========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:44:07 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: art/music/power Hi art, music and power debaters... Kirk said >P.S. I understand a recent NYT story quotes a "MacArthur Genius" saying >it has been determined that the recap in Mvt. 1 of Beethoven 9 >demonstrates that Beethoven was a frustrated rapist incapable of achieving >his goals. Anyone actually see this article? This info comes to me >second hand, so I don't know whether it's for real. What if Jesse Helms >finds out? Well, if Jesse finds out, keep your eyes peeled for an amazing backflip! If this article exists, I'd love to get a copy. If anyone has the date and page, I'll try to track it down here (Australia). Could be a hoot! If I get really desperate, I might send out a pllea for a photocopy. The New York Times Magazine, Sept 24, 1995, had a fantastic article called "Among the Believers" by Ron Rosenbaum. The cover has the words "Elvis Healer" on it. Okay, no ObEmCon, but you guys would really get off on this article! Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:46:47 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Inspired Cataloging I was in the Edinburgh Music Library this morning, doing some research for the Dalcroze/Kodaly handsign dance project (which is on the move again, following a small expression of interest by one of the major Glasgow arts venues). While the librarian was digging around in the basement for ancient books on signing and ear-training, I caught sight of one of those tatty Amsco books, called Power Sequencing with Master Tracks Pro. It was the catalogue section labelled "Therapy." Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:00:45 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: (classified) NR writes: >I found it fascinating to discover how the CIA was covertly funding >American abstract artists during the Cold War. And now, someday, we'll read how automated net sniffers, looking for 'CIA,' locked on to this list and added a few more gigabytes to their installation in Virginia. Actually, they probably locked in a long time ago, with MT's description of Russian (wow! a double hit in one message) music (maybe a triple hit?). But don't worry, MT, you've made it clear that you're ANYTHING but a M__xist! CIAo! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:32:45 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert L. Dodson" <76570.3213@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Help!? I have a MAC Quadra 840-AV that I want to add some digital recording hardware & software to. I have been following this list and saw a reference to a "synth" list that may have people wanting to sell appropriate pieces but I inadvertantly deleted the message. Can someonne provide the info on subscribing to the list for finding such equipment? Also, any other tips on how to find stuff liike this would be greatly appreciated. Reply direct to rdodson@rww.com or via the list. THANKS!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:10:52 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: Help!? >I have a MAC Quadra 840-AV that I want to add some digital recording hardware & >software to. I have been following this list and saw a reference to a "synth" >list that may have people wanting to sell appropriate pieces but I >inadvertantly >deleted the message. Can someonne provide the info on subscribing to the list >for finding such equipment? Also, any other tips on how to find stuff liike >this would be greatly appreciated. Reply direct to rdodson@rww.com or via the >list. THANKS!!! Robert, Surf the newsgroups. There are some alt.music.makers.marketplace etc. places where you can buy and sell exactly what you're looking for. Alan Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:13:08 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: coordinating the comp tape... last call In-Reply-To: from "roger king" at Nov 28, 95 04:41:00 pm >>Mike Metlay second fiddle Ah don't THANK so. (Second Banana, maybe, but Second FIDDLE? :) Harrumph, mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | AND SO IT GOES: = atomic@netcom.com = | cd mailorder po box 81175 | M Stevens: "I write funk music for children." pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | or order from our website | Matt Haines: "I do NOT write funk music for http://pd.net/atomic-city | children." or via infinite illusions | Ernest Bruggeman: "So don't I! I can sue you toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | for plagia[rism]...." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:00:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: Inspired Cataloging At 04:46 PM 11/30/95 +0000, Nick wrote: > While the librarian was digging around in the basement for ancient >books on signing and ear-training, I caught sight of one of those tatty >Amsco books, called Power Sequencing with Master Tracks Pro. > >It was the catalogue section labelled "Therapy." I had to print this one out. Does the title imply theraputic healing through power sequencing or through MT Pro? They both give one something to do with the hands. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:19:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: coordinating the comp tape... last call At 09:13 AM 12/1/95 -0800, you wrote: >Harrumph, >mike Dear Dr. Harrumph: Your CD is past due at our doorstep. Why is this? My CD player weeps tears in anticipation of the arrival of the nuvo Hungarian folk song it longs to process. And in regard to your order taker in Pittsbug: She asked me who Joe McMahon was. You're website offers Joe's album for sale, but Infinite Solutions has never heard of him. That's not good PR, Doc. Your's, One of your biggest fans. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 21:02:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Crandall Subject: Re: Dedicated Drum Modules In-Reply-To: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Craig Marks wrote: > I am contemplating the purchase of some sort of dedicated drum module to > add to my rig. I am looking mainly at the roland R-8 or the Alesis D4 > (though I am certainly open to other suggestions). I would love to know > what y'all think of these two units (and any others you might suggest). Not a connoisseur of drum sounds, but I will note that the D4 is being discontinued as an Alesis product (replaced by the DM5) and has been licensed over to S&S Industries, who are marketing it as the "Spitfire DX" (gawd, what a terrible name). The D4 and the "Spitfire" are identical AFAIK, other than the mortification of seeing the S&S unit spell out its embarrassing choice of a name at power-up. > About how much should I be looking to spend on these modules? A dealer in DC was holding a used D4 for me, sold it by mistake, and let me have a new Spitfire (arrgh) for $175. Don't know the list... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:08:21 G+3 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: barnawi Subject: billboard I want to receive billboard charts every month. so do me a favor and send it to me. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:57:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Sean D. O'Donnell" Subject: art/music/power (({{Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the string quartet, a palestinian terrorist shows up and spoils all the fun. Good thing Mayor Giuliani was there to break it up before the CIA had to bust in and expose Arafat for the non-western art/music/power critic that he is!}})) NEW YORK, Dec 1 (Reuter) - New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said on Friday he was ``proud'' of his treatment of Palestine Liberation Organisation Chairman Yasser Arafat during his visit to the city in October and would issue no apology. A group of Arab-Americans met one of Giuliani's deputies on Friday and left with the impression the mayor would issue an apology for booting the PLO leader out of a classical concert during celebrations for the U.N.'s 50th anniversary. ``Not only do I not regret it, I'm proud of it,'' Giuliani told reporters. ``What I did to Mr Arafat I believe in, I'd do it again. Yasser Arafat is a terrorist, a criminal and a murderer,'' the mayor added. Giuliani ejected Arafat from the packed performance in October of Beethoven's 9th Symphony at the Lincoln Centre for the Performing Arts. Arafat, along with Cuban President Fidel Castro, was excluded from all city-sponsored events marking the U.N.'s anniversary, including the mayor's opening night dinner. Earlier this week, a New York taxi driver accosted the mayor outside the World Trade Centre and allegedly threatened to kill him over the treatment of Arafat. The taxi driver, identified as Mohammad Ali, 33, later told police, ``I'm going to make a bomb. I'm going to kill the mayor when I get out.'' A judge has ordered Ali to undergo a psychiatric examination. 17:21 12-01-95 (({{It's a good thing Arafat didn't get his hands on any of our classical music. Too much western culture is a dangerous thing, especially if you don't have the right marketing tools.