========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:09:24 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: Classical Music Andy, Maybe you should think about picking up some books to further your knowledge and understanding of music in general. I would recommend Schwartz and Godfrey's "Music Since 1945" (Schirmer publishing) Personally, I am open to all styles of music, but primarily music written after 1950 or so. . . I don't spend much time with music from the pop culture; however, I refuse to let my ignorance of pop music influence my judgement of this music. For those of you who think classical music is dead, or inaccesible. . . I'm reminded of a letter that Mozart write way back in the 1700's where he explained how overwhelmed he was to have an audience that consisted of over 150 people! We seem to overlook composers like: Russell Pinkston, Dominic Argento, John Corigliano, Donald Grantham, James Mobberley, Jacob Druckman, Donald Erb, Charles Argersinger, etc. . . We primarily think of Philip Glass, Riley, Adams, Reich, Stravinsky, or Schoenberg when we think about "serious" music (hey.. someone else brought up the term). We forget that the first four composers represent only a movement in late 20th century music, while the last two are Dead! Keep listening . . . you'll get it. M. Ray McFerron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "R. Albert Falesch" Subject: Re: Classical Music To Andy, Eric, and any other sorrowful souls: Get a copy of Mahler Symphony Number 6, by the Chicago Symphony conducted by Georg Solti (yes, it is crucial to get the right performance. There are other recordings of this that I'd recommend, but this one serves up the knockout punches very often, and I think you need to be seriously pounded on!). This is a 1972 performance issued now on a CD. Go straight to the 4th movement. Prepare to sit, and concentrate, for 22 minutes. Make sure your woofers are in good shape. Then CRANK THAT THING FOR ALL IT'S GOT. If you're not willing to give total concentration for a measly 22 minutes, then forget it. Pop music is where you should be. If it doesn't make your blood boil, then, well, you're out 22 minutes. B-F-D! If you want music that does not challenge you, that does not impale you with the searing sword of passion orgiastic madness, then please do not listen to classical music (actually, Mahler, who bridged the 19th and 20th centuries, wrote music in the "late-romantic" style -- 100 years after the classical period ended). This is often called "classical music", but it is so far from Bach and Mozart. The point is: People tend to lump together under "classical" musics that are tremendously contrasting. You may hate the music of Bach or Mozart. Fine, but your head might do a spin upon hearing other styles. Classical music is not for the elite, it is not for the super-intelligent, it is not for the bookworms or nerds. It is for anyone who wants their art in the form of sound. ART. This is not the generation for whom classical music is dead. Is it the generation for whom ART is dead? Bob Falesch R. Albert Falesch | raf@interaccess.com | http://homepage.interaccess.com/~raf | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:29:39 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321AB45A.448B@interaccess.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:01:46 -0500, "R. Albert Falesch" wrote: >This is often called "classical music", but it is so far from Bach and >Mozart. The point is: People tend to lump together under "classical" >musics that are tremendously contrasting. You may hate the music of >Bach or Mozart. Fine, but your head might do a spin upon hearing other >styles. Again, I'd like to stop this 'what is Classics' thread. If you define Classics as the historical music period, Bach is NOT classical as well. He composed music in a very different way than Mozart, Haydn and others. There was no functional harmony as we know it from then on. It was pure baroque polyphony. But, as we can see until nowadays, the basics of the fugue are still demanding, almost every composer has dealt with it in some way. bye, Chris --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:29:34 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <199608201753.UAA03249@relay1.impsat1.com> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 20:46:40 -0300, Mario Daniel Collantes wrote: >I think that the music classic continues the elitic form lamently. And i , >from argentina, don't know clasical performers today. Sorry, but this whole discussion is obsolete. It's not important if you classify any music as 'Classics' or not. In fact, every composer in the last 150 years is not a classical one. According to my understanding, there's just good music and bad music, and that's as well a subjective rating. Composers with broad success will be remembered and played, others not. So what? It would be more interesting if we would discuss the intentions or underlayed theory of compositions, not their taxonomy. What is the great difference between contemporary pop/rock and Classic? Are there any big changes in harmony? No. Pop/rock is quite reactionary in that case. Musically, Chris. --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:29:36 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <960821020923_506405958@emout19.mail.aol.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:09:24 -0400, "M. Ray McFerron" wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ :) funny alias, PBoulez1. >For those of you who think classical music is dead, or inaccesible. . . I'm >reminded of a letter that Mozart write way back in the 1700's where he >explained how overwhelmed he was to have an audience that consisted of over >150 people! Mozart too was a popular composer, at least partially. Unsatisfied with the music politics of the Austrian emperor, he wrote for the 'people's opera' as well, not only for the aristocratic art scene, f.i. the Zauberfloete. So far, I can't see the difference between 'serious' and 'popular' music. >We seem to overlook composers like: Russell Pinkston, Dominic Argento, John >Corigliano, Donald Grantham, James Mobberley, Jacob Druckman, Donald Erb, >Charles Argersinger, etc. . . >We primarily think of Philip Glass, Riley, Adams, Reich, Stravinsky, or >Schoenberg when we think about "serious" music (hey.. someone else brought up >the term). We forget that the first four composers represent only a movement >in late 20th century music, while the last two are Dead! You're right. I don't know most of the names you mentioned above, unfortunately. There's a gap I have to fill. And yes, they represent movements. In this century there is no more one big movement but many. You can compose in every style you like to. If you're smart enough, you still can invent new things. The only question is, is it interesting or not. If enough people are listening, the music will survive. bye, Chris. --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:23:41 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Timothy Kelly wrote: > > Hi All, > Classical Music is very uplifting and healing, it expresses a joy of > sound in the best pieces, and is still being written today by thousands > and thousands of composers. > The main difficulty for a modern classical composer is its very hard > for him or her to find a live orchestra that will play anything written > now. Thats why I wish more classical composers would take advantage of > midi, there is no reason why one couldnt write a symphony and then > record it via midi and get ones pieces out there. > Even better would be writing for synths in the classical styles, > which allows one to do things that would be impossible for live players > to do, using instruments, tone colors that dont exist in the real > world, except as synth sounds. > Where are the great midi symphonyies? Synth quartets? > Sound can be uplifting or destructive, and this applies to > electronic sound as well as live orchestra sound. > One may not like classical music, but all that means that one is > dead to the beauty and wonder that can be found in it, not that > classical music is dead. > Happy Emusic > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox > -- > MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. > BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. > > Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. > EM's Editors Choice. > > Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, > Sing Like a Sax? MIDIVOX returns to try and premote its product for thousands of pounds, which no-one is serious enough to go out and buy!! I won't even comment on that little piece of text! I STILL don't see why people like classical that much! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:25:05 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Eric Leretaille wrote: > > My previous message on classical music has engendered many reactions. More > than I expected myself. > > I just add this one to say that I hope nobody felt hurt by what has been > written. > > Eric, Paris > > Aris7@aol.com SAME HERE! Sorry if anyone feels hurt by what I've said about classical music, don't take it personally! Sorry if I did! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 06:36:38 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathanael W Berry Subject: Re: Classical Music >> I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because >> classical music is dead. >> I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel >satisfied >> with an art that doesn't evolue. I think you might just be out of the "correct circles". There are new pieces in the classical genre being produced on a regular basis. Check out symphony schedules, community concerts, and educational (college, university, etc) venues. Like most media, you are likely to here "popular" tunes quite often (just like "classic rock" stations). Major symphonic institutions often do a concert or two per year of "new" music, not always premiering, but quite recent works. If you have the chance, take a music appreciation course. A good course should touch on lots of different types of music from classic, rock, pop, jazz, folk, world (now *there* is a good LUMPING isnt it!), etc. Nate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:46:05 -500 Reply-To: rgough@mechtech.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Robert Gough Organization: Mechanical Technology Inc. Subject: Re: Discussion... Among dozens of other messages Andrew Whittle recently wrote: > > > I like all of these, and any indie bands in general. > > > > Sorry, I know none of them. I think I don't even know what 'Indie' > > stands for. > > > Indie doesn't stand for anything, it's just something someone thought up > and thought it would be a good name for that style! Indie is short for independent and used to refer to bands record and release their own albums without the backing of a record company. Lately I think it has come to mean any artist who associated with a major record label such as Columbia, WEA, etc. While I'm on the > > >I also like dance, rave, house and pop music. I can't stand classical > > >though! I don't know how people can listen to it! Unless it's a really > > >catchy tune, which is played a lot, and has plenty of fast solos, I just > > >can't hear the difference between them all! That's because modern pop culture has reduced your span of attention to the length of time between TV commercials. Read a book now and then, for cryin' out loud. > > Modern composers... you can't name them if they haven't already > > produced a remarkable piece of work. But, who knows, maybe Zappa will > > be remembered as a 20th century giant as well as Messiaen, Davis, > > Boulez, Stravinsky and others? > > > > After all, who cares about taxonomy? > > > > There are hundreds of composers in each century nobody ever does > > remember anymore. It will be the same with our century. > > > > True! Soon there will be another century of music! Maybe in the future, > there will be a drug you take that lets your mind think your at a concert > of the latest band or something like that, > I certainly hope not. > > > I'm beginning to think I'm the only person on this list who doesn't like > classical music! Please, anyone who doesn't like classical either, reply > to the list and help me combat all classical enthusiasts! > That's because much of the readership of this list are musicians (electronic musicians) who, whether they like what you refer to as "classical" music or not, identify closely with those composers because they spend a lot of their time doing the same thing, composing music. Your efforts to stimulate discussion on this list do not go unappreciated, however, next time try writing about a subject you know something about. You obviously know little about "classical" music if the only composers you can name are Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Handel (particularly since only one of these is a classical composer). I don't think anyone here wants to enter into combat. Write about something you like, not about how much you hate one form of music or another because that's sure to draw heated response from those who like it. Cheers, Bob. Robert Gough (518) 785-2444 Software Engineer rgough@mechtech.com Mechanical Technology Inc. www.mechtech.com/rgough/ ========================================================== "I am resplendent in divergence." - Robert Fripp ========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Subject: Wanted: classical music, dead or alive In-Reply-To: <321A13E1.5575@dial.pipex.com> Andrew, I'm sorry that you and your dad and your classmates don't like classical music. But the world is much bigger than just you, your dad and your classmates. If you want to pretend that you know that classical music is dead, go ahead and pretend that. But just because you pretend that doesn't make it so. The sky is not falling, and classical music is not dead. -- Kirk Corey, classical music lover, and durn proud to say so. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:31:08 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: Classical Music >Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: >> >> >I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because >> >classical music is dead. >> >I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied >> >with an art that doesn't evolue. >> > >> >Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that >> >remain today are just oldies. >> > >> >Eric, Paris >> > >> >Aris7@aol.com >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>----- >> >> Eric, >> >> Such a wanton and brazen demonstration of one's ability to fit his "hat >> rack" this far into his "exhaust" will go unchallenged on this list for >> some time to come! You obviously have no idea of that which you speak. I >> strongly recommend that you run right out today and acquire some classical >> music appreciation CD's and begin to fill the obvious void you have on this >> subject. If you start today, you may scratch the surface in several years >> of concentrated effort. It will, trust me, take you a lifetime to really >> garner an appreciation. >> >> Alan Bookmiller > >No, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Eric on this one! > >Classical music is well and truley DEAD in this generation, and >generations to come. > >Later, > >Andy :o) >-- >Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com >http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 > >"Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy, Who appointed you the voice of "your" generation? I believe there are plenty of people in "your" generation that have a profound appreciation of "classical" music. There are even some great performers coming along in "your" generation. I don't suppose anyone who listens to music from such groups as "Garbage" will be changed in his opinions, so go on and do your thing, but don't speak for "your" generation, or for those to come - you, from your narrow perspective, are not qualified. Alan Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:45:40 -500 Reply-To: rgough@mechtech.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Robert Gough Organization: Mechanical Technology Inc. Subject: Re: Pierre Henry Andrew Whittle wrote: > > > On an other note, I'm looking for Pierre Henry stuff on CD. Especially > > > the early stuff he did with Pierre Schaeffer. Does anyone have a > > > complete discography on file or know a web site with one on it ?? > > > No, sorry, I can't help! > > Try using a search engine and looking him up. > > Or ask around various places for MIDI's of him. Use a MIDI composition > program and often the author leaves an email address or post address. > Write to them and ask them for help. > MIDI files of musique concrete??? Yeah, I think my AWE32 card has a sqeaky door voice ;-) Cheers, Bob Robert Gough (518) 785-2444 Software Engineer rgough@mechtech.com Mechanical Technology Inc. www.mechtech.com/rgough/ ========================================================== "I am resplendent in divergence." - Robert Fripp ========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:54:50 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: Classical Music >I will reveal one of my many secrets now, I am 13 years old from England Aha, this explains a lot!! >In my class in school I know just one person who listens to classical >music! He goes to church EVERY Sunday morning for service, to any church >events, to any church meetings and helps with anything possible to do >with the church. I held a birthday part in December, I invited him, he >said he couldn't come because he had to go and watch a junior classical >music festival. It wasn't that he was forced, he would rather be there >with his parents than with his friends at a movie! He is a very strange >boy! He sounds very intelligent to me. You ought to emulate him. The only reason he's lonely is that he's the only one in his class with the sense and motivation to develop his mind and talents to their fullest, rather than sitting on his duff being an e-mail smart-ass. "There are more things in Heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" If you can figure out what this means, or even who said it (hint: it was a fellow countryman of yours) you'll be off to a good start. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:59:03 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: boring Classical Music thread >I STILL don't see why people like classical that much! >Andy :) Andy, at the risk of sounding condescending, may I give some gentle advice which is intended to actually help you? Take all of the replies to your thread from the various "pro-classical music lovers" on this list, and act on them! I think you have been handled very gently by the members of this list, re: "classical music is obsolete." On some lists you would have been flamed all the way to Hades; or worse, ignored for a comparable remark. I don't know if you like to read just for the sheer sake of enjoyment, but the books listed are very good starting point-- as are the discographies (Walter Carlos' "Timesteps" literally changed my life...and Mahler *is* orgasmic). FOLLOW THROUGH!! There is no stopping you if you want to expand your brain legally! :-) But I think it's safe to say that many of the people who comprise this list are or have been music instructors or students or just love it so much that they know no boundaries to music. A potentially inflammatory statement like (and I paraphrase here) "Classical music sux, and anyone who likes it is a dweeb" serves nothing to help the list...or you! Besides all of that, this is an electronic music discussion list-- not a forum for extended, hollow discussions on the pros and cons of "classsical" (whatever that means!) music. The world of music is WAY too big to merely snub your nose at a whole body of music about which you are naive. We didn't get to where we are today from a vacuum: there is a logical, historical sequence of events which brought us all to where we are musically (and sociologically, for that matter). One needs a strong foundation upon which to build up their psyche tower. If you ever hope to be a well-rounded individual, and not some brain-dead club-hopper at age 53, make as many brain connections as possible. Have no fear: you WON'T be a nerd. Nerds are those people who can only talk about two or three topics, max...and the one topic about which they spend the vast majority of their time talking is THEMSELVES! How about checking out some pieces from the suggested listening lists and report back in a week? Listen more than once to a given piece; four times minimum is best. Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:06:58 -500 Reply-To: rgough@mechtech.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Robert Gough Organization: Mechanical Technology Inc. Subject: Re: Classical Music Andy Whittle > I will reveal one of my many secrets now, I am 13 years old ... That's painfully apparent. > In my class in school I know just one person who listens to classical > music! He goes to church EVERY Sunday morning for service, to any church > events, to any church meetings and helps with anything possible to do > with the church. > ... > He is a very strange boy! > ... > He reads two > books a day, 1 in school and 1 at home. Sometimes a novel (e.g. Steven > King, etc.). He spends all of the school break times sitting on his bag, > in a corner, reading his latest book. He spends lunch times in the > library reading. He has 5 library tickets, which he paid for wheras > everyone else has one. He watches 1 TV program once every week, and > occasianally a James Bond film when it is on, although he has already got > every single James Bond book, and read them all. > I HAVE NO INTENTION OF BEING LIKE HIM!!! HE IS A VERY VERY LONELY > PERSON!!! > He sounds like a far more enlightened and interesting person than you are. Instead of reviling him for being different, why not accept the fact and learn what you can from him. Nobody wants you to be like him, but don't ostracize him because he prefers books to TV! Cheers, Bob Robert Gough (518) 785-2444 Software Engineer rgough@mechtech.com Mechanical Technology Inc. www.mechtech.com/rgough/ ========================================================== "I am resplendent in divergence." - Robert Fripp ========================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:38:07 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Classical Music Mark Simon said: > I was brought up listening to and playing classical music. That's the music > that turns me on the most. I often wonder how people can put up with this > stuff that just goes THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP. It just goes to show you. Your > tastes are formed early on. I grew up on Beatles, Stones, Peter, Paul, & Mary, Alan Sherman, Warner Brothers cartoons (Carl Stalling) etc. When Disco killed Art Rock and listening clubs in the 70's, I considered it to be merely THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP music. Compared to some of today's THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP music, I consider Disco to be MUCH more intricate and "well composed." > mountains of new scores come past my desk every day. "Billions and billions" > to quote one of Cornell's most famous professors. Much more than all the Actually, it was a Carl Sagan parody that is the source of that quote. Carl never actually said it himself! Returning to music, I don't get why orchestra, etc. don't include a greater amount of contemporary composers in their repetoire. Do you have to be John Williams with the Boston Pops at your disposal in order to be played? > You might want to search out an album called "Hoodoo Zephyr" by John Adams > to get an idea of what one type of contemporary "classical" composer is > doing today. It's electronic music too, which makes it especially worthy of > mention on this list. Thanks for the tip. Keep it at the ready because I'll be in Freeville for the Labor Day weekend. If you're around and I have spare time, (I don't know what my family has planned) I'll give you a call to see if we can hook up for a few hours. Andrew Whittle said: > I will reveal one of my many secrets now, I am 13 years old from England From the time that I was 13 to now, I've known few 13-year-olds who would admit to liking "classical" music. Yet, most of our popular music is based on the same 12 tone scale and harmonic vocabulary. Sure, there have been extensions to that vocabulary, changes in temperament, different scales explored, even a total abandonment of scale. But it ALL points back to Baroque in one way or another. Every time you play a G7 C chord progression at the end of a musical phrase on your guitar, you've played the same PAC (Perfect Authentic Cadence) that Bach used. Once you start learning what you have in common with "Classical" music, appreciating it, if not liking it, is just around the corner. How many "adults" out there hated classical music in their youth, yet have at least a few classical music CDs in their collection? Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com (Switching to william_b_fox@lucent.com so give it a try!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Golly, I guess typomeningitis is communicable via email. I punched (31/4)-4 on my calculator. Quick! Open an X-File! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:37:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread Comments: To: haeckerh@OSPREY.NWRC.GOV Great suggestions HArry! It might be good for the list as a whole if we all became invested in the musical education of Andy. (We might all learn something in the process, too) -Peter >I STILL don't see why people like classical that much! >Andy :) Andy, at the risk of sounding condescending, may I give some gentle advice which is intended to actually help you? Take all of the replies to your thread from the various "pro-classical music lovers" on this list, and act on them! I think you have been handled very gently by the members of this list, re: "classical music is obsolete." On some lists you would have been flamed all the way to Hades; or worse, ignored for a comparable remark. I don't know if you like to read just for the sheer sake of enjoyment, but the books listed are very good starting point-- as are the discographies (Walter Carlos' "Timesteps" literally changed my life...and Mahler *is* orgasmic). FOLLOW THROUGH!! There is no stopping you if you want to expand your brain legally! :-) But I think it's safe to say that many of the people who comprise this list are or have been music instructors or students or just love it so much that they know no boundaries to music. A potentially inflammatory statement like (and I paraphrase here) "Classical music sux, and anyone who likes it is a dweeb" serves nothing to help the list...or you! Besides all of that, this is an electronic music discussion list-- not a forum for extended, hollow discussions on the pros and cons of "classsical" (whatever that means!) music. The world of music is WAY too big to merely snub your nose at a whole body of music about which you are naive. We didn't get to where we are today from a vacuum: there is a logical, historical sequence of events which brought us all to where we are musically (and sociologically, for that matter). One needs a strong foundation upon which to build up their psyche tower. If you ever hope to be a well-rounded individual, and not some brain-dead club-hopper at age 53, make as many brain connections as possible. Have no fear: you WON'T be a nerd. Nerds are those people who can only talk about two or three topics, max...and the one topic about which they spend the vast majority of their time talking is THEMSELVES! How about checking out some pieces from the suggested listening lists and report back in a week? Listen more than once to a given piece; four times minimum is best. Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from atlanta.american.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id IAA08345 sendmail 8.6. >Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.e >Received: from AMERICAN.EDU by AMERICAN.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with >Received: from jericho.american.edu (jericho.american.edu [147.9.1.8]) by >Received: (from daemon@localhost) by jericho.american.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id >Received: from bp.ucs.usl.edu (root@bp.ucs.usl.edu [130.70.40.36]) by >Received: from nwrc.gov (wetlands.nwrc.gov) (wetlands.nwrc.gov [159.189.128.5]) >Received: from osprey.nwrc.gov by nwrc.gov (5.0/NWRC-2.2V1) id AA00523; Wed, 21 >Receive >Content-Length: 2319 >Message-ID: <9607218406.AA840646750@osprey.nwrc.gov> >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 >Reply-T >Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker >Subject: boring Classical Music thread >To: Multiple re ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321aed2a.4042913@unet.univie.ac.at> from "Christian Roth" at Aug 21, 96 11:29:34 am > It would be more interesting if we would discuss the intentions or > underlayed theory of compositions, not their taxonomy. > Yes. Examples are always useful, especially examples which can be found at the library, for those who are SURE they don't want to spend money on learning about this stuff... > What is the great difference between contemporary pop/rock and > Classic? Are there any big changes in harmony? No. Pop/rock is quite > reactionary in that case. Indeed. Many people during the Lennon/McCartney era noted that the harmonic structures were very similar to those found in Baroque and early Classical forms. Current musical styles seem to be drawing more from Impressionist and Late Romantic sources. You hear a lot more Neapolitan sixths and other non-chordal stuff in "alternative" music, as well as nontraditional musical forms. This stuff is important NOT because it's "serious" or "accepted", but because there is a lot of work by many, many people encapsulated in this music. A composer who declines to draw upon this experience is voluntarily cutting him/herself off from a lot of useful tools. Knowing your audience's expectations, and then being able to go in unexpected directions, will make your music more interesting. Understanding traditional idioms of form, harmony, and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your music. --- Joe M. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:54:58 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music - admin warning In-Reply-To: <321A48FD.401B@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 20, 96 11:23:41 pm > MIDIVOX returns to try and premote its product for thousands of pounds, > which no-one is serious enough to go out and buy!! > > I won't even comment on that little piece of text! I STILL don't see why > people like classical that much! > Personal attacks are not accepted behavior on EMUSIC-L. That's one. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:59:24 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Mario Daniel Collantes wrote: > > I think that the music classic continues the elitic form lamently. And i , > from argentina, don't know clasical performers today. > > Mario Daniel Collantes ????????? Neither do I! Please don't complicate my mind wit these matters! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:47:27 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Wrong email address... POSTMASTER Scott Purman wrote: > > Andrew Whittle ,Internet - nile.com writes: > Did everyone here recieve a POSTMASTER mail four times about an unknown > user? > > Yes, every time I send a post to this group I get an "undeliverable" mail > from the POSTMASTER (no one at this address) - that's why I've sent posts twice > - because I thought they weren't getting through - I'll just ignore them. Good. I was beginning to think it was my server! Mr/Mrs/Miss WEBMASTER of Emusic-L, I know you've tried to sort this problem out, it's still here! Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:57:37 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Christian Roth wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:27:13 +0000, Andrew Whittle > wrote: > > >I'm beginning to think I'm the only person on this list who doesn't like > >classical music! Please, anyone who doesn't like classical either, reply > >to the list and help me combat all classical enthusiasts! > > I just can't see where a combat like that should lead to. > > BTW, modern popular 'composers' use the harmonic scheme the Classical > colleagues invented. No big evolution so far. > > What should the combat be about? Just personal tastes? > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com There isn't really a COMBAT! It's just everyone who enjoy's c?????? is cornering me on the list and off! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:00:29 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Christian Roth wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:23:18 +0000, Andrew Whittle > wrote: > > >Well, I could definately put all the composers I know into the same bag, > >the Garbage bag, along with all the others, like Back, Beethoven, etc. > >I don't think I'll ever have the gutts to say to my friends, "Yesterday I > >went out and bought Mozarts new album!"!!! > >My mom likes classical, my grand-parents like it, but me and my dad HATE > >it! > > Come on, Andy! Let us talk about something more substantial. It's your > right to hate what doesn't please you. > But, it isn't very interesting... > > BTW, it seems that you hated that kind of music before you ever > listened to it. > > bye, > Chris > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com Well your sort of right! And talking about all this C??????? isn't very interesting! CAN WE PLEASE CHANGE THE SUBJECT??? Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:55:45 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Paulo Mouat wrote: > > > No, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Eric on this one! > > > > Classical music is well and truley DEAD in this generation, and > > generations to come. > > This is nonsense. Here we are, discussing composers some two hundred > years old, when the artists that die are those belonging to pop/rock/ > whatever--how many of them existed that are now long forgotten? A > similar fate expects most of the currently trendy. And some of them > I like much, but that should not hinder the judgment of the musical > value of pieces, whatever that may be. > > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| OK, I'll tell you now. I was brought up listening to 80's music. I love all those synthesiser sounds! I just can't get away from computer geneerated noises, so C??????? (I said I wouldn't say the word c?????? anymore because everyone's had enough), just isn't in my vocabulary (neither is spelling as you can see). Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:01:45 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Discussion... Christian Roth wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:35:14 +0000, Andrew Whittle > wrote: > > >I know, I have Robert Miles's 'Children' in MIDI format. With everyone's > >permission, I'll attach it to my next mail and post it to the list for > >everyone to listen to. The MIDI file is very small, and so shouldn't > >take more than about 20 seconds to upload/download at full speed. > >It'll sound best on a wavetable sound card, as that's what it was > >composed and played on. On my sound card, it sounds like the original CD > >version, because the quality is so good. > > Ha. Robert Miles' "Children" sounds like a demosong of the Kurzweil > K2000 (or k2500). In fact, I think I heard only factory-presets. > It would be funny to proof that by loading the MIDI File. > Otherwise, this piece is poor IMHO, very poor. It caused me many times > to switch off my car tuner. > > Cheers, > Chris > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com ????? You want me to send you 'Children' in MIDI via EMAIL??? If you do, ask! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:40:01 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music M. Ray McFerron wrote: > > Andy, > > Maybe you should think about picking up some books to further your knowledge > and understanding of music in general. I would recommend Schwartz and > Godfrey's "Music Since 1945" (Schirmer publishing) Personally, I am open to > all styles of music, but primarily music written after 1950 or so. . . I > don't spend much time with music from the pop culture; however, I refuse to > let my ignorance of pop music influence my judgement of this music. > > For those of you who think classical music is dead, or inaccesible. . . I'm > reminded of a letter that Mozart write way back in the 1700's where he > explained how overwhelmed he was to have an audience that consisted of over > 150 people! > > We seem to overlook composers like: Russell Pinkston, Dominic Argento, John > Corigliano, Donald Grantham, James Mobberley, Jacob Druckman, Donald Erb, > Charles Argersinger, etc. . . > > We primarily think of Philip Glass, Riley, Adams, Reich, Stravinsky, or > Schoenberg when we think about "serious" music (hey.. someone else brought up > the term). We forget that the first four composers represent only a movement > in late 20th century music, while the last two are Dead! > > Keep listening . . . you'll get it. > M. Ray McFerron NO! Please don't make me start to listen to classical music! I'm getting hammered against a wall here by everyone who does like it, which is just about everyone on this list!!! Andy :| -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:33:17 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music R. Albert Falesch wrote: > > To Andy, Eric, and any other sorrowful souls: > > Get a copy of Mahler Symphony Number 6, by the Chicago Symphony > conducted by Georg Solti (yes, it is crucial to get the right > performance. There are other recordings of this that I'd recommend, > but this one serves up the knockout punches very often, and I think you > need to be seriously pounded on!). This is a 1972 performance issued > now on a CD. Go straight to the 4th movement. Prepare to sit, and > concentrate, for 22 minutes. Make sure your woofers are in good shape. > Then CRANK THAT THING FOR ALL IT'S GOT. If you're not willing to give > total concentration for a measly 22 minutes, then forget it. Pop music > is where you should be. > > If it doesn't make your blood boil, then, well, you're out 22 minutes. > B-F-D! If you want music that does not challenge you, that does not > impale you with the searing sword of passion orgiastic madness, then > please do not listen to classical music (actually, Mahler, who bridged > the 19th and 20th centuries, wrote music in the "late-romantic" style > -- 100 years after the classical period ended). > > This is often called "classical music", but it is so far from Bach and > Mozart. The point is: People tend to lump together under "classical" > musics that are tremendously contrasting. You may hate the music of > Bach or Mozart. Fine, but your head might do a spin upon hearing other > styles. > > Classical music is not for the elite, it is not for the > super-intelligent, it is not for the bookworms or nerds. It is for > anyone who wants their art in the form of sound. ART. This is not the > generation for whom classical music is dead. Is it the generation for > whom ART is dead? > > Bob Falesch > R. Albert Falesch | > raf@interaccess.com | > http://homepage.interaccess.com/~raf | OK, OK. I've given up on this classical thing!!! I'll say that I don't like Jazz instead, maybe I'll have less enemies that way! So, who else hates Jazz here? I've seen a few Jazz lovers around here somewhere. Later, Andy :o) p.s. TO THE WEBMASTER: The POSTMASTER notice is still appearing! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:37:44 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Musique. Matthijs Kouw wrote: > > Hey you all, > > I had the guts to spill this data all over you, please forgive me if any > harm was done. Hey Andy, you asked me what music I liked, well, that's a > long story because it's not only electronic music. In general, I like > several genres, techno (or electronic music, whatever) metal, rap and > alternative rock. > > Since I live in the Netherlands I have the chanze to keep up with the techno > scene, there are dozens of reord stores in Amsterdam you know. Well, my main > techno idols are: Unit Moebius, Rude 66, Autechre, Joey Beltram, Orbital, > Sensurreal and Underworld. There's a pretty extreme scene in the Hague and > that's where Unit Moebius comes from, pretty industrial stuff if I may say > so myself but I love it. The Autechre stuff is something I have great > respect for, they have been able to link technical sound to nice strings... > > I love listening to metal too, it's my favorite scene. I love bands like > Napalm Death, Sepultura, Cannibal Corpse, Nailbomb, Fear Factory, > Machinehead and Type O Negative. > > The alternative rock scene, well I like Nirvana, the Smashing Pumpkins, > Pennywise, Superchunk, Metal Molly, Therapy?, Rage against the Machine, Foo > Fighters and dozens more. > > I like to listen to rap bands like Cypress Hill and the Beastie Boys aswell. > Well, the list goes on and on but this small list ought to cover it. I only > want to add that I like the Police, Jimmi Hendrix and Frank Zappa aswell. > > To be quite honest, I HATE rave, because it's commercial music. It's just > crap, and especially the Eurohouse scene is full of shit, it's just mass > appeal madness you know. Since I live in a country where 60% of the charts > are commercial house tunes I have the right to say: been there, done that. > It's only a trend and it has nothing to do with the basics of original > music, in about 5 years the rave scene will be dead according to me. > > Greetings, > > Matthijs Kouw. > > mvk@dds.nl > http://huizen.dds.nl/~mvk Yep, your probably right about the rave thing! Have you heard of the Prodigy? If so, what would you class them as? Rave, techno, Classical??? I'm not sure myself. There are four types of music I can't stand! Classical, Jazz, Punk and Heavy Metal!!! I don't know many techno groups. There's Techno Headz, and another one which I don't know the name of. Later, Andy :o) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:44:42 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Classical Music >Hi All, > Classical Music is very uplifting and healing, it expresses a joy of >sound in the best pieces, and is still being written today by thousands >and thousands of composers. > The main difficulty for a modern classical composer is its very hard >for him or her to find a live orchestra that will play anything written >now. Thats why I wish more classical composers would take advantage of >midi, there is no reason why one couldnt write a symphony and then >record it via midi and get ones pieces out there. > Even better would be writing for synths in the classical styles, >which allows one to do things that would be impossible for live players >to do, using instruments, tone colors that dont exist in the real >world, except as synth sounds. > Where are the great midi symphonyies? Synth quartets? > Sound can be uplifting or destructive, and this applies to >electronic sound as well as live orchestra sound. > One may not like classical music, but all that means that one is >dead to the beauty and wonder that can be found in it, not that >classical music is dead. > Happy Emusic > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox >-- >MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. >BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. > >Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. >EM's Editors Choice. > >Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, >Sing Like a Sax? > -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:55:25 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread harry haecker wrote: > > >I STILL don't see why people like classical that much! > > >Andy :) > > Andy, at the risk of sounding condescending, may I give some gentle advice which > is intended to actually help you? Take all of the replies to your thread from > the various "pro-classical music lovers" on this list, and act on them! I think > you have been handled very gently by the members of this list, re: "classical > music is obsolete." On some lists you would have been flamed all the way to > Hades; or worse, ignored for a comparable remark. > > I don't know if you like to read just for the sheer sake of enjoyment, but the > books listed are very good starting point-- as are the discographies (Walter > Carlos' "Timesteps" literally changed my life...and Mahler *is* orgasmic). > FOLLOW THROUGH!! There is no stopping you if you want to expand your brain > legally! :-) But I think it's safe to say that many of the people who comprise > this list are or have been music instructors or students or just love it so much > that they know no boundaries to music. A potentially inflammatory statement > like (and I paraphrase here) "Classical music sux, and anyone who likes it is a > dweeb" serves nothing to help the list...or you! > > Besides all of that, this is an electronic music discussion list-- not a forum > for extended, hollow discussions on the pros and cons of "classsical" (whatever > that means!) music. The world of music is WAY too big to merely snub your nose > at a whole body of music about which you are naive. We didn't get to where we > are today from a vacuum: there is a logical, historical sequence of events which > brought us all to where we are musically (and sociologically, for that matter). > One needs a strong foundation upon which to build up their psyche tower. If you > ever hope to be a well-rounded individual, and not some brain-dead club-hopper > at age 53, make as many brain connections as possible. > > Have no fear: you WON'T be a nerd. Nerds are those people who can only talk > about two or three topics, max...and the one topic about which they spend the > vast majority of their time talking is THEMSELVES! > > How about checking out some pieces from the suggested listening lists and report > back in a week? Listen more than once to a given piece; four times minimum is > best. > > Harry Haecker > (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) Trust me, I HAVE been flamed by the users of this list, and I am beginning to get a little upset and annoyed! This whole classical subject and theme was started about 3-4 days ago by myself trying to lift this list off the ground, as it was recieving absaloutely no emails atall! I asked simply, what sort of music everyone was into, and I stated that I did not like classical music. NOW LOOK!!! OVER 100 emails from members of the list alone, in just 2 and a half days!!! I'm sure there is no-one on this list now who hasn't written to me privately and torched me about classical music, and basically threatened me! Who was it who said that classical music was DEAD? Have you had the same treatment I have? Or have they let you off because your not a kid??? Andy :( -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:51:59 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Re: Classical Music Let's all recall for a minute that when Mozart (one of many examples) was writing, no one really understood him, and he was roundly criticized for being so unlike the accepted music of the day. Very much the same way that some criticize modern music for not fitting into the established paradigms. Remember -- every new artistic movement is a reaction to the status quo, even his. Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no indication of my personal preferences, could it be: Chick Corea? Alanis Morisette? Snoop Doggy Dog? Clint Black? Elvis Costello? David Bowie? If you're laughing at some of these, remember, they laughed at Wolfgang, too. Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:38:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: Classical Music Comments: To: tah70@DIAL.PIPEX.COM OK, OK. I've given up on this classical thing!!! I'll say that I don't like Jazz instead, maybe I'll have less enemies that way! So, who else hates Jazz here? I've seen a few Jazz lovers around here somewhere. I hate to tell you Andy, I love Jazz, too. Especially the experimental stuff! Some of that stuff is pretty hard to tell the difference between it and experimental "classical" music, or some music based performance art. Probably just best to call it experimental music, period. Some examples would be the trombonist George Lewis, the sax player Anthony Braxton, and the group the Chicago Art Ensemble. Won't make the billboard charts though. And for the required E-music contact, George Lewis has come up with brilliant performer/computer interactive things. Is it Jazz? Who the F___ cares? Makes my heart pound though. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:46:32 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steve Gallant Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread Absolutely Wonderful! Well said, Harry Haecker! Steve Gallant (sgallant@ibl.bm) Warwick, Bermuda. Visit the Soundtrack Resource Center at http://pwp.ibl.bm/~sgallant/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:21:22 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Music For Film... Ben Cox wrote: > The discussion about whether one likes or doesn't like classical music > is completely out of place on EMUSIC-L. Furthermore, nobody gives a > shit if you like classical music or not. So drop it. > > -- Ben WELL I HAVE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY NOTICED!!! I WISH EVERYONE WOULD JUST DROP IT!!! NO WAIT, I WILL INSTEAD! I'M SURE EVERYONE WILL NOW BE GLAD TO HEAR, THAT I AM QUITTING THE EMUSIC-L LIST AND SAVING THE ADMIN A JOB!!!!!!!! I HOPE YOUR ALL HAPPY NOW! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:55:05 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321B4E7C.3A00@dial.pipex.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:59:24 +0000, Andrew Whittle wrote: >????????? >Neither do I! Please don't complicate my mind wit these matters! ????????? I fail to understand your postings... --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:55:02 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <199608211752.NAA05731@clark.net> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:52:04 -0400, Joe McMahon wrote: >and Late Romantic sources. You hear a lot more Neapolitan sixths and other >non-chordal stuff in "alternative" music, as well as nontraditional musical >forms. I'm not familiar with the term Neapoltian sixth. Could you please point out to me where it comes from? >and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will >allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your >music. Otherwise, sometimes knowing can lead to ignorance (without even percepting that process ). That's the other side of the medal I always try to take care of too. Sometimes I wish I could just hear the sounds that surround me all the time just like the first time ever. Cheers, Chris --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:29:47 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: QUITTING!!! I HOPE EVERY CLASSICAL MUSIC LOVER OUT THERE IS HAPPY NOW! YES, I'M QUITTING THE MAILING LIST! I HOPE YOUR ALL PROUD OF YOURSELVE'S!!!!!!! IF YOU HADN'T NOTICED, MY AIM OF JOINING THIS LIST WAS TO OBTAIN MIDI FILES ON ANY MODERN BANDS, BUT OBVIOUSLY NO-ONE HAS COMPLIED WITH THIS, BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A CLASSICAL LOVER!!! I hope you note that every single classical music lover who has written to me from this list has Upset me greatly, and I hope your proud of that too! Upsetting a 13 year old kid, well that's an achievment isn't it! Now whenever you write off for a job, you can write on your CV, or whatever you foreigners call it, I PROUDLY UPSET A 13 YEAR-OLD BOY, VIA EMAIL! Won't that look very good on your job application! The employers will sign you up straight away for a comment like that won't they! Well, any replies better come to my personal address! I've quit now! Oh, and I'll be re-joining aswell! I've got 5 email address's, all under seperate domain names, and all registered to various people (me or family, but can be altered with ease)!!! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:19:04 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Nathanael W Berry wrote: > > >> I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > >> classical music is dead. > >> I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel > >satisfied > >> with an art that doesn't evolue. > > I think you might just be out of the "correct circles". There are > new pieces in the classical genre being produced on a regular basis. Check > out symphony schedules, community concerts, and educational (college, > university, etc) venues. Like most media, you are likely to here "popular" > tunes quite often (just like "classic rock" stations). Major symphonic > institutions often do a concert or two per year of "new" music, not always > premiering, but quite recent works. > > If you have the chance, take a music appreciation course. A good > course should touch on lots of different types of music from classic, rock, > pop, jazz, folk, world (now *there* is a good LUMPING isnt it!), etc. > > Nate HEY LOOK EVERYONE!!! SOMEONE WHO HAS SPOKEN TO ME CIVALLY! TAKE AN EXAMPLE FROM HIS BOOK!!!! YES! THIS IS JUST ANOTHER MAIL FROM MY ACCOUNT LIKE YOU ALL KEEP STATING! WHY WOULD I WANT TO JUST WRITE EMAILS TO ANY PERSON THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW? WELL, I THOUGHT THAT YOU ALL MIGHT ACT LIKE ADULTS ABOUT IT, BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT!!! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:11:59 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321B4DA1.57B2@dial.pipex.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:55:45 +0000, Andrew Whittle wrote: >OK, I'll tell you now. I was brought up listening to 80's music. I love >all those synthesiser sounds! I just can't get away from computer >geneerated noises, so C??????? (I said I wouldn't say the word c?????? >anymore because everyone's had enough), just isn't in my vocabulary >(neither is spelling as you can see). This is it. It's not in your vocabulary. How can you talk about it? Nobody wanted to force you to hear/like C?????? music. --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:12:02 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Christian Roth Organization: Christian Roth - film + musik -- private site Subject: Re: Discussion... In-Reply-To: <321B4E11.6A10@dial.pipex.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:57:37 +0000, Andrew Whittle wrote: >There isn't really a COMBAT! It's just everyone who enjoy's c?????? is >cornering me on the list and off! I think that could have been a reaction to the ignorance that glanced thru your writings. Isn't it what you expected/intented? bye, Chris --- Christian Roth film + musik, Austria croth@pobox.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:13:20 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music mark simon wrote: > He sounds very intelligent to me. You ought to emulate him. The only reason > he's lonely is that he's the only one in his class with the sense and > motivation to develop his mind and talents to their fullest, rather than > sitting on his duff being an e-mail smart-ass. > > "There are more things in Heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in > your philosophy" > > If you can figure out what this means, or even who said it (hint: it was a > fellow countryman of yours) you'll be off to a good start. > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > Mark G. Simon > Music cataloger > Central Tech. Services > Cornell University Libraries > > mgs2@cornell.edu > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Yes well, who would you happen to be talking about in that email comment??? ADMIN: QUICK! THERE'S SOMEONE LAUNCHING A PERSONAL ATTACK! PERSECUTE HIM TOO!!! No, trust me, you don't know that boy! He is very strange and lonely and I have ABSALOUTELY NO intentions of being remotely like him. I am very intelligent thank you. I sit here on a computer acting so smug on the e-mail because that is my ambition, no, not to be an emailer, to go into the information super-highway, computers. I bet I know a lot more about computers than any of you lot on this list!!! GO ON, get out th latest copy of PCW and try and ask me a would-be-hard question about computers!!! I reckon that I could answer any of them you throw at me!!! GO, JUST TRY IT!!! -- Oh, and you better all email me at my email address if you want me to read reply's, I guess after this I won't be on this list!!! The Admin will think I'm launching ANOTHER personal attack, even though I haven't done so yet!!! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:15:21 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Re[2]: Classical Music In-Reply-To: from "Peter Mueller" at Aug 21, 96 11:38:00 am > Some examples would be the > trombonist George Lewis, the sax player Anthony Braxton, and the group the > Chicago Art Ensemble. Oh yes. I remember one of Braxton's REALLY twisted albums that featured him along with a full "big band". It was sort of like listening to what Stan Kenton's band would have done after a high concentration of nitrous oxide was pumped into the recording studio. It was LOVELY. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:16:00 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > > >Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > >> > >> >I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > >> >classical music is dead. > >> >I mean nobody composes for it any longer and our mind can not feel satisfied > >> >with an art that doesn't evolue. > >> > > >> >Even if former composers were geniously smart and talented. Pieces that > >> >remain today are just oldies. > >> > > >> >Eric, Paris > >> > > >> >Aris7@aol.com > >> > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>----- > >> > >> Eric, > >> > >> Such a wanton and brazen demonstration of one's ability to fit his "hat > >> rack" this far into his "exhaust" will go unchallenged on this list for > >> some time to come! You obviously have no idea of that which you speak. I > >> strongly recommend that you run right out today and acquire some classical > >> music appreciation CD's and begin to fill the obvious void you have on this > >> subject. If you start today, you may scratch the surface in several years > >> of concentrated effort. It will, trust me, take you a lifetime to really > >> garner an appreciation. > >> > >> Alan Bookmiller > > > >No, I'm sorry, I have to agree with Eric on this one! > > > >Classical music is well and truley DEAD in this generation, and > >generations to come. > > > >Later, > > > >Andy :o) > >-- > >Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com > >http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 > >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 > > > >"Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Andy, > > Who appointed you the voice of "your" generation? I believe there are > plenty of people in "your" generation that have a profound appreciation of > "classical" music. There are even some great performers coming along in > "your" generation. I don't suppose anyone who listens to music from such > groups as "Garbage" will be changed in his opinions, so go on and do your > thing, but don't speak for "your" generation, or for those to come - you, > from your narrow perspective, are not qualified. > > Alan Bookmiller DID I SAY I WAS??? DID I EVEN GIVE THE SLIGHTEST HINT THAT I WAS??? I DON'T THINK SO!!! I was pointing out merely, that people from MY class in school, would rather listen to Metallica, Cypress-Hill, Snoop Dog-Eat-Dog, Garbage, etc. rather than Handel, Bach, Scott Joplin, etc. Even the lonely boy who lives in books has both Oasis albums! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:06:31 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music william.b.fox wrote: > > Mark Simon said: > > I was brought up listening to and playing classical music. That's the music > > that turns me on the most. I often wonder how people can put up with this > > stuff that just goes THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP. It just goes to show you. Your > > tastes are formed early on. > > I grew up on Beatles, Stones, Peter, Paul, & Mary, Alan Sherman, Warner > Brothers cartoons (Carl Stalling) etc. When Disco killed Art Rock and > listening clubs in the 70's, I considered it to be merely THUMP THUMP > THUMP THUMP music. Compared to some of today's THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP > music, I consider Disco to be MUCH more intricate and "well composed." > > > mountains of new scores come past my desk every day. "Billions and billions" > > to quote one of Cornell's most famous professors. Much more than all the > > Actually, it was a Carl Sagan parody that is the source of that quote. > Carl never actually said it himself! Returning to music, I don't get > why orchestra, etc. don't include a greater amount of contemporary > composers in their repetoire. Do you have to be John Williams with the > Boston Pops at your disposal in order to be played? > > > You might want to search out an album called "Hoodoo Zephyr" by John Adams > > to get an idea of what one type of contemporary "classical" composer is > > doing today. It's electronic music too, which makes it especially worthy of > > mention on this list. > > Thanks for the tip. Keep it at the ready because I'll be in Freeville > for the Labor Day weekend. If you're around and I have spare time, (I > don't know what my family has planned) I'll give you a call to see if we > can hook up for a few hours. > > Andrew Whittle said: > > I will reveal one of my many secrets now, I am 13 years old from England > > >From the time that I was 13 to now, I've known few 13-year-olds who > would admit to liking "classical" music. Yet, most of our popular music > is based on the same 12 tone scale and harmonic vocabulary. Sure, there > have been extensions to that vocabulary, changes in temperament, > different scales explored, even a total abandonment of scale. But it > ALL points back to Baroque in one way or another. Every time you play > a G7 C chord progression at the end of a musical phrase on your guitar, > you've played the same PAC (Perfect Authentic Cadence) that Bach used. > Once you start learning what you have in common with "Classical" music, > appreciating it, if not liking it, is just around the corner. How many > "adults" out there hated classical music in their youth, yet have at > least a few classical music CDs in their collection? > > Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com > (Switching to william_b_fox@lucent.com so give it a try!) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Golly, I guess typomeningitis is communicable via email. I punched > (31/4)-4 on my calculator. Quick! Open an X-File! WELL WHO CARES WHAT MODERN MUSIC IS LIKE!!!!!!!!! WHY DON'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT HOW BAD/GOOD THAT IS INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT ALL THIS BOREING (YES I DID SAY CLASSICAL MUSIC WAS BOREING, WOULD YOU ALL LIKE TO ATTACK ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT TOO?), CLASSICAL MUSIC!!! LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING REMOTELY INTERESTING FOR ONCE!!!!!!! From, Andy - and yes, you can probably tell that I am EXTREMERLY annoyed with various members of EMUSIC-L and Admin Co.!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:29:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! In-Reply-To: <321B7FCB.745C@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 21, 96 09:29:47 pm > IF YOU HADN'T NOTICED, MY AIM OF JOINING THIS LIST WAS TO OBTAIN MIDI > FILES ON ANY MODERN BANDS, BUT OBVIOUSLY NO-ONE HAS COMPLIED WITH THIS, > BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A CLASSICAL LOVER!!! Well see, this is part of the problem. What we discuss here is "electronic music". We don't swap MIDI files - generally we try to help each other learn as much as possible - from whatever source - about the art of composition and performance. > Upsetting a 13 year old kid, well that's an achievment isn't it! Andy, you're reallly taking it a little hard, honestly. > Oh, and I'll be re-joining aswell! I've got 5 email address's, all under > seperate domain names, and all registered to various people (me or > family, but can be altered with ease)!!! And making veiled threats REALLY isn't a way to make friends. I feel at this point that I'm going to have to report this to your postmaster. I'm sorry, because I thought that you were interested in other people's ideas. "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND I STILL HATE IT AND YOU ALL STINK" is not interacting. Perhaps it's acting out. Y'know, normally I'm REALLY REALLY hard to tick off. You've managed. Congratulations. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:40:13 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321B7A57.47D7@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 21, 96 09:06:31 pm > WHY DON'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT HOW BAD/GOOD THAT IS INSTEAD OF ARGUING > ABOUT ALL THIS BOREING (YES I DID SAY CLASSICAL MUSIC WAS BOREING, WOULD > YOU ALL LIKE TO ATTACK ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT TOO?), CLASSICAL MUSIC!!! Well, the big problem we're *ALL* having (and I'll include me, too) is that this is all boiling down to matters of taste, which, since it is very subjective, can't be discussed in a reasonable manner. I think I speak for a lot of us in saying that we hoped we could give you a gift of enjoyment. We're sorry if it's not your color and size. > LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING REMOTELY INTERESTING FOR ONCE!!!!!!! That's a fine idea. What kind of music do you like and (the important part) what does it have to offer all of us stuffy old boring outdated poops? :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:46:04 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321b8020.32598117@unet.univie.ac.at> from "Christian Roth" at Aug 21, 96 09:55:02 pm > I'm not familiar with the term Neapoltian sixth. Could you please > point out to me where it comes from? > I think (and our resident music theorists will surely correct me when I blow it) that it's the A minor - F major 7 progression (for instance). In a major key it's something like B flat major to G minor 7. Effective, but perhaps overused. > Sometimes I wish I could just hear the sounds that surround me all the > time just like the first time ever. Mr. Roth, Mr. Cage. Mr. Cage, Mr. Roth. :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:24:34 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: Classical Music > I was pointing out merely, that people from MY class in school, would > rather listen to Metallica, Cypress-Hill, Snoop Dog-Eat-Dog, Garbage, > etc. rather than Handel, Bach, Scott Joplin, etc. > > Even the lonely boy who lives in books has both Oasis albums! One does not know how to appreciate an excellent wine when young. We'll talk in twenty-or-so years. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:47:51 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz Andy, I like Jazz to; however, I'll let you off the hook and take some heat. I'll admit there is some music that I really hate. I really dislike "warmly, googly, schmoopily" music. For example, John Tesh, Yanni, or whatever that Tim Kelly and Midivox were talking about. I hate music that is "uplifting and Healing" to the soul. In fact, I think that anyone who views music as "uplifting and Healing," probably doesn't know much about music. (this e-mail is not directed at Timothy Kelly. . . many people seem to share the same view; however, his wording was the most amusing to me) Now c'mon, keep listening. M. Ray McFerron http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/mmcferron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:58:32 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: Neopolitan 6th I'm sorry Joe, but I think you blew it. A Neopolitian 6th chord is basically a Major flat 2 chord. the 6th stands for the inversion. For example, the N6 in C Major is a D-flat major chord in frist inversion. It's considered "extended" harmony in most books. M. Ray Mcferron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:57:45 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mario Daniel Collantes Subject: Re: Classical Music > >> I think the main reason why we don't listen to classical music is because > >> classical music is dead. > I think you might just be out of the "correct circles". There are Where's the "correct circles" in the net?? Give me the answers. Thanks Mario Daniel Collantes mcollantes@impsat1.com.ar Buenos Aires, Argentina ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:32:04 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mario Daniel Collantes Subject: Re: Neopolitan 6th I considered an Neopolitan 6th chord in guitar an D Mayor with the bass in C . See the chord : e(1) ---2--- b(2) ---3--- g(3) ---2--- d(4) ---x---- a(5) ---3--- e(6) ----x--- I don't know if it is the true. PD : I attached an wav mono supercompressed. Mario Daniel Collantes mcollantes@impsat1.com.ar Buenos Aires, Argentina ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:59:19 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: On the "classical music" thread Well. I take a couple of days off to try to get a magazine out the door, come back, and what do I find in my "In" box? Heavens. I'm not precisely sure where this whole "classical is dead" thread started, but it's obvious where and how it grew into a real fight. I'd like to direct a few thoughts to both sides of the argument, namely the membership of EMUSIC-L and Andy Whittle. *** 1. Is everyone quite finished beating the tar out of Andy? Replies on the order of "Well, he started it" won't wash. Andy's only thirteen; the people who have been taking shots at him, by and large, are older and should know better. Yes, I know that the matter of his age didn't come up until the thick of the fray, but that's a flimsy excuse for a flamewar. I'm not as luminously perceptive as many on this list, but even I can usually spot postings by someone who's young and/or lacking in formal education, and cut them some slack until I learn more about where they're coming from. For shame, people. "Such-and-such a genre of music is dead" is such a classic troll...on rec.music.makers.anything-at-all, it would have vanished into the ozone. Escalating emotional arguments haven't done anything but produce MORE escalating emotional arguments, resulting in Joe losing his temper... a thankfully rare but highly dangerous circumstance I prefer not to encourage, considering who holds the plug on this mailing list. I can appreciate the effort that went into a lot of the replies, both in their level of eloquence and in some cases the fineness of their sarcasm. But really! Was it so very needful to demonstrate your ability to outmaneuver a teenager? I know that many of the replies to Andy's posts, especially early on, were attempts to shed some light on the parts of the issue he didn't know about. But I have to question the wisdom of responding to someone who won't listen by shouting louder and louder. I have come to expect better of the membership of this list, at least to the point of being able to drop a contentious issue when it accelerates past reasoned argument and into namecalling. We're better than this, people. *** 2. Andy, do you think you can calm down a second and stop screaming long enough to actually listen to someone on this list? (Namely me.) Let me introduce myself. I'm Mike Metlay, and I'm the co-moderator of this mailing list. Because of my writing and publishing commitments, my contributions to EMUSIC-L tend to go in bursts, as I find time to scan my mail. As a result, I got to read the whole dialogue about the death of classical music, from your initial post to the flames, threats, and counter-threats that ended it, all in one go. Now, I'll agree that you've had a very rough time of it. However, I also have to say that whether through ignorance or sheer stubbornness, you walked into it and asked for it, very loudly and repeatedly, and it's tough to blame the folks who kept giving it to you. Suppose one of us had written a post stating flat-out that Oasis was a waste of good CD lacquer and they should never have been signed to a major label or allowed to release their music. Ditto Lightning Seeds, Garbage, or whomever. I should think you'd be madder than hell at being insulted that way...someone saying the music you like is worthless implies in some sense that YOU are worthless. And that's exactly what you did to a lot of people who love and respect and enjoy classical music, the same way you love the artists you mentioned. Is it any wonder they fought back? Your troubles were compounded by the fact that your initial request was a misuse of EMUSIC-L. By and large, we don't exchange MIDI files here, and certainly we don't discuss modern indie rock bands very often. It's not what the list is for, and wishing that it was won't make it so. Did you take time to really learn what this list was for? If you had commented on your favorite musicians and talked about how they use electronics (if in fact they do; I admit to not knowing a lot about their music, which is why I can't express an opinion about them), your audience may have been more receptive. I say "may have been" because I can't force people to be interested in something they don't care about, and it's possible that such a posting, like many others, would simply have died due to lack of interest. It happens all the time, and you try again with a different post. One thing we try not to do, though, is to mistake fighting for dialogue, and that's a mistake both you and others are guilty of this time. Personally, I think you elaborated on your own experiences and tried to explain where you were coming from very well in the teeth of all the flak coming your way, but you blew it when you hit the caps lock key and started yelling that no one was going to make you change your mind. A lot of the people who wrote back to you were trying to at least point you toward understanding why they love this music, the same way you might loan an Oasis CD to someone who'd never heard of them and say, "Try this, I love it and I think you will too." You did them a disservice by turning up your nose and refusing to even consider the idea. That doesn't excuse their treating you so harshly, but it remains a fact. If you want to be treated with respect, you shouldn't come out treating others disrespectfully, and dissing a person's ideas is no more fair or polite than dissing the person himself. *** I've had my say, and I fully expect a box full of email calling me a sanctimonious windbag and, as recently stated by Pink Floyd, kindly suggesting that I go fuck myself. It won't be the first time, and it won't be the last, and it has nothing to do with the badge I wear that says, "CO-MODERATOR". But I do believe that we stand head and shoulders above many other music mailing lists because we speak about what others wish to discuss, listen respectfully, learn from one another, and let that which is unpleasant or non-apropos go its way in silence. We've all had our fun and blown off some steam in this little exchange, which is the first genuine flamewar we've had in recent memory. Now it's time to take a deep breath, tsk-tsk at ourselves as necesssary, and move on. (BTW, for what it's worth, I don't think that classical music is "dead," but I could make what I believe to be a very strong argument as to why ANDY is perfectly justified in thinking so. And I bet that in the process, I could tie it into the usual emusic genres under discussion in a very effective way. But why stir the pot again? :) *sigh* It's late and I have a prototype MiniDisc-based 4-track recorder to finish reviewing. Joe, if I'm out of line here, you know where and how to reach me, and what megatonnage is needed to punch through the bunker walls. Night, all. Play nice, okay? See y'all in a few days, mike -- "Let's assume you arrive at show day totally prepared, and everything goes exactly as planned. We can also assume that you'll never pay taxes or die." -- Bill Stunt, RECORDING Magazine, August 1996. ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:32:34 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Classical Music Yet again, we fail to learn to distinguish artistic merit from genre. I've heard a lot of really blah classical-style, orchestral music. ... But Fratres by Arvo Part is breathtakingly beautiful and vibrant. I've heard a lot of really blah dance music. ... But Spanners by Black Dog is really imaginative and full of imagery. Now can we stop being infantile by trying to pass judgement on the form rather than the content? [Oh: I'd guessed your age already, Andrew.] Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:14:56 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacky Schreiber Subject: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## I received this message from Peter Stone and wanted to share with you all... cheers Jacky Schreiber-------->jackysch@ven.net http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic Composer web page at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ Atonal Set Theory The Pitch-Class-Set (Atonal Set Theory) functions are based on the concept and terminology of Allen Forte's texts "The Structure of Atonal Music", whose pitch-class-set naming scheme is mostly and widely adopted by the theorists. "It seems to me as a logical step to include the Pitch-Class-Set functionality in an environment such as Symbolic Composer. The functions are build in such a way that they can be used for analytical or composition purposes", says the London-based author Janusz Podrazik. Pitch-Class-Set functions are included in the latest MRAC module. pc-set pc-set-cardinal pc-set-complement pc-set-invert pc-set-normal-order pc-set-prime-form pc-set-subcomplex pc-set-transpose pc-subset-power-set pc-subset-prime-form pc-subset-relation The MRAC update (10/08/96) includes as well some minor fixes, additions and a new functions. VRML 1.0 Generator Simulation is one of the fastest growing areas of the computer industry, and also one of the most exciting. Symbolic Composer is now fully equipped to let users take part of this development. Already, simulation has evolved beyond classic visual simulation into exciting new areas. Virtual engineering applications are using visualisation technology to create new concepts, virtual theme park attractions and interactive games. Now simulation will evolve even further, and bring the integration of 3-D and music a reality. VRML 1.0 Generator will introduce you to VRML, the language of cyberspace. It implements VRML 1.0 forms that let you use them alongside Symbolic Composer's algorithms to generate both architectural designs and other artistic objects - and music. For the first time in the history, music and architecture have now been integrated in a deeper level within a commercially available program. VRML is an acronym for the Virtual Reality Modeling Language. Using VRML you can craft your own three-dimensional virtual worlds. You can build your own virtual rooms, buildings, cities, mountains, or planets. You can fill your virtual worlds with virtual furniture, cars, people, spacecraft, or anything else you can dream up, and link the virtual worlds together in the Web, the place that William Gibson called consensual hallusination experienced by millions of people around the world. If you have ever wanted to take part of the cyberspace build-up process, this is now the optimum moment to start learning the machine language of this emerging world-wide new reality. Scandinavia Joins In "I just wanted to send you a mail about how happy I am with Symbolic Composer. So far it gives me everything I have been looking for and then some. Keep up the good work with this program. It is the best money I have spent on music software in a long time." Tor Lindberg, Norway "It must be the most brilliant piece of music-software ever written." Jesper Elen, Sweden. VRML 1.0 Generator Extensions Camera OrthographicCamera PerspectiveCamera Geometry Coordinate3 FontStyle Info LOD Material MaterialBinding Normal NormalBinding ShapeHints Texture2 Texture2Transform TextureCoordinate2 Group Group Separator Switch TransformSeparator WWWAnchor Instancing DEF USE Light DirectionalLight PointLight SpotLight Misc vrml-1.0-header with-vrml1-output WWWInline Shape AsciiText Cone Cube Cylinder IndexedFaceSet IndexedLineSet PointSet Sphere Transform MatrixTransform Rotation Scale Transform Translation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:22:30 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread > >Trust me, I HAVE been flamed by the users of this list, and I am >beginning to get a little upset and annoyed! Well I hope you learn something from this experience. You might consider that when you step on somebody's toes they tend to yell and scream at you for doing it. Likewise, when you make statements like "such-and-such sux" you can be sure you'll hear from those who like such-and-such. That's just the way life is. Don't make "such-and-such sux" statements unless you're prepared to accept the consequences. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Ever heard that one? You might try looking it up. The same book that comes from has a few other words of wisdom you might find useful. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:27:48 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathanael W Berry Subject: Re: Classical Music >In my class in school I know just one person who listens to classical >music! ... he would rather be there >with his parents than with his friends at a movie! He is a very strange >boy!... >I HAVE NO INTENTION OF BEING LIKE HIM!!! HE IS A VERY VERY LONELY >PERSON!!! > Will classical music do this to someone? I have classical piano training. I admit that I have passed up many a movie (and TV for that matter), but I dont think it has anything to do with an appreciation of classical music. I have on occasion skipped out of a rugby party (post game) to catch a concert - and likewise have bolted from a concert to make a hockey game (playing ...except for music I'm not that much of a "watcher/listener"). I've cleared hay from the field in double time to make an evening opera (brought toothpicks to help hold my eyelids up:). My "music friends" call me a frustrated jock, my "jock friends" call me a frustrated musician, and my kids call me dad. When my wife calls I jump ;-) I have a modest home studio which doubles as my home office. I also have a wood working shop (love tools big 'n small - grew up on a farm), and a model railroad (empire?) in my basement. I consider myself a do-it-yourselfer, though I often do it with friends 'n family. If classical music has limited my interests I can only be thankful because there are not enough hours in the day, days in the week, etc. for me to do everything I would like to do! It's all what wiggles your shorts. If you've approached a subject with an open mind and discovered it really doesn't do anything for you - that's ok, but dont cut yourself short on life experiences. (stepping down...) Nate ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Neapolitan (explanation of basic theory) A > >I'm not familiar with the term Neapoltian sixth. Could you please >point out to me where it comes from? From Naples, of course (har har) Actually the term is "Neapolitan 6" (cardinal rather than ordinal number. this is actually a very big distinction) The number 6 refers to a chord in first inversion. What the heck is first inversion? Imagine you have an F major chord: F - A - C. Usually you'll expect the bass to be playing the F. But suppose it plays the A instead. That's called 1st inversion (2nd inversion would be if the bass plays the C). For reasons too complicated to go into, music theory has decreed that the number 6 is the standard abbreviation to indicate a 1st inversion chord. A Neapolitan chord is something that generally occurs in a minor key. It is a chord whose root is a half step above the tonic of the key. Let's say you're in E minor. If you're in that key and you play an F major chord, that's a Neapolitan chord. And furthermore, if you have the bass play the A of that chord it is a Neapolitan 6 chord. Now if you're in E minor and you play a chord consisting of F - A - C - D, you could call it a "Neapolitan 6th" chord, but that's a different thing and not nearly as common as the Neapolitan 6. > >>and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will >>allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your >>music. > >Otherwise, sometimes knowing can lead to ignorance (without even >percepting that process ). That's the other side of the medal I >always try to take care of too. >Sometimes I wish I could just hear the sounds that surround me all the >time just like the first time ever. > >Cheers, >Chris >--- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:15:42 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Neopolitan 6th In-Reply-To: <199608212331.CAA03814@relay1.impsat1.com>; from "Mario Daniel Collantes" at Aug 22, 96 2:32 am These are the graceful words of Mario Daniel Collantes: ->I considered an Neopolitan 6th chord in guitar an D Mayor with the bass in ->C . See the chord : -> ->e(1) ---2--- ->b(2) ---3--- ->g(3) ---2--- ->d(4) ---x---- ->a(5) ---3--- ->e(6) ----x--- -> ->I don't know if it is the true. Sorry, the chord you describe couldn't be a Neapolitan chord. a *D Major* chord with a *C* in the bass could be a V2 chord in the key of G. A Neapolitan chord must be based on a specific key. The only way to turn your *D Major* chord into a Neapolitan chord would be to make the key C#, and put an F# in the bass: like this, for example... e(1) ---x--- b(2) ---3--- g(3) ---2--- d(4) ---O--- a(5) ---x--- e(6) ---2--- That F# in the bass (the 3rd of the chord) is what makes this a "6" chord, and the D chord being 1/2 step higher than the key (C#) is what makes it a "Neapolitan" chord. Enjoy, -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:49:48 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fredrik Montelius Organization: Students Subject: Re: Arvo Part Scott Purman wrote: > > Paulo Mouat ,Internet - nile.com writes: > > What about Arvo Part? He is surely more 'classical' than Stockhausen. > And is younger too. > > I have "Te Deum" and I love it, but that's all I've heard, what other > compositions might you recommend? Te deum is rather fierce. There are more beautiful pieces. There's Stabat Mater on the album "Arbos" ECM 1325; Festina lente and Sarah was 90 years old on "Miserere" ECM 1430; Fratres and Tabula Rasa on "Tabula Rasa" ECM 1275; Passio (long and in a way a demanding piece, but beautiful) on "Passio" (sole piece on the album) ECM 1370; and the latest album out, also on ECM, is "Litany" ECM 1592, but Litany is not one of the better discs, I think. Try the others first. Other record companies market Part, but ECM has always done a good job doing it. F. Montelius. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:44:49 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Neopolitan 6th In-Reply-To: <960821225831_462531562@emout18.mail.aol.com> from "M. Ray McFerron" at Aug 21, 96 10:58:32 pm > > I'm sorry Joe, but I think you blew it. A Neopolitian 6th chord is basically > a Major flat 2 chord. the 6th stands for the inversion. For example, the N6 > in C Major is a D-flat major chord in frist inversion. It's considered > "extended" harmony in most books. > M. Ray Mcferron > Thought so. Oh well. Time to go over the theory books again. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:57:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz In-Reply-To: <960821224745_462521598@emout09.mail.aol.com> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, M. Ray McFerron wrote: > admit there is some music that I really hate. I really dislike "warmly, > googly, schmoopily" music. For example, John Tesh, Yanni, or whatever that I can't agree more. The only thing worse than John Tesh's music is hearing John Tesh blab during the Olympics. Oh wait, I think maybe I got that backwards. :) John Tesh is to music as Wonder bread is to cuisine. -- Kirk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:58:11 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: On the "classical music" thread In-Reply-To: <199608220759.AAA23263@netcom23.netcom.com> from "Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City" at Aug 22, 96 00:59:19 am > I know that many of the replies to Andy's posts, especially early on, > were attempts to shed some light on the parts of the issue he didn't > know about. But I have to question the wisdom of responding to someone > who won't listen by shouting louder and louder. I have come to expect > better of the membership of this list, at least to the point of being > able to drop a contentious issue when it accelerates past reasoned > argument and into namecalling. We're better than this, people. Thanks, Mike. This was the post I was planning to write today .. I was simply too beat last night to put the proper thought into it. I'm forwarding a copy to Andy, if you haven't already. > (BTW, for what it's worth, I don't think that classical music is > "dead," but I could make what I believe to be a very strong argument > as to why ANDY is perfectly justified in thinking so. And I bet that > in the process, I could tie it into the usual emusic genres under > discussion in a very effective way. But why stir the pot again? :) I don't think it's dead yet, but the popular purveyors seem to be trying to kill it. When's the last time you heard a challenging piece of orchestral music coming out of the radio before 9 PM? Local radio stations will play mostly Baroque, Classical, and a few scattered modern pieces that aren't too difficult. Just once, I'd like to turn on the radio and hear that a Stockhausen or Pierre Henry festival was coming up. I would LOVE to be wrong. Again. :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:57:43 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Classical Music Bob Falesch, Thanks for the Mahler symphony tip. I wrote: > From the time that I was 13 to now, I've known few 13-year-olds who > would admit to liking "classical" music. Yet, most of our popular music > is based on the same 12 tone scale and harmonic vocabulary. Sure, there > have been extensions to that vocabulary, changes in temperament, > different scales explored, even a total abandonment of scale. But it > ALL points back to Baroque in one way or another. Every time you play > a G7 C chord progression at the end of a musical phrase on your guitar, > you've played the same PAC (Perfect Authentic Cadence) that Bach used. > Once you start learning what you have in common with "Classical" music, > appreciating it, if not liking it, is just around the corner. How many > "adults" out there hated classical music in their youth, yet have at > least a few classical music CDs in their collection? Andy responded: > WELL WHO CARES WHAT MODERN MUSIC IS LIKE!!!!!!!!! > WHY DON'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT HOW BAD/GOOD THAT IS INSTEAD OF ARGUING > ABOUT ALL THIS BOREING ... > ... CLASSICAL MUSIC!!! > LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING REMOTELY INTERESTING FOR ONCE!!!!!!! [ To make the above more readable, I removed your side comment, shown here to attempt to show that your response is not being taken out of context. > (YES I DID SAY CLASSICAL MUSIC WAS BOREING, WOULD > YOU ALL LIKE TO ATTACK ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT TOO?) ] Am I nuts, or was that response, in Nomad's words, a non-sequetor? (Since Mark quoted Shakespeare, I thought I'd allude to Star Trek which often alluded to Shakespeare and other classics. Oops! There's that C word again!!) Andy, I'm sorry if I made you angry. But shouting your responses won't help you make your case. I was trying to make the case that you have more in common with "classical" music than what I perceive you to believe. The music theory lesson was thrown in for free. Knowing music theory can't hurt your music enjoyment or your ability to make music. But it could help with both. In college, I found music theory very interesting. Of course, they used "classical" music examples to illustrate the concepts which increased my appreciation for that type of music. Andy: > I hope you note that every single classical music lover who has written > to me from this list has Upset me greatly, and I hope your proud of that > too! Upsetting a 13 year old kid, well that's an achievment isn't it! > Now whenever you write off for a job, you can write on your CV, or > whatever you foreigners call it, I PROUDLY UPSET A 13 YEAR-OLD BOY, VIA > EMAIL! Won't that look very good on your job application! The employers > will sign you up straight away for a comment like that won't they! CV works fine on this end of the pond, though I tend to think that "resumé" is more commonly used. Early pioneers in emusic might confuse it for "Control Voltage" if context is vague. You confuse "your" (possession) with "you're" (contraction of "you are"). These are homonyms, words that sound alike but have different meanings. Example: "I hope your proud of that" should have used you're, not your. Out of curiosity, do you consider ME a classical lover? And do you think that's a good or bad thing to be? As for upsetting a 13 year old kid, I don't think that was anyone's intention. It just seems to be done without much effort in some cases, not much of an achievment, as you pointed out. Something easily accomplished by anybody/everybody never impresses potential employers. ;-) (i.e. take what I say with however many grains of salt as you deem are required!) Bill Fox wbf@aloft.att.com (Switching to william_b_fox@lucent.com so give it a try!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We can see the future and it won't be what it used to be. -- Bob Allen, CEO - AT&T ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:19:17 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Music For Film...one more time In the midst of Andrew's upbringing, I sent two postings that were either generally ignored or lost in the fray. So, I'll try one more time. I've been asked to write for an article, "Music For Film," in "Indie Magazine," an online magazine dedicated to the subject of independant film making. As I stated before, last fall when I was out trying to market some of my "electronic" music to independent film producers I met Michael Carr who is a film maker and creator of "Indie Magazine." At the time I had a lot of interest from many different producers, but found that many were not willing to use music that was strictly produced through electronic means, although they personally liked what they heard. I would be interested in knowing any thoughts that the list members have concerning topics for this article. Also, I would like to know if anyone would be interested in contributing to an article or two. This may be an opportunity for those of us who are trying to write for film to get our names and services out to the right folks and make some contacts. So please let me know via the list or thru private email. Thanks everyone. Alan Bookmiller abook@proxima.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:17:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: Neopolitan 6th Comments: To: mcollantes@IMPSAT1.COM.AR I considered an Neopolitan 6th chord in guitar an D Mayor with the bass in C . See the chord : e(1) ---2--- b(2) ---3--- g(3) ---2--- d(4) ---x---- a(5) ---3--- e(6) ----x--- I don't know if it is the true. Nope. In C major it would be a D flat chord with the bass note being the F. (In other words it is the flat II) It is usually used as a chord that "prepares" the dominant, so you might see (hear) it in a progression such as: iv, bII6, V7, I (in C major that translates into: f minor, D flat major(with the f in the bass), G major seven, C major. As you can see. it is a chromatic progression, one that is quite commonly used in 19th century music, although you do find it in chromatic passages in baroque music, passage where dramatic emotional effects are desired. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: Is there anybody out there? This list does seem to have lost something. I banished myself from the list a few months ago after the rukus over ... well let's not start that again! -rob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:30:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: Neapolitan (explanation of basic theory) Comments: To: mgs2@CORNELL.EDU Now if you're in E minor and you play a chord consisting of F - A - C - D, you could call it a "Neapolitan 6th" chord, but that's a different thing and not nearly as common as the Neapolitan 6. Gee _ I would call that a neopolitan with an added six, or maybe a tritone substitution for the dominant a la Ellington, or maybe a neopolitan with added cheese :-). > >>and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will >>allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your >>music. > >Otherwise, sometimes knowing can lead to ignorance (without even >percepting that process ). That's the other side of the medal I >always try to take care of too. >Sometimes I wish I could just hear the sounds that surround me all the >time just like the first time ever. > >Cheers, >Chris >--- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from atlanta.american.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id JAA23696 sendmail 8.6. >Received: from atlanta (atlanta.american.edu [147.9.1.6]) by atlanta.american.e >Received: from AMERICAN.EDU by AMERICAN.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with >Received: from jericho.american.edu (jericho.american.edu [147.9.1.8]) by >Received: (from daemon@localhost) by jericho.american.edu (8.6.13/8.6.12) id >Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU >Received: from MARK ([128.253.121.33]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu >X-Sender: mgs2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16), Cornell Modified >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plai >Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960822094859.243 >Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:42:34 >Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List >Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon >Subject: Neapolitan (explanation of basic theory) >To: Multiple re ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:34:05 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathanael W Berry Subject: Re: Classical Music ... >> We seem to overlook composers like: Russell Pinkston, Dominic Argento, John >> Corigliano, Donald Grantham, James Mobberley, Jacob Druckman, Donald Erb, >> Charles Argersinger, etc. . . >> >> We primarily think of Philip Glass, Riley, Adams, Reich, Stravinsky, or >> Schoenberg when we think about "serious" music How could a list of "serious" composers be constructed without the inclusion of the infamous P D Q Bach ? ;-) Nate ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:52:11 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## Jacky Schreiber ,Internet - nile.com writes: Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic Composer web page at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ "I just wanted to send you a mail about how happy I am with Symbolic Composer. So far it gives me everything I have been looking for and then some. Keep up the good work with this program. It is the best money I have spent on music software in a long time." Tor Lindberg, Norway "It must be the most brilliant piece of music-software ever written." Jesper Elen, Sweden. So, how much $$$ is Symbolic Composer and where does one purchase it? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:36:50 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Doug Michael Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! In-Reply-To: <199608212229.SAA26049@clark.net> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, Joe McMahon wrote: > And making veiled threats REALLY isn't a way to make friends. I feel at this > point that I'm going to have to report this to your postmaster. I'm sorry, > because I thought that you were interested in other people's ideas. > "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND I STILL HATE IT AND YOU ALL STINK" is not > interacting. Perhaps it's acting out. > > Y'know, normally I'm REALLY REALLY hard to tick off. You've managed. > Congratulations. > --- Joe M. Hello, Thank you Joe - Very well said. I agree 100% Doug Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:21:11 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Re[2]: Neopolitan 6th In-Reply-To: from "Peter Mueller" at Aug 22, 96 08:17:00 am > Nope. In C major it would be a D flat chord with the bass note being > the F. (In other words it is the flat II) It is usually used as a > chord that "prepares" the dominant, so you might see (hear) it in a > progression such as: iv, bII6, V7, I (in C major that translates into: > f minor, D flat major(with the f in the bass), G major seven, C major. > As you can see. it is a chromatic progression, one that is quite > commonly used in 19th century music, although you do find it in > chromatic passages in baroque music, passage where dramatic emotional > effects are desired. Thanks. I've used similar things, but not exactly that. Will try it out. Although given my current obsesion with gamelan and degung, it may be a while. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:25:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music ... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960822133414.5b3724ba@popd.netcruiser> from "Nathanael W Berry" at Aug 22, 96 10:34:05 am > How could a list of "serious" composers be constructed without the > inclusion of the infamous P D Q Bach ? ;-) > You betcha. But PDQ is even MORE fun if you've a basic smattering of classics under your belt, because you then realize what's being outright stolen. I should have mentioned "A Portrait of PDQ Bach", especially "Eine Kleine Nichtsmusik". A triumph of musical punsterism, and a Reader's Digest Condensed Guide to a *LOT* of classics. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:46:52 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Doug Wellington Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## Previously: >Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and >VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic >Composer web page at: > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ Yeah, right, well... Damn web page is formatted for Netscrape... I don't know about you, but *I* ain't gonna get Netscrape just to access that page... (And besides, they don't make it for the machine I've got here at work anyway!) Anybody have any other ideas about how to get info on Symbolic Composer if you don't have (or want!) that @#$^#^@#%# Navigator thingie? How many other people are working on atonal stuff (Set theory, combinatoriality, etc)? I have been working on my own manipulation software written in Python... (Or does Python make this a "gear head" discussion?) ;-) -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"...? FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org... Just say NO to Netscape Navigator! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:06:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: New Spin on Re: Classical Music (I'm sending this again because our server sent me a garbled message that could be interpreted as a non-delivery notification. Of course, even though I think this is a worthy spin to the "Classical music" discussion, I'm not overlooking the possibility that no one else did) ---------------------------------------- Let's all recall for a minute that when Mozart (one of many examples) was writing, no one really understood him, and he was roundly criticized for being so unlike the accepted music of the day. Very much the same way that some criticize modern music for not fitting into the established paradigms. Remember -- every new artistic movement is a reaction to the status quo, even his. Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no indication of my personal preferences, could it be: Chick Corea? Alanis Morisette? Snoop Doggy Dog? Clint Black? Elvis Costello? David Bowie? If you're laughing at some of these, remember, they laughed at Wolfgang, too. Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:08:09 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: FW: Re[2]: Neopolitan 6th Perhaps this is so obvious as to have already been considered, but the chord in question is a rudimentary and often used substitution in jazz. In this case, D/C (interpreted as a d major chord over a c bass) outlines a C13#11 (the 11 usually being raised a half-step on major extensions so as not to clash with the 3rd). A Lydian mode is the scale of choice for improvization purposes. Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ---------- From: mail@ih (Peter Mueller) {Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU} To: mail@ih (Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L) {EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU}; nm1 Subject: Re[2]: Neopolitan 6th Date: Thursday, August 22, 1996 12:17PM Priority: Low I considered an Neopolitan 6th chord in guitar an D Mayor with the bass in C . See the chord : e(1) ---2--- b(2) ---3--- g(3) ---2--- d(4) ---x---- a(5) ---3--- e(6) ----x--- I don't know if it is the true. Nope. In C major it would be a D flat chord with the bass note being the F. (In other words it is the flat II) It is usually used as a chord that "prepares" the dominant, so you might see (hear) it in a progression such as: iv, bII6, V7, I (in C major that translates into: f minor, D flat major(with the f in the bass), G major seven, C major. As you can see. it is a chromatic progression, one that is quite commonly used in 19th century music, although you do find it in chromatic passages in baroque music, passage where dramatic emotional effects are desired. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:54:10 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: New subject - no aesthetic No, this is not an attack against any style of music, it is simply a question concerning electronic music. I know that there is a C-Sound Listserv, but I thought I would post this question to this group in case you are not on the C-Sound list and have the answer. I'm having trounble getting Gen01 to work with AIFF files with the latest version of C-sound. I am referencing a sound in the score file, not in the .orc file. Any discussion on C-sound would be very beneficial to me. M. Ray McFerron Also, anybody who has .orc and .sco files to share would be welcome to do so. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:56:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music Comments: To: "Neil_McQ>#_" Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no indication of my personal preferences, could it be: Chick Corea? Alanis Morisette? Snoop Doggy Dog? Clint Black? Elvis Costello? David Bowie? How about: David Dunn Michael Finnessey Ikue Mori Richard Hell Paul Lansky Robert Erikson Pauline Oliveros Matyas Seiber Lou Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:43:26 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Woody Bosco Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz Are you two fellows musicians? Your statements are very unworthy, crass, and crude to say the least. Furthermore, I do not think you even understand the New Age genre of music. If you did, you wouldn't make such idiotic statements. The two men you mention are expertise in what they do as well as capable of surrounding themselves with the best conductors, players, etc. that money can buy. There's nothing googily or schmoopily about the charts they write, or the solos that are taken. Concert At Redrocks googy? Schmoopy? Puleeeeeze! Get real. WNB -------------------------------------------- >On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, M. Ray McFerron wrote: > >> admit there is some music that I really hate. I really dislike "warmly, >> googly, schmoopily" music. For example, John Tesh, Yanni, or whatever that > >I can't agree more. The only thing worse than John Tesh's music is >hearing John Tesh blab during the Olympics. Oh wait, I think maybe I got >that backwards. :) John Tesh is to music as Wonder bread is to cuisine. > >-- Kirk > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:51:06 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacky Schreiber Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## Jacky Schreiber ,Internet - nile.com writes: Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic Composer web page at: http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ "I just wanted to send you a mail about how happy I am with Symbolic Composer. So far it gives me everything I have been looking for and then some. Keep up the good work with this program. It is the best money I have spent on music software in a long time." Tor Lindberg, Norway "It must be the most brilliant piece of music-software ever written." Jesper Elen, Sweden. So, how much $$$ is Symbolic Composer and where does one purchase it? ================================ I suggest for everyone interested contact Peter Stone directly : psto@xs4all.nl best Jacky Schreiber-------->jackysch@ven.net http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1094 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:52:25 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacky Schreiber Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## Previously: >Symbolic Composer Pro was recently extended by Atonal Set Theory and >VRML 1.0 Generator. The extensions can be downloaded in the Symbolic >Composer web page at: > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~psto/ Yeah, right, well... Damn web page is formatted for Netscrape... I don't know about you, but *I* ain't gonna get Netscrape just to access that page... (And besides, they don't make it for the machine I've got here at work anyway!) Anybody have any other ideas about how to get info on Symbolic Composer if you don't have (or want!) that @#$^#^@#%# Navigator thingie? How many other people are working on atonal stuff (Set theory, combinatoriality, etc)? I have been working on my own manipulation software written in Python... (Or does Python make this a "gear head" discussion?) ;-) -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"...? FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org... Just say NO to Netscape Navigator! ======================================================================= And again... for all enquiries about Symbolic Composer please contact Peter Stone: psto@xs4all.nl and for those interested in Symbolic Composer for windowed PC's also contact Peter Stone: psto@xs4all.nl best Jacky Schreiber-------->jackysch@ven.net http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1094 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:26:29 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## I for one would like to know more about Doug Wellington's manipulation software. Although I don't normally compose using set classes or serial techniques, I am interested in brain exercises and music software of this sort. M. Ray Mcferron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:38:24 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Ray McFerron" Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz I am afraid that WNB misunderstood my statement. I agree that these composers (for a lack of a better term) are Good at what they do. Their music simply does not contain the characteristics that I find exciting in music. Their sense of beauty differs from my idea of beauty. As far as I know (maybe just an opinion), expensive musicians, conductors, and concerts for the masses does NOT define the integrity of a piece of music. I can assure you that I am not speaking due to ignorance of new age music. I comprehend the technology involved from the stage to the studio, I know the framework from which these pieces are built, and most importantly, I have listened to these pieces and judged them according to MY standards. Not to be crass, but I could care less whether or not YOU like this style of music. I just offer MY judgement of the "schmoopy" music. M. Ray McFerron http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/mmcferron P.S. I would suggest that YOU broaden YOUR listening habits ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:11:25 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ron Hillman Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz >Are you two fellows musicians? Your statements are very unworthy, crass, >and crude to say the least. > >There's nothing googily or schmoopily about the charts they write, or the >solos that are taken. > >Concert At Redrocks googy? Schmoopy? > >Puleeeeeze! Get real. > >WNB > John Tesh is to music as Wonder bread is to cuisine. >> >>-- Kirk >> > >I agree Ron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:23:40 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: More on Pierre Henry Paulo Mouat wrote: > If you are into Pierre Schaeffer also, then you'll be glad to know that > his complete works are available on a special edition with several CD's > (I can't recall how many, 4? 8?) with a very interesting booklet, > detailing the evolution of Musique Concrete--it sure must, because > Schaeffer's pieces on those CD's are nothing but that. > > The label was either Accord or Adda, I can't remember precisely. It > wasn't very expensive, about US$100 at local prices, but at the time > I couldn't afford it. Never saw it again. Funny you mentioned that boxed set. I work in a bookstore and I was looking for books on the history of musique concrete, and I saw that a book distributor actually has that package in stock! I'm gonna get that as soon as I have some free money. Thanks. Francis. BTW : That european distributor is called Phonurgia Nova. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:41:08 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: Classical Music harry haecker wrote: > Like it or not, "classical" music (BTW, I've always hated that term) tends to be > elitist: more often than not, it is listened to and played by college-educated > people who sit in concert halls staring at the performer(s) and/or the tape > machine; people who can afford music lessons and instrument; and/or afford the > recordings and electronic playback machines. I was schooled in this area and > have alternately embraced and eschewed the institution. > > "Popular" [dance] music (whether or not it is truly popular) requires none of > these trappings: if you have the $$ to buy a beer at the local dance club (or > friends to mooch off of), you can zone out without having to think for _many_ > hours. That's the deal with "classical" music: it requires extended > concentration for a more full listening experience. Good or bad, dance music > requires nothing of you-- least of all, extended, focused, thought. Both have > their places, and taken together DO NOT encompass even .01% of what is out > there; that is, I do not consider it a dichotomous situation. Disagree. Preconceptions! Music never HAS to be listened to in SUCH or SUCH a way. If you want to study it, fine. But you can do that with any type of music. Research in composition can be done either in dance (whatever that type encompasses) or classical (whatever that encompasses). I have 'dance' albums that could compete with any Glass or Reich album. Don't get me wrong, this is no 'hate' message. I agree that alot of classical music is made with alot of thought put on the esthetics, and form. But so can dance music. Don't base your judgement on only what you have heard. Please. The reason why I even got into some classical music is because of the links to what I listen to today. (That is, alot of club oriented stuff.) That was my 25 cents worth. Francis. BTW : I don't buy beer and zone out for hours in clubs. I just share my love for music and good times with hundreds of other people once or twice a week. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:01:59 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: Pierre Henry Nikki Halpern wrote: > OK. This is the essential stuff: > Pierre Schaeffer: L'oeuvre Musicale, INA-GRM, 1990. > This is a 4-CD set which includes all the Schaeffer-Henry stuff. > Pierre Henry des Annees Cinquante: Mantra Records 032, 1991. > All his works 1950-59. Fantastic. 2 CD's, I think. > Hope this helps. It does! Thanks a million! Francis. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:03:42 +0000 Reply-To: gosselin@odyssee.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Francis Gosselin Subject: Re: Wrong email address... POSTMASTER Scott Purman wrote: > > Andrew Whittle ,Internet - nile.com writes: > Did everyone here recieve a POSTMASTER mail four times about an unknown > user? > > Yes, every time I send a post to this group I get an "undeliverable" mail > from the POSTMASTER (no one at this address) - that's why I've sent posts twice > - because I thought they weren't getting through - I'll just ignore them. I get the same thing. Anyone has any clue to why this happens?? Francis. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:58:16 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "SABIN CORNELIU BURAGA (busaco@linux.infoiasi.ro)" Subject: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music In-Reply-To: Thank you for the very interesting thoughts about symphonic music and other things! Now, I wish to send you a little essay. Forget my mistakes, please. My English isn't too good... Many electronic works include the ancient sources of classical music. For example, Jean Michel Jarre's "Rendez-vous" sounds very bachian, in the albums of Vangelis ( such as "Opera Sauvage", "1492-Conquest of Paradise", "Heaven and Hell", "Private Collection" and others ) we descover many elements from Mozart, Chopin, Vivaldi, preclassical composers, Isao Tomita have the multiple electronic versions of the important symphonic materpieces written by Bach, Wagner, Grieg, Dinicu, Stravinsky, Debussy, Mussorgsky etc. Of course, in the rock music ( especially psychodelic and progressive music ) there are many examples of symphonic-electronic-rock elements: "Atom Heart Mother", "The Wall", "The Final Cut" by Pink Floyd, "Tubular Bells" by Mike Oldfield, the works of Manfred Mann, Rick Wakeman, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Enya, "Their Satanic Majesties Request" by Rolling Stones, Jon Anderson's "Olias of Sunhillow". On the other hand, the pure symphonic music sounds, sometimes, very modern! Other examples: The Toccata and Fugue in d minor by J.S.Bach, the Vivaldi's concerti grossi or some works of Beethoven. Of course, the XIX-th and XX-th century's composers are interesting from this point of view: Liszt, Verdi, Ravel, Respighi, Prokofiev, Enescu, Carl Orff... In the 90's, there are few new groups and new composers who use the roots of the classical music in the explicit way. In the present we assist at a decadence, a descendent curve of the musical ideas, although the instruments become more powerful, more complex. The new currents such as tehno, rave,... are steril and comercial! I prefer the old composers of the electronic music: Vangelis, J.M.Jarre, Kitaro, Tomita, Spanoudakis, Klaus Schulze. I agree, in the present there are some interesting composers ( Michel Pepe, Indra or Esoteric ) and groups ( such as Babylon Zoo or Portishead, e.g. ), but the future is ambiguous. Probable, the future music will be included into the other arts: the global virtual multi-media cibernetic art! Another theme of discussion: the electronic music can be religious? I hope you write me about this! Sabin e-mail: busaco@linux.infoiasi.ro busaco@dragon.uaic.ro www: http://linux.infoiasi.ro/~busaco ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:41:58 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Nick Rothwell wrote: > > Yet again, we fail to learn to distinguish artistic merit from genre. > > I've heard a lot of really blah classical-style, orchestral music. > > ... But Fratres by Arvo Part is breathtakingly beautiful and vibrant. > > I've heard a lot of really blah dance music. > > ... But Spanners by Black Dog is really imaginative and full of imagery. > > Now can we stop being infantile by trying to pass judgement on the form > rather than the content? > > [Oh: I'd guessed your age already, Andrew.] > > Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects > http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control > > years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again You only managed to roughly guess my age, because of the way I expressed myself after being attacked! Now this is my last posting to this list! BYE! Andy :( -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:00:41 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Paulo Mouat wrote: > > > I was pointing out merely, that people from MY class in school, would > > rather listen to Metallica, Cypress-Hill, Snoop Dog-Eat-Dog, Garbage, > > etc. rather than Handel, Bach, Scott Joplin, etc. > > > > Even the lonely boy who lives in books has both Oasis albums! > > One does not know how to appreciate an excellent wine when young. > We'll talk in twenty-or-so years. > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| GOOD! Keep my email address in your book! I don't drink alchahol! What a shame - oh, and it's bad for you too! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:50:39 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread mark simon wrote: > > > > >Trust me, I HAVE been flamed by the users of this list, and I am > >beginning to get a little upset and annoyed! > > Well I hope you learn something from this experience. You might consider > that when you step on somebody's toes they tend to yell and scream at you > for doing it. Likewise, when you make statements like "such-and-such sux" > you can be sure you'll hear from those who like such-and-such. That's just > the way life is. Don't make "such-and-such sux" statements unless you're > prepared to accept the consequences. > > "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." > > Ever heard that one? You might try looking it up. The same book that comes > from has a few other words of wisdom you might find useful. > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > Mark G. Simon > Music cataloger > Central Tech. Services > Cornell University Libraries > > mgs2@cornell.edu > > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Excuse me... I think someone's been posting messages that were supposedly from me, but wearn't! Like I said, I know about computers, and I know it's very easy to write an email and signaturize it as someone else! I've done it myself! I think someone has been writing to this list claiming to be me, but actually were trying to give me a bad rep. Since it was posted as me, I won't recieve the mail, and so I can't tell if any are being written! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:58:59 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: On the "classical music" thread Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City wrote: > > Well. I take a couple of days off to try to get a magazine out the door, > come back, and what do I find in my "In" box? Heavens. > > I'm not precisely sure where this whole "classical is dead" thread > started, but it's obvious where and how it grew into a real fight. > I'd like to direct a few thoughts to both sides of the argument, > namely the membership of EMUSIC-L and Andy Whittle. > > *** > > 1. Is everyone quite finished beating the tar out of Andy? > > Replies on the order of "Well, he started it" won't wash. Andy's only > thirteen; the people who have been taking shots at him, by and large, > are older and should know better. Yes, I know that the matter of his > age didn't come up until the thick of the fray, but that's a flimsy > excuse for a flamewar. I'm not as luminously perceptive as many on > this list, but even I can usually spot postings by someone who's young > and/or lacking in formal education, and cut them some slack until I > learn more about where they're coming from. > > For shame, people. "Such-and-such a genre of music is dead" is such a > classic troll...on rec.music.makers.anything-at-all, it would have > vanished into the ozone. Escalating emotional arguments haven't done > anything but produce MORE escalating emotional arguments, resulting in > Joe losing his temper... a thankfully rare but highly dangerous > circumstance I prefer not to encourage, considering who holds the plug > on this mailing list. > > I can appreciate the effort that went into a lot of the replies, both > in their level of eloquence and in some cases the fineness of their > sarcasm. But really! Was it so very needful to demonstrate your > ability to outmaneuver a teenager? > OK, so it wasn't my last post to the list, but this is one of the last! Finally someone has noticed what is happening here! Sort-of! If anyone said anything remotely bad about the Lightning Seeds, I wouldn't really mind. But, they do live about 5 miles down the road from me, make good music, etc. They are one of my favourite bands. Oasis, I definately wouldn't mind anyone skitting them! I don't care, I like a few of their songs, that's it! I would not care if anyone said anything about any of the bands I liked, except I would disagree with them and that's it! I would not flame the person who mentioned it. I did not walk into any of this classical stuff, I mentioned I didn't like classical music, and got torched up against a wall! THANK ALOT EVERYONE! Andy **Leaving the List** -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:16:30 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: Harry's out to lunch...or so they say Hi all-- And now, from our "In Case Anyone Gives a Flying Fart Department..." I'm out for a week +, so I'm signing off during that time; otherwise I'm sure there'll be 1000's of letters in my mailbox from our mascot, Andy, telling us how he's quitting the list. :-) Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:17:28 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz >>Are you two fellows musicians? Your statements are very unworthy, crass, >>and crude to say the least. >> >>There's nothing googily or schmoopily about the charts they write, or the >>solos that are taken. >> >>Concert At Redrocks googy? Schmoopy? >> >>Puleeeeeze! Get real. >> >>WNB >> > John Tesh is to music as Wonder bread is to cuisine. >>> >>>-- Kirk >>> >> >>I agree > >Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gee, I kind of like some of John Tesh's music...and what the hell is wrong withWonder Bread? Is it that Tesh's main gig is as an announcer that you don't think he deserves any recognition as a composer/musician? In other word's, if he were a "real" composer/musician, that is all he would do? Despite your feelings regarding his music, the guy is doing well for himself. And let's face the fact that as composers and musicians we all have to live with criticism. As a composer and performer of music, I've lived with both praise and decidedly harsh criticism at times...but I'm still doing music. Tesh takes a lot of flak, but he still fills auditoriums. Alan Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:17:15 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: ... Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm still not really excited about classical music, but I'll put your suggestions on my 'someday' list. I'm now quitting the list! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:50:57 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Tim Kelly... I would like to take this opportunity everyone, to apoligize to Timothy Kelly (sorry if I've got the name wrong, I keep getting mixed up with a radio DJ), about my impolite mail a while back. Sorry again. Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:14:26 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music Sorry, didn't time to read the whole messages, but I can see what your talking about. About the classical music: Yes everyone, last night (11:50pm), I was on the computer, writing emails to you all, and listening to classical music! I had a DeBussy CD in. I listened to three of his major works, and thought that they were a little slow, especially 'Clair De Lune'. What's everyones opinion on this? Andy BTW: No matter how hard I try, I can't get away from this list! The L-Soft server gave me back my unsubscribe mail, with an error! -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:18:16 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music Peter Mueller wrote: > > Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and > recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because > they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no > indication of my personal preferences, could it be: > > Chick Corea? > Alanis Morisette? > Snoop Doggy Dog? > Clint Black? > Elvis Costello? > David Bowie? > How about: > David Dunn > Michael Finnessey > Ikue Mori > Richard Hell > Paul Lansky > Robert Erikson > Pauline Oliveros > Matyas Seiber > Lou Harrison My personal opinion is for Alanis Morissette. Would anyone like to challenge me in these matters? Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:41:21 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread OK, OK!!! Yes, you've all suceeded in your quests! I will listen to some classical music now! Yes, this is the one and only Andy speaking here, saying I WILL listen to some classical! Let's see. I have 10cd's next to me at this very moment. There's Schubert, Handel (oh, I didn't know he was German), Bach, Wagner, Mendekssohn (there's a name I haven't heard and can't prenounce), Rossini, Haydn (is he Swedish), Brahms, Debussy, Schumann. Which would you all recommend to me? Artist? Any particular symphony I should listen to? I'll see if I have it on CD. I don't think any of you actually made this decision for me! The one person who has just made me interested in classical music, is the girl I love! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:21:10 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Christian Roth wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:55:45 +0000, Andrew Whittle > wrote: > > >OK, I'll tell you now. I was brought up listening to 80's music. I love > >all those synthesiser sounds! I just can't get away from computer > >geneerated noises, so C??????? (I said I wouldn't say the word c?????? > >anymore because everyone's had enough), just isn't in my vocabulary > >(neither is spelling as you can see). > > This is it. It's not in your vocabulary. How can you talk about it? > Nobody wanted to force you to hear/like C?????? music. > > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com I'm afraid your sadly mistaken there! People DID try to force me into listening to C?????? music! Does anyone really think I mind what you all listen to? I don't care! *this is not a sarcastic comment* As long as everyone sticks to their princaples, I don't care! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:09:59 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Joe McMahon wrote: > > > WHY DON'T WE JUST TALK ABOUT HOW BAD/GOOD THAT IS INSTEAD OF ARGUING > > ABOUT ALL THIS BOREING (YES I DID SAY CLASSICAL MUSIC WAS BOREING, WOULD > > YOU ALL LIKE TO ATTACK ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT TOO?), CLASSICAL MUSIC!!! > > Well, the big problem we're *ALL* having (and I'll include me, too) is > that this is all boiling down to matters of taste, which, since it is > very subjective, can't be discussed in a reasonable manner. I think I > speak for a lot of us in saying that we hoped we could give you a gift > of enjoyment. We're sorry if it's not your color and size. > > > LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING REMOTELY INTERESTING FOR ONCE!!!!!!! > That's a fine idea. What kind of music do you like and (the important > part) what does it have to offer all of us stuffy old boring outdated > poops? :) > > --- Joe M. YOU SAID IT! I didn't say anything of the sort! I can now freely tell everyone what music I'm into without being flamed, because I am no-longer a member of this list! FREE AT LAST! I've already told everyone what sort of music I like. Listening to dance music helps me to relax, etc. I listen to Indie, etc. because I play the guitar, and they are very good rythmic songs to play. Andy :? -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:24:13 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Christian Roth wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:52:04 -0400, Joe McMahon > wrote: > > >and Late Romantic sources. You hear a lot more Neapolitan sixths and other > >non-chordal stuff in "alternative" music, as well as nontraditional musical > >forms. > > I'm not familiar with the term Neapoltian sixth. Could you please > point out to me where it comes from? > > >and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will > >allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your > >music. > > Otherwise, sometimes knowing can lead to ignorance (without even > percepting that process ). That's the other side of the medal I > always try to take care of too. > Sometimes I wish I could just hear the sounds that surround me all the > time just like the first time ever. > > Cheers, > Chris > --- > Christian Roth > > film + musik, Austria > croth@pobox.com Would someone please mind telling me what this Nepolitan 6th chord is too! I think it's got something to do with the guitar, given the tablature in the past 50 mailings and the mentioning of chords! I play the guitar too, so I wouldn't mind hearing about it! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:32:30 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Re[2]: Classical Music Peter Mueller wrote: > > OK, OK. > > I've given up on this classical thing!!! I'll say that I don't like Jazz > instead, maybe I'll have less enemies that way! > > So, who else hates Jazz here? I've seen a few Jazz lovers around here > somewhere. > > I hate to tell you Andy, I love Jazz, too. Especially the experimental stuff! > Some of that stuff is pretty hard to tell the difference between it and > experimental "classical" music, or some music based performance art. Probably > just best to call it experimental music, period. Some examples would be the > trombonist George Lewis, the sax player Anthony Braxton, and the group the > Chicago Art Ensemble. Won't make the billboard charts though. And for the > required E-music contact, George Lewis has come up with brilliant > performer/computer interactive things. Is it Jazz? Who the F___ cares? > Makes my heart pound though. > -Peter You know, the only thing that made my heart pound, was the new Independance Day movie. I just went to see it, and it's BRILLIANT. Backing music fitted it perfectly! Suited every mood! I wonder if Aliens listen to music too! I recall a certain two week discussion on EMUSIC-L a while ago, about why we listen to music. All the professors came out of hiding and started talking about the brains and the elements of music. THAT was far more interesting than the classical discusion! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:12:22 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! Joe McMahon wrote: > > > IF YOU HADN'T NOTICED, MY AIM OF JOINING THIS LIST WAS TO OBTAIN MIDI > > FILES ON ANY MODERN BANDS, BUT OBVIOUSLY NO-ONE HAS COMPLIED WITH THIS, > > BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A CLASSICAL LOVER!!! > > Well see, this is part of the problem. What we discuss here is "electronic > music". We don't swap MIDI files - generally we try to help each other > learn as much as possible - from whatever source - about the art of > composition and performance. > > > Upsetting a 13 year old kid, well that's an achievment isn't it! > > Andy, you're reallly taking it a little hard, honestly. > > > Oh, and I'll be re-joining aswell! I've got 5 email address's, all under > > seperate domain names, and all registered to various people (me or > > family, but can be altered with ease)!!! > > And making veiled threats REALLY isn't a way to make friends. I feel at this > point that I'm going to have to report this to your postmaster. I'm sorry, > because I thought that you were interested in other people's ideas. > "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND I STILL HATE IT AND YOU ALL STINK" is not > interacting. Perhaps it's acting out. > > Y'know, normally I'm REALLY REALLY hard to tick off. You've managed. > Congratulations. > > --- Joe M. You ticked me off first! Reporting me to my postmaster won't work! I know if they had something to complain about, they would throww me off Pipex, but, the have nothing to go on, because I have done nothing wrong! DID YOU KNOW: I was crying last night because you upset me that much, how does that make you feel? Oh, there you go again! I'm crying! Happy? Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:35:48 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Classical Music Joe McMahon wrote: > > > It would be more interesting if we would discuss the intentions or > > underlayed theory of compositions, not their taxonomy. > > > Yes. Examples are always useful, especially examples which can be found at > the library, for those who are SURE they don't want to spend money on learning > about this stuff... > > > What is the great difference between contemporary pop/rock and > > Classic? Are there any big changes in harmony? No. Pop/rock is quite > > reactionary in that case. > > Indeed. Many people during the Lennon/McCartney era noted that the harmonic > structures were very similar to those found in Baroque and early Classical > forms. Current musical styles seem to be drawing more from Impressionist > and Late Romantic sources. You hear a lot more Neapolitan sixths and other > non-chordal stuff in "alternative" music, as well as nontraditional musical > forms. > > This stuff is important NOT because it's "serious" or "accepted", but because > there is a lot of work by many, many people encapsulated in this music. A > composer who declines to draw upon this experience is voluntarily cutting > him/herself off from a lot of useful tools. Knowing your audience's > expectations, and then being able to go in unexpected directions, will make > your music more interesting. Understanding traditional idioms of form, harmony, > and orchestration - all things that "classical" music can teach you - will > allow you to *decide* what to keep and what to discard when you choose your > music. > > --- Joe M. > > --- Joe M. Yes, Yes! Lennon and McArtny are two artists I can relate to! They were Beetles (not literally), and they were a legendary band! Let's talk about them instead shall we? Who here, DOESN'T like the Beetles??? NOw this discussion is hotting up to my kinda style! Andy :) -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:25:24 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Nathanael W Berry wrote: > > Andy, > Dont take the EMUSIC list so seriously. You are somewhat a > victim of your own observation. As you noticed, there was little traffic on > the list for a few days - you just happened to toss out one of those > subjects that everybody likes to comment on, and as such pulled the > proverbial cork from the dam. > > Most of us are on the list for fun, although a few take "fun" a bit > more personally than others. You will probably get the most out of this (or > any) list if you ignore what appear to be attacks on you or anyone in > particular. If you toss out an opinion, clearly identify it as such (and as > such it will probably not provoke much response) - or be prepared to view > the responses with a sense of humor and a grain of salt. A statement like "I > hate jazz" is probably going to produce a few feable responses. A statement > like " I cant see how anyone can listen to that jazz crap, I hate it" is > going to get a much more agressive response! If you REALLY want to relocate > electrons around the world, and a " You'd have to be a real pinhead to like > it " or something to that effect. > > Anyway, you probably wont make a lot of friends by calling their > intelligence into question. Often that type of response is the first thing > that pops into one's mind after a particullarly pointed post. It is better > to leave that response in you outbox for a day or so, then reread it before > sending. More often than not you wont send it because in the end it does not > serve any purpose. As for the people on the list, there are some who may to > be clueless about computer technology, and others who are physicists, > mechanical engineers, electical engineers, computer engineers, and software > programmers. There appear to be music hobby, commecial, and educational > interests represented from time to time - it seems to be a pretty wide > scope. Everyone brings a different perspective to the list; that is what > should make it interesting. > > If you are only looking for midi files, this list probably wont be > of much help. There are occasional posts of sites and interesting stuff to > pursue, but you might better check newsgroups, or groups dedicated to your > particular synth or soundcard (or software). If you are interested in > listening to or creating music, especially by "electronic means", then stick > around. Tell the list (along those lines) what you are interested in - do > you create music of any type? Use a sound card, a synth, play in a band, > writing your own composition or music creating tools, etc? If you want to > catch your breath, just lurk for a while :) > > You can get this list in digest form, although you may want to > remain on the standard list and set your filter to kill emails with > "classical" in the subject field (dont forget to set case insensitive :) for > at least the next week or two. > > Take care > > Nate Actually - ADMIN. I think you better see into this! I got the address for this mailing list from AOL! In the keywords, I looked up MIDI, and it came up with one of those little keyword page thingy's. Well in it, there was a MIDI software library and the usual MIDI stuff, and there it had a list of MIDI mailing lists, this looked the best seeing as the title was Electronic Music (MIDI being electronic), then I might have been able to find what I was after, no such luck! This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular: I think some people on this list need to take a serious look at themselves, and think before they speak/type! Keep that in mind! You'll know who you are, private mailers! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:26:58 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Is there anybody out there? Robert M. Sanders wrote: > > This list does seem to have lost something. > > I banished myself from the list a few months ago after the rukus over ... > well let's not start that again! > > -rob No, no. What happened a few months ago? It might bring back that something the list lost! Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:39:33 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Andrew Whittle Subject: [Fwd: Re: Music For Film...] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------690251722928 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Admin, would you consider the forwarded message here to be a personal attack? Or, because he's over 18 he's allowed to do things like this is he? I had another one, it could have been from him or from someone else, shame I deleted it, but it stated that I was a little s___ and everyone agreed (the _ wearn't included), along with the other comments in the mail. Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" --------------690251722928 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Status: U Return-Path: Received: from transarc.com by typhoon.dial.pipex.net (8.7.5/) id PAA21305; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:08:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from sparc51.transarc.com (sparc51.transarc.com, [158.98.7.49]) by transarc.com (5.54/3.15) id for tah70@dial.pipex.com; Wed, 21 Aug 96 10:08:13 EDT Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:08:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben Cox To: Andrew Whittle Subject: Re: Music For Film... In-Reply-To: <321A15F2.21E9@dial.pipex.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 On EMUSIC-L, you wrote: > I think this is a shortened version of the last one isn't it? > > I'm not a composer anyway, so it doesn't concern me. Is there some reason you needed to burden my mailbox with this? Is there some reason you needed to burden my mailbox with the last 100 completely worthless messages which have emanated from your account? I'm starting to think you're not actually a real person; maybe you're an alias that some clever person has created to antagonize the patrons of EMUSIC-L? The discussion about whether one likes or doesn't like classical music is completely out of place on EMUSIC-L. Furthermore, nobody gives a shit if you like classical music or not. So drop it. -- Ben --------------690251722928-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:39:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321DCBB8.7099@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 23, 96 03:18:16 pm > > Chick Corea? > > Alanis Morisette? > > Snoop Doggy Dog? > > Paul Lansky I dunno about whether people will be playing all these people's stuff in 200 years, but I'd tend to think that recordings by the first three will probably still be available, although mutated in ways we'd never currently suspect. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:52:37 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: <321CEED4.515@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 22, 96 11:35:48 pm > Yes, Yes! Lennon and McArtny are two artists I can relate to! They were > Beetles (not literally), and they were a legendary band! Let's talk > about them instead shall we? > Great! > Who here, DOESN'T like the Beetles??? Oops. (I'll talk about this for a second - please keep in mind that what I'm trying to do is *help*, not hurt. OK?) The best way to get a fruitful discussion going in this or any other Internet forum (but especially this one), is not to see who wants to argue with you, but to share insights about the topic as it applies to the general topic of the list. In this vein, I'll start off by saying that some of their music probably WIL survive the next 200 years. The Abbey Road album is a triumph of recording technology and should be studied both from that angle AND from the angle of linking a few song ideas into a lovely arc, which ends perfectly with that unresolved cadence at the end of "Her Majesty". (This is an example of what I was saying above. Talks about the subject, relates it to the list topic. I really, really, am trying to be helpful and make a space for everyone.) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:05:15 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Music For Film...] In-Reply-To: <321DD0B5.23E4@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 23, 96 03:39:33 pm > Admin, would you consider the forwarded message here to be a personal > attack? Not precisely, but you have probably ticked him off because EMUSIC-L has, lately, been the "Andy doesn't like classical list". There's been one other topic, the Pierre Henry thread, but really, that's about it. What I'd do, were I you, is this: - Cut down a bit on direct responses to the list. Mail more directly back to the original sender. - Lay back for a while and see what the list does. It doesn't do much during the summer because a lot of folks are on vacation, etc. I want your Internet experiences to be good ones, really I do. You'll always, no matter how old you are, get flames and opinions from people who really don't matter that much to you. You strike me as a really smart guy who's gotten off on the wrong foot. I think that we can get this all straightened out, but you'll need to help yourself, too, by not rising to the bait when people seem to be saying things that are problematic, and by being careful not to confuse starting an argument with starting a conversation. Half of what makes a list useful is simply ignoring what doesn't concern you, and waiting a while before posting a response, so you can decide if you really, really need to do it. You might want to write back to some of these folks and say, "I'm still learning - I'd appreciate advice rather than abuse." and follow it up with a smiley - that's the ":)" - to let him/her know that you're not mad, but just kidding a little. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:14:51 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music In-Reply-To: <321DCAD2.5FB2@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 23, 96 03:14:26 pm > About the classical music: Yes everyone, last night (11:50pm), I was on > the computer, writing emails to you all, and listening to classical > music! I had a DeBussy CD in. I listened to three of his major works, > and thought that they were a little slow, especially 'Clair De Lune'. > What's everyones opinion on this? I'm a big fan of his solo piano work - I think he does some of his best work here. "Claire de Lune", and other Impressionist stuff, is proto-New Age - Debussy is a big influence on many New Age composers (mee too, though I wouldn't call my stuff New Age). "Claire de Lune" really does, for me, a great job of putting me in a moonlit garden, with the moon rising, reflecting in the little pond I can see through the branches of the trees. > BTW: No matter how hard I try, I can't get away from this list! The > L-Soft server gave me back my unsubscribe mail, with an error! Let me know if you need me to delete you. I have an impression that pipex remaps the mail addresses it sends out, confusing listserv no end. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:18:14 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread In-Reply-To: <321CF021.7309@dial.pipex.com> from "Andrew Whittle" at Aug 22, 96 11:41:21 pm > Let's see. I have 10cd's next to me at this very moment. There's > Schubert, Handel (oh, I didn't know he was German), Bach, Wagner, > Mendekssohn (there's a name I haven't heard and can't prenounce), > Rossini, Haydn (is he Swedish), Brahms, Debussy, Schumann. Rossini and Bach are probably my two favorites there. Debussy is good in small doses (or large ones, sometimes...) > Which would you all recommend to me? Artist? Any particular symphony I > should listen to? I'll see if I have it on CD. The Bach two- and three-part inventions are great stuff, as are the Brandenburg concertos. You should be able to find a LOT of Bach for the guitar - John Williams (not the "Star Wars" guy) has a lot of good recordings out. > I don't think any of you actually made this decision for me! The one > person who has just made me interested in classical music, is the girl I > love! It's one of the best reasons in the world. :) --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:26:48 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wayne Freno Subject: Emusic-L in digest form? I've heard that it is possible to receive Emusic-L in a digest form. How do I do it? Thanks, Wayne Freno ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:33:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music Comments: To: busaco@INFOIASI.RO Sabin e-mail: busaco@linux.infoiasi.ro busaco@dragon.uaic.ro www: http://linux.infoiasi.ro/~busaco wrote >Another theme of discussion: the electronic music can be religious? Well, the late "classical" electronic composer Bulent Arel composed some wonderful church music. You might want to dig around in a good library and see if you can find the old CRI record (yes, vinyl) "Electronic Pioneers". It has two nice pieces by Arel, one is called "Music for Sacred Service" -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:47:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: FWD:gmidipatch mailing list ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: william@plug-in.com.br at @UCSD Date: 8/23/96 12:49PM *To: eps@oak.oakland.edu at @UCSD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is forwarded from the eps mailing list. Thought some folks here might find it interesting. -Peter ======================================================================== Hy, I like to tell to All that I have a Digital-Music & Samplers mailing list. For now, it talks most of Ensoniq Samples, Midi Musics, Digital Composions... and other Digital things! |->> Just send a message to: listserv@rbt.plug-in.com.br and put on the body: subscribe gmidipatch and that's all! |->>>> It uses two languages: English and Portuguese (just like Spanish) Thank's! / Novo Hamburgo - RS \ FutureKids - Your Child / / www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3104 \ Will Save the World / ============================================================================ This mailing list is processed through Majordomo at Oakland University. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@oak.oakland.edu. In the message body put: unsubscribe eps >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from oak.oakland.edu by mail.ucsd.edu; id IAA04476 sendmail 8.6.12/UC >Received: (from listserv@localhost) by oak.oakland.edu (8.7.4/8.7.4-jdm) id LAA >Received: from bigbox.plug-in.com.br (root@bigbox.plug-in.com.br [200.238.61.1] >Received: from William (mdm202.plug-in.com.br [200.238.61.67]) by bigbox.plug-i >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:49:26 -0300 >Message-Id: <199608231549.MAA24380@bigbox.plug-in.com.br> >X-Sende >X-Maile >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >X-Priority: 1 (Highest) >To: "Ep >From: william@plug-in.com.br (Guilherme Kalfelz) >Sender: owner-eps@oak.oakland.edu >Precedence: bul >Errors-To: majordomo-owner@oak.oakland.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:39:17 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Emusic-L in digest form? In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Freno" at Aug 23, 96 09:26:48 am > > I've heard that it is possible to receive Emusic-L > in a digest form. How do I do it? > > Thanks, > > Wayne Freno > For now, send a message to listserv@american.edu with the text set emusic-l digest Watch this space for information on the WWW-based, fill-out-the-form, subscribe/unsubscribe/digest/etc. page... coming soon to a web browser near you! --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:41:26 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music In-Reply-To: from "Peter Mueller" at Aug 23, 96 08:33:00 am > Well, the late "classical" electronic composer Bulent Arel composed > some wonderful church music. You might want to dig around in a good > library and see if you can find the old CRI record (yes, vinyl) > "Electronic Pioneers". It has two nice pieces by Arel, one is called > "Music for Sacred Service" > -Peter > Arel has a tremendous ear for timbre. I have a very old LP from the Columbia-Princeton Electronic Music center that leads off with a piece by him. Highly recommended. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:00:50 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: The Classical Music and The Contemporary Music >Sorry, didn't time to read the whole messages, but I can see what your >talking about. > >About the classical music: Yes everyone, last night (11:50pm), I was on >the computer, writing emails to you all, and listening to classical >music! I had a DeBussy CD in. I listened to three of his major works, >and thought that they were a little slow, especially 'Clair De Lune'. >What's everyones opinion on this? 'Claire De Lune'... ....slow? Try his 'Nuages' (it's REALLY slow) and you will see that there's not all that much new about 'New Age'. Hi Andy. My name is Gus. Think of me as 'Uncle Gus' if you like. Personally, if I remember correctly, I must have been close to twenty before I developed an ear for Cloud Debussy. Give yourself some time to get your ya ya's out. You'll mellow eventually. Take care, and enjoy your brutal youth while you've got it. Gus Alden ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:24:27 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! >DID YOU KNOW: I was crying last night because you upset me that much, how >does that make you feel? Oh, there you go again! I'm crying! Happy? Andy (if I may intervene). Being that you have expressed your appreciation for how soundtrack music serves to highlight what's happening in a film, I thought I might suggest that this would be a perfect opportunity for you to slap on Wagner's 'Tristan & Isolde". And have a box of Kleenex handy. Gus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:36:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ben Cox Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! In-Reply-To: <321CE956.1DFB@dial.pipex.com> Come on, folks. This guy can't possibly be for real. It's gotta be some jerk who knows full well what he's doing, and is just purposely setting out to tick us off. (This is what I said in the first half of my private email to him which he so rudely copied to the mailing list after carefully removing that part...) This is not a 13-year old kid. He's milking us for all it's worth. I sincerely hope that he gets off the list soon. I'm tired of opening up my mailer to find 50 new messages, half of which are from him to EMUSIC-L. I'm half tempted to unsubscribe myself, just to keep this utter garbage out of my mailbox. __ Ben Cox cox@transarc.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: boring Classical Music thread Andy said: >> The one person who has just made me interested in classical music, is the >>>>girl I love! Joe M. said: >It's one of the best reasons in the world. :) Yes Joe, indeed.. ....and if he holds on to that girl long enough, he just may discover what so-called 'classical music' is really all about. Gus Alden ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:25:17 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Hey Andy! Try the Rite of Spring > >Let's see. I have 10cd's next to me at this very moment. There's >Schubert, Handel (oh, I didn't know he was German), Bach, Wagner, >Mendekssohn (there's a name I haven't heard and can't prenounce), >Rossini, Haydn (is he Swedish), Brahms, Debussy, Schumann. > >Which would you all recommend to me? Artist? Any particular symphony I >should listen to? I'll see if I have it on CD. Andy, if you can find a recording of The Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky, please listen to that first, before you try any of the other things you have listed up there. I first heard the Rite of Spring when I was 14 and it really seriously knocked my socks off. I had been listening to the Beatles and Beethoven pretty much 50/50, but when I heard the Rite of Spring it tipped the scales way in favor of classical, because for me rock could not possibly deliver the same punch as Stravinsky did in that piece. From that point on Stravinsky was God to me. This is not to say you'll have the same reaction as I did. Very likely you won't. You still might get a rush out of it though. Again, try to find "Hoodoo Zephyr" by John Adams. When I hear this album I'm not quite sure if I'm listening to "classical" music, or something else. It's kinda cool nonetheless. (IMHO). I'll have more to say about this in another post later. Also Andy, you were right. Calling you a smart-ass was a personal attack and I shouldn't have said it. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:51:14 EST Reply-To: mbriggs@ix.netcom.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Michael V. Briggs" Subject: Beatles (was Re: Classical Music) >In this vein, I'll start off by saying that some of their music probably >WIL survive the next 200 years. The Abbey Road album is a triumph of >recording technology and should be studied both from that angle AND >from the angle of linking a few song ideas into a lovely arc, which >ends perfectly with that unresolved cadence at the end of "Her Majesty". I agree that "Her Majesty" is the perfect ending for the album, but it was purely accidental. The song was originally somewhere in the middle of side 2. The Beatles instructed the engineer to edit it out. Not knowing what else to do with it, he tacked it onto the end of the master. The unresolved cadence, as well as the initial chord, are the results of sloppy editing. When the Beatles heard the way it sounded they decided to leave it that way. Michael Briggs mbriggs@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:33:49 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ben Cox Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Music For Film...] Comments: To: Joe McMahon Comments: cc: tah70@dial.pipex.com In-Reply-To: <199608231605.MAA28138@clark.net> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Joe McMahon wrote: > > Admin, would you consider the forwarded message here to be a personal > > attack? > Not precisely, but you have probably ticked him off because EMUSIC-L > has, lately, been the "Andy doesn't like classical list". There's been > one other topic, the Pierre Henry thread, but really, that's about it. Precisely. (Indeed, I have found the Pierre Henry thread informative, as well as the Arvo Part thread. Even the John Tesh stuff is interesting; I must admit that I've never heard his music and might now try to hear some.) The thing that specifically made my blood boil about the "Re: Music For Film..." article was that it SPECIFICALLY made NO contribution. After receiving close to fifty messages from Andy in a single day, to receive YET ONE MORE that attacked another poster who posted only TWICE (possibly even accidentally, as he noted in his followup), saying "anyway I'm not a composer so it doesn't concern me", was just too much. I don't write music for film either, so I don't have much to say about it. But I'd be interested in reading the column, because film scoring does sound like something I'd be interested in doing at some point. Did I post to the list to say that? No. Why? Because people on the list, some of whom are halfway around the world, and very few of whom would know me from Adam, generally don't care whether I personally would be interested in reading that column or not. Just like people halfway around the world, who don't know Andy Whittle from Adam, don't need to know whether or not he can get his allegedly-young mind around "classical" music. Especially on a mailing list that's not about that. I suppose I should have just SAID that; instead what came out was the article Andy forwarded (incidentally, I am not the author of the other message to which he alluded). Sorry; I get brusque when I'm annoyed. Please accept my apology for the language. (Incidentally, I also get annoyed when private email I send gets posted to a mailing list, especially if that email was email I regretted having sent, as in this case, when I later found out that Andy is [or claims to be] only 13.) Now, I don't mind a lot of traffic, if it's at least marginally on-topic or the authors of said traffic at least have something to SAY. What I really do mind is being DELUGED with traffic that says absolutely nothing. I have work to do; I have bugs to fix. I don't mind being distracted from that by discussions of electronic music. I really do mind being distracted from that by the fact that some kid doesn't like classical music. If I wanted that I'd waste my day reading every last article in some alt.* newsgroup on USENET. One thing I like very much about EMUSIC-L is that it generally has concise discussions between people who are knowledgeable about the topic. I also like the fact that the traffic isn't overwhelming. (The main reason I didn't subscribe two years ago when Mike Metlay told me about the list was that I was afraid the traffic would be overwhelming.) Lately, EMUSIC-L has had neither of these positive qualities. I came this close >< to unsubscribing today. And yesterday. And the day before. Is this going to continue? Please let me know now, so I can save a lot of grief and just unsubscribe in advance. __ Ben Cox cox@transarc.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:54:51 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: The late firestorm I believe that, between some frank but supportive exchanges between Andy and myself, and his unsubscribing, that we've passed this particular lava-filled chasm. I commend all who have come down on the side of generosity and apologized for getting steamed. As Mike says, we can (and usually do) do better than nearly any other list or discussion group it's been my pleasure to be on. To those who were smarter than I was and didn't get into this at all: thanks. I'd like to move on my noting that I'm working on some simulations of self-playing analog patches in csound on the PowerPC. I'd be interested in thoughts from others about the best way to do this. I'm beginning to think that the best approach might be to write up a bunch of objects in Perl5 which accept "ticks" from a scheduler; I'm trying to decide on the best strategy for "monitoring" the objects that are to simulate the oscillators. The csound program then becomes a very simple orchestra file which reads the score produced by the Perl program. Am I approaching this wrong? would it be easier to set up a set of co-routines in csound to handle this? I'd have the advantage of realtime MIDI control this way, of course. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:40:45 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: John Krikawa Subject: Re: self-playing analog At 03:54 PM 8/23/96 -0400, you wrote: >I commend all who have come down on the side of generosity and apologized >for getting steamed. As Mike says, we can (and usually do) do better than >nearly any other list or discussion group it's been my pleasure to be on. Fortunately for some odd reason I was removed from EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L and missed a good 3/4 of it (but I read the digests in case I missed anything interesting. . .I didn't ;) ) [JOE: if you see two occurrences of my address in your index list, nuke the older one] >I'd like to move on my noting that I'm working on some simulations of >self-playing analog patches in csound on the PowerPC. What do you mean by 'self-playing', and... >I'm beginning to >think that the best approach might be to write up a bunch of objects >in Perl5 which accept "ticks" from a scheduler; I'm trying to decide on >the best strategy for "monitoring" the objects that are to simulate the >oscillators. The csound program then becomes a very simple orchestra file >which reads the score produced by the Perl program. > >Am I approaching this wrong? would it be easier to set up a set of >co-routines in csound to handle this? I'd have the advantage of realtime >MIDI control this way, of course. Are you getting realtime response from C-sound on your mac as it stands now? If so, what kind of file resolution is it putting out? Perl-scripted orchestra files sounds pretty slick Joe, I'd be interested in hearing a little more about this logistically (warning:I don't work with macs much). -john ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JKRIKAWA@CCIT.Arizona.Edu Tucson, Arizona homepage-less day: (520) 626-6013 night: (520) 326-3068 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz While I would put John Tesh into the easily-digestible, non-offensive, music-for-the-lowest-common-denominator category (maybe the musical equivilant to TV sitcoms), I think the big question is: Would he be anywhere near as famous if not for his day job? Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ---------- From: mail@ih (Alan M. Bookmiller) {abook@PROXIMA.COM} To: mail@ih (Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L) {EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU}; nm1 Subject: Re: Andy's Jazz Date: Friday, August 23, 1996 10:43AM Priority: Low >>Are you two fellows musicians? Your statements are very unworthy, crass, >>and crude to say the least. >> >>There's nothing googily or schmoopily about the charts they write, or the >>solos that are taken. >> >>Concert At Redrocks googy? Schmoopy? >> >>Puleeeeeze! Get real. >> >>WNB >> > John Tesh is to music as Wonder bread is to cuisine. >>> >>>-- Kirk >>> >> >>I agree > >Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gee, I kind of like some of John Tesh's music...and what the hell is wrong withWonder Bread? Is it that Tesh's main gig is as an announcer that you don't think he deserves any recognition as a composer/musician? In other word's, if he were a "real" composer/musician, that is all he would do? Despite your feelings regarding his music, the guy is doing well for himself. And let's face the fact that as composers and musicians we all have to live with criticism. As a composer and performer of music, I've lived with both praise and decidedly harsh criticism at times...but I'm still doing music. Tesh takes a lot of flak, but he still fills auditoriums. Alan Bookmiller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:56:18 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music Hi. (Not that it matters, but just for the record I was the person who started this thread. Peter's name was probably picked up from a reply. Whatever.) I agree with your opinion on Alanis Morisette. Although in my initial post I didn't want to give away my preferences, she would be one of them, as would Chick Corea and David Bowie. Not that these are necessarily Mozart-level geniuses (well, Chick maybe), but I have always respected people who "zag", not just for the sake of being different, but because they are honestly expressing something inside themselves that's different from the mainstream. There are many other I could name, but I chose these because I'm new to the list and not well acquainted with the group's tastes. Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ---------- From: mail@ih (Andrew Whittle) {tah70@DIAL.PIPEX.COM} To: mail@ih (Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L) {EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU}; nm1 Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music Date: Friday, August 23, 1996 11:03AM Priority: Low Peter Mueller wrote: > > Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and > recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because > they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no > indication of my personal preferences, could it be: > > Chick Corea? > Alanis Morisette? > Snoop Doggy Dog? > Clint Black? > Elvis Costello? > David Bowie? > How about: > David Dunn > Michael Finnessey > Ikue Mori > Richard Hell > Paul Lansky > Robert Erikson > Pauline Oliveros > Matyas Seiber > Lou Harrison My personal opinion is for Alanis Morissette. Would anyone like to challenge me in these matters? Andy -- Andysmoke@dial.pipex.com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/parade/tah70 http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5024 "Computers aren't intelligent - they just think they are!" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:53:40 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jim Crossley Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9113.A4403CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Come on, folks. This guy can't possibly be for real. He's right. No self-respecting 13-year-old is going to admit that he was "flamed to the point of tears." :-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David John Rosborough Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! In-Reply-To: from "Ben Cox" at Aug 23, 96 02:36:40 pm > Come on, folks. This guy can't possibly be for real. > > This is not a 13-year old kid. He's milking us for all it's worth. Actually, he is. He's been on the list before, a few months back, and told us that he was 13 then... Back then, he didn't get into huge flame wars, either. But it is true - he is a real person. TTYL DaveR ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Subject: Re: QUITTING!!! >Come on, folks. This guy can't possibly be for real. > >It's gotta be some jerk who knows full well what he's doing, and is >just purposely setting out to tick us off. (This is what I said in >the first half of my private email to him which he so rudely copied to >the mailing list after carefully removing that part...) > >This is not a 13-year old kid. He's milking us for all it's worth. > >I sincerely hope that he gets off the list soon. I'm tired of opening >up my mailer to find 50 new messages, half of which are from him to >EMUSIC-L. I'm half tempted to unsubscribe myself, just to keep this >utter garbage out of my mailbox. > >__ >Ben Cox cox@transarc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone have an "Andysmoke" filter? Yea, I'm with you Ben, these posts are a little "fishy." Too deliberate an attempt to sound like a youngster - check the purposely mispelled words. Whoever it is he's "pissed me off" to the point of duckng out for while myself, so I"M QUITTING THE LIST! THERE I HOPE YOU"RE HAPPY ANDY!!! SOB, CRY, SOB! I'm, still here - just kidding. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:06:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: Hey Andy! Try the Rite of Spring Comments: To: mgs2@CORNELL.EDU mgs2@CORNELL.EDU wrote >Andy, if you can find a recording of The Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky, >please listen to that first, before you try any of the other things you have >listed up there. Listen to it LOUD, too. The LOUDER the better. If you don't start dancing around the room after about 5-8 minutes, well, I'd be speechless. ;-) -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:33:52 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: self-playing analog In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960823204045.006a0bbc@CCIT.Arizona.Edu> from "John Krikawa" at Aug 23, 96 01:40:45 pm > What do you mean by 'self-playing', and... The particular one I have is a patch/composition called "Entropical Paradise with Bird Call", originally build as a standalone patch for one of the Buchla machines way back. The copy of it I have comes from Alan Strange's "Electronic Music: [something] and Materials". It's a set of oscillators which use gated voltage sources to drive analog sequencers if a feedback loop; a noise source is used to introduce random voltages at different points in the system, both controlling the pan/frequency of the oscillators and randomly clocking the sequencers. It sounds so neat that I want to try it without spending thousands of bucks on machines that I have no room for in my house. [description of Perl -> score -> csound process deleted] > Are you getting realtime response from C-sound on your mac as it stands > now? If so, what kind of file resolution is it putting out? Perl-scripted > orchestra files sounds pretty slick Joe, I'd be interested in hearing a > little more about this logistically (warning:I don't work with macs much). Yes! The PPC version does this quite nicely. Another application, SuperCollider, does it even better. SuperCollider seems a bit more "close" to the Mac's hardware - it's essentially a standalone version of Pyrite (for all you MAX folks). At $250, though, I'm looking into other solutions. SuperCollider has GREAT real-time control: you can set up a bunch of sliders that control a whole batch of different parameters, click on one, wiggle a MIDI controller, and voila - the two are connected! I don't have csound loaded here at work; I'll have to check it out at home. The Perl-to-csound business loses the direct realtime control; I'd have to write a file that tweaked the "virtual knobs" of the Perl objects as they ran. With Perl5 this is really easy - you just define a method for each object that allows you to "turn a knob" by giving a target setting, and how fast it's supposed to get there; the object updates the value at the start of each "tick cycle". If this is getting too complex for the list, I can go to private mail. If there are folks interested in how this all looks from a design standpoint, I can write it up as a set of articles and post 'em. Sort of a guide to using object-oriented programming to simulate an interconnected analog setup. With sufficiently detailed models of the response characteristics of different analog modules, you could have a lot of fun. A hybrid Serge/Moog modular/Buchla system, using the Arp 2600's envelope follower and a 1024-step analog sequencer... It might be simpler to get MAX and Pyrite, though I like the idea of being able to write the modules really, really fast using Perl and testing them easily. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:37:01 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Michael V. Briggs" Organization: Syzygy Studios Subject: Emusic/synth books I think the Allen Strange book Joe is referring to is: "Electronic Music: Systems, Techniques, and Controls". Originally copyrighted in 1972 and updated in 1984, it is an excellent primer in basic analog synthesis and emusic from those glorious pre-MIDI days. It starts with the basics of sound and synthesis, and takes you all the way to scores and techniques, including "Entropical Paradise (with Bird Call)" and a piece called "A Shadow Of It's Former Self" which calls for a modular synth, one four-track recorder, two two-tracks, two mics, frequency shifter, digital delay (how did that get in there?), and two voltage pedals. Joe, when you get that one working, let me know :) The interesting thing is I just picked this book up two months ago at a half-price bookstore in Houston. I have found such places to be a gold mine for out-of-print synth/emusic books, usually at quite reasonable prices. So, far, my best deal has been a like-new copy of Howard Massey's "A Synthesist's Guide to Acoustic Instruments", complete with sound sheet, for only 99 cents. As a bonus, many of these places stock old LP's, which can be used as fodder for sample mangling. Michael Briggs mbriggs@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:15:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Doug Wellington Subject: Re: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## In-Reply-To: "Your message of Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:26:29 -0400." <960822232628_185726230@emout12.mail.aol.com> Previously: >I for one would like to know more about Doug Wellington's manipulation >software. Although I don't normally compose using set classes or serial >techniques, I am interested in brain exercises and music software of this >sort. Hi, Have you looked through any of the 20th century theory books? Allen Forte's "The Structure of Atonal Music" is one of the best references... I also suggest "Basic Atonal Theory" by John Rahn... And George Perle has written a couple interesting books, "Serial Composition and Atonality" comes to mind... For starting out with some of this stuff, I suggest you get Larry Solomon's Music Analysis program. <"http://www.azstarnet.com/~solo"> The manipulations that I do have to do with building the "standard" transposition matrix. This is a 12x12 matrix with the 48 possible forms of a 12 tone row (row, inversion, retrograde, retrograde-inversion). I also have routines to tell me what the intervals are and to let me manipulate the octave placement. (For most of my analysis, the octave is irrelevant.) Then, given one or more tone rows, I can combine the various forms and compare interval and combinatoriality. I've also written a routine to "compile" my tone row into a MIDI file. I plan to work on some routines to explore inversions and positions of note groups ("pitch-class sets" or "chords"). At some point, I hope to put a "pretty" GUI front end on it all... (I started writing in Perl, but now most of it is in Python. Both are interpretted "scripting" languages, and I think interpreters are available for Unix, PC and Mac. I'll probably build the front end in TCL...) I think it would be fun to be able to feed these patterns into csound too... When I get my own web page, I'll put these routines up... (Right now I have a 2400 baud modem, and I don't know how soon I'll be able to upgrade...) -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"...? FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org... Just say NO to Netscape Navigator! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:01:06 MDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Organization: NileNet Limited Subject: VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory Hey, I downloaded an attached file called "WINMAIL.DAT" but it won't open on my Mac - WHAT IS IT? Thanks... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:09:24 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ben Cox Subject: Re: New Spin on Re: Classical Music In-Reply-To: > > Let's consider this question: Who are the "Mozarts" of today's current and > > recent music world -- those geniuses who aren't appreciated as such because > > they don't exactly fit into the established model (the status quo)? With no > > indication of my personal preferences, could it be: I would probably add Brian Eno to that list. __ Ben Cox cox@transarc.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Doug Wellington Subject: Winmail.dat Was: Re: VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory In-Reply-To: "Your message of Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:01:06 MDT." <00AC0988.fc@nile.com> Previously: >Hey, I downloaded an attached file called "WINMAIL.DAT" but it won't open on >my Mac - WHAT IS IT? Thanks... EEEEEK!!!! The dreaded winmail.dat! Run for the hills! Seriously though, it's an attachment that is useful for certain mailers so that they can figure out what parameters to use when displaying the message. I think Microsoft's Exchange Server generates it, but it can be turned off by the originator of the message... -Doug Doug Wellington doug@sun1paztcn.wr.usgs.gov System and Network Administrator US Geological Survey, Tucson, AZ Project Office According to proposed Federal guidelines, this message is a "non-record". Hmm, I wonder if _everything_ I say is a "non-record"...? FreeBSD and Apache - the best real tools for the virtual world! Check out www.freebsd.org and www.apache.org... Just say NO to Netscape Navigator! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:36:29 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Emusic/synth books Hi All, Yes, I too go to used bookstores such as half price books, here in Houston, where about once a mo, there always seems to be something new emusic wise. The last trip there, I picked up Computers and Music and a whole other bunch of UK pub books. I'm glad to see that some of the newer bookstore/cafe chains, Borders Books, Barnes and Noble, also stock and can get books on emusic. MicroCenter also stocks a bunch of them. Happy Emusic Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paul LaVigne Subject: Classical Bealtes >Yes, Yes! Lennon and McArtny are two artists I can relate to! They were >Beetles (not literally), and they were a legendary band! Let's talk >about them instead shall we? > >Who here, DOESN'T like the Beetles??? >NOw this discussion is hotting up to my kinda style! I can appreciate the Beatles, but I don't LOVE them the way baby boomers do. I didn't grow up with them; only a few of their songs really "speak to me". Should I go take a Beatles appreciation class? Paul plavigne@sirius.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:43:17 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Craig Marks Subject: Re: The late firestorm Joe, >I'd like to move on my noting that I'm working on some simulations of >self-playing analog patches in csound on the PowerPC. Huh? Could you explain what you're talking about? Sounds interesting. -Craig ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:34:44 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tony Cappellini Subject: MX8 puzzle I'm using the MX8 as a digital delay to send delayed data to one of my synths. Ch 1 KYBD ---------> MX8(proc A)-------------> Synth 1 ( delayed) Ch 1 On the Routing screen, Processor A's output is routed to Synth 1's input. The Keyboard's output is routed to Processor A's input. On the Proc A edit screen, Process Channel = 1 All filters are OFF and the Dly (Delay) screen is set as follows Dly 1X CH1 TIME 250ms For some reason, I hear the original note AND the delayed note on synth 1. I'm expecting to hear ONLY the delayed note. Are my expectations worng ? Tony | ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:24:44 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fredrik Montelius Organization: Students Subject: Re: Classical Bealtes Paul LaVigne wrote: > > >Yes, Yes! Lennon and McArtny are two artists I can relate to! They were > >Beetles (not literally), and they were a legendary band! Let's talk > >about them instead shall we? > > > >Who here, DOESN'T like the Beetles??? > >NOw this discussion is hotting up to my kinda style! > > I can appreciate the Beatles, but I don't LOVE them the way baby boomers do. > I didn't grow up with them; only a few of their songs really "speak to me". No, no, no! Whenever I hear the Beatles I try to do something about it; turn off the blasted radio, walk out of the room, or kindly suggest some other record being played instead. This has little to do with the Beatles being a poor band, although their songs are often simple and silly. It's more a generational thing. I am too old and too young to like them. Those people being teenagers in the swinging sixties may be more inclined to like them, as are teenagers today since there has been a Beatles revival in the past years. For me, pop has to be newer; say from the time of ELP or Pink Floyd and more recent (and Pink Floyd seem to get better every year). Because of my age (and *indeed* for several other reasons as well), I find it a lot more easy to enjoy more "timeless" music (knowing there is no such thing, really) such as Bach, Brahms, Holst, Cage and Xenakis on the one hand, and more up-to-date pop on the other, say Oasis, Suede, Popsicle and the Cardigans, knowing of course, that all these bands depend on the Beatles evoling (devolving?) the pop music some thirty years ago. Won't somebody can the Beatles for good? For my sake, please? F. Montelius (actually preferring Wings to the Beatles) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:57:44 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: MX8 puzzle >Are my expectations worng ? I had a quick look at the manual. (My MX-8 is offline and I can't try it out.) The manual isn't clear, but suggests that you always get the "dry" note data as well as any delayed data. Btw. this is SYNTH-L territory. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 16:57:52 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Arvo Part >Fratres and Tabula Rasa on "Tabula >Rasa" ECM 1275; Here in the UK, ECM records tend to have the scarcity of rocking-horse shit, but thankfully, Arvo Part's music is available on other labels. For FRATRES, I recommend the album of that name by the Orchestra of Flanders on TELARC (CD-80387). You get six arrangements of the piece, plus Cantus, Summa and Festina Lente. >and the >latest album out, also on ECM, is "Litany" ECM 1592, but Litany is not >one of the better discs, I think. I've heard a snatch of this new one on the radio, and will try to find it (and also file your notes with the other ones on ECM). Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:56:59 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: On the "classical music" thread >When's the last time you heard a challenging piece of orchestral >music coming out of the radio before 9 PM? Once again, proof that you guys are living on the wrong continent. BBC Radio 3 (commercial-free, by the way) has all sorts of unfamiliar stuff, all day. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:40:11 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jonathan Klizas Subject: Re: On the "classical music" thread At 09:56 AM 8/25/96 +0100, you wrote: >>When's the last time you heard a challenging piece of orchestral >>music coming out of the radio before 9 PM? > >Once again, proof that you guys are living on the wrong continent. BBC >Radio 3 (commercial-free, by the way) has all sorts of unfamiliar stuff, >all day. > > Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects > http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control > > years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again > I'm late to this thread, but "challenging" seems self-explanatory. In the New York area, this qualification is met by at least two FM radio stations, WNYC at 93.9, and, depending on the time of the day and the day of the week (when jazz isn't on the menu) WKCR at 89.9 which programs a lot of very interesting music that doesn't get played ANYwhere. Jonathan Klizas jcklizas@bc.cybernex.net jcklizas@usa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:29:47 EDT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Disembodied Voives Playlist Comments: To: analogue@hyperreal.com, audrey.faine@hos.com, jennifer.daunt@hos.com, midi@cosmos.att.com, mirage@hpdsojk.ptp.hp.com, new-age-radio@cs.uwp.edu, p.gulch@genie.geis.com, rrich@slonet.org, space-music@cs.uwp.edu, synth-diy@horus.sara.nl, synth-l@american.edu, tjacobs@interserv.com Playlist for DISEMBODIED VOICES Bill Fox filling in for Jeff Bauer. Aired on WDIY FM ALLENTOWN PA. 08/25/96 at 11 pm to 1 am. 88.1 FM Bethlehem/Allentown and 93.9 FM Easton/Phillipsburg Lehigh Valley Community Public Radio - Member Supported 11 pm: ARTIST SELECTION ALBUM (LABEL) ------------------ -------------------- --------------------- Jonn Serrie Sky Safari Flightpath (Miramar) Kevin Braheny & A Perfect Evening The Spell (HOS) Tim Story for Flying Carpets Michael Stearns Elysian E Collected Ambient & Textural Works (HOS) Michael Stearns Voyager Collected Thematic Works (HOS) Steve Roach The Dreamer Descends The Dreamer Descends (Amplexus) Steve Roach True West The Dreamer Descends Robert Rich The Simorgh Sleeps on A Troubled Resting Place Velvet Tongues (HOS) 12 am: ARTIST SELECTION ALBUM (LABEL) ------------------ -------------------- --------------------- Vidna Obmana Equal Distance The Throne of Drones (Sombient/Asphodel) Chuck Van Zyl Europa The Relic (Pinnacle) Ron Boots Detachment of Worldly Detachment of Worldly Affairs Part I Affairs (Cue) Team Metlay Prologue: 0500 Ballistic (Atomic City) Team Metlay A Gathering of the Ballistic (Atomic City) MIGHTY Robert Rich Guilin Propogation (HOS) Rober Rich & B. Elemental Trigger Stalker (HOS) Lustmord (exerpt) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:30:00 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re[2]: ## VRML 1.0 & Atonal Set Theory to S-COM ## Comments: To: doug@SUN1PAZTCN.WR.USGS.GOV Hi, Have you looked through any of the 20th century theory books? Allen Forte's "The Structure of Atonal Music" is one of the best references... I also suggest "Basic Atonal Theory" by John Rahn... And George Perle has written a couple interesting books, "Serial Composition and Atonality" comes to mind... One more book I would add to this list is Robert Morris' "Composition with Pitch Classes" (Yale Univ. Press) From a compositional point of view (rather than an analytical...) it is by far my favorite. The other Perle book is "12 Tone Tonality" It basically tell you how to do the George Perle thing. One more worth looking at is Chales Wuorinen's "Simple Composition". W's book is a real good primer for 12 tone. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 12:34:26 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Power Stripping Comments: To: SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU, megaphone@RESROCKET.COM, listserv@RBT.PLUG-IN.COM.BR Hi all: I'm re-setting-up my home studio, with the objective of getting 50 pounds of poop into a 5 pound bag. The best place I've found for my 3 power strips (surge protectors) is on top of my Mac LC-III (the actual computer part -- the monitor is elsewhere). Would this be a problem, in terms of electrical or magnetic fields generated, and resulting computer badness? Thanks for any help, Neil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:06:31 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: When I was about 13 When I was about 13 I was very much into "classical" in the vernacular sense. My favorites were Bach, Mozart, light stuff like Diabelli sonatinas, Hyden, etc. It took a while to aclimate to Beethoven's intensity, which still is too demanding. I guess I was mostly into the piano stuff or string quartets or orchestra stuff. Instrumental. Later I became appreciative of mixed mode compositions like concertos. I became more interested in later stuff like Beethoven through Dvorjak. I wanted to be a composer some day, and tried to understand what was happening in the little black dots peppering the pages. Why did they move me when I played them? What mechanism caused this? How could I learn to "speak" the language rather than just "parrot" the language? I spent many hours trying to improvise and experiment with what I perceived to be the concepts embedded in the music. Of course, my piano teacher did not approve of the "undisciplined" freeform improvising. Then one summer (I was about 13) the world expanded. I was already exposing myself to things like Mahler, Sousa, Wagner, Ives, Bartok, Teleman, etc. My friend brought over a YES album (Relayer) with a song on the first side called Gates of Delerium that goes on for 22 minutes. It blew my mind! For me, it was an example of contemporary music with the sweeping granduer of the music I had studied and loved. I bought his copy on the spot. Then, a few days later, I saw on a little black and white television this guy playing the electric bass with an unbelievable fluent virtuoustic precision with another guy playing an electronic keyboard. They were having a musical conversation that obviously was being improvised. I cought the name of the bass player- Stanley Clark. Later I bought his album. Eventually I found out the name of the keyboardist- Chick Corea. When I played my first "Return to Forever" album at home, my parents said it was a cheap imitation of "Jesus Christ Superstar". I don't know where that came from. I think they were afraid i'd be debased by it. Which I was. Then I started listening to all the jazz I could get my hands on. Whereas my focus classically unfolded chronologically, my focus in jazz went in reverse starting with fusion back through cool then bop and finally swing. I never really bonded with Dixieland. As soon as I could get a job as a bus boy at Howard Johnson's I started saving money to get my first Fender Rhoades electric piano. At this point I lost my interest in seriously perfecting classical piano pieces, where you practice the same thing for hours everyday for a year, and then go out and play it at a recital. Like an amoeba, I continue to expand. I've even learned to appreciate country music! -rob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:59:42 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: When I was about 21 >Teleman, etc. My friend brought over a YES album (Relayer) with a song >on the first side called Gates of Delerium that goes on for 22 minutes. Hooray for Yes. That same side opened some doors for me. I was a 21 year old music student trying my earnest best to emulate the most complex atonal pitch and rhythmic formulations of Elliott Carter, and here this music came along and demonstrated that rock music was capable of sustaining a coherent large-scale (I wanted to say "symphonic" but that would be making to big a claim) musical structure. I realized I didn't need these metric modulations, pitch-matrices and all that other stuff to make contemporary music. It was a very liberating experience. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "" Subject: Re: When I was about 13 This is the stuff that "Complete Musicians" are made of. A great story. Neil nm1@shafer.usa.com ---------- From: mail@ih (Robert M. Sanders) {RMSanders@SMTPGATE.READ.TASC.COM} To: mail@ih (Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L) {EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU}; nm1 Subject: When I was about 13 Date: Tuesday, August 27, 1996 1:01PM Priority: Low When I was about 13 I was very much into "classical" in the vernacular sense. My favorites were Bach, Mozart, light stuff like Diabelli sonatinas, Hyden, etc. It took a while to aclimate to Beethoven's intensity, which still is too demanding. I guess I was mostly into the piano stuff or string quartets or orchestra stuff. Instrumental. Later I became appreciative of mixed mode compositions like concertos. I became more interested in later stuff like Beethoven through Dvorjak. I wanted to be a composer some day, and tried to understand what was happening in the little black dots peppering the pages. Why did they move me when I played them? What mechanism caused this? How could I learn to "speak" the language rather than just "parrot" the language? I spent many hours trying to improvise and experiment with what I perceived to be the concepts embedded in the music. Of course, my piano teacher did not approve of the "undisciplined" freeform improvising. Then one summer (I was about 13) the world expanded. I was already exposing myself to things like Mahler, Sousa, Wagner, Ives, Bartok, Teleman, etc. My friend brought over a YES album (Relayer) with a song on the first side called Gates of Delerium that goes on for 22 minutes. It blew my mind! For me, it was an example of contemporary music with the sweeping granduer of the music I had studied and loved. I bought his copy on the spot. Then, a few days later, I saw on a little black and white television this guy playing the electric bass with an unbelievable fluent virtuoustic precision with another guy playing an electronic keyboard. They were having a musical conversation that obviously was being improvised. I cought the name of the bass player- Stanley Clark. Later I bought his album. Eventually I found out the name of the keyboardist- Chick Corea. When I played my first "Return to Forever" album at home, my parents said it was a cheap imitation of "Jesus Christ Superstar". I don't know where that came from. I think they were afraid i'd be debased by it. Which I was. Then I started listening to all the jazz I could get my hands on. Whereas my focus classically unfolded chronologically, my focus in jazz went in reverse starting with fusion back through cool then bop and finally swing. I never really bonded with Dixieland. As soon as I could get a job as a bus boy at Howard Johnson's I started saving money to get my first Fender Rhoades electric piano. At this point I lost my interest in seriously perfecting classical piano pieces, where you practice the same thing for hours everyday for a year, and then go out and play it at a recital. Like an amoeba, I continue to expand. I've even learned to appreciate country music! -rob