Lt. Col. Dwight E. Snider
USAF (Retired)
6/26/78
This is an interview being conducted with Lt. Col. Dwight E.
Snider, USAF (Retired), in Washington, D.C., on June 26, 1978, in
the Army-Navy Club. Present for the interview are Col. Snider
and Dr. Maclyn P. Burg of the Dwight D. Eisenhower Library staff.
DR. BURG: Now, our earlier conversation on the phone and the
notes that we had on you indicated that in 1951 you were at that
stage a Master Sergeant. So your service had begun much earlier
than that I would assume. Had you served in the Second World
War?
SNIDER: Oh, yes.
Q: In the Air Corps?
SNIDER: I was commissioned in World War II through OCS [Officers
Candidate School]. And there was an opportunity available to us
to revert to the grade of Master Sergeant.
Q: After the war was over?
SNIDER: After the war was over. I had had service prior to the
war. Therefore, I wasn't gaining a lot by reverting to Master
Sergeant.
Q: Precisely. Maybe I'd better start then, Colonel, by asking
you this: You were born in Ohio. When was that?
SNIDER: I was born in 1921. Central Ohio near Columbus.
Q: And when had you gone into the Air Corps?
SNIDER: Well, I was in the Ohio National Guard from '38 until
'41. Then we were nationalized in '40. I came out in '41, in
August. And then the war started in December, of course, and I
went down immediately to get in. But I didn't want back in an
infantry division. So I asked for Cadet School. I passed the
required examinations, and was made an aviation cadet. I was
injured in cadet school. Didn't finish cadet school. I got to
flight training.
Q: Had that been in Texas?
SNIDER: It was in Texas, yes.
Q: Not Shepard Field, was it?
SNIDER: No, I was at Fort Stockton, west Texas. A little flying
school.
Q: I see. Was the injury training connected?
SNIDER: Well, yes. I fell off of the horizontal bars while
doing some required physical maneuvers we had to do. From there
I went to an unassigned pool and later to OCS which I have
mentioned. And that's where I was commissioned.
Q: Right. Now that OCS was just general air corps OCS for
administrative officers. Is that the sort of thing that was
involved?
SNIDER: Right.
Q: Then--
SNIDER: I ended up in air transportation in the Caribbean. And
after having been in air transportation career field I personally
saw there was a need for better in-flight service and I'd had a
little home experience in cooking. I'd worked in a hotel as a
room service waiter for a short while in Columbus. And I thought
that I could do something with this in-flight service.
Q: You mean the box of one piece of cold chicken didn't turn you
on? [Laughter]
SNIDER: No. And since the aircraft that we had at Washington
National Airport--that was then the VIP fleet, including the
Presidential aircraft.
Q: This was World War II now we're still talking about?
SNIDER: World War II. And in 1947 when I reverted back to
Master Sergeant, I asked if I could get into this career field,
this phase of the air transportation career field which is in-
flight passenger service.
Q: And you had done this. Pardon me, but you had done this air
transportation as an administrative officer then during the war--
stationed here in the United States or did you also find yourself
overseas?
SNIDER: I spent most of my time right around--in the United
States, yes; but I was overseas for a short while, in the Azores,
but always in the same career field. Loading airplanes, putting
passengers on airplanes, directing people through the border
clearance agencies. And writing some material related to--I did
quite a bit of administrative writing.
Q: Now I would have to ask you this because it's entirely
possible. In the course of that work did you find yourself in
contact with any of the major figures of that period; that is,
the President himself, Secretary of War, any of the major
military generals?
SNIDER: Oh, yes. I've seen Mr. Roosevelt many, many times.
President Roosevelt. Many, many times. Secretary of War
Stimson, I believe it was.
Q: Yes.
SNIDER: Secretary of State--
Q: Mr. Hull.
SNIDER: And then many, many Secretaries of State and Defense and
the various Cabinet members after that.
Q: Did you see Dwight Eisenhower during that period of time;
that is, during World War II?
SNIDER: The only time I saw Dwight Eisenhower--the first time I
saw him was when he returned from the ETO [European Theater of
Operations] on his aircraft. Of course, his airplane--
Q: In 1945?
SNIDER: Right.
Q: You didn't see him when he made the trip in '44?
SNIDER: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. If he made a trip in '44,
I probably saw him.
Q: It would have been late '43 come to think of it. Very late
'43, because it seems to me he was brought from North Africa.
Came back here. Had just a period of perhaps ten days or so in
this general area around Washington, D.C., and maybe White
Sulphur Springs, and then went back over so that he was back in
London either in December of '43 or January of '44, to begin the
plans for Overlord.
SNIDER: Now that you mention it, I did see him at Washington
National Airport. But I was a person who went out and met air-
planes when people came in. As I say, helped them, directed them
through customs, immigration, public health, and security. But
normally if I didn't do that, my boss did it.
Q: So one of you probably met him on that occasion. But it does
not--you had no real contact with him, don't remember having
talked with him, or anything of this sort at that point?
SNIDER: No. In fact, I don't remember the first time I really
spoke to the General. I know I made flights with him, short
flights with him around the United States before 1951. But by
that time--from 19--I started flying in 1947. And almost
immediately I was flying with the Secretary of State, with
General Marshall who was probably the first five-star I flew
with, Admiral Leahy[?], General Arnold from the Air Force. I
flew with General Bradley. So actually I had met several of the
five-star officers in the military before I met General
Eisenhower. In fact I was on one flight to Florida with the
Chiefs of Staff. I forget whether they called them the Joint
Chiefs at that time or not.
Q: Yes. I'm not sure either, but I think they did.
SNIDER: But shortly thereafter we were told, how much truth
there was to this I don't know, but we were told that these
people could not fly together again. Because, it would, of
course, be a disaster if something happened to that aircraft.
Q: Right. Now I'm going to ask you this: At the end of the war
what was your rank at that point?
SNIDER: I was a First Lieutenant.
Q: You were a First Lieutenant. And I should put on tape that
going back, reverting back to Master Sergeant, would in your case
have given you certain very definite monetary advantages. It was
in your best interest to drop back to that high non-commissioned
rank.
SNIDER: Well, not really. The flying pay made a difference
though.
Q: That made a difference. Because I have friends who did that
very same thing at the end of World War II--
SNIDER: Is that right?
Q: --and they did it because to them it worked out better in
terms of pay and allowances and a series of other things and they
just--they looked at it and made a very cold decision that to
stay at the rank of First Lieutenant or Second Lieutenant or
whatever when they could revert to a previously held non-com
rank--now they had prior service. Often these men had had quite
a bit of National Guard Service--fifteen years of it or so, and
in their instances it worked out.
