=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:38:56 +0100
Reply-To:     dmantripp@esys1.esys.co.uk
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <dmantripp@esys1>
From:         David Mantripp <dmantripp@ESYS1.ESYS.CO.UK>
Organization: ESYS Limited
Subject:      DK Synergy

Hi -

I have the opportunity to acquire a Synergy for around $450 - I'm
tempted, but is it worth it ?  Would I not be better off with a DX-7
or a Kawai K-5 ?  Any opinions welcome!

David Mantripp
------------------------------------------------------
David Mantripp           Guildford, UK
email: drm@esys.co.uk (work) drm@atlas.co.uk (home)
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 04:52:44 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James Snipes <JJJJJJJ@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fatar keyboard info needed

I Have used a studio 90, and i feel it is one of the best keyboards as far as
feel, out on the market for the cost and weight! They are Great!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:40:04 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Bj=F8rn_A._Lynne=22?=" <bjorn@TEAM17.COM>
Subject:      CakeWalk v4.00 - what happened to CAL ?

Just for a change, here's a message actually concerning E-Music:

I've downloaded the demo version of CakeWalk Pro Audio v4.00 from the
unofficial CakeWalk home page, and it looks very good. One question though:
Whatever happened to CAL (Cakewalk Application Language)?! In this new
version, there's no sign of it on the menues, and no mention of it in the
documentation.

Anyone?


Bjorn Lynne - Music and Audio, Team17 Software
- http://www.team17.com/~bjorn

  - ProgNetik Magazine, home of ProgRock/ArtRock/SymphoRock
    - http://www.team17.com/~bjorn/prog
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 17:46:03 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" <harnden@PHYSICS.AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      black noise, enoise, ...

1) black noise is not something i think has been quantified
(although it was the name of the great first album by FM. nothing
sounds as sweet as an elka string synth with a good deep phase
shifter). there is, however, brown noise. (for those of you
already well familiar with the uses of specific probability
generators in electronic composition, please feel free to skip
this bit.) white noise is called "f noise", because its power
spectrum is flat, whereas the power spectrum of pink noise is
1/f... the energy of the octave bands drops at 3db/8ve. brown
noise is 1/f^2 noise. what this means to you, the wandering
e-bard, ever in search of nifty new control structures, is that
regular instantaneous samples (measurements of the amplitude of
the signal at some moment in time) of white noise will provide no
expectation of what the next sample will be. pink noise has
serial statistical correlation... there is some weighted,
nonuniform probability of what the next sample value will be,
based on what the last string of samples was. brown noise is even
more predictable. it is more likely that the next sample will not
be far different from the last one. in music, one of the elements
of composition is that of surprise vs. expectation. certain
musical phrases, for instance, have been put forward as having a
kind of 'inevitability'... beethoven's fifth being the obvious,
or at least most often cited, example. whether, esthetically or
musicologically, it really is inevitable is beside the point...
it's that balance between expectation and realization that is
felt by a familiarized listener that counts. it turns out that a
rough statistical analysis of the changing of notes in the
ensemble of western classical music reveals a pinkish power
spectrum... that is to say that the likelihood of a certain note
appearing after a given string of notes within a constrained
sample space (like staying in the same key) is about that of a
new sample of pink noise having a given value, based on the
values of previous samples. we like our music to have some
surprise, but not too much. i would offer a purely personal
opinion at this point, and suggest that this might have something
to do with the continued popularity of certain forms, and the
general distaste for overtly wild 20th century composition as
well as strict minimalism. not a point i'm willing to belabor,
but just a thought. anyway, it's reasonably straightforward to
write a "pink tunes" generator, that produces random numbers with
a pink probability distribution, that can be mapped to usable
parameter spaces, like note numbers. i'm pretty sure it's at the
heart of some of the shareware algorithmic composition tools. i
wrote my own.
2) listen to eno's piano style on the tune "2HB" on roxy music's
first album. then listen to the piano on the first cut on the
first cluster & eno collaboration (before "after the heat"). same
thing.
3) ObEmHaiku:
      TX Sysex screwed
      Parametric codes are right
      Why is there no change?

P.S.) although the past few days have definitely been among our
worst, i want to congratulate the group on essentially having
sorted itself out. people just got tired of the lashings. i'm
sorry we lost a few in the process, but am glad that we seem to
be reasonably robust. cheers.


<--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side --->
  Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746

=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:28:11 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James McCartney <james@ASTRO.AS.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events

>From:    Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
>Subject: Late-breaking events
>In words of one syllable. If your opinion does not address a musical topic
>IT SHOULD NOT BE ON HERE.
>
>I really don't want to have to start ejecting poeple. Really I don't.
>Use private email, or suffer in silence.
>
> --- Joe M.
>

I disagree with you. At that point you will be playing god with people's
freedom of speech rights. Art is not produced in a vacuum and when meta
issues such as this arise I think it is important to let them run their
course. I do not want to see the day again when artists are only allowed
to produce 'pretty' art for the powerful while the rest of us 'suffer in
silence'. The decision to talk about e-music while ignoring the context
is itself a political decision and statement. A statement which says to
me that we don't care about values, only technique.


   --- james mccartney     james@astro.as.utexas.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:58:08 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <199510311336.IAA13116@clark.net> from "Joe McMahon" at Oct 31,
              95 08:36:31 am

Joe McMahon, my longsuffering fellow listowner, writes--
>
>1) I'm not happy with the way things have been going here lately.
>   I log on and all of a sudden there's a firestorm of political posts,
>   people sniping at each other's esthetics, and generally a lot of
>   backbiting and nastiness.
>2) There have been a number of people who have been exemplary in their
>   restraint; however, the responses have been going to the list and
>   NOT to the originator.
>
>Let's make this clear: I fully support the right of anyone on this list
>to have any political opinion they choose. I do NOT, however, want to see
>them on the list. At all.
>
>Participating in this forum is not a free-speech right. It is a PRIVILEGE
>open to anyone who is willing to not make me do a lot of extra typing.
>(Making me do a lot of extra typing makes my CTS kick up and then I get
>*testy*.)
>
>In words of one syllable. If your opinion does not address a musical topic
>IT SHOULD NOT BE ON HERE.
>
>I really don't want to have to start ejecting poeple. Really I don't.
>Use private email, or suffer in silence.

What he said. Dammit, I picked a lousy time to get bronchitis and go
offline for a week, or I would have put paid to this days ago.

I'm incredibly disappointed in the sudden and dramatic plunge in
courtesy and ethical conduct engendered by this whole thread. Is
it going to be necessary for the moderators to ban all job offers
for potential emusicians simply because of the current politics of
the job market and the emotions attached to it? I should hope not.

Think before you post, PLEASE. We're trying to create and maintain a
hate-free forum for the discussion of electronic music, and these
escalating debates are giving us ulcers trying to keep them down.
Every restraint we pass makes the environment more draconian and
restricted, and increases the percentage of readers who view our
intervention with resentment. Going to full-moderated feed is NOT an
option here; we haven't the time nor the patience. We're relying on
y'all to practice some self-policing here and show the rest of the
emusic Internet that we can and do conduct our affairs in a mature
manner. When the flamewidth of EMUSIC-L rises above tht of Analogue
Heaven, whose amazing esprit de corps does little to halt personal
vendettas and casual insult-hurling, I have real cause for alarm.

mike
--
mike metlay * atomic city | PSYCH 303: _THE PSYCHOLOGY OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC_
    atomic@netcom.com     | Pop Quiz #1-- Evaluate your emotional/rational
cd mailorder po box 81175 | response to the following statement, in detail:
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "If you can't get a rich analogue sound out of a
or call 1-800-548-6724 or | DX7 then I suggest you give up synthesis and try
http://pd.net/atomic-city | something easier. Such as basket weaving. :-)"
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:11:13 EST
Reply-To:     STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     CAKEWALK: MISSING CAL
From:         JOEL STERN <STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject:      CAKEWALK: MISSING CAL

          Bjorn says:
          >Whatever happened to CAL (Cakewalk Application Language)?! In th
          >version, there's no sign of it on the menues, and no mention of
          CAL  has apparently been witheld from  the  current version, with
          the promise to bring it back in the next; ETA 1/96. Also missing,
          hopefully  temporarily,   are   most   of   the   external   sync
          capabilities. The event filter has  been mangled, too. Otherwise,
          v  4.0 looks pretty good. If their record is anything to  go  by,
          Cakewalk will get it right before too long.

          Joel Stern
          stern@email.loc.gov
          j.stern11@genie.geis.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:52:01 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: cubist music, etc.

>i honestly believe that
>seriously attempting to come to grips with the thinking and
>feeling behind (and in front of... that is, in you while you
>stand looking at it) non-aural art is a powerful and worthwhile
>exercise for we who have as yet so little to offer in the way of
>artistic substance.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

This is the reason I work in dance. (Well, one of the reasons.) It's also
the reason I lean towards the postmodern, "installation" style of dance
rather than the more usual, balletic or dance-theatre styles, for which I
find I have little patience.

   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 20:32:21 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Clay Greenberg <GREENBERGCH@INTERLOCHEN.K12.MI.US>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <v01530501acbd091ae5cd@[128.83.251.77]>

        You rob music of 99 percent of its value if it is taken out
the context of life.  If you talk about love, you speak of music.
If you talk about hatred, you speak of music.  If you talk about
the supermarket, you speak of music.  If electronic music is ever
to be taken seriously as anything but the cheesy background for pop
songs, we must begin to treat it that way.  Music is an expression
of experiences.
        I have often been turned off by the nastiness of people on the
internet and this simply should not be tolerated.  However,
political opinions or any others, for that matter, pertain directly
to music.
        How is music to fulfill its purpose and how is it to be
anything but easy-listening crap if we restrict it to a technical
world of irrelevance.  In other words, get your priorities in
order.  Is this a music discussion group or an equipment discussion
group.  There is an unequivocally higher importance in music
(electronic or not-don't give me any of that bull) than what SCSI
 hard drive is compatible with what computer program.  I really
enjoy this list, including the politics, from a musical
perspective.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:27:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Harold C Cowherd <cowherdh@PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: black noise, enoise, ...

Eric,

    Enjoyed your comments on enoise, though I must admit that I had never heard
of brown noise...maybe someday I'll do a piece exploring noise.

Alas, I too can haiku:

                            enoise

                    Why did we talk race?
        SOUNDS...white noise, pink noise, brown noise;
                        Emusic is cool!

                                definitely not by Basho


Harold C.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:56:25 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Torija Miguel Eduardo <etori@CEN.BUAP.MX>
Subject:      sent information about music technology

        I need information about music technology.

        I saw you publicity in yellow pages and i need this information.

        I hope your answer, is most important for me the music
composition .

        Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:27:38 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff <pschoenh@PEN.K12.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <E152ZVZZMLDAY*/R=ICA001/R=A1/U=GREENBERGCH/@MHS>; from "Clay
              Greenberg" at Nov 1, 95 8:32 pm

        Please, PLEASE let us get back to E-music, folks.  To those
of you who feel that your freedom of speech is being violated: -
this does not apply to private establishments.  I do not have the right to
protest in your home for example.  Nor do I have the right to post a
sign the window of a private business.  The list is moderated, and it
is moderated well.  (Better than most I've seen.)  Electronic free speech
is for private mail, just like other free speech is for your private
property, or at least a publicly owned place.
        And no - a listserv is NOT public property.

To those who think that political talk encourages your musical creativity.
Do the talk elsewhere, please, because it stifles creativity for others.

        Again, please.
                                Thank you!

--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:54:40 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Hi there
Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu

Hello emusic and synth subscribers,
the Antipodean, Pool Lifeguarding, Laban-based motion tracking system
designer, traditional Ghanaian drumming, sometime recording engineer
and amateur philosopher here.  I'M BACK!

Looking forward to some lively discussions.  Can't say I missed you all
too much becasue I was very busy, but I'm glad to be here now.  I suppose
you've heard about ICMC and ISEA by now, but if there are any threads
about these still going, I'd be very grateful if some of you forwarded
some of the messages to me so I can see how it's going. Ohterwise, I'll
just sit back and put in my my $0.10 worth (inflation or just me being
opinionated!).

Thanks,
David Rodger             | FAX: +61-3-9479-3651 (mark "ATT: David Rodger")
Music Department         | E-mail: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
School of Art and Media  |   "I'm concerned about reproduction above 20Khz
La Trobe University      | because I want to make sure I'm not depriving
Bundoora VIC 3083        | my dog of a complete listening experience when
Australia                | leave the stereo on...."         -- Matt Barstow
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 01:15:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Rik Kwan.  Hello- I'm a beginning MIDI/electronic"
              <RikKwan@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fatar keyboard info needed

I use a Studio 610, and I love it as well, even though I'm only starting out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 02:05:24 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James McCartney <james@ASTRO.AS.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events

>To those who think that political talk encourages your musical creativity.
>Do the talk elsewhere, please, because it stifles creativity for others.

All talk is political. The decision about what to talk about and what not
to talk about is a political decision. If this list decides that the context
within which e-music exists is not to be spoken of, then I think that
pretty much removes the soul and reason for it to exist in the first place.

   --- james mccartney     james@astro.as.utexas.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 03:52:37 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         john rossi <jrossi@BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <199511020227.VAA149357@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>

On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Peter K Schoenhoff wrote:

>         Please, PLEASE let us get back to E-music, folks.  To those
> of you who feel that your freedom of speech is being violated: -
> this does not apply to private establishments.  I do not have the right to
> protest in your home for example.  Nor do I have the right to post a
> sign the window of a private business.  The list is moderated, and it
> is moderated well.  (Better than most I've seen.)  Electronic free speech
> is for private mail, just like other free speech is for your private
> property, or at least a publicly owned place.

This is true, but....

>         And no - a listserv is NOT public property.
>

I think that this is a semantic matter.  A listserv IS public property if
the software fees are paid out of public funds.  For example, I own a
list called NBTOX-L, this LISTSERV software was paid for by the Navy.  In
my opinion, my listserv IS public property because the public paid for
it.  If Microsoft, for example, was pay for a list, then it is definately
private sector and they should be able to make any demands they want.
Now, even in a public list, the moderators can choose to actively censor
the list.  In this case, the list owners choose not to do this.  I
believe that as a public co-owner, I should have freedom of speech rights
on this list if it is supported by public funds... Joe????

