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Date:         Sun, 4 Aug 1996 07:03:23 -0400
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              <LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9607D"
To: Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Status: RO

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:05:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Tony Cappellini <newshirt@BEST.COM>
Subject:      Jarre at the Olympics ?

Did any of you hear JM Jarre's "Orient Express" song during the opening
ceremonies ?
It was nice to hear his music in such an open forum, for a change. I wonder
how many people at the ceremony know who he his :))

Tony
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Jul 1996 16:46:47 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?

> Did any of you hear JM Jarre's "Orient Express" song during the
> opening ceremonies ?

And there was Chronologie 4 also...

--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Jul 1996 22:45:36 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?
In-Reply-To:  <31F242D7.67F9@mail.telepac.pt> from "Paulo Mouat" at Jul 21,
              96 04:46:47 pm

Paulo Mouat writes--
>
>> Did any of you hear JM Jarre's "Orient Express" song during the
>> opening ceremonies ?
>
>And there was Chronologie 4 also...

No and yes. It was indeed "Chronologie 4" but the other track was
"Rendez-Vous 4", not "Orient Express." They had those two tracks,
alternating with two Tangerine Dream tracks, alternating in a loop
with some orchestral music during the parade of the athletes. I
wonder if they paid royalties properly for the TD songs? One was
from "Poland" and the other was the theme music to "Streethawk."
So there was a TV connection there already. (Actually, NBC may
own the rights to "Streethawk", which would cover this use.)

I liked the fact that the French walked in to Jarre and the
Germans walked in to TD, tho. ;)

mike
--
Me: "You know what you oughta do....? Start up a MIDI Widows Mailing List!"
The Mrs.: "No time. We're too busy keeping house while you play with gear."
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:24:23 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU
Subject:      Re: Equipment Reviews

>>On the other hand, the comment 'tinny piano sounds' is of no help to me
>>until I hear them for myself.
>
>"Oh, wow! A module which can do convincing tinny piano sounds! I must have
>one!"
>
But they're never really convincingly tinny, are they?  One reason my
'Concerto for tinny piano' never got written.  For the other reason, see
under 'talent, lack of'.

Regards

Clive

Clive McFarland         CSIRO Australia         clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:14:16 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Ullrich Peter <ullrich@KAPSCH.CO.AT>
Subject:      Who was looking for CASIO-Service Manuals ?

Wasn«t there someone looking for CASIO organ service manuals ?
I found two manuals at home:

CASIO CT-620
CASIO CT-320

If still interested in one of them please Email me privately...

Peter


        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                    Ing. Peter Ullrich     mailto: ullrich@kapsch.co.at
                    Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
   .oooO            KAPSCH AG / SGB2                   Vienna / Austria
   (   )   Oooo.            Traffic Control and Transmission Technology
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:45:10 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?

I forgot to mention, there were some piece(s) by Yanni also.

--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:26:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Cody Westheimer <codella@WEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?

I forgot to mention, there were some piece(s) by Yanni also.

Yeah, I heard Santorini by Yanni. All of the orchestral songs were played
by the boston pops and conducted by John Williams.  Don't you love his new
theme?  What a genius!

-Cody

=_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
Cody Westheimer   ___________/                  "Life is like a music note,

codella@west.net |_|__|______\________________ once you're played,you're just
                           _|_|_______________|  another note on the page"
Visit my webpage: http://www.west.net/~kande/codella.html
=_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_=-_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:48:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         John Krikawa <JKRIKAWA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?

>>I forgot to mention, there were some piece(s) by Yanni also.
>
>Yeah, I heard Santorini by Yanni. All of the orchestral songs were played
>by the boston pops and conducted by John Williams.  Don't you love his new
>theme?  What a genius!
>
>-Cody

It was pretty at first, but then got a little too thick for my tastes.
He is wonderful, but the new piece didn't overwhelm me.

-john
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu        Tucson, Arizona         homepage-less
day: (520) 626-6013
night: (520) 326-3068
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:10:45 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics ?

>It was nice to hear his music in such an open forum, for a change.

As opposed to, say, the whole of Paris?

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:31:12 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Robert M. Sanders" <RMSanders@SMTPGATE.READ.TASC.COM>
Subject:      Who do we think we're composing for?

Let me punctuate the void with the above rhetorical question.

Each piece composed will have an intended audience, even if that
audience is implicit. Further, part of the audience may be more important
to the composer than other parts of the audience. And this may vary
with time as the composer matures and the audience/culture evolves.

Define a demographic space as an N-dimensional space spanning the
audience for a given piece. Each of the dimensions corresponds to a
critical demographic variable, such as age. For fun, let's use age and
income to define a two dimensional demographic space. These two
variables were chosen rather arbitrarily for demonstration purposes; in
reality I don't target my audience based on their age or income, and
neither do you.

The x-axis is age, and the y-axis is income. Each point (x, y) on the plane
corresponds to the subset of the audience whose age is approximately
x years old and who makes y dollars per year. Also, the audience
density at this point is of interest. Audience density is about zero for
x>=120 for instance.  Let's call the density of the audience with age=x
and income=y:

audience density      d(x,y).

