========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:46:58 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Damien Moody Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 5 Mar 1996 to 6 Mar 1996 In-Reply-To: <199603060600.BAA107281@atlanta.american.edu> > > However, I also believe that crappy sound modules can never produce a > realistic sounding orchestra, even in the hands of an master. You gotta > have the sounds to begin with or you will never get anywhere. > > Of course, I also believe that you will NEVER be able to obtain the sound > of a real orchestra from synths, but that's what keeps orchestra > musicians employed ... occasionally, at least. ;-) > > Chris > > ********************************************************************** > * Chris Anthes * Work - mailto:chrisa@dsea.com * > * * Home - mailto:chrisa@eworld.com * > * * mailto:canthes@aol.com * > ********************************************************************** > * Good things come to those who wait, * > * But crap shows up right away. - Rich Hall * > ********************************************************************** The way I see it, why bother try to exactly reproduce an acoustic instrument electronically (speaking artistically about electronic music) when you can get the thing itself? It's great to have "stringlike" and "flutelike" sounds, but not only will electronic music not replace the instruments of traditional orchestral music, it should fall into its own category with no intention of copying other genres. Damien Moody dmoody@capaccess.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:40:35 +1900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Hugo Ernesto Foigelman Subject: session8 Does anybody have a session 8 PC? I'm running one with a cakewalk 3.0,and they sync fine,but I'm not capable of record the fader movements of the session into the cakewalk to automate the mix.I really tried on everything, read the manuals carefully,and made tons of tests, but nothing happens.I'll appreciate any idea. Thanks, Hugo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:39:37 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dave Rosborough Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 5 Mar 1996 to 6 Mar 1996 > The way I see it, why bother try to exactly reproduce an acoustic >instrument electronically (speaking artistically about electronic music) >when you can get the thing itself? It's great to have "stringlike" and >"flutelike" sounds, but not only will electronic music not replace the >instruments of traditional orchestral music, it should fall into its own >category with no intention of copying other genres. > >Damien Moody dmoody@capaccess.org This is very true in a strictly theoretical situation, where cash is unlimited. But musicians like to get paid, and if you're making a demo tape (which started this thread) then money isn't necessarily growing on trees... TTYL DaveR _________________________________________________ David Rosborough Online Services Designer, Faculty of Education, SFU drosboro@sfu.ca http://www.educ.sfu.ca/people/DavidR/ _________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 02:56:13 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Sammer Subject: Electronic Music / Alesis ADAT project..... I'm looking for anyone involved with industrial, ambient, techno, rave, acid house, or any of the numerous other kinds of totally electronic music out there! I would like to start a project with someone new, problem is that there are no people in my immediate area interested! (area = upstate NY = just above NYC) ANYONE WHO OWNS THE ALESIS ADAT OR THE ADAT XT AND WOULD LIKE TO RECORD TRACKS AND MAIL THE TAPES BACK AND FORTH IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE SOMETHING INTERESTING AND POSSIBLY NEW SEND ME MAIL!!!!!! Also if you know of any kind of groups that already do this kind of thing, let me know! I'm very eager and excited and would like to get started. I am also quite serious, so please only reply if you are willing to work! If there is anyone who applies to any of these, or would like to bring another type of EM to my attention, please send me private e-mail! regards, es Industrial and Electronic Music - http://members.aol.com/speck100/homepage/eric1.