In a weird way, this is another example of the inability of people to
distinguish what is theirs, and what is the public's.  Unfortunately, if
my guess is correct as to where the funds for this list come from (If I'm
wrong, Joe, I appologize up front), the moderators are choosing to
conviently excuse their non-moderation of this list by requiring
self-censorship, with no real public mandate to do so.  To be a listowner
of a pubically funded list, in my opinion (and God knows, it is far from
humble), and to require self-censorship, is a repulsive display of an
inability to accept consequences of their actions.

BTW, this is one of the main reasons why I choose to endorse Libertarian
concepts.  If nothing is really owned by the public, the public has no
choice in the matter.  You guys can't have it both ways, you either
believe that this list is governed by the people who subscribe to it
(i.e., those who pay for it), or by you as dictators who are able to use
your 'net-powers' for your own agenda (even though it may not be
political). There is an alternative... Active Moderation.

Listen guys, if you really believe what you are saying, get off your
butts and stop being lazy.  Otherwise, let it go on its own.  I think you
will find that this isn't r.m.s. and that you are not going to see a
slugfest.  I'm sure that both of you sometimes feel compromised by being
affiliated with me, but this spinlessness you are now exhibiting is
embarassing me.  As far as I can tell, more people were in favor of
letting the political discussion continue (fuck e-music for the minute
joe, there hasn't been an interesting e-music discussion on this list for
quite some time) then were against it.  Could the fact that both of you
are white is influencing your decisions.

BTW, I don't moderate my list, at all.  It gets by.  People get downright
disgusting sometimes.  Other people tell them to fuck off.  Most of my
list members are Ph.D. scientists and graduate students.  Make from that,
what you will.

John 3
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 04:02:44 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         john rossi <jrossi@BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hi there
In-Reply-To:  <01HX64LHRKMA9GVOV5@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, David Rodger wrote:

>
> Looking forward to some lively discussions.

No, you won't find any lively discussions on this list unless you
consider a lively discussion to consist of some discussion of where,
exactly, you stop being a neo-berlinian and like the artist previously
known as Prince.  The moderators of this list insist on quelling lively
discussion, totally ignoring the consequences of their actions.  If you
want lively discussion I suggest you tune in to alt.rec.basketweaving.
Actually, that list could not be as boring as this one has been in for
the last 6 months.  You might as well go back to r.m.m.s. because nobody
there assumes that they are the prophets of the electronic music
generation and that they know what is best for the people who subscribe
to their lists.

John 3
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 04:14:52 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         john rossi <jrossi@BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <v01530500acbdd60381fa@[128.83.251.31]>

On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, James McCartney wrote:

> >To those who think that political talk encourages your musical creativity.
> >Do the talk elsewhere, please, because it stifles creativity for others.
>
> All talk is political. The decision about what to talk about and what not
> to talk about is a political decision. If this list decides that the context
> within which e-music exists is not to be spoken of, then I think that
> pretty much removes the soul and reason for it to exist in the first place.
>
>    --- james mccartney     james@astro.as.utexas.edu

I agree entirely with this statement.  I personally believe that it is
the moderators' intention to express the fact that superficially they
are  politically correct.  They are bogus....


Mike, please remove me from the team.  If Team_Metlay affiliation means
that I have to succumb to your and Joe's political inability to control
this list, I hereby renounce affiliation.  This is bullshit.  I've got
better things to do with my time than to worry about your face keeping.

With deepest sympathys,
John (ex 3)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 12:17:04 +0100
Reply-To:     dmantripp@esys1.esys.co.uk
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <dmantripp@esys1>
From:         David Mantripp <dmantripp@ESYS1.ESYS.CO.UK>
Organization: ESYS Limited
Subject:      Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 1 Nov 1995 to 2 Nov 1995

> I disagree with you. At that point you will be playing god with people's
> freedom of speech rights. Art is not produced in a vacuum and when meta
> issues such as this arise I think it is important to let them run their
> course. I do not want to see the day again when artists are only allowed
> to produce 'pretty' art for the powerful while the rest of us 'suffer in
> silence'. The decision to talk about e-music while ignoring the context
> is itself a political decision and statement. A statement which says to
> me that we don't care about values, only technique.

I thoroughly agree with this point.  I am currently suffering from a
complete writer's block, not because I can't write anything, but
because I can't find any motivation.  I have produced just one 7
minute composition over the last 15 months, largely inspired by the
acquisition of an EMS Polysynthi, and that is it.  Ok, I have been
constrained by a lot of equipment & computer breakdowns, and recently
my energies have been focussed on getting my new PowerMac 7200 to
bloody work, but if there's a will there's a way, and I'm lacking the
will.

I got accidentally switched back on to this list by Joe, and decided
to stay on for a while.  Since I last participated, 3 or 4 years ago,
I have helped set up a commercial e-music label, of which I'm a
director, and listened to a LOT of e-music.  I also listen to a good
deal of pop/rock, and I find that e-music in general compares very
badly.  It is almost all superficial and bland, either cutesy pie
sweet or "dark", but either way lacking in something.  I still
believe that there is enormous potential for expression in e-music,
but at the moment we're just not getting there.

Art should reflect life - if it does not, it is meaningless and will
wither on the vine.  So much e-music is produced by people, like
myself, who are too old to be in a rock band, male, into electronic
gadgetry (hell, I've got a Newton! :-) ) and have enough spare money
to buy synths.  That in itself is not enough, no more than painting
by numbers equates to Kandinsky.  E-music is of necessity to some
extent abstract, but abstract does _not_ mean devoid of content.
Picasso is (ok, arguably) abstract, but "Guernica" sure as hell is
not meaningless.  Same goes for Rothko, perhaps more so.

Therefore I am very pleased to see discussion of the "environmental
issues" and social context on this list. It could do us all a great
deal of good.  Art (like debate) is _NOT_ there to provide pleasure,
it is there to stimulate.  Of course some stimulation is pleasurable,
but that is secondary.

One caveat though - swearing, obscenity and profanity has no
constructive worth. It upsets many people (though it doesn't bother
me too much) and obscures points which may be very valid.  It does us
all a disservice, and I do not want messages displayed on my screen
which contain repeated uppercase obscenities. At least *^&^$stlg
asterisk them out!! :-)

Cheers

David Mantripp

ps - surely black noise is nil dB in all frequencies ? Or have I
missed something ?
------------------------------------------------------
David Mantripp           Guildford, UK
email: drm@esys.co.uk (work) drm@atlas.co.uk (home)
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:10:09 EST
Reply-To:     STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     RE: LATE BREAKING EVENTS
From:         JOEL STERN <STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject:      Re: LATE BREAKING EVENTS

          I  hope you have all noticed that I've been very good and held my
          peace  on  this thread, despite having rather strong personal and
          professional concerns in this area. mike said:

          >Think before you post, PLEASE. We're trying to create and mainta
          >hate-free forum for the discussion of electronic music, and thes
          >escalating debates are giving us ulcers trying to keep them down

          Sign of  the times, I'm afraid, mike. We WOULD have  to  be  born
          into  an  age  of social/cultural decline  and  escalating  civil
          unrest...

          Joel Stern
          stern@email.loc.gov
          j.stern11@genie.geis.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:19:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>
Subject:      Cosmic Changes

Fellow minstrels,

I have a theory.

Having made the observation that this is not the only discussion list where
recently there can be found such phenomena as lengthy boring debates,
irrelevant discussions, racial remarks, moderators squirming in their
seats, subsribers unsubsribing, chaos ruling, I have come to realize that
the problem we are encountering on this list as of late is bigger than we
know.

Consider this for a moment, that what we may be experiencing is a
cataclysmic shift in the cosmos, and that the reverberations emanating
therefrom are having an unruly effect on our collective conscience.

This could very well be an opportune time to go into quiet repose and do
some composing.

Sincerely,
Gus Alden


Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:05:41 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mark Ferguson <mark.ferguson@DIGITALFOUNDRY.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fatar keyboard info needed

Rik,
  Thanks for the recommendation.  I've decided to get the Studio 900. For
the price, programmability, and action I couldn't find anything that could
closely compare.  Thanks again.

Mark

At 01:15 AM 11/2/95 -0500, you wrote:
>I use a Studio 610, and I love it as well, even though I'm only starting out.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:15:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         mark simon <mgs2@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Courtesy, please.

The ruckus over the recent political flamewar has been interpreted by some
as a freedom of speech issue. I would like to suggest, rather that it is a
matter of simple courtesy.

If a group of people come together to talk about a certain subject they
should expect that that's what they're going to hear about. If a group of
people meet to talk about music and some people start talking about the
weather or what they're wearing or what they did on their vacation, the rest
of the people have a right to be upset. Everyone who entered the room has
made an agreement to focus on a particular subject. Those who insist upon
talking about something else are violating that agreement. They are
disregarding the desires of others. They are being blatantly and obnoxiously
rude.

The first part of being civilized is being civil.  I suggest we give it a try.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Mark G. Simon
mgs2@cornell.edu

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:52:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         John Krikawa <JKRIKAWA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes

>Consider this for a moment, that what we may be experiencing is a
>cataclysmic shift in the cosmos, and that the reverberations emanating
>therefrom are having an unruly effect on our collective conscience.
>
That's right man, the big one is coming from the bowels of extrasolar system,
and I'm gonna be the bloody one who samples it crashing into the earth
at 22 kps!  And when the ash settles, we will all be blind and there will
be no color by which to judge.

OEH:    oh, race, religion or creed
        POP server filter
        work for me so I can think

Am I ignoring the bigger, more important things in life?  Am I a coward,
unwilling to discuss societal/political implications in art/music/emusic,
because I somehow afraid of myself?  Naaah.

I think I'm just bored,
-john
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu        Tucson, Arizona         homepage-less
day: (520) 626-6013
night: (520) 326-3068
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:23:30 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Macalester College Music Department <FORNER@MACALSTR.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes
In-Reply-To:  "Your message dated Thu, 02 Nov 1995 09:19:31 -0500"
              <199511021416.JAA07610@river.biddeford.com>

> Fellow minstrels,
>
> I have a theory.
>
> Having made the observation that this is not the only discussion list where
> recently there can be found such phenomena as lengthy boring debates,
> irrelevant discussions, racial remarks, moderators squirming in their
> seats, subscribers unsubscribing, chaos ruling, I have come to realize that
> the problem we are encountering on this list as of late is bigger than we
> know.
>
> Consider this for a moment, that what we may be experiencing is a
> cataclysmic shift in the cosmos, and that the reverberations emanating
> therefrom are having an unruly effect on our collective conscience.
>
> This could very well be an opportune time to go into quiet repose and do
> some composing.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gus Alden
>
>
> Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com

What a novel idea! Repose and compose...

Seriously, more or less, and wanting to suggest some activity using electronic
sources, allow me to describe a project I have been working on since September
with a somewhat varying group of my students...usually 5 or 6 at a time. They
wanted to start an Electronic Chamber Group (my name for it was Common
Cause...but what the heck).

I meet with them from 10 pm til midnight each week. They schlep a moderate
amount of equipment to various locations and experiment not only with their own
sounds in a rather improvisational manner, but also with the ambient sounds on
location as well as the acoustics of each location. Last night we were in a
deep, resonant stairwell, two weeks ago (in probably the last decent
temperature to be outside in at that time of night (this IS Minnesota, after
all, and there is now snow down) we set up just outside the music building and
played with the sound of wind, passing planes and dry leaves being walked on.
Got to be quite an environmental experience. We tried to really get tuned in.

Sometime we attract an audience, mostly not. That night outside there were some
listeners, mostly students on the way to or from the library. Their comings
and goings also added sounds to our surroundings, with which we then had to
deal.

Anyone doing similar activities???

I am looking for projects to cause my students to expand how they listen and
also to learn to develop various ways of "organizing" (composing???) what is
otherwise an improv session. Suggestions???

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ Ed Forner                         Macalester College Music Department +
+ forner@macalstr.edu               voice (612) 696-6189                +
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:07:02 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom
In-Reply-To:  <v01510100acae5c77dca2@[158.152.9.55]> from "Nick Rothwell" at
              Oct 21, 95 02:52:29 pm

600 messages into the bit bucket, and about 60 left to reply to. CHARRRRGE!

Nick Rothwell writes--
>
>>If you don't code for fun, why
>>are you not taking an easy route?
>
>Oh, fer shame, Mike. :-) Didn't somebody say something about how great
>artists eventually ended up making their own tools?

Remind me to show you the scar fromn the last time I picked up a soldering
iron. :)

>To address the specific points you raise, not that I'm in a particularly
>antagonistic frame of mind, you understand:

After posing with a bunch of supple blonde dancers in SOUND ON SOUND?
Me, I'd be giggling like an idiot. Oo-er, missus, as you're fond of saying.

>>are you running on a platform that no one supports any more,
>
>I expect my PowerBook 100 to go that way sooner or later... As for my Terak
>8510...

I can understand this. It's frustrating to see the second wave (of
'old revs still supported') follow the first wave (or new revs) and
realize you're about to get hung out to dry. I use a 68030 Mac running
System 7.1, and I'm stark crazy terrified of what horrors await me if
and when I go to System 7.5 and/or a Power Mac. And a Powerbook other
than the trusty old (well, on one port anyway) 145? Nyeegh. Which is
worse: getting left behind technologically or being creatively damaged
by trying to keep up? (Mark Dery, in a LOVELY letter to KEYBOARD (Dec
95), argues eloquently for the latter.* )

>>is the synth you're using unsupported...?
>
>Micro-Wave? >MKS-70? >DMP7? Peavey QFX 4x4? Roland R-8 *MK II*?
>Digital Music MX-8? Peavey PC 1600 *editor*? Wavestation *effects* editor?
>Lexicon MRC librarian?

I concede the point. There's a reason I stick to synths with front panels
I find fun to use.

>>If you don't code for fun, why are you not taking an easy route?
>
>For the same reason you still hark back to the days of tape splicing?

ZING! Got me.

>I came from the "not invented here" software culture rampant in UK
>universities in the late 70's/early 80's, and now realise how largely bogus
>that approach is. However, there is still some justification for building
>tools in order to make art. Any MAX user will agree (I hope).