The response or reaction that an audience member will feel to the piece
can be predicted, to a certain accuracy by the polling survey methods
used in marketing analyses. Let's define this response as a number
between -1 and +1 where 0 is no measurable reaction, -1 is repulsion,
and +1 is the ideal response. Response is statistically dependent on the
demographic variables, and the composition i:

average response r(x,y,i)

A more sophisticated model would consider the distribution of responses
at each demographic point. This would more fully capture the fact that
any point (x,y) may include:

* monster truck racing fans
* bank robbers
* philosophy graduate students
* tone deaf shower singers
* EMUSIC-L subscribers

By multiplying the audience density at each demographic point (x,y) by
it's response, you, in effect, weight the response to take in to account
the size of the audience responding. This allows you to more fairly
compare the reaction of 118 year old billionaires to 22 year old yuppies to
your art. Let's call this weighted response:

densitiy weighted response wd(x,y) = r(x,y) * d(x,y)

We may also factor in additional concerns, such as ability to purchase an
album. In our simplistic model, we'll just weight the purchasing ability by
the natural log of the audience's income y, combine it with the audience
density to create a "purchase-power wieghted" audience on which to
impose our compositions:

purchase-power weighted audience wp(x,y) = d(x,y) * ln(y)

Note that wp(x,y) is independent of the piece being evaluated. In this
sample case, wp(x,y) is a surface like a topological map. Where the
mountains are located is where the target audience is located. The next
step is to custom compose a piece which maximizes the response over
the target audience located at the peaks in the purcase power weighted
curve. Let's call this the panderable function:

panderability function p(i) = s [r(x,y,i) * wp(x,y)] summed over all x and y

by varying key characteristics of the piece i, such as rythmic
syncopation, instrumentation and tempo, we can maximize the overall
response across the demographic space, thereby pandering to the
audience in an optimum way. If pieces i and j both yield the same
panderability, choose the one requiring the least amount of effort to
complete.

-rob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:10:49 GMT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Christian Roth <a8706976@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?
In-Reply-To:  <s1f3bb45.074@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

...not for mathematicians <g>?


+----------------------------------------------------
|Christian Roth
|
|film + musik
|e-mail: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at
+----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:05:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Tony Cappellini <newshirt@BEST.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics
Comments: To: nick@CASSIEL.COM

>It was nice to hear his music in such an open forum, for a change.

Nick Rothwell replied with ....
>>As opposed to, say, the whole of Paris?


Nick

what I was trying to say was, it was refreshing to hear JMJ's music outside
of a studio crammed full of gear.
The ONLY time I hear his music is when I'm sitting in front of my computer
usually doing email (like now) and I have one of his CD's playing. I've
never heard any of his music on any radio station. The only other time I've
heard his music was during the soundtrack for the movie Gallipoli (sp?),
which I saw while I was in Australia (of all places) :)

The last place I would expect to hear it would be during the Olympics.
But, as I said, I was pleasantly surprised, and thought it was well placed.
I didn't catch the TD though. I'm glad Mike brought that up.


Tony
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:08:36 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Gene Sewell <genes@FAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

:-)

We're not worthy!

Gene
----
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong
gives it a superficial appearance of being right.
        -- Thomas Paine
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:55:36 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Parham <jparham@IVCF.ORG>
Organization: IVCF National Service Center
Subject:      Software Platforms

Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note
From: Jonathan Parham
To:  'EMUSIC-L@American.edu'
Subject:  Software Platforms
Date: 1996-07-23 09:22
Priority:
Message ID: 1FD92F03
Conversation ID: 1FD92F03

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,
     I could use some help.  I am currently researching non linear audio
editing software.  I'm would be using it to do sound design in a video
production house.  We currently do our video editing by an Avid Media
Composer 900 which uses a Mac 9500.  I would like to be able to do 6 track
audio sessions and then transfer them by zip/jazz over to the Avid.  I have
not purchased the computer platform yet.  I have seen Deck II with Sound
Edit 16 and Pro Tools III.

I would like to know the following:
1)   Of these software choices which would everyone recommend?

2)  What is the minimum computer platform I can have(ie  a mac 7500 or
lower?)

3)  Clue me in on digidesigns software choices.  ( I have a hard time
understanding their web site).  For instance, can't I run Protools III with
just an audio media III card or do I have to have the 880/io


Thanks

Jonathan Parham
2100Productions
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:24:57 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics

>what I was trying to say was, it was refreshing to hear JMJ's music outside
>of a studio crammed full of gear.

I guess things are very different in the US. Jarre doesn't get that much
airplay here (compared to mainland Europe) but his massive, high-profile,
open-air shows are pretty legendary, and his music is really associated
with this context.

Hang on: he played Houston, didn't he? That was the sort of thing I meant.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:59:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Ben Cox <cox@TRANSARC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics
In-Reply-To:  <v0151010bae1a4f66e6d9@[158.152.9.55]>

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Nick Rothwell wrote:
> Hang on: he played Houston, didn't he? That was the sort of thing I meant.

Indeed he did, complete with laser show.  There is (was?) a live
recording available of that performance.

I was in town when it happened, but didn't get to go. :^(

__
Ben Cox                                 cox@transarc.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:38:16 EDT
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "william.b.fox" <wbf@ALOFT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

This being a few years beyond 1984 and very commercial (capitalistic)
times, I'm positive that I'm merely a point on a panderability plot in
some marketing office.

Bill Fox        wbf@aloft.att.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:53:01 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Software Platforms

Hi Jonathan,
this thread about audio editing might be better on synth-l (which is the
'gearhead' list), but I'll answer it here and Joe or Mike can kick us off
if they want.  Also, others have mentioned a DAW newsgroup.  Perhaps someone
can remind us of where it is.  (I don't look at newsgroups for the same
reason I don't have cable TV!)

> I would like to be able to do 6 track audio sessions
[and]
> just an audio media III card or do I have to have the 880/io

If you need to record more than 2 tracks at a time, you'll need an interface
with more than just a stereo input.

If, OTOH, you are doing them 1 or 2 at a time, a stero input will suffice.

> 1)   Of these software choices which would everyone recommend?

Well, Pro Tools (and the older Sound Designer) is nice.  You message is
not specific.  Do you need to record a maximum of 6 tracks which you then
mix and send to the Avid?  Or do you need to transfer all 6 tracks to the
Avid?  (Are doing a 5.1 channel surround mix?)

