========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Alex Kharlamov Subject: Re: Cubase >Does anyone of you maillist subscribers out there know if there's a >possibility to put samples into Cubase arrangements and play them within >the arrangement? >I'm using Cubase version 2.60 for Win3.1. Cubase [Score?] ver 2.0 or above (CD version with waveplayer) does it. You can order it directly from Steinberg for about $150. AlexK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:52 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "J. Rossi" Subject: Amiga and DOS format Hi, I'm going to use an Amiga to hook my X3 tp for a while so that my Mac can get repaired. The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast ? Can it be both DD and HD ? Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ? What site would have it ? TIA Francois Rossi jr10@le.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:27:08 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: The music I like is.... In response to a thread that started on SYNTH-L, Harry said to David: > I first heard of _Nightnoise_ on ATC, and purchased an album based on that. > BTW, the record store had cubbyholed them under "New Age" along with Eno > and Shadowfax. Not a very accurate appelation in my opinion. Just what > the Hell is this "new age" I've been hearing about, anyway???? When is it > coming? Is it here? If it is, am I expected to listen to that genre, as > amorphous as it seems to be? Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George > Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each, > simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times! (Sounds like this conversation could spill over onto space-music, too!) Just this week, I asked a local shop keeper what the chances would be of separating space music out from the new age bin into its own category. Basically, he doesn't want to waste the space on such a narrow category. New Age seems to be the catch-all category for stuff that isn't rock, R&B, gospel, country, classical, jazz, techno (dance), pop, soundtracks & broadway, comedy, and used. It's sort of a pet peeve with me that I have to look for electronic music in the new age bin but at least I know where to look. Unfortunately, shop owners have non-musical influences that make them do crazy things. So do I, as a matter of fact. I spend one third of my life at a job that butters my bread and pays for music-stuff instead of spending that amount of time to use music-stuff. Go figure! ;-} Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:36:35 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David John Rosborough Subject: Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread) In-Reply-To: <01BAEFDF.03DBEC80@ou90611.90.deere.com> from "Brian C. Czernik" at Jan 31, 96 01:21:19 pm > While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told tha= > t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) are= > actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It w= > ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would me= Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects... I've had an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too! I've NEVER had a problem with data reliability. I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true... TTYL DaveR ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:33:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Aaron Gore Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE ME ****************************************************************************** ***********************UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM THE LIST PLEASE!************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Rik Kwan. Hello- I'm a beginning MIDI/electronic" Subject: remove from list Please remove me from your mailing list. Thank you. Rikkwan@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:12:02 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kalle Salminen Subject: unsubscribe Please remove me from the list. (unsubscribe Kalle Salminen mesaka@tit.fi) K.S. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:28:05 PDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fred MoTTe Subject: Re: Amiga and DOS format >I'm going to use an Amiga to hook my X3 tp for a while so that >my Mac can get repaired. >The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast ? >Can it be both DD and HD ? Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ? >What site would have it ? It depends what kind of Amiga you'll be using. With an Amiga 500 with OS under 2.0, you'll have to use a specific program like Crossdos, or Multidos (should be available on any aminet site). With an Amiga 600, 1200, 3000 or 4000, MSDOS disk format is included in the system. You just have to mount it ( mount PC0: ). Not that only the 4000 will allow you to read HD disks. Fred. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:47:20 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Edward Plant Subject: Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread) >> While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told tha= >> t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) are= >> actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It w= >> ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would me= > >Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects... I've had >an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the >years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried >to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too! I've NEVER >had a problem with data reliability. > >I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true... > Just to show there is always another side to any story.... My personal experience with Syquest cartridges goes back about 6 years and is not good. In my business we deal with removeable media frequently for storing sensitive information that has to be locked up in a safe at night. On jobs I worked on from about 1990 through 1994, I was going through one 44MB (I think) Syquest cartridge about every two months. It would just be a case where the cartridge would decide not to spin up one morning, forever. Everyone had their own theory on why they crashed so often, and of course some really interesting ideas on how to take care of them, like never turning it sideways when you carried it down the hall... but the one thing we all did was make backups religiously of important files to floppies! Now, in fairness, we used these cartridges as primary storage media on a daily basis, and they were removed and handled frequently. This is probably not the way they are best used. Edward egp@ideas.