========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 23:34:04 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bruce Edwards Subject: test apoligize for waste of bandwidth. just re-signed with emusic list about two weeks ago. received two days digests then nothing. the logic being that one needs to be "signed" to post so that if this goes through than it is merely that whoever is left on the list is not being particularly chatty regards ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 11:25:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nikki Halpern <101762.3705@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: David Tudor This article was just posted on the Max list. I thought it might be of interest to readers of this list as well. Ben Thigpen 101762.3705@compuserve.com ################ August 15, 1996 David Tudor, 70, Avant-Garde Composer and Performer By ALLAN KOZINN David Tudor, a composer and performer of avant-garde electronic music who was closely associated with John Cage and who succeeded him as the music director of the Merce Cunningham Dance Co. in 1992, died Tuesday at his home in Tomkins Cove, N.Y. He was 70. Mimi Johnson, his manager at Performing Artservices, said he had recently had a series of strokes, and died in his sleep. In many of his works, Tudor used a combination of taped and live sounds. Often, both the live and recorded sounds would be modified by electronic devices and computer programs that were designed to his specifications. And often the devices themselves were pieces of art. For "Web for John Cage II" (1989), for example, the instrument was a brass and gold spider web with a crystal spider. By touching the web with brushes, sponges, his fingers or the spider, Tudor produced sounds that were amplified and sent through a computer sound-modification program. There was a theatrical side to Tudor's music as well. "Reunion," a work on which he collaborated with several other composers and artists in 1968, was built around a chess game between Cage and Marcel Duchamp. Tudor's music was most frequently heard -- and was considered most effective -- in productions that involved collaborations with artists in other disciplines. Jacqueline Monnier and Robert Rauschenberg were among the visual artists with whom he worked. And he composed copiously for Cunningham. One of his most recent works for the Cunningham company, "Soundings: Ocean Diary," was performed at the Lincoln Center Festival '96 two weeks ago. Tudor came to prominence as a pianist who specialized in contemporary music. He gave the American premiere of Pierre Boulez's extraordinarily difficult Second Piano Sonata in New York in 1950. Karlheinz Stockhausen dedicated his "Klavierstuke IV" to him, and Tudor gave first performances of several other Stockhausen works. He also gave premieres of pieces by Earl Brown, Morton Feldman, Christian Wolff, Mauricio Kagel, Sylvano Bussotti and LaMonte Young, many of which he recorded. Yet it was to Cage's music that his ties were strongest. He gave the first performances of "Music of Changes" (1952), "4'33" " (1952) and the Concert for Piano and Orchestra (1958), and collaborated with Cage on several works, including "Indeterminacy" (1959), "Cartridge Music" (1960), Variations II (1961) and Variations III (1963). Cage once said that all his works composed before 1970 were written either for Tudor or with Tudor in mind. David Eugene Tudor was born in Philadelphia on Jan. 20, 1926. He studied organ with William Hawke, and worked as an organist at St. Mark's Church in Philadelphia from 1938 to 1943 and at Swarthmore College from 1944 to 1948. After studies in composition with Stefan Wolpe and piano with Irma Wolpe, he began to shift the emphasis of his performing career toward contemporary piano music, and by the end of 1950 he had established himself as a formidable and perceptive interpreter of difficult new works. Tudor began his association with Cage about this time, and he began working with the Merce Cunningham Dance Company when it was founded in 1953. Among the works he composed for the company were "Rainforest I" (1968), "Toneburst" (1974), "Forest Speech" (1976), "Phonemes" (1981), "Webwork" (1987) and "Neural Synthesis" (1992). He began producing electronic works in the late 1950s, but unlike most composers of electronic music, who created their works exclusively on tape, Tudor preferred to work with live sound. Using radios, electronic sound modules and recordings of natural sounds as his basic materials, he created sound sculptures by distorting, twisting and recombining the sounds in unusual ways. In the late 1960s, Tudor abandoned his career as a pianist to devote himself fully to composing and teaching. He gave courses at the University of California at Davis and Mills College, and he was an artistic director of the Experiments in Art and Technology Project at the Pepsi Pavilion at Expo '70 in Osaka, Japan. He is survived by a sister, Joy Nemiroff of Asheville, N.C. Copyright 1996 The New York Times ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 18:50:45 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: test Bruce Edwards wrote: > > apoligize for waste of bandwidth. just re-signed with emusic list about two > weeks ago. received two days digests then nothing. the logic being that one > needs to be "signed" to post so that if this goes through than it is merely > that whoever is left on the list is not being particularly chatty > > regards ERR? Excuse me? What's all this about? When I was on AOL (about 3 months ago), I recieved at least 10 mails every day from this mailing list. But when I left AOL, I left the list and have only recently rejoined (within the past 3 days). I haven't recieved any mails from it yet, and I thought that it hadn't signed me up yet! If I'm actually mailing to everyone on the list, EVERYONE REPLY with something, just to make sure there is someone here! Thanks, Andy W. England -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:53:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Peter J. Bullaudy" Subject: Re: test Seems that this list has been quiet for a while, but it seems to be working. I haven't received anything in a while myself. Peterr ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 00:26:11 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: test Andrew Whittle wrote: > If I'm actually mailing to everyone on the list, EVERYONE REPLY with > something, just to make sure there is someone here! The mailing list works fine, and there ARE people reading the messages, the only thing is nobody started an ongoing discussion yet. Here's another attempt... Anyone interested in Howie B. and his Pussyfoot label ?? Really nice stuff. Especially the Spacer album. Can't stop listening to it. On an other note, I'm looking for Pierre Henry stuff on CD. Especially the early stuff he did with Pierre Schaeffer. Does anyone have a complete discography on file or know a web site with one on it ?? Francis. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 00:50:26 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: Compose software I just downloaded an algocomp program called COMPOSE v. 2.07 (Mac) - here's the author information that came with it: Charles Ames 68 Stevenson Boulevard Eggertsville, New York, 14226 USA January 18, 1992 Can anyone tell me if this is still supported, or where I can reach the author, or does anyone here actually use it - if so, I wanna know how to use this thing - thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 02:18:06 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: Compose software I just downloaded an algocomp program called COMPOSE v. 2.07 (Mac) - here's the author information that came with it: Charles Ames 68 Stevenson Boulevard Eggertsville, New York, 14226 USA January 18, 1992 Can anyone tell me if this is still supported, or where I can reach the author, or does anyone here actually use it - if so, I need help usin' this thing - thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:06:32 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: test Peter J. Bullaudy wrote: > > Seems that this list has been quiet for a while, but it seems to be working. > I haven't received anything in a while myself. > > Peterr Well, lets start up a conversation on here, that will get everyone back on to it!!! What shall we have? I think I'll skip all the technichal music synth stuff for the moment. When I was on a while back, any mail you sent was replied to by about 5 people minimum, and the mails about composers and clasical music, were always answered by just about everyone! Someone send a mail to get the ball rolling. Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:10:16 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Compose software Scott Purman wrote: > > I just downloaded an algocomp program called COMPOSE v. 2.07 (Mac) - here's > the author information that came with it: > > Charles Ames > 68 Stevenson Boulevard > Eggertsville, New York, 14226 > USA > January 18, 1992 > > Can anyone tell me if this is still supported, or where I can reach the > author, or does anyone here actually use it - if so, I need help usin' this > thing - thanks. Has anyone noticed, that when certain people write a mail to this list, the mail is sent twice? The past four mails have been sent to me twice! Exact copies! I don't know what's happening here. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:09:07 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Compose software Scott Purman wrote: > > I just downloaded an algocomp program called COMPOSE v. 2.07 (Mac) - here's > the author information that came with it: > > Charles Ames > 68 Stevenson Boulevard > Eggertsville, New York, 14226 > USA > January 18, 1992 > > Can anyone tell me if this is still supported, or where I can reach the > author, or does anyone here actually use it - if so, I wanna know how to use > this thing - thanks. Well, I haven't heard of him or the software, but maybe you could try writing to him via snail mail, but what is the date at the bottom for? Is it the date he was born - a four year old composer and computer programmer. Is it the date he died - in which case, don't write to him. Is it the date the program was written - the most likely of the three. Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:23:09 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Discussion... Right, here's something that I hope will start off a long discussion, so everyone reply to it: Are there any people here interested in Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, Lightning Seeds, Blur, etc? I like all of these, and any indie bands in general. What sort of music is everyone into? Classical, Indie, Pop, Dance, Rave, Jungle, house, etc??? I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical though! I don't know how people can listen to it! Unless it's a really catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! Reply Soon, Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:55:43 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Music for film... I have an acquaintence, Michael Carr, who has started "Indie" magazine online, it deals with subjects concerning independent film making. He has asked me to help create a department titled "Music For Film." I'm looking for topics that would be interesting to research and be of interest to readers. Also I'm looking for anyone interested in contributing to the articles. Any and all help would be appreciated. I originally met Michael when I was out selling my compositions to independent filmmakers last fall, he was doing a film title, "Telluride, Time Passes Over." Anyway, I found that many filmakers were interested, received many calls, talking projects, etc, but couldn't get any to commit to anything solid, so getting in and getting the music in the film is a topic I would like to explore further - how to get beyond the initial contact and interest. I'm only dealing my electronic music and there was a tendency to shy away from strictly electronic music, I'm not sure why, but would like to explore this further as well. Any thought's? Alan Bookmiller abook@proxima.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Leretaille Subject: Classical Music I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because classical music is dead. I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied with an art that doesn't evolue. Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that remain today are just oldies. Eric, Paris Aris7@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: Discussion... Andy, Maybe you should think about picking up some books to further your knowledge and understanding of music in general. I would recommend Schwartz and Godfrey's "Music Since 1945" (Schirmer publishing) Personally, I am open to all styles of music, but primarily music written after 1950 or so. . . I don't spend much time with music from the pop culture; however, I refuse to let my ignorance of pop music influence my judgement fo this music. M. Ray McFerron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:55:30 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steve Gallant Subject: Re: Classical Music > I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > classical music is dead. > I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied > with an art that doesn't evolue. > > Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that > remain today are just oldies. > > Eric, Paris How sad! How terribly sad. I for one listen to a great deal of classical music. Classical music is not dead. Classical music is eternal. We will always have it, and we will always learn from it, and be inspired by it. Classical music has set so many ground rules for modern composers, and even pop artists. Of course no one can compose Classical Music anymore, because we do not live in the Classical Era. Classical music represents a tremendous section of our history, that has evolved to accomodate our listening abilities. The problem with music listeners these days, is that no one has time to listen to Classical Music. They want a "quick fix"... a two or three minute pop song that repeats itself six-times over seems to provide so much satisfaction for our little brains. In the classical era, people went to concerts to listen to music, to hear it begin, develop, recapitulate, and end. It's too bad that anyone feels Classical Music is dead. Steve Gallant (sgallant@ibl.bm) Warwick, Bermuda. Visit the Soundtrack Resource Center at http://pwp.ibl.bm/~sgallant/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:40:53 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Pierre Henry > On an other note, I'm looking for Pierre Henry stuff on CD. Especially > the early stuff he did with Pierre Schaeffer. Does anyone have a > complete discography on file or know a web site with one on it ?? I don't know of any discography available on the net, but I can give you some directions. I have two CD's of his: - Harmonia Mundi HMC905200 featuring 'Variations pour une porte et un Soupir' (1963) + 'Voile d'Orphee' (1953) A note on the CD says that for all information, write to Centre de Documentation de la Musique Contemporaine, 225 Avenue Charles-de- -Gaulle, 92200 Neuilly-sur-Seine (France) - Wergo WER6301-2 featuring 'La Ville. Die Stadt' (1984) You perhaps should check the INA/GRM CD's or the IRCAM online catalogue. Best! -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:03:43 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terrance McDermott Subject: An invitation to composers... Comments: To: amc@slim.slnsw.gov.au Comments: cc: MUSSA@LURE.latrobe.edu.au, a.brown@qut.edu.au, Andrew_Czink@sfu.ca, anat@camtech.net.au, b.stewart@edfac.unimelb.edu.au, dak@latcs1.lat.OZ.AU, drokeby@interlog.com, csound@noether.ex.ac.uk, SOUND@acm.org, algo-comp@heinous.music.uiowa.edu, max@vm1.mcgill.ca, garth@CREATIVEACCESS.COM.AU, iain.mott@music.utas.edu.au, Crawford.John@a2.abc.net.au, rolf@rolfhh.hanse.de, muslp@LUXOR.latrobe.edu.au, vanhoeslr@mail.medoto.unimelb.edu.au, barfry@xs4all.nl, compfrm@maroon.tc.umn.edu, john.armstrong@tafensw.edu.au, tim@monul.cc.monash.edu.au, r.berry@unsw.EDU.AU, ray@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au, muse@leland.Stanford.EDU, lawrence_harvey@muwayf.unimelb.edu.au, rcummins@extro.ucc.su.oz.au, goertzel@waikato.ac.nz, b.seaman@unsw.EDU.AU, damien@spirit.com.au, u2081634@acsusun.acsu.unsw.edu.au, darrell@shrine.cyber.ad.jp, p2146638@cumulus.csd.unsw.oz.au, iml@nets.com, S.Favilla@music.utas.edu.au, g.ferris@unsw.EDU.AU, hobba@artschool.utas.edu.au, flood@acat.anu.edu.au, Amanda.Wojtowicz@admin.utas.edu.au, nhelyer@extro.ucc.su.oz.au, n.mclaughlin@student.anu.edu.au, demarini@well.com, rmarr@extro.ucc.su.oz.au, cschieve@selu.edu, a.speirs@unsw.EDU.AU, kcorey@heinous.music.uiowa.edu, mussa@LURE.latrobe.edu.au, musdjgh@LURE.latrobe.edu.au, julian@3dis.com.au, byar@aol.com, david.worrall@anu.edu.au, p2081658@aix00.csd.unsw.oz.au, arunc@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, chadabe@aol.com, lawrence_harvey@muwayf.unimelb.edu.au, laurag4509@aol.com, sejic@freenet.ufl.edu, pnm@u.washington.edu, ad616@lafn.org, drewlesso@aol.com, stuermer@contrib.de, cschieve@selu.edu, ray@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, rcoyle@pip.engl.mq.edu.au, bischoff@ella.mills.edu, nhelyer@extro.ucc.su.oz.au, tjk691@leonard.anu.edu.au, sullivan@pilot.msu.edu, wendt%sjsuvm1.BITNET@yale.EDU, barfry@stang.netspace.net.au, abbrdsky@netcom.com, dsenn@tribnet.com, 73642.1721@compuserve.com, sveitch@ozonline.com.au, swhittin@arts.adelaide.edu.au, Michael.Caesar@Telopea.act.edu.au, rnm@iconz.co.nz, musdr@LURE.latrobe.edu.au, non12@cyber.net, ichoi@ncsa.uiuc.edu, rolnick@iear.arts.rpi.edu, c-forum@woof.music.columbia.edu, roman@mcad.edu, richard@risset.york.ac.uk, g.howard@qcm.gu.edu.au, belgu003@gold.tc.umn.edu, brun@uxh.cso.uiuc.edo, jankows@epas.utoronto.ca, rapoport@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca, user0483@student.anu.edu.au, taleman@ravenpress.com, frykberg@sfu.ca, engljg@LURE.latrobe.edu.au, audio-l%itesmvf1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu, barry_truax@sfu.ca, csound@noether.ex.ac.uk, david.worrall@anu.edu.au, daw-mac@netcom.com, icma@umich.edu, elioc@risc.idg.fi.cnr.it, max%mcgill1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu, mla-l@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu, mto-list@husc.harvard.edu, msp@muttley.ucsd.edu, music@watson.ibm.com, music-research@comlab.oxford.ac.uk, musprf-l%cmsuvmb.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu, nextmusic@eecs.umich.edu, notmus-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, pcsound@maths.bath.ac.uk, semla-l@uga.cc.uga.edu, smallmusic@xcf.berkeley.edu, smt-list@husc.harvard.edu, sonicart.demon.co.uk@sonicart.demon.co.uk, sound@acm.org, synth-l@american.edu, ubmut-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu, users@cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu, users@ccrma.stanford.edu Hello, Here is an invitation to submit a music tape piece to two different events in Melbourne, Australia in October and November. Apologies if you receive this posting twice, as I have sent it to a few lists. ______EX-STATIC______ Begins where techno-ambient ends. Specially burnt CDs by digital sound forgers are beat-mixed in a multi-channel stack to immerse you in a virtual sonic vortex. You are no longer static: you're ex static... An invitation to composers and sound artists... This will be a curated event, drawing broadly from artists within the sonic domain. They will include sound-artists, electro-acoustic composers, techno-ambient composers and DJs. There appears to be a preoccupation by researchers in new technology in what are called immersive environments, commonly manifested as virtual reality systems. There is, however a history of immersive environmental experience that is articulated socially, rather than in the confines of a research laboratory. The most obvious manifestation of this is the phenonemon of techno as an art-form/expressive medium, and it may be considered as a parallel to examples of other trance-inducing rituals in other cultures and other times. In techno, the immersive mode is primarily sonic, and it has qualities which differentiate it from more recent visual immersive techniques. Sound, more naturally than vision, has the ability to induce and indicate emotional states, the extreme example of this being trance. It is primarily expressive, as opposed to being representational. ex static will extend the methods of sonic presentation found in techno, by recontextualising more 'traditional' acousmatic modes of presentation within that of techno. The term acousmatic was coined by Pierre Schaeffer to describe the listening environment that is performerless, a method first adopted by the Platonic school, where pupils of Greek philosophers would be instructed behind a partition, so they could only hear their teacher. This enabled greater concentration on what was said, and when applied to music, is known as reduced listening. Psychologically, this type of 'performerless' performance of music has a relationship to photography, where the sonic output refers to an absence, rather than a presence, and therefore refers to the past, that is, a memory of the prior presence. In electro-acoustic tape pieces, this acousmatic mode can be exploited with very powerful results, where the audience are concentrated around one 'ideal' listening and are concentrating on the structures within the music. In techno-ambient, it is dealt with by