========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:08:33 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Anne Caroline Grant Subject: Fast Tracker2 Help In-Reply-To: <199612052109.VAA01287@beaufort.sfu.ca> Hi, I'm trying to learn how to use sequencers/trackers, specifically FT2, but I'm pretty new to it all. Does anyone know of any good introductory guides, starting at a pretty basic level, that I could get hold of to help?. Thanks, Stewart. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:08:27 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robby D Subject: Re: HD recording question there are several approaches...For IBM Compat PC's there is a sound forge program that is great for converting and processing sound fles, it costs about $300...There is also a shareware program called "Cool Edit" that can do simple conversions...To download it for free, go to my web site: www.loop.com/~mcm On my web site there is a link to a Sound Utilities page, follow my link. I use 2 Yamaha CBX-D5 processors with Cubase Audio to do hard drive recording on the PC, it is totally pro and 1/10 the cost of ProTools. Once you edit your sound files, save them as wave files, then encode them to RealAudio with the RealAudio Encoder (www.realaudio.com) At 01:09 PM 12/5/96 -0800, you wrote: >Hi there.. this is bordering on the off-topic line, I think, but I'm >getting sort of desparate for answers. I'm currently working on a >project at my university that involves digitizing tapes of lectures and >broadcasting them via the web (uggh.). The broadcasting part I can deal >with, but the digitizing, on a budget, is going to be more tricky. I >need a card that has about 16 inputs, because we will be digitizing about >300 lectures per week, and we need to do it fast. The other trick is >that we certainly can't afford Pro Tools (the system would run upwards of >$20000 CDN including computer). > >So far, I've found a card by National Instruments that should do the >trick. It has 16 analog inputs and can handle a pretty broad bandwidth. >Quality is not overly important (the tapes are pretty bad themselves, and >web streaming audio is even worse - 8bit 11kHz mono will be the final >product). The problem is that I have no idea what format the data will >be landing on the hard disk in. > >Basically, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience in this sort of >thing, or with National Instruments in particular. Another thing that we >will need is batch processing software for doing track-splitting and >sample rate conversions. Oh yeah, the only other requirement is that it >is Mac-based, seeing as how Apple is actually paying my wages this time... > >Thanx a lot... > >TTYL >DaveR > > ________________________________________________________ > Dave Rosborough > Web Designer, Database junkie > Apple Education Consultants Program @ SFU > Sales @ SFU Microcomputer Store - 291-3098 > drosboro@sfu.ca > http://www.educ.sfu.ca/people/davidr/ > ________________________________________________________ > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 17:10:07 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Harlan Subject: stand-alone MIDI sequencer? I'm wondering if anybody out there is using or knows about a cheap stand-alone piece of MIDI hardware that I can use to store and dump sysex messages to my other MIDI gear in a gig situation. I'm thinking of something that might have 64 nameable locations to store various sysex dumps to reconfigure my other equipment in a hurry--not necessarily during a tune, though. It doesn't have to be easy to program since I wouldn't be doing any real sequencing on it, just storing and dumping sysex. Ideally, I'd like to find something like this on the used market for $100 or less. I've considered picking up an old PC, a 286 for example, to use with some cheap or freeware sequencing program for this purpose, but I'd much rather just have a small, dedicated piece of MIDI hardware. Anybody? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:48:21 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Harlan Subject: Stand-alone MIDI sequencer? I'm wondering if anybody out there is using or knows about a cheap stand-alone piece of MIDI hardware that I can use to store and dump sysex messages to my other MIDI gear in a gig situation. I'm thinking of something that might have 64 nameable locations to store various sysex dumps to reconfigure my other equipment in a hurry--not necessarily during a tune, though. It doesn't have to be easy to program since I wouldn't be doing any real sequencing on it, just storing and dumping sysex. Ideally, I'd like to find something like this on the used market for $100 or less. I've considered picking up an old PC, a 286 for example, to use with some cheap or freeware sequencing program for this purpose, but I'd much rather just have a small, dedicated piece of MIDI hardware. Anybody? P.S. I first posted this by *sending* to EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU, and I got a message that it was not deliverable. So this is the 2nd try--this time I *replied* to a previous post (on jazz), changed the subject line, and sent it. What did I do wrong? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 22:09:04 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robby D Subject: HD Recording >Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 11:09:42 >To: Electronic Music Discussion List >From: Robby D >Subject: Re: HD recording question > >There are several approaches...For IBM Compat PC's there is a sound forge >program that is great for converting and processing sound fles, it costs about >$300...There is also a shareware program called "Cool Edit" that can do simple conversions...To download it for free, go to my web site: > > www.loop.com/~mcm > >On my web site there is a link to a Sound Utilities page, follow my link. > >I use 2 Yamaha CBX-D5 processors with Cubase Audio to do hard drive recording >on the PC, it is totally pro and 1/10 the cost of ProTools. Once you edit your sound files, save them as wave files, then encode them to RealAudio with the RealAudio Encoder (www.realaudio.com) > > > >At 01:09 PM 12/5/96 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi there.. this is bordering on the off-topic line, I think, but I'm >>getting sort of desparate for answers. I'm currently working on a >>project at my university that involves digitizing tapes of lectures and >>broadcasting them via the web (uggh.). The broadcasting part I can deal >>with, but the digitizing, on a budget, is going to be more tricky. I >>need a card that has about 16 inputs, because we will be digitizing about >>300 lectures per week, and we need to do it fast. The other trick is >>that we certainly can't afford Pro Tools (the system would run upwards of >>$20000 CDN including computer). >> >>So far, I've found a card by National Instruments that should do the >>trick. It has 16 analog inputs and can handle a pretty broad bandwidth. >>Quality is not overly important (the tapes are pretty bad themselves, and >>web streaming audio is even worse - 8bit 11kHz mono will be the final >>product). The problem is that I have no idea what format the data will >>be landing on the hard disk in. >> >>Basically, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience in this sort of >>thing, or with National Instruments in particular. Another thing that we >>will need is batch processing software for doing track-splitting and >>sample rate conversions. Oh yeah, the only other requirement is that it >>is Mac-based, seeing as how Apple is actually paying my wages this time... >> >>Thanx a lot... >> >>TTYL >>DaveR >> >> ________________________________________________________ >> Dave Rosborough >> Web Designer, Database junkie >> Apple Education Consultants Program @ SFU >> Sales @ SFU Microcomputer Store - 291-3098 >> drosboro@sfu.ca >> http://www.educ.sfu.ca/people/davidr/ >> ________________________________________________________ >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:55:25 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Anne Caroline Grant Subject: Fast Tracker2 Help Hi, I'm trying to learn how to use sequencers/trackers, specifically FT2, but I'm pretty new to it all. Does anyone know of any good introductory guides, starting at a pretty basic level, that I could get hold of to help?. Thanks, Stewart. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:26:49 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Anne Caroline Grant Subject: Fast Tracker2 Help Hi all, Im trying to learn how to use sequencers/trackers, in particular FT2, but I'm pretty new to it all. Does anyone know of any good introductory guides, starting at a pretty basic level, that I could get hold of to help?. Thanks - Stewart. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 22:26:17 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Carl Osterly Subject: Re: Fast Tracker2 Help At 19:08 7/12/96 +1100, you wrote: >Hi, I'm trying to learn how to use sequencers/trackers, specifically FT2, >but I'm pretty new to it all. Does anyone know of any good introductory >guides, starting at a pretty basic level, that I could get hold of to help?. >Thanks, Stewart. > > Hi Stewart, A good place to start is the Maz's Sound Tools web site. This has a comprehensive list of shareware trackers, sample editors, rippers and mod players. The latest release of Fasttracker 2 (2.06?) should include a DOC file that describes most of the common funtions availiable. For more detailed help, you may need to start hanging around the Soundblaster or MOD music related newsgroups. Sample trackers as a general rule don't include detailed documenation. You can find Maz's Sound Tools at: http://www.th-zwickau.de/~maz/ Good luck! Regards, Carl Osterly Support Technician for IBM Internet Australia Work Email: costerly@vnet.ibm.com Home: carl_osterly@ibm.net Web Site: http://www.au.ibm.net/computalearn/nexus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 23:56:21 -0500 Reply-To: brittont@rbdc.rbdc.