Feedback from the InterNetWorkers dinner at Tyler's in Carrboro, January 20, 1999.

Thanks to everyone who attended the dinner we had at Tyler's.  I appreciate all the email I have received in response to my informal survey.

The dinner was organized by a loose group of folks -- a conspiracy, really -- spearheaded by Michael Thomas. It took place because of his initiative, and most of the credit and gratitude should go to him. The rest of the working group is:

If you enjoyed yourself so much that you'd like to join this conspiracy, send me some email and we'll put you in the loop.

We'll be conspiring further in the near future, so keep an eye out for announcements.

I have cut-and-pasted selected responses by question. I omitted any reference to the respondents’ identities. Every effort was made to ensure all points of view were represented.

--Thomas Beckett
catalogue.com


QUESTIONS

What was good about Wednesday night?

Meeting other young people who work on the net in the Triangle. I'm the youngest person at my company and have really been anxious to get out and meet other youngsters who share my interests.

Friendly, knowledgeable folks.

Great to meet so many people and to find out what they are doing.  Good to see old friends.

... it was *great* to spend some time with a roomful of intelligent, articulate, interesting folks who **get it**!

It was so fun! I enjoyed the chance to just hang out with people in the same industry and with some similar interests as me. Smart, diverse, friendly people with whom I can discuss Info Age culture or whatever... as a fellow attendee said, "people who *get* it."

The whole concept was great--it was nice to meet all of the different people working in the computer industry in the area.

It was good to have so many people over and put faces to names! Thanks for organizing this!

Nice to have people of similar interests get together and out behind monitors.

good people mixing pretty well as a whole

Seeing the size of the community. Good conversation & good contacts.

I got to meet several new people.

good interaction, relaxed setting.

I enjoyed seeing people from different areas of interest get together. Its not often that both geeks and non-geeks come together for the common good.

That someone got that group of folks together, finally.

company, mood, alcohol.

It was close to home - I live in Durham. I could feed and walk my dog before going to Tyler's I got to talk shop with people that I don't normally get to discuss things with. For the people I do business with, I wasn't talking business/work, we got to socialize. I also got a contact for a couple of future business contacts.


What could be done to make the next event better?

I think it might help to have a larger, more open venue. It was tough to work one's way around, so I think many people picked a corner and stayed there. I'd like to mix things up a bit more.

Lower noise level (better voice comm.)

Start each person with a tab to be presented for drinks and dinner, to be settled at the end of the evening. Have waitstaff circulate among guests taking drink orders.

I'm just glad there's going to *be* a next event.

To have someone officially 'start' the dinner off at the scheduled time and have everyone sit down and say who they are so everyone knows who everyone is.

perhaps a few words from a couple of the organizers including a way to make sure that folks not on the original mailing get on the list. if we get the koz software members can build pages so's we can have some follow up contact (other than bidnez cards)

May not be cool, but nametags would help with the introduction overload and the crowd noise. I know I'll only remember 20% of the names for next time.

I think it was really just too crowded to get around and meet and talk to everyone

it was a little noisy in the bar

Since the group was rather large, I think everyone could have used a way to meet more people at the beginning of the event. It was a little intimidating seeing that many people already divided into chat groups and trying to find a way in.

Choosing a venue whose acoustics are a little better. I had a sore throat the next day from trying to talk. Also, there should be at least 5-10 minutes of structured time, perhaps when everyone has ordered and is waiting for food, when we coalesce as a group. It could be as simple as someone from the steering group welcoming folks and saying a sentence about why we were brought together. I think there were quite a few people who were confused as to why they were there.

agenda, purpose

I was a bit confused about what the goal of the group was. But, I'm willing to sit around and shoot the breeze. On my part, I didn't really mingle very much since I had a desire to talk to the folks I was seated with.


Location

What did you think of Tyler's? Of Carrboro?

The duct work reminded me of "Brazil." The wood made for bad acoustics, and the booth design was brilliant for having a place to put one's coat.

Fine with me.

Loved Tylers -- plenty of chairs, yet good space to walk around in , as

well. Also, parking was easy!

