Re: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewer.

From: Will Buck <willbuck76_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 10:02:40 -0700 (PDT)

Thanks Tim for the reply. I think I understand that you are suggesting I p=
ut
the diffusers not in the risers but horizontal to them? Is this correct? =
If so
can you explain your reasons? And you are suggesting I reduce my pipe diam=
eter
from 2" to 1.25"?

Keeping the tank full is necessary for sure. The volume of water that is m=
oved
via the airlift principal is modest and reducing back pressure is mandatory=
 to
keep flow rates up. But I don't see how any of this would reduce the back=
 
pressure on the air stones!

I am going to play with it today.





________________________________
From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 11:51:29 AM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewer.

   
Will,

I'm a little lost in this discussion as to what your design entails. If you=
 
email me directly through my webpage I'll help you out.

Basically if I'm following, you are correct that the diffuser should be at =
the
bottom of the riser pipe to apply air lift dissolved oxygen principles. The=
 best
way to do this is with a 90 Tee at the base of each airlift and pvc parts
configured so that the one side of the Tee interfaces with the water flowin=
g out
of the cone, the other side of the tee has a pipe extension and the diffuse=
r
inserted horizontally from outside the tank and the upwards side of the Tee=
 is
connected to your riser pipe which is returning water to your tank. Keeping=
 the
tank full within a few inches of the return nozzles is critical. In this st=
yle
the pressure exerted by the water in the tank equalizes (or almost) the bac=
k
pressure exerted on the diffusers and pump, therefore the usual physics abo=
ut
back pressure stopping air flow does not apply but the physics of the air l=
ift
principle increasing your dissolved oxygen capacity of the pump by up to 10=
 fold
does still apply. I think I'm correct, as my US patent for this process has=
 just
been approved.

Salutations,
Tim

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, Will Buck <willbuck76_at_...> wrote:
>
> Thank Bobbie for your input. I have seen most of your videos and I will =
review
>
> the link you have posted. Your work is largely what motivated me to go V=
ortex.
>
> Not so much that I am into biodynamics but I like the elegance of the mac=
hine.

> And who doesn't like staring into the vortex, it is like watching fire.
>
> While I have spent a fair amount of time researching this by reviewing yo=
ur
> videos and reading Tim Wilson's page among others. But I approached this=
 
> knowing that constructing Vortex brewer on a larger scale had its risks b=
ecause
>
> there is not much info relating to DO during the brew cycle. And yes I =
am
> trying to brew AACT.
>
> Back to the design. I can move the stones up and down the up feed tubes =
very
> easily. If I understand you correctly you are suggesting putting the sto=
nes
> near the bottom. I have about 8 feet of upfeed to play with. It also ap=
pears

> that I am getting slow flow and I want a better vortex. So any advise in=
 terms
>
> of increasing flow would be appreciated.
>
> The pump I purchased is called the ecoplus 7 and it produces about 7 CFM=
 
>however
>
> it is very hard to find any performance curve on this pump. I suspect it =
looses
>
> preformance with any back pressure. I think the sweetwater SL 170 or 190=
 
> produce considerably more air at depth but they are expensive. If I go w=
ith
>Tim
>
> Wilson's suggestion of .05 CFM of air per gallon of water I am looking at=
 
> needing at least 12 CFM
>
> thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_...>
> To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:25:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
>
>
> Bobby here. Imagine you cut your upfeed tube in half, while the tank and =
tubes

> are full of water. The water will flow out very aggressively until it
>equalizes.
>
> Stones at the bottom slow the surface exchange. There can be no stagnant =
water

> in this tank. Please watch my brewer, 350 gallons, 10 min run time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjXFh_ICxic&feature=youtube_gdata_play=
er
>
> Mahalo Bobby G
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2011, at 6:41 AM, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Wrong again. Bobby is right on the money. Don’t g=
o to deep with the air
>source
>
> >as all your doing is heating up your pump and reducing the amount of air=
 it
>can
>
> >put out due to backpressure. Convection will oxygenate all the fluid. No=
 real

> >point in going down more than a metre, just let the vortex tubes draw fr=
om
>near
>
> >the bottom.
> >Also be sure to keep your pump above the liquid level so that it doesn=
’t
>fill
>
> >with water when you switch off.
> >SS
> >
> >From:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On=
 
>Behalf
>
> >Of soilfoodweb_at_...
> >Sent: 24 May 2011 16:40
> >To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >
> >Putting the air at the bottom of the tank is critical to get the water a=
t the

> >bottom of the tank to mix and not be stagnant.
> >
> >
> >Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >
> >
> >-----Original message-----
> >From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_...>
> >To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 02:47:03 GMT+00:00
> >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >Will, I would put the stones in the upfeed tubes right where the tank go=
esfrom
>
> >90 deg to your 45 or 60 deg angle. At the bottom the water flows of it o=
wn
> >accord and then you just pick up where that slows down and stones/air li=
ft it

> >from there.
> >I would use the Sweetwater SL170 or the next smaller linear air pump.
> >Bobby
> >
> >
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >On May 23, 2011, at 12:20 PM, "Will Buck" <willbuck76_at_...> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi, I am in the process of building a 240 gallon Vortex brewer.
> >>
> >>My first brew went anaerobic almost immediately. Clearly I have undersi=
zed
>the
>
> >>air supply and while I would appreciate advise on which pump I should
>purchase
>
> >>(I used an Eco7 that allegedly provides7 cfm, it appears that I need to=
 at
>least
>
> >>double that rate), my question is more about the properties of an air l=
ift
>pumps
>
> >>so I can maximize the amount of DO.
> >>
> >>My design is similar to Bobby Grimes. I purchased a cone bottom tank th=
at I
> >>mounted on a stand so the tank is about 4 feet off the ground (ideal fo=
r
>gravity
>
> >>filling the spray rig). The manifold is attached to the base of the sta=
nd and
>
> >>there are three 2 inch pipes that return water over the top of the tank=
 via
>air
>
> >>lift from a 17 inch air stones.
> >>
> >>
> >>My question is at what depth should I put the air stones in the pipes? =
If I
>put
>
> >>the stones near the bottom of the pipe I thought this would be ideal be=
cause
>the
>
> >>air bubbles would be in contact with the water for a longer period of t=
ime as
>
> >>they rose up the pipe thus increasing DO. But of course the deeper the =
air
>stone
>
> >>the lower the performance of the air pump because the resistance pressu=
re is

> >>greater. In other words, is there any rule of thumb regarding the depth=
 of
>the
>
> >>air stone?
> >>
> >>This question becomes very important as I look at purchasing a new pump=
 as
> >>regenerative blowers loose performance very quickly the more pressure t=
hey
>are
>
> >>working under.
> >>
> >>
> >>I would really appreciate any help or ideas, thanks in advance.
>


 

Received on Thu May 26 2011 - 16:09:21 EDT

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