SNIDER: Well, I always describe it this way. By the time the
war was over in 1945 I wasn't ready to get out of the service.
I'd been in the service long enough to know my way around; and as
I told other people, if I'd been jerkin' sodas for this long, I
probably wouldn't quit. So I thought when I went back to Master
Sergeant it might be temporary. I might acquire something which
would allow me to be commissioned at a later date. I have since
taken several examinations. For example, for Warrant officer, I
passed all those. So I wasn't far along-- Then when they came
out with the super grades I was--in my career field I was on the
first group to be promoted to the super grades. So my means of
living were augmented or were enhanced really. So I really
wasn't--really wasn't hurting. And I didn't know until I retired
that I would be able to retire as a Lieutenant Colonel. Because
I'd been overseas apparently, and I missed when Congress passed
this bill which said that if you were disabled due to a service-
connected disability, you would revert to your highest-held
reserve grade. In fact, when I received the orders from the
personnel center at Randolph, I didn't even show them to anyone
that I knew for about eight days. I took them around to the
retirement people around Andrews Air Force Base to see if they
were right. [Laughter] And it took eight days before I found a
Master Sergeant who knew the answers.
Q: Okay--so we go back then to the period after World War II and
you've reverted to Master Sergeant, and you're in a career
situation with regard to air transportation. You have an
interest in the in-flight--now I should ask in the in-flight
feeding, for example, of passengers and handling of them, was
that Military Air Transport Service, MATS?
SNIDER: That was the Air Transport Command.
Q: ATC.
SNIDER: Which later became Military Air Transport Service. I
don't remember exactly when this transpired.
Q: All right. Now you say about 1947 you began to go on flight
status. You began flying as a result of that decision to follow
that career.
SNIDER: Right. To specialize in that phase of the career for
the Air Transportation Command. 'Cause I saw some guys who were
not too good in appearance. They didn't have particularly good
manners as far as handling passengers. They weren't particularly
good cooks, and I thought--well, I'm not a particularly good cook
either--but I can learn. I can add to what I already know, and I
could cook most anything at that time. So one of the first
aircrafts I was assigned to was the one which had the nickname
Sacred Cow, which had been Mr. Roosevelt's airplane and Mr.
Truman's airplane when they were President. And I made some
flights with Mr. Truman, including the last flight he made. And
one historical flight in July of 1947 in which the national--oh
boy, I forget the name of the act--which provided for the
autonomous air force and which created the Air Force actually.
Q: The United States Army Air Force.
SNIDER: From the United States Army Air Force to the United
States Air Force. And that was done on the plane at Washington
National Airport. So I got in on a bit of history there, having
been present when this was signed.
Q: Let me ask you: You would have at that time been in the
business whenever he was on the aircraft of serving Mr. Truman.
SNIDER: Yes. I was flight steward. The flight steward. We
only had one.
Q: How did you find him to deal with? What kind of a man was
he?
SNIDER: Oh, I loved the man.
Q: Did you?
SNIDER: Right from the beginning and to this day I really
admired him. I thought he was very personable, very sincere,
probably one of the most sincere men I've ever met, and I have
before and since met a lot of politicians. And he impressed me--
Q: He stands out even today in your mind?
SNIDER: Oh, yes.
Q: For those qualities?
SNIDER: Yes.
Q: Well, that's very interesting to know. You found him easy, I
assume, easy to become acquainted with. Did you feel relaxed
with him?
SNIDER: I felt completely relaxed with him because he was a
midwesterner, and we had somewhat of a similar accent. But he
just allowed people to relax. If he was busy, you didn't bother
him like you wouldn't bother any other busy person of his stature
or near his stature. So I just did my job. Kept out of sight.
But occasionally he'd stop and talk to you--small talk.
Q: Would there sometimes be a part of the official family, and
I'm not thinking of his own personal family, but the official
family, along with him. For example, Dean Acheson.
SNIDER: I don't remember ever having that nature of a flight
with him.
Q: Harry Vaughan?
SNIDER: General Vaughan, yes. And General Graham, his
physician. In fact on this date that we mentioned, I believe it
was the 22nd of July, '47, but I'm not sure. It was the day his
mother died. And he had gone in the stateroom, closed the door,
to take a nap. In the meanwhile I had gone up to the cockpit to
pass a little time of day and see what the crew needed. And the
pilot, who was Captain Charles Mills, who was not the President's
pilot--the President's pilot was on a mission to Greece on the
new Independence aircraft returning the body of I believe the
Greek ambassador who had died in this country. But Captain
Mills, over the radio, had learned that the President's mother
had died and told me this had to be communicated to him. He
didn't say how.
Q: They never do. [Laughter]
SNIDER: They never do. And I thought to myself, "Well, wait a
minute, this is the aircraft commander's job," but nevertheless
I'd gone back to the stateroom. I had no intention of waking the
President. General Graham could see that I had a problem, and he
asked me what--I forget exactly the context--but he asked me what
was going on, and I told him. I said, "The President's mother
died, General, and I don't think that I should be the person to
tell the President of the United States this." He said, "No,
you're not. I am. That's my job, and I'll take care of it."
Q: Did the aircraft continue on to its destination?
SNIDER: Oh, we were on the way to Grandview at the time. He
knew his mother--someone had called him and told him his mother
was in critical condition. He had jumped on this trip, and I
believe that's one of the reasons why he hadn't signed the Air
Force bill before he got to planeside. And that's why a dispatch
rider brought the thing to planeside on a motorcycle.
Q: I've heard of that happening in the Eisenhower
administration, too, where bills had to go literally out to the
field to be signed. Well, now, that put you on the Sacred Cow,
and here in the United States. What is the next move for you?
Do you go then on board Independence?
SNIDER: No. I only flew on the Independence a couple of times.
In fact, one time with Mr. Truman to the Near South and another
time to Cuba, and that was due to the illness of the regular crew
member. I was the senior man in the steward section immediately
upon being assigned there, and having had the proper security
clearance, I could make these flights. So then I stayed on the
Scared Cow, which was primarily used by the Secretary of State.
And I flew many times with Mr. Acheson, and I flew with General
Marshall, Secretary of State Marshall, and Secretary of Defense
Marshall. All the same person, of course.
Q: Let me ask you, because of his associations with Eisenhower
for many years, how did General Marshall impress you? You saw
him under a variety of hats and at various times.
SNIDER: He impressed me as being a typical high-ranking military
officer. He was not, in my presence--I don't know how to say
this--he didn't have too much to say.
Q: He did not unbend?
