From london@calypso-2 Mon Mar 14 10:31:01 1994
To: sustag-public@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Date: Thu,  2 Sep 93 14:58:00 -0400
From: glenn.mcknight@canrem.com (Glenn Mcknight)
Message-Id: <60.869.5225.0N18307E@canrem.com>
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Sender: london@SunSite.unc.edu
Subject: Living Machines Conference

NOTICE TO MEDIA

The Coalition for a Green Economic Recovery will hold a conference 
October 1 to 3, l993 to discuss and promote the economic andenvironmental 
advantages of living machines.  Living machines are, simplistically, 
engineered water ecosystems which use natural elements such as sunlight, 
plants and animals to break down toxins, concentrate metals and treat 
organic material in sewage and waste water. Living machines can be part of 
clean, simple, economical and environmentally viable solutions to a number 
of problems.  They offer less costly alternatives for municipalities 
planning to spend billions of taxpayers; dollars on expansions and new 
sewage and water treatment systems.  They do not use chlorine.



















From curtiss@asdi.com Tue Sep 12 21:59:06 EDT 1995
Article: 494 of sci.bio.botany
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!news-1a.csn.net!p37.boulder-2.dialup.csn.net!user
From: curtiss@asdi.com (Brian Curtiss)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio.botany
Subject: Re: Biogeology [Was: Plants and Pb]
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:20:26 -0700
Organization: Analytical Spectral Devices, Inc.
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <curtiss-1109952220260001@p37.boulder-2.dialup.csn.net>
References: <42o0ud$9m7@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <42ofq8$aq9@news1.ucsd.edu> <DEoo2C.AKx@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au>
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu bionet.plants:8030 sci.bio.botany:494

In article <DEoo2C.AKx@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au>,
staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Ian B Staples) wrote:

> "Gordon A. Fox" <gfox@ucsd.edu> writes:
> >hortus@ix.netcom.com (Joel Kroin ) wrote:
> >>Many years ago some researchers found some plants which have an
> >>affinity to absorb gold from soil over gold mine trailings. The process
> >>was not economically feasible. I doubt if further work was done.
> 
> >I don't know about anyone being foolish enough to try to make money this 
> >way, but I do know that (1) a lot of mineral exploration has been done 
> >based on plants w/ known tolerances for particular minerals, and that did 
> >pay off, at least some of the time, and (2) there's now a growing body of 
> >experience in which plants are used for remediating contaminated soils. 
> >There are obviously limitations and problems, but I don't think the idea 
> >is one that should be scoffed at.
> 
> A couple of (rather old) references for those interested in this topic:
> 
> BROOKS, R.R. (1968).  Biogeochemical prospecting in New Zealand.
>         _NZ Sci. Review_ v.26(1): 9-12
> 
> ANTONOVICS, J., BRADSHAW, A.D., and TURNER, R.G. (1971). Heavy metal
>         tolerance in plants.  _Advances in Ecological Research_ v.7: 1-85.
> 
> The former refers, for example, to "... species such as _Viola calamina_,
> which grow only over zinc deposits in Western and Central Europe."
> 
several other references on this topic:

Levinson, A.A. (1974) Introduction to Exploration Geochemistry. Applied
Publishing Ltd., Wilmette, Illinois, U.S.A.

    --- this book has a section on the use of vegetation surveys (that is
where veg. samples are analyzed for their chemical content).  The idea is
that some plants concentrate particular elements above what would be found
in the soil.  Also, a tree's root system "samples" to a greater depth than
could be done by digging a soil pit.

A book by Brooks that might be a bit easier to find than the article
listed by the previous poster:

Brooks, R.R. (1972) Geobotany and Biogeochemistry in Mineral Exploration.
Harper and Row.

Hope this helps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                           Brian Curtiss  curtiss@asdi.com
                /\        
               /  \        Analytical Spectral Devices, Inc.
              /    \       4760 Walnut Street, Suite 105
         /\/\/\/\/  \      Boulder, Colorado 80301 U.S.A.
            /        \     303-444-6522   FAX: 303-444-6825
           /__________\   
                           WWW --- http://www.asdi.com/asd
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Article 2368 of alt.sustainable.agriculture:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oit-mail2news-gateway
From: steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: architect seeks info on ecological fishfarming
Date: 22 Feb 1994 21:41:43 -0500
Organization: sustag-public mailing list
Lines: 47
Sender: daemon@samba.oit.unc.edu
Distribution: world
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References: <CL2uEw.D0u@westminster.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: samba.oit.unc.edu
Content-Type: text

Thomas--

The New Alchemy Institute ceased functions in 1991 due 
primarily to financial problems.  Just recently, New 
Alchemy publications have become available through a 
group of former New Alchemists who still live in the
area.  The Green Center can provide a list of for-sale
publications.  

Talk about a history of appropriate technology and 
alternative agriculture, New Alchemy's publications still 
provide a decent introduction to aquaculture systems, composting 
greenhouses, bioshelters, cover crops for the Northeast, etc. 
Contact:

    The Green Center
    237 Hatchville Rd.
    East Falmouth, MA  02536
    (508) 564-6301

Re: ecological fishfarming.  Some of the most advanced 
models of water purification and sustainable food production 
are the 1) solar aquatic ponds (pioneered in part by
John Todd, formerly of New Alchemy) that use plants like water
hyacinth to purify waste water and 2) recirculating hydroponic 
systems in which vegetable beds are fertigated with 
effluent from tilapia aquaculture.
 

> 
> Hi, are you involved with ecological fishfarming ? I'd be 
> interested in ecological fishfarming and waterpurification.
> Please don't hold back your most precious information.
> As a postgraduate student I'm doing a architectural project
> on fishfarming. 
> Do you know the phone or fax number of the NEW ALCHEMY INSTITUTE
> East Falmouth, Massachusetts 02536 USA ????
> Do they have an e-mail address ???
> 
> Thank you for your help!!!
> 
> You can contact me at the UoW FAX: 071-911 5190 PHONE: 071-911 5000 ext 3332
> 
> Thomas Reinke, Arch. Dip. I
> 
> 



From jimdyer@csn.org
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 08:25:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jim Dyer <jimdyer@csn.org>
To: "Jennifer L. Wilkins" <jlw15@cornell.edu>
Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: water purification 

My guess is that you may be looking for John Todd, Ocean Arks 
International, 1 Locust Street, Falmouth MA  02540 Phone: (508) 540-6801.

Jim Dyer, Rocky Mountain Institute, Snowmass Co 
************
On Tue, 4 Oct 1994, Jennifer L. Wilkins wrote:

> I am trying to find the name and address of a man in the north east U.S.
> who has setup a working water purification system using plants.He had a
> large green house filled with various vessels containing plants and water
> animals and microbes and was able to completely clean polluted water. He
> was featured in a television program dealing with world water problems. The
> program was with David Suzuki and aired last spring. Thanks
> 
> Jennifer L. Wilkins, Ph.D., R.D.
> Senior Extension Associate
> jlw15@Cornell.edu
> 
> Ishmael knows.
> 
> 
> 
 ¯€  .    ¨   ..   ·   1    ¾€  2    Æ   3    Í€Ä 4                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
Sat 20 Feb 93  9:10
By: ALLAN BALLIETT
Re: New Alchemy/Ocean Arks

Here's documentation from the founder himself, John Todd, that New
Alchemy is dead, but the spirit goes on living and WORKING towards a
sustainable future!

==================================================

January 1 993

Dear Friends of New Alchemy

As you know, last summer the New Alchemy Institute officially closed
its doors. You may also know, however, that neither the vision nor the
work that began there have been lost. With the founding of Ocean Arks
International in 1983. there began a new phase in the research and
implementation of the ideas that first took form at New Alchemy.

Like New Alchemy, Ocean Arks was founded by John Todd and Nancy Jack
Todd and is a nonprofit research and education organization dedicated
to the creation and dissemination of the thinking and the technologies
fundamental to a sustainable future. Drawing on what we learned of the
ecology of aquatic ecosystems at New Alchemy, we since have created a
family of living technologies that now are restoring waters polluted
by human and industrial wastes to drinking water standards.

Working through The Center for the Restoration of waters at Ocean
Arks, we have created one of the most advanced ecologically engineered
waste treatment systems in the world which, after a few years of
extensive verification, is now legally permitted in two states. We
have begun to restore a highly polluted pond in Massachusetts w ith
our new floating Living Machine, Lake Restorer 1, opening a channel
for its use on water bodies the world over. Our Providence, RI and
Marion, Me research facilities have been making ground-breaking
discoveries in purifying industrial and toxic wastes. We have
demonstrated, on a laboratory scale, that Living Machines can break
down such highly toxic wastes as those found in Chattanooga Creek, for
which we have attracted the attention of Vice President-elect Al Gore.
We have also received continuing support from Congressman Gerry Studds
and Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy and
Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, to name a few, giving us a strong
vote of encouragement with the political leaders in Washington. Our
education program is reaching professionals and students with courses
in ecological design skills, aquaculture, food production, waste
treatment and environmental repair. Recently, we were granted the
Discover Award for Technological Innovation and the Teddy Roosevelt
Conservation Award by President Bush.

We have managed not only to survive but to move ahead with these
developments during a period when the environment was a low priority
in the eyes of government and most industry. But we have done so at
the cost of incurring considerable debt believing that the ideas were
too important to let die. Now, with the renewed promise of the
incoming administration and because of your support for New Alchemy
over the years, we are again turning to you to ask you to remain a
part of keeping its mission alive.

If you were willing, each of you could help us in some way. It would
be wonderful if you would consider any of the following suggestions:

1. Contribute towards a debt reduction fund or to our general support.
2. Help us to create an endowment, which would secure a future for our
work.
3. Help us find customers/clients in industry and in various
communities who need help cleaning up pollution and repairing
environments. Living Machines can upgrade drinking water reservoirs,
restore polluted water bodies and purify wastewaters.
4. Help spread the word. Subscribe to our publication, "Annals of Earth" an
updated equivalent of the old "Journals of the New Alchemists " .

1992 was a tough year for us. Salaries weren't always paid, yet our
morale remained high. We are a committed and talented organization -
dedicated to the Earth and to the training of its stewards. We are
ready with the skills and technologies to make things happen. It is
our hope that there will be a new environmental agenda over the next
decade and we want to play a key role in it. Please help us.

Sincerely,

John Todd, president

P.S. Your contribution is tax deductible. We now accept MC/VISA and
American Express.

================================================== Annals of Earth

The exchange of ideas feeds the roots of new thought. To this end the
Center for the Restoration of Waters publishes "Annals of Earth" to
disseminate the ideas and practice of ecological sustainability
throughout the world. It seeks, through written communication, to
foster the emergence of a new global culture. Published 3 times
yearly, "Annals" has an international roster of scholarly,
philosophical and ecological writers who deal with planetary issues
from a wide range of perspectives. While "Annals" covers and
chronicles the Center's activities, it also publishes articles that
range in subject from the philosophy of ecology, basic biology, hands
on environmental projects, to the Gaia Hypothesis. Distributed
world-wide, "Annals" is an intellectual forum for the presentation of
leading edge environmental thought.

A Publication Of Ocean Arks International and the Lindisfarne
Association Volume X, Number 2, 1992


$? Contribution
$15 Student/unwaged member
$30 Individual member
$35 Canadian member
$ 40 Foreign member
$ 50 Family member
$100 Supporting member $1000 Patron member

Membership includes subscription to "Annals", course announcements and
contributes to the work of OAI. Please make checks payable to Ocean
Arks International. We now accept MC/VISA & American Express. To renew
by phone, please call 508-510-6801.

  A Publication of Ocean Arks International and The Lindisfarne
Association

  OCEAN ARKS INTERNATIONAL

 * Origin: The Twilight Clone (1:109/70.914)
From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Fri Apr 15 23:12:30 EDT 1994
Article: 29587 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for a [Pressure Treated Lumber faq1 - gen. info]
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.654.2817.0N429249@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 90


Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


D>"I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo;" -- Elrond

Great tagline Doug,

Here is my FAQ on Arsenic Lumber, and in another post, the product
safety sheet that is *supposed* to be handed out to every purchaser of
the product which was a part of the EPA agreement to allow the product
to be sold.

Additional information on CCA, Chromated Copper Arsenate.

The wood has been tested by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency,
Hazardous Waste section to be over 3000 parts per million arsenic. The
EPA limit on arsenic in sewage sludge for unrestricted use is 11 PPM.
There is at least one case of 24 cows dying from eating ash from CCA
wood ash in MN and several cases in other states. There is another case
of arsenic poisoning in a Wisconsin family from a backdraft in their
fireplace while burning treated wood.

Arsenic is associated with hair loss, diarrhea, asthma, skin cancer and
other skin disorders. Particular caution should be exercised if the wood
has a white, gritty residue on the surface, as these may be arsenic
crystals. Penetrating oil stain may slow down weathering of fibers and
reduce arsenic surface residues. The exposed ends of boards are more
likely to leach arsenic than the rest of the board. The wood should be
resealed every two years.

Of particular concern is sawdust left at construction sites that can he
ingested by children, pets, or become exposed to the skin. Runoff of
sawdust into ponds, pools, wells and gardens is another concern. Arsenic
is rated by the EPA as a class A carcinogen, the top level of risk.
Children "mouthing" the wood are also at risk, especially the board ends
that release twelve times the arsenic of the rest of the wood. This is
especially a concern as arsenic treated wood is a common component in
playground equipment. Tests for arsenic beneath children's play
equipment have run as high as hundreds of times above background levels.

Treated wood is also a problem in disposal. While such a broad range
biocide such as CCA retards decay, it does not stop it. Estimates of rot
resistance of 20 to 50 years are common. The wood will *eventually*
decay, and with the sawdust and ends from construction, will have to go
somewhere. The treated wood industries have lobbied to have CCA treated
wood exempted from hazardous waste designation through a de-listing
procedure that is still unclear. The product is currently allowed to be
sent to conventional and demolition landfills.

It is often burned with other wood wastes and is commonly chipped into
landscape mulch or compressed into toxic fuel pellets. It releases toxic
fumes and ash in house fires, putting neighbors and firefighters at
extra risk. The ash from a burned CCA patio deck is not managed as the
hazardous material it is.

The argument from the treated wood industry has been that the arsenic
does not leach from the wood fiber under normal soil conditions. While
this is somewhat true, it is misleading. The wood will _eventually_
decay and leach its metals and there is currently no safe disposal. The
practice of burning wood scraps and the mismanagement of the wood both
residentially and commercially has resulted in airborne arsenic levels
increasing nationwide, especially in the major cities where scavengers
burn scrap wood for heat.

Most uses of the wood such as decks, fences, and stakes are not
necessary for such extreme wood treatment. Only in the Southeast is the
potential of climate high in promoting decay. There is no need for
treated wood at all in the west, except on the northwest coast. Because
of these concerns, but primarily due to the threats of the wood to
commercial organic wood recycling, I am recommending that the product
only be sold or used by licensed and trained professionals, similar to
other hazardous pesticides, and that it be banned from non-hazardous
land disposal sites.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * April 9th - A bird in the hand craps on the wrist.


From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Fri Apr 15 23:13:54 EDT 1994
Article: 29588 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for [PT Lumber faq2-Consumer Information Sheet] 
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.655.2817.0N42924A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 63

Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


Here is the Consumer Information Sheet about pressure treated
wood that I received from the American Wood Preserver's
Association, PO Box 5283, Springfield, VA 22150 that is SUPPOSED
to be provided to every purchaser of CCA, ACA, and ACZA treated
wood. This is exactly as it appears without editing.

"This wood has been preserved by pressure treatment with an EPA
registered pesticide containing inorganic arsenic to protect it from
insect attack and decay. Wood treated with inorganic arsenic should be
used only where such protection is important. Inorganic arsenic
penetrates deeply and remains in the pressure treated wood for a long
time. Exposure to inorganic arsenic may present certain hazards.
Therefore, the following precautions should be taken when handling the
treated wood and in determining where to use or dispose of the treated
wood.

USE SITE PRECAUTIONS Wood pressure treated with waterborne
arsenical preservatives may be used inside residences as long as all
sawdust and construction debris are cleaned up and disposed after
construction. Do not use treated wood under circumstances where the
preservative may become a component of food or animal feed. Examples for
such sites would be structures or containers for storing silage or food.
Do not use treated wood for cutting boards or counter tops. Only treated
wood that is visibly clean and free of surface residue should be used
for patios, decks, and walkways. Do not use treated wood for
construction of beehives that may come in contact with honey. Treated
wood should not be used where it may come into direct or indirect
contact with public drinking water, except for uses involving incidental
contact such as docks and bridges.

HANDLING PRECAUTIONS
Dispose of treated wood by ordinary trash collection or burial. Treated
wood should not be burned in open fires or in stoves, fireplaces, or
residential boilers because toxic chemicals may be produced as a part of
the smoke and ashes. Treated wood from commercial or industrial use (e.g
construction sites) may be burned only in commercial or industrial
incinerators or boilers in accordance with state and federal
regulations. Avoid frequent or prolonged inhalation of sawdust from
treated wood. When sawing and machining treated wood, wear a dust mask.
Whenever possible, these operations should be performed outdoors to
avoid indoor accumulations of airborne sawdust from treated wood. When
power sawing and machining, wear goggles to protect eyes from flying
particles. After working with the wood, and before eating, drinking, and
use of tobacco products, wash exposed areas thoroughly.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * April 9th - Galactic Wanderer



From london@calypso-2 Fri Apr 15 23:43:44 1994
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 23:40:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry London <london@calypso-2>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Article 25759 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber [PT Lumber faq3 - more general information]
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL


Article 25760 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: arsenic soil contaminatio
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4197.2552.0N41F04B@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 31

This message was originally addressed to Catherine Albert
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------

CA>Jim,
  >Hi, my name is Catherine.  I live in Colorado Springs, CO in a rental home a

CA>am curious about HOW TO TEST some LUMBER used for a retaining wall in the
  >backyard.  My concern is that this wood is also a defining edge of my
  >vegetable
  >garden.  Is there somewhere I could send a chunk of this wood to have it
  >analyzed?  I have no idea if it was treated lumber or not; I suspect it was.

CA>Thank you for the information...

Hi Catherine,

Try the local Agricultural extension office, the university, an
agricultural testing laboratory, or a private laboratory.  Have them
test for soil mineral content, making sure that there is a test for
copper in the bunch.  Arsenic testing is expensive.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 25th - Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Took the Dog. Dorothy.

cc: all


Article 25586 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:27:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 38

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Ray Foster to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber


RF>OK, a question from someone to whom this is all new: how can you tell if lum
  >has been treated with CCA?

RF>We bought a house this past summer. The previous owner had built some raised
  >gardens beds using wood. How can I tell whether this is pressure treated woo


Ray, you bring up the chief reason why I believe that arsenic amended
wood should be installed only by licensed pesticide professionals and
that its installation should be clearly identified in the deed of the
property, with full chain of custody like hazardous materials in the
commercial arena.

Aside from the distinctive green or brown tint, there really is no way
to tell.  You may try notching or scratching the wood and see if it is
still stained, since the arsenic, lead, copper, and chromium penetrate
to the core of the wood.

This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

Testing for copper is much cheaper than arsenic, if you care to have the
wood analyzed.



Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - COMPOSTING: Because a rind is a terrible thing to waste.


Article 25634 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew
From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Date: 21 Jan 1994 18:10:02 GMT
Organization: Sun
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mk06jqINNkjc@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous

jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
>be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
>"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

I think you'll have better luck getting its presence recorded on
the deed.  DIY handymen (and probably some professionals) would
try to remove the warning from visible surfaces with a plane, and
then you have toxic wood shavings in addition to the toxic
sawdust and wood scraps.

BTW, thanks for pointing out that the big problem isn't whether
or not the toxins leach into the garden soil, but what becomes of
the treated wood after its useful life.

Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM     The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth?
                             Who makes him deaf or dumb?  Who gives him sight
Soli Deo Gloria!             or makes him blind?  Is it not I, the LORD?"


Article 25575 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!daneel!seldon!nathan
From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Number 6)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Message-ID: <1994Jan19.003211.22232@daneel.foundation.tricon.com>
Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc., Lompoc, CA
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 00:32:10 GMT
Lines: 32

I think the *best* way to get people to realize the dangers of
pressure treated lumber is the one suggested by "Mr. Compost" (sorry,
I'm in my "primitive" news reader now...so I can't get the real name).
Here in California and probably just about everywhere else, you have
to sign your life away on lead paint.  It is a requirement for most
types of loans (mostly Federal Gov't backed ones).  We had to sign so
many disclosures to buy this house it was incredible  but I was glad
that they TOLD us what we were getting into (possibly).  [We don't
have lead paint, btw].  So, a first step is getting the state or the
federal government to look at the research and then draft up a
disclosure statement that must be signed by all homeowners when
applying for the loan.  This does NOT mean that people will actually
read it, unfortunately.  But, if they sign it, and then try to sue
somebody, it'll fly back into their face for not reading it.

Also, I think all landfills that are unlined should just stop taking
the stuff.  We get all our water from the ground and I shudder to
think what the local toxic waste dump cleanup that's in progress is
finding out!  (Not to mention what Unocal Oil is dumping into our
water).

btw  does anyone know how to tell pressure treated lumber? I may have
some of that in my garden  hope not.  I don't think it is because
it's falling apart and rotting and is not all that old.  ("Railroad"
ties as an edging material).



***********************************************************************
Nathan D. Lane, VP Triicon Systems. Lompoc, CA  (805) 7331849 
NaN != 6, 6 == 1.  I am not a number, I am a free list!
I'm a programmer  my computers are more valuable than my cars.


Article 25595 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4061.2552.0N41EEDF@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 22:50:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 153

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim

P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.  As to whether or not
arsenic is harmful, you *must* be kidding.

My problem with treated wood is its uncontrolled use, its misuse, and
its ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation
where it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not
in contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised, but people use arsenic wood
because they are too lazy to seal pine.  Arsenic wood should be sealed
anyway, but too few do it.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.
Sawdust run off has been linked to deaths of exotic fish in back yard
ponds.  Sudden kills of Koi after installing a deck or other arsenic
landscape project are being increasingly reported.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome or exposed to arsenic requiring medical attention from arsenic
fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and outdoor fires.  I have
copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects of arsenic poisoning
and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, which even
in small quantities can cause skin cancer.  The doubling of the rate
of skin cancer (albeit coincidentally) parallels the time period when
arsenic wood was introduced to the environment.  The pathways of
exposure can come from working with the wood without gloves or
protective clothing or getting the dust on the body. It can also come
from walking on treated wood with bare feet or mouthing the wood,
especially cut ends and nicks. Ash contact with the skin, even from a
fire miles away can cause skin cancer.

Children playing in the dirt where arsenic sawdust was left years
previously can be a means of arsenic exposure.  The arsenic levels under
treated wood play equipment have been tested at 200 times background
levels.  The documentation on the use of treated wood tell users to wear
protective clothing, shower after working, vacuum the sawdust, refrain
from smoking and eating, and to send the scraps to the landfill.  How
often are buyers give the instructions for safe use?  How many follow
the recommended practices? Hardly any, which is why I call it a product
out of control.

P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.  The treated wood industry has repeatedly
engaged me on other Bulletin Boards in arguing the issue of
leachability, of which I concede their points.  Frankly I am surprised
they are not here on rec.gardens with their party line of "no leach in
soul equals safe" argument.  My argument is not leachability and uptake
by plants, it is the issue of the widespread abuse of the product that I
am concerned about.

P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust, waste, and ash.   The rate of
decomposition of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been
on the market for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the
past fifteen. The wood has yet to rot to the point of being a leaching
problem...... yet.  No one denies that it is a matter of time when it is
a leaching problem.  Then we will have arsenic on root vegetables,
children eating arsenic contaminated soil, children playing in arsenic
rotted wood, airborne arsenic dust, arsenic silt run off and so forth.
It will be a major problem around the year 2025.  A sad legacy because
people won't take the effort to seal pine when building decks, in my
opinion.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site. I say to stop its uncontrolled sale and reserve its
use for applications that are demonstrated to require a biocide treated
wood.  Then to track its location and ultimate disposal, just like any
other biohazard is managed in commercial use.  The household exemption
for hazardous waste can no longer be swept under the rug.  What goes
into the environment has to be accounted for.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - It is not logical, but it is often true.


Article 25581 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news
From: os2user@brdiller.houston.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <CJwHpI.3tz2@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:39:18 GMT
Lines: 95
Reply-To: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: brdiller.houston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Federal Sector Services Company, Houston, Texas
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v0.20 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers

In <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>, pauls@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Richard J. Pauls) writes:
>In article <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>
>>...
>>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
>>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
>>ensure safe ultimate disposal.
>>
>>How about it, rec.garden members?
>>
>>Mr Compost~~~
>>
>>Jim McNelly~~~
>
>Jim
>
>I am very concerned about arsenic poisoning, and I plan to remove the treated
>wood from around my gardens this spring just to be safe.  That is, just
>IN CASE it actually is harmful.  I can due without the wood, so why take
>any chance is my position.

I think that this pretty well summarized my opinion on this matter until I
read Jim McNelly's post, which you've partially quoted above.

>
>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
>harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
>So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.

I think you're missing what I considered to be Mr. McNelly's main point:

    "Properly processed treated wood does not leach arsenic under
     normal conditions. How we, the public and the environmental
     community, focused on this one narrow issue and missed the
     rest of the story, the story about the sawdust, the scraps, the
     ash, and the ultimate disposal is shameful."

Now, we can all argue here about how much arsenic actually leaches
into our garden soil from CCA lumber under different conditions, and
we can talk about what PPM of arsenic in our garden soil might be an
intolerable amount, and so forth - and those would probably be some
very useful discussions - but the larger issue is what is to become of
all our CCA lumber when we're finished with it.

Is CCA lumber going to be the 'asbestos' of the 1990's or 2000's?

>Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
>lumber?  The warning label that comes on the wood is not conclusive.
>In reading this group, there seem to be more posts
>saying the wood is ok than there are saying it is harmful.  Without
>conclusive evidence from multiple sources I do not believe we or any
>other group will have a chance of removing this poison from common
>houshold use in decks and gardens.  I heard about the article in  Organic
>Gardening, but have not yet read it.  I also heard that it was not
>quantitative.  I want more than just scare tactics from the environmentally
>extreme.  I want the facts.  Is this wood dangerous or not?  Until the
>facts are revealed, I will not be using treated lumber just in case.
>If there is so much concern about this stuff why arn't there more tests?
>I want answers like this:
>
>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
>of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
>soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the vegetables.
>Then publish results:
>

 <deletions>

>
>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
>harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

And if the levels of leached arsenic proved acceptable to you, will you
then go out and buy a couple of tons of CCA lumber and place it in your
backyard?

Are you prepared to handle the lumber properly during construction? What
are you going to do with the sawdust and scraps - send them to your
local landfill? Burn them? And what will you do in 20 years when the
lumber has turned to mush, or in 5 years when you decide to remodel or
re-landscape?

Please re-read Jim McNelly's note. Arsenic 'leaching' is not CCA
lumber's biggest liability.

>
>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?
>
>
>
>Rich

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry R. Diller                              IBM Federal Sector Sevices Company
EMail address: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com         Houston, Texas USA



Article 25621 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4079.2552.0N41EF4E@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 00:02:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 119

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim


P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.

My problem with treated wood is is uncontrolled use, its misuse, and its
ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation where
it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not in
contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome from arsenic fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and
outdoor fires.  I have copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects
of arsenic poisoning and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage
come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, even in
small quantities which the main symptom is skin cancer.  This is caused
from working with the wood without gloves or protective clothing and
getting the dust on the body.  It can also come from walking on treated
wood with bare feet.  Ash contact with the skin, even from a fire miles
away can cause skin cancer.


P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.


P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust and ash.   The rate of decomposition
of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been on the market
for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the past fifteen.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination


Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - Another conundrum to ponder


Article 25573 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron)
Date: 19 Jan 1994 11:32:20 -0800
Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
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In <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> Bob Klebba
  <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu> writes:

>In article <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> Schooder,
>bene@u.washington.edu writes:
>>I read an article in Organic Gardening...a couple months ago,
>>can't find the issue right now...that said more nasties DO leach
>>out of PT wood than the industry would like you to know.

The "more than the industry would like you to know" phrase was Schooder's,
it's not in the article.

>How much is more than we would like to know?  Is it 1 ppb, 5 ppb or is it
>a ppm?

It looks like the numbers are in the low ppm to very high ppb range. 
(They aren't directly stated but can be inferred from other numbers in
the article.)

>        I don't want to defend the wood products industry, but in my
>experience, OG isn't known for their absolute quantitative accuracy.  How
>much can leach out before we need to be concerned vis a vis all the other
>pollutants we expose ourselves to everyday?

I've typed in some excerpts (about half) of the Organic Gardening
article, attached below.  I'm glad I haven't built my raised beds yet.

Matt Heffron

----------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from the Organic Gardening article:
"TREATED WOOD:  Yes, it's still toxic!"
by Cheryl Long and Mike McGrath
(Jan 94, pp 71-74)

Recently, a Texas count extension agent pronounced
pressure-treated wood safe to use in raised bed gardens. 
Newspapers, industry magazines such as _Nursery News_, and
even another major American gardenign magazine all reported
this finding not only as truth, but as the final word on
the subject.

   ...Many readers have written to ask if we have changed
our opinion on treated wood and/or to comment on this new
report from Texas.

   No, we haven't changed our opinion and that Texas report
was not a true scientific study.  It was a half thought-out
experiment conducted by a local extension agent and an
extension vegetable specialist after gardeners in their
region became concerned following our reports about the
dangers of using "pressure-treated" wood (which is actually
made with two heavy metals and arsenic, not "pressure" as
the companies that produce this stuff would like you to
think).

   Anyway, these two guys took 15 soil samples from raised
bed gardens framed with CCA (chromated copper arsenic)
treated wood and had them tested.  Despite the fact that
two different labs found measurable amounts of arsenic in
every instance, these two rocket scientists still concluded
that the tests had somehow "confirmed that arsenic was not
leaching from the timbers."

   ...In a _real_ study, the arsenic levels found in the
treated-wood soil would have been compared to the amount
(if any) of arsenic found in similar soil that wasn't
surrounded by treated wood.  All they _can_ say for sure
from their limited testing is that there was definately
arsenic in every soil sample taken near treated wood.  How
they determined that the arsenic did not come from the
treated wood is beyond us.
   ...

   We, on the other hand, have continued our research on
"pressure-treated" wood and are even _more_ convinced than
ever that this stuff should not be used in organic gardens.
Here are excerpts from some of the additional scientific
studies we've reviewed recently:  

* "This study suggests that leaching of metals from treated
wood in acidic waters (natural or resulting from acidic
precipitation) _[Editor's Note: acid rain]_ may present an
unacceptable environmental risk...Leaching of metals from
weathered wood found to be very similar to that from new
wood...Results from this study suggest that organic acids
may cause greater leaching from CCA-treated wood than
mineral acids...Organic acids are present in...soils, bogs
and wetland areas."
-- Warner and Solomon, _Environmental Toxicology and
Chemistry_, 1990

* "It has been shown that organic acids may cause
significant leaching of all components of CCA...CCA-treated
jack pine blocks exposed to vegetable compost had greater
leaching losses (12 to 13 percent CCA leached) than matched
samples in distilled water (4 to 6 percent leached),
exterior weathering (2 to 8 percent) or exterior soil burial
(1 to 6 percent.)"
-- Cooper and Ung, _Forest Products Journal_, Sept. 1992

...

* "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
Norwegian requirements."
-- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
Preservation, 1987

* "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
leached from piers and bulkheads."
-- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
1991

...

Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
much._

...

   Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
_1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
arsenic."

   When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)

   New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
water.)

   ...

   We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
list if you want to look them up yourself.

   ...

   So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.

   Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
"wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
cloth afterwards.

----------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Matt Heffron                      heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
Beckman Instruments, Inc.         voice: (714) 961-3128
2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100
I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so.


Article 25673 of rec.gardens:
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From: segura@owlnet.rice.edu (Chad James Segura)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Sender: news@rice.edu (News)
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References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Lines: 103

In article <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>, heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) writes:


A lot deleted.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> * "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
|> leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
|> wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
|> roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
|> Norwegian requirements."
|> -- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
|> Preservation, 1987

I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

|> 
|> * "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
|> 2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
|> enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
|> leached from piers and bulkheads."
|> -- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
|> 1991

Enough to kill a mouse, but in what concentration. Pure?
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
|> that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
|> wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
|> much._

They do?  Of course, there is some leaching, but it is the
amount that matters and not that it does.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|>    Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
|> Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
|> been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
|> plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
|> _1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
|> about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
|> toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
|> organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
|> arsenic."
|> 
|>    When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
|> is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
|> they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
|> that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
|> definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
|> eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
|> accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)
|> 
|>    New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
|> drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
|> the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
|> currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
|> drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
|> in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
|> that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
|> water.)

That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
I do not eat soil.

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
|> government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
|> the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
|> us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
|> list if you want to look them up yourself.

And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
didn't match your conclusions?

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
|> treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
|> their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
|> wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
|> equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.
|> 
|>    Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
|> detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
|> American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
|> Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
|> of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
|> "wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
|> of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
|> cloth afterwards.


Chad


Article 25699 of rec.gardens:
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From: ajh@diamond.idbsu.edu (Andrew Huang)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
In-Reply-To: segura@owlnet.rice.edu's message of Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Message-ID: <AJH.94Jan23131419@diamond.idbsu.edu>
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	<2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com> <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Date: 23 Jan 94 13:14:19
Lines: 21

Chad James Segura) writes:
   I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

In Bermuda, you have no choice.  Building codes _require_ the
inclusion of cisterns that collect rain water from the roofs for
domestic use.

   That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
   I do not eat soil.

Yes, but your children and their friend do.  And if you garden, you
will get it on your skin, which turns out to be a good way to absorb
As.

   And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
   didn't match your conclusions?

Don't needle the poster - the posting was clearly marked as an excerpt
from Organic Gardening.

-andy



Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Subject: Pressure treated lumber repost
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:24:17 GMT
Lines: 151

This is a repost of an article I read a while ago on this subject that
seemed so well documented that it was hard to ignore.  I got tweaked
into reposting it after reading someone getting flamed about using
good 'ol CCA40 by a bozo that seemed to not take much of anything
seriously.

Hope it helps whoever requested it.

griff@cdac.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was posted in misc.consumers.house a while ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: bellas@ttidca.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.med,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hazards of arsenic in pressure-treated wood used in play equipment
Date: 9 Aug 90 17:58:28 GMT
Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica

In article <76@towernet.UUCP> mcg@rigel.uucp (22630-M C Germain(1772)L999) writes:
>
>
>A group of us are building a playground set and the use of pressure-treated
>wood had been suggested. I recall a that demonstrated health hazard existed do
>to the arsenic and chromium compounds used, both from physical contact of wood 
>surfaces and from subsequent leaching of arsenic and chromium-containing  into 
>the immediate soil. My concern is that small children, playing on the 
>playground set, would most certainly come into contact with these compounds, 
>may put fingers into their mouths, or have snacks without washing up prior to 
>eating. 
>
>I'm looking for papers and, or other info in the scientific literature which
>discusses this issue. I'm proposing to use untreated wood, but to finish it
>with a high quality wood preservitive, such as Thompsons. I'd like to present
>my case from a position of substantive knowledge.


  The most common preservatives are creosote, pentachlorophenol and
inorganic arsenic salts.  The first two are sold as paints for home 
application, while the third is used primarily in commercial "pressure
treated" wood.
  The terms pressure treated and preserved seem innocuous enough, but
the chemicals involved are potent pesticides formulated to repel termites,
bacteria and fungi for decades.  Although homeowners want their playsets to
last, the thought of children playing on poisoned wood is repugnant.  It is 
not surprising, then, that as wood gained popularity as a play structure
materiel, preservatives came under close scrutiny.  The chemicals are
practical and convenient, but are they safe?
  Ultimately all preservatives pose some risk, although the health hazard
varies from potentially serious to negligible.  Creosote, the smelly black
goo that is smeared on railroad ties and telephone poles is the oldest
industrial wood preservative and has been in use for almost 150 years.
In laboratory animals it causes skin irritation, cancer and genetic damage;
in humans, it has been linked to skin cancer and causes eye and skin 
irritations, dermatitis and burns.  It remains potent for years, moving
easily through the wood to affect the soil - and the skin and lungs of
anyone who touches it or breathes its vapors.
  Pentachlorophenol (PCP) is a cleaner alternative to creosote, but is
equally suspect from a health standpoint.  A member of the same chemical 
family as 2,4,5-T, it contains dioxins and has caused cancer and birth
defects in laboratory animals as well as short term effects such as
skin, eye, nose and throat irritations.  It is easily inhaled and absorbed
through the skin and continues to give off toxic vapors for as long as seven
years.  The EPA controls the use of both PCP and creosote and recommends
sealing any wood that has been contaminated by these preservatives with two
coats of urethane, shellac or latex epoxy enamel (shellac is inappropriate
for play structures for it is slippery when wet).
  The pressure treated wood sold in lumber yards is preserved with inorganic
arsenic compounds, either chromated copper arsenic (CCA) or ammoniacal
copper arsenate (ACA).  CCA was developed by Karl Hienrick Wolman in 1913
(hence the term Wolmanized) and has been used for 50 years as an inexpensive
alternate to creosote.  Associated with rats and lace trimmed old ladies
diabolically doing in unsuspecting boarders, "arsenic" strikes a note of
uneasiness in most people, but it is a common element in the environment.
The form of arsenic used in treated wood is the pentavalent state - the
same that is found in shrimp, mushrooms, rice and sardines.  In laboratory 
animals, inorganic arsenic compounds can cause cancer, birth defects and
genetic mutations, as well as headaches, dizziness and muscle spasms.  But,
unlike PCP and creosote, the arsenic preservatives bind tightly to the wood
fibers.  Studies show that the chemicals do not migrate to the surrounding
soil and plant tissue and are not absorbed through human skin.  The EPA
concluded that pressure treated wood is "safe for frequent contact because
absorption through the skin is negligible."
  The preservative sometimes leaves a bloom of chemical residue on the lumber,
and while children cannot absorb the arsenic by directly touching it, their
fingers often end up in their mouths.  To assess this danger, the California
State Department of Health conducted a study in which researchers repeatedly
licked their hands after rubbing them over treated wood surfaces.  After 
several days of testing, their urine showed no increase of arsenic even
though the measuring device was sensitive enough to detect the effects of
a single sardine.  The authors of `Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' concluded that kids have as much chance
of getting skin cancer from the CCA-treated play equipment as they do from
playing in the sun.
  CCA is probably more of a health risk to parents than to their children
since minute amounts of preservative laced sawdust may be inhaled or 
swallowed during construction.  Wear a dust mask when sawing or machining
arsenic-preserved wood, and do the work outdoors to avoid contaminating
indoor air with preservative dust.  Because incineration of treated wood
releases arsine, an extremely poisonous gas, wood scraps should never be
burned; bury them or take them to an approved dump site.
  Pressure treating the wood does not inject preservatives right to the core
of the lumber; thus, drilled or cut surfaces have to be brushed with at
least two coats of liquid preservative.  Wear rubber gloves during these 
applications, avoid dripping the chemical on plants, and wash hands 
thoroughly after any skin contact to remove any residue.  After the 
structure is built, hose it down with soap and water to remove any surface 
deposits of chemicals.
  Though these three account for the bulk of preservatives sold there are
alternatives: low toxicity preservatives such as copper and zinc napthanate,
copper-8-quinolinolate, polybase, bis[tributyltin]oxide (TBTO), and 
TBTO/polybase.  These are not known carcinogens, are not herbicidal or 
poisonous in the concentrations used for preserving wood and are relatively
stable.  All effectively prevent damage from mold, mildew and rot by keeping 
the wood dry enough to discharge fungi and bacteria.  Copper napthanate, the
active ingredient in Cuprinol, has been on the market the longest (1948).
Often used to treat lumber for greenhouse growing beds, copper napthanate
is the only one of the above chemicals rated to withstand constant ground
contact.  Because it can be difficult to paint over and must be reapplied
if the wood cracks, it is better to use copper napthanate below ground, and
use zinc napthanate or one of the other water-repellant finishes above ground.
These chemicals are not, however, sufficient to protect wood against termites.
Termites feast on copper napthanate as readily as they do cedar, leaving CCA
treated wood as the only alternative for areas with termite problems.

I hope this has helped.

			-Pete-

References:
California State Department of Health - "Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
	Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment'
Canadian Institute of Child Health - "Moving and Growing"
Home Playgrounds - Merilyn Mohr - Camden House

Disclaimer:These are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect 
           the opinions of Citicorp or it's management.
*Batteries not included, void where prohibited, discontinue reading if a
 rash develops.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- 
* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas  or  bellas@ttidca.tti.com      *
-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                "Never trust a man who doesn't play golf."                 |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........................griff@ole.cdac.com................................



 


>From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:58 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:32:11 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber.warning.new

Article 14611 of rec.gardens:
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From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: raised beds
Message-ID: <1878.104.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us>
Date: 16 Mar 93 16:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Lines: 38

To: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer)
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us
Date: 15 Mar 93 12:38:40

DO>rd Lauria) writes:
DO>        >I am planning to build some raised beds for my garden.  It seems
DO>        >smart to use pressure treated wood to protect from rot, but it seem
DO>        >I remember seeing something awhile back that this was bad because
DO>        >the chemicals could leach into the soil and then into the plants.
DO>        >
DO>        >Is this true?  What have others done?  Not use PT wood?  Line the
DO>        >bed with plastic?

Pressure treated lumber, or Cromated Copper Arsenate, CCA contains over
3000 PPM arsenic and over 1000 PPM lead. The EPA sludge rules set the
acceptable limit for arsenic at 11 PPM and lead at 250. While it is
generally true that arsenic does not leach out of properly treated wood,
the sawdust is rarely vacuumed and disposed and it can run off into
surface water and permanently contaminate the soil. Improperly treated
wood can contain live aresenic crystals and the brochure that is
SUPPOSED to be handed out every time any CCA treated wood is sold warns
about contacting the wood with skin, as arsenic is a severe carcinogen,
notably for skin cancer. The info can be acquired from the Treated Wood
Assn at 800-241-0240. The scraps should NEVER be burned as both fumes
and ash are highly toxic. Currently, there is NO acceptable disposal
option for treated lumber, and the product does eventually decompose,
leaving its metals in the soil.

Jim the Compost Man~~~~~
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS...
 . QNet3. . * <W-NET> * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST
                                                                              
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>From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:07:21 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:36:32 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: pt-lumber.newinfo

Article 233 of triangle.gardens:
Newsgroups: triangle.gardens
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!math.ncsu.edu!crsc
From: crsc@math.ncsu.edu (CRSC Account)
Subject: Re: Cold Frame Materials Question
Message-ID: <1993Dec14.142015.25464@ncsu.edu>
Summary: Don't use treated wood!
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:20:15 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com> sasbaa@fang.unx.sas.com (Anne Albright) writes:
>
>        Does anybody know what the considerations are for choosing a 
>type of wood to use for a cold frame (that will be used for vegetables)?
>
>        I am interested in what preservatives can be used on the
>wood, if any, that won't cause a problem leaching into the soil or with
>fumes being absorbed by the plants. Is treated wood ok? Is it ok to
>use varnish? What can I put on untreated wood that would be ok? 
>
>        Thanks a lot.

Check out the latest copy of Organic Gardening for the most thorough discussion
I've yet seen regarding the use of pressure-treated wood for gardening. 
Although they didn't discuss alternatives in this article, (I think they did
in an article earlier in the year) I won't be using treated wood in any 
projects in my garden unless they will be completely sealed - painted or 
waterproofed.  They cite research that shows that contact with acidic
organics like compost, speeds the leaching of the chemicals into the soil.
One of the chemicals involved is arsenic; it can be absorbed by plants
and is particularly concentrated in the roots. I don't know if varnish is
ok for plants, but it probably would be a good way to seal the wood and
prevent chemical leaching. For other possible wood to use, you might consider
cedar (I think it has similar properties to redwood, which is about the
only wood used in outdoor projects in CA).

-- Lisa Becker




 

Article 29587 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for a
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.654.2817.0N429249@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 90


Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


D>"I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo;" -- Elrond

Great tagline Doug,

Here is my FAQ on Arsenic Lumber, and in another post, the product
safety sheet that is *supposed* to be handed out to every purchaser of
the product which was a part of the EPA agreement to allow the product
to be sold.

Additional information on CCA, Chromated Copper Arsenate.

The wood has been tested by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency,
Hazardous Waste section to be over 3000 parts per million arsenic. The
EPA limit on arsenic in sewage sludge for unrestricted use is 11 PPM.
There is at least one case of 24 cows dying from eating ash from CCA
wood ash in MN and several cases in other states. There is another case
of arsenic poisoning in a Wisconsin family from a backdraft in their
fireplace while burning treated wood.

Arsenic is associated with hair loss, diarrhea, asthma, skin cancer and
other skin disorders. Particular caution should be exercised if the wood
has a white, gritty residue on the surface, as these may be arsenic
crystals. Penetrating oil stain may slow down weathering of fibers and
reduce arsenic surface residues. The exposed ends of boards are more
likely to leach arsenic than the rest of the board. The wood should be
resealed every two years.

Of particular concern is sawdust left at construction sites that can he
ingested by children, pets, or become exposed to the skin. Runoff of
sawdust into ponds, pools, wells and gardens is another concern. Arsenic
is rated by the EPA as a class A carcinogen, the top level of risk.
Children "mouthing" the wood are also at risk, especially the board ends
that release twelve times the arsenic of the rest of the wood. This is
especially a concern as arsenic treated wood is a common component in
playground equipment. Tests for arsenic beneath children's play
equipment have run as high as hundreds of times above background levels.

Treated wood is also a problem in disposal. While such a broad range
biocide such as CCA retards decay, it does not stop it. Estimates of rot
resistance of 20 to 50 years are common. The wood will *eventually*
decay, and with the sawdust and ends from construction, will have to go
somewhere. The treated wood industries have lobbied to have CCA treated
wood exempted from hazardous waste designation through a de-listing
procedure that is still unclear. The product is currently allowed to be
sent to conventional and demolition landfills.

It is often burned with other wood wastes and is commonly chipped into
landscape mulch or compressed into toxic fuel pellets. It releases toxic
fumes and ash in house fires, putting neighbors and firefighters at
extra risk. The ash from a burned CCA patio deck is not managed as the
hazardous material it is.

The argument from the treated wood industry has been that the arsenic
does not leach from the wood fiber under normal soil conditions. While
this is somewhat true, it is misleading. The wood will _eventually_
decay and leach its metals and there is currently no safe disposal. The
practice of burning wood scraps and the mismanagement of the wood both
residentially and commercially has resulted in airborne arsenic levels
increasing nationwide, especially in the major cities where scavengers
burn scrap wood for heat.

Most uses of the wood such as decks, fences, and stakes are not
necessary for such extreme wood treatment. Only in the Southeast is the
potential of climate high in promoting decay. There is no need for
treated wood at all in the west, except on the northwest coast. Because
of these concerns, but primarily due to the threats of the wood to
commercial organic wood recycling, I am recommending that the product
only be sold or used by licensed and trained professionals, similar to
other hazardous pesticides, and that it be banned from non-hazardous
land disposal sites.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
 * April 9th - A bird in the hand craps on the wrist.


From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Fri Apr 15 23:12:30 EDT 1994
Article: 29587 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for a [Pressure Treated Lumber faq1 - gen. info]
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.654.2817.0N429249@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 90


Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


D>"I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo;" -- Elrond

Great tagline Doug,

Here is my FAQ on Arsenic Lumber, and in another post, the product
safety sheet that is *supposed* to be handed out to every purchaser of
the product which was a part of the EPA agreement to allow the product
to be sold.

Additional information on CCA, Chromated Copper Arsenate.

The wood has been tested by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency,
Hazardous Waste section to be over 3000 parts per million arsenic. The
EPA limit on arsenic in sewage sludge for unrestricted use is 11 PPM.
There is at least one case of 24 cows dying from eating ash from CCA
wood ash in MN and several cases in other states. There is another case
of arsenic poisoning in a Wisconsin family from a backdraft in their
fireplace while burning treated wood.

Arsenic is associated with hair loss, diarrhea, asthma, skin cancer and
other skin disorders. Particular caution should be exercised if the wood
has a white, gritty residue on the surface, as these may be arsenic
crystals. Penetrating oil stain may slow down weathering of fibers and
reduce arsenic surface residues. The exposed ends of boards are more
likely to leach arsenic than the rest of the board. The wood should be
resealed every two years.

Of particular concern is sawdust left at construction sites that can he
ingested by children, pets, or become exposed to the skin. Runoff of
sawdust into ponds, pools, wells and gardens is another concern. Arsenic
is rated by the EPA as a class A carcinogen, the top level of risk.
Children "mouthing" the wood are also at risk, especially the board ends
that release twelve times the arsenic of the rest of the wood. This is
especially a concern as arsenic treated wood is a common component in
playground equipment. Tests for arsenic beneath children's play
equipment have run as high as hundreds of times above background levels.

Treated wood is also a problem in disposal. While such a broad range
biocide such as CCA retards decay, it does not stop it. Estimates of rot
resistance of 20 to 50 years are common. The wood will *eventually*
decay, and with the sawdust and ends from construction, will have to go
somewhere. The treated wood industries have lobbied to have CCA treated
wood exempted from hazardous waste designation through a de-listing
procedure that is still unclear. The product is currently allowed to be
sent to conventional and demolition landfills.

It is often burned with other wood wastes and is commonly chipped into
landscape mulch or compressed into toxic fuel pellets. It releases toxic
fumes and ash in house fires, putting neighbors and firefighters at
extra risk. The ash from a burned CCA patio deck is not managed as the
hazardous material it is.

The argument from the treated wood industry has been that the arsenic
does not leach from the wood fiber under normal soil conditions. While
this is somewhat true, it is misleading. The wood will _eventually_
decay and leach its metals and there is currently no safe disposal. The
practice of burning wood scraps and the mismanagement of the wood both
residentially and commercially has resulted in airborne arsenic levels
increasing nationwide, especially in the major cities where scavengers
burn scrap wood for heat.

Most uses of the wood such as decks, fences, and stakes are not
necessary for such extreme wood treatment. Only in the Southeast is the
potential of climate high in promoting decay. There is no need for
treated wood at all in the west, except on the northwest coast. Because
of these concerns, but primarily due to the threats of the wood to
commercial organic wood recycling, I am recommending that the product
only be sold or used by licensed and trained professionals, similar to
other hazardous pesticides, and that it be banned from non-hazardous
land disposal sites.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * April 9th - A bird in the hand craps on the wrist.


From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly Fri Apr 15 23:13:54 EDT 1994
Article: 29588 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for [PT Lumber faq2-Consumer Information Sheet] 
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.655.2817.0N42924A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 63

Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


Here is the Consumer Information Sheet about pressure treated
wood that I received from the American Wood Preserver's
Association, PO Box 5283, Springfield, VA 22150 that is SUPPOSED
to be provided to every purchaser of CCA, ACA, and ACZA treated
wood. This is exactly as it appears without editing.

"This wood has been preserved by pressure treatment with an EPA
registered pesticide containing inorganic arsenic to protect it from
insect attack and decay. Wood treated with inorganic arsenic should be
used only where such protection is important. Inorganic arsenic
penetrates deeply and remains in the pressure treated wood for a long
time. Exposure to inorganic arsenic may present certain hazards.
Therefore, the following precautions should be taken when handling the
treated wood and in determining where to use or dispose of the treated
wood.

USE SITE PRECAUTIONS Wood pressure treated with waterborne
arsenical preservatives may be used inside residences as long as all
sawdust and construction debris are cleaned up and disposed after
construction. Do not use treated wood under circumstances where the
preservative may become a component of food or animal feed. Examples for
such sites would be structures or containers for storing silage or food.
Do not use treated wood for cutting boards or counter tops. Only treated
wood that is visibly clean and free of surface residue should be used
for patios, decks, and walkways. Do not use treated wood for
construction of beehives that may come in contact with honey. Treated
wood should not be used where it may come into direct or indirect
contact with public drinking water, except for uses involving incidental
contact such as docks and bridges.

HANDLING PRECAUTIONS
Dispose of treated wood by ordinary trash collection or burial. Treated
wood should not be burned in open fires or in stoves, fireplaces, or
residential boilers because toxic chemicals may be produced as a part of
the smoke and ashes. Treated wood from commercial or industrial use (e.g
construction sites) may be burned only in commercial or industrial
incinerators or boilers in accordance with state and federal
regulations. Avoid frequent or prolonged inhalation of sawdust from
treated wood. When sawing and machining treated wood, wear a dust mask.
Whenever possible, these operations should be performed outdoors to
avoid indoor accumulations of airborne sawdust from treated wood. When
power sawing and machining, wear goggles to protect eyes from flying
particles. After working with the wood, and before eating, drinking, and
use of tobacco products, wash exposed areas thoroughly.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * April 9th - Galactic Wanderer



From london@calypso-2 Fri Apr 15 23:43:44 1994
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 23:40:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry London <london@calypso-2>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Article 25759 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber [PT Lumber faq3 - more general information]
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL


Article 25760 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: arsenic soil contaminatio
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4197.2552.0N41F04B@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 31

This message was originally addressed to Catherine Albert
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------

CA>Jim,
  >Hi, my name is Catherine.  I live in Colorado Springs, CO in a rental home a

CA>am curious about HOW TO TEST some LUMBER used for a retaining wall in the
  >backyard.  My concern is that this wood is also a defining edge of my
  >vegetable
  >garden.  Is there somewhere I could send a chunk of this wood to have it
  >analyzed?  I have no idea if it was treated lumber or not; I suspect it was.

CA>Thank you for the information...

Hi Catherine,

Try the local Agricultural extension office, the university, an
agricultural testing laboratory, or a private laboratory.  Have them
test for soil mineral content, making sure that there is a test for
copper in the bunch.  Arsenic testing is expensive.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 25th - Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Took the Dog. Dorothy.

cc: all


Article 25586 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:27:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 38

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Ray Foster to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber


RF>OK, a question from someone to whom this is all new: how can you tell if lum
  >has been treated with CCA?

RF>We bought a house this past summer. The previous owner had built some raised
  >gardens beds using wood. How can I tell whether this is pressure treated woo


Ray, you bring up the chief reason why I believe that arsenic amended
wood should be installed only by licensed pesticide professionals and
that its installation should be clearly identified in the deed of the
property, with full chain of custody like hazardous materials in the
commercial arena.

Aside from the distinctive green or brown tint, there really is no way
to tell.  You may try notching or scratching the wood and see if it is
still stained, since the arsenic, lead, copper, and chromium penetrate
to the core of the wood.

This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

Testing for copper is much cheaper than arsenic, if you care to have the
wood analyzed.



Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - COMPOSTING: Because a rind is a terrible thing to waste.


Article 25634 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew
From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Date: 21 Jan 1994 18:10:02 GMT
Organization: Sun
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mk06jqINNkjc@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous

jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
>be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
>"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

I think you'll have better luck getting its presence recorded on
the deed.  DIY handymen (and probably some professionals) would
try to remove the warning from visible surfaces with a plane, and
then you have toxic wood shavings in addition to the toxic
sawdust and wood scraps.

BTW, thanks for pointing out that the big problem isn't whether
or not the toxins leach into the garden soil, but what becomes of
the treated wood after its useful life.

Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM     The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth?
                             Who makes him deaf or dumb?  Who gives him sight
Soli Deo Gloria!             or makes him blind?  Is it not I, the LORD?"


Article 25575 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!daneel!seldon!nathan
From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Number 6)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Message-ID: <1994Jan19.003211.22232@daneel.foundation.tricon.com>
Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc., Lompoc, CA
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 00:32:10 GMT
Lines: 32

I think the *best* way to get people to realize the dangers of
pressure treated lumber is the one suggested by "Mr. Compost" (sorry,
I'm in my "primitive" news reader now...so I can't get the real name).
Here in California and probably just about everywhere else, you have
to sign your life away on lead paint.  It is a requirement for most
types of loans (mostly Federal Gov't backed ones).  We had to sign so
many disclosures to buy this house it was incredible  but I was glad
that they TOLD us what we were getting into (possibly).  [We don't
have lead paint, btw].  So, a first step is getting the state or the
federal government to look at the research and then draft up a
disclosure statement that must be signed by all homeowners when
applying for the loan.  This does NOT mean that people will actually
read it, unfortunately.  But, if they sign it, and then try to sue
somebody, it'll fly back into their face for not reading it.

Also, I think all landfills that are unlined should just stop taking
the stuff.  We get all our water from the ground and I shudder to
think what the local toxic waste dump cleanup that's in progress is
finding out!  (Not to mention what Unocal Oil is dumping into our
water).

btw  does anyone know how to tell pressure treated lumber? I may have
some of that in my garden  hope not.  I don't think it is because
it's falling apart and rotting and is not all that old.  ("Railroad"
ties as an edging material).



***********************************************************************
Nathan D. Lane, VP Triicon Systems. Lompoc, CA  (805) 7331849 
NaN != 6, 6 == 1.  I am not a number, I am a free list!
I'm a programmer  my computers are more valuable than my cars.


Article 25595 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4061.2552.0N41EEDF@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 22:50:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 153

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim

P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.  As to whether or not
arsenic is harmful, you *must* be kidding.

My problem with treated wood is its uncontrolled use, its misuse, and
its ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation
where it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not
in contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised, but people use arsenic wood
because they are too lazy to seal pine.  Arsenic wood should be sealed
anyway, but too few do it.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.
Sawdust run off has been linked to deaths of exotic fish in back yard
ponds.  Sudden kills of Koi after installing a deck or other arsenic
landscape project are being increasingly reported.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome or exposed to arsenic requiring medical attention from arsenic
fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and outdoor fires.  I have
copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects of arsenic poisoning
and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, which even
in small quantities can cause skin cancer.  The doubling of the rate
of skin cancer (albeit coincidentally) parallels the time period when
arsenic wood was introduced to the environment.  The pathways of
exposure can come from working with the wood without gloves or
protective clothing or getting the dust on the body. It can also come
from walking on treated wood with bare feet or mouthing the wood,
especially cut ends and nicks. Ash contact with the skin, even from a
fire miles away can cause skin cancer.

Children playing in the dirt where arsenic sawdust was left years
previously can be a means of arsenic exposure.  The arsenic levels under
treated wood play equipment have been tested at 200 times background
levels.  The documentation on the use of treated wood tell users to wear
protective clothing, shower after working, vacuum the sawdust, refrain
from smoking and eating, and to send the scraps to the landfill.  How
often are buyers give the instructions for safe use?  How many follow
the recommended practices? Hardly any, which is why I call it a product
out of control.

P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.  The treated wood industry has repeatedly
engaged me on other Bulletin Boards in arguing the issue of
leachability, of which I concede their points.  Frankly I am surprised
they are not here on rec.gardens with their party line of "no leach in
soul equals safe" argument.  My argument is not leachability and uptake
by plants, it is the issue of the widespread abuse of the product that I
am concerned about.

P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust, waste, and ash.   The rate of
decomposition of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been
on the market for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the
past fifteen. The wood has yet to rot to the point of being a leaching
problem...... yet.  No one denies that it is a matter of time when it is
a leaching problem.  Then we will have arsenic on root vegetables,
children eating arsenic contaminated soil, children playing in arsenic
rotted wood, airborne arsenic dust, arsenic silt run off and so forth.
It will be a major problem around the year 2025.  A sad legacy because
people won't take the effort to seal pine when building decks, in my
opinion.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site. I say to stop its uncontrolled sale and reserve its
use for applications that are demonstrated to require a biocide treated
wood.  Then to track its location and ultimate disposal, just like any
other biohazard is managed in commercial use.  The household exemption
for hazardous waste can no longer be swept under the rug.  What goes
into the environment has to be accounted for.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - It is not logical, but it is often true.


Article 25581 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news
From: os2user@brdiller.houston.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <CJwHpI.3tz2@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:39:18 GMT
Lines: 95
Reply-To: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
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X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v0.20 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers

In <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>, pauls@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Richard J. Pauls) writes:
>In article <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>
>>...
>>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
>>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
>>ensure safe ultimate disposal.
>>
>>How about it, rec.garden members?
>>
>>Mr Compost~~~
>>
>>Jim McNelly~~~
>
>Jim
>
>I am very concerned about arsenic poisoning, and I plan to remove the treated
>wood from around my gardens this spring just to be safe.  That is, just
>IN CASE it actually is harmful.  I can due without the wood, so why take
>any chance is my position.

I think that this pretty well summarized my opinion on this matter until I
read Jim McNelly's post, which you've partially quoted above.

>
>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
>harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
>So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.

I think you're missing what I considered to be Mr. McNelly's main point:

    "Properly processed treated wood does not leach arsenic under
     normal conditions. How we, the public and the environmental
     community, focused on this one narrow issue and missed the
     rest of the story, the story about the sawdust, the scraps, the
     ash, and the ultimate disposal is shameful."

Now, we can all argue here about how much arsenic actually leaches
into our garden soil from CCA lumber under different conditions, and
we can talk about what PPM of arsenic in our garden soil might be an
intolerable amount, and so forth - and those would probably be some
very useful discussions - but the larger issue is what is to become of
all our CCA lumber when we're finished with it.

Is CCA lumber going to be the 'asbestos' of the 1990's or 2000's?

>Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
>lumber?  The warning label that comes on the wood is not conclusive.
>In reading this group, there seem to be more posts
>saying the wood is ok than there are saying it is harmful.  Without
>conclusive evidence from multiple sources I do not believe we or any
>other group will have a chance of removing this poison from common
>houshold use in decks and gardens.  I heard about the article in  Organic
>Gardening, but have not yet read it.  I also heard that it was not
>quantitative.  I want more than just scare tactics from the environmentally
>extreme.  I want the facts.  Is this wood dangerous or not?  Until the
>facts are revealed, I will not be using treated lumber just in case.
>If there is so much concern about this stuff why arn't there more tests?
>I want answers like this:
>
>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
>of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
>soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the vegetables.
>Then publish results:
>

 <deletions>

>
>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
>harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

And if the levels of leached arsenic proved acceptable to you, will you
then go out and buy a couple of tons of CCA lumber and place it in your
backyard?

Are you prepared to handle the lumber properly during construction? What
are you going to do with the sawdust and scraps - send them to your
local landfill? Burn them? And what will you do in 20 years when the
lumber has turned to mush, or in 5 years when you decide to remodel or
re-landscape?

Please re-read Jim McNelly's note. Arsenic 'leaching' is not CCA
lumber's biggest liability.

>
>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?
>
>
>
>Rich

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry R. Diller                              IBM Federal Sector Sevices Company
EMail address: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com         Houston, Texas USA



Article 25621 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4079.2552.0N41EF4E@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 00:02:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 119

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim


P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.

My problem with treated wood is is uncontrolled use, its misuse, and its
ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation where
it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not in
contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome from arsenic fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and
outdoor fires.  I have copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects
of arsenic poisoning and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage
come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, even in
small quantities which the main symptom is skin cancer.  This is caused
from working with the wood without gloves or protective clothing and
getting the dust on the body.  It can also come from walking on treated
wood with bare feet.  Ash contact with the skin, even from a fire miles
away can cause skin cancer.


P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.


P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust and ash.   The rate of decomposition
of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been on the market
for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the past fifteen.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination


Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - Another conundrum to ponder


Article 25573 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!biivax.dp.beckman.com!falstaff.css.beckman.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron)
Date: 19 Jan 1994 11:32:20 -0800
Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp>
Distribution: world
Organization: Scientific Services, Beckman Instruments, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaff.css.beckman.com
Lines: 185

In <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> Bob Klebba
  <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu> writes:

>In article <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> Schooder,
>bene@u.washington.edu writes:
>>I read an article in Organic Gardening...a couple months ago,
>>can't find the issue right now...that said more nasties DO leach
>>out of PT wood than the industry would like you to know.

The "more than the industry would like you to know" phrase was Schooder's,
it's not in the article.

>How much is more than we would like to know?  Is it 1 ppb, 5 ppb or is it
>a ppm?

It looks like the numbers are in the low ppm to very high ppb range. 
(They aren't directly stated but can be inferred from other numbers in
the article.)

>        I don't want to defend the wood products industry, but in my
>experience, OG isn't known for their absolute quantitative accuracy.  How
>much can leach out before we need to be concerned vis a vis all the other
>pollutants we expose ourselves to everyday?

I've typed in some excerpts (about half) of the Organic Gardening
article, attached below.  I'm glad I haven't built my raised beds yet.

Matt Heffron

----------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from the Organic Gardening article:
"TREATED WOOD:  Yes, it's still toxic!"
by Cheryl Long and Mike McGrath
(Jan 94, pp 71-74)

Recently, a Texas count extension agent pronounced
pressure-treated wood safe to use in raised bed gardens. 
Newspapers, industry magazines such as _Nursery News_, and
even another major American gardenign magazine all reported
this finding not only as truth, but as the final word on
the subject.

   ...Many readers have written to ask if we have changed
our opinion on treated wood and/or to comment on this new
report from Texas.

   No, we haven't changed our opinion and that Texas report
was not a true scientific study.  It was a half thought-out
experiment conducted by a local extension agent and an
extension vegetable specialist after gardeners in their
region became concerned following our reports about the
dangers of using "pressure-treated" wood (which is actually
made with two heavy metals and arsenic, not "pressure" as
the companies that produce this stuff would like you to
think).

   Anyway, these two guys took 15 soil samples from raised
bed gardens framed with CCA (chromated copper arsenic)
treated wood and had them tested.  Despite the fact that
two different labs found measurable amounts of arsenic in
every instance, these two rocket scientists still concluded
that the tests had somehow "confirmed that arsenic was not
leaching from the timbers."

   ...In a _real_ study, the arsenic levels found in the
treated-wood soil would have been compared to the amount
(if any) of arsenic found in similar soil that wasn't
surrounded by treated wood.  All they _can_ say for sure
from their limited testing is that there was definately
arsenic in every soil sample taken near treated wood.  How
they determined that the arsenic did not come from the
treated wood is beyond us.
   ...

   We, on the other hand, have continued our research on
"pressure-treated" wood and are even _more_ convinced than
ever that this stuff should not be used in organic gardens.
Here are excerpts from some of the additional scientific
studies we've reviewed recently:  

* "This study suggests that leaching of metals from treated
wood in acidic waters (natural or resulting from acidic
precipitation) _[Editor's Note: acid rain]_ may present an
unacceptable environmental risk...Leaching of metals from
weathered wood found to be very similar to that from new
wood...Results from this study suggest that organic acids
may cause greater leaching from CCA-treated wood than
mineral acids...Organic acids are present in...soils, bogs
and wetland areas."
-- Warner and Solomon, _Environmental Toxicology and
Chemistry_, 1990

* "It has been shown that organic acids may cause
significant leaching of all components of CCA...CCA-treated
jack pine blocks exposed to vegetable compost had greater
leaching losses (12 to 13 percent CCA leached) than matched
samples in distilled water (4 to 6 percent leached),
exterior weathering (2 to 8 percent) or exterior soil burial
(1 to 6 percent.)"
-- Cooper and Ung, _Forest Products Journal_, Sept. 1992

...

* "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
Norwegian requirements."
-- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
Preservation, 1987

* "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
leached from piers and bulkheads."
-- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
1991

...

Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
much._

...

   Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
_1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
arsenic."

   When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)

   New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
water.)

   ...

   We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
list if you want to look them up yourself.

   ...

   So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.

   Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
"wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
cloth afterwards.

----------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Matt Heffron                      heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
Beckman Instruments, Inc.         voice: (714) 961-3128
2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100
I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so.


Article 25673 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!owlnet.rice.edu!segura
From: segura@owlnet.rice.edu (Chad James Segura)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Sender: news@rice.edu (News)
Organization: Rice University
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Lines: 103

In article <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>, heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) writes:


A lot deleted.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> * "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
|> leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
|> wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
|> roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
|> Norwegian requirements."
|> -- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
|> Preservation, 1987

I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

|> 
|> * "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
|> 2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
|> enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
|> leached from piers and bulkheads."
|> -- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
|> 1991

Enough to kill a mouse, but in what concentration. Pure?
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
|> that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
|> wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
|> much._

They do?  Of course, there is some leaching, but it is the
amount that matters and not that it does.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|>    Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
|> Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
|> been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
|> plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
|> _1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
|> about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
|> toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
|> organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
|> arsenic."
|> 
|>    When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
|> is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
|> they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
|> that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
|> definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
|> eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
|> accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)
|> 
|>    New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
|> drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
|> the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
|> currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
|> drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
|> in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
|> that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
|> water.)

That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
I do not eat soil.

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
|> government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
|> the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
|> us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
|> list if you want to look them up yourself.

And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
didn't match your conclusions?

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
|> treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
|> their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
|> wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
|> equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.
|> 
|>    Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
|> detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
|> American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
|> Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
|> of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
|> "wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
|> of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
|> cloth afterwards.


Chad


Article 25699 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.byu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!mica.inel.gov!guinness!guinness!ajh
From: ajh@diamond.idbsu.edu (Andrew Huang)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
In-Reply-To: segura@owlnet.rice.edu's message of Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Message-ID: <AJH.94Jan23131419@diamond.idbsu.edu>
Sender: usenet@guinness.idbsu.edu (Usenet News mail)
Nntp-Posting-Host: diamond
Organization: Boise State Mathematics Department
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp>
	<2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com> <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Date: 23 Jan 94 13:14:19
Lines: 21

Chad James Segura) writes:
   I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

In Bermuda, you have no choice.  Building codes _require_ the
inclusion of cisterns that collect rain water from the roofs for
domestic use.

   That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
   I do not eat soil.

Yes, but your children and their friend do.  And if you garden, you
will get it on your skin, which turns out to be a good way to absorb
As.

   And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
   didn't match your conclusions?

Don't needle the poster - the posting was clearly marked as an excerpt
from Organic Gardening.

-andy



Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Subject: Pressure treated lumber repost
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:24:17 GMT
Lines: 151

This is a repost of an article I read a while ago on this subject that
seemed so well documented that it was hard to ignore.  I got tweaked
into reposting it after reading someone getting flamed about using
good 'ol CCA40 by a bozo that seemed to not take much of anything
seriously.

Hope it helps whoever requested it.

griff@cdac.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was posted in misc.consumers.house a while ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: bellas@ttidca.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.med,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hazards of arsenic in pressure-treated wood used in play equipment
Date: 9 Aug 90 17:58:28 GMT
Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica

In article <76@towernet.UUCP> mcg@rigel.uucp (22630-M C Germain(1772)L999) writes:
>
>
>A group of us are building a playground set and the use of pressure-treated
>wood had been suggested. I recall a that demonstrated health hazard existed do
>to the arsenic and chromium compounds used, both from physical contact of wood 
>surfaces and from subsequent leaching of arsenic and chromium-containing  into 
>the immediate soil. My concern is that small children, playing on the 
>playground set, would most certainly come into contact with these compounds, 
>may put fingers into their mouths, or have snacks without washing up prior to 
>eating. 
>
>I'm looking for papers and, or other info in the scientific literature which
>discusses this issue. I'm proposing to use untreated wood, but to finish it
>with a high quality wood preservitive, such as Thompsons. I'd like to present
>my case from a position of substantive knowledge.


  The most common preservatives are creosote, pentachlorophenol and
inorganic arsenic salts.  The first two are sold as paints for home 
application, while the third is used primarily in commercial "pressure
treated" wood.
  The terms pressure treated and preserved seem innocuous enough, but
the chemicals involved are potent pesticides formulated to repel termites,
bacteria and fungi for decades.  Although homeowners want their playsets to
last, the thought of children playing on poisoned wood is repugnant.  It is 
not surprising, then, that as wood gained popularity as a play structure
materiel, preservatives came under close scrutiny.  The chemicals are
practical and convenient, but are they safe?
  Ultimately all preservatives pose some risk, although the health hazard
varies from potentially serious to negligible.  Creosote, the smelly black
goo that is smeared on railroad ties and telephone poles is the oldest
industrial wood preservative and has been in use for almost 150 years.
In laboratory animals it causes skin irritation, cancer and genetic damage;
in humans, it has been linked to skin cancer and causes eye and skin 
irritations, dermatitis and burns.  It remains potent for years, moving
easily through the wood to affect the soil - and the skin and lungs of
anyone who touches it or breathes its vapors.
  Pentachlorophenol (PCP) is a cleaner alternative to creosote, but is
equally suspect from a health standpoint.  A member of the same chemical 
family as 2,4,5-T, it contains dioxins and has caused cancer and birth
defects in laboratory animals as well as short term effects such as
skin, eye, nose and throat irritations.  It is easily inhaled and absorbed
through the skin and continues to give off toxic vapors for as long as seven
years.  The EPA controls the use of both PCP and creosote and recommends
sealing any wood that has been contaminated by these preservatives with two
coats of urethane, shellac or latex epoxy enamel (shellac is inappropriate
for play structures for it is slippery when wet).
  The pressure treated wood sold in lumber yards is preserved with inorganic
arsenic compounds, either chromated copper arsenic (CCA) or ammoniacal
copper arsenate (ACA).  CCA was developed by Karl Hienrick Wolman in 1913
(hence the term Wolmanized) and has been used for 50 years as an inexpensive
alternate to creosote.  Associated with rats and lace trimmed old ladies
diabolically doing in unsuspecting boarders, "arsenic" strikes a note of
uneasiness in most people, but it is a common element in the environment.
The form of arsenic used in treated wood is the pentavalent state - the
same that is found in shrimp, mushrooms, rice and sardines.  In laboratory 
animals, inorganic arsenic compounds can cause cancer, birth defects and
genetic mutations, as well as headaches, dizziness and muscle spasms.  But,
unlike PCP and creosote, the arsenic preservatives bind tightly to the wood
fibers.  Studies show that the chemicals do not migrate to the surrounding
soil and plant tissue and are not absorbed through human skin.  The EPA
concluded that pressure treated wood is "safe for frequent contact because
absorption through the skin is negligible."
  The preservative sometimes leaves a bloom of chemical residue on the lumber,
and while children cannot absorb the arsenic by directly touching it, their
fingers often end up in their mouths.  To assess this danger, the California
State Department of Health conducted a study in which researchers repeatedly
licked their hands after rubbing them over treated wood surfaces.  After 
several days of testing, their urine showed no increase of arsenic even
though the measuring device was sensitive enough to detect the effects of
a single sardine.  The authors of `Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' concluded that kids have as much chance
of getting skin cancer from the CCA-treated play equipment as they do from
playing in the sun.
  CCA is probably more of a health risk to parents than to their children
since minute amounts of preservative laced sawdust may be inhaled or 
swallowed during construction.  Wear a dust mask when sawing or machining
arsenic-preserved wood, and do the work outdoors to avoid contaminating
indoor air with preservative dust.  Because incineration of treated wood
releases arsine, an extremely poisonous gas, wood scraps should never be
burned; bury them or take them to an approved dump site.
  Pressure treating the wood does not inject preservatives right to the core
of the lumber; thus, drilled or cut surfaces have to be brushed with at
least two coats of liquid preservative.  Wear rubber gloves during these 
applications, avoid dripping the chemical on plants, and wash hands 
thoroughly after any skin contact to remove any residue.  After the 
structure is built, hose it down with soap and water to remove any surface 
deposits of chemicals.
  Though these three account for the bulk of preservatives sold there are
alternatives: low toxicity preservatives such as copper and zinc napthanate,
copper-8-quinolinolate, polybase, bis[tributyltin]oxide (TBTO), and 
TBTO/polybase.  These are not known carcinogens, are not herbicidal or 
poisonous in the concentrations used for preserving wood and are relatively
stable.  All effectively prevent damage from mold, mildew and rot by keeping 
the wood dry enough to discharge fungi and bacteria.  Copper napthanate, the
active ingredient in Cuprinol, has been on the market the longest (1948).
Often used to treat lumber for greenhouse growing beds, copper napthanate
is the only one of the above chemicals rated to withstand constant ground
contact.  Because it can be difficult to paint over and must be reapplied
if the wood cracks, it is better to use copper napthanate below ground, and
use zinc napthanate or one of the other water-repellant finishes above ground.
These chemicals are not, however, sufficient to protect wood against termites.
Termites feast on copper napthanate as readily as they do cedar, leaving CCA
treated wood as the only alternative for areas with termite problems.

I hope this has helped.

			-Pete-

References:
California State Department of Health - "Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
	Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment'
Canadian Institute of Child Health - "Moving and Growing"
Home Playgrounds - Merilyn Mohr - Camden House

Disclaimer:These are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect 
           the opinions of Citicorp or it's management.
*Batteries not included, void where prohibited, discontinue reading if a
 rash develops.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- 
* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas  or  bellas@ttidca.tti.com      *
-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                "Never trust a man who doesn't play golf."                 |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........................griff@ole.cdac.com................................



 


>From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:58 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:32:11 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber.warning.new

Article 14611 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!jim.mcnelly
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: raised beds
Message-ID: <1878.104.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us>
Date: 16 Mar 93 16:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Lines: 38

To: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer)
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us
Date: 15 Mar 93 12:38:40

DO>rd Lauria) writes:
DO>        >I am planning to build some raised beds for my garden.  It seems
DO>        >smart to use pressure treated wood to protect from rot, but it seem
DO>        >I remember seeing something awhile back that this was bad because
DO>        >the chemicals could leach into the soil and then into the plants.
DO>        >
DO>        >Is this true?  What have others done?  Not use PT wood?  Line the
DO>        >bed with plastic?

Pressure treated lumber, or Cromated Copper Arsenate, CCA contains over
3000 PPM arsenic and over 1000 PPM lead. The EPA sludge rules set the
acceptable limit for arsenic at 11 PPM and lead at 250. While it is
generally true that arsenic does not leach out of properly treated wood,
the sawdust is rarely vacuumed and disposed and it can run off into
surface water and permanently contaminate the soil. Improperly treated
wood can contain live aresenic crystals and the brochure that is
SUPPOSED to be handed out every time any CCA treated wood is sold warns
about contacting the wood with skin, as arsenic is a severe carcinogen,
notably for skin cancer. The info can be acquired from the Treated Wood
Assn at 800-241-0240. The scraps should NEVER be burned as both fumes
and ash are highly toxic. Currently, there is NO acceptable disposal
option for treated lumber, and the product does eventually decompose,
leaving its metals in the soil.

Jim the Compost Man~~~~~
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS...
 . QNet3. . * <W-NET> * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST
                                                                              
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>From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:07:21 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:36:32 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: pt-lumber.newinfo

Article 233 of triangle.gardens:
Newsgroups: triangle.gardens
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!math.ncsu.edu!crsc
From: crsc@math.ncsu.edu (CRSC Account)
Subject: Re: Cold Frame Materials Question
Message-ID: <1993Dec14.142015.25464@ncsu.edu>
Summary: Don't use treated wood!
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:20:15 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com> sasbaa@fang.unx.sas.com (Anne Albright) writes:
>
>        Does anybody know what the considerations are for choosing a 
>type of wood to use for a cold frame (that will be used for vegetables)?
>
>        I am interested in what preservatives can be used on the
>wood, if any, that won't cause a problem leaching into the soil or with
>fumes being absorbed by the plants. Is treated wood ok? Is it ok to
>use varnish? What can I put on untreated wood that would be ok? 
>
>        Thanks a lot.

Check out the latest copy of Organic Gardening for the most thorough discussion
I've yet seen regarding the use of pressure-treated wood for gardening. 
Although they didn't discuss alternatives in this article, (I think they did
in an article earlier in the year) I won't be using treated wood in any 
projects in my garden unless they will be completely sealed - painted or 
waterproofed.  They cite research that shows that contact with acidic
organics like compost, speeds the leaching of the chemicals into the soil.
One of the chemicals involved is arsenic; it can be absorbed by plants
and is particularly concentrated in the roots. I don't know if varnish is
ok for plants, but it probably would be a good way to seal the wood and
prevent chemical leaching. For other possible wood to use, you might consider
cedar (I think it has similar properties to redwood, which is about the
only wood used in outdoor projects in CA).

-- Lisa Becker




 

Article 29587 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Is CCA PT lumber OK for a
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.ans.net!paperboy.amoco.com!apctrc!msc.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.654.2817.0N429249@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat,  9 Apr 94 13:06:00 +0600
Organization: Granite Information Svs. 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 90


Doug Caprette asks:

D>Hmm, I get the impression that I may have just missed a discussion on this
 >topic.

D>Anyway, can anyone provide some informed opinion as to whether there would be
 >any problems anticipated with the use of Chromated copper arsenate treated
 >lumber for a grape arbor?


D>"I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo;" -- Elrond

Great tagline Doug,

Here is my FAQ on Arsenic Lumber, and in another post, the product
safety sheet that is *supposed* to be handed out to every purchaser of
the product which was a part of the EPA agreement to allow the product
to be sold.

Additional information on CCA, Chromated Copper Arsenate.

The wood has been tested by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency,
Hazardous Waste section to be over 3000 parts per million arsenic. The
EPA limit on arsenic in sewage sludge for unrestricted use is 11 PPM.
There is at least one case of 24 cows dying from eating ash from CCA
wood ash in MN and several cases in other states. There is another case
of arsenic poisoning in a Wisconsin family from a backdraft in their
fireplace while burning treated wood.

Arsenic is associated with hair loss, diarrhea, asthma, skin cancer and
other skin disorders. Particular caution should be exercised if the wood
has a white, gritty residue on the surface, as these may be arsenic
crystals. Penetrating oil stain may slow down weathering of fibers and
reduce arsenic surface residues. The exposed ends of boards are more
likely to leach arsenic than the rest of the board. The wood should be
resealed every two years.

Of particular concern is sawdust left at construction sites that can he
ingested by children, pets, or become exposed to the skin. Runoff of
sawdust into ponds, pools, wells and gardens is another concern. Arsenic
is rated by the EPA as a class A carcinogen, the top level of risk.
Children "mouthing" the wood are also at risk, especially the board ends
that release twelve times the arsenic of the rest of the wood. This is
especially a concern as arsenic treated wood is a common component in
playground equipment. Tests for arsenic beneath children's play
equipment have run as high as hundreds of times above background levels.

Treated wood is also a problem in disposal. While such a broad range
biocide such as CCA retards decay, it does not stop it. Estimates of rot
resistance of 20 to 50 years are common. The wood will *eventually*
decay, and with the sawdust and ends from construction, will have to go
somewhere. The treated wood industries have lobbied to have CCA treated
wood exempted from hazardous waste designation through a de-listing
procedure that is still unclear. The product is currently allowed to be
sent to conventional and demolition landfills.

It is often burned with other wood wastes and is commonly chipped into
landscape mulch or compressed into toxic fuel pellets. It releases toxic
fumes and ash in house fires, putting neighbors and firefighters at
extra risk. The ash from a burned CCA patio deck is not managed as the
hazardous material it is.

The argument from the treated wood industry has been that the arsenic
does not leach from the wood fiber under normal soil conditions. While
this is somewhat true, it is misleading. The wood will _eventually_
decay and leach its metals and there is currently no safe disposal. The
practice of burning wood scraps and the mismanagement of the wood both
residentially and commercially has resulted in airborne arsenic levels
increasing nationwide, especially in the major cities where scavengers
burn scrap wood for heat.

Most uses of the wood such as decks, fences, and stakes are not
necessary for such extreme wood treatment. Only in the Southeast is the
potential of climate high in promoting decay. There is no need for
treated wood at all in the west, except on the northwest coast. Because
of these concerns, but primarily due to the threats of the wood to
commercial organic wood recycling, I am recommending that the product
only be sold or used by licensed and trained professionals, similar to
other hazardous pesticides, and that it be banned from non-hazardous
land disposal sites.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
 * April 9th - A bird in the hand craps on the wrist.


Article 25759 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL


Article 25760 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: arsenic soil contaminatio
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4197.2552.0N41F04B@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 31

This message was originally addressed to Catherine Albert
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------

CA>Jim,
  >Hi, my name is Catherine.  I live in Colorado Springs, CO in a rental home a

CA>am curious about HOW TO TEST some LUMBER used for a retaining wall in the
  >backyard.  My concern is that this wood is also a defining edge of my
  >vegetable
  >garden.  Is there somewhere I could send a chunk of this wood to have it
  >analyzed?  I have no idea if it was treated lumber or not; I suspect it was.

CA>Thank you for the information...

Hi Catherine,

Try the local Agricultural extension office, the university, an
agricultural testing laboratory, or a private laboratory.  Have them
test for soil mineral content, making sure that there is a test for
copper in the bunch.  Arsenic testing is expensive.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 25th - Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Took the Dog. Dorothy.

cc: all


Article 25586 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:27:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 38

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Ray Foster to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber


RF>OK, a question from someone to whom this is all new: how can you tell if lum
  >has been treated with CCA?

RF>We bought a house this past summer. The previous owner had built some raised
  >gardens beds using wood. How can I tell whether this is pressure treated woo


Ray, you bring up the chief reason why I believe that arsenic amended
wood should be installed only by licensed pesticide professionals and
that its installation should be clearly identified in the deed of the
property, with full chain of custody like hazardous materials in the
commercial arena.

Aside from the distinctive green or brown tint, there really is no way
to tell.  You may try notching or scratching the wood and see if it is
still stained, since the arsenic, lead, copper, and chromium penetrate
to the core of the wood.

This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

Testing for copper is much cheaper than arsenic, if you care to have the
wood analyzed.



Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - COMPOSTING: Because a rind is a terrible thing to waste.


Article 25634 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew
From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Date: 21 Jan 1994 18:10:02 GMT
Organization: Sun
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mk06jqINNkjc@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous

jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
>be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
>"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

I think you'll have better luck getting its presence recorded on
the deed.  DIY handymen (and probably some professionals) would
try to remove the warning from visible surfaces with a plane, and
then you have toxic wood shavings in addition to the toxic
sawdust and wood scraps.

BTW, thanks for pointing out that the big problem isn't whether
or not the toxins leach into the garden soil, but what becomes of
the treated wood after its useful life.

Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM     The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth?
                             Who makes him deaf or dumb?  Who gives him sight
Soli Deo Gloria!             or makes him blind?  Is it not I, the LORD?"


Article 25575 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!daneel!seldon!nathan
From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Number 6)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Message-ID: <1994Jan19.003211.22232@daneel.foundation.tricon.com>
Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc., Lompoc, CA
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 00:32:10 GMT
Lines: 32

I think the *best* way to get people to realize the dangers of
pressure treated lumber is the one suggested by "Mr. Compost" (sorry,
I'm in my "primitive" news reader now...so I can't get the real name).
Here in California and probably just about everywhere else, you have
to sign your life away on lead paint.  It is a requirement for most
types of loans (mostly Federal Gov't backed ones).  We had to sign so
many disclosures to buy this house it was incredible  but I was glad
that they TOLD us what we were getting into (possibly).  [We don't
have lead paint, btw].  So, a first step is getting the state or the
federal government to look at the research and then draft up a
disclosure statement that must be signed by all homeowners when
applying for the loan.  This does NOT mean that people will actually
read it, unfortunately.  But, if they sign it, and then try to sue
somebody, it'll fly back into their face for not reading it.

Also, I think all landfills that are unlined should just stop taking
the stuff.  We get all our water from the ground and I shudder to
think what the local toxic waste dump cleanup that's in progress is
finding out!  (Not to mention what Unocal Oil is dumping into our
water).

btw  does anyone know how to tell pressure treated lumber? I may have
some of that in my garden  hope not.  I don't think it is because
it's falling apart and rotting and is not all that old.  ("Railroad"
ties as an edging material).



***********************************************************************
Nathan D. Lane, VP Triicon Systems. Lompoc, CA  (805) 7331849 
NaN != 6, 6 == 1.  I am not a number, I am a free list!
I'm a programmer  my computers are more valuable than my cars.


Article 25595 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4061.2552.0N41EEDF@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 22:50:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 153

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim

P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.  As to whether or not
arsenic is harmful, you *must* be kidding.

My problem with treated wood is its uncontrolled use, its misuse, and
its ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation
where it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not
in contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised, but people use arsenic wood
because they are too lazy to seal pine.  Arsenic wood should be sealed
anyway, but too few do it.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.
Sawdust run off has been linked to deaths of exotic fish in back yard
ponds.  Sudden kills of Koi after installing a deck or other arsenic
landscape project are being increasingly reported.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome or exposed to arsenic requiring medical attention from arsenic
fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and outdoor fires.  I have
copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects of arsenic poisoning
and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, which even
in small quantities can cause skin cancer.  The doubling of the rate
of skin cancer (albeit coincidentally) parallels the time period when
arsenic wood was introduced to the environment.  The pathways of
exposure can come from working with the wood without gloves or
protective clothing or getting the dust on the body. It can also come
from walking on treated wood with bare feet or mouthing the wood,
especially cut ends and nicks. Ash contact with the skin, even from a
fire miles away can cause skin cancer.

Children playing in the dirt where arsenic sawdust was left years
previously can be a means of arsenic exposure.  The arsenic levels under
treated wood play equipment have been tested at 200 times background
levels.  The documentation on the use of treated wood tell users to wear
protective clothing, shower after working, vacuum the sawdust, refrain
from smoking and eating, and to send the scraps to the landfill.  How
often are buyers give the instructions for safe use?  How many follow
the recommended practices? Hardly any, which is why I call it a product
out of control.

P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.  The treated wood industry has repeatedly
engaged me on other Bulletin Boards in arguing the issue of
leachability, of which I concede their points.  Frankly I am surprised
they are not here on rec.gardens with their party line of "no leach in
soul equals safe" argument.  My argument is not leachability and uptake
by plants, it is the issue of the widespread abuse of the product that I
am concerned about.

P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust, waste, and ash.   The rate of
decomposition of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been
on the market for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the
past fifteen. The wood has yet to rot to the point of being a leaching
problem...... yet.  No one denies that it is a matter of time when it is
a leaching problem.  Then we will have arsenic on root vegetables,
children eating arsenic contaminated soil, children playing in arsenic
rotted wood, airborne arsenic dust, arsenic silt run off and so forth.
It will be a major problem around the year 2025.  A sad legacy because
people won't take the effort to seal pine when building decks, in my
opinion.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site. I say to stop its uncontrolled sale and reserve its
use for applications that are demonstrated to require a biocide treated
wood.  Then to track its location and ultimate disposal, just like any
other biohazard is managed in commercial use.  The household exemption
for hazardous waste can no longer be swept under the rug.  What goes
into the environment has to be accounted for.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - It is not logical, but it is often true.


Article 25581 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news
From: os2user@brdiller.houston.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <CJwHpI.3tz2@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:39:18 GMT
Lines: 95
Reply-To: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
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In <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>, pauls@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Richard J. Pauls) writes:
>In article <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>
>>...
>>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
>>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
>>ensure safe ultimate disposal.
>>
>>How about it, rec.garden members?
>>
>>Mr Compost~~~
>>
>>Jim McNelly~~~
>
>Jim
>
>I am very concerned about arsenic poisoning, and I plan to remove the treated
>wood from around my gardens this spring just to be safe.  That is, just
>IN CASE it actually is harmful.  I can due without the wood, so why take
>any chance is my position.

I think that this pretty well summarized my opinion on this matter until I
read Jim McNelly's post, which you've partially quoted above.

>
>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
>harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
>So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.

I think you're missing what I considered to be Mr. McNelly's main point:

    "Properly processed treated wood does not leach arsenic under
     normal conditions. How we, the public and the environmental
     community, focused on this one narrow issue and missed the
     rest of the story, the story about the sawdust, the scraps, the
     ash, and the ultimate disposal is shameful."

Now, we can all argue here about how much arsenic actually leaches
into our garden soil from CCA lumber under different conditions, and
we can talk about what PPM of arsenic in our garden soil might be an
intolerable amount, and so forth - and those would probably be some
very useful discussions - but the larger issue is what is to become of
all our CCA lumber when we're finished with it.

Is CCA lumber going to be the 'asbestos' of the 1990's or 2000's?

>Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
>lumber?  The warning label that comes on the wood is not conclusive.
>In reading this group, there seem to be more posts
>saying the wood is ok than there are saying it is harmful.  Without
>conclusive evidence from multiple sources I do not believe we or any
>other group will have a chance of removing this poison from common
>houshold use in decks and gardens.  I heard about the article in  Organic
>Gardening, but have not yet read it.  I also heard that it was not
>quantitative.  I want more than just scare tactics from the environmentally
>extreme.  I want the facts.  Is this wood dangerous or not?  Until the
>facts are revealed, I will not be using treated lumber just in case.
>If there is so much concern about this stuff why arn't there more tests?
>I want answers like this:
>
>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
>of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
>soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the vegetables.
>Then publish results:
>

 <deletions>

>
>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
>harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

And if the levels of leached arsenic proved acceptable to you, will you
then go out and buy a couple of tons of CCA lumber and place it in your
backyard?

Are you prepared to handle the lumber properly during construction? What
are you going to do with the sawdust and scraps - send them to your
local landfill? Burn them? And what will you do in 20 years when the
lumber has turned to mush, or in 5 years when you decide to remodel or
re-landscape?

Please re-read Jim McNelly's note. Arsenic 'leaching' is not CCA
lumber's biggest liability.

>
>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?
>
>
>
>Rich

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry R. Diller                              IBM Federal Sector Sevices Company
EMail address: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com         Houston, Texas USA



Article 25621 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 00:02:00 +0600
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Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim


P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.

My problem with treated wood is is uncontrolled use, its misuse, and its
ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation where
it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not in
contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome from arsenic fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and
outdoor fires.  I have copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects
of arsenic poisoning and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage
come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, even in
small quantities which the main symptom is skin cancer.  This is caused
from working with the wood without gloves or protective clothing and
getting the dust on the body.  It can also come from walking on treated
wood with bare feet.  Ash contact with the skin, even from a fire miles
away can cause skin cancer.


P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.


P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust and ash.   The rate of decomposition
of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been on the market
for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the past fifteen.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination


Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - Another conundrum to ponder


Article 25573 of rec.gardens:
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron)
Date: 19 Jan 1994 11:32:20 -0800
Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp>
Distribution: world
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In <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> Bob Klebba
  <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu> writes:

>In article <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> Schooder,
>bene@u.washington.edu writes:
>>I read an article in Organic Gardening...a couple months ago,
>>can't find the issue right now...that said more nasties DO leach
>>out of PT wood than the industry would like you to know.

The "more than the industry would like you to know" phrase was Schooder's,
it's not in the article.

>How much is more than we would like to know?  Is it 1 ppb, 5 ppb or is it
>a ppm?

It looks like the numbers are in the low ppm to very high ppb range. 
(They aren't directly stated but can be inferred from other numbers in
the article.)

>        I don't want to defend the wood products industry, but in my
>experience, OG isn't known for their absolute quantitative accuracy.  How
>much can leach out before we need to be concerned vis a vis all the other
>pollutants we expose ourselves to everyday?

I've typed in some excerpts (about half) of the Organic Gardening
article, attached below.  I'm glad I haven't built my raised beds yet.

Matt Heffron

----------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from the Organic Gardening article:
"TREATED WOOD:  Yes, it's still toxic!"
by Cheryl Long and Mike McGrath
(Jan 94, pp 71-74)

Recently, a Texas count extension agent pronounced
pressure-treated wood safe to use in raised bed gardens. 
Newspapers, industry magazines such as _Nursery News_, and
even another major American gardenign magazine all reported
this finding not only as truth, but as the final word on
the subject.

   ...Many readers have written to ask if we have changed
our opinion on treated wood and/or to comment on this new
report from Texas.

   No, we haven't changed our opinion and that Texas report
was not a true scientific study.  It was a half thought-out
experiment conducted by a local extension agent and an
extension vegetable specialist after gardeners in their
region became concerned following our reports about the
dangers of using "pressure-treated" wood (which is actually
made with two heavy metals and arsenic, not "pressure" as
the companies that produce this stuff would like you to
think).

   Anyway, these two guys took 15 soil samples from raised
bed gardens framed with CCA (chromated copper arsenic)
treated wood and had them tested.  Despite the fact that
two different labs found measurable amounts of arsenic in
every instance, these two rocket scientists still concluded
that the tests had somehow "confirmed that arsenic was not
leaching from the timbers."

   ...In a _real_ study, the arsenic levels found in the
treated-wood soil would have been compared to the amount
(if any) of arsenic found in similar soil that wasn't
surrounded by treated wood.  All they _can_ say for sure
from their limited testing is that there was definately
arsenic in every soil sample taken near treated wood.  How
they determined that the arsenic did not come from the
treated wood is beyond us.
   ...

   We, on the other hand, have continued our research on
"pressure-treated" wood and are even _more_ convinced than
ever that this stuff should not be used in organic gardens.
Here are excerpts from some of the additional scientific
studies we've reviewed recently:  

* "This study suggests that leaching of metals from treated
wood in acidic waters (natural or resulting from acidic
precipitation) _[Editor's Note: acid rain]_ may present an
unacceptable environmental risk...Leaching of metals from
weathered wood found to be very similar to that from new
wood...Results from this study suggest that organic acids
may cause greater leaching from CCA-treated wood than
mineral acids...Organic acids are present in...soils, bogs
and wetland areas."
-- Warner and Solomon, _Environmental Toxicology and
Chemistry_, 1990

* "It has been shown that organic acids may cause
significant leaching of all components of CCA...CCA-treated
jack pine blocks exposed to vegetable compost had greater
leaching losses (12 to 13 percent CCA leached) than matched
samples in distilled water (4 to 6 percent leached),
exterior weathering (2 to 8 percent) or exterior soil burial
(1 to 6 percent.)"
-- Cooper and Ung, _Forest Products Journal_, Sept. 1992

...

* "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
Norwegian requirements."
-- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
Preservation, 1987

* "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
leached from piers and bulkheads."
-- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
1991

...

Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
much._

...

   Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
_1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
arsenic."

   When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)

   New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
water.)

   ...

   We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
list if you want to look them up yourself.

   ...

   So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.

   Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
"wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
cloth afterwards.

----------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Matt Heffron                      heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
Beckman Instruments, Inc.         voice: (714) 961-3128
2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100
I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so.


Article 25673 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!owlnet.rice.edu!segura
From: segura@owlnet.rice.edu (Chad James Segura)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Sender: news@rice.edu (News)
Organization: Rice University
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Lines: 103

In article <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>, heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) writes:


A lot deleted.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> * "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
|> leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
|> wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
|> roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
|> Norwegian requirements."
|> -- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
|> Preservation, 1987

I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

|> 
|> * "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
|> 2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
|> enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
|> leached from piers and bulkheads."
|> -- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
|> 1991

Enough to kill a mouse, but in what concentration. Pure?
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
|> that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
|> wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
|> much._

They do?  Of course, there is some leaching, but it is the
amount that matters and not that it does.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|>    Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
|> Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
|> been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
|> plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
|> _1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
|> about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
|> toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
|> organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
|> arsenic."
|> 
|>    When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
|> is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
|> they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
|> that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
|> definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
|> eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
|> accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)
|> 
|>    New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
|> drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
|> the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
|> currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
|> drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
|> in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
|> that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
|> water.)

That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
I do not eat soil.

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
|> government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
|> the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
|> us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
|> list if you want to look them up yourself.

And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
didn't match your conclusions?

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
|> treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
|> their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
|> wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
|> equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.
|> 
|>    Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
|> detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
|> American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
|> Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
|> of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
|> "wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
|> of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
|> cloth afterwards.


Chad


Article 25699 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ajh@diamond.idbsu.edu (Andrew Huang)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
In-Reply-To: segura@owlnet.rice.edu's message of Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Message-ID: <AJH.94Jan23131419@diamond.idbsu.edu>
Sender: usenet@guinness.idbsu.edu (Usenet News mail)
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Organization: Boise State Mathematics Department
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp>
	<2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com> <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Date: 23 Jan 94 13:14:19
Lines: 21

Chad James Segura) writes:
   I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

In Bermuda, you have no choice.  Building codes _require_ the
inclusion of cisterns that collect rain water from the roofs for
domestic use.

   That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
   I do not eat soil.

Yes, but your children and their friend do.  And if you garden, you
will get it on your skin, which turns out to be a good way to absorb
As.

   And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
   didn't match your conclusions?

Don't needle the poster - the posting was clearly marked as an excerpt
from Organic Gardening.

-andy



From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:05:59 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:45:44 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL

From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:34 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:31:28 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber

Article 15654 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nwnexus!ole!griff
From: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Subject: Pressure treated lumber repost
Message-ID: <1993Apr15.072417.6622@ole.cdac.com>
Sender: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Organization: Cascade Design Automation, Bellevue, WA
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:24:17 GMT
Lines: 151

This is a repost of an article I read a while ago on this subject that
seemed so well documented that it was hard to ignore.  I got tweaked
into reposting it after reading someone getting flamed about using
good 'ol CCA40 by a bozo that seemed to not take much of anything
seriously.

Hope it helps whoever requested it.

griff@cdac.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was posted in misc.consumers.house a while ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: bellas@ttidca.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.med,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hazards of arsenic in pressure-treated wood used in play equipment
Date: 9 Aug 90 17:58:28 GMT
Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica

In article <76@towernet.UUCP> mcg@rigel.uucp (22630-M C Germain(1772)L999) writes:
>
>
>A group of us are building a playground set and the use of pressure-treated
>wood had been suggested. I recall a that demonstrated health hazard existed do
>to the arsenic and chromium compounds used, both from physical contact of wood 
>surfaces and from subsequent leaching of arsenic and chromium-containing  into 
>the immediate soil. My concern is that small children, playing on the 
>playground set, would most certainly come into contact with these compounds, 
>may put fingers into their mouths, or have snacks without washing up prior to 
>eating. 
>
>I'm looking for papers and, or other info in the scientific literature which
>discusses this issue. I'm proposing to use untreated wood, but to finish it
>with a high quality wood preservitive, such as Thompsons. I'd like to present
>my case from a position of substantive knowledge.


  The most common preservatives are creosote, pentachlorophenol and
inorganic arsenic salts.  The first two are sold as paints for home 
application, while the third is used primarily in commercial "pressure
treated" wood.
  The terms pressure treated and preserved seem innocuous enough, but
the chemicals involved are potent pesticides formulated to repel termites,
bacteria and fungi for decades.  Although homeowners want their playsets to
last, the thought of children playing on poisoned wood is repugnant.  It is 
not surprising, then, that as wood gained popularity as a play structure
materiel, preservatives came under close scrutiny.  The chemicals are
practical and convenient, but are they safe?
  Ultimately all preservatives pose some risk, although the health hazard
varies from potentially serious to negligible.  Creosote, the smelly black
goo that is smeared on railroad ties and telephone poles is the oldest
industrial wood preservative and has been in use for almost 150 years.
In laboratory animals it causes skin irritation, cancer and genetic damage;
in humans, it has been linked to skin cancer and causes eye and skin 
irritations, dermatitis and burns.  It remains potent for years, moving
easily through the wood to affect the soil - and the skin and lungs of
anyone who touches it or breathes its vapors.
  Pentachlorophenol (PCP) is a cleaner alternative to creosote, but is
equally suspect from a health standpoint.  A member of the same chemical 
family as 2,4,5-T, it contains dioxins and has caused cancer and birth
defects in laboratory animals as well as short term effects such as
skin, eye, nose and throat irritations.  It is easily inhaled and absorbed
through the skin and continues to give off toxic vapors for as long as seven
years.  The EPA controls the use of both PCP and creosote and recommends
sealing any wood that has been contaminated by these preservatives with two
coats of urethane, shellac or latex epoxy enamel (shellac is inappropriate
for play structures for it is slippery when wet).
  The pressure treated wood sold in lumber yards is preserved with inorganic
arsenic compounds, either chromated copper arsenic (CCA) or ammoniacal
copper arsenate (ACA).  CCA was developed by Karl Hienrick Wolman in 1913
(hence the term Wolmanized) and has been used for 50 years as an inexpensive
alternate to creosote.  Associated with rats and lace trimmed old ladies
diabolically doing in unsuspecting boarders, "arsenic" strikes a note of
uneasiness in most people, but it is a common element in the environment.
The form of arsenic used in treated wood is the pentavalent state - the
same that is found in shrimp, mushrooms, rice and sardines.  In laboratory 
animals, inorganic arsenic compounds can cause cancer, birth defects and
genetic mutations, as well as headaches, dizziness and muscle spasms.  But,
unlike PCP and creosote, the arsenic preservatives bind tightly to the wood
fibers.  Studies show that the chemicals do not migrate to the surrounding
soil and plant tissue and are not absorbed through human skin.  The EPA
concluded that pressure treated wood is "safe for frequent contact because
absorption through the skin is negligible."
  The preservative sometimes leaves a bloom of chemical residue on the lumber,
and while children cannot absorb the arsenic by directly touching it, their
fingers often end up in their mouths.  To assess this danger, the California
State Department of Health conducted a study in which researchers repeatedly
licked their hands after rubbing them over treated wood surfaces.  After 
several days of testing, their urine showed no increase of arsenic even
though the measuring device was sensitive enough to detect the effects of
a single sardine.  The authors of `Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' concluded that kids have as much chance
of getting skin cancer from the CCA-treated play equipment as they do from
playing in the sun.
  CCA is probably more of a health risk to parents than to their children
since minute amounts of preservative laced sawdust may be inhaled or 
swallowed during construction.  Wear a dust mask when sawing or machining
arsenic-preserved wood, and do the work outdoors to avoid contaminating
indoor air with preservative dust.  Because incineration of treated wood
releases arsine, an extremely poisonous gas, wood scraps should never be
burned; bury them or take them to an approved dump site.
  Pressure treating the wood does not inject preservatives right to the core
of the lumber; thus, drilled or cut surfaces have to be brushed with at
least two coats of liquid preservative.  Wear rubber gloves during these 
applications, avoid dripping the chemical on plants, and wash hands 
thoroughly after any skin contact to remove any residue.  After the 
structure is built, hose it down with soap and water to remove any surface 
deposits of chemicals.
  Though these three account for the bulk of preservatives sold there are
alternatives: low toxicity preservatives such as copper and zinc napthanate,
copper-8-quinolinolate, polybase, bis[tributyltin]oxide (TBTO), and 
TBTO/polybase.  These are not known carcinogens, are not herbicidal or 
poisonous in the concentrations used for preserving wood and are relatively
stable.  All effectively prevent damage from mold, mildew and rot by keeping 
the wood dry enough to discharge fungi and bacteria.  Copper napthanate, the
active ingredient in Cuprinol, has been on the market the longest (1948).
Often used to treat lumber for greenhouse growing beds, copper napthanate
is the only one of the above chemicals rated to withstand constant ground
contact.  Because it can be difficult to paint over and must be reapplied
if the wood cracks, it is better to use copper napthanate below ground, and
use zinc napthanate or one of the other water-repellant finishes above ground.
These chemicals are not, however, sufficient to protect wood against termites.
Termites feast on copper napthanate as readily as they do cedar, leaving CCA
treated wood as the only alternative for areas with termite problems.

I hope this has helped.

			-Pete-

References:
California State Department of Health - "Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
	Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment'
Canadian Institute of Child Health - "Moving and Growing"
Home Playgrounds - Merilyn Mohr - Camden House

Disclaimer:These are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect 
           the opinions of Citicorp or it's management.
*Batteries not included, void where prohibited, discontinue reading if a
 rash develops.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- 
* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas  or  bellas@ttidca.tti.com      *
-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                "Never trust a man who doesn't play golf."                 |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........................griff@ole.cdac.com................................



 


From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:58 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:32:11 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber.warning.new

Article 14611 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!jim.mcnelly
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: raised beds
Message-ID: <1878.104.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us>
Date: 16 Mar 93 16:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Lines: 38

To: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer)
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us
Date: 15 Mar 93 12:38:40

DO>rd Lauria) writes:
DO>        >I am planning to build some raised beds for my garden.  It seems
DO>        >smart to use pressure treated wood to protect from rot, but it seem
DO>        >I remember seeing something awhile back that this was bad because
DO>        >the chemicals could leach into the soil and then into the plants.
DO>        >
DO>        >Is this true?  What have others done?  Not use PT wood?  Line the
DO>        >bed with plastic?

Pressure treated lumber, or Cromated Copper Arsenate, CCA contains over
3000 PPM arsenic and over 1000 PPM lead. The EPA sludge rules set the
acceptable limit for arsenic at 11 PPM and lead at 250. While it is
generally true that arsenic does not leach out of properly treated wood,
the sawdust is rarely vacuumed and disposed and it can run off into
surface water and permanently contaminate the soil. Improperly treated
wood can contain live aresenic crystals and the brochure that is
SUPPOSED to be handed out every time any CCA treated wood is sold warns
about contacting the wood with skin, as arsenic is a severe carcinogen,
notably for skin cancer. The info can be acquired from the Treated Wood
Assn at 800-241-0240. The scraps should NEVER be burned as both fumes
and ash are highly toxic. Currently, there is NO acceptable disposal
option for treated lumber, and the product does eventually decompose,
leaving its metals in the soil.

Jim the Compost Man~~~~~
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS...
 . QNet3. . * <W-NET> * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST
                                                                              
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From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:07:21 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:36:32 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: pt-lumber.newinfo

Article 233 of triangle.gardens:
Newsgroups: triangle.gardens
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!math.ncsu.edu!crsc
From: crsc@math.ncsu.edu (CRSC Account)
Subject: Re: Cold Frame Materials Question
Message-ID: <1993Dec14.142015.25464@ncsu.edu>
Summary: Don't use treated wood!
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:20:15 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com> sasbaa@fang.unx.sas.com (Anne Albright) writes:
>
>        Does anybody know what the considerations are for choosing a 
>type of wood to use for a cold frame (that will be used for vegetables)?
>
>        I am interested in what preservatives can be used on the
>wood, if any, that won't cause a problem leaching into the soil or with
>fumes being absorbed by the plants. Is treated wood ok? Is it ok to
>use varnish? What can I put on untreated wood that would be ok? 
>
>        Thanks a lot.

Check out the latest copy of Organic Gardening for the most thorough discussion
I've yet seen regarding the use of pressure-treated wood for gardening. 
Although they didn't discuss alternatives in this article, (I think they did
in an article earlier in the year) I won't be using treated wood in any 
projects in my garden unless they will be completely sealed - painted or 
waterproofed.  They cite research that shows that contact with acidic
organics like compost, speeds the leaching of the chemicals into the soil.
One of the chemicals involved is arsenic; it can be absorbed by plants
and is particularly concentrated in the roots. I don't know if varnish is
ok for plants, but it probably would be a good way to seal the wood and
prevent chemical leaching. For other possible wood to use, you might consider
cedar (I think it has similar properties to redwood, which is about the
only wood used in outdoor projects in CA).

-- Lisa Becker




 

 Õ   .    ¨   ..   Õ  water-treatment  Õ  bioremediation   Õ 0 &composting-to-clean-contaminated-soils   Õ   groundwater-remediation  Õh #fungal-mediated.soil-bioremediation                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             From Gerhild.Donnevert@mni.fh-giessen.de Tue Apr 11 22:44:06 EDT 1995
Article: 55790 of sci.environment
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!nntp.gmd.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.belwue.de!news.belwue.de!News.Uni-Marburg.DE!news.th-darmstadt.de!muster!news
From: Gerhild.Donnevert@mni.fh-giessen.de (Gerhild Donnevert)
Subject: Re: arsenic in the envoronment
Sender: news@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de
Message-ID: <D6tpH6.15H3@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 14:27:06 GMT
References: <3lvfgn$4d1@mark.ucdavis.edu>
Organization: FH Giessen-Friedberg, Germany
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1
Lines: 28

In article <3lvfgn$4d1@mark.ucdavis.edu>, fzyenath@chip.ucdavis.edu (Geeta Bharathan) says:
>
>Does anyone here know of instances where arsenic has been found in the 
>natural environment in high enough levels to pose a danger to living beings?
>
>Could you e-mail me any information (including references) that you might 
>have on this topic, especially ways to deal with the problem? I will post 
>a summary of replies that I receive if there is interest.
>
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Geeta


Hallo!

I am working about arsenic in environmental matrices. Sorry, I have no 
information for you yet. But I`ll see, what I can do for you. I think, 
I´ve noticed something in a book about trinking-water-pollution.
Do you know anything about the analysis of arsenic in soil or air by 
Zeeman-Graphite-AAS (Direct Solid Sample Analysis without Chemical 
Decomposition)?

Hope to stay in contact.

Angelika
  


From bodo@io.org Tue Apr 11 22:45:08 EDT 1995
Article: 55876 of sci.environment
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.mathworks.com!uunet!winternet.com!io.org!io.org!usenet
From: Byron Bodo <bodo@io.org>
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: arsenic in the envoronment
Date: 11 Apr 1995 05:56:00 GMT
Organization: Internex Online, Toronto, Ontario, Canada (416 363 3783)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3md5lg$2ot@ionews.io.org>
References: <3lvfgn$4d1@mark.ucdavis.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bodo.net3.io.org

fzyenath@chip.ucdavis.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
>
> Does anyone here know of instances where arsenic has been found in the 
> natural environment in high enough levels to pose a danger to living beings?
> 
> Could you e-mail me any information (including references) that you might 
> have on this topic, especially ways to deal with the problem? I will post 
> a summary of replies that I receive if there is interest.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Geeta

EPA & state guideline documents supporting whatever drinking water,
ambient water, soil, dredge spoil, sediment, etc. criteria exist for
As should have lots of references.

Ontario Ministry of Environment & Energy released an As water
quality objective document last year.  Address is 135 St. Clair
Ave. W., Toronto, ON.

-bb





From chg078@news.salford.ac.ukFri Mar 24 11:40:37 1995
Date: 22 Mar 1995 14:45:41 GMT
From: Andy Longworth <chg078@news.salford.ac.uk>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Biomass


Can anyone help me??

I an environmental student at Salford University and investigating energy 
sources as part of my project.  At the moment I am having little joy in 
finding anything on biomass from algae as a source of energy.  
What environmental factors are required to algae grow successfuly
How much energy produced
Main species used
Basicly anything relavent would be welcomed
Anything to do with alternative sources of energy would also be welcomed 
espcialy contacts with lots of info.

yours Andy

E.Mail me on 
A.longworth@chemistry.salford.ac.uk


I would like to take this oppotunity to thank everyone for donating 
a few braincells to help me.

Thankyou.
From jgc3@aber.ac.uk Sat Nov  4 20:20:57 EST 1995
Article: 833 of sci.bio.botany
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!nntp0.brunel.ac.uk!strath-cs!dcl-cs!bath.ac.uk!aber!osfa.aber.ac.uk!jgc3
From: James Cracknell <jgc3@aber.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.bio.botany
Subject: Metal Toxicity and Plants
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 21:42:41 +0000
Organization: Sefydliad y Biolegol - Institute of Biological Sciences - Prifysgol Cymru - Aberystwyth - University of Wales
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.951029214145.5726A-100000@osfa.aber.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osfa.aber.ac.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


I am conducting a literature research into Toxic Metals in Plants - If 
anyone can offer me any help eg. references - Sources on the Net etc - 
I'd be extremley grateful.

Please reply via e-mail straight to me,

cheers

James

James - <jgc3@aber.ac.uk>                Finger Info: jgc3@fileserv.aber.ac.uk

     | James Cracknell - http://www.aber.ac.uk/~jgc3 - jgc3@aber.ac.uk
     |  _` | __ `__ \   _ \  __|       No. 7 Pentre Jane Morgan
 \   | (   | |   |   |  __/\__ \      Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth
\___/ \__,_|_|  _|  _|\___|____/  Penglais, Aberystwyth, Dyfed SY23 3JJ UK
  Dept: Sefydliad y Gwyddorau Biolegol/Institute of Biological Sciences




From schwalbe@hoh.mbl.edu Fri Feb 24 22:19:34 EST 1995
Article: 5406 of bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!noc.near.net!netnews.whoi.edu!evolmac7.mbl.edu!user
From: schwalbe@hoh.mbl.edu (Karen Schwalbe)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Solar Aquatics/Living Machines
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Date: 23 Feb 1995 16:20:57 GMT
Organization: The Woods Hole Research
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <schwalbe-230295112048@evolmac7.mbl.edu>
References: <3hc5t6$1bfs@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <1995Feb13.202959.10410@es.dupont.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: evolmac7.mbl.edu

In article <1995Feb13.202959.10410@es.dupont.com>,
heldreth@esvx12.es.dupont.com (Kathleen M. Heldreth) wrote:

> In article <3hc5t6$1bfs@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, XXSR22A@prodigy.com (James Gravely) writes:
> >HELP!!!

> >I SAW A SHORT SEGMENT ON THE DISNEY CHANEL ABOUT A MAN WHO COULD REMOVE 
> >CONTAMINATES FROM WATER BY USING A SERIES OF  DIFFERENT PLANTS TO CLEAN 
> >THE WATER.  
> >
> >WHERE CAN I FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THIS?

> >-
> >  JAMES GRAVELY  XXSR22A@prodigy.com
> >
(some material snipped)

The organization doing this work is called:
	Ocean Arks International
	1 Locust Street
	Falmouth, MA  0254
	(508)-540-6801

or e-mail Beth Josephson @ bjosephs@hoh.mbl.edu
There is plenty of information available in the press, too.  Try a search
at the library on "Solar Aquatics" or "Living Machines".  

There are several facilities doing this type of remediation around the
United States.  They are great places to visit ;-).
-- 
-Karen
Woods Hole, MA
schwalbe@hoh.mbl.edu


From benbrook@hillnet.comFri Aug 25 21:27:02 1995
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Benbrook <benbrook@hillnet.com>
To: sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
Subject: The Ark

The Ark is a spinoff from the New Alchemcy Inst. run by John and nancy 
Todd, started in 1970's on Cape Cod, which does not exist anynmore.  The 
ARk was a spinoff in Prince Edward Island, and we believe it is still 
functioning and among other things, has demonstrated the economic 
viability and ecological soundness of some new type of composting 
toilet.  To get mopre info contact John or Nancy Todd in the Woods Hole, 
Mass. area.  Any phone book should do, 508 area code.  Good luck.
Article 1658 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nntp.uio.no!nntp-oslo.uninett.no!usenet
From: erling.floistad@ihb.nlh.no
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: indoor air pollution and plants
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:34:09 GMT+0200
Organization: NLH, Agricultural University of Norway
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <26k2ou$i0e@ratatosk.uninett.no>
NNTP-Posting-Host: taarn1-efh.nlh.no
X-Newsreader: IBM RN 3.8c (OS/2 2.0) bugfixed by mittelst@fh-ulm.de

In  <rise-070993100655@biosek16.uio.no>  rise@bio.uio.no (oyvind.rise) writes:
| About 10 years ago Wolverton published a paper about plants (Chlorophytum
| comosum) cleaning indoor air (formaldehyde, NOx, benzene etc.). NASA has
| also done something along the same lines. However, has there been other
| attempts at quantifying plant uptake of gaseous pollutants in indoor
| settings? 


Yes.  I know there is work going on at the University Of Oslo (Norway),
trying to do precisely this.  There is some cooperation with our div. 
of ornamentals at Agricultural University of Norway.  However, I dont think they have published anything yet, apart from some PR-
like newspaper articles which also referred the NASA work.


************************************************************************
Erling Floistad   			         e-mail: hagef@ihb.nlh.no
Ph.D. Stud.,   Dept. of Horticulture,        snail-mail: Po.Box 5022
              div. of Vegetable Growing                  N-1432 AAS
          Agricultural University of Norway              NORWAY
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone:  +47 6494 7826                               Fax: +47 6494 7802
************************************************************************


Article 20062 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!foedc
From: Friends of the Earth <foedc@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: 19 Jul 93 06:54 PDT
Subject: Re: air cleaning plants
Message-ID: <1453300270@igc.apc.org>
References: <CA9wDM.95r@sybase.com>
Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway <notes@igc.apc.org>
Lines: 6

We have some clippings which I would be happy to send to you.  Send
me your address either in conf or to my box directly.

Alex Hittle
Friends of the Earth
foedc@igc.apc.org


From CYANO@SERVMS.FIU.EDU Thu Dec  8 09:59:27 EST 1994
Article: 469 of bionet.photosynthesis
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!darwin.sura.net!lhc!biosci!SERVMS.FIU.EDU!CYANO
From: CYANO@SERVMS.FIU.EDU (JEFF ELHAI)
Newsgroups: bionet.photosynthesis
Subject: Plants that remove N/P
Date: 2 Dec 1994 15:17:37 -0800
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology
Lines: 29
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <941202181735.2040414d@servms.fiu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net

Jim Selegean wanted to know:

> -Are certain plants better at removing certain water quality parameter
>  (N,P,C)?
> -Have removal rates been established for various plants?
> -Are any plants of commercial value?

I don't know anything on the subject but you might look at the article below
describing the use of microalgae to remove N & P in effluent from power plants
(I realize these are not the type of plants that prompted Jim's question).

      Wilde EW, Benemann JR, Weissman JC, Tillett DM (1991). J Appl Phycol
            3:159-167. Cultivation of algae and nutrient removal in a waste
            heat utilization process.


John Benemann has done a lot of work looking at the commercial value of algae
to treat wastewater in a variety of settings. Jim might look up some of his
articles.

In addition, it seems to me that Elisha Tel-Or tried to commercialize Azolla
as a means of cleaning up nutrients from the effluent of power plants. I don't
know any publications that came from the project, but his address is:

      Elisha Tel-Or, Agric. Botony, Hebrew University, Rehovot 76100 Israel

I, like Jim, would like to hear about other applications.

Jeff Elhai


Article 2368 of alt.sustainable.agriculture:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oit-mail2news-gateway
From: steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: architect seeks info on ecological fishfarming
Date: 22 Feb 1994 21:41:43 -0500
Organization: sustag-public mailing list
Lines: 47
Sender: daemon@samba.oit.unc.edu
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <m0pZ8UC-000AMbC@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
References: <CL2uEw.D0u@westminster.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: samba.oit.unc.edu
Content-Type: text

Thomas--

The New Alchemy Institute ceased functions in 1991 due 
primarily to financial problems.  Just recently, New 
Alchemy publications have become available through a 
group of former New Alchemists who still live in the
area.  The Green Center can provide a list of for-sale
publications.  

Talk about a history of appropriate technology and 
alternative agriculture, New Alchemy's publications still 
provide a decent introduction to aquaculture systems, composting 
greenhouses, bioshelters, cover crops for the Northeast, etc. 
Contact:

    The Green Center
    237 Hatchville Rd.
    East Falmouth, MA  02536
    (508) 564-6301

Re: ecological fishfarming.  Some of the most advanced 
models of water purification and sustainable food production 
are the 1) solar aquatic ponds (pioneered in part by
John Todd, formerly of New Alchemy) that use plants like water
hyacinth to purify waste water and 2) recirculating hydroponic 
systems in which vegetable beds are fertigated with 
effluent from tilapia aquaculture.
 

> 
> Hi, are you involved with ecological fishfarming ? I'd be 
> interested in ecological fishfarming and waterpurification.
> Please don't hold back your most precious information.
> As a postgraduate student I'm doing a architectural project
> on fishfarming. 
> Do you know the phone or fax number of the NEW ALCHEMY INSTITUTE
> East Falmouth, Massachusetts 02536 USA ????
> Do they have an e-mail address ???
> 
> Thank you for your help!!!
> 
> You can contact me at the UoW FAX: 071-911 5190 PHONE: 071-911 5000 ext 3332
> 
> Thomas Reinke, Arch. Dip. I
> 
> 




Sat 20 Feb 93  9:10
By: ALLAN BALLIETT
Re: New Alchemy/Ocean Arks

Here's documentation from the founder himself, John Todd, that New
Alchemy is dead, but the spirit goes on living and WORKING towards a
sustainable future!

==================================================

January 1 993

Dear Friends of New Alchemy

As you know, last summer the New Alchemy Institute officially closed
its doors. You may also know, however, that neither the vision nor the
work that began there have been lost. With the founding of Ocean Arks
International in 1983. there began a new phase in the research and
implementation of the ideas that first took form at New Alchemy.

Like New Alchemy, Ocean Arks was founded by John Todd and Nancy Jack
Todd and is a nonprofit research and education organization dedicated
to the creation and dissemination of the thinking and the technologies
fundamental to a sustainable future. Drawing on what we learned of the
ecology of aquatic ecosystems at New Alchemy, we since have created a
family of living technologies that now are restoring waters polluted
by human and industrial wastes to drinking water standards.

Working through The Center for the Restoration of waters at Ocean
Arks, we have created one of the most advanced ecologically engineered
waste treatment systems in the world which, after a few years of
extensive verification, is now legally permitted in two states. We
have begun to restore a highly polluted pond in Massachusetts w ith
our new floating Living Machine, Lake Restorer 1, opening a channel
for its use on water bodies the world over. Our Providence, RI and
Marion, Me research facilities have been making ground-breaking
discoveries in purifying industrial and toxic wastes. We have
demonstrated, on a laboratory scale, that Living Machines can break
down such highly toxic wastes as those found in Chattanooga Creek, for
which we have attracted the attention of Vice President-elect Al Gore.
We have also received continuing support from Congressman Gerry Studds
and Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy and
Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, to name a few, giving us a strong
vote of encouragement with the political leaders in Washington. Our
education program is reaching professionals and students with courses
in ecological design skills, aquaculture, food production, waste
treatment and environmental repair. Recently, we were granted the
Discover Award for Technological Innovation and the Teddy Roosevelt
Conservation Award by President Bush.

We have managed not only to survive but to move ahead with these
developments during a period when the environment was a low priority
in the eyes of government and most industry. But we have done so at
the cost of incurring considerable debt believing that the ideas were
too important to let die. Now, with the renewed promise of the
incoming administration and because of your support for New Alchemy
over the years, we are again turning to you to ask you to remain a
part of keeping its mission alive.

If you were willing, each of you could help us in some way. It would
be wonderful if you would consider any of the following suggestions:

1. Contribute towards a debt reduction fund or to our general support.
2. Help us to create an endowment, which would secure a future for our
work.
3. Help us find customers/clients in industry and in various
communities who need help cleaning up pollution and repairing
environments. Living Machines can upgrade drinking water reservoirs,
restore polluted water bodies and purify wastewaters.
4. Help spread the word. Subscribe to our publication, "Annals of Earth" an
updated equivalent of the old "Journals of the New Alchemists " .

1992 was a tough year for us. Salaries weren't always paid, yet our
morale remained high. We are a committed and talented organization -
dedicated to the Earth and to the training of its stewards. We are
ready with the skills and technologies to make things happen. It is
our hope that there will be a new environmental agenda over the next
decade and we want to play a key role in it. Please help us.

Sincerely,

John Todd, president

P.S. Your contribution is tax deductible. We now accept MC/VISA and
American Express.

================================================== Annals of Earth

The exchange of ideas feeds the roots of new thought. To this end the
Center for the Restoration of Waters publishes "Annals of Earth" to
disseminate the ideas and practice of ecological sustainability
throughout the world. It seeks, through written communication, to
foster the emergence of a new global culture. Published 3 times
yearly, "Annals" has an international roster of scholarly,
philosophical and ecological writers who deal with planetary issues
from a wide range of perspectives. While "Annals" covers and
chronicles the Center's activities, it also publishes articles that
range in subject from the philosophy of ecology, basic biology, hands
on environmental projects, to the Gaia Hypothesis. Distributed
world-wide, "Annals" is an intellectual forum for the presentation of
leading edge environmental thought.

A Publication Of Ocean Arks International and the Lindisfarne
Association Volume X, Number 2, 1992


$? Contribution
$15 Student/unwaged member
$30 Individual member
$35 Canadian member
$ 40 Foreign member
$ 50 Family member
$100 Supporting member $1000 Patron member

Membership includes subscription to "Annals", course announcements and
contributes to the work of OAI. Please make checks payable to Ocean
Arks International. We now accept MC/VISA & American Express. To renew
by phone, please call 508-510-6801.

  A Publication of Ocean Arks International and The Lindisfarne
Association

  OCEAN ARKS INTERNATIONAL

 * Origin: The Twilight Clone (1:109/70.914)
Article 25759 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL


Article 25760 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: arsenic soil contaminatio
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4197.2552.0N41F04B@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 31

This message was originally addressed to Catherine Albert
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------

CA>Jim,
  >Hi, my name is Catherine.  I live in Colorado Springs, CO in a rental home a

CA>am curious about HOW TO TEST some LUMBER used for a retaining wall in the
  >backyard.  My concern is that this wood is also a defining edge of my
  >vegetable
  >garden.  Is there somewhere I could send a chunk of this wood to have it
  >analyzed?  I have no idea if it was treated lumber or not; I suspect it was.

CA>Thank you for the information...

Hi Catherine,

Try the local Agricultural extension office, the university, an
agricultural testing laboratory, or a private laboratory.  Have them
test for soil mineral content, making sure that there is a test for
copper in the bunch.  Arsenic testing is expensive.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 25th - Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Took the Dog. Dorothy.

cc: all


Article 25586 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 16:27:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 38

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Ray Foster to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber


RF>OK, a question from someone to whom this is all new: how can you tell if lum
  >has been treated with CCA?

RF>We bought a house this past summer. The previous owner had built some raised
  >gardens beds using wood. How can I tell whether this is pressure treated woo


Ray, you bring up the chief reason why I believe that arsenic amended
wood should be installed only by licensed pesticide professionals and
that its installation should be clearly identified in the deed of the
property, with full chain of custody like hazardous materials in the
commercial arena.

Aside from the distinctive green or brown tint, there really is no way
to tell.  You may try notching or scratching the wood and see if it is
still stained, since the arsenic, lead, copper, and chromium penetrate
to the core of the wood.

This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

Testing for copper is much cheaper than arsenic, if you care to have the
wood analyzed.



Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - COMPOSTING: Because a rind is a terrible thing to waste.


Article 25634 of rec.gardens:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!koriel!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!ichthous!mcgrew
From: mcgrew@ichthous.Eng.Sun.COM (Darin McGrew)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Date: 21 Jan 1994 18:10:02 GMT
Organization: Sun
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mk06jqINNkjc@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
References: <CJuG2r.FoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <36.4050.2552.0N41EEC3@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ichthous

jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>This is just one more piece of evidence why I believe the product should
>be banned.  At least the wood could be imprinted with the words
>"danger - arsenic" burned into every surface.

I think you'll have better luck getting its presence recorded on
the deed.  DIY handymen (and probably some professionals) would
try to remove the warning from visible surfaces with a plane, and
then you have toxic wood shavings in addition to the toxic
sawdust and wood scraps.

BTW, thanks for pointing out that the big problem isn't whether
or not the toxins leach into the garden soil, but what becomes of
the treated wood after its useful life.

Darin.McGrew@Eng.Sun.COM     The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth?
                             Who makes him deaf or dumb?  Who gives him sight
Soli Deo Gloria!             or makes him blind?  Is it not I, the LORD?"


Article 25575 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!psinntp!daneel!seldon!nathan
From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Number 6)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Message-ID: <1994Jan19.003211.22232@daneel.foundation.tricon.com>
Organization: Triicon Systems, Inc., Lompoc, CA
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 00:32:10 GMT
Lines: 32

I think the *best* way to get people to realize the dangers of
pressure treated lumber is the one suggested by "Mr. Compost" (sorry,
I'm in my "primitive" news reader now...so I can't get the real name).
Here in California and probably just about everywhere else, you have
to sign your life away on lead paint.  It is a requirement for most
types of loans (mostly Federal Gov't backed ones).  We had to sign so
many disclosures to buy this house it was incredible  but I was glad
that they TOLD us what we were getting into (possibly).  [We don't
have lead paint, btw].  So, a first step is getting the state or the
federal government to look at the research and then draft up a
disclosure statement that must be signed by all homeowners when
applying for the loan.  This does NOT mean that people will actually
read it, unfortunately.  But, if they sign it, and then try to sue
somebody, it'll fly back into their face for not reading it.

Also, I think all landfills that are unlined should just stop taking
the stuff.  We get all our water from the ground and I shudder to
think what the local toxic waste dump cleanup that's in progress is
finding out!  (Not to mention what Unocal Oil is dumping into our
water).

btw  does anyone know how to tell pressure treated lumber? I may have
some of that in my garden  hope not.  I don't think it is because
it's falling apart and rotting and is not all that old.  ("Railroad"
ties as an edging material).



***********************************************************************
Nathan D. Lane, VP Triicon Systems. Lompoc, CA  (805) 7331849 
NaN != 6, 6 == 1.  I am not a number, I am a free list!
I'm a programmer  my computers are more valuable than my cars.


Article 25595 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4061.2552.0N41EEDF@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
References: <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 22:50:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 153

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim

P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.  As to whether or not
arsenic is harmful, you *must* be kidding.

My problem with treated wood is its uncontrolled use, its misuse, and
its ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation
where it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not
in contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised, but people use arsenic wood
because they are too lazy to seal pine.  Arsenic wood should be sealed
anyway, but too few do it.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.
Sawdust run off has been linked to deaths of exotic fish in back yard
ponds.  Sudden kills of Koi after installing a deck or other arsenic
landscape project are being increasingly reported.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome or exposed to arsenic requiring medical attention from arsenic
fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and outdoor fires.  I have
copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects of arsenic poisoning
and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, which even
in small quantities can cause skin cancer.  The doubling of the rate
of skin cancer (albeit coincidentally) parallels the time period when
arsenic wood was introduced to the environment.  The pathways of
exposure can come from working with the wood without gloves or
protective clothing or getting the dust on the body. It can also come
from walking on treated wood with bare feet or mouthing the wood,
especially cut ends and nicks. Ash contact with the skin, even from a
fire miles away can cause skin cancer.

Children playing in the dirt where arsenic sawdust was left years
previously can be a means of arsenic exposure.  The arsenic levels under
treated wood play equipment have been tested at 200 times background
levels.  The documentation on the use of treated wood tell users to wear
protective clothing, shower after working, vacuum the sawdust, refrain
from smoking and eating, and to send the scraps to the landfill.  How
often are buyers give the instructions for safe use?  How many follow
the recommended practices? Hardly any, which is why I call it a product
out of control.

P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.  The treated wood industry has repeatedly
engaged me on other Bulletin Boards in arguing the issue of
leachability, of which I concede their points.  Frankly I am surprised
they are not here on rec.gardens with their party line of "no leach in
soul equals safe" argument.  My argument is not leachability and uptake
by plants, it is the issue of the widespread abuse of the product that I
am concerned about.

P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust, waste, and ash.   The rate of
decomposition of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been
on the market for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the
past fifteen. The wood has yet to rot to the point of being a leaching
problem...... yet.  No one denies that it is a matter of time when it is
a leaching problem.  Then we will have arsenic on root vegetables,
children eating arsenic contaminated soil, children playing in arsenic
rotted wood, airborne arsenic dust, arsenic silt run off and so forth.
It will be a major problem around the year 2025.  A sad legacy because
people won't take the effort to seal pine when building decks, in my
opinion.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site. I say to stop its uncontrolled sale and reserve its
use for applications that are demonstrated to require a biocide treated
wood.  Then to track its location and ultimate disposal, just like any
other biohazard is managed in commercial use.  The household exemption
for hazardous waste can no longer be swept under the rug.  What goes
into the environment has to be accounted for.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - It is not logical, but it is often true.


Article 25581 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!news
From: os2user@brdiller.houston.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <CJwHpI.3tz2@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 23:39:18 GMT
Lines: 95
Reply-To: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com (Barry Diller)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <2gvb3a$q0k@news.u.washington.edu> <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>
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In <2hjpvk$pvc@netnews.upenn.edu>, pauls@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Richard J. Pauls) writes:
>In article <36.3795.2552.0N41E078@gcbb.granite.mn.org> jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) writes:
>
>>...
>>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
>>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
>>ensure safe ultimate disposal.
>>
>>How about it, rec.garden members?
>>
>>Mr Compost~~~
>>
>>Jim McNelly~~~
>
>Jim
>
>I am very concerned about arsenic poisoning, and I plan to remove the treated
>wood from around my gardens this spring just to be safe.  That is, just
>IN CASE it actually is harmful.  I can due without the wood, so why take
>any chance is my position.

I think that this pretty well summarized my opinion on this matter until I
read Jim McNelly's post, which you've partially quoted above.

>
>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
>harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
>So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.

I think you're missing what I considered to be Mr. McNelly's main point:

    "Properly processed treated wood does not leach arsenic under
     normal conditions. How we, the public and the environmental
     community, focused on this one narrow issue and missed the
     rest of the story, the story about the sawdust, the scraps, the
     ash, and the ultimate disposal is shameful."

Now, we can all argue here about how much arsenic actually leaches
into our garden soil from CCA lumber under different conditions, and
we can talk about what PPM of arsenic in our garden soil might be an
intolerable amount, and so forth - and those would probably be some
very useful discussions - but the larger issue is what is to become of
all our CCA lumber when we're finished with it.

Is CCA lumber going to be the 'asbestos' of the 1990's or 2000's?

>Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
>lumber?  The warning label that comes on the wood is not conclusive.
>In reading this group, there seem to be more posts
>saying the wood is ok than there are saying it is harmful.  Without
>conclusive evidence from multiple sources I do not believe we or any
>other group will have a chance of removing this poison from common
>houshold use in decks and gardens.  I heard about the article in  Organic
>Gardening, but have not yet read it.  I also heard that it was not
>quantitative.  I want more than just scare tactics from the environmentally
>extreme.  I want the facts.  Is this wood dangerous or not?  Until the
>facts are revealed, I will not be using treated lumber just in case.
>If there is so much concern about this stuff why arn't there more tests?
>I want answers like this:
>
>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
>of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
>soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the vegetables.
>Then publish results:
>

 <deletions>

>
>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
>harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

And if the levels of leached arsenic proved acceptable to you, will you
then go out and buy a couple of tons of CCA lumber and place it in your
backyard?

Are you prepared to handle the lumber properly during construction? What
are you going to do with the sawdust and scraps - send them to your
local landfill? Burn them? And what will you do in 20 years when the
lumber has turned to mush, or in 5 years when you decide to remodel or
re-landscape?

Please re-read Jim McNelly's note. Arsenic 'leaching' is not CCA
lumber's biggest liability.

>
>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?
>
>
>
>Rich

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry R. Diller                              IBM Federal Sector Sevices Company
EMail address: brdiller@vnet.ibm.com         Houston, Texas USA



Article 25621 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4079.2552.0N41EF4E@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 00:02:00 +0600
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Lines: 119

Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumb

Pauls@Pender.Ee.Upenn.Edu to All - Wednesday, January 19th:
 Discussing: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber

 >jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim McNelly) writes:

P>>...
 >>I say it is time to blow the whistle on arsenic in the back yard and put
 >>a stop to it once and for all, and dedicate our environmental efforts to
 >>ensure safe ultimate disposal.

P>Jim


P>I still have not seen any conclusive evidence that treated wood is
 >harmful.  There is evidence that arsenic leaches out into the soil.
 >So what?  I have seen no evidence that it is in harmful quantities.
 >Can you site any conclusive experiments to support you position on CCA
 >lumber?

Paul,

I believe your question is valid.  Due to the lack of evidence that I
believe is substantive, I have not made the claim that arsenic leaching
from treated wood to the soil is a biohazard.  Organic Gardening and
other sources may make that claim, but I have not.

My problem with treated wood is is uncontrolled use, its misuse, and its
ultimate disposal.  The uncontrolled use problem is the situation where
it is used for building decks and other outdoor applications not in
contact with the soil.  Conventional treating of pine with water
sealants is adequate without adding an arsenic load to the biosphere.
Treated wood is designed for direct soil contact where the soil is
moist.  Other applications are not advised.

One misuse is in its manufacture, of which the 400 manufacturing sites
in the US are largely unregulated.  Many are Superfund sites waiting to
happen.  Another misuse is the spreading of sawdust and shavings into
the soil.  These *do* leach arsenic, especially as sawdust floats in
stormwater runoff.  Arsenic is being found in ponds and surface water.

The worst misuse is from burning arsenic treated wood scraps and arsenic
in ash from house fires.  This form of arsenic is no longer bound in the
wood fiber and is highly volatile at 3000 parts per million.  Arsenic
ash is a class 1 carcinogen as rated by the EPA.  By law, arsenic ash
must be sent to a hazardous waste disposal site.  Currently it is not.
I call that misuse.

I have documentation from the Minnesota Hazardous Waste Management
Department of 24 dairy cows killed from eating arsenic ash from
uncontrolled burning of treated lumber.  I have news reports of three
other cattle poisonings, and several cases of deer-kills from eating
arsenic ash.  There are three documented cases of families being
overcome from arsenic fumes from burning treated wood in fireplaces and
outdoor fires.  I have copies of medical textbooks outlining the effects
of arsenic poisoning and treatment, of which diarrhea and neural damage
come from ingestion.

The most significant danger to humans is arsenic on the skin, even in
small quantities which the main symptom is skin cancer.  This is caused
from working with the wood without gloves or protective clothing and
getting the dust on the body.  It can also come from walking on treated
wood with bare feet.  Ash contact with the skin, even from a fire miles
away can cause skin cancer.


P>Garden built with x square feet of CCA treated wood in various stages
 >of decomposition:  new, old, severly decayed, chips/sawdust.  Then test
 >soil at various levels and distances from the wood and test the
 >vegetables.

The data I have seen has shown me that the arsenic is not leaching into
the soil, and the pathway of ingestion is difficult to substantiate.  If
anyone has evidence to the contrary, I have yet to see it.  Until I see
firm documentation, I will not claim that arsenic leaching from properly
treated wood is the problem.


P>This combined with a clear explaination of what levels are considered
 >harmful to humans in food would be conclusive.

The harmful levels in food are not the issue as I mentioned previously.
The harm is in uncontrolled sawdust and ash.   The rate of decomposition
of treated wood is understood, but the wood has only been on the market
for about fifty years, with 90% of total sales within the past fifteen.

P>Has such a test been conducted?  If not, Why not?

The tests have been conducted, and they show the arsenic not to be
leaching.  But the wood *will* eventually rot, and then the arsenic will
start leaching.  The treated lumber industry only gives the wood a 60
year life expectancy in the soil.  Which means in 60 years, the next
generation will be dealing with disposing of leaching, rotting, arsenic
contaminated wood mould rather than stable boards.

Again my point of last week is to identify the location of the wood and
ensure that it is well marked and not accidentally removed and disposed
of improperly.  When it does age, let's use the figure of 40 years, it
should be removed from the soil before it rots and taken to a hazardous
waste disposal site.

I do not consider myself to be an environmental extremist and work with
scientific principles regarding metal accumulations in soil on a regular
basis in my professional capacity as an organic matter management
specialist.  Arsenic levels have become a concern in wood scrap grinding
operations as levels over 11 PPM are not allowed to go into the soil in
compost, sludge, or fuel.  I can document many cases of wood scrap
recyclers having to send tens of thousands of tons of wood chips to
landfills because of treated wood contamination


Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 19th - Another conundrum to ponder


Article 25573 of rec.gardens:
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Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
From: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron)
Date: 19 Jan 1994 11:32:20 -0800
Reply-To: heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
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In <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> Bob Klebba
  <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu> writes:

>In article <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> Schooder,
>bene@u.washington.edu writes:
>>I read an article in Organic Gardening...a couple months ago,
>>can't find the issue right now...that said more nasties DO leach
>>out of PT wood than the industry would like you to know.

The "more than the industry would like you to know" phrase was Schooder's,
it's not in the article.

>How much is more than we would like to know?  Is it 1 ppb, 5 ppb or is it
>a ppm?

It looks like the numbers are in the low ppm to very high ppb range. 
(They aren't directly stated but can be inferred from other numbers in
the article.)

>        I don't want to defend the wood products industry, but in my
>experience, OG isn't known for their absolute quantitative accuracy.  How
>much can leach out before we need to be concerned vis a vis all the other
>pollutants we expose ourselves to everyday?

I've typed in some excerpts (about half) of the Organic Gardening
article, attached below.  I'm glad I haven't built my raised beds yet.

Matt Heffron

----------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from the Organic Gardening article:
"TREATED WOOD:  Yes, it's still toxic!"
by Cheryl Long and Mike McGrath
(Jan 94, pp 71-74)

Recently, a Texas count extension agent pronounced
pressure-treated wood safe to use in raised bed gardens. 
Newspapers, industry magazines such as _Nursery News_, and
even another major American gardenign magazine all reported
this finding not only as truth, but as the final word on
the subject.

   ...Many readers have written to ask if we have changed
our opinion on treated wood and/or to comment on this new
report from Texas.

   No, we haven't changed our opinion and that Texas report
was not a true scientific study.  It was a half thought-out
experiment conducted by a local extension agent and an
extension vegetable specialist after gardeners in their
region became concerned following our reports about the
dangers of using "pressure-treated" wood (which is actually
made with two heavy metals and arsenic, not "pressure" as
the companies that produce this stuff would like you to
think).

   Anyway, these two guys took 15 soil samples from raised
bed gardens framed with CCA (chromated copper arsenic)
treated wood and had them tested.  Despite the fact that
two different labs found measurable amounts of arsenic in
every instance, these two rocket scientists still concluded
that the tests had somehow "confirmed that arsenic was not
leaching from the timbers."

   ...In a _real_ study, the arsenic levels found in the
treated-wood soil would have been compared to the amount
(if any) of arsenic found in similar soil that wasn't
surrounded by treated wood.  All they _can_ say for sure
from their limited testing is that there was definately
arsenic in every soil sample taken near treated wood.  How
they determined that the arsenic did not come from the
treated wood is beyond us.
   ...

   We, on the other hand, have continued our research on
"pressure-treated" wood and are even _more_ convinced than
ever that this stuff should not be used in organic gardens.
Here are excerpts from some of the additional scientific
studies we've reviewed recently:  

* "This study suggests that leaching of metals from treated
wood in acidic waters (natural or resulting from acidic
precipitation) _[Editor's Note: acid rain]_ may present an
unacceptable environmental risk...Leaching of metals from
weathered wood found to be very similar to that from new
wood...Results from this study suggest that organic acids
may cause greater leaching from CCA-treated wood than
mineral acids...Organic acids are present in...soils, bogs
and wetland areas."
-- Warner and Solomon, _Environmental Toxicology and
Chemistry_, 1990

* "It has been shown that organic acids may cause
significant leaching of all components of CCA...CCA-treated
jack pine blocks exposed to vegetable compost had greater
leaching losses (12 to 13 percent CCA leached) than matched
samples in distilled water (4 to 6 percent leached),
exterior weathering (2 to 8 percent) or exterior soil burial
(1 to 6 percent.)"
-- Cooper and Ung, _Forest Products Journal_, Sept. 1992

...

* "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
Norwegian requirements."
-- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
Preservation, 1987

* "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
leached from piers and bulkheads."
-- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
1991

...

Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
much._

...

   Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
_1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
arsenic."

   When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)

   New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
water.)

   ...

   We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
list if you want to look them up yourself.

   ...

   So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.

   Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
"wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
cloth afterwards.

----------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Matt Heffron                      heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com
Beckman Instruments, Inc.         voice: (714) 961-3128
2500 N. Harbor Blvd. MS X-10, Fullerton, CA 92634-3100
I don't speak for Beckman Instruments unless they say so.


Article 25673 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!owlnet.rice.edu!segura
From: segura@owlnet.rice.edu (Chad James Segura)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
Message-ID: <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Sender: news@rice.edu (News)
Organization: Rice University
References: <2h7pm3$dvj@news.u.washington.edu> <1994Jan17.153042.14505@nicmad.uucp> <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Lines: 103

In article <2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com>, heffron@falstaff.css.beckman.com (Matt Heffron) writes:


A lot deleted.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> * "Even after two years of exposure to rain and snow, the
|> leaching of chromium, copper and arsenic from CCA-treated
|> wood roofing is too high to allow collected water from such
|> roofing to be used as drinking water according to the
|> Norwegian requirements."
|> -- Evans, International Working Group on Wood
|> Preservation, 1987

I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

|> 
|> * "The amount of arsenic alone that leached from a
|> 2-by-2-inch piece of wood in one week in our studies is
|> enough...to kill a mouse...Just think how much is being
|> leached from piers and bulkheads."
|> -- Sanders, Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia,
|> 1991

Enough to kill a mouse, but in what concentration. Pure?
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> Once again: The simple truth is that _there is no question
|> that chromium, copper and arsenic all leach from treated
|> wood--even the treated wood industry itself admits that
|> much._

They do?  Of course, there is some leaching, but it is the
amount that matters and not that it does.

|> 
|> ...
|> 
|>    Garn Wallace, Ph.D., a biochemist at Wallace
|> Laboratories in El Segundo, Calif., who with his fater has
|> been studying the effects of heavy metals on soils and
|> plants for over 20 years, explains that levels as low as 
|> _1 part per million_ soluble arsenic (which is equal to
|> about 20 ppm "total arsenic") have been reported to be
|> toxic to some plants. ...Unfortunately, he explains, "the
|> organic acids in compost greatly increase the solubility of
|> arsenic."
|> 
|>    When we asked Dr. Wallace his opinion of the Texas "CCA
|> is Safe" report, he stated that some of the arsenic levels
|> they reported finding could be toxic to plants and added
|> that "if these levels were found in my garden, I would
|> definitely be concerned _and_ I sould certainly avoid
|> eating root vegetables grown in those soils."  (Arsenic
|> accumulation in plants occurs mainly in the roots.)
|> 
|>    New data shows that even _very_ low levels of arsenic in
|> drinking water can cause severla kinds of cancer; and so
|> the EPA is currently deciding how much to _lower_ the
|> currently limit of 50 parts per _billion_ for arsenic in
|> drinking water.  (That's right--the "harmless" levels found
|> in soil by the Texas guys were hundreds of times higher
|> that the levels that the EPA is now saying are too high for
|> water.)

That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
I do not eat soil.

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    We have now cited two dozen scientific studies and
|> government reports that document the dangers of arsenic and
|> the leaching of all three toxins from treated wood.  Send
|> us a stamped, self-addressed envelope and we'll send you a
|> list if you want to look them up yourself.

And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
didn't match your conclusions?

|> 
|>    ...
|> 
|>    So what should _you_ do next time somebody tells you
|> treated wood is safe?  Take a simple cotton cloth--say
|> their handkerchief--and rub it over a piece of treated
|> wood; a raised bed timper or a piece of playground
|> equipment that a child may touch a hunderd times in an hour.
|> 
|>    Show the person that cloth and explain that it now has
|> detectable levels of arsenic on it.  Who says?  Both
|> American (U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commision) _and_
|> Canadian (Health and Welfare Canada and Geological Survey
|> of Canada) government researchers who performed this simple
|> "wipe test" themselves on treated-wood playground equipment
|> of varying ages.  They never failed to find arsenic on the
|> cloth afterwards.


Chad


Article 25699 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ajh@diamond.idbsu.edu (Andrew Huang)
Subject: Re: Pressure Treated Lumber (YIKES)
In-Reply-To: segura@owlnet.rice.edu's message of Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:38:22 GMT
Message-ID: <AJH.94Jan23131419@diamond.idbsu.edu>
Sender: usenet@guinness.idbsu.edu (Usenet News mail)
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	<2hk1s4$ckv@falstaff.css.beckman.com> <CJzvw1.70C@rice.edu>
Date: 23 Jan 94 13:14:19
Lines: 21

Chad James Segura) writes:
   I wouldn't drink water from any roof of any type.

In Bermuda, you have no choice.  Building codes _require_ the
inclusion of cisterns that collect rain water from the roofs for
domestic use.

   That amount in soil is not the same as that amount in water.
   I do not eat soil.

Yes, but your children and their friend do.  And if you garden, you
will get it on your skin, which turns out to be a good way to absorb
As.

   And were there any which you ignored, because their findings
   didn't match your conclusions?

Don't needle the poster - the posting was clearly marked as an excerpt
from Organic Gardening.

-andy



From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:05:59 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:45:44 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PT Lumber
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.4196.2552.0N41F04A@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 00:40:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Info Center 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 102

This message was originally addressed to Karen Ann Woodfork
and a carbon copy was sent to you.
                    ----------------------------------------
Karen wrote;

   >I don't need to be convinced not to put arsenic in my back yard,
   >but I was wondering if you could give me the references for those
   >facts and figures you gave about the hazards of PT sawdust and
   >the eventual disposal problems of PT wood.

My source(s) include the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency Hazardous
Waste Section, the tests of the Benton County Solid Waste District
(Foley Minnesota), and independent laboratory analysis conducted under
the supervision of the MNPCA.  I have also provided several samples to
independent laboratories on my own and have confirmed the arsenic and
lead levels.  The 21 dead cows were verified by the State Veterinarian,
actually ordered to be destroyed by him due to the diagnosis of arsenic
poisoning and arsenic in the milk.

The cases of humans overcome by arsenic smoke I have from conducting
an electronic search of various national newspapers for the word
"arsenic".  You can imagine sifting through the reports on the reported
poisoning of President Zachary Taylor and reviews of various
presentations of the play, "Arsenic and old Lace".

The EPA standards on arsenic levels in compost and sludge are from the
EPA 503 sludge rules (11 PPM vs 3000 PPM in PTwood) which are published
in the Federal Register and available from your regional EPA office.
The toxicity reactions of arsenic, symptoms, and treatment are from any
good medical encyclopedia, my copy from toxicity reference documents
used at the Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota.

You can also find a copy of "Arsenic, Chromium, and Copper Poisoning
form Burning Treated Wood" in "The New England Journal of Medicine" June
2, 1983 which reports the effects of arsenic poisoning in a family
exposed to burning arsenic (treated) wood in the fireplace. According to
the three doctors at the University of Wisconsin, the family had
"symptoms of conjunctivitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sensory
hyperesthesia of the arms and legs, muscle cramps, dermatitis of over
the arms and legs and soles of the feet, nosebleeds, ear infections,
blackouts and seizures, gastrointestinal disturbances, and severe
alopecia."

"Investigation revealed the presence of high amounts of arsenic in the
hair of the parents (12 to 87 PPM; normal less than .65) levels in the
fingernails 100 to 5,000 ppm; normal .9)  Samples of dust in the home
revealed levels of arsenic up to 2,000 ppm."

You can look at an article called "The Phone Poles that Will Not Die"
from "MSW Management" Nov/Dec 1992.  Check also "Env Pollution" 14.213
26 by C. Grant and A.J. Dobbs "The growth and metal content of plants
grown in soil contaminated by a copper chromium arsenic wood
preservative".  I also have references (Woodson 1971, Chisolm 1972, Hess
and Blanchar 1977) that arsenic at 2500 PPM is a complete soil sterilant
and that sensitive plants show phytotoxicity  from 1 PPM to 50 PPM if the
arsenic is in an extractable form.

Arsenic reacts with plants being substituted for phosphorous (Asher and
Reay 1979) and its effects can be limited by supplemental applications
of phosphate.

I would like to try to
   >convince someone not to use any more of the stuff for picnic
   >tables and the like and I need cold hard facts!

I believe that it is nearly impossible to convince people of the
biohazard of treated lumber, which is the major reason why I am calling
for its removal from public use.  They seem to refuse to believe that
the words "treated" or "pressure" means arsenic, or believe that arsenic
is indeed a poison.  People simply want to believe that since the
product is at the lumber yard, it is the same as regular lumber.  One
neighbor I tried to keep from burning scraps insisted that the wood was
"salted" and that salt was "OK".

KAW>I had always been concerned about the problem of leaching because
   >of the O.G. articles, but now I am more concerned about the vast
   >quantities of this stuff being used for non-gardening structures
   >-
   >(kids jungle-gyms, decks, etc.) .... I need to convince my
   >neighbor not to put the scraps in the "burn pile" -

There is an architect named Cameron Duncan who has led a "one man" fight
against treated lumber in school play equipment.  He has been
intimidated, threatened, slandered, and has had lost business as a
result of his efforts.  There has been virtually no support for his
efforts aside from the National Coalition against the Misuse of
Pesticides, which will provide information at a fee. Their number is
202-543-5450.

 KAW>Your help is greatly appreciated! >-Karen

I am taking the liberty of posting this note on the public conference.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim McNelly~~~
Granite Information Service 612-654-8372-HST 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * January 24th - I may not act wisely, but at least I act.

cc: ALL

From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:34 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:31:28 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber

Article 15654 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nwnexus!ole!griff
From: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Subject: Pressure treated lumber repost
Message-ID: <1993Apr15.072417.6622@ole.cdac.com>
Sender: griff@ole.cdac.com (Mark Griffin)
Organization: Cascade Design Automation, Bellevue, WA
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 07:24:17 GMT
Lines: 151

This is a repost of an article I read a while ago on this subject that
seemed so well documented that it was hard to ignore.  I got tweaked
into reposting it after reading someone getting flamed about using
good 'ol CCA40 by a bozo that seemed to not take much of anything
seriously.

Hope it helps whoever requested it.

griff@cdac.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This was posted in misc.consumers.house a while ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: bellas@ttidca.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.med,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hazards of arsenic in pressure-treated wood used in play equipment
Date: 9 Aug 90 17:58:28 GMT
Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica

In article <76@towernet.UUCP> mcg@rigel.uucp (22630-M C Germain(1772)L999) writes:
>
>
>A group of us are building a playground set and the use of pressure-treated
>wood had been suggested. I recall a that demonstrated health hazard existed do
>to the arsenic and chromium compounds used, both from physical contact of wood 
>surfaces and from subsequent leaching of arsenic and chromium-containing  into 
>the immediate soil. My concern is that small children, playing on the 
>playground set, would most certainly come into contact with these compounds, 
>may put fingers into their mouths, or have snacks without washing up prior to 
>eating. 
>
>I'm looking for papers and, or other info in the scientific literature which
>discusses this issue. I'm proposing to use untreated wood, but to finish it
>with a high quality wood preservitive, such as Thompsons. I'd like to present
>my case from a position of substantive knowledge.


  The most common preservatives are creosote, pentachlorophenol and
inorganic arsenic salts.  The first two are sold as paints for home 
application, while the third is used primarily in commercial "pressure
treated" wood.
  The terms pressure treated and preserved seem innocuous enough, but
the chemicals involved are potent pesticides formulated to repel termites,
bacteria and fungi for decades.  Although homeowners want their playsets to
last, the thought of children playing on poisoned wood is repugnant.  It is 
not surprising, then, that as wood gained popularity as a play structure
materiel, preservatives came under close scrutiny.  The chemicals are
practical and convenient, but are they safe?
  Ultimately all preservatives pose some risk, although the health hazard
varies from potentially serious to negligible.  Creosote, the smelly black
goo that is smeared on railroad ties and telephone poles is the oldest
industrial wood preservative and has been in use for almost 150 years.
In laboratory animals it causes skin irritation, cancer and genetic damage;
in humans, it has been linked to skin cancer and causes eye and skin 
irritations, dermatitis and burns.  It remains potent for years, moving
easily through the wood to affect the soil - and the skin and lungs of
anyone who touches it or breathes its vapors.
  Pentachlorophenol (PCP) is a cleaner alternative to creosote, but is
equally suspect from a health standpoint.  A member of the same chemical 
family as 2,4,5-T, it contains dioxins and has caused cancer and birth
defects in laboratory animals as well as short term effects such as
skin, eye, nose and throat irritations.  It is easily inhaled and absorbed
through the skin and continues to give off toxic vapors for as long as seven
years.  The EPA controls the use of both PCP and creosote and recommends
sealing any wood that has been contaminated by these preservatives with two
coats of urethane, shellac or latex epoxy enamel (shellac is inappropriate
for play structures for it is slippery when wet).
  The pressure treated wood sold in lumber yards is preserved with inorganic
arsenic compounds, either chromated copper arsenic (CCA) or ammoniacal
copper arsenate (ACA).  CCA was developed by Karl Hienrick Wolman in 1913
(hence the term Wolmanized) and has been used for 50 years as an inexpensive
alternate to creosote.  Associated with rats and lace trimmed old ladies
diabolically doing in unsuspecting boarders, "arsenic" strikes a note of
uneasiness in most people, but it is a common element in the environment.
The form of arsenic used in treated wood is the pentavalent state - the
same that is found in shrimp, mushrooms, rice and sardines.  In laboratory 
animals, inorganic arsenic compounds can cause cancer, birth defects and
genetic mutations, as well as headaches, dizziness and muscle spasms.  But,
unlike PCP and creosote, the arsenic preservatives bind tightly to the wood
fibers.  Studies show that the chemicals do not migrate to the surrounding
soil and plant tissue and are not absorbed through human skin.  The EPA
concluded that pressure treated wood is "safe for frequent contact because
absorption through the skin is negligible."
  The preservative sometimes leaves a bloom of chemical residue on the lumber,
and while children cannot absorb the arsenic by directly touching it, their
fingers often end up in their mouths.  To assess this danger, the California
State Department of Health conducted a study in which researchers repeatedly
licked their hands after rubbing them over treated wood surfaces.  After 
several days of testing, their urine showed no increase of arsenic even
though the measuring device was sensitive enough to detect the effects of
a single sardine.  The authors of `Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment' concluded that kids have as much chance
of getting skin cancer from the CCA-treated play equipment as they do from
playing in the sun.
  CCA is probably more of a health risk to parents than to their children
since minute amounts of preservative laced sawdust may be inhaled or 
swallowed during construction.  Wear a dust mask when sawing or machining
arsenic-preserved wood, and do the work outdoors to avoid contaminating
indoor air with preservative dust.  Because incineration of treated wood
releases arsine, an extremely poisonous gas, wood scraps should never be
burned; bury them or take them to an approved dump site.
  Pressure treating the wood does not inject preservatives right to the core
of the lumber; thus, drilled or cut surfaces have to be brushed with at
least two coats of liquid preservative.  Wear rubber gloves during these 
applications, avoid dripping the chemical on plants, and wash hands 
thoroughly after any skin contact to remove any residue.  After the 
structure is built, hose it down with soap and water to remove any surface 
deposits of chemicals.
  Though these three account for the bulk of preservatives sold there are
alternatives: low toxicity preservatives such as copper and zinc napthanate,
copper-8-quinolinolate, polybase, bis[tributyltin]oxide (TBTO), and 
TBTO/polybase.  These are not known carcinogens, are not herbicidal or 
poisonous in the concentrations used for preserving wood and are relatively
stable.  All effectively prevent damage from mold, mildew and rot by keeping 
the wood dry enough to discharge fungi and bacteria.  Copper napthanate, the
active ingredient in Cuprinol, has been on the market the longest (1948).
Often used to treat lumber for greenhouse growing beds, copper napthanate
is the only one of the above chemicals rated to withstand constant ground
contact.  Because it can be difficult to paint over and must be reapplied
if the wood cracks, it is better to use copper napthanate below ground, and
use zinc napthanate or one of the other water-repellant finishes above ground.
These chemicals are not, however, sufficient to protect wood against termites.
Termites feast on copper napthanate as readily as they do cedar, leaving CCA
treated wood as the only alternative for areas with termite problems.

I hope this has helped.

			-Pete-

References:
California State Department of Health - "Evaluation of Risk to Children Using
	Arsenic-Treated Playground Equipment'
Canadian Institute of Child Health - "Moving and Growing"
Home Playgrounds - Merilyn Mohr - Camden House

Disclaimer:These are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect 
           the opinions of Citicorp or it's management.
*Batteries not included, void where prohibited, discontinue reading if a
 rash develops.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- 
* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* Path:{philabs|csun|psivax}!ttidca!bellas  or  bellas@ttidca.tti.com      *
-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                "Never trust a man who doesn't play golf."                 |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
...........................griff@ole.cdac.com................................



 


From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:06:58 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:32:11 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: ptlumber.warning.new

Article 14611 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!caen!destroyer!iunet!hal9k!jim.mcnelly
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: raised beds
Message-ID: <1878.104.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us>
Date: 16 Mar 93 16:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: HAL 9000 BBS, W-NET HQ, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Reply-To: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jim Mcnelly) 
Lines: 38

To: daoffer@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Debora Offer)
From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us
Date: 15 Mar 93 12:38:40

DO>rd Lauria) writes:
DO>        >I am planning to build some raised beds for my garden.  It seems
DO>        >smart to use pressure treated wood to protect from rot, but it seem
DO>        >I remember seeing something awhile back that this was bad because
DO>        >the chemicals could leach into the soil and then into the plants.
DO>        >
DO>        >Is this true?  What have others done?  Not use PT wood?  Line the
DO>        >bed with plastic?

Pressure treated lumber, or Cromated Copper Arsenate, CCA contains over
3000 PPM arsenic and over 1000 PPM lead. The EPA sludge rules set the
acceptable limit for arsenic at 11 PPM and lead at 250. While it is
generally true that arsenic does not leach out of properly treated wood,
the sawdust is rarely vacuumed and disposed and it can run off into
surface water and permanently contaminate the soil. Improperly treated
wood can contain live aresenic crystals and the brochure that is
SUPPOSED to be handed out every time any CCA treated wood is sold warns
about contacting the wood with skin, as arsenic is a severe carcinogen,
notably for skin cancer. The info can be acquired from the Treated Wood
Assn at 800-241-0240. The scraps should NEVER be burned as both fumes
and ash are highly toxic. Currently, there is NO acceptable disposal
option for treated lumber, and the product does eventually decompose,
leaving its metals in the soil.

Jim the Compost Man~~~~~
---
 . SLMR 2.0 . ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS...
 . QNet3. . * <W-NET> * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST
                                                                              
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+----------------------------+-------------+--------+--------------------+
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From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 17:07:21 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:36:32 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: pt-lumber.newinfo

Article 233 of triangle.gardens:
Newsgroups: triangle.gardens
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!math.ncsu.edu!crsc
From: crsc@math.ncsu.edu (CRSC Account)
Subject: Re: Cold Frame Materials Question
Message-ID: <1993Dec14.142015.25464@ncsu.edu>
Summary: Don't use treated wood!
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 14:20:15 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <CHzBr7.58K@unx.sas.com> sasbaa@fang.unx.sas.com (Anne Albright) writes:
>
>        Does anybody know what the considerations are for choosing a 
>type of wood to use for a cold frame (that will be used for vegetables)?
>
>        I am interested in what preservatives can be used on the
>wood, if any, that won't cause a problem leaching into the soil or with
>fumes being absorbed by the plants. Is treated wood ok? Is it ok to
>use varnish? What can I put on untreated wood that would be ok? 
>
>        Thanks a lot.

Check out the latest copy of Organic Gardening for the most thorough discussion
I've yet seen regarding the use of pressure-treated wood for gardening. 
Although they didn't discuss alternatives in this article, (I think they did
in an article earlier in the year) I won't be using treated wood in any 
projects in my garden unless they will be completely sealed - painted or 
waterproofed.  They cite research that shows that contact with acidic
organics like compost, speeds the leaching of the chemicals into the soil.
One of the chemicals involved is arsenic; it can be absorbed by plants
and is particularly concentrated in the roots. I don't know if varnish is
ok for plants, but it probably would be a good way to seal the wood and
prevent chemical leaching. For other possible wood to use, you might consider
cedar (I think it has similar properties to redwood, which is about the
only wood used in outdoor projects in CA).

-- Lisa Becker




 

Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?

                Aquaculture information resources on ALF
                ------------------------------------------


Another document available:
AQUALIST.TXT     3695  10-23-90  Aquaculture Info Ctr Publist


===========================================================================
                   LIST OF KEY NAL PERSONNEL AND SERVICES
===========================================================================
   Aquaculture IC                  Debbie Hanfman        344-3704   AGS3091
Aquaculture Information Center

     Subject Coverage:  Culture of aquatic plants and animals in
     freshwater, brackish, and marine environments. Examples
     include:  catfish farming; oyster culture; freshwater prawn
     culture; tilapia culture; salmon ranching; and trout
     farming. Subjects related to aquaculture, such as pond
     management, cage culture, recirculating systems, diseases,
     and water quality are also covered. Staff of the Center also
     handle requests on eel culture; Spirulina farming; and
     aquatic snail and turtle cultivation, but not terrestrial
     culture. The "fisheries industry" (such as ocean fishing
     harvests) is not considered a part of the Aquaculture
     Information Center's coverage.

     Coordinator:  Deborah Hanfman, 301-344-3704

        Aquaculture Information Center
        Coordinator:   Debbie Hanfman
                       Room l09C
                       (30l) 344-3704
AQUACULTURE
-----------
Algae and Biotechnology.  Ann Townsend Young.  February 1990.  3 pp.  AIC
Series no. 1.

Aquaculture:  A Guide to Federal Government Programs.  Prepared by the Joint
Subcommittee on Aquaculture, in cooperation with the National Agricultural
Library.  November 1987.  34 pp.

Aquaculture for Youth and Youth Educators.  Eileen McVey.  July 1989.  16
pp.  (Aqua-Topic Series)

Aquaculture Genetics and Breeding:  National Research Priorities.  Prepared
by USDA Cooperative State Research Service, Office of Aquaculture.  March
1988.  Vol. I, 56 pages.  Vol. II, 61 pp.

Aquaculture In the Caribbean Basin:  A Bibliography (1970-1988).  Prepared
by Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt,
National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS);
Carol Watts, NESDIS; Dallas Alson, Caribbean Aquaculture Association.
More [Y]es,N)o,C)ont,A)bort,J)ump! y


Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 71.  September 1988.  71
pp.

Aquaculture In the Northeast Pacific:  A Bibliography.  Prepared by Deborah
T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Eileen M. McVey, Aquaculture
Information Center; Steven J. Tibbitt, National Environmental Satellite,
Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); Marilyn Quin, Coastal Oregon Marine
Experiment Station, Oregon State University, Hatfield Marine Science Center
Library, Newport, Oregon 97365; Carol Watts, NESDIS.  Bibliographies and
Literature of Agriculture No. 98.  October 1989.

Culture of Striped and Hybrid Striped Bass.  Eileen McVey.  April 1990.  28
pp.  (Aqua-Topics Series)

Eels.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  8 pp.  AIC Series no. 5.

Paddlefish.  Deborah T. Hanfman.  March 1990.  5 pp.  AIC Series no. 2.
The Potentials of Aquaculture:  An Overview and Bibliography.  Prepared by
Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt, National
Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); and Carol
Watts (NESDIS).  October 1989.  Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture
No. 90. 73 pp.
Practical Aquaculture Literature II:  A Bibliography.  Eileen M. McVey,
Deborah T. Hanfman, Mona F. Smith, and Ann Townsend Young.  June 1989.
Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 75.  175 pp.
Raising Snails.  Sheldon Cheney.  SRB 88-04.  March 1988.  16 pp.
Seafood Safety and Standards.  Eileen M. McVey.  September 1989.  19 pp.
(Aqua-Topic Series)
Sturgeons.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  10 pp.  AIC Series no. 4.
Watercress.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  6 pp.  AIC Series no. 3.


===========================================================================
                             INFORMATION ALERTS
 Recent items of public interest published as Information Alerts by NAL
===========================================================================
IA89-08.TXT   REGIS:  ... African Aquaculture                    4/21/89
IA89-12.TXT   NATDP Announces Aquaculture Compact Disk           6/21/89
IA89-21.TXT   New Aquaculture Bibliography Available             8/15/89


Another document available:
NAL Publ. "Potentials of Aquaculture"......................90-05 IA90-05.TXT


AQUACULTURE
     Deborah Hanfman, a Technical Information Specialist at NAL,
selected 62 key  U.S. Government publications for this database.
They include books, technical reports, bibliographies, leaflets,
bulletins and journal articles.  These publications are not
copyrighted and may be downloaded or printed for personal use.
Software used: Textware.
          This database was created as part of an experimental,
pilot project by the National Agricultural Library.  Copies are not
available.  The database may be searched at the D.C. Reference
Center and in the main library, Beltsville, MD.  Technical
questions about the database may be addressed to Deborah Hanfman
(301)344-3558, or Judith Zidar (301)344-3818, USDA, National
Agricultural Library, 10301 Baltimore Blvd., Beltsville, MD 20705.

Another file available for download:
LAQUADV.ZIP     59680  06-30-88  Louisiana Aquaculture Expert Advisory

Re: 1/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Life on a Fish Farm: Food Safety a Priority
                           by Beverly Corey, D.V.M.

In bold yellow letters the supermarket ad proclaims, "Save on Catch of the
Day." Beneath the message is a fisherman's oversized dip-net teeming with
thick sliced lemons, red snapper, trout, mussels, a red onion, succulent
shrimp, a sprig of parsley, and a luscious lobster. The picture creates an
intense hunger for seafood. It also commands a closer look.

The ad's fine print lists the usual information: the price of the product,
its common or usual name, whether it is fresh or frozen, and its place of
origin. But a few products are identified with a term that implies an
additional distinction--"farm-raised." This means it's a product of
aquaculture.

What's Aquaculture?

Aquaculture means "water culture" or, more exactly, farming in water. Simply
explained, it involves the intensive production of fish and shellfish for
human food, plants such as seaweed, and even bait fish and fish for aquaria,
in a closely managed habitat.

The aquaculture industry has been described as "fragile" because it's still
young, yet "on the cutting edge of science" because of its use of technology.
Both descriptions are appropriate for an industry that has experienced
explosive growth in the last 20 years, but is still immature.

Aquaculture is considered by many to be the aquatic counterpart of
agriculture, with water substituting for land. But aquaculture is more akin
to animal husbandry, the science of animal breeding, than agriculture in
general.

Farm-raised fish mature in areas called rearing units or rearing areas either
offshore or onshore. Ponds, large circular tanks, and raceways--rectangular
concrete enclosures that make use of flowing water--are common onshore
rearing units for fin fish. Coastal lakes and estuaries can be common sites
for offshore systems raising fish and crustaceans in cages or net-pens.
Shellfish may be held in floating baskets or suspended on ropes hanging from
rafts.

The aquaculturist takes species of aquatic plants and animals naturally grown
in nature's waterways or in the "wild" and reproduces them in a habitat where
the operative word is "control."

The farmer can monitor and control every aspect of the fish's
environment--from the quality of pond water to the specially formulated fish
diet. Fish farmers believe that it's the element of control that makes a
farm-raised fish a better-quality product because it's easier to regulate and
guarantee its wholesomeness.

Fish farmers rely on good management and a host of products to prevent health
problems. They use chemicals as disinfectants and to kill bacteria;
herbicides to prevent the overgrowth of vegetation in ponds; vaccines to
fight certain diseases; and drugs--usually combined in the feed--to treat
diseases and parasites.

The supervision of this new industry is shared by several federal agencies,
including the Food and Drug Administration, U.S. Department of Agriculture,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the Fish and Wildlife
Service (FWS), and the Environmental Protection Agency, along with state and
local authorities. Their common goal is to ensure the safety and
wholesomeness of aquaculture products.

USDA has the overall responsibility for promoting the development of
aquaculture as an industry. FWS provides developmental research and advice to
fish farmers. EPA safeguards the environment and municipal water systems by
regulating the discharge of water from aquaculture facilities and registering
the chemicals used as pesticides and herbicides. NOAA, for a fee, provides an
inspection service that guarantees fish are packed under federal inspection.

FDA works with the individual states to ensure the safety of seafood
products, especially molluscan shellfish such as oysters, clams and mussels.
It also approves the drugs and feed additives used in aquaculture; monitors
the manufacturing, distribution and use of fish drugs; provides technical
assistance and training to the states; conducts research; and provides the
necessary oversight to ensure that fish food products are safe, wholesome and
properly labeled.

FDA's recently created Office of Seafood--in its Center for Food Safety and
Applied Nutrition--is the focal point for much of the agency's food fish
programs. FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine works closely with the Office
of Seafood.

There are five major components to any fish culture operation: fish, water,
container or pond, nutrition, and management practices. Each component plays
a significant role in the farming of a safe and wholesome food. A look at the
actual process provides an understanding of the term "farm-raised."

Raising Catfish

Catfish farming makes up 50 percent of the U.S. aquaculture industry and
typifies aquaculture in action.

The life of a farm-raised catfish begins with the mating of genetically bred
broodstock. Broodstock are sexually mature fish used solely for reproduction.
They are so important that some farmers specialize in their production.

Re: 2/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typically, once the eggs are laid and fertilized, they are placed in
controlled hatching tanks with oxygenated water of suitable temperature and
quality. The eggs hatch in seven to eight days, and 18 days after hatching
the young catfish--"fry," as they are called--are strong enough to be
transferred to outdoor ponds to mature.

The pond size may vary from 5 to 20 acres, is 4 to 5 feet deep, and is
usually fed by a good supply of well water. Catfish fry, which are less than
1 inch long at this point, are stocked at densities ranging from 70,000 per
acre to upwards of 200,000 per acre, as recommended by hatchery biologists.

Once fish enter the pond, their growth and survival will wholly depend upon
the quality of that environment. Everything the fish comes into contact with
has the potential of becoming a part of the edible flesh of that organism and
can affect its life. If the water or food contains contaminants, they may end
up in the fish. If improper drugs are used to treat a disease, residues of
those drugs may also become a part of the fish. If too many aquatic plants
are present, they will compete with the fish for oxygen. Sound management is
essential to keep the fish growing.

So, from the time of stocking to the time of harvest, the farmer is busy
controlling the aquaculture system.

First, every attention is given to the quality of the commercially prepared
dry pellet diet. It must be high in protein (30 to 40 percent, depending upon
the stage of growth), made of soybeans, corn, wheat, and fishmeal, and
contain a balance of essential vitamins and minerals in accordance with
recommendations by the National Research Council and fish nutritionists.

Under FDA requirements, the mill that produces the feed guarantees that
ingredients are present at the levels declared on the feed label and that
feeds containing medications meet drug level specifications.

Prior to pelleting, the mill also analyzes each ingredient to guarantee the
absence of toxicants or contaminants. Feeds contaminated with
aflatoxins--toxins that occur in moldy feed ingredients--can cause fish
deformities and even kill the fish. FDA inspectors routinely examine the
mills' feed test results and evaluate their good manufacturing practices.

A balanced diet of floating pellets is mechanically scattered on the fish
pond's surface once or twice daily. Fish gourmets credit the pellet for the
catfish's distinctive flavor, which they say they would recognize
blindfolded. Others say the taste comes from the sweet well water in which
the catfish grow. This, too, is managed by the farmer.

Even before the fish go into the pond, water quality and location are
concerns. The farmers make sure the pond's soil is free of pesticides and not
contaminated. Then they secure an abundant source of clean water. Most
catfish farmers use well water because of its desirable chemical makeup and
lack of contaminants.

The water quality must be constantly checked for optimum growth requirements:
proper temperature, the right amount of oxygen, the appropriate water
chemistry, and just the right balance of aquatic plants and weeds.

To operate, the farmer must meet state and local requirements on water usage
and discharge, as well as the appropriate EPA water permits. Only
FDA-approved drugs may be used, with strict adherence to directions for
use--particularly directions that tell when the drug must be stopped or
"withdrawn" to prevent residues in the fish at the time of harvest.

FDA is alert to the potential misuse of drugs and chemicals, including the
use of unapproved drugs or chemicals. The agency has approved only five
chemicals--including three antibiotics--for use in combating diseases caused
by bacteria in the aquaculture environment. The fish-farming industry
maintains that this is not enough, especially with resistant strains of
bacteria developing to approved antibiotics.

FDA supports research to obtain data on the safe use of certain drugs and is
encouraging drug manufacturers to develop additional therapies for approval.
At the same time, they have developed an enforcement strategy directed
towards those who violate the law by selling or using drugs unapproved for
use in food fish.

To learn the extent of drug use in aquaculture, FDA's Center for Veterinary
Medicine, working with field investigators, recently completed a survey of
catfish, crayfish, and trout producers. The center and the Office of Seafood
are now developing additional analytical methods to test fisheries' products
for drug residues. The center is focusing on illegal residues of drugs from
off-label use: drugs approved in species other than fish that might be used
in fish. The Office of Seafood is focusing on drug residues that may be in
imported seafood and has increased sampling of aquaculture products--both
domestic and imported--for pesticides and industrial chemicals.

Under the best conditions, 18 to 24 months after hatching, the catfish reach
a market weight size of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pounds. They are transferred from the
pond to water-laden, oxygen-treated tank trucks for live shipment to the
processing plant.

Once the fish reach the processing plant, the responsibility for quality
control shifts to the processor, who must comply with FDA's good
manufacturing practice regulations and the provisions of the Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act. FDA inspectors routinely visit the plant to assess its
compliance with quality control guidelines to guarantee fish quality from
processing to packing and storage. If the plant does not comply with these
requirements, FDA takes appropriate regulatory action.

Re: 3/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spokespersons for the catfish industry say they consider quality a number one
priority. "Consumers should know we are offering a product grown in a safe
and controlled environment that is routinely monitored," says Hugh Warren,
executive vice president of the Catfish Farmers of America, a trade
association. "Our [current] major thrust is to create a sense of
understanding that [with farm-grown catfish] they are getting a federally
inspected product."

For 90 percent of catfish processors, federal inspection occurs daily. Major
commercial catfish processors have voluntarily entered into a contract with
the National Marine Fisheries Service--a part of NOAA--to have their products
inspected. The catfish processors pay for this daily inspection service. NOAA
inspectors issue certificates of quality and conditions of the catfish
products. Products that pass inspection can display the seal, "Packed Under
Federal Inspection," on the label or carton.

With some modification in the breeding requirements of each species, similar
methods are used to produce a host of other fin fish and shellfish, with
federal and state authorities similarly involved in making sure they're safe
to eat. As aquaculture becomes more sophisticated, so do the monitoring tools
of government regulators. Their goals, however, remain the same: to keep up
with the industry, provide assistance where they can, and enhance the safety
of all seafood, including the products of aquaculture.

Beverly Corey is a veterinarian with FDA's speechwriting staff.

A World Phenomenon

Aquaculture worldwide is sophisticated and growing. From a global
perspective, China and Japan are still the world leaders whose combined
products exceed an annual value of $12 billion. But, they have been at it a
great many years longer than anyone else.

As the fifth leading producer of aquaculture by dollar value, the United
States is making great strides.

Aquaculture is one of the fastest growing segments of the U.S.
economy--increasing more than 15 percent per year since 1980. From modest
beginnings, the farm value for U.S.-produced fish and other aquaculture
projects has risen in 1991 to $750.2 million and is estimated at 543,770
metric tons, or 11,990,128 pounds.

The boom in fish farming has been brought about by consumer demand for more
fish and a lack of natural supplies. Statistics show that virtually every
species of fin fish harvested from U.S. marine waters is now fished at levels
above its natural capacity to replace itself.

In an age where Americans increasingly search for nutritious but low-fat
foods, fish can be an important part of the diet.

According to the National Fisheries Institute, a trade association based in
Washington, D.C., Americans now consume 22 percent more fish than they did a
decade ago. Analysts believe that the level will continue to increase from
the current rate of 15.5 pounds per person to 20 pounds per person by the
beginning of the next century.

Aquaculture provides a way to supplement natural stocks and to potentially
provide a steady, year-round supply that processors and retailers can depend
on.

As one might expect, the products of aquaculture include the ordinary and the
exotic, and while not all species are farmed in the United States, our
gourmet palates encourage the import of items not fished in our waters.

For example, a specialty food shop may stock such items as salmon raised in
Chile or Norway, dried seaweed from Southeast Asia, eel from Taiwan, and
oysters from Korea--all farm-raised!

Not to worry. FDA inspects imports before they enter the country, usually at
the port of entry. In 1991, FDA conducted 3,541 seafood inspections and
another 4,094 wharf inspections of seafood producers and products. Import
sample collections numbered 3,033.

In special cases, there are memoranda of understanding (MOUs) with foreign
governments that allow FDA to inspect the harvesting areas and processing
plants in the country of origin.

FDA currently has active agreements for molluscan shellfish from Korea,
Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Chile. FDA also has MOUs with
Iceland, England and Japan. However, these countries are not exporting to the
United States at this time.

Among the 100 or so aquaculture products cultured in the United States are
aquatic plants, eels, abalone, lobsters, carp, tilapia, alligator, trout,
hybrid striped bass, crabs, and a variety of mollusks. But four species
account for 80 percent of the total volume of all domestic aquaculture
products: catfish, crayfish, trout, and salmon.

The latest industry statistics list catfish, trout, salmon, shrimp, oysters,
and crayfish as the consumers' choice of domestic aquaculture products. In
terms of volume, catfish, crayfish and salmon are the industry leaders, while
catfish and trout lead in monetary value. --B.C.


Re: Aquaculture (mention of biodynamics and alternative agriculture)
-------------------------------------
Article 2336 (8 more) in misc.rural:
From: Robert Frederick Enenkel
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Jan 92 15:33:27 GMT

Aquaculture Magazine is a good source of advertisements from U.S. equipment
suppliers.  They have a reader response card you can send in for information
from any of their advertisers.  It costs $21 / year for 6 issues sent to
Canada (less I think for the U.S.).  There is also a yearly buyer's guide
for $15.  You can order using a credit card by calling 704-254-7334.

Also call Argent at 1-800-426-6258 and ask for their free catalogue and
their book catalogue.  They have aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and
an extensive selection of books.

Try cross-posting your request to both rec.aquaria and alt.aquaria.
There are several people in those groups who practice small-scale
commercial aquaculture, or have in the past.  In the mean time I will
look for some names of specific people to contact by e-mail.

Robert Enenkel

Article 2337 (7 more) in misc.rural:
From: A.S.Chamove
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 00:28:12 GMT

Best book I have found on aquaculture is

Huet, Marcel. Textbook of Fish Culture: Breeding and Cultivation
of Fish, Eyre & Spottiswoode Ltd at Thanet Press, Margate, UK
1971, ISBN  o/85238/020/8

Has special sections on carp, pike, trout, perch, catfish, eels.
And sections of building dams, feeding, and the usual.

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand

Article 2346 (6 more) in misc.rural:
From: Ricardo J Salvador
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 18 Jan 92 18:22:23 GMT

Mike Campbell is a graduate student in the Agricultural Education & Studies
department here.  He has experience and a great interest in aquaculture,
biodynamics and alternative agriculture.  He is currently working on
developing a curriculum in aquaculture under a fairly sizeable grant
received by his department.  He is not on the net, but if you wish to
contact him, call the AgEdS main office here and ask for him: 515-294-5904.

Ricardo Salvador      | Internet:   rjsalvad@IASTATE.EDU | "Thou art a little
1126 Agronomy Hall    | BITNET:     a1.rjs@ISUMVS        | soul bearing about
Iowa State University | CompuServe: 71570,212            | a corpse."
Ames, IA 50011-1010   | GEnie:      R.Salvador           | -Marcus  Aurelius-

Article 2347 (5 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bill Spikes
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 17:32:54 GMT

Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
sea otters are getting too frisky.

Bill

Article 2423 (20 more) in misc.rural:
From: John Long
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 29 Jan 92 19:55:59 GMT

>Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
>abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
>sea otters are getting too frisky.

There is a research project in Kona looking at the possibility of generating
power from the difference in temperature between surface and deep sea water,
known as ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC). As a sideline in the project,
the used cold water is piped to aquaculture experiments at the site.

The aquaculture experiments have been successful enough to become commercial,
one of them is even doing very well on the stock market (that's the most
important thing, after all!  ;^)

Abalone are grown, as are 'Maine' lobsters, salmon have been spawned, and
have returned and been harvested, edible seaweeds, and others.

Cold water from the deep has many advantages over surface water, which I
can't enumerate. All in all, the aquaculture experiments have been extremely
promising.

-LongJohn

3767
Article 3767 (14 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:13:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

There has been a great deal of intensive fish farming going on
in parts of Asia for at least centuries so they have developed
a number of efficient systems.  Generally the carp species are
best suited since they can thrive on a variety of feeds many of
which can be produced in a farm situation as a byproduct.
The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising
in a small high production pond although certain requisites in-
clude maintaining a fairly warm pond temp. (65 to 85 deg F),
some aeration of the water, and certain companion plants.
Experiments were done for several years at the New Alchemy
Institute in Massachusetts, installing the ponds inside a
greenhouse for warmth through the seasons and using plexiglass
tanks to let sunlight in from the sides although this is not
necessary.  The earthworms would certainly be a feed for the
fish but tilapia surprisingly tend to do better if the diet is
lower in protein, so other feeds could be added.  Tilapia are
a bit like pigs;  they'll eat almost anything so kitchen scraps
or cuttings from a veg garden are also useful.
At the risk of getting a bit too graphic: tilapia can thrive on
manure alone as a feed, although I cannot remember which manure
is most suitable for this, I think pig manure is used in
Malaysia and works quite well.