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:54:46 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Why Simulate the Real Thing? Chris Anthes said: > Of course, I also believe that you will NEVER be able to obtain the sound > of a real orchestra from synths, but that's what keeps orchestra > musicians employed ... occasionally, at least. ;-) I agree. Even samplers can't go all the way and duplicate an orchestra. But you can get sufficiently close for some applications. And Damien Moody responded: > The way I see it, why bother try to exactly reproduce an acoustic >instrument electronically (speaking artistically about electronic music) >when you can get the thing itself? It's great to have "stringlike" and >"flutelike" sounds, but not only will electronic music not replace the >instruments of traditional orchestral music, it should fall into its own >category with no intention of copying other genres. Gee, you're both right! I think the key phrase in Damien's statement is, "...when you can get the thing itself?" speaking artistically about electronic music as Damien did. But I find myself in the throes of Jesus Christ Superstar and the orchestral instruments are just not available on a local theatre's budget. And now that the synth player left us in the lurch, the pianist, the other guitarist, and I are scrambling to fill in the highlights as best as we are able. (We're using DX7, GR50, and Mirage & Taurus II, respectively.) It's fun but a little late in the game for us to do any serious sound design. Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 12:49:40 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe Miklojcik Subject: Patch bays larger than 8x8 I think that with MOTU MIDI Time Piece II's, you can buy multiple units and "network" them. That is, there is some interface with with 2 TP2s can be connected that does not use up any MIDI ports, and that you have in every which way a 16x16 computer interface (16x16 MIDI channels). I'm not sure if the networking works independently of the computer -- if you turn off the computer you may just have 2 8x8 patch bays that can't talk to each other. In theory then, you could connect a third, and make it a 24x24 (16x24 MIDI channels), and so on. This is what I read from their TP2 lit. You can't do this with any PC interfaces I know of, although I'm hoping Opcode's recent aquisitions will fill in this gap. While I'm here dreaming, what I'd really like is a wireless MIDI system where you just throw a wireless cap on the in/out/thru jacks on the back of everything in your rig. Then one centralized brain/computer would drive them all with no patch-bay width limits. (jfm) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:08:13 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David W. Dial" Subject: Re: Why Simulate the Real Thing? >Chris Anthes said: >> Of course, I also believe that you will NEVER be able to obtain the sound >> of a real orchestra from synths, but that's what keeps orchestra >> musicians employed ... occasionally, at least. ;-) > >And Damien Moody responded: >> The way I see it, why bother try to exactly reproduce an acoustic >>instrument electronically (speaking artistically about electronic music) >>when you can get the thing itself? It's great to have "stringlike" and >>"flutelike" sounds, but not only will electronic music not replace the >>instruments of traditional orchestral music, it should fall into its own >>category with no intention of copying other genres. > >Gee, you're both right! I think the key phrase in Damien's statement >is, "...when you can get the thing itself?" speaking artistically about >electronic music as Damien did. But I find myself in the throes of >Jesus Christ Superstar and the orchestral instruments are just not >available on a local theatre's budget. And now that the synth player >left us in the lurch, the pianist, the other guitarist, and I are >scrambling to fill in the highlights as best as we are able. (We're using >DX7, GR50, and Mirage & Taurus II, respectively.) It's fun but a little >late in the game for us to do any serious sound design. > >Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com I agree that it's impossible to electronically duplicate an acoustic orchestra, but if flesh-and-blood competent musicians are not available, the electronic substitute helps the vast majority of us who cannot "visualize" the sound of an orchestra. The electronic devices are merely another tool available to people who want to make music. The great thing about the present state of music is that there are many more ways to get into music and music education than when all we had was acoustic instruments. Think of it as having a bigger palette to work with. Dave Dial Fumbling Amateur Musician and Fanatical MIDI File Collector ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 20:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "John C. Witzgall" Subject: Re: session8 I have Session8 and Cakewalk 3.00, and they don't work together on my PC at all. The audio tracks on Session8 simply don't play while Cakewalk is installed in the same computer. So be glad..it could be worse. I've heard that Cakewalk has acknowledged that there are some problems with Cakewalk/Session8 compatibility, but I haven't called them yet to find out exactly what they are. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 08:35:15 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: Re[2]: Why Simulate the Real Thing? Without synths to simulate the real thing, composers sometimes have to wait *years* before being able to hear what their work sounds like. Although a synthesized orchestra is a very weak, distant second to the Real McCoy, it certainly is nice to be able to hear a composition in it's final stages without having to hire a full human orchestra! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 03:53:00 +0900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BUYO-BUYO-IGOR Subject: VOCODER about a week ago Mr. Tony Cappellini asked.. >Does anybody know what Kraftwerk used for the speech synthesis in >The Autobahn , and how did they get it to "talk" in time with the beat ? I'm not sure. But I think it's a VOCODER. This machine has double inputs--one for mic and the other for your instrument. Words will be controled by what you say and the pitch by the instrument. H. Hancock(spell?) a jazz KB player sang all the songs with it in the album "S UNRISE"(I think it was). Am I wrong? SOMEBODY? the only night-time key-puncher on this list BUYO-BUYO-IGOR=Masaaki Tsuji=cxl03253@niftyserve.or.jp * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:14:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Hugo Ernesto Foigelman Subject: Re: VOCODER >about a week ago Mr. Tony Cappellini asked.. > >>Does anybody know what Kraftwerk used for the speech synthesis in >>The Autobahn , and how did they get it to "talk" in time with the beat ? > and then... >I'm not sure. But I think it's a VOCODER. >This machine has double inputs--one for mic and the other for your > instrument. > Words will be controled by what you say and the pitch by the instrument. >H. Hancock(spell?) a jazz KB player sang all the songs with it in the > album "S >UNRISE"(I think it was). > >Am I wrong? SOMEBODY? > As far as I know,in a not so old interview with keyboard magazine,they talk about a custom made device wich actually "plays" vowels and syllabs. I'll try to find the issue.By the way,you can ALMOST get the same with a vocoder,provided that you can find the right sound in the modulator instrument (it works in a "carrier-modulator" fashion,the voice being the carrier). Happy noises,and happy next day,Japan! PS:did you hear that japanese band pizzicato five?I think H.Hosono has something to do with them,but I'm not sure. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 00:24:02 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Hi Nick Rothwell responded to: >> Playing orchestration pieces on any midi module is just setting up >>the tracks properly vol and velocity wise. with: >Surely the whole point of General MIDI is that it's supposed to be a >>no-brainer? IMHO, General MIDI requires no effort to get poor playback of orchestral pieces of music. But then, trying to get a GM file to sound right when it is played back isn't just a question of setting the volumes and dynamics (via velocity) either. It depends on the orchestration too - GM has such a limited palette of sounds that I always end up using non-GM sounds to get the timbres that feel right for me. I have managed to get some okay results, but it was slow, hard work (rather like re-arranging someone else's work from scratch), and I tend to end up using rather more than just GM sources (more like 90% my own sounds, 10% GM!). And there's enough differences in the various GM modules to ensure that music sounds different when played back from different GM modules - some sound good, some sound okay, and some sound not so good. I have always thought that you get what you pay for - and with GM you don't pay much or get very much. Personally, give me synthesis instead of 'no brainer' 'paint-by-numbers' any day! Now I do have a GM module, but it is so that I can listen to other people's GM files (and as a source of fill sounds, not for 'front of the mix' use!) and learn a little of their techniques - I've heard some very inventive ways of using it. I'm not anti-GM:, it's fine for its intended application (perhaps 'paint-by-numbers' is a little harsh!), but for me it doesn't offer the depth or detail that I prefer. Regards Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 22:09:04 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Good News/Bad News--Synth/Sampler-I don't know what to do!!?!? Hi All, You take any piece of gear, you add your imagination, and you see what you can do with it. Certain things can be done very well with presets, other projects one will want to use ones own custom created sounds. Beethoven is still Beethoven even on a GM synth. The idea is to express yourself, the music, melodies, emotion, you have inside. You can express things a certain way with a one note at a time analog pieces of gear, other ways with an top of the line sampler, other ways with a bunch of synths. You do the best musical job you have with whatever gear you have. The idea is too have fun and enjoy yourself. Dont be limited by the gear you have or the gear you dont have. Theres no reason why one couldnt write 12 symphonys on a GM synth or even score 12 films with one. GM is just a patch list in a certain order. One can choose to be limited by this or not. I choose to not be limited by gear or midi or anything else. I tend to just say, whats the best I can do with this piece of gear or this music project. And then when the next thing comes along. How can I do this better. What new things can I learn about music and sound today, even with a GM module. As your musical imagination grows, you can get more music and more sound ideas out of any synth, any sampler. Happy Emusic. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:00:34 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: suggested listening recent and recommended acquisitions: 1) Trans Slovenia Express - a compilation of slovenian rock and electronic bands covering kraftwerk tunes. an enormous amount of fun, with sounds that range from the humorously dirgelike (laibach's cover of "das spiegelglas der welt" is actually sung in slovenian, and winds up sounding like a cross between prokofiev and the swans) to the conventionally danceable, to the sweetly lyrical, to the deliberate parody of heavy metal (you've got to hear strelnikoff's take on "man machine"). the mastering is excellent, pulling together a pretty diverse set of sonic approaches into a cohesive album. none of the material is anywhere near as spare as kraftwerk's, and yet most of it either retains enough of the original ideas of their work, or carries them off in mostly intelligent new directions, so as to diminish kraftwerk's claim that their music is inseparable from them. in many ways, i enjoy this album more than any single collection by kraftwerk themselves. on Mute 61612-2. 2) Philip Glass: Dancepieces - i imagine this one is not new for many of you, but i just picked it up for myself, and it's definitely my favorite glass so far. one of the things i particularly like about it (and about glass in general), is that while the music is formally rigid - to a degree that if i were to strictly translate its notation into a sequencer i would produce a very cold and, i think, uninteresting music - the sound is not at all so - it breathes as it moves, with the bowing and the arpeggiating and so on. the music itself is harmonically attractive, and at the same time open enough that i wind up listening to it as a *performnace*, and not simply a melody and orchestration. most of these pieces, having been written for the dance, move a bit more than some of his other material, and even though most of the tone production isn't electronic, i think his place in the impact zone of compositional and technical attitudes that i consider to be the essence of emusic is pretty firm. i also picked up a copy of tangerine dream's "le parc", but that's just back-catalog filling - hardly news. btw - has anyone else picked up klaus schulze's live album at royal albert hall? schulze is remaining extraordinarily idiosyncratic and self-absorbed. this one is tonally thin, melodically abstract, and purely expressive. he's hgetting good at restructring the idiom: he uses space-sound tonalities, but doesn't make space music with them anymore. a difficult album to get close to, in many ways... definitely not wallpaper. which leads me to the following question: is anyone i don't know about doing *emusic* these days - not just newage or academynoise or one of the endlessly differentiated and substantively indistinguishable ambient forms? or even krautrock? point me to something. <--- Entropy Always Wins, And I Like To Be On The Winning Side ---> Eric Harnden (Ronin) harnden@physics.american.edu (202)885-2746 http://physics.american.edu:8001/dka400/www/enh/enh-home.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:59:22 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jon Morris Subject: Re: suggested listening In-Reply-To: <199603122056.PAA17763@dresden.american.edu> from "Eric Harnden" at Mar 12, 96 10:00:34 pm > > which leads me to the following question: is anyone i don't know > about doing *emusic* these days - not just newage or > academynoise or one of the endlessly differentiated and > substantively indistinguishable ambient forms? or even krautrock? > point me to something. > check out David Torn's "Tripping over God" - it came out last year sometime on CMP records, also he has a new one coming out April 9th, and I've heard rumors of some kind of solo tour. There isn't any synth playing, just layers of processed guitars and sparse percussion. Some of it might be a little more ambient than you're interested in, but I think that most of the album lives comfortably somewhere between new age and academynoise. The textures he creates are wonderful, but the album's strength is in the composition. Plus, as a little additional incentive, he recorded the whole album at home, I think with Sound Tools, so the production side of it may be of interest to emusic folks as well. -Jon jonmor@moontower.