========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:20:09 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Emiliano Canal Subject: Synths Sorry if there's something that I don't understand, but, are you sure you can discuss electronic music without naming any synth? What are we discussing? What "personal aesthetics" means? (no offense) Is this list just for almost metaphysical discussion? > I'd like to remind folks that for-sale items should go to SYNTH-L and > not EMUSIC-L. Tnoy, you know about this, because I've told you before. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- This thread should move to SYNTH-L, please. People who are worried that > they are being denied a forum for talking about gear and tweaks should > remember that a whole mailing list exists for the subject, and that it > exists quite deliberately and in parallel with EMUSIC-L for the very > purpose of letting EMUSIC-L concentrate on other things. And far from > being some kind of purgatory or dumping ground, SYNTH-L is at least > as vital and interesting as EMUSIC-L (and has a wider audience, too). > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:48:24 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment? Hi All, An excellent text and one of my favorites is Manning's Electronic and Computer Music. The second edition covers from last century to present. Lots of good stories about emusic pioneers. Happy 1997 to All Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:48:56 -0400 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jacky Schreiber Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment Hello listmembers, ending a substantial period of silence, I would like to develop on the recently referred threads of emusic aesthetics and computer-mediated synthesis and/or composition. Given the limitation that I am completely outside the medium of discussion and relations with other musicians/composers, I currently endure a solo tour-de-force to extend my knowledge (both by learning and reading whatever I can and by experimentation) of music theory up to the level required to have a proper understanding of the concepts underlying this century's music methodologies. You might take a look at the Collected Writings of Brian Ferneyhough, published by Harwood Academic Publishers. Ferneyhough is one of the leaders of the European "New Complexity" movement, even though he has been living in San Diego for several years. You might want to brush up on some Adorno before you tackle this though. A very good beginning set music set theory book is by Joseph Straus. Giving your strong math background, this book may be a little obvious for you - it was intended for undergraduate level theory classes. Another book I personally really like is "Composition with Pitch Classes" by Robert Morris (Yale U. Press) You also might want to lurk on the Algorhythmic composition list. Its called algocomp. Sorry, I don't have the subscription info in front of me, but I'm sure can find it easily enough with a little digging. -Peter -----------------------------------------------------------------------___________________________________ For those interested in the algocomp list here's how to... Mail to majordomo@serial.music.uiowa.edu (no subject) with the body of the message saying subscribe algo-comp cheers Jacky Schreiber-------->jackysch@ven.net http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1094 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BT,`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`#@!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```%0`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!%;&5C=')O;FEC($UU M``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````%@```$5-55-)0RU,0$%- M15))0T%.+D5$50````,`%0P!`````P#^#P8````>``$P`0```",````G16QE M8W1R;VYI8R!-=7-I8R!$:7-C=7-S:6]N($QI`!X,`0````4```!33510```` M`!X`'PP!````$0```&IA8VMY)S=&5M`H,S=P+D!Q,"@'T*@ C/"=D[\18/,C4U`H * M@0VQ"V! ;F-AL7%%$+\AP62&5L?16@(!G0$\ '@ ;0!)!S%"P@"?!D"X!G M(&&P('-U8A/ `'!T!S&,(' &<01P(&]F(- 3`Q )\&-E(#!)('=-"&!L(? 9 MT&ME"H5TRQ]@#;!V'S!O<"(``Z!P=&AE(!80(I ",&QZ>2419@20%A$DT180 M8:YD!" B$1/@=0"08R"PMP>0).$A4&,$( !P9 J%D06@;7!U$]!R+0> S2!P M81/0(?!S>0(P)/#;`) G\R\%L2BR;P"0(5#-`B N"H4KK$=I)% DQ/T9T&TK M0"F *V$DT2F (L%\86THHR)@$] E@0A@=.\`D VP)-,I0G4NP"(1('#_!/ G M$ "0`B *A2@1)1$+8/\K4@0@`_ DX"(`).$%P"<#^P `C MXRG?(@(G!"3A!; ED'4DD"0!CRU3)$(*A180<75I)@/_ M'V 1@"10(+$<$2&A/M @8/\@`2$A(',B$23B!: B@04P_P0@0>,E@"""). $ M`"A&)5'Y"'!Y)P0@)P0'@"3@!'"5%9%G")!S*Y8\8QG0-' ^*ZQ9"& P0&EG M/F@%0 &0(W @L16@;VM_(+!),23Q"% ?0!Q1)A%7;P40(5 9$":C0@%!/" -L"VP)T!0387U M$: N3#H@*D$"("4`0L3O"H4YP4("0K9%"'!!D0.1+B('P@A0+P)X*T!Y(OTP M0&\D4#TR(#$M%%"#)/'_$8 $(!_P"?!1IBT`(((+@.D&`B!$")!G'V W82#0 MNSNR(7%Y.=%/X4BX=R$Q^2/R8G(G$#,0/N$DL38P^P> "H5!1G $H%J1#< % ML,TE`'E(P0&08VLB8$1C\U6%*YU!(#O!)9!8,"'A^Q_P1K!N.@,1L3X%8+(^ M=:\&X$GA*D$YD4HT<7 S$/Q3=%C@)Q KEBSQ(()=`?]8@6,P`B @H # .6)= M40G _PA@(& @,%VS8@,`P&'A28/W*T E<%$A8E= "& $(#=A^PJ%70(M4,!: M$@0@"X X$M\F$5AB0>,)P": =2F!/W3?/F9'@%9 $;!/X4$XH#-#WV(""H4B MT"&A-C!N!T E@W=NDR-24,(B4^(K)3+44/\K0!%P2G!L9%2 .9$(`!_Q.G0* MA4T%L 40!" H66L'0"4`54_P4!80!! INT??(+!L-C!9S0I 23@[T\2*ND??,BLD9P;B<% M0$$#).(@XO\%`RX""X "$%>"`U%:43WBVR*@"H5B*/ BP"1).)Z5A]S5?$6$$611E#[ M!^ D`"Z/L"NL';\<-(/_?84!30MP:\$?8 J%`,!JMP6P1G $8$ T@06PJ/A%R:)"A<82#A:M^8`3W ,N,DX@;@9"]Q0M3Y M!X%S83D!G.!$(BNLFB37?'5G(G=A+8Y#/&1S-T#U)H!D<_(^EM^7ZY9OA*=O M*$8D\" !*ZQ*75$ED%.?$7 6$)\Q*2"(E3YJIE+I!/!H0"T1+DQPIH"Y?.0!Z@"M!1M$HL2]Z\$CD;R\9,#DTHO^AOQS?OZO_HE^MKZZ_ MF$45,0"S< ````,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! ```#T``0````4```!213H@`````+M_ ` end ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:17:59 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefano Bona Subject: Help! Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2 ? Help! Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2 ? Thanks Stefano ---------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Stefano Bona Dipartimento di Agronomia Ambientale e Produzioni Vegetali AGRIPOLIS - Facolta' di Agraria - Universita' di Padova Via Romea n. 16 - 35020 Legnaro (PD) - Italy Tel. +39.49.8272831 Fax. +39.49.8272839 e-mail sbona@agripolis.unipd.it --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:46:01 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Harmonics. In-Reply-To: <32CDDCE8.62F1@voy.net> from "Michael Millard" at Jan 3, 97 11:30:32 pm Michael Millard writes-- > >I have listened to many different compositions where the >texture, pitch, and feel of a piece of music seemed to have a >much different feel from instrument to instrument. I have >played with this quite a bit using MIDI to assign various >sounds to a track to feel the differance given sounds >produced. I am curious to know just how much harmonics can >be varied with a true Synth and if it has been studied in >terms of general effect? Can we add subtle moods to a song >intentionally by harmonics modifications? Is it the >harmonics that are playing the major part or something else? This launched a dandy discussion at the communal dinner table last night. On the one hand, there was some discussion of how certain high harmonics can cause irritation or fear, and how some low frequencies can produce physical effects (usually at high volumes). But as for tweaking harmonics at all, whether for the purpose of altering feelings or anything else, you're really talking about working with additive synthesis. All types of sound synthesis actually work with the harmonics of sound waves in some form or another, but only additive synthesizers let you get in and mess with individual partials directly. There have been a few successful additive machines in the recent history of emusic, including the Crumar GDS, the DKI Synergy/MuLogix Slave32, the Kurzweil K150, and the Kawai K5. The latter, the most popular but least tweakable of the additive boxes, as the ancestor of the new K5000 series. mike -- "I'm going through a phase where I'm learning how much I don't know, and I don't want to say anything unless it A. is correct and B. contributes.... Geez, all the lists would dry up if everyone was in the same phase." (cikira) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 09:04:51 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: EMUSIC-L or SYNTH-L? Take this handy quiz! In-Reply-To: <05242177415865@century.com.ar> from "Emiliano Canal" at Jan 7, 97 02:20:09 am Emiliano Canal writes-- > > Sorry if there's something that I don't understand, but, are you sure you >can discuss electronic music without naming any synth? What are we >discussing? What "personal aesthetics" means? (no offense) Is this list >just for almost metaphysical discussion? It is certainly possible to talk about emusic without ever mentioning specifics, and you could probably do so for weeks without getting bored: technique transcends equipment, or should at least have the ability to do so. However, there's no ban on ever mentioning any synthesizer or other product by name here, as long as it's in the context of a more generalized discussion. What we are trying to avoid is discussion specifically related to specific gear for its own sake. POP QUIZ: Know Your EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L Differences! The following are ten example quotes that might show up on one or the other list. They're followed by my suggestions as to where they belong. Some are obvious, others are more subtle. See how your score compares with mine. 1. "Where can I get patches for my Korg Trinity, and is there a mailing list or Website for users?" 