Once you decide what you need to do, get some advice from a vendor.  take
into account mixing, EQ and effects.  There are software plug-ins which
may require extra DSP especially if you are applying them to many tracks.
Digi makes DSPFarm cards as well as I/O cards.  Once you know the total
needs, you can then get advice to answer the question:

> 2)  What is the minimum computer platform I can have

(Also remember the number of PCI slots each model offers.)

Finally, if you decide to get more screen real-estate (to make the interface
easier) you might need extra VRAM or even an accelerated video card (which
will eat another PCI slot).

BTW, anyone oticed how Power Computing advertises its PowerTowers with 3
PCI slots _and_ a video card?  What they _don't_ say is that the video
card leaves you with only 2 slots.  If you look at the picture closely,
you can see this!

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that
hiP_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:56:17 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Jarre at the Olympics

Hi Jarre fans,
Nick said...

> his massive, high-profile,
> open-air shows are pretty legendary, and his music is really associated
> with this context.

I take some solace in the fact that Australia is such a small market that,
unless JM decides he has to do something with some of our Aboriginal
indigines outside the Sydney Opera House, he"ll _never_ come here to
perform (woo-hoo)!

Expecting a scorching
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:39:42 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

WHOM CARES!!!!!!!!!!!
RPC
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:23:37 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Crandall <dcrand1@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Software Platforms
In-Reply-To:  <01I7G379NMWK8X3NB2@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>

Just to add to the pot...

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, David Rodger wrote:

> ...others have mentioned a DAW newsgroup.  Perhaps someone
> can remind us of where it is.

Hear, hear!

    [from the original post] ...can't I run Protools III with
> > just an audio media III card or do I have to have the 880/io

Yes the Protools line is confusing, but here's the breakdown AFAIK:

ProTools w/ Powermix - runs on Power Mac, 2 track I/O at a time, can use
Audiomedia II card for better A/D conversion, No TDM plug ins, Sound
Designer plug ins only (with Audiomedia card), not as cool as TDM but useful.

ProTools Project - up to 8 channels I/O at a time, no TDM plug ins, SD II
plug ins with the card.

Pro Tools III - up to 16 ch (or more?) I/O, TDM plug ins (lots of cool
eq, dynamics, reverb, etc.)

ProTools III does most of the heavy lifting on its DSP cards, so (AFAIK)
diff. processors will just make the interface faster or slower.  I haven't
seen any reviews yet of *just* the low-end ProTools products.  Anybody
have any pointers to that material? I'm also considering buying ProTools
w/Powermix.

This may seem off-topic to some, but I am currently collaborating on
conceptual/musique concrete work which is being done on just this sort of
system.  Electronic music or not?  Thread away...

Later,
dcrand1@umbc.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:34:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: musicworks mag
Comments: To: terry@KLANG.LATROBE.EDU.AU

>I'd like to subscribe to the MusicWorks magazine from
>Canada. I live in Australia.
>Can anyone give me any details on how to subscribe?
>Thanks in advance

>Terry McDermott


Looking in the recent issue I discovered that the have a web page
http://www.musicworks.web.net/~sound/
and an email address
sound@musicworks.web.net
Hope this helps. It is a very cool magazine.
-Peter
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:51:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Software Awards

Just got this on the algo-comp list. Thought some folks here might be
interested.
-Peter

Subject: First International Music Software Competition

The First International Music Software Competition was organized
by the Interntional Institute of Electroacoustic Music in
Bourges, France. The competition was open to all music-related
freeware and shareware

Prizes

Category 1 -- Analysis/Synthesis out of Real-time
  Prize
    Tom Erbe (USA) for "SoundHack" for the Macintosh
  Mentions
    Vincent Lesbros (France) for "Phonogramme" for the Macintosh
    Michael Norris (New Zealand) for "SoundMaker Plug-ins" for
      the Macintosh

Category 2 -- Analysis/Synthesis in Real-time
  No prize or mentions awarded

Category 3 -- Computer-Assisted Composition
  Prize
    Heinrich Taube (USA) for "Common Music" for the Macintosh or
      UNIX platforms
  Mentions
    Philippe Domon (France) for "GGSM" for the Atari
    Luis Maria Rojas (Argentina) for "Texture" the PC

Category 4 -- Real-Time Gestural Control
  Prize
    Serge De Laubier (France) for "MIDI-Formers" for the Macintosh
  Mentions
    Simon Bolzinger (France) for "DKompose" for the Macintosh based
     on the work of Jean-Claude Risset and Scott Van Duyne
    Mark F. Stramaglia (USA) for "BackToBasics" for the Macintosh


Larry Larson
San Francisco






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>From: lrlarson@halcyon.com (Larry R. Larson)
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:24:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Electronic music or not? [was Re: Software Platforms]

> This may seem off-topic to some, but I am currently collaborating on
> conceptual/musique concrete work which is being done on just this sort
> of system.  Electronic music or not?  Thread away...

...And bait caught.

It is indeed very simple to distinguish both, regardless of the media
employed, but perhaps today it would be more appropriate to call it
electroacoustic music, so tangled in each other are both styles.

To put it in a few words, electronic music tries to synthesize all of
the world of sounds from simple components, while musique concrete tries
to exhibit that world by displaying its innards via electroacoustic
transformations.  Of course, on the latter the source is natural, while
on the former it is artificial.

So, it really depends on the base material you are working with, rather
than the method, although musique concrete had more of a 'hand-made/
mechanical' approach to it that contrasted with pure e-music.

Cheers!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:05:22 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG
Subject:      Re: Software Awards

rrrrx
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:30:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re[2]: Who do we think we're composing for?
Comments: To: a8706976@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT

Hopefully we are composing first for ourselves.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:55:13 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Jacky Schreiber <jackysch@VEN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Electronic music or not? [was Re: Software Platforms]

> This may seem off-topic to some, but I am currently collaborating on
> conceptual/musique concrete work which is being done on just this sort
> of system.  Electronic music or not?  Thread away...

...And bait caught.

