========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:51:44 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Miguel Correa Subject: Re: Bower Bird & mating for life - comic relief IN>Last year a friend of mine upgraded from GirlFriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0 Girlfriend 1.0? Sure??? Wife 1.0 may be... :))) IN>and found that it's a memory hog, leaving very little system resources IN> available for other applications. IN> He is now noticing that Wife 1.0 is also spawning Child Processes IN>which are further consuming valuable resources. It's a pity... there are other beautiful things in life. Of course, childs are really wonderful. But the upgrade from girfriend 1.0 to wife 1.0 deserves a certain time to decide... The upgrade is *very* valuable, but one must consider how efficient is the new operating system (Bill, you and Win 95 really sucks! :) IN> No mention of this particular phenomena was included in the product IN> brochure or the documentation, though other users have informed him IN>that this is to be expected due to the nature of the application. Not IN>only that, Wife 1.0 installs itself such that it is always launched at IN>system initialization, where it can monitor all other system activity. He's IN>finding that some applications such as PokerNight 10.3, BeerBash 2.5, IN>and PubNight 7.0 are no longer able to run in the system at all, IN>crashing the system when selected (even though they always worked IN>fine before). Sorry, my dear friend... the upgrade is a magnificent approach to all that a man can ask from life... It's only a change, so, after a little time, he'll come accustomed... (and BTW, he can then get the latest version... :) IN> During installation, Wife 1.0 provides no option as to the IN>installation of undesired Plug-Ins such as MotherInLaw 55.8 and IN>BrotherInLaw IN>Beta release. Also, system performance seems to diminish with each IN>passing day. IN> Some features he'd like to see in the upcoming wife 2.0. Naaaaaah! I tried version 5.2 beta... and things doesn't seem to improve too much... IN> - - - A "Don't remind me again" button - - - Minimize button IN> - - - An install shield feature that allows Wife 2.0 be IN>installed with the option to uninstall at anytime without the loss of IN>cache and other system resources. IN> I myself decided to avoid the headaches associated with Wife 1.0 by IN>sticking with Girlfriend 2.0. Even here, however, I found many problems. IN> Apparently you cannot install Girlfriend 2.0 on top of Girlfriend IN>1.0. Well, I'm trying it up today, but without success... :( The main problem is to stack Girlfriend 2.0 on Wife 1.0. After all, the multitasking capabilities of Wife are much superior to that of Girlfriend... Believe it or not. IN> You must uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 first. Other users say this is a IN>long standing bug that I should have known about. You'd think they would IN>have fixed such a stupid bug by now. To make matters worse, the uninstall IN>program for Girlfriend 1.0 doesn't work very well, leaving IN>undesirable traces of the application in the system.(Editorial comment: IN>The IN>uninstall button should have an added feature. Upon activation, the user's IN>joystick should be permanently disabled - What do you think? IN>Too harsh?) Too harsh? Hey! Well, if the joystick refuse to work, you even can give a try to a pad... may be a trackball? a touchpad? ehe... a mouse? errr... the back connector, may be? ;) IN> Another thing -- all versions of Girlfriend continually pop up IN>little annoying messages about the advantages of upgrading to Wife 1.0 IN> ***** BUG WARNING ******** IN> Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 IN>before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files IN>before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to IN>install, IN>claiming insufficient resources. Oh, man... that's *too* bad... My grand father always said me: Mackie, CAREFULLY read the disclaimer before opening any womanware package... IN> More applications that won't run with Wife 1.0 include Golfing 2.3, IN>Softball 3.6, and Cubgamewatching 2.7. Applications that run very IN>well with Wife 1.0, however, include Fixthis 1.1, Waitforme 3.5, and IN> Couldupickthisuponthewayhome 5.7!!!! Here, I must to agree that Wife whatever version it is, is very superior to *any* girl friend... Tell your friend that the GUI is only the external thing... It is the KERNEL what is all important!!!! And now, I'm not kidding... :) Regards Miguel * SLMR 2.1a * A.A.A.A.A: American Association Against Acronym Abuse ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:12:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: SINBYTE@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Are the subjects still debateable? In a message dated 97-02-07 03:54:27 EST, you write: << I joined this list to discus electronic music (i.e. keyboards, samplers, use of sequencers and so), and I didn't expect it to be a list where 90% of the mail would discuss philosophical thoughts about music. >> CHECK OUT THEW SYNTH-L LIST... YOU MIGHT FIND IT MORE PLEASING... THIS IS ABOUT ELECTRONIC MUSIC...THE CONTENT OF THE LIST IS SUBJECT TO THE PEOPLE INPUTING COMMENT...WHEREVER IT MAY TAKE US... SIN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:34:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Leigh Britton Subject: Re: microtonality via midi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Geffen wrote: > > At 12:53 AM 2/7/97 -0800, you wrote: > >while we're on the topic of microtonality, is there a way to do this via > >midi? I know midi sends note on/off for 12 notes/octave, how do you get > >around it? pitch bend messages? what about for *really* dumb midi > >synths? > > > > You need a smart synth. The DX7 II (for example) allows you to program the > pitch of each key separately, and it comes with some microtonal preset > scales (as well as a number of interesting 12-tone tunings). Then you can > use MIDI to fire the keys, but you have to remember that the "note" numbers > no longer correspond to the usual pitch values. > > - Paul > > Paul Geffen > SQA, Inc. > http://www.tiac.net/users/lpaul Just to add a bit: Yes, and you can change the tunings 'on the fly' via sysex also, in just about all synths with tuneable keys. For performance, this allows 'more than one synth' from one synth. -- Terry Leigh Britton http://www.rbdc.com/~brittont/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 03:38:33 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Leigh Britton Subject: Re: microtonality via midi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Luca de Marinis wrote: > > M. Nail wrote: > > > > while we're on the topic of microtonality, is there a way to do this via > > midi? I know midi sends note on/off for 12 notes/octave, how do you get > > around it? pitch bend messages? > > Well,if the synth in not micro-tunable,the only way