2. "I've been looking into granular synthesis, and have been curious about how to play with it. Can anyone point me to any products that let me play with granular synthesis?" 3. "For sale: Kurzweil 2000, w/PRAM upgrade, sampling board. $500 obo." 4. "I'd like to tell you about how I made my new record, which is now available for sale on Blatherguff Records; there were some techniques used that I think readers will find interesting." 5. "Everybody's been talking about this Stockhausen guy. What makes him so hot?" 6. "I'm just getting started and I'm kind of new on all this soundcard stuff. What should I install in my Pentium? I'm running Win95." 7. "SPERM BANK STOMP by KALA DIN. Now available as a 12" single from Wee-Wee In The Sink Records, only $6 plus shipping. Order from 800-924-2866." 8. "I've been playing with my Korg Wavestation and have been having a lot of fun with the wave sequencing, but after a while, it all gets to sounding the same. Does anyone have any tips on doing something different with it?" 9. "I'm having trouble getting my D-70 to talk to my sequencer ever since I upgraded to a new rev of sequencer software. Can anyone help?" 10. "You guys all seem pretty interested in synths, so I figured I should tell you that Northwest Delaware Music has a great selection of keyboards and MIDI gear at dynamite prices. Call us and find out what great deals you can get." Okay? Here are my answers: 1. SYNTH-L. This post is only of interest to Trinity users, and has no general emusic applicability. A reply posting the relevant information to SYNTH-L would be appropriate. 2. EMUSIC-L. This is pure technique at least at the start, and if people make recommendations as to which products are best, that fits into the topic and provides useful information. Note that this is different than merely asking what synth module is best for a particular style of music; here the emphasis is on the synthesis technique and its capabilities. 3. SYNTH-L. It may be a great price, but that doesn't change where it belongs. ;) Actually, this is the one area in which music stores can post on the list; if a retailer has a single used item for sale in response to a request from someone searching for it, they can post that they have it. But private mail would be much more polite. 4. SYNTH-L. This is self-promotion, but if a regular list member has released an album or tape and wants to talk about it, we don't mind a bit of free publicity in exchange for some useful data on how it was done. The lengthy Team Metlay posts that go up on SYNTH-L once every two years are an example of this. Contrast with #7 below. 5. EMUSIC-L (assuming anyone really cares about this Stockhausen guy :). This one's a giveaway; it's music history and ties in with much of what we discuss here. Note that merely hunting for other fans of current artists is discouraged, unless there's something to be learned in the process. Our policy on "Any other Pearl Jam fans out there?" posts is to ignore them and let them die on their own. 6. SYNTH-L. Discussions of soundcards, if they must happen here at all, rarely center on technique or sonic experimentation and tend to be more nuts-and-bolts, so they're not germane to EMUSIC-L. In fact, there are probably dedicated soundboard lists out there which are even better. 7. Contrast this one with number 4, which at least purports to pass along some useful information. This is a pure ad, and is forbidden on both lists. (By the way, the song title and band name are real, as is the phone number, but you can't order one by calling the other, nor would the owner of the song ever try to advertise here...he knows better.) 8. This one's tricky. The initial gut reaction would be to say SYNTH-L due to its emphasis on the Wavestation, but the techniques of wave sequencing, particularly where they relate to granular synthesis, might lead to something of general enough interest for EMUSIC-L. However, there's no law that says SYNTH-L *can't* have more general synth-tweak topics, so that would be the safe bet. 9. SYNTH-L. Ignoring the fact that upgrading a working sequencer is suicide, any technical questions or problems should be on SYNTH-L. 10. Ads mentioning retailers looking for mail order sales are forbidden on both lists. These people can pay for their advertising if they want it; repeat offenders will be barred from the lists and their postmasters will be notified that they're violating the LISTSERV charter. So how'd you do? Hopefully these examples can help you get a better feel for what goes where. mike -- "I'm going through a phase where I'm learning how much I don't know, and I don't want to say anything unless it A. is correct and B. contributes.... Geez, all the lists would dry up if everyone was in the same phase." (cikira) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:01:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: Re: Brian Ferneyhough Also, do you know if 'Unity Capsule' was released? It spices my curiosity, since it is the piece that builds on Varese's Densite 21.5 as the latter built on traditional solo-flute repertoire. Cassandra's Dream Song, an earlier solo flute piece by B.F. has been released on CD ("New Music Series, vol.2": Neuma 450-72) I have 'Intermedio alla ciaccona' performed by Arditti and it is wonderful (but then, I love string music for scarce number of instrumentalists and Irvine Arditti...) Do you have the one on Etcetera that also has Superscriptio (solo piccolo), La chute d'Icaras (a clarinet concerto) and Mnemosyne (bass flute and tape)? It is Etcetera KTC 1070 There's also an older piece of his, Prometheus that is on CRI (CRI CD 652). It's a wind sextet. As for the 'New Complexity,' have you ever seen a Ferneyhough's score? I have a sample page on a book (from Carceri III) and it is... dense. Denser beyond imaginable. I always wondered what it would sound like. Some strong game with our perception abilities, here. I've seen many. I'm a big fan,in fact I'm a former student of his, even though my own music doesn't sound much like his. One thing that has struck me is how, given all the intellectual complexities, his music still gets me right in the gut. Very dramatic stuff. I'll try to find Ferneyhough's Collected Writings. Thanks for the tip! -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| >-- Saved internet headers (useful for debugging) >Received: from tpone.telepac.pt by mail.ucsd.edu; id UAA02689 sendmail 8.8.3/UC >Received: from mail.telepac.pt (webpac_alt.telepac.pt [194.65.3.36]) by tpone.t >Received: from troilus (cai1_p14.telepac.pt [194.65.16.46]) by mail.telepac.pt >Message-ID: <32D1BB93.2735@mail.telepac.pt> >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 03:57:23 +0100 >From: Paulo Mouat X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Go >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Peter_Mueller@ucsdlibrary.ucsd.edu >Subject: Brian Ferneyhough >Referen >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-as >Content-Transfer-Encodi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:24:16 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Millard ------------2DE45E64FDF2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just recently got a Korg Wavestation SR. I am still very unfamiliar with it. I have found a number of sounds that are really cool when layered with FM sounds from my TG77. Is there a combination of synth technologies that layer more astheticly than others? ------------2DE45E64FDF2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
 I just recently got a Korg Wavestation SR.  I am still very unfamiliar with it.  I have found a number of sounds that are really cool when layered with FM sounds from my TG77.  Is there a combination of synth technologies that layer more astheticly than others? 
------------2DE45E64FDF2-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:38:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Millard Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L or SYNTH-L? ------------24E57A9872E03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Emiliano Canal expressed some confusion recently about the two lists, emusic-l and synth-l. I can understand the confusion but it now seems pretty simple. I usually think about the message before I send it, perhapps that's my problem right? If the message is specific to a type of synth I use Synth-L. If I am sending a message that is general or could be tied to no specific model or type of unit I use Emusic-L. That normally works until the Emusic thread begins to involve specific examples of real world applications of theory or technique. It is at this point that grey areas happen because the thread should move to Synth-L if it stays in the example stage very long. This is only my view of things and although Mike nor Joe has flamed me in at least 3 weeks I could be wrong. Dr. Mike has been very busy so he may have simply passed on the opportunity to leave me ablaze. ------------24E57A9872E03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
 Emiliano Canal expressed some confusion recently about the two lists, emusic-l and synth-l. I can understand the confusion but it now seems pretty simple.  I usually think about the message before I send it, perhapps that's my problem right?  If the message is specific to a type of synth I use Synth-L.  If I am sending a message that is general or could be tied to no specific model or type of unit I use Emusic-L.  That normally works until the Emusic thread begins to involve specific examples of real world applications of theory or technique.  It is at this point that grey areas happen because the thread should move to Synth-L if it stays in the example stage very long.  This is only my view of things and although Mike nor Joe has flamed me in at least 3 weeks I could be wrong.  Dr. Mike has been very busy so he may have simply passed on the opportunity to leave me ablaze. 
------------24E57A9872E03-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:43:38 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Millard Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment? ------------764C1F2D51234 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Timothy Kelly Wrote the following: > > MidiVox > -- > MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. > BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. > > Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. > EM's Editors Choice. > > Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, > Sing Like a Sax? > I have seen adds for these sorts of devices for a pretty long time. Do they actually work well enough to be of any real use besides as a cool toy. I have heard from sources in the past that the transition from voice to midi frequently lost notes and pitch data. Is this still true, in fact was it ever true? Has anyone ever integrated this sort of device into their rigs? ------------764C1F2D51234 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

>          Timothy Kelly Wrote the following:

>    MidiVox
> --
> MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware.
> BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain.

> Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show.
> EM's Editors Choice.

> Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass,
> Sing Like a Sax?

 I have seen adds for these sorts of devices for a pretty long time.  Do they actually work well enough to be of any real use besides as a cool toy.  I have heard from sources in the past that the transition from voice to midi frequently lost notes and pitch data.  Is this still true, in fact was it ever true?  Has anyone ever integrated this sort of device into their rigs?
------------764C1F2D51234-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:58:36 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment HI emusicians, Peter Mueller wrote: > You also might want to lurk on the Algorhythmic composition list. Its I wouldn't. The list still exists, but no one uses it any more. Actually, it's been so long since there was _any_ traffic on this list that I wonder if the moderator (Gary Nelson, Ithink) didn't shut it down. It seems that Opcode's MAX is a good way of implementing algorithmic composition for so many people that much of the discussion of that which used to take place on the algo-comp list now happens on the MAX list. Regards, David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:06:07 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Harmonics. Hi All, Even with a GM synth, one can easily change the mood, tone colors of a piece of music by changing what sounds one uses for playback. Any combination of sounds interacts, and different combinations give different harmonics, just because of the way different sounds blend. This is a principle basic to all orchestration, whether synth or non synth. Often sounds combine in surprising ways, some sounds block other sounds, other sounds enhance other sounds, some sounds combine to give sounds our ears add, that arent actually there. One of the most useful and fun sound things I know of, is just to randomly change sounds while pieces are playing back, this is extra fun, if you have some synths stacked up in layers. Some combinations the sounds just seem to play each other, and then the room you are in, vibrating the windowpane, rattling dishes in the kitchen, bouncing off the audience members. All thanks to harmonics and resonance. I think the next century will bring a lot more sound experimentation for not just composing, but sound healing, etc. Happy Sounds Timothy Kelly MidiVox I like to think that in the next century many more musicians will ex s tacked up in layers -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:21:00 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: Harmonics. Jean Claude Risset has composed a csound instrument that produces harmonic glissandi by beating due to closely tuned fixed waveforms. The result sounds like several resonant filters moving up and down the spectrum. It should be available on any csound site, but I'll repost it if anyone's interested. -- Jeff. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:23:12 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Emiliano Canal Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L or SYNTH-L? Take this handy quiz! > POP QUIZ: Know Your EMUSIC-L/SYNTH-L Differences! > > The following are ten example quotes that might show up on one or the > other list. They're followed by my suggestions as to where they > belong. Some are obvious, others are more subtle. See how your score > compares with mine. > > 1. "Where can I get patches for my Korg Trinity, and is there a mailing > list or Website for users?" OK, got the idea. But I still find it a little obsessive. Let me tell you an example. I'm subscribed to SongTalk, the songwriters' list. A month or so ago I was playing with my drum machine (Alesis SR16) and I posted a mail saying that I have been playing with the swing quantization and found interesting things. As I knew that some guys there had the Cakewalk sequencer, they were able to do the same with it. 85% of the guys there write country on guitar, but one or two thanked me and tried. Nobody said "hey, this is off-topic, you should post it at rec.music.drum.machines.swing.alternative.quantization". When I asked about the Emu Morpheus, was not only asking about the maximum polyphony, but how to use its special features in a musical context. I've read the Keyboard review of the Morpheus and there it said that it was "a terrific tool for techno". What does it mean? How does a track sound "more techno" thanks to the Morpheus? Will someone in SYNTH-L answer that to me or they'll say "hey, we're discussing hardware here, ask that in EMUSIC-L"? Just what we needed! Virtual bureaucracy! PS: BTW, how do I susbscribe to SYNTH-L? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:55:03 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stefano Bona (by way of Stefano Bona )" Subject: doepfer LMK1.2 Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2? >Thanks >Stefano > > ---------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Stefano Bona Dipartimento di Agronomia Ambientale e Produzioni Vegetali AGRIPOLIS - Facolta' di Agraria - Universita' di Padova Via Romea n. 16 - 35020 Legnaro (PD) - Italy Tel. +39.49.8272831 Fax. +39.49.8272839 e-mail sbona@agripolis.unipd.it --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:56:34 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Harmonics. Michael Millard writes-- >I have listened to many different compositions where the >texture, pitch, and feel of a piece of music seemed to have a >much different feel from instrument to instrument. I have >played with this quite a bit using MIDI to assign various >sounds to a track to feel the differance given sounds >produced. I am curious to know just how much harmonics can >be varied with a true Synth and if it has been studied in >terms of general effect? Can we add subtle moods to a song >intentionally by harmonics modifications? Is it the >harmonics that are playing the major part or something else? Dr. Mike talked about physical effects while Timothy Kelly took the orchestration and psychoacoustic approach. I'd like to speak more compositionally. In classical music, just as an example, I seem to react most to CHANGES. What springs to mind as things that can be changed for effect include but are not limited to: 1. Harmonic changes from tonic, through dominant, and eventually back to tonic (Tension and release) 2. Tempo (allegro vs. grandioso) 3. orchestration (woodwinds vs. brass vs. full orchestra) 4. volume (crescendo, diminuendo, ff vs. pp) These changes can be abrupt or gradual. Now let's extend this concept of change into the realm of emusic. Change the filter and resonance characteristics of a filter; modify the delay, attack, decay, sustain, and release parameters of an envelope, layer an FM synth with a sample of an old analog synth (or the real thing); pan two synths to the center then pan one left and the other right over a period of time; dynamically pan a synth; play notes in an upper register; play notes in a lower register; play a sound rich in harmonics over a wide range of pitches through an LP filter panned left and an HP filter panned right, both set to the same cutoff frequency; use note on velocity to modulate the sample start point; use note off velocity to mod filter cutoff or sample loop point... See where I'm headed? It's not so much what harmonics a sound contains that creates a mood. It's the changing of harmonics over time; it's the changing of EVERYTHING over time. Contrast is the key, no matter what it is you are changing. Michael Millard asked: > Is there a combination of synth technologies that layer more > astheticly than others? I don't think it matters what mixture of synth technologies are used. What matters is how well you perceive the sounds to mix... or not mix. Stack a bell, a non-pitched kick drum, and a string pad and see what happens. Some will like it, others won't, and the wisest amoung you will file it away until the right situation comes along (if ever). Bill BillFox@lucent.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:04:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ras Baba Subject: remove remove me from list ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:28:49 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefano Bona Subject: doepfer LMK1.2 Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2? >Thanks >Stefano ---------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Stefano Bona Dipartimento di Agronomia Ambientale e Produzioni Vegetali AGRIPOLIS - Facolta' di Agraria - Universita' di Padova Via Romea n. 16 - 35020 Legnaro (PD) - Italy Tel. +39.49.8272831 Fax. +39.49.8272839 e-mail sbona@agripolis.unipd.it --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:30:18 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stefano Bona (by way of Stefano Bona )" Subject: doepfer LMK1.2 Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2 Thanks Stefano ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:18:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Dave Sheremata Subject: Re: remove ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD55.AAA61840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me too.. help? (thanks) ---------- From: Ras Baba Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 1997 10:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list EMUSIC-L Subject: remove remove me from list ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD55.AAA61840 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhoQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAOAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAVAAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEVsZWN0cm9uaWMgTXVz aWMgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBMaXN0AFNNVFAARU1VU0lDLUxAQU1FUklDQU4uRURVAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAWAAAARU1VU0lDLUxAQU1FUklDQU4uRURVAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4P BgAAAB4AATABAAAAIwAAACdFbGVjdHJvbmljIE11c2ljIERpc2N1c3Npb24gTGlzdCcAAAIBCzAB AAAAGwAAAFNNVFA6RU1VU0lDLUxAQU1FUklDQU4uRURVAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEA AAAEAAAAAAAAArU5AQSAAQALAAAAUkU6IHJlbW92ZQB/AwEFgAMADgAAAM0HAQAIAAsAEgAYAAMA FQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwEACAALABIADwADAAwBAQmAAQAhAAAAMDlDOTkwMzk3MTY5RDAxMUE3MkYw MEFBMDBCQzQzQTAA9gYBA5AGAPgCAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQABAAAAAwAuAAAA AAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAsGqSf/27AR4AcAABAAAACwAAAFJFOiByZW1vdmUAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAA AAG7/X+SYTmQyQppcRHQpy8AqgC8Q6AAAB4AHgwBAAAAAwAAAE1TAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABGRkkv RkZJTUFJTC9TaGVyZW1EAAMABhCRd/QDAwAHEI0AAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABNRVRPT0hFTFA/KFRI QU5LUyktLS0tLS0tLS0tRlJPTTpSQVNCQUJBU0VOVDpXRURORVNEQVksSkFOVUFSWTA4LDE5OTcx MDowNEFNVE86TVVMVElQTEVSRUNJUElFTlRTT0ZMAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAfQEAAHkBAAA+AwAATFpG dZJL7Bj/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCgyIzD3poZWwD IERs6mcCgzQTDX0KgAjPCdniOxefMjU1AoAKgQ2xwQtgbmcxMDMUIAsKGxLyDAFjAEAF0GUgdCBv by4uIBTxcD8IICh0EcBua3MpgwqFCotsaTE4MALR4GktMTQ0DfAM0B/T2QtZMTYKoANgdAWQBUC+ LSH3CocgqwwwIXZGA2FeOiL+IXYMggfwYQQgQv0BoGEinyOtBmACMCTfJesKVwmAbgeQZGF5LBQg SgBwdQrAeSAwQjgr4DE5OTcssDBoOjA0E3BNJz8jrVSGbyl/JetNdWx0BSD2bByQF6BjBSAIkAIw BCAob2YgHzBzBUBFTcBVU0lDLUwtnyhO+HViaiGxL78l6xegBGDMdmUd/x8DMzYgdxXC1wwBIXY4 JCAHgCADUjLzfziMOP8gdxvVIXYKhRbBAAFA0AAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwoIpijX/9 uwFAAAgwoIpijX/9uwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAf70= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD55.AAA61840-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:48:33 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment? >> > I have seen adds for these sorts of devices for a pretty long time. Do >they actually work well enough to be of any real use besides as a cool >toy. I have heard from sources in the past that the transition from >voice to midi frequently lost notes and pitch data. Is this still true, >in fact was it ever true? Has anyone ever integrated this sort of >device into their rigs? Hi All, As has been mentioned, this is not a gear list, so please email me directly for MidiVox info. MidiVox is real time hardware, there is no lost data or notes, because we do not do any mic based audible pitch to midi. And yes, its true all hardware and software based audible pitch to midi is not real time or accurate, which is why MidiVox is not an audible pitch to midi device. Happy Sounds Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. EM's Editors Choice. Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, Sing Like a Sax? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:52:44 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "william.b.fox" Subject: Re: Take this handy quiz! "Ha!" I thought to myself. "This quiz ought to be a cinch. I rarely break the rules!!" Dr. Mike is one crafty dude. I scored 60% (ouch). Here's where I went wrong: Q My Answer - --------- 2 SYNTH-L 4 EMUSIC-L 7 SYNTH-L 10 SYNTH-L But I consider 7 and 10 trick questions because the answers were NEITHER LIST. That boosts me to 75%, still too low for my pride. Oh, stuff my pride. Bill BillFox@lucent.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:05:36 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L or SYNTH-L? Take this handy quiz! In-Reply-To: <04390953218473@century.com.ar> from "Emiliano Canal" at Jan 8, 97 01:23:12 am Emiliano Canal writes-- > > OK, got the idea. But I still find it a little obsessive. You try running or co-moderating these lists and keeping them going smoothly for nearly a decade without a break and see how obsessive you get. If there were a better way to keep information flowing and make everyone (reasonably) happy, we'd use it, believe me. > When I asked about the Emu Morpheus, was not only asking about the maximum >polyphony, but how to use its special features in a musical context. I've >read the Keyboard review of the Morpheus and there it said that it was "a >terrific tool for techno". What does it mean? How does a track sound "more >techno" thanks to the Morpheus? Will someone in SYNTH-L answer that to me >or they'll say "hey, we're discussing hardware here, ask that in EMUSIC-L"? It's very rare that any topic raised on SYNTH-L gets referred to EMUSIC-L. Discussions of the gear and its music happen on SYNTH-L all the time, and are usually phrased in a context that makes them work well there without any need for a crossover. SYNTH-L's readership is larger and more diverse than EMUSIC-L's, and it exists happily on its own. Theoretically SYNTH-L could probably support the entire range of traffic most readers seem to want: want ads, gear for sale, comparing ROM revs, talking about new toys and old, etc., AND the occasional high-flying philosophical/musicological discussion. Based on that, one would never have to subscribe to EMUSIC-L at all, leaving the list for the people who make use of it for its own strengths. EMUSIC-L has its own "formula," one that is hard to explain, that carries it along in pleasant obscurity. Joe and I encourage this wherever possible, fighting the Internet inertia of EMUSIC-L being the older and better known group. For example, we request that magazines like EM or KEYBOARD not publish subscriber information for EMUSIC-L, but we do release and strongly encourage spreading subscription information on SYNTH-L. From the way you're approaching the making of music, I think that you would have a much better time on SYNTH-L. I think you'll be quite happy there, find a wide range of topics and useful data (much of it from names you'll recognize from this list), and never miss anything that goes on in EMUSIC-L. The two lists have very different flavors, and I think that SYNTH-L would better serve your needs. > Just what we needed! Virtual bureaucracy! The alternative is anarchy, and we already have that in our subject area in the form of rec.music.makers.synth, thank you very much. Anyone who thinks our administration policy is not worth following can leave, and anyone who thinks they can cover what we do in a better way is more than welcome to try. God knows Joe and I could use the rest. > PS: BTW, how do I susbscribe to SYNTH-L? Wait a minute! You raised the whole issue of why we divide subject matter between the two lists without first trying both lists out and seeing for yourself? That hardly seems fair to you; you're stuck trying to make decisions based on incomplete data. If that's the case, then I heartily encourage you to get on SYNTH-L at once and see what you're missing; I think you'll find it much more intuitively easy to use and enjoy than EMUSIC-L. You can subscribe the exact same way you subscribed to SYNTH-L, but you type "SYNTH-L" where you'd normally type "EMUSIC-L". The two lists have the same server and the same administrators, and respond to identical server command sets. If you have problems, consult the FAQ or email me and I'll be glad to help you get set up there. mike -- "I'm going through a phase where I'm learning how much I don't know, and I don't want to say anything unless it A. is correct and B. contributes.... Geez, all the lists would dry up if everyone was in the same phase." (cikira) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:59:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L or SYNTH-L? Take this handy quiz! In-Reply-To: <199701081805.KAA22099@netcom23.netcom.com> from "Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City" at Jan 8, 97 10:05:36 am > You can subscribe the exact same way you subscribed to SYNTH-L, but > you type "SYNTH-L" where you'd normally type "EMUSIC-L". The two lists > have the same server and the same administrators, and respond to > identical server command sets. If you have problems, consult the FAQ > or email me and I'll be glad to help you get set up there. > Plus there's the handy-dandy-way-cool-easy-as-anything subscription form on http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l. If your browser dislikes frames, try http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l/subunsub.html. Enjoy. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:53:01 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "E---->" Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment? In-Reply-To: <199701081648.IAA20847@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> I, personally am still curious about the question at hand, does anyone know of real-time hardware and/or software pitch-to-midi products in existence? ********************************************************* -Eric Johnson- ********************************************************* On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Timothy Kelly wrote: > >> > > I have seen adds for these sorts of devices for a pretty long time. > Do > >they actually work well enough to be of any real use besides as a cool > >toy. I have heard from sources in the past that the transition from > >voice to midi frequently lost notes and pitch data. Is this still > true, > >in fact was it ever true? Has anyone ever integrated this sort of > >device into their rigs? > > Hi All, > As has been mentioned, this is not a gear list, so please email me > directly for MidiVox info. MidiVox is real time hardware, there is no > lost data or notes, because we do not do any mic based audible pitch to > midi. And yes, its true all hardware and software based audible pitch > to midi is not real time or accurate, which is why MidiVox is not an > audible pitch to midi device. > Happy Sounds > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox > -- > MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. > BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. > > Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. > EM's Editors Choice. > > Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, > Sing Like a Sax? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:43:00 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment At 01:01 AM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:58:36 +1000 >From: David Rodger >Subject: Re: E-music aesthetics and computer synthesis: Enlightenment > >HI emusicians, >Peter Mueller wrote: > >> You also might want to lurk on the Algorhythmic composition list. Its > >I wouldn't. The list still exists, but no one uses it any more. Actually, >it's been so long since there was _any_ traffic on this list that I wonder >if the moderator (Gary Nelson, Ithink) didn't shut it down. Are you baiting me? :) The list is still alive (I'm the moderator); if you're not getting messages, drop me a line and I'll see whether something's wrong. >It seems that Opcode's MAX is a good way of implementing algorithmic >composition for so many people that much of the discussion of that which >used to take place on the algo-comp list now happens on the MAX list. Unless you use a PC, SGI, or any of the other things MAX won't run on. Or if you're allergic to heinous copy protection. :) > Regards, David -- Kirk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:54:05 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Subscription FAQs 1.0 (second posting) Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU Warning: Long Document (193 lines, 1031 words, about 3 pages)-------------- EMUSIC-L and SYNTH-L Frequently Asked Questions: Subscriptions This document is posted sometime, especially when triggered by the key phrase 'how do I subscribe to' in a list posting... It is intended that this document should answer many of the questions regularly asked by subscribers to the lists. Comments and corrections should be sent to the maintainer, Martin Russ, at: mruss@midi.dungeon.com This is the second posting of Issue 1.0, 4th August 1996. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ has been extracted from the Admin FAQ V1.4, with some additions. TOPIC INDEX################################################################ - Subscriptions (all) - Remember this! - Unsubscribing - Subscribing - Digests - Subscription options SUBSCRIPTIONS############################################################## ##"What do I need to remember?"