Dennis - You're right of course, it can't be done
with a single test. It wouldn't be fair whatever the outcome. Any
rigorous test would have at least four repetitions of the same experiment.
Maybe there are enough machines out there that we would have at least two
identical machines for each type manufactured. If there were not really
significant differences then that might tell the story. I'm open to
anything that will actually sort out some of these variables, even those we
expect in the lab results. Maybe Elaine would tell us what the acceptable
limits are for her lab testing in the sense of one sample being run multiple
times as a quality control test. I agree that there are limits to what any
lab can do. I don't know what to think at this point, I've never sent
paired, blind samples before. I would pay for one of the samples though if
someone paid for the other.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:49
PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
---Dave, I was trying to point out there are many variables
included even in the testing, even of objective tests. I run a flour
sample here (myself) and do all the sample prep one day and do it again
the next day and get different numbers (vitamins B1 and B2 for
instance) each day. New variables the next day? Sample changed? Usually the
numbers are close but what do you do when it comes time for
disposition esp when numbers are not close? Maybe average, maybe rerun
sample, maybe get another sample? Maybe re-write the specs.? Maybe throw
out one for some reason. Anyway experimental design will be important in
the brewer tests. Dennis
In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "David
Loring" <dloring3@c...> wrote: > Dennis - I agree with about 95%
of what you've said but there is a need for testing in my mind, not with
someones hard found recipe, but with a mutually agreed to compost and food
of some kind. Unless we can get information about the variability of
these machines then we're all on our own a bit and progress, much needed,
will be difficult. It's hard to extrapolate to new situations unless
we nail down the variables one at a time. I think the strength of
this forum is found in combining our sometimes expensive
experiences. I've spent a couple thousand on testing myself without
any product except that I teach. Those of us in the non-commercial
world stand to gain the most from sharing. If I can pay for only one
report and get the answers from 5-10 others I'd consider it money well
spent. > Dave > ----- Original Message -----
> From: dkemnitz2000 > To:
compost_tea@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, August 28,
2003 6:04 PM > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT >
> > --- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "tomjasz"
<tom@l...> wrote: > > >
> > > > >
Unfortunately, but understandably the developers of the nutrient
> > packs have invested thousands of dollars in their
"recipes". Two > > developers I have conversations
with aren't particularly excited > > about having a
competition. They are busy with their farmers, fruit >
> growers and viticulturists developing successful operations based
> on > > sustainable practice and
using ACT as a part of the program. The > >
controlled testing has been going on with several manufacturers for
> > several years. The idea of a competition borders on
the ridiculous > > from my perspective. What would
such a competition achieve? > > Apparently several tea
systems are producing stellar results. Some > > find
the need to blather about and have NOT achieved any consistent
> > successes.(comment not directed at list!) I continue
to suspect > they > > bandy about
only the best of their tests. Other manufacturers > >
consistently produce high quality tea without competitions or this
> > list. Please don't misunderstand that
comment...there are over 300 > > members and about
ten posters!!! > > > > Thanks for
the invitation Tom! I already wrote Brewer Bob and this
> list two opinions earlier today which I cancelled for
consideration > to
all. > I'd have to say my bottom line is
cost perhaps like many of you. > I believe in
tests, like Jeff. I am a lab tech in a food testing lab
> and don't make enough money to hire tests on tea
I'll use on a 65 > acre farm. In our lab we use
standard testing procedures. Some >
samples(duplicates) are sent to other labs to see how we compare to
> them. You might be suprised but they don't get the
same answer we > get any way. Even labs(and
brewers) must deal with accuracy and >
precision. > So I'll be brewing, testing
applying and reporting based on what I > glean from
this board and seminars and cd's and ATTRA and whatever
> else might work without hiring many experts. I
guess this is better > than spraying pesticides
herbicides and fertilizers. Dennis Kemnitz > >
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