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[nafex] Re: Meader persimmons

Thanks Lon for clearing it up on what turns out to be a more 
complicated situation that one would think.

Chris Mauchline
SE PA, zone 6

--- In nafex@egroups.com, "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@h...> wrote:
> Several years ago I went throught Jim Claypool's notes and used the 
> to work out a theory of the inheritance of sex in American 
persimmons, to
> take into account the appearance of limbs of opposite sex flowers 
on a tree
> (limbs of male flowers on female trees, etc.).  For convenience, we 
> to call ordinary persimmons as having XX for female and XO for 
male, O being
> the plant equivalent of a Y chromosome.  Though in truth I think 
there isn't
> much difference between the X and O, only a very few genes.
>      Opposite sex types had at least one of those chromosomes with 
a mutant
> gene on it that coded for flowers of the opposite sex on the tree, 
and those
> were X' and O'.  A tree that had X'X was a female that would have 
some limbs
> of male flowers.  X'O was a male that would, in some cases, have 
> seedless fruit on it.  X'X' was a female that had a strong tendency 
> produce male limbs, while X'O' was a male that would produce 
perfect flowers
> and normally seeded fruit.  Now, with the X'O', it was possible to
> self-pollinate it and get trees that were O'O' and these, 
> should be essentially perfect flowered types.  However, we don't 
have enough
> test crosses to verify that.
>     What it boils down to, is that it should be possible to cross 
the males
> that produce perfect flowers and get some seedlings that produce 
> perfect flowers, or at least enough to make them truly useful, not 
> something that takes up space once pollination is done.
>     I hope this makes sense to all as it takes a LOT of writing to
> re-explain the whole thing.  I am hopeful of doing a book on 
> persimmons - kind of a new version of "Persimmons for Everyone" and 
> include it in that when/if I can find a publisher.
> -Lon Rombough
> Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, consulting, more, at
> http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom
> ----------
> >From: jhecksel@v...
> >To: nafex@egroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [nafex] Re: Meader persimmons
> >Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2000, 3:14 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >Christopher Mauchline wrote:
> >> 
> >> >The "downside" was that all seeds would produce female plants as
> >> >there was no "y" chromosome pollen produced.Just a thought.
> >> 
> >> Would this be so for plants?  
> >
> >Doggone it.  My wife warned me about putting "Aflict the 
comfortable" in
> >the signature.
> >
> >Christopher, I just plain do not know.  In this case, it is 
something I
> >read.  I cannot say it is something I know to be a fact or that it 
> >something that I tried.  It is just that if I were going to fiddle
> >around and try to make Meader behave as if it were self fertile, I 
> >mulch it to within an inch of its life and I would prune the tree 
> >ensure that sunlight penetrated the canopy.  Unless somebody else 
in the
> >egroup can suggest a better way.  Who knows, maybe a foliar feeding
> >heavy in K before it pushes its flower buds is the trick?  K can do
> >funny things during bud initiation.
> >
> >>Reptiles (I think) don't have a "sex"
> >> chromosome (gestational temp often determines sex), birds have 
XZ and
> >> XX (and if I remember correctly the males are the XX).  Only 
> >> consistently are XX and XY (and even there they've recently 
found a
> >> genus of S. American mice that has XX females and XY Males and
> >> Females (and the XY Females appear to be "super moms").
> >> 
> >> I'm just saying I'm not sure how it "works" for plants - I 
> >> don't know, but it may not be a "no male's produced" situation.
> >> 
> >> Chris Mauchline
> >> SE PA, zone 6
> >> 
> >
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >                                                     -Joe Hecksel
> >                                                      Eaton Rapids,
> >Michigan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >