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Subject:      File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9607C"
To: Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Status: RO

=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 13 Jul 1996 22:34:34 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Associations [was RE: Lexicon Vortex...]

>> I'm still surprised that the readership here and in
>> EMUSIC-L seems to associate electronic music with keyboards.
>
>Well, perhaps some of the younger readership does.  We're not all versed in
>the history of electronic music.

Neither am I. I do occasionally hang around with the historical, academic
emusic guys but they tend to wear sandals a lot and use words like
"electroacousmatic performance" when they mean live mixing/processing of
DAT tapes. It's all good clean fun, but I got my degree and my doctorate in
Computer Science and have a completely different background. My disregard
for keyboards comes about from my exposure to semantic abstractions in
computer languages and systems, not from my exposure to emusic
academicians.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:32:18 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Costs continued ...
In-Reply-To:  <s1e64690.034@smtpgate.read.tasc.com> from "Robert M. Sanders" at
              Jul 12, 96 12:34:09 pm

Robert M. Sanders writes--
>
>Let's talk cost.

If we must.

>Scenario #2: Doug buys a new keyboard every three years. The
>keyboard remains useable for 5 years, but he's already getting bored
>and falling behind the power curve if he doesn't update his rig about
>every three years.

Doug should rethink how he works. Looking around my rig, I
have only one or two keyboards that I haven't had for at least four
years. Most of those have received only a cursory manual reading,
since I don't buy synths with arcane UIs if I can help it. Upgrades
are limited to ROM chip fixes (usually free except for shop labor).
It's possible to make good music without buying a 2500-dollar
megasynth every time, and something that requires the sort of
maintainance costs you mentioned doesn't belong in a rig at all.

I've been doing this for over a decade, and my numbers don't come out
near as bad as Doug's would ten years into your scenario. I can only
conclude that Doug has had his brain reprogrammed very effectively by
the marketing people who sell synths, and he's doing exactly what they
want him to. If everyone spent money like this, the gear makers would
be rich enough to offer the incentives to music magazines that Vinny
Fiorenza claims they do. More on that in another (lengthy but
hopefully not flameful) post, coming up in the next day or two....

Speaking of eager consumers, anyone know what happened to Tapas Das?

mike


--
Eno's music is SUPPOSED to be wallpaper. But not everyone has to like the
pattern.                                            (suzanne traub-metlay)
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:38:47 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Associations [was RE: Lexicon Vortex...]
In-Reply-To:  <v01510100ae0d75b427c4@[158.152.9.55]> from "Nick Rothwell" at
              Jul 13, 96 10:34:34 pm

Nick Rothwell writes--
>>
>>Well, perhaps some of the younger readership does.  We're not all versed in
>>the history of electronic music.
>
>Neither am I. I do occasionally hang around with the historical, academic
>emusic guys but they tend to wear sandals a lot and use words like
>"electroacousmatic performance" when they mean live mixing/processing of
>DAT tapes.

Oi, mush! Yer talking ta me?

> It's all good clean fun, but I got my degree and my doctorate in
>Computer Science and have a completely different background. My disregard
>for keyboards comes about from my exposure to semantic abstractions in
>computer languages and systems, not from my exposure to emusic
>academicians.

Lord knows I've tried to corrupt him, but his strength is as the
strength of ten because his heart is pure.

mike
--
Eno's music is SUPPOSED to be wallpaper. But not everyone has to like the
pattern.                                            (suzanne traub-metlay)
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:58:34 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

Hello, I'm quite new on this list and would like to comment on a recent
post:

>> Well, perhaps some of the younger readership does.  We're not all
>> versed in the history of electronic music.
> Neither am I. I do occasionally hang around with the historical,
> academic emusic guys but they tend to wear sandals a lot and use words
> like "electroacousmatic performance" when they mean live
> mixing/processing of DAT tapes.

> It's all good clean fun, but I got my degree and my doctorate in
> Computer Science and have a completely different background. My
> disregard for keyboards comes about from my exposure to semantic
> abstractions in computer languages and systems, not from my exposure
> to emusic academicians.

Well, I too am not an academic emusician and share a totally different
background.  I'm a theoretical physicist.

But I understand wordings like the one referred to above:  The sense
that should come out of it is not in the strict sense of live
processing/mixing, that being only the action behind the idea.  And the
latter is--as derived from acousmatics--a Pythagorean ritual, in which
everyone would hear music, but would not see the source (a opaque screen
in-between).

The intent was to separate the sound events from the gestures and
actions of the performers, so as to fully and properly appreciate the
timbre.  One of the ideas behind electronic/electroacoustic music, as
advocated by the ideologists of Musique Concrete, was precisely that:
denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in the
manner of the Pythagoreans.  So then it became practice to
electronically transform every sound, to the point of no possible
recognition.

Of course, this is simply one of many deep peculiarities and intentions
of the various forms of emusic, which IMHO only serve to make it all
much more fascinating--to the point of making certain pieces tolerable.

Oh, BTW, I don't use sandals :-).
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 02:34:50 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Bacil C. Warren" <Azsouth@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Interactive Technologies for Music Applications

David--

I know that Dr. Tim Kolosick at the University of Arizona has done a lot of
research in this area, including design of software and devices for the
hearing impaired, and studies in how well they work in real-life situations.

I suggest you contact him, however, I don't know his e-mail. Check the
directory for GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU as a start (that is the server address for
the school).

Chris
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 02:02:38 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Fred Becker <mach25@INDY.NET>
Subject:      The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

Recent discussion has brought to mind the Electronic Music Foundation,
dedicated to academic EM:

http://www.emf.org

Sincerely,

Fred Becker
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:01:28 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]
In-Reply-To:  <31E9CFFA.5F6C@mail.telepac.pt> from "Paulo Mouat" at Jul 15,
              96 06:58:34 am

Paulo Mouat writes--
>
>Well, I too am not an academic emusician and share a totally different
>background.  I'm a theoretical physicist.

I suppose it would be inappropriate to slam a newcomer to the list
for his choice of career, no?

mike
(ex-experimental physicist with utter contempt for theoreticians that's
actually thinly veiled jealousy ;)

PS:

>The intent was to separate the sound events from the gestures and
>actions of the performers, so as to fully and properly appreciate the
>timbre.  One of the ideas behind electronic/electroacoustic music, as
>advocated by the ideologists of Musique Concrete, was precisely that:
>denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in the
>manner of the Pythagoreans.  So then it became practice to
>electronically transform every sound, to the point of no possible
>recognition.

I suppose that one could even justify the uniquely-academic version
of a "Concert," in which a group of people sit and listen to tapes,
with this paradigm. I'd never thought of it that way. (And I've done it.)

>Oh, BTW, I don't use sandals :-).