It is indeed very simple to distinguish both, regardless of the media
employed, but perhaps today it would be more appropriate to call it
electroacoustic music, so tangled in each other are both styles.

To put it in a few words, electronic music tries to synthesize all of
the world of sounds from simple components, while musique concrete tries
to exhibit that world by displaying its innards via electroacoustic
transformations.  Of course, on the latter the source is natural, while
on the former it is artificial.

So, it really depends on the base material you are working with, rather
than the method, although musique concrete had more of a 'hand-made/
mechanical' approach to it that contrasted with pure e-music.

Cheers!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================
Anymore on this?
It's always been confusing whether electronic music is electroacoustic music o viceversa...
If I used sampled sounds and "synthetic" material, I'm I doing electronic, electric
or electroacoustic music?
Are Yanni, Jean Michel Jarre, or Vangelis more electroacoustic (or electronic) than
Henze, Thibault or Dolden? ("pop" versus "academic"?!"@#)

yours

jacky schreiber-----> jackysch@ven.net


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end
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:41:52 CST
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         harry haecker <haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV>
Subject:      Re: Software Awards

>Just got this on the algo-comp list. Thought some folks here might be
>interested.
>-Peter

Yes! Most certainly...but it begs the question "How can I try out and perhaps
buy this cool stuff?"

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:08:19 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Bacil C. Warren" <Azsouth@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

Well, now. I hope this posting is a humorous addition, but I will respond by
assuming it is not.

I write for specific uses, or for myself. Whenever I start trying to figure
out what might sell, what comes out is trash--I don't like it, and neither do
my clients.

I create with and for other creative people. Marketing is somebody else's
gig. If that's your gig, great. But it is a mistake to try to tie artistic
creativity to a statistical analysis. To illustrate the point, consider this:
is there any correlation between the recent dreadful performance of the major
television broadcast networks and the fact that the reins of control were in
the hands of beancounters? The beancounters say there is no correlation, but
most of the people I know seem to spend a lot of time these days hanging
around the higher channels of the cable (those that bother to watch at all).
The Olympics are an exception of course.

I compose because I must. If it sells, that's wonderful, but it has nothing
to do with my need to create.

--Chris
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:16:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Electronic <-> Electroacoustic

> It's always been confusing whether electronic music is electroacoustic
> music o viceversa...

As I explained earlier, electronic music is any kind of music produced
via electronic instruments with synthetic timbres.

There is a certain 'stance' associated with the term, which brings an
image of abstraction, seriousness and aridity, originated perhaps by the
strong adherence to strict rules and 'attitude' towards sound of the
early studios.

That's why, for instance, there was the Paris/Koeln war, for what was to
be considered proper music created through technology (Paris was the
forefront of Musique Concrete with composer Pierre Schaeffer, and Koeln
was in turn the forefront of Electronic Music with Stockhausen).  The
war was waged mainly because of the complete absence of rules by the
Concrete composers.

On the other hand, electroacoustic music pertains to that kind of music
that was produced with acoustic or natural instruments and sources,
and then processed with electronics.  And it is interesting to note that
these often do not refer to electronic instruments (sound sources), just
processing devices.

And this type of music carries with it a 'stance' too, that of the
composer spending endless days in the studio cutting bits of tape,
which he recorded previouly on a long walk, and jiggling with the speed
controls for the tape machine.

> If I used sampled sounds and "synthetic" material, I'm I doing
> electronic, electric or electroacoustic music?

Today, given the possibilities brought by technology, is more difficult
to precisely define where is the boundary, if we mean to speak in
purist terms.  But I would dare to say that electroacoustic music is
that music that focuses on processing sound, rather than producing, with
electronics.  Electronic music would then be the converse, although a
lot of processing may also be going on.

Best!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:22:54 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Electronic music or not? [was Re: Software Platforms]

Hi Jacky, Paulo
and other pondering the meaning of e-music.

Jacky wrote:
> It's always been confusing whether electronic music is electroacoustic music
> or vice versa.

Yes.  Now Paulo's definitions are a good starting point.  But then some
artists will apply so much (or at least very radical) processing to
acoustic/sampled sounds that the listener might well have grounds to
believe they are synthesized.  That the composer knows differently is
beside the point unless he or she chooses to reveal that to the audience.

> Are Yanni, Jean Michel Jarre, or Vangelis more electroacoustic (or electronic)> than Henze, Thibault or Dolden? ("pop" versus "academic"?!"@#)

Well, I think that Thibault certainly qualifies as an electroacoustic
composer because the original material (sampled/acoustic) is recognisable.
OTOH, Jarre has on occasion (e.g. Zoolook) used originally acoustic material.
I've only heard Dolden's large ensemble works (specifically, on "L'ivresse
de la vitesse"), so I can't make further comment about him.  It seems to me
(as one who admittedly has less experience of Yanni, Vangelis and Jarre --
mainly because I don't like their music!) that the former three are more
electronic because they have relied on synthesized sounds.
Oh, Thibault also qualifies as belonging to the ea school because he has
been associated with others before him (Canadian and French) who do and claim
to do ea rather than simply synth or e-music.

(For those not hip to it, ea means electroacoustic!)

As for 'pop' versus 'academic', the lines are blurred.  Unless someone has
anything enlightening on that subject, I for one would rather not debate
that!

Regrds, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:28:06 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Software Awards

Harry wrote...

>"How can I try out and perhaps buy this cool stuff?"

A good first step would be to look at the ICMA's home page:

http://coos.dartmouth.edu/~rsu/icma/icma.html

As you can see, a lot of things are for the Mac.

Otherwise, try places like IRCAM and UIowa (which have MAX object and patch
archives -- again Macintosh, but it is an indicator of what they're into):

ftp://ftp.ircam.fr/
ftp://serial.music.uiowa.edu/pub/

A third step might be to try web searches on these things.  Most have
home pages somewhere (or their authors do).

Hope this helps,
David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:33:59 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

Hi Chris...