}})) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:10:36 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Dedicated Drum Modules >Not a connoisseur of drum sounds, but I will note that the D4 is being >discontinued as an Alesis product (replaced by the DM5) and has been >licensed over to S&S Industries, who are marketing it as the "Spitfire DX" >(gawd, what a terrible name). Nonsense. They did, after all, help win the war, and the Spitfire is the only prop. plane that could ever catch one of those Heinkel rocket-launched fighters or up-end a V1. The name Spitfire is part of our history. obEMusic: didn't S&S originally develop the MIDI Time Piece? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:11:56 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Inspired Cataloging >Does the title imply theraputic >healing through power sequencing or through MT Pro? It's probably to do with the fact that any computer sequencing will soon take your mind off any other problems you think you might have. >They both >give one something to do with the hands. [Smutty comment deleted.] Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:00:57 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: ART/MUSIC/POWER > ``Not only do I not regret it, I'm proud of it,'' Giuliani told > reporters. ``What I did to Mr Arafat I believe in, I'd do it again. Yasser > Arafat is a terrorist, a criminal and a murderer,'' the mayor added. > > Giuliani ejected Arafat from the packed performance in October of > Beethoven's 9th Symphony at the Lincoln Centre for the Performing > Arts. beethoven's 9th proves its relevance once again! now being forced not to hear it becomes a mark of political shame! cage would have been proud. mt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 03:31:53 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jesse Lackey Subject: WTB: mackie 1202 subject says it all, if you have one that works *perfectly* (cosmetic problems are ok) let me know with an asking price. Thanks. Jesse -- jesse lackey - jesse@eye.com - 3d/eye, ithaca, ny | I don't speak for 3d/eye! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 05:15:26 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Chuck Phillips." Subject: Re: WTB: mackie 1202 Hey Jesse, I've got a Mackie 1202 in great working as well as cosmetic shape. Not much use at all! I've been considering a different mixer configuration. Send me some E-Mail with what you think its worth. Thanks, Chuck (CJSAX1@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:29:00 G+3 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: big Subject: Re: WTB: mackie 1202 In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 3 Dec 1995 05:15:26 -0500 from here comes the heartseper....taaa raaa raaa . If anybody knows something about hiphop ,please send me i'll be wating for you . taaa raaa raaa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:05:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: A/M/P > > Giuliani ejected Arafat from the packed performance in October of > > Beethoven's 9th Symphony at the Lincoln Centre for the Performing > > Arts. > >beethoven's 9th proves its relevance once again! now being forced not to hear >it becomes a mark of political shame! cage would have been proud. > But Beethoven? "alle Menschen, alle Menschen, alle Menschen, werden Brueder . . ." Not a surprising action from someone who's charging the homeless to stay in shelters. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:20:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: WTB: mackie 1202 In-Reply-To: <951203051525_42617395@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Chuck Phillips." at Dec 3, 95 05:15:26 am Not to throw cold water, folks, but sales should take place on SYNTH-L or off the list. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: A/M/P BE writes regarding MT: >. . . I still find the tone of his >conclusions to be a little unfortunate. There is a certain irony in that >even those who "Agree, but . . . " tend to make his case for him. And it's the "tone," the _feeling_, that disturbs me. MT has good rational arguments for his viewpoints, but he is a professional who represents a discipline that, I always thought, is supposed to be at a frontier of experience. And at the frontier, aren't people supposed to be poised to handle that which HASN'T been experienced? As an NMP (non-music-professional), I look to those professionally in the field as being willing to explore the field for the rest of us who haven't the capability, background, time, or commitment to do so--and so culture develops. Obviously, someone who has written 5 operas probably qualifies! :) But it's a _feeling_, regarding an art form about which _feeling_ is pretty important. I have heard, from discussions with some in academia, that this may be a "boomer" slant on music, and that composition as we wrap up this century may have returned, to some extent, to the pursuit of sonic beauty for beauty's sake. I kind of hope not. MT responds to MM: >you give too much credit to politicians. as for all of us being caught in >the cycle????? that is uncharitable, some of us can think for ourselves. Not any more uncharitable than reminding someone that tobacco causes lung cancer--how many educated, intelligent people have died from simple, unthinking acceptance of tobacco company marketing pressure? Edward R. Murrow, Humphrey Bogart, and Yul Brynner had images of being individuals to an extreme--all died from smoking. This gives "too much credit to politicians" and others influencing our culture, only if one can truthfully say that one has never been surprised by a social trend, has never been caught up in a school of thought that later died without fanfare, never been influenced by marketing pressure by anyone (it's damn hard to KNOW that, especially when the persuaders are rewarded, are most effective, when keeping their persuasions unapparent, whether they are from Madison Avenue or Pennsylvania Avenue). >i reiterate, i am not a cultural imperialist and i advocate as avidly >the achievements of other cultures which i think surpass ours when >appropriate. But on which culture's standards do you base what is "appropriate?" Two terms that have been pivotal in this thread: What is _western_ music? A piece by Gershwin, inspired by Russian and Harlem traditions? By Milhaud, influenced by Latin music? By Debussy, influenced by the Orient? And they wrote during the first half of this century. We are living in the global village--does the "western" distinction have any relevance left? Or is the global village just another example of "western" culture? What is _literacy_? We all have to be "literate" to use the Net. The necessary attention span for using the Net is a lot less than for reading 19th century literature, granted, but new communication skills (a navigational understanding of the technology, "netiquette," etc.) are required and being developed all of the time. Those who use the Net are unfortunately part of an elite, as the recent Rand Corporation study pointed out, and they have a new literacy. If the recommendations of this study are realized, that literacy someday will not be unique to the elite. People who buy the new musical technology in MIDI boxes, who don't have basic academic training in music, rapidly discover the importance of traditional music literacy to even have fun with the equipment they have purchased, and God knows how much of it gets re-sold shortly thereafter to the benefit of better trained musicians with perhaps less cash. Others buying the equipment may be motivated to get further training. Like technology, literacy can survive and flourish while changing within social change. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mary Charlene Moody Subject: Re: billboard Comments: To: barnawi In-Reply-To: <199512021211.HAA49972@atlanta.american.edu> If this is possible please send billboard charts to me also. Mary M. On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, barnawi wrote: > I want to receive billboard charts every month. > so do me a favor and send it to me. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:14:05 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: A/M/P > BE writes regarding MT: > > >. . . I still find the tone of his > >conclusions to be a little unfortunate. There is a certain irony > in that > >even those who "Agree, but . . . " tend to make his case for him. > > And it's the "tone," the _feeling_, that disturbs me. MT has good rational > arguments for his viewpoints, but he is a professional who represents a > discipline that, I always thought, is supposed to be at a frontier of > experience. And at the frontier, aren't people supposed to be > poised to handle that which HASN'T been experienced? i would really like to respond to this, but i am not quite sure what your point is? > But it's a _feeling_, regarding an art form about which > _feeling_ is pretty important. I have heard, from discussions with > some in academia, that this may be a "boomer" slant on music, and that > composition as we wrap up this century may have returned, to some extent, > to the pursuit of sonic beauty for beauty's sake. I kind of hope not. i would agree with you and accuse those in academia of utilizing jargon to protect their positions. there is no evidence that feeling is unimportant (except for the post world war II school of avant garde composition which explicitly worked to distance itself from human emotions). furthermore virtually every advanced musical culture known to man has a system of affects or something similar to describe the way music relates to imaginal and feeling spaces. > > MT responds to MM: > > >you give too much credit to politicians. as for all of us being caught in > >the cycle????? that is uncharitable, some of us can think for ourselves. > > Edward R. Murrow, Humphrey Bogart, and Yul Brynner had images of being > individuals to an extreme--all died from smoking. the image of individuality and individuality are two different things. > This gives "too much credit to only if one can > truthfully say that one has never been surprised by a social trend, has > never been caught up in a school of thought that later died withoutfanfare, > never been influenced by marketing pressure by anyone there is such thing as context free thinking. it is difficult to achieve, but possible. under those circumstances what you describe above is readily possible. > > >i reiterate, i am not a cultural imperialist and i advocate as avidly > >the achievements of other cultures which i think surpass ours when > >appropriate. > > But on which culture's standards do you base what is "appropriate?" on no culture's standards. (see statement above) > Two terms that have been pivotal in this thread: > > What is _western_ music? A piece by Gershwin, inspired by Russian and > Harlem traditions? By Milhaud, influenced by Latin music? By Debussy, >influenced by the Orient?And they wrote during the first half of this > century. We are living in the global village--does the "western" > distinction have any relevance left? Or is the global village just > another example of "western" culture? there are several ways to answer this: music growing out of the pythagorean tuning tradition, and which uses hierarchical ordering of rhythm. these characteristics do not exist in the same way in other cultures. oriental influence does not make the music non-western, if the composer was trained and thinks in that tradition. most popular music around the world has adopted the concept of hierarchical structure of rhythm in the modern day global village. i find this distressing. > > What is _literacy_? the ability to read and write. more relevantly, the ability to develop ideas beyond the scope of memory through the use of symbolic notation. Mozart at the age of 8 or 10 heard a symphony of Haydn's at a concert (#48) and according to the story went home and wrote out the entire piece from memory. barring that kind of memory what one produces is going to be limited by what one can remember. what can be communicated to others will be limited by the memories of those on the receiving end. large unified structures will be impossible (though sequencers allow anyone to string things together). mt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:08:03 -0800 Reply-To: bc492@scn.org Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: SCN User Subject: PERFORMER 5.02/QS+ Dearest Readers of and Contributors to This List, I've just received, installed and taken for a spin (a lo-o-ong spin) Performer 5.02. Nice, but, boo-hoo, FreeMidi's Patchmanager doesn't seem to support my Alesis QS+. Since I don't own, nor intend in the near future to purchase, UniSyn, I wonder, can any FreeMidi users tell me: am I now lookin' at entering four or five banks of 128 patches' names manually? Additionally, I invite any Performer users to share with me any tips, hints, etc. which they might care to volunteer, either here or via private email; or point me to the nearest MOTU users' group! And, thanks you all for your continually interesting contributions, here. Sincerely, -- --=[ E r i c I a n S l u y t e r ]=-- email: bc492@scn.org telephone: (206)728-7145 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 18:21:40 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: barbara@NETUSA1.NET Subject: new user I am interested in learning more about your organization. Could you please send me literature? I would like to find someone to give me an opinion about the Roland Sound card for computer. I have purchased the Roland JD-800 Synthesizer, and I want the best sound that I can get. Thank You for your prompt reply. Sincerely, Barbara J. Worthington. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:18:33 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Inspired Cataloging >books on signing and ear-training, I caught sight of one of those tatty >Amsco books, called Power Sequencing with Master Tracks Pro. > >It was the catalogue section labelled "Therapy." > Not in "Fiction", then? Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:50:16 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Hello >link my W7 to the Mac. Is there an FTP site that has sounds and shareware >that I can use for the Mac? > If you have www access, a good starting point would be: http://harmony-central.mit.edu/Software/Mac/ Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:41:00 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Nathanael_Bj=F6rkg=E5rd?= Subject: Re: billboard --boundary_kptrcbrgmobfncshdicf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If this is possible please send billboard charts to me also. Nathanael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:57:16 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: billboard In-Reply-To: from "Mary Charlene Moody" at Dec 3, 95 03:53:09 pm > > If this is possible please send billboard charts to me also. > Mary M. > > On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, barnawi wrote: > > > I want to receive billboard charts every month. > > so do me a favor and send it to me. > > > I'm afraid that we don;t have any such connection. Sorry that I didn't get to respond to this faster. You might want to do a Web search - I'll bet Billboard is probably posting them at a Web site already. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:14:54 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Roger King's ordering problem In-Reply-To: from "Roger King" at Dec 1, 95 05:19:00 pm Roger King writes-- > >Your CD is past due at our doorstep. Why is this? >My CD player weeps tears in anticipation of the >arrival of the nuvo Hungarian folk song it longs to >process. > >And in regard to your order taker in Pittsbug: >She asked me who Joe McMahon was. You're website >offers Joe's album for sale, but Infinite Solutions >has never heard of him. That's not good PR, Doc. Roger: Please email me privately with the exact number you called, and any information you can give me on the phone call. You are the first complaint we've had in over four months of operation, and I want to get to the bottom of it quickly. I heard about it from Joe, and have spoken to the people at Infinite Illusions, who swear up and down that no such call was ever received. One oversight that WAS addressed at this time was that their telephone-order sheets for our records only had titles, and artist names were not given; however, mere mention of the words "Atomic City" or "compact disc" should have, at the very least, brought an inquiry to someone with the needed data, certainly not blank incomprehension. There are two possibilities that I can see as to what happened: one is that the person responsible is lying about it, which I doubt (the employees at the company are all friends of mine and should know better), and the other is that you didn't write down the phone number from the WWW site but instead called the 800 number operator to get the number of Infinite SOLUTIONS (as written above in your message; a company that does in fact have an 800 number and may even be in Pittsburgh) instead of Infinite ILLUSIONS (as given in the Web page and below, and which is not in Pittsburgh anyway-- although you'd need to know where area code 904 was to know that), which would lead directly to the problem you encountered. Let me know and I'll be glad to help you out. Sorry for the list-wide response, but I'd like to hear from ANYONE who's had problems with our Web site or 800 ordering number.... And just to confuse things, there will be an Atomic City 800 number online within the next couple of days for non-order information, questions, complaints, and so on. I'll give out the number when I've verified it works and the answering machine is in place. mike -- "Some of these guys are violently attached to their synths, aren't they?" "They have to be. They don't have any ideas to be violently attached to." ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:05:43 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: ART/MUSIC/POWER In-Reply-To: <9511282016.0SHL800@torii.com> from "Marshall Tuttle" at Nov 28, 95 08:16:44 pm Marshall Tuttle writes-- > > > > This is even more indefensible! By this token, if the Abbassid caliphs > > had maintained control of Europe, then Arabian music would be great > > and Wagner would be a lost footnote to history. > >Wagner as we know him would not have existed. but it is true, that the great >geniuses would be those who knew how to work with the language at hand. >as for arabian music, it would have assimilated quite a bit of other influences >as well leading to....?????? I hate to be a poop here, but you're modifying (or at least restating) your argument interactively with me.. it's one thing to espouse an educated approach from a codified and well-preserved (pickled? :) tradition, and another to claim that Western music is superior to other forms. If you're refining your argument to make your point more clearly, I have no problem with that, and can understand what you're getting at about the communication of complexity through written records; my only counterargument would be that Mozartian levels of memory can be and are taught in societies with oral traditions, in the same way that we teach literacy. The degree to which this approaches what you can do with a pencil and paper is open for argument, of course. >looking at the lives of mozart, beethoven and wagner it is very very difficult >to call them winners. wagner wrote most of his work (lohengrin through >meistersinger, 6 operas) without hearing a note in performance. Beethoven >wrote most of his without hearing anything. these people struggled no end >and suffered profound rejection. they worked in the prevailing language >which was defined for them to a certain extent, but they were not the >winners in their respective times. THEY weren't winners. The people who listened to their music were the ones who were the winners. We're not talking about kudos for one's music in one's lifetime, we're talking about a whole generation of listeners to one's music conquering the world and rewriting its cultural biases to fit. Big difference. >my feeling that western music is one of the greatest achievements of all human >culture comes from the fact that it is in fact more flexible and complex than >any other music and capable of a greater range and variety of expression. >I admit i don't know intimately all other musics, but i have studied many >and really see no comparison in most of them. I will agree to disagree on this point. >i don't believe it has its own power to survive. there is much to learn >however from the influx of european music into russia in the 19th century >and the growing pains of russia in assimilating it. after first exposure >russian composers were left unable to limit themselves to their previous >resources and stuck between following the european model (tchaikovsky, >rachmaninoff) remaining true to a russian heritage (mussorgsky) or >escape from the entire dilemna in orientalism and fantasy (rimsky-korsakoff, >or stravinsky's earlier stuff). western music tends to predominate because >it is more powerful and more flexible. it has nothing to do with good guys. Nope, it predominates because it's shovelled in with a backhoe. We're going to disagree on this one too. > > We recognize beauty > > in lost, dead cultures only reluctantly, and we always start from what > > we deem familiar and recognizable. > >this is entirely true and something that needs regularly to be contemplated >by all who would be "great". when the sun goes nova none of this will have >mattered. "We 'big picture' people rarely become historians." --Calvin :) >actually, verdi and wagner lived during those wars, and no amount of >suppression is going to displace them. you give too much credit to >politicians. as for all of us being caught in the cycle????? that is >uncharitable, some of us can think for ourselves. i reiterate, i am >not a cultural imperialist and i advocate as avidly the achievements of >other cultures which i think surpass ours when appropriate. Someone else has already pointed out that 'appropriate' is a loaded term and you have elected to declare yourself free of outside bias in this regard... I have nothing to add to this statement. > > A lot of it was, yeah. But you seem to think that yesterday's pop > > became today's classical because it was the scum that floated to the > > surface under its own power. My argument is that yesterday's pop music > > became today's classical music by the same mechanism that puts more > > Springsteen than samisen music on Sony Walkmans on the Ginza today, or > > has the Go-Gos blaring from speakers in markets in Dacca, or > > Guangzhou, or Adelaide, or Capetown. > >a) that is not my argument. great music is great by interaction between >point of origin and point of reception. Bruce Springsteen certainly qualifies. >b) lehar (yesterday's pop music) is not classic. it never will be. your >argument does not hold up. the opposite of your argument (loss of power >and supression of language haveing the power to destroy an artform) is >also questionable, witness the experiences of the african slaves who >maintained much of their native musical traditions and successfully took >over the pop music industry through infusion and synthesis. The triumph (?) of jazz is in fact another point in favor of my argument; the native African music is gone, and only bits of it survive cloaked in the Western musical theory of the conquerors-- but it survived and will survive because it was what the armies of this century were listening to when they kicked back and turned on their radioes at Remagen and Okinawa and Tobruk and Attu, for that matter. I think at this point we're getting to a disagreement that isn't going to be smoothed away easily, and I've already noted that your points about the power of musical literacy are largely valid. So unless you're spoiling to keep this going and have specific questions for me to address, I've said my say for now. (I have a visitor at home and we're doing a lot of composing/playing/recording, which frankly beats writing to mailing lists any day.) mike -- "Some of these guys are violently attached to their synths, aren't they?" "They have to be. They don't have any ideas to be violently attached to." ========================================================================== Mike Metlay ~ ATOMIC CITY ~ P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com = http://pd.net/atomic-city = All of our CDs can now be ordered directly from our WWW site, or by calling INFINITE ILLUSIONS: vox 904-385-6463 or 1-800-548-6724, or FAX 904-668-5825 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:21:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Holiday MID files My Fellows In Sound: Finding power sequencing a theraputic activity, second only to the good feeling I get when sharing, I offer the folloing MID files to anyone interested: "Go Tell It On The Mountain" "Do You Hear What I Hear" "The Friendly Beasts" "I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing" etc. I sequenced them for Holiday gigs. If you're interested contact me and uuencode and iiwillssend ththem. :) I can only beam up uncopyrighted stuff to AOL, PROD, and COMP; "The Friendly Beasts" is the only one in that catagory. Here's eggnog in yer laps. arrrrrgh. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:40:15 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: A/M/P >there is such thing as context free thinking. it is difficult to achieve, >but possible. VIGOROUS AGREEMENT 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 EXTREME SCEPTICISM | | | | | | | | | | | ^ If one *does* achieve context-free thinking, how does one know, and how does one prove it to anyone else? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:50:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Emusc@AOL.COM Subject: Compact Discs Dear eMUSICians and listeners, If you are interested in electronic music, you will be interested to know that several new catalogs electronic and experimental music are available through eMUSICx. The catalogs are: =>Pioneers of electronic music (A listing of compact discs that in one way or another has explored new musical and technical territories, including the Theremin, Cage, and Stockhausen, Lucier, Behrman, Ashley...) =>A Larry Austin 65th Birthday Special (All of Austin's music on compact disc plus the entire CDCM computer music catalog at bargain prices! We're continuing this special through January...) =>John Cage (Selections of the best recordings of Cage's music) =>Specials (Deep Listening Label announces its first discs, Sal Martirano, Rzewski from OO, Music from Japan, Composers...) =>Warren Burt's selected discs (Burt is a composer whose multiple travels cover the world and whose tastes in music are singular) If you'd like us to put you on our email list to receive these and other catalogs, please say something simple like "Yes, put me on your list!" And if you'd like to know more about eMUSICx, well, just let us know. Our email address is: eMusc@aol.com. eMUSICally yours, Nick ===== eMUSICx 116 North Lake Avenue Albany NY 12206 USA Voice: (518) 434-4110 Fax: (518) 434-0308 email: eMusc@aol.com eMUSIC is a project of Electronic Music Foundation, a not-for-profit organization in the State of New York, USA. eMUSIC is a trademark of the Electronic Music Foundation, Inc. ##### ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:38:36 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Morris Subject: new material In-Reply-To: <951204175031_124800889@mail02.mail.aol.com> from "Emusc@AOL.COM" at Dec 4, 95 05:50:42 pm Hello, I'm a composer living in Austin, Texas (USA). I have a selection of works which I am starting to "shop around" but I'm not exactly sure how to market the music that I