I liked Tyler's a lot. Tyler himself was a gracious and generous host, and the space was, well, spacious and conducive to mingling or not. I like Carrboro, but it makes for a looong drive home for me (to Raleigh).

Of Tyler's: I liked it. Of Carrboro: it was OK.

Good choices, both of them--Tyler's especially because of the no-smoking policy, and its fairly open environment. I wouldn't want this to take place in a smoky, more bar-type atmosphere.

I think Tyler's was nice, but it was too small for us to really move around and meet each other. I appreciated that Tyler's was non-smoking though. :)

No comment on Carrboro. Tyler's was fine.

i love carrboro. tyler's is fine but perhaps a bit loud.

Fine. It's a bit of drive from Raleigh, so I'd be happy with closer locations too.

Of Tyler's: Good food & beer. Of Carrboro: It's the Paris of the Piedmont

The location was great. Tyler's did a good job of serving us in a timely manner, and Carrboro is one of my favorite places in the world.

Tyler was great to accommodate us. However, the restaurant is really loud with that many folks gathered together and Carrboro is very out of the way for folks driving in from Raleigh, especially North Raleigh. I wasn't coming from N. Raleigh, but know that it would be quite a haul.

Of Tyler's: Good beer, horrible food. Of Carrboro: Unsurpassed, as always.

Carrboro is a bit far, especially during rush hour but I'm flexible. Rotating is tough to keep track of IMHO.

Good, but difficult to find parking - and I was on time. Nice not to have to wait for a table or space. What I liked about Tyler's was the lack of cigarette smoke and yhe good space.


Would you like to see these events take place elsewhere? On a rotating basis? Where would you suggest?

Maybe something more centrally located, tho, so folks from Durham and Raleigh would be more inclined to come? I'd like to get out to different parts of the triangle... Raleigh, Cary, Morrisville, Downtown Durham. Doesn't really matter much, but variety is nice.

I'm having someone check Greenshields and the Og place at Moore Square, Raleigh to see whether they'll do separate checks; they certainly have the room.

I say keep it here! People can come to CH or Carrboro - there are plenty of other kinds of events where we need to go to other parts of the Triangle.

I can see a very fun spring night at say, Top of the Hill, outside.

I like Tylers, though out of fairness to the Raleigh folk, we ought to try to find somewhere nearer the park for alternate dates.

A rotating basis would be cool (it would be nice to be closer to my Durham workplace or Raleigh home), though we might have trouble finding places which can accommodate groups of our size.

I kinda like there, but maybe if there someone else too, so it does not get stale.

Tyler's was great--anyplace in the area with a similar open feel and ease of access would be good, too. Maybe the West End Wine Bar?

A rotating basis could be good. PieWorks in Cary and Durham could be good. Applebees in Durham, Thai Garden in Kroger Shopping Center at South Square Mall.

sushi bar in carrboro maybe?

Prefer same time/same place. Then we can just count on Tyler's the second Tuesday of the month, or whatever. However, I'm a foodie, so trying different spots is appealing too.

I like the rotating basis idea

I don't know of a place that would be better. Maybe a picnic once the nice weather comes, but that's a few months away.

Perhaps we could rotate. Jamaica Jamaica at the intersection of 55/54 might be a good, central location. I'm not sure who could handle the group in Raleigh, though, without confirmation on numbers.

Location's nice, but it would nice, too, if the food were edible. Maybe rotate among durham, ch, raleigh, rtp locations

Neither here nor there about location. On the pro side having it in the same place each time means you establish a home base. "It's the 3rd Wednesday of the month, everyone will be at Tyler's" On the con side, you will probably lose out on attendees who live in Raleigh because they consider Carrboro too much of hike.

I had dinner at Joe's Crab Shack on 15-501 Blvd the other night. I spoke to the manager and asked him if it cost to use the "gararge" area and told him about the Inet group and their size, he said just call back and speak to any of the managers to arrange things.


Would you prefer these events to always include dinner, or is "happy hour" sufficient? Lunch?