> To illustrate the point, consider this:
> is there any correlation between the recent dreadful performance of the major
> television broadcast networks and the fact that the reins of control were in
> the hands of beancounters?

A recent issue of Suck claimed that your TV Guide magazine pulls more
revenue per annum than the three major networks combined!

http://www.suck.com/DailyArchive/

Look for the date 19 July 1996

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:47:09 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Ullrich Peter <ullrich@KAPSCH.CO.AT>
Subject:      WTB: Roland U110 soundcard 03 >>ETNIC SOUNDS<< (sorry not
              analogue)
Comments: To: SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: cc: analogue@hyperreal.com

Hi !

I am searching for the U-110 PCM-soundcard  >> ETHNIS SOUNDS<< !

I have been looking for a long time (Vienna, Hongkong, Singapur, Houston,
Indonesia) for this PCM-soundcard but could not find one.

If there is someone that can sell me one please send me an email !!!

If interested we could trade with an ELECTRIC PIANO PCM-card for the U-110.

Ciao4niao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                    Ing. Peter Ullrich     mailto: ullrich@kapsch.co.at
                    Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
   .oooO            KAPSCH AG / SGB2                   Vienna / Austria
   (   )   Oooo.            Traffic Control and Transmission Technology
----\ (----(   )-------------------------------------------------------
     \_)    ) /
           (_/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:18:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG
Subject:      Re: Re[2]: Who do we think we're composing for?

d
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:25:15 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Software Platforms
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SGI.3.91.960724130809.5286A-100000@umbc10.umbc.edu> from
              "David Crandall" at Jul 24, 96 01:23:37 pm

>
> This may seem off-topic to some, but I am currently collaborating on
> conceptual/musique concrete work which is being done on just this sort of
> system.  Electronic music or not?  Thread away...
>
Well, I'm certainly interested. One of my favorite pieces was done with
a Micromoog and a lot of tape editing. I'd love to find a digital
interface as easy to use as the razor blade and splicing tape.

 --- Joe M.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:47:44 -0500
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Stephen David Beck <sdb@LUIGI.MUSIC.LSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Electronic music or not?

David Rodger wrote:
>Well, I think that Thibault certainly qualifies as an electroacoustic
>composer because the original material (sampled/acoustic) is recognisable.
>OTOH, Jarre has on occasion (e.g. Zoolook) used originally acoustic material.
>It seems to me
>(as one who admittedly has less experience of Yanni, Vangelis and Jarre --
>mainly because I don't like their music!) that the former three are more
>electronic because they have relied on synthesized sounds.
>Oh, Thibault also qualifies as belonging to the ea school because he has
>been associated with others before him (Canadian and French) who do and claim
>to do ea rather than simply synth or e-music.
>
>(For those not hip to it, ea means electroacoustic!)

In the US, we have used the term electro-acoustic more broadly to include
computer music, electronic music (as described above), musique concrete or
acousmatique (described above as ea music).  But that is a remnant of the
historical differences between mid-century European electronic music
(mainly musique concrete) and early US electronic music (dominated by
synthesis).

Regardless of what you call it, I think David's classifications are
correct.  As far as "pop" vs "academic", lets try to avoid such meaningless
labels.  That battle has been fought longer than the Crusades...


 ========================================================================
Stephen David Beck              President, Society for Electro-Acoustic
School of Music                 Music in the United States (SEAMUS)
Louisiana State University
Baton Rouge, LA  70803-2504
USA
email:  sdb@comp.music.lsu.edu
http://www.music.lsu.edu/faculty/sbeck/sbeck.htm
http://comp.music.lsu.edu/seamus/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:42:27 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Robert M. Sanders" <RMSanders@SMTPGATE.READ.TASC.COM>
Subject:      Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply

Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?

If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
(answer: it ain't noise)

If I sample the Cage ...

oh, nevermind!!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:36:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re[2]: Software Awards
Comments: To: haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV

>Just got this on the algo-comp list. Thought some folks here might be
>interested.
>-Peter

Yes! Most certainly...but it begs the question "How can I try out and perhaps
buy this cool stuff?"

Harry Haecker
(haeckerh@nwrc.gov)

     That was my reaction, too. Wish I knew the answer. ;-/
     -Peter
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:25:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply
Comments: To: RMSanders@SMTPGATE.READ.TASC.COM

Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?

If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
(answer: it ain't noise)

If I sample the Cage ...

oh, nevermind!!!

     Gee, I hope your choice is Zappa's recording of 4'33". It's the last
     recording Zappa made (no foolin'. It's on a tridute disc to Cage. You
     can hear Zappa breathing, and rocking in his chair)
>-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
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>From: "Robert M. Sanders" <RMSanders@SMTPGATE.R
>Subject:      Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:45:05 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply

> Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?

I guess "silence" is all that...

> If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
> (answer: it ain't noise)

Cage would disagree.  Once he was asked by a guy from IRCAM if his
latest composition there wasn't going to turn out to be white noise.
He said: "I'm sure it'll be noise, but I doubt whether it'll be white."

Anyway, "4:33," as per the score instructions, is for any number of
instrumentalists playing any number of instruments, so it might qualify
as a mix of ea-, e-, and a-music.

> If I sample the Cage ...
>
> oh, nevermind!!!

Yes, nevermind...
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:45:42 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      European e-music

> But that is a remnant of the historical differences between
> mid-century European electronic music (mainly musique concrete)

I strongly disagree here.  Mid-Century European electronic is not really
Musique Concrete.  Let's not forget of the importance Koeln had, and the
major composers that went by.  Also, Milan (although a little later) was
a center of electronic music, just to refer the most important european
early electronic studios.  Paris was the focus of Musique Concrete, and
the only one, for quite some time.