SNIDER: No, he was--
Q: Reserved kind of man?
SNIDER: He was more reserved than General Eisenhower. He was
not as affable as General Eisenhower, in my opinion. And he
didn't change when he put on the other hats as Secretary of the
other two Cabinet posts.
Q: Can I assume that his treatment of you was courteous and
correct?
SNIDER: Oh, yes. He was always courteous.
Q: But not a kind of man to pass the time of day in idle
conversation or anything of this sort?
SNIDER: No, he didn't--I didn't make small talk with him, and I
didn't notice anyone that did except persons of near equivalent
rank. Of course, if you're making a comparison between General
Marshall and General Eisenhower, when General Eisenhower had to
correct someone at my level--in other words someone many, many
levels below him in rank--it was generally done by someone in
between rather than himself. Although he would, if he were on
the spot, he would correct you. I remember one occasion when we
were flying somewhere in Europe. We made so many missions I
can't-- But we on the aircraft, we had to carry different types
of set-ups for different types of meals. We would have maybe a
snack meal which would be soup, sandwiches, dessert, so forth, or
we would have a luncheon setup and we'd put tablecloths on the
tables and set up for that. Well, with the size of the galley,
we couldn't carry the equipment for both of these types of
service at the same time. So on this occasion, my assistant--I
had an assistant then. I'd graduated. And we started to set up
the tables as we normally did for a luncheon and the General told
him, he says, "Woody," which was Sergeant Woodward, he says,
"Woody, just feed us on a tray." You don't have to go to all that
trouble of setting up the tables." And Woody came to me, and I
was in the galley doing the cooking and preparing. He said, "The
boss doesn't want us to feed him on a table." I said, "Woody, we
have no choice." I said, "You're going to have to explain it to
him, that we don't have the trays on board because with this many
people, by the time we get the food on board, we don't have any
room left in the galley." So I assumed that he'd explained this
to the General. But a few minutes later the galley door on this
aircraft had an opening in it; the Dutch door folded down. A few
minutes later here's General Eisenhower's head through the door,
and his remark was something to the effect that "One word from me
and you guys can do as you please!" [Laughter] So it was
embarrassing, and it scared me a little bit. But I mean there
was nothing we could do about it.
Q: Did you explain it to him?
SNIDER: No, there wasn't much explaining to do, because I had a
man--my representative was in the back of the aircraft--and I
assumed that he would sometime get an opportunity to explain it
to the General. Now whether he did or not, I don't know to this
day, and I hope he did, because it made us look pretty
unprofessional.
[Laughter]
Q: Yes. There's nothing like having a five-star general pull
that on you. Now--
SNIDER: But this was not characteristic of him to do this.
Generally he would say to Colonel Schulz--or Major Schulz I
believe he was at that particular time--whether he liked
something or not and to change it. But this was a rare incident.
Q: Now, you went over there, I believe you said when we were
talking earlier, you went over there in 1951.
SNIDER: Yes.
Q: When he went over to SHAPE?
SNIDER: Exactly.
Q: Now am I correct in thinking you were on the aircraft that
flew him over from the United States?
SNIDER: No. If I remember correctly, he came over on surface,
and we picked him up on the Normandy coast somewhere.
Q: Now that could be right, come to think of it. I seem to
remember something about a trip by ship rather than flying over,
because I know that Mrs. Eisenhower didn't like to fly.
SNIDER: Well, it's been reported that she didn't. We had some
thoughts on that, too, among the crew. I guess she really didn't
like to fly.
Q: Did you know that she had an inner ear difficulty which she
got here in Washington about 1942. It hit her and she just went
down. Absolutely unable to stand and nauseated. Got a minister-
-her minister came in first I think and then doctors, and from
that point on any kind of quick motion, particularly in the air
in a prop-driven aircraft at the lower altitudes, that inner ear
was gone and she was instantaneously sick. Violently sick. And
she loathed--in fact even now when she comes out to Abilene if
it's at all possible she will drive. If that is not possible,
she's often used railroad, and avoids even under modern jet
flight, where as you know there's very little rough motion. I
think only the most extreme emergency would cause her to fly.
SNIDER: Well, she was a little uneasy in flight generally. And
a lot of aircraft at that time, executive-modified aircraft such
as we had, had altimeters and some instrumentation in the cabin.
We didn't have that in this aircraft. We had a SHAPE plaque in
that location because she was always interested in how high we
were flying, and she was one of the rare people that didn't seem
to want to fly high. Now most people who fly want to fly as high
as they can because you avoid more turbulence--the higher you get
in a pressurized airplane of that kind. And she didn't want to--
she didn't want to fly too high. And I noticed in connection
with what you mentioned and I've mentioned this before to Mr.
Laros and his book, The Presidential Plane, that she did not like
to use portable ladders. She didn't like to use anything where
she could look through the steps and see the ground, see how high
she actually was. So this might be connected with the inner ear
difficulty.
Q: I see. Yes, it could. What is that? Acrophobia, a fear of
heights.
SNIDER: I believe that's what they call it.
Q: Yes. Could be that, too.
SNIDER: And the fact that also I felt that the rungs on this
ladder were--they weren't really rungs, they were flat steps--but
they were perforated to make the ladder lighter, because it was
an electrically-operated ladder. And women wearing high-heeled
shoes, I think, would be a little apprehensive about putting the
heel through one of those perforations on the ladder steps.
Q: And I would imagine, too, that if she's on that thing and
it's the least bit insubstantial, then she maybe feels that first
onslaught of this inner ear thing since her balance evidently--
well, since wartime, has really--
SNIDER: In connection with that there was only one hand rail on
the ladder--and being a portable thing it--she just didn't like
the ladder. In fact, for her we modified the particular ladder
we had and with snaps put a piece of canvas under the ladder so
that she couldn't see the ground--which seemed to help some, but
she never did like that ladder, and I probably wouldn't like it
myself today. [Laughter] I was twenty-five years old.
Q: That's an interesting story. So you met them possibly in
Cherbourg. I don't know where there--or Le Havre--
SNIDER: I think we met them at Maupertus Airport if I remember
correctly which is--
Q: They had been driven there probably?
SNIDER: Yes.
Q: And you met them there. Was that aircraft the Columbine,
8614 or whatever its number was?
SNIDER: No. Actually, when we first went to Paris, we had
selected an aircraft number 8614 to be used in Europe. However,
it had to have some modifications on it because it was a standard
passenger cargo convertible aircraft just off the cargo runs
between Westover Air Force Base and Frankfurt, the Rhein-Main Air
Force base in Germany.
Q: Was it a Lockheed aircraft?
