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RE: [compost_tea] Any Comments or reply to this?



Title: Message
I was at the Compost Tea presentation at Eco-Farm and wanted to correct the assertion made in this post.
 
At the Eco-Farm meeting, in California, it was reported to me by at least three people, that the person speaking in the Compost Tea session from BBC Lab (Bess' lab in Arizona) said that E. coli will be present in compost no matter what.
 
The presenter did not say it would be present no matter what, but that it is almost impossible to garauntee that any compost pile would be E. Coli free give the risk of re-contamination. That is, even if a compost pile is made perfectly (right temperature, adequate turning) there is always a risk that E. Coli will be reintroduced from another source such as coming in contact with equipment that has been recently been in contact with a new pile. One re-innoculated, the compost pile is a perfect host.
 
Again, she did not say this happened every time but that it could happen and that there was a real risk of E. Coli in any compost pile and that what we needed was on site testing.
 
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: soilfoodweb@aol.com [mailto:soilfoodweb@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:08 PM
To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Any Comments or reply to this?

Thank you, Matt, for a much more sane reporting on what went on at the Viticulture meeting. 

When I read the post from the BD Now person, I wondered if the people I knew that had gone to the meeting and had talked to me had gone to the same meeting as that person was talking about. 

The bottom line, in my opnion, is that Vicki Bess overstresses E. coli danger.  At the Eco-Farm meeting, in California, it was reported to me by at least three people, that the person speaking in the Compost Tea session from BBC Lab (Bess' lab in Arizona) said that E. coli will be present in compost no matter what.  If you add molasses to compost tea, E. coli will grow to high number. 

Now we all read on SANET a few weeks ago, in a nicely documented study, that if compost is properly composted, it will have no E. coli.  So, clearly, by making compost correctly, getting it to temperature and keeping it aerobic, there will be no E. coli surviving. 

If you don't have E. coli in the compost, it won't be in the tea.  No matter how much molasses you add, if there is no E. coli in the compost, it won't grow in the tea. 

We have data, and we keep repeating the experiment in different tea brewers to show which ones make good tea, given the same compost, same recipe, same water etc.  In all the tea makers, no E. coli in the compost, no E. coli in the tea, no matter how much molasses you add - even up to 5% molasses.
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The point about addition of food resources to tea is a very good one.  If you add too much food, the organisms get too happy, grow really fast, and make the tea go anaerobic.

Why do you add foods to tea?  So you can have a finished product in 24 hours, or maybe less.  Typical American impatience - we have to have our stuff right now.  Wil Brinton is correct, if you brew for longer, and don't put additional foods in the tea, the tea usually doesn't go anaerobic.  Good deal, huh? 
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But there is one point about which no one is right about so far.  Compost tea was "invented" by the Romans.  At least as far as we can tell.  Cato, in his book "De Agriculturia" was the first WRITTEN book on agricultural processes.  What does he describe in that book?  Basically, the production of compost tea.  So, the inventor of compost tea was some peasant farmer in ancient Rome.  Everything from then has merely refined the process. 

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
www.soilfoodweb.com


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