Regards.
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:30:42 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Fredrik Montelius <sge95fmo@LUSTUDAT.STUDENT.LU.SE>
Organization: Students
Subject:      Re: Silence ; was:Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply

Peter Mueller wrote:
>
> Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?
>
> If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
> (answer: it ain't noise)
>
> If I sample the Cage ...
>
> oh, nevermind!!!
>
>      Gee, I hope your choice is Zappa's recording of 4'33". It's the last
>      recording Zappa made (no foolin'. It's on a tridute disc to Cage. You
>      can hear Zappa breathing, and rocking in his chair)

talking silence: have you heard the Jonathan Harvey piece "From
Silence"(1988) on Bridge BCD9031? It's not quiet, but silence plays an
important role in the piece, which is a beautiful one. Soprano (wow),
violin, viola, percussion, 3 e-keybords, computer, tape
> >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
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> >Subject:      Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply
> >To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:14:34 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Fredrik Montelius <sge95fmo@LUSTUDAT.STUDENT.LU.SE>
Organization: Students
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply

Peter Mueller wrote:
>
> Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?
>
> If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
> (answer: it ain't noise)
>
> If I sample the Cage ...
>
> oh, nevermind!!!
>
>      Gee, I hope your choice is Zappa's recording of 4'33". It's the last
>      recording Zappa made (no foolin'. It's on a tridute disc to Cage. You
>      can hear Zappa breathing, and rocking in his chair)
> >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging)
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> >From: "Robert M. Sanders" <RMSanders@SMTPGATE.R
> >Subject:      Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply
> >To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU

Silence is neither - it's simply the abstinence of sound.
On a deeper philosophical level one can argue that silences can vary in
character depending on its "origin", or depending on the absence of
would-be sound originating from a sound emitting object in a
geographical surrounding, but it's rather "dangerous" to put the
character of silence as a matter of circumstances outside of the
listener.
More often it is the listener's own "colouring" of his emotional state
that may cause him to classify varying qualities of silence.
A rather bad allegory can be made - a fanatic religious believer may
claim that he sees, hears, or communicate with an external god, rather
than understanding that his perception of the same external god emanates
from within.
I don't think any one hearing person has ever heard true silence.
If nothing else, there's always blood pumping around the veins in
conjunction to his hearing organs.
As to Cage's 4.33...one thing that is important is not really who
recorded the piece - it's more like the attentiveness of the listener.
A couple of years ago I attended a concert where Swedish pianist Hans
Paalson played the piece.
It was a poor performance, simply because Paalson directed the
listener's attention away from his listening to "the piece" and the
sounds related to the performance, and toward his own *person*.
That is definately the wrong way to do it, at least should one ask Cage
himself.
Favourite Cage piece: Winter Music.
All ears.
F. Montelius
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:02:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Jacky Schreiber <jackysch@VEN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Electronic music or not? [was Re: Software Platforms]

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Hi Jacky, Paulo
and other pondering the meaning of e-music.

Jacky wrote:
> It's always been confusing whether electronic music is electroacoustic =
music
> or vice versa.

Yes.  Now Paulo's definitions are a good starting point.  But then some
artists will apply so much (or at least very radical) processing to
acoustic/sampled sounds that the listener might well have grounds to
believe they are synthesized.  That the composer knows differently is
beside the point unless he or she chooses to reveal that to the =
audience.

> Are Yanni, Jean Michel Jarre, or Vangelis more electroacoustic (or =
electronic)> than Henze, Thibault or Dolden? ("pop" versus =
"academic"?!"@#)

Well, I think that Thibault certainly qualifies as an electroacoustic
composer because the original material (sampled/acoustic) is =
recognisable.
OTOH, Jarre has on occasion (e.g. Zoolook) used originally acoustic =
material.
I've only heard Dolden's large ensemble works (specifically, on =
"L'ivresse
de la vitesse"), so I can't make further comment about him.  It seems to =
me
(as one who admittedly has less experience of Yanni, Vangelis and Jarre =
--
mainly because I don't like their music!) that the former three are more
electronic because they have relied on synthesized sounds.
Oh, Thibault also qualifies as belonging to the ea school because he has
been associated with others before him (Canadian and French) who do and =
claim
to do ea rather than simply synth or e-music.

(For those not hip to it, ea means electroacoustic!)

As for 'pop' versus 'academic', the lines are blurred.  Unless someone =
has
anything enlightening on that subject, I for one would rather not debate
that!

Regrds, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hi Dave, Paulo:

Neither I like the music of Yanni or Jarre, but I do like those more =
complex, radical and=20
"cryptical" works by Thibault, Dolden, Truax and other composers that =
whether=20
"purely" synthetic and/or "purely" electroacoustic make a more =
"futuristic/sci-fi" music.=20
By chance or syncronicity they all come from the "academic" community. I =
neither want to debate this "pop" vs "academic" topic. But still, what =
are we doing.?...

regards
jacky


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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:03:42 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Jacky Schreiber <jackysch@VEN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

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Well, now. I hope this posting is a humorous addition, but I will respond by
assuming it is not.

I write for specific uses, or for myself. Whenever I start trying to figure
out what might sell, what comes out is trash--I don't like it, and neither do
my clients.

I create with and for other creative people. Marketing is somebody else's
gig. If that's your gig, great. But it is a mistake to try to tie artistic
creativity to a statistical analysis. To illustrate the point, consider this:
is there any correlation between the recent dreadful performance of the major
television broadcast networks and the fact that the reins of control were in
the hands of beancounters? The beancounters say there is no correlation, but
most of the people I know seem to spend a lot of time these days hanging
around the higher channels of the cable (those that bother to watch at all).
The Olympics are an exception of course.

I compose because I must. If it sells, that's wonderful, but it has nothing
to do with my need to create.

