written into the sequencer and trying to assign sounds to each track. Yes, I start with factory presets (boo, hiss) then I say, "no that's not quite right let's start twiddling". Yes, I confess it I almost never create sound from scratch. On the other hand I almost never leave a preset unaltered. But I see I'm digressing already. The point is, ah let's see, there was a point to this wasn't there, that I've found the most efficient way to get my ideas down is to go from very vague to very specific. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon mgs2@cornell.edu \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:16:34 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Re: Prophecy: EMUSIC-L Digest - 12/13 Oct 1995 Nick Rothwell said: >I'm interested in the programmability and control of the modelling engine. I think that this probably puts him (and me) in a minority with regard to Prophecy users. Everyone that I talk to seems to want cliched sounds (in a specific genre) and forget programmability. People who program their own sounds seem to be in a minority - except perhaps on this list, of course. Whenever I've asked questions of manufacturers about programming, they always seem suprised that I have any interest. I sometimes get the impression that the programmability is put in there solely for the in-house (and freelance) programmers! Worse still, I seem to be one of the few people who likes performance controls beyond velocity/after-touch and the mod wheel - I use a foot pedal, breath controller, second mod wheel, etc, all the time. >Filter sweeps and arpeggiators? We have seen it all before, didn't we, >didn't >we? Filter sweeps I can live with (in context, and carefully used), but the first synth I ever bought (as opposed to designed an built myself - I got lazy) was a Sequential Pro-One, so I can see some of the appeal of arpeggiators. But these days, with my sequencer on my computer, I don't feel any real need for an arpeggiator - and who wants monotonous 16 beat arpeggiated sequences these days? (OK, so TD emulators might!) But I am quite prepared to be converted...any good arpeggio examples? (apart from on Ballistic, which is on my 'must buy' list already) Regards Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:12:27 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: sharks, hemiola, and form Is it true that sharks have to move continuously or otherwise drown? I think I heard Cousteau say that once, but I'm not sure. One good example of hemiola that sinks in well with some of the freshmen here can be found in Living Color's "Cult of Personality." If we continue the discussion of form, we might want to examine the differences between open and closed structures. For many artists, rejection of singularity seems to be a fundamental aesthetic. As for formal complexity, the sonata encompasses so many variations that discussions of other forms are often connected to the sonata. I think it would be interesting to see how composers think about formal "conventions" such as the issue of return, closure, continuity, etc. Scott Mc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 21:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Crandall Subject: Southworth MIDI archaeology (repost) Comments: To: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" Our system was flaky over the weekend, so maybe this didn't make it to the list. Or maybe everybody was proccupied with those burning, itching hemiolas. Here 'tis again, with apologies in case it's a repeat. ------------- A couple of questions about some fairly ancient gear... I own a Jambox 4+ (why not? works fine so far) but will probably start doing more MIDI controller-intensive work soon. I remember hearing about a recommended chip replacement for that unit to help it move data around better. Anybody remember what that upgrade was? or if/where the chip is available? Also, I've used MidiPaint all along and my files are in that format. What's the difference between MidiPaint and Standard Midi File format (either type)? Just a header change, or is the data in different order/encoding? The files don't seem to be text (at least as read by Word) -- any conversion apps out there? (Please no commercials for other gear I should have instead -- I'll get an MTP (or II) when I run out of options, but meanwhile cash is cash ;-) Thx in advance, dcrand1@umbc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 14:34:44 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom Previously-- >> >>'Too many options, focus, creativity, exponential, fear': the terms creep in >>when adding virtually any gear (except perhaps those fancy coffee cup >>holders). > >Oooh, do you have one of those? I have one on order, but I may cancel it >and wait for the next ROM rev, which fixes the 'spill on ABBA tunes' bug. > Get the upgrade. I have one, and it's now 100% guaranteed to spill on all ABBA tunes. But the response can be a little violent: a friend was admiring our new holder when my wife started humming a medley from our ABBA compliation tape (Vols 1-37). He's due out of intensive care next week, but sadly the coffee cup will never be the same. >>For me this ties in deeply with the compositional thread in that it is >>becoming more and more apparent that dealing with equipment needs to be done >>on an entirely different level.... [discussion on equipment input vs creative output] For me, this is a straightforward issue of simplicity vs functionality. I have one synth, one computer and a 4-track (oh, and a guitar or two). When this REALLY REALLY REALLY starts to limit me, I'll expand it, but it has to be worth the effort. Any addition would have to meet a need, be affordable in terms of time and money, and preferably have good resale value (I always buy 2nd-hand). Examples: I'm finding that patch editing on the synth is too time-consuming so I'm attempting to write a patch editor. I'm prepared to devote the time to this now, because I believe it will more than compensate for angst of not doing it. I'd also like a triggerable drum synth, since at the moment I have to hammer the drum lines in from the keyboard, or paint, cut and paste in the sequencer. But I can manage like this, and I'm learning a good deal about rhythm patterns so I won't be buying one yet. And it gives me a chance to window shop, talk to people etc etc. But I also have the great advantage of rarely having deadlines to meet, and of having very little time and no money. Makes it much easier. Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 02:45:46 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: sharks, hemiola, and form Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Scott Mc. wrote: >If we continue the discussion of form, we might want to examine the differences between open and closed structures. For many artists, rejection of singularity seems to be a fundamental aesthetic. As for formal complexity, the sonata encompasses so many variations that discussions of other forms are often connected to the sonata. I think it would be interesting to see how composers think about formal "conventions" such as the issue of return, closure, continuity, etc. > Big subject. From a technical standpoint I think Form is probably the hardest issue that a composer deals with. In terms of return/closure/continuity we are dealing so much with metaphor that I think there is a real breakdown between the linguistic idea and musical sounds. Freeing myself up from traditional terms has helped me to better understand the metaphors. For instance the term "closure" (closing, close). Literally a piece reaches definitive closure when it is over. Yet a composer can expose new materials at the end of a piece to hint at another direction, that hasn't been followed up on here, implying that the piece has things remaining to be explored, possibly elsewhere, possibly even in the imagination of the listener. Varese's Density might be seen this way. He ends it as an entirely new harmonic idiom is being exposed. Steve Reich does the same thing only with a more cosmological(?) sensibility I think in many of his pieces. He implies continuance after the fact by his reification of the present brought about by the reinforcement of the materials of the present. He does it at the other end too, starting a piece seemingly in mid-stream (Octet is a good example). The listener gets the impression of opening a door on a party that's already in progress. The open-endedness is further underlined by his ending the piece in a key area that's the dominant of the opening. The music simply stops as though a door has been slammed shut, but the metaphors are rich in implying that the music continues on. Metaphorically he has found a way in this music to demonstrate the infinite (didn't say it was a great piece, but still can't wait for the flames to roll in). In my own work I often try to play with these sorts of metaphoric implications. In one piece for instance I slowed the harmonic rhythm across the entire work, but I also increased the ordinary rhythmic motion across the entire piece. It wasn't as bald as I describe as there were moments of push and pull both ways, but the final impact of the piece had two seemingly contradictory motions - stability and frenzy - both operating at the same time, and both with nowhere to go except for an _implication_ that they continued off the page and beyond the performances, . . . well let's hope so. Now about returns, don't get me started. Jeff Talman NYC-USA jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:39:24 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Call For Music Submissions Comments: To: analogue@hyperreal.com, dat-heads@virginia.edu, gib@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu, midi@dsps2.att.com, mirage@hpdsojk.ptp.hp.com, sgroup@lotus.uwaterloo.ca, space-music@cs.uwp.edu, sy-list@chorus.fr, synth-l@american.edu, vectory@webcom.com, wavestation@otax.tky.hut.fi, xpansions@webcom.com Hello Musician Friends, Since I'm posting this to several lists, not all of which am I currently a member, please excuse me if you are bothered by seeing this post multiple times. And please, make all responses to my personal email address, not to any of the lists, unless your comments warrant wider discussion. WDIY 88.1 FM in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania is a new Public Radio Station, serving the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, and surrounding communities). It came on the air on January 1, 1995 and is aptly named. It is truely "Do It Yourself" radio. There are only four emplyees - all the rest of the people who run and operate the station are volunteers! I'm one of the many volunteers, having engineered one of the locally produced shows. But now I have my license from the FCC and plan to take a more active role and hopefully an on air role as soon as possible. Hence, this call for music. Last night, I "discovered" that WDIY has a weekly Experimental Music program. (Sunday from 11pm to 1am.) It follows a Contemporary Classical Music program. Although the Experimental Music program is including Ambient music, I'd like to host a show that is more emusic and ambient oriented. To this end, I'd like to beef up the station's library of music with your contributions. If you have Experimental, Emusic, Ambient, Electro-acoustic, or other suitable music that you'd like to receive airplay exposure, please send your audio cassette, LP, CD, or DAT to: Bill Fox c/o WDIY 88.1 FM 301 Broadway Bethlehem, Pennsylvania 18015 To communicat with me, here's my email address: wbf@aloft.att.com Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 06:12:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Trish O'neil Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA * 503-655-3927 Subject: Re: Coda e-mail address M>From: Matt McCracken M>To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L M>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:13:33 -0400 M>Subject: Re: Coda e-mail address I don't know their e-mail address, but there is a mailing list, like this one- I just signed up for it (just found it yesterday...... send e- mail to: LISTSERV@SHSU.edu; in the body of the message put SUBSCRIBE FINALE Those were the directions I got- see you there, if it works.....I'm a newbie on Finale, the learning curve is a bitch, but I'm almost score-capable, I'd be glad to help if I can..... 10/16/95 trish.o'neil@bbs.locally.com Let us taunt it; perhaps it will become cross, & go awayCMPQwk1.42-R2 313 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 10:08:46 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: gert braakman Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 16 Oct 1995 to 17 Oct 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:29:23 -0700 From: Eric Sluyter Subject: THEREMIN > >I've just returned from a screening of "Theremin: An Electronic Odyssy". >Pretty interesting/entertaining (interestaining?) stuff. Hi eric, You might want to know that there is a therimin page on the WEB at http://www.vuse.vanderbilt.edu/~jbbarile/theremin.html Best, Gert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 23:56:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Michalski Organization: File Connection BBS Subject: Re: computer composit MT<>actually, hitler's main ideas came from the gospel according to st. matthew MT<>(that stuff about the guilt falling upon us and our children) and a desire MT<>to "christianize" europe, which he almost succeeded in doing much to MT<>everyone's distress..... but that is another thread. Whoa! Hitler used the Gospel to his advantage. He twisted it in much the same way other white supremecists twist it to say that separation of the races is a Christian concept. His ideas did not come from the Gospel of St. Matthew. He used it to promote his ideas. Big difference. BIG difference. Mike --- * OLX 2.1 TD * I didn't write this; a very complex macro did. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 09:51:14 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Macalester College Music Department Subject: Re: computer composit In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 16 Oct 1995 23:56:00 +0000 (GMT)" <334927686-951016195600@fileconn.org> > MT<>actually, hitler's main ideas came from the gospel according to st. matthew > MT<>(that stuff about the guilt falling upon us and our children) and a desire > MT<>to "christianize" europe, which he almost succeeded in doing much to > MT<>everyone's distress..... but that is another thread. > > Whoa! Hitler used the Gospel to his advantage. He twisted it in much > the same way other white supremecists twist it to say that separation of > the races is a Christian concept. His ideas did not come from the > Gospel of St. Matthew. He used it to promote his ideas. > > Big difference. BIG difference. > > Mike > --- > * OLX 2.1 TD * I didn't write this; a very complex macro did. 1. The original post was sent under Subject: Computer Composit I really do not think this has anything to do with that subject 2. I strongly urge anyone interested in this debate (???) to a. get on the international gopher b. select Jerusalem One c. select Holocaust Related Documents and then tell us that Hitler's actions were gospel based. Shame! 3. Finally, take this thread elsewhere! +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Ed Forner Macalester College Music Department + + forner@macalstr.edu voice (612) 696-6189 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:06:56 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: moog's theremin moog's company is Big Briar, at 554-C Riverside Dr. Ashville NC 28801 800-948-1990 i don't know if anything's changed, but the toy i saw was a nicely finished piece of briar wood with two brass loops extending out of it, one horizontal and one vertical. when powered, motion around these loops generated control voltages available at 1/4 jacks on the side. quite simple, quite elegant. unlike the original theremin instrument, it did not include a tone generator... it was simply a controller. midi capability i wouldn't know about. at the same time, i saw another controller that i actually thought was much cooler... it was a flat briarwood pad with a touch sensitive plastic inset surface... about 6x6 inches or a little less, if i remember correctly. when you touched the plate, it generated the following contorl voltage outputs: x position, y position, vector, integral, and velocity. i loved the demonstration of hooking the various outputs to different parameters of a basic patch and dropping a marble on it. the marble bounced around on the plate, and of course its bouncing dropped in velocity and rose in speed logarithmically. lovely. what a set of control shapes. btw... i don't know why anyone here would think that 'us old codgers' wouldn't "allow" a discussion like this here. i've made it pretty clear that you just can't completely separate talk about instrumentation from talk about music, and i for one am not going to try... this is my home. i've tried hanging out on synth-l for a little while, but have found so little content amid all the "what card should i use" blah that it just wasn't worth it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:23:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Adamson Subject: Re: Southworth MIDI archaeology (repost) % Our system was flaky over the weekend, so maybe this didn't make it to the % list. Or maybe everybody was proccupied with those burning, itching % hemiolas. Here 'tis again, with apologies in case it's a repeat. % % ------------- % A couple of questions about some fairly ancient gear... % % I own a Jambox 4+ (why not? works fine so far) but will probably start % doing more MIDI controller-intensive work soon. I remember hearing about % a recommended chip replacement for that unit to help it move data around % better. Anybody remember what that upgrade was? or if/where the chip is % available? % % Also, I've used MidiPaint all along and my files are in that format. % What's the difference between MidiPaint and Standard Midi File format % (either type)? Just a header change, or is the data in different % order/encoding? The files don't seem to be text (at least as read by % Word) -- any conversion apps out there? Hi Dave, I wrote a program a little while back which will convert MidiPaint segment files into Standard Midi File format (I'll give it to you ... you need to tell the program the meter and the tempo for the segments ...it doesn't deal with tempo maps) .... Another option is to get a copy of the other (i can't remember its name) lower end sequencing package that Southworth made ... it could save segments a standard Midi files I believe ... but it still costs money while my app is free ... I made this program when I moved from MidiPaint to Vision ... I could write code to go from Std. Midi -> MidiPaint but haven't had the need ... I've been meaning to make this available to anonymous ftp sites but haven't been pressed with a demand :-) ... Tell me the format and how you'd like it .. I'll send the app as well as source code. % % (Please no commercials for other gear I should have instead -- I'll get an % MTP (or II) when I run out of options, but meanwhile cash is cash ;-) % % Thx in advance, % dcrand1@umbc.edu Brian ___________________________________________________________________ R. Brian Adamson adamson@itd.nrl.navy.mil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 11:35:41 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom metlay laments: > [. . .] As I type this, my >studio's audio wiring is totally scrambled: I bought a new patchbay >recently and am still in the process of rewiring things to give myself >room to grow. "Recently" meaning August. My power cabling has been a >mess for at least that long, and the MIDI setup never really got back >up and running properly after the BALLISTIC sessions in January. Aiieee. Of all things to mess up one's life...a patchbay! A piece of gear: just plug it into the mixer and use a MIDI cable. A patchbay: 'pass the pipe please, manana, manana' Ha. >As for actually composing music...yeah, sure, right. I'm getting so >discouraged by how hard it is to actually get something done that I'm >contemplating selling off all but one or two of my synths and using >the money to buy a multitrack recorder and just do overdubs of something >nice and simple, like an Xpander. [. . .] Simplicity has its allure. A couple of synths and a recording device (of course you'll need to keep your fx boxes). . .burp. . It just occurred to me that as soon as you introduce a computer (ok maybe a patchbay too) you open up a much more complicated composing environment. I too remember using a Portastudio four-track for several years. Dumping right to tape made 'performance' a much more important issue, imbuing the CrO2 with a heart-felt passage. No velocity-tweaks, phrase-cutting, controller painting, none of it. When I listen to some of my older recordings done with a breath controlled DX-100 and HR-16, there was a lot of feeling captured in there that has eluded some more recent sequencer tidbits I had been working on. Part of it maybe that damn temporal thing: most sequencers have 'measures' and 'ticks', I want chunks, and little-diddies. I seriously doubt I'll go sequencer-less, too much power is offered by the data manipulation abilities, patch changing, effects modulation, etc. I'm planning on adding a multitrack soon (only have 2trk cassette right now), so it is my hopes that I can augment sequences with some free-form jam and augment some free-form jamming with sequenced or apreggiated material. >So my main question is, can I break through the conceptual wall of getting >a sequencer to do music the way I see it in my head. Probably. ;p Regards, -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 11:51:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom Clive sez: >For me, this is a straightforward issue of simplicity vs functionality. I >have one synth, one computer and a 4-track (oh, and a guitar or two). When >this REALLY REALLY REALLY starts to limit me, I'll expand it, but it has to >be worth the effort. Any addition would have to meet a need, be affordable >in terms of time and money, and preferably have good resale value (I always >buy 2nd-hand). Way to be, man. I used to have a four-track and no computer, by the time I got a computer, I didn't have a four-track, so I've never really experienced them together. I did however find 4 tracks limiting because I love stereo imaging and hate bouncing analog. Now that 8 tracks of digital can be got for just under $2000, maybe that won't be such a big deal. Is there anyone who used to strictly compose to analog 8-track, now using digital tape (like an ADAT of DA-88)? Is there any difference in the way you compose or record? If it gets too gearish (garish?) we can move it to SYNTH-L. Regards, -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:53:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: THEREMIN >I've just returned from a screening of "Theremin: An Electronic Odyssy". >Pretty interesting/entertaining (interestaining?) stuff. --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- Eric: Are ondes musicales still being built? The Theremin, invented by Leon Theremin about 1924, had a cousin called the ondes musicales. The Theremin's pitch changed with the right hand, and the velocity was controlled by the left hand. Orchestrally, the only problem was with glissando, or the sliding from one pitch to the next while the right hand moved. (Some Theremin players, such as Jimmy Page, actually prefer the glissando effect.) The ondes musicales, on the other hand, had a device that separated the oscillated tones. It was developed in 1928 by a Mr. Martenot. On, October 10th, Christoph Kummerer, beamed up a catalog kit description to the gearheads. www.paia.com/paia had a ThereMAX kit for sale. Basically, a Theremin consists of two oscillators. An horizontal loop antenna connected to the left oscillator, and a vertical rod antenna connected to the right. Both oscillators connect to a speaker or other output. Does the Theremax have a MIDI out? The last EM article on the subject showed a picture of Leon Theremin's grand daughter playing one. EM showed a price of $1500. Is that still the going rate? jollyroger@iquest.net S.ignal P.rocessor A.nd M.ixer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:49:38 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: THEREMIN jollyman writes: >On, October 10th, Christoph Kummerer, beamed up a catalog kit >description to the gearheads. www.paia.com/paia had a >ThereMAX kit for sale. [. . .] >Does the Theremax have a MIDI out? No, it spits out CV. Here's the excerpt from the that page for the web-less: >In addition to the traditional pure sine wave tone, Theremax provides a >square wave output that is rich in harmonics and ideal for use with >external filters and processors. And to control outboard units, there are >Control Voltage outputs for pitch and volume. A convenient foot switch >input allows muting the internal tone source without disabling the CVs. > >But Theremax's most unique features are it's Velocity Control Voltage >(proportional to the rate-of-change of volume) and Gate/Trigger >outputs. Internally, Velocity is wired so that it can be used to produce >transient asymmetrical distortions in the output - imagine a theremin >that can really be played fortissimo, or pizzicato. Ordered my kit last week (board/parts only). They are back-ordered until the middle of Nov 95. I can't wait to sample its nastiness. ObligEM: sounds like a good composing restraint; all bits must be derived from Theremax out and tweaked using VAST synthesis. No deviations permitted. :) -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:29:55 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Amanda Pehlke, Cikira Studio MIDI Suite" Subject: A rig to reckon with Hi, E-music 'ers, Just for your amusement: here is Amanda's personal formula for keeping musical creativity almost completely at bay: scroll if you dare through the gear/software list that follows, bearing in mind that we are talikng corner-of the-basement home studio here. The second workstation described below is supposed to be streamlined enough to allow myself or a second person to develop musical ideas, rough sound ideas, and MIDI tracks with SERENITY and SIMPLICITY, to be transferred to the full arsenal of System One. Ha! Where do you think you'll find ME on a given day??