SNIDER: This was the Lockheed Constellation, what they called
the "Small Connie." Technically it was a 749A model.
Q: Four engines.
SNIDER: Four engines.
Q: --and the triple-tail configuration.
SNIDER: Pretty airplane. But we had to put 614 into New York
City to Lockheed Aircraft Service, International, for
modifications for a couple of months, and we used an aircraft we
borrowed from MATS at Washington National Airport. We borrowed
it from the 1254th there, the organization which we all were in
anyhow before we went to Europe. And we borrowed 8612
Constellation for at least two months.
Q: In early 1951?
SNIDER: In early 1951, yes.
Q: While 614 was being turned into an executive aircraft?
SNIDER: It was being completely refitted on the interior, plus a
lot of service bulletins were being updated to bring it up to the
latest configuration.
Q: With regards, perhaps, to navigation equipment, additional
auxiliary equipment, any number of--
SNIDER: Radio gear, safety gear, and as we mentioned the
interior configuration was changed to executive where there were
a couple of divans put in, but at this time the airplane was not
a super-plush airplane. It was comfortable, but it was not one
of the beauties of the world as far as executive aircraft were
concerned.
Q: So you picked them up in its replacement and flew them then
to Orly?
SNIDER: Yes.
Q: In Paris.
SNIDER: Right.
Q: And your station there, at Orly I assume--
SNIDER: Our plane was based at Orly Airport because that was the
nearest commercial airport with complete navigation and radio and
let down facilities, etc.
Q: And you had been permitted to have your wife come over too.
SNIDER: Oh, yes.
Q: So she was there, and you then lived off the field. You
lived in--
[Interruption]
Q: Once he's there with SHAPE, then your task as part of that
plane's crew--let us say that we now have the Columbine. We have
the aircraft back, modified, ready to go. You're then taking him
into various European capitals and other European cities as part
of his duties as Supreme Commander of that force. What would a
typical trip be like for you personally?
SNIDER: Well, as you said, our first task was to take him to
each of the fourteen NATO countries. I believe there were
fourteen at that time. And that was one of the most interesting
experiences I ever had, because I was amazed to see how people in
other countries related to General Eisenhower. They related to
him just as Americans did and in some places--I remember in
Greece the people that met him there--the crowds that met him
there or came out to see him--were just fantastic. Of course, in
England they already knew him. He was an old friend returning.
In Germany, he was fantastically received. But to go to Athens,
Bonn, Copenhagen, Oslo, to Turkey, and to all these countries--to
Spain--to Italy. It was a real experience to see how they
accepted him.
Q: You could even see that at the airport, because, presumably,
you wouldn't be going into town--
SNIDER: I didn't ride in with the motorcade, no. So you could
see this at the airport, and after you got into town you could
also see it around the hotel. People waiting to see him.
Q: It's a fascinating thing, isn't it.
SNIDER: Yes, it is.
Q: And then you see it later on in the Presidency, particularly
in the second term, the kind of personal diplomacy. And I know
that a number of people in the United States wondered about that.
Evidently not realizing the depth of the man's popularity.
SNIDER: No, and particularly since he had been a military type--
Of course, he'd been a very cosmopolitan military type anyhow.
And every GI in the service related to him in some way.
Q: Right. And I think many of our people, on the political
side, many did not realize the deep connections he had. They
thought of him as strictly a military officer, and they'd
forgotten the years in Europe and in North Africa and in Italy
and then back up to England again. That had made him pretty well
known across the rest of the world.
SNIDER: I read something in this Sunday's paper, the Washington
Star, which mentioned that even the politicians didn't realize
how adept he was at politics. Of course, I didn't--I never would
see that side of it. I could see his side as a commander because
when you're in an area of that size with high-ranking people and
quite often the other high-ranking people of SHAPE plus foreign
military representatives and so forth, you overhear things. I
remember particularly when Lord Ismay was the Governor General of
NATO. Of course, SHAPE was the military arm of NATO. And I
heard him tell Lord Ismay something to the effect that two of the
most brilliant men in the service of the United States were
General Al [Alfred] Gruenther and Larry [Lauris] Norstad. Of
course, that was the names he used. I wouldn't use those names.
[Laughter]
Q: They were not in your opinion?
SNIDER: Oh, they were in my opinion. I thought--in fact I flew
with both of them later on, and I agreed with him one hundred
percent, but I wouldn't have called them Al Gruenther and Larry
Norstad! [Laughter]
Q: Interestingly enough, and for your information, those two men
often come, although they're now aging--I think it's more
difficult, but when I first got to the Library in 1970, we
usually could count on these two men arriving together after his
death to lay a wreath around the time of his birthday. The two
men would come in together and do that. Be with us for an hour
or so and go. Very quietly. Quietly came in and quietly left.
Thought you'd be interested in knowing that.
SNIDER: Thank you. After General Eisenhower came back to be Mr.
Eisenhower, I stayed with General Gruenther for five years, and I
really, really enjoyed working with him. In fact, I have an
autographed picture that he gave me without solicitation. And
I'd seen the ones he'd given to the high-ranking people who
worked with him, but mine was one that's more self-satisfying to
me than some of the other ones I saw. It says, "You have been a
perfect assistant." And it goes on with another comment.
Q: What a nice line!
SNIDER: And coming from General Gruenther, now, I've seen him
fire a lot of people on the spot. [Laughter]
Q: That's the impression I get.
SNIDER: Coming from him, that's about as good an accolade as you
can get from anybody.
Q: Now, let's go back to the routine that you would have to
follow. You, as well as the rest of the crew, would be informed
perhaps sometimes with very little preparation time. Other times
maybe you knew quite a bit in advance that you're scheduled for a
flight. You're going to take General Eisenhower to destination
X. What then was your routine?
SNIDER: Well, having learned the General's likes and dislikes
and the Mrs.', and various members of the staff and all, my first
job was to go to the commissary or to one of the airlines or
someplace and buy food. Now, of course, we had certain security
considerations we had to recognize. So I couldn't go anywhere
and say, "I want to buy some food for General Eisenhower." Of
course, it got to where most people knew who I was after a while
anyhow.
Q: I hadn't thought about that.
SNIDER: But we would plan the menu and go and buy the food. Now
the American commissary was at one time in the U.S. Embassy
downtown Paris, next door to the Trianon Hotel. And then later
it was out on the other side of town. So in order to get food,
if I didn't have enough notice to get out there, sometimes I had
problems until I devised a method of buying in advance a certain
amount of steaks and chicken and frozen, canned goods and so
forth and storing them in the small mess facility, the mess hall
at Orly field.
Q: Which was for the flight crews?
SNIDER: Well, no, Orly Field had a small squadron there at the
time.
Q: We did?
SNIDER: We did. U.S. Air Force had a MATS squadron there that
handled MATS airplanes flying between the east coast and Germany.
And sometimes I would have to resort--go to the mess hall and buy
or order food and pay for it cash, because there was a provision
for that in the Air Force regulations and you could buy food at
cost. But one time I remember in particular. The Air Force was
drawing the rations from the Army down at Fontainebleau, and they
for some reason or another didn't seem to always get the same
cuts as the Army did. At least we thought they didn't. So I got
a quick trip to Frankfurt. And I'm out at the airplane ready to
go. Well, normally we didn't serve a full meal to Frankfurt,
because it's around an hour flight from Paris. But this time
Major Draper--who was later Colonel Draper, of course--said, "Oh,
I almost forgot, the General wants a meal." I said, "Colonel,
we're leaving in twenty minutes." He says, "Well, you'd better
get him something." So I had to run to the mess hall. Now it is
almost a fact, at least that the Air Force was serving liver once
or twice a day because that's what they were getting from the
Army at Fontainebleau. And I went to the mess hall and I said,
"I need a few steaks." We only had seven or eight passengers as
I recall. Just the General and a small party. And I said, I
told the mess sergeant, "I need about seven or eight steaks that
I can cook in a hurry because I've got to cook them in about
twenty minutes in order to serve them before we land." He says,
"You'll get liver." I said, "Come on, man." I said, "You don't
give a five-star general liver." He said, "If you get it out of
this mess hall, you do. That's all we've got." So it turned
out, my only salvation was they did find a piece of chuck which I
cut up into steaks and used it. And it turned out. There were
no complaints. It might have been a little tough, but a least
they were tasty and we were complimented all around. But we
didn't have to serve the liver.
Q: Isn't that funny. No wonder you people were suspicious of
the Army.
SNIDER: Well, yes. I believe that we were getting more liver
than the Army people.
Q: And more than was necessary, for sure.
SNIDER: But we were fortunate. For some reason or another they
had French cooks in the mess hall there. They had two chefs and
they were good. And they could fricassee, and fry, and broil,
and boil, and par-boil liver. They could cook it a lot of
different ways. I know the average mess sergeant in this country
wouldn't get by with it, not the way those guys did.
Q: Would you have to carry that food on board the aircraft then,
or was that delivered to the aircraft by some--?
SNIDER: No, I took it myself.
Q: You'd take it yourself. So there's no hands handling that or
no access to that food once you've got it in your hands.
SNIDER: No in-betweens. In addition to the security clearance
we had to have, there was also--we also had to have a annual food
handlers permit. Issued by the flight surgeon. So that was a
protection and that still is enforced within the airplane. It
started during the war I guess.
Q: Now, would you also take liquor on board, Colonel, for
serving during those flights?
SNIDER: Well, yes, for medicinal purposes--no, not really. We
carried liquor. We had a pretty well-stocked bar.
Q: Pretty much the standard stuff that we would expect to find;
bourbon, gin, vodka, Scotch--
SNIDER: Scotch, Canadian, and the normal mixes.
Q: What was the General's preference? Do you recall?
SNIDER: I don't remember. Yes, I do. He liked an Old Fashion
as I recall, and Mrs. Eisenhower liked an Old Fashion. But I was
taught by one of the aides from the House that Mrs. Eisenhower--I
don't think that she knew it, but we always put a little bit of
soda in hers.
Q: A little bit of soda, because she liked that taste?
SNIDER: No, we weakened it a little bit. I guess so she could
keep up with the boys. I really don't know. But I never knew
the General to have more than two drinks, at least on the
aircraft. And as I've said this before, I don't think he really
was one who enjoyed drinking. I think he drank to be sociable.
At least that was the impression I got, and I've served many,
many thousands of drinks to people.
Q: Yes. Many of the old friends, the people who knew them back
as early as 1916 when they were married and knew them then for a
lifetime virtually, said that her general habit was she would
have two in an evening. But that second one got nursed. That
that was her normal routine as long--and so many of them have
told me that independently of one of another that I assume that
that pretty much was her routine.
SNIDER: I found that to be true. Exactly.
Q: But someone on the staff at Marnes-la-Coquette just passed
the word to you--
SNIDER: Suggested that I put a little water in hers--well, I
mean, physiologically it's a good idea because she's not as big
as the guys. And why should she ingest as much alcohol? If she
noticed, she never said anything. But I don't know whether if
the aide that told me that did that to protect himself or protect
her or protect me, but it worked. And we liked it.
Q: So once in the air--I should ask you this too, Colonel. At
that time did you have any responsibility for seeing to it that
the aircraft was absolutely clean and spotless, ready to go when
they boarded, or was that handled by others?
SNIDER: That was totally the responsibility of the air crew,
primarily the stewards. Of course, everyone had to pitch in.
The engineers didn't walk through the interior of the aircraft
with greasy hands or oil on their feet or tar or anything
because--yes, the airplane we thought it was spotless. Colonel
Draper would check it regularly. But we had a routine in the
flight which not only involved cleanliness but safety. And I was
a safety nut anyhow. When you have an airplane and you have a
lot of strangers on board, or some strangers on board, you don't
know what their smoking habits are, what their bathroom habits
are, so we always made it a point for one of the stewards to
check each restroom about every twenty minutes. Make sure the
basins were clean. Make sure there was no flammable materials
left unattended in the bathroom because a fire on an airplane
could be really serious.
Q: You bet it can.
SNIDER: We had had a lot of safety training and we went through
regular drills: ditching, evacuation of the aircraft. Although
technically there were no regulations in the command that we
belonged to at that time, in the USAF pertaining to our aircraft,
we maintained constant liaison with Washington National Airport.
In fact it's like we never left there as far as crew
qualification and crew training was concerned. In fact some
people didn't know I had left there because we were back. I was-
-all the time I was in Europe--I was back at least on the average
of once and sometimes twice a month. And people would see me
around and they'd never know I'd left home.
Q: Interesting. Now I'm getting the impression, too, that
contrary to the airline practices we know today where those meals
come on board and presumably are heated up in a microwave oven or
something of this sort, you're bringing raw materials on board
the aircraft and preparing that meal in flight.
SNIDER: Mostly we did. Now we did cater. I did have an
arrangement with TWA, and where I had food chests where I could
pick up food and I could go in the kitchen. I knew the chef very
well. We had a working arrangement with TWA. Due to the fact
that they admired General Eisenhower, they let us put our
airplane in their hangar. They gave us an office in the TWA
hangar. We were almost divorced from the Air Force Base insofar
as the maintenance and the care of our aircraft was concerned.