employing a DJ as performer. The DJ, through beat-mixing and layering of tracks attempts to reanimate that which is no longer present; that which is only a mere tracing of what occured in some time past. The music becomes itemised by the DJ; the DJ uses these items as modules to order and mix together, to create a meta-piece that can be seen to endure beyond the physical capabilities of any audience member. The composer is anonymous and the identity of any one piece, or module is lost or overwhelmed by the collective identity of the audience, the DJ, the event itself. While the music signifies an absence, the DJ re-presents the music's presence. ex-static will extend and mix these two modes of performerless loudspeaker music, by having a quadraphonic set-up, where composers, sound-artists and techno-artists are invited to submit 'pieces' or 'modules' of music which will be itemised and burnt onto a number of CDs to be mixed live at two different venues for two separate events. The first event will be on Thursday, 3rd October at a night called Glitch, upstairs at Little Reata's, 68 Little Collins st, Melboune Australia. The second event will be part of the Experimenta season of video-art screenings in November at the old electricity power station on the corner of Spencer and Lonsdale streets, Melbourne Australia. Both these events will be accompanied by lighting design, including computer graphics and animation, and they will have the effect of immersion, where the music washes over the audience, who are free to walk around the space, and participate for as long or as briefly as they like. Due to the nature of the event, its duration is not fixed, and may go on for a number of hours, thus having the status of performance-installation. There will be four or six sources, (CD drives) with two or three DJs, plus a midi-controlled mixer to acheive a dynamic quadraphonic mix of each DJ's sub-mix. Currently I am looking for submissions of music 'modules' from any interested composers/musicians who would like to have some of their work included in this project. The kind of music I am looking for extends past the definition of techno and includes electro-acoustic work. Because of the method of presentation, any module you submit could well be mixed in with other music by the DJ on the night, and possibly only an excerpt of your module might be played: in other words, your module will be recontextualised, and you must be comfortable with this type of treatment. The most appropriate type of modules for this type of presentation would be formally open-ended, or cyclic (colotomic), and sonically fairly transperant, that is, not too dense, so that it can accommodate other modules. They can be rhythmic, arhythmic, polymetric, melodic, harmonic, polyphonic, modal, nodal, spectral, tonal, atonal, MIDI-generated, analogue, digital, vocal (although an actual song -for example, AABA form- probably wouldn't work, but some kind of unaccompanied litany probably would), stochastic, spatial, algorithmic, bassy, percussive, jangly, noisy, sinusoidal, subtractive, additive, resonant, continuous, discontinuous, linear, non-linear, transformational, or static. They can simply be a feel, a texture, a melody, or something more complex. You may want to compose a module especially for this project, or lift something suitable from a previous piece of music you made. Got the idea? Please contact me ASAP if you want to be included. Terry McDermott, POB 2025 Fitzroy MDC Victoria 3065 Australia voice: +61 3 94175320 email: terry@klang.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:21:05 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Murphy Subject: Re: Classical Music It's interesting to see the recent posts which speak to death and / or inaccessability of classical music. For players of contemporary music to say that classical is dead seems to me to be like a sapling calling the giant oak dead. True, classical music does not change much from year to year but it does evolve slowly. I have played keyboards, primarily improvisational piano and synth, for years and find it tremendously stimulating and satisfying. But a recent slump in creativity sent me looking in a new direction. I have had virtually no classical training. Wandering in a local shop I came across a classical fake book - a huge thing with probably 600 or so pieces. What a fantastic investment this has turned out to be for me. First off, its fun to play some of the more recognizable pieces. With a melody line and a few chords you can come up with inventions that would make Bach jealous (or ill). The point is that there is a whole world of interesting music in the classical realm which , by virtue of a lack of training and familiarity, I have been allowing to pass by unnoticed. In fact, the more I play from the fake book, the more I recognize classical pieces as familiar. As far as the creativity issue goes, I am finding that I have, all this time, been subconciously borrowing progressions which are fairly common in classical music. And I have been rediscovering ways to use some chords (diminished for example) that are commonly used in classical pieces. I am not about to start composing in a classical style but this recent limited foray into classical music has been a worthwhile adventure. To those who believe that classical is dead; I believe you are dead wrong. Open your ears and your mind - there is a lot to learn from classical music. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:13:58 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul LaVigne Subject: Re: Discussion... At 12:23 PM 8/19/96 +0000, you wrote: >I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical >though! I don't know how people can listen to it! Unless it's a really >catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just >can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more >classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few >names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also >remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! Classical Music is not dead quite yet, but it is dying. As a survivor of the academic musical world, I can say this about why it's dying: It's not accessible, and in that respect it has little room to evolve. It's so heavily guarded by either academia or the wealthy and pompous that anything straying from their norm is looked down upon. They don't use the term "Classical Music" anymore. They actually call it "Serious" Music. As if Miles Davis, Bird, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, etc. weren't serious. Peter gabriel apparently can't be taken seriously by their standards. I could go on for days. The only thing that's serious is the height that the stick is up their...... The evolution of western "classical" music brought us the weird 20th century people like Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Webern, on up through Cage, Glass and Riley ( I know I skipped 40 years or so, bear with me). It was so incredibly academic and over-thought that by the time Glass showed up, people could honestly care less. And it's the same today. IMO, Jazz became the new art-music of the people in America and eventually abroad. Now we're stuck with the Macarena. What happened??? End soapbox mode Paul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:22:55 GMT+1 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Brehovsky Organization: University of Ulster, Magee. Subject: Re: Classical Music > > Of course no one can compose Classical Music anymore, because we do not > live in the Classical Era. Classical music represents a tremendous section > of our history, that has evolved to accomodate our listening abilities. > > The problem with music listeners these days, is that no one has time to > listen to Classical Music. They want a "quick fix"... a two or three minute > pop song that repeats itself six-times over seems to provide so much > satisfaction for our little brains. > I thought that Philip Glass is a classical music composer. And he is living. And there is even more composers, which are not doing pop-style of music. Martin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 07:54:41 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: Discussion... Andrew Whittle wrote: > Are there any people here interested in Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, > Lightning Seeds, Blur, etc? I like all of these, and any indie bands in > general. Nah, I'm not really into indie rock bands. I come more from a dance music (god I hate that term) background. But my spectrum is nowadays very large. (Ambient, Techno, House, Hip-Hop, Musique Concrete, Musique Actuelle, Jazz) > I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical > though! I don't know how people can listen to it! You can't really say that, as 'classical' music encompasses a very very big variety of sounds. You can't really put Mozart and Stockhausen in the same bag. If you like e-music, try some avant-garde classical, like John Cage or Lamonte Young or even Phillip Glass. Although they don't have much to do with brit pop and indie rock. You might find a link though, you never know! > Why are there no more > classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few > names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard > of! The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also > remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! That's because the classical music can get pretty complicated and not alot of people have the background or the ear to understand it. Especially since pop music today is catchy and easy to feel. The majority of people rather go for simple things than try to understand conceptual things. No ? (I might be wrong, you know!) 8-) Francis. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:03:12 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: Pierre Henry Paulo Mouat wrote: > I don't know of any discography available on the net, but I can give > you some directions. > > I have two CD's of his: > > - Harmonia Mundi HMC905200 featuring 'Variations pour une porte et un > Soupir' (1963) + 'Voile d'Orphee' (1953) > > A note on the CD says that for all information, write to Centre de > Documentation de la Musique Contemporaine, 225 Avenue Charles-de- > -Gaulle, 92200 Neuilly-sur-Seine (France) > > - Wergo WER6301-2 featuring 'La Ville. Die Stadt' (1984) > > You perhaps should check the INA/GRM CD's or the IRCAM online catalogue. > I will! And thanks for the info. I've been trying to get into Henry and Schaeffer for a long time! (The stores in Montreal have absolutely nothing interesting, really) :-> Francis. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:02:09 GMT Reply-To: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Discussion... In-Reply-To: <32185CAD.3226@dial.pipex.com> >Right, here's something that I hope will start off a long discussion, so >everyone reply to it: :) Okay, if you tell me to do so ... >Are there any people here interested in Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, >Lightning Seeds, Blur, etc? I like all of these, and any indie bands in >general. Sorry, I know none of them. I think I don't even know what 'Indie' stands for. >I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical >though! I don't know how people can listen to it! Unless it's a really >catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just >can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more >classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few >names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also >remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! You're right! Classical composers have died out, due to the fact that the Classic was just an episode in music evolution. Bach and Haendel weren't classical composers, they did their work in the Baroque, as other composers like Beethoven and later ones were Romantiques. But this is just a question of definition. Modern composers... you can't name them if they haven't already produced a remarkable piece of work. But, who knows, maybe Zappa will be remembered as a 20th century giant as well as Messiaen, Davis, Boulez, Stravinsky and others? After all, who cares about taxonomy? There are hundreds of composers in each century nobody ever does remember anymore. It will be the same with our century. Cheers, Chris. --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:16:59 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: Discussion... A > >What sort of music is everyone into? Classical, Indie, Pop, Dance, Rave, >Jungle, house, etc??? > >I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical >though! I don't know how people can listen to it! I was brought up listening to and playing classical music. That's the music that turns me on the most. I often wonder how people can put up with this stuff that just goes THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP. It just goes to show you. Your tastes are formed early on. Unless it's a really >catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just >can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more >classical composers? What we call, for better or worse, classical music is swimming, I might even say drowning in living composers. There are more people writing "classical" music today than there have ever been in the entire history of western music. I work as a music cataloger in the Cornell Library system. I see mountains of new scores come past my desk every day. "Billions and billions" to quote one of Cornell's most famous professors. Much more than all the orchestras, chamber music organizations, and other performers can possibly perform more than once, if at all. This is compounded by the fact that the forementioned performing groups have gotten caught up in a mindset where they're mostly interested in performing music from the past. The reason you can only think of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Handel, is that that's about all the gets played and recorded, and consequently presented as "classical music". They all seem to have died out! I only know a few >names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also >remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! Well, I can't name a single "House" or "Rave" musician so I guess we're even. You might want to search out an album called "Hoodoo Zephyr" by John Adams to get an idea of what one type of contemporary "classical" composer is doing today. It's electronic music too, which makes it especially worthy of mention on this list. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:59:17 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: Classical Music >I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because >classical music is dead. >I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied >with an art that doesn't evolue. > >Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that >remain today are just oldies. > >Eric, Paris > >Aris7@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric, Such a wanton and brazen demonstration of one's ability to fit his "hat rack" this far into his "exhaust" will go unchallenged on this list for some time to come! You obviously have no idea of that which you speak. I strongly recommend that you run right out today and acquire some classical music appreciation CD's and begin to fill the obvious void you have on this subject. If you start today, you may scratch the surface in several years of concentrated effort. It will, trust me, take you a lifetime to really garner an appreciation. Alan Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:19:44 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Music For Film... I have recently been asked to write several articles for "Indie Magazine," an online magazine dedicated to independent film making. It's chief editor and founder is Michael Carr, whom I met last fall while out marketing my compositions to that industry. At that time he was producing a film titled "Telluride, Time Passes Over," and in the midst of bringing together the resources for another which is to begin filming this winter. I told him that I would be glad to submit material for his magazine. What I would like are suggestions from the members of this fine list as to topics. I know in my own experience that although I had initial interest in my compositions and services from many film makers, getting to a solid commitment is difficult. So, I would like to do something on marketing music, costs, fees, services etc. How to land a contract, making and getting a commitment, legal ramifications and the like. Many were hesitant to use strictly electronic music, for reasons that I really can't define. Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated. I would also like to feature composers who would be interested in breaking into this industry. Also, anyone interested in contributing articles? There is much to write about and feature - what would you as composers and performers like to see? Alan M. Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:33:05 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: More on Pierre Henry > I will! And thanks for the info. I've been trying to get into Henry > and Schaeffer for a long time! (The stores in Montreal have > absolutely nothing interesting, really) :-> If you are into Pierre Schaeffer also, then you'll be glad to know that his complete works are available on a special edition with several CD's (I can't recall how many, 4? 8?) with a very interesting booklet, detailing the evolution of Musique Concrete--it sure must, because Schaeffer's pieces on those CD's are nothing but that. The label was either Accord or Adda, I can't remember precisely. It wasn't very expensive, about US$100 at local prices, but at the time I couldn't afford it. Never saw it again. I can dig some info on it if you want. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:39:25 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: Discussion... > > Why are there no more classical composers? They all seem to have > > died out! I only know a few names, but the only recent classical > > composers, no-one has ever heard of! > > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can > > also remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! > > You're right! Classical composers have died out What about Arvo Part? He is surely more 'classical' than Stockhausen. And is younger too. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:54:17 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dominikus Forcht <100142.2656@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Classical Music ...a really interesting thought, Eric, until now I was thinking that all of music one hear (pop may be out of sight here) is an appearance of evolution of classical music. How you can say "...classical music is dead"? Ooo yes, this would be dead if no one would try every day to perform musically others than "yesterday". Are not we all children of classic? I feel so, although a life long as musician and electronic composer I was in collision with classic.... Greetings! Dominikus Forcht ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:55:45 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: Classical Music My $.25 worth: >I thought that Philip Glass is a classical music composer. And he is >living. And there is even more composers, which are not doing >pop-style of music. >Martin The problem here is with definition: The "Classical Era" in music began sometime in the very late 17th c., after the "Baroque Era" epitomized by J.S. Bach, and continued through the 18th c., up to the time of Beethoven, who is considered to have ushered in the "Romantic Era." "Classical music" has also been thought of as all music which is through-written; that is, written down note-by-note on manuscript paper. As with all living art forms (and language, for that matter) definitions change: now that we have electronic methods of composition and no way for a person other than the composer to recreate the piece (and many times they can't, either!), the definition has switched from how the piece was written to where it is played and who listens to it. Like it or not, "classical" music (BTW, I've always hated that term) tends to be elitist: more often than not, it is listened to and played by college-educated people who sit in concert halls staring at the performer(s) and/or the tape machine; people who can afford music lessons and instrument; and/or afford the recordings and electronic playback machines. I was schooled in this area and have alternately embraced and eschewed the institution. "Popular" [dance] music (whether or not it is truly popular) requires none of these trappings: if you have the $$ to buy a beer at the local dance club (or friends to mooch off of), you can zone out without having to think for _many_ hours. That's the deal with "classical" music: it requires extended concentration for a more full listening experience. Good or bad, dance music requires nothing of you-- least of all, extended, focused, thought. Both have their places, and taken together DO NOT encompass even .01% of what is out there; that is, I do not consider it a dichotomous situation. Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:48:29 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Discussion... In-Reply-To: <199608200613.XAA20509@pop1.sirius.com> from "Paul LaVigne" at Aug 19, 96 11:13:58 pm For those of you who've been claiming that through-composed, annotated music is dead, I'd like to suggest a few possibilities: - W. Carlos "A Clockwork Orange" soundtrack "Switched-On Bach" (available on CD) (NOT SOB 2000 :P) "The Well-Tempered Synthesizer - Larry Fast as "Synergy": Cords Electronic Realizations for Rock Orchestra Sequencer several others - Stephen Scott "The Tears of Niobe" - John Cage "Sonatas for Prepared Piano" - Harry Partch "Castor and Pollux" "Barstow" - Karlheinz Stockhausen "Kontakte" (all-electronic version) "Song of the Youth" Check out Debussy's piano works, Ravel (NOT the Bolero, which he ended up hating), Copland (Appalachian Spring, Billy the Kid), Ralph Vaughn Williams, Benjamin Britten, Arnold Schoenberg (Transfigured Night, Pierrot lunaire). There are lots of others, certainly. Ravel, Debussy, Copland, Vaughn Williams, Britten, and Schoenberg will probably be available in your local public library. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:35:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: Discussion... Comments: To: gosselin@odyssee.net That's because the classical music can get pretty complicated and not alot of people have the background or the ear to understand it. Especially since pop music today is catchy and easy to feel. The majority of people rather go for simple things than try to understand conceptual things. No ? (I might be wrong, you know!) I'm not sure I agree. I got turned on to Webern when I was 6 (!) Then there's the story of HArvey Sollberger's daughter. When she was growing up the only things she heard her dad play were avant-garde flute pieces with a strong emphasis on extended techniques. Well, one day Harvey was working on a Mozart flute quartet. Needless to say, she found that music very weird. Then there is the example of Frank Zappa... Funny thing I've noticed is that when I've been trying to show some out there stuff to lay people, those seemingly most willing to accept musical experimentation are those who are into heavy metal. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:42:04 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ed Forner Subject: Re: More on Pierre Henry In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:33:05 +0200" <3219BE91.4C31@mail.telepac.pt> > If you are into Pierre Schaeffer also, then you'll be glad to know that > his complete works are available on a special edition with several CD's > (I can't recall how many, 4? 8?) with a very interesting booklet, > detailing the evolution of Musique Concrete--it sure must, because > Schaeffer's pieces on those CD's are nothing but that. > > The label was either Accord or Adda, I can't remember precisely. It > wasn't very expensive, about US$100 at local prices, but at the time > I couldn't afford it. Never saw it again. > > I can dig some info on it if you want. > > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| Paulo...I just checked my Schwann-Opus catalog and found nothing at all by Pierre Schaeffer listed, which was a disappointment, indeed. If you could turn up any more information about the complete works, I, for one, would appreciate it very much. Thanks +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Ed Forner Macalester College Music Department + + forner@macalester.edu voice (612) 696-6189 + + St. Paul, MN, 55105 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:37:56 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Wrong email address... POSTMASTER Did everyone here recieve a POSTMASTER mail four times about an unknown user? If the supervisor to this list is reading this, I think you'd better sort this out and wipe their subscription if they've changed email address's. I've had a few of them, and just recieved another four. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:11:23 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Eric Leretaille wrote: > > I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > classical music is dead. > I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied > with an art that doesn't evolue. > > Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that > remain today are just oldies. > > Eric, Paris > > Aris7@aol.com That's true!!! I just can't see the joy of sitting down and listening to a load of instruments playing off black matchsticks on a piece of lined paper! I went to a classical music concert once (actually, about 2 months ago) and half way through it, I fell asleep! I only went because I was bribed! Oh, and the conductor! He's/She's someone who stands there in the middle of the stage with his/her back to the audience, and they do some sort of ritual dance to the musicians! Why they get paid??? Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:23:44 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Steve Gallant wrote: > > > I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > > classical music is dead. > > I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel > satisfied > > with an art that doesn't evolue. > > > > Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that > > remain today are just oldies. > > > > Eric, Paris > > How sad! How terribly sad. > > I for one listen to a great deal of classical music. Classical music is > not dead. Classical music is eternal. We will always have it, and we will > always learn from it, and be inspired by it. > > Classical music has set so many ground rules for modern composers, and even > pop artists. > > Of course no one can compose Classical Music anymore, because we do not > live in the Classical Era. Classical music represents a tremendous section > of our history, that has evolved to accomodate our listening abilities. > > The problem with music listeners these days, is that no one has time to > listen to Classical Music. They want a "quick fix"... a two or three minute > pop song that repeats itself six-times over seems to provide so much > satisfaction for our little brains. > > In the classical era, people went to concerts to listen to music, to hear > it begin, develop, recapitulate, and end. > > It's too bad that anyone feels Classical Music is dead. > > Steve Gallant (sgallant@ibl.bm) > Warwick, Bermuda. > > Visit the Soundtrack Resource Center at > http://pwp.ibl.bm/~sgallant/index.html Actually, I like that sort of music that repeats itself time and time again!!! That can amuse my simple little mind very easily! I truly think that classical music has come to a stand still, and the next century won't have any classical composers or even no listeners! I actually like a pop song with an orchestra in the background. Take Mariah Carey for example (don't include her latest song 'Keep on Jumping' because that's just thrown her style). Mariah has done plenty of slow songs, with an orchestrated background, and I can't get enough of them. Celien Dion is another one with slow orchestrated songs! I will buy any of their songs, but not classical or OPERAH! I seriously get a headache listening to Operah music! Later, Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:18:14 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... M. Ray McFerron wrote: > > Andy, > > Maybe you should think about picking up some books to further your knowledge > and understanding of music in general. I would recommend Schwartz and > Godfrey's "Music Since 1945" (Schirmer publishing) Personally, I am open to > all styles of music, but primarily music written after 1950 or so. . . I > don't spend much time with music from the pop culture; however, I refuse to > let my ignorance of pop music influence my judgement fo this music. > > M. Ray McFerron I don't think that will help either!!! I just somehow can't get a feel for Classical music, which I've more or less made clear in my past emails to this list! Anything else (except easy-listening and Jazz) I can get used to and will listen to it, but not classical (and co.). While I'm writing this email, does anyone have any MIDI files of Lightning Seeds, Oasis, Pulp, Blur, Ash or Garbage??? I desperately need some and can't find any anywhere, especially Oasis and Lightning Seeds! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:25:27 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Pierre Henry Paulo Mouat wrote: > > > On an other note, I'm looking for Pierre Henry stuff on CD. Especially > > the early stuff he did with Pierre Schaeffer. Does anyone have a > > complete discography on file or know a web site with one on it ?? > > I don't know of any discography available on the net, but I can give > you some directions. > > I have two CD's of his: > > - Harmonia Mundi HMC905200 featuring 'Variations pour une porte et un > Soupir' (1963) + 'Voile d'Orphee' (1953) > > A note on the CD says that for all information, write to Centre de > Documentation de la Musique Contemporaine, 225 Avenue Charles-de- > -Gaulle, 92200 Neuilly-sur-Seine (France) > > - Wergo WER6301-2 featuring 'La Ville. Die Stadt' (1984) > > You perhaps should check the INA/GRM CD's or the IRCAM online catalogue. > > Best! > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| No, sorry, I can't help! Try using a search engine and looking him up. Or ask around various places for MIDI's of him. Use a MIDI composition program and often the author leaves an email address or post address. Write to them and ask them for help. Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:14:59 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Music for film... Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > > I have an acquaintence, Michael Carr, who has started "Indie" magazine > online, it deals with subjects concerning independent film making. He has > asked me to help create a department titled "Music For Film." I'm looking > for topics that would be interesting to research and be of interest to > readers. Also I'm looking for anyone interested in contributing to the > articles. Any and all help would be appreciated. I originally met Michael > when I was out selling my compositions to independent filmmakers last fall, > he was doing a film title, "Telluride, Time Passes Over." Anyway, I found > that many filmakers were interested, received many calls, talking projects, > etc, but couldn't get any to commit to anything solid, so getting in and > getting the music in the film is a topic I would like to explore further - > how to get beyond the initial contact and interest. I'm only dealing my > electronic music and there was a tendency to shy away from strictly > electronic music, I'm not sure why, but would like to explore this further > as well. Any thought's? > > Alan Bookmiller > abook@proxima.com Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but in England Indie music is just a style where the singer often doesn't actually put on a singing voice, but more of a casual voice. The music is played very load and there's a guitar solo and an idiot jumping up and down the stage in most performances! Indie artists in England are Oasis, Blur, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, Lightning Seeds, Ash, Garbage, etc. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:33:18 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Brian Murphy wrote: > > It's interesting to see the recent posts which speak to death and / or > inaccessability of classical music. For players of contemporary music to say > that classical is dead seems to me to be like a sapling calling the giant oak > dead. True, classical music does not change much from year to year but it > does evolve slowly. I have played keyboards, primarily improvisational piano > and synth, for years and find it tremendously stimulating and satisfying. But > a recent slump in creativity sent me looking in a new direction. I have had > virtually no classical training. Wandering in a local shop I came across a > classical fake book - a huge thing with probably 600 or so pieces. What a > fantastic investment this has turned out to be for me. First off, its fun to > play some of the more recognizable pieces. With a melody line and a few > chords you can come up with inventions that would make Bach jealous (or ill). > The point is that there is a whole world of interesting music in the > classical realm which , by virtue of a lack of training and familiarity, I > have been allowing to pass by unnoticed. In fact, the more I play from the > fake book, the more I recognize classical pieces as familiar. As far as the > creativity issue goes, I am finding that I have, all this time, been > subconciously borrowing progressions which are fairly common in classical > music. And I have been rediscovering ways to use some chords (diminished for > example) that are commonly used in classical pieces. I am not about to start > composing in a classical style but this recent limited foray into classical > music has been a worthwhile adventure. To those who believe that classical is > dead; I believe you are dead wrong. Open your ears and your mind - there is a > lot to learn from classical music. Wow, how long did that take you to write? It was actually me that started off the discussion on how much I hate classical music, and everyone's sort of argued and advanced on that. Well done everyone who replied! I think this list has been brought off the ground once again! I don't think there will ever be a time when I will sit down and listen to a classical piece in full without me arguing or going asleep! My music teacher in school (yes I'm still a pupil), he is 60 something, he's been teaching in the school for over 35 years. He has in his room, NINTENDO computer games posters pinned up at the back of his room. He also has a full stacked MIDI system with a pair of 500watt surround sound speakers. He listens to all the classical pieces at about half volume (250 watts, roughly well over 100 decibels) in his break times, and at the end of each lesson plays a piece to the pupils. He comes into school in the morning driving an old Volvo estate, with all the windows down, the sunroof open, and rave music playing at FULL blast while driving into the car park! Now that's a sign of the times! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:01:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Classical Music Hi All, Classical Music is very uplifting and healing, it expresses a joy of sound in the best pieces, and is still being written today by thousands and thousands of composers. The main difficulty for a modern classical composer is its very hard for him or her to find a live orchestra that will play anything written now. Thats why I wish more classical composers would take advantage of midi, there is no reason why one couldnt write a symphony and then record it via midi and get ones pieces out there. Even better would be writing for synths in the classical styles, which allows one to do things that would be impossible for live players to do, using instruments, tone colors that dont exist in the real world, except as synth sounds. Where are the great midi symphonyies? Synth quartets? Sound can be uplifting or destructive, and this applies to electronic sound as well as live orchestra sound. One may not like classical music, but all that means that one is dead to the beauty and wonder that can be found in it, not that classical music is dead. Happy Emusic Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Eric Leretaille Subject: Classical Music My previous message on classical music has engendered many reactions. More than I expected myself. I just add this one to say that I hope nobody felt hurt by what has been written. Eric, Paris Aris7@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:19:01 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Matthijs Kouw Subject: Musique. Hey you all, I had the guts to spill this data all over you, please forgive me if any harm was done. Hey Andy, you asked me what music I liked, well, that's a long story because it's not only electronic music. In general, I like several genres, techno (or electronic music, whatever) metal, rap and alternative rock. Since I live in the Netherlands I have the chanze to keep up with the techno scene, there are dozens of reord stores in Amsterdam you know. Well, my main techno idols are: Unit Moebius, Rude 66, Autechre, Joey Beltram, Orbital, Sensurreal and Underworld. There's a pretty extreme scene in the Hague and that's where Unit Moebius comes from, pretty industrial stuff if I may say so myself but I love it. The Autechre stuff is something I have great respect for, they have been able to link technical sound to nice strings... I love listening to metal too, it's my favorite scene. I love bands like Napalm Death, Sepultura, Cannibal Corpse, Nailbomb, Fear Factory, Machinehead and Type O Negative. The alternative rock scene, well I like Nirvana, the Smashing Pumpkins, Pennywise, Superchunk, Metal Molly, Therapy?, Rage against the Machine, Foo Fighters and dozens more. I like to listen to rap bands like Cypress Hill and the Beastie Boys aswell. Well, the list goes on and on but this small list ought to cover it. I only want to add that I like the Police, Jimmi Hendrix and Frank Zappa aswell. To be quite honest, I HATE rave, because it's commercial music. It's just crap, and especially the Eurohouse scene is full of shit, it's just mass appeal madness you know. Since I live in a country where 60% of the charts are commercial house tunes I have the right to say: been there, done that. It's only a trend and it has nothing to do with the basics of original music, in about 5 years the rave scene will be dead according to me. Greetings, Matthijs Kouw. mvk@dds.nl http://huizen.dds.nl/~mvk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:47:01 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Paulo Mouat wrote: > > > > Why are there no more classical composers? They all seem to have > > > died out! I only know a few names, but the only recent classical > > > composers, no-one has ever heard of! > > > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can > > > also remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! > > > > You're right! Classical composers have died out > > What about Arvo Part? He is surely more 'classical' than Stockhausen. > And is younger too. > > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| I haven't heard of either of them!!! Mind you, I don't know many classical composers! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:45:54 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Music For Film... Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > > I have recently been asked to write several articles for "Indie Magazine," > an online magazine dedicated to independent film making. It's chief editor > and founder is Michael Carr, whom I met last fall while out marketing my > compositions to that industry. At that time he was producing a film titled > "Telluride, Time Passes Over," and in the midst of bringing together the > resources for another which is to begin filming this winter. I told him > that I would be glad to submit material for his magazine. What I would like > are suggestions from the members of this fine list as to topics. I know in > my own experience that although I had initial interest in my compositions > and services from many film makers, getting to a solid commitment is > difficult. So, I would like to do something on marketing music, costs, > fees, services etc. How to land a contract, making and getting a > commitment, legal ramifications and the like. Many were hesitant to use > strictly electronic music, for reasons that I really can't define. Anyway, > any suggestions would be appreciated. I would also like to feature > composers who would be interested in breaking into this industry. Also, > anyone interested in contributing articles? There is much to write about > and feature - what would you as composers and performers like to see? > > Alan M. Bookmiller I think this is a shortened version of the last one isn't it? I'm not a composer anyway, so it doesn't concern me. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:37:05 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > > >I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > >classical music is dead. > >I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied > >with an art that doesn't evolue. > > > >Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that > >remain today are just oldies. > > > >Eric, Paris > > > >Aris7@aol.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Eric, > > Such a wanton and brazen demonstration of one's ability to fit his "hat > rack" this far into his "exhaust" will go unchallenged on this list for > some time to come! You obviously have no idea of that which you speak. I > strongly recommend that you run right out today and acquire some classical > music appreciation CD's and begin to fill the obvious void you have on this > subject. If you start today, you may scratch the surface in several years > of concentrated effort. It will, trust me, take you a lifetime to really > garner an appreciation. > > Alan Bookmiller No, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Eric on this one! Classical music is well and truley DEAD in this generation, and generations to come. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:45:07 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Dominikus Forcht wrote: > > ...a really interesting thought, Eric, > until now I was thinking that all of music one hear (pop may be out of sight > here) is an appearance of evolution of classical music. How you can say > "...classical music is dead"? Ooo yes, this would be dead if no one would try > every day to perform musically others than "yesterday". Are not we all children > of classic? I feel so, although a life long as musician and electronic composer > I was in collision with classic.... > > Greetings! Dominikus Forcht No, sorry, I STILL agree with Eric! Classical music is DEAD in my generation! I will reveal one of my many secrets now, I am 13 years old from England and run my own business! I don't usually tell people on the email that! In my class in school I know just one person who listens to classical music! He goes to church EVERY Sunday morning for service, to any church events, to any church meetings and helps with anything possible to do with the church. I held a birthday part in December, I invited him, he said he couldn't come because he had to go and watch a junior classical music festival. It wasn't that he was forced, he would rather be there with his parents than with his friends at a movie! He is a very strange boy! He starts revising for and of year tests four months after we go back to school (that's about 9 months of revision to do). He reads two books a day, 1 in school and 1 at home. Sometimes a novel (e.g. Steven King, etc.). He spends all of the school break times sitting on his bag, in a corner, reading his latest book. He spends lunch times in the library reading. He has 5 library tickets, which he paid for wheras everyone else has one. He watches 1 TV program once every week, and occasianally a James Bond film when it is on, although he has already got every single James Bond book, and read them all. I HAVE NO INTENTION OF BEING LIKE HIM!!! HE IS A VERY VERY LONELY PERSON!!! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:23:18 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Comments: To: gosselin@odyssee.net Francis Gosselin wrote: > > Andrew Whittle wrote: > > > Are there any people here interested in Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, > > Lightning Seeds, Blur, etc? I like all of these, and any indie bands in > > general. > > Nah, I'm not really into indie rock bands. I come more from a dance > music (god I hate that term) background. But my spectrum is nowadays > very large. (Ambient, Techno, House, Hip-Hop, Musique Concrete, Musique > Actuelle, Jazz) > > > I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical > > though! I don't know how people can listen to it! > > You can't really say that, as 'classical' music encompasses a very very > big variety of sounds. You can't really put Mozart and Stockhausen in > the same bag. If you like e-music, try some avant-garde classical, like > John Cage or Lamonte Young or even Phillip Glass. Although they don't > have much to do with brit pop and indie rock. You might find a link > though, you never know! > > > Why are there no more > > classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few > > names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard > > of! The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also > > remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! > > That's because the classical music can get pretty complicated and not > alot of people have the background or the ear to understand it. > Especially since pop music today is catchy and easy to feel. The > majority of people rather go for simple things than try to understand > conceptual things. > > No ? (I might be wrong, you know!) > > 8-) > Francis. Well, I could definately put all the composers I know into the same bag, the Garbage bag, along with all the others, like Back, Beethoven, etc. I don't think I'll ever have the gutts to say to my friends, "Yesterday I went out and bought Mozarts new album!"!!! My mom likes classical, my grand-parents like it, but me and my dad HATE it! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:27:13 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Comments: To: a8706976@unet.univie.ac.at Christian Roth wrote: > > >Right, here's something that I hope will start off a long discussion, so > >everyone reply to it: > > :) Okay, if you tell me to do so ... > > >Are there any people here interested in Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, Bush, > >Lightning Seeds, Blur, etc? I like all of these, and any indie bands in > >general. > > Sorry, I know none of them. I think I don't even know what 'Indie' > stands for. > > >I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical > >though! I don't know how people can listen to it! Unless it's a really > >catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just > >can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more > >classical composers? They all seem to have died out! I only know a few > >names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! > > The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also > >remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! > > You're right! Classical composers have died out, due to the fact that > the Classic was just an episode in music evolution. Bach and Haendel > weren't classical composers, they did their work in the Baroque, as > other composers like Beethoven and later ones were Romantiques. > > But this is just a question of definition. > > Modern composers... you can't name them if they haven't already > produced a remarkable piece of work. But, who knows, maybe Zappa will > be remembered as a 20th century giant as well as Messiaen, Davis, > Boulez, Stravinsky and others? > > After all, who cares about taxonomy? > > There are hundreds of composers in each century nobody ever does > remember anymore. It will be the same with our century. > > Cheers, > Chris. > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com True! Soon there will be another century of music! Maybe in the future, there will be a drug you take that lets your mind think your at a concert of the latest band or something like that, and no-one will remember Oasis, Mariah Carey, etc. Indie doesn't stand for anything, it's just something someone thought up and thought it would be a good name for that style! I'm beginning to think I'm the only person on this list who doesn't like classical music! Please, anyone who doesn't like classical either, reply to the list and help me combat all classical enthusiasts! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:35:14 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Comments: To: mark simon mark simon wrote: > > Hi. > > I tried to send a reply to the list, but I don't seem to be getting through, > so I'm sending my reply directly to you. > > >>What sort of music is everyone into? Classical, Indie, Pop, Dance, Rave, > >>Jungle, house, etc??? > >> > >>I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical > >>though! I don't know how people can listen to it! > > I was brought up listening to and playing classical music. That's the music > that turns me on the most. I often wonder how people can put up with this > other stuff that just goes THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP. It just goes to show > you. Your tastes are formed early on. > > > Unless it's a really > >>catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just > >>can't hear the difference between them all! Why are there no more > >>classical composers? > > What we call, for better or worse, classical music is swimming, I might even > say drowning in living composers. There are more people writing "classical" > music today than there have ever been in the entire history of western > music. I work as a music cataloger in the Cornell Library system. I see > mountains of new scores come past my desk every day. "Billions and billions" > to quote one of Cornell's most famous professors. Much more than all the > orchestras, chamber music organizations, and other performers can possibly > perform more than once, if at all. > > This is compounded by the fact that the forementioned performing groups have > gotten caught up in a mindset where they're mostly interested in performing > music from the past. The reason you can only think of Beethoven, Mozart, > Bach and Handel, is that that's about all the gets played and recorded, and > consequently presented as "classical music". > > > > > They all seem to have died out! I only know a few > >>names, but the only recent classical composers, no-one has ever heard of! > >> The first that springs to my mind is Beethoven and Mozart. I can also > >>remember Bach, and Handel, but that's about my limit! > > Well, I can't name a single "House" or "Rave" musician so I guess we're even. > > You might want to search out an album called "Hoodoo Zephyr" by John Adams > to get an idea of what one type of contemporary "classical" composer is > doing today. It's electronic music too, which makes it especially worthy of > mention on this list. > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > Mark G. Simon > Music cataloger > Central Tech. Services > Cornell University Libraries > > mgs2@cornell.edu > > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ OK. I can only name one house composer. That's Robert Miles. He's brilliant! they don't sound anything like house music to me! He was number one for a couple of weeks over here in England, what about overseas? Have you ever heard of him? If not, try and listen to 'Children' by him, everyone I know likes it, including parents and all other adults! House and Rave music is composed and played on computers, Rave sometime is played by a band comprising of 1 bass, 1 drum kit, a synthesiser and a keyboard. HOuse is just completely computer generated. I know, I have Robert Miles's 'Children' in MIDI format. With everyone's permission, I'll attach it to my next mail and post it to the list for everyone to listen to. The MIDI file is very small, and so shouldn't take more than about 20 seconds to upload/download at full speed. It'll sound best on a wavetable sound card, as that's what it was composed and played on. On my sound card, it sounds like the original CD version, because the quality is so good. If someone disagrees about me attaching and posting it to the list, I'll email it personally to anyone who requests it (please try it). Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:49:23 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music harry haecker wrote: > > My $.25 worth: > > >I thought that Philip Glass is a classical music composer. And he is > >living. And there is even more composers, which are not doing > >pop-style of music. > > >Martin > > The problem here is with definition: > > The "Classical Era" in music began sometime in the very late 17th c., after the > "Baroque Era" epitomized by J.S. Bach, and continued through the 18th c., up to > the time of Beethoven, who is considered to have ushered in the "Romantic Era." > > "Classical music" has also been thought of as all music which is > through-written; that is, written down note-by-note on manuscript paper. As > with all living art forms (and language, for that matter) definitions change: > now that we have electronic methods of composition and no way for a person other > than the composer to recreate the piece (and many times they can't, either!), > the definition has switched from how the piece was written to where it is played > and who listens to it. > > Like it or not, "classical" music (BTW, I've always hated that term) tends to be > elitist: more often than not, it is listened to and played by college-educated > people who sit in concert halls staring at the performer(s) and/or the tape > machine; people who can afford music lessons and instrument; and/or afford the > recordings and electronic playback machines. I was schooled in this area and > have alternately embraced and eschewed the institution. > > "Popular" [dance] music (whether or not it is truly popular) requires none of > these trappings: if you have the $$ to buy a beer at the local dance club (or > friends to mooch off of), you can zone out without having to think for _many_ > hours. That's the deal with "classical" music: it requires extended > concentration for a more full listening experience. Good or bad, dance music > requires nothing of you-- least of all, extended, focused, thought. Both have > their places, and taken together DO NOT encompass even .01% of what is out > there; that is, I do not consider it a dichotomous situation. > > Harry Haecker > (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) Harry, you've been on this list for months haven't you!!! I remember you from when I was last on! OK everyone, although I have been so synical about classical music, you've forced it out of me! I play classical guitar, and don't mind it. I quite like some of the tunes, their just hard to play! This doesn't mean I could sit down and listen to a classical piece though! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:53:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Wrong email address... POSTMASTER In-Reply-To: <3219B1A4.1D55@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 20, 96 12:37:56 pm > If the supervisor to this list is reading this, I think you'd better sort > this out and wipe their subscription if they've changed email address's. > I've had a few of them, and just recieved another four. Just did so. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:44:45 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: Arvo Part Paulo Mouat ,Internet - nile.com writes: What about Arvo Part? He is surely more 'classical' than Stockhausen. And is younger too. I have "Te Deum" and I love it, but that's all I've heard, what other compositions might you recommend? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:06:56 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Joe McMahon wrote: > > For those of you who've been claiming that through-composed, annotated music > is dead, I'd like to suggest a few possibilities: > > - W. Carlos "A Clockwork Orange" soundtrack > "Switched-On Bach" (available on CD) (NOT SOB 2000 :P) > "The Well-Tempered Synthesizer > - Larry Fast as "Synergy": > Cords > Electronic Realizations for Rock Orchestra > Sequencer > several others > - Stephen Scott "The Tears of Niobe" > - John Cage "Sonatas for Prepared Piano" > - Harry Partch "Castor and Pollux" > "Barstow" > - Karlheinz Stockhausen "Kontakte" (all-electronic version) > "Song of the Youth" > Check out Debussy's piano works, Ravel (NOT the Bolero, which he ended up > hating), Copland (Appalachian Spring, Billy the Kid), Ralph Vaughn Williams, > Benjamin Britten, Arnold Schoenberg (Transfigured Night, Pierrot lunaire). > > There are lots of others, certainly. Ravel, Debussy, Copland, Vaughn Williams, > Britten, and Schoenberg will probably be available in your local public > library. > > --- Joe M. Oh, I've got Copland in MIDI format if you want me to send a copy to you. I didn't download it, or copy it from someone, or even buy it, because I'm sure everyone knows how much I detest Classical music! It came with my soundcard, and it doesn't sound that bad compared to some I've heard! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:21:35 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Re[2]: Classical Music Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.ucsd.edu wrote: > > > I went to a classical music concert once (actually, about 2 months ago) > and half way through it, I fell asleep! I only went because I was > bribed! > I went to a dance party once and left about half way through brcause I > thought the music was boring. Do you care? > Oh, and the conductor! He's/She's someone who stands there in the middle > of the stage with his/her back to the audience, and they do some sort of > ritual dance to the musicians! Why they get paid??? > Well, it's true that if the music goes WUM, WUMP, WUMP you probably > wouldn't need them, but then again... Well I suppose that we enjoy different types of music, BUT THERE'S NO NEED TO BE SARCASTIC!!!! Can't you please just settle our differences and argue like everyone else is? Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:41:32 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nikki Halpern <101762.3705@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Pierre Henry Francis Gosselin wrote: >On an other note, I'm looking for Pierre Henry stuff on CD. Especially >the early stuff he did with Pierre Schaeffer. Does anyone have a >complete discography on file or know a web site with one on it ?? OK. This is the essential stuff: Pierre Schaeffer: L'oeuvre Musicale, INA-GRM, 1990. This is a 4-CD set which includes all the Schaeffer-Henry stuff. Pierre Henry des Annees Cinquante: Mantra Records 032, 1991. All his works 1950-59. Fantastic. 2 CD's, I think. I believe someone already mentioned: Variations pour une porte et un soupir (1963): Harmonia mundi, 1987. And some others: Messe de Liverpool (1967), Pierres reflechies (1982): Mantra Records 023. Mouvement-Rythme-Etude (1970): Mantra Records (I don't know the number). La dixieme symphonie de Beethoven (1986): Philips 420636-2, 1988. Le livre des morts egyptien (1990): Mantra Records 043. This isn't everything, but I believe it is most of what's available in CD. I don't know how you can get ahold of Mantra, but INA-GRM is at: 116, avenue President Kennedy 75786 Paris Cedex16 France tel: (33-1) 42.30.29.88 fax: (33-1) 42.30.49.88 Someone mentioned that the Centre de Documentation de la Musique Contemporaine might be able to help, but I _think_ he gave you their old address. They moved a couple of years ago to: Cite de la Musique 16, place le la Fontaine aux Lions 75019 Paris, France tel: (33-1) 47.15.47.15 fax: (33-1) 47.15.49.89 Hope this helps. Ben Thigpen 101762.3705@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:58:21 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: Re: Wrong email address... POSTMASTER Andrew Whittle ,Internet - nile.com writes: Did everyone here recieve a POSTMASTER mail four times about an unknown user? Yes, every time I send a post to this group I get an "undeliverable" mail from the POSTMASTER (no one at this address) - that's why I've sent posts twice - because I thought they weren't getting through - I'll just ignore them. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:41:21 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: Arvo Part > I have "Te Deum" and I love it, but that's all I've heard, what > other compositions might you recommend? I don't have much of Part. In addition to 'Te Deum' I have 'Passio,' which I like very much (small ensemble and a few singers, which makes it a very 'exact' piece--one track, some 70:00 long). I'd say that if you like what you have, then go for any of his pieces, I guess they all have the same ambiance. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:41:59 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: Classical Music > No, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Eric on this one! > > Classical music is well and truley DEAD in this generation, and > generations to come. This is nonsense. Here we are, discussing composers some two hundred years old, when the artists that die are those belonging to pop/rock/ whatever--how many of them existed that are now long forgotten? A similar fate expects most of the currently trendy. And some of them I like much, but that should not hinder the judgment of the musical value of pieces, whatever that may be. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:46:40 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mario Daniel Collantes Subject: Re: Classical Music I think that the music classic continues the elitic form lamently. And i , from argentina, don't know clasical performers today. Mario Daniel Collantes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:56:20 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Discussion... In-Reply-To: <321A10A6.94B@dial.pipex.com> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:23:18 +0000, Andrew Whittle wrote: >Well, I could definately put all the composers I know into the same bag, >the Garbage bag, along with all the others, like Back, Beethoven, etc. >I don't think I'll ever have the gutts to say to my friends, "Yesterday I >went out and bought Mozarts new album!"!!! >My mom likes classical, my grand-parents like it, but me and my dad HATE >it! Come on, Andy! Let us talk about something more substantial. It's your right to hate what doesn't please you. But, it isn't very interesting... BTW, it seems that you hated that kind of music before you ever listened to it. bye, Chris --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:01:38 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Discussion... In-Reply-To: <321A1372.17C@dial.pipex.com> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:35:14 +0000, Andrew Whittle wrote: >I know, I have Robert Miles's 'Children' in MIDI format. With everyone's >permission, I'll attach it to my next mail and post it to the list for >everyone to listen to. The MIDI file is very small, and so shouldn't >take more than about 20 seconds to upload/download at full speed. >It'll sound best on a wavetable sound card, as that's what it was >composed and played on. On my sound card, it sounds like the original CD >version, because the quality is so good. Ha. Robert Miles' "Children" sounds like a demosong of the Kurzweil K2000 (or k2500). In fact, I think I heard only factory-presets. It would be funny to proof that by loading the MIDI File. Otherwise, this piece is poor IMHO, very poor. It caused me many times to switch off my car tuner. Cheers, Chris --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:51:18 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Emiliano Canal Subject: Argentinian users Hey, hay un argentino ahí? Somos dos (sorry, this is the only way to meet) Emiliano Canal -Argentina jcanal@century.com.ar