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Date:         Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:54:01 -0500
From: "L-Soft list server at AMERICAN.EDU (1.8b)"
              <LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      File: "EMUSIC-L LOG9610D"
To: Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Status: O

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:24:03 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Joe McMahon <mcmahon@CLARK.NET>
Subject:      Attempted subversion of the list
Comments: To: synth-l <synth-l@american.edu>

Two things to say:

1) Discussing etymology and word usage *is* off topic, I agree; sometimes
   off-topic stuff leads into fruitful territory, sometimes it doesn't.
   I would asses this one as a "not". Had this gone more than a few days, I
   would have moved to shut it down as off-topic.

2) However.
   Disliking what he says does NOT give anyone the right to attempt to
   force John off the list. Someone - who, I may or may not be able to find
   out - has attempted to forge mail from him to do an unsubscribe. This was
   stopped by the fact that LISTSERV has been set up to confirm all such
   requests with the supposed originator.

Again, I probably won't be able to find out *who* was responsible; I will,
however, state that I will try to find out, and that if I do, I will report
this incident to your local system administrator. This kind of thing is
taken pretty seriously most places.

NOBODY has the right to censor based on presentation, though you have the right
to shun the poster, criticize him or her privately, and to not read his or
her mail.

If you want to impose a local "bad-word" filter, I can point Unix users to a
couple of different methods. There will be no central censorship of HOW
anything is said; Mike and I will continue to attempt to keep WHAT is talked
about on-track, when we can.

Mike and I both have paying jobs which we have to hold down and cannot monitor
content 24 hours a day. If someone wants to pay me my current salary to do so,
I'll certainly consider the offer. :)

 --- Joe M.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:20:56 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Matt Mauritz <mauritz@HOLLY.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: You know what I like...
In-Reply-To:  <199610201600.RAA11830@www.dma.be>

I was reading over the list of music tastes and just wanted to include
mine in as well.  Question?  Does anyone know about a song composed by
Air Liquide that is on wax but not on cd?  Unfortunately, I do not know
the name of the song but it has certain words in it that I remember, such
as; "..A trillion drops of mercury falling from your eyes, like lava,
like lava..."  I know this is not much to go on, but if anyone finds this
even the slightest bit recognizable, I would greatly appreciate some
help finding out what the rest of it is.

Thanks,
Matt

Opus III, both albums, "Guru Mother" and "Mind Fruit"
Aphex Twin, Classic album, "Polynomial C"
Air Liquide, Red, "Little Fluffy Clouds"
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:03:07 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         tomy <tomy@DMA.BE>
Subject:      Re: You know what I like...

I don't know if this track is available on vinyl but i do know the name of
the song:
AIR LIQIUDE with LIQIUD AIR.


At 09:20 22/10/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I was reading over the list of music tastes and just wanted to include
>mine in as well.  Question?  Does anyone know about a song composed by
>Air Liquide that is on wax but not on cd?  Unfortunately, I do not know
>the name of the song but it has certain words in it that I remember, such
>as; "..A trillion drops of mercury falling from your eyes, like lava,
>like lava..."  I know this is not much to go on, but if anyone finds this
>even the slightest bit recognizable, I would greatly appreciate some
>help finding out what the rest of it is.
>
my taste:
Future Sound Of London:Cascade
Leftfield:Song of life
Schooly D:Gucci Time
Robert Owens:i'll be your friend
Phuture:Slam!

greetings,
Tomy
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:22:52 +0100
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nick Rothwell <nick@CASSIEL.COM>
Subject:      A quote about computers in performance

See what you make of this:

        "What I'm here to do is build a natural user interface
         for performers. I try to get the technology out of the
         way. The problem is that electronics engineers and computer
         scientists have a devoutly reductionist view, which is
         deeply inimical to performance, which spills out of
         people spontaneously. Spontaneous people are terribly
         vulnerable to reductionists: the easiest way to destroy a
         performance instantly is to ask the performer to explain
         how they are doing it."

A quote from some eminent high-tech musician perhaps? Peter Gabriel or
Vangelis or someone? Nope, it's Dave Housman, of the R&D department of Jim
Henson's Creature Shop (according to UK Wired, April 1996, which I'm
ashamed to have thumbed through recently).

The puppeteer stuff they do is all about characterisation and performance,
and that is where they see their real creative skills. You might think that
they'd feel threatened by all the CGI imagery that's around these days.
Actually, no: they do CGI in addition to puppets and animatronics, since
their angle is that it's the performance skills and experience of the
puppeteers that are of most merit, not the technology.

Analogies abound IMHO.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:23:32 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: A quote about computers in performance

Hi Nick and others concerned with performance...

> What I'm here to do is build a natural user interface
> for performers.

I'm not sure that there is any such thing, at least notfor the electro-
mechanical devices that man contrives.  (In case you're thinking that's
exclusionist and sexist, consider that technology, and music technology
in particular, does seem to have been mostly a "guy" thing. :-))

> Spontaneous people are terribly
> vulnerable to reductionists: the easiest way to destroy a
> performance instantly is to ask the performer to explain
> how they are doing it.

I can see what Housman means.  But where does this leave some of us who
have already surrendered some of our sponteneity to learn the music
technology we have.  Consider a synth; if your want to move beyond the
presets you have to learn to program it (or at least get patches from
elsewhere and learn the right combination of button-presses to do a
MIDI SysEx dump into it).  Even if you have already done this, and on
another occasion just turn the thing on and play it, you still have
the knowledge of your programming, which, I can't help feeling, will
still affect what you do.

