Re: [compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer
James,
I see a lot of claims by vortex brewers that are unsupported by any real da=
ta. I don't see how changing the direction would have any significant effec=
t on the microbial activity in your tea, with all other variables staying t=
he same. Unless you want to start talking about the raising the potency of =
the water or somehow changing its form through the "power" of the vortex. I=
have yet to see any real data to support this, but there are people out th=
ere that believe strongly in these concepts.
In regards to ACT, the real variables are whether a brewer is able to raise=
dissolved oxygen levels and also extract the organisms off the soil partic=
ulates and into the liquid medium.
There are many designs that do this. Air lifts are the most efficient, but =
a vortex brewer does accomplish this, though not as effectively as some oth=
er designs.
The main reasons for a vortex brewer would be if you subscribe to all the b=
eliefs associated with biodynamics or the fact that they just look better f=
rom an aesthetic perspective than most traditional systems (air pump and di=
ffusers).
My 2 cents,
Tad
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 14, 2012, at 6:54 PM, jim devno <grannysgt_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> hello everybody;
> does anyone have information on using a vortex tea brewer brewing counter=
colckwise or female does that increase the tea receipe with all ingedients=
being the same, compost, vermicompost, unsulfurat mollassias and kelp, doe=
s that increase biological, fungi, and protozotas
> I will sit back and listen to your comments. thanks
>
> JAMES DEVNO
> From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 12:00 PM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer
>
>
> Jeff has covered most points well. I've inserted a few replies in your te=
xt below in upper CASE.
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Burkhard Kiehne" <burkhardkiehne_at_...=
> wrote:
> >
> > Microbeorganics.com describes the mechanisms in the soil and how the pl=
ant could control the switch from the vegetative to the generative stage in=
order to produce flowers. In specific I am interested what will happen wit=
h a pepper plant. Assuming you feed the plant well N enriched to create a g=
ood base.
>
> ARE YOU TALKING ORGANIC MATTER WITH A LARGER N COMPONENT OR SOLUBLE N?
>
> To induce flowers you could increase the P-K content in the soil.
>
> THIS IS ACTUALLY BASED ON OLD SCHOOL CONVENTIONAL HORTICULTURE. IN THE RE=
ALM OF ORGANIC GROWING AND EVEN SOME CONVENTIONAL IT IS BEING DISCOVERED TH=
AT THE P REQUIREMENTS FOR FRUIT PRODUCTION IS MUCH, MUCH LOWER THAN PREVIOU=
SLY THOUGHT. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE WHERE PLANTS ARE COLONIZED/INFECTED BY=
MYCORRHIZAL FUNGI. THERE ARE THOSE WHO HYPOTHESIZE THAT THERE ARE OTHER SO=
RTS OF FUNGI IMPERFECTI WHICH ARE ALSO MYCORRHIZAL WITH CERTAIN PLANTS [YET=
TO BE ESTABLISHED]
>
> Tim Wilson states that in an organic system the plant will not take any n=
utrients from the soil unless they are broken down into inorganic molecules=
, but instead live on the byproducts of microbes alone. I am not sure wheth=
er this is entirely the case.
>
> IT IS TRUE THAT SOME (MINIMAL) MACRO/MICRO NUTRIENTS ARE MADE AVAILABLE W=
ITHOUT MICROBIAL ACTIVITY VIA ACID TYPE ROOT EXCRETIONS/EXUDATES SIMILAR TO=
CITRIC ACIDS WHICH 'IONIZE' ORGANIC MOLECULES. IN THE CASE OF NITROGEN, TH=
IS IS KNOWN AS DON OR DISSOLVED ORGANIC NITROGEN [AND DOP FOR PHOSPHOROUS] =
THERE ARE SOME WHO HYPOTHESIZE THAT MICROBES MAY BE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCES=
S AS WELL.
>
> In my opinion there will be still a certain percentage of molecules passi=
ng the rhyzodermis,which are even larger and more complex than just simple =
ions.
>
> WHAT IS THIS OPINION BASED ON?
>
> My first question is whether you still can control the growth of the plan=
t directly by applying certain macro nutrients, like high N or high P. What=
will happen to the microbe-plant symbiosis? Will it be disturbed?
>
> SEE ABOVE CONCERNING CONVENTIONAL HORTICULTURAL TECHNIQUES BUT AGAIN ARE =
YOU TALKING SOLUBLE NUTRIENTS? IF ONE USES MAJOR SOLUBLE NUTRIENTS THEN IT =
IS LIKELY THAT THE 'MICROBE-PLANT SYMBIOSIS' WILL BE DISTURBED BY BEING BYP=
ASSED. I EQUATE THIS TO A HUMAN BEING FED INTRAVENOUSLY FOR A WHILE AND THE=
DIFFICULTY INVOLVED IN THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM BECOMING ACCUSTOMED TO SOLID F=
OOD AGAIN ONCE INTRAVENOUS FEEDING STOPS.
>
> IF THE MICROBIAL NUTRIENT LOOP IS LEFT UNUSED, THE MICROBIAL POPULATION C=
AN BE REDUCED, DIE OFF AND/OR BECOME ALTERED AND POSSIBLY PATHOGENIC. SOME =
HYPOTHESIZE THAT THE USE OF HIGH P FOR FRUIT STIMULATION IS A MAJOR CONTRIB=
UTOR TO FUNGAL PATHOGENS.
>
> (THIS TOPIC IS ALSO COVERED ON MICROBEORGANICS.COM)
>
> If it turns out that it might be better to leave the soil alone in order =
not to interrupt the symbiotic activities, I would like to concentrate on t=
he feeding over the leaves. I read encouraging comments to this subject. Th=
ere are even claims that relatively large molecules are able to pass the ep=
idermis and other outer layers.
>
> I'D BE VERY INTERESTED IN READING LEGITIMATE LITERATURE ON THIS SUBJECT I=
F YOU COULD PROVIDE THE CITATIONS. MOST OF WHAT I'VE READ ON THIS SUBJECT S=
EEMS ANECDOTALLY BASED.
>
> In case of the pepper plant most tissue of it is above the soil and there=
fore exposed for treatments. My second question is whether it is not a good=
idea to spray with vermi tea as a base and enhance it with high P-K soluti=
on. Does anybody have a good recipe for a fermented P-K solution? How about=
bonemeal, potash and finely ground horns and hooves fermented and added to=
the tea?
>
> ONE MUST BE CAUTIOUS WHEN ADDING THINGS TO A FINISHED ACT. THE IDEA WITH =
MAKING ACT IS TO END UP WITH A GROUP OF NUTRIENT CYCLING MICROORGANISMS IN =
A LIQUID WITH A DISSOLVED OXYGEN RATE ABOVE 6 PPM. ONCE, ONE STARTS ADDING =
THINGS TO THIS, THE OXYGEN LEVEL CAN RAPIDLY DROP CAUSING YOUR LIVING MICRO=
BES TO DIE OR ENTER DORMANCY.
>
> TIM
>
>
>
>
Received on Sat Jan 14 2012 - 22:56:26 EST
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: Tue Feb 07 2012 - 13:58:15 EST