Subject: Re: Pathogens in the Environment

From: Douglas Hinds <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:32:36 -0600

Hello Alan & other saneters following this thread,

In relation to your post of Monday, November 18, 2002 ion which you said:

AI> Once again it is not the pathogens that we should be focusing
AI> on, but the questionable quality of any material that supports
AI> pathogens. ...If the materials that I am using to produce
AI> fertilizers, soil amendments, or growth enhancers support the
AI> growth of pathogens, I am using the wrong materials.

Alan, don't forget about the process. Take milk, for example: aside
from drinking it fresh, you can use it to make any one of a large
variety of fresh and conservable cheeses, yoghurt, kefir or
buttermilk, while the same liquid can fuel the growth of putrefying
bacteria under different circumstances.

As I understand it, that is what Elaine is expressing, and that is
what Elaine is studying in order to explain how, why and when one thing
happens instead of another.

Just as HACCP can be misused (subjected to a shortsighted design
process) so can milk and compostable materials.

Douglas

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From: Dale Wilson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:08:05 -0800

Alan,

> I am concerned by the seemingly cavalier attitude that it is O.K. to
> introduce pathogens into the food supply and the environment. I must
> disagree with Elaine that washing and cooking will fix the problem.
> Many foods are consumed raw and not cooked.

I think the risks being discussed (human pathogens in food from compost
tea application) are extremely low, so low that idealogy, models and
wild guesses replace facts.  It is not clear that there is a problem at
all.  The organic community should keep on eye on this but not worry
too much about it.

> Once again it is not the pathogens that we should be focusing on, but
> the questionable quality of any material that supports pathogens.
> I find it interesting that Elaine states that humans that are health
> compromised are more likely to support the growth of pathogens. Why
> does this same logic not apply to crops, animals, manure, etc. If the
> materials that I am using to produce fertilizers, soil amendments, or
> growth enhancers support the growth
> of pathogens, I am using the wrong materials.

I think you have an overly rosy view of nature.  Anyway, the organisms
being discussed are not *infecting* the crops or the compost, just
hitching a ride.

Dale

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