--Chris

=======================================
My composition situation is very similar to yours Chris, usually I co-create with
others to "bring to life" a project in wich emusic is needed, BUT I have to do the
marketing/negotiation as well, this is always frustrating simply because I don't
know the nuts and bolts of this "science".
And talking about marketing!, how do we put price to our work?, by the
minute/second of finished music?, by the number of ours involved in the project?,
are there any methods of calculating a fair rate to charge our clients?

jacky

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A53.C5F591A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:17:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Peter Mueller <Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re[2]: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic -Reply
Comments: To: sge95fmo@LUSTUDAT.STUDENT.LU.SE

Hmm. Something strange happened here. The stuff below that begin's "Is
'silence'..." through to "nevermind" I didn't write, I just added the wise-ass
suggestions about which recording of 4'33" to choose to sample. And yes I
realize the composition 4'33" is NOT silence, nor does it consist of silence.
(I thought silence is the name of the list devoted to discussing issues about
and around the subject of Cage and his music <g>) -Peter
Peter Mueller wrote:
>
> Is "silence" electronic, acoustic, ambient, electroacoustic or what?
>
> If I "play" the Cage piece (4:33?) on a synthesizer what is it?
> (answer: it ain't noise)
>
> If I sample the Cage ...
>
> oh, nevermind!!!
>
>      Gee, I hope your choice is Zappa's recording of 4'33". It's the last
>      recording Zappa made (no foolin'. It's on a tridute disc to Cage. You
>      can hear Zappa breathing, and rocking in his chair)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:24:10 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic / Cage + Harvey

> I don't think any one hearing person has ever heard true silence.
> If nothing else, there's always blood pumping around the veins in
> conjunction to his hearing organs.

And the nervous system working (that's the high frequency tone you
hear, when your surroundings are quiet enough).

> As to Cage's 4.33...one thing that is important is not really who
> recorded the piece - it's more like the attentiveness of the listener.
> A couple of years ago I attended a concert where Swedish pianist Hans
> Paalson played the piece.
> It was a poor performance, simply because Paalson directed the
> listener's attention away from his listening to "the piece" and the
> sounds related to the performance, and toward his own *person*.
> That is definately the wrong way to do it, at least should one ask
> Cage himself.

Cage's idea for "4.33" is exactly the attentiveness of the listener
towards the piece, which by not employing any sound, shifts attention
towards 'environmental' sounds.  Cage made a statement in that
direction, saying that there is so many interesting noises and timbres
beyond musical instruments that a piece consisting of silence would
bring to the front the usual background noise of an audience.  That's
what is supposed to be heard (by the listener, whereas the performer
has other ordeals).

In "4.33 part II" (in case you wonder, there *is* a "4.33 II," also
called "0.00") the performer has to make some noises this time.  He
writes (at random--what else?) on an old mechanical typewriter and
drinks a glass of water.  But these sounds are absurdly amplified, to
the point of Michael Nyman writing about it saying that when the
performer (at that occasion, Cage himself) drank the water, it seemed
like the auditorium was being flooded by a gigantic tidal wave.

The point in all of this, and the reason for those particular noises on
the second piece, is that noise surrounds us, and that it took/takes a
'formal' occasion for people to start to perceive them as sound events
of equal stature as an instrumental tone.  The idea is to hear everyday
life's sounds with attention, and to find the interesting aspects of
their diversity.

"I don't need a piano, I have 6th Avenue." (Cage)

> talking silence: have you heard the Jonathan Harvey piece "From
> Silence"(1988) on Bridge BCD9031? It's not quiet, but silence plays an
> important role in the piece, which is a beautiful one. Soprano (wow),
> violin, viola, percussion, 3 e-keybords, computer, tape

If you really want to *hear* silence, or perceive it's emptiness as an
accompanying part of the music, you should hear any one of Nono's
'Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima,' 'Hay que caminar sognando' or 'La
Lontananza Nostalgica Utopica Futura.'  The first is for string quartet,
the second for two violinists, the latter for solo violin and 8-track
tape.

I have the above mentioned Harvey piece, and I don't find it *that*
interesting.  Of Harvey, really really good is 'Mortuos Plango, Vivos
Voco,' for concrete sounds (the tenor bell of Winchester Cathedral and
his own son's voice) processed by computer.  The composition is
qualified as Spectral Music, for every parameter of its structure is
derived entirely from the spectral analysis of both timbres.  Moreover,
there are no other additional timbres on the piece, all sound material
is derived from transformations of the two.  If anyone would be
interested in having a taste of it, I could e-mail some excerpts (please
state preferred format--wav, au, aiff, etc, and yes, I'm aware and will
be careful on file size).

Cheers!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 03:34:10 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Bacil C. Warren" <Azsouth@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

David, et al.:

A perfect ten!

Oops, that might be interpreted by a statistician to mean that
[...fill in the blank].

Nice, supportive comments, but the message is fruitless if we can't get the
message across that it is okay, and not freakish, to be artistic and
creative.

--Chris
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 05:17:15 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Bacil C. Warren" <Azsouth@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Who do we think we're composing for?

Jacky wrote:

My composition situation is very similar to yours Chris, usually I co-create
with
others to "bring to life" a project in wich emusic is needed, BUT I have to
do the
marketing/negotiation as well, this is always frustrating simply because I
don't
know the nuts and bolts of this "science".
And talking about marketing!, how do we put price to our work?, by the
minute/second of finished music?, by the number of ours involved in the
project?,
are there any methods of calculating a fair rate to charge our clients?

The problem is essentially this: art of any kind is either priceless or
worthless, but it is much more complicated than that simple statement. Having
said that, I reject as unrealistic the computations which began this
discussion.

Each project has a budget, and the composer should reap a benefit from the
project budget. What percentage that should be is subject to negotiation,
such as how important to the project is the music, the hours required, and
whether live players need to be employed as well as musical synthesis.

If possible, colloborate with friends, and work out the percentages. If given
the opportunity to work on a major project, work out the best deal you can
get. You might need to hire an entertainment lawyer (ugh!) or an agent
(ditto!).

