Re: [compost_tea] Re Molassas and fungi again
Hum, something seems to have messed up on the transfer of the SECOND PART of
my previous e-mail, let me try again.....
The second statement made in the quote that Jeff sent is not correct either.
FUNGI finish the process of making humus, not bacteria. BACTERIA START the
process of decomposition by using the easy-to-use sugars, the simple, rapid
growth food resources.
Fungi come along and start making the complex "waste products", which are
what we call humus, or more specifically, humic acid. Highly condensed (and
I mean way beyond the simple humic materials in molasses), very recalcitrant,
fungal-food only humic acid.
What's the difference between humus and humic acid? Ah! Important
distinction! Humus includes the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, roots,
simple organic matter (simple sugars, amino acids, proteins, simple
carbohydrates, lipids and a few thousand more kinds of simple compounds) and
ever-more complex organic matter such as polysaccharides (which means
multiple single, simple sugars bound together in ever-inceasingly complex,
branched forms), amino-sugars, hormones, fats, lipopolysaccharides, fulvic
acids (all of the above branched and bound together in intermediate molecular
weight fractions), and humic acids (all of the above bound together in very
complex tertiary or three-dimensional binding complexes).
So, humic acid is a part of humus. But it is the fungi that really do the
humic acid production job. They are helped out by earthworms, and
microarthropods too. Let's not forget that they are very involved in helping
fungi maintain dominance over bacterial processes in the "real world" of soil
structure. Real humic acid requires ALL of these organisms to be present.
Why would someone, as from the quote below, say that addition of molasses to
wood waste improve fungal growth? Because wood waste has a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of, depending on which woods were actually used, somewhere in
the region of 200 to 600. Rapid breakdown requires a bit more nitrogen than
is present in most wood.
Addition of pure sugar to a wood pile adds how much nitrogen? Flat nothing.
sugar is nearly 100% carbon - and a little oxygen and hydrogen. No nitrogen.
So, adding simple sugars to a wood pile doesn't help. Addition of molasses
adds some nitrogen, but not enough to get the bacteria going much, but enough
N to help certain species of fungi out.
So, under this particular application, molasses, NOT SIMPLE SUGARS, can help
fungi.
But remember, you have to pay attention to the WHOLE system, and apply the
principles correctly.
Think things through......
------
Malt contains a fair number of simple sugars, which gets bacteria growing
rapidly, takes down the oxygen, which MAY lead to lack of oxygen, which may
lead to anaerobic bacteria (including E. coli and other undesirables)
growing. Some anaerobic bacteria appear to take out the beneficial fungi as
well.
What if you didn't have those fungi-attacking anaerobic bacteria, which is
what Steve Diver suggests in his post? Interesting if the bacteria in EM
suppress the anaerobic bacteria that take out the fungi. NEED DATA!!!!
Anyway, back to the soybean....
Soybean meal has fewer simple sugars than the malt, so the bacteria don't get
going as fast, which means less danger of getting bacteria growing, less
danger of anaerobic conditions.
CERTAIN fish preparations appear to do the same thing with respect to
suppressing bacterial growth, and thus anaerobic conditions. Could it be
that certain fish have more oil that suppress the E. coli? Sure! But under
all conditions? NEED DATA!!!!!!
Seems like that's all I say these days.... NEED DATA!!!! Scientists, we are
blessed one-track.
> "Molasses favors fungi over bacteria to speed up process
> Fungi produce enzymes that can break down lignin and cellulose. Bacteria
> then take over and finish the job forming humus. What takes so long is that
> most composting is not done with fungus initially. The key is to favor
> fungi
> right from the very start, as fungi can break down ligno-cellulosic waste
> without high temperatures. It has been demonstrated that the addition of
> molasses to the pile will favor fungi over bacteria and can speed up the
> whole process dramatically. 500 ml per 4 kg (2 pints per 10 pounds dry
> waste) waste works good and probably adds trace minerals. Molasses is cheap
> in many areas and may be available from feed stores or sugar factories.
> Either cane or beet can be used"
>
> This seems contra to what we do with teas visa vis fungi. Any ideas or is
> the author of the bit simply "wrong>" Seems it is time to do a test in
> compost. Incidently, the use of soy bean meal seems more effective than
> malt at growing fungis in compost......all that stuff with BRAGGS which is
> just liquid soy for the most part....why didn't we think of soy bean meal
> earlier?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff L
>
Happy Holidays!
Elaine
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com
.
Received on Sat Nov 30 2002 - 19:41:35 EST
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