[compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer

From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:00:27 -0000

Jeff has covered most points well. I've inserted a few replies in your text=
 below in upper CASE.

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Burkhard Kiehne" <burkhardkiehne_at_...> =
wrote:
>
> Microbeorganics.com describes the mechanisms in the soil and how the plan=
t could control the switch from the vegetative to the generative stage in o=
rder to produce flowers. In specific I am interested what will happen with =
a pepper plant. Assuming you feed the plant well N enriched to create a goo=
d base.

ARE YOU TALKING ORGANIC MATTER WITH A LARGER N COMPONENT OR SOLUBLE N?


To induce flowers you could increase the P-K content in the soil.

THIS IS ACTUALLY BASED ON OLD SCHOOL CONVENTIONAL HORTICULTURE. IN THE REAL=
M OF ORGANIC GROWING AND EVEN SOME CONVENTIONAL IT IS BEING DISCOVERED THAT=
 THE P REQUIREMENTS FOR FRUIT PRODUCTION IS MUCH, MUCH LOWER THAN PREVIOUSL=
Y THOUGHT. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE WHERE PLANTS ARE COLONIZED/INFECTED BY M=
YCORRHIZAL FUNGI. THERE ARE THOSE WHO HYPOTHESIZE THAT THERE ARE OTHER SORT=
S OF FUNGI IMPERFECTI WHICH ARE ALSO MYCORRHIZAL WITH CERTAIN PLANTS [YET T=
O BE ESTABLISHED]


Tim Wilson states that in an organic system the plant will not take any nut=
rients from the soil unless they are broken down into inorganic molecules, =
but instead live on the byproducts of microbes alone. I am not sure whether=
 this is entirely the case.

IT IS TRUE THAT SOME (MINIMAL) MACRO/MICRO NUTRIENTS ARE MADE AVAILABLE WIT=
HOUT MICROBIAL ACTIVITY VIA ACID TYPE ROOT EXCRETIONS/EXUDATES SIMILAR TO C=
ITRIC ACIDS WHICH 'IONIZE' ORGANIC MOLECULES. IN THE CASE OF NITROGEN, THIS=
 IS KNOWN AS DON OR DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN [AND DOP FOR PHOSPHOROUS] TH=
ERE ARE SOME WHO HYPOTHESIZE THAT MICROBES MAY BE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS =
AS WELL.

In my opinion there will be still a certain percentage of molecules passing=
 the rhyzodermis,which are even larger and more complex than just simple io=
ns.

WHAT IS THIS OPINION BASED ON?


My first question is whether you still can control the growth of the plant =
directly by applying certain macro nutrients, like high N or high P. What w=
ill happen to the microbe-plant symbiosis? Will it be disturbed?

SEE ABOVE CONCERNING CONVENTIONAL HORTICULTURAL TECHNIQUES BUT AGAIN ARE YO=
U TALKING SOLUBLE NUTRIENTS? IF ONE USES MAJOR SOLUBLE NUTRIENTS THEN IT IS=
 LIKELY THAT THE 'MICROBE-PLANT SYMBIOSIS' WILL BE DISTURBED BY BEING BYPAS=
SED. I EQUATE THIS TO A HUMAN BEING FED INTRAVENOUSLY FOR A WHILE AND THE =
DIFFICULTY INVOLVED IN THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM BECOMING ACCUSTOMED TO SOLID FO=
OD AGAIN ONCE INTRAVENOUS FEEDING STOPS.

IF THE MICROBIAL NUTRIENT LOOP IS LEFT UNUSED, THE MICROBIAL POPULATION CAN=
 BE REDUCED, DIE OFF AND/OR BECOME ALTERED AND POSSIBLY PATHOGENIC. SOME HY=
POTHESIZE THAT THE USE OF HIGH P FOR FRUIT STIMULATION IS A MAJOR CONTRIBUT=
OR TO FUNGAL PATHOGENS.

(THIS TOPIC IS ALSO COVERED ON MICROBEORGANICS.COM)

If it turns out that it might be better to leave the soil alone in order no=
t to interrupt the symbiotic activities, I would like to concentrate on the=
 feeding over the leaves. I read encouraging comments to this subject. Ther=
e are even claims that relatively large molecules are able to pass the epid=
ermis and other outer layers.

I'D BE VERY INTERESTED IN READING LEGITIMATE LITERATURE ON THIS SUBJECT IF =
YOU COULD PROVIDE THE CITATIONS. MOST OF WHAT I'VE READ ON THIS SUBJECT SEE=
MS ANECDOTALLY BASED.

In case of the pepper plant most tissue of it is above the soil and therefo=
re exposed for treatments. My second question is whether it is not a good i=
dea to spray with vermi tea as a base and enhance it with high P-K solution=
. Does anybody have a good recipe for a fermented P-K solution? How about b=
onemeal, potash and finely ground horns and hooves fermented and added to t=
he tea?

ONE MUST BE CAUTIOUS WHEN ADDING THINGS TO A FINISHED ACT. THE IDEA WITH MA=
KING ACT IS TO END UP WITH A GROUP OF NUTRIENT CYCLING MICROORGANISMS IN A =
LIQUID WITH A DISSOLVED OXYGEN RATE ABOVE 6 PPM. ONCE, ONE STARTS ADDING TH=
INGS TO THIS, THE OXYGEN LEVEL CAN RAPIDLY DROP CAUSING YOUR LIVING MICROBE=
S TO DIE OR ENTER DORMANCY.

TIM



Received on Sat Jan 14 2012 - 13:10:39 EST

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