I didn't when I was a physicist. I do now that I'm a swine of a writer. :)

--
Eno's music is SUPPOSED to be wallpaper. But not everyone has to like the
pattern.                                            (suzanne traub-metlay)
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:28:51 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Costs on Nord Equipment
In-Reply-To:  <01BB6F90.445956E0@h108-5-104.ccnet.com> from "Vinny Fiorenza" at
              Jul 11, 96 08:02:33 pm

Vinny Fiorenza writes:
>Amen.  Most of those "industry publications" are just that!  The
>manufacturers pay big $$ {not to mention the FREE gear they also
>receive..} no doubt, for a "positive" review of their piece.  They
>*know* that these rags have a huge influence over the buying public
>that feeds them $$$ (read: "customers") It's very very difficult to
>find a sincere *honest* review of any piece of gear these days that
>isn't tainted by bullshit or some mag kissing ass to the hand that
>feeds them.

Well, as an ex-freelance gear reviewer and editor of one of those
"rags," all I can say is that I wish your accusations were true; it'd
have made equipping my studio a lot cheaper.

There are a number of reasons why magazine reviews tend to be more
favorable than not. Some are sensible and others aren't very good, and
they vary depending on each magazine's editorial policies.  But
believe me-- the industry hasn't got the cash or the stock on hand to
give away money or gear as bribes. In my experience, the best a
reviewer or magazine can hope for is a price break on buying the unit
in question, and even that doesn't happen all the time-- and it's
never contingent on the quality of the review.

mike
--
Eno's music is SUPPOSED to be wallpaper. But not everyone has to like the
pattern.                                            (suzanne traub-metlay)
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:42:57 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         harry haecker <haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV>
Subject:      The porpoises of academic emusic

>I suppose that one could even justify the uniquely-academic version
>of a "Concert," in which a group of people sit and listen to tapes,
>with this paradigm. I'd never thought of it that way. (And I've done it.)

And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud after a tape piece
is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ), if the composer is not present to
hear it.  For whom are you making laudatory noises?

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:23:21 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City wrote:

> I suppose that one could even justify the uniquely-academic version
> of a "Concert," in which a group of people sit and listen to tapes,
> with this paradigm. I'd never thought of it that way. (And I've done
> it.)

You'd be amazed by the preoccupation of composers for that fact...
Listening to music without visual support has proven too demanding for
audiences, and there were several new 'kinds' of musical presentation
to account for just that.  Anyway, it served to experiment also in new
forms of presentation, not strictly for emusic.

That's how, for example, the question of 'space' has been raised (it is
nevertheless fascinating to hear an orchestral piece in which all of the
orchestra is scattered among the audience, or as is more usual, you have
an ensemble playing on stage, but you have electroacoustic processing
through 25 speakers circling the audience).  People, in this instance,
cease to look at the speakers, and start to look around accompanying
the sound projections.

There are some good texts that cover this problem.

Best!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 18:00:14 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic

harry haecker wrote:

> And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud after a
> tape piece is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ), if the composer
> is not present to hear it.  For whom are you making laudatory noises?

Usually for the technicians on stage, who for the most part worked
closely with the composer, and are as responsible for the piece as the
composer himself.

--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:20:07 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic
In-Reply-To:  <9606168375.AA837535407@osprey.nwrc.gov> from "harry haecker" at
              Jul 16, 96 09:42:57 am

harry haecker writes--
>
>>I suppose that one could even justify the uniquely-academic version
>>of a "Concert," in which a group of people sit and listen to tapes,
>>with this paradigm. I'd never thought of it that way. (And I've done it.)
>
>And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud after a tape piece
>is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ), if the composer is not present to
>hear it.  For whom are you making laudatory noises?

Often the composer is in the audience, evaluating the reaction to the
piece. In a story I seem to trot out regularly on this list, I should
remark on a concert at Oberlin when I was a student there. A physics
professor attended a TIMARA concert, and at the end of a new piece by
a young electronic music faculty member, he stood up and booed loudly,
shocking the audience. He followed up with a letter to the alumni
magazine, stating firmly that he would not reward what he termed
"ugliness in sound" by applause he didn't mean, or by polite silence
(i.e. complicity). This sparked a heavy debate on the nature of emusic
criticism, or of criticism for any form of modern art, with professors
and students weighing in on both sides of the issue. I think that it
still rages, in some circles.

The emusician who creates new sounds and tries to open new frontiers
should be prepared (I mean really prepared, not just saying he is) for
scorn. People aren't all sheep, and if someone feels you're wasting
his time, he may well say so. It's taken me a very long time not to be
emotionally wounded when people say they dislike the music my band
puts out (although I, like many artists, am lucky in that most
unfavorable review of my stuff is simply never aired where I can see
it). It's easy to ignore a bad review like the one BANDWIDTH got in
AUDION, because the editor who reviewed it didn't listen to the record
or read the liner notes or promo materials it came with, and made a
judgment based on a minute or two of skipping through the tracks. He
had obvious factual errors in what little he wrote, so it was easy to
set his opinion, such as it was, aside. But when a careful and intent
reviewer like the fellow who puts out CAMERA OBSCURA listens in great
detail and points out how BALLISTIC is, in his opinion, a poor
followup to BANDWIDTH, it smarts because I know he made a real
effort to get into the music and at least partly failed. And that's
not all his fault...part of it rests with me.

Moral: Learn from it and carry on.

mike

--
Eno's music is SUPPOSED to be wallpaper. But not everyone has to like the
pattern.                                            (suzanne traub-metlay)
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:02:22 EDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter K Schoenhoff <pschoenh@PEN.K12.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic
In-Reply-To:  <9606168375.AA837535407@osprey.nwrc.gov>; from "harry haecker" at
              Jul 16, 96 9:42 am

These are the graceful words of harry haecker:

->And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud
->after a tape piece is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ),
->if the composer is not present to hear it.
->For whom are you making laudatory noises?

        The guy who pushed the button on the tape player, I always thought.
        Then again, I feel the same way whenever I see/hear someone
        sing along to an accompaniment tape.

--
  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:40:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Vinny Fiorenza <fiorenza@CCNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Costs on Nord Equipment

:Well, as an ex-freelance gear reviewer and editor of one of those
:"rags," all I can say is that I wish your accusations were true; it'd
:have made equipping my studio a lot cheaper.

yeah, i was 'kinda harsh on my initial post.  Getting "laid off" from my job
while attending school, paying for studio time, etc., did it to me...
My spouting off about dealers, reviews, jeeesh!
Wasn't really in the best of moods at them time and looking back on my
response made me go "whoa"! Pretty harsh for the moment i must say...
Luckily life goes on, new adventures,- as well as creation of new music.

:There are a number of reasons why magazine reviews tend to be more
:favorable than not. Some are sensible and others aren't very good, and
:they vary depending on each magazine's editorial policies.  But
:believe me-- the industry hasn't got the cash or the stock on hand to
:give away money or gear as bribes. In my experience, the best a
:reviewer or magazine can hope for is a price break on buying the unit
:in question, and even that doesn't happen all the time-- and it's
:never contingent on the quality of the review.