I'd be fine with Happy Hour alone, but I noticed many people weren't drinking, so maybe they wouldn't come if there wasn't dinner? Having drinks in good company after work makes me happy. I'd vote for keeping these an evening affair.

Better dinner than lunch, and the unstructured happy hour is very good idea.

I think Happy Hours would be fine - then people can break off and decide to have dinner together if they want. Or we could even say, dinner will be at 8:00 for those who want to stay...although that wouldn't be good for the restaurant's planning.

Happy hour might be sufficient, though I think dinner encouraged more relaxation. I'm afraid lunch would be too rushed and formal.

Dinner works best for me--unless it was lunch or a happy hour on a weekend.

I think [lunch] would very difficult as well, I cannot speak for others, but being in an Internet Start up, Lunch is usually busy for me.

Dinner is not necessary, I think--just socializing over a drink is good. Lunch would not be enough time and would not be social enough, I think, to be as enjoyable or as informal.

Either is ok with me. Lunch sounds good too.

Indifferent.

happy hour might do and put less stress on tyler

A meal is great, because it gives you a chance to have a longer talk with a smaller group. Lunch or dinner would be fine ... although "happy-hour" at noon is usually not a good idea.

I think all three are fine

dinner was nice, but happy hour would suffice as well. the talking and interaction is what matters.

I like the chance to sit down and talk over a nice meal. That's often where real connections are made; however, I find that I don't really enjoy my meal because I'm too busy trying to talk and listen to my new friends. I like the idea of a sit-down happy hour - everyone enjoys a few beers and some appetizers while finding a group of people to sit down and talk with.

Happy hour is sufficient. I'd probably not make a lunch meeting, because I don't often eat lunch :)

Lunch is a no-go, I'm too busy during the day. The time is great, I can get out of work at a reasonable hour. It's nice to have dinner, without a program, I don't think that folks feel put upon to order beyond drinks. However, there were some folks who wanted to eat dinner almost immediately. So there is an expectation of dinner being fairly short after the first round of drinks. Time passed very quickly, I was surprised that it was nearly 11:00 when I left.


Program

Would you be more or less inclined to come to a future event if there were some sort of presentation or program?

If you did something like that, i'd say make it short as possible. The real nice thing about this event was the chance to socialize.

Equal.

Two kinds of "program"-someone with real weight to talk for 10 or 15 minutes and then just be there for the rest of the evening. And/Or: someone with some recent news can tell what it's really like-and keep these sessions fairly short, too.

I don't think there should be programs. I think this should be social.

Not sure we need anything this structured at this early time.

Probably less. I like the free-ranging discussions we had! (If we did do a program, I'd be inclined to suggested a focused discussion over a formal presentation.)

Probably less, but it would depend on the program. I'm not interested in anything too structured or too technical--I can get that from other orgs in which I'm involved.

I would like if there was some type of presentation, but maybe more like a rotating one. Each Member - Talk about what they do and what the company does.

I don't think it would make me either more or less inclined to go--but it could be a good idea, if done properly.

More inclined. If not a program, at least some organization where the organizers introduce themselves and 'start' the event. The waiters didn't know when to start taking our orders. I was seated for a long time before anyone else sat down.

I prefer social.

More

More, if it is brief & stirs the discussion. Less, if I start feeling like a Shriner. Maybe a joint presentation/conversation topic, so the presenter would stir the coals & then we could all have spirited discussions about it.

presentations are fine, but they should probably be short I think a good (but short) presentation at the beginning of the meeting might inspire good conversation, but I don't think this should get out of hand. We need to decide on the purpose of these meetings - are we trying to push some agenda, or are we just providing a forum for networking and fun conversation. I think both could be incorporated into the meetings. This could provide a great way for the interested parties to gain new business contacts and make new friends.

I've got enough options for presentations. I'm not looking for another user's group with inet.

Presentation, ie vendors - no. I get enough of those. Programs from other members: definitely. I would participate to meet people and swap stories first, and learn something second. Breakout groups could work really well to do both: maybe smaller discussion groups with topics voted in by the attendees that continue over a quarter? A discussion leader for each group could have some questions or even do a 15 min. talk to get the ball rolling, and you could get to know the folks by sharing the topic discussion over several months.

