Hi everybody,
I will have to thank Dr Elaine once more for going deep into that matter
for the benefit of all in this list.
>From an agronomist stand point it doesn't make sense as well to
mix all those three in order to " make a hostile environment for worms
( in general )". You can make a hospitable environment for the plants
with all the drawbacks, specially for excess sugars, as explained by
Dr Elaine if you add those three.
Also, as explained, lignite will have to be "pre-digested" by either
fungi,
bacteria and/or organic acids secreted by plant roots so it can be
utilized
by the plants.
As, for the sugar, inspired by Dr Arden Andersen, I have convinced my
son
who is in Ag College to do some pot tests. The results clearly shows
that
if you are using chemical fertilizers, sugar improves the utilization of
those
nutrients. We have tried several N and P doses with varied sugar doses
and
the utilization of either N and P was improved by sugar addition as seen
by increase in root and whole plant dry weight.
Would sugar activate bacteria in the soil, thereby increasing nutrient
cycling and
and retention and consequently reducing nutrient looses ?
Has Dr Elaine seen any data on the utilization of sugar + Chemical or
Organic fertilizers
as a way to improve fertilizer utilization ?
Regards
Jose
Why would wet sugar make a hostile environment for any insect?
Consider what we know about sugar, kelp and lignite added to soil. Is
this a sufficient set of conditions to have teh desired result?
No. These additions will not work under certain conditions. When will
addition of these things be sufficient to have the desired effect? You
need to understand something more than just adding sugar, kelp and
lignite.
Do you have to add all three? And how much? You need to understand WHY
they MAY have an effect. What are the conditions that allow for
success, what conditions mean no benefit should be expected?
Simple sugars are bacterial foods. As bacteria grow using the excess
simple carbon that was added, they suck up all the other nutrients, like
N, P, S, etc. You get an area where anything else needing these
nutrients is SOL. Bacteria win in competition with anything else when
they have enough simple sugar. Of course, you have to have decent
bacteria, so an inoculum is a good idea (as in good aerobic compost),
especially in chemically treated soils.
Add enough sugar, you'll kill your plants simply because there are no
nutrients left for them to grow. What is the right amount of sugar?
Kelp is added to provide nutrients, but what's the right balance?
The nutrients in kelp supply which set of organisms with nutrients? The
bacteria and fungi. Plants can't access the nutrients in kelp
material. How do you get the nutrients in kelp into a plant available
form? You have to have the protozoa, nematodes and microarthropods
present to allow that to happen. What's the right balance of bacteria
and fungi, and protozoa, nematodes and arths?
Where can you find out this information? Soil Foodweb. The Soil
Ecology Society. Applied Soil Ecology. Biology and Fertility of Soils.
Univ of Georgia's Soil Ecology program.
But think about this - if you add enough sugar, the soil in these areas
will go anaerobic as the bacteria grow and use up the oxygen.
If you have wire worm, cut worm or other obnoxious pests, you might be
able to drive them away, since these pests need some oxygen. But then
the soil is anaerobic. Bad news for seed germination and root growth.
Will the soil stay anaerobic? Depends on the health of your soil. If
you have good soil strucutre, then life will be ok, as the oxygen
returns, the normal set of organisms will revive and life goes on only a
little hammered.
But what if you don't have good soil structure? Then your seed is in
trouble. You might even say, "See, the cut worms and grubs are hurting
the seeds" when in fact the pests have been driven away from the seed by
the anaerobic conditions and aren't responsible for this damage.
What if the soil is anaerobic only in the zone you added the sugars?
Then the pests just go a little ways and hang out until the root
arrives. And the root may be weakened from the anaerobic conditions.
These pests also like reduced oxygen conditions (how reduced? Probably
in the range of 5 to 6 ppm, but I don't know of any hard data on this -
does anyone?). Why do the pests like the reduced oxygen conditions?
The bacteria that grow in aerobic conditions make the environment
unpleasant for these pests. If you are careful to add only enough sugar
to help the beneficial bacteria, soil structure will be improved as
these bacteria make glues, form microaggregates, and help oxygen diffuse
more rapidly into the soil. The critters that eat the pests move back
into the soil.
Get some fungal and bacterial species that prey on the pests to grow -
but they require aerobic conditions, or at least not-reduced-to less
than 6 ppm oxygen.
What does the kelp do? Micronutrients, some plant growth factors (which
the bacteria and fungi consume quite rapidly, probably long before the
factors make it to the root. If the soil is healthy, the bacteria and
fungi that these things grow are probably the real answer to why kelp
growth factors work well). Kelp also contains all the foods normally in
plant cytoplasm, and so good growth foods for bacteria and fungi.
Probably more bacteria than fungi, but some really great fungi. So, the
nutrients are made plant-available because the biology is functioning.
Lignite is a source of very complex foods for the fungi. Only after
fungal enzymes start chewing on the lignite will any bacterial food be
released. Which fungi and bacteria grow on these materials? There's a
whole area of research that needs to be addressed, and people are
addressing it. SFI is part of that work.
So, again, is too much of these foods are added in, the soil can be
driven anaerobic as the organisms start to grow faster than oxygen can
diffuse into the soil. If the soil has good structure, then this
problem is less likely to occur.
I had to laugh when I read something the other day that said that
molasses or sugar causes root-feeding nematodes to explode. Really?
And what's the mechanism there? Root-feeding nematodes have no
mechanism to take-up sugars from the soil solution. They eat plant
cellular liquid. Sap-suckers, if you will. They like reduced oxygen
conditions. They have thick cuticles that prevent bacteria from having
much affect on them. Could root-feeders get drunk on the alcohol
produced when lots of sugar is added and the bacteria and fungi (yeasts)
grow? Maybe that's the mechanism. But some data on that would be
useful, because then you would need to know that sugar addition only
works on root-feeders when the soil is badly compacted.
Please, make sure you understand that I'm trying to point out lack of
knowledge here - do not go around saying that Elaine said alcohol kills
root-feeders. We don't know that.
I'm saying we need to know the mechanism by which SOMETIMES molasses
addition reduces pests. It does not work in all cases, and until we
understand WHY it works sometimes, we will never be able to predict when
additions will work and when they will not.
It isn't appropriate to claim that sugar kills pests, because there are
many conditions where it doesn't work. When does it work? We need to
understand these things first, or these statements lead people to
believe that organic ag, or sustainable ag, does not work.
So, to understand when this group of soil amendments have an effect on
soil pests, you need to understand the life in your soil.
Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
www.soilfoodweb.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
Scan engine: VirusScan / Atualizado em 05/02/2003 / Versão: 1.3.13
Proteja o seu e-mail Terra:
http://www.emailprotegido.terra.com.br/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
.
Received on Sun Feb 09 2003 - 10:02:02 EST