Article 3954 (30 more) in misc.rural:
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:44:33 GMT

In <1binjtINN9jg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Mike E. Romano) writes:

>The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising

i do believe that this particular species is *not* wanted in
this particular state by the local natural resources folks.
i think it had something to do with their tendancy to take over.
so you might want to verify if any species you want are allowed
in your state. tilapia will also live quite well in a ditch
(if the information generated by the local d.n.r. is true)

bill pociengel
Article 3958 (29 more) in misc.rural
From: Mark Crispin

There is a problem with Asian style fish ponds that may make you think twice
about whether or not you really want one.  They're natural incubators for new
strains of influenza.

It goes like this; it is pretty common to keep both ducks and pigs at a fish
pond.  The pigs eat, among other things, duck manure; and both ducks and pigs
are protein sources for humans.  So far so good.

Unfortunately, as a result of eating the duck manure the pigs are exposed to
avian influenza.  Apparently, through some not-yet-completely understood
processes, the avian influenza and swine influenza viruses combine or mutate
inside the pig and become a new strain.  Humans can't get avian influenza but
they can get swine influenza.

The massive expansion in the number of fish ponds in Asia under UN funding is
postulated as a probable cause of the great number of new strains of influenza
which have emerged in Asia.

I would suggest that if you do have a fish pond, it would be prudent not to
permit your pigs to eat avian manure.  This would hopefully break the cycle.

As I implied, this process hasn't been proven yet, but it's the most plausible
explanation offered to date for the observations.  While we're spending
billions of dollars in the name of prudence with `global warming' (which
remains unproven), it seems reasonable to take a few less costly steps to
prevent your fish pond from being a potential source of a new strain of flu.

Article 3961 (28 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 1992 03:04:11

To Dean Nelson:  your original posting asked about the use of
earthworms which are thriving on the rabbit manure on your
farm.
I wrote a reply concerning some aspects of the fish pond
system and the tilapia fish in particular.
Since you do not have pigs, then the mention of pig manure
should not be as specific advice, only that this particular
fish is extremely hardy.
Several postings on this thread have advised caution in these
areas.
Let's go back to the original, then.  A small farm with various
possibilities of using byproducts in an efficient manner.
This particular subject has intrigued me for several years.
Much literature is written on farming for a profit, looking
for the right crop and raising it for the highest production,
essentially for an external market.
I am much more interested in how =well= say a family of four
can feed itself on a small piece of land, say 5 acres.
There are books and studies in this area, especially for
efficient vegetable production.
But beyond that, for such a small land area, for meat eaters
(such as myself),  how efficient can a system be designed for
the smaller livestock, i.e. poultry, rabbits, etc.?
For example, could certain insects be bred specifically for
feed for one of these (and let's include a fish pond too)?
There is an insect food newsletter from a university back
east but I do not have the name handy.
The earthworms are close, then, to this idea.  What would
be the most efficient way to use them for food production
on a small homestead?
I think much more research should be done in this area.
As for the fish pond, a bass pond or some other fish may
be more useful for your location.
However, tilapia being a  tasty and easy to grow fish and
also often grown organically so that a higher price can be
had, is a fast growing fish industry, although it has been
slow to catch on in the U.S.
A few refs:

     The dome as nursery and breeding pool for tilapia.
    R. Zweig   New Alchemy Institute  1980

    Summary of fish culture techniques in solar algae ponds.
   R. Zweig, Wolfe J. et al   New Alchemy Institute  1980

   Tilapia Culture:  1979-1990  Quick Biblio service USDA
    Beltsville MD    March 1991

Article 3977 (23 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: book source
Date: 19 Oct 92 15:13:15 GMT

I've lost the original posting, but I suggest calling Argent Aquaculture
Supplies at 1-800-663-2871 (Canada) or 1-800-426-6258 (USA) and ask for
their book catalogue.  While you're at it, ask for their aquaculture
products catalogue too.  They'll send you both free.  They have a large
selection of useful aquaculture books.  (Some of their book prices are a bit
high, so after finding the books you want from their descriptions, you might
want to check with a local bookstore to see what their special-order price
would be.  Sometimes it is significantly less.)

While I'm at it, let me put in a plug for Carp.  Common Carp are the *best
tasting* and *best looking* fish.  They are also friendly and will stick
their big leathery tubular mouths right out of the water and take bread,
say, right out of your hand.  So there - I've said it.  I raise carp
in my basement and eat them, and boy are they good.  I've even roasted one
in my fireplace.  How's that for wild crap (carp?)

Now I just have to figure out how to get them to spawn.  Then I'll be
<<self-sufficient>> and can kiss the rest of the world good-bye :-) :-)

Robert Enenkel

Article 3981 (35 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 08:06:26 GMT


In reference to Robert Enenkel's posting of growing carp in
his home.
If he has the time, it would be very interesting to find out
a little more:
What kind of lighting is used, any plants.
What is fed them, the temperature range where they are kept.
Is this a Canadian traditional custom, raising carp in the
basement?
Seriously, if you've read some of my previous posting you
would know that I am seriously interested in small scale
fish raising such as you have mentioned.
Any info would be appreciated.
mike romano

Article 3982 (34 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT


  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 3985 (32 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: Carping about Carp
Date: 20 Oct 92 15:19:51 GMT

>My step-father had a good way of preparing carp.  Take one carp, nail it
>to a board.  Build a nice smokey fire and slowly rotate the carp for several
>hours.  Then take the carp off......... and eat the board.  ;>

Actually, I forgot to mention the one bad thing about carp:  the bones!
They have the strength of piano wire and are quite dangerous, as well as
easy, to get stuck in your throat if you're not careful.  It helps to get
a large carp, at least 12 pounds, as small ones are functionally inedible
due to the large number of Y-bones.     Robert Enenkel

Article 3998 (39 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1992 15:10:49 GMT

: I am interested in starting up a small tank or pond to raise some fish.
: Does anyone know a good source of information?

        A good introduction to aquaculture is

        The Freshwater Aquaculture Book
         - A Handbook for Small Scale Fish Culture
            in North America
        William McLarney
        ISBN 0-88179-018-4

        This is still in print - and if you just want to
        look at this, your library can probably get it
        through a interlibrary loan.


        A guide to small tank culture is

        Home Aquaculture
        - A Guide to Backyard Fish Farming
        Steven D. VanGorden
        Douglas J. Strange
        Rodale Press
        ISBN 0-87857-472-7

        Maybe available from Rodale Press;
        otherwise maybe available from

        Steven Van Gorden
        PO Box 109
        Breinigville  PA  18031

        Who also has available a bunch of information
        sheets on a variety of issues.  Also publishes
        a quarterly newsletter that you probably wouldn't

Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>


Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Message-ID: <9210221557.AA19563@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>
Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:48 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Sender: daemon@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT
Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:39 CDT
Lines: 14


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

--MORE--(96%)

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



End of article 4010 (of 4016)--what next? [npq] 
                Aquaculture information resources on ALF
                ------------------------------------------


Another document available:
AQUALIST.TXT     3695  10-23-90  Aquaculture Info Ctr Publist


===========================================================================
                   LIST OF KEY NAL PERSONNEL AND SERVICES
===========================================================================
   Aquaculture IC                  Debbie Hanfman        344-3704   AGS3091
Aquaculture Information Center

     Subject Coverage:  Culture of aquatic plants and animals in
     freshwater, brackish, and marine environments. Examples
     include:  catfish farming; oyster culture; freshwater prawn
     culture; tilapia culture; salmon ranching; and trout
     farming. Subjects related to aquaculture, such as pond
     management, cage culture, recirculating systems, diseases,
     and water quality are also covered. Staff of the Center also
     handle requests on eel culture; Spirulina farming; and
     aquatic snail and turtle cultivation, but not terrestrial
     culture. The "fisheries industry" (such as ocean fishing
     harvests) is not considered a part of the Aquaculture
     Information Center's coverage.

     Coordinator:  Deborah Hanfman, 301-344-3704

        Aquaculture Information Center
        Coordinator:   Debbie Hanfman
                       Room l09C
                       (30l) 344-3704
AQUACULTURE
-----------
Algae and Biotechnology.  Ann Townsend Young.  February 1990.  3 pp.  AIC
Series no. 1.

Aquaculture:  A Guide to Federal Government Programs.  Prepared by the Joint
Subcommittee on Aquaculture, in cooperation with the National Agricultural
Library.  November 1987.  34 pp.

Aquaculture for Youth and Youth Educators.  Eileen McVey.  July 1989.  16
pp.  (Aqua-Topic Series)

Aquaculture Genetics and Breeding:  National Research Priorities.  Prepared
by USDA Cooperative State Research Service, Office of Aquaculture.  March
1988.  Vol. I, 56 pages.  Vol. II, 61 pp.

Aquaculture In the Caribbean Basin:  A Bibliography (1970-1988).  Prepared
by Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt,
National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS);
Carol Watts, NESDIS; Dallas Alson, Caribbean Aquaculture Association.
More [Y]es,N)o,C)ont,A)bort,J)ump! y


Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 71.  September 1988.  71
pp.

Aquaculture In the Northeast Pacific:  A Bibliography.  Prepared by Deborah
T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Eileen M. McVey, Aquaculture
Information Center; Steven J. Tibbitt, National Environmental Satellite,
Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); Marilyn Quin, Coastal Oregon Marine
Experiment Station, Oregon State University, Hatfield Marine Science Center
Library, Newport, Oregon 97365; Carol Watts, NESDIS.  Bibliographies and
Literature of Agriculture No. 98.  October 1989.

Culture of Striped and Hybrid Striped Bass.  Eileen McVey.  April 1990.  28
pp.  (Aqua-Topics Series)

Eels.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  8 pp.  AIC Series no. 5.

Paddlefish.  Deborah T. Hanfman.  March 1990.  5 pp.  AIC Series no. 2.
The Potentials of Aquaculture:  An Overview and Bibliography.  Prepared by
Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt, National
Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); and Carol
Watts (NESDIS).  October 1989.  Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture
No. 90. 73 pp.
Practical Aquaculture Literature II:  A Bibliography.  Eileen M. McVey,
Deborah T. Hanfman, Mona F. Smith, and Ann Townsend Young.  June 1989.
Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 75.  175 pp.
Raising Snails.  Sheldon Cheney.  SRB 88-04.  March 1988.  16 pp.
Seafood Safety and Standards.  Eileen M. McVey.  September 1989.  19 pp.
(Aqua-Topic Series)
Sturgeons.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  10 pp.  AIC Series no. 4.
Watercress.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  6 pp.  AIC Series no. 3.


===========================================================================
                             INFORMATION ALERTS
 Recent items of public interest published as Information Alerts by NAL
===========================================================================
IA89-08.TXT   REGIS:  ... African Aquaculture                    4/21/89
IA89-12.TXT   NATDP Announces Aquaculture Compact Disk           6/21/89
IA89-21.TXT   New Aquaculture Bibliography Available             8/15/89


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NAL Publ. "Potentials of Aquaculture"......................90-05 IA90-05.TXT


AQUACULTURE
     Deborah Hanfman, a Technical Information Specialist at NAL,
selected 62 key  U.S. Government publications for this database.
They include books, technical reports, bibliographies, leaflets,
bulletins and journal articles.  These publications are not
copyrighted and may be downloaded or printed for personal use.
Software used: Textware.
          This database was created as part of an experimental,
pilot project by the National Agricultural Library.  Copies are not
available.  The database may be searched at the D.C. Reference
Center and in the main library, Beltsville, MD.  Technical
questions about the database may be addressed to Deborah Hanfman
(301)344-3558, or Judith Zidar (301)344-3818, USDA, National
Agricultural Library, 10301 Baltimore Blvd., Beltsville, MD 20705.

Another file available for download:
LAQUADV.ZIP     59680  06-30-88  Louisiana Aquaculture Expert Advisory

Re: 1/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Life on a Fish Farm: Food Safety a Priority
                           by Beverly Corey, D.V.M.

In bold yellow letters the supermarket ad proclaims, "Save on Catch of the
Day." Beneath the message is a fisherman's oversized dip-net teeming with
thick sliced lemons, red snapper, trout, mussels, a red onion, succulent
shrimp, a sprig of parsley, and a luscious lobster. The picture creates an
intense hunger for seafood. It also commands a closer look.

The ad's fine print lists the usual information: the price of the product,
its common or usual name, whether it is fresh or frozen, and its place of
origin. But a few products are identified with a term that implies an
additional distinction--"farm-raised." This means it's a product of
aquaculture.

What's Aquaculture?

Aquaculture means "water culture" or, more exactly, farming in water. Simply
explained, it involves the intensive production of fish and shellfish for
human food, plants such as seaweed, and even bait fish and fish for aquaria,
in a closely managed habitat.

The aquaculture industry has been described as "fragile" because it's still
young, yet "on the cutting edge of science" because of its use of technology.
Both descriptions are appropriate for an industry that has experienced
explosive growth in the last 20 years, but is still immature.

Aquaculture is considered by many to be the aquatic counterpart of
agriculture, with water substituting for land. But aquaculture is more akin
to animal husbandry, the science of animal breeding, than agriculture in
general.

Farm-raised fish mature in areas called rearing units or rearing areas either
offshore or onshore. Ponds, large circular tanks, and raceways--rectangular
concrete enclosures that make use of flowing water--are common onshore
rearing units for fin fish. Coastal lakes and estuaries can be common sites
for offshore systems raising fish and crustaceans in cages or net-pens.
Shellfish may be held in floating baskets or suspended on ropes hanging from
rafts.

The aquaculturist takes species of aquatic plants and animals naturally grown
in nature's waterways or in the "wild" and reproduces them in a habitat where
the operative word is "control."

The farmer can monitor and control every aspect of the fish's
environment--from the quality of pond water to the specially formulated fish
diet. Fish farmers believe that it's the element of control that makes a
farm-raised fish a better-quality product because it's easier to regulate and
guarantee its wholesomeness.

Fish farmers rely on good management and a host of products to prevent health
problems. They use chemicals as disinfectants and to kill bacteria;
herbicides to prevent the overgrowth of vegetation in ponds; vaccines to
fight certain diseases; and drugs--usually combined in the feed--to treat
diseases and parasites.

The supervision of this new industry is shared by several federal agencies,
including the Food and Drug Administration, U.S. Department of Agriculture,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the Fish and Wildlife
Service (FWS), and the Environmental Protection Agency, along with state and
local authorities. Their common goal is to ensure the safety and
wholesomeness of aquaculture products.

USDA has the overall responsibility for promoting the development of
aquaculture as an industry. FWS provides developmental research and advice to
fish farmers. EPA safeguards the environment and municipal water systems by
regulating the discharge of water from aquaculture facilities and registering
the chemicals used as pesticides and herbicides. NOAA, for a fee, provides an
inspection service that guarantees fish are packed under federal inspection.

FDA works with the individual states to ensure the safety of seafood
products, especially molluscan shellfish such as oysters, clams and mussels.
It also approves the drugs and feed additives used in aquaculture; monitors
the manufacturing, distribution and use of fish drugs; provides technical
assistance and training to the states; conducts research; and provides the
necessary oversight to ensure that fish food products are safe, wholesome and
properly labeled.

FDA's recently created Office of Seafood--in its Center for Food Safety and
Applied Nutrition--is the focal point for much of the agency's food fish
programs. FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine works closely with the Office
of Seafood.

There are five major components to any fish culture operation: fish, water,
container or pond, nutrition, and management practices. Each component plays
a significant role in the farming of a safe and wholesome food. A look at the
actual process provides an understanding of the term "farm-raised."

Raising Catfish

Catfish farming makes up 50 percent of the U.S. aquaculture industry and
typifies aquaculture in action.

The life of a farm-raised catfish begins with the mating of genetically bred
broodstock. Broodstock are sexually mature fish used solely for reproduction.
They are so important that some farmers specialize in their production.

Re: 2/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typically, once the eggs are laid and fertilized, they are placed in
controlled hatching tanks with oxygenated water of suitable temperature and
quality. The eggs hatch in seven to eight days, and 18 days after hatching
the young catfish--"fry," as they are called--are strong enough to be
transferred to outdoor ponds to mature.

The pond size may vary from 5 to 20 acres, is 4 to 5 feet deep, and is
usually fed by a good supply of well water. Catfish fry, which are less than
1 inch long at this point, are stocked at densities ranging from 70,000 per
acre to upwards of 200,000 per acre, as recommended by hatchery biologists.

Once fish enter the pond, their growth and survival will wholly depend upon
the quality of that environment. Everything the fish comes into contact with
has the potential of becoming a part of the edible flesh of that organism and
can affect its life. If the water or food contains contaminants, they may end
up in the fish. If improper drugs are used to treat a disease, residues of
those drugs may also become a part of the fish. If too many aquatic plants
are present, they will compete with the fish for oxygen. Sound management is
essential to keep the fish growing.

So, from the time of stocking to the time of harvest, the farmer is busy
controlling the aquaculture system.

First, every attention is given to the quality of the commercially prepared
dry pellet diet. It must be high in protein (30 to 40 percent, depending upon
the stage of growth), made of soybeans, corn, wheat, and fishmeal, and
contain a balance of essential vitamins and minerals in accordance with
recommendations by the National Research Council and fish nutritionists.

Under FDA requirements, the mill that produces the feed guarantees that
ingredients are present at the levels declared on the feed label and that
feeds containing medications meet drug level specifications.

Prior to pelleting, the mill also analyzes each ingredient to guarantee the
absence of toxicants or contaminants. Feeds contaminated with
aflatoxins--toxins that occur in moldy feed ingredients--can cause fish
deformities and even kill the fish. FDA inspectors routinely examine the
mills' feed test results and evaluate their good manufacturing practices.

A balanced diet of floating pellets is mechanically scattered on the fish
pond's surface once or twice daily. Fish gourmets credit the pellet for the
catfish's distinctive flavor, which they say they would recognize
blindfolded. Others say the taste comes from the sweet well water in which
the catfish grow. This, too, is managed by the farmer.

Even before the fish go into the pond, water quality and location are
concerns. The farmers make sure the pond's soil is free of pesticides and not
contaminated. Then they secure an abundant source of clean water. Most
catfish farmers use well water because of its desirable chemical makeup and
lack of contaminants.

The water quality must be constantly checked for optimum growth requirements:
proper temperature, the right amount of oxygen, the appropriate water
chemistry, and just the right balance of aquatic plants and weeds.

To operate, the farmer must meet state and local requirements on water usage
and discharge, as well as the appropriate EPA water permits. Only
FDA-approved drugs may be used, with strict adherence to directions for
use--particularly directions that tell when the drug must be stopped or
"withdrawn" to prevent residues in the fish at the time of harvest.

FDA is alert to the potential misuse of drugs and chemicals, including the
use of unapproved drugs or chemicals. The agency has approved only five
chemicals--including three antibiotics--for use in combating diseases caused
by bacteria in the aquaculture environment. The fish-farming industry
maintains that this is not enough, especially with resistant strains of
bacteria developing to approved antibiotics.

FDA supports research to obtain data on the safe use of certain drugs and is
encouraging drug manufacturers to develop additional therapies for approval.
At the same time, they have developed an enforcement strategy directed
towards those who violate the law by selling or using drugs unapproved for
use in food fish.

To learn the extent of drug use in aquaculture, FDA's Center for Veterinary
Medicine, working with field investigators, recently completed a survey of
catfish, crayfish, and trout producers. The center and the Office of Seafood
are now developing additional analytical methods to test fisheries' products
for drug residues. The center is focusing on illegal residues of drugs from
off-label use: drugs approved in species other than fish that might be used
in fish. The Office of Seafood is focusing on drug residues that may be in
imported seafood and has increased sampling of aquaculture products--both
domestic and imported--for pesticides and industrial chemicals.

Under the best conditions, 18 to 24 months after hatching, the catfish reach
a market weight size of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pounds. They are transferred from the
pond to water-laden, oxygen-treated tank trucks for live shipment to the
processing plant.

Once the fish reach the processing plant, the responsibility for quality
control shifts to the processor, who must comply with FDA's good
manufacturing practice regulations and the provisions of the Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act. FDA inspectors routinely visit the plant to assess its
compliance with quality control guidelines to guarantee fish quality from
processing to packing and storage. If the plant does not comply with these
requirements, FDA takes appropriate regulatory action.

Re: 3/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spokespersons for the catfish industry say they consider quality a number one
priority. "Consumers should know we are offering a product grown in a safe
and controlled environment that is routinely monitored," says Hugh Warren,
executive vice president of the Catfish Farmers of America, a trade
association. "Our [current] major thrust is to create a sense of
understanding that [with farm-grown catfish] they are getting a federally
inspected product."

For 90 percent of catfish processors, federal inspection occurs daily. Major
commercial catfish processors have voluntarily entered into a contract with
the National Marine Fisheries Service--a part of NOAA--to have their products
inspected. The catfish processors pay for this daily inspection service. NOAA
inspectors issue certificates of quality and conditions of the catfish
products. Products that pass inspection can display the seal, "Packed Under
Federal Inspection," on the label or carton.

With some modification in the breeding requirements of each species, similar
methods are used to produce a host of other fin fish and shellfish, with
federal and state authorities similarly involved in making sure they're safe
to eat. As aquaculture becomes more sophisticated, so do the monitoring tools
of government regulators. Their goals, however, remain the same: to keep up
with the industry, provide assistance where they can, and enhance the safety
of all seafood, including the products of aquaculture.

Beverly Corey is a veterinarian with FDA's speechwriting staff.

A World Phenomenon

Aquaculture worldwide is sophisticated and growing. From a global
perspective, China and Japan are still the world leaders whose combined
products exceed an annual value of $12 billion. But, they have been at it a
great many years longer than anyone else.

As the fifth leading producer of aquaculture by dollar value, the United
States is making great strides.

Aquaculture is one of the fastest growing segments of the U.S.
economy--increasing more than 15 percent per year since 1980. From modest
beginnings, the farm value for U.S.-produced fish and other aquaculture
projects has risen in 1991 to $750.2 million and is estimated at 543,770
metric tons, or 11,990,128 pounds.

The boom in fish farming has been brought about by consumer demand for more
fish and a lack of natural supplies. Statistics show that virtually every
species of fin fish harvested from U.S. marine waters is now fished at levels
above its natural capacity to replace itself.

In an age where Americans increasingly search for nutritious but low-fat
foods, fish can be an important part of the diet.

According to the National Fisheries Institute, a trade association based in
Washington, D.C., Americans now consume 22 percent more fish than they did a
decade ago. Analysts believe that the level will continue to increase from
the current rate of 15.5 pounds per person to 20 pounds per person by the
beginning of the next century.

Aquaculture provides a way to supplement natural stocks and to potentially
provide a steady, year-round supply that processors and retailers can depend
on.

As one might expect, the products of aquaculture include the ordinary and the
exotic, and while not all species are farmed in the United States, our
gourmet palates encourage the import of items not fished in our waters.

For example, a specialty food shop may stock such items as salmon raised in
Chile or Norway, dried seaweed from Southeast Asia, eel from Taiwan, and
oysters from Korea--all farm-raised!

Not to worry. FDA inspects imports before they enter the country, usually at
the port of entry. In 1991, FDA conducted 3,541 seafood inspections and
another 4,094 wharf inspections of seafood producers and products. Import
sample collections numbered 3,033.

In special cases, there are memoranda of understanding (MOUs) with foreign
governments that allow FDA to inspect the harvesting areas and processing
plants in the country of origin.

FDA currently has active agreements for molluscan shellfish from Korea,
Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Chile. FDA also has MOUs with
Iceland, England and Japan. However, these countries are not exporting to the
United States at this time.

Among the 100 or so aquaculture products cultured in the United States are
aquatic plants, eels, abalone, lobsters, carp, tilapia, alligator, trout,
hybrid striped bass, crabs, and a variety of mollusks. But four species
account for 80 percent of the total volume of all domestic aquaculture
products: catfish, crayfish, trout, and salmon.

The latest industry statistics list catfish, trout, salmon, shrimp, oysters,
and crayfish as the consumers' choice of domestic aquaculture products. In
terms of volume, catfish, crayfish and salmon are the industry leaders, while
catfish and trout lead in monetary value. --B.C.


Re: Aquaculture (mention of biodynamics and alternative agriculture)
-------------------------------------
Article 2336 (8 more) in misc.rural:
From: Robert Frederick Enenkel
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Jan 92 15:33:27 GMT

Aquaculture Magazine is a good source of advertisements from U.S. equipment
suppliers.  They have a reader response card you can send in for information
from any of their advertisers.  It costs $21 / year for 6 issues sent to
Canada (less I think for the U.S.).  There is also a yearly buyer's guide
for $15.  You can order using a credit card by calling 704-254-7334.

Also call Argent at 1-800-426-6258 and ask for their free catalogue and
their book catalogue.  They have aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and
an extensive selection of books.

Try cross-posting your request to both rec.aquaria and alt.aquaria.
There are several people in those groups who practice small-scale
commercial aquaculture, or have in the past.  In the mean time I will
look for some names of specific people to contact by e-mail.

Robert Enenkel

Article 2337 (7 more) in misc.rural:
From: A.S.Chamove
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 00:28:12 GMT

Best book I have found on aquaculture is

Huet, Marcel. Textbook of Fish Culture: Breeding and Cultivation
of Fish, Eyre & Spottiswoode Ltd at Thanet Press, Margate, UK
1971, ISBN  o/85238/020/8

Has special sections on carp, pike, trout, perch, catfish, eels.
And sections of building dams, feeding, and the usual.

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand

Article 2346 (6 more) in misc.rural:
From: Ricardo J Salvador
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 18 Jan 92 18:22:23 GMT

Mike Campbell is a graduate student in the Agricultural Education & Studies
department here.  He has experience and a great interest in aquaculture,
biodynamics and alternative agriculture.  He is currently working on
developing a curriculum in aquaculture under a fairly sizeable grant
received by his department.  He is not on the net, but if you wish to
contact him, call the AgEdS main office here and ask for him: 515-294-5904.

Ricardo Salvador      | Internet:   rjsalvad@IASTATE.EDU | "Thou art a little
1126 Agronomy Hall    | BITNET:     a1.rjs@ISUMVS        | soul bearing about
Iowa State University | CompuServe: 71570,212            | a corpse."
Ames, IA 50011-1010   | GEnie:      R.Salvador           | -Marcus  Aurelius-

Article 2347 (5 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bill Spikes
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 17:32:54 GMT

Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
sea otters are getting too frisky.

Bill

Article 2423 (20 more) in misc.rural:
From: John Long
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 29 Jan 92 19:55:59 GMT

>Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
>abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
>sea otters are getting too frisky.

There is a research project in Kona looking at the possibility of generating
power from the difference in temperature between surface and deep sea water,
known as ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC). As a sideline in the project,
the used cold water is piped to aquaculture experiments at the site.

The aquaculture experiments have been successful enough to become commercial,
one of them is even doing very well on the stock market (that's the most
important thing, after all!  ;^)

Abalone are grown, as are 'Maine' lobsters, salmon have been spawned, and
have returned and been harvested, edible seaweeds, and others.

Cold water from the deep has many advantages over surface water, which I
can't enumerate. All in all, the aquaculture experiments have been extremely
promising.

-LongJohn

3767
Article 3767 (14 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:13:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

There has been a great deal of intensive fish farming going on
in parts of Asia for at least centuries so they have developed
a number of efficient systems.  Generally the carp species are
best suited since they can thrive on a variety of feeds many of
which can be produced in a farm situation as a byproduct.
The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising
in a small high production pond although certain requisites in-
clude maintaining a fairly warm pond temp. (65 to 85 deg F),
some aeration of the water, and certain companion plants.
Experiments were done for several years at the New Alchemy
Institute in Massachusetts, installing the ponds inside a
greenhouse for warmth through the seasons and using plexiglass
tanks to let sunlight in from the sides although this is not
necessary.  The earthworms would certainly be a feed for the
fish but tilapia surprisingly tend to do better if the diet is
lower in protein, so other feeds could be added.  Tilapia are
a bit like pigs;  they'll eat almost anything so kitchen scraps
or cuttings from a veg garden are also useful.
At the risk of getting a bit too graphic: tilapia can thrive on
manure alone as a feed, although I cannot remember which manure
is most suitable for this, I think pig manure is used in
Malaysia and works quite well.

Article 3954 (30 more) in misc.rural:
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:44:33 GMT

In <1binjtINN9jg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Mike E. Romano) writes:

>The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising

i do believe that this particular species is *not* wanted in
this particular state by the local natural resources folks.
i think it had something to do with their tendancy to take over.
so you might want to verify if any species you want are allowed
in your state. tilapia will also live quite well in a ditch
(if the information generated by the local d.n.r. is true)

bill pociengel
Article 3958 (29 more) in misc.rural
From: Mark Crispin

There is a problem with Asian style fish ponds that may make you think twice
about whether or not you really want one.  They're natural incubators for new
strains of influenza.

It goes like this; it is pretty common to keep both ducks and pigs at a fish
pond.  The pigs eat, among other things, duck manure; and both ducks and pigs
are protein sources for humans.  So far so good.

Unfortunately, as a result of eating the duck manure the pigs are exposed to
avian influenza.  Apparently, through some not-yet-completely understood
processes, the avian influenza and swine influenza viruses combine or mutate
inside the pig and become a new strain.  Humans can't get avian influenza but
they can get swine influenza.

The massive expansion in the number of fish ponds in Asia under UN funding is
postulated as a probable cause of the great number of new strains of influenza
which have emerged in Asia.

I would suggest that if you do have a fish pond, it would be prudent not to
permit your pigs to eat avian manure.  This would hopefully break the cycle.

As I implied, this process hasn't been proven yet, but it's the most plausible
explanation offered to date for the observations.  While we're spending
billions of dollars in the name of prudence with `global warming' (which
remains unproven), it seems reasonable to take a few less costly steps to
prevent your fish pond from being a potential source of a new strain of flu.

Article 3961 (28 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 1992 03:04:11

To Dean Nelson:  your original posting asked about the use of
earthworms which are thriving on the rabbit manure on your
farm.
I wrote a reply concerning some aspects of the fish pond
system and the tilapia fish in particular.
Since you do not have pigs, then the mention of pig manure
should not be as specific advice, only that this particular
fish is extremely hardy.
Several postings on this thread have advised caution in these
areas.
Let's go back to the original, then.  A small farm with various
possibilities of using byproducts in an efficient manner.
This particular subject has intrigued me for several years.
Much literature is written on farming for a profit, looking
for the right crop and raising it for the highest production,
essentially for an external market.
I am much more interested in how =well= say a family of four
can feed itself on a small piece of land, say 5 acres.
There are books and studies in this area, especially for
efficient vegetable production.
But beyond that, for such a small land area, for meat eaters
(such as myself),  how efficient can a system be designed for
the smaller livestock, i.e. poultry, rabbits, etc.?
For example, could certain insects be bred specifically for
feed for one of these (and let's include a fish pond too)?
There is an insect food newsletter from a university back
east but I do not have the name handy.
The earthworms are close, then, to this idea.  What would
be the most efficient way to use them for food production
on a small homestead?
I think much more research should be done in this area.
As for the fish pond, a bass pond or some other fish may
be more useful for your location.
However, tilapia being a  tasty and easy to grow fish and
also often grown organically so that a higher price can be
had, is a fast growing fish industry, although it has been
slow to catch on in the U.S.
A few refs:

     The dome as nursery and breeding pool for tilapia.
    R. Zweig   New Alchemy Institute  1980

    Summary of fish culture techniques in solar algae ponds.
   R. Zweig, Wolfe J. et al   New Alchemy Institute  1980

   Tilapia Culture:  1979-1990  Quick Biblio service USDA
    Beltsville MD    March 1991

Article 3977 (23 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: book source
Date: 19 Oct 92 15:13:15 GMT

I've lost the original posting, but I suggest calling Argent Aquaculture
Supplies at 1-800-663-2871 (Canada) or 1-800-426-6258 (USA) and ask for
their book catalogue.  While you're at it, ask for their aquaculture
products catalogue too.  They'll send you both free.  They have a large
selection of useful aquaculture books.  (Some of their book prices are a bit
high, so after finding the books you want from their descriptions, you might
want to check with a local bookstore to see what their special-order price
would be.  Sometimes it is significantly less.)

While I'm at it, let me put in a plug for Carp.  Common Carp are the *best
tasting* and *best looking* fish.  They are also friendly and will stick
their big leathery tubular mouths right out of the water and take bread,
say, right out of your hand.  So there - I've said it.  I raise carp
in my basement and eat them, and boy are they good.  I've even roasted one
in my fireplace.  How's that for wild crap (carp?)

Now I just have to figure out how to get them to spawn.  Then I'll be
<<self-sufficient>> and can kiss the rest of the world good-bye :-) :-)

Robert Enenkel

Article 3981 (35 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 08:06:26 GMT


In reference to Robert Enenkel's posting of growing carp in
his home.
If he has the time, it would be very interesting to find out
a little more:
What kind of lighting is used, any plants.
What is fed them, the temperature range where they are kept.
Is this a Canadian traditional custom, raising carp in the
basement?
Seriously, if you've read some of my previous posting you
would know that I am seriously interested in small scale
fish raising such as you have mentioned.
Any info would be appreciated.
mike romano

Article 3982 (34 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT


  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 3985 (32 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: Carping about Carp
Date: 20 Oct 92 15:19:51 GMT

>My step-father had a good way of preparing carp.  Take one carp, nail it
>to a board.  Build a nice smokey fire and slowly rotate the carp for several
>hours.  Then take the carp off......... and eat the board.  ;>

Actually, I forgot to mention the one bad thing about carp:  the bones!
They have the strength of piano wire and are quite dangerous, as well as
easy, to get stuck in your throat if you're not careful.  It helps to get
a large carp, at least 12 pounds, as small ones are functionally inedible
due to the large number of Y-bones.     Robert Enenkel

Article 3998 (39 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1992 15:10:49 GMT

: I am interested in starting up a small tank or pond to raise some fish.
: Does anyone know a good source of information?

        A good introduction to aquaculture is

        The Freshwater Aquaculture Book
         - A Handbook for Small Scale Fish Culture
            in North America
        William McLarney
        ISBN 0-88179-018-4

        This is still in print - and if you just want to
        look at this, your library can probably get it
        through a interlibrary loan.


        A guide to small tank culture is

        Home Aquaculture
        - A Guide to Backyard Fish Farming
        Steven D. VanGorden
        Douglas J. Strange
        Rodale Press
        ISBN 0-87857-472-7

        Maybe available from Rodale Press;
        otherwise maybe available from

        Steven Van Gorden
        PO Box 109
        Breinigville  PA  18031

        Who also has available a bunch of information
        sheets on a variety of issues.  Also publishes
        a quarterly newsletter that you probably wouldn't

Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>


Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Message-ID: <9210221557.AA19563@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>
Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:48 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Sender: daemon@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT
Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:39 CDT
Lines: 14


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

--MORE--(96%)

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



End of article 4010 (of 4016)--what next? [npq] From PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET Tue Jan 18 15:07:20 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:27:42 EST
From: RON GITAITIS <PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bart Hall-Beyer

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:06:31 -0500 Ray Dobert said:
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>
>
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field ?
>
>Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
>Fayetteville, Ark.

Here are a few names to begin your quest.
I do not know how many of these people are still at the locations listed,
as I am taking them off of references that are 1-10 yrs old.

D.K. Chatterjee, J.J. Kilbane, and A.M. Chakrabarty  Univ. Illinois
                                                     Dept. of Microbiology

Frank Higson and Dennis Focht  Univ. of Calif. @Riverside  Dept of Soil and
                                                            Environm. Sci.

O.A. Ogunseitan, I.L. Delgado, Y.-L. Tsai and B.H. Olson  Univ. of Calif Irvine
                                                     Environ. Analysis & Design
                                                     Program in Social Ecology

S.-Y. Liu, Z. Zheng, R. Zhang, and J.-M. Bollag   Penn State Univ
                                                  Dept. of Agronomy
                                                  Lab of Soil Biochemistry


Martin Alexander   Dept. of Agronomy/ Lab of Soil Microbiology
                   Cornell University



Nikolaus Amrhein    Institut fur Pflanzenwissenschaften / Biochemie und
                    Physiologie der Pflanzen, ETH Zurich, Sonneggstrasse 5
                    Ch-8092 Zurich, Switzerland

S. E. Maloney     Division of Biotechnology, Public Health Laboratory Service
                  Centre for Applied Microbiology & Research
                  Porton Down / Salisbury / Wiltshire / SP4 0JG /
                  UNITED KINGDOM


Walter Mulbry and Jeffry Karns   USDA Pesticide Degradation Laboratory
                                 ARS / USDA
                                 Beltsville MD 20705

Allan Konopka    Dept. of Biological Sciences / Purdue University

From K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au Tue Jan 18 21:32:36 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:32:35 +1000
From: Kathy Canning <K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Bioremediation
>
>Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
>"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field

Try these contacts:
Marion Grinter &/or John Wickens at
Bio-region Computer Mapping & Research
3 Le Hunte St,
ACT 2600
Australia
ph & fx (06 282 5808;
Email biomap@peg

or try
Tania Stadler (she is away for a week)
 Tania.Stadler@geog.utas.edu.au

regards Kathy


From SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jan 19 12:55:11 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 08:16:54 EST
From: "Malcolm E. Sumner" <SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

Dear Dr Dobert
              Dr Domy Adriano and myself are starting a project on the bioremed
iation of steel flue dust contaminated soil (heavy metals) using a combination
of crops and soil treatments.
                             Regards
                                    Malcolm Sumner


 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
 Subject: Greenhouse Wastewater System
 Date: 23 Nov 92 04:44:22 GMT


Greenhouse Wastewater System Operating Since 1990

Creater of Garfield comic strip Jim Davis hired John Todd of
New Alchemy Institute to build this system especially for
Davis'  Garfield cartoon products company plant called
Paws, located near Muncie Indiana but having no public
sewers to connect to.
The system purifies sewage water at the rate of 1,575 gallons
per day.  This treated water is used to grow horticultural
plants commercially within the same greenhouse system.

A variety of  fauna and flora are used to process the waste
water.  The holding tanking pumping system forms a uniform
mixture of human waste, grey water, and some kitchen waste
from the dishwasher.  No toxic chemicals are allowed in the
plant system.
The first stage pumps this waste water into two 700 gallon
clear fiberglass solar tanks which  allow solar exposure
which in turn activate biological growth.  Two types of
bacteria are introduced: a grease eating bacterium and a
nitrifying bacterium which then reproduce indefinitely.
The nitrifying bacterium converts the ammonia and algae
eat the converted nitrates, as well as the water hyacinths.
The snails eat the algae.  Hyacinths need to be harvested
often and are converted to compost.  The rest of the system
is self regulating.
Aeration is required at all stages and is accomplished by
pumping air through plastic irrigation pipes placed at the
bottom of the tanks.  Cleaned water is transferred to the
second set of tanks where snails, algae and bluegills con-
tinue to process the waste water.  After a third stage of
tanks with similar ecosystem, the waste water is pumped to
a lagoon  4 feet wide, 20 feet long, and 2.5 feet deep.
There are sodium vapor lights above the lagoon to assist
with lighting and heat.
The lagoon supports:  arrowhead, duckweed, black willow tree
seedlings, water hyacinths.  The lagoon is also stocked
with Japanese koi, tropical sucker fish (Placastema),
mosquito fish  (Gambusia), and bluegills.
>From the lagoon the water is pumped to an artificial wet-
land marsh built up from  2.5 feet of 2 inch stones,
overlaid with  6 inches of pea gravel, with a thin layer
of water covering.  This marsh area is for experimental
trials of ornamental plants to be sold commercially and
includes: elephant ear, reed  canary grass, bulrushes,
papyrus, wild aster, monkey flowers, variegated orchard
grass, Japanese blood grass, wild iris, calladium, smart-
weed, and angel trumpets.  
It takes 5 days for water to travel through the system
and it is released well within purity standards; no
chemicals  are  added to the system at any point.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

From london@calypso Sun Jan 23 17:14:02 1994
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 16:24:05 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Re: [F] duck weed lowered nitrates

In article <1994Jan18.182245.9696@bme.ri.ccf.org> you write:
>I have gleaned several good bits of help from this group, 
>so here is my contribution.
>
>I have a 29 gallon freshwater tank that has been going for about 
>18 months with 1 large angel, 1 6" pl*co, 1 large gouramie,
>2 dwarf gouramies, 2 swordtails and 2 platies.  UGF with 2 powerheads,
>plastic plants, some algae controlled by pl*co and occasional glass 
>scraping.  20% water changes twice a month with gravel vacuuming.  
>Lighting: one plain old PlenPlax fluorescent. (20-40 watts?)
>
>After loosing 2 dwarf gouramies, I checked the ammonia (0) and 
>nitrates (> 150 ppm!) Started twice weekly 20% water changes and 
>reduced feeding.  This brought nitrates down to 40-50 ppm, where they 
>stayed fairly constant after several weeks.  Maintenance resumed at 
>about 3 times a month.  
>
>I wasn't very happy with this level of nitrates, so I decided I needed 
>something to eat the fertilizer.  I bought a couple of scoops of 
>duckweed, performed daily rinses and complete water changes for a week
>in a quarantine bucket with shop light, then dumped it in the aquarium.
>
>Nitrates are now constant at less than 5 ppm (detection limit of 
>Aquarium Pharmaceuticals dry tab tester.)  I harvest about half 
>the duckweed during each maintenance.  It pretty much covers the 
>surface by the next time.
>
>Simple, easy. Happy fish, happy aquarist.


Article 21922 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam
From: stngiam@athena.mit.edu (Shih-Tung Ngiam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lead from Paint
Date: 28 Aug 1993 22:10:13 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <STNGIAM.93Aug28181013@primavera.mit.edu>
References: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: primavera.mit.edu
In-reply-to: ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com's message of 28 Aug 93 19:05:52 GMT

In article <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com> ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com (eileen.b.fleming) writes:

>   Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house -- 
>   is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
>   from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

  Fruiting crops are generally less prone to lead uptake than root crops or
leafy vegetables.  However, if the lead level in the soil is very high,
the crops might still contain high levels of lead.  

>   Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
>   in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

  The U Mass Agricultural Extension tests soil for lead in addition to
testing for NPK and other nutrients.  The total cost for all the tests
is $7.50 per sample.  They also analyze plant tissue for lead, at a cost
of $10.  Try calling your county Extension Agent (should be listed under
the county government, in the phone book), for details of the procedure
in your area.

Shih Tung
Chem E
Best l'il Tech School
on the Charles





From ghegyes@nalusda.gov Fri Sep  3 10:23:04 1993
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Hegyes <ghegyes@nalusda.gov>
To: SANET-mg <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Living Machines Conference (fwd)





---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 23:50:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry London <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
To: sustag-public@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Living Machines Conference

Date: Thu,  2 Sep 93 14:58:00 -0400
From: glenn.mcknight@canrem.com (Glenn Mcknight)
Message-Id: <60.869.5225.0N18307E@canrem.com>
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Subject: Living Machines Conference

NOTICE TO MEDIA

The Coalition for a Green Economic Recovery will hold a conference October 1 to
3, l993 to discuss and promote the economic andenvironmental advantages of
living machines.  Living machines are, simplistically, engineered water
ecosystems which use natur
al elements such as sunlight, plants and animals to break down toxins,
concentrate metals and treat organic material in sewage and waste water.
Living machines can be part of clean, simple, economical and environmentally
viable solutions to a number of problems.  They offer less costly alternatives
for municipalities planning to spend billions of taxpayers; dollars on
expansions and new sewage a
nd water treatmen systems.  They do not use chlorine


















Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


-------
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.
>

        I read something about Jimsonweed.

        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1

        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth


From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(

------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to the library I go... 8-)

Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?
> 

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay


rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> 
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI


Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu> 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul  Dietz) writes:
>
>I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>       Paul F. Dietz
>       dietz@cs.rochester.edu

A lady in Germany has researched and catalogued some 250 or so plants
identified as hyperaccumulators. I have a magazine article on John Todd's
experiments with biological sewage treatment systems using some of these
plants along with certain aquatic animals, in partitioned lagoons, in
greenhouses to produce acceptably clean effluent. John started the New
Alchemy Institute.
Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.


Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:

> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.

> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?

> Thank you for any information or references.

> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>


Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants
Lines: 24

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
--MORE--(83%)

and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

End of article 704 (of 704)--what next? [npq] 


Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)


Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 31

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!

--MORE--(64%)

IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca
End of article 708 (of 709)--what next? [npq] 710
Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)


Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Lines: 34

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
                        .
                        .
>>: Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
--MORE--(59%)

                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
                        .
                        .
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546
End of article 710 (of 713)--what next? [npq] 713
Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 20
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712
Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 26
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
: metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probabl
y
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
--MORE--(66%)

crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
End of article 712 (of 713)--what next? [npq] Article 721 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk


Subject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com


Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


        This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
--MORE--(20%)

Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
--MORE--(43%)

single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)
--MORE--(67%)


        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
--MORE--(89%)

against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..
End of article 723 (of 724)--what next? [npq] 727
Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu


Subject: Re: A big hello
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> 
> <some deletions...>
>
--MORE--(54%)

> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??
> 

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

        D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------




Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

 

-------
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.
>

        I read something about Jimsonweed.

        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1

        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth


From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(

------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to the library I go... 8-)

Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?
> 

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay


rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> 
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI


Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu> 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul  Dietz) writes:
>
>I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>       Paul F. Dietz
>       dietz@cs.rochester.edu

A lady in Germany has researched and catalogued some 250 or so plants
identified as hyperaccumulators. I have a magazine article on John Todd's
experiments with biological sewage treatment systems using some of these
plants along with certain aquatic animals, in partitioned lagoons, in
greenhouses to produce acceptably clean effluent. John started the New
Alchemy Institute.
Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.


Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:

> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.

> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?

> Thank you for any information or references.

> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>


Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants
Lines: 24

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
--MORE--(83%)

and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

End of article 704 (of 704)--what next? [npq] 


Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)


Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 31

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!

--MORE--(64%)

IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca
End of article 708 (of 709)--what next? [npq] 710
Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)


Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Lines: 34

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
                        .
                        .
>>: Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
--MORE--(59%)

                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
                        .
                        .
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546
End of article 710 (of 713)--what next? [npq] 713
Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 20
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712
Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 26
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
: metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probabl
y
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
--MORE--(66%)

crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
End of article 712 (of 713)--what next? [npq] Article 721 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk


Subject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com


Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


        This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
--MORE--(20%)

Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
--MORE--(43%)

single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)
--MORE--(67%)


        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
--MORE--(89%)

against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..
End of article 723 (of 724)--what next? [npq] 727
Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu


Subject: Re: A big hello
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> 
> <some deletions...>
>
--MORE--(54%)

> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??
> 

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

        D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------




Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

 
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?

Sat 20 Feb 93  9:10
By: ALLAN BALLIETT
Re: New Alchemy/Ocean Arks

Here's documentation from the founder himself, John Todd, that New
Alchemy is dead, but the spirit goes on living and WORKING towards a
sustainable future!

==================================================

January 1 993

Dear Friends of New Alchemy

As you know, last summer the New Alchemy Institute officially closed
its doors. You may also know, however, that neither the vision nor the
work that began there have been lost. With the founding of Ocean Arks
International in 1983. there began a new phase in the research and
implementation of the ideas that first took form at New Alchemy.

Like New Alchemy, Ocean Arks was founded by John Todd and Nancy Jack
Todd and is a nonprofit research and education organization dedicated
to the creation and dissemination of the thinking and the technologies
fundamental to a sustainable future. Drawing on what we learned of the
ecology of aquatic ecosystems at New Alchemy, we since have created a
family of living technologies that now are restoring waters polluted
by human and industrial wastes to drinking water standards.

Working through The Center for the Restoration of waters at Ocean
Arks, we have created one of the most advanced ecologically engineered
waste treatment systems in the world which, after a few years of
extensive verification, is now legally permitted in two states. We
have begun to restore a highly polluted pond in Massachusetts w ith
our new floating Living Machine, Lake Restorer 1, opening a channel
for its use on water bodies the world over. Our Providence, RI and
Marion, Me research facilities have been making ground-breaking
discoveries in purifying industrial and toxic wastes. We have
demonstrated, on a laboratory scale, that Living Machines can break
down such highly toxic wastes as those found in Chattanooga Creek, for
which we have attracted the attention of Vice President-elect Al Gore.
We have also received continuing support from Congressman Gerry Studds
and Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy and
Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, to name a few, giving us a strong
vote of encouragement with the political leaders in Washington. Our
education program is reaching professionals and students with courses
in ecological design skills, aquaculture, food production, waste
treatment and environmental repair. Recently, we were granted the
Discover Award for Technological Innovation and the Teddy Roosevelt
Conservation Award by President Bush.

We have managed not only to survive but to move ahead with these
developments during a period when the environment was a low priority
in the eyes of government and most industry. But we have done so at
the cost of incurring considerable debt believing that the ideas were
too important to let die. Now, with the renewed promise of the
incoming administration and because of your support for New Alchemy
over the years, we are again turning to you to ask you to remain a
part of keeping its mission alive.

If you were willing, each of you could help us in some way. It would
be wonderful if you would consider any of the following suggestions:

1. Contribute towards a debt reduction fund or to our general support.
2. Help us to create an endowment, which would secure a future for our
work.
3. Help us find customers/clients in industry and in various
communities who need help cleaning up pollution and repairing
environments. Living Machines can upgrade drinking water reservoirs,
restore polluted water bodies and purify wastewaters.
4. Help spread the word. Subscribe to our publication, "Annals of Earth" an
updated equivalent of the old "Journals of the New Alchemists " .

1992 was a tough year for us. Salaries weren't always paid, yet our
morale remained high. We are a committed and talented organization -
dedicated to the Earth and to the training of its stewards. We are
ready with the skills and technologies to make things happen. It is
our hope that there will be a new environmental agenda over the next
decade and we want to play a key role in it. Please help us.

Sincerely,

John Todd, president

P.S. Your contribution is tax deductible. We now accept MC/VISA and
American Express.

================================================== Annals of Earth

The exchange of ideas feeds the roots of new thought. To this end the
Center for the Restoration of Waters publishes "Annals of Earth" to
disseminate the ideas and practice of ecological sustainability
throughout the world. It seeks, through written communication, to
foster the emergence of a new global culture. Published 3 times
yearly, "Annals" has an international roster of scholarly,
philosophical and ecological writers who deal with planetary issues
from a wide range of perspectives. While "Annals" covers and
chronicles the Center's activities, it also publishes articles that
range in subject from the philosophy of ecology, basic biology, hands
on environmental projects, to the Gaia Hypothesis. Distributed
world-wide, "Annals" is an intellectual forum for the presentation of
leading edge environmental thought.

A Publication Of Ocean Arks International and the Lindisfarne
Association Volume X, Number 2, 1992


$? Contribution
$15 Student/unwaged member
$30 Individual member
$35 Canadian member
$ 40 Foreign member
$ 50 Family member
$100 Supporting member $1000 Patron member

Membership includes subscription to "Annals", course announcements and
contributes to the work of OAI. Please make checks payable to Ocean
Arks International. We now accept MC/VISA & American Express. To renew
by phone, please call 508-510-6801.

  A Publication of Ocean Arks International and The Lindisfarne
Association

  OCEAN ARKS INTERNATIONAL

 * Origin: The Twilight Clone (1:109/70.914)

Article 1009 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!vbell
From: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Vance Bell)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <114049@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 93 20:02:59 GMT
Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu

I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
Massachussetts, and possibly other places.

I would greatly appreciate any references on this type of research.

The main source I presently have is an article on the New Alchemy
Institute, in Massachussetts, and a man named John Todd who has apparently
founded a company to promote the "technology."

Citations of reference books on plant abilities to sequester metals, or
treat water would also be helpful.

Thank You.

Vance Bell: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu


Article 1012 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 17 Mar 93 13:14:08 GMT
References: <93316214655.MIN-LRFAa00360.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 22
Apparently-To: <plantbio@daresbury>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Vance Bell (vbell@edu.upenn.sas.mail) wrote:
: I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
: ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
: attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
: Massachussetts, and possibly other places.

I don't have any references, Vance :-(

.... but a lot of work has been done on the water hiacynth (Eichhornia)
which apparently thrives when growing on all sorts of waste/polluted
water, and improves the quality of the water in the process.

I think there was a project to use the plant material produced, but I'm
uncertain what for because accumulation of toxic substances would make
it useless for feeding animals.

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 1013 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!clarke
From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke)
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Sender: news@watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <C41EpC.Aqs@watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 14:24:48 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <93316214655.MIN-LRFAa00360.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Nntp-Posting-Host: lethe.watson.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Lines: 17

In article <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:
|> Vance Bell (vbell@edu.upenn.sas.mail) wrote:
|> : I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
|> : ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
|> : attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
|> : Massachussetts, and possibly other places.
|> I don't have any references, Vance :-(
|> .... but a lot of work has been done on the water hiacynth (Eichhornia)
|> which apparently thrives when growing on all sorts of waste/polluted
|> water, and improves the quality of the water in the process.

Disney-World in Orlando, FL is using plants to process their waste water.
I'm sure they would be glad to give you references ... good public
relations and all that.

Ed Clarke
clarke@watson.ibm.com


Article 1017 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!UCRVM2.bitnet!VJIMENEZ
From: VJIMENEZ@UCRVM2.bitnet ("Victor M. Jimenez")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <9303172350.AA09136@net.bio.net>
Date: 17 Mar 93 23:50:40 GMT
References: <vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu>
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Universidad de Costa Rica
Lines: 19

Vance:

    I have no references, but I've heard that at the Instituto Tecnologico de
Costa Rica there is some people working in the matter.  Using the
water hyacint (don't really know how to write it, sorry).  You can try to
contact Juan Carlos Carvajal (jccarvaj@ucrvm2.bitnet) who is the manager at
that institute, and ask him to put in contact with the people who is working
in that project.

Good luck,

Victor

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
VICTOR M. JIMENEZ              VJIMENEZ@UCRVM2.BITNET
CIGRAS                         TEL. (506)-24-8554
UNIVERSIDAD DE COSTA RICA      FAX. (506)-53-3762
SAN JOSE, COSTA RICA
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Article 1019 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!cunninsd
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: plant-based, wastewater treatment systems
Message-ID: <9303181515.AA06685@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 18 Mar 93 15:14:57 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
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Wastewater treatment with plants is a well established discipline,
but with recent advances in genetic engineering and the tightening
of certain regulations (including POTW discharge limits, storm
drain run off, etc.) it is being revisted by new techniques. 

Some random thoughts:

1.  A good review of the engineering component might be found in 
chapter 13 "Land Treatment" of WASTEWATER ENGINEERING: 
TREATMENT, DISPOSAL AND REUSE.  Revised by George Tchobanoglous.  
Published by McGraw-Hill Book Company.  Plants/crops have been 
used as a land treatment system since the 1880's.  

2.  Specific literature searches on the subject /or following people 
will also give quite a list of excellent references:

 B. C. Wolverton-  reed beds, aquatic plants, constructed wetlands
he is now with Wolverton Environmental (601) 799-3807

Reinhold Kickuth  (Germany)- aquatic plant filter beds -lots of good 
papers & research.

R.F. Stott - (try Letters in Applied Microbiology, 1991 12, 99-105 
"Sewage treatment with plants")

USEPA (1988) document- Design Manual- Constructed Wetlands and 
Aquatic Plant Systems for Municipal Wastewater Treatment, EPA 
625/11-88/022

3.  There are many companies that promote, sell, or install plant-
based, wastewater treatment systems.  Some are listed below, but there are many
more:

The Lemna Corp- St. Paul Minn. (612) 688-8813
BBI-Charles Town W.V (304) 725-6880
EEA -Marion, Mass. (508) 748-3224
Phragmitech inc- Cheneville, Quebec (819) 428-3640
Severn Trent (Coventry, CV3 6PR- IN UK) -M.B. Green  
   they are installing 100's of reed bed systems and seem to have   
   done a good job on the engineering parameter.
Environmental Engineering Consultants, Norwich, Vt 05055

4.  As an overall comment- the design, supporting matrix (soil, etc),
plant species and rates of degradation can all be improved by the R & 
D community. Degradation of toxins by the plants, and plant-
associated microbes is a relatively "hot" topic currently under
examination in a dozen labs. There is some excellent work being done
in this area at Federal, State and University labs. 

5. A couple of conferences to note with plant & Xenobiotic 
degradation components are:  

Meeting of the Air and Waste Management Assoc Denver June 13-18
Congress on Cell and Tissue Culture, San Diego June 5-9
ACS Meeting- Chicago Aug 22-27 A symposium on rhizosphere     
      degradation
Water Environment Federation Meeting (Fall)
Soils Science Society of America (Fall) 


The standard disclaimer applies about these not being corporate 
opinions, just mine.  There is quite a lot of information out there on
the flux of chemicals through this systems, plant uptake,
degradative capacity of plants, etc...  There is a lot of room for good
inovative botany/microbiology/hydrology etc. 



From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 16:44:50 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:40:45 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: soil-test.for.heavy-metals

Article 22027 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lead from Paint
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.470.2552.0N41B8F9@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 00:00:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 72

Ebf@Cbnewst.Cb.Att.Com to All - Sunday, August 29th:

on August 29, 19 92 Discussing: Lead from Paint

E>Message-ID: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
 >Newsgroup: rec.gardens
 >Organization: AT&T

E>My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago,
 >and lead paint made its way into the soil

E>Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house --
 >is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
 >from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

E>Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
 >in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

There is no inexpensive test for lead concentration in soil that I know
of. Water is a different matter, but soil no. The cost is in the setting
up and preparation of the sample. Once set up, it is easy to test for
additional heavy metals such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, etc. I would
expect the test to run upwards of $200.

There are two levels of lead of concern, Parts Per Million (PPM) and
extractable, or leachable lead. The EPA hazardous level for lead is 5000
PPM, the leachable level is 5. There is virtually no chance that your
lead is in a leachable form since it is from paint, so there is no point
even running the leach test.

Background lead levels will run from 50 PPM up to 250 PPM. Soils near
traffic areas will typically be high around 500 PPM from lead from
gasoline. Even with the lead removed, it is still in the soil from years
ago. Lead does not typically migrate and it certainly does not decay
into something else. Once it is there, it is always there.

Lead limits in sludges and compost are set at either 500 PPM or 1000 PPM
before the sludge must be landfilled rather than used beneficially. Even
more of concern is the total pounds of lead added to the soil per acre,
since compost and sludge are diluted with the topsoil, but accumulate
over years.

There is little to do with lead contaminated soil other than to remove
it and bury it somewhere where it will not erode or grow crops, such as
a landfill. From paint sources, the lead will typically be in the
surface few inches as it is a large element and does not migrate
through the soil quickly. If you scraped off the old soil a few inches
deep, where the paint was or accumulated, you will have removed most of
it. Send it to a conventional sanitary landfill, possibly a demolition
fill. Do not spade or till it into the soil, as that only makes for more
topsoil that must be removed.

Lead does not readily accumulate in plants. Its problem comes in root
vegetables where it is adhered to the root as a part of the topsoil. The
more serious problem is children eating lead paint chips or the soil
itself, a phenomenon known as the "pica" syndrome. Lead can also be
breathed as a dust, and surprisingly, the skin absorbs lead quickly.
Much has been made of lead in drinking water. So the pathway to the body
is direct, rather than secondary through plants.

I hope this information helps.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~~~

Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis

e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * August 30th - Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned!



 

From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 16:44:24 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:40:30 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: lead-contamination.in.soil

Article 22027 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lead from Paint
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.470.2552.0N41B8F9@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 00:00:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 72

Ebf@Cbnewst.Cb.Att.Com to All - Sunday, August 29th:

on August 29, 19 92 Discussing: Lead from Paint

E>Message-ID: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
 >Newsgroup: rec.gardens
 >Organization: AT&T

E>My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago,
 >and lead paint made its way into the soil

E>Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house --
 >is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
 >from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

E>Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
 >in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

There is no inexpensive test for lead concentration in soil that I know
of. Water is a different matter, but soil no. The cost is in the setting
up and preparation of the sample. Once set up, it is easy to test for
additional heavy metals such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, etc. I would
expect the test to run upwards of $200.

There are two levels of lead of concern, Parts Per Million (PPM) and
extractable, or leachable lead. The EPA hazardous level for lead is 5000
PPM, the leachable level is 5. There is virtually no chance that your
lead is in a leachable form since it is from paint, so there is no point
even running the leach test.

Background lead levels will run from 50 PPM up to 250 PPM. Soils near
traffic areas will typically be high around 500 PPM from lead from
gasoline. Even with the lead removed, it is still in the soil from years
ago. Lead does not typically migrate and it certainly does not decay
into something else. Once it is there, it is always there.

Lead limits in sludges and compost are set at either 500 PPM or 1000 PPM
before the sludge must be landfilled rather than used beneficially. Even
more of concern is the total pounds of lead added to the soil per acre,
since compost and sludge are diluted with the topsoil, but accumulate
over years.

There is little to do with lead contaminated soil other than to remove
it and bury it somewhere where it will not erode or grow crops, such as
a landfill. From paint sources, the lead will typically be in the
surface few inches as it is a large element and does not migrate
through the soil quickly. If you scraped off the old soil a few inches
deep, where the paint was or accumulated, you will have removed most of
it. Send it to a conventional sanitary landfill, possibly a demolition
fill. Do not spade or till it into the soil, as that only makes for more
topsoil that must be removed.

Lead does not readily accumulate in plants. Its problem comes in root
vegetables where it is adhered to the root as a part of the topsoil. The
more serious problem is children eating lead paint chips or the soil
itself, a phenomenon known as the "pica" syndrome. Lead can also be
breathed as a dust, and surprisingly, the skin absorbs lead quickly.
Much has been made of lead in drinking water. So the pathway to the body
is direct, rather than secondary through plants.

I hope this information helps.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~~~

Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis

e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * August 30th - Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned!



 


Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?
Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>


Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Message-ID: <9210221557.AA19563@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>
Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:48 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Sender: daemon@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT
Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:39 CDT
Lines: 14


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

--MORE--(96%)

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



End of article 4010 (of 4016)--what next? [npq] From sustag@BETA.TRICITY.WSU.EDU Wed Mar  2 23:04:18 1994
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 14:19:27 -0800
From: "Tom Hodges (moderated newsgroup)" <sustag@BETA.TRICITY.WSU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list SUSTAG-L <SUSTAG-L@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject: Sustainable AQUACULTURE (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 1994 09:54:00 -0800 (PST)
From: KrisList <KrisList@csi.msm.cgnet.com>
To: sustag@beta.tricity.wsu.edu
Subject: Sustainable AQUACULTURE (fwd)



To:      DANIEL ABED-NAVANDI <ABEDDANI@zoo.univie.ac.at>

From:    Kris Kerrigan, CGNET

Subject: Sustainable AQUACULTURE



Daniel,

For more information about aquaculture, you may wish to contact the
International Center for Living Aquatic Resources Management (ICLARM)
in Manila.  Their e-mail address is  ICLARM@CGNET.COM.  The postal
address is

     MC P.O. Box 1501
     Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines


Good luck,


Kris Kerrigan
CGNET
From jleblanc@nature.berkeley.edu Thu Nov 10 23:44:26 EST 1994
Article: 47487 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!mul1mac33.berkeley.edu!user
From: jleblanc@nature.berkeley.edu (John W. LeBlanc)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Experimental Horticulture
Date: 3 Nov 1994 20:54:18 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Calif. Cooperative Extension
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <jleblanc-0311941250530001@mul1mac33.berkeley.edu>
References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mul1mac33.berkeley.edu

In article <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, XJNJ40A@prodigy.com
(ANDREW SINGER ) wrote:

> I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies 
> or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a 
> select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances 
> from human originated wastewater.    

A very quick search revealed these references to Artificial Wetlands for
treating wastewater. I'm sure there are many more.


1. VANOOSTROM AJ; RUSSELL JM.
     DENITRIFICATION IN CONSTRUCTED WASTEWATER WETLANDS RECEIVING HIGH
   CONCENTRATIONS OF NITRATE.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:7-14.


2. VINCENT G.
     USE OF ARTIFICIAL WETLANDS FOR THE TREATMENT OF RECREATIONAL WASTEWATER.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:67-70.


3. HATANO K; FREDERICK DJ; MOORE JA.
     MICROBIAL ECOLOGY OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS USED FOR TREATING PULP MILL
   WASTEWATER.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1994, V29 N4:233-239.


4. FREDERICK PC; MCGEHEE SM.
     WADING BIRD USE OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT WETLANDS IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, USA.
     COLONIAL WATERBIRDS, 1994, V17 N1:50-59.


5. JENSSEN PD; MAEHLUM T; KROGSTAD T.
     POTENTIAL USE OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT IN NORTHERN
   ENVIRONMENTS.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1993, V28 N10:149-157.


6. KNIGHT RL.
     OPERATING EXPERIENCE WITH CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT.
     TAPPI JOURNAL, 1993 JAN, V76 N1:109-112.


7. GEARHEART RA.
     USE OF CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS TO TREAT DOMESTIC WASTEWATER, CITY OF ARCATA,
   CALIFORNIA.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1992, V26 N7-8:1625-1637.
     Pub type:  Review.


8. HAUCK RD.
     TREATING WASTEWATER IN CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS.
     BIOCYCLE, 1992 SEP, V33 N9:72-72.


9. BHAMIDIMARRI R; SHILTON A; ARMSTRONG I; JACOBSON P; and others.
     CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT - THE NEW-ZEALAND
   EXPERIENCE.
     WATER SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, 1991, V24 N5:247-253.


10. REED SC.
      CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT.
      BIOCYCLE, 1991 JAN, V32 N1:44-49.


11. PRIDE RE; NOHRSTEDT JS; BENEFIELD LD.
      UTILIZATION OF CREATED WETLANDS TO UPGRADE SMALL MUNICIPAL WASTEWATER
    TREATMENT SYSTEMS.
      WATER AIR AND SOIL POLLUTION, 1990 APR, V50 N3-4:371-385.


12. BREEN PF.
      A MASS BALANCE METHOD FOR ASSESSING THE POTENTIAL OF ARTIFICIAL WETLANDS
    FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT.
      WATER RESEARCH, 1990 JUN, V24 N6:689-697.


13. KADLEC RH; BEVIS FB.
      WETLANDS AND WASTEWATER - KINROSS, MICHIGAN.
      WETLANDS, 1990 JUN, V10 N1:77-92.


From klier@cobra.uni.edu Thu Nov 10 23:46:18 EST 1994
Article: 47333 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@cobra.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Experimental Horticulture
Message-ID: <1994Nov4.212059.34570@cobra.uni.edu>
Date: 4 Nov 94 21:20:59 -0500
References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <39bdg4$mt6@ash.es.atl.sita.int>
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 23

In article <39bdg4$mt6@ash.es.atl.sita.int>, jenab@sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int (Jena B) writes:
> ANDREW SINGER (XJNJ40A@prodigy.com) wrote:
> : I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies 
> : or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a 
> : select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances 
> : from human originated wastewater.    I have had some leads in the fields 
> : of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland 
> : environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies 
> : going on anywhere.  Thank you for your help!
> 
> : Andrew 
> : Seattle, WA
> Andrew,
> Call your local county extension office, listed in the phone book 
> under county government.  If anyone knows, I suspect they would.

I know that there has been a similar experiment in Iowa... Try the
Iowa Dept. of Natural Resources, in Des Moines.  The area was a 
(created?) cattail marsh being used as a tertiary or quaternary
sewage treatment.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
 


From jenab@sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int Thu Nov 10 23:47:17 EST 1994
Article: 47414 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!nntp.sita.int!sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int!jenab
From: jenab@sunshine.ps.atl.sita.int (Jena B)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Experimental Horticulture
Date: 3 Nov 1994 19:25:56 GMT
Organization: SITA
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <39bdg4$mt6@ash.es.atl.sita.int>
References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunshine.es.atl.sita.int
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]

ANDREW SINGER (XJNJ40A@prodigy.com) wrote:
: I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies 
: or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a 
: select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances 
: from human originated wastewater.    I have had some leads in the fields 
: of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland 
: environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies 
: going on anywhere.  Thank you for your help!

: Andrew 
: Seattle, WA
Andrew,
Call your local county extension office, listed in the phone book 
under county government.  If anyone knows, I suspect they would.

--
Jena Buttimer
jenab@es.atl.sita.int


From sean.ohara@ucop.edu Thu Nov 10 23:48:06 EST 1994
Article: 47254 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!usenet
From: Sean O'Hara <sean.ohara@ucop.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Exper. Hort. (Arcata Waste Treatment PLANTS)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 94 11:52:45 PDT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
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Message-ID: <39bfav$9k0@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
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X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


> From: XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER )
> Newsgroups: rec.gardens
> Subject: Experimental Horticulture
> Date: 3 Nov 1994 03:08:39 GMT
> 
> I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies 
> or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a 
> select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances 
> from human originated wastewater.    I have had some leads in the fields 
> of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland 
> environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies 
> going on anywhere.  Thank you for your help!
> 
> Andrew 
> Seattle, WA

Andrew - 

I believe it is in Arcata, California (near Eureka) that they have a working
waste treatment 'marsh' that emptied into the Pacific Ocean.  If I remember
correctly, the water exiting the marsh is far more pure than most waste
treatment plants produce.  I'm sure if you called the University there
(Humbolt State, I think), they could tell you all about it.

Anyone in the Northwest who can add more info?

           Sean A. O'Hara, 710 Jean St., Oakland, Ca. 94610-1459
               saouc@uccmvsa.ucop.edu or sean.ohara@ucop.edu
                                                                 



From XJNJ40A@prodigy.com Thu Nov 10 23:48:34 EST 1994
Article: 47247 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: XJNJ40A@prodigy.com (ANDREW SINGER )
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Experimental Horticulture
Date: 3 Nov 1994 03:08:39 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <399k7n$fj2@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap1.news.prodigy.com
X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

I am interested if anyone knows of any universities/government agencies 
or private institutions that are experimenting with the idea of using a 
select grouping of plants to extract "environmentally harmful" substances 
>from  human originated wastewater.    I have had some leads in the fields 
of golf courses, which treat the runoff water in a manmade wetland 
environment, but I would like to know if there are any formal studies 
going on anywhere.  Thank you for your help!

Andrew 
Seattle, WA



From dmo@gus.nsac.ns.ca Mon Nov 14 19:43:26 EST 1994
Article: 2132 of sci.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!ac.nsac.ns.ca!gus.nsac.ns.ca!DMO
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,sci.agriculture,bionet.general,sci.bio.ecology
Subject: WWW info. on artificial wetlands for waste treatment
Message-ID: <1994Nov14.145214.157@ac.nsac.ns.ca>
From: DMoerman@gus.nsac.ns.ca
Date: 14 Nov 94 14:52:14 -0400
Reply-To: dmo@gus.nsac.ns.ca
Organization: Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture and Marketing, Nova Scotia, CANADA
Nntp-Posting-Host: gus.nsac.ns.ca
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.sustainable.agriculture:4462 sci.agriculture:2132 bionet.general:10993 sci.bio.ecology:7049

Over the past three years the Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture and
Marketing has been working on a phased approach to the implimentation of
artificial wetlands for agricultural waste treatment. As phases of this project
are completed, documents related to the subject are being placed on the
Departments world wide web page. Currently, the results of a project to create
an annotated bibliography on the subject have been placed on-line. This
includes a project summary, list of references, and the start of an annotated
bibliography. It can be accessed through my home page at:

"http://gus.nsac.ns.ca/~dmo/dmoerman.html" 

or directly at:

"http://gus.nsac.ns.ca/~piinfo/resman/wetlands/litproj.html"

Comments on these documents or references for addition to the annotated
bibliography should be forwarded to me by email at:

DMOerman@gus.nsac.ns.ca


From bambugib@harborside.comMon Apr 22 11:20:39 1996
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 09:38:17 -0700
From: Gib Cooper <bambugib@harborside.com>
To: eaf-l@eaf.com
Subject: Projects to Improve The Bamboo Industry
Resent-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:38:58 -0400 (EDT)
Resent-From: eaf-l@eaf.com



BAMBOO IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST

At the 1994 Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agro-forestry Workshop a lively
brainstorming session was facilitated by Daryl Ehrensing, Senior Research
Assistant, of Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon. The group
developed a list of goals for improving the the bamboo industry in the
Pacific Northwest

The projects listed as most important and possible to accomplish are as
follows:

1.  Municipal sewage applications

In many areas municipalities use spray irrigation over large fields for
final disposition of sewage waste. An experimental bamboo plantation using
one of these facilities was proposed.

This method of handling sewage waste water appears to have hayfields or
golf courses as the main recipients. Hybrid poplars have also been growing
under these experimental conditions.

2.  Riparian improvement

Many streams and rivers in the Pacific Northwest are affected by logging,
livestock, and other human activities. Natural resource agencies and
private landowners are revegetating miles of these disturbed water courses.
On public lands the goal is to replant the areas with native species. Some
landowners want to replant private riparian areas with bamboo. Bamboo would
create a beneficial environment for aquatic life by cooling the water with
shade and providing food for fish. A strip of bamboo alongside a stream
would buffer the riparian zone from cattle and other livestock. Bamboo
rhizomes knit and hold the fragile stream bank soils from flooding and
erosion. Landowners would be growing a marketable crop of bamboo poles,
plants and bamboo shoots.

3.  Survey of interest in computer networking

There is an important need to promote communications between people working
with bamboo worldwide. A proposed method for accomplishing this goal is
through information networking via computer telecommunications.

Before the international bamboo community can be interconnected a suitable
communications path must be chosen that is accessible to all. The chosen
vehicle to make this decision is an international survey of all the
institutions and individuals creating bamboo information for dissemination.

Funding for the project could be requested from the world bamboo societies
and institutions involved.

4.  Determination of target species for pulp, poles, shoots, and craft
applications

American bamboo growing is in its infancy. More knowledge is needed
concerning the best bamboo species to grow for various purposes in the
variety of climates found in the Pacific Northwest. It was proposed that
coordinated research efforts be undertaken through literature searches and
test cropping as many species as possible.

5.  Proceedings of the workshop

The compilation of the papers and the group discussion period of the
Pacific Northwest Bamboo Agro-Forestry Workshop is to be published.

6.  Development of other goals for researchers

As bamboo growing progresses in the U.S.A., new information will be needed.
The bamboo agro-forestry group will have to determine  research goals and
funding sources. Cooperation and communications between institutions and
individuals will be a most important facet any project.

7.  Formation of grower, cottage industry and marketing coops

A sizable number of the participants of the bamboo workshop represented
people working in the region's bamboo trades. The group as a whole felt the
need to organize efforts in specialty areas.

Bamboo growers with nurseries felt more cooperation would be beneficial to
consumers. Supply and demand problems could be tackled on a group basis as
a trade association.

Bamboo crafters need to be more organized to broaden the market. A larger
market and variety of products could be made available to consumers.

Producers of bamboo poles, shoots and fiber need marketing coops to amass
commercial quantities for manufacturers and distributors.

-------

Gib Cooper, Coordinator PNW Bamboo Agro-Forestry Workshop
28446 Hunter Creek Loop
Gold Beach, OR  97444
Tel. or FAX 541/247-0835                e-mail:  bambugib@harborside.com

Article 3480 of bionet.general:
Xref: samba sci.bio:7641 sci.bio.technology:453 bionet.general:3480 bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts:3926 bionet.molbio.genbank:1068 bionet.sci-resources:526 bionet.biology.tropical:153
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!yoko.rutgers.edu!minnam
From: minnam@yoko.rutgers.edu (Minnam Sivananda)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.bio.technology,bionet.general,bionet.molbio.methds-reagnts,bionet.molbio.genbank,bionet.sci-resources,bionet.biology.tropical
Subject: Bioremediation Course
Keywords: A 2-day course offered by Cook College of Rutgers-University.
Message-ID: <Feb.1.15.54.57.1993.27457@yoko.rutgers.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 93 20:54:59 GMT
Followup-To: sci.bio
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 34



The COOK COLLEGE of The Rutgers - The state University of New Jersey is offering a two-day short course on BIOREMEDIATION: principles, applications, regulations & oppurtunities.

This applied two-day course is designed fro decision makers who design , evaluate or implement environmental clean-up projects. The program will explore:

* When Bioremediation is a viable clean-up option.

* Scientific principles  underlying Bioremediation Technology.

*Potetntial of Bioremediation in the future

* State and Federal Regulatory Environments

* Plan review Procedures and Necessary data

* Designs of Successful Bioremediation Projects

* Problems and roadblocks that lead to project failures

The course will provide the tools and knowledge base necessary to assess the viability of bioremediation for specific projects.

If you want more information :

Call   Scott Czesak  at  908-932-9271

or  Send email  to  Czesak@gandalf.rutgers.edu

or  Send mail to  Scott Czesak
		Program coordinator
		Office of Continuing Professional Education
		Cook College
		P.O. BOX 231
		New Brunswick  NJ-08903


CGER.Living-Machines
Green.Center.New-Alchemists
NEW/
Ocean.Arks.International
PT-lumber.hazards
all7.all
aquacult.001*
aquaculture.info*
aquaculture.listserver*
aquaculture.phillipines.ICLARM
bioremed-list
bioremed.ref
bioremediation
bioremediation.todd*
duckweed.ref
feedback
hyper.accumulators.001
hyperacc*
hyperacc.doc*
hyperacc1.doc*
hyperacc2.doc*
hyperaccumulators-bioremediation*
journals-articles*
lead-in-soil
new-alchemy-institute.update*
plant-based.wastewater.treatment
plants.001*
plants2treat.wastewater
references.journal
researchers
soil-test.heavy-metals
soil.lead-contamination
sustainability-in-ecology.research-project
toxic.metal.list*

NEW:
1/	2/	3/	4/

NEW/1:
biocontrol.new		bioremediation.firms

NEW/2:
hyper.accum.new		hyperacc.new		hyperacc.new.cis

NEW/3:

NEW/4:
From PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET Tue Jan 18 15:07:20 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:27:42 EST
From: RON GITAITIS <PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bart Hall-Beyer

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:06:31 -0500 Ray Dobert said:
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>
>
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field ?
>
>Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
>Fayetteville, Ark.

Here are a few names to begin your quest.
I do not know how many of these people are still at the locations listed,
as I am taking them off of references that are 1-10 yrs old.

D.K. Chatterjee, J.J. Kilbane, and A.M. Chakrabarty  Univ. Illinois
                                                     Dept. of Microbiology

Frank Higson and Dennis Focht  Univ. of Calif. @Riverside  Dept of Soil and
                                                            Environm. Sci.

O.A. Ogunseitan, I.L. Delgado, Y.-L. Tsai and B.H. Olson  Univ. of Calif Irvine
                                                     Environ. Analysis & Design
                                                     Program in Social Ecology

S.-Y. Liu, Z. Zheng, R. Zhang, and J.-M. Bollag   Penn State Univ
                                                  Dept. of Agronomy
                                                  Lab of Soil Biochemistry


Martin Alexander   Dept. of Agronomy/ Lab of Soil Microbiology
                   Cornell University



Nikolaus Amrhein    Institut fur Pflanzenwissenschaften / Biochemie und
                    Physiologie der Pflanzen, ETH Zurich, Sonneggstrasse 5
                    Ch-8092 Zurich, Switzerland

S. E. Maloney     Division of Biotechnology, Public Health Laboratory Service
                  Centre for Applied Microbiology & Research
                  Porton Down / Salisbury / Wiltshire / SP4 0JG /
                  UNITED KINGDOM


Walter Mulbry and Jeffry Karns   USDA Pesticide Degradation Laboratory
                                 ARS / USDA
                                 Beltsville MD 20705

Allan Konopka    Dept. of Biological Sciences / Purdue University

From K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au Tue Jan 18 21:32:36 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:32:35 +1000
From: Kathy Canning <K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Bioremediation
>
>Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
>"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field

Try these contacts:
Marion Grinter &/or John Wickens at
Bio-region Computer Mapping & Research
3 Le Hunte St,
ACT 2600
Australia
ph & fx (06 282 5808;
Email biomap@peg

or try
Tania Stadler (she is away for a week)
 Tania.Stadler@geog.utas.edu.au

regards Kathy


From SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Jan 19 12:55:11 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 08:16:54 EST
From: "Malcolm E. Sumner" <SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

Dear Dr Dobert
              Dr Domy Adriano and myself are starting a project on the bioremed
iation of steel flue dust contaminated soil (heavy metals) using a combination
of crops and soil treatments.
                             Regards
                                    Malcolm Sumner
From SEELIGERC@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU Wed Feb 22 21:29:58 EST 1995
Article: 1502 of bionet.mycology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!gvls1!newsfeed.pitt.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU!SEELIGERC
From: SEELIGERC@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.mycology
Subject: Re: motor oil decomposition
Date: 21 Feb 1995 22:11:58 -0800
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology
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NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net

On Mon, 20 Feb 1995 prdhaas@HUGO.FSUFAY.EDU wrote:

> does anyone know if there are organisms in nature that break down motor oil
> given enough time?  As you probably know many people dispose of oil in the
> terrestrial environment. What eventualy  happens to this oil.  Will it 
> end up in the water supply?

A grad student here recently worked on bioremediation of diesel spills.  
In greenhouse trials comparing unfertilized soil, fertilized soil, a 
specially engineered bacterium, the special bacteria with fertilizer, and 
a control, she found no significant difference between the non-control 
treatments, and a significant increase in rate of diesel breakdown over a 
three month period.  After three months, the soil that had been 
fertilized had gone from 5000 ppm diesel to under 100 (possibly under 10, 
I forget...)

Hope this helps,
	cur
	seeligerc@axe.humboldt.edu



From paulz@PUCCINI.CRL.UMN.EDU Sun Oct  8 00:45:48 EDT 1995
Article: 2733 of bionet.mycology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!in2.uu.net!biosci!PUCCINI.CRL.UMN.EDU!paulz
From: paulz@PUCCINI.CRL.UMN.EDU (Paul Zambino)
Newsgroups: bionet.mycology
Subject: bioremediation query
Date: 2 Oct 1995 12:20:12 -0700
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology
Lines: 23
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <199510021331.IAA00496@puccini.crl.umn.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net

I am just forwarding a request that I received by EMAIL.  I am not involved
in this type of work, but would be interested in looking at the responses
as well.  Anyone interested in responding may want to post to
mycology@net.bio.net, plus directly to his EMAIL address.  His message was
as follows:

Hello...I am George from Puerto Rico...I am asking for help, because I need
some information about Mycology...if you know about bioremediation using
fungi especificly with Phanerochaete chrysosporium...I'll please if you can
help me with that...I am a student from the UPR...my E-mail is
802902077@RUMAC.UPR.CLU.EDU...

Dr. Paul Zambino
USDA Forest Service
Forestry Sciences Lab
5985 Highway K
Rhinelander, WI 54501
PH:(715)362-1178
FAX: (715)362-1166
EMAIL: paulz@puccini.crl.umn.edu
DG:p.zambino:R09F06A




From 802902077@RUMAC.UPR.CLU.EDU Sun Oct  8 00:46:29 EDT 1995
Article: 2746 of bionet.mycology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!news.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!xpat.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!olivea!biosci!RUMAC.UPR.CLU.EDU!802902077
From: 802902077@RUMAC.UPR.CLU.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.mycology
Subject: bioremediation query
Date: 3 Oct 1995 12:37:02 -0700
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology
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Message-ID: <951003150009.20421147@rumac.upr.clu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net

I need some information about bioremediation with fungi, especificly
with Phanerochaete chrysosporium.Information about bioremediation 
itself could be useful too.
               Thanks.
                   George Diaz-Mail 802902077@rumac.rum.clu.edu


From andrzej@UIDAHO.EDU Sun Oct  8 00:47:04 EDT 1995
Article: 2751 of bionet.mycology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!newspump.wustl.edu!mitzi.rsmas.miami.edu!biosci!UIDAHO.EDU!andrzej
From: andrzej@UIDAHO.EDU (Andrzej Paszczynski)
Newsgroups: bionet.mycology
Subject: Re: bioremediation query
Date: 5 Oct 1995 10:53:22 -0700
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology
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NNTP-Posting-Host: net.bio.net



On 3 Oct 1995 802902077@rumac.upr.clu.edu wrote:

> I need some information about bioremediation with fungi, especificly
> with Phanerochaete chrysosporium.Information about bioremediation 
> itself could be useful too.
>                Thanks.
>                    George Diaz-Mail 802902077@rumac.rum.clu.edu
> 
> 
George please see my new paper: Potential for bioremediation of 
xenobiotic compounds by white-rot fungus P. chrysosporium in Biotechnol. 
Prog.1995 11, 368-379
Andrzej Paszczynski.


From poei@telebyte.nl Sun Oct  8 00:47:46 EDT 1995
Article: 2764 of bionet.mycology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!EU.net!sun4nl!Utrecht.NL.net!rubens.telebyte.nl!news
From: Peter Oei & Shan Du <poei@telebyte.nl>
Newsgroups: bionet.mycology
Subject: Re: bioremediation query
Date: 6 Oct 1995 21:52:03 GMT
Organization: ECO
Lines: 12
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To: 802902077@RUMAC.UPR.CLU.EDU

The University of wageningen in the Netherlands performed a number of 
experiments with various mushrooms. Check literature by Jim Field and E. 
de Bont.

A patent has recently been claimed by a Dutch engineering company, DHV 
Environment and Infrastructure. They recently published an article with a 
rather vague description of a test they did with mushroom substrate mixed 
with soil. Both mineral oil content and PAH went down significantly. 

Peter Oei
poei@telebyte.nl





 From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
 Subject: Greenhouse Wastewater System
 Date: 23 Nov 92 04:44:22 GMT


Greenhouse Wastewater System Operating Since 1990

Creater of Garfield comic strip Jim Davis hired John Todd of
New Alchemy Institute to build this system especially for
Davis'  Garfield cartoon products company plant called
Paws, located near Muncie Indiana but having no public
sewers to connect to.
The system purifies sewage water at the rate of 1,575 gallons
per day.  This treated water is used to grow horticultural
plants commercially within the same greenhouse system.

A variety of  fauna and flora are used to process the waste
water.  The holding tanking pumping system forms a uniform
mixture of human waste, grey water, and some kitchen waste
from the dishwasher.  No toxic chemicals are allowed in the
plant system.
The first stage pumps this waste water into two 700 gallon
clear fiberglass solar tanks which  allow solar exposure
which in turn activate biological growth.  Two types of
bacteria are introduced: a grease eating bacterium and a
nitrifying bacterium which then reproduce indefinitely.
The nitrifying bacterium converts the ammonia and algae
eat the converted nitrates, as well as the water hyacinths.
The snails eat the algae.  Hyacinths need to be harvested
often and are converted to compost.  The rest of the system
is self regulating.
Aeration is required at all stages and is accomplished by
pumping air through plastic irrigation pipes placed at the
bottom of the tanks.  Cleaned water is transferred to the
second set of tanks where snails, algae and bluegills con-
tinue to process the waste water.  After a third stage of
tanks with similar ecosystem, the waste water is pumped to
a lagoon  4 feet wide, 20 feet long, and 2.5 feet deep.
There are sodium vapor lights above the lagoon to assist
with lighting and heat.
The lagoon supports:  arrowhead, duckweed, black willow tree
seedlings, water hyacinths.  The lagoon is also stocked
with Japanese koi, tropical sucker fish (Placastema),
mosquito fish  (Gambusia), and bluegills.
>From the lagoon the water is pumped to an artificial wet-
land marsh built up from  2.5 feet of 2 inch stones,
overlaid with  6 inches of pea gravel, with a thin layer
of water covering.  This marsh area is for experimental
trials of ornamental plants to be sold commercially and
includes: elephant ear, reed  canary grass, bulrushes,
papyrus, wild aster, monkey flowers, variegated orchard
grass, Japanese blood grass, wild iris, calladium, smart-
weed, and angel trumpets.  
It takes 5 days for water to travel through the system
and it is released well within purity standards; no
chemicals  are  added to the system at any point.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

From glh8180@Msu.oscs.montana.edu Wed Jan  4 20:33:23 EST 1995
Article: 4568 of bionet.plants
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From: glh8180@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,sci.geo.hydrology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: INDICATOR PLANTS - REPLY  -  dirk.txt [1/1]
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 17:25:37
Organization: Montana State University
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <00989F80.A7996D20@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
References: <3eb7lv$abk@gina.zfn.uni-bremen.de>,<3edup8$hs8@wabe.csir.co.za>
Reply-To: glh8180@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: trex.oscs.montana.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.geo.geology:15823 sci.geo.hydrology:889 bionet.plants:4568

In article <3edup8$hs8@wabe.csir.co.za>, dlamprec@stellbos.csir.co.za (Dirk Lamprecht) writes:
>In article <3eb7lv$abk@gina.zfn.uni-bremen.de>, schuring@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Joachim Schuering) says:
>>
>>Does anyone know more about this especially about the use of plants to
>>indication soil contamination
>I once heard that in Zambia there is a specific flower growing on copper rich soils.
>Have never seen one.

>>Any help would be appreciated.

To all:
	One of the more interesting indicator plants in Italy is Alyssum
bertollini, which hyperaccumulates cobalt and copper and so does poorly on
soils not rich in these elements. This is not a unique phenomeon, I suggest you
get onto the nearest computer equipped with Agricola and do a search on
hyperaccumulation and <element> or something like that. 
	There are many plants which tend to indicate relative alkalinity of the
soil. There are many species which are highly efficient at gathering iron (also
Zn, Cu, and Mn) and so tend to be outcompeted in soils which are not alkaline
enough to cause trouble for the inefficient cultivars or landraces.
	As for water, around here, if there's water underfoot, the grass is
green. Otherwise, it's probably brown!!

Lidia A. Hess                *   That weakness overcomes strength
PSES/College of Ag           *   And gentleness overcomes rigidity
MSU Bozeman MT               *   No one does not know
GLH81802trex.oscs.montana.edu*   Yet no one puts into practice...Lao Tzu


From london@calypso Sun Jan 23 17:14:02 1994
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 16:24:05 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Re: [F] duck weed lowered nitrates

In article <1994Jan18.182245.9696@bme.ri.ccf.org> you write:
>I have gleaned several good bits of help from this group, 
>so here is my contribution.
>
>I have a 29 gallon freshwater tank that has been going for about 
>18 months with 1 large angel, 1 6" pl*co, 1 large gouramie,
>2 dwarf gouramies, 2 swordtails and 2 platies.  UGF with 2 powerheads,
>plastic plants, some algae controlled by pl*co and occasional glass 
>scraping.  20% water changes twice a month with gravel vacuuming.  
>Lighting: one plain old PlenPlax fluorescent. (20-40 watts?)
>
>After loosing 2 dwarf gouramies, I checked the ammonia (0) and 
>nitrates (> 150 ppm!) Started twice weekly 20% water changes and 
>reduced feeding.  This brought nitrates down to 40-50 ppm, where they 
>stayed fairly constant after several weeks.  Maintenance resumed at 
>about 3 times a month.  
>
>I wasn't very happy with this level of nitrates, so I decided I needed 
>something to eat the fertilizer.  I bought a couple of scoops of 
>duckweed, performed daily rinses and complete water changes for a week
>in a quarantine bucket with shop light, then dumped it in the aquarium.
>
>Nitrates are now constant at less than 5 ppm (detection limit of 
>Aquarium Pharmaceuticals dry tab tester.)  I harvest about half 
>the duckweed during each maintenance.  It pretty much covers the 
>surface by the next time.
>
>Simple, easy. Happy fish, happy aquarist.


From rdobert@NALUSDA.GOV Thu Mar  3 12:43:33 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:06:31 -0500
From: Ray Dobert <rdobert@NALUSDA.GOV>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bioremediation (fwd)

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Bioremediation

Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?

Bioremediation includes such things as the use of specific microbes
to degrade pesticide residues.

If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
others working in that field ?

Thanks,


Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
Fayetteville, Ark.

From barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu Thu Mar  3 12:44:00 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Bioremediation

Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?

Bioremediation includes such things as the use of specific microbes
to degrade pesticide residues. 

If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
others working in that field ?

Thanks,


Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
Fayetteville, Ark.

From PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET Thu Mar  3 12:44:48 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:27:42 EST
From: RON GITAITIS <PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bart Hall-Beyer

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:06:31 -0500 Ray Dobert said:
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>
>
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field ?
>
>Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
>Fayetteville, Ark.

Here are a few names to begin your quest.
I do not know how many of these people are still at the locations listed,
as I am taking them off of references that are 1-10 yrs old.

D.K. Chatterjee, J.J. Kilbane, and A.M. Chakrabarty  Univ. Illinois
                                                     Dept. of Microbiology

Frank Higson and Dennis Focht  Univ. of Calif. @Riverside  Dept of Soil and
                                                            Environm. Sci.