Q: You mean TWA did maintenance work on your--
SNIDER: No. TWA never touched the airplane.
Q: They never touched the airplane.
SNIDER: And the airplane was under constant guard by U.S. Air
Force security police.
Q: But they were guarding it in a TWA hangar?
SNIDER: Or in front of the TWA hangar. In inclement weather we
would work on the airplane in TWA's hangar, and we would borrow
tools and equipment and jacks and tugs from them to tow the
aircraft. They were really good to us as a crew. As I say, they
even gave us a little office with telephones. The whole thing.
Q: Very interesting. Just because they seemed to like him and
admire him.
SNIDER: We certainly didn't arrange it, so it was arranged at
some level higher than us. If it were oriented by the military,
they didn't tell us about it.
Q: Now--
SNIDER: You asked me a question.
Q: About your preparing the meal in flight.
SNIDER: Oh, the food. I liked to go to TWA because they had
capabilities that the Air Force didn't have. For instance, the
General particularly liked a little dessert that TWA had which
was nothing more than a piece of iced cake, about twice as big as
a petit four, but they had different flavors of it. And this
gave us a little variety that we couldn't get from the Air Force
food. And they were very nice. Although we carried relatively
quite a lot fewer passengers than a commercial airline carried,
they weren't very helpful in providing us with little special
items. And I hated not to patronize them. Also, finally after
we'd been in Europe for a few months, I was in Lisbon and the Pan
American representative came up and he says, "Why is it you
people always go to TWA for service? Why don't you let Pan Am
put the steps up to your airplane, and the movies, take picture
of them and the press?" So I got to thinking, hey, this might be
a good thing. If we get a little more support, it'd make our job
a lot easier. [Laughter] Also KLM in Holland. When I went to
KLM, they had fantastic kitchens. They at that time were cooking
all the food served on KLM airplanes, freezing it, which was a
fairly new technique for freezing entrees and all your side
dishes. They were putting them in cases, shipping them all the
way to the southern tip of Africa to be returned on KLM scheduled
aircraft.
Q: Good Lord!
SNIDER: Of course any time I got near an in-flight facility, I
wanted to go see it because it was an education and it helped me
to do my job. But KLM also had some artists in marzipan.
Everytime I'd go over there to Amsterdam they would make me a
beautiful floral centerpiece of, generally roses or something
like that, in the appropriate colors in marzipan. And you could
set it on the table. Four feet away, you couldn't tell whether
it was real or not. And Mrs. Eisenhower loved those. And they
were always on a little etched tray; and when we landed at Orly,
I would send the tray to Marnes-la-Coquette. And it would come
back empty in a couple of days so that the next time I went to
KLM or to Amsterdam I could return the tray to KLM. But this was
all free. At that time there wasn't all this nonsense about
gratuities. But what are you going to do when someone gives you
something that's impermanent. Like flowers and so forth. Or
candy. You're not going to turn it down. In fact, I had no
reason to turn it down when it wasn't presented to me. It was
presented to the General and Mrs. Eisenhower.
Q: There's pretty much a common thing, then, if your flights
took you into Amsterdam, KLM was very apt to do this sort of
thing.
SNIDER: Oh, yes.
Q: Now on board were you cooking on a gas range or were you
cooking electrically?
SNIDER: No, electrically. You see, you have a fire hazard with
gas. We had ovens and we had the plain old hot-cups that heated
water, made chocolate, and soup and stuff like that. But at that
time we only had a two-burner stove, which we later augmented to
a four-burner stove. And considering the fact that we didn't
have too many passengers and too many crew, I think the total
complement of the aircraft was less than thirty if I remember
right. I could count it up; four, eight, twelve, sixteen--I
think the maximum we could carry was thirty-two and that would be
using the divans in the State Room for seats which we normally
didn't do, because that's where the General would relax in
flight. So that's the most people we ever had to cook for. And
sometimes it took a little bit of managing to be sure that you
got everything to come out at the right time.
Q: Right. I can imagine it would.
SNIDER: Particularly at breakfast. You couldn't be cooking
bacon and have a couple of skillets on with eggs when you only
have two burners. So what we would generally do in something
like that we'd cook the bacon in advance. And that worked good
too, because if people smelled bacon cooking, they all get up and
get out of the bathrooms and they're sitting there waiting to eat
by the time you get ready to cook the eggs and make the toast.
Q: Yes. Meanwhile you're keeping that bacon warm in the oven.
SNIDER: And then as we put the eggs in the skillet, put the
bacon in beside it. Get it good and hot, and put it on the
plate. Of course we always tried to keep our plates hot--in a
warming oven or even just with hot water and wipe them off,
because the secret to a good breakfast is a warm plate. And, by
the way, as I remember now, Mrs. Eisenhower told us that the best
breakfast she'd had since she left home, were the ones she had on
the airplane, which was not any secret at all. It's a little bit
more difficult. But I didn't like my eggs cooked in butter. I
thought they had a lot more character when they were cooked in
bacon grease. So we'd skim the bacon grease until it was clean.
Bacon grease or bacon fat, whichever term sounds least indelicate
to you. But we cooked her eggs in--or everyone's eggs in bacon
grease. It's a little bit more trouble keeping them from
sticking because bacon has sugar in it, and sugar's the element
that causes things to stick when you cook. And this made us
happy, too.
Q: Was the General's favorite steak? If he had his choice, is
that what he would usually want?
SNIDER: We generally had steak because we had learned that--
well, even before we went with General Eisenhower, we'd learned
that--I don't know, when you're flying with somebody--and I've
said this many times for publication--when they're on the rubber
chicken circuit, they're either going to get chicken, chicken Ö
la king, or roast beef, because that's the easiest thing to serve
at a banquet. So we tried to avoid those items in flight.
Q: Knowing full well what their routine was going to be in
whatever capital they were in.
SNIDER: Especially if you picked them up at eleven o'clock at
night and bring them back from London or something, which we
rarely did, by the way. We generally stayed. But anytime after
someone has been out to a dinner or they're going to a banquet,
we avoided those things because we felt that they wouldn't be
well accepted. So steak is always a good answer. And there are
several different kinds of steak. One steak we used to serve and
he did like was plain ol' rib steak. I mean, not a Delmonico,
but the whole rib steak with the tail on it and boneless. And,
well there isn't to my opinion, there isn't a more tasty piece of
steak in the world than rib steak.
Q: When you could get that in place of liver!
SNIDER: Well, you could always get it in the commissary and it
wasn't too expensive. We tried to keep the cost of meals down.
