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Re: [compost_tea] adding VAM ?



OK, this has gone far enough.   

First, Mike Amaranthus makes many more products than a tablet of VAM spores.  Go look at the Mycorrhizal Applications website to see the truth about that. 

Please read what Amaranthus has written if you want to know what he has worked on.  Don't take a competitor's remarks as being gospel.   Check out what people say, especially when they are trying to flame the competition. 

Mycorrhizal Applications has some quite good endomycorrhizal folks working for the company.  Their mix of VAM species in their general inoculum is standard.  They have chosen a mix of species that colonize in arid, semi-arid and mesic conditions.  Typically what they sell you will include both VAM and ecto-mycorrhizal spores. 

I support Mycorrhizal Applications as one of  the best inocula (but please note, that's ONE OF the best, implying there are other good ones), because their product has ALWAYS come out in the top three in any trial that I have worked on, or observed.  My criteria for top?  The colonization of the  roots has been greatest as compared to other products.  I don't generally care how many spores are present, because spores can be present, but not viable.  Spores may be not capable of growing in the conditions of a person's field. 

Mycorrhizal Applications have consistent results.  Plant Health Care also has consistent results.  They have sometimes not recognized that you have to understand ALL the biology in soil in order to have a good idea what is going to work.  Ted St. John's products have not been consistent from trial to trial, so I do not typically recommend them.

Could my point-of-view change?  Sure, but ONLY if the data show my views should change.  The data have to come from independent testing facilities, not from in-house trials.   Mycorrhizal Applications has given their product to nearly every University on the west coast, and the trials are clear that their product does what they claim.  The data are on their website.  NO ONE can say that there is no proof that mycorrhizal colonization - VAM or ecto - improves plant production.  OK, not always bigger plants, but generally, we don't care about that either.  We want more flowers, deeper color, better flavor in the fruit, better shelf life, better nutrition, less water requirement.  Data are being generated that show these things.  And of course, the rest of the biology helps too.

Whose claims do you believe?  Go look at the websites.  If all you see are testimonials, no names given, or only family member names, or names of people associated or employed by the company, then start being suspicious.  I am not talking specifically about any company, here, ok?  This is a general case. 

Actually, I am thinking specifically about the worst offender that I know, but it's an entirely different product than VAM.  But a great way to remember all the things that snake oil salesmen use in trying to charm you into buying their product.  Smoke and mirrors.  I keep getting phone calls from people who bought the smoke and mirrors....

If you see experiments, good data, then ok, comfort zone is improving.  Even better is if there are independent growers whose e-mail or phone numbers are on the website.  Call them up and talk with them about their experience. 

Don't trust someone who is a dealer for the company - they are biased.  They want to sell you something, and some people will say anything to make a sale.  Talk to growers who have no stake in the success of the business to determine if the product works.

With mycorrhizal fungi, talk to the manufacturer and ask about data showing results IN THE SAME CLIMATE AS YOU.  Ask them about specificity of your plants for different species of mycorrhizal fungi. 

And there are specificities.  Not so much for plant species, but for habitat.   That's what Tom J. was talking about.  Don't go twisting his words to try to attack a competitor.  That's poor form. 

Palms on the beach in Waikiki have a different set of VAM cultivars growing on them than palms in Las Vegas.  Can we predict which species will do best in which conditions?  Not aware of that kind of information being available in the scientific literature.  Some of the manufacturers do know that kind of information, however. 
You have to talk to them. 

There is specificity with respect to habitat, climate, conditions in the soil.  That's why typically only one or two species of VAM colonize, even when there may have been 6 to 10 species in the inoculum. 

With time, as season changes, as weather conditions change, other species in the inoculum could wake up and colonize as well.  But probably even more important in the long run, is that the mycorrhizal assocation is established, and therefore the benefit to the plant has begun.  INDIGENOUS mycorrhizal fungi can more easily establish, as well.  So the conversion has begun.  The inoculum gets things started. 

So, criticism is fine, as long as the criticism is backed by data.  Evaluate the honesty of salespeople.  Take a look at websites.  Talk to the sales force.

It would be great to have people evaluate different websites and offer their opinions.  Report back to the list serve with your evaluation of who knows what they are talking about. 

Enough hype.

Ah, if you check the SFI website, and think it's terrible, could you say something to me first?  Give us a chance to remedy the problem before you flame...... ok?   I'm sure any business person would appreciate the help.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
SFI Oregon, USA
SFI Australia
SFI New York
SFI Europe
SFI New Zealand

"Hope is not a feeling. It is not the belief that things will turn out well, but the conviction that what we are doing makes sense, no matter how things turn out."   --  Vaclav Havel, former President of the Czech Republic


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