O.A. Ogunseitan, I.L. Delgado, Y.-L. Tsai and B.H. Olson  Univ. of Calif Irvine
                                                     Environ. Analysis & Design
                                                     Program in Social Ecology

S.-Y. Liu, Z. Zheng, R. Zhang, and J.-M. Bollag   Penn State Univ
                                                  Dept. of Agronomy
                                                  Lab of Soil Biochemistry


Martin Alexander   Dept. of Agronomy/ Lab of Soil Microbiology
                   Cornell University



Nikolaus Amrhein    Institut fur Pflanzenwissenschaften / Biochemie und
                    Physiologie der Pflanzen, ETH Zurich, Sonneggstrasse 5
                    Ch-8092 Zurich, Switzerland

S. E. Maloney     Division of Biotechnology, Public Health Laboratory Service
                  Centre for Applied Microbiology & Research
                  Porton Down / Salisbury / Wiltshire / SP4 0JG /
                  UNITED KINGDOM


Walter Mulbry and Jeffry Karns   USDA Pesticide Degradation Laboratory
                                 ARS / USDA
                                 Beltsville MD 20705

Allan Konopka    Dept. of Biological Sciences / Purdue University

From K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au Thu Mar  3 12:46:10 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:32:35 +1000
From: Kathy Canning <K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Bioremediation
>
>Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
>"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field

Try these contacts:
Marion Grinter &/or John Wickens at
Bio-region Computer Mapping & Research
3 Le Hunte St,
ACT 2600
Australia
ph & fx (06 282 5808;
Email biomap@peg

or try
Tania Stadler (she is away for a week)
 Tania.Stadler@geog.utas.edu.au

regards Kathy

>

From SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  3 12:47:52 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 08:16:54 EST
From: "Malcolm E. Sumner" <SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

Dear Dr Dobert
              Dr Domy Adriano and myself are starting a project on the bioremed
iation of steel flue dust contaminated soil (heavy metals) using a combination
of crops and soil treatments.
                             Regards
                                    Malcolm Sumner

From barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu Thu Mar  3 12:49:39 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 09:49:24 -0600 (CST)
From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Pesticide accumulation

Colleagues -

One of the interesting challenges faced by organic agriculture is the
occasional dilemma arising when pesticide residues (usually
chlorinated hydrocarbons, CHCs) show up in an organically grown
product.

I have a general request and a specific request.

The general request is for information and citations concerning which
crops (particularly horticultural crops) are known bioaccumulators of
pesticides and/or heavy metals.

The specific request is for ideas.  I know of several occurrences in
which squashes and pumpkins have shown significant dieldrin residues
while the soils in which they were grown did not.  The tantalizing
curiosity is that while the soils *did* contain CHC residues (mainly
DDT/DDE -- the ratio showed it was old stuff), the squashes and
pumpkins *didn't* accumulate much of anything except the dieldrin.

Any ideas??

These crops were grown *after* dieldrin was withdrawn in 1991 (?).

Anybody know to what extent dieldrin was used as a stable spray ??
Most folks I know use a good dollop of manure for their cucurbit
hills, and if the product was used in stables *that* might be one way
for it to end up in the squash but not show up in the soil.

This one's a real head-scratcher for me, and any assistance will be
greatly appreciated.

Whilst I'm feeling appreciative, thanks to Larry London et al. who
have so far sent me some good stuff on bioremediation.

Regards,

Bart Hall-Beyer,         ):*
Fayetteville, Arkansas

From SIMONS@mbrsbr.agr.ca Thu Mar  3 12:56:52 1994
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:40:54 -0500
From: Richard Simons <SIMONS@mbrsbr.agr.ca>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bioremediation

A few more names of possible contacts :

A.D. (Tony) Bradshaw of the University of Liverpool, L69 3BX, UK, has
worked on heavy metal tolerance in grasses and revegetation of polluted
sites.  He has also worked with revegetation of colliery spoil heaps
and, I believe, of heaps of slate waste.

J.E. Winch, recently retired from Crop Sci. Dept., U. of Guelph,
Ontario, N1G 2W1 (ph (519) 824-4120) has been involved with revegetation
of mine tailings in northern areas of Canada.

Over the past 20-30 years, the city of Swansea, Wales, has made an
impressive job of dealing with heavily-polluted areas, and probably has
built up considerable expertise.

I hope these suggestions are useful.

Richard Simons, Agric. Canada, Brandon, Manitoba
./
../
CGER.Living-Machines
Green.Center.New-Alchemists
NEW/
Ocean.Arks.International
PT-Lumber.faq1.gen-info
PT-Lumber.faq2.CIS
PT-Lumber.faq3.more-gen-info
PT-Lumber.hazards.faq
PT-lumber.hazards
all7.all
aquaculture.listserver*
aquaculture.phillipines.ICLARM
bioremed-list
bioremed.ref
bioremediation
bioremediation.todd*
duckweed.ref
feedback
filelist
hyper.accumulators.001
hyperacc*
hyperacc.doc*
hyperacc1.doc*
hyperacc2.doc*
hyperaccumulators-bioremediation*
hyperaccumulators.news-thread*
journals-articles*
lead-in-soil
new-alchemy-institute.update*
plant-based.wastewater.treatment
plants.001*
plants2treat.wastewater
references.journal
researchers
soil-test.heavy-metals
soil.lead-contamination
sustainability-in-ecology.research-project
toxic.metal.list*

NEW:
./	../	1/	2/	3/	4/

NEW/1:
./			biocontrol.new
../			bioremediation.firms

NEW/2:
./			hyper.accum.new		hyperacc.new.cis
../			hyperacc.new

NEW/3:
./	../

NEW/4:
./	../
total 1408
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 .
drwxr-xr-x  70 london       2560 Sep 18 22:33 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1082 Mar 14  1994 CGER.Living-Machines
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3437 Sep 12 21:59 Geobotany+Biogeochemistry.In.Mineral.Exploration
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2122 Feb 24  1994 Green.Center.New-Alchemists
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1007 Oct  5  1994 John-Todd.OAI.address
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 NEW
-rw-r--r--   1 london       5802 Feb 23  1994 Ocean.Arks.International
-rw-r--r--   1 london       5117 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq1.gen-info
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3861 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq2.CIS
-rw-r--r--   1 london      70579 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq3.more-gen-info
-rw-r--r--   1 london      79557 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.hazards.faq
-rw-r--r--   1 london      66109 Jan 26  1994 PT-lumber.hazards
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Feb  3  1995 RFI
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2944 Apr 11  1995 RFI-arsenic-in-natural-environment
-rw-r--r--   1 london        853 Mar 24  1995 RFI.energy-from-algae-biomass
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1423 Nov  4 20:20 RFI.toxic-metals-in-plants
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1645 Feb 24  1995 Solar.Aquatics-Living.Machines.info
-rw-r--r--   1 london        689 Aug 25 21:27 The.Ark
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1844 Sep  9  1993 air-cleaning.plants.moreinf.1-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london        596 Jul 27  1993 air.cleaning.plants.1-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1723 Dec  8  1994 algae-cultivation-and-nutrient-removal
-rw-r--r--   1 london     330656 Feb 25  1994 all7.all
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london        741 Feb 24  1994 aquaculture.listserver
-rw-r--r--   1 london        926 Mar  2  1994 aquaculture.phillipines.ICLARM
-rw-r--r--   1 london       9186 Nov 10  1994 artificial-wetlands
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1673 Nov 14  1994 artificial-wetlands-bioremediation.www-server
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london       1874 Feb 17  1993 bioremed-1.1-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london        794 Apr 18  1994 bioremed-list
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3199 Jan 18  1994 bioremed.ref
-rw-r--r--   1 london        592 Jan 19  1994 bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1645 Feb 22  1995 bioremediation-of-motor-oil
-rw-r--r--   1 london       4619 Oct  8 00:47 bioremediation-using-fungi
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london       2837 Feb 17  1993 bioremediation.todd
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2222 Jan  4  1995 cobalt-copper.hyperaccumulation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1609 Jan 23  1994 duckweed.ref
-rw-r--r--   1 london       7840 Mar  3  1994 feedback
-rw-r--r--   1 london        944 Jul 27  1994 filelist
-rw-r--r--   1 london          0 Nov  4 20:33 filelist-11-6-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1019 Dec 10  1994 ground-water-remediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2181 Oct 23  1994 home-aquaculture
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2982 Sep  3  1993 hyper.accumulators.001
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      28440 Mar 17  1993 hyperacc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      28318 Dec 19  1992 hyperacc.doc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      26899 Feb 14  1993 hyperacc1.doc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london       1419 Dec 18  1992 hyperacc2.doc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      30497 Feb 14  1993 hyperaccumulators-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       5552 Mar 10  1994 hyperaccumulators.1-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london      42318 Sep 20 23:04 hyperaccumulators.archive-info
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      68112 Apr  4  1993 hyperaccumulators.news-thread
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london      13177 Mar  6  1994 journals-articles
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Jan 15  1995 lead
-rw-r--r--   1 london       8755 Dec 31  1994 lead-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london        684 Sep  5 23:12 lead-bioremediation.with.sour.paspalum.grass
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3968 Mar 14  1994 lead-in-soil
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1043 Apr  4  1995 lettuce+heavy-metals
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Sep 12 21:57 literature
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1323 Feb 24  1995 metal-uptake-in-plants
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Jul 25 00:16 net-resources
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london       5802 Feb 25  1994 new-alchemy-institute.update
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2597 Aug 12 23:52 nickel-hyperaccumulators
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1696 Jan 28  1995 oil-eating-bacteria
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1786 Feb 23  1995 pH+metal-uptake-by-plants
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1654 Sep  8 01:15 petroleum.contamination
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3255 Jan 28  1995 plant-based.air.pollution.control
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1758 May 19  1993 plant-based.pollution.control
-rw-r--r--   1 london       8783 Jan 19  1994 plant-based.wastewater.treatment
-rw-r--r--   1 london       4793 Jan  5  1995 plant-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1035 Jan  5  1995 plant.bioremediation.conference.4-19-95
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3922 May 19  1993 plant.pollution-fighters
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london     380014 Apr 10  1994 plants.001
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1151 Mar 17  1993 plants2treat.wastewater
-rw-r--r--   1 london      11026 Nov 17  1994 reducing-toxics-in-sewage-sludge
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3046 Mar 27  1994 references.journal
-rw-r--r--   1 london       4814 Mar  3  1994 researchers
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1867 Sep 17  1994 saltmarsh-on-barge
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1632 Nov 21  1992 sewage-sludge.land-app
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3731 Jan 26  1994 soil-test.heavy-metals
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3731 Jan 26  1994 soil.lead-contamination
-rw-r--r--   1 london       4299 Apr  9  1995 spiderplants
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1870 Apr 18  1994 sustainability-in-ecology.research-project
-rwxr-xr-x   1 london       2057 Dec 19  1992 toxic.metal.list
-rw-r--r--   1 london      17228 Mar 25  1995 trees+pollution
-rw-r--r--   1 london        793 Oct 12  1994 turf-care-pesticide-leaching
-rw-r--r--   1 london       5042 Nov 28  1994 water-hyacinth.heavy-metal-hyperaccumulation
-rw-r--r--   1 london        689 Oct  4  1994 water-purification.RFI
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Nov 14  1994 wetlands-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2022 Mar 26  1995 wood-ashes-as-fertilizer
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1322 Nov 27  1994 wood-digesting-fungi

NEW:
total 8
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 1
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 2
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 3
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 4

NEW/1:
total 5
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1566 May 19  1993 biocontrol.new
-rw-r--r--   1 london        438 May 19  1993 bioremediation.firms

NEW/2:
total 20
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1151 May 19  1993 hyper.accum.new
-rw-r--r--   1 london       9959 May 19  1993 hyperacc.new
-rw-r--r--   1 london       6090 May 19  1993 hyperacc.new.cis

NEW/3:
total 2
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..

NEW/4:
total 2
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..

RFI:
total 15
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Feb  3  1995 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1078 Nov 18  1994 bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1247 Nov 28  1994 composting-to-clean-contaminated-soils
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1144 Feb  3  1995 fungal-mediated.soil-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2178 Dec  8  1994 groundwater-remediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1805 Nov 10  1994 water-treatment

lead:
total 61
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Jan 15  1995 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london      49753 Jan 15  1995 lead-info-from-PenPages
-rw-r--r--   1 london       7872 Jan 14  1995 lead-info.PenPages-database

literature:
total 19
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Sep 12 21:57 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       3437 Sep 12 21:57 Exploration.Geochemistry.plant-hyperaccumulators
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2677 Nov 28  1994 Handbook-of-Bioremediation
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2201 Sep 11 10:43 biogeochemical.prospecting
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1867 Nov 28  1994 books-newsletters-bbs
-rw-r--r--   1 london       2201 Sep 11 10:44 heavy-metal-tolerance-in-plants

net-resources:
total 6
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Jul 25 00:16 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 london       1558 Jul 25 00:16 plant-picture.www-page

wetlands-bioremediation:
total 4
drwxr-xr-x   2 london        512 Nov 14  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x   8 london       3072 Nov  4 20:33 ..
From 73204.2541@CompuServe.COM Sat Dec 10 16:56:13 EST 1994
Article: 804 of sci.geo.hydrology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!ukma!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.compuserve.com!news
From: Jon Kraft <73204.2541@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: sci.geo.hydrology
Subject: Re: Groundwater remediation info Inte..
Date: 10 Dec 1994 02:38:46 GMT
Organization: George Butler Associates
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3cb4bm$c9d$1@mhadg.production.compuserve.com>
References: <3c4um2$oln@kelly.teleport.com>

Van-

One publication you may wish to check out is *Ground Water Monitoring
and Remediation*.  It is published quarterly by the Ground Water
Publishing Company, 6375 Riverside Drive, Dublin, OH  43017.  I
understand that every issue of this publication is indexed by Ground
Water On Line, the bibliographic database of the National Ground
Water Information Center at (614) 761-3222.

This should get you started.

Jon

-- 
Jon Kraft 73204.2541@compuserve.com


From wbw@shore.net Sun Oct 23 13:36:00 EDT 1994
Article: 2444 of alt.energy.renewable
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!noc.near.net!shore.shore.net!shore.shore.net!not-for-mail
From: wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,alt.energy.renewable
Subject: Re: E-Z Home Aquaculture
Date: 17 Oct 1994 07:24:30 -0400
Organization: North Shore Access; a service of Eco Software, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <37tmte$iq3@shore.shore.net>
References: <37k5f4$adc@shore.shore.net> <JMC.94Oct15083949@sail.stanford.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: shore.shore.net
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:44328 alt.energy.renewable:2444

In article <JMC.94Oct15083949@sail.stanford.edu>,
John McCarthy <jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>In article <37k5f4$adc@shore.shore.net> wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren) writes:
>
>   If one were to grow some tilapia in a solar algae tank or two, pump 
>   the wastewater through a nitrifying tank, and then divert the water 
>   through hydroponically grown grasses, herbs, etc. before returning it to 
>   the fish tank(s), is this water a satisfactory nutrient solution? 
>
>   Does one need to feed the fish a particular food, or a particular variety of
>   foods to obtain a complete nutrient solution for the plants? Or would one 
>   need to regularly add certain trace elements or salts?
>
>   Ideas,Comments,Suggestions,Criticism?
>   Thanks in Advance,
>		    Will
>
>In the simple system you have described, everyone eating the fish
>would get to share the all diseases of everyone contributing to the
>waste.
>-- 
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305

I don't understand... We'd end up with fish diseases? The idea is to 
treat the fish wastewater with hydroponically grown plants, not human 
wastewater.  John, what modifications would you suggest?

On board my 53' biobarge I treat small amounts of human sewage 
biologically in a series of 22 tanks. Almost no pathogens make it through 
my 'marshland' tanks (hydroponically grown spartina).

Perhaps Ma nature knows her stuff,
William



Article 21922 of rec.gardens:
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!stngiam
From: stngiam@athena.mit.edu (Shih-Tung Ngiam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lead from Paint
Date: 28 Aug 1993 22:10:13 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <STNGIAM.93Aug28181013@primavera.mit.edu>
References: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: primavera.mit.edu
In-reply-to: ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com's message of 28 Aug 93 19:05:52 GMT

In article <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com> ebf@cbnewst.cb.att.com (eileen.b.fleming) writes:

>   Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house -- 
>   is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
>   from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

  Fruiting crops are generally less prone to lead uptake than root crops or
leafy vegetables.  However, if the lead level in the soil is very high,
the crops might still contain high levels of lead.  

>   Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
>   in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

  The U Mass Agricultural Extension tests soil for lead in addition to
testing for NPK and other nutrients.  The total cost for all the tests
is $7.50 per sample.  They also analyze plant tissue for lead, at a cost
of $10.  Try calling your county Extension Agent (should be listed under
the county government, in the phone book), for details of the procedure
in your area.

Shih Tung
Chem E
Best l'il Tech School
on the Charles





From ghegyes@nalusda.gov Fri Sep  3 10:23:04 1993
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Hegyes <ghegyes@nalusda.gov>
To: SANET-mg <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Living Machines Conference (fwd)





---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 23:50:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry London <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
To: sustag-public@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Living Machines Conference

Date: Thu,  2 Sep 93 14:58:00 -0400
From: glenn.mcknight@canrem.com (Glenn Mcknight)
Message-Id: <60.869.5225.0N18307E@canrem.com>
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Subject: Living Machines Conference

NOTICE TO MEDIA

The Coalition for a Green Economic Recovery will hold a conference October 1 to
3, l993 to discuss and promote the economic andenvironmental advantages of
living machines.  Living machines are, simplistically, engineered water
ecosystems which use natur
al elements such as sunlight, plants and animals to break down toxins,
concentrate metals and treat organic material in sewage and waste water.
Living machines can be part of clean, simple, economical and environmentally
viable solutions to a number of problems.  They offer less costly alternatives
for municipalities planning to spend billions of taxpayers; dollars on
expansions and new sewage a
nd water treatmen systems.  They do not use chlorine


















Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


-------
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.
>

        I read something about Jimsonweed.

        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1

        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth


From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(

------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to the library I go... 8-)

Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?
> 

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay


rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> 
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI


Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu> 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul  Dietz) writes:
>
>I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>       Paul F. Dietz
>       dietz@cs.rochester.edu

A lady in Germany has researched and catalogued some 250 or so plants
identified as hyperaccumulators. I have a magazine article on John Todd's
experiments with biological sewage treatment systems using some of these
plants along with certain aquatic animals, in partitioned lagoons, in
greenhouses to produce acceptably clean effluent. John started the New
Alchemy Institute.
Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.


Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:

> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.

> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?

> Thank you for any information or references.

> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>


Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants
Lines: 24

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
--MORE--(83%)

and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

End of article 704 (of 704)--what next? [npq] 


Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)


Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 31

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!

--MORE--(64%)

IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca
End of article 708 (of 709)--what next? [npq] 710
Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)


Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Lines: 34

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
                        .
                        .
>>: Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
--MORE--(59%)

                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
                        .
                        .
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546
End of article 710 (of 713)--what next? [npq] 713
Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 20
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712
Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 26
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
: metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probabl
y
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
--MORE--(66%)

crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
End of article 712 (of 713)--what next? [npq] Article 721 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk


Subject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com


Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


        This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
--MORE--(20%)

Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
--MORE--(43%)

single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)
--MORE--(67%)


        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
--MORE--(89%)

against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..
End of article 723 (of 724)--what next? [npq] 727
Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu


Subject: Re: A big hello
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> 
> <some deletions...>
>
--MORE--(54%)

> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??
> 

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

        D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
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--------




Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

 

-------
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.
>

        I read something about Jimsonweed.

        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1

        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth


From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(

------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to the library I go... 8-)

Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?
> 

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay


rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> 
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI


Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu> 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul  Dietz) writes:
>
>I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>       Paul F. Dietz
>       dietz@cs.rochester.edu

A lady in Germany has researched and catalogued some 250 or so plants
identified as hyperaccumulators. I have a magazine article on John Todd's
experiments with biological sewage treatment systems using some of these
plants along with certain aquatic animals, in partitioned lagoons, in
greenhouses to produce acceptably clean effluent. John started the New
Alchemy Institute.
Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.


Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.

Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:

> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.

> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?

> Thank you for any information or references.

> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
From: <MEK104@psuvm.psu.edu>


Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants
Lines: 24

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
--MORE--(83%)

and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

End of article 704 (of 704)--what next? [npq] 


Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)


Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 31

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!

--MORE--(64%)

IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca
End of article 708 (of 709)--what next? [npq] 710
Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)


Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Lines: 34

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
                        .
                        .
>>: Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
--MORE--(59%)

                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
                        .
                        .
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546
End of article 710 (of 713)--what next? [npq] 713
Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 20
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712
Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)


Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 26
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
: metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probabl
y
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
--MORE--(66%)

crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751
End of article 712 (of 713)--what next? [npq] Article 721 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk


Subject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com


Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


        This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
--MORE--(20%)

Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
--MORE--(43%)

single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)
--MORE--(67%)


        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
--MORE--(89%)

against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..
End of article 723 (of 724)--what next? [npq] 727
Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu


Subject: Re: A big hello
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> 
> <some deletions...>
>
--MORE--(54%)

> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??
> 

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

        D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------




Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

 
Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?
Article 3145 of sci.bio.ecology:
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              news" <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.BITNET>
From: UG DILLMAN KAREN L <DILLKARE@lcs.isu.edu>
Subject: lichens and heavy metals
Lines: 16

Hello, I am an undergraduate student in ecology at Idaho State
University in Pocatello, and I am studying lichens and air pollution
around nearby fertilizer industries. I am writing for assistance from
an ecologist who is working with lichens as biomonitors of air
pollution. I have been searching for literature that addresses the
interaction amongst heavy metal accumulations and other elements that
occur naturally in the lichen tissue such as K,Ca, and P. I have
found two books on the subject titled "Lichens and Air Pollution" and
"Physiological Ecology of Lichens". Yet, these were written in the
70's and 80's, and they do not completely describe what I am
searching for. I have checked in the last decades' issues of" The
Bryologist", and most studies are done to report elements found, but
not to draw conclusions concerning interactions of elements detected.
I would appreciate being directed to a researcher who is doing this
kind of work, or a publication that addresses element interactions
with heavy metals. My internet address is dillkare@lcs.isu.edu
Thank you for your time.   Karen Dillman


Article 3164 of sci.bio.ecology:
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From: Richard.L.Boyce@dartmouth.edu (Rick Boyce)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.ecology
Subject: Re: lichens and heavy metals
Date: 9 Mar 1994 14:05:42 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
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In article <8403FC109B@LCS.ISU.EDU>
UG DILLMAN KAREN L <DILLKARE@lcs.isu.edu> writes:

> I have
> found two books on the subject titled "Lichens and Air Pollution" and
> "Physiological Ecology of Lichens". Yet, these were written in the
> 70's and 80's, and they do not completely describe what I am
> searching for. I have checked in the last decades' issues of" The
> Bryologist", and most studies are done to report elements found, but
> not to draw conclusions concerning interactions of elements detected.
> I would appreciate being directed to a researcher who is doing this
> kind of work, or a publication that addresses element interactions
> with heavy metals. 

Tom (T.C.) Hutchinson and his students at the University of Toronto
have been doing a lot of work recently on heavy metal uptake by
lichens.  I know he has published at least some of these articles in
the New Phytologist.  Check out the Science Citation Index or
Biological Abstracts--your librarian can show you how to use them. 
Good luck!
======================================================================
Rick Boyce
Richard.L.Boyce@dartmouth.edu


Article 3166 of sci.bio.ecology:
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From: J. A. Laurence <jal6@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.bio.ecology
Subject: Re: lichens and heavy metals
Date: 9 Mar 1994 21:09:27 GMT
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Subject: lichens and heavy metals From: UG DILLMAN KAREN L,
DILLKARE@lcs.isu.edu Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 09:13:00 EST In article
<8403FC109B@LCS.ISU.EDU> UG DILLMAN KAREN L, DILLKARE@lcs.isu.edu writes:
>Hello, I am an undergraduate student in ecology at Idaho State
>University
in Pocatello, and I am studying lichens and air pollution >around nearby
fertilizer industries. I am writing for assistance from >an ecologist who
is working with lichens as biomonitors of air >pollution. I have been
searching for literature that addresses the stuff deleted

Hi, Check also the German literature.  There is a book on biomonitoring by
Uwe Arndt.  Lichens are used as regular parts of biomonitoring netowrks
all
over Germany as well as other countries in Europe.  The problem might be
that since the networks were established some time ago, only periodic
reports of results would be published, and most likely in German.  You
might check for reports of institutes such as the Landesanstalt fur
Immissionsschutz in Essen.
JL


J. A. Laurence                
Boyce Thompson Institute for Plant Research  
Ithaca, NY  14853-1801  USA 
607-254-1215                    
607-254-1242  FAX
*****************************
Thanks to the interstate highway system,it is
now possible to travel coast to coast without 
seeing anything--Charles Kuralt


------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence F. London, Jr. - london@sunSITE.unc.edu 
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/The_Sustainable_Farmstead.html
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.html
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.faq
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/sunSITE-PC-mailarchive
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/PCINet.html
------------------------------------------------------------


-
The_Sustainable_Farmstead.html will provide access to the files 
(they are in the sustainable agriculture gopher and ftp archives) or you 
may ftp or gopher to them directly. Use your web browser and surf to:

gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/
         aquaculture-bioremediation-hyperaccumulators/
or -

ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/
      aquaculture-bioremediation-hyperaccumulators/

-
here is the list of files and directories in the archive:
=

total 1359
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 .
drwxr-xr-x 70 london       2560 Sep 18 22:33 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1082 Mar 14  1994 CGER.Living-Machines
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3437 Sep 12 21:59 Geobotany+Biogeochemistry.In.Mineral.Exploration
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2122 Feb 24  1994 Green.Center.New-Alchemists
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1007 Oct  5  1994 John-Todd.OAI.address
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 NEW
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5802 Feb 23  1994 Ocean.Arks.International
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5117 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq1.gen-info
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3861 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq2.CIS
-rw-r--r--  1 london      70579 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.faq3.more-gen-info
-rw-r--r--  1 london      79557 Apr 18  1994 PT-Lumber.hazards.faq
-rw-r--r--  1 london      66109 Jan 26  1994 PT-lumber.hazards
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Feb  3  1995 RFI
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2944 Apr 11 22:45 RFI-arsenic-in-natural-environment
-rw-r--r--  1 london        853 Mar 24  1995 RFI.energy-from-algae-biomass
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1645 Feb 24  1995 Solar.Aquatics-Living.Machines.info
-rw-r--r--  1 london        689 Aug 25 21:27 The.Ark
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1844 Sep  9  1993 air-cleaning.plants.moreinf.1-95
-rw-r--r--  1 london        596 Jul 27  1993 air.cleaning.plants.1-95
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1723 Dec  8  1994 algae-cultivation-and-nutrient-removal
-rw-r--r--  1 london     330656 Feb 25  1994 all7.all
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        741 Feb 24  1994 aquaculture.listserver
-rw-r--r--  1 london        926 Mar  2  1994 aquaculture.phillipines.ICLARM
-rw-r--r--  1 london       9186 Nov 10  1994 artificial-wetlands
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1673 Nov 14  1994 artificial-wetlands-bioremediation.www-server
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1874 Feb 17  1993 bioremed-1.1-95
-rw-r--r--  1 london        794 Apr 18  1994 bioremed-list
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3199 Jan 18  1994 bioremed.ref
-rw-r--r--  1 london        592 Jan 19  1994 bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1645 Feb 22  1995 bioremediation-of-motor-oil
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2837 Feb 17  1993 bioremediation.todd
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2222 Jan  4  1995 cobalt-copper.hyperaccumulation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1609 Jan 23  1994 duckweed.ref
-rw-r--r--  1 london       7840 Mar  3  1994 feedback
-rw-r--r--  1 london        944 Jul 27  1994 filelist
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1019 Dec 10  1994 ground-water-remediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2181 Oct 23  1994 home-aquaculture
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2982 Sep  3  1993 hyper.accumulators.001
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      28440 Mar 17  1993 hyperacc
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      28318 Dec 19  1992 hyperacc.doc
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      26899 Feb 14  1993 hyperacc1.doc
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1419 Dec 18  1992 hyperacc2.doc
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      30497 Feb 14  1993 hyperaccumulators-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5552 Mar 10  1994 hyperaccumulators.1-95
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      68112 Apr  4  1993 hyperaccumulators.news-thread
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      13177 Mar  6  1994 journals-articles
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jan 15  1995 lead
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8755 Dec 31  1994 lead-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london        684 Sep  5 23:12 lead-bioremediation.with.sour.paspalum.grass
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3968 Mar 14  1994 lead-in-soil
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1043 Apr  4 09:40 lettuce+heavy-metals
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Sep 12 21:57 literature
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1323 Feb 24  1995 metal-uptake-in-plants
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jul 25 00:16 net-resources
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       5802 Feb 25  1994 new-alchemy-institute.update
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2597 Aug 12 23:52 nickel-hyperaccumulators
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1696 Jan 28  1995 oil-eating-bacteria
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1786 Feb 23  1995 pH+metal-uptake-by-plants
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1654 Sep  8 01:15 petroleum.contamination
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3255 Jan 28  1995 plant-based.air.pollution.control
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1758 May 19  1993 plant-based.pollution.control
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8783 Jan 19  1994 plant-based.wastewater.treatment
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4793 Jan  5  1995 plant-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1035 Jan  5  1995 plant.bioremediation.conference.4-19-95
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3922 May 19  1993 plant.pollution-fighters
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     380014 Apr 10  1994 plants.001
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1151 Mar 17  1993 plants2treat.wastewater
-rw-r--r--  1 london      11026 Nov 17  1994 reducing-toxics-in-sewage-sludge
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3046 Mar 27  1994 references.journal
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4814 Mar  3  1994 researchers
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1867 Sep 17  1994 saltmarsh-on-barge
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1632 Nov 21  1992 sewage-sludge.land-app
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3731 Jan 26  1994 soil-test.heavy-metals
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3731 Jan 26  1994 soil.lead-contamination
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4299 Apr  9 23:28 spiderplants
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1870 Apr 18  1994 sustainability-in-ecology.research-project
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2057 Dec 19  1992 toxic.metal.list
-rw-r--r--  1 london      17228 Mar 25 10:57 trees+pollution
-rw-r--r--  1 london        793 Oct 12  1994 turf-care-pesticide-leaching
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5042 Nov 28  1994 water-hyacinth.heavy-metal-hyperaccumulation
-rw-r--r--  1 london        689 Oct  4  1994 water-purification.RFI
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov 14  1994 wetlands-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2022 Mar 26 12:16 wood-ashes-as-fertilizer
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1322 Nov 27  1994 wood-digesting-fungi

NEW:
total 8
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 1
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 2
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 3
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 4

NEW/1:
total 5
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1566 May 19  1993 biocontrol.new
-rw-r--r--  1 london        438 May 19  1993 bioremediation.firms

NEW/2:
total 20
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1151 May 19  1993 hyper.accum.new
-rw-r--r--  1 london       9959 May 19  1993 hyperacc.new
-rw-r--r--  1 london       6090 May 19  1993 hyperacc.new.cis

NEW/3:
total 2
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..

NEW/4:
total 2
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Mar  6  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Mar  6  1994 ..

RFI:
total 15
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Feb  3  1995 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1078 Nov 18  1994 bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1247 Nov 28  1994 composting-to-clean-contaminated-soils
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1144 Feb  3  1995 fungal-mediated.soil-bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2178 Dec  8  1994 groundwater-remediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1805 Nov 10  1994 water-treatment

lead:
total 61
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jan 15  1995 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london      49753 Jan 15  1995 lead-info-from-PenPages
-rw-r--r--  1 london       7872 Jan 14  1995 lead-info.PenPages-database

literature:
total 19
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Sep 12 21:57 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3437 Sep 12 21:57 Exploration.Geochemistry.plant-hyperaccumulators
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2677 Nov 28  1994 Handbook-of-Bioremediation
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2201 Sep 11 10:43 biogeochemical.prospecting
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1867 Nov 28  1994 books-newsletters-bbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2201 Sep 11 10:44 heavy-metal-tolerance-in-plants

net-resources:
total 6
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Jul 25 00:16 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1558 Jul 25 00:16 plant-picture.www-page

wetlands-bioremediation:
total 4
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov 14  1994 .
drwxr-xr-x  8 london       3072 Sep 12 21:59 ..
=

here is the contents of /literature:
-

-From curtiss@asdi.com Tue Sep 12 21:57:46 EDT 1995
Article: 494 of sci.bio.botany
From: curtiss@asdi.com (Brian Curtiss)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio.botany
Subject: Re: Biogeology [Was: Plants and Pb]
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:20:26 -0700
Organization: Analytical Spectral Devices, Inc.

In article <DEoo2C.AKx@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au>,
staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Ian B Staples) wrote:

> "Gordon A. Fox" <gfox@ucsd.edu> writes:
> >hortus@ix.netcom.com (Joel Kroin ) wrote:
> >>Many years ago some researchers found some plants which have an
> >>affinity to absorb gold from soil over gold mine trailings. The process
> >>was not economically feasible. I doubt if further work was done.
> 
> >I don't know about anyone being foolish enough to try to make money this 
> >way, but I do know that (1) a lot of mineral exploration has been done 
> >based on plants w/ known tolerances for particular minerals, and that did 
> >pay off, at least some of the time, and (2) there's now a growing body of 
> >experience in which plants are used for remediating contaminated soils. 
> >There are obviously limitations and problems, but I don't think the idea 
> >is one that should be scoffed at.
> 
> A couple of (rather old) references for those interested in this topic:
> 
> BROOKS, R.R. (1968).  Biogeochemical prospecting in New Zealand.
>         _NZ Sci. Review_ v.26(1): 9-12
> 
> ANTONOVICS, J., BRADSHAW, A.D., and TURNER, R.G. (1971). Heavy metal
>         tolerance in plants.  _Advances in Ecological Research_ v.7: 1-85.
> 
> The former refers, for example, to "... species such as _Viola calamina_,
> which grow only over zinc deposits in Western and Central Europe."
> 
several other references on this topic:

Levinson, A.A. (1974) Introduction to Exploration Geochemistry. Applied
Publishing Ltd., Wilmette, Illinois, U.S.A.

    --- this book has a section on the use of vegetation surveys (that is
where veg. samples are analyzed for their chemical content).  The idea is
that some plants concentrate particular elements above what would be found
in the soil.  Also, a tree's root system "samples" to a greater depth than
could be done by digging a soil pit.

A book by Brooks that might be a bit easier to find than the article
listed by the previous poster:

Brooks, R.R. (1972) Geobotany and Biogeochemistry in Mineral Exploration.
Harper and Row.

Hope this helps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                           Brian Curtiss  curtiss@asdi.com
                /\        
               /  \        Analytical Spectral Devices, Inc.
              /    \       4760 Walnut Street, Suite 105
         /\/\/\/\/  \      Boulder, Colorado 80301 U.S.A.
            /        \     303-444-6522   FAX: 303-444-6825
           /__________\   
                           WWW --- http://www.asdi.com/asd
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-From rs6779@cehpx8.cen.uiuc.edu Mon Nov 28 22:57:23 EST 1994
Article: 26 of sci.bio.microbiology
From: rs6779@cehpx8.cen.uiuc.edu (Bob Solak)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.microbiology
Subject: Handbook of Bioremediation
Date: 21 Nov 1994 18:27:05 GMT
Organization: UIUC Engineering Workstation Labs

I talked to the geochemist that I got the Handbook from and he did not have
any gues as to how to get a copy except to inquire from the publisher. Although
the report is funded by the EPA it carries no report number and so I don't think
that it can be obtained through whatever government publications process is in
place for run-of-the-mill reports. I've included below all the information found
on the inside of the title page. A university bookstore should be able to purchase
the book directly from the publisher but I've been informed that this can get 
expensive. Stay tuned in the coming days for more information on how to get a copy.
I'm planning to talk to some professors in the Department to see if they received 
a copy and if so, the sender may have indicated how to get more copies.

Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publications Data

Handbook of bioremediation/ by Robert D. Norris ... [et al.]
  (Robert S. Kerr Environmental Research Laboratory).
      p.   cm.
    Includes bibliographical references and index.
    ISBN 1-56670-074-4
    1. Soil remediation  2. Groundwater--Purification  3. In situ 
  bioremediation  I. Norris, Robert D.  II. Robert S. Kerr
  Environmental Research Laboratory
  TD878.H36    1993
  628.5'2--dc20                                          93-21172
                                                             CIP 


much deleted
...information in this documentation has been funded wholly or in part by
the United States Environmental Protection Agency under Contract NO.
68-C8-0058 ton Dynamic Corporation.....
Direcct all inquiries (concerning copying permission) to CRC Press, Inc.,
2000 Corporate Blvd., N.W., Boca Raton, Florida 33431

Copyright 1994 by CRC Press, Inc.
Lewis Publishers is an imprint of CRC Press

No claim to U.S. Government works
International Standard Book Number 1-56670-074-4
Library of Congeress Card Number 93-21172
Printed in United States of America    2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
 

I would hold off on trying to buy a copy until I talk to my professors and
find out if there is a cheaper way.

Bob Solak 
Environmental Engineering
University of Illinois
rs6779@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu 


-From staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au Mon Sep 11 10:43:45 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio.botany
From: staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Ian B Staples)
Subject: Biogeology [Was: Plants and Pb]
Organization: Qld Department of Primary Industries
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 09:37:23 GMT

"Gordon A. Fox" <gfox@ucsd.edu> writes:
>hortus@ix.netcom.com (Joel Kroin ) wrote:
>>Many years ago some researchers found some plants which have an
>>affinity to absorb gold from soil over gold mine trailings. The process
>>was not economically feasible. I doubt if further work was done.

>I don't know about anyone being foolish enough to try to make money this 
>way, but I do know that (1) a lot of mineral exploration has been done 
>based on plants w/ known tolerances for particular minerals, and that did 
>pay off, at least some of the time, and (2) there's now a growing body of 
>experience in which plants are used for remediating contaminated soils. 
>There are obviously limitations and problems, but I don't think the idea 
>is one that should be scoffed at.

A couple of (rather old) references for those interested in this topic:

BROOKS, R.R. (1968).  Biogeochemical prospecting in New Zealand.
	_NZ Sci. Review_ v.26(1): 9-12

ANTONOVICS, J., BRADSHAW, A.D., and TURNER, R.G. (1971). Heavy metal
	tolerance in plants.  _Advances in Ecological Research_ v.7: 1-85.

The former refers, for example, to "... species such as _Viola calamina_,
which grow only over zinc deposits in Western and Central Europe."

Cheers,  Ian S.
-- 

Ian Staples                        E-mail : I.Staples@dpi.qld.gov.au
c/- P.O. Box 1054 MAREEBA          Phone  : +61 (0)70 928 555 Home 924 847
Queensland Australia 4880            Fax  : +61 (0)70 923 593   "   "   "


-From seachild@earthlink.net Mon Nov 28 23:05:29 EST 1994
From: seachild@earthlink.net (Sean Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.microbiology
Subject: bioremediation
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:47:58 -0800
Organization: Ecobeach

Greetings!

Just found this group and was startled to see at least 4 messages on
BIOREMEDIATION.  From what I gather, there is not a specific newsgroup for
this topic, but I wonder if there isn't sufficient interest to start one. 
At least this forum is a good place to start.

Thanks, Bob, for the info on the Handbook of Bioremediation.  You might
also check out: 

"In situ bioremediation: When does it work?" by the National Research
Council, 1993, National Academy Press.

"Biotreatment of Industrial and Hazardous Waste" by Morris Leavin and
Michael Gealt, McGraw-Hill, 1993.

"Guide for Assessing and Remediating Petroleum Hydrocarbons in Soils",
American Petroleum Institute, API Publication 1629, 1993.


You might also be interested to know that the EPA maintains a BBS
dedicated to bioremediation, avaliable through ATTIC (Alternative
Treatment Technology Information CLearinghouse:  Dial 703-908-2138, 2400,
N,8,1).  They also publish a FREE monthly publication called
"Bioremediation in the Field" which you may request over the phone.

Finally, I have some references from Kimberly Ogden at the University of
Arizonea, Department of Chemical Engineering, on RDX and TNT degradation. 
She does a variety of work on plasmid isolation as well.

Keep me posted.

Sean Chamberlin
seachild@earthlink.net


-From staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au Mon Sep 11 10:44:33 EDT 1995
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,sci.bio.botany
From: staplei@planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Ian B Staples)
Subject: Biogeology [Was: Plants and Pb]
Organization: Qld Department of Primary Industries
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 09:37:23 GMT

"Gordon A. Fox" <gfox@ucsd.edu> writes:
>hortus@ix.netcom.com (Joel Kroin ) wrote:
>>Many years ago some researchers found some plants which have an
>>affinity to absorb gold from soil over gold mine trailings. The process
>>was not economically feasible. I doubt if further work was done.

>I don't know about anyone being foolish enough to try to make money this 
>way, but I do know that (1) a lot of mineral exploration has been done 
>based on plants w/ known tolerances for particular minerals, and that did 
>pay off, at least some of the time, and (2) there's now a growing body of 
>experience in which plants are used for remediating contaminated soils. 
>There are obviously limitations and problems, but I don't think the idea 
>is one that should be scoffed at.

A couple of (rather old) references for those interested in this topic:

BROOKS, R.R. (1968).  Biogeochemical prospecting in New Zealand.
	_NZ Sci. Review_ v.26(1): 9-12

ANTONOVICS, J., BRADSHAW, A.D., and TURNER, R.G. (1971). Heavy metal
	tolerance in plants.  _Advances in Ecological Research_ v.7: 1-85.

The former refers, for example, to "... species such as _Viola calamina_,
which grow only over zinc deposits in Western and Central Europe."

Cheers,  Ian S.

-- 
Ian Staples                        E-mail : I.Staples@dpi.qld.gov.au
c/- P.O. Box 1054 MAREEBA          Phone  : +61 (0)70 928 555 Home 924 847
Queensland Australia 4880            Fax  : +61 (0)70 923 593   "   "   "

=================


or use the GUIDE below to access the archives. Let me know if you need 
any further help.

Lawrence
-
------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence F. London, Jr. - london@sunSITE.unc.edu 
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/The_Sustainable_Farmstead.html
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.html
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.faq
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/sunSITE-PC-mailarchive
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/PCINet.html
------------------------------------------------------------
-
[some of the following information in GUIDE may be inaccurate;
 an updated version is in the works - you can access all my archives
 from my top WebPage: The_Sustainable_Farmstead.html]

This document (GUIDE) is the August 6, 1995 update of:
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/GUIDE
http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/GUIDE
For more information contact Lawrence London, london@sunSITE.unc.edu.

____________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Accessing FAQs and Selected Information Resources at sunSITE.unc.edu
____________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------

World Wide Web (lynx available via telnet for vt100 users)
URL info:
  http://sunsite.unc.edu/london/Information_By_Topic.html
  http://sunsite.unc.edu/london/Rec.Gardens-FAQs.html
  http://sunsite.unc.edu/london/Herb_Archives.html
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/agriculture/
         sustainable_agriculture/
         [add gardening/gardening-faqs/ to the path for the rec.gardens FAQs]
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/agriculture/rural-skills/
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/environment/
         alternative-energy/energy-resources/
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/
  gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/.pub/academic/environment/pesticide-education/
  ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/
        [add gardening/gardening-faqs/ to the path for the rec.gardens FAQs]
  ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/rural-skills/
  ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/
        [the herb archives are here]
  ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/
        energy-resources/
  ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/environment/pesticide-education/

Anonymous FTP:
  ftp sunSITE.unc.edu
  Login: anonymous
  Password: (enter your Internet e-mail ID)
  cd pub/academic
    cd agriculture/sustainable_agriculture
      cd gardening/gardening-faqs
  cd pub/academic/agriculture/rural-skills
  cd pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare
    cd herbal-references or herbal-medicine or Herb-Research-Foundation
  cd pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/energy-resources
  cd pub/academic/environment/pesticide-education

WAIS (available via telnet, follow login instructions)
Ftpmail (Send e-mail to ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu for help file on ftpmail usage)

Gopher: (gopher sunSITE.unc.edu)
The Worlds of sunSITE
  Sustainable Agriculture Information
    gardening
      gardening-faqs
  links to:
    Rural Skills: etc.
    Alternative Energy
    Alternative Healthcare and herb information
    Pesticide Education
    - other Gopher sites with ag/gardening information

The Worlds of SunSITE
  browse sunSITE archives
    academic
      agriculture
        sustainable_agriculture
          gardening
            gardening-faqs
      rural-skills

The Worlds of sunSITE
  browse sunSITE archives
    academic
      environment
        alternative energy
          energy-resources
      pesticide-education

The Worlds of sunSITE
  browse sunSITE archives
    academic
      medicine
        alternative healthcare
          herbal-references or herbal-medicine or Herb-Research-Foundation

__________________
------------------
About the Archives
__________________
------------------

Newsgroup, mailing-list, newsletter archives/documents/FAQs on
sustainable agriculture, permaculture, IPM, landscaping, gardening,
farming, rural skills, horticulture, metalworking, woodworking, weather,
housebuilding, food, cooking, nutrition, ecology, environment, pesticide
education, health-safety-welfare, beekeeping, food preservation,
alternative: healthcare, energy, architecture, housing, communities
and many other related topics.

Partial list of topics
----------------------
historic food
food preserving
health-safety-welfare
sourdough bread-yoghurt-kraut-fermented foods
vegetarian cooking
alternative architecture
alternative/co-housing, sustainable/intentional communities - co-operatives
alternative healthcare
health and safety faqs
sustainable agriculture
gardening-farming-rural life
gardening faqs
landscaping-landscape architecture
permaculture
integrated pest management
hydrology
meteorology
beekeeping
hydroponics
biological pest control
mycology
botany
vermiculture
wildlife
hydroponics
aquaponics
bioremediation
aquaculture
guides to Internet agriculture/healthcare/environment/biology resources
homeopathy
ayurveda
nutrition
meditation

FAQ archives [partial list - see all directories labeled /faqs for others]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
rec.gardens (/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/gardening/gardening-faqs)
misc.rural (/agriculture/rural-skills/faqs)
rec.food.sourdough (/agriculture/rural-skills/food/sourdough/faqs)
rec.food.veg (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
rec.crafts.metalworking (/agriculture/rural-skills/metalworking/faqs)
rec.woodworking (/agriculture/rural-skills/woodworking/faqs)
alternative energy (/environment/alternative-energy/miscellaneous)
sci.energy.hydrogen (/environment/alternative-energy/miscellaneous)
alt.meditation (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
alt.co-ops (/environment/energy-resources/faqs
alt.housing.nontrad (/environment/energy-resources/faqs
alt.folklore.herbs (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbal-references/faqs)
sci.life-extension (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
vegetarian (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
sci.agriculture.beekeeping 
  (/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/wildlife/bees/faqs)
rec.food.preserving (/agriculture/rural-skills/food/food-preserving/faqs)
alt.backrubs (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
alt.med.allergy (/medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)
alt.support.asthma (medicine/alternative-healthcare/faqs)

Mail Archives:
--------------

Mailing lists of interest:

List name: sustag-public (sustainable agriculture)
  Server: almanac@ces.ncsu.edu
  Post articles to: sustag-public@ces.ncsu.edu
List name: sanet-mg (Sustainable Agriculture Network mail group)
  Server: almanac@ces.ncsu.edu
  Post articles to: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
List name: forage-mg (forage crops)
  Server: almanac@oes.orst.edu
  Post articles to: forage-mg@oes.orst.edu
List name: forage-quality-mg (forage crop quality)
  Server: almanac@oes.orst.edu
  Post articles to: forage-quality-mg@oes.orst.edu
List name: ipm-mg (integrated pest management)
  Server: almanac@ces.ncsu.edu
  Post articles to: ipm-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
List name: permaculture-mg (permaculture)
  Server: almanac@ces.ncsu.edu
  Post articles to: permaculture-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
List name: agmetnet (meteorology)
  Server: almanac@awis.auburn.edu
  Post articles to: agmetnet@awis.auburn.edu

Also available from almanac@ces.ncsu.edu:

renew-energy (Renewable Energy), renew-energy@ces.ncsu.edu
nc-solar (North Carolina Solar Energy Resources),
          nc-solar@ces.ncsu.edu

Additional mailing lists of interest:

[/net-resources will contain more information on many of these lists]
wetnet  soils-l  agmodels-l  agric-l  envst-l  grasses  bee-l  dairy-l
hydro-l  devel-l  indknow-l  aqua-l  maxlife  marine-l  gardens-l
cohousing-l  pot-mod-l  trickle-l  mgarden-l lakes-l sustag-l

Newsletters (partial list):

American Garden Newsletter  ipmnet-news  aanews  aosa.news  ben  panups
safefood-news  susag-news  vita-news  altag-news  apis  attranews-digest
cgiar-news  csas-news  food-safety-week  handsnet-news  leopold-center-news
wsaa-news ....and many others

Newsgroup archives:

sci.agriculture
sci.agriculture.beekeeping
alt.sustainable.agriculture
alt.agriculture.misc
alt.agriculture.fruit
rec.ponds
sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera
alt.landscape.architecture
rec.gardens
misc.rural
rec.food.preservation
sci.bio
sci.bio.ecology
sci.geo.geology
sci.geo.meteorology
sci.geo.hydrology
sci.aquaria
rec.aquaria
bionet plants
bionet mycology
bionet.biology.grasses
bionet photosynthesis
bionet cellbiology
bionet general
bionet.agroforestry
bionet.n2-fixation
bionet.biology.tropical

alt.architecture.alternative
alt.housing.nontrad
sci.energy
sci.energy.hydrogen
alt.energy.renewable
alt.solar.thermal
sci.engr.lighting

misc.health.alternative
alt.aromatherapy
sci.life-extension
alt.health.ayurveda
alt.folklore.gemstones
alt.folklore.herbs
alt.co-evolution
alt.meditation
alt.consciousness.mysticism
rec.food.veg
rec.food.veg.cooking
sci.med.nutrition
alt.food.fat-free
alt.support.asthma
alt.med.allergy

___________________________________
PERMACULTURE-MG mailing list USAGE:

TO SUBSCRIBE, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu 
   with the message:
   subscribe permaculture-mg   

TO UNSUBSCRIBE, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message:
   unsubscribe permaculture-mg

TO SEND A MESSAGE to everyone subscribed to the list, i.e. to submit 
   your article to the mailing list, send e-mail to:
   permaculture-mg@ces.ncsu.edu

TO RECEIVE MORE INFORMATION, on Almanac commands send e-mail
   to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message:
         send guide
   The Almanac System Administrator for NCCES is:
   almanac-admin@ces.ncsu.edu

From steved@calypso-2.oit.unc.eduTue Sep  5 13:42:15 1995
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:55:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Diver <steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
Subject: Permaculture FAQ

            PERMACULTURE FAQ   Version 1.0
                  September 1995

*  This Permaculture FAQ is divided into two parts:  
   (1) introduction to permaculture, and (2) permaculture 
   resources

*  This FAQ was drafted for the permaculture-mg list

   
               INTRODUCTION TO PERMACULTURE

The word "permaculture" was coined in 1978 by two Australians, 
Bill Mollison and David Holmgren, and is a contraction of "permanent 
agriculture" or "permanent agriculture." 

Permaculture is about designing ecological human habitats and food 
production systems.  It is an approach to land use which integrates
human dwellings, microclimate, annual and perennial plants,
animals, soils, and water management into stable, productive
communities.  

==================================================================
Permaculture Defined: 

1. From Michael Pilarksi (Friends of the Trees) in
   INTERNATIONAL GREEN FRONT REPORT (1988):  

     Permaculture is: the design of land use systems that are
     sustainable and environmentally sound; the design of
     culturally appropriate systems which lead to social stability;
     a design system characterized by an integrated application of
     ecological principles in land use; an international movement
     for land use planning and design; an ethical system stressing 
     positivism and cooperation.  

     In the broadest sense, permaculture refers to land use systems
     which promote stability in society, utilize resources in a
     sustainable way and preserve wildlife habitat and the genetic
     diversity of wild and domestic plants and animals.  It is a
     synthesis of ecology and geography, of observation and design. 
     Permaculture involves ethics of earth care because the
     sustainable use of land cannot be separated from life-styles
     and philosophical issues. 

2. From Lee Barnes (Katuah Journal and Permaculture Connections), 
   Waynesville, North Carolina:

     Permaculture ("Perm"anent "agri"culture and "Perma"nent "culture") 
     is a sustainable design system stressing the harmonious 
     interrelationship of humans, plants, animals and the Earth. To 
     paraphrase the founder of Permaculture, designer Bill Mollison:

     "Permaculture principles focus on thoughtful designs for small-scale
     intensive systems which are labor efficient and which use biological 
     resources instead of fossil fuels. Designs stress ecological 
     connections and closed energy and material loops. The core of 
     permaculture is design and the working relationships and connections 
     between all things. Each component in a system performs multiple 
     functions, and each function is supported by many elements. Key to 
     efficient design is observation and replication of natural ecosystems, 
     where designers maximize diversity with polycultures, stress 
     efficient energy planning for houses and settlement, using and 
     accelerating natural plant succession, and increasing the highly 
     productive "edge-zones" within the system."
   
     Permaculture designs have been successfully and widely implemented 
     in third-world countries, but there is current need to expand these 
     principles in temperate climates, and especially urban areas to 
     create more enjoyable and sustainable human habitats. 

=================================================================

A central theme in permaculture is the design of ecological
landscapes that produce food.  Permaculture design concepts may be
applied to single households or whole farms and villages.  A major
emphasis is placed on use of food-producing plants and in the
integration of animals into the landscape. 

Permaculture is not limited to just plant and animal agriculture. 
It also includes community planning and development, use of
appropriate technologies (coupled with an adjustment of life-style), 
and adoption of concepts and philosophies that are both earth-based 
and people-centered, such as bio-regionalism. 

Many of the appropriate technologies advocated by permaculturalists 
are well-known.  Among these are solar and wind power, composting 
toilets, and solar food cooking and drying.  Information on renewable 
technologies such as these is available from a number of other
sources.   

Due to the inherent sustainability of perennial cropping systems,
permaculture places emphasis on tree crops. Thus, alleycropping and 
agroforestry systems appear to hold promise as viable techniques for 
large-scale farming.  Ecological methods of production for any specific 
crop or farming system are, of course, vital to permaculture and 
sustainable agriculture in general.

Since permaculture is not a production system, per se, but rather
a land use planning philosophy, it is not limited to a specific
method of production.  Furthermore, as permaculture principles may
be adapted to farms or villages worldwide, it is site specific and
therefore amenable to locally adapted techniques of production.  

As an example, standard organic farming and gardening techniques
utilizing crop rotations, cover crops, green manures, composts,
and mulches are emphasized in permacultural systems.  Yet,
the use of the Keyline chisel plow, rotational grazing,
the Aerway implement in no-till farming, and a whole number
of other techniques are adaptable to farms working within
a permacultural framework.  The decision as to which "system" to 
go with is site-specific and management dependent.  

Farming systems and methods often associated with permaculture include 
edible landscaping, Keyline, agroforestry, keyhold gardening, sheet 
mulching, chicken tractors, solar greenhouses, vermicomposting, spiral 
herb gardens, swales, and intercropping.  Water collection and management 
systems like greywater, rain catchment, and Keyline play an important 
role in land use designs.  

Permaculture is not about prescription farming, it's about
designing ecological landscapes that integrate farming and other
human activities into ecosystems with productive results yet
minimal disturbance.  Permaculture advocates farm ecology, not 
pharmacology.

                   Sources of Information 

The two basic sources of information on permaculture are
permaculture design courses and the permaculture literature. 

Permaculture design courses are the primary vehicle for transfer
of permaculture expertise.  The standard course is 72-hours in
length and lasts two weeks.  Graduates are issued a permaculture
design certificate and are entitled to use "Permaculture" in the
pursuit of livelihood and for educational purposes. 

The permaculture literature is a rich source of information on a 
wide range of topics dealing with appropriate technology,
water management, land use, housing, and plant and animal agriculture.  


                   PERMACULTURE RESOURCES 

THE PERMACULTURE INSTITUTE 

The Permaculture Institute in Tyalgum, Australia, serves as the
coordinating organization for permaculture activities such as
permaculture design accreditation.  Contact:

     Permaculture Institute
     P.O. Box 1
     Tyalgum, NSW  2484
     Australia
     Phone:  (066) 793 442

          PERMACULTURE RESOURCES IN THE UNITED STATES:

THE PERMACULTURE ACTIVIST 
Contact: Peter Bane
Box 1209
Black Mountain, NC  28711
(704) 683-4946
Cost:  $16.00, quarterly

     THE PERMACULTURE ACTIVIST is the leading periodical for
     North American permaculture.  In addition to articles on
     permaculture, edible landscaping, bioregionalism, etc., it
     also lists permaculture design courses and serves as an
     important networking tool in the U.S., Canada, and Central
     America.

THE INTERNATIONAL PERMACULTURE SOLUTIONS JOURNAL (TIPS) 
Yankee Permaculture/Elfin Permaculture, and 
Forest Ecosystem Rescue Network (FERN)
Contact: Dan Hemenway
P.O. Box 672
Dahlonega, GA 30533-0672
Cost: $27.50/four issues

     TIPS is published on a sporadic basis.  A yearbook
     called THE INTERNATIONAL PERMACULTURE SPECIES YEARBOOK
     (TIPSY) was the format prior to TIPS.  The TIPSY
     series is a goldmine of permaculture information and
     resources; most notable are several lists of plants and
     their uses.  Back issues are still available. 

     FERN publishes a permaculture newsletter called ROBIN, which is 
     concerned mainly with forest issues. 
    
     Yankee Permaculture also publishes THE RESOURCES OF
     INTERNATIONAL PERMACULTURE - TRIP.  Volume 5 of TRIP,
     published in 1993, is a 68-page issue that contains 1,540
     listings of groups working in permaculture, sustainable food
     systems, and tree-based agriculture.

RESTORATION FORESTRY 
Friends of the Trees
Contact:  Michael Pilarski
P. O. Box 4469
Bellingham, WA   98227
(206) 738-4972
Cost:  $7.00

     RESTORATION FORESTRY (1994) is a 525-page International
     Guide to Sustainable Forestry Practices.  It is rich
     with ideas, practices, and resources. 

     Other key publications from Friends of the Trees include the
     THE INTERNATIONAL GREEN FRONT REPORT (1988, $7.00),
     KIWIFRUIT ENTHUSIASTS JOURNAL (Vol. 6, $17.20) and THIRD
     WORLD RESOURCES (1993, $5.00).  Friends of the Trees Society also
     publishes a newsletter.  

SUSTAINABLE LIVING IN DRYLANDS (SLID)
Permaculture Drylands Institute
Contact:  Scott Pittman
P.O. Box 27371 
Tucson, AZ  85726
(602) 623-0054
Cost: $12.00, quarterly

     SLID is a newsletter/journal focusing on permaculture concepts 
     and designs for arid lands.  SLID has published articles on straw 
     bale buildings, solar box cookers, and dryland farming.  

TEMPERATE BAMBOO QUARTERLY  
Earth Advocates
30 Myers Road
Summertown, TN  38483 
Cost:  $24/year

     TEMPERATE BAMBOO QUARTERLY is a new publication from Earth Advocates, 
     a permaculture team run by Sue and Adam Turtle.  It focuses on the
     bamboo plant which has unique, important multi-purpose uses.  


                  PERMACULTURE RESOURCES IN AUSTALIA: 

INTERNATIONAL PERMACULTURE JOURNAL   
Permaculture International Ltd.
P.O. Box 7185
Lismore Heights, NSW  2480
Australia
Phone:  (066) 220 020
Cost: U.S. $20.00/quarterly

     Note: subscribers in the U.S. can send their payment to THE
     PERMACULTURE ACTIVIST.

     The INTERNATIONAL PERMACULTURE JOURNAL serves as the leading 
     periodical for permaculture worldwide.  Each issue contains informative 
     articles as well as news of permacultural events in Australia, the 
     U.S., and other places around the world.  It serves as an important 
     networking tool. Back issues to the early 1980s are available.  

THE PERMACULTURE EDGE 
Permaculture Nambour, Inc. 
P.O. Box 650
Nambour, Queensland  4560
Australia
Phone:  (074) 943 955
Cost: U.S. $20.00, quarterly.  

     Note: subscribers in the U.S. can send their payment to THE
     PERMACULTURE ACTIVIST. 

     THE PERMACULTURE EDGE is a new quarterly publication from Australia. 
     The "permaculture edge" refers to the "edge effect" that can be used 
     to increase yields in designed systems.  It also points to 
     permaculture ideas as being "at the edge" of a change in the push 
     toward a sustainable future. 


                BASIC PERMACULTURE LITERATURE:

THE BEST OF PERMACULTURE.  By Max O. Lindegger and Robert Tap.  
1986.  Nascimanere Publishers, Nambour, Australia.  136 p.

PERMACULTURE ONE:  A PERENNIAL AGRICULTURE FOR HUMAN
SETTLEMENTS, 3rd ed.  By Bill C. Mollison and David Holmgren.  1987.  
(Reprint of 1978 ed.)  Tagari Publishers, Tyalgum, New South Wales,
Australia.  127 p. 

PERMACULTURE TWO: A PRACTICAL DESIGN FOR TOWN AND COUNTRY IN
PERMANENT AGRICULTURE.  By Bill C. Mollison.  1979. 
Tagari Press, Stanley, Australia.  150 p. 

PERMACULTURE: A PRACTICAL GUIDE FOR A SUSTAINABLE FUTURE.
By Bill C. Mollison.  Island Press, Washington, D.C.  579 p. 

INTRODUCTION TO PERMACULTURE.  1991.  By Bill C. Mollison and 
Reny Mia Slay.   Tagari Publishers, Tyalgum, Australia.  198 p. 


             THE PERMACULTURIST'S BOOKSHELF

TREE CROPS: A PERMACNENT AGRICULTURE.  By J. Russell Smith.  1987.
408 p.  Costs about:  $20.00

CORNUCOPIA: A SOURCE BOOK OF EDIBLE PLANTS.  By Stephen Facciola.
1990.  678 p.  Costs about:  $35.00

DESIGNING & MAINTAINING YOUR EDIBLE LANDSCAPE NATURALLY.  By
Robert Kourick.  1986.  370 p.  Costs about:  $20.00


*  Compiled by Steve Diver   

   Send comments and updates to:  steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu 
   or permaculture-mg@ces.ncsu.edu

===============

Article 11236 (123 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
ubject: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:15:20 GMT

I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
"hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, 
dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:

> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11254 (121 more) in rec.gardens:
From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:52:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

> There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
> tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
> now forgotten.  Maybe uses F- instead of Cl-?????

"Gifblaar".  It makes fluoroacetate ion, a potent inhibitor of the
Krebs cycle.  One mouthful of this plant can kill a sheep.  A related
species makes some other fluorinated acids, also toxic.

Interestingly, another member of this genus is a nickel
hyperaccumulator.

        Paul F. Dietz
        dietz@cs.rochester.edu

Article 11287 (153 more) in rec.gardens:
From: emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?Date: 7 Oct 92 18:29:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205925.7361@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu
(Paul Dietz) writes:
>> 
>> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
>> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
>> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
>> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
>> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
>> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?
>
>To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
>lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

        I read something about Jimsonweed.
        About a month ago, in the Wall Street Journal, page 1
        Apparently, it hyperaccumulates toxic nuclear (now THAT's
        redundant) wastes...and thrives!!!!

        Elizabeth

From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Subject: re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:35:08 -0500

Paul Dietz (with a marvelous memory!) remembered the plant I couldn't--
the one that makes fluoroacetate when grown on soils heavy in fluorine,
and thus becomes toxic to animals.  He also remembered the common name
is "giftblaar", not "giftboom" as I had thought.

Dichapetalum is a BIG genus of 150-200 species of the tropics, particularly
Africa.  It's a member of the family Dichapetalaceae, which may be
related to the Euphorbiaceae, the poinsettia family, according to 
Willis's Dictionary.  Alas, Chiltern Seeds doesn't seem to stock it :-(
------
From:   IN%"dietz@cs.rochester.EDU"  

The genus is Dichapetalum.  The three species to which I referred
are:

        D. cymosum      Makes fluoroacetate
        D. toxicarium   Makes various omega-fluorinated fatty acids
        D. gelonioides  A nickel hyperaccumulator

D. gelonioides doesn't have unusually large amounts of fluorine in
its tissues.  I don't remember if D. toxicarium makes fluoroacetate
as well.
--------
Kay

rec.gardens #10472 
From: A.S. Chamove
Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 19:47:12 1992
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand

Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soils?

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand


1] Re: Hyperaccumulators
Date: Sun Oct 11 20:53:28 1992
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

rticle 11244 (116 more) in rec.gardens:
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
ubject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:25 -0500

In article <1992Oct6.231520.20515@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Pau l Dietz) writes:
> I just was reading a bit about some plants that are
> "hyperaccumulators": they concentrate normally toxic metals in their
> tissue to an amazing extent (for example, plants that grow on soils
> derived from ultramafic rocks that concentrate nickel in their leaves
> to > 3% of their dry weight).  Are there any plants normally grown in
> gardens that are hyperaccumulators?

To the best of my knowledge, no.  Though you will see such things as
lead accumulating in root crops like carrots.

Most of the "ultra accumulators" are things like locoweeds, which
pick up selenium in sulfur-poor soils, and you actually get selinium
containing amino acids and proteins (i.e., the selenium "spares" the
sulfur).

There is a cute S. African plant I've read of called "giftboom" (poison
tree) that does something rather spectacular with fluorine, which I've
now forgotten.  Maybe uses Fl- instead of Cl-?????

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

Article 11249 (115 more) in rec.gardens:
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Hyperaccumulators?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:06:58 GMT

Datura (Jimson Weed) and cattails are reputed to be hyperaccumulators.

Date: 12 Oct 92 00:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.234712.18978@massey.ac.nz>, 
A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove) writes:
> Does anyone know of a plant (edible to cows and horses) that will
> concentrate selenium in selenium-deficient soil?

Species of _Astragalus_ and _Oxytropis_ are notorious for this in low-
sulfur soils.  Of course, when the horse or steer gets too much
Se from the locoweeds, you see "moonblindness" and other neurological
symptoms.
Kay

Article 471 (7 more) in bionet.plants:
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1992 15:48:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Heavy Metals and Fruit Trees

cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Clint Potter) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1992 19:09:08 GMT
Requested info:
> I am after a information on the effects of heavy metals in the soil on fruit
> trees.
> Are metals like Pb and Cd detrimental to the growth of trees like apples,
> peaches and pears?  Is there any research on tolerable concentrations of
> these elements?  Are these metals likely to migrate to the fruit?  What type
> of soil test should be done?  Is total Pb and total Cd adequate?
> Thank you for any information or references.
> Clint Potter cpotter@ncsa.uiuc.edu

Check a recent review article :

       W. H. O. Ernst et al., 1992.  Metal tolerance in plants.
       Acta Botanica Neerlandica 41:229-248.

If it doesn't provide you with the info you need, it may lead you to other
sources in the literature cited.

Mark Kubiske

From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT

  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of 
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted 
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King  
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 704 in bionet.plants:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:03:23 EST
Subject: Re: Heavy metals in plants

I'm out of my field here, but I'm somewhat involved in a study here at Penn
State which might at least be interesting, if not relevant to this budding
'heavy metal' discussion.  About 100 years ago in the Eastern US, the
"cahrcoal-iron" industry was pretty big business.  Travelers through
Pennsylvania can still see the huge, stone iron furnaces in state parks and
the like.  The iron workers would fire the furnaces with charcoal which they
produced themselves from the surrounding forests.  One can walk through the
woods almost anywhere in PA and encounter numerous "charcoal hearths" -
elliptical or circular flat areas about 10 to 12 meters across with very
little or no woody vegetation.  The study was designed to try and pin down
why woody vegetation is virtually excluded from these hearths even after 100
years.  I might add that the surrounding woods were heavily logged during
this period, clearcut on 40 year rotations was common.  Needless to say the
woods are growing quite vigerously, but not the hearths.  Tissue-water
relations of test plants (my field) suggest some form of drought stress.
The soil on these hearths is up to 70% organic matter due to charcoal dust
and fragments.  Can there be some heavy metal residue that may have been
concentrated by stacking 10 cords at a time on these hearths and coaling
them?  Some hearths were used very many times over.

Mark Kubiske                < MEK104@PSUVM.PSU.EDU >
School of Forest Resources
Penn State University

Article 708 (1 more) in bionet.plants:
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Subject: heavy metals a few points
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:14:04 GMT

Well I am pleased with the response to my plea for discussion on the topic
of heavy metals and plants.
The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potential
-ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
the vacuole. Once inside the vacuole Cd is bound to the induced peptide
phytochelatins, therebye reducing the Cd's chemical gradient across the
tonoplast and hence reducing the amount of energy required to keep pumping
Cd inside. In oats Cd is transported across the tonoplast via a Cd/H
antiport (presumably driven in vivo by tghe tonoplast H-ATPase or H-PPiase).
Transport of Cd back out across the PM may also be a possibility.
RE Datura: P. Jackson at Los Alamos has done alot of work on the
biochemistry of Cd resistence on Datura innoxia in tissue culture!
IS CADMIUM REALLY SO BAD!!!!!!
a recent article in Nature suggests not!(344, 658-660, 1990)
It would appear that Cd can substitute for Zn in Zn deficient marine diatoms!
Does this explain the slight growth stimulation physiologist have seen (but
not talked about) in Cd tolerence tests using root elongation?
What is Cd doing in the marine diatom? Is it siting in the active site of
catalase or in Zn-fingers?....Any ideas.

Finally are there any biophysicists out there how can explain to me why
crystaline CdS is an interesting semiconductor because the fission yeast
S. pombe makes particles of it when exposed to Cd (and may be also plants)
and AT&T Bell laboratories are interested (Nature 338, 596-597, 1989).

David Salt
Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca

Article 710 in bionet.plants:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 11 Dec 92 14:49:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.234216.8446@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry
 London) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> you write:
>>In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
                        .
Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
>>: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
>>: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
>>I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
>>when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
>>and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.
                        .
                        .
>Here's a thread on the subject I've saved over the past several months.
>There is additional material contained in a number of posts in
>alt.sustainable.agriculture, which I've archived. These mostly relate to
>the work of John Todd, formerly of the New Alchemy Institute.
A paper by K. C. Jones et al., *Nature*, 356, 137, 1992,
analyzes secular trends in pollution around Rothamsted
by measuring plants' incorporated burdens of different
pollutants.  The authors' principal concerns were with
organics--PCBs, hydrocarbons--but I think their biblio-
graphy touches on metal uptakes.
                        .
-- 
Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)    +1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)      +1 713 996 8546

Article 713 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant communication/sensing references wanted
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:23:45 GMT

In article <921212201751.MIN-LVICa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: 
:    The subject about says it all: I'm interested in references to literature
:    which explores the capabilities of the plant world with refer712

Article 712 in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
ubject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:18:36 GMT

In article <921211224901.MIN-LHFCa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: The discussion on hyperaccumulators is interesting but it is important to
: realise that to my knowledge there is no example of a plant which excludes
:metals, all plants appear to accumulate metals to some degree. This is probably
: due to the cationic metal being driven across the PM via the membrame potentia
l
: -ve inside. In tobacco this metal then appears to be compartmentalised within
: [...]

I did some work with benzo-18-crown-6 (a synthetic ionophore) which
demonstrated that accumulation of K+ in the vacuole of stomatal guard
cells was dependent on the permeability of the PM to K+ ions.  The
crown ether is incorporated into the membrane and forms K+ permeable
channels.

The driving force for accumulation of K+ is electrogenic proton
extrusion across the PM/tonoplast.  It seems that accumulation of Cd or
any other cation available would depend on membrane permeability rather
than active transport of the metal itself.

        Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751

From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
ubject: Heavy metals
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
--MORE--(88%)

a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )
End of article 721 (of 722)--what next? [npq] Article 723 in bionet.plants:
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com

Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Distribution: bionet

       This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

        We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

        Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

        The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

        Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

        Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

        Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

        I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..

Article 727 (2 more) in bionet.plants:
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Tr
avis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."

bionet.plants:
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: heavy metals a few points
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:51:38 GMT

 Cadmium

   In humans and animals Cd interfers with Cu and Zn metabolism.  It competes
with Zn for sites in metalloenzymes that require Zn for function.  It also
blocks sulphydral groups.  

   Interestingly, on the point of Cd competing for Zn sites most metalloenzymes
that require Zn show partial activity if Cd is substituted back in.  Mn, Ni and
Co, can also achieve this effect, with Co being the least disruptive.  

  So my guess is that with Zn deficiency, Cd can reactivate the
Zn-metalloenzymes, and Co would work even better!!!
 
 Kev

Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT

Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu

Article 735 (8 more) in bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: A big hello
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

Ok, what am I interested in . My main interest is in how plants are able
to tolerate elevated levels of heavy metals and specifically what is the
mechanism of metals tolerance in evolved metal tolerant races. I have
looked at the formation of copper-phytochelatin (gamma(EC)nG) and
metallothionein (the protein I isolated had an amino acid composition very
similar to that predicted for the plant metallothionein gene) in copper
tolerant Mimulus guttatus inresponse to 10 micro molar Cu and the synthesis
of just phytochelatins in response to Cd. Recently I have been looking at the
mechanism involved in Cd and phytochelatin transport into the vacuole where
they appear to accumulate. I have identified a Cd/H antiport activity at the
tonoplast and am now investigateing the mechanisms of phytochelatin transport.
Well in a nut shell that is what I do.

David Salt
Botany Dept.
University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada  (Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca)


Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?

                Aquaculture information resources on ALF
                ------------------------------------------


Another document available:
AQUALIST.TXT     3695  10-23-90  Aquaculture Info Ctr Publist


===========================================================================
                   LIST OF KEY NAL PERSONNEL AND SERVICES
===========================================================================
   Aquaculture IC                  Debbie Hanfman        344-3704   AGS3091
Aquaculture Information Center

     Subject Coverage:  Culture of aquatic plants and animals in
     freshwater, brackish, and marine environments. Examples
     include:  catfish farming; oyster culture; freshwater prawn
     culture; tilapia culture; salmon ranching; and trout
     farming. Subjects related to aquaculture, such as pond
     management, cage culture, recirculating systems, diseases,
     and water quality are also covered. Staff of the Center also
     handle requests on eel culture; Spirulina farming; and
     aquatic snail and turtle cultivation, but not terrestrial
     culture. The "fisheries industry" (such as ocean fishing
     harvests) is not considered a part of the Aquaculture
     Information Center's coverage.

     Coordinator:  Deborah Hanfman, 301-344-3704

        Aquaculture Information Center
        Coordinator:   Debbie Hanfman
                       Room l09C
                       (30l) 344-3704
AQUACULTURE
-----------
Algae and Biotechnology.  Ann Townsend Young.  February 1990.  3 pp.  AIC
Series no. 1.

Aquaculture:  A Guide to Federal Government Programs.  Prepared by the Joint
Subcommittee on Aquaculture, in cooperation with the National Agricultural
Library.  November 1987.  34 pp.

Aquaculture for Youth and Youth Educators.  Eileen McVey.  July 1989.  16
pp.  (Aqua-Topic Series)

Aquaculture Genetics and Breeding:  National Research Priorities.  Prepared
by USDA Cooperative State Research Service, Office of Aquaculture.  March
1988.  Vol. I, 56 pages.  Vol. II, 61 pp.

Aquaculture In the Caribbean Basin:  A Bibliography (1970-1988).  Prepared
by Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt,
National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS);
Carol Watts, NESDIS; Dallas Alson, Caribbean Aquaculture Association.
More [Y]es,N)o,C)ont,A)bort,J)ump! y


Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 71.  September 1988.  71
pp.

Aquaculture In the Northeast Pacific:  A Bibliography.  Prepared by Deborah
T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Eileen M. McVey, Aquaculture
Information Center; Steven J. Tibbitt, National Environmental Satellite,
Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); Marilyn Quin, Coastal Oregon Marine
Experiment Station, Oregon State University, Hatfield Marine Science Center
Library, Newport, Oregon 97365; Carol Watts, NESDIS.  Bibliographies and
Literature of Agriculture No. 98.  October 1989.

Culture of Striped and Hybrid Striped Bass.  Eileen McVey.  April 1990.  28
pp.  (Aqua-Topics Series)

Eels.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  8 pp.  AIC Series no. 5.

Paddlefish.  Deborah T. Hanfman.  March 1990.  5 pp.  AIC Series no. 2.
The Potentials of Aquaculture:  An Overview and Bibliography.  Prepared by
Deborah T. Hanfman, Aquaculture Information Center; Steven Tibbitt, National
Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS); and Carol
Watts (NESDIS).  October 1989.  Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture
No. 90. 73 pp.
Practical Aquaculture Literature II:  A Bibliography.  Eileen M. McVey,
Deborah T. Hanfman, Mona F. Smith, and Ann Townsend Young.  June 1989.
Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture No. 75.  175 pp.
Raising Snails.  Sheldon Cheney.  SRB 88-04.  March 1988.  16 pp.
Seafood Safety and Standards.  Eileen M. McVey.  September 1989.  19 pp.
(Aqua-Topic Series)
Sturgeons.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  10 pp.  AIC Series no. 4.
Watercress.  Ann Townsend Young.  April 1990.  6 pp.  AIC Series no. 3.


===========================================================================
                             INFORMATION ALERTS
 Recent items of public interest published as Information Alerts by NAL
===========================================================================
IA89-08.TXT   REGIS:  ... African Aquaculture                    4/21/89
IA89-12.TXT   NATDP Announces Aquaculture Compact Disk           6/21/89
IA89-21.TXT   New Aquaculture Bibliography Available             8/15/89


Another document available:
NAL Publ. "Potentials of Aquaculture"......................90-05 IA90-05.TXT


AQUACULTURE
     Deborah Hanfman, a Technical Information Specialist at NAL,
selected 62 key  U.S. Government publications for this database.
They include books, technical reports, bibliographies, leaflets,
bulletins and journal articles.  These publications are not
copyrighted and may be downloaded or printed for personal use.
Software used: Textware.
          This database was created as part of an experimental,
pilot project by the National Agricultural Library.  Copies are not
available.  The database may be searched at the D.C. Reference
Center and in the main library, Beltsville, MD.  Technical
questions about the database may be addressed to Deborah Hanfman
(301)344-3558, or Judith Zidar (301)344-3818, USDA, National
Agricultural Library, 10301 Baltimore Blvd., Beltsville, MD 20705.

Another file available for download:
LAQUADV.ZIP     59680  06-30-88  Louisiana Aquaculture Expert Advisory

Re: 1/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Life on a Fish Farm: Food Safety a Priority
                           by Beverly Corey, D.V.M.

In bold yellow letters the supermarket ad proclaims, "Save on Catch of the
Day." Beneath the message is a fisherman's oversized dip-net teeming with
thick sliced lemons, red snapper, trout, mussels, a red onion, succulent
shrimp, a sprig of parsley, and a luscious lobster. The picture creates an
intense hunger for seafood. It also commands a closer look.

The ad's fine print lists the usual information: the price of the product,
its common or usual name, whether it is fresh or frozen, and its place of
origin. But a few products are identified with a term that implies an
additional distinction--"farm-raised." This means it's a product of
aquaculture.

What's Aquaculture?

Aquaculture means "water culture" or, more exactly, farming in water. Simply
explained, it involves the intensive production of fish and shellfish for
human food, plants such as seaweed, and even bait fish and fish for aquaria,
in a closely managed habitat.

The aquaculture industry has been described as "fragile" because it's still
young, yet "on the cutting edge of science" because of its use of technology.
Both descriptions are appropriate for an industry that has experienced
explosive growth in the last 20 years, but is still immature.

Aquaculture is considered by many to be the aquatic counterpart of
agriculture, with water substituting for land. But aquaculture is more akin
to animal husbandry, the science of animal breeding, than agriculture in
general.

Farm-raised fish mature in areas called rearing units or rearing areas either
offshore or onshore. Ponds, large circular tanks, and raceways--rectangular
concrete enclosures that make use of flowing water--are common onshore
rearing units for fin fish. Coastal lakes and estuaries can be common sites
for offshore systems raising fish and crustaceans in cages or net-pens.
Shellfish may be held in floating baskets or suspended on ropes hanging from
rafts.

The aquaculturist takes species of aquatic plants and animals naturally grown
in nature's waterways or in the "wild" and reproduces them in a habitat where
the operative word is "control."

The farmer can monitor and control every aspect of the fish's
environment--from the quality of pond water to the specially formulated fish
diet. Fish farmers believe that it's the element of control that makes a
farm-raised fish a better-quality product because it's easier to regulate and
guarantee its wholesomeness.

Fish farmers rely on good management and a host of products to prevent health
problems. They use chemicals as disinfectants and to kill bacteria;
herbicides to prevent the overgrowth of vegetation in ponds; vaccines to
fight certain diseases; and drugs--usually combined in the feed--to treat
diseases and parasites.

The supervision of this new industry is shared by several federal agencies,
including the Food and Drug Administration, U.S. Department of Agriculture,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the Fish and Wildlife
Service (FWS), and the Environmental Protection Agency, along with state and
local authorities. Their common goal is to ensure the safety and
wholesomeness of aquaculture products.

USDA has the overall responsibility for promoting the development of
aquaculture as an industry. FWS provides developmental research and advice to
fish farmers. EPA safeguards the environment and municipal water systems by
regulating the discharge of water from aquaculture facilities and registering
the chemicals used as pesticides and herbicides. NOAA, for a fee, provides an
inspection service that guarantees fish are packed under federal inspection.

FDA works with the individual states to ensure the safety of seafood
products, especially molluscan shellfish such as oysters, clams and mussels.
It also approves the drugs and feed additives used in aquaculture; monitors
the manufacturing, distribution and use of fish drugs; provides technical
assistance and training to the states; conducts research; and provides the
necessary oversight to ensure that fish food products are safe, wholesome and
properly labeled.

FDA's recently created Office of Seafood--in its Center for Food Safety and
Applied Nutrition--is the focal point for much of the agency's food fish
programs. FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine works closely with the Office
of Seafood.

There are five major components to any fish culture operation: fish, water,
container or pond, nutrition, and management practices. Each component plays
a significant role in the farming of a safe and wholesome food. A look at the
actual process provides an understanding of the term "farm-raised."

Raising Catfish

Catfish farming makes up 50 percent of the U.S. aquaculture industry and
typifies aquaculture in action.

The life of a farm-raised catfish begins with the mating of genetically bred
broodstock. Broodstock are sexually mature fish used solely for reproduction.
They are so important that some farmers specialize in their production.

Re: 2/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typically, once the eggs are laid and fertilized, they are placed in
controlled hatching tanks with oxygenated water of suitable temperature and
quality. The eggs hatch in seven to eight days, and 18 days after hatching
the young catfish--"fry," as they are called--are strong enough to be
transferred to outdoor ponds to mature.

The pond size may vary from 5 to 20 acres, is 4 to 5 feet deep, and is
usually fed by a good supply of well water. Catfish fry, which are less than
1 inch long at this point, are stocked at densities ranging from 70,000 per
acre to upwards of 200,000 per acre, as recommended by hatchery biologists.

Once fish enter the pond, their growth and survival will wholly depend upon
the quality of that environment. Everything the fish comes into contact with
has the potential of becoming a part of the edible flesh of that organism and
can affect its life. If the water or food contains contaminants, they may end
up in the fish. If improper drugs are used to treat a disease, residues of
those drugs may also become a part of the fish. If too many aquatic plants
are present, they will compete with the fish for oxygen. Sound management is
essential to keep the fish growing.

So, from the time of stocking to the time of harvest, the farmer is busy
controlling the aquaculture system.

First, every attention is given to the quality of the commercially prepared
dry pellet diet. It must be high in protein (30 to 40 percent, depending upon
the stage of growth), made of soybeans, corn, wheat, and fishmeal, and
contain a balance of essential vitamins and minerals in accordance with
recommendations by the National Research Council and fish nutritionists.

Under FDA requirements, the mill that produces the feed guarantees that
ingredients are present at the levels declared on the feed label and that
feeds containing medications meet drug level specifications.

Prior to pelleting, the mill also analyzes each ingredient to guarantee the
absence of toxicants or contaminants. Feeds contaminated with
aflatoxins--toxins that occur in moldy feed ingredients--can cause fish
deformities and even kill the fish. FDA inspectors routinely examine the
mills' feed test results and evaluate their good manufacturing practices.

A balanced diet of floating pellets is mechanically scattered on the fish
pond's surface once or twice daily. Fish gourmets credit the pellet for the
catfish's distinctive flavor, which they say they would recognize
blindfolded. Others say the taste comes from the sweet well water in which
the catfish grow. This, too, is managed by the farmer.

Even before the fish go into the pond, water quality and location are
concerns. The farmers make sure the pond's soil is free of pesticides and not
contaminated. Then they secure an abundant source of clean water. Most
catfish farmers use well water because of its desirable chemical makeup and
lack of contaminants.

The water quality must be constantly checked for optimum growth requirements:
proper temperature, the right amount of oxygen, the appropriate water
chemistry, and just the right balance of aquatic plants and weeds.

To operate, the farmer must meet state and local requirements on water usage
and discharge, as well as the appropriate EPA water permits. Only
FDA-approved drugs may be used, with strict adherence to directions for
use--particularly directions that tell when the drug must be stopped or
"withdrawn" to prevent residues in the fish at the time of harvest.

FDA is alert to the potential misuse of drugs and chemicals, including the
use of unapproved drugs or chemicals. The agency has approved only five
chemicals--including three antibiotics--for use in combating diseases caused
by bacteria in the aquaculture environment. The fish-farming industry
maintains that this is not enough, especially with resistant strains of
bacteria developing to approved antibiotics.

FDA supports research to obtain data on the safe use of certain drugs and is
encouraging drug manufacturers to develop additional therapies for approval.
At the same time, they have developed an enforcement strategy directed
towards those who violate the law by selling or using drugs unapproved for
use in food fish.

To learn the extent of drug use in aquaculture, FDA's Center for Veterinary
Medicine, working with field investigators, recently completed a survey of
catfish, crayfish, and trout producers. The center and the Office of Seafood
are now developing additional analytical methods to test fisheries' products
for drug residues. The center is focusing on illegal residues of drugs from
off-label use: drugs approved in species other than fish that might be used
in fish. The Office of Seafood is focusing on drug residues that may be in
imported seafood and has increased sampling of aquaculture products--both
domestic and imported--for pesticides and industrial chemicals.

Under the best conditions, 18 to 24 months after hatching, the catfish reach
a market weight size of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pounds. They are transferred from the
pond to water-laden, oxygen-treated tank trucks for live shipment to the
processing plant.

Once the fish reach the processing plant, the responsibility for quality
control shifts to the processor, who must comply with FDA's good
manufacturing practice regulations and the provisions of the Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act. FDA inspectors routinely visit the plant to assess its
compliance with quality control guidelines to guarantee fish quality from
processing to packing and storage. If the plant does not comply with these
requirements, FDA takes appropriate regulatory action.

Re: 3/3 Aquaculture and the FDA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spokespersons for the catfish industry say they consider quality a number one
priority. "Consumers should know we are offering a product grown in a safe
and controlled environment that is routinely monitored," says Hugh Warren,
executive vice president of the Catfish Farmers of America, a trade
association. "Our [current] major thrust is to create a sense of
understanding that [with farm-grown catfish] they are getting a federally
inspected product."

For 90 percent of catfish processors, federal inspection occurs daily. Major
commercial catfish processors have voluntarily entered into a contract with
the National Marine Fisheries Service--a part of NOAA--to have their products
inspected. The catfish processors pay for this daily inspection service. NOAA
inspectors issue certificates of quality and conditions of the catfish
products. Products that pass inspection can display the seal, "Packed Under
Federal Inspection," on the label or carton.

With some modification in the breeding requirements of each species, similar
methods are used to produce a host of other fin fish and shellfish, with
federal and state authorities similarly involved in making sure they're safe
to eat. As aquaculture becomes more sophisticated, so do the monitoring tools
of government regulators. Their goals, however, remain the same: to keep up
with the industry, provide assistance where they can, and enhance the safety
of all seafood, including the products of aquaculture.

Beverly Corey is a veterinarian with FDA's speechwriting staff.

A World Phenomenon

Aquaculture worldwide is sophisticated and growing. From a global
perspective, China and Japan are still the world leaders whose combined
products exceed an annual value of $12 billion. But, they have been at it a
great many years longer than anyone else.

As the fifth leading producer of aquaculture by dollar value, the United
States is making great strides.

Aquaculture is one of the fastest growing segments of the U.S.
economy--increasing more than 15 percent per year since 1980. From modest
beginnings, the farm value for U.S.-produced fish and other aquaculture
projects has risen in 1991 to $750.2 million and is estimated at 543,770
metric tons, or 11,990,128 pounds.

The boom in fish farming has been brought about by consumer demand for more
fish and a lack of natural supplies. Statistics show that virtually every
species of fin fish harvested from U.S. marine waters is now fished at levels
above its natural capacity to replace itself.

In an age where Americans increasingly search for nutritious but low-fat
foods, fish can be an important part of the diet.

According to the National Fisheries Institute, a trade association based in
Washington, D.C., Americans now consume 22 percent more fish than they did a
decade ago. Analysts believe that the level will continue to increase from
the current rate of 15.5 pounds per person to 20 pounds per person by the
beginning of the next century.

Aquaculture provides a way to supplement natural stocks and to potentially
provide a steady, year-round supply that processors and retailers can depend
on.

As one might expect, the products of aquaculture include the ordinary and the
exotic, and while not all species are farmed in the United States, our
gourmet palates encourage the import of items not fished in our waters.

For example, a specialty food shop may stock such items as salmon raised in
Chile or Norway, dried seaweed from Southeast Asia, eel from Taiwan, and
oysters from Korea--all farm-raised!

Not to worry. FDA inspects imports before they enter the country, usually at
the port of entry. In 1991, FDA conducted 3,541 seafood inspections and
another 4,094 wharf inspections of seafood producers and products. Import
sample collections numbered 3,033.

In special cases, there are memoranda of understanding (MOUs) with foreign
governments that allow FDA to inspect the harvesting areas and processing
plants in the country of origin.

FDA currently has active agreements for molluscan shellfish from Korea,
Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Chile. FDA also has MOUs with
Iceland, England and Japan. However, these countries are not exporting to the
United States at this time.

Among the 100 or so aquaculture products cultured in the United States are
aquatic plants, eels, abalone, lobsters, carp, tilapia, alligator, trout,
hybrid striped bass, crabs, and a variety of mollusks. But four species
account for 80 percent of the total volume of all domestic aquaculture
products: catfish, crayfish, trout, and salmon.

The latest industry statistics list catfish, trout, salmon, shrimp, oysters,
and crayfish as the consumers' choice of domestic aquaculture products. In
terms of volume, catfish, crayfish and salmon are the industry leaders, while
catfish and trout lead in monetary value. --B.C.


Re: Aquaculture (mention of biodynamics and alternative agriculture)
-------------------------------------
Article 2336 (8 more) in misc.rural:
From: Robert Frederick Enenkel
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Jan 92 15:33:27 GMT

Aquaculture Magazine is a good source of advertisements from U.S. equipment
suppliers.  They have a reader response card you can send in for information
from any of their advertisers.  It costs $21 / year for 6 issues sent to
Canada (less I think for the U.S.).  There is also a yearly buyer's guide
for $15.  You can order using a credit card by calling 704-254-7334.

Also call Argent at 1-800-426-6258 and ask for their free catalogue and
their book catalogue.  They have aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and
an extensive selection of books.

Try cross-posting your request to both rec.aquaria and alt.aquaria.
There are several people in those groups who practice small-scale
commercial aquaculture, or have in the past.  In the mean time I will
look for some names of specific people to contact by e-mail.

Robert Enenkel

Article 2337 (7 more) in misc.rural:
From: A.S.Chamove
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 00:28:12 GMT

Best book I have found on aquaculture is

Huet, Marcel. Textbook of Fish Culture: Breeding and Cultivation
of Fish, Eyre & Spottiswoode Ltd at Thanet Press, Margate, UK
1971, ISBN  o/85238/020/8

Has special sections on carp, pike, trout, perch, catfish, eels.
And sections of building dams, feeding, and the usual.

Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand

Article 2346 (6 more) in misc.rural:
From: Ricardo J Salvador
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 18 Jan 92 18:22:23 GMT

Mike Campbell is a graduate student in the Agricultural Education & Studies
department here.  He has experience and a great interest in aquaculture,
biodynamics and alternative agriculture.  He is currently working on
developing a curriculum in aquaculture under a fairly sizeable grant
received by his department.  He is not on the net, but if you wish to
contact him, call the AgEdS main office here and ask for him: 515-294-5904.

Ricardo Salvador      | Internet:   rjsalvad@IASTATE.EDU | "Thou art a little
1126 Agronomy Hall    | BITNET:     a1.rjs@ISUMVS        | soul bearing about
Iowa State University | CompuServe: 71570,212            | a corpse."
Ames, IA 50011-1010   | GEnie:      R.Salvador           | -Marcus  Aurelius-

Article 2347 (5 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bill Spikes
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 17 Jan 92 17:32:54 GMT

Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
sea otters are getting too frisky.

Bill

Article 2423 (20 more) in misc.rural:
From: John Long
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 29 Jan 92 19:55:59 GMT

>Along these lines, does anyone know of anyone specifically growin'
>abalones? The Dept of Fish & Game either doesn't plant enough or the
>sea otters are getting too frisky.

There is a research project in Kona looking at the possibility of generating
power from the difference in temperature between surface and deep sea water,
known as ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC). As a sideline in the project,
the used cold water is piped to aquaculture experiments at the site.

The aquaculture experiments have been successful enough to become commercial,
one of them is even doing very well on the stock market (that's the most
important thing, after all!  ;^)

Abalone are grown, as are 'Maine' lobsters, salmon have been spawned, and
have returned and been harvested, edible seaweeds, and others.

Cold water from the deep has many advantages over surface water, which I
can't enumerate. All in all, the aquaculture experiments have been extremely
promising.

-LongJohn

3767
Article 3767 (14 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:13:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

There has been a great deal of intensive fish farming going on
in parts of Asia for at least centuries so they have developed
a number of efficient systems.  Generally the carp species are
best suited since they can thrive on a variety of feeds many of
which can be produced in a farm situation as a byproduct.
The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising
in a small high production pond although certain requisites in-
clude maintaining a fairly warm pond temp. (65 to 85 deg F),
some aeration of the water, and certain companion plants.
Experiments were done for several years at the New Alchemy
Institute in Massachusetts, installing the ponds inside a
greenhouse for warmth through the seasons and using plexiglass
tanks to let sunlight in from the sides although this is not
necessary.  The earthworms would certainly be a feed for the
fish but tilapia surprisingly tend to do better if the diet is
lower in protein, so other feeds could be added.  Tilapia are
a bit like pigs;  they'll eat almost anything so kitchen scraps
or cuttings from a veg garden are also useful.
At the risk of getting a bit too graphic: tilapia can thrive on
manure alone as a feed, although I cannot remember which manure
is most suitable for this, I think pig manure is used in
Malaysia and works quite well.