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:32:08 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Brian C. Czernik" Subject: Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread) Actually, it isn't a rumor. I read in MacWeek that, in fact, EZ Drives do= use rejected hard drives. That doesn't mean there bad, just not up to ha= rd drive expectations (SONY sells its inferior 1.4M disks to other compan= ies sell them under other brands). I am not sure whether the same is true= with the old 44/88M disks though. ---------- From: David John Rosborough[SMTP:drosboro@SFU.CA] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 1996 10:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L Subject: Re: FW: Removable media for HD recording (old thread) > While Syqu*st might guarantee disks for xx amount of time, I was told t= ha=3D > t the disks (for the *Z drive and the old Syqu*sts--44,88,105, 250mb) a= re=3D > actually rejected REAL hard drives (although I can't confirm that). It= w=3D > ould be consistent with my understanding of the technology. That would = me=3D Well, if they are, then they are remarkably reliable rejects... I've had= an old 44MB Syquest for years, with loads of cartridges... In all the years I've had it, I've only had one disk die, and that's because I tried= to eject it before it spun down... and more than once, too! I've NEVER had a problem with data reliability. I seriously doubt that this rumour is really true... TTYL DaveR ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:00:27 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dale E Newton Subject: Amiga and DOS format In-Reply-To: <199602020600.BAA56741@atlanta.american.edu> (message from Automatic digest processor on Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:00:30 -0500) > The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast [Amiga]? > Can it be both DD and HD ? Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ? If you run AmigaDOS 2.* or later, yes, you can read/write/format MSDOS formatted disks with the included CrossDOS utility. It will read both DD and HD disks. If you are serious about running MSDOS on the Amiga there are two very solid PC emulations, PC-Task and e586dx for the Emplant card. These are "fully" compatible PC emulations. The Emplant card will also provide full Mac emulation(s) as well. As for accessing the most comprehensive PD software for the Amiga, check wuarchive.wustl.edu:/pub/aminet. Good luck. * Dale E. Newton newton@stolaf.edu * * 2636 Fremont Ave. S. #105 * * Minneapolis, MN 55408 (612)374-4160 (voice) * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:48:57 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jesse Lackey Subject: this may be a dumb MIDI question... ...but I thought I'd ask it anyway. :^) I know next to nothing about midi, but a friend of mine with a borrowed very nice keyboard (K2000 I think) and I want to compose some techno/ambient stuff. We also have an ancient sampler, but without much memory. I have a 486/100 w/win95, 16Mb, and one of those midi-to-gameport boxes (never used). o.k. now here's the question. (finally!) Is it possible to use the PC as a sample-playback box. i.e. a note message comes in via MIDI, and that triggers the playing of an already-loaded .wav file thru my soundblaster (or za-1 spdif card). Seems like that would be pretty easy to do. Perfoming stuff like variable-volume and variable-speed playback, and more than 2 simultaneously would certainly be tricky. Ignore that for now. The way I see it, on a 16Mb machine I should have 8-10Mb avail for samples (~5Mb for win95, 1 Mb for the disk cacher - I set it to be 1Mb only, and ~1Mb for the program+soundcard buffers). I could get two samples playing simultaneously (one on L channel, one on on R) or a single stereo sample. And it would be supercheap - I have all the hw I need already. With say 8Mb free, that's 102 seconds of mono-16bit-44.1Khz audio. Perfect for having a small number of longish samples. Does sw to do this exist? I am actually thinking of writing something, I have written a waveIn -> harddisk recorder that works great, so I'm somewhat familiar with manipulating soundcards. But I don't know anything about the MIDI stuff and would rather just get something already out there. Thanks in advance for any info! Jesse -- jesse lackey - jesse@eye.com - 3d/eye, ithaca, ny | I don't speak for 3d/eye! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:54:21 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Re[2]: what kind of music I like Hi Harry, a few thoughts about cubbyholing... > Another reason I haven't [sent demos to RCA or Warner Bros.] is that I'm > scared poopyless. I don't own a digital multitrack, just a Yamaha MT-120, Since when did music technology ultimately determine artstic worth? Sorry, stupid question. The answer is frequently, anmd I doubt very much whether RCA or WB, at least as corporate entities, are very interested in artistic worth! > >(1) Helps the listener to remember it by association; > > Hmm. That is true when looking in a record store for a particular album, > but not always. [...] > The problem seems to be one of the size of the cubbyhole imposed by > whoever is in charge of such things. Sure. Well I never claimed that everybody cubbyholes in the most appropriate or insightful way. But people make (and have) associations of different kinds, some of which might not occur to us. That includes record store merchandisers. Maybe in a particular record store frequented by people who wouldn't know much about particular musics (one catering to a specific clientele), it makles sense to put Nightnoise next to George Winston (or what ever combination you were bemoaning). I don't agree with _this_ cubbyhopling either. I suspect that record store people, like record companies, make such mistakes because they don't listen to the music! > I picked up a so-called "Ambient Compilation" CD the other day Well, as you say... > Music, like language, evolves Well, language evolves. Actually, in this case, i think it's a case of the dance music folks adopting a term without thiking about it or its previous musical associations (and perhaps they wouldn't care about that anyway). Techno and techno-like music is described using many terms: techno, house, acid house, garage, ambient.... the list goes on. Now, some on this list might wish to take issue with this and explain the differences between all of these. That would be welcome, since no one has yet managed to explain this to me! But, let's face it, the differences between any two of these is much less than, say, the difference between Classical (like a Beethoven symphony) and Chicago Blues. Is that an unfair comparison? Perhaps, but those genres have different names, just as all the varieties of current dance music have. Remember, what we know about Classical or blues we know because of the music _not_ the label applied to it. That is, the names in themselves tell us nothig about the music. It is by association and previous cubbyholing that when we hear someone say 'classical' we have an idea of what he or she is talking about. Our guesses might be incorrect since language is always subject to negotiation, but I wouldn't go far as far as the deconstructionists and hip lit-critters! To sum up the absurdity of claims of originality for finely graded differences in dance music (and I referred to this is my comments about spotty British youths in popular music mags), I put to you a comment by a local public radio station announcer a few years ago. "This track's a little housey, a little ambient, a little techno..." Given the relative closeness of these, who could tell even if they were blended!? (If anyone disagrees, by all means say so. As I said, I want an explanation of all these terms, and their differences.) > the record store had cubbyholed [Nightnoise] under "New Age" Well, they used to be on Windham Hill, pedlars of New Age music. The comments about dance music above might apply to New Age too. Perhaps the different styles are relatively less different than fans might think, so that most people would judge a piece of music to be New Age based on features they find similar to other music described as New Age. (You know, 'newage' -- rhymes with sewage ;-) ) This reminds me of a local artist David Chesworth who writes quite varied and quirky ensemble music. He released a record and said in all the interviews afterwards, "My music is not New Age". Well, Dave, you have to admit that your credibility would be greater if you hadn't released it on a label with a name like Celestial Harmonies! (it wasn't that company, but the name was similar -- whoops! I've just cubbyholed a reocrd company!) > Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George > Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each, > simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times! Anyone who puts George Winston near anyone or anything.... Poor man's Keith Jarrett! > Tell you what, man, we'll exchange tapes, if you want...just send your > address directly to me and I'll reciprocate. Sure. If you want to hear a white Australian playing traditional Ghanaian music! (I'm not a composer!) Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:19:07 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: cubbyholing >>Not a very accurate appelation in my opinion. Sorry, y'all-- I meant "appellation" Bill says: >Just this week, I asked a local shop keeper what the chances would be of >separating space music out from the new age bin into its own category. >Basically, he doesn't want to waste the space on such a narrow category. Man, I'm glad I'm not alone in this. At first I thought I was going out on a limb with my rant (rave?) Sounds like a poor excuse to me, since the divider card takes up only a few millimeters, and I can't believe there's enough space music artists represented in your store to warrant alphabet cards, too. Maybe I'm a bit loony, but how about a record store experiment: get rid of ALL the categories and just alphabetize by artist's name...Eno next to Elgar, Mojo Nixon next to Monteverdi. Gosh, just think of the varied conversations you'd potentially get between the various kinds of "long hairs!" David says: >Since when did music technology ultimately determine artstic worth? >Sorry, stupid question. The answer is frequently, anmd I doubt very >much whether RCA or WB, at least as corporate entities, are very >interested in artistic worth! Ooohh...tsssstt! BURN!! OWWW!!! (I wish I could send real sound effects of a record company exec being tortured with a well-lit Cuban cigar =:0 ) Heh, heh, heh. But I see what you're saying... and you're correct: if I were *truly* good, I would canvas ALL labels big and small with my hissy demos and devil-may-care if I get a contract or not! I should be doing that just so I can say that I was turned down 50 times-- it's much more honest than bad-mouthing big record labels when I didn't even give them a chance to scat on me. But really, I don't want to be wildly successful: it would automatically involve my having to deal with 100's of women wanting 48 MHz samples of my (ca 1970's) Springsteen-like body ;^| >I suspect that record store people, like record companies, make such >mistakes because they don't listen to the music! Yes, I guess with so much music floating around, larger stores (esp. in smaller towns) can't consistently hire knowledgeable people who would know, for example, that Eno's _Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)_ shouldn't be in the same bin with _Ambient 4- On Land._ Damn, I hate to keep picking on Professor Eno (as some people would moniker him), but he's a great example of someone who's musically crossed over into several genre's, including ambient (_Shutov Assembly_), pop ("The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and "You Don't Miss Your Water"), dance ("Fractal Zoom"), new age ("Always Returning"-- with Roger Eno), and experimental (_My Life in the Bush of Ghosts_-- with David Byrne). >> Music, like language, evolves >Well, language evolves. Uh, you don't think that music evolves? >Actually, in this case, i think it's a case of the dance music folks >adopting a term without thiking about it or its previous musical >associations (and perhaps they wouldn't care about that anyway). >Techno and techno-like music is described using many terms: techno, house, >acid house, garage, ambient.... the