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On 4 Nov 02, at 5:22, Elaine Ingham wrote:
>Ok, let's go over this again.
>PLEASE, understand that microbiologists are missing the point
>when they say that E. coli can grow aerobically.
please understand, that soil scientists are missing the point, when
they say the E. coli cannot grow aerobically.
a) ever heard of escherichia switching to mixed-acid-production
(lactic/butryl/acetic and some others) under aerobic conditions ?
b) ever seen them them grow in tatar (minced meat) in a kitchen,
where mother will not die from asphyxation ?
c) ever wondered, why they grow perfectly well on almost any
growth medium like conkey, mda or pda in petri-dishes with these
nice special knobs on the bottom (for air supply) ?
d) one of the major site of nosocomial infection (30% of all
infections) are pneumonias. hardly the proclaimed anaerobic
conditions you assume.
general rule of thumb is, that e. coli will survive up to 9 months in
soil contaminated with them by sewage or sewage sludge (agricola
or ovid life science should give appropriate results)
>So, in the lab, the right temperature, rich medium, often
>antibiotics, and NO SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF COMPETING
>BACTERIA are all required to grow E. coli in
>fully aerobic conditions.
uhhuhh, we find them quite often in cheap foodstuff (when MBM
was still allowed, we found them regularely in 70% of mixtures
containing MBM) with the usual aerobic colony counts of 10 ^8 to
10 ^9 / gr - incubation in usual temperature chambers (overgrown in
foodstuff with colony numbers above). simple pretesting by vicam,
our experienced technicians have a success rate of about 90%
counterchecked by serology.
>If you want, you can ask whoever is saying E. coli grows
>aerobically where their scientific data are, and I'll be happy to point out where they are
>missing the point.
done by this mail. questions see above under a) to d)
- Re: E.coli
- From: Frank Teuton <fteuton@SYMPATICO.CA>
- Re: E.coli
- From: Elaine Ingham <Soilfoodweb@AOL.COM>