Article 3954 (30 more) in misc.rural:
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon...psychohistorian)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:44:33 GMT

In <1binjtINN9jg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Mike E. Romano) writes:

>The tilapia species in particular are well suited to raising

i do believe that this particular species is *not* wanted in
this particular state by the local natural resources folks.
i think it had something to do with their tendancy to take over.
so you might want to verify if any species you want are allowed
in your state. tilapia will also live quite well in a ditch
(if the information generated by the local d.n.r. is true)

bill pociengel
Article 3958 (29 more) in misc.rural
From: Mark Crispin

There is a problem with Asian style fish ponds that may make you think twice
about whether or not you really want one.  They're natural incubators for new
strains of influenza.

It goes like this; it is pretty common to keep both ducks and pigs at a fish
pond.  The pigs eat, among other things, duck manure; and both ducks and pigs
are protein sources for humans.  So far so good.

Unfortunately, as a result of eating the duck manure the pigs are exposed to
avian influenza.  Apparently, through some not-yet-completely understood
processes, the avian influenza and swine influenza viruses combine or mutate
inside the pig and become a new strain.  Humans can't get avian influenza but
they can get swine influenza.

The massive expansion in the number of fish ponds in Asia under UN funding is
postulated as a probable cause of the great number of new strains of influenza
which have emerged in Asia.

I would suggest that if you do have a fish pond, it would be prudent not to
permit your pigs to eat avian manure.  This would hopefully break the cycle.

As I implied, this process hasn't been proven yet, but it's the most plausible
explanation offered to date for the observations.  While we're spending
billions of dollars in the name of prudence with `global warming' (which
remains unproven), it seems reasonable to take a few less costly steps to
prevent your fish pond from being a potential source of a new strain of flu.

Article 3961 (28 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 16 Oct 1992 03:04:11

To Dean Nelson:  your original posting asked about the use of
earthworms which are thriving on the rabbit manure on your
farm.
I wrote a reply concerning some aspects of the fish pond
system and the tilapia fish in particular.
Since you do not have pigs, then the mention of pig manure
should not be as specific advice, only that this particular
fish is extremely hardy.
Several postings on this thread have advised caution in these
areas.
Let's go back to the original, then.  A small farm with various
possibilities of using byproducts in an efficient manner.
This particular subject has intrigued me for several years.
Much literature is written on farming for a profit, looking
for the right crop and raising it for the highest production,
essentially for an external market.
I am much more interested in how =well= say a family of four
can feed itself on a small piece of land, say 5 acres.
There are books and studies in this area, especially for
efficient vegetable production.
But beyond that, for such a small land area, for meat eaters
(such as myself),  how efficient can a system be designed for
the smaller livestock, i.e. poultry, rabbits, etc.?
For example, could certain insects be bred specifically for
feed for one of these (and let's include a fish pond too)?
There is an insect food newsletter from a university back
east but I do not have the name handy.
The earthworms are close, then, to this idea.  What would
be the most efficient way to use them for food production
on a small homestead?
I think much more research should be done in this area.
As for the fish pond, a bass pond or some other fish may
be more useful for your location.
However, tilapia being a  tasty and easy to grow fish and
also often grown organically so that a higher price can be
had, is a fast growing fish industry, although it has been
slow to catch on in the U.S.
A few refs:

     The dome as nursery and breeding pool for tilapia.
    R. Zweig   New Alchemy Institute  1980

    Summary of fish culture techniques in solar algae ponds.
   R. Zweig, Wolfe J. et al   New Alchemy Institute  1980

   Tilapia Culture:  1979-1990  Quick Biblio service USDA
    Beltsville MD    March 1991

Article 3977 (23 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: book source
Date: 19 Oct 92 15:13:15 GMT

I've lost the original posting, but I suggest calling Argent Aquaculture
Supplies at 1-800-663-2871 (Canada) or 1-800-426-6258 (USA) and ask for
their book catalogue.  While you're at it, ask for their aquaculture
products catalogue too.  They'll send you both free.  They have a large
selection of useful aquaculture books.  (Some of their book prices are a bit
high, so after finding the books you want from their descriptions, you might
want to check with a local bookstore to see what their special-order price
would be.  Sometimes it is significantly less.)

While I'm at it, let me put in a plug for Carp.  Common Carp are the *best
tasting* and *best looking* fish.  They are also friendly and will stick
their big leathery tubular mouths right out of the water and take bread,
say, right out of your hand.  So there - I've said it.  I raise carp
in my basement and eat them, and boy are they good.  I've even roasted one
in my fireplace.  How's that for wild crap (carp?)

Now I just have to figure out how to get them to spawn.  Then I'll be
<<self-sufficient>> and can kiss the rest of the world good-bye :-) :-)

Robert Enenkel

Article 3981 (35 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 08:06:26 GMT


In reference to Robert Enenkel's posting of growing carp in
his home.
If he has the time, it would be very interesting to find out
a little more:
What kind of lighting is used, any plants.
What is fed them, the temperature range where they are kept.
Is this a Canadian traditional custom, raising carp in the
basement?
Seriously, if you've read some of my previous posting you
would know that I am seriously interested in small scale
fish raising such as you have mentioned.
Any info would be appreciated.
mike romano

Article 3982 (34 more) in misc.rural:
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Date: 20 Oct 1992 09:29:30 GMT


  In reference to Larry London's request for further cites of
publications by New Alchemy and on the subject of
bioremediation, I have the following from my files:

Solar Aquaculture: perspectives in renewable, resource based
fish production, results for a workshop at Falmouth, Mass.
Sept 28, 1981  supported by the National Science Foundation
New Alchemy Institute.

Bioremediation for marine oil spills.  U.S. Gov Doc.  Office
of Technology Assessment  1991
doc # Y 3.T 22/2:2 B 52.7

Bioremediation of contaminated surface soils by Sims &
Matthews.   EPA  1989    EP 1.23/6:600/9-90/041

National Conference on Bioremediation (1988).  Hazardous
waste treatment by genetically engineered or adapted
organisms.  Superfund '88.  Silver Springs, MD

Bioremediation of petroleum spills in arctic environments.
Alaska Dept of Transportation  1990

Understanding Bioremediation: a guidebook for citizens.
EPA  1991    doc  EP 1.8:B 52/2

Quick Bibliography Series # 92-47.
Biotechnology and Bioremediation.  National Agricultural
Library   Beltsville MD  1991

Practical environmental bioremediation.  Barry King
Lewis Publishing   1992.

Article 3985 (32 more) in misc.rural:
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Aquaculture
Summary: Carping about Carp
Date: 20 Oct 92 15:19:51 GMT

>My step-father had a good way of preparing carp.  Take one carp, nail it
>to a board.  Build a nice smokey fire and slowly rotate the carp for several
>hours.  Then take the carp off......... and eat the board.  ;>

Actually, I forgot to mention the one bad thing about carp:  the bones!
They have the strength of piano wire and are quite dangerous, as well as
easy, to get stuck in your throat if you're not careful.  It helps to get
a large carp, at least 12 pounds, as small ones are functionally inedible
due to the large number of Y-bones.     Robert Enenkel

Article 3998 (39 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1992 15:10:49 GMT

: I am interested in starting up a small tank or pond to raise some fish.
: Does anyone know a good source of information?

        A good introduction to aquaculture is

        The Freshwater Aquaculture Book
         - A Handbook for Small Scale Fish Culture
            in North America
        William McLarney
        ISBN 0-88179-018-4

        This is still in print - and if you just want to
        look at this, your library can probably get it
        through a interlibrary loan.


        A guide to small tank culture is

        Home Aquaculture
        - A Guide to Backyard Fish Farming
        Steven D. VanGorden
        Douglas J. Strange
        Rodale Press
        ISBN 0-87857-472-7

        Maybe available from Rodale Press;
        otherwise maybe available from

        Steven Van Gorden
        PO Box 109
        Breinigville  PA  18031

        Who also has available a bunch of information
        sheets on a variety of issues.  Also publishes
        a quarterly newsletter that you probably wouldn't

Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



Article 4010 (44 more) in misc.rural:
From: Bob Kyweriga <bobk2@cfsmo.honeywell.com>


Subject: Aquaculture
To: misc.rural
Message-ID: <9210221557.AA19563@pserv.CFSMO.Honeywell.COM>
Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:48 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Sender: daemon@src.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1992 15:57:48 GMT
Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 10: 57:39 CDT
Lines: 14


        I've been informed that some people are having
        difficulty in reaching the list server for AQUA-L.

        If you cannot reach

        LISTSERV%VM.UoGuelph.CA@VM1.NoDak.EDU

        you might try

--MORE--(96%)

        LISTSERV@vm.uoguelph.ca



End of article 4010 (of 4016)--what next? [npq] From lhess@msu.oscs.montana.eduWed Apr 17 14:59:33 1996
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:21:59 GMT
From: lhess@msu.oscs.montana.edu
To: sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Indicator plants

In article <4krbos$5u8@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net>, f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net (Frits v/d Laan) writes:
>I would like to get any information about plants that are known to 
>indicate at a early stage anything to do with there environment,
>shortage or to much of nutrician N, P, K, Mg etc.  or are sensitive for
>or atract insects earlier than most plants.
>If there are databases already existing or someone knows such planttypes
>please mail them to me.
>Any free data will be posted back to these groups when there's enough
>data  collected
>
>Frits v/d Laan
>Organic horticulture


Sir:
	Agronomically speaking, there are a couple crops I can think of which
tend to indicate nutritional deficiencies.
	1. Pretty much anything in the Fabaceae (peas, beans, alfalfa, etc.)
and iron. This is because of the root nodulation complex, which requires a form
of hemoglobin, and thus iron.
	2. Sugarbeets and boron. Boron is regularly top- dressed to sugarbeet
fields in modern agriculture.
	There are others. Lots of them. 

Lidia Hess-- College of Agriculture-- Montana State University at Bozeman-- USA
From brateaver@aol.comFri Apr 19 09:57:50 1996
Date: 19 Apr 1996 05:18:53 -0400
From: BRateaver <brateaver@aol.com>
To: sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Indicator plants

That is an old book, Hunger Signs, hard to find. Wish I had a copy. I did
pay for one, along with moneh sent to publisher for copies to send to
Australia, and they sent all the copies there, so I never got mine.

But there is a new one: Diagnosis of Mineral Disorders in Plants, vol 1
and 2, maybe there are more volumes now.

But I already combed these books for data for my book, as I already told
you, Organic Method Primer UPDATE, in which I have a good section on
indicator/accumulator plants, garnered from a variety of publications.

Did you see the response here from the authority on grass farming, a
frequent writer for Stockman Grass Farmer?  He said he was writing a book,
and his listing of indicators is longer than mine.

You also did not say in what country you live--maybe that might help us.

I learned  at UC, as a student, in the course on learning about soil from
airplane trips. NASA does that sort of photography all the time, maybe
they would help you, especially if you are in a foreign country.  I know
planes are used to fly over territory where the vegetation proves certain
minerals are there.

B. Rateaver
From brateaver@aol.comFri Apr 19 09:56:15 1996
Date: 19 Apr 1996 05:13:15 -0400
From: BRateaver <brateaver@aol.com>
To: sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Indicator plants

The mining people are aware of indicator plants, since the vegetation can
say: there is gold there,   or  nickel there,  etc.  So the Colorado
School of Mines may have something on this.

B. Rateaver
From kapib01@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.deTue Apr 16 13:24:48 1996
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:34:20 +0200
From: martin adler <kapib01@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
To: sustag-public@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Indicator plants



On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Mark Thorson wrote:

> In article <4krbos$5u8@altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net>,
> Frits v/d Laan <f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net> wrote:
> >I would like to get any information about plants that are known to 
> >indicate at a early stage anything to do with there environment,
> >shortage or to much of nutrician N, P, K, Mg etc.  or are sensitive for
> >or atract insects earlier than most plants.
> 
> Lichens are indicators of air pollution.  Unlike vascular plants,
> they don't have any way to get rid of toxins, so they are
> particularly sensitive to environmental pollution.
> 

some (epiphytic) mosses are as well. e.g. (in central europe) most 
orthotrichum spec. tend to disappear with increasing air pollution (
or over-nutrition), a few like o.diaphanum tend to profit from this as 
long as the changes are not too severe.

concerning lichens, there are a few that are rather resistant and may
profit from environmental changes, such as xanthoria parietina or 
lecanora muralis.
AUTHOR(s):       Kennedy, Decland  
TITLE(s):        Permaculture and the sustainable city.  
Summary:         "A design method abandoning the linear sectoral
                   oreganization of human support systems and creating
                   linkages between the various elements - each enhancing the
                   function of the others - similar to the way in which highly
                   ddeveloped organisms work": the role of urban
                   municipalities in optimizing the overall yield and creating
                   beauty, flexibility and responsiveness.                    
           In:   Ekistics.  oikistike.  
                 MAY 01 1991 v 58 n 348 / 349  
         Page:   210  

AUTHOR(s):       Pleasant, Barbara  
TITLE(s):        Translating permaculture-: Australia's Bill Mollison tells
                   how to achieve a landscape of food, beauty and restored
                   natural habitat.                                           
           In:   Organic gardening.  
                 APR 01 1990 v 37 n 4  
         Page:   42  

AUTHOR(s):       Ketchum, Richard M.  
TITLE(s):        In the Hands of Willem Kips.  
Summary:         One of the world's most successful growers believes the
                   future of agriculture lies in no-chemical, biodynamic
                   farming. Richard M. Ketchum reports from Holland on a farm
                   reclaimed from the Zuyder Zee.                             
           In:   Country journal.  
                 MAY 01 1992 v 19 n 3  
         Page:   53  

AUTHOR(s):       Todd, John  
TITLE(s):        Adventures of an Applied Ecologist.  
           In:   Whole earth review.  
                 Sprg 89 v n 62  

AUTHOR(s):       Quinney, John  
TITLE(s):        Out of the Ark and Into the World: New Alchemy turns pro.  
           In:   Whole earth review.  
                 Sprg 89 v n 62  
         Page:   33  


TITLE(s):        Organic gardening  (1988)  
                 Organic gardening.  
                 Emmaus, Pa. :  Rodale Press,  
                 [Emmaus, PA :  Rodale Press,  c1988-  

                 Living earth (Bristol, England)  
TITLE(s):        The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Association.  
Also called:     Living earth and Soil Association news  Oct./Dec. 1988-  
Also called:     Living earth with Soil Association news  Jan./Mar. 1989  
                 [Bristol, England] :  The Association,  1988-  

TITLE(s):        The New farm  
                 The New farm.  
                 Emmaus, Pa.,  Regenerative Agriculture Association.  

TITLE(s):        Is Your Tomato Really a Tomato? Your Guide to Good Health
                   in the 21st Century.                                       
Summary:         It may look and taste like a tomato, but its genetic
                   imprint could contain fish genes. Do consumers have a right
                   to know if the food they eat has been genetically
                   engineered? Plus, an update on the USDA food pyramid and a
                   new approach to organic farming.                           
           In:   Delicious]  
                 OCT 01 1992 v 8 n 7  
         Page:   16  

AUTHOR(s):       Ackert, Denise  
TITLE(s):        Guaranteed Sales From Subscription Farming.  
Summary:         Community supported agriculture yields rewards for both
                   organic farmers and consumers.                             
           In:   In business.  
                 JUL 01 1992 v 14 n 4  
         Page:   52  

AUTHOR(s):       do Pico, Guillermo A.  
TITLE(s):        Hazardous Exposure and Lung Disease Among Farm Workers.  
Summary:         Industrialization of farming, animal raising, and forestry
                   has added new chemical and mechanical hazards that need to
                   be recognized and prevented. Lung disease among farm
                   workers can result from a wide variety of hazardous
                   exposures that include organic dusts, chemicals, and toxic
                   gases. In addition to nonspecific symptoms of mucous
                   membrane irritation, farm workers can develop occupational
                   asthma or bronchitis, organic toxic dust syndrome,
                   hypersensitivity pneumonitis, silo                         
                 filler's disease (toxic hemorrhagic pulmonary edema), and
                   neuromuscular respiratory failure.                         
           In:   Clinics in chest medicine.  
                 JUN 01 1992 v 13 n 2  
         Page:   311  

TITLE(s):        Texas Sees Big Increase in Organic Farming: Growers focus
                   on crops once considered too difficult to grow without
                   toxic chemicals.                                           
           In:   In business.  
                 MAY 01 1992 v 14 n 3  
         Page:   38  

TITLE(s):        The Fresher the Better: Food update: subscription farming
                   and organic beef.                                          
           In:   Metropolitan home.  
                 APR 01 1992 v 24 n 4  
         Page:   83  

AUTHOR(s):       Hill, S.B.  
                 MacRae, R.J.  
TITLE(s):        Organic farming in Canada.  
           In:   Agriculture, ecosystems & environment.  
                 MAR 31 1992 v 39 n 1 / 2  
         Page:   71  

AUTHOR(s):       Cudjoe, Frank  
                 Rees, Philip  
TITLE(s):        How important is organic farming in Great Britain?  
           In:   TESG, tijdschrift voor economische en sociale ge  
                 1992 v 83 n 1  
         Page:   13  

AUTHOR(s):       Marshall, G.  
TITLE(s):        Organic Farming: Should Government Give it More Technical
                   Support?                                                   
           In:   Review of marketing and agricultural economics.  
                 DEC 01 1991 v 59 n 3  
         Page:   283  

AUTHOR(s):       Mitchell, Sandy  
TITLE(s):        Organic Farming in Worcestershire.  
           In:   Country life.  
                 NOV 14 1991 v 185 n 46  
         Page:   64  

AUTHOR(s):       Mitchell, Sandy  
TITLE(s):        Organic Farming in Worcestershire.  
           In:   Country life.  
                 NOV 14 1991 v 185 n 46  
         Page:   64  

TITLE(s):        Weed Control By the Book. Using maps showing variation in
                   soil organic matter and pH levels to adjust herbicide
                   rates, growers are improving weed control-and saving money.
                                                                              
           In:   Successful farming.  
                 AUG 01 1991 v 89 n 8  
         Page:   52  

AUTHOR(s):       Springett, J.  
TITLE(s):        Organic Farming - Learning Not to Panic.  
           In:   Search.  
                 APR 01 1991 v 22 n 3  
         Page:   83  

TITLE(s):        Red-Light District. Special sensors on fertilizer trucks
                   `read' organic matter levels.                              
           In:   Successful farming.  
                 DEC 01 1990 v 88 n 12  
         Page:   36  

AUTHOR(s):       Malpas, Tony  
TITLE(s):        Organic Farming.  
Summary:         Tony Malpas on how to plant an organic wood.  
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 OCT 01 1990 n 172  
         Page:   18  

AUTHOR(s):       Readman, Jo  
TITLE(s):        Growing in School.  
Summary:         A special feature looking at education and the
                   opportunities for teaching about organic farming, including
                   an interview with Damian Randle, articles by Jo Readman and
                   a critique of material on organic farming produced by the
                   agrochemical industry and details of the Soil Association's
                   new project.                                               
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 OCT 01 1990 n 172  
         Page:   10  

AUTHOR(s):       Broom, Sue  
TITLE(s):        Commercial Organic Farming.  
           In:   Country life.  
                 JUN 28 1990 v 184 n 26  
         Page:   126  

AUTHOR(s):       Nash, Tom  
TITLE(s):        Organic Growth.  
Summary:         With today's awareness of organic food, the farming and
                   retailing of it should be healthily profitable. Is it do
                   buoyant that you can start up a chain of slopes selling the
                   organic experience? Paul Jackson thinks so.                
           In:   Director.  
                 JUN 01 1990 v 43 n 12  
         Page:   98  

AUTHOR(s):       Dudley, Nigel  
TITLE(s):        A role for organic farming.  
Summary:         Nigel Dudley calls for a greater role for organic food
                   production.                                                
           In:   Town & country planning :  [the journal of the T  
                 MAY 01 1990 v 59 n 5  
         Page:   158  

AUTHOR(s):       Coates, Hugh  
TITLE(s):        Subscription Farming: A co-operative approach to organic
                   farming.                                                   
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 APR 01 1990 n 170  
         Page:   21  

AUTHOR(s):       Coates, Hugh  
TITLE(s):        Subscription Farming: A co-operative approach to organic
                   farming.                                                   
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 APR 01 1990 n 170  
         Page:   21  


AUTHOR(s):       Haines, P.J.  
                 Uren, N.C.  
TITLE(s):        Effects of conservation tillage farming on soil microbial
                   biomass, organic matter and earthworm populations, in
                   northeastern Victoria.                                     
           In:   Australian journal of experimental agriculture.  
                 1990 v 30 n 3  
         Page:   365  

AUTHOR(s):       Hartl, W.  
TITLE(s):        Influence of undersown clovers on weeds and on the yield of
                   winter wheat in organic farming.                           
           In:   Agriculture, ecosystems & environment.  
                 NOV 01 1989 v 27 n 1 / 4  
        Page:   389  

AUTHOR(s):       McNulty, Karen  
TITLE(s):        When Are Two Farms Better Than One?  
Summary:         When you want to compare the effects of chemical and
                   organic farming on the soil, that's when. Would Americans
                   go hungary if farmers gave up chemical fertilizers and
                   pesticides? Should the government ban their use? Debate and
                   decide.                                                    
           In:   Science world.  Teachers' edition.  
                 OCT 20 1989 v 46 n 4  
         Page:   13  

TITLE(s):        Organic farming. Jeffrey Fox reports on the US National
                   Research Council's recommendations for alternative
                   agriculture practices.                                     
           In:   Chemistry and industry.  
                 OCT 02 1989 n 19  
         Page:   619  

TITLE(s):        20% by 2000: Nic Lampkin looks at the evvects of organic
                   farming on food output.                                    
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 OCT 01 1989 n 168  
         Page:   16  

TITLE(s):        Spray Free Food.  
Summary:         Buy organic and avoid pesticide residues. A special feature
                   by Pamela Stephenson and Nigel Dudley, plus a plan to
                   increase organic farming to 20% of land by 2000 by Elm Farm
                   Research Centre, and a special feature by David Hodges.    
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 JUL 01 1989 n 167  
         Page:   12  

TITLE(s):        Going bananas over organic farming.  
           In:   Newsweek.  
                 MAR 27 1989 v 113 n 13  
         Page:   24  

TITLE(s):        Conservation: Organic farming and the environment.  
           In:   The Living earth :  journal of the Soil Associat  
                 JAN 01 1989 n 165  
         Page:   21  

AUTHOR(s):       Reganold, John P.  
TITLE(s):        Comparison of soil properties as influenced by organic and
                   conventional farming systems.                              
           In:   American journal of alternative agriculture.  
                 Fall 198 v 3 n 4  
         Page:   144  

AUTHOR(s):       Anderson, Christine  
TITLE(s):        Moving to the Mainstream.  
Summary:         Starting small in organic farming triggered success for
                   Valley Fresh Distributing, Inc., near Center.              
           In:   Colorado rancher and farmer.  
                 NOV 01 1988 v 42 n 11  
         Page:   12  
 ë€  .    ¨   ..   ë $ lead-info.PenPages-database  ë‚Ä lead-info-from-PenPages                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Thu Dec 29 22:35:46 EST 1994
Article: 4925 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Lead contamination
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.1081.1470@granite.mn.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 02:51:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 73


C> my concerns are about lead contamination.  our soil has been tested
C> and lead levels range from 140 to 600 ppm.

C> Does anyone know the following?

C> 1. does lead naturally occur in soil and at what levels? 

I used to manage lead clean up projects in the 80's, and might take a 
stab at some of your questions. I have seen background lead levels 
range from 10 PPM up to 250 PPM, with 50 being fairly typical. Your 
levels are fairly high, and characteristic of soils near traffic ways 
in urban settings.

2. Can lead be removed by growing a cover crop and disposing of it rather
C> than composting it? 

Lead, as I understand it, is not uptaken by leaves, stems, or fruits, 
or for that matter, most plants. Its problem is associated with the 
soil itself, meaning that it attaches itself to roots, which are then 
ingested. It is also a problem with the "pica" phenomenon of children 
eating the soil, which another pathway of ingestion. Finally it is a 
concern for the soil worker, in the form of dirt on the skin, dust 
which is breathed, or dust on the skin. Lead is easily absorbed 
through the skin.

Composting does not "treat" lead or other metals. If anything, it 
might dilute the metal a bit. Composting is used for treating 
explosives, petrochemicals, oil, gasoline, diesel, and some herbicides 
and pesticides. But microbes are not alchemists. They can not convert 
base minerals into other minerals.

3. What methods can be used to remove lead from soils? 

The only two methods I am aware of are to dig up the soil and remove 
it or to put a new layer of soil on top of the old.

4. What is considered a safe level of lead in the soil? 

Well, the EPA hazardous level I worked with in the 80's was 5,000 PPM. 
In sewage sludge and compost, the levels are set around 250 PPM as a 
maximum. Added over the years, since lead does not break down into 
anything else, even a 250 PPM compost or sludge could bring the soil 
lead levels up to 250 PPM if it started at 50 PPM.

Personally, If I had soils over 300 PPM, I would avoid growing or 
eating root vegetables. Over 500 PPM, I would keep kids from playing 
in the soil and would be concerned with skin exposure.

5. I
C> understand that tomatoes, eggpplant etc. are better to grow in lead
C> contaminated soils than leafy greens because the leaves absorb ythe
C> lead.  Is this correct?

Not to my knowledge, although there might be new data showing lead 
uptake that I am not aware of. Leaf uptake is typically associated 
with cadmium.  Root vegetables are the concern. Much of the issue is 
related also to the pH of the soil. The more acid the soil, the more 
likely a metal can get absorbed, the more alkaline, the less likely 
metals will leach.

C> any help/ advice that you can offer me to help remediate this
C> problem would be very appreciatted.  I would like to rehabilitate
C> the soil as much as possible rather than just using raised beds.



 * RM 1.3 02460 * What profit to gain the world and lose your soil?

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From hansm001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Thu Dec 29 22:37:03 EST 1994
Article: 4927 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news
From: "Thomas Hansmeyer" <hansm001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Lead contamination
To: libcomc1@CERF.NET
Message-ID: <50215.hansm001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_15
Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: lab7.soils.umn.edu
X-Popmail-Charset: English
Reply-To: <hansm001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 16:13:55 GMT
Lines: 25


>Does anyone know the following?
>
>1. does lead naturally occur in soil and at what levels?
>2. Can lead be removed by growing a cover crop and disposing of it
>rather than composting it?
>3. What methods can be used to remove lead from soils?
>4. What is considered a safe level of lead in the soil?
>5. I understand that tomatoes, eggpplant etc. are better to 
>grow in lead contaminated soils than leafy greens because the leaves
>absorb ythe lead.  Is this correct?
>

Something you should research is the pH ofyour soil.  I understand that 
lead will only become available to plants when the soil in more acidic.  I 
am not sure whether this applies to leafy vegetables.  As far as removeing 
the lead from the soil, a big problem.  You might be better off building 
beds with a soil compost mixture.  Getting back to the availability of lead 
to plants, a soil fertility text book would present the effect of pH on 
lead availabilty.  Contact me if you are not able to locate it.
-- 
              Thomas Hansmeyer
              USDA-ARS
              St. Paul MN
              hansm001@maroon.tc.umn.edu


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Sat Dec 31 11:03:35 EST 1994
Article: 4935 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Lead contaminationÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.1092.1470@granite.mn.org>
References: <aquilla.1139121949E@sadye.emba.uvm.edu>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 02:10:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 57


A> In Article <36.1081.1470@granite.mn.org>,
A> jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly) wrote: ...(deleted)... >
A> >Lead, as I understand it, is not uptaken by leaves, stems, or
A> fruits, >or for that matter, most plants. Its problem is associated
A> with the >soil itself, meaning that it attaches itself to roots,
A> which are then >ingested. It is also a problem with the "pica"
A> phenomenon of children

A> If this is the case, wouldn't washing remove most of the lead from
A> root crops? Tracy

Yes, Tracy,

Washing and scrubbing root vegetables will remove the soil, and hence 
the lead. From an EPA perspective, as I have read some of the 
background "statements of need and reasonableness" regarding the 
impacts of priority pollutants in the soil, the decision to set lead 
limits is based on the "Most Effected Individual" (MEI)

As such lead limits do not take into consideration soil pH, the crop 
raised, the likelihood of children eating the soil, or whether or not 
root crops are washed. They assume that all land application sites 
share risk to a greater or lesser degree. The MEI for cadmium, for 
example, would be a two pack a day cigarette smoker (#1 source of 
"natural" cadmium ingestion) who was a vegetarian who ate exclusively 
>from  his own garden, and then mostly leafy vegetables, who also 
applied cadmium laden sludge on his garden every year at three times 
the recommended rate for a period of thirty years. We are talking 
about extreme cases.

They do, however, provide for several standards and Parts Per million, 
levels depending on the proposed end use. But in the case of the 
person who was describing a community garden, the Class A standards 
for unrestricted use would apply.

It is not likely that a community garden would be able to keep 
children from playing in the soil or that the users of the garden 
would thoroughly wash their root vegetables, even if there were an 
educational campaign.

Given the fact that we know little of where our food is grown, it is a 
wise practice to thoroughly wash all fruits and vegetables before 
eating them.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org


 * RM 1.3 02460 * Mammals eating dinosaur eggs.

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From dgilrein@cce.cornell.eduTue Sep  5 23:12:14 1995
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:42:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Gilrein <dgilrein@cce.cornell.edu>
To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu
Cc: Andrew Senesac <asenesac@cce.cornell.edu>
Subject: Plant for reclaiming lead-contaminated land

    A co-worker is interested in any information related to
growth/production of Paspalum conjugatum, or sour paspalum, a grass he
claims is an accumulator of lead.  His thinking is that it may have value
in reclaiming lead-contaminated soils.  Any references or sources of
information on its growth, management, production or use for this purpose
would be of interest - please pass along to me.  Thanks.


From kjp@well.sf.ca.us Mon Mar 14 10:24:48 1994
Date: 12 Mar 1994 19:31:42 GMT
From: Karen Paulsell <kjp@well.sf.ca.us>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Lead, community gardens and food



We're just starting a community garden on (hopefully) two lots in Oakland,
CA. We got the lead-testing done, one lot is OK, at ~200 PPM, but the
other is pretty bad: ~4000 PPM. We took about a dozen samples from each
lot and made two composite samples  for this first test...we plan to go
back to the bad one, and take several discrete samples, especially from
a couple of spots where the soil is noticeably different than the rest.

Total "abatement" by removing the soil (if the whole lot is affected)
is (financially) out of the question, but raised beds or other methods
can be accomplished.

But I'd like to learn a lot more about lead. And food, and what food plants
are affected, and how, and remediation. It's especially important because
we're going to have classes from 2 grade schools participating, as well
as a local Teen Center, Senior Center, Alcohol Recovery Program, and
just plain folks.

I know the local community gardening association has some info, but I 
thought I'd ask the plant-science community. Online source especially
appreciated; as a non-academic, my access to really good libraries is
difficult (though still possible).


From kelly@u.washington.edu Mon Mar 14 10:25:32 1994
Date: 13 Mar 1994 18:11:03 GMT
From: Kelly Cassidy <kelly@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Lead, community gardens and food

(Worried about lead in soil.)  

>From what I remember about lead and plants, your main worry
will be children eating the soil.  Plants do not take up
lead readily via the roots.  Lead from contaminated air does
bond to leaf surfaces, but since most gasoline is now lead-
free that should not be a problem.  

I would advise further research, though. Pertinent questions
are:
Will soil acidity affect lead uptake and, if so, how acidic
is the soil?
Do some plants take up lead more than others?
If there is uptake, is the lead concentrated in a particular
plant part, like the leaves or roots.

If you are concerned, raised beds would seem to solve any
problem.

Kelly Cassidy


From ohgs@chatham.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 14 10:26:09 1994
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 07:57:00 +0000
From: Oliver Sparrow <ohgs@chatham.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Lead, community gardens and food

Lead is, of course, found naturally in places where people have
lived for millenia without drawing medical attention upon themselves 
for their unusual medical histories. Areas of Derbyshire, in Britain, 
are built upon low-grade lead ores and this seems to cause no ill
effects. As a previous entry indicated, few plants take up lead and
few forms of lead as sufficiently soluble to become biologically 
active in the human.

An interesting historical aside is that Britain suffered a plague of
gout during the Napoleonic wars. It appears that the claret-drinking
classes turned to cider during the period of hostility. Cider was brewed 
by crushing apples in ball mills, in which the balls were often made of 
lead. (Iron was cheaper, but dissolved). As a consequence (and as a 
result of the enormous amount of cider which they drank) many came
down with lead poisoning, a few consequences of which are the accumulation
of uric acid in the blood stream (and joints - hence the gout) and
dementia (hence the Rowlandson cartoons of choleric squires in bath chairs).
Bath chairs are themselves an icon of the era and a consequernce of the
malady. Taking the waters at Bath flooded the system with divalent cations
(Ca, Mg in particular) and these tend to displace Lead from where it has
accumulated. After a week or so of abstinence at the spa, our squire would 
be mobile, stable and himself again, until her returned to the cider!
_______________________________________________

  Oliver Sparrow
  ohgs@chatham.demon.co.uk

From pomeranc@goldsword.com Wed Apr  3 15:00:07 EST 1996
Article: 26635 of misc.rural
Path: newz.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!goldsword!usenet
From: Arnold & Jennifer Pomerance <pomeranc@goldsword.com>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Lead poisoning
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 01:09:13 -0800
Organization: thoroughly disorganized
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <315905B9.7ED8@goldsword.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pomeranc.goldsword.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)

Dave,

You and your wife should be checked for lead also.  If the 2 of you have 
high lead levels, then it has to be something you're all in contact with.

Jennifer Pomerance
Oak Ridge, Tn.
P.S.  While reading a scientific magazine some months ago I came across a 
short article about lead leaching out of lead crystal glassware.  It 
warned that wine or any other acidic beverage should NOT be served in 
lead crystal because the longer the liquid stayed in the crystal, the 
higher the lead count was!  Give me plain old glass anyday!


From mmut7@central.sussex.ac.ukTue Apr  4 09:40:10 1995
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:41:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Carrington <mmut7@central.sussex.ac.uk>
Reply to: hydro@Hawg.Stanford.EDU
To: hydro@Hawg.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Stabilising PVC

Sandro Bombardieri wrote:
> 
> Mike, 
> 
> If you are using PVC tube ensure that the pipe is calcium-zinc stabilised 
> not lead stabilized. Lettuces make great accumulators of heavy metals.
> I would use the pipe in a NFT fashion or even as flood and drain.
> Using a medium will restrict root growth and will require frequent flushing 
> with water to eliminate any salt build up.
> 
> I have a few formulations for tomatoes. One of them is my own formulation.
> Some are a three stage. Being a chemist i enjoy making up my own mixes, as well
> as cracking existing recipes.
> 
> Two of my friends are commercial growers. One is an Aquatic plant grower and
> the 
> other a rose and tomato grower. I have from time to time made crop specific
> mixes with great success.
> 
> see ya
> 
> sandro
> 
> 
 Ü€  .    ¨   ..   Ü $ Handbook-of-Bioremediation   Ü‚   books-newsletters-bbs    Üƒ $ biogeochemical.prospecting   Ü„ ( heavy-metal-tolerance-in-plants  Ü… < 0Exploration.Geochemistry.plant-hyperaccumulators     Ü† ( plants+toxic-metals.literature   Ý   indicator.geobotany  Ý! Ø .bioremediation.of.petroleum-contaminated.soils                                                                                                                                                                  From weewon@aol.com Fri Feb 24 22:29:20 EST 1995
Article: 5395 of bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!clpd-newsserver!news.nysernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: weewon@aol.com (Weewon)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: METAL UPTAKE
Date: 22 Feb 1995 21:48:05 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 11
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3igt15$lu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3ia6up$hfg@netaxs.com>
Reply-To: weewon@aol.com (Weewon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Dear Brian,
I am a student about to completew a bachelors degree.  My experience may
or may not be redundant to information you already have.  However, I was a
part of a study on the uptake of cadmium in tomato plants.  The pH, I
believe was maintained at 8...lower / higher pH produced a lower amount of
heavy metal uptake.  It was speculated at the time that the cadmium
molecule emulates the iron molecule which is required for nutritional
value by the plant.  If any of this is helpful...e-mail me at: 
weewon@aol.com...I can look up my observation notebook and refer to
them...if your knowledge exceeds this information, please e-mail me for my
own education.


 ó   .    ¨   ..   óè plant-picture.www-page                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
Sat 20 Feb 93  9:10
By: ALLAN BALLIETT
Re: New Alchemy/Ocean Arks

Here's documentation from the founder himself, John Todd, that New
Alchemy is dead, but the spirit goes on living and WORKING towards a
sustainable future!

==================================================

January 1 993

Dear Friends of New Alchemy

As you know, last summer the New Alchemy Institute officially closed
its doors. You may also know, however, that neither the vision nor the
work that began there have been lost. With the founding of Ocean Arks
International in 1983. there began a new phase in the research and
implementation of the ideas that first took form at New Alchemy.

Like New Alchemy, Ocean Arks was founded by John Todd and Nancy Jack
Todd and is a nonprofit research and education organization dedicated
to the creation and dissemination of the thinking and the technologies
fundamental to a sustainable future. Drawing on what we learned of the
ecology of aquatic ecosystems at New Alchemy, we since have created a
family of living technologies that now are restoring waters polluted
by human and industrial wastes to drinking water standards.

Working through The Center for the Restoration of waters at Ocean
Arks, we have created one of the most advanced ecologically engineered
waste treatment systems in the world which, after a few years of
extensive verification, is now legally permitted in two states. We
have begun to restore a highly polluted pond in Massachusetts w ith
our new floating Living Machine, Lake Restorer 1, opening a channel
for its use on water bodies the world over. Our Providence, RI and
Marion, Me research facilities have been making ground-breaking
discoveries in purifying industrial and toxic wastes. We have
demonstrated, on a laboratory scale, that Living Machines can break
down such highly toxic wastes as those found in Chattanooga Creek, for
which we have attracted the attention of Vice President-elect Al Gore.
We have also received continuing support from Congressman Gerry Studds
and Senator Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Joe Kennedy and
Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, to name a few, giving us a strong
vote of encouragement with the political leaders in Washington. Our
education program is reaching professionals and students with courses
in ecological design skills, aquaculture, food production, waste
treatment and environmental repair. Recently, we were granted the
Discover Award for Technological Innovation and the Teddy Roosevelt
Conservation Award by President Bush.

We have managed not only to survive but to move ahead with these
developments during a period when the environment was a low priority
in the eyes of government and most industry. But we have done so at
the cost of incurring considerable debt believing that the ideas were
too important to let die. Now, with the renewed promise of the
incoming administration and because of your support for New Alchemy
over the years, we are again turning to you to ask you to remain a
part of keeping its mission alive.

If you were willing, each of you could help us in some way. It would
be wonderful if you would consider any of the following suggestions:

1. Contribute towards a debt reduction fund or to our general support.
2. Help us to create an endowment, which would secure a future for our
work.
3. Help us find customers/clients in industry and in various
communities who need help cleaning up pollution and repairing
environments. Living Machines can upgrade drinking water reservoirs,
restore polluted water bodies and purify wastewaters.
4. Help spread the word. Subscribe to our publication, "Annals of Earth" an
updated equivalent of the old "Journals of the New Alchemists " .

1992 was a tough year for us. Salaries weren't always paid, yet our
morale remained high. We are a committed and talented organization -
dedicated to the Earth and to the training of its stewards. We are
ready with the skills and technologies to make things happen. It is
our hope that there will be a new environmental agenda over the next
decade and we want to play a key role in it. Please help us.

Sincerely,

John Todd, president

P.S. Your contribution is tax deductible. We now accept MC/VISA and
American Express.

================================================== Annals of Earth

The exchange of ideas feeds the roots of new thought. To this end the
Center for the Restoration of Waters publishes "Annals of Earth" to
disseminate the ideas and practice of ecological sustainability
throughout the world. It seeks, through written communication, to
foster the emergence of a new global culture. Published 3 times
yearly, "Annals" has an international roster of scholarly,
philosophical and ecological writers who deal with planetary issues
from a wide range of perspectives. While "Annals" covers and
chronicles the Center's activities, it also publishes articles that
range in subject from the philosophy of ecology, basic biology, hands
on environmental projects, to the Gaia Hypothesis. Distributed
world-wide, "Annals" is an intellectual forum for the presentation of
leading edge environmental thought.

A Publication Of Ocean Arks International and the Lindisfarne
Association Volume X, Number 2, 1992


$? Contribution
$15 Student/unwaged member
$30 Individual member
$35 Canadian member
$ 40 Foreign member
$ 50 Family member
$100 Supporting member $1000 Patron member

Membership includes subscription to "Annals", course announcements and
contributes to the work of OAI. Please make checks payable to Ocean
Arks International. We now accept MC/VISA & American Express. To renew
by phone, please call 508-510-6801.

  A Publication of Ocean Arks International and The Lindisfarne
Association

  OCEAN ARKS INTERNATIONAL

 * Origin: The Twilight Clone (1:109/70.914)
From fzscott@rocky.ucdavis.edu Sat Aug 12 23:52:51 EDT 1995
Article: 25303 of sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!rocky!fzscott
From: fzscott@rocky.ucdavis.edu (Scott Martens)
Newsgroups: sci.bio
Subject: poisonous plants--nickel hyperaccumulators
Date: 7 Aug 1995 21:49:53 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4061q1$ois@mark.ucdavis.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocky.ucdavis.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

There are relatively few plants that accumulate sufficient levels of
elements from soil to render themselves acutely toxic to herbivores. 
Nickel "hyperaccumulators", capable of accumulating more than 1000 ppm Ni,
however, can do so.  There are only about 200 or so nickel
hyperaccumulating species known, but they occur nearly everywhere Ni-rich,
serpentine-derived soils occur around the world.  We (Martens and Boyd,
1994) have shown that a Californian nickel-hyperaccumulator, Streptanthus
polygaloides (Brassicaceae), is acutely toxic to potential herbivores
(lepidopteran larvae, as well as grasshoppers), and demonstrated similar 
results for Thlaspi montanum (Brassicaceae) (Boyd and Martens, 1994).  We 
have also been able to show that fungal and bacterial pathogens are 
deterred by nickel hyperaccumulation (Boyd et al., 1994).  Large, mobile 
herbivores might circumvent the nickel defense simply by consuming a 
mixed diet, but many bacterial and fungal pathogens, and insect 
herbivores, spend all (or nearly all) of their lives on a single host 
plant.  Nickel hyperaccumulation seems to be an effective defense because 
of its high lethality, apparent low cost to the plant, and broad spectrum 
of toxicity.  For more info you might check out the papers below:


Martens, Scott N. and Robert S. Boyd. 1994.  The ecological significance 
of nickel hyperaccumulation:  a plant chemical defense.  Oecologia 
98:379-384.

Boyd, Robert S. and Scott N. Martens. 1994.  Nickel hyperaccumulated by 
Thlaspi montanum var. montanum is acutely toxic to an insect herbivore.  
Oikos 70:21-25.

Boyd, Robert S., Joe J. Shaw, and Scott N. Martens. 1994.  Nickel 
hyperaccumulation defends Streptanthus polygaloides (Brassicaceae) 
against pathogens.  American Journal of Botany 81:294-300.


Scott N. Martens
Department of Land, Air, and Water Resources
University of California, Davis
Davis, CA  95616

snmartens@ucdavis.edu



From boone@ese.ogi.edu Sat Jan 28 22:33:24 EST 1995
Article: 236 of sci.bio.microbiology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!boone
From: boone@ese.ogi.edu (Dave Boone)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.microbiology
Subject: Re: Oil-eating bacteria
Date: 20 Jan 1995 15:22:27 GMT
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute - Envrionmental Sciences
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3fokfj$amt@reuter.cse.ogi.edu>
References: <3f1aqi$30c@ohlone.kn.pacbell.com> <tjunier-1901951723170001@macc-roux313.unil.ch>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ese.ogi.edu

>>         I'm interested in doing a science fair project in the area
>>         of microbiology and I'm wondering if anyone has any information
>>         concerning oil-eating bacteria. Is there a specific type of
>>         bacteria? Where can one find it? Do you think I can base a 
>>         reasonably research project on it?

   [snip]
>So the bugs are probably quite common, and you could simply try to isolate
>them by designing an oil-containing medium.

Check the following reference for a review of hydrocarbon-oxidizing
bacteria and various media for their isolation and maintenance:

Eugene Rosenberg.  1992.  The hydrocarbon oxidizing bacteria, chapter 19,
p. 446-459.  In: The prokaryotes, volume 1, edited by Balows, Tru"per,
Dworkin, Harder, and Schleifer.  Springer-Verlag, New York.

-- 
====================================================================
  David R. Boone, Professor of Environmental Microbiology
  Oregon Graduate Institute, PO Box 91000, Portland, OR 97291-1000
  (503) 690-1146; fax (503) 690-1273
====================================================================


From lowell@cybergate.com Thu Feb 23 11:48:18 EST 1995
Article: 3293 of sci.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.mathworks.com!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!opal.cybergate.com!emerald.cybergate.com!user
From: lowell@cybergate.com
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture
Subject: Re: METAL UPTAKE
Date: 20 Feb 1995 17:02:32 GMT
Organization: Cybergate Information Services
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <lowell-2002950900110001@emerald.cybergate.com>
References: <3ia6pb$hfg@netaxs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: emerald.cybergate.com

In article <3ia6pb$hfg@netaxs.com>, osias@netaxs.com (Brian Osias) wrote:

> Dear reader,
>         I am working on a science fair project in which I am testing how
> pH affects the absorption of metals by radishes.  If you have any
> information on the biological affects of Al, Mg, Mn, Zn, Ca, Fe, Co, K, I
> would appreciate it if you sent it to me.  Thank you.
>                                                Sincerely,
>                                                Brian Osias
> 
> 
> --
> ---
> 
> Brian Osias * osias@netaxs.com

Any decent plant physiology or soil fertility book should have a
discussion on the biological affects of these elements (though
"biological" is a broad term they would more likely cover then plant
growth effects).

Generally pH affects the solubility of these elements and generally as the
solubility increases so does there absorption (to either they detriment or
enhancement of the plants growth.

There is a "famous" chart showing the effects of pH on uptake of various
elements in the "Western Fertilizer Handbook" (among other places).

-- 
Lowell

What a long strange trip its been


From earthsmt@sierra.net Fri Sep  8 01:14:59 EDT 1995
Article: 6689 of sci.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news.mathworks.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!in1.uu.net!news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!a2i!sierra.net!sierra.net!earthsmt
From: earthsmt@sierra.net (Earth Smart)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture
Subject: Soil bioremediation alternatives for hydrocarbon contamination.
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:46:09
Organization: Sierra-Net
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <earthsmt.184.000DC55C@sierra.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.94.233.221
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

After years of research at the University of Texas, a blend of 13 microbes 
collected from natural oil seeps around the world has been compiled.  This 
blend is proving to be a very effective, cost efficient means of transforming 
any natural hydrocarbon into 100% safe byproduct.  Hydrocarbon refers to the 
most important class of organic compounds that occur in petroleum and natural 
gas.  A partial list of hydrocarbons that are transformed by this blend are:  
gasoline, diesel, indene, benzene, tolulene, tylene, ace napthalene, kerosene, 
methane, paraffin, carbon, coke, coal tar, turpentine, oil based paint, grease 
and many others.  This blend is marketed under the name Earth Wise Formula 1 
and is FDA and USDA approved.  Earth Wise also meets all 1995 EPA requirements
for bioremediation.  The client list ranges from airports, marinas, restaurants,
service stations, wrecking yards, hotels, and the armed forces.  For more 
information on how to purchase Earth Wise please call Kim at (916)583-6952.

Sincerely,

Kim Smith
earthsmt@sierra.net



Article 1134 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ac571
From: ac571@Freenet.carleton.ca (Edwinna Von Baeyer)
Subject: Plant pollution fighters
Message-ID: <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: ac571@Freenet.carleton.ca (Edwinna Von Baeyer)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 00:23:03 GMT
Lines: 23


Hi.  I'm a freelance writer/editor specializing in environmental
topics, forestry, horticulture and landscape history.  Recently
I read a short,general article about Bill C. Wolverton's work with
measuring the amounts of household pollution caused by new carpets,
recent paint jobs, etc.that a number of common house plants could
absorb.  What I would like to know is where could I begin to search
for related work on this subject -- is there a database, an index,
or just specific journals I could check?  I'm not just interested in
closed support systems, but would like to research on other plant
experiments of the Wolverton type.  Any direction you could give
me would be appreciated.
Thanks,  Edwinna von Baeyer
-- 
Edwinna von Baeyer
Writer/Researcher/Editor
fax: (613)730-4246
email: ac571@freenet.carleton.ca


Article 1137 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!biosci!NETCOM.COM!wick
From: wick@NETCOM.COM (Potter Wickware)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Plant pollution fighters
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9304280820.A16966-b100000@netcom2>
Date: 28 Apr 93 15:34:24 GMT
References: <9304272046.AA06145@net.bio.net>
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 63

How about TOXLINE, from Natl Library of Medicine, Bethesda MD, available
from DIALOG.  It has over 1.6M records.

On 27 Apr 1993 louhelainen@cc.helsinki.fi wrote:

> In article <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca>, ac571@Freenet.carleton.ca (Edwinna Von Baeyer) writes:
> > 
> > I read a short,general article about Bill C. Wolverton's work with
> > measuring the amounts of household pollution caused by new carpets,
> > recent paint jobs, etc.that a number of common house plants could
> > absorb.  What I would like to know is where could I begin to search
> > for related work on this subject -- is there a database, an index,
> > or just specific journals I could check?  I'm not just interested in
> 
>  
>   Here are some databases:
> 
>   BIOSIS
>   ******
> 
>   File supplier:	Biosciences Information Service
> 			2100 Arch Street
> 			Philadelphia, PA 191103
> 			United States
> 			Phone (215) 5874800
> 
>    ENVIROLINE
>    **********
> 
>    File supplier:	EIC/Intelligence
> 			48 West 38th Street
> 			New York, N.Y. 10018
> 			United States
> 			Phone (212) 944 8500
>   
>    POLLUTION
>    *********
>  
>    File supplier:	Cambridge Scientific Abstracts
> 			5161 River Road
> 			Bethesda, Maryland 20816
> 			United States
> 			Phone (800) 6388076
> 
> 
>    HSELINE
>    *******
> 
>    File supplier:	Health and Safety Executive
> 			Information Centre
> 			Broad Lane
> 			Sheffield S3 7HQ
> 			United Kingdom
> 			Phone 742 768141
>                         Fax   742 720006






Article 1135 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!warwick!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!cc.helsinki.fi!louhelainen
From: louhelainen@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Plant pollution fighters
Message-ID: <1993Apr27.231312.1@cc.helsinki.fi>
Lines: 55
Sender: news@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Uutis Ankka)
Organization: University of Helsinki
References: <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 21:13:12 GMT

In article <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca>, ac571@Freenet.carleton.ca (Edwinna Von Baeyer) writes:
> 
> I read a short,general article about Bill C. Wolverton's work with
> measuring the amounts of household pollution caused by new carpets,
> recent paint jobs, etc.that a number of common house plants could
> absorb.  What I would like to know is where could I begin to search
> for related work on this subject -- is there a database, an index,
> or just specific journals I could check?  I'm not just interested in

 
  Here are some databases:

  BIOSIS
  ******

  File supplier:	Biosciences Information Service
			2100 Arch Street
			Philadelphia, PA 191103
			United States
			Phone (215) 5874800

   ENVIROLINE
   **********

   File supplier:	EIC/Intelligence
			48 West 38th Street
			New York, N.Y. 10018
			United States
			Phone (212) 944 8500
  
   POLLUTION
   *********
 
   File supplier:	Cambridge Scientific Abstracts
			5161 River Road
			Bethesda, Maryland 20816
			United States
			Phone (800) 6388076


   HSELINE
   *******

   File supplier:	Health and Safety Executive
			Information Centre
			Broad Lane
			Sheffield S3 7HQ
			United Kingdom
			Phone 742 768141
                        Fax   742 720006


 
  




Article 1009 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!vbell
From: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Vance Bell)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <114049@netnews.upenn.edu>
Date: 16 Mar 93 20:02:59 GMT
Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu
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Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu

I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
Massachussetts, and possibly other places.

I would greatly appreciate any references on this type of research.

The main source I presently have is an article on the New Alchemy
Institute, in Massachussetts, and a man named John Todd who has apparently
founded a company to promote the "technology."

Citations of reference books on plant abilities to sequester metals, or
treat water would also be helpful.

Thank You.

Vance Bell: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu


Article 1012 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 17 Mar 93 13:14:08 GMT
References: <93316214655.MIN-LRFAa00360.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Vance Bell (vbell@edu.upenn.sas.mail) wrote:
: I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
: ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
: attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
: Massachussetts, and possibly other places.

I don't have any references, Vance :-(

.... but a lot of work has been done on the water hiacynth (Eichhornia)
which apparently thrives when growing on all sorts of waste/polluted
water, and improves the quality of the water in the process.

I think there was a project to use the plant material produced, but I'm
uncertain what for because accumulation of toxic substances would make
it useless for feeding animals.

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 1013 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!clarke
From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke)
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Sender: news@watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <C41EpC.Aqs@watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 14:24:48 GMT
Distribution: bionet
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References: <93316214655.MIN-LRFAa00360.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Nntp-Posting-Host: lethe.watson.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
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In article <1993Mar17.131425.4355@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:
|> Vance Bell (vbell@edu.upenn.sas.mail) wrote:
|> : I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
|> : ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
|> : attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
|> : Massachussetts, and possibly other places.
|> I don't have any references, Vance :-(
|> .... but a lot of work has been done on the water hiacynth (Eichhornia)
|> which apparently thrives when growing on all sorts of waste/polluted
|> water, and improves the quality of the water in the process.

Disney-World in Orlando, FL is using plants to process their waste water.
I'm sure they would be glad to give you references ... good public
relations and all that.

Ed Clarke
clarke@watson.ibm.com


Article 1017 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!UCRVM2.bitnet!VJIMENEZ
From: VJIMENEZ@UCRVM2.bitnet ("Victor M. Jimenez")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
Message-ID: <9303172350.AA09136@net.bio.net>
Date: 17 Mar 93 23:50:40 GMT
References: <vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu>
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Universidad de Costa Rica
Lines: 19

Vance:

    I have no references, but I've heard that at the Instituto Tecnologico de
Costa Rica there is some people working in the matter.  Using the
water hyacint (don't really know how to write it, sorry).  You can try to
contact Juan Carlos Carvajal (jccarvaj@ucrvm2.bitnet) who is the manager at
that institute, and ask him to put in contact with the people who is working
in that project.

Good luck,

Victor

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
VICTOR M. JIMENEZ              VJIMENEZ@UCRVM2.BITNET
CIGRAS                         TEL. (506)-24-8554
UNIVERSIDAD DE COSTA RICA      FAX. (506)-53-3762
SAN JOSE, COSTA RICA
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Article 1019 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!cunninsd
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: plant-based, wastewater treatment systems
Message-ID: <9303181515.AA06685@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 18 Mar 93 15:14:57 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 65

Wastewater treatment with plants is a well established discipline,
but with recent advances in genetic engineering and the tightening
of certain regulations (including POTW discharge limits, storm
drain run off, etc.) it is being revisted by new techniques. 

Some random thoughts:

1.  A good review of the engineering component might be found in 
chapter 13 "Land Treatment" of WASTEWATER ENGINEERING: 
TREATMENT, DISPOSAL AND REUSE.  Revised by George Tchobanoglous.  
Published by McGraw-Hill Book Company.  Plants/crops have been 
used as a land treatment system since the 1880's.  

2.  Specific literature searches on the subject /or following people 
will also give quite a list of excellent references:

 B. C. Wolverton-  reed beds, aquatic plants, constructed wetlands
he is now with Wolverton Environmental (601) 799-3807

Reinhold Kickuth  (Germany)- aquatic plant filter beds -lots of good 
papers & research.

R.F. Stott - (try Letters in Applied Microbiology, 1991 12, 99-105 
"Sewage treatment with plants")

USEPA (1988) document- Design Manual- Constructed Wetlands and 
Aquatic Plant Systems for Municipal Wastewater Treatment, EPA 
625/11-88/022

3.  There are many companies that promote, sell, or install plant-
based, wastewater treatment systems.  Some are listed below, but there are many
more:

The Lemna Corp- St. Paul Minn. (612) 688-8813
BBI-Charles Town W.V (304) 725-6880
EEA -Marion, Mass. (508) 748-3224
Phragmitech inc- Cheneville, Quebec (819) 428-3640
Severn Trent (Coventry, CV3 6PR- IN UK) -M.B. Green  
   they are installing 100's of reed bed systems and seem to have   
   done a good job on the engineering parameter.
Environmental Engineering Consultants, Norwich, Vt 05055

4.  As an overall comment- the design, supporting matrix (soil, etc),
plant species and rates of degradation can all be improved by the R & 
D community. Degradation of toxins by the plants, and plant-
associated microbes is a relatively "hot" topic currently under
examination in a dozen labs. There is some excellent work being done
in this area at Federal, State and University labs. 

5. A couple of conferences to note with plant & Xenobiotic 
degradation components are:  

Meeting of the Air and Waste Management Assoc Denver June 13-18
Congress on Cell and Tissue Culture, San Diego June 5-9
ACS Meeting- Chicago Aug 22-27 A symposium on rhizosphere     
      degradation
Water Environment Federation Meeting (Fall)
Soils Science Society of America (Fall) 


The standard disclaimer applies about these not being corporate 
opinions, just mine.  There is quite a lot of information out there on
the flux of chemicals through this systems, plant uptake,
degradative capacity of plants, etc...  There is a lot of room for good
inovative botany/microbiology/hydrology etc. 



From m8827@oden.abc.se Thu Jan  5 21:28:24 EST 1995
Article: 4573 of bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!sunic!news.transpac.net!oden.abc.se!m8827
From: m8827@oden.abc.se (Lars Magnusson)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,sci.geo.hydrology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: INDICATOR PLANTS - REPLY  -  dirk.txt [1/1]
Followup-To: sci.geo.geology,sci.geo.hydrology,bionet.plants
Date: 4 Jan 1995 19:30:58 GMT
Organization: ABC-Klubben
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3eet1i$jue@oden.abc.se>
References: <3eb7lv$abk@gina.zfn.uni-bremen.de> <3edup8$hs8@wabe.csir.co.za>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sparc2.abc.se
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.geo.geology:15832 sci.geo.hydrology:894 bionet.plants:4573

Dirk Lamprecht (dlamprec@stellbos.csir.co.za) wrote:
: In article <3eb7lv$abk@gina.zfn.uni-bremen.de>, schuring@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Joachim Schuering) says:
: >
: >I am interested in the use of plants as indicators for for geological and
......
: I once heard that in Zambia there is a specific flower growing on copper rich soils.
: Have never seen one.

: We have a succulent in our garden which is supposed to extract heavy metals out of the soils. I still have to confirm it by doing 

Here in Sweden there is a coppermine Viscaria (some 10 k's from Kiruna
ironmine). That was found with help of a small arctic(?) flower with the
latin name Viscaria something. I have a vauge memory that Greenland 
Geological Survey (Vaster Farimaggade ??, Copenhagen, Denmark), were
using differents biological indicators, during a period in the mid-80:ies,
as well as some of the other nordic geo-surveys. Since I left geoscience 
at that time, my recollection is a bit blurred concerning bio-prospecting.

But You'll should be able to find people within the nordic geo-surveys,
try postmaster@sgu.se to see if they can forward any inquiries. GGU is
to my knowledge not on the net, specially if they have moved up to Greenland
during the last 2 years. 

Lars M


From bjford@cix.compulink.co.uk Thu Jan  5 21:29:17 EST 1995
Article: 4575 of bionet.plants
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uknet!cix.compulink.co.uk!usenet
From: bjford@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Brian Ford")
Subject: Re: INDICATOR PLANTS - REPLY  -  dirk.txt [1/1]
Message-ID: <D1wCJ9.ArM@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Organization: Rothay House
References: <3edup8$hs8@wabe.csir.co.za>
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:52:20 GMT
X-News-Software: Ameol
Lines: 6

I've published on the removal of heavy metals from soils by plants; this 
isn't "indicator" research but does interest me in species tolerant of 
metallic ions (including copper, cadmium, lead).

Brian J Ford.



From ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za Thu Jan  5 21:30:10 EST 1995
Article: 4574 of bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!ticsa.com!ucthpx!quagga.ru.ac.za!hippo.ru.ac.za!ccfj
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology,sci.geo.hydrology,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: INDICATOR PLANTS
Date: 5 Jan 1995 08:09:58 +0200
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In <3eb7lv$abk@gina.zfn.uni-bremen.de> schuring@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Joachim Schuering) writes:

>I am interested in the use of plants as indicators for for geological and
>hydrological conditions. The mapping of plant communities may give clues
>to soil density, water and nutrient content etc.

Oldenburgia arbuscula, a small tree up to 4 or 5 metres in height is
endemic to the Eastern Cape province of South Africa and is always
associated with outcrops of Witteberg quartzite, following the strata
closely.

It is a member of the daisy family, and is commonly known as "rabbits
ears".  There is some demand for the woolly leaves amongst florists,
but unfortunately there isn't a whole lot of interesting stuff
associated with the quartzite.

Another indicator plant is the Hydrangea - plants grown in acid conditions
produce blue flowers,  while those growing in alkaline conditions
produce pink flowers.

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Services     Grahamstown 6140   \      /      Fax: +27 461 25049
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/     Phone: +27 461 318284
   The views expressed above are not necessarily those of Rhodes University


From schmid@qm.c-plant.siu.edu Thu Jan  5 21:31:08 EST 1995
Article: 4581 of bionet.plants
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!biosci!qm.c-plant.siu.edu!schmid
From: schmid@qm.c-plant.siu.edu (Walter Schmid)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Plant Bioremediation Con
Date: 5 Jan 1995 06:26:12 -0800
Organization: Southern Illinois University at Carbondale
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           Reply         RE>Plant Bioremediation Conf. in Missouri
In Re: M.E.Lucero' request for information about the U Mo bioremediation
conference, a circular appeared in the mail yesterday. The dates are 19-22
April. Registration information is available at (314) 882-8320. I can't
find an internet address for e-mail.
Walter E. Schmid
Plant Biology
SIUC

InRe: Lucero inquiry: 
Does anyone have information on a plant bioremediation conference to be
held in Missouri in April?  






Article 1148 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!gdt!aber!wxc.aber.ac.uk!owner
From: owner@wxc.aber.ac.uk (Wasel Chemij)
Subject: Re: Plant pollution fighters
Message-ID: <owner.10.0@wxc.aber.ac.uk>
Lines: 36
Sender: news@aber.ac.uk (USENET news service)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.124.203.203
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References: <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 20:05:58 GMT

In article <1993Apr27.002303.3152@freenet.carleton.ca> ac571@Freenet.carleton.ca 
           (Edwinna Von Baeyer) writes:

>Hi.  I'm a freelance writer/editor specializing in environmental
>topics, forestry, horticulture and landscape history.  Recently
>I read a short,general article about Bill C. Wolverton's work with
>measuring the amounts of household pollution caused by new carpets,
>recent paint jobs, etc.that a number of common house plants could
>absorb.  What I would like to know is where could I begin to search
>for related work on this subject -- is there a database, an index,
>or just specific journals I could check?  I'm not just interested in
>closed support systems, but would like to research on other plant
>experiments of the Wolverton type.  Any direction you could give
>me would be appreciated.
>Thanks,  Edwinna von Baeyer
>-- 
>Edwinna von Baeyer
>Writer/Researcher/Editor
>fax: (613)730-4246
>email: ac571@freenet.carleton.ca

Dear Edwinna,
             There was a small article in the New Scientist magazine
that mentioned that Yucca plants can take nitrogen from some gasses
in the air - from amines I think.  This allows the plant to survive 
in poor soils.  In a domestic environment, these can act as natural 
air fresheners, any some of the 'odours' that humans and pets give
off that make a room stuffy or stale, are also amines.  The article 
is at least a year old, and there may be a reference to a more technical
article.
			Good Luck
			
					Vas
					
 Could you post you findings to the net?
 


Article 1149 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Subject: Re: Plant pollution fighters
Message-ID: <1993May2.221549.2647@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Apparently-To: plantbio@daresbury
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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Lines: 26

Wasel Chemij (owner@uk.ac.aber.wxc) wrote:
: [...]
: Dear Edwinna,
:              There was a small article in the New Scientist magazine
: that mentioned that Yucca plants can take nitrogen from some gasses
: in the air - from amines I think.  This allows the plant to survive 
: in poor soils.  In a domestic environment, these can act as natural 
: air fresheners, any some of the 'odours' that humans and pets give
: off that make a room stuffy or stale, are also amines.  The article 
: is at least a year old, and there may be a reference to a more technical
: article.

.... I heard, at a seminar a couple of weeks ago, that it would take
about 40% Yucca extract in a pig diet to reduce the level of ammonia in
the animal's gut to the levels claimed for commercial feed additives.

It seems that Yucca extract is a very popular product :-)

Does anyone know _how_ Yucca extract came to be used as a feed additive?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


From samba!sunSITE!london Wed Jan  6 21:35:35 EST 1993
Article 531 of bionet.plants:
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Methanol and improved yields
Message-ID: <1992Oct31.225947.1631@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Oct 92 22:59:39 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 44
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921031031241.MIN-LNRAa00274.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: >Along more practical lines, it seems that the increased turgor is caused
: >by the higher photosynthesis making more sugar in the "noonday sun", so
: >that there is more osmotic pressure and thus turgor.  Sounds OK, but
: >there are not direct data.

I'm surprised to hear that spraying methanol (a solvent that disrupts
lipid membranes) causes an increase in turgor!  What effect does
spraying *water* have on turgor?

The accumulation of large pools of sucrose is unusual except in
monocots.  Insolulable starch is the principal storage product of
photosynthesis in many species, and active ion-transport is responsible
for regulation of turgor.  Such transport depends critically on the
integrity of the lipid membranes in the tonoplast and plasmalemma.

: >Getting even more practical...
: >If you are growing tomatoes or watermelons in the Arizona summer you have
: >to water.  From a resource use standpoint, you can apparently cut down on
: >water use by spraying methanol which is a benefit.  It also seems that it
: >is beneficial from an energy standpoint in that the energy value of the
: >methanol that is sprayed on the plants is likely to be less than the
: >energy required to pump the extra water.
: >
: >Now about those explosions:  for most of the tender-leaved vegetables,
: >10-15% methanol in water was about right.  That is not going to burn.  As
: >with _any_ spray material, it is appropriate to wear a mask to keep it
: >out of your lungs (this even applies with water), and to spray when there
: >is no wind.

So, it's true: methanol _does_ cause blindness and insanity!

Anyone who works in a lab and is aware of the toxic effects of methanol
would find it difficult to believe that you are recommending spraying
it on a crop intended for direct human consumption.  Let alone the
health of people breathing the methanol spray.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


From samba!sunSITE!london Wed Jan  6 21:35:35 EST 1993
Article 526 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
From: <KASV-AJ@finou.oulu.fi>
Subject: DATABASE FOR EXPERTS IN BOTANY
Message-ID: <92304.084814KASV-AJ@finou.oulu.fi>
Sender: daemon@ousrvr.oulu.fi
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1992 06:48:14 GMT
Lines: 104


DATABASE FOR EXPERTS IN BOTANY


                              Anne J{k{l{niemi
                              University of Oulu
                              Department of Botany
                              Linnanmaa
                              SF-90570 OULU
                              FAX: +358 81 553 1500
                              E-MAIL: kasv-aj@finou.oulu.fi



Dear Colleague,


The doctoral (postgraduate) education is being developed and
organized in several fields of science at the Universities of
Finland. In botany, the programme for doctoral education is
coordinated by the Department of Botany at the University of Oulu
and the project is financed by the Ministry of Education. Since the
importance of the international cooperation between Universities
and Research Institutes at the postgraduate level is well
emphasized we are creating an international database for experts in
BOTANY, where experts/research institutes/university
departments can easily be reached on the basis of the key words for
example. For that purpose, could You please distribute these
database forms to the experts in botany at Your
University/Institute. Forms can be send back to: Anne J{k{l{niemi,
Department of Botany, University of Oulu, SF-90570 OULU, FINLAND,
or faxed: + 358 81 553 1500.




With best wishes,

                                   Anne J{k{l{niemi
                                   Coordinator of the Postgraduate
                                   Program
                                   in Botany




     We will inform You as soon as the database is ready for use.





DATABASE FOR EXPERTS IN BOTANY

NAME:____________________________________________________________
PRESENT
POSITION:________________________________________________________
INSTITUTE:_______________________________________________________
ADDRESS:_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
TEL:_____________________________________________________________
FAX:_____________________________________________________________
E-MAIL
ADDRESS:_________________________________________________________

EDUCATION:_______________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

PROFESSIONAL
EXPERIENCE:______________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
FIELD(S) OF RESEARCH: Plant Systematics __, Geobotany __, Plant
Ecology __, Ecophysiology __, Plant Physiology __, Plant Anatomy __,
Plant Molecular Biology __, Mycology __


RESEARCH AND EXPERTISE
(KEYWORDS):______________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

RESEARCH AND EXPERTISE (FREE
FORM):___________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

LINGUISTIC ABILITY (NATIVE AND
OTHERS):_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

REMARKS:_________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________

Send form to: Anne J{k{l{niemi, University of Oulu, Department of
Botany, Linnanmaa, SF-90570 OULU, FAX: +358 81 553 1500



Article 529 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umd5!williams.smcm.edu!bwilliam
From: bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Molecular distillation [was: Re: HELP: humongous leaves!]
Message-ID: <16519@umd5.umd.edu>
Date: 30 Oct 92 19:01:20 GMT
References: <1992Oct29.233303.4935@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
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X-XXDate: Fri, 30 Oct 92 20:04:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct29.233303.4935@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Tony Travis,
ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>There is little point in optimising water use efficiency in leaves
that 
>are not photosynthetically active and I guess that 'shade' leaves are 
>contributing little (or are actually sinks) in which case it would be
a 
>selective advantage to have fewer stomata on them.

I've certainly never run across a shade leaf with a negative 24-hour
net photosynthetic rate, and I would imagine that such a leaf would be
quickly shed. My own experience, and the literature that I'm familiar
with, suggests that the typical shade adaptations -- lower
concentrations of Rubisco, larger photosynthetic units (i.e., more
antenna per reaction center), and consequent general thinness and lack
of stomata (since conductance is generally correlated with
photosynthetic rate) -- are  to allow positive net photosynthesis
in more-or-less constant low-light conditions.  Indeed, these
adaptations are generally incompatible with good performance in high
light (e.g., sun flecks), and most shade leafs develop significant
photoinhibition even at quite moderate light levels.  That this may be
a problem without an obvious physiological solution is illustrated by
Oxalis oreganum, which has very low-light adapted leaves but manages to
survive intense sunflecks by folding its leafs so that they're parallel
with the rays in the fleck, thus greatly reducing absorbed intensity.
 ___________________________________
William E. Williams, bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu
Divison of Natural Sciences and Mathematics
St. Mary's College of Maryland
St. Mary's City, MD 20686


Article 539 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Methanol and improved yields
Message-ID: <1992Nov2.162126.19851@mail.cornell.edu>
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In article <1992Oct31.225947.1631@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Tony Travis,
ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>Anyone who works in a lab and is aware of the toxic effects of methanol
>would find it difficult to believe that you are recommending spraying
>it on a crop intended for direct human consumption.  Let alone the
>health of people breathing the methanol spray.

I am the source of at least part of this posting, so I would respond to
your concerns by saying that the recommendations are from Nonpomura and
Benson, not me.  I would make absolutely no recommendation regarding
whether this is appropriate for any particular individual.  There was a
discussion about it on alt.coevolution, but none of the discussants had
read the article.  I gave an opinionated translation of the original work
so that people had an opportunity to discuss that which was actually in
the article rather than what they imagined miight be in it.

I should add that I AM a lab rat, and that in my short carreer as a
horticultusrist, I have not yet gotten into spraying.  However, I have
learned some interesting things about sprays.  One is that the carriers
in most of the formulations sprayed directly on leaves make 10% methanol
look positively benign.  (These are the inert ingredients.)  As it
happens, Nomura and Benson spend much of their paper figuring out what
the toxic concentration of methanol is for a wide variety of plants. 
They then did trials with lower concentrations.
  
This paper has gotten a considerable amount of press, and with the 40%
yield increases they describe, I am sure that it will stay in the news
for a while.  My opinion is that they describe some provocative results
with speculation on a mechanism.  Has Andy Benson started selling snake
oil?  I surely do not know, but this is a long way from being
incorporated into common agricultural practice.  While the plant
physiology is provocative, the practical agriculture is pedestrian.


Article 575 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
From: guptaa2@pell1l3.alleg.edu (Ajay Gupta)
Subject: INFO NEEDED-DDT UPTAKE AND METABOLISM IN PLANTS
Message-ID: <1992Nov11.032524.3967@pellns.alleg.edu>
Sender: news@pellns.alleg.edu
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:25:24 GMT
Lines: 8

I am doing my senior thesis on DDT uptake and metabolism in plants and  
using plants to reclaim contaminated areas. I need information on what  
kinds of plants are able to absorb DDT efficiently. Place of uptake, if it  
is metabolized, storage, etc, etc etc. I am interested in any information  
you might have on the subject. I will be grateful for any help I can get.

Reply to,
          guptaa2@alleg.edu


Article 576 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Subject: Deforestation and AIDS
Message-ID: <1992Nov11.132150.9180@mail.cornell.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 11 Nov 92 08: 25:51 GMT
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The following information is from a UPI article dated 9 Nov, 1992:

Plant explorer D.D. Soejarto the Field Museum of Natural History at the
University of Chicago has been collecting plant materials from the
Malaysian rainforest and examining them for medicinal properties.  

The good news:  a natural substance, calanolide, in the tree Calophyllum
langerum blocks the effect of AZT-resistant HIV-1 without great toxicity
to the human cell.  

The bad news: When Soejarto returned to the collecting site, the tree was
gone.
----------------
When you have trouble replicating your next great discovery, think of Dr.
Soejarto!


Article 579 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news
From: Kathie Hodge <kh11@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Aspergillus niger question
Message-ID: <1992Nov11.172607.11998@mail.cornell.edu>
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References: <1992Nov6.145423.1835@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:26:07 GMT
Lines: 39

In article <1992Nov7.013418.8080@samba.oit.unc.edu> Larry London,
london@calypso.uucp writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.145423.1835@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> wcf@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
writes:
>>We are looking for information concerning the spraying of a product
>>used as biological pest control which may be contaminated with 
>>Aspergillus niger. What are the possible hazards associated with
>>this organism related to plants or animals.
>
>Isn't this the active ingredient in BEANO which is added to cooked beans
>as a digestive aid? It would also be excellent on compost piles to help
>convert raw biomass to humus. I think it breaks down cellulose & maybe
lignin.


Aspergillus niger is one of the most abundant of fungal saprobes.  There
is a whole group of species in Aspergillus (group Niger) that produce
black spores, and the taxonomy of these is difficult, so if you're
looking for further info on your contaminant, you should be sure you've
really got A. niger, and not just something in the Niger group  (see
Raper & Fennel, 1965.  _The Genus Aspergillus_ for a good, if old,
overview).

Various species have been used in industry to produce many different
compounds, including, I suspect, the active enzyme(s) in BEANO.  I don't
think the fungus itself is in there.

Although species in the Niger group grow normally as saprobes (mainly in
my frig, it seems!) they've also been reported to cause plant diseases
including peanut crown rot, cotton boll rot, onion black mold, etc.  The
spores of many species of Aspergillus are powerful allergens.  They
haven't been known as significant agents of human disease, but they are
certainly facultative pathogens,  A. niger can cause a nasty infection of
the outer ear.

Hope this helps.  

Kathie Hodge
kh11@cornell.edu


Article 605 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.biology.tropical:113 bionet.plants:605
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!jvnc.net!yale.edu!news.yale.edu!venus.ycc.yale.edu!weed
From: weed@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.biology.tropical,bionet.plants
Subject: information on conservation-oriented politics please
Message-ID: <1992Nov15.111859.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>
Date: 15 Nov 92 15:18:59 GMT
Sender: news@news.yale.edu (USENET News System)
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Nntp-Posting-Host: old-venus.ycc.yale.edu

I am a senior undergraduate, working on my senior essay in the Department of
Political Science, here at Yale.  The essay is focused on conservation of
biological diversity, and more specifically, on diversity conservation in the
  rain forests of South and Central America.  I have a good deal of information
on the biological, economic, and international political issues surrounding the
diversity conservation problem.  How   r, I have seen very little in the
literature on national, regional, or community-level organizations concerned
with either the pro-consumption, or pro-protection sides of the issue.  I am
told that very little is available in English on the subject, and am, therfore,
wondering if any researchers with recent experience in South or Central America
would be willing to detail their experiences in working with whatever
organizations may be extent in the region.  I have focused the essay toward the
international choices available t groups interested in conservation of
biodiversity, but have *no* information (which I can cite), to support the
supposition that interest groups on the national, regional, or local levels
exist in these countries.  Any first-hand   anecdotal evidence would probably
be sufficient to support the point that non-external forces are working to
conserve/destroy local rainforest diversity.
Thanks, in advance, for any assistance that can be provided on this matter.
Matthew Weed
Yale/Silliman 93.


Article 700 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: A big hello
Message-ID: <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 10 Dec 92 15:31:10 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 32
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.

Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!

: Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
: heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
: is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?

I worked for a while at Plymouth Polytechnic (UK) during the early 80's
when Lane and Martin were working on uptake of heavy metals by potatos
and strawberries, but I'm not sure what they published.

There are two quite different issues, I think:

One is uptake of heavy metals (ie. accumulation) and the health risks
for people eating crop plants that are grown on contaminated soil.

The other is exclusion of heavy metals by plants which are able to
survive in, and colonise polluted environments.

: Please reply on my Email address (botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca) or to everybody
: if you think they would be interested.

Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 723 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!cunninsd
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Message-ID: <9212151555.AA07029@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


	This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

	We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

	Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

	The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

	Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

	Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

	Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

	I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..


Article 721 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!donachie
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Heavy metals
Message-ID: <1992Dec14.131324.10744@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )


Article 723 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!cunninsd
From: cunninsd@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Message-ID: <9212151555.AA07029@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:43 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 98


	This is my first time on this network, but I heard a
discussion of heavy metals in plants was underway, so I 
thought I'd join in. Here at DuPont we have an active 
research program in using plants toremediate contaminated 
soils. For this effort we  have borrowed a term I first heard
used by Ilya Raskin at Rutgers' and called it 
"Phytoremediation". 

	We define phytoremediation as the use of green plants to
remove, contain, or render harmless an environmental 
contaminant.  This definition applies to all plant-influenced
biological, chemical, and physical processes that aid in site
remediation. Although our particular current research 
emphasis is the remediation of lead-contaminated soils, we 
are interested in most other metals and organics as well.  
Simply described, we propose to farm hazardous waste sites, 
biomine the metal contaminants, and reclaim the metals 
through postharvest processing of the biomass. We consider 
the entire process to have multiple, but interdependent 
components. For the technology to be useful each component 
must be sound technically and economically, and must be 
acceptable from a regulatory perspective. Our efforts in 
phytoremediation of lead-contaminated soils address all of 
these areas. I thought I would venture some general comments
on the area and see what reaction they brought.

	Although metal tolerant plants are relatively common, 
most do not accumulate significant quantities of metal in the
above ground biomass. Our metal-removal goals are ambitious,
paralleling removal rates of plant nutrients such as 
nitrogen, potassium, and calcium.  For plant-based 
decontamination to be sucessful, we must find, breed or 
engineer plants that absorb, translocate and tolerate these
metals. These three processes are separate, distinct and, in
some plants, mutually exclusive.(ie tolerance can be obtained
by lack of translocation etc.) We have found that 
combinations of any two processes in one plant are relatively
easy to find.  All three processes, working efficiently in a 
single plant with sufficient biomass to acheive the necessary 
metal-removal rates, will be more difficult to achieve. 

	The discovery or development of such plants might be 
assumed to be infeasible if it were not for the existence of
the hyperaccumulators that have been mentioned on this 
network. These naturally-occurring plants can be found 
growing on ore outcroppings and have spectacular metal-uptake
capacities. The sap of one tree has been mentioned previously
to have concentrations of Ni in excess of 25% dry weight. 
Alan Baker (Sheffield) lists plants with concentrations in 
excess of 1%  Cu and Co and 3% Zn, Ni, and Mn on a dry weight
basis.  Lead levels, although lower,  have been reported as 
high as 8,200 ppm in these plants. We are looking at these 
hyperaccumulators for potential remediation uses, however, 
due to their low growth habits and small biomass, they would
seem to be agronomically and climatically unsuited for 
phytoremediation of most sites. A breeding program to 
increase biomass and metals content is a long-term, crop-
development strategy that could be undertaken. Molecular 
biology, however, may offer valuable shortcuts !!! - (Check 
with your patent attorney, before you release it as this 
plant can have real and significant value)

	Parallel to our efforts with hyperaccumulators, we have
been exploring lead-contaminated sites for plants that 
accumulate lead. Our goal is to find, manipulate, and extend
the lead-uptake limits of these plants. We have collected and
analyzed many plants from Superfund, mining, and other
industrial sites in search of appropriate germplasm. Of the
plants we have analyzed to date, two plants have shown 
significant abilities to accumulate lead. These are hemp 
dogbane (Apocynum sp.) and common ragweed (Ambrosia sp.). 
Their lead accumulation abilities are considerable, but not 
consistent, however, across soils. Most metals, and lead in 
particular, have numerous forms in the soil, not all of which
are equally available for plant uptake.

	Manipulating the chemistry of the soil to maximize lead
removal requires balancing plant-nutritional requirements for
biomass production with the availiability of lead for uptake
by plants. We have found these to be often competing 
processes. Maximizing lead availability requires a lower pH 
and low solution levels of phosphate and sulfate, which 
directly impacts total plant biomass produced. The plant-
nutritional status of the soil must be continuously balanced
against the lead-availability status to maximize total lead 
removal.

	Pb occurs in all of the physicochemical forms measured
in a sequential extraction of contaminated soils, including
water-soluble, exchangeable, specifically adsorbed, 
carbonate, oxyhydroxide, organic, and other forms.  
Experiments have confirmed, however, that there are wide 
differences between soils in these Pb forms and in the 
ability of plants to pick up the metal in question.

	I would be interested in general comments on the 
approach, names of others working in the area, etc. etc..


Article 727 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!news.duc.auburn.edu!ducvax.auburn.edu!dr
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: A big hello
Message-ID: <1992Dec16.013256.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>
Lines: 28
Sender: usenet@news.duc.auburn.edu (News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax
Organization: Auburn University, AL
References: <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:32:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <1992Dec10.153700.17634@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:
> In article <92129225625.MIN-LVLBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : I am a "virgin" bionet user, this is my first message.
> 
> Hello, David + welcome to bionet.plants!
> 
> : Is there anybody out there who is interested in how plants deal with
> : heavy metals (ie Cd, Cu, Zn etc....yes O.K you know what a heavy metal
> : is). Perhaps were could have a meaningful dialogue?
> 
> <some deletions...>
>
> Ok, everybody - are you interested in discussing heavy metals??
> 

I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

	D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 731 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!bcm!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: A big hello
Message-ID: <1992Dec16.232652.12115@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:25:37 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 30
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <921216125757.MIN-LNDAa16551.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: [...]
: I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
: taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
: discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
: post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
: and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
: to introduce myself (I did not do so at the inception of this group, 
: for reasons I will style as virginal shyness).

Welcome to the group, David.

I'm glad that people are beginning to participate actively on the
bionet.plants group.  As plant biologists we have a lot to learn from
the molecular biologists experience of using the network, but we are
getting there gradually.

The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
their area of interest.

So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 730 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba alt.sustainable.agriculture:448 bionet.plants:730 rec.gardens:12520 misc.rural:4309
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,rec.gardens,misc.rural
Path: samba!sunSITE!london
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR SPECIFIC SITUATION
Message-ID: <1992Dec16.182829.29366@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Followup-To: bionet.agroforestry
Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
References: <01GSDRL3058W8Y5L0E@clust1.clemson.edu>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:28:29 GMT


In article <01GSDRL3058W8Y5L0E@clust1.clemson.edu> WMILLER@PRISM.CLEMSON.EDU 
writes:
>I am a blueberry grower located in Pickens County South Carolina 
>(western corner).  I am interested in switching to to 
>agroforestry system for reduction in frost risk along with 
>several other reasons.  The current system is grassed middles on 
>a highly erodible site.  It is in it's 10 leaf.   
>
>There is 5 acres of blueberries, we are adding 1.5 acres of 
>blackberries over the next 2 years.  Will also add raspberries in 
>the future.  We are a pick-your-own with limited chain stores 
>sales for a secondary market.  We are a small family business.  
>We are "sundowners".   The soils have a residual pH of about 5.2 
>unlimed; range from poor to excessive internal drainage within a 
>30 meters; have good surface drainage.  PHYTOPHTHORA CINNAMONI is 
>present.  Rainfall about 1100 mm a year.  Low temp. about 5-10 f 
>about once or twice a year.  Additioal information available on 
>request. 
>
>The gist of our thinking so far is frost is a significant risk 
>factor.  Bushes protected form the north sky by trees 
>consistently produce provided they have at 60% sunlight and root 
>competition is not a factor.  Thoughts - consultation with local 
>ag meteorologist suggests east west rows at about 100 to 120 ft 
>intervals.  Some Soil Conservation Service information suggest 
>50% porosity to wind and similar spacing and direction.  Clemson 
>University Extension forestry suggest loblolly pine.  It is 
>tolerant of pore drainage and and does not form epicormic shoots, 
>therefore would limbing up to maintain air drainage under canopy 
>and side limbing to keep it narrow.  Needles could be thrown to 
>row middles as mulch.   
>
>To be profitable, because of competition losses, there needs to 
>be interim product(s) as well as terminal product and cyclic 
>procedure. How about naval stores ie loblollyxlongleaf hybrids?  
>How about nut pines (Korean?)?  Should they be grafted? Whitepine 
>rootstock?  What about nursery sources of the above.  How about 
>the blackberry psyllid.  Pines seems to make sense as they have a 
>canopy during critical spring frosts but we have noted that 
>hardwoods are effective also.  Have thought about chestnuts but 
>wonder if they have the right tree shape(?) would not be to 
>competitive in terms of root system(?) and also have problems 
>with epicormic shoots. How about compatibility(ie alleopathy)?  
>Loblolly is reported associate okay/well with ericaceous plants. 
>
>I/we would love to here ideas and observations with supporting 
>literature and references that will bear up under scientific 
>scrutiny.  We are trying to make our production system 
>sustainable economically, environmentally and socially.  We do 
>use plant pharmaceuticals and are very conscious of their 
>characteristics with regards to environment and safety to all. 
>
>This maybe outside the intent of this reflector.  If so just give 
>it the old DEL. 
>Many thanks for your input.
>Walker Miller, Wmiller@Clust1.clemson.edu 





Article 721 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!donachie
From: donachie@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Heavy metals
Message-ID: <1992Dec14.131324.10744@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:13:24 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620
Lines: 20


 
 On the subject of hyperaccumulators, work in this lab is investigating the
nature of the complexes formed in these plants with organic acids, in order to
determine whether these provide a possible mechanism of tolerance for the
plant.  

  The levels of metal which these plants accumulate can be huge, Sebertia
accuminata, a tree from New Caledonia, has a latex which conatins, on a dry
weight basis, 26 % nickel.  This is the highest recorded concentration in any
living ( :-) ) organism.  

  I think that the act of hyperaccumulation is related to the site at which the
plant can be found.  We are working on Alyssum spp here, and these can be, and
are regularly grown in gardens in Europe.  We have plants which are known to be
hyperaccumulators, and as control plants we are using garden seeds bought from
a commercial supplier.  We think that they won't hyperaccumulate, if they do
then....

  Just some interesting info to pass on over the dinner table ( :-) )


Article 730 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba alt.sustainable.agriculture:448 bionet.plants:730 rec.gardens:12520 misc.rural:4309
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,rec.gardens,misc.rural
Path: samba!sunSITE!london
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR SPECIFIC SITUATION
Message-ID: <1992Dec16.182829.29366@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Followup-To: bionet.agroforestry
Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
References: <01GSDRL3058W8Y5L0E@clust1.clemson.edu>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:28:29 GMT


In article <01GSDRL3058W8Y5L0E@clust1.clemson.edu> WMILLER@PRISM.CLEMSON.EDU 
writes:
>I am a blueberry grower located in Pickens County South Carolina 
>(western corner).  I am interested in switching to to 
>agroforestry system for reduction in frost risk along with 
>several other reasons.  The current system is grassed middles on 
>a highly erodible site.  It is in it's 10 leaf.   
>
>There is 5 acres of blueberries, we are adding 1.5 acres of 
>blackberries over the next 2 years.  Will also add raspberries in 
>the future.  We are a pick-your-own with limited chain stores 
>sales for a secondary market.  We are a small family business.  
>We are "sundowners".   The soils have a residual pH of about 5.2 
>unlimed; range from poor to excessive internal drainage within a 
>30 meters; have good surface drainage.  PHYTOPHTHORA CINNAMONI is 
>present.  Rainfall about 1100 mm a year.  Low temp. about 5-10 f 
>about once or twice a year.  Additioal information available on 
>request. 
>
>The gist of our thinking so far is frost is a significant risk 
>factor.  Bushes protected form the north sky by trees 
>consistently produce provided they have at 60% sunlight and root 
>competition is not a factor.  Thoughts - consultation with local 
>ag meteorologist suggests east west rows at about 100 to 120 ft 
>intervals.  Some Soil Conservation Service information suggest 
>50% porosity to wind and similar spacing and direction.  Clemson 
>University Extension forestry suggest loblolly pine.  It is 
>tolerant of pore drainage and and does not form epicormic shoots, 
>therefore would limbing up to maintain air drainage under canopy 
>and side limbing to keep it narrow.  Needles could be thrown to 
>row middles as mulch.   
>
>To be profitable, because of competition losses, there needs to 
>be interim product(s) as well as terminal product and cyclic 
>procedure. How about naval stores ie loblollyxlongleaf hybrids?  
>How about nut pines (Korean?)?  Should they be grafted? Whitepine 
>rootstock?  What about nursery sources of the above.  How about 
>the blackberry psyllid.  Pines seems to make sense as they have a 
>canopy during critical spring frosts but we have noted that 
>hardwoods are effective also.  Have thought about chestnuts but 
>wonder if they have the right tree shape(?) would not be to 
>competitive in terms of root system(?) and also have problems 
>with epicormic shoots. How about compatibility(ie alleopathy)?  
>Loblolly is reported associate okay/well with ericaceous plants. 
>
>I/we would love to here ideas and observations with supporting 
>literature and references that will bear up under scientific 
>scrutiny.  We are trying to make our production system 
>sustainable economically, environmentally and socially.  We do 
>use plant pharmaceuticals and are very conscious of their 
>characteristics with regards to environment and safety to all. 
>
>This maybe outside the intent of this reflector.  If so just give 
>it the old DEL. 
>Many thanks for your input.
>Walker Miller, Wmiller@Clust1.clemson.edu 





Article 732 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba sci.archaeology:3409 sci.anthropology:1569 bionet.plants:732
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psinntp!sugar!claird
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:37:40 GMT
Message-ID: <BzD7qt.4u@NeoSoft.com>
References: <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us>
Lines: 182

In article <BzACz4.7IF@well.sf.ca.us> dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman) writes:
>Can anyone out there tell me what the best current dates are
>for the beginning of agriculture, and for the beginning of
>herding?  I have the impression that domestication of sheep
>occurred later than the domestication of grains, but would
>like to see actual references.
>
>Also, information on the approximate order in which the various
>food animals and food crops were domesticated would be
>appreciated.  Thanks.
			.
			.
			
Domestication is a marvelous subject.  That is,
it endlessly fascinates me.

This comes up often enough, by the way, that it
deserves to be in an FAQ.

The cheap answer is to instruct you to look in
recent Scientific Americans; there was, for ex-
ample, a review this fall of the archaeology of
some of the early Eurasian horse pastoralists.
There is much, much more to it than this, though.

Humans have practiced domestication all around the
globe, and throughout the last ten thousand years
or so.  Well-attested dog remains have been found
dating back around 10,000 years in Idaho, Britain,
Turkey, ... (what's the archaeology of dingos?  Is
there genetic evidence that humans and dogs settled
the New World together 12000 BP?)  Plenty of people
believe that hominids and canids go back a lot
farther than that.  Cattle are descended from at
least two wild species; this process seems to have
been well underway by 9000 BP.  Sheep go back at least
7000 BP.  Swine have also been domesticated more than
once during the last 5000 years, probably first in
China.  Horses likely entered human society just a bit
later, and almost certainly in Central Asia, although
the date on this one seems to be subject to revision
backwards.  My position:  these numbers will continue
to be shuffled for some time into the future.

The first hard evidence for plant domestication
also dates from around 9000 BP.  Barley, sorghum,
sweet potato (!), rice, common beans, flax, egg-
plant, and maybe maize and avocados (!) have been
well dated before 7000 BP.