list goes on. Didn't the dance music evolve so much that people "in the know" realized that they shouldn't put techno with trance, or gabber (what IS that, anyway?) with disco? Like the fine gradations of Australian wine...you can't put a Bumbliwa Chablis with an Alice Springs Burgundy, for goodness sake! But really, I'm ignorant of popular dance forms: I'm not one to decide when/if a new term is really needed to describe it. >Now, some on this list might wish to take issue with this and explain the >differences between all of these. That would be welcome, since no one has >yet managed to explain this to me! I think Joe tried last year when the subject last came up...from reading his posts for the last three years I get the impression he's one to attend three-day XTC raves. :-) >But, let's face it, the differences between any two of these >is much less than, say, the difference between Classical (like a Beethoven >symphony) and Chicago Blues. Is that an unfair comparison? ...and you'd never find a record store that would separate Chicago blues from Mississippi Delta blues from New Orleans blues from Memphis blues...although a blues afficianado could tell them apart in an instant. The record store would just lump them all together in the same bin. BTW, the New Orleans' Tower Records is really good. If anyone reading this is planning to go to the Crescent City for Mardi Gras, check it out! >what we know about Classical or blues we know because of the music _not_ >the label applied to it. That is, the names in themselves tell us nothig >about the music. It is by association and previous cubbyholing that when >we hear someone say 'classical' we have an idea of what he or she is >talking about. Right, again. Here's a trick question: do you have to be dead to have written "Classical" music? >I put to you a comment by a local public radio station announcer a few years >ago: >"This track's a little housey, a little ambient, a little techno..." So, when I copy that style, I'll call it "hambino" and get my _own_ bin at Camelot Records... >(You know, 'newage' -- rhymes with sewage ;-) ) Is that a quote from a previous Harry-post? A friend first told me that back in 1985! Wish I could easily send you a sample of how he pronounced Whhhindham Hilll, with his eyes rolled back in his head, falling into a hypnotic trance. >I've just cubbyholed a reocrd company! No crime in that! They do it themselves all the time! >> Anyone who puts Eno/Cale near friggin' George >> Winston in the record store should be forced to listen to each, >> simultaneously, one in each ear, until they scream "Gaia!!" googol times! >Anyone who puts George Winston near anyone or anything.... >Poor man's Keith Jarrett! Love it! Have to remember that one! I was dragged to a Winston concert last year in Lafayette, Louisiana. His repetitive, jackhammer style at the piano annoyed me greatly, to say the least. However, his slack-key guitar music was pretty good...keeping in mind that I don't know beans about Hawaiian guitar music. Maybe he's considered to be heavy-handed on that, too. >Sure. If you want to hear a white Australian playing traditional Ghanaian >music! (I'm not a composer!) Yeah! I was intrigued by that ever since the "Ethnic Piracy" thread. Later, Harry haeckerh@nwrc.gov ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:27:41 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jos Theelen Subject: Re: this may be a dumb MIDI question... >Is it possible to use the PC as a sample-playback box. i.e. a note message >comes in via MIDI, and that triggers the playing of an already-loaded .wav >file thru my soundblaster (or za-1 spdif card). Seems like that would be >pretty easy to do. Perfoming stuff like variable-volume and variable-speed >playback, and more than 2 simultaneously would certainly be tricky. Ignore >that for now. One of the possibilities is buying a wavetablecard (AWE32, Turtle Beach MAUI or others, about $300, I think). With a wavetable you can put small pieces of your wave-files in the wavetable. The wavetable acts like a synthesizer. But instead of playing a string or playing a snaredrum, it can play the waves, you put in the wave- table. In this case you combine waves and MIDI in your setup. You have variable-speed and volume with this, because that varies with the MIDI-signals the wavetable-card recieves (note/velocity). But when you buy a wavetable, be sure you can put your own waves in them. Most wavetables have their own waves (to make it a General MIDI synthesizer) but not all of them can handle "userwaves". And if you want to use many own waves, you have to buy additional memory for the wavetable. If you want to do it only with software, I wish you much luck. It's not so difficult to write a program that playes waves at variable- speed or volume, but making music through MIDI is much harder, I think. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:22:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Art T. User" Subject: Re: this may be a dumb MIDI question... Try Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Software..its the best Midiware for The PC. Regards and Good Luck ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:15:52 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Morris Subject: Re: cubbyholing In-Reply-To: <9601038233.AA823389560@osprey.nwrc.gov> from "harry haecker" at Feb 3, 96 03:19:07 pm > > Maybe I'm a bit loony, but how about a record store experiment: get rid > of ALL the categories and just alphabetize by artist's name...Eno next to > Elgar, Mojo Nixon next to Monteverdi. Gosh, just think of the varied > conversations you'd potentially get between the various kinds of "long > hairs!" Here in Austin, Texas, there is such a store. It's called "Waterloo Records" and it's locally owned. You can also listen to anything in stock. I guess I'm a little spoiled by that. They're "space music" selection is ok, not great. Anyway, as far as the big alphbetical soup goes, I think the system works. Plus it's much more fun to browse all categories of music at once (their classical selection is not too impressive, but I think a big classical inventory might make the system a little cumbersome). I don't think I've ever gone there and not bought anything. > if I > were *truly* good, I would canvas ALL labels big and small with my hissy > demos and devil-may-care if I get a contract or not! > I just sent a 4track demo to about 15 indie labels - no contract, but by sticking with the small labels, I was able to get feedback from most of them. I was surprised that so many people actually listened to it. During that process, A&R people at those labels suggested others, who suggested others, etc... Most of them didn't mind the hissy tape. > I should be doing that just so I can say that I was turned down 50 times-- > it's much more honest than bad-mouthing big record labels when I didn't > even give them a chance to scat on me. Most of the big labels won't listen to any unsolicited tapes, regardless of production quality. Most major label signings happen after an artist has been with an indie for a while, and has been able to generate some sales. -Jon jonmor@moontower.