am making. I don't know how to categorize this music, so I would appreciate your assistance, any suggestions you may have would be very helpful. My latest project is a 30 minute EP called "Good for You." It is a collection of instrumental music written for guitars and keyboards. At different times it leans in different directions, ambient, new age, industrial, I don't know what to call it, but for now, let's say experimental electronic ugly new age music. If you have any interest in hearing this, please respond and I'll be happy to send you a cassette. (sorry that I have to send out cassette tapes, but I can't afford to distribute this stuff on any other format) respond via email: jonmor@moontower.com or phone: 512/454-7865 (home) 512/454-9821 (work) 512/613-1847 (pager) Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you, Jonathan Morris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:24:39 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Crowl Subject: Re: new material Comments: To: jonmor@moontower.com In-Reply-To: <199512050238.UAA22402@beacon.moontower.com> On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Jon Morris wrote: > Hello, > > I'm a composer living in Austin, Texas (USA). I have a selection of works [edit] > My latest project is a 30 minute EP called "Good for You." It is a > collection of instrumental music written for guitars and keyboards. At > different times it leans in different directions, ambient, new age, > industrial, I don't know what to call it, but for now, let's say > experimental electronic ugly new age music. Hi Jon! When I read your description of your music, it corresponded so closely to how I feel about my own music, I had to respond. That's EXACTLY the kind of music I make, too, but I've already been calling it "ambient garage". ;] --< mikey >-- p.S. Yeah, I'd love to trade tapes... -------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Crowl 08/15/69 10:58am 88w09 41n51 V/M (206)726-2591 E/M "SHITCAN@ESKIMO.COM" "The Scientist, like the Artist, is constantly faced with the problem: 'How do you organize and comprehend the World?'" (EINSTEIN SPACE & VAN GOGH SKY, by Leshan and Margenau) -------------------------------------------------------------- When it's sunny, go out and play in the Sun. When it's rainy, go out and play in the Rain. When it's snowy, go out and play in the Snow. And when the World ends, baby, it's time to GO. ;) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 01:02:52 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bruce Edwards Subject: Re: David Lunney >David Lunney >On 11/29 Bruce Edwards wrote "... on 11/27 David Lunney wrote . . . and >the greatness of SOME forms of music (notably Jazz) is entirely based on >the interpreter (player) rather than who wrote what tune.' Even a >cursory read/listen . . ." >That wasn't me Bruce, but somebody else. I don't know enough about jazz >or care enough about it to have made such a statement. >David Lunney Sorry David -- bad week for careless eyes -- chopped the top part of post and failed to regard the signature. It was actually from "ross.maciver@medspec.com". The carelessness, with its own despicable derived irony, further supports positions of a camp to whom I owe only ambivalent allegiance -- I have never quite been able to believe that it is a necessary condition for art to communicate (certainly not to pre-define its audience -- that is advertising) but how long before I get paid for a symphony of errors in anything other than counterfeit coin. . .? B. Edwards ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:58:14 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: A/M/P > >there is such thing as context free thinking. it is difficult to > achieve, > >but possible. > > VIGOROUS AGREEMENT 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 EXTREME > SCEPTICISM > | | | | | | | | | | | > ^ > > If one *does* achieve context-free thinking, how does one know, a) most of the time no-one has a clue to what you are talking about b) thoughts don't occur in any language c) ask your local neighborhood buddha d) take your brain out, smash it against the wall a few thousand times, throw it on the floor and jump on it for about ten years until it is unrecognizable and then put it back in your head. e) . ........ there is more, but i suggest that if you can free your thought processes from any language and begin by evaluating the time-differential of the evolution of non-symbolic thought you will begin entering into a meta phase which can exist free from context. > and how > does one prove it to anyone else? why bother? what's the point of proving anything to anyone? i really don't feel this is something worth arguing about, it requires a tremendous mental discipline, and there is little motivation for most people to go about the process. let's just say it is possible and leave it at that. mt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:20:37 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Re: ART/MUSIC/POWER > records; my only counterargument would be that Mozartian levels of > memory can be and are taught in societies with oral traditions, in the > same way that we teach literacy. The degree to which this approaches > what you can do with a pencil and paper is open for argument, of > course. no oral society has produced anything resembling the architectural and contrapuntal complexity of even an early haydn symphony. it is not possible. there are more complex structures in african polyphonic drumming, but the architecture is not there. when the architecture exists (as in some japanese and indian examples) the contrapuntal complexity is impossible. this simply cannot be done without writing. > THEY weren't winners. The people who listened to their music were the > ones who were the winners. We're not talking about kudos for one's > music in one's lifetime, we're talking about a whole generation of > listeners to one's music conquering the world and rewriting its > cultural biases to fit. Big difference. germany conquered the world so we all like bach???? this is so patently counter to every aspect of known music history that it is senseless. the dominance of any musical style in europe from gregorian times to world war II can never be said to have been the result of any kind of cultural imperialism. there never was that kind of power in the hands of the countries to begin with. string instruments originated in afghanistan..... did they conquer europe??? Bach was made possible by the influx of italian style into lutheran music by schutz in the 1600's. did venice (where monteverdi, schutz's teacher lived) conquer germany? your argument is demonstrably counter to historical fact. > The triumph (?) of jazz is in fact another point in favor of my > argument; the native African music is gone, and only bits of it > survive cloaked in the Western musical theory of the conquerors-- but > it survived and will survive because it was what the armies of this > century were listening to when they kicked back and turned on their > radioes at Remagen and Okinawa and Tobruk and Attu, for that matter. jazz is not what i am talking about. there is no element of popular music since elvis which is not directly derived from black musical practice, including harmonic structure, rhythmic practice, orchestration, even the idea of having to move on stage while singing. therefore, again, your argument is irrelevant. for most of european music history, music was an entirely free market. any composer who was not liked by his or her employers had little or no future in the business. particularly in the 19th century, when that market was expanding to include middle class as opposed to the elite, there is no basis whatsoever for asserting cultural imperialism at that time as an issue. the russians were not forced to buy symphonic music, they chose to (there is an excellent article in the book "Man and his Music" on this particular issue). none of the stylistic changes that took place in the first millenia of written music can be traced to political power. as for other matters: appropriateness can be determined without cultural bias etc..... mt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:47:25 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: greatness; d4 1) i've been staying out of the tuttle-thing largely because i'm loving it... well-condsidered, wide-ranging yet focused debate, among articulate people who know the topic. excellent... i really don't have much to contribute, the essence of the topic not being one of my central concerns. and besides, people hear way too damned much from me around here, anyway (the crowd grumbles in assent, the occasional "hear, hear!" ironically floating toward the speaker). but i just wanted to say (the crowd groans and sighs...) that while i acknowledge what i think marshall means by "greatness" in music, it does not serve for me as any kind of metric... it cannot function for me as a 'measure' of anything, especially 'quality'... it has no unique status as an indicator of what moves me, what fascinates me, or even of what i like or dislike. depth, for me, comes on a lot of levels, and nothing accesses all of them simultaneously. 