A different way to interpret your question:  does
a particular people domesticate plants or animals
first?  There's a lot of ideology tied up in an-
wering this question; it's probably best for you
to read some of the standard literature.  Don't
lose sight of these keys:
1.  domestication has happened at many times and
    places, and by many people.  It continues to
    the present (fox; kiwi fruit; cashews; high-
    bush blueberry; jojoba; various pines; red
    deer; ...);
2.  it's a rare society which is "isolated".
    Most peoples have been connected to a greater
    or lesser extent to the world economy, at
    least for the last 6000 years;
3.  domestication isn't irreversible.  Elk
    ("moose" to North Americans) and stinging
    nettles once were kept by some northern
    Europeans, and a number of ungulates by
    southwestern Asians; no more.
I like thinking about some of the marginal cases:
mesoamerican turkeys, New World rodents and camelids,
and the cervidae.  For a well-contextualized discussion
of a hunter-herder transition, look at

        Ingold, Tim
        1980    Hunters, pastoralists, and ranchers:
                reindeer economies and their transform-
                ations.  Cambridge University Press,
                New York

Most of the controversy in this field has to do with
the "scientific materialism" of archaeology; antagonists
become quite heated over such questions as whether it is
"winners" or "losers" that have innovated in agricultural
technique, and whether horticultural surplus antedates
political hierarchy, and whether social infrastructure
requires, or is required by, agriculture.  You can start
on some of these questions yourself in

        Reed, Charles A., editor
        1977    Origins of agriculture.  Mouton,
                The Hague

The classic that everyone criticizes is

        Boserup, Ester
        1965    The conditions of agricultural growth:
                the economics of agrarian change under
                population pressure.  Aldine Publishing
                Company, New York

For other views, try

        Ammerman, Albert J., and L. L. Cavalli-Sforza
        1984    The neolithic transition and the genetics
                of populations in Europe.

        Clark, J. Desmond, and Steven A. Brandt
        1984    From hunters to farmers:  the causes and
                consequences of food production in Africa.
                University of California Press, Berkeley

        Cohen, Mark Nathan, and George J. Armelagos
        1984    Paleopathology at the origins of agriculture.
                Proceedings of the 1982 Conference on Paleopath-
                ology and Socioeconomic Change at the Origins
                of Agriculture.  Academic Press, New York

        Cowan, C. Wesley, and Patty Jo Watson, with the
        assistance of Nancy L. Benco
        1992    The Origins of agriculture:  an international
                perspective.  Smithsonian Institution Press,
                Washington

        Centro linceo interdisciplinare di scienze mate-
        matiche e loro applicazioni
        1986    The Origin and domestication of cultivated
                plants:  symposium.  Elsevier, New York

        Dolukhanov, Pavel Markovich.
        1979    Ecology and economy in neolithic Eastern
                Europe.  Duckworth, London

        Flannery, Kent V.
        1986    Guila Naquitz:  archaic foraging and early
                agriculture in Oaxaca, Mexico.  Academic
                Press, Orlando

        Harlan, Jack R., Jan M. J. de Wet, and Ann B. L. Stemler
        1976    Origins of African plant domestication.  Mouton,
                the Hague

        Higgs, Eric, editor
        1976    Origine de l'elevage et de la domestication.
                Centre national de la recherche scientifique,
                Paris

        MacNeish, Richard S.
        1992    The origins of agriculture and settled life.
                University of Oklahoma Press, Norman

        Rindos, David
        1984    The origins of agriculture:  an evolutionary
                perspective.  Academic Press, Orlando

        Sauer, Carl Ortwin
        1969    Agricultural origins and dispersals; the
                domestication of animals and foodstuffs.
                M.I.T. Press, Cambridge

        Smith, Philip Edward Lake.
        1976    Food production and its consequences.
                Cummings Publishing Company, Menlo Park

        Zeven, A. C., and P. M. Zhukovsky
        1975    Dictionary of cultivated plants and their
                centres of diversity excluding ornamentals,
                forest trees, and lower plants.  Centre for
                Agricultural Publishing and Documentation,
                Wageningen

        Zvelebil, Marek, editor
        1986    Hunters in transition:  Mesolithic societies
                of temperate Eurasia and their transition to
                farming.  Cambridge University Press, Cam-
                bridgeshire
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546


Article 740 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba alt.sustainable.agriculture:453 bionet.plants:740
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants
Path: samba!sunSITE!london
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: More on Use of CCA-Treated Wood in Gardens
Message-ID: <1992Dec18.053251.24465@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, N.C.
References: <99.2b305654@ivgate>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:32:51 GMT


In article <99.2b305654@ivgate> bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org writes:
>                More on Use of CCA-Treated Wood in Gardens
>
>  On page 91 of the August 1992 _HortIdeas_, we reported that researchers
>in New Zealand have suggested that sawdust from preservative-treated wood
>(CCA: copper/chromium/arsenic) might be suitable for use as an amendment
>for garden soils, despite evidence the roots of some plants growing in
>contact with such sawdust can concentrate copper, chromium, and arsenic
>"to high levels." But what about the safety of placing CCA-treated
>"landscape timbers" in close proximity to food plants? Master Gardeners in
>Bexar County, Texas, took soil samples six inches deep and one inch
>laterally from CCA-treated timbers in several gardens, old and new; they
>compared arsenic levels in those samples to levels in samples taken 12
>inches laterally from the timbers. The results: between 1.1 and 1.4 parts
>per million of arsenic, regardless of whether the samples were taken near
>treated timbers or not. Arsenic often occurs naturally in soils at levels
>up to 20 parts per million; experts consider dangerous levels to be in
>the 200-300 parts per million range. The Master Gardeners concluded (in
>agreement with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) that CCA-treated
>timbers are acceptable for use in vegetable gardens.
>  The Master Gardeners also tested for creosote in garden soil near used
>railroad ties; none was detected down to the limits of the testing
>apparatus (660 parts per billion).
>  Reference: Calvin Finch, "Can I Use That Wood? Railroad Ties and
>Landscape Timbers Are Safe," THE GARDEN GATE, October 1992, 5. (Lane
>County Extension Service, 950 W. 13th Ave., Eugene, OR 97402.)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Reprinted with permission from the November 1992 _HortIdeas_. Copyright
>1992 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $15 (2nd class mail within the
>USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a subscription,
>write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY 40328, USA. 
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Bob Batson
>bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org




Article 742 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.plants:742 alt.sustainable.agriculture:454
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: samba!sunSITE!london
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: plants, metals and contaminated sites
Message-ID: <1992Dec18.073006.28643@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Summary: 260 plants tested for purifiying ability
Keywords: Kathe Seidel of Max Planck Institute
Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunsite.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
References: <9212151555.AA07029@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:30:06 GMT


Regarding hyperaccumulators, bioremediation, etc.:

See this article:

HARROWSMITH, The Magazine of Country Life
December, 1988
Number 18
Pages 38-47

"The New Alchemist" John Todd: Transforming Waste With a Rare Mettle
By Donella Meadows

-------------------------
From text on pages 43-44:
[quoted without permission]

"The effluent takes five days to wind from one end of the greenhouse to
the other. When it reaches the far end, it is filtered by the artificial
marsh - a gravel bed out of which grows a carefully selected thicket of 
water-loving plants. The marsh plants are chosen because they have 
commercial value (watercress) or pretty blooms (marsh marigold) or known
ability to take up toxic substances (cattails, bulrushes). Organic toxins
are broken down. Heavy metals accumulate in the plants and in any compost
made from the plants. That's a problem, but heavy metals are a problem in
every kind of wastewater treatment plant."
"I learned about these plants from Kathe Seidel at the Max Planck
Institute in West Germany. She's tested 260 plants for purifying ability.
She found that some would take up heavy metals and organic solvents and
even some, like that aquatic iris over there, that exude substances from
their roots that kill pathogenic bacteria. Hardly anyone pays attention to
her work. But she gave me the confidence that we could duplicate nature's 
way of making high-quality water."

----------------------
Lawrence
london@sunsite.unc.edu



Article 756 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!utcsri!utgpu!richter
From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter)
Subject: Re: Medicinal plants to grow???
Message-ID: <BzIwJM.Err@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCS Public Access
References: <1992Dec19.102555.1976@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:21:21 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <1992Dec19.102555.1976@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> lso@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
>I have a friend that is moving to Costa Rica.  He has grown ornamental
>plants for many years but would like to try and grow plants that could
>be used for medicinal purposes.  He would like to know where to get help.
>His questions include: what types of plants should he grow now and which
>ones are in demand?
>He has the ability to grow many different species but he wuld like any
>information
>on the culture of digitalis and others.

Unfortunately, there is no one source for detailed cultural information for 
medicinal crops, but we may be able to provide some.  As a start, we 
recommend two books which deal with commercial cultivation and marketing.  
They certainly not exhaustive or even very up-to-date, but they do help to 
get the prospective grower oriented on relevant production and marketing 
issues.  The books are: 

     _Culinary & Medicinal Herbs_ put out by the British Ministry of 
      Agriculture, softcover, 70 pp.  Available from us at $16 (Canadian 
      funds, plus postage and handling) 

and 

     _The Potential of Herbs as a Cash Crop_ by Richard Miller, softcover, 
      230 pp.  $24 from us. 

After your friend has studied these, we can provide more detailed information 
from our extensive data file.  

Conrad Richter 

-- 
Conrad Richter                     richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
Richters Herbs                     71550.3411@compuserve.com
Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada        Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641


Article 776 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.duc.auburn.edu!ducvax.auburn.edu!dr
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: A big hello
Message-ID: <1992Dec29.161716.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:17:16 GMT
References: <1992Dec16.232652.12115@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Sender: usenet@news.duc.auburn.edu (News Account)
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Lines: 46
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax

In article <1992Dec16.232652.12115@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:
> In article <921216125757.MIN-LNDAa16551.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : [...]
> : I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
> : taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
> : discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
> : post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
> : and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
> : to introduce myself [...]
> [...] 
> The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
> each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
> on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
> their area of interest.
> 
> So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

This past term, I had the good fortune to participate in the Advanced
Systematic Botany course (the other student-participants are pursuing
advanced degrees; I am classified as "staff" and am not currently 
pursuing a degree).  This is a directed readings course; each participant
was responsible for presenting approximately 3 classic systematic papers 
per week (ie. Duke Method).

A term paper was also required; my topic was "Chemotaxonomy of Astragalus".
As the completion of this paper did not impact the students, this became 
one of the jettisoned projects when other commitments arose.  The topic
is still of interest on its own merits (and it would not harm me to prove
to myself that I can [still] write a term paper), as are most issues of 
taxonomy.  My botanical interests tend to be focused in terms of ecology 
and evolution, as per Dobzhansky's oft-quoted observation.

I am also interested in the mathematical modeling of biological systems,
altho my decade-long hiatus (aka work) means that I am a *very* long way 
from understanding that again (what notebooks I have left are barely 
legible in an all-too-familiar handwriting, and mostly consist of copious 
incomprehensible notes occasionally peppered with a meant-to-be-helpful 
elucidation/comment:  "Yes, Obviously!  See also <**indecipherable**>.").

"I am happy and perplexed as a cat in a clam bucket."  - John Steinbeck

	D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 776 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.duc.auburn.edu!ducvax.auburn.edu!dr
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: A big hello
Message-ID: <1992Dec29.161716.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:17:16 GMT
References: <1992Dec16.232652.12115@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Sender: usenet@news.duc.auburn.edu (News Account)
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Lines: 46
Nntp-Posting-Host: ducvax

In article <1992Dec16.232652.12115@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>, ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:
> In article <921216125757.MIN-LNDAa16551.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
> : [...]
> : I'd be interested in such a discussion; my current interest would be
> : taxonomic in nature.  'Fraid I can't make any contribution to such a
> : discussion at this time, for convoluted reasons, best alluded to by my 
> : post, "Request: Recruiting/Luring Biologists to the Nets", in sci.bio 
> : and bionet.general.  That same post would also serve as a belated way 
> : to introduce myself [...]
> [...] 
> The essence of Usenet, for me, is the informal contact we make with
> each other by posting to a group such as this.  I began the discussions
> on bionet.plants by asking people to introduce themselves and describe
> their area of interest.
> 
> So, tell us something about your interest in heavy metals and taxonomy?

This past term, I had the good fortune to participate in the Advanced
Systematic Botany course (the other student-participants are pursuing
advanced degrees; I am classified as "staff" and am not currently 
pursuing a degree).  This is a directed readings course; each participant
was responsible for presenting approximately 3 classic systematic papers 
per week (ie. Duke Method).

A term paper was also required; my topic was "Chemotaxonomy of Astragalus".
As the completion of this paper did not impact the students, this became 
one of the jettisoned projects when other commitments arose.  The topic
is still of interest on its own merits (and it would not harm me to prove
to myself that I can [still] write a term paper), as are most issues of 
taxonomy.  My botanical interests tend to be focused in terms of ecology 
and evolution, as per Dobzhansky's oft-quoted observation.

I am also interested in the mathematical modeling of biological systems,
altho my decade-long hiatus (aka work) means that I am a *very* long way 
from understanding that again (what notebooks I have left are barely 
legible in an all-too-familiar handwriting, and mostly consist of copious 
incomprehensible notes occasionally peppered with a meant-to-be-helpful 
elucidation/comment:  "Yes, Obviously!  See also <**indecipherable**>.").

"I am happy and perplexed as a cat in a clam bucket."  - John Steinbeck

	D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 779 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 93 23:23:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 13

I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently
I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
careers in these related fields.  Any information
about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
 
Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
about this is also greatly appreciated.   

	 	 	 	 	 	Have a good one!

	 	 	 		 mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu


Article 781 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:28:32 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 38
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9313232241.MIN-LRPBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently

I'm showing my ignorance here (again) but what is Aeroponics?

: I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
: careers in these related fields.  Any information
: about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Did you cross-post this to bionet.jobs?

: Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
: of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
: crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
: about this is also greatly appreciated.   

Elevated levels of CO2 are generally regarded as beneficial in a
greenhouse but if you are burning fuel to produce the CO2 you should be
aware that SO2 and NOX (various oxides of nitrogen) are also produced
which may have an adverse effect on your crop.

Even if you are burning 'clean' low-sulphur fuel you will get NOX
production if the air in the greenhouse comes into contact with hot
surfaces.  This is one reason why the best greenhouses are heated by
steam pipes.

There was some work done at Fairfield Experimental Station near Kirkham
in the UK during the 1970's concerning the relative merits of heating
the greenhouse compared to just heating the solution used to irrigate
the roots of plants grown using hydroponics.  Sadly, Fairfield closed
down years ago, but I'm sure the work was published.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 782 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-040193104812@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:33:58 GMT
References: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 46

In article <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler) wrote:

> Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
> of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
> crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
> about this is also greatly appreciated.   
> 


Carbon dioxide (CO2) fertilization is a common way to increase growth in
greenhouses.

I have tested the effect of CO2 on pine seedlings (Pinus sylvestris) there
was an increase in growth (DW increase) up to about 3500 ppm.

The following examples is cited from a brochure from (snail mail adress)
AGA GAS AB, S-17282 Sundbyberg, SWEDEN. They sell gas and equipment for CO2
fertilization.


Plant        ppm CO2     comment

Tomato      1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)  
Cucumber    1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)

Roses        1000       Larger yield, better stem and flower quality

Saintpaulia 1000-2000   Faster growth (24-62%), 1-2 weeks earlier flowering
                        , more flowers  
       
Atmosperic concentration is 300-400 ppm CO2.
In a closed greenhouse will the CO2 concentration drop to about 100-150 ppm
this retards growth.
Effects on man can be observed at 20000-30000 ppm CO2 after some hours
exposure. The authorities in Sweden regard 5000 ppm as safe for workers
spending  all their working-hours in greenhouse.
____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 780 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!synapse!gilles.laberge
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <338.1903.uupcb@synapse.org>
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Lines: 23

To: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org
Date: 4 Jan 93 1am EST


MF>Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
MF>of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
MF>crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
MF>about this is also greatly appreciated.   
MF>

Well I think that supplementing CO2 will increase the
"Greenhouse effect" in the closed stucture which will
increase the ambient temperature. This will throw off the
flowers natural cycle and have an effect contrary to what 
your looking for (more growth, longer bloom periods).


                                       G.L.
                                       Ottawa,Canada
---
 . KingQWK 0.11. . 
                                                                                                                   


Article 790 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-050193085621@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 5 Jan 93 08:03:09 GMT
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu> <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 23

In article <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>, timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim
Perkis) wrote:
> 
> Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?

The review article:
Therory and techniques for steady state mineral nutrition and growth of
plants.
T Ingestad & A-B Lund 1986. Scandinavian Journal of Forest Research
1:439-453.

Matematical theory, culture and stock solutions, growth units and plants is
described in this paper. 

____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 778 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!kristoff
From: kristoff@net.bio.net (David Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: (none)
Message-ID: <Jan.1.19.22.45.1993.7059@net.bio.net>
Date: 2 Jan 93 03:22:45 GMT
References: <22@toano.win.net>
Distribution: bionet
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Biology
Lines: 33

mj@toano.win.net (Mary Jo Warsinsky) writes:

>INDEX PLANT-SCI

I will send you the BIOSCI FAQ privately which covers archive use.

				 Sincerely,

				 Dave Kristofferson
				 BIOSCI/bionet Manager

				 kristoff@net.bio.net


----------------------------------------------------------------------
New users of BIOSCI/bionet may want to read the "Frequently Asked
Questions" or "FAQ" sheets for BIOSCI.  There are two FAQ sheets for
the newsgroup system.  FAQ I describes the general purpose and uses of
the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups.  FAQ II provides details on how to
participate in these forums.  Both of these FAQs are available for
anonymous FTP from net.bio.net [134.172.2.69] in
pub/BIOSCI/biosci1.FAQ and pub/BIOSCI/biosci2.FAQ.  They may also be
requested by sending e-mail to biosci@net.bio.net (use plain English
for your request).  The FAQs are also posted on the first of each
month to the newsgroup BIONEWS/bionet.announce immediately following
the posting of the BIOSCI information sheet.

				Sincerely,

				Dave Kristofferson
				BIOSCI/bionet Manager

				kristoff@net.bio.net


Article 779 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 93 23:23:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 13

I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently
I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
careers in these related fields.  Any information
about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
 
Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
about this is also greatly appreciated.   

	 	 	 	 	 	Have a good one!

	 	 	 		 mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu


Article 780 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!synapse!gilles.laberge
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <338.1903.uupcb@synapse.org>
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Lines: 23

To: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org
Date: 4 Jan 93 1am EST


MF>Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
MF>of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
MF>crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
MF>about this is also greatly appreciated.   
MF>

Well I think that supplementing CO2 will increase the
"Greenhouse effect" in the closed stucture which will
increase the ambient temperature. This will throw off the
flowers natural cycle and have an effect contrary to what 
your looking for (more growth, longer bloom periods).


                                       G.L.
                                       Ottawa,Canada
---
 . KingQWK 0.11. . 
                                                                                                                   


Article 781 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:28:32 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 38
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9313232241.MIN-LRPBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently

I'm showing my ignorance here (again) but what is Aeroponics?

: I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
: careers in these related fields.  Any information
: about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Did you cross-post this to bionet.jobs?

: Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
: of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
: crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
: about this is also greatly appreciated.   

Elevated levels of CO2 are generally regarded as beneficial in a
greenhouse but if you are burning fuel to produce the CO2 you should be
aware that SO2 and NOX (various oxides of nitrogen) are also produced
which may have an adverse effect on your crop.

Even if you are burning 'clean' low-sulphur fuel you will get NOX
production if the air in the greenhouse comes into contact with hot
surfaces.  This is one reason why the best greenhouses are heated by
steam pipes.

There was some work done at Fairfield Experimental Station near Kirkham
in the UK during the 1970's concerning the relative merits of heating
the greenhouse compared to just heating the solution used to irrigate
the roots of plants grown using hydroponics.  Sadly, Fairfield closed
down years ago, but I'm sure the work was published.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 782 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-040193104812@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:33:58 GMT
References: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 46

In article <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler) wrote:

> Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
> of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
> crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
> about this is also greatly appreciated.   
> 


Carbon dioxide (CO2) fertilization is a common way to increase growth in
greenhouses.

I have tested the effect of CO2 on pine seedlings (Pinus sylvestris) there
was an increase in growth (DW increase) up to about 3500 ppm.

The following examples is cited from a brochure from (snail mail adress)
AGA GAS AB, S-17282 Sundbyberg, SWEDEN. They sell gas and equipment for CO2
fertilization.


Plant        ppm CO2     comment

Tomato      1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)  
Cucumber    1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)

Roses        1000       Larger yield, better stem and flower quality

Saintpaulia 1000-2000   Faster growth (24-62%), 1-2 weeks earlier flowering
                        , more flowers  
       
Atmosperic concentration is 300-400 ppm CO2.
In a closed greenhouse will the CO2 concentration drop to about 100-150 ppm
this retards growth.
Effects on man can be observed at 20000-30000 ppm CO2 after some hours
exposure. The authorities in Sweden regard 5000 ppm as safe for workers
spending  all their working-hours in greenhouse.
____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 783 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!koko.csustan.edu!rat!zeus!mffowler
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 18:58:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 10

Someone asked what aeroponics was.  Well, it's the method, developed in
Israel, that suspends the root system in an enclosed casing ( or
whatever) and mists the roots.  Larger plants with smaller root systems
have been achieved by this method.  I grow tomatoes this way and have
been successful in growth of 3 inches per day and by doing this I have
sped up the growth time a couple of weeks.  But, this technique is even
less forgiving than hydroponics.  Any other comments anyone?  Please
add.
					mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu



Article 784 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!marge.ecss.iastate.edu!sehari
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: What new innovation, software or products do you want to see?
Message-ID: <sehari.726179288@marge.ecss.iastate.edu>
Followup-To: poster
Originator: sehari@marge.ecss.iastate.edu
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:28:08 GMT
Lines: 23

---

What type of new innovation, software or products do you want to be
introduced to the market place.  No answer is stupid.  The things
that might be unachievable to you, might be very easy to produce
by others.  You could become part of history by initiating the process of
innovation.

Send your answers, along with it's possible applications to me via
Email.  We might be able to produce things that you might never thought
possible, for you. My Email Address is sehari@iastate.edu.

Thank you.

                       With highest regards,
                            Babak   Sehari.

P.S.  This message is being automatically posted to all unix wide bbs'. 
This post does not mean that I approve or disapprove this newsgroup.  Also,
the moderator of the moderated newsgroups, such as rec.humor.funny, should 
decide if they want this posting in their newsgroup.

-- 


Article 785 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!iat.holonet.net!timper
From: timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim Perkis)
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:57:14 GMT
Lines: 8

Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Tim Perkis		timper@holonet.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------



Article 786 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.200733.1367@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
References: <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:07:33 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>In article <9313232241.MIN-LRPBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
>
>: Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
>: of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
>: crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
>: about this is also greatly appreciated.   
>
>Elevated levels of CO2 are generally regarded as beneficial in a
>greenhouse but if you are burning fuel to produce the CO2 you should be
>aware that SO2 and NOX (various oxides of nitrogen) are also produced
>which may have an adverse effect on your crop.

Let's remember a bigger threat: incomplete combustion may produce
ETHYLENE......a plant hormone related to....undesirable "timing" effects
in greenhouses.

>
>	Tony.
>--
>Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis

---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         


Article 787 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bart.ecss.iastate.edu!sehari
From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari)
Subject: What new innovation, software or products do you want to see?
Message-ID: <sehari.726188419@bart.ecss.iastate.edu>
Followup-To: poster
Originator: sehari@bart.ecss.iastate.edu
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University of Science and Technology, Ames, Iowa.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:00:19 GMT
Lines: 23

---

What type of new innovation, software or products do you want to be
introduced to the market place.  No answer is stupid.  The things
that might be unachievable to you, might be very easy to produce
by others.  You could become part of history by initiating the process of
innovation.

Send your answers, along with it's possible applications to me via
Email.  We might be able to produce things that you might never thought
possible, for you. My Email Address is sehari@iastate.edu.

Thank you.

                       With highest regards,
                            Babak   Sehari.

P.S.  This message is being automatically posted to all unix wide bbs'. 
This post does not mean that I approve or disapprove this newsgroup.  Also,
the moderator of the moderated newsgroups, such as rec.humor.funny, should 
decide if they want this posting in their newsgroup.

-- 


Article 788 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!pathos!eagreene
From: eagreene@pathos (Elizabeth Ann Greene)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: postdoc position in plant molecular biology
Date: 4 Jan 1993 23:16:34 GMT
Organization: U.C. College of Natural Resources
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <1iaggiINNj0d@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pathos.berkeley.edu


I'm posting this job announcement for Vitaly Citovsky.  Please respond
to it via U.S. mail.  Do not use my e-mail address.  
Thank you,  Liz Greene

-----------------------------------------------------------
STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT STONY BROOK
DEPARTMENT OF BIOCHEMISTRY AND CELL BIOLOGY

Postdoctoral position in Plant Molecular Biology available starting Fall
1993. Specific areas of research include:

(i) nuclear targeting and transport of proteins and nucleic acids in
plant cells,
(ii) mechanisms of cell-to-cell movement of plant viruses, and 
(iii) molecular biology and biochemistry of plant intercellular
connections, the plasmodesmata.

Please send curriculum vitae and names and addresses of three references
to Dr. Vitaly Citovsky, Department of Plant Biology, University of
California, Berkeley, CA 94720 (before August 1993)
or Department of Biochemistry and Cell Biology, State University of New
York, Stony Brook, NY 11794 (starting August 1993).





Article 789 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Botanical software
Message-ID: <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:40:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 17

Botanical software of possible use?

Just yesterday I was browsing through the electronic section of a dept.
store, and noticed hand-held (calculator-sized) language translators,
dictionaries, baseball fact compendia, etc. It would be fun to have
a BOTANICAL KEY in such a format. You'd take this mini-computer into
the field, punch in floral characteristics, and it would give you the
Family, if not the very species. The writing has already been done in
Book form (major floras of regions throughout the world). It would be
a matter of converting the printed dichotomous keys to the computer
format, AND correctly diagnosing floral morphology.

Has this already been done, or is the market too small?

                          George S. Ellmore
                          Tufts University
                          Dept. of Biology


Article 790 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-050193085621@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 5 Jan 93 08:03:09 GMT
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu> <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 23

In article <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>, timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim
Perkis) wrote:
> 
> Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?

The review article:
Therory and techniques for steady state mineral nutrition and growth of
plants.
T Ingestad & A-B Lund 1986. Scandinavian Journal of Forest Research
1:439-453.

Matematical theory, culture and stock solutions, growth units and plants is
described in this paper. 

____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 791 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: What new innovation, software or products do you want to see?
Message-ID: <1993Jan5.105345.25166@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:53:35 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Followup-To: bionet.general
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 28
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9314231302.MIN-LFDAa15633.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: ---
: 
: What type of new innovation, software or products do you want to be
: introduced to the market place.  No answer is stupid.  The things
: that might be unachievable to you, might be very easy to produce
: by others.  You could become part of history by initiating the process of
: innovation.

Please send your comments about this to Babak directly, or set the
Followup to bionet.general.  I doubt if he will read this group anyway.

: [...]
: P.S.  This message is being automatically posted to all unix wide bbs'. 
: This post does not mean that I approve or disapprove this newsgroup.  Also,
: the moderator of the moderated newsgroups, such as rec.humor.funny, should 
: decide if they want this posting in their newsgroup.

If everyone who is irritated by this article would mail the sender a
long but polite message pointing out how inappropriate it is to cross
post on such a grand scale he might think twice before doing it again.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 792 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!VAX.CSC.CUHK.HK!S911896
From: S911896@VAX.CSC.CUHK.HK
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <01GT7J6V1LIS8WVZ18@vax.csc.cuhk.hk>
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:57:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 11

Dear nectters,

If you known how where to extract paper abstracts, and indices about 
plant biology through e mail or FTP, please let me know. Moreover,
How to access to the National Agricultural Library in the United States?

Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,

Qiu Yaowu


Article 793 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba sci.bio:7403 bionet.plants:793 bionet.population-bio:330
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!johnreed
From: johnreed@carson.u.washington.edu (John Reed)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio
Subject: Plant riparian population genetics
Date: 6 Jan 1993 18:21:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1if7ugINNeg@shelley.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio
Subject: Plant riparian population genetics
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Keywords: 

Hi,
	I am doing research on the population genetics of black cottonwood
(Populus trichocarpa) in some river valleys in the Cascade Mountains.  I
have searched for references on population genetics of plants (trees are
preferable) in a linear spatial system (a river or stream), but have had
virtually no luck in finding any.  It seems to me that the genetics of
such a system may be different than a typical 2-d system.  I would
appreciate any leads on references or studies you may know of concerning
population genetics of plants in a riparian setting.
Thanks
John Reed
(E-mail: johnreed@u.washington.edu)



Article 794 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.plants:794 rec.gardens:12750
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!dapsun.lif.icnet.uk!not-for-mail
From: js@montaigne.lif.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi <js@biu.icnet.uk>)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,rec.gardens
Subject: Drought resistant plants
Summary: Information requested on drought resistant plants
Keywords: drought resistance
Message-ID: <1ife7tINNhpo@montaigne.lif.icnet.uk>
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:08:29 GMT
Organization: Imperial Cancer Research Fund
Lines: 10
NNTP-Posting-Host: montaigne.lif.icnet.uk

I'm looking for information about drought resistant plants suitable
for a hot mediterranean style climate. I'm interested in any nurseries
specializing in such plants, and any books about them.
Please mail me or post whatever pointers you have.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
       Jack               js@bison.lif.icnet.uk
                         
If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
                -- Maslow


Article 779 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 93 23:23:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 13

I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently
I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
careers in these related fields.  Any information
about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
 
Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
about this is also greatly appreciated.   

	 	 	 	 	 	Have a good one!

	 	 	 		 mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu


Article 780 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!uunet.ca!synapse!gilles.laberge
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <338.1903.uupcb@synapse.org>
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: gilles.laberge@synapse.org (Gilles Laberge) 
Lines: 23

To: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
From: gilles.laberge@synapse.org
Date: 4 Jan 93 1am EST


MF>Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
MF>of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
MF>crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
MF>about this is also greatly appreciated.   
MF>

Well I think that supplementing CO2 will increase the
"Greenhouse effect" in the closed stucture which will
increase the ambient temperature. This will throw off the
flowers natural cycle and have an effect contrary to what 
your looking for (more growth, longer bloom periods).


                                       G.L.
                                       Ottawa,Canada
---
 . KingQWK 0.11. . 
                                                                                                                   


Article 781 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:28:32 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 38
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9313232241.MIN-LRPBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: I am a Aeroponics/Hydroponics hobbyist.  Currently

I'm showing my ignorance here (again) but what is Aeroponics?

: I study Horticulture in college.  I am curious about
: careers in these related fields.  Any information
: about these would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Did you cross-post this to bionet.jobs?

: Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
: of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
: crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
: about this is also greatly appreciated.   

Elevated levels of CO2 are generally regarded as beneficial in a
greenhouse but if you are burning fuel to produce the CO2 you should be
aware that SO2 and NOX (various oxides of nitrogen) are also produced
which may have an adverse effect on your crop.

Even if you are burning 'clean' low-sulphur fuel you will get NOX
production if the air in the greenhouse comes into contact with hot
surfaces.  This is one reason why the best greenhouses are heated by
steam pipes.

There was some work done at Fairfield Experimental Station near Kirkham
in the UK during the 1970's concerning the relative merits of heating
the greenhouse compared to just heating the solution used to irrigate
the roots of plants grown using hydroponics.  Sadly, Fairfield closed
down years ago, but I'm sure the work was published.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 783 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!nic.csu.net!koko.csustan.edu!rat!zeus!mffowler
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 18:58:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 10

Someone asked what aeroponics was.  Well, it's the method, developed in
Israel, that suspends the root system in an enclosed casing ( or
whatever) and mists the roots.  Larger plants with smaller root systems
have been achieved by this method.  I grow tomatoes this way and have
been successful in growth of 3 inches per day and by doing this I have
sped up the growth time a couple of weeks.  But, this technique is even
less forgiving than hydroponics.  Any other comments anyone?  Please
add.
					mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu



Article 782 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-040193104812@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 4 Jan 93 10:33:58 GMT
References: <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 46

In article <1993Jan03.232313.1313548@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler) wrote:

> Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
> of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
> crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
> about this is also greatly appreciated.   
> 


Carbon dioxide (CO2) fertilization is a common way to increase growth in
greenhouses.

I have tested the effect of CO2 on pine seedlings (Pinus sylvestris) there
was an increase in growth (DW increase) up to about 3500 ppm.

The following examples is cited from a brochure from (snail mail adress)
AGA GAS AB, S-17282 Sundbyberg, SWEDEN. They sell gas and equipment for CO2
fertilization.


Plant        ppm CO2     comment

Tomato      1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)  
Cucumber    1000-1500   faster growth, earlier and larger yield (25-30%)

Roses        1000       Larger yield, better stem and flower quality

Saintpaulia 1000-2000   Faster growth (24-62%), 1-2 weeks earlier flowering
                        , more flowers  
       
Atmosperic concentration is 300-400 ppm CO2.
In a closed greenhouse will the CO2 concentration drop to about 100-150 ppm
this retards growth.
Effects on man can be observed at 20000-30000 ppm CO2 after some hours
exposure. The authorities in Sweden regard 5000 ppm as safe for workers
spending  all their working-hours in greenhouse.
____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 783 of bionet.plants:
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Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 18:58:13 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 10

Someone asked what aeroponics was.  Well, it's the method, developed in
Israel, that suspends the root system in an enclosed casing ( or
whatever) and mists the roots.  Larger plants with smaller root systems
have been achieved by this method.  I grow tomatoes this way and have
been successful in growth of 3 inches per day and by doing this I have
sped up the growth time a couple of weeks.  But, this technique is even
less forgiving than hydroponics.  Any other comments anyone?  Please
add.
					mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu



Article 785 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!iat.holonet.net!timper
From: timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim Perkis)
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:57:14 GMT
Lines: 8

Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Tim Perkis		timper@holonet.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------



Article 786 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Re: Hydroponics & CO2
Message-ID: <1993Jan4.200733.1367@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
References: <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:07:33 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <1993Jan4.104210.24053@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>In article <9313232241.MIN-LRPBa00330.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
>
>: Oh...Since I am here-  I am curious what the effects 
>: of supplementing Carbon Dioxide to my greenhouse
>: crop of flowers and vegetables.  Any suggestions 
>: about this is also greatly appreciated.   
>
>Elevated levels of CO2 are generally regarded as beneficial in a
>greenhouse but if you are burning fuel to produce the CO2 you should be
>aware that SO2 and NOX (various oxides of nitrogen) are also produced
>which may have an adverse effect on your crop.

Let's remember a bigger threat: incomplete combustion may produce
ETHYLENE......a plant hormone related to....undesirable "timing" effects
in greenhouses.

>
>	Tony.
>--
>Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis

---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         


Article 785 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!iat.holonet.net!timper
From: timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim Perkis)
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:57:14 GMT
Lines: 8

Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Tim Perkis		timper@holonet.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------



Article 790 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sluger!skog2112.sgen.slu.se!user
From: Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se (Roland Gronroos)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Aeroponics
Message-ID: <Roland.Gronroos-050193085621@skog2112.sgen.slu.se>
Date: 5 Jan 93 08:03:09 GMT
References: <1993Jan04.185813.119799@zeus.calpoly.edu> <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>
Sender: usenet@pinus.slu.se (Usenet)
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Lines: 23

In article <C0CKvF.CyE@iat.holonet.net>, timper@iat.holonet.net (Tim
Perkis) wrote:
> 
> Can you recommend any references on aeroponics?

The review article:
Therory and techniques for steady state mineral nutrition and growth of
plants.
T Ingestad & A-B Lund 1986. Scandinavian Journal of Forest Research
1:439-453.

Matematical theory, culture and stock solutions, growth units and plants is
described in this paper. 

____________________________________________________________________________
              Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences 
       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	       	  
Dr. Roland Gronroos 	       	                  Tele: +46 18 67 32 37 
Department of Forest Genetics  	               Fax:  +46 18 67 32 79 
Box 7027       	       	                	      E-mail/Datorpost:
S-750 07 Uppsala       	       	       	       Roland.Gronroos@sgen.slu.se
SWEDEN
____________________________________________________________________________


Article 794 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.plants:794 rec.gardens:12750
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!doc.ic.ac.uk!dapsun.lif.icnet.uk!not-for-mail
From: js@montaigne.lif.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi <js@biu.icnet.uk>)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,rec.gardens
Subject: Drought resistant plants
Summary: Information requested on drought resistant plants
Keywords: drought resistance
Message-ID: <1ife7tINNhpo@montaigne.lif.icnet.uk>
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:08:29 GMT
Organization: Imperial Cancer Research Fund
Lines: 10
NNTP-Posting-Host: montaigne.lif.icnet.uk

I'm looking for information about drought resistant plants suitable
for a hot mediterranean style climate. I'm interested in any nurseries
specializing in such plants, and any books about them.
Please mail me or post whatever pointers you have.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
       Jack               js@bison.lif.icnet.uk
                         
If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
                -- Maslow


Article 797 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba sci.bio:7422 bionet.plants:797 bionet.population-bio:332
Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsk!cbnewsj!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd
From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton)
Subject: Re: Plant riparian population genetics
Message-ID: <1993Jan7.215342.22845@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
References: <1if7ugINNeg@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:53:42 GMT
Lines: 12

Regarding populus tichocarpa, I read that this is one of the "balsam
poplars", and one of the most fragrant plants to have in one's garden.
Specifically, it is supposed to smell really good when the buds first open
in the spring.  So, I sent off for one, but when it arrived, no smell.  

I tried keeping it in a pot, but it died during the winter.  Before I order
another, was the book wrong, and this is not fragrant plant, or did it
arrive after its fragrant phase, or did the nursery send me the wrong
tree?

Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio
  


Article 798 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba sci.bio:7425 bionet.plants:798 bionet.population-bio:333
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!toby
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio
Subject: Re: Plant riparian population genetics
Date: 8 Jan 1993 00:07:55 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <1iigkrINNda@shelley.u.washington.edu>
References: <1if7ugINNeg@shelley.u.washington.edu> <1993Jan7.215342.22845@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan7.215342.22845@cbfsb.cb.att.com> djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes:
>Regarding populus tichocarpa, I read that this is one of the "balsam
>poplars", and one of the most fragrant plants to have in one's garden.
>Specifically, it is supposed to smell really good when the buds first open
>in the spring.  So, I sent off for one, but when it arrived, no smell.  
>
>I tried keeping it in a pot, but it died during the winter.  Before I order
>another, was the book wrong, and this is not fragrant plant, or did it
>arrive after its fragrant phase, or did the nursery send me the wrong
>tree?

P. trichocarpa ("black cottonwood") is a member of the section
Tacamahaca ("balsam poplars").  The yellow, sticky bud resin
is the smell of spring in the Pacific Northwest, and can be
quite strong near a big stand.  P. balsamifera has a stronger,
less pleasant (to me) smell.  I wouldn't recommend planting
either species near a dwelling with sewers or septic tanks,
as the Populus are notorious for clogging them with a
profusion of greedy roots.

Toby Bradshaw                       |
Department of Biochemistry          |  Will make genetic linkage maps
and College of Forest Resources     |            for food.
University of Washington, Seattle   |
toby@u.washington.edu               |





Article 799 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.plants:799 rec.gardens:12788
Newsgroups: bionet.plants,rec.gardens
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!Turing.ORG!nev
From: nev@Turing.ORG (Niles E. VanDenburg)
Subject: Landscaping with Native Plants
Message-ID: <1993Jan8.181208.20908@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:12:08 GMT
Lines: 62

                                 FORUM:
                     Landscaping with Native Plants
 
                           Co-sponsored by
                   the Lewis Ginter Botanical Garden
                                  and 
                   the Virginia Native Plant Society
 
                      Saturday, February 13,1993
                University of Richmond, Richmond, Virginia
 
 
 
Program:
 
"Why Use Natives" by Darrel Morrison
        Enhance the regional identity and ecological fitness in the designed
        landscape and reap the economic benefits and aesthetic impact your
        landscape can have from using native plants.
 
"Building the Framework of a Native Garden" by Dr. Alex Niemiera
        Utilizing medium and large native American woody plants to create the
        design of a garden is essential in creating height and maintaining
        interest. Expand your garden's palette to include unique natives that
        offer seasonal and cultural value to the landscape.
 
"Sunny Natives for the Landscape" by Kim Hawks
        How much sun does a herbaceous perennial need? Discover some of the 
        unique American plants for foundation planting, mixed borders, and
        meadow settings and also how they attract wildlife, butterflies, and
        birds.
 
"Gardening in the Woods" by Jan Midgley
        Even though most plants rely on sun in order to live, many plants are
        just as content with shady conditions. Discover a myriad of plants
        that are reliable in a shady woodland setting. Propagation of natives
        for the home landscape will also be addressed.
 


 
Registration is $45 and includes the symposium and lunch.
        Registration deadline is Feb. 8, 1993
 
 
To register or for additional information write:
        Lewis Ginter Botanical Garden
        P.O. Box 28246
        Richmond, Virginia 23228
 
        or call (804)262-9887
 
==============================================================================
 
Tim Williams
 
Education Chair, Virginia Native Plant Society
-- 
Niles VanDenburg
nev@turing.org
niles_v@cho000.cho.ge.com
niles_v@cho000.dnet.ge.com


Article 796 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!louie!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!johnreed
From: johnreed@carson.u.washington.edu (John Reed)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Plant riparian population genetics
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:27:28 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1ihsmgINNt30@shelley.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: sci.bio,bionet.plants,bionet.population-bio
Subject: Plant riparian population genetics
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Keywords: 

Hi,
	I am doing research on the population genetics of black cottonwood
(Populus trichocarpa) in some river valleys in the Cascade Mountains.  I
have searched for references on population genetics of plants (trees are
preferable) in a linear spatial system (a river or stream), but have had
virtually no luck in finding any.  It seems to me that the genetics of
such a system may be different than a typical 2-d system.  I would
appreciate any leads on references or studies you may know of concerning
population genetics of plants in a riparian setting.
Thanks
John Reed
(E-mail: johnreed@u.washington.edu)



Article 801 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!uwm.edu!biosci!BIO.TAMU.EDU!BRIAN
From: BRIAN@BIO.TAMU.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Abnormal tomato growth
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.930109151821.256@bio>
Date: 9 Jan 93 20:18:21 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Texas A&M University - Biology Dept
Lines: 17

In the course of our work with transgenic tomatoes, we occasionally
see callusing of the leaf veins, resulting in deformed leaves and
subsequent necrosis.  This occurs both in sterile tissue culture and
in the greenhouse.   It's difficult to identify exactly what triggers
the effect, since some plants are affected and adjacent plants are
not.  I would like to hear from anyone who has seen this before,
especially if they know how to prevent it.



Brian H. Taylor                         *   Ad hoc loc and
Dept. of Biology, Texas A&M University  *   quid pro quo,
College Station, TX  77843-3258         *   so little time,
                                        *   so much to know!
Phone:  (409) 845-7754                  *
FAX:    (409) 845-2891                  *   Jeremy Hilary Boob
                                        *   (The Nowhere Man)


Article 800 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!cgsvax.claremont.edu!goldsmig
From: goldsmig@cgsvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Info Request:  California Oaks
Message-ID: <1993Jan8.191334.1@cgsvax.claremont.edu>
Lines: 20
Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System)
Organization: The Claremont Graduate School
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:13:34 PST

I am looking for sources of information related to the growth of native
California oaks:  field studies, analyses of habitats, planting techniques,
etc.  For the past two years I have been making field observations of oaks
in Los Angeles, Orange, and Riverside counties in southern California.  My
desire (an avocation) is to plant oaks in some undeveloped areas whose oak
populations are dwindling.

Although I am a novice in this area, I do have access to several university
libraries, the INTERNET, and the libraries accessible through INTERNET.  I
would appreciate references that are available through these (and similar)
means.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you might give.  I feel quite strongly
about this endeavor, and I am anxious to learn all I can about the growth
of native California oaks.

George Goldsmith
Claremont Graduate School (student) and
McDonnell Douglas Corporation



Article 802 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!dkuug!daimi!mi!ctange
From: ctange@stat.bio.aau.dk (Peder C. Tange Noergaard)
Subject: Re: Botanical software
Message-ID: <C0MAIu.6t6@mi.aau.dk>
Sender: news@mi.aau.dk (Network News)
Organization: Institute of Mathematics, Aarhus University, Denmark
References: <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:49:41 GMT
Lines: 27


As i see it, the only advantage with a  dichotomous keys on a hand-held computer
is that you do not have to look for the next entry. But at the same time the
overview over the structure of the key is lost.

With a punched card key it is different, here some of the advantage is that
it vil be posible to use the key in the field which otherwise is difficult 
with lose cards.

There is a punched card key: Detremination of Angiosperm Families by Means of
a Punched-Card Syatem.   By Bertel Hansen and Knud Rahn  Published in 
Dansk Botanisk Arkiv 1969 Bd. 26.

This key has 172 cards for determining 411 families of Hutchinson 1959.

I saw this key while i was following a course in Angiosperm taxonomy.

On my  HP-48sx, which to my knowlege is the only hand-held computer with 
has suficient memmory to make such a program (ca. 50k), i coded in this key.
The program is slow, but it kan be used. It could be much faster if it was 
programed in Saturn asembly.



                            Christian Tange
                            Aarhus University
                            Biological institute, Dept. of Syst. Bot.


Article 803 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!utcsri!utgpu!richter
From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter)
Subject: Coptis teeta
Message-ID: <C0nM2G.3F6@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:56:40 GMT
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Has anyone heard of the Indian plant called "titha" (_Coptis teeta_)?  I am 
not sure whether it is an ayurvedic plant or not, but it apparently grows 
in the state of Arunchal Pradesh.  According to a government publication, 
exports of the root and seeds are "virtually banned," so it is likely to  
be a threatened species (although it is not on the CITES list). 
 
According to a recent Indian magazine article, the tribals of A.P. regard 
it as an "excellent" medicinal herb; but the article gives no clue as to 
what it is used for.  
 
There is a North American species _Coptis trifolia_ ("goldthread") which 
is has well known medicinal properties. 
 
 

-- 
Conrad Richter                     richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
Richters Herbs                     71550.3411@compuserve.com
Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada        Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641


Article 803 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!utcsri!utgpu!richter
From: richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (C. Richter)
Subject: Coptis teeta
Message-ID: <C0nM2G.3F6@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:56:40 GMT
Lines: 19

Has anyone heard of the Indian plant called "titha" (_Coptis teeta_)?  I am 
not sure whether it is an ayurvedic plant or not, but it apparently grows 
in the state of Arunchal Pradesh.  According to a government publication, 
exports of the root and seeds are "virtually banned," so it is likely to  
be a threatened species (although it is not on the CITES list). 
 
According to a recent Indian magazine article, the tribals of A.P. regard 
it as an "excellent" medicinal herb; but the article gives no clue as to 
what it is used for.  
 
There is a North American species _Coptis trifolia_ ("goldthread") which 
is has well known medicinal properties. 
 
 

-- 
Conrad Richter                     richter@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
Richters Herbs                     71550.3411@compuserve.com
Goodwood, ON L0C 1AO Canada        Tel 416-640-6677 / Fax 416-640-6641


Article 804 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!macgowan
From: macgowan@unixg.ubc.ca (Chris Macgowan)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: chemical composition of wood
Date: 11 Jan 1993 00:05:52 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <1iqdl0INNoq5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca


I'm doing research in radiation dosimetry, and we use wood to simulate
lung tissue. To accurately simulate the radiation dose using Monte
Carlo, I need the chemical composition of wood (balsa, cedar namely).
I assumed this would be easily available knowledge but I haven't been
able to find it. If you know the answer or where I can find it please
let me know. Thanks in advance.

					Chris Macgowan


Article 805 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!biomac1s.bio.purdue.edu!user
From: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Paul Furbacher)
Subject: Re: Botanical software
Message-ID: <pf-110193011954@biomac1s.bio.purdue.edu>
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News)
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References: <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:31:07 GMT
Lines: 46

In article <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>, 
  GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD) wrote:
> 
> Botanical software of possible use?
> 
> Just yesterday I was browsing through the electronic section of a dept.
> store, and noticed hand-held (calculator-sized) language translators,
> dictionaries, baseball fact compendia, etc. It would be fun to have
> a BOTANICAL KEY in such a format.
 
Not only fun but educational, too.

> You'd take this mini-computer into
> the field, punch in floral characteristics, and it would give you the
> Family, if not the very species. The writing has already been done in
> Book form (major floras of regions throughout the world). It would be
> a matter of converting the printed dichotomous keys to the computer
> format, AND correctly diagnosing floral morphology.
> 
> Has this already been done, or is the market too small?

It probably hasn't been done for hand-held computers, but 
if you work hard on convincing your favorite publishers to
look into putting the data onto CD or MD, then in a few
years, the hand-helds will have CD-ROMs or MDs in them and 
all of us who would like to know what we're looking at in 
the field, but can't remember enough from our field botany 
courses taken fifteen years ago, will be in heaven.
(Prof. W.H. Wagner, Jr. would be disappointed if he knew how
much I've forgotten over the years.  Well, I am too.  His 
field botany course was perhaps the most intense course I
ever took, and second in enjoyment behind the systematics
course he offered the previous semester.  Very regrettably, I've
forgotten most of the material from both courses.)

Some of the upcoming products from Sony and Apple (Newton) offer 
the promise of holding and handling such encyclopedic 
volumes of information.  Illustrations and photographs would be
an integral part of botanical keys offered in these formats, and
would make identification even more certain for even the novice.
Interactive machines would allow annotations, and even smarter ones
would log your earthly coordinates and link to national botanical
databases to log data on distribution and population sizes.  
And so on -- the possibilities are endless.

PF


Article 806 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!biosci!ASRR.ARSUSDA.GOV!jkirkbride
From: jkirkbride@ASRR.ARSUSDA.GOV ("JOSEPH H. KIRKBRIDE")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Documentation explaining IOPI
Message-ID: <9301111340.AA06729@net.bio.net>
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:32:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 679

From:	AS8250::WINS%"david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au" 22-DEC-1992 22:55:59.21
To:	JKIRKBRIDE
CC:	
Subj:	What is IOPI

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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au (David Green)
To: jkirkbride@asrr.arsusda.gov
Subject: What is IOPI


Scanned from Taxon 41(May1992): 390-392.
Content-Length: 11060


IOPI NEWS
==
=======

Edited by Herve M. Burdet

Conservatoire et Jardin Botaniques, Ville de Geneve,
Case Postale 60,CH-1292 Chambesy, Switzerland.


What is IOPI?  [the International Organization for Plant Information]
=============

This new organisation came into being on September 20th, 1991, at a
meeting at the Australian National Botanic Gardens, Canberra, hosted
by the Australian Biological Resources Study. Forty-nine botanists
from eleven countries participated. The genesis of the new
internation
al organisation lay in discussions arising from an initial
proposal by Kew to establish, with a consortium of major herbaria,
a computerized taxonomic database - the Species Plantarum Project
(SPP) - and those held at Delphi, under the auspices of TDWG, in
October 1990, to consider the establishment of a Global Plant Species
Information System (GPSIS).

At a subsequent meeting at Kew in November 1990 in connexion with
SPP, it became obvious that both proposals had a common interest in
establishing 
a world checklist of vascular plants as soon as possi-
ble. It was equally clear that this would involve a major,
co-operative, truly international effort and that the project would
be extremely expensive. An interim Council was established to
expedite the proposal. This met at Kew under the successive chair-
manships of Professor Prance (June 27th) and Mr Alex George (June
28th and 29th), Professor Lucas acting as Secretary, as agreed in
November. To quote from the minutes of the meeting:

"There 
was general agreement that a new organization which could
combine and replace SPP and GPSIS, as presently constituted, by a
single organization, would prevent duplication, possible
undesirable competition, and would greatly facilitate the success of
the project. A unified will is essential to make it work on an
international scale"

Mr. George, on behalf of the relevant Australian organizations, then
offered to host a meeting to consider this proposal in Canberra where
a meeting of TDWG - whose act
ivities would be particularly relevant
to aspects of the proposal - had already been arranged. There was a
very thorough and wide-ranging discussion at Canberra of the pros and
cons of the proposal and how it would impact on existing
institutional taxonomic activities; of how it would relate to other
ongoing projects, such as those of IAPT; of the kind of support it
might attract from taxonomic institutions and elsewhere and indeed,
of whether the proposal was a viable proposition. At the end of two

days full discussion there was overwhelming support for the proposal
to establish a new organization. A Constitution was agreed and
working arrangements proposed to achieve, as the first task, a
Checklist of the vascular plants of the world.

The Constitution of IOPI sets out succinctly the objectives of the
organization, namely:

1. to promote and prepare, as expeditiously as possible, a series of
   integrated, dispersed, computerized databases, summarizing the basic
   taxonomic information (b
earing in mind the basic requirements of
   freedom of taxonomic research and opinion), and biological and
   other attributes (in particular, information relating to their
   utilization and conservation) of all kinds of plants* in the world;

   * Plants to be interpreted as those organisms covered by the
     International Code of Botanical Nomenclature.

2. to document the data in such ways as shall make them most readily
   accesible to users of all kinds, in all regions, and in such formats

   as shall seem most expedient to the governing body of IOPI;

3. thereafter, to maintain the data in an up to date form and
   continue to render them accessible in accordance with (1) and (2)
   above.

To assist in gaining international recognition for IOPI, the
Constitution also includes establishing of an association with IAPT,
TDWG, CODATA, IUCN, UNEP and UNESCO, including their representation,
ex officio, on the Council of IOPI. To date, IAPT, TDWG, IUCN and
UNEP have agreed to such an ass
ociation, and the matter is under
consideration by CODATA and UNESCO. Preliminary recognition of IOPI
as an international scientific association or commission by IUBS has
been granted with a view to ratification of full recognition and
representation at their next general assembly in 1994.

Setting out objectives is the easiest part of the task, achieving
them will be more difficult for several reasons. Firstly, the
available expertise necessary is scattered all over the world and
many of the pract
itioners are already fully engaged on existing
taxonomic tasks. IOPI will have to depend upon the goodwill and
voluntary collaboration of many institutions, together with finding
the means (where essential) to provide additional assistance, whether
for basic taxonomic work or modifications of present practice, so
that existing and ongoing knowledge can contribute to the world
database. Moreover, for many regions and several taxonomic groups
even the most basic data are lacking or very limited. It wil
l be
important for IOPI to raise funding to assist such regions to develop
taxonomic work both for their own information as well as a
contribution to world knowledge.

It is important to realize that IOPI will act primarily as a trustee
of the knowledge in the proposed world database and to facilitate the
acquisition and availability of knowledge about plants and their
attributes as an international service. Lastly, but of immense
importance, IOPI will need to work through international
collaborat
ion and to ensure that such funding activities as it may
promote compete minimally, or not at all, with the fund-raising
efforts of other taxonomic institutions and individuals. Because the
objectives of IOPI are wider than the purely taxonomic, although in
the first instance that is the area of overriding importance, the
founders of IOPI believe that sources can be tapped which will meet
the non-taxonomic competitive criterion.

To implement this approach a number of actions were agreed. Firstly,

an international Foundation Council was established to get the
project started. A Council fully in accordance with the Constitution
is to be elected by postal ballot of members in 1992 to become
effective from the next plenary meeting of IOPI to be held in Xalapa,
Mexico, in Autumn 1992 (in association with a TDWG meeting).

Secondly, a World Plant Checklist Committee having a wide regional
representation was seen as a prime necessity. Dr. David Hunt of Kew
was asked to establish and lead it. This b
ody will co-ordinate and
promote the range of activities necessary to achieve a working
checklist in an initial target period of 5 years. Inter alia it will
have to organize commitments and contributions from different
participants and establish regional groups so that participants can
keep in touch both with each other and with the project as a whole.

Thirdly, the Checklist Committee will be supported by four
international Working Groups. One will develop a Taxonomic Resources
Network (TRN, chair
ed by Nancy Morin, St Louis) to assess what is
already available, identify regional and taxonomic gaps and provide
information to others in the project. A second will be concerned with
Dataset Definition and Standards (DDS, chaired by Frank Bisby,
Southampton), for work allied to that already being carried out by
TDWG. It is expected that this group should be able to provide a
minimum dataset with appropriate definitions of acceptable standards
early in 1992. The Information System Design group (ISD,
 chaired by
Catherine Zellweger, Geneva) will first examine the question of basic
transfer formats in current use, as advised by TRN in collaboration
with DDS. But its major task will be to develop an adequate and
effective system for the final Checklist so that it will be possible
to integrate other data, taxonomic and non-taxonomic, into it.
K. Beese (Brussels) has been asked to form an additional User
working group to look into what other kinds of data should be
incorporated into the taxonomic ch
ecklist and with what priority.

Lastly, the Products and Editing group (PE, chaired by Herve Burdet)
will be concerned with the form of the final products as well as the
editing en route.

As has already been said, IOPI will have to depend greatly on the
voluntary participation of institutions and individuals world-wide,
and most of the financing of basic taxonomic work will be that
available to each participant in the course of normal work.
However, if the project is to be truly developed and in
tegrated
internationally, then some central funding will have to be found to
cover the running costs of maintaining communications and the like,
as well as for assisting with travel when no other source is
available. A Finance working group (chaired by J. Scott Petersen,
US.D.A., Beltsville) has therefore been established both to seek
support and supporters for all financial aspects of the work. While
this group will, of course, actively seek general funds for central
activities, it will also try to
 respond to, and promote, the needs of
other groups within the project. For instance the Checklist Committee
will have to meet at least once before the next full meeting of IOPI and
ISD would like to hold a number of small workshops involving people
from different parts of the world.

Geneva has most generously offered to prepare, circulate, and meet
the cost of an IOPI Newsletter (to be edited by Herve M. Burdet) and
this should greatly aid communication.

However, until the first Newsletter is p
roduced, further detailed
information about IOPI can best be obtained from its Secretary, Alex
George, Australian Biological Resources Study, GPO Box 636, Canberra,
ACT 2601, Australia. He, or any member of the Foundation Council, can
provide information on how to become a Participating Centre or
Individual Member of IOPI.

[  electronic information about IOPI - including this report - is
   available on the network via anonymous ftp at the biodiversity
   server at the Australian National Universi
ty:

          life.anu.edu.au     /pub/biodiversity/iopi

   and at the taxacom server at Harvard University:

          huh.harvard.edu     /pub/standards/iopi

   It is also available throught the Harvard biodiversity gopher 
   server by:

          gopher huh.harvard.edu 70  
 
    - jrc  ]


The Foundation Council members are: Dr. A. Anton (Cordoba,
Vice-chairman), Prof. Dr. P. Baas (Leiden), Dr. K. Beese (E.C.,
Brussels), Dr. F. Bisby (Southampton), Dr. D. Geltman (St.
Petersbourg)
, A.  George (Canberra, Secretary), Dr. A. Giulietti (Sao
Paulo), Prof. W. Greuter (Berlin), Dr. P. Holmgren (New York), Prof.
K. Iwatsuki (Tokyo), Prof. B. Jonsell (Stockholm), Dr. E. Kennedy
(Biosis, Philadelphia), Prof. G. Lucas (Kew), Dr. P. Maas (Utrecht),
Prof P. Morat (Paris), Dr. N. Morin (St. Louis), Dr. L. Skog
(Washington), Prof. R.  Spichiger (Geneva), Prof. C. Stace
(Leicester), and Dr. D. Sutton (London).

[Sir John Burnett, Chairman, 13 Field House Drive, Oxford OX2 7NT, U.K.]
++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From:	AS8250::WINS%"david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au" 22-DEC-1992 23:10:37.48
To:	JKIRKBRIDE
CC:	
Subj:	IOPI - ASBS Newsletter Sept 1991

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Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au (David Green)
To: jkirkbride@asrr.arsusda.gov
Subject: IOPI - ASBS 
Newsletter Sept 1991


Scanned from Australian Systematic Botany Society Newsletter 68
(September 1991) 30--31.

International Organization for Plant Information
(formerly Species Plantarum Project /
Global Plant Species Information System)

The meeting at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew, in June (Newsletter 67:
33), recommended that a new structure be set up to integrate and
replace the "Species Plantarum Project" (SPP) and the "Global Plant
Species Information System" (GPSIS). The proposed name
 of the new
body is International Organization for Plant Information
(Organisation Internationale pour la Connaissance des Vegetaux).

Kew, one of the proponents of SPP, indicated its acceptance of the
new organization at the meeting. The proponent of GPSIS, the
Commission for Plant Taxonomic Databases (TDWG), is discussing the
proposal and will decide its position at a meeting on 18 September.

The activities of IOPI will be determined by a Council of not more
than 30 members, including represent
atives of IAPT, TDWG, CODATA,
UNEP and IUCN.  Members of Council will be selected initially to
represent taxonomists, user-groups, information technologists, and
others appropriate to aspects of the project.

The first project of IOPI will be a Vascular Plant Checklist of the
World.  A Checklist Committee was nominated to plan and produce the
Checklist within five years. It will be supported by several working
groups addressing such aspects as the organization of taxonomic
resources, the data set t
o be included, the design of the database
system, and editing.

A meeting of the Interim Council of IOPI will be held in Canberra on
19-20 September, immediately before the 7th Intemational TDWG
Workshop. At this meeting, the status of the SPP and GPSIS projects
will be discussed and, hopefully, a firm decision taken to proceed
with IOPI and the proposed Checklist.

On the assumption that the Canberra meeting will approve the
establishment of IOPI or something close to it, application has
already
 been made to IUBS for interim recogniton of the organization
as a Commission.

Alex George
Flora of Australia



For those of you who are unclear on the history of the various groups
involved in these activities, the following list may be helpful.

    SPP- the Species Plantarum Project. This was intended as a
    computer-based project to produce a new Species Plantarum; i.e. a
    descripdon of all of the plant species of the world, with keys,
    short descriptions, and distribution inform
ation, etc. It was
    proposed by a consortium of seven major botanical institudons:-
    Royal Botanic Gardens Kew, Missouri Botanical Garden, New York
    Botanical Garden, Museum National d'Histoire Naturelle,
    Rijksherbarium, Smithsonian Institution, and Conservatoire et
    Jardin Botaniques de la Ville de Geneve. It was launched at a
    meeting in Kew in November 1990, and was intended to take 50
    years to complete.

    GPSIS - Global Plant Species Information System. This was
    i
ntended as a computer-based project to produce a checklist of
    plant species of the world, including authorities, synonymy,
    classification, distribution, and bibliography. It was proposed
    by the IUBS Commission for Plant Taxonomic Databases (which also
    calls itself the Taxonomic Databases Working Group, or TDWG). It
    was launched at a meeting in Delphi, Greece, in October 1990, and
    was to be completed as fast as possible.

    CODATA - ICSU Committee on Data for Science and Tec
hnology.

    IUCN - International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural
    Resources. This is an independent body, founded in 1948, for
    promoting and supporting action related to the protection and
    sustainable use of living resources. Membership comprises
    governments, government agencies, international organizations,
    and private institutions.  Its six Commissions consist of more
    than 700 experts.

    UNEP - United Nations Environment Programme. A programme and
    or
ganization created by the United Nations Conference on the
    Human Environment in 1972, to provide guidelines for action by
    governments and international organizations designed to protect
    and improve the human environment and to remedy and prevent its
    impairment.

    IAPT - Internadonal Association for Plant Taxonomy. Founded in
    1950 to promote the development of plant taxonomy and to
    encourage international relations between taxonomists. Publishes
    Taxon and the Regnum Ve
getabile series.  Members can be
    individuals or institutes.

    IUBS - International Union of Biological Sciences. Founded in 1922
    to promote the study of biological sciences at the international
    level. International Botanical Congresses are held under the
    auspices of its Division of Botany. Members are international
    scientific associations and societies, as well as national
    academies of science, research councils, and science associations.
    IAPT is a member.

    ICSU
 - Intemadonal Council of Scientific Unions. Founded in 1919
    to encourage international scientific activity and to co-ordinate
    the activities of the international scientific unions. Members
    are international scientific unions, as well as national
    academies of science, research councils, and associations of
    instititions. IUBS is a member.

    --Eds
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.L:11i
.XT:1i
.X:1i
.XB:1i
.XJ:1i
From:  AS8250::
WINS%"jrc@anbg.gov.au"  7-JAN-1993 05:03:05.77
To:  JKIRKBRIDE
CC:  
Subj:  IOPI - University of Reading, Herbarium News 30

INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR PLANT INFORMATION (IOPI)
======================================================

[ extract from University of Reading, Plant Science Laboratories, Herbarium 
  News 30: 6, 14 Dec 1992 ] 

Dr Stephen Jury attended the recent meetings of IOPI in Mexico. Readers may be 
interested in, if not aware of developments in, this area of Plant Informati
on 
Systems. 

A meeting took place in October 1990 in Delphi sponsored by CODATA, TDWG 
(Taxonomic Databases Working Group) and the Commission of the European 
Community under the title of Designs for a Global Plant Information System 
(GPSIS).  The object is to obtain a computerized world check-list of plant 
names of vascular plants as soon as possible.  To this `backbone' other 
desirable information (e.g. geographical distribution) could be attached.  An 
international committee was set up, ch
aired by Sir John Burnett, to plan the 
way forward.  The updated proceedings of this Delphi GPSIS meeting will be 
published as Systematics Association special volume under the title Designs 
for a Global Plant Diversity Information System, edited by F.A. Bisby, R.J. 
Pankhurst & G.F. Russell. 

Another meeting was held shortly afterwards at Kew to prepare the ground for a 
`Species Plantarum Project' (SPP), basically a `Flora Europaea' of the world 
to be completed over a 50 year period. However, 
at the Kew meeting the GPSIS 
proposals were preferred and an international `Interim council'  was set up 
and asked to meet as soon as possible.  Unfortunately, this was not until 
27/29th June 1991 at Kew, and then not all members were able to attend. 

The Kew Interim Council authorized the setting up of a new body called the 
International Organization for Plant Information (IOPI), which was expected to 
replace both the GPSIS and SPP proposals, nominate a number of individuals to 
the Council o
f IOPI and some of its committees and working parties, and to 
agree a minimum dataset for the Checklist, as well as briefly indicating other 
kinds of datasets required.  It was agreed to meet in Canberra, Australia, 
19/20th September 1991, so that the members of TDWG attending their annual 
meeting could also attend IOPI meetings.  IOPI was, indeed, set up in Canberra 
and the four working groups of the Checklist committee have begun their work. 

In Xalapa good progress was, in fact, made in most
 areas.  The working group 
Taxonomic Resources Network, chaired by Nancy Morin of the Missouri Botanical 
Garden, has drawn up a draft list of family and geographical specialists to 
identify providers of data and has produced a questionnaire on datasets.  (A 
copy can be obtained from Dr S.L. Jury at Reading).  The "Data Definitions and 
Standards Group" was chaired by Dr Frank Bisby of Southampton and the 
"Information Systems Group" by Catharine Zellweger of Geneve.  The latter will 
establish an
 electronic communication service on Internet, available by 1 
December 1992.  The "Editorial and Products Group", chaired by Hervh Burdet of 
Genhve will publish the IOPI Newsletter and, once the communication network is 
in place, this will be available electronically. 

The Checklist Committee approved the following plan:

Phase 1 - November - December 1992.
P-L-T----T----T----2----+----3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7----+-YR| 
1.      Identify and approach database holders and taxono
mic specialists with 
  plan, and invite collaboration (TRN); 
2.      similarly establish regional centers and select regional advisors 
  (Checklist Committee); 
3.      complete minimal dataset (DDS/ISG);
4.      initiate work on communication network (ISG);
5.      prepare and distribute database questionnaire (TRN);
6.      prepare detailed technical plan (ISG).

Phase 2 - January - June 1993.
1.      selected samples of databases, involving selected families/genera 
  reviewed for: * assess
ment by DDS/ISG for problems of conformity and 
  assimilation * sample runs involving taxonomic specialists (CLC/TRN) results 
  available to donors and IOPI members; all involving regional advisors; 
2.      communication network established; all donor databases, regional nodes 
  and IOPI members can log on; work station at IOPI node (ISG); 
3.      database questionnaire turned into on-line database of databases (new 
  working group). 

Phase 3 - July - December 1993.
1.      assessment of pos
ition to date by IOPI, database donors, specialist 
  taxonomists; 
2.      IBC presentation in Tokyo;
3.      database directory published as hard copy;
4.      ongoing activities maintained; IOPI system tested.

Phase 4 - 1994.
1.      major work on integration begins; as data is processed and the IOPI 
  database develops, it will be available on network to collaborating centers 
  and individuals, but access by others will be regulated. 
2.      programme and problems of publication to be addr
essed by EPG and by 
  group concerned with the problems of ownership and acknowledgement. 

Phase 5 - 1995 through 1996
1.      work on major datasets continues;
2.      other databases incorporated;
3.      proposals for modes of publication to be circulated
4.      outstanding problems addressed.
L---T----T----T----2----+----3----+----4----+----5----+----6----+----7----+-YR| 

Phase 6 - 1997.
first `edition' of preliminary World Checklist of Vascular Plants (WCVP) 
available on communication
s network in electronic form and hardcopy. 

IOPI has, thus, got well underway and we look forward to the next progress 
report.  Readers are encouraged to support IOPI and join the organisation; 
contact Alex George, Australian Biological Resources Study, Australian 
National Parks & Wildlife Service, GPO Box 636, Canberra, Australian Capital 
Territory 2601. 

================================================================================
Jury, Stephen L. SBSJURY@READING.AC.UK (Internet) Herb. C
urator (RNG) 
                 Department of Botany, Univ. of Reading, Whiteknights, Reading,
                 RG6 2AS, United Kingdom  Ph (44) 734318169  FAX (44) 734753676
================================================================================
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From:	AS8250::WINS%"david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au" 22-DEC-1992 23:16:49.01
To:	JKIRKBRIDE
CC:	
Subj:	Introduction to IOPI

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Comment:  IOPI project discussion list.
Originator: iopi@life.anu.edu.au
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er@cjb.unige.ch
Reply-To: david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au (David Green)
Sender: iopi@life.anu.edu.au
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
From: david@rsbs13.anu.edu.au (David Green)
To: jkirkbride@asrr.arsusda.gov
Subject: Introduction to IOPI


       INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR PLANT INFORMATION (IOPI)

Today, despite the widespread utilization and exploitation of plant
species, growing concerns about loss of biodiversity and the urgent need
for conservation of genetic reso
urces, there is no modern unified
conspectus of the plant species of the world, their distribution and
attributes. The problem has been addressed in part by the Species
Plantarum Project and the Global Plant Species Information System groups.
IOPI has been established to integrate and extend the work of these
groups, and to replace them.

IOPI's objective will be to prepare such a conspectus as expeditiously as
possible through the establishment of a series of integrated, dispersed,
computerised da
tabases which will summarize the basic taxonomic
information, biological attributes and potential for utilization of all
species, in the first instance, of all the vascular plants of the world;
to document the data, and to make them accessible in a variety of ways
for the benefit of a diversity of users. This is a major undertaking but
an essential, minimal, first step will be to provide, as a fundamental
framework, a World Vascular Plant Checklist. Therafter, it will be
possible to integrate further
 databases concerned with other attributes,
taxonomic, biological, ecological, useful - whether to agriculture,
forestry, horticulture, medicine, biotechnology or in other ways - or of
relevance to conservation, around this Checklist.

This checklist project depends upon the voluntary collaboration of
numerous botanical institutions and individuals worldwide. The urgent
need for a checklist means that it should be completed as quickly as
possible, and a timescale of 5-10 years has been mooted.

To
 achieve its objectives, IOPI has established a Checklist Committee, 
an Information Systems Committee and a number of Working Groups. It is 
considered that the sharing of information and experience in planning 
and operating networks will benefit both IOPI and other groups concerned 
with biodiversity.

For further information regarding IOPI, contact ...

name        Mr. Alex George
            IOPI Secretary
address     Australian Biological Resources Study
            GPO Box 636
           
 Canberra A.C.T. 2601
            AUSTRALIA

To obtain electronic information about IOPI use anonymous ftp to ...

site         life.anu.edu.au
directory    /pub/biodiversity/iopi

or:

site:        huh.harvard.edu
directory    /pub/standards/iopi

or through the Harvard biodiversity gopher 

             gopher huh.harvard.edu 70  

The files on the ANU ftp server will be available on gopher early in 
the new year.

__________________________________________________________

        
    IOPI ELECTRONIC NEWS SERVICE
            ============================

IOPI maintains a regular news service about its activities for members 
and anyone else interested. 

To register for electronic news about IOPI contact ...
 
name        Dr David Geoffrey Green
email       david.green@anu.edu.au
phone       61-6-249-2490 / 249-5031 / 249-5111 (switch)
fax         61-6-249-4437
address     Bioinformatics Facility
            Research School of Biological Science
            Australian N
ational University
            GPO Box 475  Canberra 2601 AUSTRALIA

To submit items of news relevant to IOPI, contact ... 

name        Catherine Zellweger
            Chairperson, IOPI Information Systems Committee
email       zellweger@cjb.unige.ch
phone       41 22 732 69 69
fax         41 22 738 45 97
address     Conservatoire et Jardin botaniques
            C.P. 60
            CH-1292 Chambisy
            SWITZERLAND


Article 807 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Calif. Oak restoration
Message-ID: <01GTDZIC8AGK8WWJDU@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:49:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 25

Major native Oak restoration projects have succeeded for the Nature
Conservancy in California due to the work of one of their Preserve
Managers and Field Researchers, Dr. Tom Griggs. 

By trying different planting techniques, and carefully monitoring the
results over several years, Griggs has achieved astounding establishment
rates for several native Oaks. In general these have come from focusing
on the ROOT system development. He has found that by focusing on root
system management, he is able to insure a vigorous Oak tree. Roots of 
each species have their characteristic range of responses to soil
properties, irrigation regime, weed competition, and herbivory.

Griggs can be contacted by snail mail:  Dr. Tom Griggs
                                        1658 Inghram Rd.
                                        Corning CA  96021


hope this helps. Griggs is a practicing plant ecologist. His data are 
generated in the harsh and variable reality of open California, not
from the greenhouse or nursery.

                                 George Ellmore
                                 Biology Dept.
                                 Tufts University
                                 Medford, MA


Article 805 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!biomac1s.bio.purdue.edu!user
From: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Paul Furbacher)
Subject: Re: Botanical software
Message-ID: <pf-110193011954@biomac1s.bio.purdue.edu>
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News)
Organization: Purdue University
References: <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:31:07 GMT
Lines: 46

In article <01GT4Q1VZF4G8X2ALE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>, 
  GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD) wrote:
> 
> Botanical software of possible use?
> 
> Just yesterday I was browsing through the electronic section of a dept.
> store, and noticed hand-held (calculator-sized) language translators,
> dictionaries, baseball fact compendia, etc. It would be fun to have
> a BOTANICAL KEY in such a format.
 
Not only fun but educational, too.

> You'd take this mini-computer into
> the field, punch in floral characteristics, and it would give you the
> Family, if not the very species. The writing has already been done in
> Book form (major floras of regions throughout the world). It would be
> a matter of converting the printed dichotomous keys to the computer
> format, AND correctly diagnosing floral morphology.
> 
> Has this already been done, or is the market too small?

It probably hasn't been done for hand-held computers, but 
if you work hard on convincing your favorite publishers to
look into putting the data onto CD or MD, then in a few
years, the hand-helds will have CD-ROMs or MDs in them and 
all of us who would like to know what we're looking at in 
the field, but can't remember enough from our field botany 
courses taken fifteen years ago, will be in heaven.
(Prof. W.H. Wagner, Jr. would be disappointed if he knew how
much I've forgotten over the years.  Well, I am too.  His 
field botany course was perhaps the most intense course I
ever took, and second in enjoyment behind the systematics
course he offered the previous semester.  Very regrettably, I've
forgotten most of the material from both courses.)

Some of the upcoming products from Sony and Apple (Newton) offer 
the promise of holding and handling such encyclopedic 
volumes of information.  Illustrations and photographs would be
an integral part of botanical keys offered in these formats, and
would make identification even more certain for even the novice.
Interactive machines would allow annotations, and even smarter ones
would log your earthly coordinates and link to national botanical
databases to log data on distribution and population sizes.  
And so on -- the possibilities are endless.

PF


Article 807 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Calif. Oak restoration
Message-ID: <01GTDZIC8AGK8WWJDU@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:49:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 25

Major native Oak restoration projects have succeeded for the Nature
Conservancy in California due to the work of one of their Preserve
Managers and Field Researchers, Dr. Tom Griggs. 

By trying different planting techniques, and carefully monitoring the
results over several years, Griggs has achieved astounding establishment
rates for several native Oaks. In general these have come from focusing
on the ROOT system development. He has found that by focusing on root
system management, he is able to insure a vigorous Oak tree. Roots of 
each species have their characteristic range of responses to soil
properties, irrigation regime, weed competition, and herbivory.

Griggs can be contacted by snail mail:  Dr. Tom Griggs
                                        1658 Inghram Rd.
                                        Corning CA  96021


hope this helps. Griggs is a practicing plant ecologist. His data are 
generated in the harsh and variable reality of open California, not
from the greenhouse or nursery.

                                 George Ellmore
                                 Biology Dept.
                                 Tufts University
                                 Medford, MA


Article 810 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!UGG00180
From: UGG00180@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Sandy)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: tyrosine ammonia lyase
Message-ID: <9301121646.AA00597@net.bio.net>
Date: 12 Jan 93 15:54:15 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 13

I am quickly becoming a desperate PhD student, hoping to graduate before
the end of the century. If anyone out there is sympathetic to my cause and
has either antibodies or clones for tyrosine ammonia lyase (I am working with
wheat although I am willing to test any system) I would be forever indebted
to you for helping me. Any information on obtaining antibodies or clones
or even some sequence data for making PCR primers would be helpful at this time
. I am studying phenylpropanoid metabolism in virus infected wheat.  If you
have any information or require more details please contact me at:
Sandy Kofalvi              e-mail: ugg00180@vm.uoguelph.ca
Dept. of Botany            fax:    (519)-767-1991
U. of Guelph
Guelph, ON
Canada


Article 811 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!UGG00180
From: UGG00180@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Sandy)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: cinnamyl alcohol dehydrogenase
Message-ID: <9301121646.AA00615@net.bio.net>
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:05:10 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 12

I have been studying cinnamyl alcohol dehydrogenase activity in virus
infected wheat plants and would like to test for mRNA activity of this
enzyme. I have tested a tobacco clone against my wheat RNA but without
success even under conditions of very low stringency. Does anyone have
(or know of) a clone for CAD made from a monocot? Even some sequence data
which could be used to make PCR primers would be very helpful. Please
send any information to:
Sandy Kofalvi                   e-mail: ugg00180@vm.uoguelph.ca
Dept. of Botany                 fax:    519-767-1991
U of Guelph
Guelph, ON
Canada                                       Thanks a million


Article 813 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Bonsai
Message-ID: <01GTH90AGP9C8WWX22@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 13 Jan 93 21:53:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 5

Whatever supplies you decide to get, if you take Bonsai seriously,
you MUST get a timed mister. Something that makes those plants think
they're growing in a maritime fog. Otherwise, shoots will eventually
(within 2 years) dry up, and you'll find yourself spray-painting them
green to keep them life-like.


Article 814 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!uunet!biosci!BCM.TMC.EDU!gvachon
From: gvachon@BCM.TMC.EDU (Gilles Vachon)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Cell type specification
Message-ID: <9301132352.AA21727@bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: 13 Jan 93 23:52:18 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 5

Hi, I am new in the Arabidopsis (and plant) world. 
Does anybody know some labs or key references about cell type
specification in plants?
Thanks



Article 815 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Plant cell lineages
Message-ID: <01GTI4OIUHCW8WXEFG@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 14 Jan 93 13:00:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 3

Start with the most recent edition of Steeves and Sussex. Patterns in Plant
Development. Prentice-Hall  (a book). For molecular studies, look for
reviews and papers by Chua at the Rockefeller Institute.


Article 816 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!dec5.ulb.ac.be!tsornas
From: tsornas@dec5.ulb.ac.be (Thierry Sornasse)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Seed germination on artificial Med
Message-ID: <1069@rc1.vub.ac.be>
Date: 14 Jan 93 12:09:37 GMT
Sender: news@rc1.vub.ac.be
Organization: Free University Brussels  - Belgium -  Department of Molecular Biology
Lines: 9

Hi networkers,

As an immunologist, I am naive in plant biology. I will be pleased to know if there is an artificial medium
(Gel substrat) specialy created to allow seed's germination ? If such a medium exists, would it be possible
to send me the composition of it.

Thank you

Thierry Sornasse


Article 817 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Seed germination on artificial Med
Date: 14 Jan 1993 17:45:34 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 16
Sender: tnb1@cornell.edu (Verified)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1j48ruINNok@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
References: <1069@rc1.vub.ac.be>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.236.4.94
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXDate: Thu, 14 Jan 93 12:49:41 GMT

In article <1069@rc1.vub.ac.be> Thierry Sornasse, tsornas@dec5.ulb.ac.be
writes:
>As an immunologist, I am naive in plant biology. I will be pleased to
know if 
>there is an artificial medium
>(Gel substrat) specialy created to allow seed's germination ? If such a
medium 
>exists, would it be possible to send me the composition of it.

For many seeds you will find 2-4% agar in tap water to be fine (if you
really need a gel).  For a solid medium, Whatman's No. 1 filter paper
works fine.  There are also specialized papers, but I assume you have
filter paper around.   
What species are you interested in?  The germination conditions are very
specific to the species, so it would be hard to give a more precise
answer without knowing.


Article 818 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Seed germination on artificial Med
Message-ID: <1993Jan14.180218.14983@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jan 93 18:01:13 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 26
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <93114164423.MIN-LREAa00326.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: Hi networkers,
: 
: As an immunologist, I am naive in plant biology. I will be pleased to know if there is an artificial medium
: (Gel substrat) specialy created to allow seed's germination ? If such a medium exists, would it be possible
: to send me the composition of it.

Seed germination tests are nornally conducted using moist filter paper.

Seeds that are germinated for individual planting are often 'pricked'
out into 'rock-wool' cubes or similar inert substrates so that the
fragile root hairs on the emerging radicle are not damaged by handling
the germinated seeds directly when they are planted.

When many seeds have to be planted it is common to use a starch-based
'gel' similar in composition to wallpaper paste.  The mixture of paste
and germinated seedlings can then be squeezed gently through a tube to
drill sow a row of plants.  The paste serves to protect the germinating
seeds during the initial stages of development.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 819 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!BOTSALT
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: kinetic analysis of antiport data
Message-ID: <9301141912.AA28913@net.bio.net>
Date: 14 Jan 93 19:14:22 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 45


 I have been working on a Cd/H antiport at the tonoplast of oat
roots and I have some kinetic data which I am not sure how to
interpret, could anybody help?

I am working with isolated tonoplast vesicles which I load with
H using the V-type ATPase. I measure the initial rate of H
accumulation using absorbance decrease at 490nm of acridine
orange. The outward movement of H from the vesicles is then
coupled to Cd inward movement (measured directly using 109Cd).

The data I am having problems with is the initial rate of H
accumulation at different [ATP] AND different [Cd]. What kinetic
parameters if any can I obtain from this data.

If I plot this data as a v vs S or Eadie Hoftsee I get what
appears to be competative inhibition of H accumulation by Cd
(due to antiport activity, at the [Cd] used Cd has no effect of
ATPase directly), is the Ki for Cd then equivalent to the Km for
Cd transport (Km for Cd transport 5 micromolar measured directly
using 109Cd and Ki for Cd approx. 10 micromolar).

Could I view this as a dual substrate system, with ATP and Cd
being the substrates and H accumulation the product? Is there
some plot which would then allow me to obtain a Km for both ATP
and Cd?

I have not seen anybody try to analyses this type of antiport
data before.



David Salt

Botany Department

University of Guelph

Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca






Article 820 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba sci.bio:7485 sci.engr.biomed:531 bionet.general:3378 bionet.plants:820 sci.bio.technology:443
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!pyramid.COM!dinesh
From: dinesh@pyramid.COM (Dinesh Jalisatgi)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.engr.biomed,sfnet.tiede.bio,bionet.general,bionet.plants,sci.bio.technology
Subject: Looking for a Post Doctarate Position in Biology or related field.
Message-ID: <1j514rINNcrg@gossip.pyramid.com>
Date: 15 Jan 93 00:39:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View, California
Lines: 44
NNTP-Posting-Host: shadow.eng.pyramid.com

Hi,

 I am sorry if this post does not belong to the group. My brother has just

 finished his Ph.D in Organic Chemistry and is interested in coming to any

 of the schools for his Post Doctarate. If anybody knows of any position

 open in his or her department/Uinv, can you please email me the details.



 A brief description of his field of study is as follows :

 Studied cyanoethylation and related reactions, using polyphosphoric acid as

 reagent for the synthesis of heterocyclic compounds such as

 hexahydrobenzoxanthones, hexahydroacridones, substituted

 octahydronaphthopyrones, substituted quinoles and pyranobenzopyrones.

 Also worked on 18 Indian medicinal plant species for their anti-tumour

 activity (P388 lymphocytic leukamia), of which 3 species showed good

 anti-tumour activity at prelimnary stages, and four compunds were isolated

 and the structures were determined on the basis of chemical and spectral

 analysis.

 His school for Masters was Intitute of Science.

 His school for Ph.D was Ruparel College , Bombay University.


 Thanks.

               -d----------         Dinesh S. Jalisatgi.
              --ddd--------         Pyramid Technology Corporation
            ----dddddd-----
          ------ddddddd----         off : (408)-428-7378.
        --------ddddddddd--         email: dinesh@pyramid.com


Article 821 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!vm.univie.ac.at!A8471DAB
From: A8471DAB@vm.univie.ac.at (Dr. Ch. Wawrosch/Prof.Dr. B. Kopp)
Subject: Passiflora
Message-ID: <1993Jan15.163006.8169@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
Sender: news@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at (News System - Vienna University)
Nntp-Posting-Host: helios.edvz.univie.ac.at
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 16:25:22 GMT
Lines: 11

Hi

We're interested in getting contact with anyone who is familiar

with Passiflora sp. (botany, chemistry etc. etc.).

If you're interested, please e-mail us!


Chris (a8471dab@helios.edvz.univie.ac.at)



Article 822 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Rockwool
Message-ID: <1993Jan16.043741.1031909@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 16 Jan 93 04:37:41 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 7

I started tomatoes in 2X2 rockwool cubes.  After two days they
germinated and I have to start transplanting.  I was going to put them
into 4X4 cubes, but, do to cost am seeking other alternatives.  Should I
go straight to slabs?  I don't want to transplant again.  Or should I go
to the 4X4s and put them on slabs.  Any info. is appreciated.  As well
as, any results you have had in growing this way. Thanks in advance.
 E-Mail me :  mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu


Article 823 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!browns
From: browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown)
Subject: Brassica genomic library
Message-ID: <C12FK4.LCs@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:00:04 GMT
Lines: 14


I need a _Brassica napus_ (canola) genomic library in a lambda vector
such as EMBL4.  Any suggestions as to where I can get one quickly and
cheaply would be extremely welcome.

	Thanks  -Stu



-- 
Stuart M. Brown                             If you can remain cool when all 
U. of Manitoba, Dept. Plant Science         Around you are in panic,
Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANADA
browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca            Then you surely misunderstand the situation


Article 824 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Rockwool cont.
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.203828.113207@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 93 20:38:28 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 17

In response to A.J. Travis's response I add:

I have decided to drop the 2X2s into 4X4s- they already have wholes in
them to accomadate.  I will probably then go to slabs, but am uncertain
at this time.  I would much rather grow aeroponically or use the NFT
technique because no medium is required.  Can you tell me more about the
NFT process.  It's prices, etc.  I am a practicer of rockwool and grow
rocks, but, am seeking alternatives due to problems with disposal of
rockwool and the great expense.  I have seen some tube-like Aeroponic modules,
for a high price, and might be interested in investing in those.  They
are made by General Hydroponics in Corte Madera, California.  They call
them the AeroFlo II systems and run for $499.00 (w/ 24 growing sites)
and $699.00 (w/ 40 growing sites).  Any information about these systems
is extremely appreciated.  I am looking for info. from Ein Gedi, Israel,
where this system was developed.  Thanks in advance.

					mffowler@flute.calpoly.edu


Article 824 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Rockwool cont.
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.203828.113207@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 93 20:38:28 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 17

In response to A.J. Travis's response I add:

I have decided to drop the 2X2s into 4X4s- they already have wholes in
them to accomadate.  I will probably then go to slabs, but am uncertain
at this time.  I would much rather grow aeroponically or use the NFT
technique because no medium is required.  Can you tell me more about the
NFT process.  It's prices, etc.  I am a practicer of rockwool and grow
rocks, but, am seeking alternatives due to problems with disposal of
rockwool and the great expense.  I have seen some tube-like Aeroponic modules,
for a high price, and might be interested in investing in those.  They
are made by General Hydroponics in Corte Madera, California.  They call
them the AeroFlo II systems and run for $499.00 (w/ 24 growing sites)
and $699.00 (w/ 40 growing sites).  Any information about these systems
is extremely appreciated.  I am looking for info. from Ein Gedi, Israel,
where this system was developed.  Thanks in advance.

					mffowler@flute.calpoly.edu


Article 825 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!ucla-mic!unixg.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!spang.Camosun.BC.CA!freenet.victoria.bc.ca!ua020


From: ua020@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Toby Sinats)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Methanol and plant growth
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.041029.6831@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
Date: 18 Jan 93 04:10:29 GMT
Sender: news@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Network News)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.victoria.bc.ca



Does anyone have any information about the November 3/92
article in the New York Times, Increasing Plants Yields With Sun and
Diluted Methanol? The implications are enormous, yet I have not
seen other mentions of this study.
Thanks 
Toby Sinats
 
-- 


Article 826 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!jarthur.claremont.edu!purves
From: purves@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Purves)
Subject: Re: Methanol and plant growth
Message-ID: <1993Jan19.085148.20769@muddcs.claremont.edu>
Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
References: <1993Jan18.041029.6831@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 08:51:48 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <1993Jan18.041029.6831@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> ua020@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Toby Sinats) writes:
>
>Does anyone have any information about the November 3/92
>article in the New York Times, Increasing Plants Yields With Sun and
>Diluted Methanol? The implications are enormous, yet I have not
>seen other mentions of this study.

See: Nonomura, A.M. and A.A. Benson, 1992.  "The path of carbon in
photosynthesis: Improved crop yields with methanol." Proc Natl Acad
Sci (US) 89: 9794-9798.

William K. Purves
Department of Biology
Harvey Mudd College
Claremont, CA 91711



Article 827 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Fusicoccin sources?
Message-ID: <1993Jan19.140748.9986@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 93 14:07:48 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 4

Anybody know another source for fusicoccin besides Sigma and ICN?
(Ah, the joys of backorder...)

Kay Klier   Biology Dept  UNI    klier@iscsvax.uni.edu


Article 815 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Plant cell lineages
Message-ID: <01GTI4OIUHCW8WXEFG@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 14 Jan 93 13:00:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 3

Start with the most recent edition of Steeves and Sussex. Patterns in Plant
Development. Prentice-Hall  (a book). For molecular studies, look for
reviews and papers by Chua at the Rockefeller Institute.


Article 814 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!caen!uunet!biosci!BCM.TMC.EDU!gvachon
From: gvachon@BCM.TMC.EDU (Gilles Vachon)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Cell type specification
Message-ID: <9301132352.AA21727@bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: 13 Jan 93 23:52:18 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 5

Hi, I am new in the Arabidopsis (and plant) world. 
Does anybody know some labs or key references about cell type
specification in plants?
Thanks



Article 816 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!daresbury!bioftp.unibas.ch!rc1!dec5.ulb.ac.be!tsornas
From: tsornas@dec5.ulb.ac.be (Thierry Sornasse)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Seed germination on artificial Med
Message-ID: <1069@rc1.vub.ac.be>
Date: 14 Jan 93 12:09:37 GMT
Sender: news@rc1.vub.ac.be
Organization: Free University Brussels  - Belgium -  Department of Molecular Biology
Lines: 9

Hi networkers,

As an immunologist, I am naive in plant biology. I will be pleased to know if there is an artificial medium
(Gel substrat) specialy created to allow seed's germination ? If such a medium exists, would it be possible
to send me the composition of it.

Thank you

Thierry Sornasse


Article 819 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uunet!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!BOTSALT
From: BOTSALT@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (david salt)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: kinetic analysis of antiport data
Message-ID: <9301141912.AA28913@net.bio.net>
Date: 14 Jan 93 19:14:22 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 45


 I have been working on a Cd/H antiport at the tonoplast of oat
roots and I have some kinetic data which I am not sure how to
interpret, could anybody help?

I am working with isolated tonoplast vesicles which I load with
H using the V-type ATPase. I measure the initial rate of H
accumulation using absorbance decrease at 490nm of acridine
orange. The outward movement of H from the vesicles is then
coupled to Cd inward movement (measured directly using 109Cd).

The data I am having problems with is the initial rate of H
accumulation at different [ATP] AND different [Cd]. What kinetic
parameters if any can I obtain from this data.

If I plot this data as a v vs S or Eadie Hoftsee I get what
appears to be competative inhibition of H accumulation by Cd
(due to antiport activity, at the [Cd] used Cd has no effect of
ATPase directly), is the Ki for Cd then equivalent to the Km for
Cd transport (Km for Cd transport 5 micromolar measured directly
using 109Cd and Ki for Cd approx. 10 micromolar).

Could I view this as a dual substrate system, with ATP and Cd
being the substrates and H accumulation the product? Is there
some plot which would then allow me to obtain a Km for both ATP
and Cd?

I have not seen anybody try to analyses this type of antiport
data before.



David Salt

Botany Department

University of Guelph

Guelph, Ontario, Canada

Botsalt@vm.uoguelph.ca






Article 821 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!vm.univie.ac.at!A8471DAB
From: A8471DAB@vm.univie.ac.at (Dr. Ch. Wawrosch/Prof.Dr. B. Kopp)
Subject: Passiflora
Message-ID: <1993Jan15.163006.8169@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
Sender: news@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at (News System - Vienna University)
Nntp-Posting-Host: helios.edvz.univie.ac.at
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 16:25:22 GMT
Lines: 11

Hi

We're interested in getting contact with anyone who is familiar

with Passiflora sp. (botany, chemistry etc. etc.).