:mike

Perhaps i was wrong.  Calming down a bit, thinking more sensibly, it just
appeared that way initially to me as I have never read a *real* critical review
of any product which led me to believe {perhaps incorrectly..}
that the manufacturer had some influence as to the favorable outcome.
As you mention from your experience as a freelance reviewer, this may not be the case.
Sorry for my insensitive spouting off at the mouth.. I'm usually not that way..
Guess it was that time of the month with everything hitting the fan at once.
BTW, what magazine did you write stuff for?  I'd be interested in checking it out.

Take care,
Vinny
<> <> <> <>

"There is no limitation in the synthesizer.  The limitation is in the brain
of the human being.  And until we reach the limits of the brain, we have
a long way to go."
                --VANGELIS--
                    August '82.


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G'$QSNP% ``@PH"$`'$QSNP$>`#T``0````4```!213H@`````*P#
`
end
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:50:29 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Associations [was RE: Lexicon Vortex...]

>Lord knows I've tried to corrupt him, but his strength is as the
>strength of ten because his heart is pure.

...and because I can't compose tunes.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:50:22 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Costs continued ...

>Doug should rethink how he works. Looking around my rig, I
>have only one or two keyboards that I haven't had for at least four
>years.

Same here, but then, my judgement is that there's hardly anything on the
market right now that's of much interest to the serious synthesist and MIDI
control freak, so that makes things easier. (I am very interested in the
Yamaha VL70m, if it shapes up, but that'll be the first sound module I'll
have looked into since the Morpheus two years ago, which was the first
since the Wavestation in 1992.)

>If everyone spent money like this, the gear makers would
>be rich enough to offer the incentives to music magazines that Vinny
>Fiorenza claims they do.

On the other hand: those of us who don't buy much stuff any more (because
we're disillusioned with the lack of response and interest from the vendors
over support) piss off the vendors, who then don't bother to support us.

>Speaking of eager consumers, anyone know what happened to Tapas Das?

Maybe he's at NAMM.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:12:05 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         harry haecker <haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV>
Subject:      Re[2]: The purposes of academic emusic

Paulo Mouat wrote:

>Usually for the technicians on stage, who for the most part worked
>closely with the composer, and are as responsible for the piece as the
>composer himself.

I think that's a good answer, Paulo.  I guess I didn't think of that, since the
instances I'm thinking about are those where the "sound technician" is the lacky
who knows how to plug a reel-to-reel into an outlet, run an output line to
powered speakers and press the play button.

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:50:14 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

>The intent was to separate the sound events from the gestures and
>actions of the performers, so as to fully and properly appreciate the
>timbre.

Ri-i-ight ... but then, why not just play a recording? Any performance or
improvisational aspect of what's being heard is denied to the audience, so
why not just play something back?

>One of the ideas behind electronic/electroacoustic music, as
>advocated by the ideologists of Musique Concrete, was precisely that:
>denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in the
>manner of the Pythagoreans.

Ah, but presumably Pythagoras didn't have a CD player.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:59:06 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         John Krikawa <JKRIKAWA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Costs continued ...

>Tim Kelly wrote...
>>I can also get a really, really, big midi dog to guard all the gear too.
>
>I can picture this: Polaroid or similar ultrasound sensors through some
>analog circuits, a trigger-to-MIDI interface and a sampler.  For a more
>sophisticated approach, insert an MC8031, 68HC11 or PIC chip!
>
>Reminds me of the Halloween stories of about three years ago (remember
>those oldbies?)

Guilty as charged David, it gets better every year. . .now I need another
mixer to separate some more channels out in the yard. . .looking forward
to '96. ;)
-john
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu        Tucson, Arizona         homepage-less
day: (520) 626-6013
night: (520) 326-3068
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 06:15:58 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" <abook@PROXIMA.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic

>It's taken me a very long time not to be
>emotionally wounded when people say they dislike the music my band
>puts out ...

Mike, please go on, we who have never suffered this phenomenon are greatly
interested in hearing more. Please explain what it is like ;  ).

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:13:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Timothy Kelly <midivox@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

Hi All,
   The best reviewers say what they like about a product, and does it
do what it was designed for. The worst do nothing but invent features
they wish some future model might have, which is useless. No one buys a
piece of gear for features that dont exist, you buy a piece of gear for
what it does here and now.
   I know of no major synth company that gives away gear to reviewers.
I sure didnt give any gear to anyone to get good MidiVox reviews.
   You will have to make up your own mind, as to how many full page ads
a company runs, if that has any influence on what the reviewer writes.
Or if a company can guarantee a review by placing a big ad contract.
   The bottom line is that a review is just personal opinion. You may
agree with a review or not, it doesnt matter. What matters is do you
like the gear and does it meet your musical needs.
   All good reviews can do is get you to try the product.
   Whether you buy it or not, should be based on do you like it enough
to own it.
   Happy EMusic Gear
   Timothy Kelly
   MidiVox


--
MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware.
BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain.

Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show.
EM's Editors Choice.

Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass,
Sing Like a Sax?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Jul 1996 06:30:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" <abook@PROXIMA.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic

>These are the graceful words of harry haecker:
>
>->And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud
>->after a tape piece is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ),
>->if the composer is not present to hear it.
>->For whom are you making laudatory noises?
>
>        The guy who pushed the button on the tape player, I always thought.
>        Then again, I feel the same way whenever I see/hear someone
>        sing along to an accompaniment tape.
>
>--
>  -Pete Schoenhoff   _\|/_   pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete,
Applause or boos perhaps for the abilities of the singer is understandable,
at least that's a "realtime" element. How about people that applaud a film
in a movie theater, I always thought that rather odd. There is a dance
group in NY that did a performance and the guest singer was live in San
Francisco and was only present in the theater in NY via television. The
peformance involved moving the TV around the stage as part of the dance
movement as the singer belted out her tunes. Actually pretty interesting -
but after the show I suppose someone had to telephone the singer to tell
her she received loud and long applause!

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:59:50 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

Hi concert-goers (or is that 'tape listeners'?)

Harry wrote
>For whom are you making laudatory noises?

The organisers, maybe?  OTOH, applause is a way of showing approval as much
as for congratulation.  At least, I'm supposing that it's not entirely
adulation that makes Oprah Winfrey's audiences clap at everything she says!

Paulo wrote...
> Listening to music without visual support has proven too demanding for
> audiences, and there were several new 'kinds' of musical presentation
[...]
> There are some good texts that cover this problem.

Oh!  Please list a few.  I'd be very interested to read them.

BTW, is .pt Portugal?  I'd like to hear a little on the state of electronic
music there (popular or aca

Regar9>
H'kds

Gee, do you think I should take transcripts of all this (and worse) to
Telstra customer service and _demand_ compensation for lost and scrambled
mail?  (In other words, I did not type all of that.)

David Rodger
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:34:53 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]

Hi Nick and Pualo,
this is fascinating...

>Ri-i-ight ... but then, why not just play a recording? Any performance or
>improvisational aspect of what's being heard is denied to the audience, so
>why not just play something back?

