========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:13:12 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff McCann Subject: Re: favorite emusic In-Reply-To: <3456A4C6.2E782DB1@mail.telepac.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:51 AM 10/29/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Jeff, > >> Most of what I get that closely resembles Electronic would be more of >> the commercialized bands, like prodigy and chemical bros. So I would >> like to hear a little bit of the underground. > >I must say that none of the bands I mentioned resemble even remotely >what is generally called "underground." The material tends more to the >avant-garde genre of music/emusic, i.e. the electronic music of the 50s, >but obviously under a new perspective. > >I will then send you over a few days (if you don't mind) a few excerpts >of the music. It is Propeller Island and Psychophysicists. Do you want >Download too? And the composers I mentioned (Xenakis, Harvey, Nono)? > >What size of file do you prefer? Do you have any restrictions in size >for your mailbox? I ask you this because it is usually necessary to >send files between 1 MB and 2 MB, i.e. 1 min to 2 min of music, for them >to make any sense. > >All the best. >-- > __|__ >___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 > That sounds great! I would be glad to recieve the files! No restrictions. My mailbox is pretty easy-going. Thanks for your help! Jeff ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:15:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Jeff McCann Subject: Re: am3r!kkka In-Reply-To: <199710290325.VAA09700@huitzilo.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:37 PM 10/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:52:26 -0700 >From: Bill Meikle >Subject: re: QTVR CONTEST = AMERICA ONLY !!! > > > > I have a residence in the U.S. but I'm Canadian. It's a cottage, >but it's uh...a legal residence. > Is that OK? > > If allowed to enter the contest I want to do a VR presentation >called: > > Microsoft is to computers, > as the U.S. is to the world... > > A large bullying force that insists on using it's dominance to >alter all rules in its favour... > > (sorry all ye good yanks, still smarting from having my rivers >plundered of salmon all summer by U.S. fishermen who 'legally' consider >my home to be somehow theirs to rape...) > > I travelled for several years to see if the world I learned about >from (mostly U.S.) T.V. was the real world. > > It wasn't. > The average person is not Mr. Brady, but a peasant farmer who >makes about $350 U.S./year... > What a suprise! > > That media distorted the world. > > Will this one too? > > World Wide Web. World Wide Web.World Wide Web.World Wide Web.World >Wide Web.World Wide Web.World Wide Web.World Wide Web. > > > I remeber when I grew to be 6'4" my ice hockey coach told me >'you're the biggest now, you have the choice to be the bully, or the >true gentleman leader...' > > Choose the latter. You are Apple, not Microsoft. Make the contest >global. To hell with the door prizes... > > >- -- > Bill Meikle > Deep Forest Multimedia > Paradise Valley, B.C. Canada > Holy Cow. ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:18:20 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: (message from Integrated Rhythm & Noise on Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:11:48 -0500) > it's not the education > it's the age > most people, the older they get, the scareder they get This is ageist bullshit. People become scared when they get into indefensible positions and feel threatened. This is the case in a lot of the arts administration, and also in many over-hyped performance companies run by relatively young people. It's nothing to do with age, although this kind of blanket condemnation is one which is most often made by the young. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:00:17 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: age = visible Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> it's not the education >> it's the age >> most people, the older they get, the scareder they get > >This is ageist bullshit. ecsamplary vokab - dze suxing akademik elite. fuk frell+e. 4 fukx sake. winmail dat. hormonal disturbanssez. generall+e 1 maskulin okkupat!on. >People become scared when they get into >indefensible positions and feel threatened. ha.venderful logik. >This is the case in a lot >of the arts administration, and also in many over-hyped performance >companies run by relatively young people. -This is ageist bullshit_ >It's nothing to do with age, ha.venderful logik. leaking integerz. >although this kind of blanket condemnation is one which is most often >made by the young. -This is ageist bullshit_ leaking integerz. forever enclosed.in m.binar+e reverie u-k.d-k. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:05:13 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: revue de reflexions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Focus on SuperCollider >>Weekend Tutorial and Conference on Sound Synthesis and Processing: > >And the rest of this was in reverse order, too. obfuscation not efficient. tzo. there4 != obfuskation. >What possible reason other >than bloody-mindedness could one have for doing this? bloody-mindedness != reazon [lak ov elektricit+e] realit+e = 2komplecx 4 oral kommunikat!on. >>_\- kuest!onz.!ssue !nstrukt1onz.ekspress feel1ngz. zuperb. > >Note that in the second half of this line, ! becomes 1 for "i". note dat !n dze absenss ov qoutez !n dze Focus on SuperCollider !ntell1gent algor|thm. >Clearly, >there is no consistent application or rationale in antiorp's textual >practice. [me!n kampf] kons!stentl+e. konstant.bzump. [4f.kx.sake] w!ntel dat. even dze mozt flagrant !rrationalit+e konta!nz som fragment ov dze rational. >Most of this arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation arroganss + self !ndulgent b.hav!or. = dze gift ov a super1or spirit [exagoge] !n an+e kass. obfuskation. dat which kcan b proven = sensslesz. >is not germane to the >list anyway. (Or, if it is, no one can tell!) (This is a separate issue >from the presumed talent, to which I have referred previously.) referenss + debugging guide 4 dze human m9ndkonta!nr. "I'd bet for techno music you could get pretty good lossless compression, as the compression is based on repeated data." "I'd bet for techno music you could get pretty good lossless compression, as the compression kuantizd m9nd konta!nr aktivit+e. is based on repeated data." oDr pleonazm _||- "I'd bet for techno music you could get pretty good lossless compression, as the compression is based on repeated data." "I'd bet for techno music you could get pretty good lossless compression, as the compression is based on repeated data." kamfbereit() ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:55:48 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: age = visible In-Reply-To: <199710291047.EAA18818@huitzilo.tezcat.com> (message from =cw4t7abs on Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:00:17 -0600) > ecsamplary vokab - dze suxing akademik elite. Are you accusing me of being part of the academic elite, Antiorp? I'm not sure if you are, because I often find your trendy techno-esperanto almost incomprehensible. > >People become scared when they get into > >indefensible positions and feel threatened. > > ha.venderful logik. What's your problem with this? > >This is the case in a lot > >of the arts administration, and also in many over-hyped performance > >companies run by relatively young people. > > -This is ageist bullshit_ On the contrary: my point was that some "young" (in terms of members) companies are also defensive. > >It's nothing to do with age, > > ha.venderful logik. What's your problem with *this*? > >although this kind of blanket condemnation is one which is most often > >made by the young. > > -This is ageist bullshit_ I think you'll find that it's the young who most often criticise the old (and vice versa). What you'll also find is that many promotional companies will only promote artists who are under a certain age (typically 25). Admittedly, this is almost always for pop, which isn't directly related to anything artistic, but it's also true in terms of sponsorship of "young artists" in the visual and some of the performance arts. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:04:55 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "biwa.or.jp" Subject: help me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Please tell me How to unsubscribe this mailing list! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:56:18 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: morethanone Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 28 Oct 1997 to 29 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <199710290600.BAA16289@atlanta.american.edu> David Rodger wrote: > > Focus on SuperCollider > >Weekend Tutorial and Conference on Sound Synthesis and Processing: > > And the rest of this was in reverse order, too. What possible reason other > than bloody-mindedness could one have for doing this? Clearly a thinly-veiled cry for help. Or perhaps rather an outre bon vivant pseudo-Rimbaudian dialectic of phantasmagoric gothic idiosyncratic orgasme. Or perhaps only a load of impish caca. > "I'd bet for techno music you could get pretty good lossless compression, > as the compression is based on repeated data." I ran into a 4K zipped MIDI the other day that inflated to 395K. Unsuprisingly there weren't many surprises in it. -- Tony SSS MIDI Rock Mac "What's another word for Thesaurus?" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:50:10 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 28 Oct 1997 to 29 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <19971029055618333694@sense-sea-pm10-11.oz.net> (message from morethanone on Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:56:18 -0800) > I ran into a 4K zipped MIDI the other day that inflated to 395K. > Unsuprisingly there weren't many surprises in it. That'll be a hot track from one of the up-and-coming underground club cultures. I think the musical genre is referred to as DRUM'N'BLANK. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kevin Bennett <_Kev@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Roland MPU 401 Help Needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I'm Kevin Bennett if anyone out there knows about the Roland mpu. When I go to perform a bulk load, I get an error message saying, "mpu 401= detected, but no interrupt found". = Anyone got any ideas? Thanks, Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:20:34 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: am3r!kkka Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:52:26 -0700 >From: Bill Meikle >Subject: re: QTVR CONTEST = AMERICA ONLY !!! > > But where's the ObEmCon? David Rodger, "I'd bet for techno music you Audio Engineer: could get pretty good lossless Recording, Editing, Mastering compression, as the compression Lifeguard and Lifeguard Trainer is based on repeated data." Phone: +61-3-9459-1898 -- Michael Conlen ------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au (please use this address) OLD EMAIL: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au (active for a little while) http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ MOTION CAPTURE IN MUSIC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:43:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >You don't have to be very old to be afraid of either success or failure. I agree. I was actually referring to fear of change, fear of feeling uncomfortable, or fear acknowledging that a young person could be right. Not all older people are this way, but enough of them are this way to make many younger people, especially artists, feel really oppressed. paula ======================================================================= Visit synthmuseum.com the largest online museum of vintage electronic musical instruments at: http://www.synthmuseum.com presented by New Silver Age Productions and Integrated Rhythm & Noise ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: <19971029101820.7358.qmail@wyvis.an-teallach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> it's not the education >> it's the age >> most people, the older they get, the scareder they get > >This is ageist bullshit. People become scared when they get into >indefensible positions and feel threatened. This is the case in a lot >of the arts administration, and also in many over-hyped performance >companies run by relatively young people. It's nothing to do with age, >although this kind of blanket condemnation is one which is most often >made by the young. > OK. If what I said above offends you so much, I will clarify. I've no clue how old you are, but you seem to have taken some personal offense here. This is based on my experience of older people. I cannot say for sure whether the fear increases with age, or whether it's linked to the era in which a person grew up. Only time will tell whether those of us born in and after the 1960's ever get as fearful as the children of the depression got. I doubt it. paula ======================================================================= Visit synthmuseum.com the largest online museum of vintage electronic musical instruments at: http://www.synthmuseum.com presented by New Silver Age Productions and Integrated Rhythm & Noise ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:42:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? ==========================|============================= Integrated Rhythm & Noise | paula@irnoise.com 1568B Commonwealth Avenue | http://www.irnoise.com Brighton, MA 02135 | (617) 739-2686 ==========================|============================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:58:34 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Guy Van Belle Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation hihi, hoity-toidy - where did you learn to write this, nigel? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:48:47 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Clive McFarland Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? > Offensive, no. Frustrating, yes. Because there's always the possibility that hidden in the detritus is a little nugget of pure gold. I choose not to sift through the dirt, and therefore risk missing the vein of enlightenment. Perhaps others make more of an effort (or maybe find it less hard work) and are upset when they come up empty-handed. ObEmCon: anyone want to nominate an emusic analogue? Ie a piece where the listener has to sort through a lot of garbage to find the gem. And if so, was it worth the effort? And can the gem be removed from its surroundings and retain its beauty, or is its value a reflection of its context? Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive.mcfarland@molsci.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:59:37 +0000 Reply-To: verne@warwick.net Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: verne@WARWICK.NET Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation > > why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? > > ==========================|============================= > Integrated Rhythm & Noise | paula@irnoise.com > 1568B Commonwealth Avenue | http://www.irnoise.com > Brighton, MA 02135 | (617) 739-2686 > ==========================|============================= > > Well one reason would be; not everyone has the time to decipher his messages. And when you do figure them out, you realize you just wasted precious seconds. Not that everyone else who posts are so engrossing. Its just that when you have a limited amount of time to read your mail, it just doesn't pay to figure out what he's saying. I've had him set on auto delete for the last two months. But offensive? I think not. _ __ ___ | | / /_verne@warwick.net / _ | | |/ // -_)/ __// _ \/ -_) / __ | _ |___/ \__//_/ /_//_/\__/ /_/ |_|(_) Home Page http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/9335 ICQ pager http://wwp.mirabilis.com/189699 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:23:17 -0800 Reply-To: steven@amazon.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steven Schardt Organization: Amazon.com Subject: Re: movie is visible music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i, a young person, am searching for any information, url's, books, pamphlets, etc., pertaining to digital sound libraries and/or synths on the web. keyword: free. while i am admittedly new to emusic (and the list), i appreciate any time investment you can offer on my behalf. need cool sounds. drums and percussive sounds mostly, but high-pitched wheezes and timbral tessalations are well-received. scattershot suggestions welcome. mouse on mars has a particularly good album, and the liner notes to djspooky's -songs of a dead dreamer- offer a pretty good (but pedantic) introduction to the kinds of things i've been thinking about. likes: wittgenstein calculators that think small letters dislikes: the usual gripes moo-shoo seal there's my 36-24-36. please contact me if you'd like to speak about emusic and its antecedents/ramifications. ta, s) Integrated Rhythm & Noise wrote: > > >You don't have to be very old to be afraid of either success or failure. > > I agree. I was actually referring to fear of change, fear of feeling > uncomfortable, or fear acknowledging that a young person could be right. > Not all older people are this way, but enough of them are this way to make > many younger people, especially artists, feel really oppressed. > > paula > > ======================================================================= > Visit synthmuseum.com > > the largest online museum of vintage electronic musical instruments at: > http://www.synthmuseum.com > presented by New Silver Age Productions and Integrated Rhythm & Noise -- s t e v e n schardt %v 206 . 694 . 2214 %f 206 . 694 . 2100 %e s t e v e n @ a m a z o n . c o m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Robert Edgar Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>You don't have to be very old to be afraid of either success or failure. > >I agree. I was actually referring to fear of change, fear of feeling >uncomfortable, or fear acknowledging that a young person could be right. >Not all older people are this way, but enough of them are this way to make >many younger people, especially artists, feel really oppressed. > OK. I'm coming at this from a different perspective: I'm in my forties, and have a 14-year old daughter (and 8-year old son) who are coming into the world. I see my job to have them assured enough of themselves, and lovingly engaged enough with their media and lives, so that they'll remain healthily creative far into the future. I'm not teaching them to be creative, just helping them learn to retain their creativity in the face of whatever the world throws at them. Some of the shit that gets thrown at them comes from idiot teachers--no doubt about that. A lot comes from the entertainment industry. I believe the most devastating and sustained pressure to conform (which is one way to protect oneself from the raw edge of change) is from peers. And of course, once out and into the workplace (be it for a gallery, grant, or corporation) you're not gonna get a job if someone older than you already has it--and is protecting it. Just physics: if they're in your way, you're gonna collide. In short, I think an artist is pushed to conform by almost everyone, friend and foe, old and young. To survive as an artist, he or she has to nurture an aesthetic relationship with life, dispite everything. I always liked the subtitle of Herzog's film "Every Man for Himself, and God Against All." And then, of course, there's Varese. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:23:41 UT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Snell Subject: Re: movie is visible music >. If what I said above offends you so much, I will clarify. I've no >clue how old you are, but you seem to have taken some personal ... in which a person grew up. Only time will tell whether those of us born in and after the 1960's ever get as fearful as the children of the depression got. I doubt it. paula "hope I die before I get old" The Who (as if you needed this) Ms ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:13:18 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: movie is visible music mark, >>There's certainly some merit in this? >>viewpoint, and it might be useful for Yeoun to grit his teeth and learn how >>operate under that constraint. cool. perhaps that's why schools and teachers are for. actually, for me, who don't even really know the philip glasses masterpiece or whatever, already a lot of movies that are exist are visible music. dialogue or lines or whatever are also *music* in the *movie*. basically, the process to express anything with audio itself is music. listen to the lines of any movie. when writers write something for movie, their way to write is a lot different then when they talk or write a letter and stuff. even though it is very realistic movie that try to express actual world as perfect as possible, still they refine every single word, relocate them to the place that they think SOUNDS better, and try to make em as "sounz cool" as they can. cuz in the movie, dialogs are not the matter of speaking any more. that's a part of music that leads the whole story. and then, they say, *SOUNZ ASSIST IMAGES* oh, la, la, just a GGGGRRREEAATTT CONTRAAAAADICTION! only thing i 've done was, just minimizing another part of music(narration), and maximized the other part of music(soundtrack). that's all. ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:15:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: movie is visible music joe M, thanx for the info. cool. =)) ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: movie is visible music >>Actually, the more educated tend to exhibit less dogmaticalness and >>more dogmatism. hahaha =D =D =D.. XP ... +( >>It's what I've been saying for years about literal images versus >>imagery. Imagery works in multiple directions between any combinations >>of media. Of course, this implies a breaking down of barriers between >>media, damn! that's what i believe!! cool. =))) >>nd that is always a threat to the small-minded and >>unimaginative. It sounds as if your professor has this problem. despairing thing is... those narrow-minded are the majority of this world. if they were minority, all earthians already visited mars long ago and took a snap shot with aliens. ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:46:03 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: age = visible nick, don't take cw4t7 too seriously. i think he has his own language as all others do. and now i think i was a bit narrow minded too. age, education, both are not the real culprit. that's ultra age/educational matter. just majority's problem. yes, i will get old, i will get educated unecessarily, and even right this moment i am aging and gettin educated, but i will not be participated in those bunch of narrow minded morons group even though i become 79 years old super educated old dork. i don't understand most of cw4t7 but i think he's cool. something indecipherable always shows another possibilty in some way. =P ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales >>why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? y do u wana know that? =P ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:24:37 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: Re: movie is visible music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Schardt wrote: > timbral tessalations are well-received. What is a timbral tessalation [sic]? -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:11:18 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales ><> > c'est l'aniversaire de quelqu'un? =P a bientot. =) ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:12:09 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mateusz Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Integrated Rhythm & Noise wrote: > > > why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so > offensive? the question could be, why do they insist on pontificating, rather than discussing emusic? perhaps antiorp is a web robot, created to give the citizens something to discuss? mateusz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:41:09 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: muzik = !nvisibl f!lm .70km ov stunn.d humanz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>nd that is always a threat to the small-minded and >>>unimaginative. It sounds as if your professor has this problem. > >despairing thing is... those narrow-minded are the majority of this >world. != >>>Actually, the more educated tend to exhibit less dogmaticalness >and >>>more dogmatism. >hahaha =D =D =D.. XP ... +( >if they were minority, all earthians already visited mars >long ago and took a snap shot with aliens. humanzsuk. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:43:39 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offens= ive? >> >Offensive, no. Frustrating, yes. Because there's always the possibility >that hidden in the detritus is a little nugget of pure gold. a 9 f f [ 1nz onl+e rezponzibilit+e =3D 2rema!n !rresponz!bl ] >I choose not >to sift through the dirt, and therefore risk missing the vein of >enlightenment. Perhaps others make more of an effort (or maybe find it >less hard work) and are upset when they come up empty-handed. ele. eu o conhe=E7o. p conhe=E7o eu. ele. eu o conhe=E7o, ele. ele o conhe=E7o. eu. >ObEmCon: anyone want to nominate an emusic analogue? Ie a piece where the >listener has to sort through a lot of garbage to find the gem. a lot =3D=3D garbage not a lot =3D=3D gem log!kl. >And if so, >was it worth the effort? humanzsuk -\_ je.tu.il.elle. gem =3D=3D garbage + not -\_ a lot + a lot + not =3D tout \ 0 |=D8 F =D8 =D8 =D8 3| engl!sch =3D=3D a lot bzzp.am3r!kkasug3r. evryth!ng.haz b!n said prov!dd wordz do not change their zgninaem. + meaningz the!rz wordz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:22:34 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: (message from Integrated Rhythm & Noise on Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:43:48 -0500) > I agree. I was actually referring to fear of change, fear of feeling > uncomfortable, or fear acknowledging that a young person could be right. > Not all older people are this way, but enough of them are this way to make > many younger people, especially artists, feel really oppressed. Interesting. My take as a somewhat older person is that the young's obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them (techno, Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those like myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. Comments? -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:29:12 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] In-Reply-To: (message from Integrated Rhythm & Noise on Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0500) > I cannot say for sure whether the fear increases with age, or > whether it's linked to the era in which a person grew up. I'm not aware of any clinical condition which relates fear of change to chronological age. Era in which a person grew up? Possibly, and that hadn't occurred to me. I was born in 1960 and spent my early childhood in central London during the swinging 60's, and it's an experience I'll always treasure. (Those who weren't there should go and rent some videos of The Avengers. Avoid Austin Powers at all costs.) I think more relevant is that people invest their security in indefensible attitudes and approaches which they are then called upon to defend to protect their status and world view. I see this in the Arts scene all the time. Sorry I snapped at you. As you can see, I am also defensive, particularly against attitudes which seem to suggest that only the young have something creative to give, and that this creativity and rebellion against the establishment is something that we are considered to have lost by the time we're 30. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:30:57 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: (message from Clive McFarland on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:48:47 +1000) > ObEmCon: anyone want to nominate an emusic analogue? Ie a piece where the > listener has to sort through a lot of garbage to find the gem. Beaubourg by Vangelis. (The gem is about two minutes into Part 2.) -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:50:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >"hope I die before I get old" The Who (as if you needed this) Ms the baby boomers trapped in the middle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: <19971030112234.14993.qmail@wyvis.an-teallach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >young's >obsession with new fashionable ideas this sounds like a stereotype to me how young do you mean when you say young? ==========================|============================= Integrated Rhythm & Noise | paula@irnoise.com 1568B Commonwealth Avenue | http://www.irnoise.com Brighton, MA 02135 | (617) 739-2686 ==========================|============================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:38:19 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] In-Reply-To: <19971030112912.15018.qmail@wyvis.an-teallach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sorry I snapped at you. snap forgiven >> I cannot say for sure whether the fear increases with age, or >> whether it's linked to the era in which a person grew up. >I was born in 1960 so you're younger than I had thought you might be. sounds like you're already feeling the prejudices of the very young. at 31, I haven't encountered that yet, but I still feel bitterly the prejudices of my grandparents, my parents, my schoolteachers. >something that we are >considered to have lost by the time we're 30. maybe this is used against men more than women. self-determined women tend to bloom later in the arts, because we have the added task of finding our self-determination, usually beginning after 25. ==========================|============================= Integrated Rhythm & Noise | paula@irnoise.com 1568B Commonwealth Avenue | http://www.irnoise.com Brighton, MA 02135 | (617) 739-2686 ==========================|============================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:55:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DR STEPHEN WEINSTOCK Subject: Music Notation Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: Steve Weinstock * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- Does anyone know of a PC utility that will put a midi file into musical notation and create a staff that can be cut-and-pasted into other documents? (While Cakewalk Professional for Windows 3.0 will notate and print midi files, it cannot save musical noattion to either a file or to the clipboard?) Thanks for any help? ---Steve Weinstock ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:09:49 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: William_B_Fox Subject: Wrong Side of the Bed... >Subject: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:04:55 -0000 >From: "biwa.or.jp" >Subject: help me > >Please tell me >How to unsubscribe this mailing list! Pull the plug on your computer and withhold all future payments to your ISP... or send "unsub" to the majordomo. ------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:20:30 -0500 >From: Kevin Bennett <_Kev@COMPUSERVE.COM> >Subject: Roland MPU 401 Help Needed > >Hello, I'm Kevin Bennett if anyone out there knows about the Roland mpu. Who are you if nobody out there knows about the Roland mpu? ------------------------------ >Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:48:47 +1000 >From: Clive McFarland >Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales > >>why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? > >Offensive, no. Frustrating, yes. Because there's always the possibility >that hidden in the detritus is a little nugget of pure gold. I choose not >to sift through the dirt, and therefore risk missing the vein of >enlightenment. Perhaps others make more of an effort (or maybe find it >less hard work) and are upset when they come up empty-handed. > >ObEmCon: anyone want to nominate an emusic analogue? Ie a piece where the >listener has to sort through a lot of garbage to find the gem. And if so, >was it worth the effort? And can the gem be removed from its surroundings >and retain its beauty, or is its value a reflection of its context? > >Regards > >Clive > >Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive.mcfarland@molsci.csiro.au Sort through CDs at the mall. Sort through the music on pop radio. Sort through acedemic music. Sort through life. Antiorp is merely an extreme case. Most people choose not to sort through and decipher that which is beyond their comfort level for expending effort and reap a percieved amount of benefit, or lack thereof. ------------------------------ >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:46:03 -0500 >From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD >Subject: Re: age = visible > >nick, > >i don't understand most of cw4t7 but i think he's cool. something >indecipherable always shows another possibilty in some way. =P > >yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? The crypt key is anti-antiorp... begin 644 orp M3<+QZ,]JWT[6GP=OE=N:@)MQ+U*"<7G3\:S#>G2/]'A?9]N))^F&V]UNAH_Y M^-(%9U>RP4__.QP4/AKC5[?VC;0)-MB#CH#< HT+N1>)MBMJ4 YZY!(L=D&" M"@F/=%H \)TG[MU;Q2=0\8!$7)H%+^X][-ZAI+H7)@.ND[:T.