If you're interested, please e-mail us!


Chris (a8471dab@helios.edvz.univie.ac.at)



Article 822 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Rockwool
Message-ID: <1993Jan16.043741.1031909@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 16 Jan 93 04:37:41 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 7

I started tomatoes in 2X2 rockwool cubes.  After two days they
germinated and I have to start transplanting.  I was going to put them
into 4X4 cubes, but, do to cost am seeking other alternatives.  Should I
go straight to slabs?  I don't want to transplant again.  Or should I go
to the 4X4s and put them on slabs.  Any info. is appreciated.  As well
as, any results you have had in growing this way. Thanks in advance.
 E-Mail me :  mffowler@nike.calpoly.edu


Article 823 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!browns
From: browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Stuart Brown)
Subject: Brassica genomic library
Message-ID: <C12FK4.LCs@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 20:00:04 GMT
Lines: 14


I need a _Brassica napus_ (canola) genomic library in a lambda vector
such as EMBL4.  Any suggestions as to where I can get one quickly and
cheaply would be extremely welcome.

	Thanks  -Stu



-- 
Stuart M. Brown                             If you can remain cool when all 
U. of Manitoba, Dept. Plant Science         Around you are in panic,
Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANADA
browns@ccu.umanitoba.ca            Then you surely misunderstand the situation


Article 824 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!mffowler
From: mffowler@zeus.calpoly.edu (Michael Francis Fowler)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Rockwool cont.
Message-ID: <1993Jan18.203828.113207@zeus.calpoly.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 93 20:38:28 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 17

In response to A.J. Travis's response I add:

I have decided to drop the 2X2s into 4X4s- they already have wholes in
them to accomadate.  I will probably then go to slabs, but am uncertain
at this time.  I would much rather grow aeroponically or use the NFT
technique because no medium is required.  Can you tell me more about the
NFT process.  It's prices, etc.  I am a practicer of rockwool and grow
rocks, but, am seeking alternatives due to problems with disposal of
rockwool and the great expense.  I have seen some tube-like Aeroponic modules,
for a high price, and might be interested in investing in those.  They
are made by General Hydroponics in Corte Madera, California.  They call
them the AeroFlo II systems and run for $499.00 (w/ 24 growing sites)
and $699.00 (w/ 40 growing sites).  Any information about these systems
is extremely appreciated.  I am looking for info. from Ein Gedi, Israel,
where this system was developed.  Thanks in advance.

					mffowler@flute.calpoly.edu


Article 828 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!CATS.UCSC.EDU!mateo
From: mateo@CATS.UCSC.EDU (William J Rutherford)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Arctostaphyllos pollination?
Summary: Any information or references regarding species which pollinatE
Message-ID: <1j8diiINN635@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Date: 16 Jan 93 07:30:26 GMT
Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
Lines: 10

Arctostaphyllos species and or which act as nectar
robbers on any Arctostaphyllos sps. would be welcome.
Keywords: Arctostaphyllos, nectar robbery, pollination.
     We are doing a study on an endangered
Arctostaphyllos species here in Santa Cruz county and if
anyone has info. or references in regards to pollinators
and or nectar robbers or any info espcially regarding
effect of nectar robbery on seed set rates would be
greatly appreciated.
Info can be sent to mateo@cats.ucsc.edu


Article 829 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!UGF00005
From: UGF00005@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Yuri Melekhovets)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <9301210007.AA26650@net.bio.net>
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:05:13 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 9

Dear Sir,

My name Yuri Melekhovets, Ph.D.
I am study structure and evolution of
yeast and plant rRNA genes.
Please, give me the information about
discussions in plant biology.

Sincerely, Yuri.


Article 830 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!torn!csd.unb.ca!UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA
From: T00X <T00X@UNB.CA>
Subject: tissue printing
Message-ID: <21JAN93.11764171.0210@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA>
Lines: 11
Sender: usenet@UNB.CA
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:53:33 GMT

Can anyone enlighten me on the technique of tissue printing
in terms of being a tool for the study of anatomy,
histochemistry and gene expression? What is it? What does it
do? Where and when would you use it?

Please e-mail me. Thank you.

Monna Yip
University of New Brunswick, N.B., Canada
t00x@unb.ca



Article 831 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
From: stovin@mackeson.demon.co.uk (Stovin Hayter)
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!demon!mackeson.demon.co.uk!stovin
Subject: Transgenic plant projects
Distribution: world
Organization: tK
Reply-To: stovin@mackeson.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Lines: 23
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:20:43 +0000
Message-ID: <727658443snz@mackeson.demon.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

This is a reply to Toby Murcott, who asked a week or so ago for info about
the use of transgenic technology to create new plants. Horticulture Week
magazine, of which I am the editor, recently published an article about a
company called David Austin Roses which has commissioned research from a UK
university (I forget which since I don't have it in front of me) to create new,
commercially interesting rose varieties.
	And next week (Jan 29) we will publish an article about a company 
called Southern Glasshouse Crops Ltd, a big chrysanthemum cut flower producer,
which has been bought out by the Japanese brewing company Kirin for the 
express purpose of combining Kirin's biotechnology expertise with Southern
Glasshouse's plant breeding knowledge. Interesting things should come of this.
	If you want to know more, I can e-mail you the text of both articles.
They are a bit long to include here. I can even let you have phone numbers for 
the companies, if you're interested.
	More tenuously, I read somewhere some time ago, New Scientist I think, 
about an Australian company (I think) which has set out to create a black rose
(something of a bizarre holy grail for a lot of rose breeders, for some reason)
using transgenic technology.
	I for one would be very intersted in seeing  a summary of whatever you
manage to get out of this investigation. Good luck

Stovin Hayter
stovin@mackeson.demon.co.uk


Article 836 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!COKelly
From: COKelly@massey.ac.nz (C.J. O'Kelly)
Subject: Taxonomists: charging into oblivion (Re: BEN 48)
Message-ID: <1993Jan25.000208.15251@massey.ac.nz>
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Keywords: taxonomy, user pays
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 00:02:08 GMT
Lines: 30


Re: Charging fees for taxonomic services.

Dammit be careful out there!!!

Some years ago, the Botany Division of New Zealand's Division of
Scientific and Industrial Research (DSIR) came to a similar conclusion,
that the day of free taxonomic IDs was at an end.  Hence they began
charging.

From that day these guys were dead.  Identifications made for clients
dropped from several per day to a few per month.  Didn't matter what the
fee was, the clients didn't come back.  Didn't take the administrators
more than a few clicks on their calculators to discover that the users
were not paying for the service and were not going to.  Within two
years, Botany Division was dead, with most of its staff in taxonomy gone
or going (I think the herbarium curator is all that remains).  The New
Zealand Government refuses to fund taxonomy - there is the occasional
murmuring from a scientific review, which Government tosses a few
platitudes over in the way of last rites and then ignores.  And no New
Zealand University teaches taxonomy.  Just as well given the caliber of
the students who fool themselves into thinking they're learning it.

Get real.  Underpayment is better than no payment.  And it may mean that
there are a few individuals left to pass on their expertise when, in
thirty years, folk finally recognize what they've done by killing off
the field that answers the first question of biology ("What is it?").

Charley O'Kelly
Mad Phycologist/Protistologist


Article 837 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba rec.gardens:13115 bionet.plants:837
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!murdoch!usenet
From: abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman)
Subject: Seed germination for tropical plants
Message-ID: <1993Jan25.141952.1094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:19:52 GMT
Lines: 14

I recently acquired some tropical seeds (dwarf banana, bird of paradise,
passion flower) and need some advice on how to get them started.  The problem 
is that they require germination tempereatures between 80 - 90 degrees.

How can I provide adequate temperatures and humidity etc. in my cold apartment?
I figure I could make some sort of mini greenhouse with an aquarium, but I don't
know the best way to keep the temperature up.

Thanks,

Andrew

abl9y@virginia.edu



Article 838 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba rec.gardens:13128 bionet.plants:838
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!ns1.nodak.edu!plains.NoDak.edu!nanders
From: nanders@plains.NoDak.edu (Noel Anderson)
Subject: Re: Seed germination for tropical plants
Sender: usenet@ns1.nodak.edu (News login)
Message-ID: <C1F859.J3p@ns1.nodak.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:48:44 GMT
Distribution: na
References: <1993Jan25.141952.1094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Nntp-Posting-Host: plains.nodak.edu
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network
Lines: 25

In article <1993Jan25.141952.1094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman) writes:
>I recently acquired some tropical seeds (dwarf banana, bird of paradise,
>passion flower) and need some advice on how to get them started.  The problem 
>is that they require germination tempereatures between 80 - 90 degrees.
>
>How can I provide adequate temperatures and humidity etc. in my cold apartment?
>I figure I could make some sort of mini greenhouse with an aquarium, but I don't
>know the best way to keep the temperature up.

You can purchase heating pads from garden seed companies.  A cheaper alternative
is hog heating pads from farm suppliers, but that may not be an option in
your area.  I just payed $50 for two 36"*12" pads from Kane Manufacturing in
Des Moines, IA.  You also need a way to vary the temperature such as with
a dimmer switch for lights (another ~$15).

Many people just set seed trays on the pads.  This spring I plan to put my
trays in aluminum water pans which then sit on the mats.  I'm hoping for
better heat distribution and humidity with that scheme.



-- 
Noel W. Anderson                   nanders@plains.nodak.edu (Internet)
Asst Prof, Computer Engineering         "I speak for myself, not NDSU"
EE Dept, North Dakota State University         nanders@plains (BITNET)


Article 839 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba rec.gardens:13132 bionet.plants:839
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!copper!cudnvr!smallory
From: smallory@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Seed germination for tropical plants
Message-ID: <1993Jan25.123921.1@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu>
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:32:21 GMT
References: <1993Jan25.141952.1094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: netnews@copper.denver.colorado.edu
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Distribution: na
Lines: 20

In article <1993Jan25.141952.1094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman) writes:
> I recently acquired some tropical seeds (dwarf banana, bird of paradise,
> passion flower) and need some advice on how to get them started.  The problem 
> is that they require germination tempereatures between 80 - 90 degrees.
> 
> How can I provide adequate temperatures and humidity etc. in my cold apartment?
> I figure I could make some sort of mini greenhouse with an aquarium, but I don't
> know the best way to keep the temperature up.

For supplying heat, the cheapest way to go may be to go to a Salvation Army or
Value Village, or other place that sells used items very cheaply, and buy a
used waterbed heater with its thermostat. Check in the store to make certain
that it actually warm up when plugged in, however. This is can be set under a
used shower curtain with soil on top of it to make a germinating/rooting bed
for a very low price.
  This doesn't provide humidity, however, and I would be interested in learning
of an inexpesive way to maintain it.

Sean Mallory            (smallory@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu)
University of Colorado, Denver


Article 840 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!teal.csn.org!wessorh
From: wessorh@teal.csn.org (Rick H. Wesson)
Subject: Request for jobs in plant identification
Message-ID: <C1FDsD.DpF@csn.org>
Sender: news@csn.org (news)
Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:50:37 GMT
Lines: 7

 would like to know if there are any jobs dealing with plant identification
I would like to learn as much as I could, pay need only be enough for survival, Feild work a must. If any of you know of any programs where a college grad could be useful to someone in plant identification please drop me a note. 

many thanks,

-Rick



Article 841 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!iscsvax.uni.edu!klier
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Taxonomists: charging into oblivion 
Message-ID: <1993Jan25.210646.10167@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:06:43 -0600
References: <1993Jan25.000208.15251@massey.ac.nz>
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: University of Northern Iowa
Lines: 24

In article <1993Jan25.000208.15251@massey.ac.nz>, COKelly@massey.ac.nz (C.J. O'Kelly) writes:
> 
> Re: Charging fees for taxonomic services.
> 
> Dammit be careful out there!!!
> 
> Some years ago, the Botany Division of New Zealand's Division of
> Scientific and Industrial Research (DSIR) came to a similar conclusion,
> that the day of free taxonomic IDs was at an end.  Hence they began
> charging.
> 
> From that day these guys were dead. ...

Sorry to hear about NZ taxonomy...  especially for a place with
so many fascinating species.

I'm the curator of an underfunded, underappreciated, and sometimes
overused, small herbarium.  I do IDs gratis, but I've been known
to drop hints to people who DO have $$$ that the herbarium could
use some label paper, or a new flora or ...

And yes, the people who need ID's take the hint about 50% of the time.

Kay Klier     Biology Dept  UNI


Article 843 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!Acd.Tusk.Edu!DUMENYO
From: DUMENYO@Acd.Tusk.Edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: AGROBACTERIUM OVERGROWTH
Message-ID: <01GTYYBQA0LU0001QL@Acd.Tusk.Edu>
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:22:12 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Tuskegee University
Lines: 20

DEAR NETWORKER,

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AGROBACTERIUM OVERGROWTH AFTER THE CO-CULTIVATION.

MOST OF THE ANTIBIOTICS I USE SEEM TO BE INEFFECTIVE IN CONTROLING THE 

BACTERIA. DOES ANYBODY OUT THERE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS OF IMPROVED PROTOCOLS

OR ANTIBIOTICS TO EMPLOY IN KEEPING THE BACTERIA UNDER CONTROL? I 

WILL ALSO APPRECIATE NAMES OF SUGGESTED COMPANIES WHICH CARRY 

THESE CHEMICALS. PLEASE REPLY TO MY E-MAIL, FAX OR PHONE.  


                  				C. KORSI DUMENYO
				
					PHONE   205-727-8552
					FAX     205-727-8067
				E-MAIL IN%"DUMENYO@TUSK.EDU"	 


Article 844 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!nigel.msen.com!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!krypton.mankato.msus.edu!lebowitz
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Physcometrilla patens
Message-ID: <1993Jan27.135533.2217@msus1.msus.edu>
From: lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Robert J. Lebowitz)
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:55:32 -0600
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Mankato State University
Nntp-Posting-Host: krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Lines: 11

Is anyone in the US aware of a source of wild and cultivated stocks of
the moss Physcometrilla patens.  I am specifically interested in stocks
which are suitable for genetic analysis purposes.  I understand that
some stocks are easier to obtain protoplasts from than others.

Rob Lebowitz
lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
-- 
Robert J. Lebowitz           Internet         lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University     VOX              (507) 389-2540
Mankato MN 56002-8400


Article 845 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!biosci!s.u-tokyo!news.u-tokyo.ac.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!sh.wide!sun-barr!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!tigerrr!joanie
From: joanie@tigerrr.Eng.Sun.COM (Joan LeFevre)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: need orchid help
Message-ID: <lme67bINNs32@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:21:15 GMT
Reply-To: joanie@tigerrr.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: tigerrr

I'm hoping someone out there can help me ...


I have a mini orchid plant (I've been told it's called a "Moth Orchid"), and I need
some info on caring for it.

The original shoot that bloomed last summer has long since dropped the flowers, and
at the end, new leaves have grown to look like a new plant. Is there a way I can 
cut the new plant off and root it, or something?

Any help is appreciated - I've really grown attached to the plant and would love
to start a new one!

Reply to joanie.lefevre@EBB.Eng.Sun.COM

Joanie  :-))


Article 846 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!stinger
From: stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu (GUALA)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: RE: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: 30 Jan 93 00:21:55 GMT
Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu
Reply-To: stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida  (ufl.edu)
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: pine.circa.ufl.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
a response and hence, will keep this group active.
Your point is well taken and it may be that in New Zealand 
there is no need for IDs.  That would be the implied meaning
of what you are saying.  However, in the US where I am, there
is clearly a need and a need that many are willing to pay for.
Taxonomy is greatly underfunded IMHO but I don't believe that it 
is due to the demand for compensation for IDs.  I consider ID
work to be busywork that I do for pay or as a special favor
to a friend and the number of requests for me to do it for
pay is definitely increasing, not decreasing.  To call oneself
a taxonomist and do only ID work (a situation that I see often
in university situations) is about the same as calling oneself
a taxonomist and sweeping the floor or collecting garbage (which
is what most of those requesting IDs do {just a side gripe}).
It is not advancing research or knowledge at all.  I suspect that 
the best course is to hire a technician to do ID work and let
the researchers compete for their own funds because the funding
that comes to many programs "because they do IDs" is a hollow
victory.                           Stinger


Article 847 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Re: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <1993Jan30.203238.26288@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
References: <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 20:32:38 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
>a response and hence, will keep this group active.
>Your point is well taken and it may be that in New Zealand 
>there is no need for IDs.  That would be the implied meaning
>of what you are saying.  However, in the US where I am, there
>is clearly a need and a need that many are willing to pay for.
>Taxonomy is greatly underfunded IMHO but I don't believe that it 
>is due to the demand for compensation for IDs. 

I've noticed that University departments have been "consolidating" the
traditional *descriptive* disciplines with the new _adventure_ skills (like
various aspects of mol. bio., advanced modelling, etc.)...and why not?

One year ago, I attended an Extension Service and Computers Conference in
Florida at which a gent from the UK detailed the switch over to a
"recovery of costs" mode for their equivalent of the Cooperative Extension
Service here.  Of greatest interest to me, was the _fact_ that thought
there were pre-existing for-fee ag consultancies, the government's
charging a free seemed to *stimulate* a better offering of services by all
concerned, *promoted* a clarefication in everyones' minds (especially the ag
customer) who best offer what, and the net result was that the total
expendiatures for ag info consultancy has increased several fold in the
last five years with NO ONE suffering a loss in gross income (and the
government agencies being now able to recover 50% of costs on their way to
attaining the goal of 100% recovery)!

Whether in the U.S.A., New Zealand or Timbuktu, any good or service that
has a VALUE will have to seek it's marrket clearing price (the point at
which demand just meets supply--or vice versa)...unless that is a legal or
regulatory sanction that forbids that mechanism.

The implications are clear: if the service that one offers for "free" sees a
precipitous drop in demand when switched to a cost recovery scheme, then
that service is worth *only* the time and effort, but not the cash, of its
previous for-free customers.

In my opinion (and it is an opinion), the real complaint from New Zealand
is: how uncomfortable it is that the true value of my "static" service has
been revealed to the public....with the subsequent withdrawal of public
subsidy.  I can recall (I am 50 y.o.) a blacksmith who still operated in my
small New England town as late as 1955.  For sure, there are still
"smithies" operating here and there, but that is now a "niche" service
that is priced as such (expensive) for those who use the "luxuray" of a
horse, rather than mechanical horsepower.  I worked on a kibuttz in Israeli
(years ago) that recalled that the last draft horses were phased out (in
favor of tractors) about 1960.  Yes, there were horse on the kibuttz...but
for pleasure riding.

So the question for New Zealand is: how are you going to revolutionize the
content, focus and delivery of your ID service, such that it will be
appreciated in the public eye and command at least a living wage?   :^)

Steve

---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         




Article 848 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <1993Jan31.031015.21141@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Jan 93 03:09:01 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 21
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <93130011352.MIN-LLBAa15394.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
: a response and hence, will keep this group active.
: [...]

Yes, things have been a little quiet on bionet.plants recently ...

I've been busy upgrading the operating system on the workstations we
use for image analysis, and completing a couple of papers before
embarking on the next part of the project.  I'd be interested to hear
from anyone who knows about lignin histology (other than acid
phlorogucinol) and, in particular, any information about 'iodine green'
which I believe is used to stain for lignin (but I admit I've never
used it).

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 849 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!zeus.tamu.edu!jlw2582
From: jlw2582@zeus.tamu.edu (WHITSON, JOHN LEE)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: re: need help with orchids
Date: 31 Jan 1993 17:47 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <31JAN199317474531@zeus.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

What you've described is a keiki.  It is indeed a small clone of your
original Phalaenopsis orchid.

See if you can find a copy of ORTHO books' _All_About_Orchids_.  Around
here, they are available at WalMart, but you might be able to find them
at your neighborhood garden store.  It'll give you pointers on how to
pot up your new dependant.

Congrats.

j.


Article 847 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Re: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <1993Jan30.203238.26288@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
References: <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 20:32:38 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
>a response and hence, will keep this group active.
>Your point is well taken and it may be that in New Zealand 
>there is no need for IDs.  That would be the implied meaning
>of what you are saying.  However, in the US where I am, there
>is clearly a need and a need that many are willing to pay for.
>Taxonomy is greatly underfunded IMHO but I don't believe that it 
>is due to the demand for compensation for IDs. 

I've noticed that University departments have been "consolidating" the
traditional *descriptive* disciplines with the new _adventure_ skills (like
various aspects of mol. bio., advanced modelling, etc.)...and why not?

One year ago, I attended an Extension Service and Computers Conference in
Florida at which a gent from the UK detailed the switch over to a
"recovery of costs" mode for their equivalent of the Cooperative Extension
Service here.  Of greatest interest to me, was the _fact_ that thought
there were pre-existing for-fee ag consultancies, the government's
charging a free seemed to *stimulate* a better offering of services by all
concerned, *promoted* a clarefication in everyones' minds (especially the ag
customer) who best offer what, and the net result was that the total
expendiatures for ag info consultancy has increased several fold in the
last five years with NO ONE suffering a loss in gross income (and the
government agencies being now able to recover 50% of costs on their way to
attaining the goal of 100% recovery)!

Whether in the U.S.A., New Zealand or Timbuktu, any good or service that
has a VALUE will have to seek it's marrket clearing price (the point at
which demand just meets supply--or vice versa)...unless that is a legal or
regulatory sanction that forbids that mechanism.

The implications are clear: if the service that one offers for "free" sees a
precipitous drop in demand when switched to a cost recovery scheme, then
that service is worth *only* the time and effort, but not the cash, of its
previous for-free customers.

In my opinion (and it is an opinion), the real complaint from New Zealand
is: how uncomfortable it is that the true value of my "static" service has
been revealed to the public....with the subsequent withdrawal of public
subsidy.  I can recall (I am 50 y.o.) a blacksmith who still operated in my
small New England town as late as 1955.  For sure, there are still
"smithies" operating here and there, but that is now a "niche" service
that is priced as such (expensive) for those who use the "luxuray" of a
horse, rather than mechanical horsepower.  I worked on a kibuttz in Israeli
(years ago) that recalled that the last draft horses were phased out (in
favor of tractors) about 1960.  Yes, there were horse on the kibuttz...but
for pleasure riding.

So the question for New Zealand is: how are you going to revolutionize the
content, focus and delivery of your ID service, such that it will be
appreciated in the public eye and command at least a living wage?   :^)

Steve

---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         




Article 848 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <1993Jan31.031015.21141@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Jan 93 03:09:01 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 21
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <93130011352.MIN-LLBAa15394.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
: a response and hence, will keep this group active.
: [...]

Yes, things have been a little quiet on bionet.plants recently ...

I've been busy upgrading the operating system on the workstations we
use for image analysis, and completing a couple of papers before
embarking on the next part of the project.  I'd be interested to hear
from anyone who knows about lignin histology (other than acid
phlorogucinol) and, in particular, any information about 'iodine green'
which I believe is used to stain for lignin (but I admit I've never
used it).

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 850 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: avigolan@bgumail.bgu.ac.il
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Plant Bio Seq
Message-ID: <1993Feb1.110346.2388@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 1 Feb 93 16:33:19 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 8
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am interested in amino acid sequences of plant proteins for comparison
with a partial sequence of a protein I have purified and partially
sequenced from a developing bud of Pistacia vera.  My thanks in advance.
Avi Golan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avi Golan


Article 851 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!netsys!pagesat!olivea!charnel!sifon!monod!francis
From: francis@monod.Biol.McGill.CA (Francis Ouellette)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Plant Bio Seq
Message-ID: <francis.728570980@monod>
Date: 1 Feb 93 12:49:40 GMT
References: <1993Feb1.110346.2388@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Sender: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca
Distribution: bionet
Organization: McGill University
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: monod.biol.mcgill.ca

avigolan@bgumail.bgu.ac.il writes:

>Dear Sir/Madam,
>I am interested in amino acid sequences of plant proteins for comparison
>with a partial sequence of a protein I have purified and partially
>sequenced from a developing bud of Pistacia vera.  My thanks in advance.
>Avi Golan.

Dear Avi,

If you want to compare your sequence to the database, the best thing is
to use the BLAST server at NCBI.

To get started, and to find out how to format your query, send a "help"
message (nothing in the subject field) to :

       blast@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This will return to you (in a few minutes) a document on how to use this
mail server.

regards,

francis


--
| B.F. Francis Ouellette  
| manager, yeast chromosome I & XVI sequencing project
| dept of biology, McGill university, Montreal, Qc, Canada
| francis@monod.biol.mcgill.ca


Article 852 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![tony.hall@canrem.com]
From: "tony hall" <tony.hall@canrem.com>
Subject: pine tree info - wanted
Message-ID: <1993Jan31.4376.493@dosgate>
Reply-To: "tony hall" <tony.hall@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: bionet
Date: 31 Jan 93 12:44:50 EST
Lines: 17



Does anyone know how to take care of a Pine tree indoor?

Light requirements
Water
pruning.


Help needed soon.



See Ya,
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044


Article 853 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: avigolan@bgumail.bgu.ac.il
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: cDNA Lib
Message-ID: <1993Feb1.181445.21752@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 1 Feb 93 23:17:16 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 7
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

To whom it may concern,
I am looking for a cDNA expression library of wheat or barley made of
reproductive organs, preferably reproductive buds.  Please contact.  Thanks
in advance, Avi.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avi Golan


Article 854 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!CREDIT.ERIN.UTORONTO.CA!oatkin
From: oatkin@CREDIT.ERIN.UTORONTO.CA (Owen Atkin)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Susceptibility of plants to aphids
Message-ID: <93Feb1.132343est.40891@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>
Date: 1 Feb 93 18:23:35 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 28

In a recent study comparing the growth rates, biomass partitioning and 
respiration rates of alpine and high arctic ecotypes of Oxyria digyna,
our lab noticed that only the arctic ecotypes were susceptible to 
aphid infestation.  Quite by accident, some plants that had been left
unattended over the Christmas break became infested with a large number
of aphids.  The results was that the arctic ecotypes (3 different ones 
collected from Ellesmere Island at 80oN) were completely killed by the 
aphids.  In contrast, the 2 alpine ecotypes (Swiss and Canadian Rockies)
were almost totally unaffected. 

Our group has little knowledge of what attracts aphids to particular plants.
We would be very interested in any suggestions other parties might have on
why the alpine/arctic ecotypes differ so much in their tolerance of aphids.

Some background information:
All plants were grown hydroponically under 24 hour light at 20C
No difference in RGR was observed between the ecotypes
However, the alpines committed more resources to their leaves at the 
expense of the the stems and had thinner, more dense leaves (ie a greater
leaf weight ratio, specific leaf area and leaf dry matter content, but lower
leaf fresh weight to leaf area ratio [thinner leaves]) than did the arctic
ecotypes.

Any suggestions on the cause of the difference in aphid tolerance would 
be greatly appreciated. 

Owen Atkin, Dept of Botany, University of Toronto, Canada
oatkin@credit.erin.utoronto.ca


Article 855 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!COKelly
From: COKelly@massey.ac.nz (C.J. O'Kelly)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Two lignin methods
Summary: Got an epifluorescence microscope?
Keywords: lignin, autofluorescence, phloroglucinol, histology
Message-ID: <1993Feb1.191513.19753@massey.ac.nz>
Date: 1 Feb 93 19:15:13 GMT
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Lines: 17
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c


In article <1993Jan31.03105.21141@gserv1.d1.ac.uk>, Tony Travis
(ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk) asks:

. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows about lignin histology
. (other than acid phloroglucinol) ...

Only two things I know about.

1: a method for making phloroglucinol preps semipermanent (Speer EO.
1987. Stain Technol. 62: 279).

2: lignin autofluoresces under UV light excitation (lots of refs); for
me, easily the quickest and easiest way to find/show the stuff.

Charley O'Kelly
Mad Phycologist


Article 856 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.general:3474 bionet.plants:856
Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.plants,bionet.arabidopsis
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Electronic access to the Federal Register
Message-ID: <1993Feb1.181104.10469@ncsu.edu>
Summary: the competitive edge via timeliness
Keywords: US Federal Register email electronic documents grants
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 18:11:04 GMT
Lines: 70

Since the following was posted to a ListServ (and would not appear to
be a 'private' communication), I am reposting it here FYI.

---------- Text of forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 09:14:00 EST
>From: "Jerome McNamara (202) 401-1977" <MCNAMARA@A1.DARTH.ESUSDA.GOV>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: National Archives and Communications?

Jim Whittington,

I'm the Systems Manager at the Cooperative State Research Service (CSRS) of
the Department of Agriculture and I have been frustrated by the red tape and
resistance I had encountered within your Department.  Let me explain, and
perhaps you can help me.

CSRS has been transmitting electronically Federal solicitation notices since
May of 1992.  The purpose was to streamline communications to researchers,
research administrators, and contracts and grant officers to maximize
researchers' time for preparation.  Unfortunately, the Federal Register is
the only notification source of many research solicitations.  Many
researchers and department and grants administrators do not have ready
access to the Federal Register, and, therefore do not have sufficient time
to prepare and submit proposals before the solicitiation due dates.  Making
notices available electronically from CSRS alleviates some of this problem.

My frustration begins with the fact that the National Archives, office of
the Federal Register will not provide my agency or any other with an
electronic copy of the Federal Register.  Instead, we have to read/scan the
documents to see if there are any Grant Notifications from agencies (Energy,
NASA, Education, etc. etc.), and then re-enter this data into our system for
transmission across the internet.

Current Options:
Commercial Services - they download Federal Register tapes and provide
     electronic copies, but are running about a week or more later.
US GPO - The GPO only can publish the "table of contents" electronically -
     not the text!
NTIS Fedworld - No option for the Federal Register

The bottom line is that dealines are still missed, and my calendar says that
it is 1993 and we should share the information locked in our databases and
bureaucracies.  Any help you can provide me to gain access to current
electronic copies of the Federal Register will be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou.

-Jerry
                             Jerome J. McNamara
                              Systems Manager
                 USDA - Cooperative State Research Service
                         901 D Street SW, Room 310B
                           Washington D.C., 20250
                         Telephone: (202) 401-1977
                    Internet:  mcnamara@darth.esusda.gov

  ---- End of Forwarded Message -------

Steve
---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         


Article 857 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!vm.univie.ac.at!A8721DAB
From: A8721DAB@vm.univie.ac.at (Alexander Seidel)
Subject: textbooks of histochemistry?
Message-ID: <1993Feb1.203007.6802@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
Sender: news@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at (News System - Vienna University)
Nntp-Posting-Host: helios.edvz.univie.ac.at
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1993 20:16:01 GMT
Lines: 11

Are there any short and comprehensive English textbooks of botanical histo-
chemistry you would recommand?

Thanks in advance

Alexander Seidel
Inst. f. Pflanzenphysiologie
Althanstr. 14
Univ. Vienna
A-1090 Wien
Austria


Article 858 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Key to aphid tolerance
Message-ID: <01GU7QIEAR5C8WWYVN@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 1 Feb 93 20:55:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 27

Dear Owen:
If I might be allowed to speculate on aphid susceptibility:

 Aphids carry diseases to which the arctic ecotype might be 
  vulnerable. Plant viruses are transmitted by aphids.

 There might be mechanical features of the vulnerable ecotype, not
  shared by heartier varieties. Stem cross sections might reveal
  protective fibrous bundle sheaths around the veins of resistant
  ecotypes.

 Resistant ecotypes might be hairier (more trichomes, especially
  glandular ones), thus impeding aphid mobility.

 Resistant ecotypes might be better able to form callose slime plugs,
  thereby limiting resource loss to the aphids. Vulnerable ecotypes
  in contrast might freely bleed phloem contents through punctured
  sieve tube members.

These are things I would look for. It is uncommon for aphids to actually
KILL plants. I have seen horribly thick infestations on wild and domestic
plants (Lupines, and roses), but cannot recall having an entire plant
die from the abuse.
                              Best,    George Ellmore
                                       Biology
                                       Tufts Univ.
                                       Medford, MA  USA


Article 847 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: Re: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <1993Jan30.203238.26288@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
References: <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 20:32:38 GMT
Lines: 69

In article <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
>a response and hence, will keep this group active.
>Your point is well taken and it may be that in New Zealand 
>there is no need for IDs.  That would be the implied meaning
>of what you are saying.  However, in the US where I am, there
>is clearly a need and a need that many are willing to pay for.
>Taxonomy is greatly underfunded IMHO but I don't believe that it 
>is due to the demand for compensation for IDs. 

I've noticed that University departments have been "consolidating" the
traditional *descriptive* disciplines with the new _adventure_ skills (like
various aspects of mol. bio., advanced modelling, etc.)...and why not?

One year ago, I attended an Extension Service and Computers Conference in
Florida at which a gent from the UK detailed the switch over to a
"recovery of costs" mode for their equivalent of the Cooperative Extension
Service here.  Of greatest interest to me, was the _fact_ that thought
there were pre-existing for-fee ag consultancies, the government's
charging a free seemed to *stimulate* a better offering of services by all
concerned, *promoted* a clarefication in everyones' minds (especially the ag
customer) who best offer what, and the net result was that the total
expendiatures for ag info consultancy has increased several fold in the
last five years with NO ONE suffering a loss in gross income (and the
government agencies being now able to recover 50% of costs on their way to
attaining the goal of 100% recovery)!

Whether in the U.S.A., New Zealand or Timbuktu, any good or service that
has a VALUE will have to seek it's marrket clearing price (the point at
which demand just meets supply--or vice versa)...unless that is a legal or
regulatory sanction that forbids that mechanism.

The implications are clear: if the service that one offers for "free" sees a
precipitous drop in demand when switched to a cost recovery scheme, then
that service is worth *only* the time and effort, but not the cash, of its
previous for-free customers.

In my opinion (and it is an opinion), the real complaint from New Zealand
is: how uncomfortable it is that the true value of my "static" service has
been revealed to the public....with the subsequent withdrawal of public
subsidy.  I can recall (I am 50 y.o.) a blacksmith who still operated in my
small New England town as late as 1955.  For sure, there are still
"smithies" operating here and there, but that is now a "niche" service
that is priced as such (expensive) for those who use the "luxuray" of a
horse, rather than mechanical horsepower.  I worked on a kibuttz in Israeli
(years ago) that recalled that the last draft horses were phased out (in
favor of tractors) about 1960.  Yes, there were horse on the kibuttz...but
for pleasure riding.

So the question for New Zealand is: how are you going to revolutionize the
content, focus and delivery of your ID service, such that it will be
appreciated in the public eye and command at least a living wage?   :^)

Steve

---
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|     In person:  Steve Modena     AB4EL                           |
|     On phone:   (919) 515-5328                                   |
|     At e-mail:  nmodena@unity.ncsu.edu                           | 
|                 samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu                |
|                 [ either email address is read each day ]        |
|     By snail:   Crop Sci Dept, Box 7620, NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
         Lighten UP!  It's just a computer doing that to you.    (c)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
         




Article 846 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!stinger
From: stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu (GUALA)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: RE: Taxonomists charging into oblivion
Message-ID: <38426@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: 30 Jan 93 00:21:55 GMT
Sender: news@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu
Reply-To: stinger@pine.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida  (ufl.edu)
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: pine.circa.ufl.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

Thank you C.J. O'Kelly for putting up a post that demands
a response and hence, will keep this group active.
Your point is well taken and it may be that in New Zealand 
there is no need for IDs.  That would be the implied meaning
of what you are saying.  However, in the US where I am, there
is clearly a need and a need that many are willing to pay for.
Taxonomy is greatly underfunded IMHO but I don't believe that it 
is due to the demand for compensation for IDs.  I consider ID
work to be busywork that I do for pay or as a special favor
to a friend and the number of requests for me to do it for
pay is definitely increasing, not decreasing.  To call oneself
a taxonomist and do only ID work (a situation that I see often
in university situations) is about the same as calling oneself
a taxonomist and sweeping the floor or collecting garbage (which
is what most of those requesting IDs do {just a side gripe}).
It is not advancing research or knowledge at all.  I suspect that 
the best course is to hire a technician to do ID work and let
the researchers compete for their own funds because the funding
that comes to many programs "because they do IDs" is a hollow
victory.                           Stinger


Article 859 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Susceptibility of plants to aphids
Message-ID: <1993Feb2.095959.1092@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Feb 93 09:59:33 GMT
References: <93Feb1.211150est.40989@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>; from "Owen Atkin" at Feb 1, 93 9:11 pm
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 44
Original-To: oatkin@ca.utoronto.erin.credit (Owen Atkin)
Original-Cc: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury, ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri (Tony Travis)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Owen Atkin said:
> 
> Dear Tony,
> 
> Thanks for your reply concerning my inquiry about the aphid/alpine-arctic

I hope you don't mind if I post a reply here Owen: you've raised an
issue that may be interesting to discuss further on bionet.plants.

> question.  Your suggestion that the aphids may be predating the thinner alpine
> leaves because of easier access to the phloem is a good one - only 
> problem is that the aphids actually infested the thicker leaves of the 
> arctic ecotypes, rather than the leaves of the alpine.  I may have made a 
> mistake in the message I sent out to bionet.plants.

Maybe the phloem is nearer the surface or more easily accessible in the
arctic ecotypes?

> In a few weeks I will look more closely at the internal leaf anatomy of the
> leaves (with Dr Nancy Dengler).  This may give some indication as to 
> whether the leaves differ  iways that may help resist aphids

We've just written a couple of papers (in press) about the use of image
analysis to measure cell wall thickness and other anatomical features
automatically:

Travis, A.J., Murison, S.D. & Chesson, A. (1993).  Estimation of plant
	cell wall thickness and cell size by image skeletonization, Journal
	of Agricultural Science, Cambridge, 120, xx-xx.

Travis, A.J., Murison, S.D., Chesson,A. & Walker, K.C. (1993). 
	Quantitative measurement of stem anatomy as an indicator of
	varietal performance.  Aspects of Applied Biology, Physiology of
	Varieties, 34, xx-xx.

Perhaps it would be interesting to compare your leaves using a similar
technique?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 860 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.general:3484 bionet.plants:860
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stanford.edu!hsdndev!nmr-z!OCHRE.MGH.HARVARD.EDU!CHERRY
From: cherry@OCHRE.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.plants,bionet.arabidopsis
Subject: crossposting (re: electronic access to the federal register)
Message-ID: <1993Feb2.043342.22180@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu>
Date: 2 Feb 93 04:33:42 GMT
References: <1993Feb1.181104.10469@ncsu.edu>
Sender: usenet@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (User for USENET news postings)
Reply-To: cherry@OCHRE.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ochre.mgh.harvard.edu

Caution: Crossposting is good for usenet readers of bionet groups.
However it is bad for those that receive these messages via one of the
BioSci mailing lists. The usenet software only transmits one copy of
the message eventhough it can be read in several newsgroups. This is
the source of the problem with the mailing lists. The mailing list
corresponding to the first newsgroup stated for a posting gets the
message. The second and any following groups will only be available to
the usenet readers and not to the mailing list readers.  Thus this
message (which was posted to: bionet.general, bionet.plants, and
bionet.arabidopsis) will be received by the mailing list for
bionet.general while the bionet.plants and bionet.arabidopsis mailing
lists will not.

I'd guess that those reading the Plants and Arabidopsis mailing lists
represent a large percentage of the total readers of the group. This
is probably true for several other bionet groups as well. Thus it is
my recommendation that crossposting should not be used.

Mike Cherry


Article 861 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!vm.univie.ac.at!A8471DAB
From: A8471DAB@vm.univie.ac.at (Dr. Ch. Wawrosch/Prof.Dr. B. Kopp)
Subject: Ayurveda medicinal plants
Message-ID: <1993Feb2.144936.12319@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
Sender: news@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at (News System - Vienna University)
Nntp-Posting-Host: helios.edvz.univie.ac.at
Organization: University of Vienna
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 14:39:44 GMT
Lines: 18

Hi
here at the Institute of Pharmacognosy, University of Vienna, we have a
project going on dealing with traditional medicinal plants used in the
Indian Ayurveda medicine.
Our main problem is that it's very difficult to get original plant
material (drugs as well as voucher specimens) for systematical
examination (microscopy, chemistry etc.): the people who sell the drugs
in India mostly do not cooperate, means they do not reveal where they
get their drugs from.
Does ANYONE know adresses of botanical gardens (e.g. in Delhi), breeders,
cultivators etc. etc.??? Or does anyone know other people who could help
us? Any telephone number, adress, fax nr. etc. could help us.
We would be very pleased if anyone could help us.
Sincerely,

Chris
(a8471dab@awiuni11.edvz.univie.ac.at)



Article 862 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.general:3485 bionet.plants:862
Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.plants,bionet.arabidopsis
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!not-for-mail
From: weed-matthew@cs.yale.edu (Matthew Weed)
Subject: other minorities in biology was re: Sticking to WOMEN IN BIOLOGY\
Message-ID: <1km2mhINNrt0@SUNED.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU>
Lines: 19
Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News)
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Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
References: <1993Feb1.181104.10469@ncsu.edu> <1993Feb2.043342.22180@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 15:06:57 GMT

Sadly, women are not the only "minority" which is discriminated against in the sciences.
I, as a blind person, suffer from many preconceptions about my abilities in the sciences, which I have had to work very hard to overcome.
Yes, there are some things I can not do, such as microscope work, (or at least not with the acuracy of sighted persons), micro disection, and many other lab-related tasks.
However, I can learn the implications of the material as well as any other student, and, given a little extra help, can perform as well as other students in my classes.
Another area which is often a problem for me, is something which sighted people would never consider.  Doubtless many here work in large university-based laboratories where equipment is strewn around rather haphazzardly.  
For me, this is a problem, since many of the objects found in lab are things which 
are smaller in terms of floor space than they are in area coverage at say head level.
I have had more than a few graduate students save both me and expensive eqwuipment from serious damage in the nick of time.
This is particularly frustrating, when the equipment flows out of laboratories and into hallways.
This happens frequently, and makes it difficult for me to see my professors in lab, as their labs may be some distance from the elevator, and so I have to pass by labs which are not very conscientious about keeping their extra refrigerators, autoclaves, e

tc out of the hallways.
 Ihope that a few people will read this post, and think twice about where they put things in lab buildings, as people less able to deal with their placement may need to pass through the hallway, room, etc where they have left their equipment.
I am happy to discuss the matter further with anyone interested.
You can reach me at the address in my signature.

-- 
"The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets 
which it must turn over to the next generation, increased and not 
impaired in valued."  --President Theodore Roosevelt
Matthew Weed	weed-matthew@suned.zoo.cs.yale.edu


Article 863 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!adwright
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: Susceptibility of plants to aphids
Message-ID: <adwright.728677664@vincent1.iastate.edu>
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
References: <93Feb1.211150est.40989@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>; from "Owen Atkin" at Feb 1, 93 9:11 pm <1993Feb2.095959.1092@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 18:27:44 GMT
Lines: 10

Just my $.02 worth, but i had a field of EMS M3 plants (maize of course) im my
summer nursery and i noticed one that was just covered with aphids. They were 
on the sheaths, leaf blades, stems, everywhere. It was a B73 inbred background.
I got 5 seeds from this guy (self pollination). The plant looked otherwise 
normal. Perhaps this is a mutant that accumulates an aphid attractor or
does not produce an aphid inhibitor. I will increase these this Summer. 
Needless to say, they will be pampered.
Allen




Article 863 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!adwright
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: Susceptibility of plants to aphids
Message-ID: <adwright.728677664@vincent1.iastate.edu>
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
References: <93Feb1.211150est.40989@credit.erin.utoronto.ca>; from "Owen Atkin" at Feb 1, 93 9:11 pm <1993Feb2.095959.1092@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1993 18:27:44 GMT
Lines: 10

Just my $.02 worth, but i had a field of EMS M3 plants (maize of course) im my
summer nursery and i noticed one that was just covered with aphids. They were 
on the sheaths, leaf blades, stems, everywhere. It was a B73 inbred background.
I got 5 seeds from this guy (self pollination). The plant looked otherwise 
normal. Perhaps this is a mutant that accumulates an aphid attractor or
does not produce an aphid inhibitor. I will increase these this Summer. 
Needless to say, they will be pampered.
Allen




Article 864 of bionet.plants:
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From: etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Euan R. Taylor)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: cereal nitrogen fixation
Message-ID: <C1uFAz.2An@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: 2 Feb 93 22:47:23 GMT
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A second question, relating to a naive (very) ex[eriment we did some time ago.
If you plant surface sterilised seeds in autoclaved soil, growth is about
1 1/2 weeks behind that of regular seeds in regular soil. What do you
think I could be driving off in the soil tthat might cause this (NH4,
oxygen, ?) we didn't do the other combinations at the time, as I say it
was a very naive experiment that we set up last thing before christmas,
jsut out of interest.


-- 
etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
dept. Plant Science, U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, R3L OH3
"my institution doesnt even know I exist"


Article 860 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.general:3484 bionet.plants:860
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From: cherry@OCHRE.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.general,bionet.plants,bionet.arabidopsis
Subject: crossposting (re: electronic access to the federal register)
Message-ID: <1993Feb2.043342.22180@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu>
Date: 2 Feb 93 04:33:42 GMT
References: <1993Feb1.181104.10469@ncsu.edu>
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Caution: Crossposting is good for usenet readers of bionet groups.
However it is bad for those that receive these messages via one of the
BioSci mailing lists. The usenet software only transmits one copy of
the message eventhough it can be read in several newsgroups. This is
the source of the problem with the mailing lists. The mailing list
corresponding to the first newsgroup stated for a posting gets the
message. The second and any following groups will only be available to
the usenet readers and not to the mailing list readers.  Thus this
message (which was posted to: bionet.general, bionet.plants, and
bionet.arabidopsis) will be received by the mailing list for
bionet.general while the bionet.plants and bionet.arabidopsis mailing
lists will not.

I'd guess that those reading the Plants and Arabidopsis mailing lists
represent a large percentage of the total readers of the group. This
is probably true for several other bionet groups as well. Thus it is
my recommendation that crossposting should not be used.

Mike Cherry


Article 865 of bionet.plants:
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From: EWEN@WHMAIN.uel.ac.uk
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: cereal nitrogen fixation
Message-ID: <1993Feb3.084212.25142@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Feb 93 08:42:41 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).

Greetings Plant People,

On 2nd Feb, Euan Taylor from Manitoba wrote...

>A second question, relating to a naive (very) ex[eriment we did some
>time ago.
>If you plant surface sterilised seeds in autoclaved soil, growth is
>about
>1 1/2 weeks behind that of regular seeds in regular soil. What do you
>think I could be driving off in the soil tthat might cause this (NH4,
>oxygen, ?) we didn't do the other combinations at the time, as I say
>it
>was a very naive experiment that we set up last thing before
>christmas, jsut out of interest.


Now, call ME naieve, and everybody out there please feel free to
shoot me down, but can we for a moment consider 3 little words about
which my PhD revolves...

                    SOIL MICROBIAL BIOMASS

Now, looking at this experiment from the viewpoint of a
microbiologist gone soils, autoclaving the soil will kill off the
soil microbial biomass, and, more specifically in regards to Euan's
experiment, those portions of the SMB  that could prove to be
beneficial to a germinating plant (N-fixers, possibly symbionts,
possibly mycorrhizae)

Autoclaving is going to kill off 99.9% of the SMB, releasing a flush
of nutrients into the soil. What I have observed happens in this
situation is that there is, within a period of 2-3 days, a massive
recovery of the SMB from the spore bank and those portions of fungal
hyphae that have managed to survive the autoclaving. These then
utilise the nutrient made available from the kill-off, but as the
community grows, it then steps into a period of competition, both
within the SMB and with anything else in the soil (viz, Euan's
germinating plant), for resources that are becoming increasingly
unavailable (i.e. specifically P), which leads to the establishment
of a fairly aggressive community (bugs switch resources to production
of antimicrobial compounds) that may also have an effect on this poor
little seedling.

Now, I have observed this peaking/killoff of the SMB over a period of
60 days in an artificial soil (50% clay, 40% sharp sand, 10% sterile
Organic matter), and, whilst I'm still chewing the data, would be
willing to suggest that what is happening is more or less as I have
outlined it above.

How to put this politely... Listen all you plant people out there.
The processes do not start proceed and end with your little green
things. The Soil Microbial Biomass is the eye of the needle through
which the processes of plant nutrition must pass (both ways, I know,
since root exudates form a vital part of the nutrient supply for the
rhizosphere Micro-organisms).

For  great examples of how to completely ignore the SMB in plant
microcosm work, please feel free to mail me. I have a very long list.

So, let's have it people. All criticism gratefully recieved, because,
as Euan's sig file says, My institution doesn't know I exist either !
(Incidentally, great name, Euan. Not too many of us about !)

And I'ld be very grateful just to see how many other people out there
are working in similar fields to myself. The Title of the thesis is
"The application of Plant Strategist Theory to the processes of Soil
Microbial Ecology". All correspondance gratefully recieved and
replied to !

All the best,

EWEN







***************************************************
*         "Beam Me Up, Scotty,                    *
*               This Planet Sucks !"              *
***************************************************
* Ewen McPherson, Research Assistant              *
* e-Mail: EWEN@whmain.uel.ac.uk                   *
* Snail : Environment and Industry Research Unit  *
*         Department of Environmental Sciences    *
*         University of East London               *
*         Romford Road, Stratford,                *
*         London E15 4LZ                          *
*         United Kingdom                          *
***************************************************


Article 866 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!netsys!pagesat!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: cereal nitrogen fixation
Message-ID: <1993Feb3.135422.16522@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Feb 93 13:53:06 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
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Organization: Rowett Research Institute
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Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury

In article <9323084255.MIN-LNJAa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: Greetings Plant People,

Greetings, Ewen.

: [autoclaved soil stuff deleted ...]
: How to put this politely... Listen all you plant people out there.

ok, we're listening ...

: The processes do not start proceed and end with your little green
: things. The Soil Microbial Biomass is the eye of the needle through
: which the processes of plant nutrition must pass (both ways, I know,
: since root exudates form a vital part of the nutrient supply for the
: rhizosphere Micro-organisms).

I beg to differ: the 'process' starts with energy capture by autotrophs
(ie. "little green things") that supply the complex carbohydrates used
by the heterotrophic 'SMB' in their helpful symbiosis - rather like the
symbiotic relationships between plant biologists and microbiologists ;-)

I don't dispute the great importance of the SMB, but the observation
that plants grow readily under hydroponic (or aeroponic) cultivation
demonstrates that the processes of plant nutrition do not depend on the
presence of an active SMB.

The issue you are raising, Ewen, is the importance of SMB to nutrient
availability.  Hydroponic cultivation is clearly only possible because
of the symbiotic relationship between the chemical industry and some
horticulturalists :-(

: For  great examples of how to completely ignore the SMB in plant
: microcosm work, please feel free to mail me. I have a very long list.
: 
: So, let's have it people. All criticism gratefully recieved, because,
: as Euan's sig file says, My institution doesn't know I exist either !
: (Incidentally, great name, Euan. Not too many of us about !)
: [...]

My institution knows I exist in cyberspace, and it knows how much it
cost to get me there but it doesn't know the real value of the journey.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 867 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Come again, Ewen
Message-ID: <01GUA8976GHS8WY23X@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 3 Feb 93 15:44:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 12

Ewen (with apologies to netters more conscientious than I when it comes
to SAVING messages):

Your first posting on SMB was not only provocative, it was actually useful
for some of my work. Unfortunately, I deleted it by mistake. If I could
prevail upon you to salvage it and send it to me, that would be great.
(or if any netter still has it around, I'll take it that way too).

                Thank you,   George Ellmore
                             Biology
                             Tufts Univ
                             Medford, MA


Article 868 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Fungicide compositions
Message-ID: <01GUAFYDMG9C8WXWT7@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 3 Feb 93 19:25:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 10

I am working on a grant proposal dealing in part with fungicides
and other antimicrobials used to treat crop seeds. Usually seeds thus
treated are coated in bright pink dust to warn consumers not to eat them.
I now have a list of the trade names for many of these microbials, but

Could somebody supply me with a reference that can translate trade
names such as Thiram into a chemical formula? Something analagous
to the PDR for pharmaceuticals, or the Merck Index. 

Many thanks.


Article 869 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!cgsvax.claremont.edu!goldsmig
From: goldsmig@cgsvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Russian Botanist's Name?
Message-ID: <1993Feb3.124402.1@cgsvax.claremont.edu>
Lines: 8
Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System)
Organization: The Claremont Graduate School
Date: 3 Feb 93 12:44:02 PST

A recent radio broadcast of "Sound Prints" featured a Russian botanist (?)
who gained international fame for his collection of seeds and whose career
spanned the first half (?) of this century.

Can someone help me with the name of this gentleman and, if possible, the
title of his primary work?  Thank you very much in advance.

George Goldsmith


Article 870 of bionet.plants:
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From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Thank you for Ewen's msg
Message-ID: <01GUALHYHX6S8WXZRL@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 3 Feb 93 22:04:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
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Lines: 2

Many thanks to Plant Bionetters for quickly responding to my request
to recover Ewen's soil microbial biomass message. I'm all set now.


Article 871 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!biosci!NETCOM.COM!wick
From: wick@NETCOM.COM (Potter Wickware)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Russian Botanist's Name?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302031527.A3894-a100000@netcom2>
Date: 3 Feb 93 23:28:37 GMT
References: <9302032109.AA16557@net.bio.net>
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	I didn't hear the broadcast, but it sounds like NI Vavilov, who
not only greatly expanded the collection started by RE Regel in 1890, but
was a hero of the battle of Leningrad.  See the memoir in Diversity
7(4):10, May 1991.  
	Potter Wickware wick@netcom.com

On 3 Feb 1993 goldsmig@cgsvax.claremont.edu wrote:

> A recent radio broadcast of "Sound Prints" featured a Russian botanist (?)
> who gained international fame for his collection of seeds and whose career
> spanned the first half (?) of this century.
> 
> Can someone help me with the name of this gentleman and, if possible, the
> title of his primary work?  Thank you very much in advance.
> 
> George Goldsmith
> 


Article 872 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: hydroponic potatoes
Message-ID: <1993Feb4.033142.13347@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 03:31:42 GMT
Lines: 26

I'm relaying something from another list becuase it might get a response
from someone reading this list.

Please reply to: dharris@upei.ca  ....and not me.  :^)
  ---------------------Forwarded Message--------------
>From AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu  Wed Feb  3 14:34:12 1993
Message-Id: <9302031934.AA105912@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Date:         Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:31:21 -0500
Reply-To: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>From: DHARRIS@UPEI.CA
Subject:      HELP-MINITUBERS
Comments: To: AGRIC-L@UGA.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

I am looking for information about propagating potato minitubers
hydroponically.  These would then be used as seed stock, hopefully
bypassing several disease stages.  Is anyone out there in the ether
working in this area or can direct me to someone who is?

Thanks

Don Harris
dharris@upei.ca

  -----------------End of Forwarded Message----------------


Article 872 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: hydroponic potatoes
Message-ID: <1993Feb4.033142.13347@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 03:31:42 GMT
Lines: 26

I'm relaying something from another list becuase it might get a response
from someone reading this list.

Please reply to: dharris@upei.ca  ....and not me.  :^)
  ---------------------Forwarded Message--------------
>From AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu  Wed Feb  3 14:34:12 1993
Message-Id: <9302031934.AA105912@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Date:         Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:31:21 -0500
Reply-To: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>From: DHARRIS@UPEI.CA
Subject:      HELP-MINITUBERS
Comments: To: AGRIC-L@UGA.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

I am looking for information about propagating potato minitubers
hydroponically.  These would then be used as seed stock, hopefully
bypassing several disease stages.  Is anyone out there in the ether
working in this area or can direct me to someone who is?

Thanks

Don Harris
dharris@upei.ca

  -----------------End of Forwarded Message----------------


Article 872 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!taco!csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu!samodena
From: samodena@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu (S. A. Modena)
Subject: hydroponic potatoes
Message-ID: <1993Feb4.033142.13347@ncsu.edu>
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Crop Science Dept., NCSU, Raleigh, NC 27695-7620
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 03:31:42 GMT
Lines: 26

I'm relaying something from another list becuase it might get a response
from someone reading this list.

Please reply to: dharris@upei.ca  ....and not me.  :^)
  ---------------------Forwarded Message--------------
>From AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu  Wed Feb  3 14:34:12 1993
Message-Id: <9302031934.AA105912@csemail.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Date:         Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:31:21 -0500
Reply-To: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Sender: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>From: DHARRIS@UPEI.CA
Subject:      HELP-MINITUBERS
Comments: To: AGRIC-L@UGA.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

I am looking for information about propagating potato minitubers
hydroponically.  These would then be used as seed stock, hopefully
bypassing several disease stages.  Is anyone out there in the ether
working in this area or can direct me to someone who is?

Thanks

Don Harris
dharris@upei.ca

  -----------------End of Forwarded Message----------------


Article 873 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!ROCKVAX.ROCKEFELLER.EDU!ralston
From: ralston@ROCKVAX.ROCKEFELLER.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: hydroponic potatoes
Message-ID: <9302041807.AA27543@rockvax.ROCKEFELLER.EDU>
Date: 4 Feb 93 18:07:34 GMT
References: <9302040820.AA07626@net.bio.net>
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 7

In response to the forwarded message of Don Harris about
potato minitubers, I recall a few years back that a company
named Plant genetics Inc (PGI) in Davis, CA was producing 
something like this, but I don't recall if it was hydroponic
culture or not.  Maybe this is a start in the right direction?

Diana Horvath


Article 874 of bionet.plants:
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From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: cereal nitrogen fixation
Date: 4 Feb 1993 17:54:10 GMT
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X-XXDate: Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:58:15 GMT

In article <C1uFAz.2An@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Euan R. Taylor,
etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca writes:
>A second question, relating to a naive (very) experiment we did some
time ago.
>If you plant surface sterilised seeds in autoclaved soil, growth is about
>1 1/2 weeks behind that of regular seeds in regular soil. What do you
>think I could be driving off in the soil tthat might cause this (NH4,
>oxygen, ?) we didn't do the other combinations at the time, as I say it
>was a very naive experiment that we set up last thing before christmas,
>just out of interest.

Surface sterilizing seeds makes them leaky, and generally reduces vigor
of the seedling (e.g. delays emergence).  Autoclaving soil gives you all
kinds of weird and wonderful chemical reactions that don't usually
happen.  Some of these apparently yield compounds that inhibit plant
growth.  It is often the case that planting surface-sterilized seed is
autoclaved soil produces sick plants.  The reason is pretty obvious:  a
weak host, lots of nutrients available and no competition.  You couldn't
make it much more inviting for pathogens.  Unless the soil is infested
with Pithium, Rhizoctonia or another vicious pathogen, you will do better
planting untreated seed into unsterilized soil.  Work with the microflora
instead if fighting it.

I guess from the  thread that you are studying soil bacteria, so this
suggestion may not be appropriate for you.  If you really need sterile
natural soil, you might look into microwaving it.  It is possible to
sterilize soil without much heating by microwaving in short bursts.


Article 875 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!ONRSDE.AGR.CA!REELEDER
From: REELEDER@ONRSDE.AGR.CA
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Fungicide compositions - reply
Message-ID: <01GUBX9JIO2A006Y34@GW.AGR.CA>
Date: 4 Feb 93 21:52:25 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 17


>Subj:	Fungicide compositions

>I am working on a grant proposal dealing in part with fungicides

>Could somebody supply me with a reference that can translate trade
>names such as Thiram into a chemical formula? Something analagous
>to the PDR for pharmaceuticals, or the Merck Index. 

	A commercial source of info would be the W.T. Thompson Co.
set of publications on agricultural chemicals [Agricultural Chemicals.
Book IV. Fungicides. W.T. Thompson, P.O. Box 9335, Fresno CA 93791].
However, a call to a local office of the pesticide regulatory branch
of USDA or EPA should be useful.  They normally have computer
databases with this info.  Also you could contact the manufacturer
directly; they have literature with this info and safe handling info.



Article 876 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!etaylor
From: etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Euan R. Taylor)
Subject: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <C1y4w5.Eto@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 22:52:52 GMT
Lines: 7

This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

-- 
etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
dept. Plant Science, U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, R3L OH3
"my institution doesnt even know I exist"


Article 877 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!caen!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!att-out!cbfsb!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!djd
From: djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton)
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb5.001322.18079@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
References: <C1y4w5.Eto@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 00:13:22 GMT
Lines: 23

Newsgroup ill?  No, but I think some of us are a bit intimidated.
Most of my garden questions go to "rec.gardens" (and I see Kay
Klier posts both there and here).

I still enjoy reading this group, although I don't understand
much about the carbon cycle, etc.  And I like having the group
around in case I ever need it for any really technical problems.

(In that vein, I plan to post something soon about Mimulus
Moschatus, and ask for theories about what made it lose its strong musky 
scent in the first decades of this century--but I want to make sure I 
got all my facts straight first.)

I suspect there are many out there who read rec.gardens and
this group too, and hold back a bit here.  True?

If NOT true, maybe some of use could cross post some recent items of
interest on rec.gardens, such as...
-- "Let's talk about pawpaws" 
-- "Does anyone have any facts and figures about pesticides banned in the U.S.
but produced here, shipped abroad, and consumed on imported produce".

Dave Daulton, Columbus, Ohio


Article 878 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!LIB.TMC.EDU!GSBS1032%UTSPH.THENET
From: GSBS1032%UTSPH.THENET@LIB.TMC.EDU
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: RE: Russian Botanist's Name?
Message-ID: <9302032200.AA22142@lib.tmc.edu>
Date: 3 Feb 93 22:04:29 GMT
Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 15

>A recent radio broadcast of "Sound Prints" featured a Russian botanist (?)
>who gained international fame for his collection of seeds and whose career
>spanned the first half (?) of this century.

>Can someone help me with the name of this gentleman and, if possible, the
>title of his primary work?  Thank you very much in advance.

>George Goldsmith

Probably, this broadcast was devoted to Nicolay Vavilov, a famous Russian
genetisist who collected an outstanding collection of plant seeds from all
over the world and who was arrested and executed at Stalin time. 

Julia



Article 880 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!kristoff
From: kristoff@net.bio.net (David Kristofferson)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <Feb.5.12.00.41.1993.12420@net.bio.net>
Date: 5 Feb 93 20:00:42 GMT
References: <C1y4w5.Eto@ccu.umanitoba.ca> <1993Feb5.001322.18079@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <C1zpHy.1CF@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Biology
Lines: 41

georgen@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (G. Ng) writes:

>In article <1993Feb5.001322.18079@cbfsb.cb.att.com> djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes:
>>Newsgroup ill?  No, but I think some of us are a bit intimidated.
>>Most of my garden questions go to "rec.gardens" (and I see Kay
>>...
>>I suspect there are many out there who read rec.gardens and
>>this group too, and hold back a bit here.  True?

>Although I'm not entirely certain of the original charter of bionet.plants,
>wasn't it created for discussion on more botany, research-oriented
>questions rather than horticultural issues, which I think rec.gardens is for?
>-- 
>george ng
>univ. of toronto undergraduate
>molecular plant biology/botany

The entire bionet domain is dedicated to biological research.  Here is
an excerpt from the original charter by Tony Travis, the discussion
leader.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This newsgroup will initially be open to all aspects of plant biology
(macro and molecular), and if future usage warrants, proposals will be
put forward to form subgroups under the USENET bionet.plant heirarchy,
e.g., bionet.plant.botany.  The discussion leader's interests are in
botany so some of the topics for the group will include the following:

Discussion of issues relating to botany in general, and distribution
of software concerned with the applications of computer techniques in
all aspects of plant biology including, microscopy and analysis of
plant material, image analysis of tissues and intact plants, data
logging and analysis of plant growth by computer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

				Sincerely,

				Dave Kristofferson
				BIOSCI/bionet Manager

				kristoff@net.bio.net


Article 881 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!vincent1.iastate.edu!adwright
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <adwright.728941374@vincent1.iastate.edu>
Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
References: <C1y4w5.Eto@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 19:42:54 GMT
Lines: 17

In <C1y4w5.Eto@ccu.umanitoba.ca> etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Euan R. Taylor) writes:

>This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
>allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

>-- 
>etaylor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
>dept. Plant Science, U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, R3L OH3
>"my institution doesnt even know I exist"


No not ill, but i for one am frantically getting seed ready (maize of course)
for the summer nursery. I don't know what everybody elses excuse is. ;)
Allen





Article 882 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!scolnipa
From: scolnipa@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: let's revive the group
Message-ID: <9302052250.AA21754@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 22:50:22 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 8


There seems to be a consensus that the development of leaves and 
chloroplasts follow separate and independent pathways.  Some recent 
observations in our lab, however, suggest that there is "cross-talk"
between leaves and chloroplasts during development.  Any useful 
observations out there?

Pablo A. Scolnik


Article 882 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!esvax.dnet.dupont.com!scolnipa
From: scolnipa@esvax.dnet.dupont.com
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: let's revive the group
Message-ID: <9302052250.AA21754@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 22:50:22 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 8


There seems to be a consensus that the development of leaves and 
chloroplasts follow separate and independent pathways.  Some recent 
observations in our lab, however, suggest that there is "cross-talk"
between leaves and chloroplasts during development.  Any useful 
observations out there?

Pablo A. Scolnik


Article 883 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!hydra.unm.edu!mwfolsom
From: mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Looking for Gunnera & Peperomia plants
Date: 6 Feb 1993 01:26:58 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Biology, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1kv452INN208@lynx.unm.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.unm.edu


Folks -

I want to do some work on Gunnera and wonder if anyone out
there in cyberspace knows of a source for live plants of any  
of its species.  Thompson & Morgan last catalogue lists seeds 
of one species of Gunnera but I'd really prefer to get hold
of live plants so that would be flowering sooner.

Re: the Peperomias - I'm looking for some very exotic species
of Pep's from South and Central America.  I've been on the 
phone to quite a few Botanical Gardens and Nurseries in North
America to no avail.

Addresses of a nursery or a botanical garden that has them in 
their collection would be appreciated.
 

Thanks to all -

Michael

_______________________________________________________________________________
M.W.Folsom/Biology/UNM/Albuquerque,NM~87131/505.277.4277/mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu



Article 885 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!stanford.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb6.232314.5069@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Feb 93 23:21:57 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 29
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

In article <9324235932.MIN-LVGBa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> you wrote:
: This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
: allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

If you think it is in "very poor health" why not start a discussion
about *your* area of interest.  As others have noted on this thread,
there _is_ a tendency for people to respond to an interesting article
by email and the discussion then 'disappears' from bionet.plants.

However, if you look at the traffic report for bionet over the last
year, you will see that bionet.plants is a moderately active group and
I consider it to be well worthwhile participating in the discussions.

If you think bionet.plants is of low intellectual content then I
suggest you do something about it by example.  I don't think plant
biologists are allergic to computers and there are plenty of us around!

Above all else, please remember that bionet.plants is not a passive
medium and its success, or otherwise, depends on the willingness of
people to participate.  If you find it boring/uninteresting then post
something *you* are interested in and start a new discussion that does
interest you.

	Tony.
--
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  Tony Travis
Rowett Research Institute,            |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |  phone: 0224-712751


Article 886 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!sunflower.bio.indiana.edu!delwiche
From: delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche)
Subject: Re: let's revive the group
Message-ID: <C228sD.3E3@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Summary: Yes, let's.
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunflower.bio.indiana.edu
Organization: Biology, Indiana University - Bloomington
References: <9302052250.AA21754@esds01.es.dupont.com>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 04:07:24 GMT
Lines: 81

In article <9302052250.AA21754@esds01.es.dupont.com> scolnipa@esvax.dnet.dupont.com writes:
>
>There seems to be a consensus that the development of leaves and 
>chloroplasts follow separate and independent pathways.  Some recent 
>observations in our lab, however, suggest that there is "cross-talk"
>between leaves and chloroplasts during development.  Any useful 
>observations out there?
>
>Pablo A. Scolnik

Hmmm...  This is just off the top of my head, but how has the
"consensus that the development of leaves and chloroplasts follow
separate and independent pathways" emerged?  I find that a surprising
assertion.  I suppose that it would be difficult to demonstrate
interactions between development at two very different levels of
organization (subcellular vs whole-organ), but I personally would be
surprised if there were not at least some cross-talk between the
various levels of organization.  There might not be direct
communication, but I would expect at least associative coordination.
I say this because I am familiar with the close synchronization of
organellar and organismal developmental pathways in simpler organisms
than plants.

I do much of my work on Charophycean (sensu Mattox and Stewart) green
algae -- the Charophyceae are a class of fresh water green algae that
have a number of interesting ultrastructural, biochemical, and
molecular characteristics shared with land plants.  By "land plant" I
mean "bryophytes" and drier plants like ferns, "vascular cryptogams",
and seed plants.  What we understand of photosynthetic eukaryotic
phylogeny suggests that charophytes + plants constitute a monophyletic
group.  But there is much more between-taxon diversity of chloroplast
form in the charophytes than there is plants, and this lets one make
some interesting observations.

For example in one charophycean order, the Coleochaetales, there is
normally only one plastid per cell (this is also the condition for one
group of land plants, the "hornworts", or Anthocerotae, which are
informally lumped as "bryophytes).  This plastid is a large,
frisbee-shaped structure which is typically appressed to the dorsal
cell wall.  When the alga, which is multicellular, grows, it is
obviously imperative that cell division and plastid division be well
synchronized.  It is easy to see this synchronization if you study a
living organism; the whole operation is meticulously choreographed.

Even more elaborate is the plastid division that accompanies zygotic
division.  I don't want to torture you all with the gorey details of
algal life histories, but in the genus _Coleochaete_ when the zygote
germinates it undergoes a poorly understood set of divisions that
ultimately produces 8, 16 or even 32 cells from the zygote.  The
zygote initially has a single plastid like a (very large) vegetative
cell, and this plastid undergoes a fantastically complex division that
partitions the plastid and its sub-organellar components, and also
associates the progeny plastids with the appropriate regions of the
cell for subsequent placement in the multiple cells that are produced
from the zygote.  The meiotic divisions, plastid divisions, and
cytokinesis are all ridiculously complex, and equally well coordinated.

OK, so you would probably say "that's all very well and good, but all
that happens in a single cell, which is a far cry from coordination of
organellar and organ development".  But for me it provides a vivid
demonstration of the fact that algal plastids are not just randomly
partitioned during cell division and development.  Their development
is in fact quite closely coordinated with the development of the alga
as a whole.  It would not surprise me to learn that plant plastids are
similarly coordinated with the overall maturation of the cell.  Is it
asking too much to jump from there to coordination with maturation of
the plant organ?  I don't know.  Maybe.  I do believe that at higher
levels of organization (the leaf) there are emergent properties that
one cannot easily predict from properties at lower levels of
organization (at the level of the cell, or at the subcellular level).

What do you think?  Is this a complete red herring?

Chuck

P.S.  I like this newsgroup, but haven't had the time to post lately.
-- 
Charles F. Delwiche       |  'O Oysters, come and walk with us!'
Dept. Biology, I.U.       |      The Walrus did beseech.
Bloomington, IN 47405     |  'A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
[delwiche@bio.indiana.edu]|      Along the briny beach'. -- L. Carrol


Article 887 of bionet.plants:
Xref: samba bionet.genome.arabidopsis:874 bionet.plants:887 bionet.virology:38
Newsgroups: bionet.genome.arabidopsis,bionet.plants,bionet.virology
Path: samba!concert!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!news.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!daschaff
From: daschaff@chopin.udel.edu (Dennis A Schaff)
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Plant Molecular Biology Society Meeting
Message-ID: <C259LH.EK@news.udel.edu>
Sender: usenet@news.udel.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 19:17:40 GMT
Lines: 17

                     First Announcement for:

The 10th annual Mid-Atlantic Plant Molecular Biology Society (MAPMBS) 
meeting will be held July 15-16, 1993 at the University of Delaware.

For those of you not familiar with MAPMBS, it was founded in 1984 as a means
to ensure scientists in the Mid-Atlantic region of a high-quality,
accessible, and affordable plant molecular biology meeting each year.  The
society particularly wishes to encourage graduate student and postdoctoral
participation in presenting oral reports and posters, and contributing to
discussions.  It is our hope that the plant molecular biology community will
continue to support the MAPMBS as it has done in the past.

For additional information contact:  Dennis Schaff, Department of Plant and
Soils Sciences, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19717-1303. 
Phone (302)831-2534, FAX (302)831-3651 or E-mail daschaff@brahms.udel.edu



Article 888 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!caen!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!ceylon!news.tufts.edu!pearl.tufts.edu!gellmore
From: gellmore@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Alt. Agriculture Reviewers sought
Message-ID: <1993Feb8.162906.1@pearl.tufts.edu>
Date: 8 Feb 93 21:29:06 GMT
Sender: news@news.tufts.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Lines: 15

Netters: (this group has plenty of professional vitality, thank you very much)

I'm in the throes of a grant proposal to study alternative (naturally derived)
compounds for use in treating crop seeds against soil pathogens. The granting
agency requires that I submit the names and current addresses of FOUR
external peer reviewers. These reviewers should already be members of journal
editorial boards or major research panels (NSF, USDA, etc).

Anybody out there interested in being on my list? Soil microbiologists, seed
pathologists would be appropriate.
                                           Many thanks, 
                                                        George Ellmore
                                                        Biology
                                                        Tufts Univ
                                                        Medford, MA


Article 889 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!uvaarpa!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!biosci!CompuServe.COM!71552.541
From: 71552.541@CompuServe.COM (Newman/Rabson)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Wetlands vs. boats
Message-ID: <930209053749_71552.541_DHG43-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 9 Feb 93 05:37:50 GMT
Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 57

Ladies and Gentlemen:
 
I am a CompuServe subscriber, hoping to correspond with Internet
users via email. I am trying to locate individuals or interest
groups concerned with wetlands; a fellow CompuServer "cruised" the
Internet for me and suggested that I contact you.
 
I serve on the Wetlands Board of Stafford County, VA. Our Board is
the local permitting authority for activities in the county's tidal
wetlands; we are concerned mostly with mixed-vegetation fringe
marshes on relatively small freshwater tidal creeks.
 
The Board is often presented with applications for activities
(marinas, launching ramps) that we can expect to increase boat
traffic in a given area. We are searching for information that
might help us to answer the following question:
 
How can one determine, even approximately, the carrying capacity
(in recreational boats) of a given body of water? To put it another
way, How much boat traffic can a given body of water support before
it begins to suffer damage to wetlands and marine systems?
 
We know in a general way what consequences to expect. I don't mean
catastrophic events like fuel or sewage spills, although they are
certainly a concern. I mean more insidious, chronic effects like
increased wake battering of shorelines and vegetation, or the
effects of sediment resuspension on the marine environment.
 
We know that beyond a certain point we will start to get damage,
but we have little idea of how close to that point we are. We have
found very few studies that even attempt to deal with the question
- no wonder, really, since there is an immense number of variables:
stream width, bank geometry, soil and sediment types, vegetation
types, natural turbidity, spawning seasons, boating habits, hull
shapes, etc., etc.
 
Even with the few studies we have found that do relate to areas
similar to ours, it is hard to extrapolate because fine points of
the local situation can make huge differences. And we have found
no discussion at all of some very basic questions - specific plant
communities' susceptibility to damage from increased wakes, for
instance.
 
So it may be a foolish question, or perhaps I should say a futile
one. Nevertheless, if you have any suggestion about how I might
find more information on any aspect of it, I will be very grateful.
 
George L. Newman
P.O. Box 167
Hartwood, VA 22471
 
Voice/FAX:     703-752-5135
Email:         71552.541@compuserve.com
 
 




Article 890 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!biosci!VM.UOGUELPH.CA!UGG00005
From: UGG00005@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Nanfei Xu)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Tri- & tetra-cotyledons in dicots
Message-ID: <9302100732.AA02782@net.bio.net>
Date: 10 Feb 93 07:33:14 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 28

Hi, everyone:

     I posted a similar message early on this net.  It didn't spark any
discussion, all I received was one response.  I'm really curious about this
subject and need help from you.

     I'm studying alfalfa embryogenesis.  Alfalfa (Medicago sativa L.) is a
dicotyledonous plant.  However, there are quite a few tri- or tetra-
cotyledonous embryos from the plants I grow in growth chamber.  The ratio of
di-/(tri- + tetra-) is roughly 3:1 for all the plants with different amount of
fertilizer.  Does anybody out there know why there is tri- or tetra-cots on
dicots plant?  What is the evolutionary relationship of tri- or tetra-cots to
mono- and dicots if there is any?   In general, is tri- or tetra-cots derived
from the fusing of two early stage embryos, or is it from one zygote?  Is there
any description of developmental morphology?  Is this character inheritable?
Any discussion on the net or information to me is greatly appreciated.
Dear Sir or Madame:

******************************************************************************

Nanfei Xu                                 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 8347
Department of Botany
University of Guelph                      E-mail: UGG00005@VM.UOGUELPH.CA
Guelph, Ontario, Canada                                    or
N1G 2W1                                           BOTXU@VM.UOGUELPH.CA
******************************************************************************




Article 891 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!udel!news.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!daschaff
From: daschaff@chopin.udel.edu (Dennis A Schaff)
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Plant Molecular Biology Society Meeting
Message-ID: <C28Hw2.9sp@news.udel.edu>
Summary: Dates July 15 and 16, 1993
Keywords: MAPMBS
Sender: usenet@news.udel.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:09:37 GMT
Lines: 17

                     First Announcement for:

The 10th annual Mid-Atlantic Plant Molecular Biology Society (MAPMBS) 
meeting will be held July 15-16, 1993 at the University of Delaware.

For those of you not familiar with MAPMBS, it was founded in 1984 as a means
to ensure scientists in the Mid-Atlantic region of a high-quality,
accessible, and affordable plant molecular biology meeting each year.  The
society particularly wishes to encourage graduate student and postdoctoral
participation in presenting oral reports and posters, and contributing to
discussions.  It is our hope that the plant molecular biology community will
continue to support the MAPMBS as it has done in the past.

For additional information contact:  Dennis Schaff, Department of Plant and
Soils Sciences, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19717-1303. 
Phone (302)831-2534, FAX (302)831-3651 or E-mail daschaff@brahms.udel.edu



Article 892 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!POPGEN.BIOLOGY.UMT.EDU!tmo
From: tmo@POPGEN.BIOLOGY.UMT.EDU (Thomas Mitchell-Olds)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Flavr-savr tomato
Message-ID: <9302101519.AA01814@popgen.biology.umt.edu>
Date: 10 Feb 93 15:19:56 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 12


Dear Netters:

I want to lecture to my genetics class on Calgene's
flavr-savr tomato.  However, I can't remember the paper
where I read the details.  Can anyone suggest some useful
references?  Many thanks!

Tom Mitchell-Olds
University of Montana

tmo@selway.umt.edu


Article 893 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!UKCC.UKY.EDU!PPA006
From: PPA006@UKCC.UKY.EDU (arcady mushegian)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: hygromycin B
Message-ID: <9302101711.AA14582@net.bio.net>
Date: 10 Feb 93 17:07:59 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 4

Hi,
   I would appreciate indications on the cheapest source of solid Hygromycin B
                             Thanks in advance
                                              Arcady


Article 895 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!toxic!tyersome
From: tyersome@toxic (Randall Tyers)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Tri- & tetra-cotyledons in dicots
Date: 10 Feb 1993 19:04:32 GMT
Organization: Plant Biology
Lines: 37
Sender: tyersome@insect.berkeley.edu
Distribution: bionet
Message-ID: <1lbjk0$n6g@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <9302100732.AA02782@net.bio.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: toxic.berkeley.edu

In article <9302100732.AA02782@net.bio.net> UGG00005@VM.UOGUELPH.CA (Nanfei Xu)
writes:
>[...]
>     I'm studying alfalfa embryogenesis.  Alfalfa (Medicago sativa L.) is a
>dicotyledonous plant.  However, there are quite a few tri- or tetra-
>cotyledonous embryos from the plants I grow in growth chamber.  The ratio of
>di-/(tri- + tetra-) is roughly 3:1 for all the plants with different amount of
>fertilizer.  Does anybody out there know why there is tri- or tetra-cots on
>dicots plant?  What is the evolutionary relationship of tri- or tetra-cots to
>mono- and dicots if there is any?  

Your "Tri-/Tetra-cots" are still the same species of plant (alfalfa)which is a
member of the Order Dicotyledones.  Thus, I'm not sure that I understand
this question.

> In general, is tri- or tetra-cots derived
>from the fusing of two early stage embryos, or is it from one zygote? 

I know that many Gymnosperms have *many* cotyledons and this has nothing
to do with fusion so I would suspect that they come from one zygote.

> Is there
>any description of developmental morphology?  Is this character inheritable?
>Any discussion on the net or information to me is greatly appreciated.

A very useful persn for you to contact would be Dr. Kaplan.  He can be
reached at 510 642-4187 or 111 Koshland Hall, UC Berkeley, Berkeley CA
94720

>...
>Nanfei Xu                                 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 8347
>Department of Botany
>University of Guelph                      E-mail: UGG00005@VM.UOGUELPH.CA
>Guelph, Ontario, Canada                                    or
>N1G 2W1                                           BOTXU@VM.UOGUELPH.CA
 
Randall Tyers     tyersome@insect.berkeley.edu


Article 896 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!agate!biosci!CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU!preissj
From: preissj@CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU ("J Preiss--Seq Anal")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: re Hygromycin B, from Lenny B.
Message-ID: <9302110412.AA18526@net.bio.net>
Date: 11 Feb 93 04:09:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 15

Howdy

	I don't know the cheapest source of Hygromycin, but I can tell you 
how to cut your Hyg costs by 10 fold.  Just drop your concentration down
10 fold.  I tested the growth of Agro (LBA4301) on 523 medium for 1 week
and found that 1000 fold below published levels (20ug/ml) still completely
inhibits growth.  I then switched to 2ug/ml Hyg for my plant transformations
and have had no problem with Agro growth on 3 and 4 week old plates (which 
my student forgot to transfer).  Good Luck.

	Dr. Leonard N. Bloksberg
	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
	Dept. of Biochemistry
	Michigan State University



Article 897 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!rigel.tamu.edu!jlw2582
From: jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu (WHITSON, JOHN LEE)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Gibberelin inhibitors
Date: 11 Feb 1993 10:00 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <11FEB199310005261@rigel.tamu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
on?  i've been told that Gibberelic acid inhibitors work quite nicely,
but everyone (outside of the Hort dept at Texas A&M) that i've asked has
met my question with a blank stare.

Any ideas?

John Whitson
jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu



Article 898 of bionet.plants:
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From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.173518.21216@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 11 Feb 93 17:29:42 GMT
References: <93211163730.MIN-LJAAa09850.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

WHITSON, JOHN LEE (jlw2582@edu.tamu.rigel) wrote:
: Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
: on?  i've been told that Gibberelic acid inhibitors work quite nicely,
: but everyone (outside of the Hort dept at Texas A&M) that i've asked has
: met my question with a blank stare.
: 
: Any ideas?

How about Blue light ;-)

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 899 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!emory!gatech!udel!bogus.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!gondor.sdsu.edu!network.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!news.claremont.edu!jarthur.claremo

nt.edu!purves
From: purves@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Purves)
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.210023.4208@muddcs.claremont.edu>
Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
References: <11FEB199310005261@rigel.tamu.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 21:00:23 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <11FEB199310005261@rigel.tamu.edu> jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu (WHITSON, JOHN LEE) writes:
>Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
>on?  i've been told that Gibberelic acid inhibitors work quite nicely,
>but everyone (outside of the Hort dept at Texas A&M) that i've asked has
>met my question with a blank stare.
>
>John Whitson
>jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu

Your source was referring to inhibitors of gibberellin synthesis.
Compounds with names like AMO-1618, B-9, CCC, etc.  These will
"dwarf" many kinds of dicots, such as chrysanthemums.  They
result in reduced intermode length but normal size flowers.

(bill)

William K. Purves
Department of Biology
Harvey Mudd College
Claremont, CA 91711



Article 900 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!nec-gw!nec-tyo!wnoc-tyo-news!news.u-tokyo.ac.jp!s.u-tokyo!riksun!rknss1!rkna50!hughes
From: hughes@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Martin Hughes)
Subject: Internode Inhibition
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.072253.4626@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
Sender: hughes@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Martin Hughes)
Organization: Institute of Physical & Chemical Research (RIKEN) Saitama,Japan
Distribution: bionet
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 07:22:53 GMT
Lines: 46

>ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis) writes:

>>WHITSON, JOHN LEE (jlw2582@edu.tamu.rigel) wrote:
>>: Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
>>: on?  i've been told that Gibberelic acid inhibitors work quite nicely,
>>: but everyone (outside of the Hort dept at Texas A&M) that i've asked has
>>: met my question with a blank stare.
>>:
>>: Any ideas?

>How about Blue light ;-)

Well, after having "lurked" on this group since its inception, I
finally feel confident enough to comment on something - and
what is more to the point, in direct reply to something by the
Great Tony!!!

Firstly, to answer the guys question.  Yes, GA biosynthesis inhibitors
will work to decrease internode expansion.  Uniconazole or
Paclobutrazol will do the job for you.  (Uniconazole is from a
Japanese company-Sumi7 (a branch of Sumitomo - ICI sells
 Paclobutrazol, maybe under adifferent name).  Can be applied 
by spray, to the roots, or to seeds (with germinated radicles). Seeds
 can be soaked for 1h in1mM (Uniconazole), followed by washing
for 1h in water.  For further info (esp. for Paclobutrazol) see Plant
Physiol. (1992) 100: 651-654.

And, as Tony said so will blue light.

And this, I think is the interesting point.  Several other things will
also inhibit internode expansion.  Recently Frances et al. (Plant Cell
4: 1519-1530) noted the similar photomorphogenic phenotypes
of their light-independant developing pea mutant with previously
reported heat-shocked seedlings - in that both had (amongst
their characteristics) reduced internodes.  Additionally, leaves 
underwent development.  So, the question is, are all these causes
(GA inhibitors, phytochrome transduction pathways and heat
shock treatments) inter-related (and if so, to what level), or
do they all serve to "trigger" the same (series of) responses
in a trivial manner (after all, there are a limited number of things
a plant can do in response to a stimulus!)?  Any thoughts?

>        Tony.
Martin Hughes
Lab. Photoperception & Signal Transduction: Frontier Research:
RIKEN:


Article 901 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.140921.14630@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Feb 93 14:09:10 GMT
References: <9324235932.MIN-LVGBa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 30
Apparently-To: <plantbio@daresbury>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Euan R. Taylor (etaylor@ca.umanitoba.ccu) wrote:
: This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
: allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:

 +-- Position in Arbitron readership listing
 |      +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
 |      |     +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
 |      |     |     +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
 |      |     |     |      +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
 |      |     |     |      |      +-- Recent traffic (kilobytes per month)
 |      |     |     |      |      |      +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr
 V      V     V     V      V      V      V
					
1461   6600   175   35%    62   122.8    0.01   bionet.plants

Interestingly, the messages per month comes out at about two messages
per day posted to bionet.plants.  If you remember Jonathan Marder was
concerned that PHOTOSYN subscribers would not subscribe to
PLANTBIO/bionet.plants because of the (high) traffic on this group.

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 902 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: let's revive the group
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.142443.15333@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Feb 93 14:24:28 GMT
References: <9325225743.MIN-LBCAa05390.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

scolnipa@com.dupont.dnet.esvax wrote:
: 
: There seems to be a consensus that the development of leaves and 
: chloroplasts follow separate and independent pathways.  Some recent 
: observations in our lab, however, suggest that there is "cross-talk"
: between leaves and chloroplasts during development.  Any useful 
: observations out there?

There _is_ a hypothesis that chloroplasts evolved as endosymbionts and
retain vestiges of genetic autonomy but the close integration of their
photosynthetic role with the rest of the cell's metabolic activities in
differentiated, photosynthetically active cells makes it difficult to
believe that chloroplasts develop independantly of the cells containing
them.

Can you elaborate on the recent observations that you have made?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 903 of bionet.plants:
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From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Date: 12 Feb 1993 14:19:28 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
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X-XXDate: Fri, 12 Feb 93 09:19:44 GMT

In article <11FEB199310005261@rigel.tamu.edu> WHITSON,
jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu writes:
>Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
on?

Getting your hands on the plants will actually work well.  Gently
stroking the stem for a few seconds a day will shorten the internode. 
Internode length responds markedly to the temperature right after sunrise
(colder => shorter).

>I've been told that Gibberellic acid inhibitors work quite nicely.
There are quite a few commercial products used by the bedding plant
industry--these have been mentioned by other posters.  Note that B-Nine
is the same stuff as Alar (daminozide)--you may have trouble getting hold
of it.

So why do you want to shorten the internodes, and on what plant?  Your
answers to those questions may lead to some revised answers.


Article 904 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU!preissj
From: preissj@CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU ("J Preiss--Seq Anal")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: re tricots and tetracots
Message-ID: <9302121740.AA03513@net.bio.net>
Date: 12 Feb 93 17:36:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 20

I have seen the variable cotyledon syndrome quite a bit in tomato, and a 
little in other species.  Charlie Rick did some work to show that most 
multicots is tomato are just environmentally induced, and not heritable.
He can change the frequency of multicots with different growth conditions, 
as I recall, but nothing like an all or nothing response.  Just little 
increments.  Some of the multicots are heritable, however, and are associated
with abberant chromosome numbers.  Some of the tomato trisomics routinely 
have tricots.  These are heritable.  This can be an interesting phenomenon,
but most of my plant anatomy and evolution instructors in college just 
showed me stacks of cases of supposedely definative plant parts changing 
numbers (eg, petal number, leaflet number, ovary number, etc) and said that
plants are just plastic like that.  It was good enough for me then, but I
have always thaught this was an interesting question.  Hope this gives you
some ideas to work with.

	Dr. Leonard N. Bloksberg
	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
	Dept. of Biochemistry
	Michigan State University



Article 905 of bionet.plants:
Organization: Sponsored account, H&SS Dean's Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Path: samba!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mf0w+
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Message-ID: <UfTYzO_00WBME1_0pr@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1993 08:57:46 -0500 
From: Michel Fougeres <mf0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Help! Fungicide!
Lines: 11

I know this isn't the right newsgroup to post this question at but I can't
remember the name of the proper one and this is the one with the closest
name/subject.

Anyone have remedies for preventing fungus from growing on seeds when the 
seeds sprout?  My beans are being massacred in their little greenhouse by
some type of fungus.  Any products?  Home remedies?  Anything appreciated.

Thanks, Ian
(post an answer, don't email because this is a friend's account)



Article 906 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!adagio.panasonic.com!nntp-server.caltech.edu!news.claremont.edu!jarthur.claremont.edu!purves
From: purves@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Purves)
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb14.203455.14459@muddcs.claremont.edu>
Sender: news@muddcs.claremont.edu (The News System)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
References: <9324235932.MIN-LVGBa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Feb12.140921.14630@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1993 20:34:55 GMT
Lines: 30

>Euan R. Taylor (etaylor@ca.umanitoba.ccu) wrote:
>: This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
>: allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

And then Tony said:

>According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
>bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
>out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:

There is another aspect of newsgroup activity that may be less visible.
I'm not sure I've posted to this group more than once or twice, but
I not infrequently do an e-mail reply to a post.  I suspect this is
fairly common--one wants to follow up on something, or answer a
question, when it seems likely that either (a) the followup may not
be of general interest or (b) many people are likely to have the
answer to the same simple question and one doesn't want to eat up
the bandwidth.

This group seems healthy to me.  I certainly enjoy it.  I'd hate to
see it reach the activity level of, say, rec.music.classical -- that's
a very interesting newsgroup, but even with the -k command it eats
up a terrific amount of time    :-)

(bill)

William K. Purves		purves@jarthur.claremont.edu
Department of Biology
Harvey Mudd College		(909) 621-8021
Claremont, CA 91711


Article 907 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!burchil
From: burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Andrew Burchill)
Subject: Herbarium database programs, online, Unix, PC, Mac. Question.
Message-ID: <C2GFn7.In8@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Summary: Need info on Herbarium database programs.
Keywords: Herbarium IBM PC Apple Macintosh Unix
Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1993 20:01:54 GMT
Lines: 59


First off I would like to say thanks to everyone on this group for your
past input into my questions.

I am developeing a small herbarium database program for the Macintosh 
(in Hypercard) for one of the research stations at the University of Manitoba.
It has (will have) the following capabilities:
   Online user editible gazetteer.
   Online user editible list of families, that has a corrisponding list of
          genera associated with a selected family (this could be expanded
          to species as well).
   Map of Manitoba (Canada) for marking location of collection, automatic
          calculation of Lat and long if unknown from the position on the map.
   Fields for:
          Family, Genus, Species, Other(var, form, etc...) authorities,
          Notes, habitat, collected by, determined by, lat, long, date of
          collection.
   Will import and export ASCII text files.
   Will print appropriate sized herbarium labels, with map.

I would like to know if there are any commercial, PD, or shareware
herbarium record programs around.  If there are I would like to make sure
that my import and export routines are compatable.

Does any one know if there are any herbarium databases online (over the 
internet and free for access).  If there are could you point me in 
the appropriate direction.  I believe that it would be usefull to
put the manitoba herbarium on line but do not have any suggestions about
how to organize the database.  A Unix based program for this would be
prefered.

Lastly: If any one is interested in the herbarium front end that I am working
on please drop me a note and I will send you a copy.  The current front end
is dedicated for Manitoba Canada, but I would be willing to localize it. 
Any suggestions would be appreciated.  The manual is MS Word format, if 
this is a problem I can convert it to MacWrite, WriteNow, WordPerfect (mac or
PC), ASCII (without graphics).

I am no longer working in the Dept. of Botany but still have contacts there
and would still like to see our herbarium expand. If you have any information
that can not be sent to me via electronic mail it can be sent to the
adress below.
        
