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[compost_tea] Friday Thoughts



I've been holding my breath on several threads posed here recently, and I
like to visit with work friends on Fridays when I can.  Here's a bunch of
responses to different subjects from this week and before.  Would like to be
shorter but have at least broken by subject... I think there's some relevant
stuff here.

Re: Home Tests

Doc E!  Jeff!  There was supposed to be a key item (hand microscope and test
kit?) for home testing available Aug 1.  It has now been a year...:-)  Where
is our real time tea test?

Re: Aerobically Fermented CT & Weeds (from 8/5)

Lynton -- No screws loose far as I can tell, guy.  No apology needed either.
You just flipped aerobic and anaerobic, thinking about anaerobic teas,
probably triggered by "fermented."  Easy for me to do the same.

I have heard of aerobic fermentation.  Believe fermenting has been more
often anaerobic, though.  I'd like to hear more about aerobic fermenting
processes, Tim.

And yeah, Lynton, I have same questions as you.  (in support of your
flip..:)  I think I've even said it before here.  Seems to me several BD
preps are anaerobic, and it seems to me there is value in anaerobic preps
and teas.  I brought it up before specifically in the context of weeds, I
believe.  Other uses seem beneficial, too.

As you suggest, I don't think anaerobes in tea are long for this world once
exposed to air.  It's the other stuff -- acetic acids in vinegars, alcohols
and other acids, nasty but natural chemicals -- that could perform a
"bio-cidal" function on weeds.  This is not an oxymoron.  "Bios" are
"ciding" every day in natural biologic competition.

I want to remember Rachel Carson or Eve de Balfour coined the term "biocide"
years ago to describe the range of "pesticides, herbicides, fungicides,
vermicides," ...all the chemi-cides, now grouped as "pesticides."  Maybe
along with ACT, meaning aerated compost tea, we could also drive a
convention of "biocides" meaning naturally safe weed killers, NOT soil or
water pollutants.  Certainly they would not kill worms.  I suspect repeated
AT applications as with ACT would be the case vs "whack 'em all right now"
RoundUp practice, but not nearly as many apps as today's fruit crops need,
for example.

Here's a quote that poses some amusing thoughts for me, from J. I. Rodale,
Pay Dirt, 1945: "Can the use of chemical fertilizers in the orchard be
abandoned, and the organic system used there exclusively?  If you tell a
farmer that he can raise fruit without spraying he will look at you with
that queer expression that seems to question your sanity."

Clearly "spraying" is something different today with ACT, maybe AT.
"Biocide" could be different, too.  Personally, I always question both
sanity and authority.  Rodale was right on, imo.

>    From: "Tim Kiphart" <kiphart@ev1.net>
> Subject: Aerobically Fermented CT
>
> Some makers of CT are using a highly aerobic fermentation process to
produce
> what they are calling Compost Tea.  This may be part of the reason to
> qualify what we are doing as ACT.
>
> Could somebody speak to this process?  While certainly not "alive", such a
> product is bound to have some good qualities...fertility elements,
> polysaccharides, certain enzymes.  One producer  is trialing his product
> with USDA, and initial results are positive - fertility, plant growth,
> organic matter building.

"Aerobically fermented compost tea" sounds like AFCT to me.  Anaerobic teas
sound like AT.  Not to be confused with ACT, requiring aeration as part of
the making.  Could be stirred (this is all a tea pumped machine is doing,
actually - air is introduced same as in big fat wooden kitchen fork
principle...) but not steeped.  Steeped teas are likely AT's, seems to me.
"SCT" would be stirred compost tea, not steeped.

Air pumped tea is likely best, but "aerobic" and its various levels play in
all this stuff, hmm?  "A" can stand for aerobic or anaerobic.  "Aerated" is
a more appropriate word for ACT.  If you add no nutrients to a compost tea
stirred or water pumped in open air over a short time you are not likely to
get anaerobic
conditions, just a natural, "NT" - a nutrient tea with some critters, hmm?