%F=\#KM(^OV 8+TB?GOAS;+0S0 %[M&6C$*0L-[0GT9/9 end ------------------------------ >End of EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 >*************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:13:34 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: morethanone Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <199710300600.BAA29456@atlanta.american.edu> > I cannot say for > sure whether the fear increases with age, or whether it's linked to the era > in which a person grew up. Only time will tell whether those of us born in > and after the 1960's ever get as fearful as the children of the depression > got. I doubt it. Of all the lists, music lists should be the last where the young/old question is necessary. One of my favorite symphonies was written by a 9-year-old. My favorite quartets were written by a 55-year-old. Was the depression more fear-inducing than the "duck and cover" era? Was "duck and cover" worse than drive-by shootings? Why do we seek such qualifications? When I wander the streets looking into people's faces, I see killed souls of all ages. There is no time for empty recriminations. Look around: young souls are being killed every day. Those of us who somehow survived that process -- which has always been around, which is part of the fabric of the world -- care deeply about those who are struggling with it. Take strength from that if you can. Persevere. ~~ Tony SSS MIDI Rock Mac ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:37:27 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <199710300613341920813@sense-sea-pm7-6.oz.net> (message from morethanone on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:13:34 -0800) > Of all the lists, music lists should be the last where the young/old > question is necessary. Problem is, the music industry dominates our culture's notions of music, and the music industry is obsessed with age since it determines so much about their market demographics. That's why you can't be considered a pop musician after you're 25, since you're then too old to appeal to the most lucrative sector of the record-buying population. Recommended reading: the current online Freff column: http://www.keyboardmag.com/editdesk/options/fr_options.html. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: movie is visible music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:13 PM 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >mark, > >>>There's certainly some merit in this? >>>viewpoint, and it might be useful for Yeoun to grit his teeth and >learn how >>>operate under that constraint. > >cool. perhaps that's why schools and teachers are for. actually, for >me, who don't even really know the philip glasses masterpiece or >whatever, already a lot of movies that are exist are visible music. >dialogue or lines or whatever are also *music* in the *movie*. >basically, the process to express anything with audio itself is music. > listen to the lines of any movie. when writers write something for >movie, their way to write is a lot different then when they talk or >write a letter and stuff. even though it is very realistic movie that >try to express actual world as perfect as possible, still they refine >every single word, relocate them to the place that they think SOUNDS >better, and try to make em as "sounz cool" as they can. cuz in the >movie, dialogs are not the matter of speaking any more. that's a part >of music that leads the whole story. The good thing here is that you know where you're coming from. You have a concrete idea of what you want your contribution to the finished product to be, and why you want it to be that way, and you're able to articulate it. That's good. Being able to articulate your position is especially important in a collaborative endeavor such as film-making, because when disagreements occur (as they inevitably do when you put 2 or more talented and egotistical people in one room), it's not the person with the best idea who carries the day, but the one who puts up the best argument. So if you can think of it this way, consider that your professor did you a service by forcing you to crystalize your reasoning. Anyone whose ideas go contrary to the prevailing wisdom needs especially to have a heavy-duty arsenal of arguments at their disposal. I have shamelessly used this list as a forum to argue about aesthetics of contemporary music, much to the annoyance of some, but it has proven very useful to me. I've heard every argument under the sun, so nothing surprises me; I have a come-back ready at hand. and then, they say, *SOUNZ >ASSIST IMAGES* oh, la, la, just a GGGGRRREEAATTT CONTRAAAAADICTION! Yeah, it's interesting how much art revolves around resolving contradictions. My medium of choice is musical theater, not film, but here there's a similar conflict of interest: music vs. words. It's theater, so the whole point of it is to tell a story, and in order to tell a story you need words. So the words are the most important part of it, right? (this is what I hear from the playwrights I collaborate with). Well, how come the shows that are most successful are the ones that have the best music? How come people leave the theater humming the tunes not reciting the dialogue? I always insist that the music is the most important part of a musical theater work. And yet when I sit down to write I devote 90% of my attention to setting the words: getting the rhythms to match the natural rhythms of speech, getting the rise and fall of the melody to match the inflections of speech, pacing the delivery of the words so that the singers are neither rushed in their delivery nor bogged down with having to stand around doing nothing because their next line doesn't come for another 3 measures. It turns out that the theatrical music that holds up the best *as music* is that which encompasses the words and the drama, where the words and the drama actually become part of the music. I sense that you envision something similar for cinema. Your problem is going to be that you're always going to run into directors who don't believe that music is capable of being the controlling force which ties the whole narrative experience together. That's because they only think in terms of images, so they can only think of music as some sort of background tinkling that fills in the gaps between lines of dialogue. You've got to be able to convince them that it ain't necessarily so. > only thing i 've done was, just minimizing another part of >music(narration), and maximized the other part of music(soundtrack). >that's all. > >____ >yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:58:45 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: \+\ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > only the > young have something creative to give + lightly p!cking up her dress with her left hand. gradiva rediviva zo=E9 bertgan wrapped !n the dream+e gaze ov hanold with her step supple + trankuil in the bright sunlight striking upon the pavement - passed on dze odr side ov the street. preciss quirkinesz. !rritation. optimizm. sadnesz. anxious ccelf - !nterrogat!on. gol_ gotha youth. !z zo kute - gary lee nelson [1-akademik spank rout!n] [p-un_kT-pr_o-T=96k_oL] =D8 f =D8 =D8 =D8 3 herausgegeben v=F8m internat!onalen !nstitut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sziplin hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp krop3rom_||-a9ff sonic-boom.com/review/kr0p3r0m-1.html cdz _ http://execpc.com/~decibel/feedband.htm live(HAPPILY_EVER_AFTER); } else reply("bla bla bla und bla"); tack.!z.rolig. #include //1 thing u got going 4 u kchr.rr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:12:57 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19971030110920.249fc3c8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> (message from mark simon on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:06:15 -0500) > I sense that you envision something similar for cinema. Your problem is > going to be that you're always going to run into directors who don't believe > that music is capable of being the controlling force which ties the whole > narrative experience together. Also true of dance, to some extent, although the intelligent choreographers I come into contact with are the ones who always immediately and effortlessly acknowledge the importance of music. > It turns out that the theatrical music that holds up the best *as > music* is that which encompasses the words and the drama, where the > words and the drama actually become part of the music. On the other hand, some of the most appropriate soundtrack material for some kinds of dance (the European postmodern/postcrash stuff) is extremely sparse and concrete and wouldn't really stand up to isolated listening. So I wonder if there's a distinction here, or whether Mark and I mean different things by "music". -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: steven@amazon.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Steven Schardt Organization: Amazon.com Subject: Re: movie is visible music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit perhaps i'm being vague. timbral tesselation was the first thing that came to mind in my attempt to articulate my real interest in e-music -- in a sort of flouncy-pouncy sort of way. more vagueness. i've been doing music in a more or less traditional vein for a number of years -- i've sung in jazz ensembles, i've played guitar and bass for alt-rock bands (none you've heard of, i'm sure), and i've done a fair amount of musical theater as an actor. i have been, however, a bit disappointed with the range of expressivity that these more traditional approaches to performance and music have offered (at least to the popular distribution channels), and in part, i am looking for a new set of tools to augment my own expression. a new vocabulary for my composition. i am looking in earnest for sounds. i'd like to learn how to make sounds, alter sounds, quote sounds. this is where the timbral "tessalation" [sic sic] comes in. i need a library. check them out, listen to them, use them. from there i will start to manufacture my own . sounds = bands = genres = ? i don't want to be restrictive here. we've (the big we) gone a long way in music w.r.t. melody, harmony, structure, but my primary concern is texturality (timbral qualities) and rhythms: voila e-music! -- not that this can't be accomplished without new technologies (emphasis on new), but ceratinly the bulk of this work that i am familiar with can be found in this genre. so, from someone ignorant of the genre (and probably to most "cutting-edge" developments in music (as we all are)), i'm asking "where do i find resources about 'sounds' (or anything else in e-music, for that matter)"? simultaneously, i am also asking "am i asking the right questions?" thanks in advance for your assistance. grasshopper Paulo Mouat wrote: > > Steven Schardt wrote: > > timbral tessalations are well-received. > > What is a timbral tessalation [sic]? > -- > __|__ > ___\_/___ > ___ Paulo Mouat, > |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt > |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 -- s t e v e n schardt %v 206 . 694 . 2214 %f 206 . 694 . 2100 %e s t e v e n @ a m a z o n . c o m ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:29:53 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Music Notation Utility Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, Try MidiSofts, Desktop Sheet Music. About $70. Lots of options and nice layout choices. Happy Sounds Timothy Kelly MidiVox MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. Hum, Sing, Scat, Rap, Talk, Croon. BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. AES Best In Show. EM Editors Choice. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:45:29 +0000 Reply-To: Robinson@ecst.csuchico.edu Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Lawrence Subject: Re: \+\ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, now as poetry I beleive this states the aestetic is appreciative only if the formal form is abandoned so that its language may speak more directly to conciousness. I however, do not see what is has to do with music, electronic or otherwise. Perhaps someone could enlighten me? Meanwhile, did the person who was having trouble with his roland keyboard ever recieve the help he was asking for? L. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:34:37 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: \=\ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Well, now as poetry I beleive this states the aestetic is appreciative >only if the formal form is abandoned so that its language may speak more >directly to conciousness. > I however, do not see what is has to do with music, electronic or >otherwise. tout a rebours + great travellr ov un.travell!ng. 2 ecsper!enss any plass. 2 simpl+e sorround 1n.ccclf w!th dze smellz + sndz. nvr leav!ng dze akkmulator. nvr ecsiting dze sitting struktur. dze ecsper!nss !z all dze mor !ntenss 4 dze !magining + kontecstual propz r mor elaborate than realit+e kould evr b. 1 prev!ous waking state.1 !ntermediar+e konvers!=F8n. k-l!p_|-d-tekt!=F8n. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:27:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: from "Integrated Rhythm & Noise" at Oct 29, 97 05:42:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? When this list started nine years ago, its intention was to promote communication. Linguistic foibles chosen to deliberately obsure meaning work directly against this by making it difficult for ALL readers to understand. antiorp's presentation is, to me, an overemphasized pose; an implied point - that language, whatever language one uses, is insufficient to communicate all truths, per Godel - is certainly true, but I think that the equine in question is definitely dead and hammered into an unattractive pile of raw meat by now. Also, the implication seems to be a sophmorically nihilistic "so why bother - let's deliberately speak gibberish". Language supposedly is a vehicle for communication. What gets communicated is that antiorp is very clever, but is not particularly interested in being clear. Possibly, s/he is interested in pissing in the well to make things unpleasant for everyone - I can't really tell. Any time a serious question is addressed to this point, it is attacked as a conservative attempt to close off free speech, as I expect this one will be as well. The style is inconsistent and deliberately obfuscatory. If one is attempting to communicate, it seems counter-productive to ADD noise to the bandwidth; one hopes that in a communications transaction, that the person one is reading or listening to is actually trying to make him/herself clearly understood. Otherwise, it seems pointless to listen. Last, it comes across as wasting my time for antiorp's amusement. I have insufficient time to invest any of it in communication which does not attempt to be clear. I have absolutely no doubt that anyone capable of the levels of impenetrability that antiorp reaches via a wid-ranging grasp of languages, ideas, and technology is indeed someone who has a lot to say. I just wish that the amount of effort put into obnscuring the text was put into making the communication clear. I have no doubt that someone who can produce antiorp's cacography is capable of producing prose as clear, concise, and transparent as it is now opaque and off-putting. I don't doubt I've probably thrown away information from antiorp that would have been valuable to me. The amount of effort required to extract it is too much for me to find it profitable, especially when a number of other posters have shown themselves capable of communicating similar points clearly AND still making the points they wish to make. If antiorp has a rationale that actually clearly defines, defends, and demonstrates the point that this style is attempting to make, I'd be interested in hearing it. But then, if it was explained clearly, there wouldn't be any reason to bother doing it, I suppose. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: movie is visible music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On the other hand, some of the most appropriate soundtrack material >for some kinds of dance (the European postmodern/postcrash stuff) is >extremely sparse and concrete and wouldn't really stand up to isolated >listening. So I wonder if there's a distinction here, or whether Mark >and I mean different things by "music". I don't know. I'm willing to bestow the title "music" on just about anything audible created by anybody and designated as such. Whether or not I consider it worthy of standing up to isolated listening is another issue. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon Music cataloger Central Tech. Services Cornell University Libraries mgs2@cornell.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:42:48 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: Godel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >antiorp's presentation is, to me, an overemphasized pose; an implied point = - >that language, whatever language one uses, is insufficient to communicate a= ll >truths, per Godel - is certainly true, but I think that the equine in quest= ion >is definitely dead and hammered into an unattractive pile of raw meat by no= w. +fle!schklump+ >The style is inconsistent and deliberately obfuscatory. If one is attemptin= g >to communicate, it seems counter-productive to ADD noise to the bandwidth; All that is not information, not redundancy, not form and not restraints is noise, the only possible source of new patterns." -- Bateson, Mind and Nature - A Necessary Unity, 1979 But then, if it was explained clearly, there wouldn't be any reason to bother doing it, I suppose. --- Joe M. eo d roa r n ete e i ham tc M tr lone. or ee" , form, nu , gne o n oen o tgo y, 1979 s * l e ra t ,e tpecnoc eht fI( traints a ete ,stniartser dna B sts em ot smees tI iei - obo n n a" ns anything.) t o eht ,esion si r of new patterns th asf on si taht llA" with* information, hio t and Nature - A Nece f new patterns." dundancy, not form a what happnz when pre.konssept!=AFn meeTz ver!f1kat!=AFn. | -=10------------- | | | =10----------- | =10---| p r 0 d U k t [=7F]-----| | =10_=10-=10=10-=10_=10-]hUm An szK !Lx2[-=10_=10-= =10=10_=10-=10 _ l ! f 3 _ 1.anti[.symetry..]xper!enss [p-un_kT-pr_o-T=96k_oL] =D8 f =D8 =D8 =D8 3 herausgegeben v=F8m internat!onalen !nstitut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sziplin hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp krop3rom_||-a9ff sonic-boom.com/review/kr0p3r0m-1.html cdz _ http://execpc.com/~decibel/feedband.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:30:49 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fernando Manuel Rodrigues Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Date: Quarta-feira, 29 de Outubro de 1997 23:08 Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales >>arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation > >why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? > I'd like to clarify something. I think I can understand these feelings. I also think you, Paula, have some strange reactions toward it. Personally, I don't waste any time reading antiorp's messages. I don't care if they are great or not, anf the guy/gal is talented or not. This is a discussion site. We should make our best to make anything we say clear to anybody, and not try ot make it obscure. This is not a game. If someone wants to state something, has the obligation to say it loud and clear. That's what I am doing now. For me, antiorp is just irritating, not offensive (i do not allow that). It's like the mosquitoes in a summer evening. We just can't help it, but we can always avoid it. I can accept that you like it (but not understand that you do). By the way - what does all this crap have to do with "revue de reflexions musicales"? Les reflexions ici sont pas certainement musicales. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:21:35 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fernando Manuel Rodrigues Subject: Re: Music Notation Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Kelly To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Date: Quinta-feira, 30 de Outubro de 1997 19:39 Subject: Re: Music Notation Utility >Hi All, > Try MidiSofts, Desktop Sheet Music. About $70. > Lots of options and nice layout choices. > Happy Sounds > Timothy Kelly > MidiVox >MidiVox - Worlds 1st Voice to Midi. >Hum, Sing, Scat, Rap, Talk, Croon. >BioSensor Neckband. Rack Mount Brain. >AES Best In Show. EM Editors Choice. Does it export the the notation file as EPS or bitmap? Does it export at all? I would rather suggest Finale. It is certainly not a "facility" but it works and do what you want to do. You may also try Finale Allegro, the little brother, instead. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:40:13 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DON ANDES Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: ASR-10 hissing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i have been reading the list for a while now since i bought a used asr-10 in mid-august. the problem i have is that now that i have my asr hooked up to a mackie 1202vlz, and i am noticing a lot of hiss when i key down notes. i thought that maybe the instrument was sampled poorly but i tried many different instruments from different sources and all seem to have this problem. even when i lower the volume to 0 i still can hear some sound bleed through when i key down. is this nomal, or do i have a problem? and in the event that this is a problem, where could i go to fix it and approx how much would this cost to get fixed? thanks in advance. donald hugh andes p.s i can get around the hiss by choosing parametric eq, keeping all the gains at zero and the eq trim at -1. works for now, but i want to get this thing working right. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:13:01 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Fernando Manuel Rodrigues Subject: Re: movie is visible music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Nick Rothwell To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Date: Quinta-feira, 30 de Outubro de 1997 11:56 Subject: Re: movie is visible music >> I agree. I was actually referring to fear of change, fear of feeling >> uncomfortable, or fear acknowledging that a young person could be right. >> Not all older people are this way, but enough of them are this way to make >> many younger people, especially artists, feel really oppressed. > >Interesting. My take as a somewhat older person is that the young's >obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them (techno, >Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those like >myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because >we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. > >Comments? > 100% agree ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:11:52 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: trend and fashion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Interesting. My take as a somewhat older person is that the young's >>obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them (techno, >>Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those like >>myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because >>we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. >> >>Comments? >> >100% agree trend and fashion de.trend.aus. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:19:26 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Paulo Mouat Subject: "Tesselation" and "texturality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > we've (the big we) gone a long way in music w.r.t. melody, harmony, > structure, but my primary concern is texturality (timbral qualities) > and rhythms: voila e-music! -- not that this can't be accomplished > without new technologies (emphasis on new), but ceratinly the bulk of > this work that i am familiar with can be found in this genre. If you care for a more organic kind of texturality, there's a lot in ordinary orchestral and ensemble music. It may even prove more fruitful than in emusic, since you'll get used to regard acoustic instruments as limitless sources of quite complex phenomena--the very fact of performance fluctuation and articulation gives them a wealth of timbral richness hardly available in emusic. To sum up, to hear the *sound* don't restrict yourself to the electronic sound. While it may be interesting because it is "different" than everything else, it soon loses much of its richness because it does not have that little edge of natural uncertainty, nor does it respond to all the nuances of performance. I just attended a performance of Nono's "Hay que caminar sognando" again and I am really subdued by the wealth of timbres heard at the fringe of perception that piece conveys (it is for two violins, the performers moving in space at different sections), and so I may be momentarily biased towards the "organic" quality of acoustic instruments :-). To search for texture on orchestral music, there are a few composers that you should try: Varese, Nono, Ligeti, Sciarrino. Ligeti is almost 100% texture, Nono and Sciarrino bridge the gap between texture-only and ordinary musical discourse, and Varese is widely known as having a strong sense of rhythm (but that really is not the reason why I enjoy Varese so much). All the best. -- __|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, |___| mouat@mail.telepac.pt |___| http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/8804 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:42:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Integrated Rhythm & Noise Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales In-Reply-To: <01bce57b$173f6520$0100007f@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I >also think you, Paula, have some strange reactions toward it. Please clarify ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:48:37 UT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Snell Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 There are some pretty busy Rock Dinosaurs out there. Every year The Beatles, Doors and Hendrix et al make more money than in their "heyday"! I think the mindless grunge thing may have primed the pump for fans wanting real music that actually requires thought and technique. But hey, I was wrong about Bryan Adams! ms >Problem is, the music industry dominates our culture's notions of >music, and the music industry is obsessed with age since it determines >so much about their market demographics. That's why you can't be >considered a pop musician after you're 25, since you're then too old >to appeal to the most lucrative sector of the record-buying >population. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:04:56 +1100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Stephen Bartholomew Clark <084870@BUD.CC.SWIN.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: revue de reflexions antiorp In-Reply-To: <199710301927.OAA24569@clark.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > antiorp's presentation is, to me, an overemphasized pose; an implied point - > Note: Whenever we receive a message from antiorp, I print it out and read it very carefully because it's a piece of good artwork and I find it extremely interesting. If I pore over it for long enough, I can occasionally get a few glimpses of understanding about what antiorp is trying to say. My point is, that even though he doesn't successfully communicate anything of world shattering importance, I can get enjoyment from reading his messages simply because it's a challenge. I think he has a fascinating style. ---Stephen C1ark ________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:03:26 UT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Michael Snell Subject: Re: revue de reflexions antiorp > Whenever we receive a message from antiorp, I print it out and >read it very carefully because it's a piece of good artwork and I find it >extremely interesting. If I pore over it for long enough, I... >from reading his messages simply because it's a challenge. I think he >has a fascinating style. ---Stephen C1ark I have decided that antiorp and Paula are really the same person and are devoted to changing this to discussion about antiorp and Paula. PLEASE!! Ms ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:03:19 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: c986 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >PLEASE!! nerves konnected 2 the center we are tied 2 the maschine !nvisible + silent circling overland the planmakers designed us 2 outturn + outmaneuver !ntruders in the skies !ntruders !n our skies 1-1-2029 backbone of the fighter force of the defence !ndustry devoted tools of the power warrants of the order 1-1-2029 silicon advisers leading the way we reach our cruising altitude 1-1-2029 west europe. midnight !nvisible + silent circling overland scanning. taping. filing. !nstantly checking every human. auto + plane of the quarters we survey do.!t muzt we do !t. do !t.do !t. muzt we do !t. f33ddz3f3l!n3z.ab1l!t+e|2|4|2|du3l0ndzepazt == err0r. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: YEOUN THE BAAAAD Subject: Internet Message >>humanzsuk. heeheehee =P ____ yEouN tHe cOOoL!!?!? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:36:43 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Donald Andes Subject: Re: ASR HISSING... thank's for the advice but the mixer is brand new and seems to be working fine. it is possible that i am being a little picky about the noise level. if i cut the gains my problem seems to be fixed. but is there anyone else who seems to be getting similar noise when the volume is at 0 and you press a key down? donald hugh andes does anyone know what tyhe output level of the asr is in dB? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:57:03 +0000 Reply-To: Joe_Frost@mh.blyth.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Frost Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Of all the lists, music lists should be the last where the young/old > > question is necessary. Well said - I'm 25 now (too old to be pop - good) and every day I get older but every day is another chance to improve. > > Recommended reading: the current online Freff column: > > http://www.keyboardmag.com/editdesk/options/fr_options.html. I had to make a new folder under music in my favourites - I called it inspiration, thanks Nick. > ____ ___ ___ / / / /_ /__/ /__/ /__________________________________________ Joe Frost ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:59:33 +0000 Reply-To: Joe_Frost@mh.blyth.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Frost Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > There are some pretty busy Rock Dinosaurs out there. Every year The Beatles, > Doors and Hendrix et al make more money than in their "heyday"! > I think the mindless grunge thing may have primed the pump for fans wanting > real music that actually requires thought and technique. I love those busy Rock Dinosaurs, the music is timeless, but I also love many of the songs of Kurt Cobain, it's all real to me. ____ ___ ___ / / / /_ /__/ /__/ /__________________________________________ Joe Frost ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:55:26 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <183C7B83738@mh-nov02.mh.blyth.com> (message from Joe Frost on Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:57:03 +0000) > > http://www.keyboardmag.com/editdesk/options/fr_options.html. > I had to make a new folder under music in my favourites - I called it > inspiration, thanks Nick. That URL is presumably a link to the current online column, so it'll change eventually. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:04:03 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] In-Reply-To: (message from Integrated Rhythm & Noise on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:38:19 -0500) > >I was born in 1960 > > so you're younger than I had thought you might be. I'm still trying to decide whether I should be flattered by that. Either I'm acting too old, cranky and persecuted for my age, or the ageism situation here is worse than would be expected. > maybe this is used against men more than women. self-determined women tend > to bloom later in the arts, because we have the added task of finding our > self-determination, usually beginning after 25. On the other hand, in the dance scene (which is mostly women), you are basically considered to be out of it by your early 30's. Sure, the 30-somethings don't have the energy and naivety of the youngsters coming out of the dance schools, but a well looked-after body is still perfectly articulate well past the Logans' Run boundary, and older dancers can develop a very expressive and focussed economy of movement. Nederlans Dance Theater III is composed of dancers whose ages range from 46 to 61. For what it's worth, I'm also considered (by common wisdom) to be too old to design software, despite having a doctorate in the subject and many years of experience in writing compilers and implementing type systems. Oh, an aside to Antiorp: thanks for your private email on this subject, but I couldn't understand a word of it. -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:45:34 +0000 Reply-To: Joe_Frost@mh.blyth.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Frost Subject: Re: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On the other hand, in the dance scene (which is mostly women), you are > basically considered to be out of it by your early 30's. Sure, the > 30-somethings don't have the energy and naivety of the youngsters > coming out of the dance schools, but a well looked-after body is still > perfectly articulate well past the Logans' Run boundary, and older > dancers can develop a very expressive and focussed economy of movement. Damn, you had to go and mention that film, now I'm destined to spend yet another day mooning over Jenny Agutter. ____ ___ ___ / / / /_ /__/ /__/ /__________________________________________ Joe Frost ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:56:49 +0200 Reply-To: piper@superonline.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Uğur Kavalcı Subject: women in music Re: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > maybe this is used against men more than women. self-determined women tend > > to bloom later in the arts, because we have the added task of finding our > > self-determination, usually beginning after 25. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but have you ever wondered about the huge gap between the number of men and women who produce music? In performers the numbers seem to compare, but when it comes to creating&composing music it seems like there are hardly any women at all -aside from vocalists maybe, which is another bizarre point- And it seems like this is going on all areas of music, not just emusic or avantgarde.Self determinism should not be the answer, or how come this don't happen in literature and the other arts? Sorry for interrupting the thread, and sorry to the old timers who just had a deja-vu experience ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:30:20 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: DR STEPHEN WEINSTOCK Subject: Linguistic Gibberish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: Steve Weinstock * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? GUT RESPONSE: Because the amout of time and mental energy it takes to figure out what he/she/it is trying to say far outweighs the value of the content. BTW, I think it's not offensive, just silly. I subscribe to the belief that people who think they have something important to say have a moral obligation to take steps to make their message as clear and as accessible as possible. However, I am more bothered by people who copy an entire message they are responding to instead of just summarizing an issue in one or two sentences. Am I expecting to much for E-Musicians to state a theme succinctly? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:57:54 -0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: movie is visible music In-Reply-To: (message from Integrated Rhythm & Noise on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:28:31 -0500) > this sounds like a stereotype to me > how young do you mean when you say young? Young enough to wear chunky platform shoes or be a member of a pop group whose members stand at odd angles in the middle distance and stare into the sky for their publicity photos. Sideburns are a giveaway as well. In fact, I categorise the young as those who are unaware of how naff a fashion is because they don't remember it from the last time around. More generally: anyone who mistakenly thinks that what they're doing is new, innovative and exciting. A lot of the online cyberculture seems to be like this. On the other hand, I *know* that what I'm doing artistically is new and innovative because of the almost 100% proportion of blank stares I get whenever I attempt to explain it. Maybe I should stop trying to explain process-based performance systems to dancers... -- Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL contemporary dance projects http://www.cassiel.com music synthesis and control "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:13:19 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: morethanone Subject: Ageism and security In-Reply-To: <199710310601.BAA39142@atlanta.american.edu> Nick Rothwell wrote: TK> > Of all the lists, music lists should be the last where the > > young/old question is necessary. > Nick> Problem is, the music industry dominates our culture's notions of > music, and the music industry is obsessed with age since it determines > so much about their market demographics. Then your complaint is with the music industry, a different question. Certainly it's a golden pig. Interestingly, MANY of today's artists have intently confronted that question... although the Leviathon only fully emerged post-Fabs. But are they the blue meanies? The proliferation of labels has fractured the commercial publishing stronghold on what is "acceptable" (not yet the Alamo of commercial FM radio), allowing for an incredible proliferation of different ideas of what music is all about, and of expressions of personal vision. Es muss sein. Is much of it crap? Always. Were it up to the major labels, I'd never have heard Wreckless Eric. John Otway. Here is a complaint fresh from today's 313 (Detroit Techno) list: > Simon Walley > I agree with you in the main. I've found the problem to be that whole > nights are now turned over to the hard, banging stuff (House of God here in > the UK is a good example). There's less eclectism (sp?) than there used to > be - when they get used as the staple theme for a whole night, I get bored > because I know exactly what the next track is going to sound like. To me > that ain't techno. People complain when things change. General complaints about lack of "quality" are ORPian in their ambiguity. Here young Simon DETAILS his complaint, opening it up for scrutiny. Nick> My take as a somewhat older person is that the young's > obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them > (techno, Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those > like myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because > we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. Oh you crafty somewhat-curmudgeon. Go fix the BRS ;-> History repeats itself. The young are always obsessed with "new fashionable ideas." You weren't? "For the times, they are a-changin'". These ideas displace old schools of thought. Is much of it crap? Always. Is your complaint that your art is not valued by the young? Not valued by the music industry? Not valued by yourself because it has gone out of style? When you are cold and something is burning, you attach little meaning to the ash and smoke. But the flame? Aaaaah. It may or not be art... but it waaaarrrrmmmms. Agitated reaction against the new is no fountain of youth, no bastion of quality. Beethoven's 2nd Symphony reviewed as "a dragon thrashing it's tail." The reaction at the premiere of "Sacre du Printemps." I was reflecting yesterday on K.22 and how beat-driven and techno-like it was. Would Wolfgang have survived in a mosh pit? His little powdered wig rising and falling with each beat? Damn straight, I say. And then he'd have blown us away. In music, quality is that which moves. "Get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand..." Oh the WWII crowd rankled at Dylan. It was so... moving. ~~ Tony SSS MIDI Rock Mac ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:16:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Josh Brandt Subject: Re: Linguistic Gibberish In-Reply-To: <199710311430.JAA95400@mime2.prodigy.com> from "DR STEPHEN WEINSTOCK" at Oct 31, 97 09:30:20 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Am I expecting to much for E-Musicians to state a theme > succinctly? [comment deleted.] Josh Heh heh heh. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:11:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pedro Batista Subject: Linguistic choices Mime-Version: 1.0 >arrogant and self-indulgent obfuscation > why do some people on this list find antiorp's linguistic habits so offensive? >i don't understand most of cw4t7 but i think he's cool. something >indecipherable always shows another possibilty in some way. =P I think =cw has a good thing going for him, which is his politeness. Exasperating (did I made that up?) yes. Arrogant no. What you might acuse him of, would be imposing on the bandwith, but most of you guys/gals dont even bother editing your responses to the list, and just quote all the message, which is a much more unconsiderate (what about this one?) attitude than Orp's lingo. And I think there were one, posibly two messages in which he did actually say something useful and interesting (zpank ;>) I guess his stubborness to remain self-similar is what really bugs people. It would be allright if he did it for a while and then enough is enough and he started acting normal (which is...?). But he sticks to his aesthetic choices and I congratulate him on that. And as Yeoun well says, its his ambiguity that offers some interest (tho its an easy way out for him...) pedro ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:11:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Pedro Batista Subject: Compression rates as a measure of music Mime-Version: 1.0 From Nick Rothwell >> I ran into a 4K zipped MIDI the other day that inflated to 395K. >> Unsuprisingly there weren't many surprises in it. > >That'll be a hot track from one of the up-and-coming underground club >cultures. I think the musical genre is referred to as DRUM'N'BLANK. Nick I doubt you could get good compression from d&b, mostly because its such a diverse style. Repetition is precisely what good d&b doesnt have, or trys to avoid. Besides any midi files you compress will give you good rates as well. I mean, the high compression rate doesnt have to mean "repetitive music" This is no gut-reation from my part. I am not the defender of d'n'b. You can call it drum&bulsh*t for all I care. But please remember that you are indistinctively diminishing a lot of good musicians work, without (I BET) knowing that much about this musical style in the first place There is good and bad in every musical style, and anyone that pretends to own the truth is bound to be wrong pedro ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:59:07 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: Ageism and security [Re: movie is visible music] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>something that we are >>considered to have lost by the time we're 30. > >maybe this is used against men more than women. self-determined women tend >to bloom later in the arts, because we have the added task of finding our >self-determination, usually beginning after 25. This reminds me of a forum in which I participated at the 1995 ICMC. I felt then (and I do now) that the signal-to-noise ratio of electronic music by women is vastly higher than that of e-music by men. I'd like us to get to the point where I'm hearing the same amount of _bad_ music by women as I do by men. OTOH, perhaps the delay brings with it the ability to filter out what doesn'y work, so that the work of women that one does hear often comes from a composer whose just more mature. This might account for the difference. Regards, David David Rodger, "I'd bet for techno music you Audio Engineer: could get pretty good lossless Recording, Editing, Mastering compression, as the compression Lifeguard and Lifeguard Trainer is based on repeated data." Phone: +61-3-9459-1898 -- Michael Conlen ------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au (please use this address) OLD EMAIL: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au (active for a little while) http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ MOTION CAPTURE IN MUSIC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:58:58 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: movie is visible music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >the young's >obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them (techno, >Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those like >myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because >we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. Gosh, Nick. Are you saying that techno is a triumph of form over content? ;-) Regards, David David Rodger, "I'd bet for techno music you Audio Engineer: could get pretty good lossless Recording, Editing, Mastering compression, as the compression Lifeguard and Lifeguard Trainer is based on repeated data." Phone: +61-3-9459-1898 -- Michael Conlen ------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au (please use this address) OLD EMAIL: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au (active for a little while) http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ MOTION CAPTURE IN MUSIC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:59:18 +0100 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: revue de reflexions musicales [2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Couldn't have said it better, Joe. :-) >a rebours + great travellr ov un.travell!ng. 2 ecsper!enss any plass. 