--messing with HOW IT ALL WORKS! When you stop laughing, flame me on the Synth-L list, please---the point of this was to underscore the thread that effective musical composition and rig-control are mutually antagonistic mind-sets. These days I'm almost to the point of having discovered all the technical difficulties in my music system. Now to get ahold of that S-Com software and 400-page manual. That should keep me from doing any good music for another couple of years ;-) CIKIRA STUDIO MIDI SUITE Equipment & Software 1995 cikiramidi@aol.com (509) 697-4050 * (E) with computer editor/librarian (Galaxy or Max) and complete factory and third-party patch libraries (L) Galaxy librarian only COMPUTER SYSTEMS / PERIPHERALS: System I. Macintosh Quadra 650: System 7.5, 24 megs RAM, OMS; 2 Opcode Studio 4 Interfaces for 16 MIDI ports in, 20 out System II. 2nd Macintosh Quadra 650: same internal configuration; (Interfaces: see below) Supra Fax/Modem Apple StyleWriter II Ink-Jet Printer MACINTOSH SYSTEM I EQUIPMENT / REMARKS MIDI Data Input and Input Processing: Big Briar Series 91C Moog Theremin Oberheim Cyclone Arpeggiator Oberheim Drummer Pattern & fill generator Oberheim Strummer Guitar simulator Peavey DK-20 Digital 88 key Piano / MIDI to either Mac Peavey PC-1600 Controller /16 user defined faders (L) Yamaha BC-2 with Anatek Wind Machine MIDI-Controlled Sound Modules: Alesis QuadraSynth plus Piano Kb +Factory cards (L) Alesis D4 Drum Module (E) E-mu Procussion Module (E) E-mu Morpheus Z-Plane Synth +Factory cards (E) E-mu MPS Plus Orchestral Kb (E) E-mu UltraProteus +Factory cards (E) E-mu Vintage Keys Plus (L) Korg 03R/W Synth / 01/W's sound module (E) Korg 03R/W Synth (2nd unit) +Factory cards (E) Korg Wavestation EX Kb +Factory cards (E) Korg Wavestation SR Module +Factory cards (E) Oberheim Matrix 1000 Analog synth (E) Oberheim Matrix 1000 (2nd unit) (E) Peavey DPM Spectrum Bass (E via PC1600) Roland P-55 Piano Module Roland SC-55 Sound Canvas (E) Roland SC-88 Sound Canvas (E) Roland U-220 Sound Module +Factory cards (E) Effects and Special Processors: Alesis 3630 Compressor/Limiter/Gate Alesis Quadraverb 2 BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer Boss SE-70 Multi-Effects dbx Project 1/286 Mic Processor Digitech VHM5 Vocalist / MIDI pitch & harmonies Digitech Studio Vocalist / 5 outputs Lexicon LXP-1 Reverb and Effects (E) Lexicon LXP-5 Effects (L) Macintosh System 1 Recording Equipment: Re-an 48-point audio patchbay Mackie CR-1604 Recording Mixer Mackie LM-3204 Line Mixer / 32 channel sub-mix Rane SM26 Splitter Mixer / Mix split to 3 decks & monitors Rane SM26 (2nd unit) / 3 Deck outputs routed to monitors Alesis ADAT Digital Multi-Track -- 1 unit J.L.Cooper Datamaster Synchronizer / ADAT+ virtual tracks Tascam 122mkIII Stereo Cassette / High-performance analog Tascam DA-30 DAT Tascam DA-30MkII DAT Sony TCD-D7 Portable DAT +digital coaxial cable Tascam 202mkII Dual Cassette / Parallel dubbing MACINTOSH SYSTEM II EQUIPMENT E-mu SoundEngine (GM / Proteus) Modem port interface (E) E-mu SoundEngine (2nd unit) Printer port interface (E) J.L. Cooper Fadermaster Professional J.L. Cooper Nexxus MIDI Switcher Alesis SR16 Drum Machine E-mu Proformance Plus Piano Module Kurzweil Micro-Piano Roland JW-50 GS Workstation / Saves Std. MIDI Files Mackie MS-1202 Mixer / System 1 mix; deck mix; System 2 mix Fostex X-28H 4-Track Recorder Miscellaneous Composition and Recording Equipment: Yamaha PSR-6700 Keyboard / 76 key "interactive" Yamaha QY-20 Sequencer / Portable music system Yamaha QY-22 Sequencer / General MIDI-upgraded Novation MM10x 26-key Controller +case for QY units Audio-Technica AT4050 large-diaphragm condenser mic Audio-Technica AT4033 large-diaphragm condenser mic TOA model K3 Condenser mic Peavey PVM 580-TN Dynamic mic Sealed phones: AKG 270S (2), Beyer DT770, Sony MDR-7506 Open phones: Beyer DT990 , Sennheiser HD580 Alesis RA-100 Reference Amplifiers (2) Alesis Monitor One speakers Alesis Monitor Two speakers Yamaha YST-SW50 sub-woofer Yamaha MS 20S Monitor Speakers CURRENT VERSION MIDI SOFTWARE (in both Systems) Interactive Graphic MIDI Programming Environment: Opcode--Max Universal Patch Editor/Librarian: Opcode--Galaxy Plus Editors Dedicated Notation Software: Coda--Finale Opcode--Overture Passport Designs--Encore Sequencing with Sys-Ex Recording and Notation: Opcode--Vision Opcode--Musicshop (for MIDI tutorials) Music Composition: Eccentric Software--A Zillion-Kajillion Rhymes Ars Nova--Songworks (+custom edit-function upgrade by author) Dr. T's--Jam Factory Dr. T's--"M" MiBAC Jazz Improvisation PG Music--Band in a Box +Norton Styles collection MIDIFILE COMPOSING/SEQUENCING RESOURCES (9.5 MB MIDI DATA) (All material has been converted to Vision files for easy use.) Drum Sequence Libraries 5 Pin Press Drum Patterns 5 Pin Press Rap Patterns Beatboy Drum Sequences Cool Shoes Drums DrumTrax WorldTrax Mixed Music, Drum and Controller pattern collections Big City Productions MidiFile Libraries New Sound Music MidiFile Libraries Keyfax Twiddly Bits Libraries ...Wow, you read the whole thing. Man after my heart. Now please be polite! A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 07:41:26 +0900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: kirk gale Subject: Re: Save our Shark well Roger King: how about an update on the shark (or another spoof if that's what is is - and we should hope so for the poor - and obviously baby - shark). Roger would have gotten a quicker answer on the Scuba listserv group: sound moves thru water 4 times faster than thru air... the main psycho effect thereof which any diver experiences is that you can't tell from where the sound is coming from (you lose stereo perception bec. 4 times faster is just to fast for the part of the brain that normally only has to perceive which ear caught air-carried sounds before the other). So Roger can save some bucks and buy a mono audio system (unless the proven nerves running along the entire length of both sides of the shark's exterior can sense more than sweat and fear). but didn't Roger also ask how much the music should be *slowed down* as if he were going to timestretch a sample for the poor beast? now that's a calculation I wouldn't mind seeing our host Mike run for us, seeing as he's offered and all! Kirk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 20:30:57 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matt McCracken Subject: Re: sharks, hemiola, and form No- in fact some sharks have been found in recent years sleeping, motionless, on the sea floor. -Matt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 14:12:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: apology Comments: cc: fuzen@IX.NETCOM.COM Dear Todd: Please come back to the Emusic list. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, and agree with you about the enjoyment of music. If I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be on the list attempting to learn more about a subject that offers so much to learn and have fun with. It's not like I don't listen to the modern synth Gods. And the list of modern electronic musicians increasingly grows more interesting. I believe, though, that the worst thing any artist can do is stop communicating with others in his field. I learned from that thread, and I see changes in my own compositions in just the past week that show improvement. I attribute this "focus" of analytical attention to having read and reread thread entries from artists such as yourself, Marshall, Mark, and others. People started talking about Hitler. The reason why no one admired Hitler's paintings was because none of them contain any people. His alienated paranoia prohibited him from painting any living subjects. Hitler's works are primarily of beautiful marble palaces that are stark, and completely unpopulated. Todd, please re-think your decision to unsubscribe. I'm sorry I started the flame in the first place and humbly ask your forgiveness. Thanks. Roger jollyroger@iquest.net S.ignal P.rocessor A.nd M.ixer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:27:38 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: L-L-Lack, um, of... foc...foc...ahh, somethingorother mark simon wrote: >Or after composing. I prefer to get all the conceptual work done first, or >at least enough of it done that the main train of thought is down on paper, >and I can twiddle knobs as I please without losing creative time. I devote >the first hour of composing time, granted I'm blessed with that much of it, >to pencil and paper work, and that will be just the merest suggestion of >melody with reminders of what I wanted to do with harmony, inner parts, etc. >The kinds of sounds I want I have to keep in my head until I get to the next >stage, which is putting what I've written into the sequencer and trying to >assign sounds to each track. Yes, I start with factory presets (boo, hiss) >then I say, "no that's not quite right let's start twiddling". Yes, I >confess it I almost never create sound from scratch. On the other hand I >almost never leave a preset unaltered. But I see I'm digressing already. That's an interesting (and probably productive) way to work. I need to try that. Thank you. Kind of like painting a picture where you splash on a basic structure and color and shade it later, maybe going over the rough areas while refocusing on thematic values. I find a lot of my stuff inspired by the sound of a patch and that's why I twiddle first, but to ignore the timbre and concentrate on frequency and phrasing will be a good restraint. A painting teacher I had (and like many art teachers I suppose) set up constraints in order to feed creativity and it really worked well. I am trying to develop some notes for such excerises in emusic in order to expand the ways I compose. Kind of a composing palette to draw from and force myself to use. I'd rather not be into doing things the same way *all* of the time. -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:28:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Save our Shark Kirk Gale: > sound moves thru water 4 times faster than thru air... > >you can't tell from where the sound is coming from (you lose stereo perception > >but didn't Roger also ask how much the music should be *slowed down* as if >he were going to timestretch a sample for the poor beast? Would it be better to sample pitch-shifted analog recordings to play under the water? That way I could change wave shapes to check for behavioral responses. Also, rewind and playback would be easier. I would not want to change just the tempo and not the pitch, would I? The shark should be given the full opportunity to hear the music as it was written played, not accounting for the stereo effect, as you taught us. (A Victrola recorded, pitch shifted, sampled, edited, and played to the shark via a waterproof speaker system. Perhaps a Bing Crosby 78 of "Blue Hawaii," which permeates the air here on occasion of visits from Grandma. :) jollyroger@iquest.net S.ignal P.rocessor A.nd M.ixer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:42:37 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: A rig to reckon with Sick Amanda: >When you stop laughing, flame me on the Synth-L list, please---the point of >this was to underscore the thread that effective musical composition and >rig-control are mutually antagonistic mind-sets. [25 page list of assorted musical paraphernalia deleted] Well, really woman, I don't know how in the world you manage to get ANYTHING useful done. That's a lot of cordage. Do you compose? How do you start? Do you get a tune in your head or do you just throw a piece of gum at your rack, and start tweaking the instrument it lands on (I may just try that, but it'd probably get stuck to the carpet)? Perhaps you are the ultimate physical experiment of this thread, in that if you compose, how much does the equipment get in the way? >...Wow, you read the whole thing. Man after my heart. Now please be polite! No, just after your gear. :) -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:21:56 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Macalester College Music Department Subject: Re: sharks, hemiola, and form In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 17 Oct 1995 20:30:57 -0400" <951017203056_126427977@mail04.mail.aol.com> > No- in fact some sharks have been found in recent years sleeping, motionless, > on the sea floor. > > -Matt Brief clarification...since I do/did a lot of scuba and am familiar with this. Sharks must move or they die. They have to move water past their gills constantly to get O-two. If they do not, they starve for oxygen and suffocate. HOWEVER, they can shut down their metabolism in large degree when at a "cleaning station", a place where small cleaner fish congregate to scour their skin and also teeth, gums, eyes, etc. This is a coma-like state, not sleep, but somewhat similar. Like a deep lethargy. Unless you refer to some really new research, I believe this is what you write of. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Ed Forner Macalester College Music Department + + forner@macalstr.edu voice (612) 696-6189 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:29:05 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >But I also have the great advantage of rarely having deadlines to meet, and >of having very little time and no money. Makes it much easier. Really? I find that compositional deadlines really help me get music composed. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 14:26:08 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" Subject: Re: A rig to reckon with In-Reply-To: <951017182954_47052074@mail06.mail.aol.com> from "Amanda Pehlke, Cikira Studio MIDI Suite" at Oct 17, 95 06:29:55 pm > Hi, E-music 'ers, > Just for your amusement: here is Amanda's personal formula for keeping > musical creativity almost completely at bay: scroll if you dare through the > gear/software list that follows, bearing in mind that we are talikng > corner-of the-basement home studio here. [reams deleted] > > ...Wow, you read the whole thing. Man after my heart. Now please be polite! Ohmygod...I had no idea you were _that_ crazy! How could you ever afford it all? Or do you just subscribe to the Musicians In Debt Indefinitely concept? :-) And you don't even have a K2000 yet (or did I miss it?!?) -- _______ KB7PWD @ N7MRP.AZ.US.NOAM shawn.rutledge@asu.edu (_ | |_) html: http://enuxsa.eas.asu.edu/~rutledge/home.html __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * ham radio * virtual reality * eschew obfuscation * let freedom ring * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:28:44 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Prophecy: EMUSIC-L Digest - 12/13 Oct 1995 >I sometimes get the >impression that the programmability is put in there solely for the in-house >(and freelance) programmers! Absolutely. The major manufacturers understand this perfectly. For example, this is why the Wavestation SR has a front-panel programming interface at all. >Worse still, I seem to be one of the few >people who likes performance controls beyond velocity/after-touch and the >mod wheel - I use a foot pedal, breath controller, second mod wheel, etc, >all the time. ...and I use fader-boxes and MAX systems to do the same sort of thing. (Which reminds me: it's nearly November, right? You're all going to go out and buy the next Sound On Sound, right? Good.) Now, it *does* surprise me that synthesisers still provide good MIDI control points in the voice architecture; I see now evolutionary advantage to that. >But these days, with my sequencer on my computer, I don't >feel any real need for an arpeggiator oooOOOOOoooooh. Teleport to the thread about "fractal zoom" for a good reason. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 19:28:16 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Expolding into the fractal zoom >>Hmm. But then there's the MicroWave... > >Frac-tal ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!! Bar-steward... Long article coming up, on fractal zoom and parking cars. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 00:16:56 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Evan Jones Subject: job announce Comments: To: cstone@netcom.com, david@jaffe.com, edens@interval.com, fish@musclefish.com, furman@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, js%timbre.uucp@nbn.com, kathy@jaffe.com, mab@dolby.com, michael@mcnabb.com, muscom@mills.edu, raf@mercury.sfsu.edu, robert@rockmore.com, rww@sgi.com, scotgl@csuhayward.edu, STRANGE@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu, tildy@ella.mills.edu, timis@opcode.com, timper@holonet.net, wendt@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu ========================================= POSITION/RANK: Assistant Professor of Composition/Theory INSTITUTION: University of California Santa Cruz QUALIFICATION: Doctorate in composition or theory in hand by 6/30/96 DUTIES: Teach first- and second-year theory, literature, and musicianship. Other courses according to qualifications and curricular needs, e.g. beginning theory and eartraining, undergraduate and graduate composition, and a research seminar at the graduate level. (Applicants with a secondary expertise in computer-assisted composition/ analysis OR in the music of a non-western culture are particularly encouraged to apply.) SEND: 1. letter of application; 2. curriculum vita; 3. list of three references from whom the applicant has requested confidential letters of recommendation, 4. evaluations of teaching from former students, if possible. DEADLINE: December 8, 1995 postmark for all materials. CONTACT: Composer/Theorist Search Committee Music Department University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 VOICE: 408-459-2292 FAX: 408-459-3535 Write or FAX for complete information. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 19:16:17 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the crack opera > > >music is best at emphasizing psychological action as opposed to > > physical action. > > > > Even in contemporary dance? > >a slightly ambiguous question since you may be referring to >merce cunningham, mark morris or the latest in pop culture.... Deliberately ambiguous. Interesting that you should mention Mark Morris, who is best known for his skill at interpreting musical scores (at which he is very adept, although I don't particularly like his style of dance). >but the answer is still yes i believe, since modern dance is not so much >narrative (with some exceptions) but begins to emulate music in its >desire to unmask the psychological underpinning of action. Agreed, at least for for the best choreography and/or most imaginative choreographers (IMHO), who do not just pick music as something which accompanies (or conducts) the dance in an obvious manner. Cunningham is the obvious example of someone who does this well (though again, I have limited time for many of the resulting pieces, although it's my favourite of the various American schools). Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Spamboy Subject: Usedgear page I tried http://www.pitt.edu/~cjp/usedgear.html and got nothing. Has the usedgear page moved? Where? Are there other usedgear pages I could refer to? What are they? Thanks. By the way, if any of you are selling a Quadrasynth plus piano, that's what I'm looking for. Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu 8182 Glengarry Green *SPACE MONKEY ENTERPRISES * 714-522-BITE Buena Park, CA 90621 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * fax/modem:714-522-6323 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:25:10 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Marshal Tuttle's form theory In-Reply-To: from "roger king" at Oct 6, 95 12:30:00 pm Welly welly well, O my brothers. Look what I found on my old-mail heap! A couple of missed posts from the estimable Mildly-Amused Roger.... roger king writes-- > >Firstly, who on this list utilizes *TEMPLATES*? And, >how do you systematize their use? Have they been of >value to your overall work? I use templates for the raw technical basics of studio hookup, to easily start from a known set of controller/slave relationships and sync routings. If you are referring to MIDI channel templates and predetermined mixes, I have a few of those but they see less use. Maybe I'm inefficient but it seems that every piece I do bears no relation to the other ones I did lately. Whether or not this is good is another topic. >Secondly, what works better, *PATTERN* or *LINEAR* sequencing? Depends on how you think and how you were trained. I use linear sequencers because that's what Opcode sells and the differentiation isn't that important to me. If Vision 2.0 frustrates me any more I may switch to another OMS- savvy sequencer with a more pattern-based outlook. Logic? Cubase? *shrug* >Liquid takes the shape of its container. The canvas on which >the artist paints contains the entirety of the message. >Marshall Tuttle changed the way I think before I play the >first note! A marble statue cannot be chisseled until >the stone is chosen. Etc. very cool. This is an important thing to keep in mind, and it goes hand in hand with having a disciplined and focused approach to one's studio. You have to start clean, both in terms of your materials and your mental state, in order to work efficiently. You can get stuff done amidst clutter, but it's not as easy and rarely as worthwhile. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:32:17 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Hyperspace cubist 4D music In-Reply-To: from "roger king" at Oct 6, 95 01:05:00 pm roger king spoils his record for cogent discourse by typing-- > >There is a physics book out called "HYPERSPACE." Why are the physicists always the last ones to hear about this stuff? So who wrote it and what does it purport to prove and/or explain? >But what would hyperspace offer the composer? Does >Aerosmith sound the same in a wormhole? Yes. You don't notice local spacetime distortion in a wormhole; in that, at least, Kip Thorne and Albert Einstein are in agreement. And if you're outside the wormhole you can't hear what's inside it because you're in a vacuum and if you take off your helmet to listen there'd be no air to carry the sound and anyway you'd get a nosebleed and your eardrums would pop (so you wouldn't enjoy the sound much anyway, well, you wouldn't anyway if you're talking about Aerosmith) and you'd die of oxygen deprivation in a minute or two, the old wive's tale about exploding in vacuum being a myth. >What would cubist music sound like? Pablo Picasso's art >set to sound. Would his "blue period" works evoke >the musical question... Robert Johnson? :) Consider the aims of cubism. I would state that there are already a vast number of 'cubist' works out there...in fact one could state that the entire house/trance/jungle/techno/acid/blipcore movement is cubist. >Sometimes I over-humanize a sequence and come up with >Salvadore Dali: Melting clocks. :) I've discovered that not eating pizza before bedtime alleviates this. >A four dimensional instrument would be difficult to play, >according to the book, "Hyperspace." You'd blow into the >mouthpiece and the sound would come out through the >sustain petal. :) No it wouldn't, you'd blow into the mouthpiece and hear the note last week. >Is four dimensional consonant, tonal, diatonic music possible? Depends on how you define your four dimensions. I would argue that all music is four dimensional because it is perceived in space and evolves in time. So there. Nyah. Humorless as only a physicist can be, mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:37:21 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: computer composit In-Reply-To: <9510062247.0W0O000@torii.com> from "Marshall Tuttle" at Oct 6, 95 10:47:30 pm Marshall Tuttle writes-- > >if the listener attempts to assign meaning to a piece using the only tools >he knows how and fails, is it any wonder that much experimental music >evokes only rage and frustration? his time is being wasted. Heh. Most of the academics would argue that it's THEIR time being wasted on an inappropriate audience.... normally I wouldn't bring this up, but I just read an embarrassingly bad interview with Brian Eno. REQUEST Magazine had him spoken to by a kid whose musical tastes tended to devalue Eno's, who refused to value Eno's music by anything other than direct effect on the mass market ("He did a lot for U2, which was great, and he also did this thing called _Nerve Net_...."), and who was by his own admission exhausted and wasted from an all night rave, to which he gleefully returned after spending an hour showing the world what a backward and selfcontradictory jerk Eno was. I don't agree with everything Eno does or says and I don't like all or nearly all of his music, but I am a strong admirer of how he thinks, and this kid was too shallow to realize that he was being fed some really useful information about how his world worked. Bleah. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:03:54 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: <01HWJN9OIQ428ZE2AD@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU> from "John Krikawa" at Oct 17, 95 11:35:41 am John Krikawa writes-- > >metlay laments: >> [. . .] As I type this, my >>studio's audio wiring is totally scrambled: I bought a new patchbay >>recently and am still in the process of rewiring things to give myself >>room to grow. "Recently" meaning August. My power cabling has been a >>mess for at least that long, and the MIDI setup never really got back >>up and running properly after the BALLISTIC sessions in January. Aiieee. > >Of all things to mess up one's life...a patchbay! A piece of gear: just >plug it into the mixer and use a MIDI cable. A patchbay: 'pass the pipe >please, manana, manana' Ha. Harrumph. Once they're wired, they infinitely simplify things. I far prefer 'I need to route my Xpander directly through the SE50 instead of having it go through the effects sends/returns, plug plug plug plug okay we're ready to go' to 'I need to route my Xpander directly through the SE50 instead of having it go through the effects sends/returns, let's see now, that means we'll have to reach behind here in the rack and hunt for the SE50 cabling and disconnect it at the source, ah, there it is, unplug unplug unpl--oh, damn, that's not the SE50, plug plug, where IS it? AH, unplug unplug unplug unplug, now then, run the Xpander into it, taking it out of the mixer first, unplug unplug plug plug, now we reroute the signal back again, plug plug, why am I not hearing anything?' What little decent wiring experimentation I do in the studio is directly attributable to my having a patchbay, much in the same way that unlike almost every other MIDI device I ever bought, the Studio 5LX paid for itself instantly in totally overpowering control of all MIDI traffic in my rig. The trick is to stop adding stuff and to leave them the hell ALONE! >Simplicity has its allure. A couple of synths and a recording device (of >course you'll need to keep your fx boxes). . .burp. . It just occurred to >me that as soon as you introduce a computer (ok maybe a patchbay too) you >open up a much more complicated composing environment. I too remember using >a Portastudio four-track for several years. Dumping right to tape >made 'performance' a much more important issue, imbuing the CrO2 with a >heart-felt passage. No velocity-tweaks, phrase-cutting, controller painting, >none of it. When I listen to some of my older recordings done with a >breath controlled DX-100 and HR-16, there was a lot of feeling captured in >there that has eluded some more recent sequencer tidbits I had been working >on. Part of it maybe that damn temporal thing: most sequencers have >'measures' and 'ticks', I want chunks, and little-diddies. Precisely my problem. But I only ever attempted to rescue one song from a Fostex X-15 and digitally master it, and it nearly killed me...after enough time it gets very difficult to go back and work on a piece on a poor medium knowing that if yo make magic it'll be too grungy to release. >I seriously doubt I'll go sequencer-less, too much power is offered by the >data manipulation abilities, patch changing, effects modulation, etc. I'm >planning on adding a multitrack soon (only have 2trk cassette right now), >so it is my hopes that I can augment sequences with some free-form jam and >augment some free-form jamming with sequenced or apreggiated material. This is where I'm aimed. What I think I need to do, though, is to greatly simplify my sequencing rig. There's just too much going on. The one problem I have with OMS is that it is extremely difficult to create and enforce temporary strictures on one's work. If you have a huge studio and a bunch of multitmbral devices hooked up, you can't easily tell Vision, "I don't want to see every channel on every instrument; I want to see only three of them, and only one channel each." (and yes, this is a troll; I'd dearly love to figure out how to make Vision do what I want it to with Instruments Pages.) >>So my main question is, can I break through the conceptual wall of getting >>a sequencer to do music the way I see it in my head. >Probably. ;p I have my doubts about myself. I've been trying for a long time. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:09:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: THEREMIN In-Reply-To: from "roger king" at Oct 17, 95 01:53:00 pm roger king writes-- > >Are ondes musicales still being built? The ondes musicales, better known as the Ondes Martenot, is not being built by anyone I know of, but there are several working units still out there, one of which is owned by guitarist and experimental (at least occasionally) musician Ronnie Montrose. His excellently weird _Open Fire_ album featured a song called "Leo Rising," a guitar/ondes duet. There is a surprisingly large body of published work for the instrument; Ravel, and others, specifically wrote works featuring it as a soloist instrument. It controlled pitches by having the player slide his right hand up and down a metal-plate 'keyboard' while wearing a ring that dragged along a horizontal tape controlling a rheostat. It wasn't very nice looking, but in the days before the Prat-Read keyboard it worked quite well. >. Does the Theremax have a MIDI out? No. The MIDI output is what's making Big Briar's Theremin so costly. >The last EM article on the subject showed a picture of >Leon Theremin's grand daughter playing one. EM showed >a price of $1500. Is that still the going rate? The Big Briar ones are far costlier, the PAiA ones are dirt cheap. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 08:30:56 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Save our Shark In-Reply-To: <199510172241.HAA16340@soback.kornet.nm.kr> from "kirk gale" at Oct 18, 95 07:41:26 am kirk gale writes-- > >but didn't Roger also ask how much the music should be *slowed down* as if >he were going to timestretch a sample for the poor beast? > >now that's a calculation I wouldn't mind seeing our host Mike run for us, >seeing as he's offered and all! This is what gave me pause. it's obviously a silly idea, but I've heard far worse gaffes from my students. mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:53:43 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Crystal Subject: Finale Groups/Web sites? Can anyone give me information/addresses for discussion groups and/or WWW sites devoted to Finale? An internet search on "finale" proved fascinating but not helpful. . . . ***************** Jon Crystal University of Vermont 357 Waterman Burlington, VT 05405 email: jcrystal@moose.uvm.edu phone: 802 656-1163 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:50:57 CDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bob Crispen Subject: Re: sharks, hemiola, and form When you talk about musical form, you raise the one issue (apart from cowardice) that's been the biggest hindrance to me as a composer. And since so many folks, particularly emusic folks, seem to have decided that form is altogether optional and its lack can be compensated for by throwing in enough interesting stuff, I thought I'd mention a book that's now out in paperback that explains form and how one actually goes about writing serious music in the most down-to-earth, practical terms you can imagine. I'm referring to Arnold Schoenberg's book on musical composition whose title has just been driven out of my head by a bad cold and Benadryl, but which I'll come back here and fill in if one of you doesn't think of it first. The book I'm talking about is not his harmony book, but rather the book that talks about phrases and all those form thingies. Jeez, it's time for my nap. Anyway, I'm convinced that had I gone to music school, that's the stuff they would have wakened me up at midnight, dragged me down to the catacombs, and revealed to me by torchlight. Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen revbob@eight-ball.hv.boeing.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:38:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: Finale Groups/Web sites? In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:53:43 -0400" <199510191853.OAA511184@moose.uvm.edu> >Can anyone give me information/addresses for discussion groups and/or WWW >sites devoted to Finale? An internet search on "finale" proved fascinating >but not helpful. . . . There is a Finale mailing list that you can subscribe to by sending email to listserv@shsu.edu, with the line subscribe finale in the body of the message. I just signed up myself, about the same time as I signed up for emusic-l. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Nutter Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu College Technology Systems Manager BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP ACS/College of Fine Arts WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/ Indiana University of Pennsylvania G-4 Stright Hall, IUP Indiana, PA 15705 "My horoscope says today is a bad day to be superstitious." ============================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 07:47:39 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: from "clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU" at Oct 17, 95 02:34:44 pm It's interesting to note that my implication of a spilling coffee bug in a cup holder was interpreted by Clive as NOT spilling coffee when it heard ABBA. Hmmm. clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU writes-- > >[discussion on equipment input vs creative output] > >For me, this is a straightforward issue of simplicity vs functionality. I >have one synth, one computer and a 4-track (oh, and a guitar or two). When >this REALLY REALLY REALLY starts to limit me, I'll expand it, but it has to >be worth the effort. Any addition would have to meet a need, be affordable >in terms of time and money, and preferably have good resale value (I always >buy 2nd-hand). What you have described is a studio setup that is small enough to fit in your head. This is exactly what I'm referring to as being my problem: my rig is about as big, maybe a hair smaller, than it was a year ago, and my available headspace is shrinking. What's scary is that I can remember exactly when things got out of hand (eight years ago), and what's even more scary is that I've never managed to do anything about it other than complain about how few records I've gotten out. >Examples: I'm finding that patch editing on the synth is too time-consuming >so I'm attempting to write a patch editor. I wonder if you realize how howlingly funny this looks to a non-programmer, Clive ole pal? :) Ecce Oberheim, mike -- choose your friends carefully-- your enemies will choose themselves for you ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 17:23:59 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: axiom based 'form' model What do you guys think? Form, as an influencing force in the compositional process is both limiting and enabling. In other words, the assumed form biases the possible outcomes or resulting compositions created in compliance with the form. In mathematics, this can be described using the concepts of axiom and theorem. Axioms are statements which are universally accepted as true without further explanation. Theorems are consequences of the axioms which can be formally shown to exist if the axioms are true by deduction and induction. Usually, the set of axioms is rather small (like three or four) and the set of constructable theroems in infinite by building theorems on top of the implications of other theorems ultimately grounded in the set of axioms. The set of interesting theorems on the other hand is infinitely smaller than the total number of theorems. The classic example of an axiom-based theory is Euclidean geometry. Change the basic axioms and you enter the world of non-Euclidean geometry. You get the picture. Now back to music. The axioms would be some small unambiguous and non-redundant set