Thank you for your time.
cb

Charles A. Burchill.
Dept. of Community Health Science
Manitoba Center for Health Policy and Evaluation
T155E Old Basic Medical Science Bldg., Bannatyne Campus
University of Manitoba
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3T 2N2 

internet: <burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca> 
-- 
Charles A. Burchill                               ,__o 	   //    	      
<burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca>                      _-\_<,   / / 
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada       (*)/'(*)/  /  


Article 908 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!news
From: public@darkhorse.acf-lab.alaska.edu (UAF Public Account)
Subject: Re: Wetlands vs. boats
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.052409.27264@raven.alaska.edu>
Keywords: Wetlands
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: darkhorse.acf-lab.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
References: <930209053749_71552.541_DHG43-2@CompuServe.COM>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 05:24:09 GMT
Lines: 76

In article <930209053749_71552.541_DHG43-2@CompuServe.COM>  
71552.541@CompuServe.COM (Newman/Rabson) writes:
> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>  
> I am a CompuServe subscriber, hoping to correspond with Internet
> users via email. I am trying to locate individuals or interest
> groups concerned with wetlands; a fellow CompuServer "cruised" the
> Internet for me and suggested that I contact you.
>  
> I serve on the Wetlands Board of Stafford County, VA. Our Board is
> the local permitting authority for activities in the county's tidal
> wetlands; we are concerned mostly with mixed-vegetation fringe
> marshes on relatively small freshwater tidal creeks.
>  
> The Board is often presented with applications for activities
> (marinas, launching ramps) that we can expect to increase boat
> traffic in a given area. We are searching for information that
> might help us to answer the following question:
>  
> How can one determine, even approximately, the carrying capacity
> (in recreational boats) of a given body of water? To put it another
> way, How much boat traffic can a given body of water support before
> it begins to suffer damage to wetlands and marine systems?
>  
> We know in a general way what consequences to expect. I don't mean
> catastrophic events like fuel or sewage spills, although they are
> certainly a concern. I mean more insidious, chronic effects like
> increased wake battering of shorelines and vegetation, or the
> effects of sediment resuspension on the marine environment.
>  
> We know that beyond a certain point we will start to get damage,
> but we have little idea of how close to that point we are. We have
> found very few studies that even attempt to deal with the question
> - no wonder, really, since there is an immense number of variables:
> stream width, bank geometry, soil and sediment types, vegetation
> types, natural turbidity, spawning seasons, boating habits, hull
> shapes, etc., etc.
>  
> Even with the few studies we have found that do relate to areas
> similar to ours, it is hard to extrapolate because fine points of
> the local situation can make huge differences. And we have found
> no discussion at all of some very basic questions - specific plant
> communities' susceptibility to damage from increased wakes, for
> instance.
>  
> So it may be a foolish question, or perhaps I should say a futile
> one. Nevertheless, if you have any suggestion about how I might
> find more information on any aspect of it, I will be very grateful.
>  
> George L. Newman
> P.O. Box 167
> Hartwood, VA 22471
>  
> Voice/FAX:     703-752-5135
> Email:         71552.541@compuserve.com
>  
>  
> 
There SHOULD BE modelling studies done under Coastal Management Plan funds
and Coastal Energy Impact Program (CEIP) funds from NOAA, Dept. of  
Commerce, Corps of Engineers (related 404 dredge & fill permitting),
University of Delaware Environmnetal Engineering Dept. on Chesapeake Bay,
and other state universities along the Eastern Seaboard for the Inland  
Waterway. 

If not there may be some from San Francsisco Bay Conservation &  
Development Commission in SF, and the State Water Resource Council, and 
US Bureau of Reclamation or Bureau of Outdoor Recreation. Reference
Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta boat traffic impacts from boom in activity.

Failing that, a librarian or consulting firm could do research for you.
New electronic library searches via File Transfer Protocol, or even  
easier: The NAtional Archives' Electronic Document Office, and the 
U.S. Gov't Printing Office mega-BBSs.




Article 909 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stanford.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!biosci!daresbury!buzz.bmc.uu.se!corax.udac.uu.se!sunic!kixtal!bart.mic.ki.se!micjrs
From: micjrs@mica.mic.ki.se (Richard Soderberg, MD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Continuous light, is it ok?
Message-ID: <204@kixtal.UUCP>
Date: 15 Feb 93 09:15:27 GMT
Sender: news@kixtal.UUCP
Organization: The Karolinska Institute, Sweden
Lines: 8
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
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X-XXDate: Mon, 15 Feb 93 09:23:46 GMT

Is it possible to make a general statement about the effects of
*continous*
light applied to indoor plants? 
My goal is to increase the volume of green leaves, not the protein
contents etc.
(I'm gonna look at my flowers, not eat them!)
TIA
/RS


Article 910 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!news
From: wastec@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Centre For Waste Technology)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Plant distribution in Aussie
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.095918.9886@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 09:55:39 GMT
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 19
Original-To: plantbio@uk.ac.daresbury
Original-Cc: wastec@ZA.AC.UND.CC.Bertha
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Has Schoenoplectus triquestrus; syn. Scirpus triqueter been recorded for
Australia, Tasmania or New Zealand as an introduction.? 

Am working on the distribution in South Africa of species of the genus
Schoenoplectus and wish to know if certain species have been introduced
to this country and to others in the southern hemisphere

##################################################################

J. Browning
Botany Department
University of Natal
Box 375
Pietermaritzburg 3200
South Africa

e mail wastec@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za

########################################################################


Article 911 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rutgers!gvls1!udel!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.113349.13686@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 11:30:22 GMT
References: <93213125353.MIN-LPBAa13302.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Thomas Bjorkman (Thomas_Bjorkman@edu.cornell) wrote:
: In article <11FEB199310005261@rigel.tamu.edu> WHITSON,
: jlw2582@rigel.tamu.edu writes:
: >Does anyone know of an internode-length reducer that i can get my hands
: on?
: 
: Getting your hands on the plants will actually work well.  Gently
: stroking the stem for a few seconds a day will shorten the internode. 
: Internode length responds markedly to the temperature right after sunrise
: (colder => shorter).

Is the plant responding to a mechanical stimulus here, or is it eg.
temperature (from the hands) or damage to the hairs on the surface and
consequent changes is the thickness of the boundary layer ?

Or, is it perhaps a chemical transferred from your green fingers ? ;-)

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 912 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Internode Inhibition
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.121615.15535@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 12:09:47 GMT
References: <93213121851.MIN-LBAAa11812.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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Apparently-To: <plantbio@daresbury>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Martin Hughes (hughes@jp.go.riken.rkna50) wrote:
: [...]
: Well, after having "lurked" on this group since its inception, I
: finally feel confident enough to comment on something - and
: what is more to the point, in direct reply to something by the
: Great Tony!!!

Arf, arf!

Seriously, though: this group is what we make it, so don't hesitate to
post interesting/informative/funny articles about your work.

I'm an agricultural botany graduate, and I got my PhD in 1981 after
working for five years in Terry Mansfield's lab at Lancaster (UK) on
the ion-transport mechanism in stomatal guard cells.

Several interesting post-docs later (one of which took me into image
analysis) I work on the relationship between anatomical features and
nutritive value in forages and crops used to feed ruminants.

: Firstly, to answer the guys question.  Yes, GA biosynthesis inhibitors
: will work to decrease internode expansion.  Uniconazole or
: Paclobutrazol will do the job for you.  (Uniconazole is from a
: Japanese company-Sumi7 (a branch of Sumitomo - ICI sells
:  Paclobutrazol, maybe under adifferent name).  Can be applied 
: by spray, to the roots, or to seeds (with germinated radicles). Seeds
:  can be soaked for 1h in1mM (Uniconazole), followed by washing
: for 1h in water.  For further info (esp. for Paclobutrazol) see Plant
: Physiol. (1992) 100: 651-654.
: 
: And, as Tony said so will blue light.
: 
: And this, I think is the interesting point.  Several other things will
: also inhibit internode expansion.  Recently Frances et al. (Plant Cell
: 4: 1519-1530) noted the similar photomorphogenic phenotypes
: of their light-independant developing pea mutant with previously
: reported heat-shocked seedlings - in that both had (amongst
: their characteristics) reduced internodes.  Additionally, leaves 
: underwent development.  So, the question is, are all these causes
: (GA inhibitors, phytochrome transduction pathways and heat
: shock treatments) inter-related (and if so, to what level), or
: do they all serve to "trigger" the same (series of) responses
: in a trivial manner (after all, there are a limited number of things
: a plant can do in response to a stimulus!)?  Any thoughts?

I don't believe blue light is always a 'trigger' - I believe blue light
may also act directly on the ion-transport mechanism itself.

For example, if only 1% of the blue photons incident on the surface of
a guard cell are intercepted by pigments in an electron-transport chain
then the ion-transport mechanism (K+ influx) responsible for stomatal
movements could be driven directly (Travis, A.J. and Mansfield, T.A.,
1981, Light saturation of stomatal opening on the adaxial and abaxial
epidermis of Commelina communis, Journal of Experimental Botany, 32,
1169-1179).

The common factor in many plant responses to shock/hormones/etc. is the
effect these agents have on the cell membrane and transport processes
associated with it.  Low temperature treatment, for example, is known
to make cell membranes 'leaky' and so the cells lose electrolytes.  I'm
interested to know if mechanical stress has a similar gross effect on
membrane integrity in relation to 'hardening' of seedlings by brushing
prior to transplanting or handling generally.

In particular I'm interested to know if the changes in the plasticity
of cell walls associated with 'shortening' (actually, it's a reduction
in growth - the internodes don't get shorter: they grow less!) is in
any way related to the polymerisation of lignin precursors?  If it is,
then what is the underlying mechanism by which plants respond to
mechanical stimuli?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 912 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Internode Inhibition
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.121615.15535@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 12:09:47 GMT
References: <93213121851.MIN-LBAAa11812.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
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Lines: 77
Apparently-To: <plantbio@daresbury>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Martin Hughes (hughes@jp.go.riken.rkna50) wrote:
: [...]
: Well, after having "lurked" on this group since its inception, I
: finally feel confident enough to comment on something - and
: what is more to the point, in direct reply to something by the
: Great Tony!!!

Arf, arf!

Seriously, though: this group is what we make it, so don't hesitate to
post interesting/informative/funny articles about your work.

I'm an agricultural botany graduate, and I got my PhD in 1981 after
working for five years in Terry Mansfield's lab at Lancaster (UK) on
the ion-transport mechanism in stomatal guard cells.

Several interesting post-docs later (one of which took me into image
analysis) I work on the relationship between anatomical features and
nutritive value in forages and crops used to feed ruminants.

: Firstly, to answer the guys question.  Yes, GA biosynthesis inhibitors
: will work to decrease internode expansion.  Uniconazole or
: Paclobutrazol will do the job for you.  (Uniconazole is from a
: Japanese company-Sumi7 (a branch of Sumitomo - ICI sells
:  Paclobutrazol, maybe under adifferent name).  Can be applied 
: by spray, to the roots, or to seeds (with germinated radicles). Seeds
:  can be soaked for 1h in1mM (Uniconazole), followed by washing
: for 1h in water.  For further info (esp. for Paclobutrazol) see Plant
: Physiol. (1992) 100: 651-654.
: 
: And, as Tony said so will blue light.
: 
: And this, I think is the interesting point.  Several other things will
: also inhibit internode expansion.  Recently Frances et al. (Plant Cell
: 4: 1519-1530) noted the similar photomorphogenic phenotypes
: of their light-independant developing pea mutant with previously
: reported heat-shocked seedlings - in that both had (amongst
: their characteristics) reduced internodes.  Additionally, leaves 
: underwent development.  So, the question is, are all these causes
: (GA inhibitors, phytochrome transduction pathways and heat
: shock treatments) inter-related (and if so, to what level), or
: do they all serve to "trigger" the same (series of) responses
: in a trivial manner (after all, there are a limited number of things
: a plant can do in response to a stimulus!)?  Any thoughts?

I don't believe blue light is always a 'trigger' - I believe blue light
may also act directly on the ion-transport mechanism itself.

For example, if only 1% of the blue photons incident on the surface of
a guard cell are intercepted by pigments in an electron-transport chain
then the ion-transport mechanism (K+ influx) responsible for stomatal
movements could be driven directly (Travis, A.J. and Mansfield, T.A.,
1981, Light saturation of stomatal opening on the adaxial and abaxial
epidermis of Commelina communis, Journal of Experimental Botany, 32,
1169-1179).

The common factor in many plant responses to shock/hormones/etc. is the
effect these agents have on the cell membrane and transport processes
associated with it.  Low temperature treatment, for example, is known
to make cell membranes 'leaky' and so the cells lose electrolytes.  I'm
interested to know if mechanical stress has a similar gross effect on
membrane integrity in relation to 'hardening' of seedlings by brushing
prior to transplanting or handling generally.

In particular I'm interested to know if the changes in the plasticity
of cell walls associated with 'shortening' (actually, it's a reduction
in growth - the internodes don't get shorter: they grow less!) is in
any way related to the polymerisation of lignin precursors?  If it is,
then what is the underlying mechanism by which plants respond to
mechanical stimuli?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 913 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!caen!batcomputer!cornell!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Date: 15 Feb 1993 14:42:02 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
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X-XXDate: Mon, 15 Feb 93 09:42:26 GMT

In article <1993Feb15.113349.13686@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Tony Travis,
ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>Is the plant responding to a mechanical stimulus here, or is it eg.
>temperature (from the hands) or damage to the hairs on the surface and
>consequent changes is the thickness of the boundary layer ?
>
>Or, is it perhaps a chemical transferred from your green fingers ? ;-)

It is the mechanical stimulus.  The most familiar example is probably the
curling of pea tendrils when they contact a support.  However, stems are
also quite sensitive.  Mark Jaffe and Cary Mitchell have been working
quietly on this for decades.  A few years ago Janet Braam was identifying
genes turned on (in Arabidopsis) by spraying various compounds on the
plants. .She found the same genes turning on regardless waht she
sprayed--even water.  It turned out to be the same mechanical stimulus. 
Both the growth response and the mRNA accumulation are fast--a few
minutes.


Article 914 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Gibberelin inhibitors
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.173832.28738@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 17:38:15 GMT
References: <93215154727.MIN-LHGAa09061.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Thomas Bjorkman (Thomas_Bjorkman@edu.cornell) wrote:
: In article <1993Feb15.113349.13686@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Tony Travis,
: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
: >Is the plant responding to a mechanical stimulus here, or is it eg.
: >temperature (from the hands) or damage to the hairs on the surface and
: >consequent changes is the thickness of the boundary layer ?
: >
: >Or, is it perhaps a chemical transferred from your green fingers ? ;-)
: 
: It is the mechanical stimulus.  The most familiar example is probably the
: curling of pea tendrils when they contact a support.  However, stems are

What is the nature of the plant's sensitivity to the mechanical stimulus?

Presumably growth on the contact side of the stem/tendril is inhibited?

: also quite sensitive.  Mark Jaffe and Cary Mitchell have been working
: quietly on this for decades.  A few years ago Janet Braam was identifying
: genes turned on (in Arabidopsis) by spraying various compounds on the
: plants. .She found the same genes turning on regardless waht she
: sprayed--even water.  It turned out to be the same mechanical stimulus. 
: Both the growth response and the mRNA accumulation are fast--a few
: minutes.

I remember the work on calmodulin you mentioned from a previous
discussion on bionet.plants about responses to mechanical stimuli. My
interest in this topic concerns the differences between weak-strawed
and stiff-strawed crop varieties in relation to yield, nutritional
value and susceptibility to lodging.

Do you think is would be a practical proposition to select varieties
that are able to _adapt_ to mechanical stress?  If so, the partitioning
of assimilates into vascular tissue that I believe is an important
factor in reducing the yield of stiff-strawed varieties could be
avoided without the risk of losing the entire crop because of lodging
as often occurs in higher yielding weak-strawed varieties.

	Tony.




-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 915 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!emory!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!johnreed
From: johnreed@stein.u.washington.edu (John Reed)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Help! Fungicide!
Date: 15 Feb 1993 18:39:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 12
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References: <UfTYzO_00WBME1_0pr@andrew.cmu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu



Try soaking them in diluted bleach for about five minutes before planting
them.  You might also try autoclaving the soil, unless it is already sterile.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reed
College of Forest Resources, AR-10
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Internet: johnreed@u.washington.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 916 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!mizar.cc.umanitoba.ca!frist
From: frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca ()
Subject: Re: Flavr-savr tomato
Message-ID: <C2I7Ev.2n5@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Sender: news@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: spock.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
References: <9302101519.AA01814@popgen.biology.umt.edu>
Distribution: bionet
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 18:59:18 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <9302101519.AA01814@popgen.biology.umt.edu> tmo@POPGEN.BIOLOGY.UMT.EDU (Thomas Mitchell-Olds) writes:
>
>Dear Netters:
>
>I want to lecture to my genetics class on Calgene's
>flavr-savr tomato.  However, I can't remember the paper
>where I read the details.  Can anyone suggest some useful
>references?  Many thanks!
>
>Tom Mitchell-Olds
>University of Montana
>
>tmo@selway.umt.edu

I don't know whether they have ever formally published the details of their
work. However, I can cite a couple of recent articles on the subject:

Gray et al. (1992) Molecular biology of fruit ripening and its manipulation
with antisense genes. Plant. Mol. Biol. 19:69-87. (review article)

Tieman et al. (1992) An antisense pectin methylesterase gene alters pectin
chemistry and soluble solids in tomato fruit. Plant Cell 4:667-679.

Neither of these papers is from Calgene. As one might expect many groups
appear to be pursuing similar strategies.

===============================================================================
Brian Fristensky                | 
Department of Plant Science     |  Six days shall thou work, 
University of Manitoba          |  and do all thou art able
Winnipeg, MB R3T 2N2  CANADA    |  The seventh the same 
frist@ccu.umanitoba.ca          |  and clean out the stable
Office phone:   204-474-6085    | 
FAX:            204-261-5732    |
===============================================================================


Article 917 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!rpi!utcsri!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!aa365
From: aa365@Freenet.carleton.ca (Kenneth Werk)
Subject: Feeding pumpkins directly through phloem
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.192753.7502@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: aa365@Freenet.carleton.ca (Kenneth Werk)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 19:27:53 GMT
Lines: 13


Does anyone have information on whether it is possible to feed a pumpkin
fruit nutrients or sugars directly through its stem? 

Thanks

Ken



Article 918 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!not-for-mail
From: smith-una@yale.edu (Una Smith)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Date: 15 Feb 1993 15:40:16 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Lines: 36
Distribution: bionet
Message-ID: <1lov3gINNjml@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>
References: <9324235932.MIN-LVGBa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Feb12.140921.14630@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
Summary: Do you mean there isn't enough traffic for you?

Euan R. Taylor (etaylor@ca.umanitoba.ccu) wrote:

>: This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
>: allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

There are quite a few alternatives:  the sci.bio newsgroup has been
unusually interesting lately, and there are various mailing lists,
particularly TAXACOM and PHOTOSYN.  And both of those lists have
personal e-mail directories, which encourages biologists to write
to one another directly.  Also, the ECOLOG-L mailing list has about
800 subscribers, according to the list owner, and I would guess that
more than half of those are plant ecologists.

ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:

>According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
>bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
>out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:

First off, I'd say ignore the estimated total readership.  For various
reasons it is likely to be way off.  The arbitron system reports data
only for those sites where someone bothers to run the reporting program,
so there are big distributional biases and a lot of error.  The number
of people "caught" may well include those unfortunate novices who use
a Usenet reader configured to automatically subscribe to *all* newsgroups
and who get confused and discouraged the first time and never look at
Usenet again.

On the other hand, these figures do not take into account the number
of e-mail subscribers to bionet.plants.

-- 

      Una Smith      Biology Department       smith-una@yale.edu
                     Yale University
                     New Haven, CT  06511


Article 919 of bionet.plants:
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From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Internode inhibition
Date: 15 Feb 1993 20:48:47 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 43
Sender: tnb1@cornell.edu (Verified)
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X-XXDate: Mon, 15 Feb 93 15:48:48 GMT

In article <1993Feb15.173832.28738@gserv1.dl.ac.uk> Tony Travis,
ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
>My interest in this topic concerns the differences between weak-strawed
>and stiff-strawed crop varieties in relation to yield, nutritional
>value and susceptibility to lodging.
>
>Do you think is would be a practical proposition to select varieties
>that are able to _adapt_ to mechanical stress?  If so, the partitioning
>of assimilates into vascular tissue that I believe is an important
>factor in reducing the yield of stiff-strawed varieties could be
>avoided without the risk of losing the entire crop because of lodging
>as often occurs in higher yielding weak-strawed varieties.

The pea tendrils curve the same way whatever the direction of the
stimulus--it is a nastic movement.  The curvatrue is set in  the
structure of the tissue, the mechanical stimulus triggers it but provides
no directional information.

Regarding lodging in grains, I am not sure that the mechanical adaptation
would be effective.  The stiffening would have to occur suring stem
elongation to accomodate a stress occurring much later during seed fill. 
Therefore the plant would have to make the stem stiff enough for some
future condition, and one might as well put it in the constitutive
program.  Having the growing point at the bottom could be a problem, but
I wonder aht would happen if one were to start flexing the stem a little
each day starting at the boot stage.  Seems easy enough to try.

Now that I've shown how little I appreciate the subtleties of your
research, I'll tell you about a similar case that does seem to work.  I
am working with tomato transplants that are grown about 10 mm on center. 
They get crowded and elongate for the usual reasons.  The stems are not
very strong since they are supporting eachother, so that on transplanting
in the field, they do break off fairly easily.  Stroking the canopy slows
the growth by about 20% and makes the stems somewhat tougher.  The stems
are also slightly thinner and the leaf area is smaller than the controls.
 However, putting up an impediment for the plants to push against for a
few hours a day makes the stems tougher and thicker without reducing the
leaf area.  Apparently the stimuli are interpreted differently.  

One question I am actually doing research on is how the tomato interprets
different kinds of petting. :-).  If only William Proxmire were still in
the Senate, I'd be a shoo-in for the Golden Fleece award--even though
this is a money issue for on American industry.


Article 920 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!PEARL.TUFTS.EDU!GELLMORE
From: GELLMORE@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU (BIOHEAD)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Pachy-pumpkins
Message-ID: <01GURAP8RNRK8WWSO9@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Date: 15 Feb 93 20:58:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 17

Ken, feeding pumpkins is a local pastime around northern suburbs of Boston.
Every October, there are "hefty" prizes awarded at the Topsfield Fair
to the heaviest pumpkin to weigh in. Last year's winner weighed more
than 630 lbs!! 

I have talked with friends of people who nurture these pumpkins, and have
been told that the fruit are fed MILK into their pedicels as they grow.
I have not seen this done, just heard about it 2nd hand, but on several
occasions. It may be a bucolic ruse, or in fact a viable practice.

Any other State Fair fans heard about this botanical analog to foie-gras?

                                     George Ellmroe
                                            Ellmore
                                     Biology Dept.
                                     Tufts Univ.
                                     Medford MA


Article 921 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb15.235759.13065@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Feb 93 23:56:40 GMT
References: <93215204733.MIN-LLIAa09061.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 27
Apparently-To: plantbio@daresbury
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Una Smith (smith-una@edu.yale) wrote:
: [...]
: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:
: 
: >According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
: >bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
: >out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:
: 
: First off, I'd say ignore the estimated total readership.  For various
: reasons it is likely to be way off.  The arbitron system reports data
: [...]

I thought the sarcastic tone of my message was self-evident, Una ;-(

Yes, I agree arbitron results are misleading: but you posted them and I
simply quoted what was of interest to this group.  I read this group by
email and I'm sure I am not alone ...

What was your intention in posting the arbitron ratings to
bionet.general and then demolishing my (light hearted) use of them?

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 918 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!not-for-mail
From: smith-una@yale.edu (Una Smith)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Followup-To: bionet.plants
Date: 15 Feb 1993 15:40:16 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Lines: 36
Distribution: bionet
Message-ID: <1lov3gINNjml@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>
References: <9324235932.MIN-LVGBa03968.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Feb12.140921.14630@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
Summary: Do you mean there isn't enough traffic for you?

Euan R. Taylor (etaylor@ca.umanitoba.ccu) wrote:

>: This newsgroup seems to be in very poor health, are plant scientists
>: allergic to computers? or are there just not many of us around?

There are quite a few alternatives:  the sci.bio newsgroup has been
unusually interesting lately, and there are various mailing lists,
particularly TAXACOM and PHOTOSYN.  And both of those lists have
personal e-mail directories, which encourages biologists to write
to one another directly.  Also, the ECOLOG-L mailing list has about
800 subscribers, according to the list owner, and I would guess that
more than half of those are plant ecologists.

ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk writes:

>According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
>bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
>out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:

First off, I'd say ignore the estimated total readership.  For various
reasons it is likely to be way off.  The arbitron system reports data
only for those sites where someone bothers to run the reporting program,
so there are big distributional biases and a lot of error.  The number
of people "caught" may well include those unfortunate novices who use
a Usenet reader configured to automatically subscribe to *all* newsgroups
and who get confused and discouraged the first time and never look at
Usenet again.

On the other hand, these figures do not take into account the number
of e-mail subscribers to bionet.plants.

-- 

      Una Smith      Biology Department       smith-una@yale.edu
                     Yale University
                     New Haven, CT  06511


Article 922 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!biosci!CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU!preissj
From: preissj@CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU ("J Preiss--Seq Anal")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: re Help Fungus   :-(
Message-ID: <9302160320.AA18750@net.bio.net>
Date: 16 Feb 93 03:14:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 28


Hi Ian

	Well, my favorite remedy is Captan, but many people like Thyram
these days.  I always dust all my seed samples with dry captan.  Just dump
enough into the pa
enough into the envelope so that after shaking things aroung (in a well 
ventilated space) there is a small residual that drops to the bottom of
the packet.  In addition, if more is required, I use a soil drench (mixed
according to the directions).  It is important to use the drench as a 
pre-emptive measure when you know it will be needed.  I rarely have better
than a 10% survival rate after I see symptoms.  The reason I prefer Captan
is because you can use it as a soil drench as well as a seed treatment. 
Thyram is only a seed treatment, and then you need to buy the Captan for
a soil drench also.  Hope this helps.

	Lenny Bloksberg
	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
	Michigan State University

ps To give you an idea of the intense need for control of fungus here in 
Lansing MI, I will tell you a common expression that the locals use here.
"It will be a sunny day in Lansing before I do that again"  :-}


		Good Luck    ---<--@   




Article 923 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!not-for-mail
From: smith-una@yale.edu (Una Smith)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Date: 15 Feb 1993 22:58:14 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Lines: 46
Distribution: bionet
Message-ID: <1lpoomINNj0q@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>
References: <93215204733.MIN-LLIAa09061.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Feb15.235759.13065@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

Tony Travis <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk> wrote:

>: >According to the arbitron summary posted recently by Una Smith in
>: >bionet.general 175 people were caught actually reading bionet.plants
>: >out of an estimated 6600 who are suspected of doing so:


I replied:

>: First off, I'd say ignore the estimated total readership.  For various
>: reasons it is likely to be way off.  The arbitron system reports data
>: [...]


Tony replied back:

>I thought the sarcastic tone of my message was self-evident, Una ;-(
>[...]
>What was your intention in posting the arbitron ratings to
>bionet.general and then demolishing my (light hearted) use of them?

Tony, you're reading much more into this than I intended. Although
I caught (oops :-) your sarcasm, I thought you were being sarcastic
about "reading bionet.plants", not the number "6600", given that you
offered the statistic of 175 "actual" readers to the person who seems
to think the group is suffering from narcolepsy?  (Isn't "asleep" a
nicer way of putting it than "dull"?)  Anyway, I reported the arbitron
stats in bionet.general, but I neglected to mention the companion
report that discusses sources of error, so since you touched on the
issue, I thought it worth mentioning some of them.  That's all!

I like bionet.plants, by the way.  Perhaps you were miffed by the
list of alteratives to bionet.plants that I gave, which you edited
out of your reply?  I should say I mentioned them as a rejoinder to
the original question about botanists not liking to use computers,
not as "better" alternatives to bionet.plants.  There are lots of
us, but there are also lots of ways to spend any personal e-mail or
Usenet quota, and we can't all be active here.  Subscribe to all
those mailing lists together, and you'll have more stuff in your
mailbox than you can stand to read!

-- 

      Una Smith      Biology Department       smith-una@yale.edu
                     Yale University
                     New Haven, CT  06511


Article 924 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU!preissj
From: preissj@CLVAX1.CL.MSU.EDU ("J Preiss--Seq Anal")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: re Flavr-savr tomato
Message-ID: <9302160444.AA21167@net.bio.net>
Date: 16 Feb 93 04:36:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 13


As I recall, the flavr-savr tomato was made by putting the polygalacturonase
gene into one of the RIN or NOR or NR ripening mutants.  I think it was NR.
They used the PG gene from the paper by Della-Penna and Alexander PNAS 1986
I think.  I could be wrong, but I have spoken to several people from Calgene,
and I know they told me that this is how they made some of the early varieties.

	Hope this helps

	Lenny Bloksberg
	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu




Article 925 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!krypton.mankato.msus.edu!lebowitz
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: agrobacterium pictures
Message-ID: <1993Feb16.092918.2458@msus1.msus.edu>
From: lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Robert J. Lebowitz)
Date: 16 Feb 93 09:29:17 -0600
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Mankato State University
Nntp-Posting-Host: krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Lines: 16

I'm in the finishing phases of writing a book on plant biotechnology.
One of the last details I have to deal with involves the illustrations
for the various chapters.  I am presently looking for a nice, ugly crown
gall on any dicot plant to include in the book.  I am also looking for a
nice picture of a typical wild-type Ti plasmid that identifies some of
the more important portions of the plasmid, such as the T-DNA, the
virulence genes region, the opine synthase and catabolism genes, etc.
If you have a stock drawing or photo of these, I'd appreciate a copy.
We'll acknowledge you under the illustration as the contributor in
return for your effort.  

Thanks.... Rob 
-- 
Robert J. Lebowitz           Internet         lebowitz@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University     VOX              (507) 389-2540
Mankato MN 56002-8400


Article 926 of bionet.plants:
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Path: samba!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!rgonzale
From: rgonzale@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Rico A Gonzalez)
Subject: Whole Plant Research Equipment - What Do You Recommend?
Message-ID: <1993Feb16.161853.25069@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 16:18:53 GMT
Lines: 40

I am in the process of setting of a whole plant physiology lab and
could really use some input on equipment selection.  I have had
some experience with certain types of equipment but would
appreciate comments and opinions on vendors and specific models.

Please reply to me directly (r) through email and THANKS, in
advance.

Here's what I am looking for:

Pressure Bomb -     I have used the Model 3005 from Soilmoisture
                    Equipment.  It is adequate and relatively
                    inexpensive.  What else is available.

CO2 Analyzer -      My experience is with an old ADC Machine,
                    Model LCA-2 with a data logger.  This is a
                    very expensive piece of equipment and I would
                    like to know what my options are.

Control Equipment   I have used Campbell Scientific as the basis
                    for all of my field control equipment. 
                    Although the equipment is dependable, I find
                    the limited instruction set and control
                    outputs on the CR10 and the 21X to be a
                    negative.  Does anyone have experience with
                    better equipment?

Image Analyzer -    My research has been directed toward the
                    analysis of root area and length using the
                    Dias II by Decagon Devices Inc.  Is there
                    other equipment which has more flexibility and
                    perhaps finer resolution?



By the way, I will gladly supply the details on any of the
equipment mentioned above to anyone interested.  All replies are
greatly appreciated.

Rico Gonzalez (rgonzale@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)


Article 927 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!gatech!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umd5!williams.smcm.edu!bwilliam
From: bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu (Bill Williams)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Continuous light, is it ok?
Message-ID: <18504@umd5.umd.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 93 17:35:39 GMT
References: <204@kixtal.UUCP>
Sender: news@umd5.umd.edu
Organization: St. Mary's College of Maryland
Lines: 19
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7A6910FC90101D2@williams.smcm.edu>
X-XXDate: Tue, 16 Feb 93 17:39:43 GMT

In article <204@kixtal.UUCP> Richard Soderberg, micjrs@mica.mic.ki.se
writes:
>Is it possible to make a general statement about the effects of
>*continous*
>light applied to indoor plants? 
>My goal is to increase the volume of green leaves, not the protein
>contents etc.
>(I'm gonna look at my flowers, not eat them!)

In a word, no.  Some plants seem to do just fine on a regime of
continuous light, while others (tomatoes come to mind) seem to have a
hard time of it in such a regime.  Most plants in my experience are NOT
like tomatoes, and so the best guess is probably that it's all right. 
Try it and watch 'em!
___________________________________
William E. Williams, bwilliam@oyster.smcm.edu
Divison of Natural Sciences and Mathematics
St. Mary's College of Maryland
St. Mary's City, MD 20686


Article 928 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!YOKO.RUTGERS.EDU!minnam
From: minnam@YOKO.RUTGERS.EDU (Minnam Sivananda)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Seventeenth Annual Homegardeners School
Message-ID: <Feb.15.14.42.07.1993.29240@yoko.rutgers.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 93 19:42:07 GMT
Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 32



	Seventeenth Annual Home Gardeners School

	Spring Session Starts from Saturday March 27,1993

	Sponsored by :
		Rutgers-The State University of New Jersey
		Cook College
		Rutgers Cooperative extension


The Seventeenth Annual Spring Homegardeners School, scheduled for Saturday, March 27 , 1993 will be located in the Loree Building, Cook Campus, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, New Jersey. This Program is co-sponsored by Cook College Office of Continuin

g Professional Education and Rutgers Cooperative Extension.

Experienced gardners as well as beginner gardeners are encouraged to attend. Participants may choose among 24 classes and workshops, including 4 new sessions. New Topics are "Planting Unusual Shrubs & Trees for the Home Landscape", "Weeping Plants - A gal

lery of garden Gems", "Backyard Aquaculture", and "Grass seed Selection". Classes are offered for both the beginner to the advanced gardener.

Presenters include Rutgers Faculty as well as industry professionals.

Participants may enroll upto five classes. The registration fee is $18, regardless of the number of sessions you register for. A box lunch is available for an additional $6.

For more information or to register:

Send email to : Czesak@gandalf.rutgers.edu
		
or  mail to: Office of Continuing Professional Education
	     P.O  Box 231
		New Brunswick NJ-08903-0231

or call : Jill Braun at (908)932-9271

 	



Article 928 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!YOKO.RUTGERS.EDU!minnam
From: minnam@YOKO.RUTGERS.EDU (Minnam Sivananda)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Seventeenth Annual Homegardeners School
Message-ID: <Feb.15.14.42.07.1993.29240@yoko.rutgers.edu>
Date: 15 Feb 93 19:42:07 GMT
Sender: kristoff@net.bio.net
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 32



	Seventeenth Annual Home Gardeners School

	Spring Session Starts from Saturday March 27,1993

	Sponsored by :
		Rutgers-The State University of New Jersey
		Cook College
		Rutgers Cooperative extension


The Seventeenth Annual Spring Homegardeners School, scheduled for Saturday, March 27 , 1993 will be located in the Loree Building, Cook Campus, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, New Jersey. This Program is co-sponsored by Cook College Office of Continuin

g Professional Education and Rutgers Cooperative Extension.

Experienced gardners as well as beginner gardeners are encouraged to attend. Participants may choose among 24 classes and workshops, including 4 new sessions. New Topics are "Planting Unusual Shrubs & Trees for the Home Landscape", "Weeping Plants - A gal

lery of garden Gems", "Backyard Aquaculture", and "Grass seed Selection". Classes are offered for both the beginner to the advanced gardener.

Presenters include Rutgers Faculty as well as industry professionals.

Participants may enroll upto five classes. The registration fee is $18, regardless of the number of sessions you register for. A box lunch is available for an additional $6.

For more information or to register:

Send email to : Czesak@gandalf.rutgers.edu
		
or  mail to: Office of Continuing Professional Education
	     P.O  Box 231
		New Brunswick NJ-08903-0231

or call : Jill Braun at (908)932-9271

 	



Article 929 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!daresbury!daresbury!ajt
From: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk (Tony Travis)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: is this group ill?
Message-ID: <1993Feb16.230535.23036@gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Date: 16 Feb 93 22:51:25 GMT
References: <93216040935.MIN-LTNAa09061.bionet-news@uk.ac.daresbury>
Sender: list-admin@daresbury.ac.uk
Reply-To: ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk
Distribution: bionet
Organization: Rowett Research Institute
Lines: 41
Apparently-To: plantbio@daresbury
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Una Smith (smith-una@edu.yale) wrote:
: [...]
: I like bionet.plants, by the way.  Perhaps you were miffed by the
: list of alteratives to bionet.plants that I gave, which you edited
: out of your reply?  I should say I mentioned them as a rejoinder to

I'm glad you like it Una and I'm not easily miffed ;-)

I'm interested in any other botanical email/news groups that are
available and I didn't 'edit out' the alternatives you gave, I just put
the arbitron result in because it was of interest and relevant to
Jonathan's remarks about the PHOTOSYN subscribers reluctance to
subscribe to an 'active' group ...

: the original question about botanists not liking to use computers,
: not as "better" alternatives to bionet.plants.  There are lots of
: us, but there are also lots of ways to spend any personal e-mail or
: Usenet quota, and we can't all be active here.  Subscribe to all
: those mailing lists together, and you'll have more stuff in your
: mailbox than you can stand to read!

I really hate to drone on about this on bionet.plants again, but if you
pool your resources and subscribe _one_ user to the lists you are
interested in you can share them with all the other users at your site
*without* filling your mailbox or using up your quota!

Either use public mail folders, or use mail2news to post the articles
locally.  You don't have to be a sysadm to do this (but it helps).

I'm reading this on my PC at home, in the evening, and you are right I
would have more stuff than I could stand to read *if* it was in my
mailbox.  But, it isn't - it is in a shared news spool directory and I'm
reading it with "tin".  The only user here who subscribes to BIOSCI is
news@rri.sari.ac.uk.  Everyone else reads it selectively as news.

	Tony.
-- 
Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt@uk.ac.sari.rri>
Rowett Research Institute,            |  other: <ajt@rri.sari.ac.uk>
Greenburn Road, Bucksburn,            |  phone: +44 (0)224 712751
Aberdeen, AB2 9SB. UK.                |    fax: +44 (0)224 715349


Article 930 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!agate!biosci!MAIL.SAS.UPENN.EDU!spoethig
From: spoethig@MAIL.SAS.UPENN.EDU ("R. Scott Poethig")
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Aphid-supporting maize mutant?
Message-ID: <9302162317.AA19896@mail.sas.upenn.edu>
Date: 16 Feb 93 23:17:25 GMT
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 19

A little while back someone mentioned in a note to the newsgroup that he thought
he may have found a maize mutant that supports large populations of aphids. 

I would like to get in touch with him, but unfortunately, we did not keep the 
note, and I could not find it in the newswatcher any more.

Can anybody help? Thanks! 

Hilli Passas
EMAIL: SPOETHIG@mail.sas.upenn.edu

Plant Science Institute
University of Pennsylvania
PA 19104-6018
Tel: 215-898-8916

  




Article 931 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!NETCOM.COM!wick
From: wick@NETCOM.COM (Potter Wickware)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: re Flavr-savr tomato
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302161711.B26638-a100000@netcom2>
Date: 17 Feb 93 01:37:15 GMT
References: <9302160444.AA21167@net.bio.net>
Sender: daemon@net.bio.net
Distribution: bionet
Lines: 25

Hello Plant People --
	A couple of days ago someone posted two citations about fruit
ripening and PGU.  I meant to save them but threw them away instead.  Did
anyone save them?  IF so could you forward them to me?  Much obliged.

	Potter Wickware, Oakland, CA wick@netcom.com

On 15 Feb 1993, J Preiss--Seq Anal wrote:

> 
> As I recall, the flavr-savr tomato was made by putting the polygalacturonase
> gene into one of the RIN or NOR or NR ripening mutants.  I think it was NR.
> They used the PG gene from the paper by Della-Penna and Alexander PNAS 1986
> I think.  I could be wrong, but I have spoken to several people from Calgene,
> and I know they told me that this is how they made some of the early varieties.
> 
> 	Hope this helps
> 
> 	Lenny Bloksberg
> 	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
> 
> 





Article 931 of bionet.plants:
Path: samba!concert!rock!stanford.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!uwm.edu!biosci!NETCOM.COM!wick
From: wick@NETCOM.COM (Potter Wickware)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: re Flavr-savr tomato
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.9302161711.B26638-a100000@netcom2>
Date: 17 Feb 93 01:37:15 GMT
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Hello Plant People --
	A couple of days ago someone posted two citations about fruit
ripening and PGU.  I meant to save them but threw them away instead.  Did
anyone save them?  IF so could you forward them to me?  Much obliged.

	Potter Wickware, Oakland, CA wick@netcom.com

On 15 Feb 1993, J Preiss--Seq Anal wrote:

> 
> As I recall, the flavr-savr tomato was made by putting the polygalacturonase
> gene into one of the RIN or NOR or NR ripening mutants.  I think it was NR.
> They used the PG gene from the paper by Della-Penna and Alexander PNAS 1986
> I think.  I could be wrong, but I have spoken to several people from Calgene,
> and I know they told me that this is how they made some of the early varieties.
> 
> 	Hope this helps
> 
> 	Lenny Bloksberg
> 	PreissJ@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
> 
> 





Article 932 of bionet.plants:
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From: sgmccook@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Stuart George Mccook)
Subject: Looking for us grad schools in paleoecology
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A Venzuelan friend of mine is interested in doing graduate work in  
paleoecology in the United States.  If anyone out there has information
on grad programs in this field, please let me know.  If you have any
written materials or information, my address here is
Stuart McCook
Instituto Venezolano De Investigaciones Cientificas
Departamento de Estudio de la Ciencia
Apartado 21827
Caracas 1020-A
Venezuela.

Thanks!

Stuart.


Article 1009 of bionet.plants:
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From: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Vance Bell)
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: The Use of Plants to Treat Wastewater
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I am greatly interested in the possiblity of using plants, and/or entire
ecosystems to treat wastewaste.  I understand that work on this has been
attempted in Northern California; Sugarbush, Vermont; Louisiana; Cape May,
Massachussetts, and possibly other places.

I would greatly appreciate any references on this type of research.

The main source I presently have is an article on the New Alchemy
Institute, in Massachussetts, and a man named Jodd Todd who has apparently
founded a company to promote the "technology."

Citations of reference books on plant abilities to sequester metals, or
treat water would also be helpful.

Thank You.

Vance Bell: vbell@mail.sas.upenn.edu


From d.richardson@mail.utexas.edu Thu Nov 17 06:35:19 EST 1994
Article: 4492 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oit-mail2news-gateway
From: d.richardson@mail.utexas.edu (Dick Richardson)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: activists, etc. (response to questions)
Date: 17 Nov 1994 01:02:26 -0000
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Please pardon the length of this post.  I have taken a couple weeks to
reply to some questions raised in response to my initial post regarding the
land application of biosolids ("sludge") near Sierra Blanca, Texas.  In the
initial posting, itself in response to another by "Oklahoma", I commented
on the environmental benefits observed by spreading biosolids ("sludge") on
a semiarid rangeland ecosystem, and the effects of activism in regard to
the nearby community.  There has been heated and persistent controversy in
the media, reaching national levels last summer -- mildly in "The National
Geographic" magazine, and hysterically on NBC's "TV Nation."  The latter
caused intense resentment in the community.

Bill Reid, a terrestrial ecologist at the Pacific Northwest Laboratories,
raised some pertinent issues regarding the risks of noxious materials into
the waste stream.  In particular, he asked about the sample scheme used to
"prevent the introduction of noxious materials, including heavy metals and
nasty organics" into sewage.  He also asked about the "racial proportions"
in the community and nearby large landowners.

Below I offer my response to the technical issues, but, more importantly,
for the implied environmental racism aspect of Mr. Reid's posting, I asked
the assistance from a resident who also is an elected representative of the
people living in Sierra Blanca.

There is no surefire way to avoid someone dumping a large amount of
anything into a sewer line.  It is certainly no great consolation that this
also is true in our drinking water.  Up to 75% of the water from the sewer
is returned to the pool from which our drinking water is drawn downstream,
after the solid materials are removed, so that we can assume that some of
these "nasty organics", if present, may reappear in drinking water.

By the way, the Sierra Blanca project (viz., MERCO Joint Ventures, which
has the contract with NYC) recently received a "Clean Texas 2000" award for
this project.

Since 1987 New York City has had an active investigative and enforcement
division that monitors sewage treatment plant inputs and outputs on a daily
basis for any changes in the toxics.  They use an extensive GIS monitoring
and tracking procedure to identify industrial and residential sources of
pollution.  Their effectiveness in improving the quality of the sludge has
been remarkable, and now 80% of their sewage is used beneficially in Ohio,
Colorado, Florida, Virginia, Arizona and Texas.  In Florida it is blended
with fertilizer for citrus grove application, and in Arizona some is used
on pecan and pistachio groves as well as cotton.  Colorado use is on dry
land wheat farms.

Heavy metals (and E. coli) are checked before shipping to Texas and any
containers with levels above EPA standards are rejected.  Two additional
series of tests are performed in Texas before application.  New York City
has further reduced the levels of copper and lead by treating pipes with
ortho-phosphate to reduce corrosion.  Although well within current EPA
standards at present, there clearly will be continuing improvements in
quality of sludge for land applications.

It is also noteworthy that the regulations were written with acid soils and
high rainfall areas (the most troublesome conditions for heavy metals) in
mind.  West Texas is another matter.  Due to the naturally alkaline soils
in the area of land application, heavy metals are bound and generally
unavailable to plants.  In fact, supplements of copper, selenium, zinc, and
other heavy metals are supplemented in livestock feeds and human diets.
The amount applied in these soils is very small relative to the amounts of
these elements naturally present in the soil.  By chemical analysis, dust
is potentially more toxic to animals than the sludge by several orders of
magnitude.  Tests of plant tissue by Texas Tech scientists, who are
conducting the research on this project, have shown no change in heavy
metal uptake, whether from natural sources or from sludge (after two full
growing seasons of perennial grasses).

However, the risk assessment ultimately is limited to the presence of
toxins that are detectable.  EPA originally tested over 400 potential
pollutants for which a test existed, and reduced the list to those included
in the regulations after concluding for a variety of reasons that the
others were not threatening to health and safety.

There are numerous examples where we have unwittingly poisoned ourselves by
not knowing what to test for.  Dioxin comes to mind.  When I first used
2,4,5-T herbicide for mesquite brush on my land, the presence of dioxin as
a contaminant was unsuspected.  It wasn't until 2,4,5-T was dispersed at
orders of magnitude larger applications as a component of Agent Orange that
a toxic contaminant was suspected.  The possibility of "phantom toxins"
remains a possibility with sludge, drinking water, air, organically grown
vegetables, and soft drinks, to name a few examples.

We must remain eternally vigilant in our caution to avoid poisoning
ourselves and our environment, and then hope for a healthy dose of good
luck.  EPA has a mandate to review all regulations, and I do not doubt that
additional tests will be added in due time.  Test protocols will continue
to evolve as a matter of appropriate monitoring.

In the meantime, the best estimates of potential hazards are included in
the existing tests.  We know sludge is a valuable organic fertilizer and
sorely needed in the rangeland soils.  It seems entirely rational to me to
use a recognized beneficial organic resource with minimal risks in
preference to creating undisputed problems by filling limited landfills to
avoid phantom risks.  That farmers, including organic farmers, in many
places purchase sludge (or composts or pellets made from it) suggests they
also agree and speak with their money.

In the case of noxious organics in the sludge, there is extensive
biological degradation in treatment before application.  This is both good
and bad.  It generally achieves extensive decomposition of all organic
materials, which is one way to reduce pathogens and levels of organic
pollutants.  However, it is fortunate that much of the organic matter
remains and can further be utilized by soil organisms to produce humus for
soil improvement.  Personally, I would like to see sewage processing move
toward "on site" biological processing where more organisms would find
nutritional value from the original waste and shift more of the
detoxification toward existing processes in the ecosystem.  Biological
systems including artificial wetlands, are more desirable than less natural
processing using engineering schemes, in my opinion.  Of course, this is a
complex topic and no specific statement can be made on these options
without careful study.

The last question raised by Mr. Reid is potentially more harmful to the
community than the scientific and technical questions addressed above.  Mr.
Reid wrote, "Also, perhaps you could describe the racial composition of
both the town and the large landowners?  I do believe there is a
difference, and I am sure there has been such a study."

In itself it seems like an innocuous request.  However, in light of the
controversies fanned by NBC, a few newspapers, and certain activists, it is
not so neutral after all.  There could be an innuendo of real or possible
racial discrimination, which, if true, would be a serious issue, indeed.  I
shared both my original posting and Mr. Reid's response with Mr. Wayne
West, who was elected by the people of Sierra Blanca to serve on the
Hudspeth County Commissioner's Court.  His grandfather was one of the three
original patriarches from near Coyame, Mexico, who founded the town almost
a century ago.  The voting returns are public information.  He is not one
of the "large landowners" in the area.  He clearly represents a large
Hispanic majority of the community, and he also is respected by most of the
"large landowners".  Commissioner West responded as follows:

"There have been many questions about the Merco Project in Sierra Blanca
and many opinions and conclusions.  The most asked question is - 'will the
project be detrimental to the health of all residents?'  My duty to all of
the residents of this county is to make sure there is no harm at all.  I
have asked many questions to all involved, both pro and con, and at this
time I have not found any dangers to the Public health."

"The TNRCC has ok'd the project and the EPA are in my opinion the people we
have trusted to evaluate the project.  My concerns go beyond theirs and
that is how to keep our people and all health safe."

"Too many times outside people try to create problems for someone else."

"My old Grandpa used to say - 'Look at your own back yard before you tell
someone else about their's.  I think that my fellow County Commissioners
and myself feel this way.
[...]"

I believe that we, as non-residents of a community, must be very careful
not to "find" problems where none exist.  Every community has a
characteristic dynamic among the citizenry, and small communities
effectively "have no secrets."  Generally there is a much stronger tendency
to settle differences directly and personally than among residents in urban
communities.  This is one of the features that has attracted some of the
newer residents, Hispanic and Anglo, to move to Sierra Blanca and settle
with their spouses and families.  There are about 700 people living there.
No strangers live in Sierra Blanca.  Social issues are discussed at church,
on the street, at fiesta, at the football game, and so forth.  Television
has not replaced informal talking among neighbors as the principal source
of information!

(I appreciate the assistance of Mr. Wayne West and Dr. Patricia Behrens in
the preparation of this reply.  Also, Mr. Reid's concern echoes that of
many others, initially including myself.  I'm satisfied that this is a well
monitored and well managed project, and is much more beneficial in all
aspects than the alternatives available at this time.)

=========================================================================
R. H. (Dick) Richardson               *    (512) 471-4128  (w)
Zoology Department                    *    (512) 471-9651  (FAX)
University of Texas                   *    (512) 476-5131  (h)
Austin, TX  78712                     *    d.richardson@mail.utexas.edu




Article 3393 of sci.bio.ecology:
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Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:22:00 EST
Sender: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs,
              news" <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.BITNET>
From: "William J. Mitsch" <wmitsch@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: ecological engineering
Lines: 64

To Bonnie Weller:

You inquiry on ecological engineering was forwarded to me. For starters,
there is a journal Ecological Engineering that is published by Elsevier. We
edit the journal here and are now beginning Volume 3. Anyone who wants
information on the journal should E-mail their name and address to me. A
society is beginning to form in Europe where members will take the journal
at a fraction of the Elsevier price. I will include information on that too
in the mailing.

Some recent publications on ecological engineering:

Eco. Eng. Vol. 1, No. 1&2 Special issue on The Role of Created and Natural
Wetlands in Controlling Nonpoint Source Pollution

Eco. Eng. Vol. 2, No. 3 Special issue on Ecological Engineering in China

Forthcoming special issues of the journal:

Eco. Eng. Vol 3, No. 1 Special issue on Forest Ecosystem Development on
Degraded and Reclaimed Sites

Eco Eng. Vol 3, No. 3 Special issue on Environmental Degradation due to
Heavy Metals and Acidifying Deposition (in Central Europe)

Eco. Eng. Vol.3, No. 4 Special issue on Creating Freshwater Marshes in a
Riparian Landscape: Research at the Des Plaines River Wetland Demonstration
Project

Som papers and books:

Mitsch, W.J. 1993. Ecological engineering-a cooperative role with the
planetary life-support systems.  Environmental Science and Technology
27:438-445.

Mitsch, W.J.  1991.  Ecological engineering: the roots and rationale of a
new ecological paradigm.  Pages 19-37 In: C. Etnier and B. Guterstam, eds.
Ecological Engineering for Wastewater Treatment, Proceedings of the
International Conference. Bokskogen Publishers, Gothenburg, Sweden.

Mitsch, W.J.  1991. Ecological engineering - approaches to sustainability
and biodiversity in U.S. and China. Pages 428-448 In: R. Costanza, ed.
Ecological Economics: The Science and Management of Sustainability,
Columbia University Press, New York.

Mitsch and Jorgensen. 1989. Ecological engineering. J. Wiley, New York

Odum, H.T. 1989. Ecological engineering and self-organization (approx
title) in Mitsch and Jorgensen book.


I hope this helps.

Bill Mitsch

William J. Mitsch, Ph.D.
Professor
School of Natural Resources
2021 Coffey Road
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH  43210

wmitsch@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Phone: 614-292-9774
FAX: 614-292-7432


From PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET Thu Mar  3 12:45:01 1994
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:27:42 EST
From: RON GITAITIS <PATH4@TIFTON.BITNET>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bart Hall-Beyer

On Tue, 18 Jan 1994 14:06:31 -0500 Ray Dobert said:
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>
>
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field ?
>
>Bart Hall-Beyer     ):*
>Fayetteville, Ark.

Here are a few names to begin your quest.
I do not know how many of these people are still at the locations listed,
as I am taking them off of references that are 1-10 yrs old.

D.K. Chatterjee, J.J. Kilbane, and A.M. Chakrabarty  Univ. Illinois
                                                     Dept. of Microbiology

Frank Higson and Dennis Focht  Univ. of Calif. @Riverside  Dept of Soil and
                                                            Environm. Sci.

O.A. Ogunseitan, I.L. Delgado, Y.-L. Tsai and B.H. Olson  Univ. of Calif Irvine
                                                     Environ. Analysis & Design
                                                     Program in Social Ecology

S.-Y. Liu, Z. Zheng, R. Zhang, and J.-M. Bollag   Penn State Univ
                                                  Dept. of Agronomy
                                                  Lab of Soil Biochemistry


Martin Alexander   Dept. of Agronomy/ Lab of Soil Microbiology
                   Cornell University



Nikolaus Amrhein    Institut fur Pflanzenwissenschaften / Biochemie und
                    Physiologie der Pflanzen, ETH Zurich, Sonneggstrasse 5
                    Ch-8092 Zurich, Switzerland

S. E. Maloney     Division of Biotechnology, Public Health Laboratory Service
                  Centre for Applied Microbiology & Research
                  Porton Down / Salisbury / Wiltshire / SP4 0JG /
                  UNITED KINGDOM


Walter Mulbry and Jeffry Karns   USDA Pesticide Degradation Laboratory
                                 ARS / USDA
                                 Beltsville MD 20705

Allan Konopka    Dept. of Biological Sciences / Purdue University

From K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au Thu Mar  3 12:46:20 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 11:32:35 +1000
From: Kathy Canning <K.Canning@geog.utas.edu.au>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:12:19 -0600 (CST)
>From: Bart Hall_Beyer <barth@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
>To: sanet-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Bioremediation
>
>Is anyone aware of a list or discussion group dealing with
>"bioremediation" of agricultural lands ?
>If there is no list or group, do any of you know of researchers and
>others working in that field

Try these contacts:
Marion Grinter &/or John Wickens at
Bio-region Computer Mapping & Research
3 Le Hunte St,
ACT 2600
Australia
ph & fx (06 282 5808;
Email biomap@peg

or try
Tania Stadler (she is away for a week)
 Tania.Stadler@geog.utas.edu.au

regards Kathy

>

From SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Mar  3 12:48:14 1994
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 08:16:54 EST
From: "Malcolm E. Sumner" <SUMNERME@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Re: Bioremediation (fwd)

Dear Dr Dobert
              Dr Domy Adriano and myself are starting a project on the bioremed
iation of steel flue dust contaminated soil (heavy metals) using a combination
of crops and soil treatments.
                             Regards
                                    Malcolm Sumner

From SIMONS@mbrsbr.agr.ca Thu Mar  3 12:57:04 1994
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 14:40:54 -0500
From: Richard Simons <SIMONS@mbrsbr.agr.ca>
Reply to: Agriculture Discussion <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: Bioremediation

A few more names of possible contacts :

A.D. (Tony) Bradshaw of the University of Liverpool, L69 3BX, UK, has
worked on heavy metal tolerance in grasses and revegetation of polluted
sites.  He has also worked with revegetation of colliery spoil heaps
and, I believe, of heaps of slate waste.

J.E. Winch, recently retired from Crop Sci. Dept., U. of Guelph,
Ontario, N1G 2W1 (ph (519) 824-4120) has been involved with revegetation
of mine tailings in northern areas of Canada.

Over the past 20-30 years, the city of Swansea, Wales, has made an
impressive job of dealing with heavily-polluted areas, and probably has
built up considerable expertise.

I hope these suggestions are useful.

Richard Simons, Agric. Canada, Brandon, Manitoba
From wbw@shore.net Sat Sep 17 22:27:10 EDT 1994
Article: 1754 of alt.energy.renewable
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From: wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,alt.energy.renewable,sci.energy
Subject: Bioremediation experiment: Please help with Aeration problem
Date: 17 Sep 1994 18:28:03 -0400
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Summary: Insufficient Aeration on biobarge 1
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:42861 alt.energy.renewable:1754 sci.energy:24813

Hello all,      
 	 I have built a solar/wind powered, simulated saltmarsh aboard
a fifty-three foot barge and have some questions about aeration. I need to
provide enough aeration for the nitrifying bacteria in the primary
treatment tanks (8x55gallons total), and also need to start aeration in
the solar algae tanks (8x66gallons) to support the algavores (snails and
fish).  
	I had a 120v/2500W generator which I had planned to use to run
a homemade aeration system... It never did put out enough current to even
get the pump to run then, one tragic day <sniff, sniff>, the generator
stopped generating.  Should I try to find a commercial solution?  Or is
there some wonderfully simple, homemade solution to my aeration woes? Am I
going to need120v to run a dependable aeration system, or is it doable
with 12vdc?  I also ponder mechanical aeration, ie. when the wind blows
the tanks are aerated, but that too is a bit problematic.  Mechanical
aeration would be great when windy but it would need to be supplemented by
a secondary system for times of little wind. hmph.
	  Any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
William




Regarding land application of sewage sludge and the accumulation of
dangerous levels of toxic metals in the soil:

Many, perhaps hundreds, of hyperaccumulating plants have been identified.
These take up large quantities of toxic metals from the medium in which
they are grown. Perhaps large tracts of marginal farmland could be devoted
to sludge recycling where certain hyeraccumulating plants could be grown
as cover crops, harvested and themselves recycled to reclaim the heavy metals.
Tracts farmed this way could be rotated allowing a certain percentage
of the total acreage to lay fallow for periods of time.
The plant residue allowed to remain after harvest would serve to raise
levels of organic matter in the soil, thus increasing soil tilth and reducing
the time required for soil preparation with farm equipment.
During fallow times, acreage could be used to produce cash crops such as
ornamental nursery stock (esp. plant material used for erosion control,
bioremediation (air cleaning in urban areas), wind, sound, visual buffers
and wildlife habitat). Tree farming for saw timber, fuel, wood pulp and
chips, growing of biomass for synfuel and paper production could be done as
well. 
Collection basins below slopes on this farmland could collect runoff to be
processed in partitioned lagoons inside greenhouses where a variety of
marine organisims and aquatic plants could detoxify the effluent.

--------
Could anyone suggest any references about hyperaccumulating plants,
marine and soil organisims that are able to thrive under polluted conditions
and bioremediation technology?

Lawrence

london@sunsite.unc.edu 

From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 16:44:50 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:40:45 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: soil-test.for.heavy-metals

Article 22027 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lead from Paint
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 00:00:00 +0600
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Lines: 72

Ebf@Cbnewst.Cb.Att.Com to All - Sunday, August 29th:

on August 29, 19 92 Discussing: Lead from Paint

E>Message-ID: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
 >Newsgroup: rec.gardens
 >Organization: AT&T

E>My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago,
 >and lead paint made its way into the soil

E>Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house --
 >is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
 >from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

E>Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
 >in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

There is no inexpensive test for lead concentration in soil that I know
of. Water is a different matter, but soil no. The cost is in the setting
up and preparation of the sample. Once set up, it is easy to test for
additional heavy metals such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, etc. I would
expect the test to run upwards of $200.

There are two levels of lead of concern, Parts Per Million (PPM) and
extractable, or leachable lead. The EPA hazardous level for lead is 5000
PPM, the leachable level is 5. There is virtually no chance that your
lead is in a leachable form since it is from paint, so there is no point
even running the leach test.

Background lead levels will run from 50 PPM up to 250 PPM. Soils near
traffic areas will typically be high around 500 PPM from lead from
gasoline. Even with the lead removed, it is still in the soil from years
ago. Lead does not typically migrate and it certainly does not decay
into something else. Once it is there, it is always there.

Lead limits in sludges and compost are set at either 500 PPM or 1000 PPM
before the sludge must be landfilled rather than used beneficially. Even
more of concern is the total pounds of lead added to the soil per acre,
since compost and sludge are diluted with the topsoil, but accumulate
over years.

There is little to do with lead contaminated soil other than to remove
it and bury it somewhere where it will not erode or grow crops, such as
a landfill. From paint sources, the lead will typically be in the
surface few inches as it is a large element and does not migrate
through the soil quickly. If you scraped off the old soil a few inches
deep, where the paint was or accumulated, you will have removed most of
it. Send it to a conventional sanitary landfill, possibly a demolition
fill. Do not spade or till it into the soil, as that only makes for more
topsoil that must be removed.

Lead does not readily accumulate in plants. Its problem comes in root
vegetables where it is adhered to the root as a part of the topsoil. The
more serious problem is children eating lead paint chips or the soil
itself, a phenomenon known as the "pica" syndrome. Lead can also be
breathed as a dust, and surprisingly, the skin absorbs lead quickly.
Much has been made of lead in drinking water. So the pathway to the body
is direct, rather than secondary through plants.

I hope this information helps.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~~~

Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis

e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * August 30th - Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned!



 

From london@calypso Wed Jan 26 16:44:24 1994
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:40:30 -0500
From: Larry London <london@calypso>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: lead-contamination.in.soil

Article 22027 of rec.gardens:
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Lead from Paint
From: jim.mcnelly@gcbb.granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!uum1!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <36.470.2552.0N41B8F9@gcbb.granite.mn.org>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 00:00:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City BBS 612-654-8372 hst 656-0678 v.32bis
Lines: 72

Ebf@Cbnewst.Cb.Att.Com to All - Sunday, August 29th:

on August 29, 19 92 Discussing: Lead from Paint

E>Message-ID: <CCHH1u.9tz@cbnewst.cb.att.com>
 >Newsgroup: rec.gardens
 >Organization: AT&T

E>My VERY old house was power washed 2 years ago,
 >and lead paint made its way into the soil

E>Tomatoes are growing within 6 feet of the house --
 >is it possible for the plants to take up the lead
 >from the soil and  deposit the lead in the tomato fruits?

E>Is there a way to cheaply test for lead concentration
 >in the soil or in the tomatoes themselves?

There is no inexpensive test for lead concentration in soil that I know
of. Water is a different matter, but soil no. The cost is in the setting
up and preparation of the sample. Once set up, it is easy to test for
additional heavy metals such as mercury, cadmium, chromium, etc. I would
expect the test to run upwards of $200.

There are two levels of lead of concern, Parts Per Million (PPM) and
extractable, or leachable lead. The EPA hazardous level for lead is 5000
PPM, the leachable level is 5. There is virtually no chance that your
lead is in a leachable form since it is from paint, so there is no point
even running the leach test.

Background lead levels will run from 50 PPM up to 250 PPM. Soils near
traffic areas will typically be high around 500 PPM from lead from
gasoline. Even with the lead removed, it is still in the soil from years
ago. Lead does not typically migrate and it certainly does not decay
into something else. Once it is there, it is always there.

Lead limits in sludges and compost are set at either 500 PPM or 1000 PPM
before the sludge must be landfilled rather than used beneficially. Even
more of concern is the total pounds of lead added to the soil per acre,
since compost and sludge are diluted with the topsoil, but accumulate
over years.

There is little to do with lead contaminated soil other than to remove
it and bury it somewhere where it will not erode or grow crops, such as
a landfill. From paint sources, the lead will typically be in the
surface few inches as it is a large element and does not migrate
through the soil quickly. If you scraped off the old soil a few inches
deep, where the paint was or accumulated, you will have removed most of
it. Send it to a conventional sanitary landfill, possibly a demolition
fill. Do not spade or till it into the soil, as that only makes for more
topsoil that must be removed.

Lead does not readily accumulate in plants. Its problem comes in root
vegetables where it is adhered to the root as a part of the topsoil. The
more serious problem is children eating lead paint chips or the soil
itself, a phenomenon known as the "pica" syndrome. Lead can also be
breathed as a dust, and surprisingly, the skin absorbs lead quickly.
Much has been made of lead in drinking water. So the pathway to the body
is direct, rather than secondary through plants.

I hope this information helps.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~~~

Granite Cities BBS 612-654-8372-HST 654-0678 v.32bis

e-mail jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * August 30th - Sure, when... OINK FLAP OINK FLAP... Well I'll be damned!



 

From walter@flashmag.comSun Apr  9 23:21:49 1995
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:04:03 EST
From: Walter Vose Jeffries <walter@flashmag.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: spiderplants


In article <3l71sj$cod@fun.Direct.CA> (rec.gardens), cmay@Direct.CA (Colleenmay) writes:
> I'm a lousy and lazy indoor plant gardener--but--someone gave me a
> small spiderplant about 5 years ago and it's thriving on neglect
> and abuse.  I water it only when I remember, and when I have the energy
> to climb up to it.  It's massive now. I have it hanging in a bathroom
> under a northerly skylight.  When I do water it I end up saturating 
> it because I know it'll be a while til I do it again.  So it seems
> to like infrequent thorough water in an extremely humid place.
> (I'm in Vancouver B.C., and have never moved it outdoors.)  Good luck--
> they can be beautiful--and I hear beneficial to the enviro??

Given sufficient humidity they will thrive with out any
'watering' as they can take water and nutrients(?) out of
the air. I have a lot (>150) spider plants. Some I water a
lot - they have thick (2") wide leaves, are dark green, and
huge. Others I water rarely - they have thinner leaves
(0.5") and are bluish in color but they also thrive (18" to
24" spread of leaves and lots of 'babies'). They do much
better in the greenhouse where there is lots of humidity
than in the house in the winter where the air gets dry
(wood stove heat). I have read in several books that spider
plants are one of the best plants at removing toxins like
formaldihyde from the air. NASA was one of the sources of
info on this. Their leaves are also quite poisonous I
believe so keep children from eating them.


----------------------------------------------------------------
BlackLightning, Riddle Pond Rd, West Topsham, Vermont 05086  USA
Sales: 1-800-252-2599 x01 or (802) 439-6462   Fax:(802) 439-6463
For wild ideas in laser printing & desktop publishing send email
subject:INDEX,TRANSFER TONER,FLASH MAGAZINE to:INFO@FLASHMAG.COM

Censorship is for bureaucrats  - fuck the government before they
fuck you. Fight Senate Bill 314 & the 1995 Telecommunications Act.


From walter@flashmag.comSun Apr  9 23:28:10 1995
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 16:04:03 EST
From: Walter Vose Jeffries <walter@flashmag.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: spiderplants


In article <3l71sj$cod@fun.Direct.CA> (rec.gardens), cmay@Direct.CA (Colleenmay) writes:
> I'm a lousy and lazy indoor plant gardener--but--someone gave me a
> small spiderplant about 5 years ago and it's thriving on neglect
> and abuse.  I water it only when I remember, and when I have the energy
> to climb up to it.  It's massive now. I have it hanging in a bathroom
> under a northerly skylight.  When I do water it I end up saturating 
> it because I know it'll be a while til I do it again.  So it seems
> to like infrequent thorough water in an extremely humid place.
> (I'm in Vancouver B.C., and have never moved it outdoors.)  Good luck--
> they can be beautiful--and I hear beneficial to the enviro??

Given sufficient humidity they will thrive with out any
'watering' as they can take water and nutrients(?) out of
the air. I have a lot (>150) spider plants. Some I water a
lot - they have thick (2") wide leaves, are dark green, and
huge. Others I water rarely - they have thinner leaves
(0.5") and are bluish in color but they also thrive (18" to
24" spread of leaves and lots of 'babies'). They do much
better in the greenhouse where there is lots of humidity
than in the house in the winter where the air gets dry
(wood stove heat). I have read in several books that spider
plants are one of the best plants at removing toxins like
formaldihyde from the air. NASA was one of the sources of
info on this. Their leaves are also quite poisonous I
believe so keep children from eating them.


----------------------------------------------------------------
BlackLightning, Riddle Pond Rd, West Topsham, Vermont 05086  USA
Sales: 1-800-252-2599 x01 or (802) 439-6462   Fax:(802) 439-6463
For wild ideas in laser printing & desktop publishing send email
subject:INDEX,TRANSFER TONER,FLASH MAGAZINE to:INFO@FLASHMAG.COM

Censorship is for bureaucrats  - fuck the government before they
fuck you. Fight Senate Bill 314 & the 1995 Telecommunications Act.

Article 683 of sci.agriculture:
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!mustang.alleg.edu!news
From: grubist@murr12.alleg.edu (Thomas Grubisha)
Newsgroups: sci.agriculture
Subject: Models for Ecological Sustainability
Date: 17 Apr 1994 20:21:24 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <2os5o4$8em@mustang.alleg.edu>
Reply-To: grubist@alleg.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: murr12.alleg.edu
Keywords: resilient systems/organic waste/sustainable development


	I am initiating a research project that seeks to develop on  
sustainability in ecology.  The main emphasis of the project is to further  
research the works of John and Nancy Todd (natural system design  
precepts), Amory and Hunter Lovins  of the Rocky Mountains Institute  
(resilient technological systems), and Wes and Dana Jackson (prairies as  
ecological farms).   I find their ideas about organic waste treatment,  
architecture, farming, and production very interesting and extremely  
important for the future.  I first learned of these ideas in a piece by  
David W. Orr on Ecological Literacy: Education and the Transition to a  
Postmodern World.  That was the first time that I had heard of some of  
their proposals and I wish to better educate myself  so that I might  
better inform others as well.  This reading  was a handout copy of the  
original and there was no bibliography included.
	I would be extremely greatful if anyone has any information about  
these people, topic areas, or current news on the issues.  Any further  
bibliographical information would be of great help to and to my project  
also.  
	Thank you for your time and please address any responses to my  
address below or this group.


T.J. Grubisha
Box 1768
Allegheny College
Meadville, PA 16335  
USA
(814) 332-2238

INTERNET: grubist@alleg.edu



Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:29:28 -0700
"Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Re: cleaning products
To: Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> C. Hanlon has requested info on cleaning compounds.  Perhaps someone out there
> can enlighten me as well.  There seems to be a common perception "out there"
> that commercial detergents are less environmentally friendly than old
 fashioned
> cleaners that grandma used, like borax.
>
> Most commercial soaps are primarily sodium lauryl sulfate or
> similar fatty acid salts.  Since medium chain fatty acids are easily
 metabolized
> by microbes, the primary ingredients don't strike me as being particularly
> threatening.
>
> Borax, on the other hand, is a reasonably toxic element for mammals.
> Acceptable maximum tolerable levels for domestic animals:
>
> boron        150 ppm
> selenium       2 ppm
> mercury      2-3 ppm
> strontium  2,000 ppm
> chromium   1,000 ppm
> cadmium       0.5 ppm
> manganese    400 ppm (swine)
> uranium      400 ppm (rats)
>
> These numbers are subject to other mineral interactions and species variation.
> However, I don't know of anyone who would suggest washing clothes in uranium
> salts even if it were an effective cleaner.
>
> Lyle Rode
> Nutritionist
> Agriculture Canada

a reply:

synthetic detergents were at one time composed largely of branched long
chain "fatty acids". bugs could not eat their way around the side chains
and so the detergents did not degrade (does that cause a nutrients
problem--i guess not, that's due to inputs of phosphor in the cleaning
agents?).

and what about these new citrus oil solvents that are meant to be super
effective, ie can be used to replace industrial strength solvents eg
methylene chloride, cfc's, toluene, etc. (down w. chlorine!). i understand
they are terpene molecular units that do the cleaning (ie are the reactive
molecule in the formulation). take it they are similar to old fashioned
turpentine. degradable? toxicity (chronic, acute)?
From jimcook@panix.com Sat Mar 25 10:45:09 EST 1995
Article: 22078 of sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!news.iag.net!news.mathworks.com!panix!usenet
From: jimcook@panix.com (Jim Cook)
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Date: 18 Mar 1995 04:57:18 GMT
Organization: Sometimes
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.84.208.28
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.bio:22078 sci.environment:54312

In article <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com>, 
eee@netcom.com (Mark Thorson) says:
>
>In article <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>,
>Gerod Wattier <BCHP16A@prodigy.com> wrote:
>>Hi, I hope there is a biologist out there that can answer this question.  
>>I work with an educational institution that teaches conservation to fifth 
>>and sixth graders.  We tell them how important trees are because they 
>>clean our air.  I've often wondered and have had the questioned asked how 
>>much polution do trees clean out of the air.  In the Pacific Northwest we 
>>have quite a few fir and alder trees.  For example how many average size 
>>trees would it take to clean up the polution from one automobile?  Does 
>>anyone have any information on that?
>>
>>Thanks Jerry
>>Carnation, Washington
>>bchp16a@prodigy.com
>
>I've crossposted this to sci.environment, where it should have gone in
>the first place.  Someone there might have the information you seek,
>however I think you'll be a bit surprised.  At least when you're talking
>about the hydrocarbons that contribute to haze and smog, trees CAUSE
>pollution, they don't cure it.

Simonich and Hites (1994) estimated that most of the atmosphere to soil
flux of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) occurs via absorption 
to plants.  They suggested that this may also be the case for other low
vapor pressure and hydrophobic atmospheric pollutants -- such as 
polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, dibenzofurans and biphenyls.

It's true that trees and other plants release hydrocarbons to the 
atmosphere, and that these hydrocarbons contribute to the formation 
of smog and haze.  However, the rate limiting reactant in this 
photochemical reaction is NOx, which is largely anthropogenic in most
urban areas.
...Simonich, S.L. and Hites, R.A. (1994) Importance of Vegetation
in Removing Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons from the Atmosphere.
Nature, 370, 49-51.


From anthonyp@scripps.edu Sat Mar 25 10:46:13 EST 1995
Article: 22094 of sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!scripps.edu!usenet
From: anthonyp@scripps.edu
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 08:48:42 PST
Organization: The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com>
   <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tony_pc.scripps.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:54375 sci.bio:22094


In article <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>, <jimcook@panix.com> writes:

> Simonich and Hites (1994) estimated that most of the atmosphere to soil
> flux of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) occurs via absorption 
> to plants.  They suggested that this may also be the case for other low
> vapor pressure and hydrophobic atmospheric pollutants -- such as 
> polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, dibenzofurans and biphenyls.
> 
> It's true that trees and other plants release hydrocarbons to the 
> atmosphere, and that these hydrocarbons contribute to the formation 
> of smog and haze.  However, the rate limiting reactant in this 
> photochemical reaction is NOx, which is largely anthropogenic in most
> urban areas.
> ....Simonich, S.L. and Hites, R.A. (1994) Importance of Vegetation
> in Removing Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons from the Atmosphere.
> Nature, 370, 49-51.


Thanks for the citation...always a help. 
I'm not in this field, but it seems to me what you are saying is that, as 
part of the process of transpiration, trees and other plants will carry 
hydrocarbons disolved in the ground water into the tree, and then it will 
blow off in to the air.
Is it therefore correct to say that trees are only responsible for moving 
the hydrocarbons from the soil to the air?  That is, they do not *create* 
any of these things?  If so, then the question really is, how did the 
hydrocarbons such as dioxins get into the ground?

I'm sure Mr. Reagan would blame the ground-hogs.  and that Mr Thorson 
would believe him.

-tony


From jimcook@panix.com Sat Mar 25 10:53:09 EST 1995
Article: 22137 of sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.mathworks.com!panix!usenet
From: jimcook@panix.com (Jim Cook)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Date: 21 Mar 1995 06:57:28 GMT
Organization: Sometimes
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <3kltco$s1c@news.panix.com>
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com> <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.84.208.28
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:54435 sci.bio:22137

In article <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>, anthonyp@scripps.edu says:
>
>
>In article <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>, <jimcook@panix.com> writes:
>
>> Simonich and Hites (1994) estimated that most of the atmosphere to soil
>> flux of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) occurs via absorption 
>> to plants.  They suggested that this may also be the case for other low
>> vapor pressure and hydrophobic atmospheric pollutants -- such as 
>> polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, dibenzofurans and biphenyls.
>> 
>> It's true that trees and other plants release hydrocarbons to the 
>> atmosphere, and that these hydrocarbons contribute to the formation 
>> of smog and haze.  However, the rate limiting reactant in this 
>> photochemical reaction is NOx, which is largely anthropogenic in most
>> urban areas.
>> ....Simonich, S.L. and Hites, R.A. (1994) Importance of Vegetation
>> in Removing Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons from the Atmosphere.
>> Nature, 370, 49-51.
>
>
>Thanks for the citation...always a help. 
>
>I'm not in this field, but it seems to me what you are saying is that, as 
>part of the process of transpiration, trees and other plants will carry 
>hydrocarbons disolved in the ground water into the tree, and then it will 
>blow off in to the air.
>
>Is it therefore correct to say that trees are only responsible for moving 
>the hydrocarbons from the soil to the air?  That is, they do not *create* 
>any of these things?  

I guess I wasn't clear enough.  Trees and other plants make and release
a variety of hydrocarbons -- terpenes -- that are responsible for many
plant odors.  Generally speaking, plant roots don't absorb hydrocarbons
in the soil very efficiently.

>If so, then the question really is, how did the hydrocarbons such as 
>dioxins get into the ground?

PAHs, PCBs and dioxins get into the soil from the atmosphere -- except
for point source contamination.  And, for the most part, they get into
the air from human sources.  There's also some "recycling" of old
contaminants from soil and water reserviors.

>I'm sure Mr. Reagan would blame the ground-hogs. and that Mr Thorson 
>would believe him.
>
>-tony

Actually, Reagan was correct that "trees pollute," at least in a way.
However, as I noted, the rate limiting factor is [NOx], which mostly
comes from human sources.

That brings up an interesting point.  EPA could have attempted to
control either hydrocarbons or NOx to reduce smog and haze, and they
decided to regulate hydrocarbon emissions -- because it was less
expensive.  However, they found that less anthropogenic hydrocarbons
didn't necessarily mean less snog/haze -- given the background from
trees and other plants.  It turned out they need to reduce NOx 
emissions as well.  So it goes.


From eee@netcom.com Sat Mar 25 10:54:17 EST 1995
Article: 22126 of sci.bio
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!eee
From: eee@netcom.com (Mark Thorson)
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Message-ID: <eeeD5sqJA.HGB@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom is made out of redwood
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com> <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com> <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:18:46 GMT
Lines: 24
Sender: eee@netcom10.netcom.com
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:54427 sci.bio:22126

In article <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>,  <anthonyp@scripps.edu> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the citation...always a help. 
>I'm not in this field, but it seems to me what you are saying is that, as 
>part of the process of transpiration, trees and other plants will carry 
>hydrocarbons disolved in the ground water into the tree, and then it will 
>blow off in to the air.
>Is it therefore correct to say that trees are only responsible for moving 
>the hydrocarbons from the soil to the air?  That is, they do not *create* 
>any of these things?  If so, then the question really is, how did the 
>hydrocarbons such as dioxins get into the ground?

Trees are loaded with hydrocarbons which they make themselves.  A number
of solvents, such as DMSO, are by-products of the forest products industry.
Unless you live in coal country or on top of a chemical waste dump, there
won't be much hydrocarbons in the soil.

>I'm sure Mr. Reagan would blame the ground-hogs.  and that Mr Thorson 
>would believe him.

And if the Natural Resources Defense Council said Rush Limbaugh emits 10%
of the methane going into the atmosphere, I'm sure anthonyp would send
them $15 to do something about it.



From anthonyp@scripps.edu Sat Mar 25 10:55:05 EST 1995
Article: 22252 of sci.bio
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.mathworks.com!udel!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!scripps.edu!usenet
From: anthonyp@scripps.edu
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:04:35 PST
Organization: The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3kvcfb$ilt@riscsm.scripps.edu>
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com>
   <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com> <3kkbro$e3s@riscsm.scripps.edu>
   <eeeD5sqJA.HGB@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tony_pc.scripps.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:54720 sci.bio:22252


In article <eeeD5sqJA.HGB@netcom.com>, <eee@netcom.com> writes:

> >I'm sure Mr. Reagan would blame the ground-hogs.  and that Mr Thorson 
> >would believe him.
> 
> And if the Natural Resources Defense Council said Rush Limbaugh emits 
10%
> of the methane going into the atmosphere, I'm sure anthonyp would send
> them $15 to do something about it.
> 

Sorry, no.  That would be like taking the republican approach to balancing 
the budget by targetting catagories that make up small proportions of the 
budget while ignoring those that account for 80% of it.

I thought Paul W.'s analogy was reasonable...Since things die everyday, it 
must be OK to commit murder.

One also must keep in mind that most of the volitile hydrocarbons plants 
produce have biological roles in the ecosystem.  The same cannot be said 
for most of that produced from human industry.
I don't think I would lump the D-limonine produced by my lemon tree 
in there with dioxin.

tony


From eee@netcom.com Sat Mar 25 10:56:52 EST 1995
Article: 22105 of sci.bio
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.environment
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!eee
From: eee@netcom.com (Mark Thorson)
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Message-ID: <eeeD5rBJu.781@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom smokes cigars
References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com> <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:57:30 GMT
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.bio:22105 sci.environment:54385

In article <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com>, Jim Cook <jimcook@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com>, 
>eee@netcom.com (Mark Thorson) says:
>>
>>I've crossposted this to sci.environment, where it should have gone in
>>the first place.  Someone there might have the information you seek,
>>however I think you'll be a bit surprised.  At least when you're talking
>>about the hydrocarbons that contribute to haze and smog, trees CAUSE
>>pollution, they don't cure it.
>
>Simonich and Hites (1994) estimated that most of the atmosphere to soil
>flux of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) occurs via absorption 
>to plants.  They suggested that this may also be the case for other low
>vapor pressure and hydrophobic atmospheric pollutants -- such as 
>polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, dibenzofurans and biphenyls.

Polycyclic aromatics and the other compounds you mention are supposedly evil
chemical wastes, but are produced in small quantity.  Unless you happen to
live in Seveso, Italy, the real meaning of the word pollution mostly translates
into smog.  Trees, lawns, etc. produce volatile organic compounds (VOC's)
which become smog.

>It's true that trees and other plants release hydrocarbons to the 
>atmosphere, and that these hydrocarbons contribute to the formation 
>of smog and haze.  However, the rate limiting reactant in this 
>photochemical reaction is NOx, which is largely anthropogenic in most
>urban areas.

Around here, bread-baking plants have been required, at great expense, to
install scrubbers to remove ethanol from the proofing rooms for bread
dough (ethanol is produced by the yeast which make bread rise).  These
hydrocarbons are taken very seriously by the air pollution people.

>...Simonich, S.L. and Hites, R.A. (1994) Importance of Vegetation
>in Removing Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons from the Atmosphere.
>Nature, 370, 49-51.




From winalski@gemgrp.enet.dec.com Sat Mar 25 10:57:24 EST 1995
Article: 22127 of sci.bio
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From: winalski@gemgrp.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: sci.bio,sci.environment
Subject: Re: Biology Question on Trees and Polution
Date: 21 Mar 1995 03:27:17 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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References: <3ju7pe$s4m@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> <eeeD5Dx4u.DMv@netcom.com> <3kdp7e$dma@news.panix.com> <eeeD5rBJu.781@netcom.com>
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu sci.bio:22127 sci.environment:54429

In article <eeeD5rBJu.781@netcom.com>,
eee@netcom.com (Mark Thorson) wrote:
> 
> Polycyclic aromatics and the other compounds you mention are supposedly evil
> chemical wastes, but are produced in small quantity.  Unless you happen to
> live in Seveso, Italy, the real meaning of the word pollution mostly translates
> into smog.  Trees, lawns, etc. produce volatile organic compounds (VOC's)
> which become smog.

Of course trees, lawns, etc. produce volatile organic compounds.
They always have, and always will.  The entire biosphere has evolved
to tolerate, and in many cases benefit from, these kinds and levels
of emissions.

The problem is the extra man-made VOCs, above and beyond the
naturally-occurring ones, different in very many cases from the
natural VOCs, and generated in vastly higher concentrations than
the natural VOCs, are not something that the biosphere has evolved
to cope with.

The Reaganite argument, which boils down to "trees generate VOCs
so we don't have to worry about man's air pollution" is a false
one.  It's like observing that death and killing occur all over
the natural world, so therefore murder must be OK.
> 
> Around here, bread-baking plants have been required, at great expense, to
> install scrubbers to remove ethanol from the proofing rooms for bread
> dough (ethanol is produced by the yeast which make bread rise).  These
> hydrocarbons are taken very seriously by the air pollution people.

You didn't mention where "here" is, so I can't really pass
judgement on the possible contribution of bakeries to the
overall organic compound pollution problem in your area.  But
I'll wager that if the same amount of money were spent to take
cars that fail emissions tests off the road permanently by
buying them from their owners, it would go further to reduce
air pollution than scrubbers in bakeries.  Unless your community
has a lot of bakeriers and few cars.

--PSW



From thsiang@uoguelph.ca Wed Oct 12 22:45:14 EDT 1994
Article: 6113 of sci.bio.ecology
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca!gadwall.cs.uoguelph.ca!thsiang
From: thsiang@uoguelph.ca (Tom Hsiang)
Newsgroups: sci.bio.ecology
Subject: golf courses
Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:09:02 GMT
Organization: University of Guelph
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NNTP-Posting-Host: gadwall.cs.uoguelph.ca
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There's a recent article out on fate on golf course pesticides:

Primi, P., M.H. Surgan and T. Urban. 1994. Leaching potential of turf 
care pesticides: a case study of Long Island Golf Courses.  Ground Water 
Monitoring and Remediation 14(3):129-138.

Real information may help this thread.



From DLMaitre@forjnk.csir.co.za Mon Nov 28 16:30:13 EST 1994
Article: 7383 of sci.bio.ecology
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:02:00 EST
Sender: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs,
              news" <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.BITNET>
From: "le Maitre, Dave" <DLMaitre@forjnk.csir.co.za>
Subject: Re: Water Hyacinth (fwd)
Lines: 37


Don Bass wrote:
>Friends:
>    I had suggested that John Dietling might forward my questions and
>issues concerning the water hyacinth to Ecolog, however I decided to
>subscribe and as my questions directly..
>    John Dietling has informed my that the plant and duckweed is
>currently used in Austin, Texas as a wastewater strategy.
>    The Chinese were evidently using a long fiber of the hyacinth to
>their advantage.
>    Thank you for your interest, if you should be able to response to
>any of my questions.
>    Don Bass
This plant has been a horrendous problem in South Africa but is now
reasonably under control as far as I know.  If I remember correctly (article
was in an engineering journal) it has been used extensively in Europe for
water recycling. It apparently has an exceptional ability (at least compared
to non-aquatic plants) to accumulate heavy metal ions and complexes in its
tissues. The pictures I remember showed it being grown in large shallow
dams. The plants were regularly harvested and incinerated to extract the
metals etc.

David
============================================================================
==
David Le Maitre
Forestek CSIR
Private Bag X5011
Stellenbosch
South Africa
Tel +27 21 883-9771
Fax +27 21 883-8394
E-mail dlmaitre@forjnk.csir.co.za
============================================================================
==


------------ End Forwarded Message -------------


From bass@tenet.edu Mon Nov 28 16:31:25 EST 1994
Article: 7382 of sci.bio.ecology
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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 18:29:00 EST
Sender: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs,
              news" <ECOLOG-L@UMDD.BITNET>
From: Don Bass <bass@tenet.edu>
Subject: Water Hyacinth (fwd)
Lines: 52

Friends:
    I had suggested that John Dietling might forward my questions and
issues concerning the water hyacinth to Ecolog, however I decided to
subscribe and as my questions directly..
    John Dietling has informed my that the plant and duckweed is
currently used in Austin, Texas as a wastewater strategy.
    The Chinese were evidently using a long fiber of the hyacinth to
their advantage.
    Thank you for your interest, if you should be able to response to
any of my questions.
    Don Bass
Collegeof the Mainland
Texas City , Texas

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 09:58:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Don Bass <bass@tenet.edu>
To: John Louis Dettling <dettling@tenet.edu>
Cc: dperkins@tenet.edu
Subject: Water Hyacinth

John:
    I thought you might be on that list.
    Here are my issues/question related to water hyacinth.
    During the late October flood in Southeast Texas there was a huge
migration of this plant, violet flower,  pale violet, multi-blossom.
These plants came from Lake Conroe, the San Jacinto River, and Armand bayou.
    I believe that returning salinity levels have killed them.
Discussion about them rendered several interesting ideas. Their mass and
level of competition is not good news to smooth cordgrass. The hyacinths
cover up young cordgrass, I am told. The detritis is not really necessary
to nutrient rich Galveston Bay.
    I am told that nothing co-evolved with them.
    I am also told that they started in this country at the World's
Fair, in New Orleans as a garden party favor, a bowl from each table. It is
also said that a dollar or two is added to water bills in Florida, as hyaciinth
removal expense.
    A professor at A & M in Galveston told me that the plant produces
long fibers that are useful and are processed into marketable products in
China.
    Also the plant is valuable as a filter in purifying water.
    I would appreciated any information that Ecolog-List can develop.
I continue to be amazed and interested in the very unclear and irrational
definitions of trash and nusinance plants
    Could you pass this along. You might also slice me the
instructions for joining  ecolog-L
    Don

"Will Rogers Never Met Newt."



------------ End Forwarded Message -------------


From jlw15@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:09:07 -0400
From: "Jennifer L. Wilkins" <jlw15@cornell.edu>
To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: water purification 

I am trying to find the name and address of a man in the north east U.S.
who has setup a working water purification system using plants.He had a
large green house filled with various vessels containing plants and water
animals and microbes and was able to completely clean polluted water. He
was featured in a television program dealing with world water problems. The
program was with David Suzuki and aired last spring. Thanks

Jennifer L. Wilkins, Ph.D., R.D.
Senior Extension Associate
jlw15@Cornell.edu

Ishmael knows.


 ä   .    ¨ ô ..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From olmstead@ridgecrest.ca.us Sun Mar 26 12:16:44 EST 1995
Article: 3796 of sci.agriculture
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,sci.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!news.ridgecrest.ca.us!annex010.ridgecrest.ca.us!user
From: olmstead@ridgecrest.ca.us (Karl Olmstead)
Subject: Re: Wood ash as a soil amendments
Message-ID: <olmstead-2503951949360001@annex010.ridgecrest.ca.us>
Sender: usenet@ridgecrest.ca.us (Ridgenet Usenet admin)
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References: <D5yz91.6Gx@cruzio.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:49:36 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.sustainable.agriculture:5862 sci.agriculture:3796

In article <D5yz91.6Gx@cruzio.com>, bake@cruzio.com wrote:

> I'm looking for info on the use of bio-ash as a soil amendment, mainly
> from wood-fired co-generation plants. Any idea of the long-term risks
> to soil structure, chemistry and ecology? Any human health risks
> identified of concern? 
> 
> +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
> |   Brian Baker, Technical Coordinator                |
> |   California Certified Organic Farmers (CCOF)       |
> |   1115 Mission St., Santa Cruz, CA  95060           |
> |   phone: 408-423-2263   fax: 408-423-4528           |
> |   ccof@igc.apc.org      bake@cruzio.com             |
> +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+



Perhaps the place to start would be getting an analysis for heavy metals. 
I would expect them to be concentrated in the ash.  Whether or not they're
present probably depends on the type of wood and where it grew.

And, as you probably know, addition of ashes to already alkaline soil
(most desert soils) is a mistake.  Here in the middle of the Mojave
desert, we put a lot of effort into reducing soil pH.

-- 
olmstead@ridgecrest.ca.us

Karl Olmstead; K&F Engineering
5121 W. Reeves Ave.
Ridgecrest, CA. 93555


From esact@selway.umt.edu Sun Nov 27 22:04:17 EST 1994
Article: 4624 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oit-mail2news-gateway
From: esact@selway.umt.edu (Tony Tweedale)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: wood chip-digesting fungi and ground nuts
Date: 28 Nov 1994 01:56:53 -0000
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the usfs wood science lab in madison, wi (1 gifford pinchot drive) puts 
out a lot of papers on fungal degradation (applications include paper 
pulping, wood protection and toxics degrafation). the stars seem to be the
white rot family, tho the brown rot family is also studied.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
tony tweedale            |TEMPERATE BUT ENDANGERED PLANET.
recycle missoula, inc.   |ENJOYS WEATHER, NORTHERN LIGHTS,
224 e. pine st (2)       |CONTINENTAL DRIFT. SEEKS CARING
missoula mt 59802-4541   |RELATIONSHIP WITH INTELLIGENT LIFE
tel.: 406-542-1709       |FORM. (Friends of the Earth)
internet: esact@selway.umt.edu




