[compost_tea] Re: Making compost tea extract

From: mikethewormguy <mikethewormguy_at_aol.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 03:35:24 -0000



Tad,

You are what you eat. As you are aware, this holds true for microbes. The=
 food source can provide an advantage to a specific group of microbes becau=
se they can metabolize them better. This can have a direct effect on diver=
sity. For example, a highly cellulose based feed will typically choose for=
 fungi over bacteria.

The amount of fulvic acid within a commercial humic acid liquid can vary de=
pending upon the source and extraction procedure.

Humic Acid's chelating ability can be seen as 'poor' compared to other chel=
ators, like EDTA, for example. The chelating ability will differ based upon=
 the mineral also.


Mike Flynn
Green Quest LLC
BioSpecific LLC






 

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, Tad Hussey <tadhussey_at_...> wrote:
>
> How do you know you're losing much diversity by adding a food source? I'd=
 like to see some more information on that. Any percentages relative to br=
ewing length or foodstock added? Any links on humic acid being a poor chela=
tor would be appreciated as well. I am aware that the humic acid molecule i=
s too large to penetrate the cellular walls of the plant, however fulvic ac=
id is a component of most commercial humic acid products that I'm aware of.=
 
>
> Tad
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 18, 2011, at 11:44 PM, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
> > You lose diversity because you are feeding only some of the organisms. =
Their numbers will then rise, so they will form a larger % of the microbial=
 community. Are these microbes better suited to the job at hand when applie=
d to the soil or plant? I’m not saying don’t add foods, I=
’m just saying do it in moderation, apply a range of foods in small=
 measure, and most important of all have a large and diverse range of feeds=
tock when making your compost. Compost is the driver of the whole process. =
Be sure to keep the temperature in range, be sure the moisture is in range,=
 be sure the C:N ratio is in range. Use herbs and foods with low N as well =
as other foods with higher N. Woody plants tend to help control temperature=
 and favour fungi. Fungi are not well multiplied in a brewer. Compost shoul=
d be allowed to mature. Simple rules, judgement required.
> >
> > LCE is no different from ACT. A jet of water is better at removing micr=
obes from compost than placing compost in a bag and not even having a bubbl=
er in the bag.
> >
> > With regard to humic acid. Humic acid is a poor chelator. Its molecule =
size is much too large to gain ready access to plants through their leaves =
(stomata). Fulvic is the chelator for leaf application. Humic is a fungal f=
ood. It has a high CEC. Its right place is in the soil.
> >
> > SS
> >
> > (disclaimer: Well, that’s what I think anyway)
> >
> >
> >
> > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] =
On Behalf Of Tad Hussey
> > Sent: 18 March 2011 21:37
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Making compost tea extract
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> > Do you have any data to support this methodology? I'm not sure I see a=
n advantage to this method. Based on SS's comment, then wouldn't those LCE=
 organisms just get eaten by the active ACT organisms. As far as SS's post=
, I do agree that you will lose diversity over time (I've seen it many time=
 when I brew too long), however, I haven't seen any data to suggest that yo=
u're losing a large amount of your starting diversity in your compost by m=
aking an aerated compost tea.
> >
> > I'm not saying that what either of you stated is wrong, just that I hav=
en't seen any evidence to support it, but do find it to be curious. I thin=
k there's a lot we still need to find out, and wish there were more people =
out there doing research.
> >
> > I have to concur with Tim that I've found humic acid to be ineffective =
or even detrimental in large concentrations when used to make ACT. That be=
ing said, I think it has a bunch of other plant and soil benefits (primaril=
y chelation), but that it's properties as a microbial food source may be ov=
erstated.
> >
> >
> >
> > ~Tad
> >
> > From: mikethewormguy <mikethewormguy_at_...>
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, March 18, 2011 4:13:29 AM
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Making compost tea extract
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > a possible option to consider is to take the liquid compost extract LCE=
), subtract a portion volume out and make that volume into ACT. Then at the=
 time of application, you combine the LCE and ACT portions together to get =
both diversity and activity.
> >
> > I have used this 'combo' approach more for foliar applications.
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > But you would have more diversity, because foods you add tend to favo=
ur certain microbes over others â€" and over time the microbia=
l balance shifts due to depredation of some species and explosive growth of=
 others given the nutrient rich environment.
> > >
> > > SS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com=
] On Behalf Of Tad Hussey
> > > Sent: 17 March 2011 23:20
> > > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Making compost tea extract
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Keep in mind as well though, that you won't have the same microbial a=
ctivity or concentrations of microbes that you get from an aerated compost =
tea, because you're not adding a food source to the brewer at the beginning=
 of the cycle.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: mikethewormguy <mikethewormguy_at_>
> > > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 1:59:06 PM
> > > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Making compost tea extract
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > if you have a choice than always make the liquid extract fresh.
> > >
> > > Here is a simple&affordable DIY LCE approach I have used for my home =
lawn:
> > >
> > > 1. Extract 1 gallon of high quality vermicompost in 5 gallons of wate=
r for a 24 hour period. I stir, using a long handled spoon, vigorously each=
 hour for the first 4 hours and again each hour 4 hours prior to harvesting=
 the liquid.
> > > 2. Filter out the solids using a 5 gallon paint strainer bag.
> > > 3. Dilute the extract liquid concentrate to 100 gallons with water us=
ing 2-55 gallon rain barrels with spigots.
> > > 4. Add 1 quart of 12% Humic Acid to each rain barrel. Mix well.
> > > 5. Apply the diluted liquid to 1 acre of turf using a hose and a Hond=
a 1hp pump.
> > > 6. Repeat monthly during growing season.
> > >
> > > So with this procedure I use around 1 cubic foot of vermicompost and =
4 gallons of 12% humic acid per season.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that the LCE is a soil microbial inoculant where less us=
ed more often is better than alot used less often.
> > >
> > > So use less compost, apply liquid monthly, and watch your soil improv=
e.
> > >
> > > my 2 cents.....
> > >
> > > Mike Flynn
> > > Green Quest LLC
> > > BioSpecific LLC
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.=
com> , phishphan12_at_ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Extraction is basically taking the microbes off of the compost with=
out adding any additional foods to the brew. This is what gives LCE its she=
lf life. You do use roughly 10x the amount of compost used in tea brewing, =
so it does have its disadvantages too. Buying an extractors isn't cheap eit=
her, but I think in the archives someone uses an old washing machine.
> > > >
> > > > Also, a lot of the bottled "teas" on the market are dormant spores =
or some other brew and other not really "teas". Do some homework.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "waynerz123" <wayner123_at_>
> > > > To: "compost tea" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%=
40yahoogroups.com> >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:59:26 PM
> > > > Subject: [compost_tea] Making compost tea extract
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If I understand it correctly, and I am probably way off, the good m=
icrobes in compost tea lessen the longer it sits. But there are a number of=
 companies that sell compost tea extracts. So how does one take homemade co=
mpost tea and make it dormant or give it a shelf life?
> > > >
> > > > The benefit of this would be to make one large batch and then aerat=
e it when needed/wanted.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




Received on Sat Mar 19 2011 - 23:43:44 EDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Tue Feb 07 2012 - 13:58:07 EST