RES: [compost_tea] Any Comments or reply to this?

From: Jose Luiz M Garcia <gingerjo_at_terra.com.br>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:35:11 -0200

I would like to see Dr Ingham comments on compost being a perfect
host ( terrain ) for E. coli.
I particularly don´t think it is due to the tremendous diversity that
you
find in the compost.
 
 
Jose
 
 
I was at the Compost Tea presentation at Eco-Farm and wanted to correct
the assertion made in this post.
 
At the Eco-Farm meeting, in California, it was reported to me by at
least three people, that the person speaking in the Compost Tea session
from BBC Lab (Bess' lab in Arizona) said that E. coli will be present in
compost no matter what.
 
The presenter did not say it would be present no matter what, but that
it is almost impossible to garauntee that any compost pile would be E.
Coli free give the risk of re-contamination. That is, even if a compost
pile is made perfectly (right temperature, adequate turning) there is
always a risk that E. Coli will be reintroduced from another source such
as coming in contact with equipment that has been recently been in
contact with a new pile. One re-innoculated, the compost pile is a
perfect host.
 
Again, she did not say this happened every time but that it could happen
and that there was a real risk of E. Coli in any compost pile and that
what we needed was on site testing.
 
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com [mailto:soilfoodweb_at_aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:08 PM
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Any Comments or reply to this?
Thank you, Matt, for a much more sane reporting on what went on at the
Viticulture meeting.

When I read the post from the BD Now person, I wondered if the people I
knew that had gone to the meeting and had talked to me had gone to the
same meeting as that person was talking about.

The bottom line, in my opnion, is that Vicki Bess overstresses E. coli
danger. At the Eco-Farm meeting, in California, it was reported to me
by at least three people, that the person speaking in the Compost Tea
session from BBC Lab (Bess' lab in Arizona) said that E. coli will be
present in compost no matter what. If you add molasses to compost tea,
E. coli will grow to high number.

Now we all read on SANET a few weeks ago, in a nicely documented study,
that if compost is properly composted, it will have no E. coli. So,
clearly, by making compost correctly, getting it to temperature and
keeping it aerobic, there will be no E. coli surviving.

If you don't have E. coli in the compost, it won't be in the tea. No
matter how much molasses you add, if there is no E. coli in the compost,
it won't grow in the tea.

We have data, and we keep repeating the experiment in different tea
brewers to show which ones make good tea, given the same compost, same
recipe, same water etc. In all the tea makers, no E. coli in the
compost, no E. coli in the tea, no matter how much molasses you add -
even up to 5% molasses.
------------
The point about addition of food resources to tea is a very good one.
If you add too much food, the organisms get too happy, grow really fast,
and make the tea go anaerobic.

Why do you add foods to tea? So you can have a finished product in 24
hours, or maybe less. Typical American impatience - we have to have our
stuff right now. Wil Brinton is correct, if you brew for longer, and
don't put additional foods in the tea, the tea usually doesn't go
anaerobic. Good deal, huh?
---------------
But there is one point about which no one is right about so far.
Compost tea was "invented" by the Romans. At least as far as we can
tell. Cato, in his book "De Agriculturia" was the first WRITTEN book on
agricultural processes. What does he describe in that book? Basically,
the production of compost tea. So, the inventor of compost tea was some
peasant farmer in ancient Rome. Everything from then has merely refined
the process.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com

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Received on Sat Feb 01 2003 - 21:54:10 EST

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