RE: [compost_tea] Re: plant nutrients applied via the leaf
Tim;
Don't worry. I don't find your tone flippant or offensive at all. It's nice
to have literature from peer reviewed publications available because then
one can be more certain that the procedures used are reviewed and approved.
Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge or interest to pour over the
academic literature, however have attended a number of courses by the
learned few.
I tried for a number of years to get my wheat plants nutrient levels up to
the levels regarded as ideal (Plant Analysis: An Interpretation Manual
edited by Reuter and Robinson CSIRO Publishing Australia various editions
updated every few years) by having tissue analyses done of the plants at
various growth stages and eventually seed analysis which I did for a few
years. I was applying lots of nutrients, mainly in the sulphate form. I was
chasing my tail. Eventually I discovered, by liming my soils, the plant
could get adequate supplies from the soils if Ca was at the Albrecht level.
Nevertheless, the sulphate form (for example CuSO4, etc.) proved the most
economical.
I have seen studies by Cakmak (I think he is a Palestinian) who has many
articles in the peer reviewed literature, where the sulphate forms of
nutrients were compared to EDTA, and other additives as well as chelated
nutrients. Chelation is probably the most effective system, but the sulphate
form, while taking longer to penetrate the leaf, is the most economical. A
few hours versus a few minutes.
I hope you find some of this useful, but don't want to bore everyone else
who wants stuff on compost tea.
One thing about liming soil. When using Calcitic or Dolomitic lime, even if
it is finely ground, it takes a long time to become available in the soil.
SS
From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim Wilson
Sent: 19 January 2012 19:39
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer
Hi Stephen;
Yes it was pretty late and we got a huge snow dump, unusual for the Pacific
Northwest. I am snowed in.
In the rhizosphere, as you probably know organic molecules are microbially
or otherwise transformed into ionic form so as to be uptaken by roots to be
internalized by the plant. I do not know that such a system exists on the
leaf surface. (I am not even clear on if this happens in ionic form. This
can be completely due to my ignorance on the subject)
I'd be interested in reading any studies related to the intake of nutrients,
or other substances via the leaf surface. I am not being flipant at all.
Please list or link some citations for me, (preferably not just some
person's hypothesis based on plant vigor).
Tim
--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
> Tim;
>
> Not organic nutrients, chemistry. Organic chemistry? What are organic
> nutrient molecules? Would you call Fulvic acid an organic nutrient
molecule?
> There can be compelling arguments for and against.
>
> Anyways Tim. Shouldn't you be in bed now. Its 9 am here and must be around
> midnight where you are. Yesterday the temperature closeby here was 52C
which
> is probably about 125F. Most of Canada seems to be cold now.
>
>
>
> From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On
> Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> Sent: 19 January 2012 08:44
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer
>
>
>
>
>
> Organic nutrient molecules? Please provide citations
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> >
> > Tim;
> >
> > There is a mountain of literature on foliar feeding. It is the most
direct
> > route to a plant, but only accessible if the chemistry can get through
the
> > epidermal cells. The literature on chemistry that can get chemicals
> through
> > the outer layers is also extensive. All the herbicides, insecticides,
> > fungicides, (at least those that translocate) have to be able to get
into
> > the plant.
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On
> > Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> > Sent: 18 January 2012 19:31
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vermi tea as foliar fertilizer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Burkhard;
> >
> > When I mentioned soluble nutrients I was actually referring to chemical
> > fertilizers which are already in ionic form. I was not recommending them
> but
> > asking what you intended to foliar feed with. There is very little in
> > soluble form in organics. As stated, I am dubious about the efficacy of
> > foliar feeding.
> >
> > There was a powerpoint posted by another member but because it was a
sales
> > pitch it is hardly credible.
> >
> > If indeed, foliar feeding is an efficient way of providing nutrients,
I'm
> > very interested in reading solid data on the subject. There are
attibutes
> to
> > spraying certain substances onto plant leaves, including compost tea.
Jeff
> > has already covered this.
> >
> > I used to spray (back in my chemical days) my plants with chemical
> > 20-20-20 and thought I was feeding them because they all perked up and
> > looked 'happy' afterwards. Later I learned that they were just
responding
> > (most likely) to the moisture.
> >
> > I suggest that you feed your soil as Jeff has recommended. You can use
> fish
> > hydrolysate, compost tea, humic acid, etc. in liquid form and you can
> > topdress [vermi]compost (and vermicompost slurries), kelpmeal, alfalfa
> meal,
> > etc.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > Burkhard Kiehne <burkhardkiehne_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for all your input, especially the one from Tim. It always
> lets
> > me see things clearer. To summerize my point again I assume it is a good
> > idea to prepare the soil with plenty of compost, plant my peppers,
> tomatoes
> > etc and leave the soil alone except for weekly sprays with vermi tea.
That
> > leaves me with applying fertilizer over the leaves. There is no vertical
> > transport involved, so the result should be visible fast. The question
is
> > what will I use for fertilizer? It has to be organic, of course and it
> > should be soluble as well. Does anybody have experience with that,
> > preferable PK loaded. How about seaweeds? Will the higher PK content
> damage
> > the microbes?
> > >
> >
>
Received on Fri Jan 20 2012 - 10:25:04 EST
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