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:19:28 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: suggested listening Could you please spare us the puerile music appreciation suggestions. Anyone who still listens to Glass is in trouble. BYE RPC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:42:00 +0900 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: BUYO-BUYO-IGOR Subject: IWASWRONGSORRY >>>I'm not sure. But I think it's a VOCODER. >>>Am I wrong? SOMEBODY? >You are wrong. >They don't use a vocoder on Autobahn at all. ooops, sorry that I couldn't help so that's what's great of Kraftwerk....I see. BUYO-BUYO-IGOR=Masaaki Tsuji=cxl03253@niftyserve.or.jp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 22:28:34 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: "puerile" suggested listening??? >Could you please spare us the puerile music appreciation suggestions. >Anyone who still listens to Glass is in trouble. Bull!! I've read Mr. Harndin's posts for three years now, and I don't believe he should be described as having "puerile music appreciation suggestions." I appreciate hearing well thought out reviews of music as he has done. It opens my mind up to music I may never have heard before; not only that... it is much more entertaining and informative than your less than engrossing 2-line post. Besides, aren't _YOU_ giving us your opinion (albeit without a lot of explaination or deep contemplation) on what is or isn't good to listen to? Why is it OK for you to do so, and not for Ronin? So, "RPC," for your edification and education, I'll tell you something else: I picked up a CD of Alwin Nikolais, the master choreographer/composer, which contains a retrospective of his electronic dance music from the 60's to the 80's. It's a very fun CD, full of quirky timbres and rhythms. Also, I found it interesting to hear what sounds Nikolais could tweak and coax from his modular Moog (he bought Moog's very first synthesizer using funds from a Guggenheim Fellowship!), and how they evolve over this period. His later work featured the Emulator as the flagship synth. This CD is on CRI and is catalogue #CD-651. Maybe you'll open up your mind and check it out? Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: "puerile" suggested listening??? I was listrening to and watching Alvin Nikolais when you were kicking slats out of your cradle. Check out my two albums on CRI BYE RPC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:55:54 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: suggested listening In-Reply-To: <960312201928.7f22@FLO.ORG> from "NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG" at Mar 12, 96 08:19:28 pm > > Could you please spare us the puerile music appreciation suggestions. > Anyone who still listens to Glass is in trouble. > BYE > RPC > Bob. This wasn't a useful contribution. De gustibus non disputandum. "I don't find Glass that listenable myself. I'd recommend you try..." is useful. I hope you can see the difference. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:32:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: "puerile" suggested listening??? In-Reply-To: <960313092629.7353@FLO.ORG> from "NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG" at Mar 13, 96 09:26:29 am > > I was listrening to and watching Alvin Nikolais when you were kicking slats > out of your cradle. > Check out my two albums on CRI > BYE > RPC > What are the titles? It'd be easier to find them (or order them) with those. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:10:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: suggested listening Sorry. Just trying to be useful. RPC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:36:12 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: Re[2]: "puerile" suggested listening??? >I was listrening to and watching Alvin Nikolais when you were kicking slats >out of your cradle. >Check out my two albums on CRI >BYE >RPC Oh my, my. Am *I* impressed...again, you have nothing constructive to add to my post concerning music-- just self-aggrandizment. What does having albums out on CRI or your or my age have anything to do with it?? One can certainly be an old jerk as easily as a young one!! Perhaps I assumed incorrectly about your chronological age due to the childish tone of your missive. Heck, I can't even "check out your two albums on CRI" without the catalogue numbers! I _would_ be interested in hearing your music and giving it a fair listening...I even listen to Phillip Glass...why not "RPC?" Maybe I'll even review them with Ronin and post it to Emusic-L :-) Also, I think that this forum is not the place for this kind of bantering: if you had included your email address with your initials I wouldn't have responded to the whole list to begin with! Ceasing and desisting on this thread, Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:08:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: "puerile" suggested listening??? CRI 328 and CRI 482. Also BEEP l00l amd BEEP l002. These are all EL PEAS. If you want autographed copies the price is 100 bucks each. Good listening! BOB