Yeah, but the process Eno called 'not building a wall but making a brick'
tends to derail me more than some others. I end up with a pile of mismatched
bricks.

>Maybe I should go and have some breakfast; that'll make me less argumentative.

Been there. Seen you before and after breakfast. Doubt it.

mike

*amusing footnote: KEYBOARD'S just-released Dec95 issue says that the
Korg Prophecy will be reviewed in the Jan96 issue...a review that is
already written (due to the usual print-mag time lag), BUT is already
being QUOTED in this month's Korg ad! I really should log on to the
KEYBOARD Web site and see if they ran the review there early;
otherwise, well, I think I just saw Mommy boffing Santa Claus.

--
mike metlay * atomic city | PSYCH 303: _THE PSYCHOLOGY OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC_
    atomic@netcom.com     | Pop Quiz #1-- Evaluate your emotional/rational
cd mailorder po box 81175 | response to the following statement, in detail:
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "If you can't get a rich analogue sound out of a
or call 1-800-548-6724 or | DX7 then I suggest you give up synthesis and try
http://pd.net/atomic-city | something easier. Such as basket weaving. :-)"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:05:13 EST
Reply-To:     STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     MULTI-COLORED NOISE
From:         JOEL STERN <STERN@MAIL.LOC.GOV>
Subject:      MULTI-COLORED NOISE

          eric manifested:
          >of composition is that of surprise vs. expectation. certain
          >musical phrases, for instance, have been put forward as having a
          >kind of 'inevitability'... beethoven's fifth being the obvious,
          >or at least most often cited, example. whether, esthetically or
          >musicologically, it really is inevitable is beside the point...
          >it's that balance between expectation and realization that is
          >felt by a familiarized listener that counts. it turns out that a
          >rough statistical analysis of the changing of notes in the
          >ensemble of western classical music reveals a pinkish power
          >spectrum...


          I like this eric. Shines a novel light on a similar point someone
          made recently, in  the Wagner discussion I think. I  also enjoyed
          your contribution in  the Cubism controversy; I  just didn't  get
          around  to  saying  so because of horrified fascination with  the
          "late breaking events."

          Joel Stern
          stern@email.loc.gov
          j.stern11@genie.geis.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:10:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: fractals and such
In-Reply-To:  <m0t71vB-00032uC@dorite1.iquest.net> from "roger king" at Oct 22,
              95 10:02:00 am

roger king writes--
>
>To Mike Metlay or anyone interested:

Which am I? :)

>In a recent cogent discourse I was asked whether it is ok
>to write parts for violins if they were impossible to
>play by a human musician.  In other words, if a machine can
>play arpeggiated 128th notes in allegro with a violin's voice,
>why designate the part for a violin on the printed score?
>Shouldn't the scored part read "Synth String?"

Or you could just write "Violins, or Electronics if the Violinists
Can't Play It" and read the papers about the sudden rash of sprained hands
and blisters at conservatories across the planet...

>As we go deeper into the science of music do we find new
>opportunities for the sequencer\synthesizer to be the virtuoso?

In an ideal world, we should; but Mark Simon and many others have had
many occasions to discuss the attitudes of those who decide whom (or
what) the virtuoso would be, and it's not as promising there.

mike

--
mike metlay * atomic city | PSYCH 303: _THE PSYCHOLOGY OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC_
    atomic@netcom.com     | Pop Quiz #1-- Evaluate your emotional/rational
cd mailorder po box 81175 | response to the following statement, in detail:
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "If you can't get a rich analogue sound out of a
or call 1-800-548-6724 or | DX7 then I suggest you give up synthesis and try
http://pd.net/atomic-city | something easier. Such as basket weaving. :-)"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:26:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: MMetlay & Cubism
In-Reply-To:  <m0t7mBq-0003GwC@dorite1.iquest.net> from "roger king" at Oct 24,
              95 11:27:00 am

roger king writes--
>
>Mike:
>
>"The Music Machine"  Rhodes, editor, the MIT Press 1989,
>has an essay on page 394 called "Multi-Dimensional
>Space Grammars."  Pitch, velocity, duration, and
>waveform are four obvious dimensions.  But it
>seems possible through mathematics to make more
>dimensions of the aural universe.
>"Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku, anchor books doubleday,
>(c) 1994 pp. 359: "Cubism was heavily influenced by
>the fourth dimension." p. 66.
>Kaku states over and over again that relativity
>becomes easier to prove when extra dimensions
>are added to the equations.  This led me to
>wonder, in a mildly amused way, about its
>musical possibilities.

I suppose, but ultimately I think the mapping is so artificial and
stilted that it would be simpler and more effective to wave one's
hands and say "I composed this inspired by hyperspace" rather than
try to do a 'scientific' tie-in. This is my major-league gripe with,
say, the 'stellar music' of Fiorella Terenzi. She uses a mapping
of radio to audio that obscures any meaning the original signal
may have had, and produces an esthetically dull product from it.

>The Rock subgenres you mentioned as your view
>of musical cubism, i.e. rave, acid, etc., really
>don't fit the equation.  They may be philosophically
>multidimensional, but rely too heavily on distortion
>to make their artistic statement.  So, instead of
>musical mind over matter we end up with no mind
>over matter, or cognitive dissonance with a good beat.
>Distortion fattens the wave but does not offer the
>"blow through the mouthpiece and hear it last week"
>phenomena you taught me. Punk is very expressionist,
>not cubist.

That's a good point. I had forgotten the essence of cubism, the
multiple simultaneous perspectives on the same material. For that, let
me refer you to two CDs: "Discreet Music" by Brian Eno, and its
conceptual godchild, "Let the Power Fall" by Robert Fripp. The concept
of Frippertronics is one of multiple images in time superimposed in a
controlled fashion; I am curious to get a copy of his new "A Blessing
of Tears" to see how the idea has weathered the past decade-plus in
its new form of 'soundscapes'.

mike
--
mike metlay * atomic city | PSYCH 303: _THE PSYCHOLOGY OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC_
    atomic@netcom.com     | Pop Quiz #1-- Evaluate your emotional/rational
cd mailorder po box 81175 | response to the following statement, in detail:
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "If you can't get a rich analogue sound out of a
or call 1-800-548-6724 or | DX7 then I suggest you give up synthesis and try
http://pd.net/atomic-city | something easier. Such as basket weaving. :-)"
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:15:10 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" <MANUTTER@GROVE.IUP.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  Your message dated "Thu, 02 Nov 1995 04:14:52 -0500"
              <Pine.3.89.9511020437.A8342-0100000@bgnet2.bgsu.edu>

>On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, James McCartney wrote:

>> >To those who think that political talk encourages your musical creativity.
>> >Do the talk elsewhere, please, because it stifles creativity for others.
>>
>> All talk is political. The decision about what to talk about and what not
>> to talk about is a political decision. If this list decides that the context
>> within which e-music exists is not to be spoken of, then I think that
>> pretty much removes the soul and reason for it to exist in the first place.
>>
>>    --- james mccartney     james@astro.as.utexas.edu

>I agree entirely with this statement.  I personally believe that it is
>the moderators' intention to express the fact that superficially they
>are  politically correct.  They are bogus....

And if somebody decides to start reposting to this list every message that
comes across alt.feminism, alt.gay-rights, and alt.sex.bestiality, would you
support their "free speech" too?  How about if someone else decided that for
equal time, they should start posting all the alt.fan.rush-limbaugh traffic,
and then someone else got magnanimous and reposted misc.health.diabetes, &c &c?

I find it hard to believe that you would cling to "freedom of speech" to the
point that you would endorse a list so flooded with off-topic posts that out of
500+ posts a day, you would find less than 1% that had any direct relationship
to emusic.  Where, when, and how do you draw the line?  There's a whole
Internet out there, with hundreds of mailing lists and thousands of newsgroups,
so why does this particular freedom of speech have to be exercised here?

Very few of the posts regarding "that awful affirmative action stuff" made even
the slightest attempt at establishing any kind of relationship between what was
posted and emusic.  I know I lost my temper and added to the wasted bandwidth,
and I'm very sorry about that because I feel it was an inappropriate use of
this list.  I did what I could to rectify the situation by taking my comments
to private Email, and encouraging others to do the same.  (And of course I'm
also posting this message, because I feel discussion regarding the use of the
list is an appropriate subject for posting.)

If some people find the topic of emusic too boring, then they should
subscribe to some other list or newsgroup--say, talk.abortion.  I signed up for
emusic-l to discuss electronic music.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Nutter                           Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu
College Technology Systems Manager      BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP
ACS/College of Fine Arts                   WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
G-4 Stright Hall, IUP
Indiana, PA 15705
"My horoscope says today is a bad day to be superstitious."
 ============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:58:07 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      A distressing turn of events

Hi emusicers,
I have returned from my trip and resubbed only to find that the list is
semmingly going through its death-throes.  This is very distressing to me
becasue I previously enjoyed the activity which used to occur.  Although
we sometimes have had discussions of this sort about what is acceptable,
what should be moderated, and so on, we always seemed to have worked
through this.  Even if we didn't find an acceptable solution, the airing
of views became a means of purging annoyancee which might otherwise have
inspired really nasty ranting and flaming.

Of course, I'm coming to this without a knowledge of the history of this
thread.  I could go away and have a look at the archives in sunsite (or
whatever that wws site is), but, after what I've seen, I haven't a mind
to do that.  Please allow me to make a few observations.

(1) This thread is similar to what has happened before, escept that the
exact circumstances this time seem to have caused some particularly
strong feelings such that even the stalwarts - those whom I consider to
be the gurus (in a way) - are threatening to desert the list.
    On previous occasions, we've had our discussions and minor flames
and, I venture to say, the opinions of the moderators and participants
have been modified (or, in e-speak, modulated!).  We've found a new
equilibrium.  As Mark Simon said...

> The first part of being civilized is being civil.

As civil people (and I consider most of you to be civil most of the time),
can't we do this again?

(2) John 3 raised some interesting points about the public or private
ownership of listservs, and, by implication, the consequences for those
of us using them.  Well, as an Australian, the only possible way that I
have contributed to the maintenance of this listserv is of some of the
taxes I paid on retial goods during my trip end up in the university's
coffers and go to the computer services department.  I only say this
to demonstrate that, for me, this is a moot point.  What latitude the
ownership of the listserv gives us in what we can say is also not so
important to me, but that's becasue, most of the time, we don't do what
the PhDs on John 3's list do, like telling each other to fuck off.
    Yes, this happens sometimes, and it's usually some newbit to the list
who doesn't hang around for very long.  Such a person's propensity to
curse and swear is, I have noticed, inversely proportional to his or her
ability to face and discuss the real issues.  What appeals to me is that,
while Joe and Mike sometimes feel they have to intervene to stop an
exchange of inanities, it's more often other members of the list who
complain and get the discussion back on track.  I like this, and it makes
me feel that most people here are reasonable human beings whose company
in person I could endure... nay, even savour.

Okay, I said a few observations, but I think that's enough for today.
Joe, Mike, James, John 3, Nick, Mark, Gus, et al.  Please stay.  I want
you here because it's people like you - with your opinions and disagreements
and views and insights - which make this list worth being on.

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:09:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mark Hughes <mhughes1@FORD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  "Mark Nutter,
              College Tech Systems Mgr" <MANUTTER@GROVE.IUP.EDU> "Re:
              Late-breaking events" (Nov  2,  1:15pm)

On Nov 2,  1:15pm, Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr wrote:
> I find it hard to believe that you would cling to "freedom of speech"
> to the point that ...

There are a great many people who think "free speech" means "zero cost
speech".  These are the people who think I am obligated to make my
computer resources available for the transmission of their messages.
They are, of course, wrong on both accounts.

Mark

--
frivolous line of characters:  ********************************************
redundant email address:                mhughes@pms104.pms.ford.com
common-sense disclaimer:           This is my opinion, not my employer's
stupid quote:                          "Magnetic media?  How quaint."
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 08:32:20 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.3.89.9511020437.A8342-0100000@bgnet2.bgsu.edu> from "john
              rossi" at Nov 2, 95 04:14:52 am

Well, still 200 messages behind, I get some email from friends in my
mailbox, prompting me to hunt ahead a bit, and I find this gem:

john rossi writes--
>
>I agree entirely with this statement.  I personally believe that it is
>the moderators' intention to express the fact that superficially they
>are  politically correct.  They are bogus....

I think that my political opinions on many matters would surprise and
deeply upset a lot of the people who thought they 'knew' me. I don't
talk about them here. I don't regard them as germane to EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L.
The fact(?) that this discussion is livelier than some of the recent
traffic (personally I thought the stuff on cubism, Wagner, etc., was
worthwhile, but what do I know?) doesn't make it relevant to the reason
this group was created. If Joe and I are to be labelled as 'bogus'
because we don't want to burn our precious free time moderating a list
that doesn't talk about what it was intended to talk about, so be it.

>Mike, please remove me from the team.  If Team_Metlay affiliation means
>that I have to succumb to your and Joe's political inability to control
>this list, I hereby renounce affiliation.  This is bullshit.  I've got
>better things to do with my time than to worry about your face keeping.

This was, quite frankly, a low blow, and probably deserves a low blow in
return, but if I find it necessary to vent my spleen I'll do so in private
email. John, If you want to turn this policy disagreement into a
professional, musical, and personal separation, you have that right and
I'll let you go in peace. But I don't have to like it. You should know by
now that what you say on this or any other list doesn't mean a thing when
we're in the studio and burning up the tape, and that I don't place
requirements on any of my friends other than that they at least
occasionally lower my blood pressure, or failing that, buy me all the
Chinese food I can eat once in a while. One way or the other, you qualify.

mike
--
mike metlay * atomic city | PSYCH 303: _THE PSYCHOLOGY OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC_
    atomic@netcom.com     | Pop Quiz #1-- Evaluate your emotional/rational
cd mailorder po box 81175 | response to the following statement, in detail:
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "If you can't get a rich analogue sound out of a
or call 1-800-548-6724 or | DX7 then I suggest you give up synthesis and try
http://pd.net/atomic-city | something easier. Such as basket weaving. :-)"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:46:34 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Wired4Soun@AOL.COM
Subject:      Abstract Art = Music
Comments: To: dmantripp@esys1.esys.co.uk

David Mantripp continued the discussion about politics and art on Nov 1
>Art is not produced in a vacuum and when meta
> issues such as this arise I think it is important to let them run their
> course. I do not want to see the day again when artists are only allowed
> to produce 'pretty' art for the powerful while the rest of us 'suffer in
> silence'. The decision to talk about e-music while ignoring the context
> is itself a political decision and statement. A statement which says to
> me that we don't care about values, only technique.