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:44:28 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David W. Dial" Subject: Re: Amiga and DOS format >The question is: how do you read DOS formatted disks on that beast [Amiga]? >Can it be both DD and HD ? Is there a shareware/freeware I can use ? >What site would have it ? The Amiga format is different from the PC format. The PC has the boot block and the start of the directory on Track 0. The Amiga has the boot block on Track 0 and the directory on Track 40. The PC double density format is 720K and the Amiga double density format is 880K. The PC high density format is 1.44M and the Amiga high density format is 1.76M. However, the Amiga HD format and drive were introduced only within a year of Commodore's bankruptcy in April 1994 and didn't have a chance to sell many units. With the help of appropriate software, Amigas can read double density 720K disks. Unfortunately, these were never very popular. Only the most recent Amigas made since mid-1993 have drives that can read high density disks. The only programs I've personally used to read PC 720K disks were commercial programs. One is Cross DOS, which I believe is made by Central Coast Software. Project D is a general utility program which will allow you to read several different formats on the Amiga. There may be public domain software available that will allow you to read 720K PC disks. Try one of the big Amiga sites. Unless you're lucky enough to have one of the recent HD drives, you're out of luck on that account. Dave Dial ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:58:21 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Admin FAQs V1.3 (New Issue) Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Warning: Long Document (384 lines, 3077 words, about 6 pages)-------------- EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Administration This document is posted approximately every four weeks. It is intended that this document should answer many of the questions asked by newcomers to the lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin Russ, at: mruss@midi.dungeon.com This is Issue 1.3. 4 February 1996. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changes since issue 1.2.: - Notes on multiple and long messages (messages, 2/3) - Notes on message rejection (messages, 2/3) - Moved Max, Soundcards and Music Mailing Lists topics to General FAQ TOPIC INDEX**************************************************************** - Background - Messages - Subscriptions etc BACKGROUND***************************************************************** "What are the EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L lists for?"***************************** EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are for the discussion of electronic music in general: its history, practitioners past and present, equipment, techniques, trends, research, development, resources, you name it. They exist as a 'post-moderated' alternative to the rec.music.makers.synth newsgroup. (post-moderated means that the moderators monitor what is posted, and sometimes remind posters about the 'rules': see below for the 'rules'). A digest is also available for each list. This collects all the postings for a day into one e-mailing. "Who are the moderators?"************************************************** Joe McMahon and Mike Metlay have been on here for over seven years. Their aim is to keep the mail flowing and the illegal and blatantly out-of-line traffic to a minimum. Joe can be contacted at: mcmahon@clark.net Mike can be contacted at: atomic@netcom.com "So, can I post anything I feel like?"************************************* Well, no. There are some RULES. The basic thrust of EMUSIC-L is to provide a forum for the discussion of music made by electronic means. The actual means is secondary (and more the subject of SYNTH-L). What we are concerned with on EMUSIC-L is the music, composing, and related topics. Therefore: 1) Ads are not permitted on EMUSIC-L. Advising someone as to whether they are getting ripped off *if they ask the list* is permissible; otherwise, use private mail. Requests for addresses of mail-order firms, etc. are OK. Cutting deals on your own personal equipment is not OK. Please do it privately, or subscribe to SYNTH-L, where you'll reach a more responsive audience. Requests for advice as to whether a price is good or not are marginally OK, but would probably reach a more knowledgeable audience on SYNTH-L. Prices really aren't so much of interest unless either the entire world (literally) should know about this great deal, or you have inside information on a new product or upgrade. Exception: if someone has gone through the trouble of composing, recording, and pressing a CD or tape, submitting an article describing the process and their experiences and mentioning that the tape or CD is available for purchase is OK. Posting repeated ads for the CD is not. (A single mention is marginally acceptable; a short mention in a signature file is fine.) Here's a quick summary (it goes from 'admirable' to 'not acceptable'): - A ONE-TIME post mentioning that you have completed a CD or tape and a summary of experiences/etc. in making the recording is admirable. - An article which contributes to the discussion on the list AND contains a signature file which mentions CD/tape/album availability is acceptable. - Repeated postings saying nothing but "My recording is available" are bad. - Outright ads for records you did not make, hardware, software, used cars, etc. are very bad. 2) Discussions as to the relative merits of hardware/software/etc. are permissible, as long as the reviewers state evidence supporting their opinions. Ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated. Arguments based solely on personal taste are not acceptable. It is preferable to request private mailings, which you can summarize and post back to the list. Reviews are useful. Mutual admiration societies are not. 3) All members *will* be treated with kindness and respect. There is no such thing as a dumb question on this list. If you can answer, answer, and be nice about it. Otherwise, say nothing. If you've got a problem with what someone has had to say, discuss it in a civil manner. If you can't do that, take it to e-mail, or just forget about it. 4) EMUSIC-L is meant to be for the discussion of electronic music, in the studio, the classroom, in performance, and on recordings, including techniques, resources, user reviews and experiences, and speculation on futures. Some divagations will be tolerated, as it's rather nice to have a little humor on the list; however, the list owner(s) (Joe McMahon at the moment) will maintain the final say as to the subject matter on the list and will move to terminate off-topic, pointless, and (especially) rancorous discussions. 5) Please refrain from adding to the noise level by commenting about accidental private posts to the list or the accidental sendings of SUBSCRIBE requests or suchlike to the list. That is the administrators' job. If you must pour out your wounded feelings ;-), either to Joe, or to the offender, use private mail. 6) The listowner(s) are permitted to be as arbitrary as they please. We have only once had to take action against a member of the list for breaking these rules, even when they hadn't been stated explicitly. We will notify offenders via private mail and will wait for a response. But we don't have time to play Politeness and Germaneness Monitors. We will remove users from the list only if we must, and we always give people the benefit of the doubt when possible. But be assured that we will act to preserve the quality of discussion on this list. "How did EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L start?"************************************** Perhaps a bit of ancient history is in order here, to show where these lists come from and why they are the way they are.... Many moons ago, when there was for all practical purposes no such thing as the Internet (and there were certainly few or no commercial online services), people had access to cyberspace only through a set of large but mutually exclusive network protocols, generally provided by and germane to their place of education or work. One of these was the USENET hierarchy of UNIX machines at universities and laboratories and a few commercial sites; another was BITNET, an international mail system for mainframe computers used by scientists. Communication between the two systems was possible only in a crude and roundabout manner, so they developed separate systems for dealing with the same needs. In a rough, very general sense, USENET developed the news hierarchy and BITNET developed list servers and mailing lists; in the subfield of electronic music, USENET had the once-quite-small newsgroup rec.music.synth and BITNET had EMUSIC-L. The 'feel' of these groups was in concert with the sort of people using them; rec.music.synth was more open, with college students and commercial users, whereas EMUSIC-L tended toward academic users. This tended to shape the level of discussion and the topics covered, but keep in mind that early on, the overlap between the two groups was relatively small. Some time later, as reliable gateways between BITNET and the rest of the growing Internet allowed for the redistribution of newsgroups as mailing lists, SYNTH-L was launched as a gateway of rec.music.synth posts, so BITNET users without USENET access could enjoy the news there. It was a short, hard-learned lesson; the lack of moderation and the huge number of news articles delivered as email (!) knocked many prospective users for a loop. It wasn't all that long before the USENET feed was cut and the gateways to the news hierarchy were removed, isolating SYNTH-L and effectively removing its reason for existence. At that point, with Joe's blessing, Mike stepped in as conceptual 'parent' of SYNTH-L, and began to promote it as a nice middle ground between EMUSIC-L's often rarified discussions and the daily mayhem on rec.music.synth (now rec.music.makers.s). It was semi-moderated, so postings stayed (by and large) polite and focussed, but long discussions of gear, software, technical problems, and so forth that were considered a waste of time by many EMUSIC-L readers were encouraged, and over the years since then a de facto division between the two groups, and a healthy relationship, has settled into place. It's true that the divisions between topics for the two groups are occasionally blurry, but that's something most folks simply learn to live with and get a feel for. "Is SYNTH-L supposed to be technical discussion of synthesizers?"********** "Does EMUSIC-L cover electronic music in general?"************************* Very roughly, SYNTH-L is for the detailed technical talk, like gear for sale, where to download patches, whether synth A is better than synth B (whatever 'better' means), technical problems and solutions, and so on. SYNTH-L is the stuff that people on EMUSIC-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss electronic music. Conversely, EMUSIC-L is for all the serious (and sometimes not so serious) philosophical discussion on electronic music in its widest sense. EMUSIC-L is the stuff that people on SYNTH-L don't want to have to wade through to discuss gear. In both cases, one could say that this sort of discussion has its place, but people sometimes like to see it, and sometimes don't. All the EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L division purports to do is allow an approximate separation between the snobs and the plebs. Where people take that is up to them. It's true that there seems to be no set focus or set of aims in these lists. That's deliberate. We are like-minded individuals looking for someone intelligent and knowledgeable to talk to, and the topics range all over the place, as well they should in such a forum. One shouldn't expect any kind of focus in an environment where anything is a potential topic for discussion. "What's the point? It's not what I expected!"