of characteristics which are universally associated with a particular 'style' of music. Determining whether any given piece of music adheres to the style in question is as simple as evaluating it's compliance with all of the universal characteristics defining that style. A trivial example that comes to mind is 'waltz'. You could measure the 'proximity' of a 'piece' to a given 'style' by counting how many of the style's descriptor characteristics are violated and how many are adhered to in the piece. (I'm not talking whether the piece deserved to be composed. Like in math, The set of interesting compositions is probably infinitely smaller than the total number of compositions which can be described as belonging to a particular style.) Q: what are axiomatic-like constructs in music which unabigously differentiate styles? -rob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 15:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dave Rosborough Subject: How much should I charge? Hi there... I've just been asked to record (direct-to-hard disk) several songs for a CD-ROM, for educational use. The songs are fairly basic, and would involve sequencing the keyboard track, and recording a vocalist (not me). I will be using all my own equipment to do the recording. There is also the potential that I could write piano-only arrangements for the songs, and then record them. My question is, how much should I charge? I don't really have any experience in doing my own recordings (at least for money), although my studio is not badly set up. If you have any ideas, please respond via personal e-mail. Thanx! DaveR ________________________________________________ David Rosborough Web Author, Faculty of Education, SFU drosboro@sfu.ca http://www.educ.sfu.ca/people/DavidR/ ________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:52:06 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >>But I also have the great advantage of rarely having deadlines to meet, and >>of having very little time and no money. Makes it much easier. > >Really? I find that compositional deadlines really help me get music composed. > Deadlines help me get it done, they don't help me compose. Probably because I'm not very good at it, I find I slip into familiar and comfortable approaches just to get the piece out the door on time: I'm always dissatisfied with the results (insert "When is a piece finished?" thread here). This problem wouldn't arise if I had an UltraProteus, of course. And a Microwave. Plus a Lex. Better have a 5LX, too. And I'd need a decent Mackie.... Zooooooom Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:25:43 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: processing finale Comments: cc: synth-l@AMERICAN.EDU Does finale (coda's music notation software) require an fpu (math coprocessor)? Does it run more efficiently with one? My computer is running the program soooooo slowly that it makes it impossible to work. It was recently suggested to me that my lack of a fpu is the culprit. Coda has been remarkably unresponsive to my queries. Any answers you can offer would be much appreciated. Thanks. -Craig ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:32:50 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Usedgear page >I tried http://www.pitt.edu/~cjp/usedgear.html >and got nothing. Has the usedgear page moved? Where? Are there other >usedgear pages I could refer to? What are they? Thanks. > Yes, I think it has (SYNTH-L topic really I guess). There's now a list at: ftp://synthcom.com/pub/synth/docs/current_raw.txt Hope this helps Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:32:43 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom Mike wrote-- >It's interesting to note that my implication of a spilling coffee bug >in a cup holder was interpreted by Clive as NOT spilling coffee when >it heard ABBA. Hmmm. > Subtle Antipodean humour (for the oxymoronic). Why would you want to fix a bug that caused spilling on ABBA? (these double negatives are making my head hurt). > >>Examples: I'm finding that patch editing on the synth is too time-consuming >>so I'm attempting to write a patch editor. > >I wonder if you realize how howlingly funny this looks to a non-programmer, >Clive ole pal? :) > It looks hysterical from here Mike, believe me. I'm not a programmer: I'm desperate. (LFO speed 60, no I said 60 dammit, back, back OK. Where's the bend time? Here? no...no..ah, here. Good. Set to 17. OhMiGawd I've reprogrammed the VCR....) >Ecce Oberheim, > Ecce homo desperandum Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:36:05 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom John wrote-- When I listen to some of my older recordings done with a >breath controlled DX-100 and HR-16, there was a lot of feeling captured in >there that has eluded some more recent sequencer tidbits I had been working >on. Part of it maybe that damn temporal thing: most sequencers have >'measures' and 'ticks', I want chunks, and little-diddies. > True; sequencers do seem to force a certain way of working. but you can turn off clicks, measures etc etc. You loose some of the features of the sequencer of course, but for me it really frees up the way I work. More and more I find I use the sequencer as a sort of digital tape deck which I can hack around without ever having to worry about measures etc. Try comparing pieces written with and without metronomes etc; big difference in feel. And working without measures makes quantisation almost impossible (snigger snigger). Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:53:46 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: Marshal Tuttle's form theory Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Mike M. on this one: >You have to start clean, both in terms of your materials and your mental state, in order to work efficiently. You can get stuff done amidst clutter, but it's not as easy and rarely as worthwhile. > I think that's flat out wrong Mike. I think there are different ways of working for as many different artists as there are and have been. While there are many similarities in the ways that people work, there is also a great deal of disparity. For instance the painter Seurat, whose attention to minutiae helped to create a painstaking but breathtaking style, say maybe Webern had a similar outlook, at least in terms of restraint. Then there's old Ludwig van, who was basically a volcanic human trashcan. He never worked "clean" but the work was obviously worthwhile. I think great work is made however it is made, through a fog of madness or passion or ice-cold calculating clarity (Stravinsky?). That's one of the reasons we love it, 'cause it has the full range of human expressiveness available. Okay, I'm off the pulpit. Jeff Talman NYC-USA jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:20:07 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: sharks, hemiola, and form Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Bob "BBob" Crispen wrote: >Anyway, I'm convinced that had I gone to music school, that's the stuff they would have wakened me up at midnight, dragged me down to the catacombs, and revealed to me by torchlight. > I sort of felt like they just wakened me up at midnight and dragged me down to the catacombs (period). Actually I found one chapter of one book extremely helpful. The book is Ernst Toch's "The Shaping Forces of Music." It was available, probably still is, from Dover and it didn't cost much. The chapter is titled "Transitions." It gives the most succinct and usable info on the subject I've ever seen in print. It overlaps a bit w/ the Schoenberg that you mention, but the Toch is less abstract and presents very clear and detailed examples. I find some of the other chapters a bit dated, but "Transitions" is right on target. Jeff Talman NYC-USA jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:44:45 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tony Myatt Subject: Organised Sound Vol. 1 No. 2 Comments: To: icma@umich.edu, sonicart.demon.co.uk@sonicart.demon.co.uk, Music-Research@comlab.oxford.ac.uk, csound@noether.ex.ac.uk, pcsound@maths.bath.ac.uk, SOUND@acm.org, algo-comp@heinous.music.uiowa.edu, smallmusic@xcf.berkeley.edu, max@vm1.mcgill.ca, smt-list@husc.harvard.ed, daw-mac@netcom.com Comments: cc: os@cage.york.ac.uk Organised Sound An International Journal of Music and Technology CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS Volume 1, Number 2 Issue thematic title: THE TIME DOMAIN Date of Publication: August 1996 Publishers: Cambridge University Press Articles to be considered for publication in the above issue are now invited. THE TIME DOMAIN John Cage showed that the minimum requirement for musical composition is to define duration or to delineate a period of time. The responses of composers, performers and engineers to aspects of time are many and various. The application of computer-based systems has increased their scope by permitting precise explorations and investigations of time-based procedures. It could be said that the serial nature of computer technology has emphasised the linear nature of time, and simultaneously allowed us to destroy our traditional time-based perceptions of sound events. Recording and manipulating sound material permits electroacoustic composers to take sound material 'out of time', to implement time distortions and to re-present sound events; to be creative with our traditional perceptions of time. This theme will allow authors to discuss any aspect of time as it relates to their work. This could include papers relating to the processing of pre-recorded sound in the time domain, engineering approaches to the time domain, the perception of time, time domain representations and scores, sound recording/editing techniques or aspects of sound synthesis related to time. Authors might also consider wider ranging topics such as the derivation of musical form/structure, how composers allocate their time while composing (with or without technology), or any other topics which arise from considering sound and silence in the time domain. TIMETABLE FOR SUBMISSIONS Articles and other material for the editors' consideration should be submitted by: January 8th, 1996. If submitted in hard copy, three copies should be posted to: The Editors, Organised Sound, c/o Department of Music, University of York, Heslington, YORK YO1 5DD UK EMail submissions are encouraged, and should be mailed to: os@cage.york.ac.uk Full details of submission requirements can be requested from the Editors. GENERAL AIMS OF ORGANISED SOUND. This journal is intended for student, amateur and professional musicians, musicologists, engineers and members of the public interested in the application of computers to music. It features papers relating to any musical activity using computers, and any engineering activity that has a demonstrable musical aim. Other audio arts, such as multi-media works or sound sculptures are included. It also provides a focus for engineers who are involved in the development of musical tools. Approximately 60% of the article content for each issue will be related to a named theme. The editors have formulated the following broad aims: To provide a platform for musical and related technological discussion; To further the dialogue between engineers and musicians; To provide tutorial texts for students of computer music; To disseminate musical material through the production of a compact disk related to articles contained in the journal (one per annum); To encourage musical uses of multi-media; To encourage (young) specialists in the field to publish and share the results of their work. FUTURE ISSUES Volume 1, Number 3: ALGORITHMIC COMPOSITION Co-Editors: Ross Kirk, Leigh Landy, Tony Myatt, Richard Orton. Corresponding Editors: Lelio Camilleri, Daniel Oppenheim, Miller Puckette, Barry Truax, David Worrall International Advisory Board: Marc Battier, Francois Bayle, Peter Castine, Alcedo Coenen, Francis Dhomont, Simon Emmerson, Rajmil Fischman, Takayuki Rai, Jean-Claude Risset, Francis Rumsey, John Rimmer, Conrado Silva, Christiane Ten-Hoopen, Daniel Teruggi, Jukka Tiensuu, Trevor Wishart, Scott Wyatt, Iannis Xenakis. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 13:43:23 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Sluyter Subject: Re: THEREMIN In-Reply-To: On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, roger king wrote: > Are ondes musicales still being built? I don't know whether they're being built, but I did see a fellow in Amsterdam who plays one. (Unfortunately, the performance he gave was part of an "avante garde(?) piece, for dancers, trio, and solo violin, where he performed on a *most* interesting contemporary cousin of the glass harmonica.) I only know that he plays the ondes musicales from his promotional brochure (unfortunately, I've stored it in a city other than the one in which I presently reside--had I his name, I might be able to contact him.) > Orchestrally, the only problem > was with glissando. Clara Rockmore seemed to have overcome this "problem". I heard her play passages where the individual notes were played quite detached from one another (damn! What's the term? Not staccato, not stacatino, but, but...). I believe that it was her input that brought Theremin to address the "problem". But, what I'd *really* be interested in hearing is a recording of the cello-like instrument which Theremin developed. Does anyone out there recall its name and/or know of the existance of audio recordings of it? --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- email: bc492@scn.org telephone: (206)728-7145 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 00:19:12 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bruce Edwards Subject: fractal zip an interesting "fractal" component is that the pattern remains consistent no matter what the scale. One instrument or twenty will be too many or too few . . . an assumption that has a certain appeal is that most of the members of the this list will have a disposition to correlate our music/sound producing capabilities with the equipment, which in a slightly more perfect world, would be "transparent" transducers . . . (so what in the hell are you talking about?) Ignoring for a minute the "student prince (Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe)/magic instrument" syndrome (an ailment that tends to be terminal more among "lead" guitarists than other perversions); one (and only one) of the paths that has led to my technological spiral (I too buy stuff second hand when ever possible but the purchase price of the junk in my basement would pay off the mortgage) . . . I started on guitar, unamplified, wooden . . . after learning something of music, more of the sounds of the instrument(s), how they interacted with different 3-dimensional spaces (rooms, parks, halls caves etc.) I at some point began to record and within seconds learned that most terrible of all secrets: live music and recorded music are not the same beast (not even played through a $2000 microphone, $3000 mic-preamp, through tube compression onto 24 tracks of 2in. tape moving at 30in/sec) and have spent the ensuing years and lots of coin in the pursuit of two things (interestingly enough my mind tells me that simplicity is the ground beat for both): capturing the "live" sound on tape and creating soundscapes with the complex textures of "live" but which can no more exist in "real" acoustic space/time than Roger King's shark can sit across the table sharing a cup of coffee . . . (the second has always been slightly more successful than the first, partially because you learn early that some things are difficult to achieve and when you are on a budget and a schedule you tend to avoid those areas (default to the tools on which you can depend)). OK one story: A couple of weeks ago was recording a song -- very simple setup/arrangement -- vocals, two steel bodied resonator guitars. For percussion decided to use someone kicking the railing in the stairwell (very hard reflective surfaces in a 12 story building with a hollow railing) 1st step was to hang a mic in the stairwell patch a cue amp and stand the player out their with work boots and a short length of wood. 30 minutes later have two bored guitarists and no usable percussion on tape. Their were two big problems and a mass of little ones. At any usable volume the struck, hit, pounded, slapped, and/or kicked railing tended to overwhelm the tape. Even attempting to overdub percussion onto tape (which by this time he had heard many many times) it was very difficult for the kicker to get the accents to fall where I wanted them. So we sampled the damn thing (2 samples, one compressed and gated severely) (30-40 min); edited the samples (including a very "airy" stereo mix that when the trigger was activated at high velocity included a very short sharp metallic "attack" and when "eased" bypassed that attack) into 4 or 5 distinct sounds ranging from choked metal to bats in the cavern and mapped on zones of a keyboard (30-40 min.) The next day printed three versions of the song in 1/2 hr (though if the song is ever released will probably use a single narrow snare, 1 ride cymbal and old unlacquered kick drum for the percussion (with some the "cavern" swells drifting diagonally across the mix) . . . and the point is? . . . (there is never enough time to peak the learning curve on this shit . . . it appears that it will stay logarithymic (sic) into senility) computers/microprocessors belong to a class of tools, one of whose primary functions is to make other tools -- over the years the frustration that these things I buy will not do the one thing that was the reason I bought them in the first place is just barely mitigated by the rewards of the things they do that they do that would never have occurred to me to ask of a tool before . . . (even though I am sure that numerous sub-generations can be defined this frustration and "excitement" of discovery is still very much a first generation kind of thing; we don't really know what the tools can do) . . . One of the reasons I have the elaborate nest of boxes and cables cobbled together (something like 164 distinct audio patch bay nodes, two line mixers, one old audio mixer (still in service because: once was kicked by a horse and still works, very nasty on board reverb, a 12 in 4out bus that I have never completely decoded and separate inserts that can be used as another patch bay) is to make experimentation easier. So when some one says "Why don't we try this . . . ?" it becomes possible (after of course hitting them in the head with a shovel). I also have a "sub" (on its own power strip) loop to the "nest" that has just one triggering device, one tone generator, one sequencer (with the anadek pocket record as an available 2nd node). There is art and there is craft. While they may be intertwined they are not congruent. (While I tend not to function from rigid definitions of either, nor is defining "art" and/or "craft" one of my goals . . . they are not rails upon which my coach rolls but they do tend to indicate contours of terrain and suggest where passage might be difficult. I've been very pleased with the results of playing a Marine Band harmonica into a garbage can (nope did not sample it) with a lot of human body percussion as accompaniment. I was also quite happy after spending a couple of months arranging "Harlem Nocturne" for a small Junior High stage band and then helping them get the chance to record that and a couple of other tunes in a "real" studio. Making some music never has been and never will be, for me, dependent on specific tools . . . but my "setup", the basement studio, is going to get more complicated not less as the years go by . . . making specific types of music, specific types of sounds is dependent on the tools and the craft necessary to exercise them. (the above of course is my humble opinion & my big foot is out the window . . .) B. Edwards ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:19:39 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >The one problem I have with OMS is that it is extremely difficult >to create and enforce temporary strictures on one's work. If you have >a huge studio and a bunch of multitmbral devices hooked up, you can't >easily tell Vision, "I don't want to see every channel on every >instrument; I want to see only three of them, and only one channel >each." Oh, *I've* got that one cracked. Vision runs on my "satellite" computer, the PowerBook 100. This is connected via a single boring vanilla Apple MIDI interface into the Studio-4, which is being controlled by the "main" computer, the PowerBook 170, which runs MAX and/or OMS+patches to distribute Vision's channel data to the real instruments. It sounds complicated, but in practice it's a nice separation of concerns. Is this why I do it? Nope. I do it this way because the Studio-4 is totally broken when it comes to two-port operation. It just doesn't work. I'm waiting for some news about a fix from Opcode's UK dealer. I reported the problem early in 1994, and again in August '95. Are we having fun yet? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:45:07 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: from "clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU" at Oct 20, 95 09:52:06 am clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU writes-- >Deadlines help me get it done, they don't help me compose. This is a vital and worthwhile distinction! > Probably >because I'm not very good at it, I find I slip into familiar and >comfortable approaches just to get the piece out the door on time: I'm >always dissatisfied with the results (insert "When is a piece finished?" >thread here). oog, let's not. That one can go for MONTHS before it dies down...;) >This problem wouldn't arise if I had an UltraProteus, of course. And a >Microwave. Plus a Lex. Better have a 5LX, too. And I'd need a decent >Mackie.... Zooooooom Dear me, I think I've coined my second net.catchphrase of the year, the first being 'x0xbox' (to describe the ridiculously overpriced Roland pre-MIDI and early MIDI gear designated with numbers like 101, 202, 303, etc.). The sad thing is that while many readers will recognize 'fractal zoom' as the name of a song by Eno, the originator of the rest of the expression will never be properly credited unless I bring it to everyone's attention at least once. So bear with me.... The original phrase was to describe the acceleration of technology and power, which some sociologists believe is exponential; a friend of mine, a relativistic cosmologist (read, someone who is paid for foggy-minded theories about what reality is made of, which is nice work if you can get it, ask Roger Penrose or Stephen Hawking) named Paul Reilly, said, "Eventually a society's acceleration becomes asymptotic, and it explodes en masse into the black-hole foam." I substituted 'fractal zoom' for 'black-hole foam' because the emusic reference sounded better, and more people know what fractals are than know what black-hole foam is. (Please don't ask me; I barely understand the idea myself.) Anyway, just wanted to give credit where credit was due. mike -- "When archeologists find an artifact the function of which they have no clue about, they often nod sagely and claim it to be a religious object. MAX is to MIDIphiles what religion is to archaeologists, that is, the explanation of final resort." (brian good) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:47:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: from "clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU" at Oct 20, 95 11:32:43 am clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU writes-- >> >>>Examples: I'm finding that patch editing on the synth is too time-consuming >>>so I'm attempting to write a patch editor. >> >>I wonder if you realize how howlingly funny this looks to a non-programmer, >>Clive ole pal? :) >> >It looks hysterical from here Mike, believe me. I'm not a programmer: I'm >desperate. (LFO speed 60, no I said 60 dammit, back, back OK. Where's the >bend time? Here? no...no..ah, here. Good. Set to 17. OhMiGawd I've >reprogrammed the VCR....) I gues the practical thing to ask would be, 'Why don't you buy an editor that someone else wrote and debugged already?' Are funds that tight, are you running on a platform that no one supports any more, is the synth you're using unsupported...? If you don't code for fun, why are you not taking an easy route? mike -- "When archeologists find an artifact the function of which they have no clue about, they often nod sagely and claim it to be a religious object. MAX is to MIDIphiles what religion is to archaeologists, that is, the explanation of final resort." (brian good) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:11:21 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: arcana@CONTRIB.DE Subject: ARCANA URL HAS CHANGED (memo) Comments: To: stuermer@is.in-berlin.de Good day, Recently you may have encountered difficulties in accessing the "Artist Research, Composers' Aid & Network Access" server ARCANA. Due to technical changes at ARCANA's Internet provider the URL has changed. The new URL is now: ARCANA http://www.icf.de/Arcana/ Please make a note of this change. If you have already been informed about the move, please ignore this message. We'd appreciate if you like to include a link to ARCANA into your own www home page. Here