I like the networking aspect, but I wouldn't be opposed to a program. Webgrrls tries to pack an awful lot into their meetings - business, social, announcements and program. It is really nice to have a relaxed atmosphere in which to interact -- however, I need to be more aggresive in speaking to folks beyond those I know. I spent much of the evening being social with folks that I normally don't get to do much else but business with.


If so, do you think such presentations should be strictly technical or of broader interest relating to the "internet industry"?

Broader.

If there were going to be programs, I'd say the broader the topic (but still relating to the 'Net) and the shorter the program, the better. Perhaps something that sparks discussion groups? You don't get to know people by watching a static presentation with them. If people really wanted a work-related "thing" to do, we could consider doing some pro-bono webby-type projects for non-profits--nothing so huge that it

would be impossible to coordinate or difficult to find time for, but enough that we get to know each other and our respective talents by working together *and* that our names and talents get spread around the community.

Short, and definitely NOT technical. This is the kind of situation where getting into the nitty-gritty would only be tedious and boring. Something more general, perhaps more theoretical and future-thinking rather than implementation-related would be nice. You know, something on XML possibilities for the future, or next-generation web browsers, or getting degrees in computers from one of those on-line "universities". That sort of thing--with a more broad, general appeal.

Strictly technical. Meet & Greet and order dinner = 20 minutes. Eat dinner during presentation = 40 minutes. Question and Answer period = 10 minutes. Socialize 15 minutes. About 90 minutes to 2 hours.

how i got my vc? 15 minutes in this environment is plenty

Alternate topics ... some technical, some broader. Controversy is good. Maybe two presenters, one for and one against. Did you read the article in the Wall Street Journal about 6 weeks ago re: cybersalons? They had conversation topics such as: Is Microsoft Evil? What are the pros & cons of SET? Pending government regulations & ecommerce, etc.

I think strictly technical presentations would be more beneficial.

technical is likely to be uninteresting for some. I'd say 30 minutes or so is probably good, like a keynote speaker but with no additional presentations. as I mentioned above, I enjoyed the sit-down and chat most.

I think the meetings have progressed too far in scope to have technical presentations lead everything off. There are too many non-technical people in attendance to warrant that type of discussion. A broader topic that everyone can relate to and speak about would be much more appropriate. Maybe there could be a choice of presentations to attend. Something like : Geeks come at 6:00 for technical presentation by _____ and everyone else come at 6:30 for 'The Internet and You' - an essay by Paul Jones.

Broad presentations would be best, I think, would draw more balanced crowds, too.

Depends a bit on the membership, but I'm a techie who likes to keep up with the business side, so a mix of broader interest and techie topics would be good.

loaded question. Internet to a lot of folks is merely web. Technical can shut out folks. Technical non-web can shut out even more. I deal with electronic mail, electronic commerce and hardware - I'd like to meet more folks who were in the same boat. There are broader issues that need to be addressed. The problem with technical presentations is that they scare away non-techy folks. And, technical presentations, unless you have someone with a lot of personality, can get geeky real quick. Now I'm a geek at heart, but this is where non-techy folks have their eyes glaze over or fall asleep. On the other hand, you may get a different mix of folks based on topic and area of interest. Length of presentation should be kept to 30 minutes - provide leeway if there is a huge interest, let's you cut off the boring folks.


Length of presentation: the entire dinner; 30 minutes; 15 minutes and shut up?

15-30 mins.

If we did do a discussion, I think limiting the time would be a good idea -- 30 mins. or less.

I would go for 30 minutes tops.

The latter, if at all. Our chit-chat is Net and industry oriented anyway.

Presentation no more than 20 minutes. Maybe a 10-minute announcement/request period, in which people could announce job openings, needs, milestones, etc. that others could discuss with them after the meeting. For example, I need a part-time sys op & would have loved to have asked the group if they had any leads or were interested themselves.

No more than 30 minutes.


Community

To foster the sense of community, would you be interested in an open communication channel such as a listserv?

The folks at http://www.koz.com have offered their software for the group to use if we wish... check it out and see what you think.