David says:
I thoroughly agree with this point.  I am currently suffering from a
complete writer's blockx

xSince I last participated, 3 or 4 years ago,
I have helped set up a commercial e-music label, of which I'm a
director, and listened to a LOT of e-music.  I also listen to a good
deal of pop/rock, and I find that e-music in general compares very
badly.  It is almost all superficial and bland, either cutesy pie
sweet or "dark", but either way lacking in something.  I still
believe that there is enormous potential for expression in e-music,
but at the moment we're just not getting there.

Art should reflect life - if it does not, it is meaningless and will
wither on the vine.  So much e-music is produced by people, like
myself, who are too old to be in a rock band, male, into electronic
gadgetry (hell, I've got a Newton! :-) ) and have enough spare money
to buy synths.  That in itself is not enough, no more than painting
by numbers equates to Kandinsky.  E-music is of necessity to some
extent abstract, but abstract does _not_ mean devoid of content.
Picasso is (ok, arguably) abstract, but "Guernica" sure as hell is
not meaningless.  Same goes for Rothko, perhaps more so.

Therefore I am very pleased to see discussion of the "environmental
issues" and social context on this list. It could do us all a great
deal of good.  Art (like debate) is _NOT_ there to provide pleasure,
it is there to stimulate.  Of course some stimulation is pleasurable,
but that is secondary.
>>>
Thanks, David. I appreciate your contributions. It's nice to see some
discussion back on focus!

You bring up some interesting observations, relating Picasso and Rothko to
emusic. I have always related emusic to painting and sculpture. It's so much
more spontaneous - unlike the necessary studied techniques for the "classic"
approach to composition and performance.

But I'm always baffled by the music that painters and sculptors listen to for
inspiration when they create 8-> It's sort of brainless music to get creative
by ;-) I can imagine Andy Warhol's Electric Chairs being created to Louie
Louie - mindless art from mindless music. And it's a strong statement, too.

Do we believe that art is that transcendent experience, whether it be sound,
movement, words, or image?  I guess that I believe there are _levels_ of
"transcendency." Stravinsky, Bartok, Varese, Gershwin, Ellington, The
Beatles, Billy Joel, etc.

A lot of rock music had its affect in protesting the war in Viet Nam, as did
other artforms and other music. But, I still have problems equating the next
great visual art "find" with a guy listening to the Dead Puppies or Hootie
and the Blowfish.

Am I just a chauvinist or do you also find it a bit insulting to think that
we composers are examining abstraction in Picasso and Rothko while the
painters of the world are jammin' to their favorite alt rock fluff?

Tom Jordan
Wired for Sound! - computer music for kids
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:21:46 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Blaine Young <BYoung0320@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Black and White Noise

>I've noticed that a lot of electronic music makes use of WHITE NOISE.
>
>I think this is grossly unfair. Something should be done about it.
>
>Actually there is pink noise, which addresses the gender issue, I guess.
>
>But this still doesn't explain the lack of Black noise in electronic music.

If white noise is the presence of all (sound) frequencies, like the color
white is the presence of all (color) frequencies;  then it would seem to
me that black noise would be like the color black, the absence of all
frequencies, or:

S     I     L     E     N     C     E     . . . . . . . .
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:31:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes

>Am I ignoring the bigger, more important things in life?  Am I a coward,
>unwilling to discuss societal/political implications in art/music/emusic,
>because I somehow afraid of myself?  Naaah.
>
>I think I'm just bored,

Hey John, don't let it get you down.  Play 'chopsticks'!  Yeh, that's right.
Play a few measures of Chopsticks, and smile.  Works for me, everytime.

And just to make this suggestion a bit more relevant to this particular
list, try sampling the actual sound of a pair of chopsticks tapping.
Yep.

Then, you will know.

regards-
Gus



Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 15:33:59 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Timothy Kelly <midivox@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Abstract Art = Music. Emusic Symphonies?

Hi All,
   I've been treating the recent flame thread just like I did the OJ
stuff, just simply ignoring it and going on writing and recording
music.
   I agree with WiredforSound that most emusic just doesnt seem to do
anything, except show off some synths sounds. The main thing I find
lacking is most emusic is melody, rhythm, and harmony.
   I tend to listen only to those emusic artists who still use melody,
rhythm, and harmony. And have written something I find myself humming
later.
   Sometimes I pick up a soundscape. I prefer the melodic ones.
   And nothing is more fun than recording a soundscape.
   We choose to yse melody, rhythm, and harmony, or we dont.
   I would like to see emusic symphonys, that take advatage of the
wider tone color and wider note range advantages that emusic offers
over traditional nonsynth instruments.
   Some of the newer synths like the Morpheus, Korgs latest, K2000, are
incrediblely expressive, especially when used with some of the
alternative controllers, that can do microtonal bends and slides.
   Its up to us to grow emusic by the pieces we write and perform.
   Happy Composing and Performing.
   Timothy Kelly
   MidiVox

--
MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays.

Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some
Drums, Sing a Cello.

Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller.

AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars."
Keyboard.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:01:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         john rossi <jrossi@BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
Subject:      So sue me

Look, I'm bored with the trivial discussions of emusic on this list.
Those of you who actually enjoy this stuff and really want to read only
it are, indeed, correct.  So, to avoid, any further wasted bandwidth, I
now leave emusic-l.  I will still receive synth-l anc continue to answer
the same sound card questions I seem to answer every week.

John
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 22:48:47 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: black noise, enoise, ...

>3) ObEmHaiku:
>      TX Sysex screwed
>      Parametric codes are right
>      Why is there no change?

        This just can't be wrong.
        Ah, I think the light has dawned:
        it's a Yamaha.

   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 23:35:18 -0800
Reply-To:     Mario Milat <wd528@freenet.victoria.bc.ca>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mario Milat <wd528@FREENET.VICTORIA.BC.CA>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking news
Comments: To: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <199511030609.BAA117691@atlanta.american.edu>

Hi,

I'd just like to say that I've noticed recently that on many of the
lists the discussions have moved to political small-talk, more or less. I
guess that cyberspace has somehow reached its critical mass of
noncompatible content and daddy McLuhan (after proved himself right -
again!) left us with quite a low resolution of only 7 bits to cope with all
our misunderstandings.  Art reflects life, indeed, and (without taking
sides) it is OK to be politically sensitive. IMO, lets give everyone a
chance to spit out their bitterness and things are going to get back to
normal. Easy come - easy go.

Have a nice weekend, Mario
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:46:02 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James McCartney <james@ASTRO.AS.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events

>And if somebody decides to start reposting to this list every message that
>comes across alt.feminism, alt.gay-rights, and alt.sex.bestiality, would you
>support their "free speech" too?  How about if someone else decided that for
>equal time, they should start posting all the alt.fan.rush-limbaugh traffic,
>and then someone else got magnanimous and reposted misc.health.diabetes, &c &c?

Is that happening? I don't think so. We've been talking about e-music the
whole time. But perhaps some folks want to climb inside their e-music hobbit
hole and pretend the outside world doesn't exist and that they have no
responsibilities, culpability, complicity, opinions, or desire to even
acknowledge or think about it. Because it stifles their creativity to have
to deal with it. Or perhaps not, but the leeway should exist in the group to
explore these ideas. That's why I worry when a moderator threatens to begin
removing addresses.

>If some people find the topic of emusic too boring, then they should
>subscribe to some other list or newsgroup--say, talk.abortion.
>I signed up for emusic-l to discuss electronic music.

Some of the e-music I've heard should be discussed on talk.abortion.

ok, next topic..

   --- james mccartney     james@astro.as.utexas.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 01:09:02 -0800
Reply-To:     bc492@scn.org
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         SCN User <bc492@SCN.ORG>
Subject:      MAC SEQUENCER DEMOS

Say, People,

Any of you happen to have addresses from which I can download sequencer
demos for the Mac?

Your assistance is appreciated!

Sincerely,

--
       --=[  E   r   i   c    I   a   n    S   l   u   y   t   e   r  ]=--

                 email: bc492@scn.org  telephone: (206)728-7145
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 04:33:37 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Michael Crowl <shitcan@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes
In-Reply-To:  <199511021416.JAA07610@river.biddeford.com>

        Yes, Gus, you are correct.
        Pluto is just leaving Scorpio, and is giving a last "hurrah".
There has been much discussion of it on the astro lists, and everybody's
trying to deal with it with as much patience as possible.  Pluto is
moving into Sagittarius now, which means everyone's going to start
lightening up fairly soon.
        I've noticed the same trend on all of my mailing lists, too.
People blow up over the strangest things, lots of sub/unsubbing,
exaggerated nitpicking over Netiquette, etc.  Scorpio is a creepy sign,
and it affects a lot of people different ways, but things should get
straightened out soon.

        Caio!

--< mikey >--



On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Gus Alden wrote:
>
> I have a theory.
>
> Having made the observation that this is not the only discussion list where
> recently there can be found such phenomena as lengthy boring debates,
> irrelevant discussions, racial remarks, moderators squirming in their
> seats, subsribers unsubsribing, chaos ruling, I have come to realize that
> the problem we are encountering on this list as of late is bigger than we
> know.
>
> Consider this for a moment, that what we may be experiencing is a
> cataclysmic shift in the cosmos, and that the reverberations emanating
> therefrom are having an unruly effect on our collective conscience.
>
> This could very well be an opportune time to go into quiet repose and do
> some composing.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gus Alden
>
>
> Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Crowl          08/15/69 10:58am 88w09 41n51
    V/M (206)726-2591      E/M "SHITCAN@ESKIMO.COM"
         "The Scientist, like the Artist,
          is constantly faced with the problem:
          'How do you organize and comprehend the World?'"
     (EINSTEIN SPACE & VAN GOGH SKY, by Leshan and Margenau)
--------------------------------------------------------------

        When it's sunny, go out and play in the Sun.
        When it's rainy, go out and play in the Rain.
        When it's snowy, go out and play in the Snow.
        And when the World ends, baby, it's time to GO.   ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 12:30:22 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Furman@AOL.COM
Subject:      Nov. 9 - Concert
Comments: To: adams@interval.com, alcohen@leland.stanford.edu, alex@korgrd.com,
          amirk@well.com, barth@leland.stanford.edu, bbelet@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu,
          cisco@leland.stanford.edu, cn.bes@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          cn.mmt@forsythe.stanford.edu, craig@well.sf.ca.us, cstone@netcom.com,
          david@jaffe.com, dej@cats.ucsc.edu, dgl@netcom.com,
          econcert@charles.ucdavis.edu, edens@interval.com,
          et.ads@forsythe.stanford.edu, et.jap@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          et.mgm@forsythe.stanford.edu, fish@musclefish.com,
          furman@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu, hf.bmg@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          hf.jbz@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.kak@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          hf.mvd@forsythe.stanford.edu, hf.smg@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          jmd@ccrma.stanford.edu, jody@leland.stanford.edu,
          js%timbre.uucp@nbn.com, kathy@jaffe.com, kato@lab4.yamaha.co.jp,
          kberger@leland.stanford.edu, mab@dolby.com,
          mahrt@leland.stanford.edu, mhui@leland.stanford.edu,
          michael@mcnabb.com, mjohnson@leland.stanford.edu, muscom@mills.edu,
          musjkm@samba.ucsb.edu, pvo@charles.ucdavis.edu, raf@mercury.sfsu.edu,
          rob@opcode.com, robert@rockmore.com, rww@sgi.com,
          sano@leland.stanford.edu, scotgl@csuhayward.edu,
          sheridan.schroeter@forsythe.stanford.edu,
          shinton@leland.stanford.edu, siyer@netcom.com,
          stephenh@leland.stanford.edu, STRANGE@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu,
          tenor@leland.stanford.edu, tildy@ella.mills.edu, timis@opcode.com,
          timper@holonet.net, tsgrey@leland.stanford.edu,
          users@ccrma.stanford.edu, USERS@cnmat.berkeley.edu,
          weldy@leland.stanford.edu

The San Jose State University School of Music will present a
concert of electro-acoustic music as part of its annual
"American Music Week" celebration.

Thursday, November 9, 7:30 p.m.
School of Music Concert Hall

PROGRAM:
"Cross-town Traffic," a collaborative composition by Brian Belet
(SJSU) and William Walker (Apple Computer, Inc.) for two
simultaneously controlled Disklaviers in a data feedback process
using Walker's real-time algorithmic composition program
ImprovisationBuilder, (world premiere).

"Triptych," a new composition for live performer & MIDI
synthesizers by Antonio Barata (CalPoly State Univ., San Luis
Obispo).

"Phoenix and the Harlequin," for electronic sounds on tape by
Allen Strange (SJSU).

"Howard Johnson/Affirmative," for electronic sounds on tape by
Joshua Freid.

"No Exit," for saxophone and electronic sounds, a collaborative work
by composer Dan Wyman (SJSU) and saxophonist William Trimble
(SJSU).

"Heads over Heels," an interactive composition for MIDI keyboard
and computer by Richard Festinger (San Francisco State University).


Tickets are $7.00 General and $3.00 Student/Senior.
For further information contact the School of Music at (408) 924-4673
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 19:49:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Clay Greenberg <GREENBERGCH@INTERLOCHEN.K12.MI.US>
Subject:      Re: Black and White Noise
In-Reply-To:  <951102162145_10944464@mail04.mail.aol.com>

        Black is not the absence of color.  We seem to have gotten
something switched around.  Black is the presence of all colors.
        Anyway, there is white noise, there is pink noise.  I don't
see anyone complaining that there is no chartruse noise.  How about
puse noise?
        Can't we just live in peace knowing that there is no black
noise?  It's just the way it is...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 16:00:40 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes

Gus to Mike:

>        Yes, Gus, you are correct.
>        Pluto is just leaving Scorpio, and is giving a last "hurrah".
>There has been much discussion of it on the astro lists, and everybody's
>trying to deal with it with as much patience as possible.  Pluto is
>moving into Sagittarius now, which means everyone's going to start
>lightening up fairly soon.
>        I've noticed the same trend on all of my mailing lists, too.
>People blow up over the strangest things, lots of sub/unsubbing,
>exaggerated nitpicking over Netiquette, etc.  Scorpio is a creepy sign,
>and it affects a lot of people different ways, but things should get
>straightened out soon.
>
>        Caio!
>
>--< mikey >--

It's good to know we have someone in our midst in touch with how the
universe is moving. Thanks for the hopeful revelation.