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Britton Subject: Re: What about using computer-grade data tapes in your DAT Jeff Maverickjr wrote: > > I hope this made it to everyone in the group..... > > >About 50 percents of my DAT-tapes are used computer tapes thrown away by our > >company. Data safety is not guaranteed any longer but for music (not as a > >master tape but for demos, cd recording for fun) with error correction they > >are ok. > >And they are normally longer (180 Minutes !!!) > >>Ever encounter any problems? > > my computer retailer said data dats would have "harder" coating and therefore > could damage an audio dat machine's head (and vice versa). Is this nonsense? > chris > ================================================================= > > Chris, > I was told that the difference between a Data-Dat and a regular dat is the > composition of the particles on the tape (made for less drop-out on the data) > I know you can record audio on a data dat, but am not sure if the freq > response is going to be as good as an audio dat (perhaps a wider range?) > > Aslo- Using a data-dat in a dat player should not hurt the player. (think > of those who use a Panasonic 3700 to back-up info on a data-dat from their > Akai dr4 hard disk recorder > > Love the group! > Jeff R. Yo...Guys! An "Audio DAT" is STILL a full-fledged DATA DAT (DAT=Digital Audio Tape) and the frequency response of either tape is dependent on the Analog-to-digital and Digital-to-analog converters and the inherent electronics of the recording system...not the tape. Digital data frequencies are in the millions of bits per second (and "oversampling" means the same info is recorded several times as a safety measure against dropouts.) Unlike audio analog tape where the difference between "normal bias" and "hi-bias" and "metal" tapes shows up in both dynamic range and (often) frequency response, this is not an issue here. The "hardness" of the emulsion of the tape is a silly issue, since all tape heads are made of amazing alloys now since the introduction of metal tape for analog audio. The spinning heads of any DAT recorder can handle any tape made for digital transfer. All DAT recorders/players are digital data recorders. (DAT machines, by the way, are like miniature VHS video tape decks, with a spinning head that swipes "across the grain" on the moving tape laying down its information as a series of these swipes along the plane of the spinning head, not as a constant stream of signal as in a cassette or reel-to-reel tape deck. The same problems inherent in VCR's (dropouts especially...and tracking errors) are inherent in DAT machines by their very nature. This included ADAT, which has been battling it's dropout problems for years. Also, the long-term storage viability of these tapes is still not a settled issue--as it's a new medium--so backups are very extremely important!) If I'm off-kilter about any of this, I'd like to know about it. Otherwise, I hope this information is as useful as I believe it is factual! :) Terry Leigh Britton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 01:03:48 -0500 Reply-To: brittont@rbdc.rbdc.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Britton Subject: Re: stand-alone MIDI sequencer? Peter Harlan wrote: > > I'm wondering if anybody out there is using or knows about a cheap > stand-alone piece of MIDI hardware that I can use to store and > dump sysex messages to my other MIDI gear in a gig situation. > > I'm thinking of something that might have 64 nameable locations > to store various sysex dumps to reconfigure my other equipment in > a hurry--not necessarily during a tune, though. It doesn't have to > be easy to program since I wouldn't be doing any real sequencing on > it, just storing and dumping sysex. Ideally, I'd like to find > something like this on the used market for $100 or less. > > I've considered picking up an old PC, a 286 for example, to use with > some cheap or freeware sequencing program for this purpose, but I'd > much rather just have a small, dedicated piece of MIDI hardware. > > Anybody? Peter: I use an old Kawai Q-80 that I picked up in a pawn shop for exactly $100 (be prepared to haggle, though). It can hold several sysex dumps in its (somewhat limited) memory at a time, and has a built-in disk drive that loads pretty quickly. It is a dedicated hardware sequencer, so it can also record sysex messages in a stream in record-mode. Or, you can opt to use the several sysex-dedicated transmit/receive file locations on board. These can hold a huge number of smaller sysex messages, and are name-able. Kawai probably still has on hand the upgrade kit ($200) that adds memory and the number of events it can store, fully IBM-compatible disk driver software (the original is readible by IBM drives, and is double density only), so you can read in general-midi files. I will probably never upgrade, though. I recently recorded and produced Matthew Foster's keyboard album (recorded live on a Kurzweil PC-88 to the Kawai Q-80!), and it never ran out of notes on me. More memory would be nice, though, so I could load more tunes in for "jukebox" playback. BTW, it's a 32 track sequencer into 16 MIDI channels. The only other current manufacturer of a dedicated hardware sequencer is Roland, but there are plenty of used ones of various brands around (albiet mostly unsupported now). BTW #2--most pawn shop personnel are clueless about what these things are and what they do, so you can pretty much simply squawk "NO WAY!" at whatever price they have marked and talk them down to the $100 to $150 range. I often ALSO call the manufacturer's themselves for a "from the horse's mouth" ballpark quote about the present-day street value of their older equipment, and then wave that information in the salesman's face for a few minutes till he/she passes out or gives