Yes.

Not quite yet.

I think a listserve would be fine, though I'm not sure how much *I'd* use it, due to the other restrictions on my time...

This would be cool

I could be interested, but only if it was moderated in some kind of way. I don't need any more random chit-chat email. But, if it were focused in some job-related way (position openings, interesting conferences coming up, that sort of thing) it could be nice.

A listserv would be good.

yes to listserv. members only posting

Yes.

Sure, a listserv would be fine.

sure.

I think a listserv would be a great way to build communication channels among the InterNetworkers. As long as people didn't abuse the powers of the listserv. Id love to be able to ask a question and have 10 knowledgeable people give their take on it.

I think a listserv is a given for a group like this. It should not be moderated, but it will need an official list mom to nurture the community. This nurturing can take a lot of effort.

listserv good.

Listservs are a great tool for supporting the group.

I like digested listserves - particularly on heavy traffic listserves. The greyhound-l digest is limited to 500 lines per digest. It should have a moderator, but that's a full time job on a list with heavy traffic.


If so, would you want any contact restrictions or moderation on the list?

Yes.

I think participation in the channels should be limited to those who go to the gatherings. I can't see any reason for restrictions on group membership, unless it's to keep the size of the group manageable.

I think it would be best if the list was private, No moderation.

Yes. No spam, chain-letters, endless off-topic nattering, dirty jokes, etc. There are plenty of other places to get those, if you want them.

moderation would probably be good.

Not selling it! No spam - worth registering to avoid more of that. Moderation doesn't seem likely to be needed - we're all pretty web savvy and real names (required) means business etiquette would be the norm.


How about a website? How about a web-based bulletin board or time-shifted conferencing system?

I'd rather have a website. It would actually be a nice solution for this - it can have a calendar, newsletter, photo album, message boards, address book, etc - and it will send out email notices when things have been updated on the site. I'd much prefer that to a listserv.

Those sound better than the listserv, IMHO.

I don't know what the demand for this would be.

I like the idea of an on-line directory (there were folks whose cards I meant to snag, but didn't)... but I think it'd need to be password-protected...

My personal fave is the BBS (non-threaded). I'm on enough listservs--and they're really not cool for chitchatting. With a bulletin board, you can treat it like a really slow chat room. You can post, leave, and come back at your convenience to read responses. You can either chitchat or engage in on-topic discussions, read everything or just search for your name, whatever your bag is. No clogging of mailbox involved.

[KOZ] will offer CPS (Community Publishing System) for this purposes. http://www.koz.com

KOZ, inc . . . can give a Channel in Family Shoebox, (It can be private) Control given to who ever wishes to have it. etc.

Either of these would be fine, and could be helpful.

Website is cool. IRC channel would be cool. A MUD would be better with different rooms for different interests. Maybe I-chat rooms?

Sure. At least a minimal one with the meeting announcements.

A website might be a good idea for general group announcements. In the future, it would be a good way for the InterNetworkers Collective to gain publicity and foster interest in the group.

I don't "do" bulletin boards. Mailing lists work much better for me. Having the when and where on a site would be smart, though.

All good ideas.

Good as the group grows to post FAQ's, meeting announcements, but email could handle it.

sure, again, it's an awful lot of work. but if someone is willing to do the work, it wouldn't be a bad idea.


Any restrictions on membership or participation in such channels?

No jackasses, No headhunters.

I like the idea of invitation only, coming from any member. Keep the group low-key for now, although its purpose is to bring fame to the area. At the moment, we seem to be more inward-looking than outward. I like the idea of restricted communication channels.

I don't think they'd be necessary.

None to begin with.

not at first

Who would it be restricted to? I don't know how you could restrict it fairly.

I don't think so, but we should be flexible. If things start going badly, we may want to "hot tub" it. From my experience with Web folks in the Triangle, I doubt this will happen because they don't tend to be chatty.

I like open door policies, just require name and co. identification.

is it the aim of this group to restrict membership or keep the group to a particular size? The Women in Technology meeting in the park last week was packed - 85 women.


