Re: [compost_tea] Re Molassas and fungi...?

From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:56:13 EST

The first statement in the explanation that Jeff asked about is incorrect as
a general statement. You need to look at nitrogen availability at the same
time as you are looking at energy availability, as expressed by the kind of
carbon bond.

I usually don't delve into this kind of explanation, because it gets hard to
follow the aspects that have to be understood to explain what the original
quote is talking about. It's a particular application of not-just simple
sugar.

Simple sugars favor BACTERIA, as long as there are other sources of nitrogen
(N) and other micro-nutrients available.

What is the C:N (carbon to nitrogen) ratio of a simple sugar? Infinity
carbon. There is no nitrogen in glucose, or dextrose, or other very simple
sugars. If there is no nitrgen available, addition of pure simple sugar will
shut down EVERYTHING. That's why you add so much sugar to jam or jelly.
There is no available N, P, K, etc in jam, so nothing will grow in it.
Effective preservative. We use this scientific principle all the time in
making food and preserving it.

If you add a simple sugar with kelp and with compost which contains proteins
and other high N containing organic matter, then there is plenty of N, P, K,
etc for the bacteria to grab and grow rapidly. That's why when you put jam
on your toast, all that sugar is no longer an effective preservative. The
toast has enough N, P, K, etc to allow all kinds of bacteria and fungi to
grow using that great energy source called jam. The sugar is the energy
source, but you have to have other nutrients in order to allow a living
organism to use that energy.

Some people have made the statement that molasses is straight sugar, however.
 That is not correct either. Molasses is mostly simple sugars and some
complex sugars, with a snidge of humic acid, all extracted from the plant.

Some of the sugar in molasses is denatured during the heating and extraction
processes used to get the sugar from the plant material and denatured
material condenses, becoming more complex forms of sugars, causing the change
in color. More complex sugars helps fungi more than bacteria.

Black-strap molasses has more condensed forms of sugar which means these
forms are more complex, and which favor fungi more than bacteria. But, there
is still more simple sugar for bacteria than complex sugar for fungi in
molasses. But blackstrap molasses then contains SOME N, P, K, etc.

How about "dried" molasses? ONLY simple sugars. The more complex sugars do
not dry down very easily, and thus are left behind as sludge, typically
removed in the "begasse" or in the grey fluffy stuff called mill mud. Great
stuff, mill mud, as long as it does not go anaerobic.
------

The second statmement made in the quote that Jeff sent is not correct either.
 FUNGI finish the process of making humus, not bacteria. BACTERIA START the
process of decomposition by using the easy-to-use sugars, the simple, rapid
growth food resources.

Fungi come along and start making the complex "waste products", which are
what we call humus, or more specifially, humic acid. Highly condensed (and I
mean way beyond the simple humic materials in molasses), very recalcitrant,
fungal-food only humic acid.

What's the difference between humus and humic acid? Ah! Important
distinction! Humus includes the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, roots,
simple organic matter (simple sugars, amino acids, proteins, simple
carbohydrates, lipids and a few thousand more kinds of simple compounds) and
ever-more complex organic matter such as polysaccharides (which means
multiple single, simple sugars bound together in ever-inceasingly complex,
branched forms), amino-sugars, hormones, fats, lipopolysaccharides, fulvic
acids (all of the above branched and bound together in intermediate molecular
weight fractions), and humic acids (all of the above bound together in very
complex tertiary or three-dimensional binding complexes).

So, humic acid is a part of humus. But it is the fungi that really do the
humic acid production job. They are helped out by earthworms, and
microarthropods too. Let's not forget that they are very involved in helping
fungi maintain dominance over bacterial processes in the "real world" of soil
structure. Real humic acid requires ALL of these organisms to be present.

Why would someone, as from the quote below, say that addition of molasses to
wood waste improve fungal growth? Because wood waste has a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of, depending on which woods were actually used, somewhere in
the region of 200 to 600. Rapid breakdown requires a bit more nitrogen than
is present in most wood.

Addition of pure sugar to a wood pile adds how much nitrogen? Flat nothing.
sugar is nearly 100% carbon - and a little oxygen and hydrogen. No nitrogen.
 

So, adding simple sugars to a wood pile doesn't help. Addition of molasses
adds some nitrogen, but


> "Molasses favors fungi over bacteria to speed up process
> Fungi produce enzymes that can break down lignin and cellulose. Bacteria
> then take over and finish the job forming humus. What takes so long is that
> most composting is not done with fungus initially. The key is to favor
> fungi
> right from the very start, as fungi can break down ligno-cellulosic waste
> without high temperatures. It has been demonstrated that the addition of
> molasses to the pile will favor fungi over bacteria and can speed up the
> whole process dramatically. 500 ml per 4 kg (2 pints per 10 pounds dry
> waste) waste works good and probably adds trace minerals. Molasses is cheap
> in many areas and may be available from feed stores or sugar factories.
> Either cane or beet can be used"
>
> This seems contra to what we do with teas visa vis fungi. Any ideas or is
> the author of the bit simply "wrong>" Seems it is time to do a test in
> compost. Incidently, the use of soy bean meal seems more effective than
> malt at growing fungis in compost......all that stuff with BRAGGS which is
> just liquid soy for the most part....why didn't we think of soy bean meal
> earlier?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff L
>


President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com



.

Received on Sat Nov 30 2002 - 19:41:34 EST

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