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RE: [compost_tea] chelate question for the chemists out there



Dear Dr. E:

Thanks for the info.  I still have a couple of questions.

I was thinking about all this in terms of applying a chelated product such 
as chelated iron to a plant.  The chelation process would have occured at 
the manufacturer's lab before I got the product.  Many chelated iron 
products use EDTA but I've also seen lignin as the chelating agent.

I was under the impression that beneficial microbes were required to 
separate the chelated molecule BEFORE it actually went inside the plant. 
 Apparently this is not so.  Apparently, the chelated molecule goes into 
the plant intact.

What happens to the chelated molecule AFTER it goes into the plant?

Can the plant utilize the chelated molecule in tact?

Are there beneficial microbes inside the plant that separate the chelated 
molecule (ex. into EDTA and iron) so the plant can use it?

Are there other biological processes that go on inside of the plant that 
break apart the chelated molecule so the plant can use it?

What happens to the chelation material (ETDA, lignin, etc.) after the plant 
utilizes the metal molecule?

Thanks,
Paulette



-----Original Message-----
From:	soilfoodweb@aol.com [SMTP:soilfoodweb@aol.com]
Sent:	Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:46 PM
To:	compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
Subject:	Re: [compost_tea] chelate question for the chemists out there

I like the "chemical" description of chelation.  Sorry, being sarcastic.

"the chelation process removes the positive charge from metals [such as 
iron], allowing the neutral or slightly negatively
charged chelated molecule to slide through the pores on the leaf [I assume 
they mean the stomata] and root surface more rapidly."

Any biological cell has a net negative charge.  So a positively charged 
cation has trouble getting through the leaf surface, either through stomate 
(usually easier to get through, simple movement of materials can result in 
movement through), or through individual cells.

In order to speed uptake, cations need to be neutralized, and the typical 
biological way to do this is to attach the cation to a protein.  In this 
normal situation, it takes active, living biology to perform the chelation 
process.

Chelation can be done by addition of chelating agents, but those chelating 
agents are normally NOT present in soil.  EDTA for example is not found in 
soil to speak of, or at least I know of no evidence that it is.  Show me 
the data if I have missed something though.

So, chelation isn't something that just happens.  It requires biological 
energy to make the molecules that neutralize the positive charge on 
cations.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com


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