Q: Because they had to reimburse you for those meals.
SNIDER: We had to collect from each person for each meal. Of
course, if it was household, we didn't worry about it until after
we were back. If the General picked up someone or quite often
he'd pick up a few GI's or officers or their wives, or someone
going the same direction and give them a ride, give them a lift.
And, of course, if they were official guests like Clare Booth
Luce or Lord Ismay or someone like that, then we knew that he
would stand that tab himself. But if it were someone semi-
official or unofficial, then we had to collect from them before
we landed or it's gone.
Q: Yes. Yes. Were any of them shocked?
SNIDER: No. No--
Q: Or did they all pretty much understand what the routine would
be?
SNIDER: Well, we preface our collection with a little remark
that we had to maintain a mess fund on the aircraft, and that the
price of their meal would be such and such. And the price was
never bad. Because we're buying at commissary prices or wherever
we could buy at reasonable prices and there was no markup. Or
there was a slight markup, but that was only to maintain the
fund. In other words, if we'd make a trip and we'd deplete the
fund entirely, then we'd have to start over next month and start
charging a dollar for a steak. We'd have to get up to a dollar
and a quarter until we got enough money. So we always tried to
keep it so the fund was reasonable. We never got over a hundred
dollars for instance, because we didn't need it.
Q: Yes. So that allowed you to buy ahead when you needed to do
that or wanted to do it.
SNIDER: We'd buy enough for a trans-Atlantic crossing which was
normally all we needed. Because before we got to the States or
to the end of the trip we would have reimbursed our fund.
Q: Now when he came back to run for office, did you come back on
that flight or did you remain there at Orly? I remember that you
said that you continued on with General Gruenther.
SNIDER: Yes, we brought him back on that flight because I
remember the President of France, and in fact I have pictures at
home of him shaking hands with the President of France and the
U.S. Ambassador and several other of his staff at Orly Airport.
In fact, for that one instead of leaving from the Air Force MATS
terminal, we left from the main terminal at Orly.
Q: I see. A little more ceremonial.
SNIDER: Oh, yes. This was the official French departure and it
was run to their likes--I don't know by them but certainly the
way they wanted it done.
Q: Did you ever overhear him in that period shortly before he
makes the decision to come over--was he ever discussing it on the
aircraft? Discussing running for office in your presence?
SNIDER: I have heard people mention it. The staff mostly. But,
no, I don't remember ever hearing anyone saying to him "When you
get to be President, you can change all this" or anything like
that. Or even hinting that he might run for President, although
there was an overwhelming aura that--well, that's not the right
word--everyone seemed to think that he would run for President,
but this was only at the last minute before he decided to come
back. I remember he had General Snyder who was his physician,
General Persons, Colonel Schulz. I don't remember any of them
discussing it with him, at least not in our presence. And we
were in and out of the State Room on the aircraft quite a bit.
Q: I assumed that you would be. I assumed so.
SNIDER: Yes. I used to see some pretty good card games. Let me
qualify that--some pretty good bridge hands played by General
Eisenhower and General Gruenther. In fact I used to stand and
watch them because I liked to play bridge, too. And they were--
they made a pretty formidable pair when they played partners.
Q: Yes, that's what I've heard too. That they were just pure
death when they were teamed up like that.
SNIDER: They were tough.
Q: In watching their style of play, and you know what it's like
to watch people playing bridge, playing poker, and almost
anything, did the two of them kid around much or was it pretty
much a quiet and full attention on the game?
SNIDER: Well, it was a game of concentration because first of
all General Gruenther is a master bridge player--
[Interruption]
Q: Yes, you were saying when the interruption occurred that
General Eisenhower was a pretty capable player, high-class player
actually or could have been, and so therefore these bridge
conversations were focused strictly on the game. They played
that game pretty much seriously.
SNIDER: Well, to a veteran bridge player I've never seen them
kid around too much, because the nature of the game doesn't
permit it. The people who play bridge, they wouldn't do anything
to give any indication that they were signaling, and therefore
bridge is a game that they played without too much conversation.
Not--I don't mean solemn or austere, but certainly serious.
Q: Yes. I wanted to differentiate between their probable style
of play and the kind of play that you and I and our wives might
have where there would be quite a bit of gossip and news
exchanged and a much more social occasion, let us say.
SNIDER: Well, it was a sociable game of bridge. There was some
conversation involved, but it wasn't--when it came to the bridge,
it was solid bridge. [Laughter]
Q: That's the impression you get from [C.L.] Sulzberger too who
writes about that period of time in his diary, because he
occasionally kibitzed bridge at Marnes-la-Coquette at exactly
that same time and watched Gruenther and Eisenhower play. And I
got the impression they played it pretty much to win. How about
your relationship with Bob Schulz during this period of time?
Bob get in your hair or--?
SNIDER: Oh, I had known General Schulz since, I think when he
was a Major. I made a couple of trips, and I don't remember the
nature of these trips either, but domestic trips in the States
with General Eisenhower. I liked the guy. I always did like
him. He had a good sense of humor. I would describe him as a
little bit flighty because he didn't always explain, and I have a
tendency to do that myself, didn't always thoroughly explain and
lead people on into the next logical stage of doing things. He'd
say do this, and do that, and we did it. In fact, I saw General
Schulz ten days ago. Had a few pleasant words with him. He
wasn't the easiest guy in the world to work for, but I've worked
for a lot harder. [Laughter]
Q: I see. Not easy in the sense that he took that job, I think
from the time he got it until the time he relinquished it--that
long association with the General--he took it very seriously--
SNIDER: Oh, yes.
Q: --and he always wanted things done and done right now or done
yesterday.
SNIDER: Everything that he wanted done was for the General. That
was primary in every thought he had I think from the time he woke
up in the morning 'til he went to bed at night. And this was
clear when you worked with him, with General Schulz. You knew
this. And you conducted yourself accordingly. He was dedicated
to the General and to Mrs. Eisenhower, too. And in a lesser
respect to the entire household.
Q: Now I want to ask you something about coming back with them,
but first let me ask you to just consult your memory. Have we
overlooked any story connected with either General or Mrs.
Eisenhower or that period of time that you're flying them in
SHAPE? Anything tragic or amusing that comes to mind?
SNIDER: I don't remember any tragic things. I do remember an
anecdote which I've related before that maybe I could clarify.