Do I have these answers, really? No, because each situation is different. I
have been grossly overpaid once, and typically paid at about 10-20 percent
what I thought my time was worth.

It often comes down to contacts, not statistics. If you want to generate huge
numbers, you'll have to get out of your studio, talk to some high rollers,
and get some beancounters involved. If you're lucky, the beancounters will
listen.  If not, you can always go back to what you KNOW--MUSIC.

Did that help? Not a whole lot, I'd guess. If this was easy, we probably
wouldn't need to talk about it. If the statistical setup encourages you, try
it. It does not appeal to me, but I've been wrong, and will be often.

The bottom line is this: Compose your best stuff. If you have to market your
material personally, stand by your best self. If asked to change your
material, don't reject the request immediately. Consider carefully whether it
can be done within your overall plan. If so, do it! If not, kindly decline,
but try to leave an opening for additional negotiation or opportunity.

--Chris
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:01:10 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Software Platforms

Hi Joe

> I'd love to find a digital
> interface as easy to use as the razor blade and splicing tape.

Couldn't you splice the tape on some of the early 3M digital machines?
(with nary a complaint!)

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://I'm_not_that_hip_yet!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:02:12 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         John Krikawa <JKRIKAWA@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic / Cage + Harvey

>> I don't think any one hearing person has ever heard true silence.
>> If nothing else, there's always blood pumping around the veins in
>> conjunction to his hearing organs.
>
>And the nervous system working (that's the high frequency tone you
>hear, when your surroundings are quiet enough).

Never heard that one before.

-john
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu        Tucson, Arizona         homepage-less
day: (520) 626-6013
night: (520) 326-3068
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:49:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Alan M. Bookmiller" <abook@PROXIMA.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic / Cage + Harvey

>>> I don't think any one hearing person has ever heard true silence.
>>> If nothing else, there's always blood pumping around the veins in
>>> conjunction to his hearing organs.
>>
>>And the nervous system working (that's the high frequency tone you
>>hear, when your surroundings are quiet enough).
>
>Never heard that one before.
>
>-john
------------------------------------

Oh yea! I drive my dog crazy when I'm emitting those high tones on
especially frantic days. If it gets really hectic my garage door opens and
closes continuously.

As for true silence, 19 or so of us email listees submitted music to a
compilation tape project, then sat back and heard absolutely nothing.

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:23:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City <atomic@NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Electronic <-> Electroacoustic / Cage + Harvey
In-Reply-To:  <v02130504ae1e0aa069da@[204.56.70.191]> from "Alan M. Bookmiller"
              at Jul 26, 96 01:49:17 am

Alan M. Bookmiller writes--
>>>
>>>And the nervous system working (that's the high frequency tone you
>>>hear, when your surroundings are quiet enough).
>>
>>Never heard that one before.
>>
>>-john

You wouldn't, John. ;)

>Oh yea! I drive my dog crazy when I'm emitting those high tones on
>especially frantic days. If it gets really hectic my garage door opens and
>closes continuously.
>
>As for true silence, 19 or so of us email listees submitted music to a
>compilation tape project, then sat back and heard absolutely nothing.

OW! Cheap shot, solving nothing. Eric has a life, y'know. Sheesh, have
a little patience.

mike
--
Me: "You know what you oughta do....? Start up a MIDI Widows Mailing List!"
The Mrs.: "No time. We're too busy keeping house while you play with gear."
 ==========================================================================
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  atomic@netcom.com  --  http://pd.net/atomic-city   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:35:06 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Nervous systems and garage doors.

> >>>And the nervous system working (that's the high frequency tone you
> >>>hear, when your surroundings are quiet enough).
> >>
> >>Never heard that one before.
> >>
> >>-john
>
> You wouldn't, John. ;)
>
> >Oh yea! I drive my dog crazy when I'm emitting those high tones on
> >especially frantic days. If it gets really hectic my garage door opens and
> >closes continuously.


:-) :-) ...

Now, out of any jokes, it's rather easy to try it.  Just make sure your
surroundings are quiet.  You should hear low-pitched sounds caused by
you blood being pumped *and* a very high continuous pitch from your
nervous system.  It is a common experience reported by visitors of
anechoic chambers.

Cheers!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Jul 1996 14:23:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG
Subject:      Re: Nervous systems and garage doors.

Actually, the only person who ever reported hearing such sounds weere
is John Cage. Never hesard anyone else say so. Have sopent many hours in anechoic.
So, don't belive all you read especially by JC
RPC
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:49:46 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         G Berry <gberry@ACCESS.EVE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Nervous systems and garage doors.

At 02:23 PM 07-27-96 -0400, you wrote:
>Actually, the only person who ever reported hearing such sounds weere
>is John Cage.

I've never heard about hearing the high-pitched sound of your own nervous
system, but I *have* heard reports of people hearing their blood flowing
through their veins. Too bad I don't have access to such a quiet location,
I'd like to give it a try. One thing to remember, just because you can't
hear it, doesn't mean that *no one* has ever heard it.

Glen Berry
gberry@access.eve.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Jul 1996 03:54:26 +0200
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Paulo Mouat <mouat@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject:      Nervous systems and Cage.

> Actually, the only person who ever reported hearing such sounds weere
> is John Cage. Never hesard anyone else say so. Have sopent many hours
> in anechoic.  So, don't belive all you read especially by JC

The actual story (and it wasn't in any book I read, it was on a
fragment of a video with Cage in that famous anechoic chamber) is not
an allegation by Cage.  He said he heard pitches, despite being in a
so-called absolutely silent environment.  The engineers were the ones
who came with such an explanation.

And there are reports by astronauts about experiencing the same.

Almost everything Cage writes is to be taken with a grain of salt.  This
is one exception.

Best!
--
  __|__
___\_/___
   ___      Paulo Mouat,
  |___|  mouat@mail.telepac.pt
  |___|