[...]
> >denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in the
> >manner of the Pythagoreans.
>
> Ah, but presumably Pythagoras didn't have a CD player.

I think this raises the question of how instrumental practice (and maybe
practise in this age of mass-marketing of music and musical instruments)
is 'known' by an audience.  Presumably, people listening to a tape of music
or insturments with which they are familiar have expectations about the way
in which it was performed (albeit in a studio).  These expectations may be
completely wrong (for example, digital editing enables us to construct a
single 'rendering' from multiple performances -- but then engineers seek
to make this seamless anyway so maybe it's a moot point).  But in
Pythagoras' time, were people just as familiar with instrumental practice?

It's hard to say; perhaps some early music scholars (if there are any hanging
out here) can tell us.  In those days, people were less specialised - i.e.
they probably did a greater variety of things domestically and professionally,
whereas we specialise a lot, even inside fairly narrow fields.  So one
might expect that in Pythagoras' time people knew more about everything.

On the other hand, in certain societies (even today, e.g. in Mandinka
cultures) particular professions are also very specialised: artisans,
musicians (re the example -- griots).  If this was so in Pythagoras'
time, perhaps people knew less about music and instrumental practice than
we do.  And this doesn't begin to consider the effects of mass media and
marketing (from the printing press onward).

While the proponents of musique concrete might have sought to separate
aural experience from visual, they wound up having to do more than simply
that (i.e. replacing the usual sounds, too).  Perhaps it was just easier
for Pythagoras (the lack of electronic tools notwithstanding!).

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:02:02 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

Hello equipment reviewers and review readers...

Vinny wrote (after explaining his rather unfortunate experiences)

> I have never read a *real* critical review
> of any product which led me to believe {perhaps incorrectly..}
> that the manufacturer had some influence as to the favorable outcome.

Conisdering Americans' propensity to use adjectival forms for adverbs,
does this mean that you have never read a real critical review or that
you have never read a really critical review?  (The distinction  is a
_real_ one as it changes the meaning of the sentence.)  The former
would indicate that you have never read a 'critical' review that was
real (i.e. it might be claiming to be critical but was not).  The latter
("really critical") would indicate that the review really _was_ critical
of the product -- and this actually makes more sense in the context
of what follows.

Tim wrote
> The bottom line is that a review is just personal opinion.

Well, not entirely.  Different reviewers will reveal different things about
a product.  For example, the convoluted menu and page arrangement on a
Zoxxo ZX-2 might annoy one reviewer who will report what you have to do to
get to the page where you can adjust the dipthong strength, and _then_
offer the opinion that the interface is bad.  Another reviewer, more
accustomed to (or tolerant of) convoluted interfaces, may instead note
that the dipthong strength of the Zoxxo ZX-2 has a greater range of
adjustment than any other product and _then_ offer the opinion that this
is one thing which makes the ZX-2 good!

What they report are facts; what they make of them are opinions.  (this is
not absolute; and different people will have different opinions of what
makes a good review.  Hey, now _there's_ a subject!)

Longing for linguistic subtlety,
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:22:59 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

Reviews tend to have two components: objective (specification,
construction, hardware etc) and subjective (sound quality, ease of use
etc), though the boundaries are often blurred.  I tend to use reviews for
the former and ignore the latter.  If the machine only performs to spec
under a highly specific set of constraining conditions, or if the spec was
carefully written to hide a major architectural flaw, then I want to know.
On the other hand, the comment 'tinny piano sounds' is of no help to me
until I hear them for myself.  Likewise an interface which the reviewer
hates might be intuitive to me.  If the objective criteria are satisfied,
then the next step has to be to go and play with one.

There's a snag here: I'm running out of stores who'll let me play with
their new toys because a) I take hours (I'm a very bad keyboardist) and b)
I never buy anything from them.

Regards

Clive

Clive McFarland         CSIRO Australia         clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:56:35 -1100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Tim Robinson <robinsot@LIRO.FRI.CRI.NZ>
Subject:      Re[2]: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations

How about designing a concert hall so that the audience cannot see the
orchestra...

Tim Robinson, (tim@liro.fri.cri.nz)            \ L ogging      \
LIRO Ltd, PO Box 2244,                          \ I ndustry     \
Rotorua, New Zealand                             \ R esearch     \
Ph. 0064-7-3487-168   Fax. 0064-7-3462-886        \ O rganisation \


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations]
Author:  David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU> at tawa
Date:    17/7/96 10:34 AM


Hi Nick and Pualo,
this is fascinating...

>Ri-i-ight ... but then, why not just play a recording? Any performance or
>improvisational aspect of what's being heard is denied to the audience, so
>why not just play something back?

[...]
> >denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in the
> >manner of the Pythagoreans.
>
> Ah, but presumably Pythagoras didn't have a CD player.

I think this raises the question of how instrumental practice (and maybe
practise in this age of mass-marketing of music and musical instruments)
is 'known' by an audience.  Presumably, people listening to a tape of music
or insturments with which they are familiar have expectations about the way
in which it was performed (albeit in a studio).  These expectations may be
completely wrong (for example, digital editing enables us to construct a
single 'rendering' from multiple performances -- but then engineers seek
to make this seamless anyway so maybe it's a moot point).  But in
Pythagoras' time, were people just as familiar with instrumental practice?

It's hard to say; perhaps some early music scholars (if there are any hanging
out here) can tell us.  In those days, people were less specialised - i.e.
they probably did a greater variety of things domestically and professionally,
whereas we specialise a lot, even inside fairly narrow fields.  So one
might expect that in Pythagoras' time people knew more about everything.

On the other hand, in certain societies (even today, e.g. in Mandinka
cultures) particular professions are also very specialised: artisans,
musicians (re the example -- griots).  If this was so in Pythagoras'
time, perhaps people knew less about music and instrumental practice than
we do.  And this doesn't begin to consider the effects of mass media and
marketing (from the printing press onward).

While the proponents of musique concrete might have sought to separate
aural experience from visual, they wound up having to do more than simply
that (i.e. replacing the usual sounds, too).  Perhaps it was just easier
for Pythagoras (the lack of electronic tools notwithstanding!).

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 05:28:52 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      The purposes of academic emusic [various replies]

Hello all,

>> One of the ideas behind electronic/electroacoustic music, as
>> advocated by the ideologists of Musique Concrete, was precisely that:
>> denying the listener every analogy with their musical experience, in
>> the manner of the Pythagoreans.

> Ri-i-ight ... but then, why not just play a recording? Any performance
> or improvisational aspect of what's being heard is denied to the
> audience, so why not just play something back?
> (...)
> Ah, but presumably Pythagoras didn't have a CD player.

Why not play a recording (I assume you're referring a conventional CD
recording)?  Well, a CD is as good a medium as any other, but it
certainly lacks one characteristic of too much value for composers:  A
CD is only two-track, and tape music is almost exclusively for a minimum
of four (it is unthinkable to release a CD recording of Cage's HPSCHD,
for at most seven harpsichords and fifty-one one-track tapes).