seems pitch > bend..altrough I'm not sure if it can be enough accurate. Let's see.. > The pitch bend controller is 14 bits,that's +-128 steps.If pitch bend > sens.is set to 2 octaves,resolution is less than one cent,so shouldn't > do. > If Sens is 1 octave,in theory good resolution should be reached. > Only,Altrough the controller is 14 bits,I'm not sure that all synths > really use all of them. > Some may use only the high word,or high word+some bits of the lower > one.. > > > What about for *really* dumb midi > > synths? > > No way,I guess.. > > Yahozna > > -- > Luca S. G. de Marinis http://www.interseg.it/~trance/ > Developing Chaos Using pitch-bend could really be a chore, but you could conceivably assign a separate zone to each key and -- either multi-timbrely or via layered patches -- then assign a unique pitch bend amount to each key for a short scale. For instance, my keyboard has 8 zones, so I could have up to 8 unique tunings 'off-pitch' from tempered. -- Terry Leigh Britton http://www.rbdc.com/~brittont/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:03:12 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Leigh Britton Subject: Re: Arnold's choice -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert M. Sanders wrote: > > Mark Simon writes: > < > I believe that music-making requires 3 agents: a composing agent, a > performing agent, and a listening agent. > ... > Given this 3-way chain of communication, I think music has to have a > certain level of univerality. If music is entirely personal in meaning, then > the communication from composer to performer to audience breaks > down. But since there's such a wide variation among people, true > universality is never really a possiblity. > < > BINGO! Give the man a cigar! I'll second that! In fact, the entire article is excellent. I'm keeping it, Mark! The only factor I'd add is the time/place/culture element, which you developed quite well in your Schoenberg example. The composer is influenced, the performer is, and the listener as well by their own particular time and place and the influences bearing upon them from that time and place. So, the angst-period composer may be taken cheerily. With this factor, the composer loses his control of things immediately upon finishing the piece, whereas the performers and listeners take charge of investing the meanings 'from their time' into the work -- from their unique frame of reference. So, the composers' frame of reference becomes static almost by default, whereas the performers' and listeners' remain dynamic. I wonder if there is another way to structure my role as a composer? This is turning into fodder for an approach to my work that is new for me, and is leading to a paradigm shift in my thinking of late. (Just to let you know this has been quite a stimulating discussion for me!) -- Terry Leigh Britton http://www.rbdc.com/~brittont/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:26:51 +0100 Reply-To: nature@worldaccess.nl Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: gert braakman Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 7 Feb 1997 to 8 Feb 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "M. Nail" wrote: Subject: microtonality via midi while we're on the topic of microtonality, is there a way to do this via midi? Yes, some synths support alternate tuning tables. Once you figure out what sysex to send to change these values it's possible to change the tuning tables in real time. I created a program in MAX that controls the tuning of a wavestation in realtime. I can also set pitch curves that allow me to change the tuning of 5 notes simultaniously. So if I press the same chord twice the tuning of each note will have chanched slightly. I've tried more (6 to 12) but the wavestation cannot handle that amount of sysex. Best, Gert Nature/Wellness Education through Applied Ecopsychology Earth Day '97: http://www.pacificrim.net/~nature/earthday97.html NatureConnect Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~sasmith/list.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:58:00 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Die Reihe issues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recall someone on this list was interested in old Die Reihe issues. If it indeed was so, please reply privately. Best! -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:17:30 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DEVOTION Subject: Roland JP8000 test results Comments: To: SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU, electronica@maths.exeter.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Danish magazien "Midi Mag" just dumped into my mail box, and as they have had the oppertunity to do a little pre-test on the JP 8000, I just wanted you to hear some of the oppinions they have : 1. The main thing about the JP 8000 is that it's a Physical Modeling clone of the earlier Roland stuff like the Jupiter series. 2. It's got the ordinary synth waveforms and some new combinations of these too. There are no "ordinary" things like saxophones and strings, but it's got PWM, oscilator sync, cross modulation and ring modulation. 3. The filter can scram like a wounded animal - just like the old Mini Moog 4. You can be in either patch or performance mode. In patch, you've got one patch to play with at a time, but in performance mode you have two patches in either layered or split mode. You can put the two patches on the same or on two different midi channels. 5. The effect section only gives you echo and chorus, but the patch itself can also have some distortion added. 6. The unique thing is the two sequencers : A. On each key you can record (and place) a little phrase like an arpeggiated pattern or a bass line. Every time you press that key, the phrase will go off. The tempo can be controlled internally or externally. B. The other sequencer can record fader movements and thereby making it possible to produce a complete filtersweep with only one touch 7. Their conclusion is : "The single most important fact about this machine is it sound. It really gets out of the machine". As an old JD800 owner and a dance producer, I would very much like to own one of these as it seems to be the perfect synth at the time (for the price). -- Over 'n out! :] DEVOTION '97 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:07:01 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: The Art Discussion (1) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Terry... > Hah! So, now it's a race to see who can get their postcards to the > patent offices first with the world's one and only original WEB > CONTROLLER! I suspect Michel Waisvisz beat us to it. :-) Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:33:30 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bill Sethares presented a very interesting session at ICMC last year about tuning the harmonics of sounds used in alternative tunings. He demonstrated that you can haveweird tunings but they sound wrong if they preserve the usual harmonic structure (whole-number frequency multiples; roughly, that is -- I know it doesn't always work out that way in 12TET). If you tune the harmonics in realtion to the scale, it sounds "right" (or a whole lot better, anyway). UInfotunately, most synths (particularly Nick Rothwell's beloved sample players :-) ) don't allow one to do this. I have no URL for Bill's work and there was no paper in the ICMC proccedings. I also can't remember where he's from except the Western US. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:26:57 -0800 Reply-To: "M. Nail" Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "M. Nail" Comments: To: Terry Leigh Britton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ... the composer loses his control of things immediately upon finishing the piece, whereas the performers and listeners take charge of investing the meanings 'from their time' into the work -- from their unique frame of reference. So, the composers' frame of reference becomes static almost by default, whereas the performers' and listeners' remain dynamic. I wonder if there is another way to structure my role as a composer? this isn't necessarily all true. composers have written scores that outlined the music only, thereby including the performers' interpretations as an intended part of the growth of the piece. on the other side you could say that a recorded performance has become necessarily static. the listener can't help but be affected by the present I suppose. --- mnail@u.washington.edu //--- "A racing car adorned with great pipes like serpents with explosive breath and seeming to run on grapeshot... is more beautiful than the Winged Victory of Samothrace" -Filippo Marinetti ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 02:46:11 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Hal Phillips Organization: Magenta Aphrodite Productions Subject: New-Guy Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm new to this list, and I signed up to read more than I did to write, but to start things off, I have a question. Well... a question about a question. I can't be 100% clear about what goes on in this list until I've read more than about two messages, so I don't want to send an inappropriate question. So tell me: is it alright to ask questions about electronic music hardware, or is this list just for talking about the music itself? -- Ask your newsgroup administrator to carry alt.fan.fairuza-balk! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hal Phillips, independent agent Founder, Magenta Aphrodite Productions Excursions: http://www.webspan.net/~bocko/ Quote Of The Day: "I want to bite the hand that feeds me, I want to bite that hand so badly."-- Elvis Costello, "Radio Radio" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 13:29:47 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Martin Russ Subject: Re: FSOL...EMUSIC-L Digest - 1/2 Feb 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City wrote: > > > Ooooh, THERE'S a topic for the list... is it okay to produce music for > > live performance with the understanding that its interest may be > > ephemeral, because its EXISTENCE is ephemeral, or must everything be > > created with the aim of being listened to forever? I've produced music which has been mastered to a single cassette, and the source MIDI files were then deleted - making that cassette the only existence of that music, which makes it potentially pretty ephemeral. I've also heard about people putting razor blades into cassette cases so that it splits the tape as it is played (or tiny little magnets to erase the tape), which makes the music a 'one-time' playback! Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Martin Russ Reviewer & Columnist for Sound On Sound Magazine (UK) mruss@midi.dungeon.com Hi-Tech Music Technical Author & MIDI Consultant http://www.dungeon.com/~midi Macintosh & Synthesizer Programmer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:24:03 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Verraes Subject: Re: Are the subjects still debateable? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What you > appear to want to talk about is electronic musical INSTRUMENTS.... the > tools, not the task. And that's okay; in fact, there's an entire list > devoted just to that, our sister list SYNTH-L. How do I subscribe for synth-l ? _________________________ Mathias Verraes eat.my.shorts@glo.be 'Aequalitas haud parit bellum' _________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:26:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: Re: microtonality via midi -Reply Another flawed approach to achieving microtonality with midi: step 1) play all parts with normal twelve tone equally tempered tonality step 2) save 'baseline' un-retuned version of piece step 3) use a global filter (like the CAL language in cakewalk) to replace all notes with pitch bended note combinations. Here's an example: (C2) ==> (Pitch Mod=0) (C2) (C#2) ===> (Pitch Mod = 13) (C2) (D2) ===> (Pitch Mod = 57) (C2) (Eb2) ===> (Pitch Mod = -2) (C#2) ... step 4) listen back to modified version, refine as necessary by retrieving un-retuned version and repeating steps 3 & 4. disadvantages: batch mode (i.e., can't 'hear' it while your playing it. Not performance oriented monophonic channels only advantages: can experiment with 'retuning' entire piece after it's been oriented) not locked into any 'static' tuning scheme (see example below). takes less time than individually editing each note consistent tuning across all parts easily accomplished ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Example Below: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ With more sophisticated batch filter tuning applicators the tuning mapping could dynamically evolve over time. I mean it could start in one tuning and slowly ease into or converge on another tuning. take a virtual string quartet for instance. At the start of the piece, restrict each instrument to it's own (equal tempered) pentatonic scale spread over multiple octaves: Tuning 'alpha': Note Cello Viola Violin 1 Violin 2 ----- ------ ------- --------- ---------- 1 E G# Bb G 2 G B Db Bb 3 A C# Eb C 4 B Eb F D 5 D F# Ab F At the end of the movement, with dynamic retuning, these scales could have evolved into the following (equal tempered) pentatonic scales: Tuning 'beta': Note Cello Viola Violin 1 Violin 2 ------ ------ ------- --------- ---------- 1 E G# Bb F# 2 F# Bb C A 3 Ab C# D B 4 B Eb F D 5 C# F G E For a movement of duration 'd' in seconds, the instantaneous scaling for the instruments can be determined at any time 't' as follows. y = t/d // y is the fraction of the piece that has elapsed x = 1-y // x is the fraction of the piece remaining at time 't' the tuning for each instrument would be the weighted average of the two tuning schemes (alpha and beta) defined for the