Pluto leaving Scorpio? ...hmm.  Could this be why I just happen to be
rapping up a composition that I've been working on for a month now, called
'War', and now I'm suddenly feeling like going down to the local grocery
store to pick me up a few bottles of my favorite ale?

-Gus


Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 18:15:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Kosmic Changez

Gus to Mike:

>        Yes, Gus, you are correct.
>        Pluto is just leaving Scorpio, and is giving a last "hurrah".
>There has been much discussion of it on the astro lists, and everybody's
>trying to deal with it with as much patience as possible.  Pluto is
>moving into Sagittarius now, which means everyone's going to start
>lightening up fairly soon.
>        I've noticed the same trend on all of my mailing lists, too.
>People blow up over the strangest things, lots of sub/unsubbing,
>exaggerated nitpicking over Netiquette, etc.  Scorpio is a creepy sign,
>and it affects a lot of people different ways, but things should get
>straightened out soon.
>
>        Caio!
>
>--< mikey >--

It's good to know we have someone in our midst in touch with how the
universe is moving. Thanks for the revelation.

Pluto leaving Scorpio? ...hmm.  Could this be why I just happen to be
rapping up a composition that I've been working on for a month now, called
'War', and now I'm suddenly feeling like going down to the local grocery
store to pick me up a few bottles of my favorite ale?

-Gus


Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 17:51:09 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes
In-Reply-To:  <199511042056.PAA12680@river.biddeford.com> from "Gus Alden" at
              Nov 4, 95 04:00:40 pm

Gus Alden writes--
>
>Gus to Mike:
>
>>        Yes, Gus, you are correct.
>>        Pluto is just leaving Scorpio, and is giving a last "hurrah".
>>There has been much discussion of it on the astro lists, and everybody's
>>trying to deal with it with as much patience as possible.  Pluto is
>>moving into Sagittarius now, which means everyone's going to start
>>lightening up fairly soon.
>>        I've noticed the same trend on all of my mailing lists, too.
>>People blow up over the strangest things, lots of sub/unsubbing,
>>exaggerated nitpicking over Netiquette, etc.  Scorpio is a creepy sign,
>>and it affects a lot of people different ways, but things should get
>>straightened out soon.
>>
>>        Caio!
>>
>>--< mikey >--
>
>It's good to know we have someone in our midst in touch with how the
>universe is moving. Thanks for the hopeful revelation.
>
>Pluto leaving Scorpio? ...hmm.  Could this be why I just happen to be
>rapping up a composition that I've been working on for a month now, called
>'War', and now I'm suddenly feeling like going down to the local grocery
>store to pick me up a few bottles of my favorite ale?

Interestingly enough, I have a project on the back burner right now that
I've been poking around with for over a year in fits and starts: namely
the setting to music of a long poem by a colleague on the English faculty
at Johns Hopkins... a brutal piece of literature called :PLUTO IN SCORPIO:.

I don't know anything about astrology, so the connection never hit me.
(He did get his astrophysics wrong in one spot, but hell, it's a GREAT poem. :)

mike
--
mike metlay * atomic city |
 =  atomic@netcom.com  =  |      LX Rudis on the culture/language gap:
cd mailorder po box 81175 |
pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | "What a maniac!  I honestly don't know what I'd
or order from our website |  do without his to be mangling of the language
http://pd.net/atomic-city |  we are to be the speak for. Yes?"
or via infinite illusions |
toll free: 1-800-548-6724 |
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 21:03:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>
Subject:      Kosmic Changez

Gus to Mike:

>        Yes, Gus, you are correct.
>        Pluto is just leaving Scorpio, and is giving a last "hurrah".
>There has been much discussion of it on the astro lists, and everybody's
>trying to deal with it with as much patience as possible.  Pluto is
>moving into Sagittarius now, which means everyone's going to start
>lightening up fairly soon.
>        I've noticed the same trend on all of my mailing lists, too.
>People blow up over the strangest things, lots of sub/unsubbing,
>exaggerated nitpicking over Netiquette, etc.  Scorpio is a creepy sign,
>and it affects a lot of people different ways, but things should get
>straightened out soon.
>
>        Caio!
>
>--< mikey >--

It's good to know we have someone in our midst in touch with how the
universe is moving. Thanks for the revelation.

Pluto leaving Scorpio? ...hmm.  Could this be why I just happen to be
rapping up a composition that I've been working on for a month now, called
'War', and now suddenly feeling like going down to the local grocery store
to pick me up a few bottles of my favorite ale?

-Gus


Gus Alden ------------ aldenoob@biddeford.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Nov 1995 22:26:32 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff <pschoenh@PEN.K12.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: Black and White Noise
In-Reply-To:  <E171ZWACL9VYS*/R=ICA001/R=A1/U=GREENBERGCH/@MHS>; from "Clay
              Greenberg" at Nov 4, 95 7:49 pm

These are the graceful words of Clay Greenberg:

->        Black is not the absence of color.  We seem to have gotten
->something switched around.  Black is the presence of all colors.

        When referring to pigment mixture, you are correct (in paint,
computer printers, etc.) In terms of pigments, black is the presence
of all *pigment* color.
        In terms of light frequency spectrum, though (such as color mixing
in a CRT/computer monitor) black is the absence of all color *frequencies*
and white is the *presence* of all color frequencies.
        As sound soes not have a pigment eqivalent, I assume that all the
previous discussion of black/white/etc. has been done in reference to the
color frequency (light) and not the pigment.

--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:18:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  <v01530501acbd091ae5cd@[128.83.251.77]> from "James McCartney" at
              Nov 1, 95 11:28:11 am

>
> >From:    Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
> >Subject: Late-breaking events
> >In words of one syllable. If your opinion does not address a musical topic
> >IT SHOULD NOT BE ON HERE.
>
> I disagree with you. At that point you will be playing god with people's
> freedom of speech rights.

Yep. Pretty much. See below for why.

> Art is not produced in a vacuum and when meta
> issues such as this arise I think it is important to let them run their
> course.

Well, think of it this way. Compare EMUSIC-L to a conference meeting. Each
speaker gets up, says his or her piece, sits down again. Now, to get the
proper equivalences, lock the doors, and don't allow anyone to leave the
room. Then start several sessions at once in different parts of the room.

With me so far? Good. Now start a really nasty shouting match in one of
the sessions. What do you do? Do you let the shouting match, as it
crawls down into the gutter, ruin ALL of the other sessions? Or do you,
as the responsible organizer, break it up? Is the enjoyment of all to be
sacrificed on the altar on free speech?

The reason we can't allow huge screaming arguments here (and the one we
had going was headed that way -- I got a LOT of complaints about it) is
that there isn't anywhere to go. I WANT people to be able to open their
EMUSIC-L mail without trepidation that it will be a political diatribe
or religious argument (one of the reasons we DO NOT discuss PC vs. MAC,
a primal religious issue).

Again: Mike and I volunteer our time to keep this thing on track. As such,
we are paying the bill to keep it running, and feel we have the right to
make it something we enjoy. I *will not* spend time supporting the list
if it's going to be a pain in the ass. And from the dead silence I got
last time I asked for volunteers to help out, nobody will if we don't.
Ergo: we keep it running, we make the rules.

If we could have had a THOUGHTFUL, POLITE, CALM discussion about the subject,
then I would have encouraged it. The problem is too charged for it to be
discussed in a rational way; therefore, it belongs on some other list, not
this one. Such things NEED to be discussed and both sides need to both
be understood AND understand the other. But this is not the place for it.

Belonging to the list is not a right. It is a privilege which you gain
by being not only a good, but exemplary net-citizen. The rules here aren't
hard to understand nor to follow: Be polite. It you can't be polite, shut up.
If you can't shut up, send private email.

 --- Joe M.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Nov 1995 08:22:12 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff <pschoenh@PEN.K12.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: Black and White Noise

These are the graceful words of Clay Greenberg:

->        Black is not the absence of color.  We seem to have gotten
->something switched around.  Black is the presence of all colors.

        When referring to pigment mixture, you are correct (in paint,
computer printers, etc.) In terms of pigments, black is the presence
of all *pigment* color.
        In terms of light frequency spectrum, though (such as color mixing
in a CRT/computer monitor) black is the absence of all color *frequencies*
and white is the *presence* of all color frequencies.
        As sound soes not have a pigment eqivalent, I assume that all the
previous discussion of black/white/etc. has been done in reference to the
color frequency (light) and not the pigment.
--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:31:54 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Abstract Art = Music. Emusic Symphonies?

>   We choose to yse melody, rhythm, and harmony, or we dont.

Luckily, it's not that simple, and I think that's a rather dictatorial
view. Assuming that we understand what's meant by melody, harmony and
rhythm in the context of electronic music, it's possible to make different
amounts of usage of each. For example, I am hopeless at composing anything
remotely thematic or melodic, so tend to rely heavily on classical harmony,
timbre and (to a lesser extent) rhythm; melodic content arises implicitly
from these, rather than being a deliberate component.

One thing which really, really turns me off when listening to an electronic
album is a contrived, stilted melody or solo which has been hacked on in
the name of form, and this is far too prevalent in the UK
Berlin-school-clone circles. People who can't write tunes should either
learn how to do so, or should refrain from the temptation IMHO. (And I
include myself there.) On the other hand, I have little patience for
techno, much of which which discards melody, harmony and even creative
rhythm and musical structure in the name of a trendy drum beat and a TB303,
thinking that style=substance.

   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Nov 1995 17:31:17 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom

>After posing with a bunch of supple blonde dancers in SOUND ON SOUND?

You're exaggerating again. It was only one dancer, plus a 2' flourescent
striplight. (Very Cunningham-esque.)

>Nyeegh. Which is
>worse: getting left behind technologically or being creatively damaged
>by trying to keep up?

Well, I know the answer to that, for me anyway. I'm still on MAX 2.5.2,
even though it's absolutely crucial to my work methods.

Pardon me, did I say "even"? I meant "because".

>(Mark Dery, in a LOVELY letter to KEYBOARD (Dec
>95), argues eloquently for the latter.* )

I feel a rant coming on. I wsa already planning to cover this very topic
for another SOS article.

>>Maybe I should go and have some breakfast; that'll make me less argumentative.
>
>Been there. Seen you before and after breakfast. Doubt it.

It's not what you think, boys and girls.

>well, I think I just saw Mommy boffing Santa Claus.

You'll have to explain what "boffing" means in American. I think the common
usage in English (Lancastrian anyway) is somewhat inappropriate, if rather
graphic in this context.

   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:35:43 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Michael Crowl <shitcan@ESKIMO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cosmic Changes
In-Reply-To:  <199511042056.PAA12680@river.biddeford.com>

        Yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about.  Expect everybody
to stop listening to NIN and start collecting old mambo records.  You can
already see the popularity of things like Esquivel and old swing/jazz
combos coming into style again.  It'll get weird.
        You can bank on it.  But watch it - the break-up of the nuclear
family and unconventional relationships are going to become major issues
(as a matter of fact, I guess, they already are...)

        (I'm serious.)   ;]

--< mikey >--

P.S.    BTW, Pluto has been in Scorpio since 1984, and, well, musically,
I'd say we went from Kraftwerk to Ministry in a fairly short amount of
time.  Although, we also went from Duran Duran to Hootie & the Blowfish
in too short a time, too.  Scorpio can be scaaaary.  |}'

----------------------------


Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 17:51:09 -0800
From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>

Interestingly enough, I have a project on the back burner right now that
I've been poking around with for over a year in fits and starts: namely
the setting to music of a long poem by a colleague on the English faculty
at Johns Hopkins... a brutal piece of literature called :PLUTO IN SCORPIO:.

I don't know anything about astrology, so the connection never hit me.
(He did get his astrophysics wrong in one spot, but hell, it's a GREAT poem. :)

mike
--

[edit]
>From aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COMSun Nov  5 11:16:54 1995
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 16:00:40 -0500
From: Gus Alden <aldenoob@BIDDEFORD.COM>

It's good to know we have someone in our midst in touch with how the
universe is moving. Thanks for the hopeful revelation.

Pluto leaving Scorpio? ...hmm.  Could this be why I just happen to be
rapping up a composition that I've been working on for a month now, called
'War', and now I'm suddenly feeling like going down to the local grocery
store to pick me up a few bottles of my favorite ale?

-Gus



--------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Crowl          08/15/69 10:58am 88w09 41n51
    V/M (206)726-2591      E/M "SHITCAN@ESKIMO.COM"
         "The Scientist, like the Artist,
          is constantly faced with the problem:
          'How do you organize and comprehend the World?'"
     (EINSTEIN SPACE & VAN GOGH SKY, by Leshan and Margenau)
--------------------------------------------------------------

        When it's sunny, go out and play in the Sun.
        When it's rainy, go out and play in the Rain.
        When it's snowy, go out and play in the Snow.
        And when the World ends, baby, it's time to GO.   ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:23:58 +0100
Reply-To:     dmantripp@esys1.esys.co.uk
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <dmantripp@esys1>
From:         David Mantripp <dmantripp@ESYS1.ESYS.CO.UK>
Organization: ESYS Limited
Subject:      Re: Abstract Art = Music
Comments: To: Wired4Soun@aol.com

To pick up on Tom's point (very quickly, but hell, it's 4pm on Friday
here!)

>
> A lot of rock music had its affect in protesting the war in Viet Nam, as did
> other artforms and other music. But, I still have problems equating the next
> great visual art "find" with a guy listening to the Dead Puppies or Hootie
> and the Blowfish.
>
> Am I just a chauvinist or do you also find it a bit insulting to think that
> we composers are examining abstraction in Picasso and Rothko while the
> painters of the world are jammin' to their favorite alt rock fluff?
>

Well the obvious answer is of course that if the "painters of the art
world" were drawing inspiration from music which drew inspiration
from them, then we'd get locked into some pretty awesome feedback!