############################################ Either keep these FAQs, or remember just this: You send subscription-related mail messages to listserv@american.edu (Do NOT send them to EMUSIC-L@american.edu or SYNTH-L@american.edu) ##"How do I unsubscribe?"################################################## For EMUSIC-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB EMUSIC-L as the body. No special subject is required. For SYNTH-L, you send mail to listserv@american.edu with the text UNSUB SYNTH-L as the body. Again, no special subject is required. If this does not work, you will get a message saying that no entry was found for your ID. Please contact Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET) or Mike Metlay directly. Please, do *NOT* post unsubscribe messages to the list. They don't help, and simply irritate other readers. AOL subscribers may experience some problems with unsubscribing from the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot unsubscribe then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). ##"How do I subscribe?"#################################################### To join the discussion group on a message-by-message basis, send a mail message to listserv@american.edu with the text SUB EMUSIC-L where "" is your actual first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the other list members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. ##"How do I subscribe to the daily digest?"################################ If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L, send the following mail to listserv@american.edu: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST where "" should be replaced by your first and last name (at a minimum; LISTSERV insists on at least two blank-separated words here). Note that these two commands should be on separate lines: SUB EMUSIC-L SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST so that the listserv will interpret them correctly. Do not send subscription requests to the list address, as they only serve to annoy the otherlist members. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. ##"How do I unsubscribe from the full list and subscribe to the digest?"### If you would like to get daily digests of the mail to EMUSIC-L instead of the message-by-message form, just send the following mail message to listserv@american.edu: SET EMUSIC-L DIGEST You will then get one message per day, which consists of a list of topics, followed by all the messages which have been posted in the previous 24 hours. For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. AOL subscribers may experience some problems in changing their subscription details via the listserv. This may be a communications problem or an incompatibility... If you cannot change to a digest then please save any messages that you may receive from the listserv and send them to Joe McMahon (mcmahon@CLARK.NET). ##"But I prefer to get messages as they arrive!"########################### If you would like to get mail as it arrives at EMUSIC-L instead of in the collected/digest form, just send the following mail message to listserv@american.edu: SET EMUSIC-L MAIL For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. ##"Why don't I see my own postings to the list?"########################### If you don't see their own postings, you might be tempted to re-post when in fact, there may be nothing wrong at all. There are a number of options which determine how your mailings are sent. You can check your subscription options by sending the following message to listserv@american.edu: QUERY EMUSIC-L For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. (Please do NOT send to EMUSIC-L@american.edu or SYNTH-L@american.edu!) This generates a reply like this: Subscription options for Andrew N. Other , list EMUSIC-L: MAIL You are sent individual postings as they are received FULLHDR Full (normal) mail headers (formerly "FULLBSMTP") NOREPRO You do not receive a copy of your own postings NOACK No acknowledgement of successfully processed postings CONCEAL Your subscription is concealed from non-privileged users; note that posting to the list will reveal your presence In this case the option NOREPRO is set: ie Andrew does not get copies of his own postings sent to him. This is the default for subscribers, so you won't get copies of your own posts when you sign on the list. If you want to change this, send the following command to listserv@american.edu: SET EMUSIC-L REPRO For SYNTH-L, you do exactly the same, but replace the text 'EMUSIC-L' with 'SYNTH-L'. The listserver should then send you your new subscription options. ##"Is there a quick reference card?"####################################### There is a listserver reference card, which gives details of how to do the above and more. This can be obtained by sending the following command to listserv@american.edu: INFO REFCARD The listserver will then send you a file of the commands that you can use with the list. ##Contributors############################################################# Contributions and suggestions by Mike Metlay, Joe McMahon, Clive McFarland, David Rodger, Martin Russ... ########################################################################### ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:25:37 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Stuart Wilkes.user" Subject: Please Remove me from your lists Me as well please ! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:19:33 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stefano Bona Subject: HELP!!! How to store modified presets with doepfer LMK1.2 Do you know how to store modified presets with Doepfer LMK1.2? Thanks Stefano ---------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Stefano Bona Dipartimento di Agronomia Ambientale e Produzioni Vegetali AGRIPOLIS - Facolta' di Agraria - Universita' di Padova Via Romea n. 16 - 35020 Legnaro (PD) - Italy Tel. +39.49.8272831 Fax. +39.49.8272839 e-mail sbona@agripolis.unipd.it --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:20:13 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bill Flavell Subject: Re: Harmonics, missing sentance. Timothy Kelly's post got chopped off the other day and he sent me the tail end and said I could post it for him. Bill Flavell ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi Bill, > Didnt know my mailer clipped the post. Heres as best I can recall. >> >>> I like to think that in the next century many more musicians will >experiment with sound textures, also different scales, which will >result in different combinations of tone colors and sound harmonics. > Harmonic overtones have a great potential for balancing and healing >the body with sound. > Happy Sounds > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox > > >-- >MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Real Time Hardware. >BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. > >Sing, Hum, Scat, Croon, Rap, Talk, Scream . AES Best in Show. >EM's Editors Choice. > >Become a Human Sequencer & Human Vocoder. Can You Hum a Bass, >Sing Like a Sax? > > > --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:16:31 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tim Thompson Subject: KeyKit > From: "Dr. Kirk Corey" > >From: David Rodger > >It seems that Opcode's MAX is a good way of implementing algorithmic > >composition for so many people that much of the discussion of that which > >used to take place on the algo-comp list now happens on the MAX list. > > Unless you use a PC, SGI, or any of the other things MAX won't run on. > Or if you're allergic to heinous copy protection. :) A new option that just became freely available is called KeyKit (a new name for a software system that used to be called Keynote). It runs on PC's (win95 and NT) and SGI and Linux (using X Windows) and others, and complete C source code is freely available for porting to other boxes (it has already been ported to at least a dozen environments in its lifetime, so the code is very easy to port). At you will be able to download the complete C source code, and executables for Win95 and Linux. KeyKit includes a multi-tasking programming language designed specifically for MIDI, and a multi-window graphical user interface with pop-up/pull-off menus and a variety of graphical tools, including a complete multi-track editor with a large number of editing operations and infinite undo. The gui appears identically on all platforms. The gui is completely implemented (even the multi-window manager and pull-off buttons) with the KeyKit language in a user-defined library, so you can add new tools, and add new editing operations to the multi-track editor, even while the system is running. Go to for more info, and email to tjt@nosuch.com if you have any questions. At you'll find my home page which has a collection of MIDI files for various music that I've composed using KeyKit exclusively - it's a combination of "normal" music (using KeyKit as a "normal" sequencer, albeit with editing operations that I customize as needed) and algorithmic stuff - I use algorithmic things as "spice" for pieces, and only occasionaly do completely-algorithmic stuff. You'll also find a web-based musical toy called Muse-O-Matic - you enter a word and you get back algorithmic music based on it. ...Tim...tjt@nosuch.com.... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:32:10 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Myles Mahood Subject: Re: Drum and Bass, Sample Libraries...OK, STIMULATING CHAT. -Reply Comments: To: digizine2@ZEUS.OANET.COM Hmmm... I've heard Macro Dub Infection 1 and 2 - and was probably a lot less impressed with it than you seem to be. As for what's 'cool and cutting edge', I'd have to agree that drum 'n bass, jungle and amyl house probably represent some of the most innovative (and danceable) styles of music around. Music I've bought (or listened to) recently includes the most recent works of: CJ Bolland, Laurent Garner, Sonz Of Da Noise, Aphex Twin, Orbital, Alec Empire, Metalheadz, Atari Teenage Riot, Depth Charge, etc, etc. If you like drum n' bass (and breakbeat), C J Bolland has really changed directions with his new album 'The Analogue Theatre' (although it is pretty commercial). If you're into compilations the 'Brit Hop and Amyl House' album is a really good mix of some of the most innovative hard trance and hard house. It includes Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, Lionrock, Depth Charge, etc, etc. Good jungle artists include Atom 1, Sidewinder, Trooper - their sets include some of the best music I have ever heard. At the moment, I guess jungle and drum n' bass which samples soundtracks is the coolest and most cutting edge music available today... * All of the above IMHO obviously .... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:11:16 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies >I've been experimenting with a technique which allows >me to do wavesequencing of a very bizarre sort on the VFXsd. The gamelan piece >was the most mainstream of the bunch. That gamelan piece is beautiful. That's the VFXsd? Ooh: can we expect an album of this material? (btw Joe: any feedback on my album would be most welcome.) Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:11:32 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Precise personal aesthetics >Convenience is a >synonym for compromise. Convenience could also be a synonym for ergonomics, or transparency, as applied to technology. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:11:22 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies >There is so much we could discuss, for example: > >(1) Relating microcomposition of sound to macrocomposition (of music), >(2) Midi arranging and performance techniques, >(3) Analysis/Transcriptions of new compositions, >(4) New theories of organizing musical elements, >(5) Perception issues related to new methods of organizing musical >elements, I'm heavily into (2), with perhaps some emphasis on (4), depending what you mean by it. I'm trying to develop a notion of process for building performance systems using MAX and alternate controllers. (My "Tree of Doom", as Metlay calls it, carries a Thunder and two fader boxes, plus the MAX-hosting PowerBook.) I would drop a pointer to my articles in Sound On Sound, except that I've forgotten when they were published; end of 1995 I think. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:54:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Jan 10, 97 04:11:16 pm > That gamelan piece is beautiful. That's the VFXsd? Ooh: can we expect an > album of this material? > Very likely, at some point. I'm just beginning to really get into the proper mindset for playing this stuff. I was fortunate enough to get to hear a fair amount of Sundanese suff while I was in Bali, including a CD I liked very well but wasn't going to get gouged $33 US for at the airport :p. Now if I can manage to learn how to keep my head straight while playing those interlocking rhythms at those insane speeds... Keep an eye out for "Sundanese Degung-Sabilulungan/Music of West Java". There are at least two volumes - volume 2 is the one I have. It's much more like chamber gamelan, or maybe gamelan quartet. Usually flute, one of the mid-range gamelan (I'm unable to tell which one, exactly), and maybe the gong agung as a rhythmic pulse. Delicious. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:52:09 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Jan 10, 97 04:11:22 pm Nick Rothwell writes-- > >>There is so much we could discuss, for example: >> >>(1) Relating microcomposition of sound to macrocomposition (of music), >>(2) Midi arranging and performance techniques, >>(3) Analysis/Transcriptions of new compositions, >>(4) New theories of organizing musical elements, >>(5) Perception issues related to new methods of organizing musical >>elements, (6) Computational efficiency vs. timbral range of synthesis algorithms, (7) Background on the Acoustics/Physics of sound creation, and probably lots more. >I'm heavily into (2), with perhaps some emphasis on (4), depending what you >mean by it. I'm trying to develop a notion of process for building >performance systems using MAX and alternate controllers. (My "Tree of >Doom", as Metlay calls it, carries a Thunder and two fader boxes, plus the >MAX-hosting PowerBook.) Um, speaking of the "Tree of Doom" (DAC Crwoell's name for it, not mine; the suffix "--of Doom" is one of his trademarks), it left my studio with one more branch than it had when it arrived, dude. Did you forget that I loaned you that extra USS half-tier? You owe me a pint and some crisps when the family finally makes it to Scotland, old son. >I would drop a pointer to my articles in Sound On Sound, except that I've >forgotten when they were published; end of 1995 I think. November 1995 under your own name; December 1995's Apple Notes (with Martin Russ's byline, tho he's careful to credit you in the text); and your nice editorial is in June 1996 on the back page. You're welcome. mike -- "I'm going through a phase where I'm learning how much I don't know, and I don't want to say anything unless it A. is correct and B. contributes.... Geez, all the lists would dry up if everyone was in the same phase." (cikira) ========================================================================== Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675 USA = atomic@netcom.com -- http://pd.net/atomic-city -- 800.924.ATOM = CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:01:08 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Csound >I don't know perl, but I've look at the CSound >source and wouldn't want to rewrite it (or any large program) in any >language. ...and you wouldn't want to rewrite it (or any program, however small) in Perl. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:06:37 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ed Forner Subject: The Music Mouse I have just installed a Mac 8500 in our em studio. To my surprise, the Music Mouse can no longer be booted. The 8500 operating sys cannot talk to it. I consider the MM to be of great value from a teaching standpoint, because of the concept Laurie Spiegel had of it, and I will not give it up without a fight. (I would be happy to explain why if anyone wishes...at another time, perhaps) OpCode tells us that no upgrade was ever released. Any one else had to deal with this problem? Does anyone have an email contact for Laurie Spiegel so I might contact her about it. Any workarounds? thanks, and happy New Year +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Ed Forner Macalester College Music Department + + forner@macalester.edu voice (612) 696-6189 + + St. Paul, MN, 55105 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:23:19 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Subject: Re: The Music Mouse < Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Tim Thompson Subject: Re: KeyKit Comments: cc: lt@westnet.com > >A new option that just became freely available is called KeyKit (a new name > A quick look through the source code indicates to me that the multitasking > is only cooperative and not preemptive, All KeyKit tasks run in a single process (and single thread) of the native OS, with tasks being timesliced at the KeyKit interpreter level, and realtime things handled at a higher priority within the interpreter - you can run any number of KeyKit tasks, and it won't bog down the realtime output or input. If the underlying OS has cooperative multi-tasking, then you of course have cooperative timesharing between the KeyKit process and other processes. > and relies on MMSYSTEM for timing in > the WIN 95 version. It relies on the MMSYSTEM timer, but it doesn't use the realtime MIDI playback of Win95 - all scheduling of MIDI output is done within the KeyKit process (partly for portability, partly because that lets me do whatever I want). The low-level support needed by a host OS, in order to run KeyKit, is the ability to query a high-res clock and to be able to "wait for any input, or a specified timeout" with some semblance of accuracy. > Doesn't this mean that the real-time performance isn't > failsafe, or am I missing something? Definitely not failsafe, but I've found it more than adequate. I have hooks that let you elevate the priority of the process under Win95, and I used to use the realtime scheduling priorities when I used to use SVR4 UNIX, but I really haven't had to worry about it much, what with CPUs as fast as they are nowadays. (I think the breakthrough was back when I got a 386/20.) > Could KeyKit be easily built for Win 3.1? The same executable works under win32s, except that system exclusives are broken there. It won't improve the realtime performance, it will degrade it (perhaps because win32s's MIDI hooks are slow? - it's amazing it works at all). > Win 95, in which I hear you really need to use a VxD and not MMSYSTEM for > any kind of reasonable timing. My definition of reasonable timing for MIDI is met, but it's a sure bet there are people for whom it's not. > On this subject, how does Linux deal with real-time issues? I'm thinking of > trying Linux for some things, if the multitasking is any better (i.e. > pre-emptive) than it is with MS Windows. The multitasking within KeyKit is completely independent of the multitasking (if any) of the OS it runs on. The biggest issue, usually, is whether there are other things running on the machine that interrupt it - for example, I try to turn off the Win95 "System Agent" when I really care about realtime in KeyKit. I often forget, though, and almost never notice. Just to give you a sense of how well the KeyKit interpreter handles tasks amidst realtime activity - in the GUI, the sequencer is a piano-roll style. When you play something back, the piano-roll notes flash. This is done with the following KeyKit method that executes in a separate task, which in turn spawns a separate task for drawing/undrawing each and every note. One of these tasks is spawned for each track displayed in the multi-track editor. In parallel with this, it's playing the realtime MIDI output (actually each track is played as a separate realtime task, so it can be muted on the fly) and recording MIDI input. This illustrates the general style of KeyKit - rather than building things into the language, I've developed it so that you build virtually everything out of the language. No need for escaping to C code. method task_flashnotes(ph,stime,offset) { off = stime - offset for ( n in ph ) { if ( (tm = n.time + off) > Now ) sleeptill(tm) $.drawphrase(n,CLEAR) # The extra 4 here is mainly for 0-duration things like # pitch bends and stuff. if ( Flashquick ) { task $.undrawnextnote(n,tm+12) } else { task $.undrawnextnote(n,tm+n.dur+4) } } } ...Tim... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Csound In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Jan 10, 97 09:01:08 pm > ...and you wouldn't want to rewrite it (or any program, however small) in Perl. Disagree, Nick. We redesigned and rewrote the GLOBE production system in a little bit less than six weeks, from scratch, in perl5. Most of it worked during initial testing (after the odd syntax error had been corrected). This came out to about 30,000 lines total, and has been running flawlessly since the 1.0 release (since last April), no fixes required. perl5's object-oriented features, vastly improved namespace handling, pointers, and ability to handle arbitrary data structures, make it a far better programming language than it was before. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:01:54 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies Hi Joe and Nick... the subject heading is a bit whiffy by now. I think you fellows should seek out some of the New Gamelan stuff that people like Jody Diamond and Lou Harrison are doing. It's quite good. I don't recall the URL, but I think there's a link to the American Gamelan Institute from Frog Peak Music (a search engine should give you this). Jody was out here for six months; I saw the results of her workshops just a couple of months ago. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:37:39 -0500 Reply-To: Bogdan Dragan Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bogdan Dragan Subject: Question ! Hello everybody! I have one question for anybody who can answer me: Who has an old but good SoundBlaster to give away ? I'm asking you that because I'm rather new in electronic music stuff and I'd like to learn almoust everything about this bussiness starting from the bottom. I know how to make music but "d like to know more. Thanx! |-----\ _____ |-----\ ********************************** | __ | | | | __ | * Bogdan Dragan * | | | | | | | *::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::* |-----/ | | | |-----/ * Tel^Fax^Data:(40)-1-745.6218 * |-----\ | | | |-----\ * Email:ndragan@pcnet.pcnet.ro * | __ | | | | | __ | * Bucharest * | | | | | | | * R O M A N I A * |-----/ |_____| |-----/ ********************************** QUOD SCRIPSI SCRIPSI ! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:37:04 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: WWW FAQs Comments: To: SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU After a long gestation, the current General FAQ for the Emusic-l and Synth-l lists is now available for testing via the WWW. Try it out and let me know what you think: http://www.dungeon.com/~midi/gen14.html This is only a beta test site; the full thing is likely to be at a different URL. Does anyone have any views on preferences of WWW FAQ over (ir)regular postings? A regular posting of a URL reminder for the FAQs should be much smaller (and faster) than three or four big FAQ text postings. Regards Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:10:37 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Csound >perl5's object-oriented features, vastly improved namespace handling, >pointers, and ability to handle arbitrary data structures, make it a >far better programming language than it was before. Oh, good. I've done a lot of work in Perl4 and consider it a dreadful language. It does all the right things in all the wrong ways: implicit variable declaration, implicit type coercion, implicit data operators, all conspire to make a typo or syntactic error mean something totally beyond your imagination. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:10:42 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Fuddy-duddies >Um, speaking of the "Tree of Doom" (DAC Crwoell's name for it, not mine; >the suffix "--of Doom" is one of his trademarks), it left my studio with >one more branch than it had when it arrived, dude. Did you forget that I >loaned you that extra USS half-tier? Oops. USS hardware is somewhat Borg-like in my experience; the tripod arrived in the US with no branches and left with three. Thank goodness that the UK quarantine laws prevent any USS stuff making it to these shores. >You owe me a pint and some crisps >when the family finally makes it to Scotland, old son. Deal. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:43:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: LEMoseley@AOL.COM Subject: remove Please remove from list ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:40:53 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "E---->" Subject: Akai MX-73 Does anyone have any experience using this lower-buck keyboard as a controller? ********************************************************* -Eric Johnson- *********************************************************