========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:51:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeremy Matthew Johnson Subject: Frequencies of Notes In-Reply-To: <960226161256.45921@FLO.ORG> from "NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG" at Feb 26, 96 04:12:56 pm Could someone provide me with a formula to produce the frequencies of the chromatic scale? I was sure it would be in one of my physics books somewhere, but wrong I was... I'd be very grateful. Thanks! Jeremy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 19:37:03 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: GARY LEE NELSON Subject: Re: Frequencies of Notes Try this: Freq = (2**(MK/12)+3)*(440/2**8.75) MK is the MIDI key number. MK can contain a fraction if you want to know the frequencies of microtuning. For exampl 60.5 is a quarter tone above middle C. Gary Lee Nelson Oberlin College ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:23:16 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Comments: To: "Electronic music \"gearhead\" list" Hi everybody! I just got some great news and some not so great news. A few film composers and directors who listened to my demo tape thought that the music sounded pretty good!!!!!!!!! (That would be the good news!) The bad news is that they unanimously agreed that the production (especially the synth orchestra) left something to be desired. So I guess its finally time to look into getting a (or a few) synths or samplers to do this orchestral stuff. Problem is, I'm on a really tight budget and I don't know what to get. I'm looking to get a relatively accurate orchestra sound. I currently own an M1 (which is a wonderful synth but none of my orchestral patches sound that good) and an Alesis S4 (It has a few good orchestral sounds but not too many). I'd love to keep what I have and find a way to make them make great sounds, but I've been looking for patches as haven't found anything too wonderful. Which brings me, finally, to the point (It's about time!!) What should I be looking at -- I know that synth/sampler taste is pretty subjective, but any suggestions would be helpful. Should I get a couple of Proteus 2s? How do they sound? A JV-1080 with the orchestral card? Is synthesis not the way to go? If I should think about a sampler, then what? The K2000 rack? Akai sampler? Emu-ESI-32? How are their sounds? How are their learning curves? How available are samples (and how expensive)? Why are the Akai and Emu samplers so much cheaper than the K2000/2500? Are they inferior? What about the slightly older Roland 2-700 series? Price? learning curve? Quality? etc. Any input you can give will be most appreciated!!! Keep in mind that my budget is fairly limited (it looks like I"m also gonna have to buy a new multitrack - move up to an 8-track r-r b/c I can't afford an ADAT) Thank you so much for all of your help. -Craig ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:20:20 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Millard Subject: Re: The HUB Mike, I used to be a very active user of the Synth-L list. My identity at the time was RMILLARD@UTCVM.UTC.EDU. I have been off for so time because of events beyound my control. I have relocated my account and would like to be restored to the list. I do not remember how I oroginally signed on. Please help me out if you would be so kind. Life is just not the same when your in the dark. Michael@voyageronline.net See, I do still remember, do you? Michael@voyageronline.net If its dark are you really there? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:58:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Katz Subject: Re: Compression Good Job ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Katz Subject: Re: Re[2]: Compression See the DBX line ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 20:43:27 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marshall Tuttle Organization: Torii Station 30Gig online at 405-733-7083 Subject: Frequencies of notes > Could someone provide me with a formula to produce the frequencies > of the > chromatic scale? I was sure it would be in one of my physics books a = 440. all half steps are = 2^(1/12) thus Bb = 2^(1/12)*440. B = 2^(2/12)*440 Ab = 440/(2^(1/12)) etc. mt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 03:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeremy Matthew Johnson Subject: Re: Frequencies of notes In-Reply-To: <9603012043.0T43O00@torii.com> from "Marshall Tuttle" at Mar 1, 96 08:43:27 pm > > > Could someone provide me with a formula to produce the frequencies > > of the > > chromatic scale? I was sure it would be in one of my physics books > > a = 440. > > all half steps are = 2^(1/12) > > thus Bb = 2^(1/12)*440. > B = 2^(2/12)*440 > > Ab = 440/(2^(1/12)) > Gosh, I should have thought about the problem a little more. That's pretty logical. Thanks, Marshal, I appreciate it! Jeremy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 03:30:58 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeremy Matthew Johnson Subject: Re: Frequencies of Notes In-Reply-To: <01I1U3M7RM8I00CLBO@alpha.CC.OBERLIN.EDU> from "GARY LEE NELSON" at Mar 1, 96 07:37:03 pm > > Try this: > > Freq = (2**(MK/12)+3)*(440/2**8.75) > > MK is the MIDI key number. MK can contain a fraction if you want to > know the frequencies of microtuning. For exampl 60.5 is a quarter tone > above middle C. Thanks, Gary! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 14:50:28 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: GARY LEE NELSON Subject: Computer Music Workshops at Oberlin Comments: To: synth-l@american.edu Two Workshops in Electronic and Computer Music TIMARA Department Conservatory of Music Oberlin College July 14-21 & July 21-28 Gary Lee Nelson, Director The Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College invites you to participate in the 1995 workshops in electronic and computer music. We started these workshops in 1986 so this will be our eleventh year. Our students have ranged from high school age to retirees. We welcome people from other colleges. We also invite professionals, teachers, and hobbyists . These workshops are for anyone who wants to enrich their understanding of new music media. Daily lectures and demonstrations will introduce you to each topic. Supervised laboratories will guide you through hands-on experience with new technology. Listening and discussion sessions will expand your familiarity with the literature of electronic music. We will give special attention to the esthetic issues raised by this new way of making music. The workshops are progressive and focused on original composition. The program provides continuity with minimal overlap or repetition in the two weeks. Former students have benefited most by attending both weeks. If you enroll for only one week it must be the first week. In the second workshop we build on the skills you acquire in the first. The workshops are Macintosh based and the topics we cover include: sequencing (Vision, MusicShop, Performer) music printing (Finale) synthesizer programming (Galaxy) sampling (Sound Designer, Alchemy, TurboSynth, SoundHack) alternate MIDI controllers algorithmic composition (M, MAX) If you want a more detailed description have a look at the TIMARA WWW page under "Summer Workshop http://talbert3.con.oberlin.edu/dept/wrkshp.html If you want a brochure and registration forms or a description via email, send email to: ANNA_HOFFMANN@QMGATE.CC.OBERLIN.EDU or write directly to the address below. Office of Outreach Programs Conservatory of Music Oberlin College Oberlin, OH 44074 (216) 775-8044 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 09:58:19 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Hi All, You have a good start with your Korg and your S4. Keep them, because the only way to get anything close to the fatness and tone color variations of a live orchestra is too stack synths up from different makers, and layer them. No one synth or sampler is going to give the richness of a real orchestra. All you can do is to be orchestra like. The Ultra Proteus might be a good choice because its easy to edit patches on and has all the wonderful Z Plane filters. A used K2000 and a used Ultra Proteus would be a great combo and would also blend very well with your Korg and S4. I have found that stacking 4 synths for strings and then doubling the parts in each, say 4 parts doubled to 8, etc really gets a good orchestra sound. The tone colors of the different synths mix like the different tone colors of different players live instruments. Also the performance strengths of the different synths imiatate the different players skills. Some synths are better at fast passages, some at slow, some at plucked strings, some at bowed. On any given day in a live orchestra you have the different sounds and overtones of all the instruments, plus how the orchestra as a whole plays on that day. The 2 books Electronic Arranging by Peter Alexander and the one by Paul Gilreath, The Midi Guide to Orchestration can give you lots of ideas on how to arrange your parts so they sound more realistic. Only half of the job is what gear you are using. The other half is how you use it. John Williams still sounds good, even on the bottom end Sound Canvas, so does Debussy, Bach, etc. Happy Orchestration Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 20:02:21 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Comments: To: Electronic music gearhead list >The >bad news is that they unanimously agreed that the production (especially >the synth orchestra) left something to be desired. So I guess its finally >time to look into getting a (or a few) synths or samplers to do this >orchestral stuff. Hang on. I'm not sure what you're saying here. Did they criticise the basic sounds, the orchestration, or the production? A new synth or sampler doesn't fix #2 or #3, and both orchestration and production are complex skills, neither of which I'm very good at FWIW. Bear in mind also that the film composer's mentality seems (to me anyway) to revolve around HUGE libraries of sound (and soud gear), for working quickly (although how this comes about as a consequence is beyond me) and classical-sounding orchestral material, which seems to be a well-established fashion, Forbidden Planet notwithstanding. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL http://www.cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:11:28 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Computer Music bibliography There is a bibliography on synthesizers, midi, computer and electronic music that I have collected from various sources. I have tried to bring some structure into it, but not all books will fit into a single subject. NOTE: I haven't read these books, and the comments are from other people. The latest version of this file can be obtained by ftp from ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] in pub/MIDI/DOC/bibliography, on the WWW by http://www.cs.ruu.nl/pub/MIDI/DOC/bibliography or by e-mail from mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (send a message with HELP in the body). The latest monthly version is also available in the various news.answers archives around the world, in music/midi/bibliography. Version: $Id: bibliography,v 1.39 1996/02/05 14:36:15 piet Exp $ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 01:11:27 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Midi files/software archives on the Internet There is a list of ftp and mail server archives with MIDI documentation, programs and music on the Internet. Also enclosed is a list of MIDI and electronic music related mailing lists. The latest version of this file can be obtained by ftp from ftp.cs.ruu.nl [131.211.80.17] in pub/MIDI/DOC/archives, on the WWW by http://www.cs.ruu.nl/pub/MIDI/DOC/archives or by e-mail from mail-server@cs.ruu.nl (send a message with HELP in the body). The latest monthly version is also available in the various news.answers archives around the world, in music/midi/archives. Version: $Id: archives,v 1.156 1996/01/29 08:46:25 piet Exp $ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 10:31:03 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? >John Williams still sounds good, even on the bottom end >Sound Canvas, so does Debussy, Bach, etc. Coincidentally, just for the hell of it this morning I fetched a couple of MIDI files, some Albinoni and some Barber, and tried playing them back on the UltraProteus with some obvious choice of ROM patches. Sounded dreadful. I'm not convinced that anything remotely classically orchestral can ever be done via MIDI without a lot of attention paid to sophisticated voice programming (so scratch that Sound Canvas) and a lot of modulation. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL http://www.cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 09:25:37 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tony Cappellini Subject: Kraftwerk Does anybody know what Kraftwerk used for the speech synthesis in The Autobahn , and how did they get it to "talk" in time with the beat ? thanks tony ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:00:04 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Hi, Playing orchestration pieces on any midi module is just setting up the tracks properly vol and velocity wise. Usually one doesnt do any patch editing, except for doubling certain parts to get the balance right. And adjusting what octaves the parts are playing in. I have a couple of thousand classical midi files, including symphonies and a couple of hundred movie soundtracks. They all sound decent and a surprising number sound very good for an orchestra in a box. Its just knowing how to arrange to the strengths of the midi patches and whatever module you are using. Happy Orchestration Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:49:51 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dave Towler Subject: World Music I am currently interested in exploring ways in which technology can enhance an understanding and appreciation of World Music. My hope is to encourage student teachers to use any ideas to promote an understanding of non-Western music amongst their pupils, most of whom will not go on to be specialist musicians. If anyone out there can suggest leads I might follow I would be most grateful. If you judge that your reply might not be of general interest to the list then please E-mail direct at....D.Towler@roehampton.ac.uk Many thanks Dave Towler~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:20:42 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: World Music Hi Dave, I know you called for private mail, but I thought the list might be interested. How about using synths with user tunings to program non-Western tunings, such as the Javanese pelog or slendro? I don't know what these tunings are (besides being pentatonic and heptatonic respectively (I think!), but I'm sure you can find an ethnomusicological reference. How about programming African drumming rhythms into a sequencer? You could dedicate a track to an instrument and so mute and unmute tracks (instruments) to highlight timing relationships between parts. I think this would work for teaching Ghanaian music (which I play myself). The sounds you use for each part need only resemble the original instrument insofar as it demonstrates the function of the instrument or contrasts with other parts. For example, you should make the bell part a cowbell like sound and a rattle a shaker sound of some sort. Any thoughts, folks? Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:03:01 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chris Anthes Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? > Playing orchestration pieces on any midi module is just setting up >the tracks properly vol and velocity wise. Usually one doesnt do any >patch editing, except for doubling certain parts to get the balance >right. And adjusting what octaves the parts are playing in. > I have a couple of thousand classical midi files, including >symphonies and a couple of hundred movie soundtracks. They all sound >decent and a surprising number sound very good for an orchestra in a >box. > Its just knowing how to arrange to the strengths of the midi patches >and whatever module you are using. I agree ... somewhat. I have many orchestral sequences for my 01/W. Most of them sound OK, but a few of them sound absolutely great (like Eddie Jobson's Sketch #4). These sound really good because of the skill of the sequencer, not necessarily the quality of the sound module. I think my 01/W has some fairly good orchestral sounds, and I believe that a convincing arrangment can be made on it alone. Especially if tracks are recorded independently allow for more polyphony (instead using of just the internal sequencer). But they have to be recorded right in the first place. More synths can definately expand your palette, but if you don't know how to mix them right, you can end up with even worse mud than before. Also, good use of reverb can also play a major role in the realism. However, I also believe that crappy sound modules can never produce a realistic sounding orchestra, even in the hands of an master. You gotta have the sounds to begin with or you will never get anywhere. Of course, I also believe that you will NEVER be able to obtain the sound of a real orchestra from synths, but that's what keeps orchestra musicians employed ... occasionally, at least. ;-) Chris ********************************************************************** * Chris Anthes * Work - mailto:chrisa@dsea.com * * * Home - mailto:chrisa@eworld.com * * * mailto:canthes@aol.com * ********************************************************************** * Good things come to those who wait, * * But crap shows up right away. - Rich Hall * ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:18:06 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? > Playing orchestration pieces on any midi module is just setting up >the tracks properly vol and velocity wise. Surely the whole point of General MIDI is that it's supposed to be a no-brainer? Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL http://www.cassiel.com years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:41:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? I use an SY77 synth that provides AM and FM mixing capabilities, plus multi voice stacking. This is about as close to real strings as you can get for the money. Yamaha makes modules with the same capabilities - check them out. I'm very satisfied with the strings I get from my machine. I've had good response from the film people too. Some film makers aren't going to like anything electronic, even if they don't know it is electronic (oh, I could tell all along that something just didn't sound right...right) - these are the same people who won't spend a nickel for music but want something the likes of Korngold. I like doing contemporary e-music with a small band set up, say guitar, bass, piano and drums, maybe some percussion tossed in, trumpet solo stuff - alot of the time people will buy it as a real band, and refuse to believe it's electronic. But , if you use a full up string orchestra most of the time the "cats out of the bag" because string orchestras are far and few in between and expensive to bring together - especially for starving composers. There are good sounds out there, take a few weekends and go to some stores and listen, you'll find what you're looking for. One other approach is to tell the film maker that you can score the composition and if he is willing to foot the bill you'll hire the Boston Pops to do it, plus studio costs. After he's revived from the shock of the initial estimated costs he may agree with you that the synth really does sound close enough. Alan Bookmiller tabbooks@pa.net (Alan M. Bookmiller) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Paul A. Fox" with my Emu ESI-32 that Emu's tech support has not been able to reproduce. They think that it is something wrong with my sampler and I believe that it is a design flaw on their part. I need to talk to other ESI-32 owners to see if this is just my problem. If you are using an ESI-32 would you please contact me at paulafox@aol.com. Thanks. Paul A. Fox ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:00:03 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: scale figuring marshall bobbled that just a bit. i think he probably just was typing too fast. as he says, the ratio between two adjacent halfsteps is 2^(1/12) which is about 1.06, if you just want to do it quick and dirty. so, Bb=440*( 2^(1/12) ) and (here's the bobble) B=440*( 2^(1/12) )*( 2^(1/12) ) in other words, raise (2^(1/12)) to the power of n, where n is the number of halfsteps up from your root pitch. note that (2^(1/12))^12=2, which is the octave ratio at twelve halfsteps. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:14:31 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? In response to: > Playing orchestration pieces on any midi module is just setting up >the tracks properly vol and velocity wise. Nick said: > Surely the whole point of General MIDI is that it's supposed to be > a no-brainer? Correct, that is the raison d'etre of General MIDI. And, from what little I've heard, it has succeeded... to a point. Like anything intended as a one-size-fits-all, some nips and tucks are required. One person I know entertains himself by grabbing sequences off the Internet and playing them as is. He is not a musician and so his less developed tastes are more easily satisfied than the more sophisticated tastes displayed by another friend of mine. This other friend also grabs sequences from the 'net but spends countless hours tweeking the sequences and his synths' patches to fit his concept of how things should sound. Both friends benefit from GM but one works harder for the desired results. Not completely a no-brainer in some cases. And, yes, I agree that orchestration is high up there in importance. Having played saxophone in concert and jazz bands in high school, I was exposed early on to the concepts of orchestration. I also heard how many orchestrations sounded and what registers were used for various instruments in ensemble work. Orchestration, therefore, has always been a part of my listening experience. This experience thus drives how I sequence. Use of various patches in specific registers and layering of multiple sound sources for similar sounds are part of the toolset I find most useful. Careful mixing and use of reverb can simulate certain recordings quite well in some cases. I have one song that fools many people into thinking that I multitracked sax on it. Only certain musicians aren't fooled. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:44:27 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@dresden.american.edu Wise words from Alan Bookmiller: >One other approach is to tell the film maker that you can score the >composition and if he is willing to foot the bill you'll hire the Boston >Pops to do it, plus studio costs. After he's revived from the shock of the >initial estimated costs he may agree with you that the synth really does >sound close enough. Great perspective Alan. I've found that by using all MIDI tuned percussion instruments, such as marimba, piano, vibes, glock and variants as well as plucked strings like harp, classical guitar and pizzicato string sections, w/ overlayed winds (still all MIDI - synths or samples) that a sizable orchestra can be built up _without_ using bowed strings, or possibly with using them only in a very limited fashion. It also has the advantage of making you rethink orchestration which helps you come up with a different but full sound.