2) i have two D4s, and love them. while the roland has these really nifty pads, and a good sound pallette, the D4 is inexpensive, compact, has more 'acoustic' sounding timbres, multiple trigger-ins which make it an ideal drum-replacement module (for those really ratty mixes that could use a little sprucing up, as well as for allowing quick-and-dirty percussive midi interface construction), and nothing else that i don't need, like a performance interface or internal sequencer. <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:52:54 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Inspired Cataloging >>books on signing and ear-training, I caught sight of one of those tatty >>Amsco books, called Power Sequencing with Master Tracks Pro. >> >>It was the catalogue section labelled "Therapy." >> >Not in "Fiction", then? I would have looked for it under "Horror." Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:25:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mary Charlene Moody Subject: Re: ART/MUSIC/POWER Comments: To: Marshall Tuttle In-Reply-To: <9512042220.0VE0900@torii.com> On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Marshall Tuttle wrote: > Bach was made possible by the influx of italian style into lutheran music > by schutz in the 1600's. did venice (where monteverdi, schutz's teacher lived) > conquer germany? your argument is demonstrably counter to > historical fact. > > > The triumph (?) of jazz is in fact another point in favor of my > > argument; the native African music is gone, and only bits of it > > survive cloaked in the Western musical theory of the conquerors-- but > > it survived and will survive because it was what the armies of this > > century were listening to when they kicked back and turned on their > > radioes at Remagen and Okinawa and Tobruk and Attu, for that matter. > > jazz is not what i am talking about. there is no element of popular music > since elvis which is not directly derived from black musical practice, > including harmonic structure, rhythmic practice, orchestration, even the idea > of having to move on stage while singing. therefore, again, your argument is > irrelevant. > > mt Marshall, I'm not sure to whom you were replying when you wrote the above statement about the influence of black musical influence, but I have to say I was surprised. You didn't respond to my post(or at least I haven't seen it) that spoke of spirituals, etc, so I wasn't sure of your feelings. If the person to whom you replied believes that native African music hasn't survived because of the influence of other cultures, what was said (conquerors...hmmmmm) than certainly we can say that native music of any culture does not really exist, unless that culture is totally isolated from the rest of the world, sort of a lost culture. For even the "conquerors", take back or are influenced by what they've seen, heard. And as the cultures continue to mix the purity of the cultures music is altered if only minutely (sp?). Mary Moody Vigo County Public Library Terre Haute, Indiana http://silver.ucs.indiana.edu/~mmoody/Aaron.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:45:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: Roger King's ordering problem At 11:14 AM 12/4/95 -0800, you wrote: >Please email me privately with the exact number you called, and any >information you can give me on the phone call. You are the first >complaint we've had in over four months of operation, and I want to >get to the bottom of it quickly. I heard about it from Joe, and have >spoken to the people at Infinite Illusions, who swear up and down that >no such call was ever received. Bullshit. I dialed the 800 number. I ordered your "Band of Fire" CD. I gave the girl my visa number. She said it would be a couple of weeks and that was a fucking month ago, Mike. I'm calling the bank if they say I never made the call! I also wanted to order Joe's album but was asked who he was! THAT'S NO LIE. > >There are two possibilities that I can see as to what happened: one is >that the person responsible is lying about it, which I doubt (the >employees at the company are all friends of mine and should know >better), and the other is that you didn't write down the phone number >from the WWW site but instead called the 800 number operator to get >the number of Infinite SOLUTIONS (as written above in your message; a >company that does in fact have an 800 number and may even be in >Pittsburgh) instead of Infinite ILLUSIONS (as given in the Web page >and below, and which is not in Pittsburgh anyway-- although you'd need >to know where area code 904 was to know that), which would lead >directly to the problem you encountered. Let me know and I'll be glad >to help you out. I dialed the 800 number from your signature. The 'solutions' was a humorous malprop. > >Sorry for the list-wide response, but I'd like to hear from ANYONE >who's had problems with our Web site or 800 ordering number.... And >just to confuse things, there will be an Atomic City 800 number online >within the next couple of days for non-order information, questions, >complaints, and so on. I'll give out the number when I've verified it >works and the answering machine is in place. > > "Some of these guys are violently attached to their synths, aren't they?" > "They have to be. They don't have any ideas to be violently attached to." POW! SMACK! ZATTATTAT! Urmph! KABLAM! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:26:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: Inspired Cataloging Comments: To: Nick Rothwell At 10:53 AM 12/5/95 +0000, you wrote: >I don't have any CD material of my own other than the work on the >Team Metlay albums (q.v.) Dear Nick, Don,t worry about sending me anything, mate. As soon as I get my fight with Metlay settled I'll order the two Team Metlay CD's and give your work a listen. Right now I'm his biggest problem; and, in America, that means I'm his biggest opportunity. your's, jolly roger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:42:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: David Lunney >I have never quite been able to believe that it is a necessary condition for >art to >communicate >B. Edwards Is it then necessary for appreciators of art to interpret? An electronic music art exhibit in Berlin recently featured a "Sound Wall." Picture in your mind an entire wall of soldered electronic cirquitry. There were motion sensors all along this wall; and, as one passed, musical sounds were set off. The appreciator could interact with the sound wall by waving their hands over sensors. Not only was the "Sound Wall" way cool; just like Bruce, it was "very." To folks living elsewhere: "very" is a compliment in California. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:49:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: TrueSound Midi Player Comments: To: info@torcomp.com Dear Sir or Madam: "Music & Computers" Winter 1995 showcased TrueSound and its Pentium Negative Signal utilization. Could you please give us some info on a tantative release date, as well as the benefits and features your software will offer Pentium users. Info regarding the 100 plus simultaneous voices would be very greatly appreciated by the party of the first part. : ) Thanks. Very Truly Your's Roger King Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tony Uccello Subject: Re: TrueSound Midi Player Comments: To: jollyroger@iquest.net Hello Roger, At 11:57 05/12/95, you wrote: >>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 11:49 EST >>X-Sender: jollyroger@pop.iquest.net >>To: info@torcomp.com >>From: Roger King >>Subject: TrueSound Midi Player >>Cc: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU >> >>Dear Sir or Madam: >> >>"Music & Computers" Winter 1995 showcased TrueSound >>and its Pentium Negative Signal utilization. >> >>Could you please give us some info on a tantative >>release date, as well as the benefits and features >>your software will offer Pentium users. >> We plan to have available a demo with WEB compatibility in the next two weeks. You can keep in touch with TrueSound(TM) status at our web site; URL: http://www.torcomp.com/truesound/truesound.htm >>Info regarding the 100 plus simultaneous voices >>would be very greatly appreciated by the party >>of the first part. : ) >> We are sending a pre-release demo to selected individuals only. Currently, only OEMs, media individuals or professionals. If you'd like I can put you on that list as well. This demo has performance statistics and a built-in MIDI to WAV file generator. What's your profession? Do you work for Electronic Musician??? >>Thanks. >> >>Very Truly Your's >> >>Roger King >>Indianapolis >> >> >Frank Nanfara >TOR Computerized Systems Inc. >160 Applewood Crescent, #14 >Concord, Ontario L4K 4H2 >Tel. (905) 660-3262 or 1-800-561-7520 >Fax. (905) 660-1382 >E-Mail: frankn@torcomp.com >Internet: www.torcomp.com > > Tony Uccello Product Development TOR Computerized Systems Inc. E-mail:tonyu@torcomp.com CIS:72640,354 http://www.torcomp.com -------------------------------------------- Good use for obsolete CD's... Mirrors for people who don't like their noses! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:47:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Roger King Subject: Re: TrueSound Midi Player Comments: To: Tony Uccello At 01:59 PM 12/5/95 -0400, you wrote: >We plan to have available a demo with WEB compatibility in the next two weeks. >You can keep in touch with TrueSound(TM) status at our web site; > >URL: http://www.torcomp.com/truesound/truesound.htm > >>Frank Nanfara >>TOR Computerized Systems Inc. >>160 Applewood Crescent, #14 >>Concord, Ontario L4K 4H2 >>Tel. (905) 660-3262 or 1-800-561-7520 >>Fax. (905) 660-1382 >>E-Mail: frankn@torcomp.com >>Internet: www.torcomp.com >> >> >Tony Uccello >Product Development >TOR Computerized Systems Inc. >E-mail:tonyu@torcomp.com >CIS:72640,354 >http://www.torcomp.com >-------------------------------------------- >Good use for obsolete CD's... >Mirrors for people who don't like their noses! Dear Tony: I write music. I use a pentium 100 IBM Aptiva with 16 megs of ram, 1.6 gigs of hard drive running on Windows 95. I do notation, sequencing, sampling, and playlist performance. I look forward to buying your product when it becomes commercially available. Very Truly Your's, Roger King ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:52:14 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: GREATNESS; D4 > sighs...) that while i acknowledge what i think marshall means by > "greatness" in music, it does not serve for me as any kind of > metric... it cannot function for me as a 'measure' of anything, > especially 'quality'... it has no unique status as an indicator > of what moves me, what fascinates me, or even of what i like or > dislike. depth, for me, comes on a lot of levels, and nothing > accesses all of them simultaneously. this is all true and consistent with what i have been saying. the one thing i haven't said which is the next step is this: if a piece is obviously great, obviously has a profound effect upon the assembled multitudes over the ages, then it is not unwise to study the piece and see how it achieves its effect. while i agree there is no way you can measure or predict greatness, there are infinite numbers of ways to characterize it and learn from it. mt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:58:47 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: A/M/P Hi Marshall, a couple of questions regarding your slightly flippant reply to Nick (well, it came across that way)... > b) thoughts don't occur in any language That rather depends on the thinking. You can imagine yourself or friends as an image in your mind without reference to language, and think of events or activities in the same way. But if you want to start manipulating those and apply some sort of abstract processing, how far can you get without language? When I think, I am often speaking to myself; I do this in English and only in English (since it is all I speak) and I do it with my voice (or at least the way my voice sounds to me). > begin by evaluating the time-differential of the evolution > of non-symbolic thought Run that by me one more time, please. > why bother? what's the point of proving anything to anyone? You might not prove it, but you might just go a long way in convincing others of your point of view. Isn't this what you, I and various others have being doing in this thread? > let's just say it is possible and leave it at that. I don't believe we've established that, but I'm open to suggestions. Any linguists or behavioral scientists out there? Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:29:46 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: ART/MUSIC/POWER Hi Marshall, me again. I have a few more points regarding your reply to whoever talked about memory in oral culture. Oddly, enough, my contribution about music patronage and print technology as being the means of promotion for certain composers or bodies of work only got one reply, and that was private (or did I miss something?) If you recall what I said, I'd be interested to know what you think. Now, about your last message... > no oral society has produced anything resembling the architectural and > contrapuntal complexity of even an early haydn symphony. True. But no composer in Europe for most of the last millenium whose music was recorded on vellum/paper/whatever ever produced anythingthat feels like the swingof Mandinka balafon and kora, or, for that matter, James Brown. What I suspect has happened is that the different cultures have favoured different aspects of music (in the pitch and time domains). As thinking in Europe generally became more reductionist, musical rhythm of European composers became more reductionist in the sense that duple division became the chief means of articulating rhythms and a rather strict idenitification of 'strong' and 'weak' beats emerged. Let's face it, there simply are some rhythms, even given a limited definiton of syncopation, which just don;t occur in Western music until the 20th century. (Of course, this is when non-Western musics began to influence art music.) > there are more complex structures in african polyphonic drumming, but the > architecture is not there. I'm wary of this metaphor, but we could make a similar case for actual architecture. Notions of symmetry, ratio and perspective came about and were 'cemented' in this culture first by the technology of literacy and second the adoption of print technology. > the dominance of any musical style in europe from gregorian times to > world war II can never be said to have been the result of any kind of > cultural imperialism. Can't it? Few people here have answered my argument that those who held power _within_ societies determined which music was recorded or performed. Can't we distinguish between the culture of aristocracy or the culture of the proletariat? (I use the latter term loosely.) The ruling classes had much in common with one another and the means of exchanging information, even between nation states. (And of course, this communication was not slight -- as witnessed by the ever-changing political relations between nation states.) Could this not be a chief factor in the dissemination of particular musical styles? Fashion has rarely been confined to single nations. > Bach was made possible by the influx of italian style into lutheran music > by schutz in the 1600's. And how did Schutz find out about what was going on in Venice? Patronage was still very prominent in those times, and patronage was provided by the ruling classes. Let us not forget, however, that the middle classes -- most notably in Holland -- had an increasing means of at least commissioning works in providing patronage. > for most of european music history, music was an entirely free market. I think we have to be careful here. Some of the music you've been talking about was happening before capitalism emerged. Usiing a term like 'free market' could be misleading. > particularly in the 19th century, when that market was > expanding to include middle class as opposed to the elite Sure, but where did _they_ get ideas about what sort of music to patronize or commission? The structure of previous societies meant that even folk musics in those societies didn't get much of a look in. And, of course, non-Western music was beyond the pale, since it would have been considered as 'inferior' just as its purveyors were! Those attitudes, which we would now call racist, are a part of cultural imperialism. Not only did Western states conquer non-Western societies but inferred that theirs was superior because they able to do so. > none of the stylistic changes that took place in > the first millenia of written music can be traced to political power. Perhaps not directly. But from what I have said about access to political power and means of comunication, I'd have to say that indirect influence is probable (if not a certainty). Such influences are rarely explicit; as we know from the way that media and communications work in our times, we often don't recognise influences becasue they are so subtle. (And modern media, it would seem, are not very good for exposing and articulating subtlety.) Thta's all for now. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:14:03 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DebDAtCHP@AOL.COM Subject: Can you help me? A friend told me to contact you to help solve a probem. I own a Mac 520c laptop. 8M Ram, 320 HD. I'm running EMagic's Logic 2.5 with one small problem. I don't know what SMPTE Unit to buy to run my computer with my Alesis ADAT. I'd bought an Opcode Studio 3, but it doesn't like the fact that my Mac only has one port for Modem and Printer. It wants one for each. This unit, it turns out, doesn't like laptops, and so, back to the dealer it went. But now, what unit is reasonably priced, and compatible with laptops? Your response will be greatly appreciated.--Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 00:08:06 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: A/M/P Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU >this may be a "boomer" slant on music, and that >composition as we wrap up this century may have returned, to some extent, >to the pursuit of sonic beauty for beauty's sake. I kind of hope not. first of all to suggest that composition is moving in a specific direction, even to "some extent," is questionable. second, why "kind of" single sonic beauty out as something not worthy of pursuit. doesn't music have room for exploring all sorts of emotive, political, descriptive, etc. directions. and even if what you state is the case, we could do far worse than beauty. in an effort to bring context and literacy to visual art, look how text-based art has become relevant only at the expense of painting as a pure visual medium. there is something about recognizing the media that we work in and how it works, and what it does best. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:02:38 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: A/M/P >there is more, but i suggest that if you can free your thought processes from >any language and begin by evaluating the time-differential of the evolution >of non-symbolic thought you will begin entering into a meta phase which can >exist free from context. Can I use this in my next Arts Council application? It's absolutely meaningless but looks good. >i really don't feel this is something worth arguing about, it requires a >tremendous mental discipline, and there is little motivation for most people >to go about the process. let's just say it is possible and leave it at that. Ah. So it's something which by its very nature is impossible to prove, and yet it exists because you say so and because you're skilled enough to achieve it where most others haven't and can't. I think you could make a new religion out of this and become very rich. (Actually this context-free thinking might exist, but as I say, noone can prove anything about it; it's surely a subjective state of mind. In fact, I suggest that I can already achieve it and what you have managed is in fact a false approximation to it.) Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:55:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: James Snipes Subject: Re: Holiday MID files I would to hear your sequences! Please send as many as you would like to: JJJJJJJ@AOL.com (That's 7 J's) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:10:10 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Subject: Context-free rhapsody In-Reply-To: <9512042158.0UV5100@torii.com> On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Marshall Tuttle wrote: > > >there is such thing as context free thinking. it is difficult to > > achieve, > > >but possible. > > > > VIGOROUS AGREEMENT 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 EXTREME > > SCEPTICISM > > | | | | | | | | | | | > > ^ > > > > If one *does* achieve context-free thinking, how does one know, > > a) most of the time no-one has a clue to what you are talking about Oh, like Ross Perot? :) > b) thoughts don't occur in any language Wittgenstein would protest, but that's another chapter. > c) ask your local neighborhood buddha > d) take your brain out, smash it against the wall a few thousand times, > throw it on the floor and jump on it for about ten years until it is > unrecognizable and then put it back in your head. > e) . ........ ??? > there is more, but i suggest that if you can free your thought processes from > any language and begin by evaluating the time-differential of the evolution > of non-symbolic thought you will begin entering into a meta phase which can > exist free from context. Is thought which exists in the context of context-free thought, context-free? > > and how > > does one prove it to anyone else? > > why bother? what's the point of proving anything to anyone? > > i really don't feel this is something worth arguing about, it requires a > tremendous mental discipline, and there is little motivation for most people > to go about the process. let's just say it is possible and leave it at that. Oh, okay. It's mystical. As for myself, I'd argue for trying to find contexts in which to think that are different from the usual contexts, since "usual" contexts are identifiable, and thus, when one thinks in other contexts, one can tell (at least for oneself). This is an idea I picked up from my old friend and teacher, Kenneth Gaburo, who by coincidence was also a composer of electronic music... -- Kirk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:24:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: ART/MUSIC/POWER Comments: To: MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU > none of the stylistic changes that took place in > the first millenia of written music can be traced to political power. But perhaps the choice of what to write down could be, at least very early on. It's hard not to see the church in the time of the crusades as a political body. Then there was the example of the Council of Trent, when Palastrina was around, where the church tried to edict "no complex polyphony" because the words couldn't be understood. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:57:26 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: George Allaman Subject: Re: new material In-Reply-To: Jon Morris and Michael Crowl: you guys are getting me inspired. I hate that! But if you're going to start poking around, stirring things up about how to market your stuff, I guess I'll have to put all mine together on a tape and do the same. So count me in. Maybe between us we can come up with a marketing strategy. Strength in numbers? My stuff is electronic but in more of an acoustic style since my first instrument was and is acoustic guitar. But until I can afford a fancy 8-channel machine, most of it stays midi. It's pretty mainstream/popular, I'm ashamed to say, not weird at all. But I like it. Basically I end up writing backgrounds for guitar and forgetting about the guitar. Some is instrumental but most is vocal, with thick textures when I can, but I only just bought a Vocalist II. If only I could quit my day job!! Send me a tape and I'll send you one back. Apt 11-303 6868 S. Ivy St. Englewood CO 80112 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |George Allaman | | |Tech Writer | | |Alternate: georgea@csn.net | | |---> New address as of 1/2/95: gallama@uswest.com <---| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Kontext-frei >On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Marshall Tuttle wrote: > >> > >there is such thing as context free thinking. it is difficult to >> > achieve, >> > >but possible. >> > >> > VIGOROUS AGREEMENT 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 EXTREME >> > SCEPTICISM >> > | | | | | | | | | | | >> > ^ >> > >> > If one *does* achieve context-free thinking, how does one know, >> >> a) most of the time no-one has a clue to what you are talking about > >Oh, like Ross Perot? :) > >> b) thoughts don't occur in any language > >Wittgenstein would protest, but that's another chapter. > >> c) ask your local neighborhood buddha >> d) take your brain out, smash it against the wall a few thousand times, >> throw it on the floor and jump on it for about ten years until it is >> unrecognizable and then put it back in your head. >> e) . ........ Hey folks didn't you detect more than a little bit of facetiousness in Marshall's remarks? Or is your thinking really so context-free that you detect such levels of meaning? In fact I'm hoping that the whole concept of "context-free thinking" was raised as a joke, because if it wasn't (and my reading of the context of the original remark seemed to indicate it was not) then western culture really and truly is in a downward spiral. And I single out western culture because I'm sure no other culture could have possibly come up with such a bizzarre idea. It'll be interesting when we try to force *this* idea on the other cultures of the world. Oy veh! //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon mgs2@cornell.edu \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:51:09 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Sample Rate Conversion EMUSIC-L: I'm mastering a project (a compilation tape for another music list) where the submissions are on DAT (48kHz), CD (44.1kHz), and cassette. I'd like to have the final product at 44.1kHz so I would need a sample rate converter. QUESTIONS: Has anybody on this list ever converted 48 to 44.1? How did it sound? Were there any bad audio artifacts? Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:07:29 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: D4 Eric said: > 2) i have two D4s, and love them. while the roland has these > really nifty pads, and a good sound pallette, the D4 is > inexpensive, compact, has more 'acoustic' sounding timbres, > multiple trigger-ins which make it an ideal drum-replacement > module (for those really ratty mixes that could use a little > sprucing up, as well as for allowing quick-and-dirty percussive > midi interface construction), and nothing else that i don't need, > like a performance interface or internal sequencer. I hope this isn't too gear-headish... (Please forgive me if it is.) Aren't those trigger inputs considered a performance interface? Just out of curiosity, why would one need two D4s? I imagine two responses: (1) Need for more than the twelve trigger inputs one unit provides. (2) Need for more polyphony than one unit can provide. If not 1 or 2 above, then what? In any case, I'd like to hear about what you're doing that requires two D4s. (I'd like to HEAR what you're doing, too!) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com