There is one distiction that needs to be clarified.  Not all tape music
is just a tape rolling and providing a signal for the speakers.  Most of
the time you'll be attending what is called 'Live Electronic Music' in
which you may have not only a series of tapes, but also a number of live
performers, whose sounds are processed in real-time either by computer
or by technicians, maybe by the composer himself.

I once attended Stockhausen's 'Gesang der Junglinge' (which is commonly
termed as 'pure' electronic music, because it is only a collection of
tapes and has no live performers whatsoever) and although the sound was
coming from various speakers, there was Stockhausen himself mixing and
projecting sound in realtime.  And his presence was not intended to
provide that lack of visual support;  all the auditorium was dark, all
the lights were off.

>> There are some good texts that cover this problem.

> Oh!  Please list a few.  I'd be very interested to read them.

I can't tell you of a book specifically covering this problem, but I
may indicate several which deal with it, at least in passing, among
other interesting aspects of e-music.

Covering this problem and with anything else you might want to know
about Musique Concrete you have 'Traite des Objets Musicaux' by Pierre
Schaeffer (Seuil, 1966).  This is the bible of Musique Concrete, by its
inventor, and in it you find a deep analysis of music/sound perception,
along with some epistemological/philosophical/whatever thoughts on the
current state of music, musical habits, etc.  (in french).

'Stockhausen on Music' by Stockhausen/Maconie (Marion Boyars, 1989).
You have an intense series of explanations by the composer collated on a
series of interviews conducted by Robin Maconie.  Very pleasant reading,
with interesting ideas on Theatre and Intuitive Music, and a concise
description of the evolution of his music.

'Electronic & Computer Music' by Manning (Oxford, 1985).  A good
reference for the evolution of electronic music, with very thorough
accounts on the early days of emusic up until the present day.

> BTW, is .pt Portugal?

Yes, it is.

> I'd like to hear a little on the state of electronic music there

The state of electronic music, as with anything else here, is in accord
with the 'grandeur' and importance of this tiny country, i.e. there is
not much to show, at least on a scale of the renown of other countries.

But we have fine composers, the most important perhaps being Emmanuel
Nunes, a student of Stockhausen and resident composer at IRCAM and
Cologne and professor in both places.  One other composer, Joao Pedro
Oliveira, may be known in America, for he won several prizes and was
professor there for a long time.

Although we have not a large number of composers, we benefit of having
an actively aware foundation for the arts (Gulbenkian), which every
year, around May, promotes a series of concerts on contemporary
music.  And these concerts are usually great events, since we have
regularly the presence of great names in the field of music, both
performers (Ensemble InterContemporain, Elisabeth Chojnacka, Irvine
Arditti) and composers (such as Stockhausen, Boulez or Xenakis).

Also, when we have performances of emusic, we usually have the original
technicians and studios with which the composers worked (last year we
had a series of concerts dedicated to Luigi Nono, and the live
electronics was performed by the SWF studios, with which the composer
worked closely for the works presented).  There was a time I even
managed to talk to Stockhausen and Xenakis.  I even got the latter's
signature (some amazing greek characters).

Best!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 06:14:30 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [was Re: Associations

> While the proponents of musique concrete might have sought to separate
> aural experience from visual, they wound up having to do more than
> simply that (i.e. replacing the usual sounds, too).  Perhaps it was
> just easier for Pythagoras (the lack of electronic tools
> notwithstanding!).

There is a slight misunderstanding... The proponents of Musique Concrete
only captured the initial idea of the Pythagoreans, they didn't mean to
exactly reproduce an idea with 2000 years old.

The replacement of the usual sounds was a consequence of their ideals,
not a forced event.  They wanted to go way beyond Pythagoras, by proving
that the ear is easily manipulated.  This was a step beyond the lack of
visual support--if you dabble with the attack transients of a sound, you
may fool the ear into thinking it's hearing a completely different
sound--say, a piano misunderstood as a trumpet.

--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:45:56 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         harry haecker <haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV>
Subject:      Re[3]: The purposes of academic emusic

>How about designing a concert hall so that the audience cannot see the
>orchestra...

This is done for opera, as you (probably) know; people want the concert
stage clear of instrumental musicians so they can be *sure* to see when the
fat lady sings.

I do find it distracting sometimes to have the source of the sound (and the
conductor) in front of me.  I close my eyes.  I find it amusing to overhear
other concertgoers complain about their seating in terms of seeing the
orchestra members up close ("The seating isn't nearly as good as last weeks,
when I saw the Berlin Philharmonic..."). I'm quite happy to be ~ 2/3 the way
back and center in weak concert halls, and just about anywhere in good ones.

rambling in the AM,

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:42:19 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "R. Albert Falesch" <raf@INTERACCESS.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic

Alan M. Bookmiller wrote:

> Applause or boos perhaps for the abilities of the singer is understandable,
> at least that's a "realtime" element. How about people that applaud a film
> in a movie theater, I always thought that rather odd.

I think of it in terms of a celebration, a kind of group response to the
opportunity to consume art -- a way of saying to one another (intra-audience
communication, if you will): "I'm happy to have been here with you and to have
shared this positive experience."

        Best,
           Bob

______________________________________
                   R. Albert  Falesch
                  raf@interaccess.com
 http://homepage.interaccess.com/~raf
______________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:17:31 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Ben Cox <cox@TRANSARC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: The purposes of academic emusic
In-Reply-To:  <9606168375.AA837555162@osprey.nwrc.gov>

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, harry haecker wrote:
> I think that's a good answer, Paulo.  I guess I didn't think of that, since the
> instances I'm thinking about are those where the "sound technician" is the lacky
> who knows how to plug a reel-to-reel into an outlet, run an output line to
> powered speakers and press the play button.

Speaking as someone who paid for his undergraduate education as just
such a "lackey," I would like to point out that if you follow this
lackey around for a couple of hours before and after the concert,
you'll find out that he's doing a lot more than you think he is, in
less time than he needs to do it, getting paid too little for it, and
taking a lot of guff from the composers at the same time (politics is
in his job description).  It only _looks_ easy---IF he knows what he's
doing.

__
Ben Cox                                 cox@transarc.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:41:49 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic

>And along this vein, I've wondered whether or not to applaud after a tape piece
>is over (or boo, for that matter!  :-)  ), if the composer is not present to
>hear it.

Perhaps one should attend with a ghetto-blaster(*) and two tapes (one of
applause, one of boos): you play the appropriate tape at the end of the
"performance".

(*) Or as it's sometimes called here, the Brixton briefcase.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:59:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Marcus Hobbs <marcus@FA.DISNEY.COM>
Subject:      any kyma users out there?
In-Reply-To:  owner-EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU "EMUSIC-L Digest - 16 Jul 1996 to 17
              Jul 1996" (Jul 17,  1:00am)

hey guys,

anybody on this list using kyma?  it's a real-time sound-renderer, but with
interactive software controls etc.  the web page is:

  http://www.SymbolicSound.com/kyma.html

i'm thinking about getting it, but it's expensive ($4400 for the very powerful
entry level product).

basically, i'm getting real sick of sample-playback synths, and want to make
the move.

thanks,
marcus
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:20:07 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?

