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Re: [nafex] Re: Global warming? Where's the proof?

OK.  I guess I'm going to venture into this discussion, though I think most 
of the communicants are past the point where convincing of alternate views is 

First, the evidence for short-term recent global warming is strong.  That 
does not mean that everything is warming uniformly warming, but that the 
average temps are warming.  The best measure is not from thermometers but 
from sea level, which reflects net warming both by ice cap melting and, at 
present more important, thermal expansion of the ocean water.  We have more 
more ocean and less land than there was when, for exalmple, i was born 60+ 
years ago.  More relevant to the human condition, deserts are expanding and 
violent storms are increasing.  Most of humanity is dependent on agriculture 
and related food systems that are relatively inflexible regarding such 
climate shifts, and so food shortages may well increase drastically.  There 
is also an increase in violent weather because a) there is an increase in 
energy in the global climate system, b) the systems that moderate weather are 
being destroyed at an exponentially increasing rate (mainly forests, going 
due to cutting and pollution and oceans being poisoned with pollution). Ozone 
depletion is apparently a major player, also, though the mechanisms  are not 
clear.  Ultra violet is the most energetic form of light, and so effects are 
bound to be strong.  There have been major shifts in antarctic winter 
conditons (colder) correlated with ozone depletion.

There is no guarantee that global warming is going to continue warming.  
There are serious and well thought out views that have global warming as a 
precursor to a glacial age, which is long overdue if judged by the past 1.7 
million years of climate patterns.  Some people. on the other hand, feel that 
we would have moved toward another glacial era already if not for "global 
warming."  Most people who have really looked into the matter and have no 
economic ax to grind seem to be about positive that human destruction of the 
enviornment is the major contributor to the climate changes.  Even if you are 
uncertain, why would one feel that materialism and environmental destruction 
is a good way to live.  I have children and grandchildren and I can tell them 
I've done my best to preserve this wonderful gift of a plant for them, though 
much has been lost.  Eachy generation sees the children having less wonderful 
and inspiring experience left for them, and by large percentages.  Why do we 
need to argue about things too complex to understand for reasons to live 
responsibly?  I don't want to know who is right about climate change--I want 
to see us start to live responsibilty and head off the disaster.   I'm more 
than happy to remain ignorant about what catastrophes we might be able to 
engender by overconsumption, overpopulation, and irresponsible and irreverant 
attitudes to the natural world of which we are a part (like it or not).

 For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, 
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence 
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2001, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA  Internships. 

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In a message dated 1/16/01 6:51:08 PM, markie-ct@mail.chouteautel.com writes:

<< It is interesting to note that the last two years have seen some of the 
extreme weather patterns for our area.

We had the longest stretch of over 100 degree days on record this summer past,
but also the longest "white" time ever is just over. We have had snow/ice on 
ground for over a month, I think it is, and this is several days longer than
ever recorded in this part of Oklahoma. While it did get hot and stay hot this
summers, it did it suddenly, without the slow warming we expect, and without 
slow cooling as well. Over-all, I believe we would see a trend toward cooler
temps if we checked the averages for our area. I keep asking: This is global

Zone 6/7, near Tulsa, Oklahoma