****************************** The point is that we don't want you to have unreasonable expectations of what EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are 'for'; they are what they are, and most people seem content to enjoy them as they are or guide them elsewhere, either for a while or for good... A good starting point for finding out what the electronic music of EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L is all about is the EMUSIC-L World Wide Web page at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. MESSAGES******************************************************************* 'What about multiple and long posts?'************************************** MULTIPLE POSTS / CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENTS AND OTHER LENGTHY POSTS EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L are delivered to many different types of mailboxes. While many of our readers have plenty of spool file space at their host machines and a lot of leisure time to delete unwanted mail, there are others who must download their mail via modem, often at low speeds while paying for connect time. For this reason, we discourage multiple postings of the same message, and ask that list members clear very long posts (over, say, 2000 lines) with the Co-Moderators before sending them along. While we do not have time to moderate every message to EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L, we have no objection to scanning the occasional conference announcement or product profile for suitability, and would prefer to do so rather than see our readers suffer problems from lengthy files whose place on our lists may not be appropriate. One other note: keep in mind that the default behavior for the List Server is NOT to echo a copy of your post back to you. Posting the same announcement multiple times "just to make sure it's getting out" is wasteful and rude. If there has been no response to your post after three to five days, a followup message asking if the post got out, _along with a careful restatement of the original question,_ is probably okay. But there does exist the possibility that your question has gone unanswered because no one on the lists has the information you need. There's no guarantee that we can answer any question here, and we cannot force those who do have answers to also have an interest in providing them. As in so many areas of netiquette, let common sense be your guide in handling these posts. Being flamed for announcing a concert or conference, or for asking a reasonable question, is uncalled for. Being flamed for announcing the same event five times in an automailer, or for asking a question no one cares about ten times in a row in ever more strident tones, is to be expected. "Should I respond to a message on the list?"******************************* The whole point of this list is that we attract people who are smart enough to make these decisions for themselves, and do. You can be one of them, if you let yourself. Think and decide for yourself, make mistakes, correct them, learn, move on, and enjoy the trip. Or, if you're paralyzed by fear of doing or saying something wrong, you can choose to lurk forever. Please also read the "So, can I post anything I feel like?" 'Rules' section of this document before posting anything to the list. "How do I send a message to the list?"************************************* For EMUSIC-L, you send your posting to emusic-l@american.edu. It will be automatically sent to all of the other subscribers. You will not receive a copy of your own mail; LISTSERV does this to decrease mail traffic. For SYNTH-L, you send your posting to synth-l@american.edu. "Why did my posting get rejected?"***************************************** Postings to the list may be rejected for a number of reasons, most of them having to do with keeping unrelated material off the list, and keeping traffic to a reasonable level. If you are not subscribed to the list, you will not be able to post to it. Thes keeps random advertisers who are not members of the list from posting to it, and cuts down on mass crosspostings as well. If you really need to talk to the members of the lists, you'll have to make the commitment to read them for at least the amount of time that it takes to get your answer. Note that the listowners will frown on subscribing, posting, and unsubscribing in a very short period, especially if the material posted turns out to be unrelated to the list, or otherwise inappropriate. Postings more than 400 lines long (about 32K of text) will be rejected as well. This was instituted to stop things like errors resulting in massive postings to the list, and pranksters who uuencode core dumps and send them, attempting to overload the server and its customers. Such items will be returned to sender. "Where is the archive of FAQs kept?"*************************************** This is a new document (as of May 1995). As the maintainer adds new questions this document will be revised, and some questions and answers may be removed. You will be able to ftp previous FAQ files from the Internet. SUBSCRIPTIONS************************************************************** "How do I unsubscribe?"**************************************************** For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB SYNTH-L as the body. Again, no special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) directly. Do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). "How do I subscribe?"****************************************************** To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail message to listserv@american.edu with the text SUB EMUSIC-L where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the other list members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. "How do I subscribe to the daily digest?"********************************** If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST where "" should be replaced by your first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Note that these two commands should be on separate lines: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST so that the listserv will interpret them correctly. Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the otherlist members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. "How do I unsubscribe from the full list and subscribe to the digest?"***** If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L instead of the message-by-message form, just send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST You will then get one message per day, which consists of a list of topics, followed by all the messages which have been posted in the previous 24 hours. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. AOL subscribers may experience some problems in changing their subscription details via the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot change to a digest then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). Contributors:************************************************************** Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Ned Kartchner, Clive McFarland and others --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:59:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gerry Pawluk Subject: Mixer to ??? i am a guitar player off from an 8 year hiatus and am amazed at the electronic developments. i currently have a Roland GP-100 and a BOSS DR5, a Mackie 1202 VLZ Mixer and a 486 PC and am looking at the options for the next step on the way to recording to a Harmon Kardon casette deck via multi-tracking. i am looking for equipment-compatable suggestions for the following: Sequencing : Sequencer (Roland recommends their MC-500 MKII or MC-50 MKII) vs PC software Mastering : 4-track recorder + recording processors (ie reverb unit, gate units ) vs PC software cash-flow is also a factor thanks in advance for suggestions received. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:52:48 +0000 Reply-To: cdurnal@staff.lib.ukans.edu Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chet Durnal Organization: University of Kansas Libraries Subject: Two Questions Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu First, is it possible to convert a Mac sound file to a midi file? I can convert midi to sound. Second, I am looking for a midi file of the theme to the movie Sophie's Choice. I would appreciate any assistance with these questions. Thanks. Chet Durnal University of Kansas Libraries CDurnal@staff.lib.cc.ukans.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:27:50 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Voyetra Recently (within the past 4 or 5 days) someone on this list posted a note singing the praises of Voyetra's MIDI Sequencer Plus, or something like that. Unfortunately I deleted the message and I don't know who sent the original post. Anyway, I have been thinking of ordering their newer product, "Digital Orchestrator Plus." Has anyone on the list yet seen this product? Does it work as well as the MIDI Sequencer (allegedly) does. I have never used any of their software before. Any answers appreciated. Thank you. -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:12:07 +0000 Reply-To: cdurnal@staff.lib.ukans.edu Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chet Durnal Organization: University of Kansas Libraries Subject: Music Stand Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu I'm looking for a sheet music stand for my synth (Roland D10). I would like something I could attach in some way to the back of the keyboard. The standard music stand for music is too shakey. Roland does not make a stand for any of its keyboards. I would appreciate pointers to any company that might carry such items. Chet Durnal University of Kansas Libraries CDurnal@staff.lib.cc.ukans.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:19:41 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Greg Youngdahl Subject: Re: Voyetra Hi Pete, > Recently (within the past 4 or 5 days) someone on this list > posted a note singing the praises of Voyetra's MIDI Sequencer Plus, or > something like that. That wasn't me, but I do have a version of Voyetra's Sequencer Plus. It (at least the version I have) is a DOS version (if they ever made a Windows version they never let me know about it - either directly as a registered user, which I am, or through any kind of advertisement). Anyway, I found that the program was fairly stable, although I can only comment as a hobbiest user, I never put it through anything that I would consider heavy duty or "professional" use. I don't ever recall it just hanging on me (as some of the Windows sequencers I have tried have done - which may have as much to do with Windows as with the sequencers). I did use it with SMPTE sync as well as its internal clocking, and found both to work reliably. I still use it as one of my tools, although I do prefer noodling around with the PowerTrax Pro program in Windows when I'm just hacking around (because it just seems easier to figure out how to do what I want to do). Sequencer Plus does do things I can't do with PowerTrax (and vice versa), and that is why I still find myself using it. One thing I do think is that the commands and modes weren't all that intuitive to me (which might be *my* problem, but...), it seemed that some stuff was accessed with CTRL+key combinations, others by ALT+key combinations, and some as function keys with no real rhyme or reason that I could determine for using one or the other. One thing I could always do was to bring up a HELP page with F1 and then figure out how to get to what I wanted to do from there. I suppose if I used the program a lot more frequently I could remember such things. The thing I recall really messing me up had to do with the mouse. It seems that whatever track the mouse was over was the "current track", and so if you started recording it would record on that track (no clicking or other confirmation for changing tracks). Thus I often found myself recording over another track that I had a valuable take on because I had slightly bumped the mouse just before enabling record mode, which as I recall just erased the current track to allow you to record something new (at least in some mode or another). I lost a few good takes that way before I decided to abandon any mouse usage and just turn the mouse upside down whenever I used the program. If there was a way to have recovered those tracks I don't know what it is. > Any answers appreciated. Thank you. Well I guess it doesn't directly address Digital Orchestrator, but it is all I've got. Hope it helps. -- Greg Youngdahl Lucent Technologies Naperville, IL gregory.a.youngdahl@att.com