We always served--on an aircraft you didn't use wide soup bowls
or salad bowls because of the possibility of them spilling. Our
soup bowls and salad bowls were identical, and we would always
serve the soup and salad first. And we wouldn't serve the two
courses at the same time. But I remember that General Eisenhower
had a habit of picking up his bowl with both hands and drinking
the dregs or the remainders. [Laughter] And this always got a
few looks out of the corner of the eye of the people who were
sitting with him. And I've watched him and so has Sergeant
Woodward who was with me at the time. It was amusing to watch
some of the other high-ranking people watch him pick up his bowl,
look at him, look at the other people, and then pick up their
bowl and do the same thing. [Laughter] And he would put his
salad in the same bowl. It was all right with him. Once he'd
drunk his soup, he'd put his salad in his same bowl. And I
thought this was a very homey touch for a man of this stature.
Q: Yes. And I can't tell you whether that was typical of Kansas
when he was a boy or not. I don't think I've ever run across
that story before.
SNIDER: I don't think it was typical, because as I've related it
before, up until that time Emily Post said you don't even tip
your soup bowl with your hand to get the last spoonful out.
Q: And spoon away from yourself and the whole etiquette bit.
And he picked it up.
SNIDER: Right, Right. Exactly. But with the coming of the war
and shortages of food, everyone ate every last scrap of food.
And I guess he did get all of it. Maybe he learned it in England
when they had all the food economies, but--
Q: Could be. Yes. It would be interesting to check that with
some of the officers who were there. Maybe that's exactly what
they did and why they did it.
SNIDER: I guess.
Q: Now on the flight back from Paris to the United States, he's
accepted the idea of running, and he's coming back to do that.
Who came back on that flight? Just broadly as you remember it.
SNIDER: Oh, boy. That would be difficult to say. I just
remember the General--
Q: Mamie was with him.
SNIDER: General; Mrs.; and Rose Woods, Mrs. Eisenhower's maid.
Q: Oh, yes.
SNIDER: I believe she was on that. I'm not sure whether her
sister was on that flight or not.
Q: Mike?
SNIDER: I forget her last name.
Q: Yes. So do I, but I know who you mean. Mrs. Eisenhower's
sister who we think of her as Mike [Mrs. Gordon Moore]. But
anyway I can provide that name for you. Now Bob Schulz was on
it?
MR. SNIDER: Oh, yes. I'm sure he was. My memory doesn't serve
me that well, but that would have been the typical group that we
had. Now, whether we had John and Barbara and the kids, I don't
remember. Because it was more or less an uneventful--it was sort
of a sad trip really.
Q: Oh, it was?
SNIDER: Well, I mean they're leaving, and Mrs. Eisenhower did
shed a few tears. Leaving the home that she'd spent so much
time--I remember particular her commenting on something about her
nice home in Marnes-la-Coquette that she hated to leave because
she had done a complete redecoration job on the interior inside
the home.
Q: With the help of the French.
SNIDER: Yes. Yes.
Q: And it's a very lovely thing as I think--
SNIDER: I don't know quite what extent was done, but I know
there was a lot of care taken.
Q: Yes. Well, it was an extensive thing. Well, for one thing,
as you probably know, a home meant a great deal to her.
SNIDER: No.
Q: She had had so many of them.
SNIDER: Ah, military homes.
Q: Right.
SNIDER: I hate to move now because of it.
Q: Precisely. I can understand that.
SNIDER: And giving it up to someone. Of course, he was being
replaced by General Matthew Ridgeway; and giving up a home to
someone--you've spent a lot of time on your home--I bet you
wonder if they're going to take the same care of it--or
appreciate it as much as you did.
Q: What did he call you, Colonel? Did he refer to you by your
military rank or--?
SNIDER: He always called me "Sergeant." And Mrs. Eisenhower
commented one time though. I've had a nickname of "Snuffy" since
I was in junior high school, which is phonetics, "Snuffy" Snider,
and so on. And so when we first met she asked our names and I
said, "Well, I'm Sergeant Snider. People call me 'Snuffy'." I
said, "My first name is Dwight." And she said, "Well, we always
call him Ike so we'll never get your first names mixed up."
[Laughter] People used to ask me, "Were you named after
Eisenhower?" I say, "Yes, a long time after him." [Laughter]
There was no connection. In fact, I hated the name Dwight until
General Eisenhower became well known, because most people
couldn't even pronounce it. And nobody could spell it. So
that's one of the reasons I had the nickname. And then after he
was President, it doesn't bother me nearly as much. In fact, I
named one of my sons Dwight and he loves that name.
Q: Yes. He gave the name credibility--
SNIDER: Yes.
Q: --for a lot of you. Did you work with him, fly with him,
after he returned and became President?
SNIDER: I made the last flight that the former President made on
the jet after I'd returned to the United States, gone overseas,
come back again when he returned from California after his
terminal illness, I was in charge of that passenger service on
that flight.
Q: For heaven's sakes.
SNIDER: And I didn't even--he was quite ill. And there was a
doctor and nurse in attendance at all times in the State Room,
and he was on the couch. And I didn't think it was a good time
to go up and talk to him, at least--
Q: Right.
SNIDER: I wish I had, but I just didn't feel that I should do it
under the circumstances.
Q: Yes. It's a pity you didn't. You didn't even think to have
your name sent in.
SNIDER: No, I thought about that. I'm not a publicity seeker.
I thought, "Well, maybe I could ask the nurse if she could tell
him that I'm on board." He did catch a glimpse of me in the
cabin but he was preoccupied, and he might not have recognized
me. It had been several years. But I wish--now I wish that I
had just to see what he would have to say. He might have said,
"You're the guy I fired a long time ago." [Laughter] Which I
don't think he did.
Q: He probably would have said something because he had a
phenomenal memory for people and faces. I've encountered that in
stories before. Years passed and he'd take one look. He'd walk
into the Pentagon, and in this case the woman had worked for him
in 1935, and this it I think after he came back in 1945. She was
in the lobby just to catch a glimpse. He saw her. And
immediately arrowed right over there and called her by her first
name, and what have you been doing with yourself. Glad to see
you again.
SNIDER: Well, I've seen him do that on the airplane, or if we
get off the airplane, welcome the party and go around greeting
several people--
Q: Recognize people and call them by name.
SNIDER: I think--General Gruenther was a little more adept at
that than Eisenhower.
Q: Oh, really?
SNIDER: Oh, yes. I thought he was. But there are some secrets
to that. If a general officer has a good aide, and I won't put
the onus on anyone by saying this, if the general officer has a
good aide, and he has some people visiting, the aide quite often
will show him pictures of the people and say this is so and so.
Because I've seen it done.
Q: Yes. Yes.
SNIDER: But I've never seen it done with General Eisenhower.
Q: Thank you very much, Colonel, for this delightful interview.
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