is the Link: ARCANA - Artist Research, Composers' Aid & Network Access If you run a music related home page, too, please let us know and we gladly include a link to your site into our 'window to the world'. Also look for the "New Music Pavillion" ARCANA will be hosting during the 'First Internet World Fair 1996'. Details coming soon. Thank you for your attention. Regards, Wolfgang von Stuermer, composer, webmaster "Artist Research, Composers' Aid & Network Access" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:53:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom atomic speaks: >I substituted 'fractal zoom' for 'black-hole foam' because the emusic >reference sounded better, and more people know what fractals are than >know what black-hole foam is. (Please don't ask me; I barely >understand the idea myself.) Oh man, I MUCH prefer 'black-hole foam'! A perfect description, and now that you've exlained it (well, sort of) we can all consider ourselves educated on the matter and use the phrase with vindiction. ......hm, just noticed all my MIDI cables have been aligning themselves over the past week toward Amanda's basement.........interesting effect. foamin' -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:27:51 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joseph O'Sullivan Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom I think you may have coined a new expression along the order of stupendous, terrific, groovy, or bitchin'! If we can surmise that "black hole foam" is something which is vast, amorphic, primal, and entropic (vape?), then foamin' can be used to describe something which is large without dimensions, without a definitive or static form, elemental, and the product of an unrecoverable amount of time and energy. As a verb, it can be used as a decription of such an action. To say that we are "zooming" in our studios can be said without question, but the ambiguity of the term leaves one to question if this is not a desired or desirable outcome (the physical sensation implied by "zooming" could be equated, in some cases, by that expression form past decades, to "getting a rush" through the act of making music). On the other hand, to "foam" can evoke a sense of shapelessness, or, on the other hand, a case of rabies. In this case, I would say that I have been foamin'. Foamin' Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:45:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: processing finale In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Thu, 19 Oct 1995 16:25:43 -0700" >Does finale (coda's music notation software) require an fpu (math >coprocessor)? Does it run more efficiently with one? My computer is >running the program soooooo slowly that it makes it impossible to work. It >was recently suggested to me that my lack of a fpu is the culprit. Coda >has been remarkably unresponsive to my queries. Any answers you can offer >would be much appreciated. Thanks. -Craig I am presently using FinMac 3.2.1 on a PowerBook 280c with no FPU, and it runs well enough. It's noticeably faster than was FinMac 2.6.3 on my old system. Then again, my old system was a Mac SE... :) Why don't you tell us more about your system? Maybe we could come up with something. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Nutter Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu College Technology Systems Manager BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP ACS/College of Fine Arts WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/ Indiana University of Pennsylvania G-4 Stright Hall, IUP Indiana, PA 15705 "My horoscope says today is a bad day to be superstitious." ============================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 13:02:23 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk." Organization: Main Library of University Subject: Re: Finale Groups/Web sites? Comments: To: EMUSIC-L%AMERICAN.EDU@plearn.edu.pl The address for the LISTSERV of Finale discussion group is: Finale@shsu.edu you have to write e-mail to the address: LISTSERV@shsu.edu and type in the contents the words: SUBSCRIBE FINALE Barbara Zakrzewska-Nikiporczyk Basia@bu-uam.amu.edu.pl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 17:57:06 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: PATRICK GROSS - HKIS Subject: Re: Finale Groups/Web sites? >From: SMTP%"EMUSIC-L@american.edu" >Subj: Finale Groups/Web sites? > >Can anyone give me information/addresses for discussion groups and/or WWW >sites devoted to Finale? An internet search on "finale" proved fascinating >but not helpful. . . . > Yes! I just subscribedd two days ago and it is a FANTASTICALLY helpful list. E-mail to listserv@shsu.edu with the message subscribe finale firstname lastname. Enjoy. Patrick Gross Hong Kong International School MS Music ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:53:24 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uri Bruck Subject: e-mail address of music related companies I see requests for e-mail addresses on the list all the time. Thereis a web page at http://www.midifarm.com/directory.htm . Also other information about commercial companies at http://www.midifarm.com/ From LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU Tue Jan 16 15:07:20 1996 Received: from atlanta.american.edu (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA09232 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 15:07:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA97159 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:08:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601161908.OAA97159@atlanta.american.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:08:44 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b)" Subject: File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9510D" To: Joe McMahon Status: O ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:34:32 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: On clutter Comments: To: jetman@tunanet.com In-Reply-To: <4093964286.109460047@tunanet.com> from "jetman" at Oct 20, 95 00:53:46 am jetman writes-- > >Mike M. on this one: > >>You have to start clean, both in terms of your materials and your mental >state, in order to work efficiently. You can get stuff done amidst >clutter, but it's not as easy and rarely as worthwhile. >> > >I think that's flat out wrong Mike. I think there are different ways of >working for as many different artists as there are and have been. While there >are many similarities in the ways that people work, there is also a great >deal of disparity. For instance the painter Seurat, whose attention to >minutiae helped to create a painstaking but breathtaking style, say maybe >Webern had a similar outlook, at least in terms of restraint. Then there's >old Ludwig van, who was basically a volcanic human trashcan. He never worked >"clean" but the work was obviously worthwhile. I think great work is made >however it is made, through a fog of madness or passion or ice-cold >calculating clarity (Stravinsky?). That's one of the reasons we love it, >'cause it has the full range of human expressiveness available. I think you missed my point. I'm not talking about a clean mental state or a lack of clutter in terms of sanity or emotion; I'm talking about the clutter that surrounds and intrudes upon the creative process. In my experience, and from my limited readings on the history of art and music (my specialties were China, Japan, and the Soviet Union), a great number of potentially brilliant creative minds were, and still are, constantly and annoyingly short-circuited and frustrated by the circumstances under which they attempt to create. I won't deny that for some very driven individuals, the outside world can be totally shut off as the creative process take hold (everyone remembers the famous story about Picasso and the catfight, right?), but I would be willing to bet that for most folks, the process of creating art starts with clearing off the desk, both mentally and physically. Thoreau made a fetish of this in _Walden_, which of course couldn't have been written in downtown Boston, but there are many other examples. To drag this thread kicking and screaming back to electronic music, let me touch on a few emusicians that I know of. Kitaro hates large cities; he alternates between a studio on the slopes of Mount Fuji and a summer home in Boulder, Colorado. Steve Roach lives in the midst of the desert in either Arizona or New Mexico. Kit Watkins lives in semiseclusion in the Virginia hills. Even artists who choose to live amidst the bustle of cities (Brian Eno, Paul Haslinger, Christoph Franke) have studio environments in which the outside world can be held at bay so the mind can focus on the creative process. And to drag the now torn and bleeding thread back to where it started, I argue strongly that a pile of mismatched and ill-connected gear that is difficult to initialize, set up, and use to make music is the worst kind of clutter, because the studio, supposedly a refuge from the craziness of the outside world, is now invaded by distractions one cannot avoid and indeed is expected to somehow 'enjoy' dealing with. >Okay, I'm off the pulpit. As am I. If this doesn't sit well with you, I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree. mike -- "When archeologists find an artifact the function of which they have no clue about, they often nod sagely and claim it to be a religious object. MAX is to MIDIphiles what religion is to archaeologists, that is, the explanation of final resort." (brian good) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 20:45:33 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >I find I slip into familiar and >comfortable approaches just to get the piece out the door on time: I'm >always dissatisfied with the results (insert "When is a piece finished?" >thread here). The piece I am *most* satisfied with, by far, is a commission I was given with a very tight deadline. But then, there were other circumstances: I was working with a good (and ver demanding) choreographer, a professional and easy-going dancer, and was required to score to a video of a dance rehearsal for what was already (dance-wise) a finished piece, so there was a very good focus and structure there: before I made any sound at all I had to draw up a tempo map for the entire piece by watching the movement as the sequencer was locked to SMTPE. My main focussing problem at present is nonfunctional gear. Right now, problems with the Studio 4 mean that there's no way I can get SMPTE to my sequencer, and it would only crash if managed it anyway due to other software problems. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 11:50:10 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: On clutter Comments: To: homer!netcom.com!atomic@AMERICAN.EDU Mike Metlay wrote: >>You have to start clean, both in terms of your materials and your mental >state, . . . Then later he wrote: >>I think you missed my point. I'm not talking about a clean mental state, . . . > Huh? >I argue strongly that a pile of mismatched and ill-connected gear that is difficult to initialize, set up, and use to make music is the worst kind of clutter, . . . > No argument here. The solution is acquiring the best possible studio set-up for your needs. If you can't afford it you'll find a way to work with some degree of clutter - Europeans found the new world in a wooden boat. Then again I guess there's detracting clutter and there's enhancing clutter. As I'm writing this I'm surounded by hardware. I think e-music is a sort of clutter inducing art anyway, like painting or sculpture. I mean at least in terms of most other musicians, we _have_ to have a lot of stuff around us to work. Jeff Talman NYC-USA jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:20:00 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chuck Scholtz Subject: Any techs out there to build me a cheap 1-5 mHz test signal generator? I will pay anyone out there who is wiling to breadboard me a cheap signal generator that will put out 5Vpp in the 1-5mHz range. No real frequency precision (within 500 Hz) is necessary. I would like it to operate off of 12VDC. If you can do this in a reasonable amount of time, please let me know. Give me an idea how much $$$ you need. Please respond via email, thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:02:08 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ronnie Cristobal Subject: Music for sale I am selling a EMU ESI-32 SCSI sampler, bundled with Cakewalk Pro 3.0 for Windows and Sound Forge 3.0 sample editor. All three months old, all with manuals, and still under warranty. I will consider offers above $1100. I live in the Bay Area. Ron