Re: compost and compost tea for organic growers

From: Frank Teuton <fteuton_at_SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:37:27 -0500

MessageHi Sal,

Organic growers, and would be growers, and the organic movement, have a =
number of choices in front of them.

One would be to decertify any farm where any amount of any neochemical =
of any kind were found, for example. Result: no more organic farms, we =
are all carrying at least some amount of neochemicals, it is in the wind =
and rain, man...

The other choice would be to allow anything. That would make all farms =
organic, and render the word meaningless again.

The middle path, which is also available in varying degrees, is to =
exclude neochemical contamination as much as is reasonably feasible, and =
try to expand a pragmatic organic sector to allow more and more farmers =
to stop using chemicals and 'go organic'. That may not be pure as the =
driven snow (which is not as pure as it used to be) but it would be the =
way to go for the sake of the planet, microbial diversity, carbon =
sequestration and all the rest, eh?

Let's say we have a compost with 3 ppm of chlordane in it. (That's in =
the spectrum for what was found in thermophilic New Jersey composts, =
btw.) Now we send that compost off to someone like Phil Fredericks, who =
recomposts it to get rid of the chlordane. Now Phil's compost can be =
used on the yards where the chlordane still is in New Jersey, and help =
get rid of it. Perhaps if we made a compost tea out of this compost, =
aiming for fungal growth, we might be able to accomplish this kind of =
bioremediation with compost tea as well.

That's an example of a contaminated feedstock being properly composted =
and yielding a decontaminated, and decontaminating, compost.

OTOH, as far as I know nobody knows what to do to bioremediate =
clopyralid, that herbicide that is able to affect plant growth at levels =
as low as 1 ppb. Compost containing clopyralid should not be accepted =
for organic growing, and so far it has resisted being remediated.

GMOs offer similar complexity. Some GMO materials break down readily and =
do not appear in the finished compost, others do not, and are still =
present at the time the compost is supposed to be mature.

The rule forbids contamination, but what sort of enforcement and testing =
is required?

If we define organic too narrowly, transition will never occur. If too =
broadly, it becomes meaningless.

People who have a marked need for organic foods with as little a load of =
xenobiotic materials as possible will generally look for local growers =
whose land has never been sprayed. Compare that to someone working a =
piece of land carrying a substantial load of recalcitrant chemicals =
(chlordane, DDT, etc) that has just finished transition of three years. =
A chemically sensitive person may be able to tell the difference between =
crops from these two kinds of farms.

Sal, I have read Our Stolen Future and I know the dose is not always the =
poison. I know we have to be properly diligent about keeping chemicals =
out of our food, our soil, and ourselves.

I also know that we can't hold up the transition process for every and =
any molecule that could be present, any more than we can ask for =
detailed information on each and every microbe in a ton of compost.

So, what standards are you proposing? What levels of which chemicals =
would be low enough, in the finished compost, to be acceptable?

Don't set them at zero, though, because no one on the planet can meet =
that.

I sympathize with you for not being able to use material with one tenth =
of one per cent biocide, but that is 1000 ppm, right? Think finished =
compost is likely to have 1000 ppm of any biocide in it? If it did, it =
wouldn't be OMRI acceptable, I would think.

I agree that it is exasperating sometimes trying to be organic in a =
polluted world. And I agree we have to keep watching and demanding to =
know what the rules are, what the standards are.

But we can't be organic puritans. Not on this planet, not in this =
century, anyway.

Frank Teuton


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: sals
  To: SANET-MG_at_LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:23 AM
  Subject: [SANET-MG] compost and compost tea for organic growers


  The OMIRI Annotation is what had me worried. talking about what =
organic growers can use for compost and manure . it said "Acceptable =
feedstock's include animal manure by-products of the processing of =
agricultural commodities ad source separated yard debris or clean green =
. this is what worries. I don't see how organic growers can use this =
stuff and still call themselves organic. no only do you have to worry =
about ecoili ,mad cow,hoof and mouth and who know what else but also =
growth hormones, rat poison,fly bait , insecticides,pesticides, =
herbicides GMOs and everything else organic growers are not supposed to =
use . how can the USDA say by-products from non organic animal manure =
and by products and yard debris can be used on organic farms. are =
organic farms the trash yard for the USDA . does the USDA care about =
all the non organic stuff that comes in with this . how can the farmer =
know or anyone for that matter what the inert ingredients are in this =
stuff? I think the USDA is not doing a very good job of keeping organic =
organic if this shit is acceptable. Help can someone explain this to =
me. That's why I don't feel making a tea out of this and spraying this =
on the food is organic. I mean CCOF told me I could not use a product =
on time that had 1 tenth of one percent of biocide in it and now they =
say this shit is acceptable. its all big business now and its not about =
keeping organic organic. the USDA is the fox watching the hen house. =
also the USDA organic program is killing off small growers. I don't =
know how long I can afford to be a organic farmer . my inspection fees =
have tripled and now I hear CCOF says new fee structure and small =
farmers that are all organic will pay 200 and increase from 110. so the =
prices keep going up and up and we small growers can do nothing about =
it. they are bleeding the turnips and sucking us dry. more and more =
fees going up and up. the small grower does not have a chance in Calf. =
when they told us about this law they said your certification should not =
go up much but my inspection went up 300 percent and my certifier wants =
to double that cost. there is no cheep way for the small grower making =
over 5000 to stay organic. big government is putting the small grower =
out of business. . What a rip off. CCOF says they help small farmers =
and get all these donations and at the same time they are voting to =
raise prices and put small growers out of business. they want the big =
growers that pay the big bucks not the small grower anymore. it is the =
old get big or get out that is what the USDA has been doing to small =
growers for years. they seen the small growers making it in the organic =
business and they are setting up to get rid of the small growers. =
Organic grower get big or get out. They framed their evil and call it =
law and take our farms away from us and kill off our way of life. . it =
is government killing off the small organic farmer and using organic =
farms as a way to get rid of contaminated waste as the same time. how =
can u get safe organic out of their contaminated waste. trash in trash =
out.


  check out an organic growers homepage
  http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html




.

Received on Sat Nov 23 2002 - 11:02:42 EST

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