A question like "How did you do that?" might elicit several responses.
One person might interpret it as a question about about technique; another
as a question about music theory (informing the composition or improvisation).
Still another might regard it as a metaphysical conundrum.

Still, if what Housman means is that thinking about a performance too much
can focus the performer's mind such that that level of sponteneity can
never again be reached, he is right.  I can play Ashanti bell and drum
patterns well, and I know how that music should feel despite my lacking
a cultural context (I'm a white Australian playing traditional Ghanaian
music in Melbourne!).  But if you ask me how I do it, I can't exactly
tell you.  In fact, if I think about it while I'm playing it, my playing
can become very stilted.  The "feel" comes from having toured with Ghanaian
musicians for two months a few years ago.  About half way through the tour,
I began to "get it" and left forever the need to think to rigidly about
how the notes line up.

That's not an electronic music example, but I'm sure others can provide one
or two.

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://Still_coming_but_really_close_now!
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:50:47 -0400
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         "Peter J. Bullaudy" <PETERQCI@AOL.COM>
Subject:      WAV if you know...

Hello List,

I want to be able to play .WAV files throught my system.  I have an MPU-401
card from midi quest.  I've heard that I can play them through it, but I need
drivers for it. (I don't own a blaster type card at the moment)  Any
suggestions,  drivers or info to help me accomplish this?

Thanks,
Peter B.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:50:48 -0600
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Ed Forner <FORNER@MACALESTER.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A quote about computers in performance
In-Reply-To:  "Your message dated Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:23:32 +1000"
              <01IB0OZFDV6Q8WXOXG@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>

> Hi Nick and others concerned with performance...
>
> > What I'm here to do is build a natural user interface
> > for performers.
>
> I'm not sure that there is any such thing, at least not for the electro-
> mechanical devices that man contrives.

big snip

do not think there is such a piece of equipment either...but I do know of
another way to get at this issue, if I understand what is intended by "Natural
user interface". Perhaps that needs some further explanation.

Morton Subotnick has developed ways of implanting "flags" of various kinds,
including programming which allows a computer line to follow tempo of a live
group, allowing the computer to function (close to) the way a live performer
would.

My hope is that others on the list could explain the process better than I, but
I can try if you want. OR, you can check the information contained on the
CD-ROM "All My Hummingbirds have Alibis".

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ Ed Forner                         Macalester College Music Department +
+ forner@macalester.edu             voice (612) 696-6189                +
+                         St. Paul, MN, 55105                           +
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Oct 1996 13:58:08 -0700
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         Nathanael W Berry <nwberry@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: A quote about computers in performance

>> What I'm here to do is build a natural user interface
>> for performers.
>
>I'm not sure that there is any such thing, at least notfor the electro-
>mechanical devices that man contrives.

        To perform beyond our physical boundries always seems to require
some acceptance of limited scope, loss of spontaneity, and un-naturalness.
Even "natural" performances of voice and movement are usually separated (ie
not performed by a single individual concurrently). Our brains (well, most
people's I suspect ;) are capable of contriving images far beyond our
natural abilities. Those who can create spontaneously, then transcend the
limitations of technology (in the broad sense) to provide others a glimpse
of their creations are imho true artists. I believe this whether or not I
find the "art" pleasing. Sometimes understanding the vision of the "artist"
who created the work is necessary [and sometimes, I just don't get it :].
        Maybe the interface being sought after is a less un-natural
interface, at least for some (possibly limited) population of performers.

>> Spontaneous people are terribly
>> vulnerable to reductionists: the easiest way to destroy a
>> performance instantly is to ask the performer to explain
>> how they are doing it.
>
        A better question to ask, maybe more revealing, is WHY are they
doing it. Many times a team of performing artists (be it two or more) create
art beyond the capabilities of the individual artists in the team [ or was
that star trek ? :) ]. For someone who is truely frustrated by but wants
desperately to take advantage of technology, finding an artistic (maybe not
so spontaneous) partner who can make the technology connection is important.
Maybe the original poster is such a person!
       Do to the very nature of spontaneity and individual expression, I
find it hard to believe that anyone can design a user interface that
satisfies everyone's definition of "natural". Studying the performer(s), the
performance, and understanding the desired effect of incorporating
technology (I hope it is not being added for technologies sake!) should
provide a starting point for system definition.

Nate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Oct 1996 07:14:01 +1000
Reply-To:     Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
Sender:       Electronic Music Discussion List <EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU>
From:         David Rodger <MUSDR@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: A quote about computers in performance

Hi Nathaniel,
thanks for a most thoughtful reply.

>     Do [sic] to the very nature of spontaneity and individual expression, I
> find it hard to believe that anyone can design a user interface that
> satisfies everyone's definition of "natural".

Perhaps.  This reminds me of how often people seem to think that a deeply
(and culturally) entrenched practice is "natural".  Reading and writing,
for example.  It is clear, though, that certain people develop (rather than
just 'have') an affinity with certain technologies or practices, even
ubiquitous ones.  I suspect that what Nick meant (and he can confrim or
deny this) that he seeks to find a way of working with his technology
which allows the majority of people working with him to participate in
those practices required for the realisation of his (and their) compositional
goals.

Regards, David
musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au
http://really_close_now!