Do you think name tags would help at future events, or did you get by just fine without?

live without them, but it wouldn't hurt.

Fine. I would imagine a small, pinned plastic badge to place one's business card to be a viable alternative.

I liked it better without; hd a nicer atmosphere. Did not feel I was there to sell.

I know some won't like it, but I think nametags would be helpful - or just clear holders for business cards.

Name tags = good

I think Name Tags would be great, I got along ok, but I forget people's name, so if they had a name tag, I wouldn't have to say Hey you so much ;-).

I think no nametags is good--it's a good learning experience, to figure out how to work a room. Most situations in the business world are really like this, and you usually don't get the added assistance of a name tag.

Name tags or an official introduction of people would be great.

I detest name tags.

masks would also be neat

Great idea!

I don't think name tags are necessary as long as we introduce ourselves

personally, I'm terrible with names, but I didn't have much trouble meeting people. one thing you could try is (once everyone is gathered), maybe before or after a keynote address, everyone could introduce themselves and say two or three sentences about what they do, it would cut down on introduction time later and make it easier for people with like interests/concerns to hook up.

I think name tags would be a good idea if the meetings get larger.

Yes. Maybe blanks that we can put our biz cards in?

Tags would help, as would titles, or at least some way to match people w/firms, programs, or institutions.

Name tags help to remember name - some folks object to them, but they work for me (however, I wouldn't be broken hearted if we didn't have them).


Would you like some way to be introduced to more people? (Ice-breaking gimmicks?)

.. not so sure about this one. meeting more people would be nice, but i think we all just have to loosen up and break the ice ourselves.

Nah.

I don't feel a need for this. We need to consider the shy, but this seemed to be a pretty self-confident crowd.

yep - like those gimmicks. Even if everyone was sitting down with a beer and we just went around the room - who you are, where you work, throw your business card in a bowl and we post the list of emails.

Yes! (and in some ways, the dorkier the better!)

Maybe. I hate things that put me on the spot (like, stand up in front of everyone and tell us something interesting about yourself! ew.), but I'm also an introvert who sometimes needs a little push to start talking to people I don't know.

Maybe

Please, no cheesy party tricks. As the group meets more and more regularly, this really won't be necessary.

Yes. That would be great.

fine by me

Difficult to do well.

Maybe just a group introduction would be good. I don't think we need too many gimmicks to meet people. We have enough in common that we should be able to find something to talk about.

I'm not one for "activities", so no.

Tags'll go a long way.

"Yes" to the first, and "sure, why not try some" to the second

I'm okay on this one, I just stick my hand out and introduce myself.


Name

We've been mainly using the name InterNetWorkers to describe this project. What do you think?

Cool.

OOOoh, good one.. TripleInterCapping.

no heavy opinion

like it!

Love it!

That's fine. It's nicer than Bunch-O-Geeks, anyhow. ;-D

It is fine.

I like the name, but you might be even better off with just NetWorkers. It still gives you the double-entendre, but is a little shorter and easier to say.

Well, if you are trying to create a real group, and not just a dinner of friends of friends, how about taking over the Triangle Webmasters Group? I think it doesn't meet anymore. The list is already set up. Just an idea.

Works for me. You might want to add more of an RTP/RalDurChapHill spin.

It's got rhythm! You can dance to it!

I think it's great.

cheesy, but descriptive and to the point.

I like it. It sounds like a union. We are a very tough group.

I like it!


Other Comments

I'd like to see more young people at these events... maybe once things really get kicking we could have events geared toward different interests or age groups (but still have the all-encompassing gatherings, too).

One idea I had was to send out invites to CS or Engineering students at Duke, State, NCCU, UNC, and use these functions (or maybe just a one-time deal) as a recruiting tool to get these students to think about sticking around the Triangle and not jetting for SF, Austin, or NoVA after graduation.

It would be nice to do something outdoors (Eno, Jordan Lake, Duke Gardens?) once the weather warms up.

THANKS so much for making this possible -- it was the most fun I've had in a while!

Thanks again for your help in putting this whole thing together--it's a great idea, and I'm looking forward to the next meeting.