me my price. You can even buy a used wavestation this way. I understand that this is not the usual forum for hardware issues, but I didn't feel like chasing this fellow down on the other forum, since I don't subscribe to that one yet. Sorry, topic cops. I promise a post proliferating aesthetics and compositional philosophies at another time. Terry Leigh Britton ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:28:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: Re[2]: What about using computer-grade data tapes in your DA Comments: To: brittont@rbdc.rbdc.com Terry Leigh Britton said "Also, the long-term storage viability of these tapes is still not a settled issue--as it's a new medium--so backups are very extremely important!" The Library of Congress does not approve DAT tape as an archival medium. Their recomendations are a little frustrating, analogue reel to reel or beta hifi, but those two do seem to hold up over time. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:01:37 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: stand-alone MIDI sequencer? In-Reply-To: <32ABABC4.553C@mail.rbdc.com> from "Terry Britton" at Dec 9, 96 01:03:48 am Terry Britton writes-- > >I understand that this is not the usual forum for hardware issues, but I >didn't feel like chasing this fellow down on the other forum, since I >don't subscribe to that one yet. Sorry, topic cops. I promise a post >proliferating aesthetics and compositional philosophies at another time. Metlay glowers at the screen for a moment, then reaches into his pocket and draws out a plastic pog shooter. One side of the disc is inscribed "KILL HIM" and the other says "IGNORE HIM". Metlay flips the pog like a coin, catches it, and slaps it onto his wrist, then takes a peek. "Drat," he mutters. "Oh well, maybe next time." He deletes the insincere apology filtered through a backhanded slap at the list's subject matter, and moves on.... mike (bad cop) -- "[sarcasm on] I'd rather have clay than blocks." (Eirikur on modular synths) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:05:58 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nathanael W Berry Subject: Re: What about using computer-grade data tapes in your DAT >An "Audio DAT" is STILL a full-fledged DATA DAT (DAT=Digital Audio Tape) >and the frequency response of either tape is dependent on the >Analog-to-digital and Digital-to-analog converters and the inherent >electronics of the recording system...not the tape. Digital data >frequencies are in the millions of bits per second (and "oversampling" >means the same info is recorded several times as a safety measure >against dropouts.) Unlike audio analog tape where the difference between >"normal bias" and "hi-bias" and "metal" tapes shows up in both dynamic >range and (often) frequency response, this is not an issue here. I am not an expert, but I believe that there are several methods of depositing the magnetic medium on a tape. One method is to sputter the medium (and is cheaper), another produces a more consistant magnetic layer. This second method is usually used for "premium data" and suggested audio applications. I am remembering this from years ago so cant remember the process names. The sputtered approach is more likely (these are probabilities folks - may not happen to you) to have drop-outs. I have not researched the audio recording format, but digital data is often stored with some type of error correcting information. Due to timing issues, digital audio may not have the benefit of error correction. [Remember - the format was devised in the days when cheap fast power was neither as fast or as cheap!]. This would be why the premium tapes are suggested - at least for magnetic reasons. Oversampling usually does not mean writing multiple copies of the data to tape. The process of oversampling is a frequency domain trick to reduce the requirements of the output "noise" shaping filters. Without oversampling, the high frequency cutoff filter (the filter is low pass) would have to be very sharp. Sharp filters often create their own waveform effecting problems, and are quite expensive to build. By "oversampling", the waveform is recreated at a much higher frequency (for example... 8x :). A "copy" of this waveform appears at various locations in the freqency domain. The space between these copies is essentially quiet. One of these copies appears at the 0 - 20khz range. The audio filter can now be a "soft knee" filter, with little impact of the "original" signal, and it is fairly inexpensive. To throw in a bit of confusion, oversampling is also used as marketing hype to cover up the fact that a device may be using only one converter for two (or multiple) channels. The converter must then run twice (or more) as fast to keep up with the audio data. When the DAC was of significant expense in devices (early CD players for example) this technique was used as a cost cutting measure. The results are not necessarily different - there are too many design variables for any one type to be significantly better than another. > >The "hardness" of the emulsion of the tape is a silly issue, since all >tape heads are made of amazing alloys now since the introduction of >metal tape for analog audio. The spinning heads of any DAT recorder can >handle any tape made for