> anybody on this list using kyma?  it's a real-time sound-renderer, but
> with interactive software controls etc.
> (...)
> i'm thinking about getting it, but it's expensive ($4400 for the very
> powerful
> entry level product).
> basically, i'm getting real sick of sample-playback synths, and want
> to make the move.

Have you tried CSound?  It's not realtime (well, on a RISC computer some
functions are), but it's FREE.  Check

      http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Man/c_front.html

It may not be exactly what you expect, but it is the de facto piece of
software among academicians.

Cheers!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:22:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nikki Halpern <101762.3705@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      The purposes of academic emusic

>OTOH, applause is a way of showing approval as much
>as for congratulation.

Yes.  Or even:  you are applauding for _the_music_itself_, even in the
absence of the composer.

Ben Thigpen
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 22:46:32 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The purposes of academic emusic [various replies]

This reminds me obliquely: has anyone read Brian Eno's book yet? (A Year
with Swollen Appendices.) I'm expecting a copy to arrive any moment...

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:57:32 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" <abook@PROXIMA.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic

>Perhaps one should attend with a ghetto-blaster(*) and two tapes (one of
>applause, one of boos): you play the appropriate tape at the end of the
>"performance".
>
>(*) Or as it's sometimes called here, the Brixton briefcase.
>
>         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
>         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control
>
>             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again


Nick you're a pip! Thanks for the laugh!

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:00:48 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

HI Clive...

> There's a snag here: I'm running out of stores who'll let me play with
> their new toys because a) I take hours (I'm a very bad keyboardist) and b)
> I never buy anything from them.

and, here in Australia especially...

c) unless it's some item that will sell 1000 in the first week, they (and
the distributors) won't get one in for you to play with unless you promise
to buy it.

We Australians read your prices and drool.  I'll give an example.  The new
8-channel analog controlled compressor from PreSonus retails at US$800
(about A$1000).  Retail here?  A$1995.  Yes, you read correctly.

Now I know we have import duty and sales tax, but you _know_ the distributors
ain't buying the thing for US$800.

Crying into my coffee,
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:14:08 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Re[3]: The purposes of academic emusic

Hi Harry...

>I do find it distracting sometimes to have the source of the sound (and the
>conductor) in front of me.  I close my eyes.  I find it amusing to overhear
>other concertgoers complain about their seating in terms of seeing the
>orchestra members up close

Ha ha ha.  In our very own Melbourne Concert hall, the best seats are in the
gods where the largest volume of unoccupied space is right above you.
If you sit in the stalls during an orchestral concert, you get mostly
strings.  If you sit in the gallery, (2nd tier), you get (too) early
reflections off the level above and back (since that tier is not very deep).

The best seats are also the cheapest!

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:24:58 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?

Hi Marcus...

> i'm thinking about getting it [a Kyma], but it's expensive ($4400 for the
> very powerful entry level product).

A few more questions come to mind (expecially as I got some junk e-mail
from them the other day -- don't know where they got my address from or
why they think I might buy one!)

(1) What do you get in terms of hardware, esp. DSP and synthesis hardware?

(2) Is there sampling ability (for when you _do_ want to do that, or fritz
    the sounds!)?

(3) What do I get that I couldn't maybe do with a PowerMac, an Audiomedia
    card, Opcode's MAX and numerous public domain DSP hacks (like some of
    those found at ftp.latrobe.edu.au) ?  Of course, you'd need to check
    out what's available in that line.

(4) Alternative to a Digidesign sound card; Digi's SampleCell card (maybe).
    Maybe both?

I'm not endorsing Digidesign, but they are just about the only Mac sound
hardware manufacturer out there with a reasonable customer base and an SDK
for the adventurous (that's software developer's kit).

BTW, on that note, this might be better discussed on synth-l? Joe? Mike?

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 17:29:54 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?

Hello again,
Paulo wrote:

> Have you tried CSound?  It's not realtime (well, on a RISC computer some
> functions are), but it's FREE.

Oh, of course!  How silly of me to have forgotten.  Csound (or some versions
of it) will write Sound Designer files, which you can play back through
an Audiomedia card with Digi software.  Maybe you can generate stuff in Csound,
then cut and mix it in Sound tools or Pro Tools (and process it!).

And you've still got real-time DSP fucntions in MAX!

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au

P.S. There are also other tools like Lemur (available from Dartmouth I think).
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:23:05 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Christian Roth <a8706976@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?
In-Reply-To:  <9607171059.ZM11451@frollo>

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 10:59:25 -0700, you wrote:

>anybody on this list using kyma?  it's a real-time sound-renderer, but with
>interactive software controls etc.  the web page is:

Which hardware is it using?
+----------------------------------------------------
|Christian Roth
|
|film + musik
|e-mail: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at
+----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:22:52 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Christian Roth <a8706976@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews
In-Reply-To:  <01I784LVAAP48X293F@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>

>We Australians read your prices and drool.  I'll give an example.  The new
>8-channel analog controlled compressor from PreSonus retails at US$800
>(about A$1000).  Retail here?  A$1995.  Yes, you read correctly.

This seems to be a general phenomenon. We Europeans suffer from the
same 'disease'.

For example, it would be cheaper to fly to NY, buy a PowerMac and pay
taxes and customs here, than to buy it from a local store.

The only problem is warranty. You'd have to carry it back to the
States in case...

Chris.
+----------------------------------------------------
|Christian Roth
|
|film + musik
|e-mail: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at
+----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:34:56 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Parham <jparham@IVCF.ORG>
Organization: IVCF National Service Center
Subject:      DAT Recorders

Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note
From: Jonathan Parham
To:  'SMTP:EMUSIC-L@American.edu'
Subject:  DAT Recorders
Date: 1996-07-18 11:00
Priority:
Message ID: 08E407A1
Conversation ID: 08E407A1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone,
     I have been given the task or researching digital recorders for our
studio.  We are a video production house with analog editing and non linear
editing (media composer100).  The majority of our work is field recording
and in house recording of narrators and readings etc.
     I would like to know what dat recorders or ir 8 traks (Alesis, or RD-8
etc)  would you recommend?
     Also what software based sound editing software would you recommned on
an MAC platform?


Thanks,
Jonathan Parham
Audio Manager 2100 Productions
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:43:01 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?

>basically, i'm getting real sick of sample-playback synths, and want to make
>the move.

Oh, me too. But the Yamaha physical modelling hardware is cheaper than Kyma...

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:22:20 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: any kyma users out there?
In-Reply-To:  <01I785CQ69408X293F@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU> from "David Rodger" at
              Jul 18, 96 05:24:58 pm

David Rodger writes--
>
>BTW, on that note, this might be better discussed on synth-l? Joe? Mike?