instrument. Tuning(scheme, note, instrument) Denote the pitch of note 'n' for instrument 'i' at time 't'' as P(n,i,t) P(n,i,t) = (x) * Tuning(alpha,n,i) + (y) * Tuning(beta,n,i) At the start of the piece, (for the first instant, phrase or measure only) the instruments would be in the alpha tuning. At this time: t=0 y=0 x=1 P(n,i,0) = (1)*Tuning(alpha,n,i) + (0)*Tuning(beta,n,i) = Tuning(alpha,n,i) Then, as the piece unfolds, they would drift away from the alpha tunings towards the beta tunings. At the last instant ( or phrase or measure) of the piece all instruments have converged onto their repective beta tunings. t=m y=1 x=0 P(n,i,m) = (0)*Tuning(alpha,n,i) + (1)*Tuning(beta,n,i) = Tuning(beta,n,i) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:41:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pete Comley Subject: Re: microtonality via midi -Reply There's been talk of late of the Balinese Gamelan 5-note scale in regards to this subject - Can anyone tell me *exactly* which notes (or pitches, anyway) are in it? Say in semitones and cents away from standard western notes? (Is there only one of these scales, or are there several?) I probably won't be using Midi, more likely sampling of some kind...Thanks in advance... Pete ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:00:19 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: FSOL...EMUSIC-L Digest - 1/2 Feb 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin Russ wrote: > I've produced music which has been mastered to a single cassette, and the > source MIDI files were then deleted - making that cassette the only > existence of that music, which makes it potentially pretty ephemeral. I've > also heard about people putting razor blades into cassette cases so that it > splits the tape as it is played (or tiny little magnets to erase the tape), > which makes the music a 'one-time' playback! You're joking about the razor blades and little magnets right? Seems you risk fouling up the cassette deck (or at least requiring a head demagnitizing after playing the tape). -- Jeff. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:08:24 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: Arnold's choice -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry Leigh Britton wrote: > > Robert M. Sanders wrote: > > > > Mark Simon writes: > > < > > I believe that music-making requires 3 agents: a composing agent, a > > performing agent, and a listening agent. > > ... > > Given this 3-way chain of communication, I think music has to have a > > certain level of univerality. If music is entirely personal in meaning, then > > the communication from composer to performer to audience breaks > > down. But since there's such a wide variation among people, true > > universality is never really a possiblity. > > < > > BINGO! Give the man a cigar! > Although this doesn't invalidate the above thesis, in some cultures (Balinese, for example) music is communally made. Everyone is composer, performer, listener, and even instrument maker. Thus there is no separation between artist and audience. In fact, many so called "primitive" cultures spend less time working for their survival. They then have more time for life enrichments--what we westerners call art. It makes you wonder who's really the more primitive culture, us or them. -- Jeff. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:56:15 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Bill is an EE professor at the University of Wisconsin. I've got both his papers on the subject of deriving scales from timbres or the reverse. One paper was published in Electronic Musician and gives results without proof: it includes a Basic program for calculating the dissonance between a scale and timbre. The other paper was published, I believe, in the JASA journal and includes proofs (a much tougher read). I'll post the exact publication information tomorrow. I've tried some of the experiments suggested in his papers and its true: you can hear what he's talking about. BTW, the problem of deriving what timbres to use given a scale is hard: it does not have an analytic solution--Bill suggests using a genetic algorithm to solve it. -- Jeff. David Rodger wrote: > > Bill Sethares presented a very interesting session at ICMC last year about > tuning the harmonics of sounds used in alternative tunings. He demonstrated > that you can haveweird tunings but they sound wrong if they preserve the > usual harmonic structure (whole-number frequency multiples; roughly, that is > -- I know it doesn't always work out that way in 12TET). If you tune the > harmonics in realtion to the scale, it sounds "right" (or a whole lot better, > anyway). UInfotunately, most synths (particularly Nick Rothwell's beloved > sample players :-) ) don't allow one to do this. > > I have no URL for Bill's work and there was no paper in the ICMC proccedings. > I also can't remember where he's from except the Western US. > > Regards, David > musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au > http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 15:50:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: one more thing about my alt.tuning example I wanted to point out that in my concocted alternative tuning example for string quartet based on averaged pentatonics. In the example, I chose the alpha and beta tunings for each instrument so that certain notes were invariant 'pivots' as the tuning transformation unfolds. Instrument invariant 'pivot' notes Cello E, B Viola G#, C#, Eb Violin 1 Bb, F Violin 2 D This allows me to create some tritone like motif based on E major and Bb major with passing tones that intermittently emerges throughout the piece, perhaps in various inversions, tempos, etc. In this manner, I can wed the TET and non-TET components at anytime inside the middle of the piece. Also, note that in each of the endpoint tunings all twelve tones are present, but spread among the instruments like bell-ringers at Christmas. Thus, any TET monotone melody could be included. By carefully constructing the choice of alpha and beta scales (with pivots), and by allowing more complicated weighting functions, I believe this approach could be successfully used to map groups of instruments, each playing a subset of the desired microtonal scale(s) into many interesting, non TET systems and move at will between the systems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:53:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Scott Purman Subject: Re: Alerative tunings If you're interested, you can subscribe to the Alernative Tunings mailing list: ...send an email to: listproc@eartha.mills.edu message: A blank line followed by: SUBSCRIBE TUNING Scott ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:52:57 -0700 Reply-To: krikawa@theriver.