digital transfer. All DAT recorders/players are >digital data recorders. The hardness of the emulsion is more likely to effect the wear of the tape than on the tape head for any approved DAT tape. I have seen data tapes (in extended wear testing) that could literally be seen through when held up to the light. Tape reformulations extended the usefull life of the tape by a factor of three. These were data, not audio applications - with error correction (very) active. A "softer" emultion may be more likely to deposit magnetic particles in the deck (on heads, rollers, wipers, drive motors, etc.) - rather than keeping them on the tape. I dont have any experience with DAT tapes, so the information is generic digital tape info. Feel free to point out any non-applicable or incorrect information. Nate ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:31:52 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: World's First (and best) Music Video? Frederick Hartline writes: < Walt Disney exposed the world to Stravinsky's work a long long time ago thru his (widely received) cartoon epic Fantasia. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 16:07:41 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Wendt, Scott R" Subject: Re: Fast Tracker2 Help Unsubscribe >---------- >From: Carl Osterly[SMTP:carl_osterly@IBM.NET] >Sent: Monday, December 09, 1996 5:26 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L >Subject: Re: Fast Tracker2 Help > >At 19:08 7/12/96 +1100, you wrote: >>Hi, I'm trying to learn how to use sequencers/trackers, specifically FT2, >>but I'm pretty new to it all. Does anyone know of any good introductory >>guides, starting at a pretty basic level, that I could get hold of to help?. >>Thanks, Stewart. >> >> > >Hi Stewart, > >A good place to start is the Maz's Sound Tools web site. This has a >comprehensive list of shareware trackers, sample editors, rippers and mod >players. The latest release of Fasttracker 2 (2.06?) should include a DOC >file that describes most of the common funtions availiable. > >For more detailed help, you may need to start hanging around the >Soundblaster or MOD music related newsgroups. Sample trackers as a >general rule don't include detailed documenation. > >You can find Maz's Sound Tools at: http://www.th-zwickau.de/~maz/ > >Good luck! > >Regards, > >Carl Osterly >Support Technician for IBM Internet Australia > >Work Email: costerly@vnet.ibm.com >Home: carl_osterly@ibm.net >Web Site: http://www.au.ibm.net/computalearn/nexus > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:20:51 -0500 Reply-To: brittont@rbdc.rbdc.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Britton Subject: Re: stand-alone MIDI sequencer? Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City wrote: > > Terry Britton writes-- > > > >I understand that this is not the usual forum for hardware issues, but I > >didn't feel like chasing this fellow down on the other forum, since I > >don't subscribe to that one yet. Sorry, topic cops. I promise a post > >proliferating aesthetics and compositional philosophies at another time. > > Metlay glowers at the screen for a moment, then reaches into his pocket > and draws out a plastic pog shooter. One side of the disc is inscribed > "KILL HIM" and the other says "IGNORE HIM". > > Metlay flips the pog like a coin, catches it, and slaps it onto his wrist, > then takes a peek. > > "Drat," he mutters. "Oh well, maybe next time." He deletes the insincere > apology filtered through a backhanded slap at the list's subject matter, > and moves on.... > > mike > (bad cop) > > -- > "[sarcasm on] I'd rather have clay than blocks." (Eirikur on modular synths) > =========================================================================== > Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA > = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = > CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 Sorry. Terry Leigh Britton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TECH SUPPORT ANSWER OF THE WEEK: "You can not afraid to do it, because MIDI is optocoupled. Until no message is actually transmitted, there shouldn't be no unexpected effect too, because the current loop is unactive at idle time (take care on the 'active sensing')." Is this a thing of beauty or WHAT? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:14:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Justin Lineberry Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Please Remove me from your e-Mailing list. -SUITCASE M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:51:42 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeffrey Seitz <01jlseitz@BSU.EDU> Subject: Graduate Opportunities The Music Engineering Technology Studios (MET Studios) of Ball State University, Muncie, IN announces: Masters Assistantships in Music Technology, Computer Music, and Recording Technology. Doctoral Fellowships in ElectroAcoustic Composition and Music Technology. Contact Dr. Cleve Scott (317)285-5537 (voice) (317)285-8768 (fax) 00clscott@bsuvc.bsu.edu http://www.cs.bsu.edu/homepages/clscott/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joel GASPI Subject: Re : UNSUBSCRIBE Dans un courrier date du 13/12/1996 00:00:25, vous avez ecrit : << EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU >>