Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag? ( was: have british food academics gone rancid?)

From: Douglas Hinds <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 00:14:21 +0200

>> ... mixing compost with rock dust will help prevent leaching of
>> the nutrients in the compost. Micronutrients in the dust will
>> nourish the bacteria and fungi in the compost creating new
>> nutrient cycling, tieing up some NPK in the compost by those
>> microorganisms which then release them to your trees while
>> significantly enriching your soil mix with substances (chitin)
>> that contribute to tilth and water and nutrient holding capacity.

>> That alone should increase total nutrient availability to your
>> trees. I would use 50/50 rockdust/compost...

>> Have you considered applying enhanced compost tea? ...

> I prefer the addition of a generous amount of compost each year,
> as I am primarily interested in the constant build-up of organic
> and humic matter at the base of the trees, and its interaction
> with the soil.

The primary function of compost tea is not to enhance the soil's
fertility but rather, to increase the presence, activity and
diversity of soil microorganisms that generate growth stimulating
phyto-hormones and substances with antibiotic activity against
pathogens.

IOW: Although soil organisms are also responsible for capturing and
facilitating the assimilation of nutrients by plants, compost tea is
used as a means to provide resistance to pests and disease to a
greater extent than compost, since it adheres to the plant's foliage
- something compost doesn't do.

One is mainly directed toward soil improvement, the other toward
crop protection.

...

> I live in Israel, ... It would probably be cheaper for you to get
> your Barhis from the west coast (they grow them there, right?).

Not on the coast, in the desert - the Imperial and Cochella Valleys,
and the Sonora Desert.

> Anyhow, if anyone on the list is interested in this kind of
> bartering, we grow medjool, deglet-noor, barhi and zahidi
> varieties.

What's your soil like? Zahidi's tend to do better than Deglet's in
heavier soils, while Deglet's do better in powdery ones.

-- 

Douglas

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---

From: Douglas Hinds <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:31:27 +0200

> couldn't u add a good compost tea to the compost and get the best
> of both worlds?

One goes into the soil, the other coats the plant.

> this may also give the life in the tea something to eat while
> waiting for something to grow. Life needs life and putting out
> compost tea with a food supply sound like a good idea to me to me
> unless there is lots of food for that life growing now.

The tea concentrates the quantity and extends the application of the
microorganisms responsible for the biological foundations of
agriculture - in itself, an organism based activity. The products
discussed are simply two different applications of that.

So while I agree that both applications are complementary, what you
suggest prevents one of them from fulfilling it's function.

As Elaine has often said, much remains to be learned about the
multiple benefits provided by soil microorganisms.

Nine years ago I purchased a copy of "Investigaciones Hoy", a
magazine published by Mexico's Instituto Politecnico Nacional
(IPN), which contained an article describing seven fungi and six
bacteria that produce Auxins, Giberelines, Cytokinins, Abscisic Acid
and Ethylenes (all of which are considered phyto-hormones, as well
as the actions of each on plants. (I am translating from the Spanish
forms of these words so some may be misspelled in English).

That same year I searched through bio-medical databases for
additional information on some of these organisms and was pleased to
confirm that substances with antibiotic activity against pathogens
are also produced (not surprising, considering that antibiotics were
developed from soil microorganisms), by at least some of those
organisms mentioned in the IPN article.

So if you want to inoculate a plants roots against pathogens that
attack those roots, adding compost tea containing the appropriate
beneficial microorganisms to the soil around those roots might be
wise. But that would be less helpful if you're trying to prevent the
infestation or infection of other tissues.

> Like at my place there is lots for the life in the compost tea to
> feast on but maybe some places might benefit with the tea and its
> food put out at the same time. just a thought

Don't stop thinking. (I know you won't).

As I understand it, compost tea rapidly concentrates and permits the
application of the same microorganisms found in the compost you make
it from to the rest of the plant.

In order to determine your best course of action, you need to know
what you should be guarding against. If your present regimen has
been sufficient with respect to disease prevention, maybe you don't
need to apply compost tea.

Elaine promotes the need for performing a kind of soil analysis
that's not readily available. She's doing that in her Oregon lab
(north of your location), but whether you want or need to go that
route is another matter. It *would* tell you what you have in your
soil, microbiologically speaking.

In addition to knowing what your potential pathogens are and which
tissues they attack, knowing which microorganisms are likely to be
effective against them and how to make sure they are present in your
soil and on your plant -if that's where you need them- would be
helpful.

Is this kind of information even available? Maybe some of sanet's
academics can answer that.

As things stand, a generalized belief in the power of the diversity,
presence and activity of the kind of microorganisms you obtain by
brewing aerobic compost tea to stimulate growth and prevent disease
is probably driving most of those using it.

The question is: Is that enough? Or should we know more?

If so: Why is so much funding channeled toward a research agenda
that focuses on reinventing (subverting, actually) an evolutionary
path that took millions of years to create?

Why are aren't the issues mentioned above being addressed instead?

Are we going to study, understand and work *with* natural biological
systems or continue to labor in bad faith - against the systems that
gave rise to ourselves and life on earth as we know it?

Or is that message too hard to package and sell?

-- 

Douglas