We're getting into that realm, yeah. (BTW, don't expect too much
feedback from Joe for a while; he just eloped on Monday. ;)

mike the tattletale

--
Me: "You know what you oughta do....? Start up a MIDI Widows Mailing List!"
The Mrs.: "No time. We're too busy keeping house while you play with gear."
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:28:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "M. Ray McFerron" <PBoulez1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: DAT Recorders

for software editing, you can't go wrong with Pro Tools w/ Sound designer.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:53:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         John Krikawa <JKRIKAWA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: DAT Recorders

>Hello everyone,
>     I have been given the task or researching digital recorders for our
>studio.  We are a video production house with analog editing and non linear
>editing (media composer100).  The majority of our work is field recording
>and in house recording of narrators and readings etc.

In the field just about any decent brand portable DAT should do. Make
sure it has XLR jacks/phantom power and AES/EBU digital outputs.  I
have a Tascam DA-P1 which I have been pretty pleased with, but I believe
it only spits out SPDIF (not sure, and could care even less).  It has
a battery pack that slides into the machine and lasts up to 2 hours.
You could always get a few extra battery packs if you were out on long
shoots.

In the studio, you could use the same DAT machine (portable).  If you're
thinking of getting an 8-track, consider the Tascam DA-88.  I personally
like the Alesis ADAT-XT, but most of the film/video houses around here
and in California use the DA-88.  I believe it has SMPTE capabilities
right out of the box and the compatibilty with other studios may be a
plus.

For maximum in-house versatility (voice over+music+ambient+foley) you
should look at a ProTools system as M. Ray McFerron pointed out.

You will probably need a mixer to go along with the multitrack tape
recorders; however, with ProTools, you can assemble the mix from within the
ProTools environment, eliminating the absolute necessity of mixer channels.
I have no idea how well ProTools or SoundDesigner works with SMPTE.

BTW, this is kind of gear-headed and may be better on SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU
(but hey, Joe's not around right now, so let's party!!!)
-john
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu        Tucson, Arizona         homepage-less
day: (520) 626-6013
night: (520) 326-3068
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:50:10 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Crandall <dcrand1@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: DAT Recorders
In-Reply-To:  <31ee67b0.ivcforg@ivcf.org>

On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Jonathan Parham wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>      I have been given the task or researching digital recorders for our
> studio...

Somebody already recommended Pro Tools, and I agree, but at my place we go
to digital multitrack tape before mix for the extra security and also so
we can stack up a few units if we need to go beyond 24 tracks.

We use Alesis ADATs because we came to commercial work via record
production.  (hint: get the new machines, used ADATs may be really quirky)
If you're going to do much with the film world, the Tascam DA-series is
pretty much the standard there.

Pro Tools/Sound Designer would be the software of choice; it's broadly
used in the industry.  Check out used "4-4-2" systems: moving to the
present version (Pro Tools III/Pro Tools Project) requires purchase of a
complete setup and folks may be getting rid of old systems.  Pro Tools
uses dynamic allocation so you can create a lot of "virtual tracks" which,
on the old system, can play up to 4 sounds at a time (but by cross-fading
on the same track, etc., you can get a lot out of 4 "voices", especially
if you lay them off to multitrack in multiple layers).  OSC's Deck II is
pretty friendly, especially if you have a power mac, but the proprietary
file management setup is a major flaw IMHO, and there's no dynamic
allocation as far as I've seen.

Don't know much about digital hard disk multitrackers, but I'd love to
hear folks' reports on reliability, etc.  (any machines out there with
Midi Machine Control?)

David Crandall
Sound Designer, Clean Cuts Music
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:06:56 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: The porpoises of academic emusic
In-Reply-To:  <v02130508ae111b41de4a@[204.56.70.191]> from "Alan M. Bookmiller"
              at Jul 16, 96 06:15:58 am

Alan M. Bookmiller writes--
>
>>It's taken me a very long time not to be
>>emotionally wounded when people say they dislike the music my band
>>puts out ...
>
>Mike, please go on, we who have never suffered this phenomenon are greatly
>interested in hearing more. Please explain what it is like ;  ).

Hmf. Meaning no one's ever disliked your music, or you never put any out? :)

mike
--
Me: "You know what you oughta do....? Start up a MIDI Widows Mailing List!"
The Mrs.: "No time. We're too busy keeping house while you play with gear."
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:59:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Costs on Nord Equipment
In-Reply-To:  <01BB7314.B5873DA0@h108-5-110.ccnet.com> from "Vinny Fiorenza" at
              Jul 16, 96 12:40:19 pm

Hopefully I'll be able to touch on the point raised by Les Freres
Australiennes here as well...

Vinny Fiorenza writes--
>
>:Well, as an ex-freelance gear reviewer and editor of one of those
>:"rags," all I can say is that I wish your accusations were true; it'd
>:have made equipping my studio a lot cheaper.
>
>yeah, i was 'kinda harsh on my initial post. [...]

Seems you had reason to be upset, but that's not a great time to post
stuff.  I try to calm down before posting anything when hot under the
collar; for instance, my initial response to yours was extremely
combative and had very little constructive content in it. I slept on
it and rewrote it the next day, with better results.

>Perhaps i was wrong.  Calming down a bit, thinking more sensibly, it just
>appeared that way initially to me as I have never read a *real* critical review
>of any product which led me to believe {perhaps incorrectly..}
>that the manufacturer had some influence as to the favorable outcome.

The thing is, Vinny, it's easy to jump to that conclusion. Bad reviews
*are* definitely rare. And there are reasons for that, which vary from
magazine to magazine and product to product. (The division between
objective and subjective material, as pointed out by Clive and David,
is a major source of difficulty in reviews, but by no means the only
one.) But they DO happen, if rarely...a recent example is KEYBOARD'S
less than stellar review of the Yamaha ProMix 01 automated mixer.

>Sorry for my insensitive spouting off at the mouth.. I'm usually not that way.

Oh, I am. Not to worry. :)

>BTW, what magazine did you write stuff for?  I'd be interested in
>checking it out.

Not "did," DO. I'm the Assistant Editor of RECORDING, and I edit
reviews every month as well as do some of my own. Before I started
there, I freelanced for several other magazines as well. You can find
articles by me in the February 1996 RECORDING and the current issue of
MUSIC & COMPUTERS, and the March, July and August issues of RECORDING
all have gear reviews I've written, as freelancer and staffer. I'm
told that my last article submission as a freelancer, a long review of
the Technics SX-WSA1, will appear in the COMPUTER MUSIC JOURNAL this
fall. I hope they remember to send me a copy. (Longtime CMJ fans
please note that my boss at RECORDING has specifically said that he
doesn't regard the CMJ as a conflict of interest, so I'll continue to
write for them on occasion.)