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Krikawa Subject: Re: (Fwd) Fwd: Heaviness; Masochism - (funmail) -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Randy Meeker > To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU > Subject: (Fwd) Fwd: Heaviness; Masochism - (funmail) -Reply > And the sky is blue because they ran out of green...come on Dr. Science > what did you get your PhD in ...Art? > > [. . .] because > >absorbing heaviness through the skin can result in depression, a > >natural consequence of working with popular culture in any form. a natural consequence indeed. krikawa@theriver.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: krikawa@theriver.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Krikawa Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've tried some of the experiments suggested in his papers and its true: > you can hear what he's talking about. > > BTW, the problem of deriving what timbres to use given a scale is hard: > it does not have an analytic solution--Bill suggests using a genetic > algorithm to solve it. > > -- Jeff. Perhaps it's hard, but can't one build the timbre from scratch (I know, David, most synths don't allow unusual harmonic additions/subtractions). That would be an interesting thing to try in one of those software synth programs....hmm. krikawa@theriver.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:32:12 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Charles Baker Subject: Re: Alerative tunings >Perhaps it's hard, but can't one build the timbre from scratch (I know, >David, most synths don't allow unusual harmonic additions/subtractions). >That would be an interesting thing to try in one of those software synth >programs....hmm. You bet... but you could also do it with one of the rare "additive synthesis" engines that allow control of individual harmonics in creates sounds...the old Synclavier could do it, I think, and how many old folk out there remember the "Crumar development system" synthesiser? Of course, there maybe more recent synths that allow this kind of sound creation....anyone know of one? CharlieB baker@charlieb.com http://www.charlieb.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:58:04 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Soundwrite@AOL.COM Subject: PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE MAILING LIST PLease Remove Me from the mailing list Thank You, Soundwrite@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:25:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter_Mueller@UCSDLIBRARY.UCSD.EDU Subject: Re[2]: microtonality via midi -Reply Comments: To: PainPete@aol.com PainPete@aol.com asked: >There's been talk of late of the Balinese Gamelan 5-note scale in regards to >this subject - Can anyone tell me *exactly* which notes (or pitches, anyway) >are in it? Say in semitones and cents away from standard western notes? (Is >there only one of these scales, or are there several?) I probably won't be >using Midi, more likely sampling of some kind...Thanks in advance... >Pete The problem is that each individual GAmelan ensemble will have their own tuning. There is no standard AT ALL!! In fact, each group is proud of the individuality of their own tuning, and consider part of the thing that defines the ensemble. One ensemble may have something that sounds like a slightly off western pentatonic, the other like a really screwey and stretched whole tone scale (or maybe a scrunched diminished 7th), etc. Each of these is considered the same 5 note scale, and they may well play the same pieces, even though they sound very different. You might want to look at Colin McPhee's masterful book "Music of Bali" published by Da Capo Press to get some specific tunings. -Peter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:12:22 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: LISTEN/MOVE -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm interested in understanding what makes a process successful in a >multi-disciplinary project. Good people. >For instance, does the music come first and >then suggest the choreography, or the other way around? Any way round, really: I've done improvisations, scores for finished pieces, and various things between. >What guidlines/requirements are formulated before preparing the music? Good people. Seriously: no amount of process or technique is going to make any difference if the dancers are flakes or the choreographer throws tantrums, or doesn't turn up, or whatever. Given that: there are really no hard and fast rules. Every dancer thinks differently, every choreographer thinks differently. Some like to improvise, some are little short of anally retentive in their obsession with detail and polish. The main thing which really dictates the kinds of performance systems I need to build for each project is the balance between timescale (deadlines, working speed) and degree of detail. >Is there evolution in the process from one project to the next? There is, but it's not something I can put into words easily. If anything, it's the usual battle-with-technology thing. I know what I want the technology to do, but it takes me too long to build it. Therefore, I need better tools. >What role does improvisation play in your performances? Again, it depends. Looking over the last year or so, the projects have been pretty fixed in terms of the material (sounds, processes, overall shape and energy) but much more fluid in terms of timing, which allows the dancers some flexibility, and means we can devise cues depending on what's easiest or works best in terms of imagery, causality, whatever. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:28:11 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marcus Hobbs Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 10 Feb 1997 to 11 Feb 1997 In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor "EMUSIC-L Digest - 10 Feb 1997 to 11 Feb 1997" (Feb 11, 1:01am) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:57:29 -0700 > From: Krikawa > Subject: Re: Alerative tunings > > > I've tried some of the experiments suggested in his papers and its true: > > you can hear what he's talking about. you're ahead of me...i'm just now experimenting with timbre based on sethares' paper. the kyma will let you synthesize any set of partials that you want. i'm working with symbolic sound right now on a way to analyze a real time signal, warp it's partials to fit a timbre, and resynthesize it in real time. you should be able to do this with the standard components, but so far i haven't been able to achieve it on my own. there are all sorts of ways to interactively warp spectra in kyma. you can waveshape the spectra, write a function, use a lookup table, etc. marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:13:06 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Ego: the training wheel of creativity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >If you develop a technique for that controller and only >one firm makes it and it goes bankrupt, you could be hosed. Just like with copy-protected music software, really. For that matter, true of most of the electronic instruments we use these days, given the propensity to use custom DSP's. Keeping a Prophet VS working seems to be a bit of a chore from what I hear. Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Leigh Britton Subject: Re: Arnold's choice -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Fried wrote: > > Terry Leigh Britton wrote: > > > > Robert M. Sanders wrote: > > > > > > Mark Simon writes: > > > < > > > I believe that music-making requires 3 agents: a composing agent, a > > > performing agent, and a listening agent. > > > ... > > > Given this 3-way chain of communication, I think music has to have a > > > certain level of univerality. If music is entirely personal in meaning, then > > > the communication from composer to performer to audience breaks > > > down. But since there's such a wide variation among people, true > > > universality is never really a possiblity. > > > < > > > BINGO! Give the man a cigar! > > > Although this doesn't invalidate the above thesis, in some cultures > (Balinese, for example) music is communally made. Everyone is composer, > performer, listener, and even instrument maker. Thus there is no > separation between artist and audience. > > In fact, many so called "primitive" cultures spend less time working for > their survival. They then have more time for life enrichments--what we > westerners call art. It makes you wonder who's really the more > primitive culture, us or them. > > -- Jeff. Primitive cultures don't like change, and in fact may ostracize anyone trying to be too 'different.' Civilized cultures embrace change as a motivating force, and welcome individualism. Give me civilized any day. -- Terry Leigh Britton http://www.rbdc.com/~brittont/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:55:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Terry Leigh Britton Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Baker wrote: > > >Perhaps it's hard, but can't one build the timbre from scratch (I know, > >David, most synths don't allow unusual harmonic additions/subtractions). > >That would be an interesting thing to try in one of those software synth > >programs....hmm. > > You bet... > but you could also do it with one of the rare "additive synthesis" engines > that allow control of individual harmonics in creates sounds...the old > Synclavier could do it, I think, and how many old folk out there remember > the "Crumar development system" synthesiser? Of course, there maybe > more recent synths that allow this kind of sound creation....anyone > know of one? > > CharlieB > baker@charlieb.com > http://www.charlieb.com That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? -- Terry Leigh Britton http://www.rbdc.com/~brittont/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:52:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: George Henry Subject: Re: microtonal harmonics (was Alerative tunings) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:55 PM 2/11/97 -0500, Terry Leigh Britton wrote: >That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a >sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the >fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? Harmonics are no respecters of temperaments, and are *inherently* "microtonal". Instruments which emphasize harmonic overtones, representing small-number frequency ratios of the fundamental, produce readily identifiable pitches, because they give the human hearing apparatus a reasonable set of reference points; instruments which emphasize inharmonic overtones (which are not small-number freq. ratios...) produce less clearly-pitched, "noisier" sounds. (That's the way I read it, and it makes sense....) George Henry Bandana Computer Synergizing Business, Arts, and Technology for the 21st Century http://www.bandanacomputer.com/ "Our goal is to consistently surpass your expectations." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:19:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Michael A. Michalski" Organization: Crescendo Enterprises Subject: Re: Arnold's choice -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Primitive cultures don't like change, and in fact may ostracize anyone > trying to be too 'different.' Civilized cultures embrace change as a > motivating force, and welcome individualism. Give me civilized any day. > -- > > Terry Leigh Britton This is an interesting opinion. Would you mind supporting this? I would like to see where this takes us in the area of present day civilized societies and their corresponding tastes in music as well as their acceptance of electronic art forms. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:22:41 -0500 Reply-To: eplant@erols.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Edward Plant Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry Leigh Britton wrote: > > That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a > sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the > fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? > The way I see it, alternative tunings of fundamental pitches are accomplished by humans mucking with the tuning adjustments on their instruments. Harmonics are created through the laws of physics governing how a stretched string, membrane, hollow tube, etc, will respond when played. So, altering harmonics is tantamount to changing the timbre of the instrument. And when you come right down to it, isn't that essentially all that a synthesizer does? -- Edward Plant, Digital Design Engineer eplant@erols.com Stanford Telecom, AT Annapolis Junction, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: Re: civilization, culture & change I'm comfortable with the image of a thatched hut somewhere with some guy in a loin cloth jamming on a Nord Lead with ear phones. Who was that painter that lived with Van Gogh? Gauguin? I ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:02:09 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: regarding C-sound MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Eric. At ICMC last year, conveners Andrew Horner and Lydia Ayers gave a paper about a book they had written. It might not be out yet, but it is called "Cooking with Csound: Wavetable Synthesis Recipes for Woodwind and e$mu}1}8u2|NxvQt;{2KAE Brass Instruments" (sorry about that; I'm sure you can extract the title from the shit my phone line just threw at me). I don't know whether the book is aimed at Csound novices, or at experienced programmers who want to get into wavetable synthesis. I suspect the latter, given the title. (I didn't attend that sessionn|/ S^Ijm] ). Still, if you can find the Proceedings of ICMC 1996, you might like to read the paper. Or, if anyone sees this book, please report it to the list. Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:07:46 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Marcus Hobbs Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 11 Feb 1997 to 12 Feb 1997 In-Reply-To: Automatic digest processor "EMUSIC-L Digest - 11 Feb 1997 to 12 Feb 1997" (Feb 12, 1:00am) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a > sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the > fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? absolutely. william sethares has published a paper called "local consanance and the theory of timbre and scale" in which he constructs timbres based on scales, and vice versa. the problem of finding a scale based on timbre is "easy". the reverse is "hard" (BIG multi-dimensional search space). interestingly, equal temperament timbre based on the scale turn out to be a special case--the timbre spectra fit on that equal temperament scale. this can be immediately of use to 12tet folks. i'd advise hopping on the alternate tuning list for more details...i'm a musician, not a theorist, so i can't explain this very well. marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:14:10 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Ego: the training wheel of creativity In-Reply-To: from "Nick Rothwell" at Feb 11, 97 08:13:06 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Rothwell writes-- > >For that matter, true of most of the electronic instruments we use these >days, given the propensity to use custom DSP's. Keeping a Prophet VS >working seems to be a bit of a chore from what I hear. It can be. Someone with the right spare parts and a bit of patience can keep one going for years and years, but it wasn't the sort of effort I was willing to invest at this point in my life (especially when I had to pay the rent). Yo, Rothwell: I got rid of my LXP-5 for the same reason! What are YOU gonna wise up? :) mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | NEWS FROM ATOMIC CITY: John 0 welcomes 1997.... info line: 1-800-924-atom | cd orders--> po box 81175 | "Hey, it's been five years, right? pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | Silence ends." or via the worldwide web: | http://pd.net/atomic-city | or phone _lofty pursuits_ | (Be afraid. Be *very* afraid.) toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:17:28 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Are the subjects still debateable? In-Reply-To: <199702092029.VAA24830@phobos.glo.be> from "Verraes" at Feb 9, 97 11:24:03 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Verraes writes-- > >> What you >> appear to want to talk about is electronic musical INSTRUMENTS.... the >> tools, not the task. And that's okay; in fact, there's an entire list >> devoted just to that, our sister list SYNTH-L. > >How do I subscribe for synth-l ? The same way you subscribed to EMUSIC-L, just substitute SYNTH-L where appropriate. mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | NEWS FROM ATOMIC CITY: John 0 welcomes 1997.... info line: 1-800-924-atom | cd orders--> po box 81175 | "Hey, it's been five years, right? pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | Silence ends." or via the worldwide web: | http://pd.net/atomic-city | or phone _lofty pursuits_ | (Be afraid. Be *very* afraid.) toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:21:38 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: New-Guy Question In-Reply-To: <32FD80C3.4476@webspan.net> from "Hal Phillips" at Feb 9, 97 02:46:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hal Phillips writes-- > >I'm new to this list, and I signed up to read more than I did to >write, but to start things off, I have a question. > Well... a question about a question. > I can't be 100% clear about what goes on in this list until I've >read more than about two messages, so I don't want to send an >inappropriate question. So tell me: is it alright to ask questions >about electronic music hardware, or is this list just for talking about >the music itself? Urrrgh. We go back and forth on this a lot. Some people seem to instantly get a feel for what goes where, and others agonize over it while still others post what they want to anywhere they want and ignore the flames they generate (at least until we kick them off). But by and large, the rule of thumb I try to use is: if a particular piece of gear is mentioned anywhere in a post except as a data point within a generality, it's for SYNTH-L. In other words, a thread about microtonality mentioning the Kyma Capybara and the Yamaha DX series as being good machines to explore the subject is okay on EMUSIC-L, but a question involving the DX itself (like "Where do I get patches?" or "How do I fix this bad key?") would be SYNTH-L fodder. Okay? mike (who ought to repost his quiz once in a while) -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | NEWS FROM ATOMIC CITY: John 0 welcomes 1997.... info line: 1-800-924-atom | cd orders--> po box 81175 | "Hey, it's been five years, right? pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | Silence ends." or via the worldwide web: | http://pd.net/atomic-city | or phone _lofty pursuits_ | (Be afraid. Be *very* afraid.) toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Robert M. Sanders" Subject: Re: tunings & harmonics I'm obviously a layperson with this and am unfamiliar with the standard terminology and theory, but being 'in tune' to me implies matching your primary frequency to an overtone of a reference pitch so as to eliminate the phase cancellation effect by reducing the beat frequency of the phase cancellation to zero. Forgive me if my description is awkward. By beat frequency I mean the timing between phase cancellations between the two sound sources. As the two sources become in-tune, the beat frequency goes to zero, the time between beats goes to infinity and the phase cancellation disappears. I can accept alternative non twelve tone equally tempered scales, but the underlying phase cancellation & resonant frequency physics are like gravity. There not imaginary, culturally generated aesthetical concepts. They are real enough to bring bridges down if non taken into account. I don't see how you could alter the physical characteristics of an isolated vibration by assuming it's embedded in a different tuning structure. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:52:17 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: Alerative tunings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry Leigh Britton wrote: > > Charles Baker wrote: > > > > >Perhaps it's hard, but can't one build the timbre from scratch (I know, > > >David, most synths don't allow unusual harmonic additions/subtractions). > > >That would be an interesting thing to try in one of those software synth > > >programs....hmm. > > > > You bet... > > but you could also do it with one of the rare "additive synthesis" engines > > that allow control of individual harmonics in creates sounds...the old > > Synclavier could do it, I think, and how many old folk out there remember > > the "Crumar development system" synthesiser? Of course, there maybe > > more recent synths that allow this kind of sound creation....anyone > > know of one? > > > > CharlieB > > baker@charlieb.com > > http://www.charlieb.com > > That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a > sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the > fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? > You can stretch or compress the partials or remap them by an arbitrary mapping. Alternatively, you can use objects that aren't strings or columns. Lord Rayleigh made a study of vibration of different shaped membranes and solid objects in the 19th century. For example, a rectangular membrane's harmonics are given by (I think this is right, I'm giving the formula of the top of my head): F0 * SQRT(n*n/N*N + m*m/M*M) where F0 = fundamental, N, M are the lengths of the sides of the rectangle and n,m are the partial numbers and can take the values 0, 1, 2, ... . For a square this reduces to F0 * SQRT(n*n + m*m) The harmonics that are integer multiples of F0 involve nodal lines dividing one of the sides, for example if N is the longer side and M is the shorter, the partial (2,0) would be the nodal line dividing the longer side in half. On the other hand, non-integer harmonics correspond nodal lines along the diagonal. -- Jeff. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:01:52 -0800 Reply-To: jefff@dgii.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff Fried Organization: digi international Subject: Re: microtonal harmonics (was Alerative tunings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Henry wrote: > > At 09:55 PM 2/11/97 -0500, Terry Leigh Britton wrote: > > >That makes me wonder... can you 'alternatively tune' the HARMONICS in a > >sound? Does microtonality apply to the elements of a sound beyond the > >fundamental level? Is this worth looking into? Has it been looked into? > > Harmonics are no respecters of temperaments, and are *inherently* > "microtonal". Instruments which emphasize harmonic overtones, representing > small-number frequency ratios of the fundamental, produce readily > identifiable pitches, because they give the human hearing apparatus a > reasonable set of reference points; instruments which emphasize inharmonic > overtones (which are not small-number freq. ratios...) produce less > clearly-pitched, "noisier" sounds. > > (That's the way I read it, and it makes sense....) > Actually, both Sethares and Pierce have proved that this is not the case. As I mentioned in a previous post, I've tried some of the experiments and can actually hear it. Here's a small experiment to try: take two sine waves and tune them a (tempered) major seventh apart. Now play each of the tempered intervals: the major seventh will sound consonant while the octave will sound dissonant. What makes noise is non-discrete partials, eg the frequency spectrum is a continum (with possible holes). -- Jeff. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:45:18 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Brian Good Subject: Re[2]: microtonality via midi -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter_Mueller offered: >PainPete@aol.com asked: > >>There's been talk of late of the Balinese Gamelan 5-note scale in regards to >>this subject - Can anyone tell me *exactly* which notes (or pitches, anyway) >>are in it? > The problem is that each individual GAmelan ensemble will have their > own tuning. There is no standard AT ALL!! In fact, each group is proud > of the individuality of their own tuning, and consider part of the > thing that defines the ensemble. One ensemble may have something that > sounds like a slightly off western pentatonic, the other like a really > screwey and stretched whole tone scale (or maybe a scrunched > diminished 7th), etc. Each of these is considered the same 5 note > scale, and they may well play the same pieces, even though they sound > very different. You might want to look at Colin McPhee's masterful > book "Music of Bali" published by Da Capo Press to get some specific > tunings. This puts me in mind of Native American flute music in southwestern NA. The story is that each would-be flautist built his own instrument, using measurements taken from his own body for length, tone hole spacing etc. The result was that each player's instrument was different in pitch from everyone else's, which, presumably, explains why you seldom hear Native American all-flute marching bands. Brian Good W: bgood@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov H: bgood@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:09:51 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "William SAAD @EVT 7(883)-5576" Subject: How does the Crybaby work ? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, I recently came across the schematic of the Crybaby Wah-Wah pedal. It looked simple enough with its two transitors. When I tried to understand how it worked ... it started getting hairy ... It seems there is more to this circuit than meets the eye. I assumed it was a notch filter with a sliding center frequency. But What I find most puzzling is the fact that the frequency control is a potentiometer (R), when the actual filter seems to be an LC type. OR is it ? Mmm... Since the design has become a great classic, some amateurs out there must know how it actually works ? Thanks in advance William ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:49:36 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: William B Fox Subject: EMUSIC Playlist Playlist for "EMUSIC" on WDIY-FM, Allentown 88.1 FM in Allentown/Bethleham and 93.9 FM in Easton/Phillipsburg Show #4 February 13, 1997. Host: Bill Fox This show is the second in a month-long focus on the emusic scene in the Netherlands. Each week, a CD will be featured at midnight. In addition, Bionaut and The Ministry of Inside Things (C. Van Zyl/P. Gulch) were played in order to plug the upcoming Star's End Gatherings each will be playing next month. ARTIST TRACK ALBUM (label) ----------------------- ----------------------- ------------------------------- 11:00 pm S. Roach/V. Obmana AscensionForProtection Cavern of Sirens (Projekt) Bionaut BarnModulatedTranceDirgeAu Naturel (Tiny Bubbles) C. Van Zyl/P. Gulch Regeneration Mode Regeneration Mode (Synkronos) Todd Fletcher Sand Ocean Byzantium (Dervish Music Works) Vox Orbita Vox 4 - Red Hot Engine Vox Orbita (Quirk Works Lab.) S. Roach/R. Rich Love Magick Soma (HOS) 12:00 am Various Artists X-truders Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) Various Artists Beyond Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) Various Artists Superficial Analysis Of Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) The Unsound Mind Various Artists Borderline Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) Various Artists High Speed X-ing; The Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) Pattern of Believe Various Artists The Machine Out There Lies the Truth (Cue) 1:00 am Sign off