My hunch is that they don't use music to get inspiration from, but as
a way of focussing their thoughts.  If there was too much content of
a similar kind in the music, it would create all sorts of
interference.

As ever, there are exceptions, eg Eno's The Shutov Assembly

I wasn't really meaning that e-music should draw direct inspiration from
abstract art, merely that there are parallels to be drawn.  Since
instrumental music is a priori a less direct means of expression
(making a doubtless contentious assumption  that at some point we
convert all incoming  stimuli to pictures or language), it seems reasonable to
draw a parallel between e-music and abstract art, and between
vocal/rock/pop music and (say) landscape painting.  What I'm trying
to express (badly) is the point that abstract doesn't mean without
content, and that that content must be sought in the context of our
wider environment.

Anyway, the pubs open soon!
------------------------------------------------------
David Mantripp           Guildford, UK
email: drm@esys.co.uk (work) drm@atlas.co.uk (home)
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:02:52 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff <pschoenh@PEN.K12.VA.US>
Subject:      Morton Subotnick

        Friends,

        I found this posted on a music-ed newsgroup.  I thought
it would be of interest.  Read on...

->There is a wonderful CD-Rom that is put out by Voyager by Computer
->composer Morton Subotnik called maikin music. It is a music composition
->program designed for children ages 5 to 10 (and may be a little older) I
->am using it to teach composition and computer music. It works very well,
->it extensively graphic, using ideas of paint for musical events as well as
->graphic games to help ear training, melody and rhythmn construction and as
->well as compositional tools that are easy to understand and implement.

--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:03:39 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" <MANUTTER@GROVE.IUP.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject:      Re: Late-breaking events
In-Reply-To:  Your message dated "Fri, 03 Nov 1995 01:46:02 -0600"
              <v01530500acbf1ecf0ea7@[128.83.112.41]>

>>And if somebody decides to start reposting to this list every message that
>>comes across alt.feminism, alt.gay-rights, and alt.sex.bestiality, would you
>>support their "free speech" too?  How about if someone else decided that for
>>equal time, they should start posting all the alt.fan.rush-limbaugh traffic,
>>and then someone else got magnanimous and reposted misc.health.diabetes, &c &c?

>Is that happening? I don't think so. We've been talking about e-music the
>whole time.

You must have missed some messages, then.  I've seen too many that discussed
*only* the subject of "isn't it awful that some people benefit from affirmative
action programs" -- the only references to emusic, if there were any at all,
were tag lines saying, "Let's go back to talking about Emusic."

If you want to talk about how affirmative action and/or your feelings about
affirmative action affect your composition/performance of emusic, then I, for
one, will not raise a quibble.  But the purely political stuff that has no
reference to emusic belongs on one or more of the purely political mailing
lists and newsgroups available.

>But perhaps some folks want to climb inside their e-music hobbit
>hole and pretend the outside world doesn't exist and that they have no
>responsibilities, culpability, complicity, opinions, or desire to even
>acknowledge or think about it. Because it stifles their creativity to have
>to deal with it. Or perhaps not, but the leeway should exist in the group to
>explore these ideas. That's why I worry when a moderator threatens to begin
>removing addresses.

The leeway, on an emusic list, should be to discuss how such tangential topics
*relate* to emusic.  It should not be to *pre-empt* discussion of emusic by
unrelated topics.

>>If some people find the topic of emusic too boring, then they should
>>subscribe to some other list or newsgroup--say, talk.abortion.
>>I signed up for emusic-l to discuss electronic music.

>Some of the e-music I've heard should be discussed on talk.abortion.

Dang, where'd you get to hear my "Quartet for 5 Instruments"?  :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Nutter                           Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu
College Technology Systems Manager      BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP
ACS/College of Fine Arts                   WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/
G-4 Stright Hall, IUP
Indiana, PA 15705
"Prejudice is what keeps us from seeing that every member of the human species
is a person with human rights equal to our own."
 ============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:50:44 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "David J. Talley" <boldric@GLUE.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Morton Subotnick
In-Reply-To:  <199511061202.HAA141109@pen1.pen.k12.va.us>

On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Peter K Schoenhoff wrote:
> ->There is a wonderful CD-Rom that is put out by Voyager by Computer
> ->composer Morton Subotnik called maikin music. It is a music composition
> ->program designed for children ages 5 to 10 (and may be a little older) I
> ->am using it to teach composition and computer music... (et al)

*WOW*

... being new to this discussion list (hello out there!) and somewhat
new to the information age in general, I must confess my ignorance and
ask simple questions, like this one:

Where can I find music education software? I've been looking at the
shops for some music related software and as yet haven't found what I'm
looking for. Is there anyone who could tell me what resources I should
explore? Any advice would be appreciated.

-- Boldric@Glue.umd.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Nov 1995 16:51:53 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom

Do you suppose you could replace the Twyla Tharp quote with a new one
or maybe one by Jimmy Warring?
Thanks
Bob Ceely
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:54:32 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Marshall Tuttle <marshall.tuttle@TORII.COM>
Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083
Subject:      Re: cubist schmubist

 > >One can apply the simultaneous views to a musical theme:
 > >assigning a separate sequencer track for each
 > >type of variation...
 > >Track One   Theme
 > >Track Two   Inversion
 > >Track Three Retrograde Inversion
 > >Track Four  Transposition of Theme up a major 3rd.

great, now everybody has learned how to write just like Josquin and Ockeghem
(lived in the 1400's).  Bach did it too a lot, but he was an acknowledged
reactionary.

mt
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:24:00 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         roger king <jollyroger@IQUEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: cubist schmubist

>great, now everybody has learned how to write just like Josquin and Ockeghem
>(lived in the 1400's).  Bach did it too a lot, but he was an acknowledged
>reactionary.

I don't think it's a matter of who did it first; rather, is it useful
to the synthesist of today? Of course, it depends on the synthesist:
Robert Fripp and Brian Eno, as Mike Metlay pointed out, explore the
depths of multidimensional synthesis.  Whether or not their explorations
represent reactionary sentiments is not relevent to an emusic list.
     The mentioned theme and variations can be merged onto one track.
All pro-level sequencers feature track merges. Next, the second
set of four tracks can imitate the original in fugue, and then
be merged to track two, etc.  Each track can be banked to separate
synth channels.  Each channel masters a bank of different synths.
>From this spaghetti bowl of sound comes something very busy, a massive
jam of poly-polyphony.
      Josquin did not have "Amanda's rig."  But the potential for such
sound development can be realized through controled contrpuntal
and fugal input matched with state-of-the-art output.
      Mark Simon, in a reply to the modal horns thread, concluded with
the possibility of fused timbres and melodies.  Each becomes an
"instrument" to be played.  This kind of creative thinking matched with
high technology advances the musical environment of our
civilization.  Bach did the most with the technology of his day.
Are we doing as much with what our marketplace offers us?


jollyroger@iquest.net
busy composing symphony for robert greenhouse
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 7 Nov 1995 14:24:00 EST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         roger king <jollyroger@IQUEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Morton Subotnick

>Where can I find music education software? I've been looking at the
>shops for some music related software and as yet haven't found what I'm
>looking for. Is there anyone who could tell me what resources I should
>explore? Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>-- Boldric@Glue.umd.edu
>
Try Brent Hugh's Music Instruction Software Page:

http://cctr.umkc.edu/userx/bhugh/musici.htm

Titles vary:  "The Improvisors Guide To Transcription" for example.

jollyroger@iquest.net
busy composing symphony for robert greenhouse
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:49:22 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         andy mcdonough <abm@MTISPAN.MT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      hard(er?) disk recording
Comments: To: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" <SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU>

okay so i hear that wooshing sound and i'm being sucked
in. i'm considering digi-recording on a budget....i have
a couple of issues that i can't seem to get around and i'm
curious to see if anyone has found these to be limitations.

first, it seems that quad studio and cakewalk audio both
have to be the source for sync....isn't this awkward?  i've
contorted my feeble brain through several scenarios of trying
to, for example, do a sound track for video containing digi stuff and the
only way i can see is to do my recording (digi) free running and then
recable everything and use OLD cakewake pro to sync to a video
source, trigger the captured files and try and make it work....ouch!
perhaps it's just my inexperience, but seems dangerously odd.

secondly, what does one do about adding effects? i could see that
a reverb might be added by some wave edit program, but what are the
chances that i'll love it? and, since the sound cards are mini-mini-
stereo out, doesn't that make adding effects (other than globally) not
possible? are effects available that are THAT GOOD?....TB says that
quad studio will talk to two tahiti cards providing 4 outs...is this
the only way out?

thanks for your assist and thoughts......andy

-------------------------------------------------------
andy mcdonough    at&t bell labs  (908)957-6674
abm@mtispan.att.com Date: 11/07/95  Time: 10:49:22
-------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent by me and not a Newt or Chameleon.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:58:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Joseph R. D'Ambrosi" <JDMark7@AOL.COM>
Subject:      SEQUENCER SOFTWARE

You must check out Metro by OSC.  It is very similar to Performer yet is half
the price and has all the powerful features you will ever need.  I works very
well with OMS and the Midi Time Piece.  I am a professional and earn my
living doing music and can sware by this program!

Joe D.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:02:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Joseph R. D'Ambrosi" <JDMark7@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fatar keyboard info needed

I use a Fatar Studio 2001.  It is extremely powerful and I love it.  However
after playing the Kurzweil PC88 I can honestly say I wish I would have gotten
that axe instead!
Joey D.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:02:57 -0800
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James Harkless <jhark@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fatar keyboard info needed

At 09:02 AM 11/8/95 -0500, you wrote:
>I use a Fatar Studio 2001.  It is extremely powerful and I love it.  However
>after playing the Kurzweil PC88 I can honestly say I wish I would have gotten
>that axe instead!
>Joey D.
>

I also have a Fatar Studio 2001.   I particuly like the action of the
keyboard.  What do you like about the Kurzweil.  I have not personally
played one, but, I have heard them.  I am using a Korg X5DR and an E-mu
Proteus FX for my modules.  Which modules do you use with the Fatar?  Have
you had any problems with the operating system?

Jim Harkless
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:19:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" <tabbooks@PA.NET>
Subject:      Art--><--emusic--help!

Hello to all,

I've been following the abstract art/emusic discussions with keen interest.
To tell you the truth I find some of the points difficult to understand,
but that has never stopped me from at least giving a few brain cells to
each point.

I have an unusual opportunity which is in the developmental stages, and I
thought that perhaps the members of this fine list may be able to direct me
to the best method for connecting the emusic compositional creative
processes and the visual art of a particular world class artist, in this
case Virgil Sova of Philadelphia (remember the name).

We are developing a CD and art package, the package and the music will
showcase his art. This is most difficult I've discovered. At first I
thought this is going to be simple, there has to be something that I've
done in the past - so many archives - I thought I could pull the
compositions from work completed, but it doesn't work that way. I
discovered quickly that I must create the music for the showcase, otherwise
it comes off as bogus.

To describe Sova's art is most difficult, for although the artist's work
has a very recognizable style, to say it is abstract, or to catagorize it
is difficult, this artist is most creative and diverse. I've done some
commercial work for TV and radio spots, some video work, but nothing has
stumped me quite like this. First, how should I approach this project? A
theme is out, too diverse as mentioned. Packaged music, ie. records, CD's,
and tapes, usually present a singular musical style and instrumentation,
with slight variations, this is comfortable for the listener. It seems to
me that in order to showcase Sova's art I must create music in a number of
styles and a variety of instrumentation...on one CD this is crazy,
comparable to listening to a bad "middle of the road" radio station.
Listening to music for inspiration to create art is rather basic IMHO, but
to look at art and create music is difficult especially if one is
undertaking a project where there is no possible theme (unless I can be
convinced otherwise). Any suggestions from the members would be of great
help.

Alan M. Bookmiller
tabbooks@pa.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:28:29 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom

>Do you suppose you could replace the Twyla Tharp quote with a new one
>or maybe one by Jimmy Warring?

Bored with Twyla Tharp? Dear me, that's sad.

Who's Jimmy Warring?

   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 20:45:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mark Hodgson <mhodgson@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Progress our most important product?

>>great, now everybody has learned how to write just like Josquin and Ockeghem
>>(lived in the 1400's).  Bach did it too a lot, but he was an acknowledged
>>reactionary.
>
>I don't think it's a matter of who did it first; rather, is it useful
>to the synthesist of today? Of course, it depends on the synthesist:
>Robert Fripp and Brian Eno, as Mike Metlay pointed out, explore the
>depths of multidimensional synthesis.  Whether or not their explorations
>represent reactionary sentiments is not relevent to an emusic list.

Progressive/reactionary is an unfortunate dimension to lay on art.
In the late 19th century, I think, the concert-going audience began to
accept the value of performances of much earlier works; the pop world
caught up with this attitude in the '70's or '80's when kids began to
actually LIKE some of the tunes their parents had enjoyed (imagine the
late '60's generation, back then, tolerating a Frank Sinatra performance of
World War II standards?).  Different cultures (separated in space, time, or
both), have different values and often have something new to learn from each
other.  The past can't learn from the future, but we can certainly learn
from the past.  I have a feeling that Bach knew more about polyphony than a
lot of academics do today, perhaps because he wasn't hampered by the very
theoretical framework which his music has inspired.  I rarely hear a work by
Beethoven without noticing something I hadn't noticed before, which is
either immediately surprising, or surprises upon further reflection of what
the hell is actually going on in the piece.

And speaking of "reactionary," these are my sentiments, not those of Newt
the Chameleon.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:43:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         James Gideon <BlahDig@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Art--><--emusic--help!

Life is like a quilt of many colors. Though the individual pieces may be
quite different what is needed is a common thread to bring them together. For
example, a office may have many different and bizzare personalities, but what
makes it work is a sense of a goal or a task to achieve. Try to imagine what
the artist is striving for in his/her art .(all artists strive for something)
Is it to be original, different or maybe to show us a different side of
reality. I would try to figure this out and base my compositions on it.
Remember complexity sometimes drags down the listener. Think simple. You
would not want to distract the listener from the art but enhance their
appreciation of it.
just a thought
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:06:15 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Progress our most important product?

Hi Mark and others,
nice reply, Mark.

> I have a feeling that Bach knew more about polyphony than a
> lot of academics do today, perhaps because he wasn't hampered by the very
> theoretical framework which his music has inspired.

Isn't that the way it usually works?  Theory is abstracted _after_ practice.
(With the possible exception of the Second Viennese school.  I'm sure we
could have a great debate about that, but it might not be germane to the
list!)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:00:46 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Art--><--emusic--help!

Hi Alan,
a few things have occurred to me about your project.  I am sending this to
the list so that others can comment and criticise me if they want.  (The more
the merrier!)

I'll leave the Philapdelphians to comment on Sova's art; I've never even
heard of him and I suspect he's not well known in Australia.

If his art is quite diverse, perhaps you can identify a number of different
styles and write pieces about/with/in tribute to them.  (This is what your
letter suggests.)  That various styles should be juxtaposed on one CD is
not necessarily a bad thing.

I will also suggest that there is probably something in all his art that
makes it identifiably his.  So, too, you could retain something which is
common (in some sense) to all the pieces so that the whole CD has a sort
of style which is congruent to the artist's.

Does this make sense?  COmments, anyone.

Regards,
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:37:00 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Trish O'neil <trish.o'neil@NWCS.ORG>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA * 503-655-3927
Subject:      Art--><--emusic--help!

TABBOOKS@PA.NET  on 11-08-95


T>to direct me to the best method for connecting the emusic
T>compositional creative processes and the visual art of a particular
T>world class artist, in this case Virgil Sova of Philadelphia (remember
T>the name).
T>We are developing a CD and art package, the package and the music will
T>showcase his art.
T>
T>To describe Sova's art is most difficult, for although the artist's
T>work has a very recognizable style, to say it is abstract, or to
T>catagorize it is difficult, this artist is most creative and diverse.

especially if one is undertaking
T>a project where there is no possible theme (unless I can be convinced
T>otherwise). Any suggestions from the members would be of great help.
T>
T>Alan M. Bookmiller
T>tabbooks@pa.net
T>
It seems to me that there might indeed be a "theme"- the artist himself
in all his diversity- and one possible approach might be music from a
single composer who is also capable of diversity, and interested enough
to become intimately familiar with the artist 's life and work; to
develop a creative/emotional response to the body of works as a whole,
and be talented enough to express musically the underlying unity of the
art. Michael Nyman springs to mind, but he is a favorite of
mine.....just some thoughts.

11/08/95 10:37PM
trish.o'neil@bbs.locally.com

They're my feet,I'll put them in my mouth if I want to.CMPQwk1.42 313
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:27:06 -0800
Reply-To:     bc492@scn.org
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         SCN User <bc492@SCN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: SEQUENCER SOFTWARE

>
>You must check out Metro by OSC.  It is very similar to Performer yet is half
>the price and has all the powerful features you will ever need.  I works very
>well with OMS and the Midi Time Piece.  I am a professional and earn my
>living doing music and can sware by this program!
>
>Joe D.
>
>Thanks for your suggestion, Joe, but I checked out the features on
Metro, and though it was attractive, it lacks standard notation.

BTW, someone else on this list recently mentioned that reaching MOTU was
"a career in itself". After writing to them some two weeks ago at their
"info@motu.com" address and not receiving a response, I tried their
numeric address, as listed a few weeks ago (again, on this list under
"Music Industry Addresses"). The mail server returned it as undeliverable.

What's a fella gotta do, *phone* Massachusettes (sp?)?!

--
       --=[  E   r   i   c    I   a   n    S   l   u   y   t   e   r  ]=--

                 email: bc492@scn.org  telephone: (206)728-7145
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:24:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" <MANUTTER@GROVE.IUP.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom
In-Reply-To:  Your message dated "Wed, 08 Nov 1995 23:28:29 +0000"
              <v01510104acc55fbe878d@[158.152.9.55]>

>Bored with Twyla Tharp? Dear me, that's sad.

>   Nick Rothwell     CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance     nick@cassiel.com

>          "Success can be measured by only one thing:
>           the hairs on the back of your neck."      -- Twyla Tharp

For my part, I'm not bored, but I'm danged if I can figure out what the heck
her comments *mean*.  I have short hairs on the back of my neck, does that make
me unsuccessful?  :)  I hate to be obtuse, but could you explain that one for
me?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Nutter                           Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu
College Technology Systems Manager      BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP
ACS/College of Fine Arts                   WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
G-4 Stright Hall, IUP
Indiana, PA 15705
"My horoscope says today is a bad day to be superstitious."
 ============================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:15:43 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "David J. Talley" <boldric@GLUE.UMD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Art--><--emusic--help!
In-Reply-To:  <v01520d00acc6861f5c0d@[205.166.61.78]>

On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Alan M. Bookmiller wrote:

> I have an unusual opportunity which is in the developmental stages, and I
> thought that perhaps the members of this fine list may be able to direct me
> to the best method for connecting the emusic compositional creative
> processes and the visual art of a particular world class artist, in this
> case Virgil Sova of Philadelphia (remember the name).
.....
> Listening to music for inspiration to create art is rather basic IMHO, but
> to look at art and create music is difficult especially if one is
> undertaking a project where there is no possible theme (unless I can be
> convinced otherwise). Any suggestions from the members would be of great
> help.

I once had a similar stumbling block, and thought of all kinds of different
systems to try to bring the visual together with the auditory - most of
which did absolutely nothing.

I am assuming you are composing this yourself - or are looking to work
closely with a composer. If I am WAY off base, please let me know!

In the end, all I can really say is it wasn't easy. All I can offer is
how I approached developing an approach! I hope this is helpful to you.

Brian Eno developed something called (if my memory serves) "Oblique
Strategies" - which was a series of instructions which were listed on 3
by 5 cards, which assisted him when coming to an impass while recording.
I don't know where you could find these listed (** net-folks, if you can,
tell me! **), but the instructions were items such as "Accent something
understated" or "leave it going longer" - phrases to call attention to
what he was working with.

I have heard of topographical representations onto music sheets - i.e.
drawn an out-line of the thing, and super-impose it over a staff -
where there is an obvious turn or angle could be taken as points to put
notes... or a long line would be a sustained note, etc.

Similarly, drawing a direct comparison between colors and notes - or key
signatures - where the eye follows (depending on the painting - where it
leads you) is how the song follows. For example, one may find the Venus
de Milo interesting if followed from the legs up (settle down, fellas!)
but if represented in a piece of music the marble whiteness may represent
a lack of musical contrast, and the gentle curves may be smooth tonal
transitions - but the sudden break of the missing arms may result in
disharmony or atonal weirdness.

There are many ways to approach composition - and composers. If you'd
like more ideas - let me know.

-- Boldric@Glue.umd.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:06:15 +0000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Robin Sayer <rsay@WIMPOL.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: hard(er?) disk recording
In-Reply-To:  <Chameleon.951107110416.abm@mtispan259.mtispan>

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, andy mcdonough wrote:

>
> secondly, what does one do about adding effects? i could see that
> a reverb might be added by some wave edit program, but what are the
> chances that i'll love it? and, since the sound cards are mini-mini-
> stereo out, doesn't that make adding effects (other than globally) not
> possible? are effects available that are THAT GOOD?....TB says that
> quad studio will talk to two tahiti cards providing 4 outs...is this
> the only way out?
>
> thanks for your assist and thoughts......andy
>

This effects thing is a good point. The software based effects that
I've seen although being noise free are not as good a rack mounted
dedicated units. I expect it depends on the effect though as para. EQ can
be good in software, while I've never heard a good stereo reverb.

I think the problem is that people developing the algorithms for good reverb
effects like Lexicon (I think thats right), have to guard them with their
lives. IQS who produce SAW have been in discussion with them about getting
hold of these algorithms but lexicon are justifiably only interested in
selling older less realistic versions to keep the edge to themselves.

Do any readers of this list have any knowledge of good software reverb
applications??

Robin
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:49:48 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Bob Hillier.  Thanks for the subscription.  Bob"
              <Fouryrlv@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: the great fractal zoom

When they are standing on end, our hairs may show that their is electricity
abounding..
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:36:09 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" <harnden@PHYSICS.AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      emusic-l tape compilation, take 3

i think it's long past time since we should do this again. we've
all heard about the Team by now, but we don't know much about the
rest of us (aside from the various rumbles, rants, and
reflections, cogent and otherwise, put forward by a minority of
us). the last time was several years ago, under the editorial
guidance of cecilia tan, who seems to have gone on to bigger and
better things.
so it's up to me, i think. i've got a digital audio workstation,
can edit and master reasonably professionaly, and would have fun
doing it. so...
Announcing the Third Emusic-L Compilation Tape. Note: THIS IS
ONLY THE PROPOSAL. PLEASE RESPOND WITH COMMENTS ONLY AT THIS
TIME, SO THAT I CAN GAUGE THE DESIRABILITY/REASONABLNESS OF THE
PROJECT.
The proposal is that you send me your material, on either
cassette or DAT (44.1 KHz if you want digital transfer all the
way.) Send any copyright information you want included on the
insert. Send a blank tape of the format you want back. I figure
the whole thing should come to an hour. Before I actually receive
anything and  begin production, I would like some feedback on
that and any other questions you feel relevant. Since I'm doing
the work, I'll make the editorial decisions, if I get more stuff
than I expect. Or heck... , maybe it'll just go long and I'll
have to request more tape. In any case, those who submit a blank
tape with a stamped, self-addressed envelope will receive the
final product in return. If we really like it as a collective,
maybe we'll talk about pressing it to CD.
this was a reasonably popular little doo-hickey in the past. feel
like doing it again?

<--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side --->
  Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:50:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Ed Berlett, Music" <E7M7BER@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Subject:      win 95 and midi

Does any one have any experiences to relate about using midi applications with
Windows 95?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:10:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Subject:      Obliquity

I herewith post a wonderful summary of the history of the Oblique Strategies,
the Strategies themselves, and a painstaking analysis of the different
editions.

I'm working on a version for the Apple Newton (hey, why not?); as soon as it
migrates from a programming experiment to an actual finished app, I'll
say so in my .sig. :)

 --- Joe M.

>From gtaylor@msn.fullfeed.com Fri Mar  3 12:35:55 EST 1995

Here is an updated and fleshed-out repost on Brian Eno/Peter Schmidt's
"Oblique Strategies." This version includes a brief interview fragment
in which Eno discusses the cards' origin and use together with an
appreciation of the late Peter Schmidt.

There is currently a project in the works to produce an edition of
Strategies produced by internet artists and musicians, provisionally
entitled "Acute Strategies." Watch this space for more information on
the project. This material will also appear soon on the Eno WWW pages
under the care of the estimable Malcolm Humes.

If you wish to use or quote from this material, I'd appreciate being
contacted about it (gtaylor@fullfeed.com). There is more to come.
___________
The More-Or-Less Complete and True History of the Oblique Strategies

copyright 1995, Gregory Taylor
NOTE: the Oblique Strategies are copyright B. Eno and P. Schmidt 1975,'78,'79

1. What are the Oblique Strategies?

They are a deck of cards. The cards measure about 2-3/4" x
3-3/4". They come in a small black box which says "OBLIQUE STRATEGIES"
on one on the top's long sides and "BRIAN ENO/PETER SCHMIDT" on the
other side. The cards are solid black on one side, and have the
aphorisms printed in a 10-point sans serif face on the other.

2. What is the origin of the Oblique Strategies?

The deck itself had its origins in the the discovery by Brian Eno that
both he and his friend Peter Schmidt [a British painter whose works
grace the cover of "Evening Star" and whose watercolours decorated the
back LP cover of Eno's "Before and After Science" and also appeared as
full-size prints in a small number of the original releases. They
could also be acquired through EG records for a brief period of time,
as well] tended to keep a set of basic working principles which guided
them through the kinds of moments of pressure - either working through
a heavy painting session or watching the clock tick while you're
running up a big buck studio bill. Both Schmidt and Eno realized that
the pressures of time tended to steer them away from the ways of
thinking they found most productive when the pressure was off. The
Strategies were, then, a way to remind themselves of those habits of
thinking - to jog the mind.

It's not clear from the text below or any other sources I've so far
run across whether the cards were explicitly intended to be oracular
at the outset [that is, whether or not Peter Schmidt and Eno
necessarily saw them exclusively as a "single instruction/single
response" kind of "game"]. The introductory cards included in all
three versions of the Oblique Strategies suggest otherwise.  It seems
clear, also, that the deck was not conceived of as a set of "fixed"
instructions, but rather a group of ideas to be added to or modified
over time; each of the three decks included 4 or 5 blank cards,
intended to be filled and used as needed.  (as a side note, I've not
met very many people who actually *owned* a real deck who actually
*did* write on the cards. For me, the problem involved coming up with
bits of advice I actually trusted enough to commit to the small stock
of blank cards I had. I settled on two: "Think of a terraced garden"
and "Gradually overwhelmed, like Venice."

Eno seems to discuss the Oblique Strategies at greatest length in an
interview with Charles Amirkhanian, conducted at KPFA in Berkeley in
early 1980:

These cards evolved from our separate working procedures. It was one of
the many cases during the friendship that he [Peter Schmidt] and I had
where we arrived at a working position at almost exactly the same time
and almost in exactly the same words. There were times when we hadn't
seen each other for a few months at a time sometimes, and upon
remeeting or exchanging letters, we would find that we were in the same
intellectual position - which was quite different from the one we'd been
in prior to that. The Oblique Strategies evolved from me being in a
number of working sitautions when the panic of the situation -
particularly in studios - tended to make me quickly forget that there
were others ways of working and that there were tangential ways of
attacking probjems that were in many senses more interesting than the
direct head-on approach. If you're in a panic, you tend to take the
head-on approach because it seems to be the one that's going to yield
the best results Of course, that often isn't the case - it's just the
most obvious and - apparently - reliable method. The function of the
Oblique Strategies was, initially, to serve as a series of prompts which
said, "Don't forget that you could adopt *this* attitude," or "Don't
forget you could adopt *that* attitude." The first Oblique Strategy said
"Honour thy error as a hidden intention." And, in fact, Peter's first
Oblique Strategy - done quite independently and before either of us
had become conscious that the other was doing that - was ...I think
it was "Was it really a mistake?" which was, of course, much the same kind
of message. Well, I collected about fifteen or twenty of these and then I
put them onto cards. At the same time, Peter had been keeping a little
book of messages to himself as regards painting, and he'd kept those in
a notebook. We were both very suprised to find the other not only using
a similar system but also many of the messages being absolutely overlapping,
you know...there was a complete correspondence between the messages.  So
subsequently we decided to try to work out a way of making that system
available to other people, which we did; we published them as a pack of
cards, and they're now used by quite a lot of different people, I think.