ACT, AFCT, SCT, AT, & NT.  Could be another concept.

Then there's the potential for other AT benefits:

> Message: 5
>    Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:48:16 +1200
>    From: rlbct <rlbct@clear.net.nz>
> Subject: Re: Aerobically Fermented CT
>
> My take on anaerobic ct ( also act !;)
> it is alive, just not necessarily aerobic;
> it depends on whether the organisms are beneficial or pathogenic as to
> whether the results would be good;
> I'm completely guessing, but is it possible that much of it could be
> ambidextrous ( I mean 'facultive aerobes'?): this latter would explain how
> an anaerobic ct could be beneficial as a foliar spray in particular.  I'm
> also guessing that if you spray leaves with true anaerobes that they will
> die or go inactive due to the O2 environment.
>
> Related to this subject, I am wondering what status the bio-dynamic
> preparations have - o2 wise.
>
> I hope someone can clear up the murky water...
> Lynton

I've gone on too long again, trust oxygen and elevation, may not have
cleared any murk, but I have to respond to Dennis and Chris, and mention
SoilSoup and other stuff, too:

> From: "dkemnitz2000" <dkemnitz2000@yahoo.com>
> Subject: no-till farming
>
> Would it be possible to grow  corn profitably in the midwest using no
> till,ie  no discing/plowing/ripping, no pesticides, no herbicides, no
> added NPK fertilizers while using ACT appropriately(as necessary?)?

Goodness I hope so, guy.  Imagine that.  Organic corn, clearly grown with
less input costs and land compaction (not to mention other soil and environ
costs...) in the heart of US corn country, no less.  Around here (not corn
country) farmers tell me "organic corn is a pain in the butt" so we don't
get much.  If you can work it out, I think you've got something good, but
I'd think you would still want to turn in the stover or stubble.  One or two
passes, or three including harvest sure beats 10 or more.  Rodale book above
has some interesting two-step treatments, including stover, I think.  Crop
rotation also still seems important, as would simply keeping the ground
covered, a no-till natural. With green manures, stover or stubble, and ACT
you might not need to use compost?  ACT as a main rudder applied with last
discing and then per crop needs?   Seems to me it could be.  Don't know
whether no-till will work well with large row crop fields, happy to hear.

Re:  Weed Database

Great work on weeds, Chris.  Please don't use Word.  We could learn a lot
with that database.  Have you talked with Merla about this yet?:-)

Re: SoilSoup Outrage?

I've visited a couple and heard reports of several other "Soil Soup
Kitchens" in local retail nurseries.  As far as detectable, there is no
compost in soilsoup's "liquid compost."  It's made only with their original
"nutrient" mix and water.  Odd but not harmful, apparently.  I find this
outrageous, a misrepresentation of compost tea.  What they are peddling is
probably ok but it's also not compost tea at all!  How do we fix this?

Re: USNOP & CT

I wrote this prior to a response to Paul Sachs today.  Thanks, Paul.  If
you've been around a while, you know my favorite whipping boy on CT is
USNOP, in response to their idiocy on compost tea.  Upshot is you can't use
compost tea and be officially blessed by USNOP, though most certifiers are
supporting it, and there's no way folks can be stopped from using it.  I
think USNOP is still way out on a stupid lunch and really slow on the uptake
of compost tea.

Re: Airflow

Air flow per gallon of tea, with an air pump or compressor, ignoring
water pumps, is a subject we've batted around some.  It seems important for
stabilizing aerobic notions and making good aerated compost teas.  Bob N is
the only tea machine maker who has spoken clearly on that, using 1cfm for
thirty gallons, 1.5cfm for fifty gallons, and now 3.0 for 250.  I have
tested several machines and found air flows from .2cfm air/cf water to 4
plus cfm per cf water.  Tea is ok even in extremes.  Where is air flow best
for a steady aerated tea?

Where is that real time home tea test?

-- Kirk L













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