I wasn't kidding when I said I wished your claims were right; I had to
sell one of my other synths to keep the Prophecy I reviewed, and I
really didn't want to send back either the QS6 or the VS-880 when I
finished with them. Not to mention the-- oh, but that would be telling. :)

mike
--
Me: "You know what you oughta do....? Start up a MIDI Widows Mailing List!"
The Mrs.: "No time. We're too busy keeping house while you play with gear."
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:54:59 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Terrance McDermott <terry@KLANG.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      musicworks mag

I'd like to subscribe to the MusicWorks magazine from Canada.
I live in Australia.
Can anyone give me any details on how to subscribe?
Thanks in advance

Terry McDermott
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:55:26 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Kai Schwirzke <kschwirz@RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

At 09:22 18.07.1996 GMT, you wrote:

>For example, it would be cheaper to fly to NY, buy a PowerMac and pay
>taxes and customs here, than to buy it from a local store.
>
>The only problem is warranty. You'd have to carry it back to the
>States in case...

..and you have to get used to the American keyboard layout. Which is
undoubtedly a massive pain in the ass if you're not going to use 7 Bit ASCII
exclusively :)

Kai
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:58:52 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: DAT Recorders

Hi DAT buyers,

What John Krikawa said is valid.

However, your being a video production house probably requires that you
have a time code (or at least syncable) recorder.  You probably used
Nagras or Uher analogues with a pilot tone or time code track before
now.  Or you received tapes striped in this way.

Since more recordists are using time code DATs, I would have thought you
might need a time code DAT machine, even if you are ultimately going to
transfer to Pro tools or DA88.

Examples:
Sony's 7000 series.  Certain of these had (maybe still have?) problems.
Otari DT9000
Fostex D10 upgraded with TC card
Fostex D20, D20B, D25 and D30 (very expensive!)
Fostex PD2, PD4 or HHB portadat PDR1000TC - if you need a portable

Dat-heads has a 'market listing' which is quite helpful.  You might also
want to join the dat-heads mailing list, but be careful: it's populated
mostly by Deadheads and stealth tapers.

http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/dat-heads/    (I think)

Hope this helps,
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:21:35 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Terrance McDermott <terry@KLANG.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: DAT Recorders

>Hello everyone,
>     I have been given the task or researching digital recorders for our
>studio.  We are a video production house with analog editing and non linear
>editing (media composer100).  The majority of our work is field recording
>and in house recording of narrators and readings etc.

I recently had the experience of finding that my ADAT tape which was recorded
on an Alesis machine would play on the Fostex equivalent, but the Fostex would
not read the time code, or recognise that the tape was in the machine. In other
words, any kind of cueing/slaving was not possible. So much for an industry
standard. Be careful.

Terry McDermott
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:49:48 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Terrance McDermott <terry@KLANG.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

>For example, it would be cheaper to fly to NY, buy a PowerMac and pay
>taxes and customs here, than to buy it from a local store.
>
>The only problem is warranty. You'd have to carry it back to the
>States in case...

Mail order is, apparently, the way to go.

Terry
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:45:05 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Woody Bosco <ovo@BLUEHAWK.COM>
Subject:      OVO SOUND-ARTS

Hello,

I'm very proud of this new endeavor and I hope you'll check us out.


We are a new independant music site promoting new talent and
new music to cyberspace. The artists we promote and the work
they create, are unknown in many cases, to the mass media.
Here at OVO they have a chance to be seen and heard on
computers all over the world so that "Cyberspacians"
everywhere can enjoy as well as purchase their work.

We, along with so many other independants, are encouraging
the growth of an audience who listens to good music, and
cares about the future of planet earth. One dollar from the
sale of every Ovo CD or cassette will be donated to "SAVE
THE EARTH FOUNDATION" and maybe the future children of the
world will not experience the  frustration of not being able
to swim in the oceans or play at a park.

We chose the name "OVO", because it relates to what
everything starts out as... "an egg". Our primary goal is to
strive toward good music and to a long and happy life for
all of God's creations.



OVO SOUND-ARTS MUSIC SCORING
*****************************

"A new
world of music for film, video, and CD-ROM"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Can't quite afford John Barry or Alan Sylvestri for your projects just yet?
Give us a try.  And even if you can afford them, give us a try anyway.

Unique, beautiful musical landscapes...composed from digital instruments
recreating beautiful sounds.  Ovo Sound-Arts is creating new, exciting, and
beautiful music.  This comprises the Ovo Sound-Arts
portfolio.  It's intensely melodic, and rhythmic...perfect for creating just
the right mood for your project.

We will provide you with a contemporary score that will appeal to
present-day audiences.


Full Production Facilities are available at our recording studio, SILVER
BULLIT RECORDERS, located in the small mountain community of Dolan Springs,
75 miles from Las Vegas in Northwestern Arizona.

Our recording studio specializes in synthesis.



Thank you and we hope to see you at our new site.


Woody Neel Bosco

====================================================================
OVO SOUND-ARTStm                         SAVE THE EARTH FOUNDATION
"Music For Cyberspace"                   http://www.commerce.com/save_earth/
http://www.bluehawk.com/ovo

      ---
     (o o)
     / v \
   //:   :\\
     \m m/:
  ***********
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Jul 1996 21:12:46 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

>On the other hand, the comment 'tinny piano sounds' is of no help to me
>until I hear them for myself.

"Oh, wow! A module which can do convincing tinny piano sounds! I must have one!"

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Jul 1996 07:02:17 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         harry haecker <haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV>
Subject:      Re: OVO SOUND-ARTS

>I'm very proud of this new endeavor and I hope you'll check us out...

Gosh, how did  _this_ ooze past the emusic discussion list's 16 pole
analogue/digital resonant anti-commercial filter????  Not that I think it's
a bad endeavor, but really!

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:26:41 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Woody Bosco <ovo@BLUEHAWK.COM>
Subject:      An Apology

I guess some secretaries have to be drawn a complete diagram of where to
post and where not to post.

Sorry if any inconvenience was caused.

Woody Neel Bosco

====================================================================
OVO SOUND-ARTStm                         SAVE THE EARTH FOUNDATION
"Music For Cyberspace"                   http://www.commerce.com/save_earth/
http://www.bluehawk.com/ovo

      ---
     (o o)
     / v \
   //:   :\\
     \m m/:
  ***********
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

>>I'm very proud of this new endeavor and I hope you'll check us out...
>
>Gosh, how did  _this_ ooze past the emusic discussion list's 16 pole
>analogue/digital resonant anti-commercial filter????  Not that I think it's
>a bad endeavor, but really!
>
>Harry Haecker
>(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Jul 1996 23:36:05 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Christian Roth <a8706976@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Subject:      Re: An Apology
In-Reply-To:  <18264139004903@bluehawk.com>

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:26:41 -0700, you wrote:

>I guess some secretaries have to be drawn a complete diagram of where to
>post and where not to post.

Sure, blame it on secretaries, always ;)!


+----------------------------------------------------
|Christian Roth
|
|film + musik
|e-mail: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at
+----------------------------------------------------