-Brian Eno, interview with Charles Amirkhanian, KPFA-FM Berkeley, 2/1/80

3. How does the deck label and describe itself?

(card one)

OBLIQUE STRATEGIES
Over one hundred worthwhile dilemmas
by BRIAN ENO and PETER SCHMIDT
(signatures, if your copy is signed)
Printed January 1975 in an edition of 500
of which this is number (your number, circled)

(note: later versions note that the deck has been revised, and include
the date of publication - either 1978 for edition two, or 1979 for
edition three)

(card two)

These cards evolved from our separate observations on the principles
underlying what we were doing. Sometimes they were recognized in
retrospect (intellect catching up with intuition), sometimes they were
identified as they were happening, sometimes they were formulated.

They can be used as a pack (a set of possibilities being continuously
reviewed in the mind) or by drawing a single card from the shuffled
pack when a dilemma occurs in a working situation. In this case, the
card is trusted even if its appropriateness is quite unclear. They are
not final, as new ideas will present themselves, and others will
become self-evident.

4. A word of acknowledgement to those who have gone before

A number of us over the years (John Lorch, Rob Stanzel, Mike Metlay,
John Drukman, Dan Maghrak, and others) have entered and puzzled over
the contents of the decks. Unsurprisingly, queries for the contents of
the Oblique Strategies decks have been a perennial feature of net.life
- spread over countless newsgroups and mailing lists [and now, the
Web]. What's usually wound up happening is that the list that one of
us transcribed for posting some great age ago shows up again & again -
often with stuff missing or altered. Mike Metlay was bright enough
sometime in the 80s to alightly alter the contents of the cards so
that they'd fit on a single line for CRT users, but he was careful to
point out that he'd left off the occasional attribution - which this
listing restores, incidentally. But when the stuff got reposted, the
disclaimers got hacked off [understandable, given that some folks
didn't want to bother with anything but the words on the cards].

There were also some interesting missteps in the dreary and grueling
business of actually typing in the content of a deck, too; one version
of the deck published includes the aphorism, "Is the information
correct?" instead of "Is the intonation correct?" So, this particular
posting is an attempt to actually put together a more-or-less
definitive and complete listing of the Oblique Strategies cards - all
three versions of them. As far as any of us are aware, I'm the first one
in net.history to actually find myself in a position to sit down and go
over all three versions. I am grateful to Hal Sundt for his help in
letting me finally sit down with a copy of deck one - the final bit of
the puzzle that had eluded us for all these years (a decade by my count,
perhaps longer). Having said that, onward.

5. What are the contents of the Oblique Strategies decks?

Each of the three versions of the Oblique Strategies decks varies
slightly, as suggested by the introductory blurb which comes with the
deck. And that is the case - each subsequent version of the deck added
cards, dropped some, and reworded or edited existing Strategies.

The untimely death of Peter Schmidt while on holiday in Spain in 1980
meant that no later versions of the Oblique Strategies could be made
as a collaborative activity between Eno and his friend and teacher.
In the event that a fourth edition of the Oblique Strategies is
ever undertaken, it will be Eno alone who does it.

Eno offered the following appreciation of his friend Peter Schmidt:

Looking back now at Peter Schmidt's work, I find myself thinking "This
looks very contemporary" and "How did he cover this much territory this
quickly?" And, inevitably, I ask "Why didn't anyone really notice?"

Well, I know that the 'neglected genius' is a mythical character.  It's
very unusual for real talent to be completely ignored.  Peter was a real
talent, and he was not completely ignored.  Instead, he was regarded as
something of an interesting curiosity, even a gifted eccentric, but
certainly somebody at the margins of culture rather than at its centre.
However, even in the few years since his death, there has been a major
shift of values in the painting world. One of the results of this has
been, in my opinion, to relocate Peter's work: it now looks very prophetic.

Perhaps this reassessment wouldn't have made much difference to Peter
anyway.  For someone who watched many conspicuously lesser talents rise
to positions of respect and influence, he was remarkably free of envy.
His work was very much a personal inquiry, a continuous questioning of
deeper and deeper assumptions, a delight in finding himself in new
territory without answers, and thus innocent. We are always innocent,
unless, from laziness or for convenience, we decide to overlook the
novelty of the moment, this particular now.  It seemed to me that
Peter was more capable than anybody else I have ever known of following
that understanding through in his actions. He was always alert to those
little byways of thought that might open out onto whole new vistas, and
he followed them with a quiet kind of courage and with the very minimum
of self-glorifying drama.

He wrote to me once, "In a roomful of shouting people, the one who
whispers becomes interesting." By the mid to late seventies, voices were
being raised. The streamlining of the art-world's selling machinery and
the general Schnabelization of artistic behaviour was in full cry.
Paintings and artistic egos were growing by the acre, and the business
of marketing them had crossed over into real estate.

Peter seemed to pay very little attention to this cacophony.  His work
was changing too, becoming smaller, crisper, more alive.  And as
everyone else seemed to be switching back to oils and canvas (the
guarantee of "real art.'), Peter became fascinated by watercolours and
paper (a certain sign of dilettantism).  In the short term, such an
unfashionable decision firmly located Peter among the Sunday painters.
>From  today's perspective, that assessment seems about 180 degrees off:
his work is full of seeds, any one of which could form the basis of a
healthy artistic career (and many of which probably have).

As with many good artists, one's admiration for Peter's work increases
with familiarity.  To follow the threads that are woven through his work,
to watch the way that they cross and mesh with new threads and with older
ones picked up again is to see a graceful and brilliant dance in motion.
That this same pace and brilliance characterised his everyday life came,
at first, as something of a surprise.  He never raised his voice.

-Brian Eno, May 1987 (printed in "Opal Information #5)

The purpose of this document is to provide a listing of the complete
contents of all three versions of the Oblique Strategies. While my
interest in doing so is scholarly, readers may be interested in
constructing their own "meta-set" of all three editions of the decks,
or in looking at what is added or deleted.  You're free, of course, to
simply go through and strip out all the accompanying prose and put the
stuff into a "fortune"-type program. As a courtesy, I'd appreciate it
if you credited my work in assembling this list. The next portion of
this project for me will be putting together a nice Hypercard stack
whose cards actually typographically reflect the real cards, includes
some background information, and will allow you to select from any of
the three editions for your own use. It seems like the sort of
shareware that should be done and might be pretty classy, but my
current work schedule is such that I probably won't get it done next
week.

For the sake of clarity and convenience, I have broken up the
description of the Oblique Strategies decks into the following
sections:

A. The "core" Oblique Strategies.

These cards occur in all three versions of the Oblique Strategies
decks. I'm not making any notes about typos here (e.g. Diter vs.
Dieter Rot) These cards remain unchanged through all three printings.

Remove specifics and convert to ambiguities
Don't be frightened of cliches
What is the reality of the situation?
Are there sections?  Consider transitions
Turn it upside down
Think of the radio
Allow an easement (an easement is the abandonment of a stricture)
Simple subtraction
Go slowly all the way round the outside
A line has two sides
Make an exhaustive list of everything you might do and do the
   last thing on the list
Into the impossible
Ask people to work against their better judgement
Take away the elements in order of apparent non-importance
Infinitesimal gradations
Change instrument roles
Accretion
Disconnect from desire
Emphasize repetitions
Don't be afraid of things because they're easy to do
Don't be frightened to display your talents
Breathe more deeply
Honor thy error as a hidden intention
Only one element of each kind
Is there something missing
Use `unqualified' people
How would you have done it?
Emphasize differences
Do nothing for as long as possible
Bridges   -build   -burn
You don't have to be ashamed of using your own ideas
Tidy up
Do the words need changing?
Ask your body
Water
Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate
Consult other sources   -promising   -unpromising
Use an unacceptable color
Humanize something free of error
Use filters
Fill every beat with something
Discard an axiom
What wouldn't you do?
Decorate, decorate
Balance the consistency principle with the inconsistency principle
Listen to the quiet voice
Is it finished?
Put in earplugs
Give the game away
Abandon normal instruments
Use fewer notes
Repetition is a form of change
Give way to your worst impulse
Reverse
Trust in the you of now
What would your closest friend do?
Distorting time
Make a blank valuable by putting it in an exquisite frame
[blank white card]
Ghost echoes
You can only make one dot at a time
Just carry on
(Organic) machinery
The inconsistency principle
Don't break the silence
Discover the recipes you are using and abandon them
Cascades
Courage!
What mistakes did you make last time?
Consider different fading systems
Mute and continue
It is quite possible (after all)
Don't stress one thing more than another
You are an engineer
Remove ambiguities and convert to specifics
Look at the order in which you do things
Go outside.  Shut the door.
Do we need holes?
Cluster analysis
Cut a vital connection
Do something boring
Define an area as `safe' and use it as an anchor
Overtly resist change
Accept advice
Work at a different speed
Look closely at the most embarrassing details and amplify them
Mechanicalize something idiosyncratic
Emphasize the flaws
Remember .those quiet evenings
Take a break
Short circuit (example; a man eating peas with the idea that they will
              improve his virility shovels them straight into his lap)
Use an old idea
Destroy  -nothing   -the most important thing
Change nothing and continue with immaculate consistency
The tape is now the music

B. Cards which are unique to the first edition:

Each of the three editions of the Oblique Strategies contains a number
of cards which appear only in a particular version of the deck. In the
case of the first edition, there is really only *one* Oblique Strategy
which doesn't reappear in some form or other later on - the rest of
the unique cards for the first edition are modified by being rewritten
in some way for inclusion in later editions. Two cards from the first
edition deck actually disappear from the second edition entirely and
reappear in a more generalized form in the third and final
edition. These cards are described in section C below:

Be dirty

C. Cards which are modified for the second and third editions:

In addition to the addition of the new Strategies, the second printing
also revises some of the aphorisms in ways which seem to render the
oracular advice in a way which seems more or less specific. The
listing of these cards will describe the original first edition
version and the modification.

Imagine the music as a moving chain or caterpillar
(this card reappears in editions 2 and 3 as:
What are the sections sections of?    Imagine a caterpillar moving)

Intentions   -credibility of -nobility of -humility of
(this card appears in editions 2 and 3 as a reordered list:
Intentions   -nobility of  -humility of   -credibility of)

Imagine the music as a set of disconnected events
(in editions 2 and 3, there is a substitution:
Imagine the piece as a set of disconnected events)

What are you really thinking about just now? Incorporate
(in editions 2 and 3, the command is removed
What are you really thinking about just now?)

Assemble some of the instruments in a group and treat the group
(in editions 2 and 3, this is generalized
Assemble some of the elements in a group and treat the group)

Shut the door and listen from outside
(in editions 2 and 3, this is shortened
Go outside.  Shut the door.)

Is the tuning appropriate?
(in editions 2 and 3, this is restated as
Is the intonation correct? )

D. Cards which are modified for the second editions, then vanish:

In addition to the addition of the new Strategies, the second printing
also revises some of the aphorisms in ways which seem to render the
oracular advice in a way which seems more or less specific. The
listing of these cards will describe the original first edition
version and the modification.

Look at a very small object, look at its centre
(this is altered for edition 2 [and omitted from edition 3]
A very small object   Its center )

Children's voices -speaking -singing
(this is slightly altered for edition 2 [and omitted from edition 3] to
Children -speaking -singing )

Feedback recordings into an acoustic situation
(this is altered in edition 2 [and omitted in edition 3] to
Feed the recording back out of the medium )

E. Cards added for the second and third editions:

As you can probably tell, the greatest change in the Oblique
Strategies occurred with the release of the second edition of the deck
in 1978. In addition to the rewriting of several of the first edition
cards, eleven completely new cards were added to the deck.

Towards the insignificant
Simply a matter of work
Not building a wall but making a brick
Reevaluation (a warm feeling)
The most important thing is the thing most easily forgotten
Idiot glee (?)
Be extravagant
State the problem in words as clearly as possible
Disciplined self-indulgence
Always first steps
Question the heroic approach

F. Cards added for the second edition and omitted from the third
edition:

Several of the cards added for the second edition only lasted one
generation.

Lost in useless territory
Always give yourself credit for having more than personality

G. Cards in editions one and two which vanish from the third edition:

Faced with a choice, do both (given by Dieter Rot)
Tape your mouth (given by Ritva Saarikko)
Get your neck massaged
Do the washing up
Convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element
Spectrum analysis
Twist the spine
Left channel, right channel, centre channel

H. Cards which "skip" a generation and are modified for the third
edition:

Two Strategies appear in the first edition, are dropped from the
second edition, and then reappear in a slightly modified form in the
third edition.

Lowest common denominator check -single beat -single note -single riff
(this is omitted from edition 2 and reappears in edition 3 as
Lowest common denominator )

Listen in total darkness, or in a very large room, very quietly
(this card is omitted from edition 2 and reappears in edition 3 as
In total darkness, or in a very large room, very quietly)

I. Cards which appear in the third edition only:

The third and final edition of the Oblique Strategies deck was
published in 1979. This version of the deck adds nine new cards in
addition to the two reformulations listed above.

Would anybody want it?
Retrace your steps
Go to an extreme, move back to a more comfortable place
Once the search is in progress, something will be found
Only a part, not the whole
>From nothing to more than nothing
Be less critical more often

6. Is that all?

Yes, it'll have to do for now. You would, I think, be correct in
seeing the material posted here as being part of a larger project. But
I wanted to get this out in the meantime. I welcome any corrections or
suggestions you might have on the contents or the scheme I've used for
describing the cards. You can feel free to make quotational use of this
posting, but I would prefer to be asked and cited when you do. The same
can, of course, be said for the Strategies themselves.

I'm still gtaylor@fullfeed.com.

As nearly as I can tell [barring attacks of boneheadedness], this
really *is* a definitive listing of the Oblique Strategies - *all* of
them. Thanks for your patience.

With every good wish,
Gregory Taylor
