[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[compost_tea] Re: Re: Molasses Danger Zone... Other Correction....



Please Doc E or Kirk W (Doc K?:) say something more about this before I
screw up even more...  I mis-read Russell's data looking for the number on
the odd bacterial results yesterday.  Correction: His sample #2 used 1.35%
molasses, which does appear to be close to Doc and Kirk W 1% molasses
concern.  Remember the "danger" was about ecoli.  None was found at
.1%, .5%, 5%.  Some was found at 1%.  His sample #1 was at .17%.

But if no ecoli is in compost, there is no real danger, just different B/F
dynamics?  "Danger" seems overly dramatic.  I feel like I'm in the weeds.
Ecoli is not relevant as USNOP promulgates, nor do I remember how this
thread began.   They have a big beef problem, double entendre intended,
another set of dangers altogether.  Nothing to do with compost teas or
organic plant growing.

Russell's question about low bacteria is the more important one.  He got
results which run counter to what Doc E suggests --

> From: soilfoodweb@aol.com [SMTP:soilfoodweb@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:57 PM
> To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Molasses Danger Zone
>
> Rates of molasses depend on what you are trying to achieve.
>
> Just a little bacterial growth?  Then low concentrations.
>
> Fungal enhancement?  Then above 5%.  Yes, that's alot of molasses, but it
> works as a sticker too at the high concentrations.
[snip]

Russell used a lower concentration in #1 and got more bacteria and fungi.
With a higher concentration in #2 he produced lower but bigger fungi and
amazingly low bacteria.  Seems like there's something else going on that may
not be related to molasses.

Judi -- yes your numbers looks right, and yes this is getting too
complicated.  12.5 gallons per batch seems both expensive and a lot of work.
By my reckoning that's somewhere above 100# (50 kg?) of molasses, which I
haven't enjoyed humping around...  Least expensive I can find is $25 per 250
gallons, which seems like a lot, and most are looking at more bucks, I hear.
Can think of easier, better stickers, too.

Hopefully not to make this much more complicated, but:  My dictionary
defines "blackstrap" molasses as "a mixture of molasses and rum, vinegar,
etc."
Alcohols and vinegars are not supposed to be generally good in teas.  Maybe
that's the whole problem here?  They just got drunk and collapsed...?

> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:57:44 -0000
> From: "russell_snodgrass" <jaxanrus@xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: Active Bacteria Biomass

> I have just started brewing my own AACT here in New Zealand, we had
> the last two brews tested at SFI(New Zealand), the total bacterial
> biomass came back very high, but the active bacteria biomass came
> back low, if anyone can help me better understand why the active is
> low while the total is high, it will be much appreciated!
> Here are the figures.

> Sample 1
> Bacteria
> Active-27.6
> Total-1041
> Fungi
> Active-5.05
> Total-19.83
> Diameter-2.5

> Food- 0.17% blackstrap mollases
>       300ml humic acid
>       1 pound of seaweed powder
>       24 hour brew cycle 1300 litre brew
>       lowest temp 16.5 celcius

> Sample 2
> Bacteria
> Active-0.3
> Total-1009
> Fungi
> Active-2.38
> Total-8.13
> Diameter-3.3

> Food- 1.35% blackstrap mollases
>       750ml humic acid
>       5 pounds of seaweed powder
>       24 hour brew cycle 1300 litre brew
>       lowest temp 18 celcius, out side temp 5 celcius
> Sample two would go into the minus on the oxygen meter within minutes
> of taking a sample out of the brewer, so there had to be a lot of
> activity happening i would of thought, (sample 1 took 20 minutes),
> both samples were tested 7 to 8 hours after the brewing had stopped.
> Are the bacteria going to sleep befor we test them?
> If there is a high total bacteria biomass were they all once active
> in the tea at some stage through the brew cycle?

> Thanks Russell

Some perspective for folks new to CT:  Molasses was a staple in making CT
until USDA via NOP whacked it early last year as disallowed organically. No
wonder we're still confused about it.  We've been led there by US gov,
erroneously.  But I'd be willing to bet more folks on this listserve are NOT
using it now than are, as Justin and Jeff suggest.

Molasses is not necessary but can be beneficial.  Molasses is not dangerous,
unless it does contain rum or vinegar, I suppose.  As crazy as it may sound,
we're gonna learn how to dance with it.  To the tune of Waltzing Matilda...
all together now... 1 - 2 - 3...  Dan-cing Mo-las-ses...

Right.  Molasses can be beneficial in compost teas.  And it can be a problem
because of rapid bacterial growth - "blooms" - molasses and bacteria can
pull
oxygen in water down to anaerobic tea levels fast.  Can be another problem
if there are pathogens in the compost.  Should be used carefully, especially
with manure composts, and sparingly in any event, imo.  Bacteria, being the
fastest most adaptable organisms on earth, don't need a lot of
encouragement, normally.

On molassees (what is the plural of molasses?) I depart from some things
heard here recently in that I think there may be a place for sulfured
molasses in fruit, tree and vine growing.  Hmm?

Jeff, did molasses figure in a CT poll?  Not suggesting one, just wanting to
remember there was something about that earlier.  Doesn't seem dangerous
used appropriately.

Kirk L







------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Coral Calcium for Greater Health. 1 month supply - $23.95
(1 bottle, 90 tablets, 400mg each with Magnesium & Vitamin D)
http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2805&lp=calcium2.asp
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mcIe3D/v9VGAA/ySSFAA/0PSxlB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/