2 >simpl+e sorround 1n.ccclf w!th dze smellz + sndz. nvr leav!ng dze >akkmulator. nvr ecsiting dze sitting struktur. dze ecsper!nss !z all dze >mor !ntenss 4 dze !magining + kontecstual propz r mor elaborate than >realit+e kould evr b. I've just figured it out. Try reading this out loud. Clearly, Antiorp is the successor to Karl Schwitters! ("Ursonate"). :-) Regards, David P.S. Given Schwitters' dates and musical developments of those times, that's perhaps less a case of Obligatory Emusic Content (ObEmCon) than Obscure Emusic Content!? David Rodger, "I'd bet for techno music you Audio Engineer: could get pretty good lossless Recording, Editing, Mastering compression, as the compression Lifeguard and Lifeguard Trainer is based on repeated data." Phone: +61-3-9459-1898 -- Michael Conlen ------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au (please use this address) OLD EMAIL: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au (active for a little while) http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/ MOTION CAPTURE IN MUSIC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:03:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Godel In-Reply-To: <199710302030.OAA13304@xochi.tezcat.com> from "=cw4t7abs" at Oct 30, 97 02:42:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > All that is not information, not redundancy, not form and not restraints is > noise, the only possible source of new patterns." > -- Bateson, Mind and Nature - A Necessary Unity, 1979 This begs the question. What teleological function is it serving? Has any goal been reached other than personal gratification that some list members are "not with it" (i.e., unappreciative), but others are? I have the feeling that if you and I actually sat down and played music together that we'd find a lot of common ground. But I would say that our goals in communication are diametrically opposed. I want to concisely share experience in communication, whereas it appears that the communication- as-experience is your stance. I'm not sure that this gap is easily bridgeable. I'll drop this from this point on simply because it's not giving me insights into anything musical, electronic or otherwise. If it were, I'd be encouraging it. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:56:53 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: nick Subject: Re: EMUSIC-L Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 In-Reply-To: <19971030153727.16103.qmail@wyvis.an-teallach.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cancell my subscription to emusic-l ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:52:56 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: noch ein wunder in der welt wenn ein kind geboren ist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> this sounds like a stereotype to me >> how young do you mean when you say young? > >Young enough to wear chunky platform shoes or be a member of a pop >group whose members stand at odd angles in the middle distance and >stare into the sky for their publicity photos. solipsist.s point of view u do not exist. so no argument you make matters. solipsism is non-falsifiable. there is nothing you can say + no evidenss you can bring that the solipsist can.t counter simply by pointing out that by her lights you and dze evidenss r simply konstructs of her own m9nd. >Sideburns are a giveaway as well. In fact, I categorise the young as >those who are unaware of how naff a fashion is because they don't >remember it from the last time around. an+e attempt at argument !s renderd pointless by the very nature ov solipsism !tself. >More generally: anyone who mistakenly thinks that what they're doing >is new, innovative and exciting. n3o!zt kultural konspiracc+e kallz 4 cccelf-aggrande!smnet !n all aspektz ov l!fe. dze overthrow ov realit+e with dze zwe!te[z]ystem =3D antirealit+_e >A lot of the online cyberculture >seems to be like this. Maybe I should stop trying to explain process-based performance systems to dancers... > On the other hand, I *know* that what I'm doing >artistically is new and innovative because of the almost 100% >proportion of blank stares I get whenever I attempt to explain it. thanks for your private email on this subject, but I couldn't understand a word of it. [log!k =3D] 100 prozent defekt!v. [!nnovat!on =3D] 000 eczpla!ning|justifying =3D slav maTTer _||- =3D know =3D th!nk >Maybe I should stop trying to explain process-based performance >systems to dancers... kreate spass 4 dze newl+e - | dead rezume !f anything =3D anything. antitekxt. non-referentialit+e ov enforssd leisure + kontemplat!on. s!lensz < no!sz. artab0l!t10nk=F8mm!tt_e_||-zwe!te[z]ystem. |=7F| |=7F|9|=7F| |=7F| zv31t3[z]5!zt3m [p-un_kT-pr_o-T=96k_oL] =D8 f =D8 =D8 =D8 3 herausgegeben v=F8m internat!onalen !nstitut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sziplin hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:00:13 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: insights into anything. musical, electronic otherwise or Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> All that is not information, not redundancy, not form and not restraints = is >> noise, the only possible source of new patterns." >> -- Bateson, Mind and Nature - A Necessary Unity, 1979 > >This begs the question. What teleological function is it serving? Has any >goal been reached other than personal gratification that some list members >are "not with it" (i.e., unappreciative), but others are? sch!ver.leaking !ntegerz.subvers!0n kannot b subvertd. kondensation operatez !n each !nstanss ov waking l!fe. krono.logikl+e obl1gator+e. >I have the feeling that if you and I actually sat down and played music >together that we'd find a lot of common ground. + kommon.ground !=3D des!rabl. !n spass dze part !zt smallr dzen dze w.hole. !n dream t!me + spass =3D real. >I'll drop this from this point on simply because it's not giving me insight= s >into anything musical, electronic or otherwise. If it were, I'd be encourag= ing >it. !ngenuit+e kons1stz ov jo!ning d!ztant + d!sparate objekT_maTTer. effekt!ng transport =3D verk ov dze persp!caciouz + versat!le m9nd konta!nr. =3D boTh amuz!ng + pleazant. 4 pleasure arisez 4rom admiration. az !z 2 b not!ssd !n sudden scene changez + nvr_seen spektaklz. !l cannochiale ar!stotel!ko.venice.1663.p.001. 1 kould konvert d!esz postz 2 muzikl data. ekxtrakt!ng rhythmz 4rom tecxt =3D ganz !nteressant. aRtstr1kepr0p4g4nd3+1. evrything which kcan b proven [or =3D !nfo] =3D sensslesz. dze des!re 4 useleszness =3D uszful. desire =3D an okcupat!on.d!sz !=3D anything. !t =3D zomthing specif2-1k. p u n k T p r o T o k o L _||- modern arT wischez 2b neg.kritikl.!nnovativ.perpetuall+e.surpass1ng. !nstantl+e ass!milatd.akseptd.!ntegratd.konsummd. surrendrd |2| dze ev!ndenss arT do3znt kontezt anyth1ng. revoLt =3D=3D !solatd. dze maled1kt!=BAn konssumd k r 0 p 3 r 0 m _ a 9 f f _||- =BF - - -]k=F8nsume[- \ / -]t=F8rkue[- punkTpr=F8Tok=F8L k k 1 9 12 8 o detr.end.auz. |=7F=7F| |=7F=7F=3D=3D=7F=7F| v ! R u s |=7F=7F| p u N K t zle!e stranag1zla _|- prol!atara zlata!utege kr=BAper=BAm | | | | | hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp sonic-boom.com/review/kr0p3r0m-1.html execpc.com/~decibel/feedband.htm sukc1nt.br!lx2!antl+e konkrete.+ ultra-=0Fbjekt1v. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:54:37 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Aaron Solomon Subject: unsubscribe solomon@spiretech.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >cancell my subscription to emusic-l unsubscribe solomon@spiretech.com Aaron Solomon solomon@spiretech.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:48:40 0 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Shannon O'Neill Subject: Re: move for improvement Nick Rothwell wrote: > Interesting. My take as a somewhat older person is that the young's > obsession with new fashionable ideas for the sake of them (techno, > Eurocrash, cyber-everything) can be equally oppressive to those like > myself who value quality over form and in turn are not valued because > we attach little meaning to trend and fashion. > > Comments? If it has little meaning for you, then how can you be oppressed by it? ;) A blanket dismissal of certain forms of music on the basis that they are 'trendy' is foolish. My experience is that the majority of music made in any style is rubbish (yes, including music for contemporary dance). There are highly creative people making 'techno' (for want of a better term) just as there are in 'art' music. My music has been performed in academic environments ('new music' concerts), jazz clubs, raves, etc... I don't expect funding or commercial success - I do it because I _want_ to. There's absolutely no point developing a chip on one's shoulder because one goes against the grain of the mainstream. Success in popular music is all about playing the game. I choose to abstain. I find it ironic that many of the people on this list who criticize 'popular' music for not being as complex, rich and stimulating as their beloved art music, are the same people who criticize antiorp's textual practice. (I think these will be my last words on this topic: it has become tedious). btw, I'm 24 years old - I collaborate with musicians and other artists ranging in age from teenagers to fiftysomethings... Shannon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:13:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Just this guy with 11 fingers..." Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Just this guy with 11 fingers..." Subject: Re: ASR-10 hissing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it could be the hiss in the sample itself. Does it do this with different samples loaded? -----Original Message----- From: DON ANDES To: EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 2:04 PM Subject: ASR-10 hissing :i have been reading the list for a while now since i bought a used asr-10 in :mid-august. the problem i have is that now that i have my asr hooked up to a :mackie 1202vlz, and i am noticing a lot of hiss when i key down notes. i :thought that maybe the instrument was sampled poorly but i tried many :different instruments from different sources and all seem to have this :problem. even when i lower the volume to 0 i still can hear some sound bleed :through when i key down. is this nomal, or do i have a problem? and in the :event that this is a problem, where could i go to fix it and approx how much :would this cost to get fixed? thanks in advance. : :donald hugh andes : :p.s i can get around the hiss by choosing parametric eq, keeping all the gains :at zero and the eq trim at -1. works for now, but i want to get this thing :working right. : ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Donald Andes Subject: ASR HISSING i checked alot of other samples, (store bought ones) and they all seem to do it. so i doubt it is the sample. i bought the asr used so i don't know if i am being real picky about the basic noise level of the instrument or if there really is some problem internally when it plays back a sample. does anyone know if the digital osillator could have a problem that is creating this this hissing sound when i keydown?? or can anyone else hear a faith playback of a sample when they turn the instument volume down to 0, but leave the asr volume all the way up?? if anyone can hear a faint playback of the sample then maybe this is normal and i am just being really knit picky about a piece of gear that i otherweise love. like i said, before thatnks in advance for any help or information. donald hugh andes